WEBVTT - Ep. 273: Hunting with Sharks 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.360 bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:31.600 can't predict anything presented by first light. Go farther, stay longer. Okay, 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:37.480 Kimmy Werner, explain where we are. We are in Kailua 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:43.480 kona um in a house after three wonderful consecutive days 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:48.560 of free diving and spear fishing. Now, uh, help help. 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:51.720 I'm assuming that listeners have that some listeners have the 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:55.600 same confusion that I had. Is that break this down? 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.640 If you say you're going to Hawaii and then people 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:03.640 say island. All the islands have cool names except for 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:05.920 the one island, and you're supposed to say the Big Island. 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:09.800 And I was asking you, why does the Big Island 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:12.399 not have like why did the Big Island be the 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:16.840 Big Island? Why is it not a traditional name? And 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:19.480 the Big Island does have about traditional name in the 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:23.640 same way where there's Maui and Oahu and nat the 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:28.119 Big Island is Hawaii Island, and so it's a really 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:30.440 cool name, if not the coolest name. It's just gets 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:34.720 confusing because the state is also called Hawaii, and so 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:39.240 when you say you're going to Hawaii, it just needs 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:43.440 more specification, and so it just goes by its nickname 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:46.839 more commonly, which is the Big Island. Because all islands 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:50.080 have their true Hawaiian name and then they have their 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:54.640 English nickname. Maui is, the Valley Isle, is the garden Isle. 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:58.880 But everyone just calls it by the Hawaiian names, except 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:02.960 Hawaii Island. Um just gets called by its nickname, the 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:05.920 Big Island. You know, what I've found was interesting talking 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:10.720 in the last couple of days is the um the 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:14.840 difference like the mix of one disgusting fish for instance, 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:20.000 the mix of common English okay, like state side English 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:24.320 fish names Hawaiian fish names, but then sometimes you refer 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:29.480 to fish by the Japanese Japanese fish names. Yes, is that? 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.919 How were you brought up with that mix? I feel 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:36.760 like every local person connected to the ocean was brought 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:38.760 up with that mix. And and that's just one of 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:42.560 the cool things about Hawaii is just um, we have 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:46.840 just such a history of immigrants from all over the 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:51.359 world that kind of came together and formed this melting 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:56.280 pot of a culture. And because the Japanese were, you know, 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:59.760 really good at eating fish, and that was already part 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:03.799 of the cuisine. Um, they ended up making a lot 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:07.200 of the food that became popular here, and so a 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.760 lot of the Hawaiian fish, Um, they will have English 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:13.480 names in Hawaiian names, but a lot of people here 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:16.200 do refer to certain ones that are popular in Japanese 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.160 cuisine by the Japanese names. And that's all just because 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:24.919 of the immigrant days, the plantation days, and what real 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:28.240 quick like give the names for octopus? Like what what 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:30.680 is the what's the is there a there's gonna be 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:33.800 a Hawaiian name for octopus? Right? The Hawaiian name is he, 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.560 and you will hear it more often um these days. 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.200 And I feel like that's because there is an actual 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:43.440 intention for a resurgence of just really trying to bring 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:45.960 back the Hawaiian language. So these days people do try 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:49.720 and be intentional if they're saying hey, um. But the 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:53.400 much more common name that almost everyone calls it by 0:03:53.600 --> 0:04:03.880 is taco, which is Japanese tacuaco. It was a stressful situation, Alright. 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:08.200 We're also joined by I don't know, justin you're Kimmy's husband, 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:09.600 I don't know, did you guys, like I don't know 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:15.360 what the whole name situation is a lot of people 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:18.839 will call me Justin. I kept my last name, Kimmy 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:22.240 kept her last name, and our son, Buddy Kimmy gave 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:24.680 him my last name. So it's the Buddy now with Turkowski. 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.359 Oh ye, good deal. Alright, you guys gotta chime in. 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:30.320 We gotta cover off on some things we gotta say 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:35.800 at Cinematowski. At Cinematowski on the Instagram, on the Instagram. 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.120 That's on the Instagram. That's me on Instagram. See some 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:41.760 impressive work. Yes, Okay, Hank. Now, if anything we talked 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:44.920 about catches your interest, chime in and we're gonna get 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:48.080 back to you, guys. Heavy Duty. We got talk first off, 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:54.039 you Honest, not here because he's off in a in 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:57.680 a not less tropical location. He's off filming, uh with 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:01.119 Clay nucom for media or Hunts. Not Meeting Her Hunts. 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:04.360 First episode of this season, hosted by Yanni No No, 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.640 none other than Yanni Um, is out to watch on 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:13.039 YouTube right now, So go check that out. Everybody turned 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:14.920 out real heavy duty for y Honest before and they 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.480 will do so again. So that's our latest series on YouTube, 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:22.240 Meet Her Hunts. Um. Okay, we're gonna talk about wolves. 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:26.000 For a minute, Kimmy, do you understand that wolves wolf management, 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:29.960 wolves very divisive and the Rockies very divisive in the 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:34.120 Upper Great Lakes. Yes, I have a devisive animal here 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:38.119 in Hawaii, like our animal everybody likes to argue about, 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:46.200 not as nothing as controversy as that. I wouldn't say, like, 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:50.919 we definitely have you know, a lot of um animal 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:55.719 lovers who just don't really want people killing animals, and 0:05:55.800 --> 0:06:00.200 there's controversy kind of over that. But I don't think 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.440 we have any one particular well I can think of 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:05.400 access here. You know, there's controversy because it's an invasive 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:08.200 species and it really does detriment to the land, but 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:10.840 a lot of the population really likes to eat them 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:13.359 and hunt them, you know, but nothing like wolves. Wolves 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:16.640 is pretty pretty big, and that's devisive, biflate, that's on 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.120 the same side, we're like, oh cool, Like it's a 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:21.799 problem to the environment, so us eating them and killing 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:26.840 them help save the land a good deal, you know. Yeah, 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:29.760 a couple of interesting wolf bits in the news lately. 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:35.120 The first one is kind of baffling to me. Um, 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:36.640 I wasn't there, and I don't really know about how 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:40.120 light these fellers got off. So a couple of guys 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:47.719 um near Wisdom, Montana, had apparently had a permit two 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:54.640 do kyote work of helicopters, So shooting shooting coyotes for depredation, 0:06:54.839 --> 0:07:00.200 livestock depredation out of helicopters, and they are mean to 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:06.000 what we're seeing here. They mistook a couple of wolves 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:11.320 for a couple of coyotes, shot him, then when and 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:19.160 retreat him, retrieved him on a snow machine. Didn't self report. 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:23.040 I get this tracking with your understanding. Cow didn't self report. 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:25.920 A couple of game wardens go out to pay these 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:31.000 guys a visit, and they have the wolves haven't turned 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:38.800 him in Um. According to what's out so far, they 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:42.760 didn't have landowner permission to hunt on that property. They 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:45.960 did not have wolf hunting permits, they didn't have wolf tanks. 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:52.240 They did not self report yet the fine, what would 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:54.680 you get the fine flaunt up being a whopping fo 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:59.600 bucks per person. No one had. I don't understand one 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:03.400 had four and thirty five. They didn't four one four 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:07.480 thirty five to the other. They didn't even They declined 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:12.280 to say who the helicopter operator was. The warden quarter 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.240 here was saying, had they told us the helicopter operator, 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:17.960 we probably would have talked to them, But the suspects 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:22.200 in this case wanted to leave them out of it. Normally, 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.200 if you poach a gray wolf, there's there's like big 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:27.120 game restitution in Montana, So if you poach an animal Montana, 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:31.200 they'll look at like what the value of the animal was, right, so, 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:33.920 and what restitution does? It makes it be that if 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:37.960 you're poaching trophy class animals, it makes it that you 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:40.720 could let's say you shoot a white tailed dough. You know, 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:42.959 like your your family is hungry whatever, you shoot a 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.720 white tailed doll in the summertime to eat it. Uh, 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.360 the restitution end of that, it's gonna be way way 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:52.960 smaller than you shoot a trophy class white tail. They're 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:54.560 just gonna look at it different because the value to 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:57.880 the states different. They paid no restitution. Normally, restitution on 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:01.319 a gray wolf was a thousand bucks. No forfeiture of 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:06.880 hunting privileges. They got breaks because they were rewarded for 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:13.400 their cooperation. Yet they didn't self report baffling to me. 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:15.560 I mean, I'm not I don't even know what I'm 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:17.120 saying should have happened but I would just if you 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:19.280 told me, if you laid out like someone had a 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:22.040 helicopter permit to shoot Kyles, shot a wolf, didn't tell 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:24.439 anybody got caught later, I would have been like, man, 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:30.600 that is their ass. The baffling part is they've they 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.640 said I believe they said that they didn't know they 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:40.200 were wolves until the deed was already done. Um and 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:42.680 then and and really at that point is where like 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:46.520 the track record of of law breaking begins. So at 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.160 that point they would be like, oh, I'm pretty sure 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:51.559 those are wolves. They go out on their snow machine 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:54.000 and go out and they go, oh, now we're on 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:57.280 the ground proofing the fact that yes, these are wolves. 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:01.520 At that that is the exact point at which they 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:04.320 are supposed to call the game warden. You can't then 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:09.280 retrieve them, take them back because that would really cast 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:12.200 a lot of doubt on the fact that they misidentified 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:17.880 a wolf for a coyos and the wardens were tipped off. Yes, 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:20.240 their plan was the skin and they had no plan 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:22.240 to even report it. But anytime you kill the wolf 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:24.679 you have to report it. Yes, I mean, if you 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:27.320 kill the wolf, legally you're supposed to report it. And 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:32.280 I think this is just like a really weird gray 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.120 area that that's not actually supposed to exist of what 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:38.880 the social tolerance is. And and I know, for my 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:44.560 personal experience of being in that valley, just just walking 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:48.040 around being a new face in town, people are like, hey, 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:52.920 do you you here to shoot wolves? You know? Um? 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:56.040 And I then this is very tongue in cheek information, 0:10:56.160 --> 0:11:01.240 but I know it to be fact. The landowner I 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:06.280 had no idea this was going on, but was fine 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:11.080 with it. My only comment here is only that I 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:17.480 would have said, man, that's gonna be their asses. Yeah, no, 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:20.559 it you know. And and we've had some history in 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:24.240 the state right where it's like, oh, I'm not sure 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:26.240 if the law would have landed that way for me 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:31.080 regarding wolves and the take of wolves. So when I 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:33.280 went to read that article in the Montana Standard, I 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:36.480 had to take a survey. Not what the survey was like, 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:38.520 you have to like answer too, must you have to 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:40.960 answer marketing question? To read the article I wanted to 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:43.960 know of how likely are you to try to lose 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:49.760 weight in the next seven days? I put down not likely, 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:53.400 and then I was I was allowed access to read 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:57.320 the article. Idaho speaking to speaking of wolves Idaho getting 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:02.000 real explain all this cow alright, so on as as 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:05.440 I read on the meat eator dot com on the 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:10.800 gloves off taking the gloves off on wolf management. On 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:16.280 Wednesday the fifth, the Governor of the State Idaho signed 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:25.840 into law Bill twelve eleven, which is legislative action against 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:31.920 wolves um And that's a big thing in the state 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.040 of Idaho because the state of Idaho is supposed to 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:39.880 have an independent fishing game and an independent Fishing Game Commission. 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:44.280 Those commissioners can be and and typically are appointed by 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.920 the governor of the state, but it's still considered independent 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.520 of the general lawmaking of the state of that You 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:54.480 get your appointment from the governor, but that doesn't mean 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:57.920 you owe him your bidding. Correct. Same thing with you know, 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:01.800 Supreme Court, right right, even though presidents get very annoyed 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:06.160 when they're appointees, do not do their bidding exactly exactly 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:08.640 and work very very hard to make sure if they 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.120 have the appoint the ability to make an appointee, they're 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:15.200 they're damn sure gonna make make it happen. Underneath. You know, 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:17.800 I'm not supposed to say this, but you do understand 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:21.839 exactly right, but so like your fishing game Commission is 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:25.880 supposed to be balanced of UM, you know, some folks 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:30.400 that understand the interests of the state. UM. So it's 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:38.640 supposed to be representative of let's say, agriculture, recreation, hunting, 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:44.920 and outfitting for sure, outfitting, yeah, bird walk. You know, 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.880 it's supposed to be like a good mix right of 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:52.600 of what the state interests are. UM. Anyway, so for 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:56.360 the first time in the state of Idaho, we have 0:13:56.559 --> 0:14:02.679 legislative overreach, if you will. UM that says, you know, basically, 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.959 this is how we're going to handle a big game animal, 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:07.880 which is what the wolf is considered to be in 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.800 the state of Idaho, a big game animal. It's also 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:12.560 considered to be a big game animal in the state 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:16.040 of Montana. And the reason for that is this wasn't 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:21.400 an independent decision. In order to get state management of 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:25.680 the wolf and get that animal off the endangered species list, 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:30.120 the state's made an agreement to say we're going to 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.840 manage this animal this way. They came out with UH 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:40.280 management plan that was agreed upon, and then that's how 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:45.400 states got the ability to manage the wolf UH and 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:47.480 hunters got to be able to hunt the wolf and 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.000 trappers gotta be able to trap the wolf. That was 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:52.320 an interesting thing if you look back to that decision 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:55.640 how you're going to manage It was interesting because when 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:59.680 they were first talking about the delistening thing in states 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.040 where need the states needed to come forward to say, Okay, 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.720 if if we're gonna remove federal management of wolves, states 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:09.760 need to have management planning proposals. And I remember Wyoming 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:14.040 was an examsistent that they were going to manage wolves 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:16.360 is a big game animal in a certain core area 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.600 in the northwest corner of the state. But they wanted 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:22.440 to basically take like a coyote style like they want 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.680 to do like like coyote management the rest of the state. 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:27.400 And I remember that was amazing. They stuck to their 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:31.080 guns and got there. But initially I thought, man, you're crazy, 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:33.280 Like why not just do what Montana and Idaho were 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:35.080 doing and just do big game animal get the whole 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:38.600 thing over with. But they toughed it out and got 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.760 through and have like a management plan that's decidedly different 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:44.240 in that state, and and that is core to this bill, right, 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:48.000 the difference between a big game animal and environment. So 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:53.040 a big game animal, wolves, big horn sheep, elk, deer, 0:15:53.880 --> 0:16:01.640 they're managed a certain way. Vermints which would be coyotes, skunks, raccoons, 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:05.840 they're managed a certain way to where. Um, your big 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:09.680 game animals have seasons, they have tags, they have harvest 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:14.440 reports typically uh, and your environments are managed much more 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:19.440 loosely to where they are UH an opportunity animal of 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:22.680 opportunity if you if you will, UM, there's much more 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:25.960 leeway on how an individual chooses to manage that animal 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.480 when they come across it. So typically choose symbolmatic of 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.680 like a low amount of public desire to yes, right, 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:37.880 there's not there's not a big demand on the resources, correct, yeah, um. 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:42.680 And so Idaho has the wolf listed as big game animal, 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:46.280 which means tags are required and there's a harvest report 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:52.800 and involved. What this legislation does is um says, yes, 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:56.120 it's a big game animal, you are going to have 0:16:56.200 --> 0:17:02.760 to purchase a tag. But the means of take, the 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:07.720 legal means of take, will be of that of the coyote. 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:12.040 So it's going to be legal to pursue this animal 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.360 in all the ways that you can legally pursue a coyote. 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:18.639 So it's a much more broader means of take, but 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:20.280 you still have to have the tag, you still have 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:23.439 to commit to your harvest report. YEA. For instance, you 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:27.679 can't run an elt down on a snow machine, but 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.960 you can run and a coyote down on a snow machine. 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:34.560 You can't use thermal vision thermal night vision to hunt 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:39.159 an elk, but you can for a coyote, right, And 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.880 so that's that's how these means of take are are 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:47.439 being broadened. It says here that in Idaho, like in 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:51.960 two thousand twenty, there was only eighty four confirmed wolf 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:56.040 kills on cattle. Yeah, very small percentage when you're thinking 0:17:56.080 --> 0:18:00.840 of in the three year average, it's wolf kills per 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:06.440 year um, which is like very very small, like point 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:12.000 zero zero four. What's interesting is all these means of 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:19.200 take that you uh can use to pursue coyotes, we're 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:26.440 actually legal under depredation circumstances. If you had a depredation 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:31.200 incident regarding wolves and you went through the proper channels, 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:37.560 you could hunt wolves using thermal vision night vision, you 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:42.480 could uh, you know, you could be very aggressive as 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:45.119 if you were not hunting a big game in a 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.040 case on a case by case basis, on a case 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:49.320 by case basis. Same with those guys were just talking 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:54.480 about they were able to they had permits or you know, 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:58.040 according to them I think, and maybe they did, I 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:03.560 don't know, had permits to aerial gun for coyotes. Exactly right, 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:05.640 not just anybody can be like, you know what, let's 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:11.240 run a helicopter this weekend, right, Um. So that that's 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:14.680 another great example. So there's all these things where it's like, well, 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:17.320 how did we get to this point of saying, well, 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:21.520 we have to take legislative action to provide for these things, 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:26.440 many of which are already provided for in the state's 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:30.520 Predator Management Plan, of which wolves have a dual role 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:33.359 of being a big game animal and a predator. Right. 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:40.080 Um chets point of how much livestock depredation there actually 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:45.520 is for how many animals are out there is very 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:52.159 very low. What Um is hard to consider is the 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:57.960 stress factor of livestock on ground where where wolves are 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:02.720 just heavy predator numbers are where you could potentially have 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.840 animals stressed to where they're not putting on the amount 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:07.960 of weight that you would expect them to over a 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.480 typical amount of time on a typical pasture because you 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:16.399 get run ragged because they're getting run ragged. Um. You 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.880 could also have so you could have lighter animals, right 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:24.800 you know, weight means cash in the bank for livestock person. 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:30.760 Or you could even have some instances where you are 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:36.639 not getting the calf recruitment or lamb recruitment um that 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:40.720 you typically would, so you have to um have way 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:43.760 more rams or bowls in with your cows for a 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:47.560 lot longer than you typically do. Um. You know, so 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:51.040 it just it adds up to more expense for these producers. 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:55.200 And a lot of this is being pointed towards wolves. 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:59.440 That that's an interesting counterpoint because when I was looking 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:01.560 at the egg well als looking at different states like 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:06.760 the number of cows actually killed by wolves or sheep 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:11.119 killed by wolves, the numbers are low. Oh then you 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:13.639 go to people you're like, well one those are confirmed 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:16.760 and a lot of guys that turn out livestock to 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:20.119 run um, they don't see it for months on end. 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:24.400 So you you go back and round everything up which 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:27.359 has been out of your site for many months, and 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:30.160 you get numbers to come back. There's there's an enormous 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:32.439 like there's a question mark leaning what they'll happened to him? 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:34.840 You don't go out there and it's like you get 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:37.080 a mortality signal on a tracking collar and go out 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:39.120 there and confirm every one. So those are like confirmed 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:41.800 cases and they have to be confirmed to be compensated. 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:45.320 So if you put three hundred out in two ninety, 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:46.879 come back and you have no idea what the hell 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:49.080 happened to the other ten, you then don't go down 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:52.040 and get your money from the middle. The Wolf Mitigation 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:55.880 program correct you. You have to bring out your BLM 0:21:55.960 --> 0:22:00.480 officer or US Fishing Wildlife person take come check out 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:04.119 that kill site, determine if it actually is a kill site. 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:06.480 And I'll tell you right now, there's a million ways 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:09.800 a sheep likes to die. Growing up in my family, 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:11.199 we saw it all the time, and that's what we 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:12.960 just kind of chock it up to. It was like, boy, 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:16.840 sheep just love to die, right, And then like the idea, 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:19.119 but to go out with that though, the idea of 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:24.920 like stress induced abortion of of fetuses, and then we're 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:28.280 just the refusal to take yeah weight than the weight reduction. 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:31.000 What it does is allows people to point and say, okay, yeah, 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:33.280 I didn't lose that many that I know about. But 0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:35.840 wolves are costing me a lot of money exactly, yep. 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:38.000 And then it kind of leaves a little bit of lingering. 0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:42.040 It's kind of proved me wrong, right right, And and 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:44.960 you know, I think with most cases, like there's there's 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:48.199 a there's some truth there. I'm sure like in in 0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:52.400 certain areas there's some truth. Um, there's there's a meet 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:56.720 in the middle type of situation. Um. What's interesting though, 0:22:56.760 --> 0:23:01.160 and I would certainly point the fact that, Um, what's 0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:03.639 interesting to me is like, why is this being taken 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:06.560 care of legislatively? When you look at the numbers of 0:23:06.560 --> 0:23:10.320 how Idaho Fishing Game has managed as an independent fishing 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:16.200 game has managed wolves. Um. There. So if you look 0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:19.680 at it that when the very first season in Idaho 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:22.280 you were allowed to hunt wolves, I believe you could 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:25.439 have five tags. There was no trapping season, and it 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:30.119 was confined to a very small area. As the wolf 0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:35.720 population grew, there were more hunting tags and then trapping seasons. 0:23:36.880 --> 0:23:42.760 The area of take also expanded. Two. Now currently in 0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:45.960 the state of Idaho you can hunt wolves almost and 0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:49.439 this is before this legislation goes into effect, which I 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:53.280 think is going to be Junior July. Um, you can 0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:58.760 hunt wolves three and sixty five days a year or 0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:02.879 trap wolves almost three sixty five days a year in 0:24:03.040 --> 0:24:06.840 all game management units throughout the entire state. That's already 0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:10.879 the case. That's already the case. You can get fifteen 0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:16.679 hunting tags fifteen trapping tags. You're hunting tags can be 0:24:16.800 --> 0:24:19.919 used for trapping as long as that season is open 0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:24.879 to hunting at the time of take. And and you know, 0:24:25.160 --> 0:24:27.200 to be clear that the trapping side of things is 0:24:27.280 --> 0:24:31.840 just a much more effective means of taking wolves. Um. 0:24:31.880 --> 0:24:37.960 And So you're seeing the state agency respond to the 0:24:38.000 --> 0:24:43.560 growth of wolves um and I think the biggest sticking 0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:47.360 point is, like, what we're seeing is a social tolerance 0:24:47.720 --> 0:24:51.840 that is being been exceeded with a very large, an 0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:55.520 influential group in the state of Idaho. We're saying, whoa, whoa, whoa. 0:24:55.600 --> 0:25:02.240 When the state Wildlife Management Plan four Wolves started, it 0:25:02.320 --> 0:25:06.480 was a hundred and fifty wolves on the landscape. Yeah, 0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:09.240 and it was funny about that number. Is that number 0:25:09.320 --> 0:25:14.639 at that time was unsettling to some people. Yes, yes, 0:25:15.160 --> 0:25:18.800 that's way too many. The estimated wolf population in state 0:25:18.800 --> 0:25:24.639 Idaho now is hundred wolves, right, And like wildlife management 0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:28.280 is just not an exact science, Like everybody loves numbers, 0:25:28.880 --> 0:25:30.760 but they can't wrap their head around the fact that 0:25:30.800 --> 0:25:34.359 it's like counting anything wild is very hard to do. Like, 0:25:34.400 --> 0:25:36.840 there's a bunch of wild chickens around this house. Like 0:25:36.920 --> 0:25:39.560 take a ballpark estimate of how many birds there are 0:25:39.640 --> 0:25:44.920 at six? How'd you come up with that? He was like, well, 0:25:44.960 --> 0:25:48.680 the first day, well I saw one softore. Yeah. Right, 0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:53.000 but uh, the state Idaho has a bunch of camera 0:25:53.040 --> 0:25:56.760 traps out there. They do aerial surveys. Um, there's as 0:25:56.840 --> 0:26:01.320 few as let's say, nine hundred, there's as many as 0:26:01.520 --> 0:26:06.479 two thousand, and in the middle there's the number. I 0:26:06.520 --> 0:26:12.480 think that I don't think that anyone imagined when they 0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:18.920 delisted wolves. Um, I don't think anyone imagined how ineffective 0:26:20.640 --> 0:26:25.000 human hunters would prove to be. I think they I mean, 0:26:25.119 --> 0:26:27.640 I don't think that the idea was that you would 0:26:27.680 --> 0:26:30.440 like manipulate this dial and turn that up and down. 0:26:30.800 --> 0:26:34.400 But it's like they've opened it wide up. I don't 0:26:34.400 --> 0:26:39.320 know if it's a lack of motivation. I'm part of 0:26:39.320 --> 0:26:41.359 the public. I think a lot of people buy the tags, like, oh, 0:26:41.359 --> 0:26:43.560 I'll run into one. I think the wolves have gotten 0:26:43.680 --> 0:26:48.800 very smart. They avoid people and those numbers just grow 0:26:48.920 --> 0:26:51.080 and grow and grow. And I think that people when 0:26:51.080 --> 0:26:53.159 when they started these hunting seasons, they're supposed to be 0:26:53.160 --> 0:26:57.360 the end of wolves. Oh yeah. In the headlines, right, 0:26:57.520 --> 0:27:01.600 it was like, the hunters are going to kill mall right. 0:27:01.720 --> 0:27:05.200 But and and I think you're wrong in the fact 0:27:05.240 --> 0:27:09.040 that there were plenty of folks that have similar interest. 0:27:09.119 --> 0:27:10.800 A lot of the people in this room do a 0:27:10.880 --> 0:27:14.720 lot of reading, and we're well versed on all the 0:27:14.800 --> 0:27:18.199 old trapper and mountain man books and stuff, and it's like, 0:27:18.720 --> 0:27:20.520 if you read those things, the way we got rid 0:27:20.560 --> 0:27:23.440 of wolves was pumping a bunch of carcasses full of 0:27:23.440 --> 0:27:28.399 strick nine, and whatever ate on them died, right, And 0:27:28.440 --> 0:27:30.639 a lot of what ate on those carcasses were wolves. 0:27:31.280 --> 0:27:34.520 And we did that everywhere the book I'm reading right now, 0:27:34.600 --> 0:27:36.080 I keep talking about I want to do a full 0:27:36.119 --> 0:27:40.120 report on Alaska's wolf man. When he was doing wolf work, 0:27:40.880 --> 0:27:45.000 he would go into an area where there was like 0:27:45.040 --> 0:27:47.879 a caribou herd that was getting too much predation on it, 0:27:48.080 --> 0:27:52.240 and any patch of high ground around he would shoot 0:27:52.240 --> 0:27:56.320 a caribou, lace its carcass with strick nine and then 0:27:56.440 --> 0:27:58.760 use also a little balls of fat that he would 0:27:58.840 --> 0:28:01.000 also poison and scare at them all around, and that 0:28:01.119 --> 0:28:06.480 was his methodology. Yeah, the plinking away at him, it 0:28:06.640 --> 0:28:11.399 was wholesale like, and asked him to how effective that was. 0:28:11.440 --> 0:28:15.080 He was working your cotsoby one time poisoning wolves and 0:28:15.119 --> 0:28:17.840 a guy reported that he saw a group of nine wolves. 0:28:17.880 --> 0:28:20.560 It was like two black wolves and seven gray ones 0:28:20.640 --> 0:28:23.280 calm off the sea ice and he's like, oh, it's interesting. 0:28:23.280 --> 0:28:24.760 A couple days later, goes to check one of his 0:28:24.800 --> 0:28:28.320 bait stations. There's all nine of them, two black ones 0:28:28.320 --> 0:28:31.840 and seven gray phase laying around his bait station. Very effective, 0:28:32.520 --> 0:28:35.679 very effective, And I don't in any way think that 0:28:35.720 --> 0:28:38.600 we need to return to that. But that was it 0:28:38.680 --> 0:28:41.480 wasn't shooting at him. Doesn't say what else he's killing. 0:28:42.360 --> 0:28:44.560 He well, there's a picture of him doing a grip 0:28:44.560 --> 0:28:46.640 and grin with a wolverine that turned up as one 0:28:46.680 --> 0:28:50.520 of his bait stations, So I bet you can only imagine. 0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:57.200 So basically, the legislation here, which which is going to 0:28:57.240 --> 0:29:01.640 become law in in junior July UM provides for a 0:29:01.680 --> 0:29:06.680 lot of things that we're provided for with the intended 0:29:06.680 --> 0:29:13.120 purpose of mitigating live scott livestock damage. UM now it's 0:29:13.200 --> 0:29:17.600 up to the state agency to you to figure out 0:29:18.080 --> 0:29:23.360 how to implement this program that that's been handed to them. 0:29:23.520 --> 0:29:29.400 And the scary thing to me, and this is I'm 0:29:29.400 --> 0:29:35.760 not like trying to fearmonger here is uh before you 0:29:35.760 --> 0:29:39.200 get into the scary part in the bill. The frustration 0:29:39.320 --> 0:29:43.840 is that from the state legislator, it's that the frustrations 0:29:43.880 --> 0:29:46.800 that effishent game isn't doing enough. Yes, but if you 0:29:46.800 --> 0:29:48.640 look at the numbers despite all the things you laid 0:29:48.640 --> 0:29:50.720 out that they're doing, Like but but that's the criticism, 0:29:50.840 --> 0:29:52.320 Like if you won't do your job, I'll do it 0:29:52.360 --> 0:29:56.040 for you, right, And it's a lack of patience, right 0:29:56.160 --> 0:29:58.600 and and and really, yes, thank you for keeping me 0:29:58.640 --> 0:30:01.600 on track, Like that's the problem wildlife management. Right. It 0:30:01.640 --> 0:30:04.160 takes a lot of time because what they're doing is 0:30:04.200 --> 0:30:08.800 they're making incremental adjustments to a growing population and they're 0:30:08.800 --> 0:30:11.560 trying to figure out like the magic number for wolves 0:30:12.160 --> 0:30:16.200 is forty. You have to remove fort of a population 0:30:16.840 --> 0:30:19.440 in an area. There's only one study that backs this up, 0:30:19.960 --> 0:30:22.400 but that number is forty. If you can remove fort 0:30:22.800 --> 0:30:26.880 of the population, you'll see a decline, a gradual decline 0:30:27.120 --> 0:30:30.600 overall in the wolf population come in. That's surprising to me. 0:30:31.000 --> 0:30:33.760 And that's a lot of animals, right fort of a 0:30:33.960 --> 0:30:37.680 total and overall population is a shipload. If you did 0:30:37.680 --> 0:30:39.320 that too, if you did that to a population of 0:30:39.360 --> 0:30:44.440 mountain goats, they'd never recover. Oh no, no, So but 0:30:44.600 --> 0:30:49.760 last year, the state of Idaho, under the current regulations, 0:30:50.160 --> 0:30:57.000 removed over thirty of the population of the overall population 0:30:57.040 --> 0:31:00.320 of wolves in the state of Idaho, which if you 0:31:00.480 --> 0:31:03.720 put that in the context of big game animals, of 0:31:03.760 --> 0:31:08.040 which it's classified like, you'd be turning some freaking heads 0:31:08.040 --> 0:31:13.400 if you were removed of the white tail population someplace, right. Um, 0:31:13.400 --> 0:31:20.120 But that's not an apples to apples. So um. The 0:31:20.200 --> 0:31:26.720 scary thing here is here is a social response two, 0:31:27.400 --> 0:31:33.680 a scientific management situation that says, what, by god, if 0:31:33.680 --> 0:31:37.000 you're not gonna do something, we're gonna do something. I 0:31:37.160 --> 0:31:43.480 have very very very serious doubts that the legislation is 0:31:43.520 --> 0:31:52.360 going to result in some magical sixty percent reduction of 0:31:52.440 --> 0:31:57.120 the total overall wolf population in the state. And what 0:31:57.280 --> 0:32:01.560 happens when that happens, is there going to be another 0:32:02.600 --> 0:32:06.959 shoot from the hip social legislative response that says, Okay, 0:32:07.000 --> 0:32:11.360 then we do need to start poisoning on public land. 0:32:11.360 --> 0:32:18.120 You can poison through uh you know, uh certified agencies 0:32:18.440 --> 0:32:23.360 on private land currently. But you know, you take the 0:32:23.360 --> 0:32:27.360 state Idaho. You got hundred wolves in the entire state 0:32:27.360 --> 0:32:32.880 of Idaho. Dead center in the state is this impassable 0:32:32.960 --> 0:32:36.680 chunk of ground that connects with Hall's Canyon, um the 0:32:36.720 --> 0:32:39.800 frank Church Wilderness, which is two point four million acres. 0:32:40.520 --> 0:32:43.400 Do the math on fred wolves covering two point four 0:32:43.480 --> 0:32:48.200 million acres. Right, it's no big surprise that people aren't 0:32:48.240 --> 0:32:51.400 running into wolves left, right and center. Right. You can 0:32:51.480 --> 0:32:53.680 run into a lot of wolf tracks, but actually putting 0:32:53.720 --> 0:32:59.760 eyes on one is tough. Um Like, we're not. I 0:33:00.160 --> 0:33:03.160 just don't think we're gonna get to some astounding amount 0:33:03.200 --> 0:33:06.680 of wolves with this legislative tool that all of a 0:33:06.720 --> 0:33:09.800 sudden got pulled out of the toolbox. And what happens 0:33:09.840 --> 0:33:12.520 when that reality sets in? Are we then going to 0:33:12.560 --> 0:33:15.200 see this slippery slope which is the analogy we love 0:33:15.280 --> 0:33:20.200 to use in the hunting world of more managing wildlife 0:33:20.200 --> 0:33:25.560 through legislation. The headlines around this would tell you that 0:33:25.560 --> 0:33:28.840 it's gonna be very effective. Writers. I had a whole 0:33:28.880 --> 0:33:32.160 lawmakers pass bill to kill most of state's wolf population, 0:33:33.440 --> 0:33:37.360 it's like, yeah, I don't think so, no, no, no, 0:33:37.440 --> 0:33:41.240 I mean the we know some things are effective, right, 0:33:41.280 --> 0:33:47.120 we know trapping is effective, but effective trappers the overall 0:33:47.160 --> 0:33:52.600 trapping population is very low. The very effective trappers within 0:33:52.680 --> 0:33:57.080 that population is very very low. And I mean it's 0:33:57.080 --> 0:34:03.880 a full time job through through the hunting reports, you know, 0:34:03.960 --> 0:34:05.880 because it's a big game animal. You gotta report your 0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:08.800 heart of best in the state of Idaho. UM, there's 0:34:08.840 --> 0:34:15.680 been one trapper who's filled his twenty tags, and that 0:34:15.680 --> 0:34:19.720 that was from last two two thousand nineteen season, I believe, 0:34:20.160 --> 0:34:23.360 where you were limited to ten hunting tags ten trapping tags. 0:34:23.840 --> 0:34:25.640 Talk to that guy, Oh, I would love to too. 0:34:25.719 --> 0:34:29.719 If you're listening, please right in. We'll give you a 0:34:30.640 --> 0:34:35.680 hat or something, because that's an amazing feats. Would love 0:34:35.840 --> 0:34:37.960 just to get a little bit of intel from that 0:34:37.960 --> 0:34:40.200 guy about what he goes about doing. Yeah, and I 0:34:40.239 --> 0:34:43.440 guarantee it's not like, oh, well one weekend I went out. 0:34:48.000 --> 0:34:51.080 What's their end goal with that? Just to like the 0:34:51.160 --> 0:34:53.680 people that want the wolves gone gone? I mean, if 0:34:53.719 --> 0:34:56.680 you think about eight in two thousand and twenty, going 0:34:56.719 --> 0:35:01.239 back to that, there's a D two confer cattle that's 0:35:01.280 --> 0:35:05.200 pretty good in my opinion, but it's those other unforeseen things. 0:35:05.239 --> 0:35:09.040 And then there's also there's also sort of like proxy stuff, right, Like, 0:35:09.080 --> 0:35:13.480 there's an enormous amount of like it's it's not even 0:35:13.480 --> 0:35:17.720 a debatable fact that it has ramifications for big game hunting, 0:35:18.040 --> 0:35:21.799 right But if a hunter says, hey, my problem with 0:35:21.960 --> 0:35:25.200 having what I would call too many wolves is it 0:35:25.360 --> 0:35:28.759 lowers the get the pool of animals out there for 0:35:28.800 --> 0:35:30.840 people who want to hunt, because the people looking and 0:35:30.920 --> 0:35:34.279 be like, well, that's an illegitimate argument. So I think 0:35:34.320 --> 0:35:36.200 it's in a little wait, there's sort of like taking 0:35:36.200 --> 0:35:39.640 a thing that has some level of public sympathy, which 0:35:39.640 --> 0:35:44.359 would be a livestock producers ability to stand business, right like, 0:35:44.520 --> 0:35:47.440 that seems important. And you take all of these different 0:35:47.440 --> 0:35:50.040 anxieties about wolves, whether they come from people who have 0:35:51.000 --> 0:35:53.840 what I would argue to be very ill founded concerns 0:35:53.840 --> 0:35:58.440 about human welfare, legitimate concerns about wild game populations, legitimate 0:35:58.440 --> 0:36:01.640 concerns about cattle shoes, and you kind of put it 0:36:01.680 --> 0:36:04.600 into a place that seems like the best way you're 0:36:04.600 --> 0:36:07.399 gonna win um for hunters to say, like, I want 0:36:07.400 --> 0:36:08.880 there to be a lot more elk around because I 0:36:08.880 --> 0:36:11.560 like to shoot at them. People like are very unsympathetic, 0:36:11.560 --> 0:36:14.480 even though that to me seems like an extremely rational argument, 0:36:14.480 --> 0:36:17.440 people are very unsympathetic to that. And from the Clearwater 0:36:17.640 --> 0:36:21.840 North all the way, which is essentially the Panhandle, Idaho, 0:36:22.080 --> 0:36:23.960 if you look at it as a as a handle 0:36:24.320 --> 0:36:27.200 with frame pan on the end um from the Clearwater 0:36:27.280 --> 0:36:31.040 North there there's unmistage, Like there's no doubt there's been 0:36:31.280 --> 0:36:35.520 a reduction in elk numbers in those zones. But that's 0:36:35.560 --> 0:36:41.319 also where the bulk of the authorized wolf depredation like 0:36:41.440 --> 0:36:44.799 aerial gunning, has gone on. And that's that's where like 0:36:45.040 --> 0:36:47.920 the big the hammer, sledge hammer sized tools and the 0:36:47.920 --> 0:36:51.160 tool kit are coming out to reduce those those wolf 0:36:51.280 --> 0:36:53.480 numbers in those zones. There's also the issue if you're 0:36:53.480 --> 0:36:58.520 still running around with from the mid nineties when they 0:36:58.560 --> 0:37:01.919 began to do reroductions, people had to put numbers out there, 0:37:02.080 --> 0:37:04.480 and you're you're at zero, right, You're at like effectively 0:37:04.600 --> 0:37:08.560 zero wolves. So people say, what does success look like 0:37:08.600 --> 0:37:12.160 to you? And they threw out some numbers that now 0:37:12.200 --> 0:37:14.719 seemed like astonishingly low, but they were. They threw out 0:37:14.800 --> 0:37:17.680 numbers that people could agree with. They're like oh, let's 0:37:17.680 --> 0:37:22.000 say hundred fifty, you know, like low asked numbers, and 0:37:22.040 --> 0:37:23.400 then people are like, wow, I guess if it's only 0:37:23.400 --> 0:37:25.160 a hundred fifty, I can get on board with that, right, 0:37:25.160 --> 0:37:27.920 I won't resist that as much. And then time goes 0:37:27.960 --> 0:37:30.359 on and they have es a predict protection. You hit 0:37:30.400 --> 0:37:33.560 one fifty, and then the states say, okay, we're there, 0:37:33.680 --> 0:37:36.120 We're gonna go back to state management, and then people 0:37:36.560 --> 0:37:40.560 use lawsuits to block those management plans for twenty years, 0:37:42.520 --> 0:37:44.399 and all of a sudden, the one fifty we were 0:37:44.400 --> 0:37:48.640 talking about is one thousand, five hundred, and people get 0:37:48.680 --> 0:37:51.480 real used to that number. So then this number that 0:37:51.520 --> 0:37:53.640 everybody agreed on one fifty, some of the proposals we 0:37:53.760 --> 0:37:55.400 go back to one fifty. And how are you treated 0:37:55.400 --> 0:37:57.640 in the media. You want to kill nine of the 0:37:57.640 --> 0:38:00.719 wolves and I don't know, I didn't come up with 0:38:00.719 --> 0:38:04.280 the number. You guys came up with the number even 0:38:04.520 --> 0:38:07.480 even in this discussion. Right, what we're looking at is 0:38:07.520 --> 0:38:10.560 this vacuum where it's the number of elk versus the 0:38:10.600 --> 0:38:13.399 number of wolves, and all the other factors aren't being 0:38:13.440 --> 0:38:16.600 taken into account. Right, So from the Clearwater North, that's 0:38:16.640 --> 0:38:21.160 like the Densest thickest pine forest in the state Idaho, 0:38:21.480 --> 0:38:23.920 which at the time of Lewis and Clark, they were like, 0:38:24.440 --> 0:38:27.920 you know, the natives around there, the Nez Perce were like, oh, 0:38:27.960 --> 0:38:32.240 there's no food up there, Like you're you're gonna starve 0:38:32.280 --> 0:38:37.040 in the mountains. Right then, we had major catastrophic fires 0:38:37.560 --> 0:38:40.919 um the big burn era right that ripped through there, 0:38:41.000 --> 0:38:45.359 along with heavy timber management, like heavy timber management with 0:38:45.560 --> 0:38:48.919 which opened up a ton of country. There were elk 0:38:49.000 --> 0:38:54.280 re reintroductions going on, so we you had fresh growth, 0:38:55.760 --> 0:39:00.440 rehab growth in that area and then constant timber production, 0:39:00.920 --> 0:39:04.960 more big burns in the thirties, constant timber production. It 0:39:05.040 --> 0:39:08.520 was much more. It was a much better place to 0:39:08.560 --> 0:39:11.359 be as an elk during that time. That very well 0:39:11.360 --> 0:39:15.080 could have been the heyday of elk in that region, 0:39:16.360 --> 0:39:22.719 and it very well could be this real terrible meet 0:39:22.719 --> 0:39:28.400 in the middle situation of less timber management. Some of 0:39:28.440 --> 0:39:33.400 that has to do with with um the lawsuit type 0:39:33.400 --> 0:39:38.480 of situation around timber harvest, and we haven't had big 0:39:38.520 --> 0:39:43.280 burns and you got wolves that are just really freaking 0:39:43.320 --> 0:39:45.840 hard to get on in in big, dark, dark timber, 0:39:46.480 --> 0:39:49.319 and that area grows really big bowls and really big 0:39:49.360 --> 0:39:51.120 bucks because they're really hard to get on in big 0:39:51.200 --> 0:39:54.000 dark timber two. Um. But you know, I was talking 0:39:54.000 --> 0:39:56.839 with a buddy of mine and he's like, and I'm 0:39:56.840 --> 0:39:58.920 not making fun of this guy in any way, but 0:39:59.640 --> 0:40:01.560 he just said, he's like, my family has been hunting 0:40:01.600 --> 0:40:05.399 in the exact same spot, killing elk for thirty five 0:40:05.480 --> 0:40:08.879 years and we haven't seen I haven't seen an elk 0:40:09.200 --> 0:40:14.200 in uh, you know, ten years or something like that. 0:40:15.120 --> 0:40:20.120 And it's it's hard to say, but it's like the 0:40:20.200 --> 0:40:23.640 only thing that hasn't changed in that scenario is the 0:40:23.680 --> 0:40:25.440 fact that you guys put your camp in the exact 0:40:25.440 --> 0:40:30.520 same spot. Everything else has changed, forest management practices, everything 0:40:30.560 --> 0:40:33.680 has changed. Like it's just it's not you don't live 0:40:33.719 --> 0:40:36.280 in a vacuum, and it's it's so hard to contextualize 0:40:36.280 --> 0:40:40.600 all that stuff. Now I'm really done. No, that's great. 0:40:41.560 --> 0:40:43.799 Here's the interesting one. This this is like one of 0:40:43.800 --> 0:40:46.400 those things. Uh, this is one of those pieces of 0:40:46.440 --> 0:40:49.560 reporting where someone does something kind of crazy, has no 0:40:49.640 --> 0:40:51.720 chance of passing, but it still makes the news everywhere. 0:40:51.719 --> 0:40:55.040 In Oregon. There's a bill, Um what's it called. It's 0:40:55.080 --> 0:40:59.239 called the It's an initiative called the Abuse Neglect and 0:40:59.320 --> 0:41:05.400 Assault Exemption Modification Improvement Act, which would make it in Oregon. 0:41:06.080 --> 0:41:09.560 This is a bill put out there. An animal could 0:41:09.560 --> 0:41:12.160 only be injured in cases of a human self defense. 0:41:14.000 --> 0:41:17.719 A veterinarian could still spay and neuter household pets, but 0:41:18.280 --> 0:41:21.120 you would not be able to make it illegal to 0:41:21.320 --> 0:41:28.000 kill livestock. Um. It would be illegal to force and pregnant, 0:41:28.680 --> 0:41:36.440 force impregnation on livestock, and would ban meat production in 0:41:36.440 --> 0:41:40.280 the state of Oregon. That's like an interesting, very aggressive approach, 0:41:41.560 --> 0:41:43.480 but again it's almost like not worth even reporting. Actually 0:41:43.480 --> 0:41:47.160 will never go anywhere, but it's interesting the sexual mutilation 0:41:47.200 --> 0:41:54.759 aspect of it. Uh, Chester instead of bitcoin? Yep, you 0:41:54.800 --> 0:41:57.360 know what you should have invested in? Well, everyone's saying 0:41:57.400 --> 0:42:03.040 doge coin for us? Off Hollos Bitcoin, the Continuing Adventures 0:42:03.040 --> 0:42:13.040 of Chester the investor. Come that's it come off? Um, 0:42:13.080 --> 0:42:18.080 It's it's just kind of up and down and up 0:42:18.080 --> 0:42:22.839 and nah, it's not petered out. It's just I think 0:42:22.880 --> 0:42:26.799 it's still smart to dabble in it. Well, we had 0:42:26.800 --> 0:42:28.320 our when we had our meat, did you buy a 0:42:28.320 --> 0:42:30.160 meatcrafter knife or did you get one for free? When 0:42:30.160 --> 0:42:32.319 we came out with our bench bade meatcrafter. I would 0:42:32.360 --> 0:42:35.520 have loved one, though listen, there was there's a limited number. 0:42:35.560 --> 0:42:38.120 They're all gone. They were sold for three hundred bucks apiece. 0:42:38.239 --> 0:42:42.000 A guy has put one up on eBay. He got, 0:42:42.440 --> 0:42:47.600 uh thirty seven bids. The bidding on that knife closed 0:42:47.600 --> 0:42:51.160 at one thousand, two five dollars plus twenty dollars shipping 0:42:51.160 --> 0:42:57.239 and handling. Thirty seven bids. Knife now going for one 0:42:57.320 --> 0:43:03.200 thousand two bucks. You got any more of those laying around? 0:43:03.560 --> 0:43:06.399 I just I just asked Casey how many we got, 0:43:06.440 --> 0:43:09.040 because we're gonna start our meat Eator auction house of oddities. 0:43:09.560 --> 0:43:12.439 And at first I didn't think that that because it's 0:43:12.440 --> 0:43:16.800 an auction, it's for conservation spending. We're auction off weird 0:43:16.800 --> 0:43:20.399 ship cool stuff. Like the first thing is Buck Bold, 0:43:20.640 --> 0:43:23.799 a birch bowl, a buckey bowl by Buck Bowing, all 0:43:23.840 --> 0:43:26.759 kinds of stuff. We gotta bring home something from this trip. 0:43:27.840 --> 0:43:30.040 Um and now we can put our own knives in there. 0:43:30.040 --> 0:43:32.840 And now that they're like collectors, I can't believe that. 0:43:32.840 --> 0:43:36.240 That's amazing. Uh, the suvied thing, even though I promise 0:43:36.320 --> 0:43:39.359 not to talk about anymore. Um, that's still interesting though. 0:43:40.000 --> 0:43:43.000 So the whole with everybody who listens is aware of this. 0:43:43.040 --> 0:43:45.600 The conversation about the guy that warmed his birthing his 0:43:45.680 --> 0:43:51.319 wife's birthing pool with a Suvie wand a pastor just 0:43:51.400 --> 0:43:56.440 wrote in he's always struggled with getting his baptismal well, 0:43:56.760 --> 0:44:01.400 what do they call it? Just calls it the baptismal 0:44:01.400 --> 0:44:04.839 three gallon Galvini I stock tank for baptizing people. He's 0:44:04.880 --> 0:44:11.600 always struggled with watertown got himself Suvie. This keeps a 0:44:11.960 --> 0:44:15.439 very comfortable temperature, but then pulls the wand out when 0:44:15.440 --> 0:44:17.600 he has the baptism, when he has to baptize somebody. 0:44:17.960 --> 0:44:20.799 This reminds me of do you remember when we were 0:44:20.800 --> 0:44:23.280 all sitting there freezing our butts off in the ripping 0:44:23.320 --> 0:44:28.200 wind on a super icy lake this winter. We're talking 0:44:28.239 --> 0:44:31.759 about methods keeping the ice hole from your generator in 0:44:31.800 --> 0:44:35.840 the Suvie one. We run a shipload of su VI's 0:44:35.880 --> 0:44:39.720 out there. So this guy right here, genuine pastor doing 0:44:39.760 --> 0:44:44.880 baptisms and Suvie heated water. He even send a picture. Uh, Kimmy, 0:44:44.880 --> 0:44:46.399 this I want you to win on this one. We've 0:44:46.400 --> 0:44:48.600 been had. We were having a debate recently about how 0:44:48.640 --> 0:44:50.640 why snap and turtles don't seem to want to bite 0:44:50.640 --> 0:44:52.279 you underwater, but as soon as you lift him out, 0:44:52.320 --> 0:44:55.480 they want to bite you. The guy was saying, this 0:44:55.560 --> 0:44:58.640 is this is apropo. Guy wrote, and I was in 0:44:58.680 --> 0:45:00.600 Hawaii a few years back. We decided to do a 0:45:00.600 --> 0:45:05.120 guided storkling trip. He says. His family is very scared 0:45:05.160 --> 0:45:07.680 of the ocean, so they were overloading the guide with 0:45:07.760 --> 0:45:12.000 questions about what all will bite you. They got to 0:45:12.200 --> 0:45:15.080 question about getting bit by sharks, They questioned about getting 0:45:15.080 --> 0:45:17.839 stung by urchins, and then one of his cousins says, 0:45:17.880 --> 0:45:22.560 do the sea turtles ever bite? The guide laughed, acted 0:45:22.560 --> 0:45:25.480 like it was the dumbest question he'd ever heard. Says 0:45:25.480 --> 0:45:28.359 he's been diving for forty years. I never seen anyone 0:45:28.440 --> 0:45:31.000 bit by a sea turtle. The guy goes on to say, 0:45:31.040 --> 0:45:34.200 I shoot you not. Those were the last words that 0:45:34.280 --> 0:45:38.120 beach Bump said before hopping in the water and immediately 0:45:38.160 --> 0:45:41.279 having a full grown, three pound piste off mama sea 0:45:41.280 --> 0:45:47.759 turtle latch onto his stomach. Do you buy that? I do. 0:45:48.000 --> 0:45:50.560 I know someone who got bit by a turtle. My 0:45:50.760 --> 0:45:54.080 friend Angela's a spear fisher in Um. A turtle just 0:45:54.160 --> 0:45:56.080 came up to her and bitter right on the butt 0:45:56.280 --> 0:46:00.200 and they through the wet suit bolke skin, but still 0:46:00.200 --> 0:46:04.359 love bite. But yeah, why do you think they're they 0:46:04.400 --> 0:46:09.759 would bite? I honestly think that because that turtle was 0:46:09.840 --> 0:46:11.960 kind of known, like it was in this place where 0:46:12.160 --> 0:46:14.520 we'd go a lot for blue water diving for oos 0:46:14.560 --> 0:46:16.759 and stuff. But in that type of diving you have 0:46:16.920 --> 0:46:23.200 chum and and and turtles will eatum, they will eat octopus, 0:46:23.200 --> 0:46:25.320 will eat all kinds of things if if they're fed it. 0:46:25.440 --> 0:46:27.440 And so I think a lot of times people have 0:46:27.560 --> 0:46:29.640 kind of got to know that turtle and maybe we're 0:46:29.640 --> 0:46:32.680 feeding it, And so I think it was just kind 0:46:32.719 --> 0:46:36.640 of a hay feed me thing. And so that story 0:46:36.640 --> 0:46:39.200 that you just told, I bet if they're taking tourists 0:46:39.480 --> 0:46:43.640 snarkling there, you know, there could be someone feeding the turtle. 0:46:43.800 --> 0:46:47.160 And I think that when they become like pets, they 0:46:47.200 --> 0:46:49.279 want to ask for a snack and they don't have 0:46:49.320 --> 0:46:52.359 any other way to ask. So as I've had one 0:46:52.360 --> 0:46:55.120 bite my fin before ye diving and scared the ship 0:46:55.160 --> 0:46:57.759 out of me, I didn't know what it was. And 0:46:57.920 --> 0:47:00.400 there's a curiosity bite, I think more and anything. It 0:47:00.400 --> 0:47:02.600 wasn't aggressive, and it's also pulling on your friend. Yeah, 0:47:02.640 --> 0:47:07.480 just real rightly though. Uh, this is interesting from Nature's 0:47:07.480 --> 0:47:11.640 metal there day the sex changing tongue eating ocean house. 0:47:12.360 --> 0:47:14.799 You know about this cow, Yeah, it looks like that. 0:47:14.840 --> 0:47:18.719 A little alien. There's a bug. It's not a bug, 0:47:19.000 --> 0:47:24.040 there's an ocean house lays eggs on a ficious gills. 0:47:24.200 --> 0:47:30.200 They like snappers. His his Linarian name is Simon thoah 0:47:30.440 --> 0:47:35.279 x Agua Xegua. I don't know they live inside uh 0:47:35.800 --> 0:47:39.000 so that this picture is out of South Africa. Their 0:47:39.080 --> 0:47:44.320 offspringer born in the ocean. A group of attached themselves 0:47:44.320 --> 0:47:47.920 inside the gills of a fish. They like to target snappers. 0:47:49.080 --> 0:47:52.319 Once they're tapped, one individual from the group will become 0:47:52.320 --> 0:48:00.600 a female, a proto Andriddick hermaphrodite. She grows larger, so 0:48:00.680 --> 0:48:03.440 one of them decides to become female. That one girls 0:48:03.480 --> 0:48:08.080 big moves onto the tongue of the fish, clamps onto 0:48:08.080 --> 0:48:12.319 the fish's tongue, feeds off its blood, eventually cuts off 0:48:12.360 --> 0:48:15.560 the blood supply to the tongue. The tongue atrophies and 0:48:15.680 --> 0:48:20.960 falls off. Then the parasite assumes the responsibilities of the 0:48:21.000 --> 0:48:28.880 tongue and lives there as a tongue permanently. Everybody else 0:48:28.880 --> 0:48:35.120 stays a male, and they all are. It's sort of 0:48:35.120 --> 0:48:45.040 like bivy of mates hanging out on the gills. Boys, 0:48:45.160 --> 0:48:48.440 it's like the females. It's her little harem of males 0:48:48.480 --> 0:48:52.759 stuck to the gill. The great picture. Oh here's the 0:48:52.760 --> 0:48:55.120 one last thing that caught my attention. I'm on the 0:48:55.920 --> 0:48:58.880 I get emails, and I used to I've tried to 0:48:58.920 --> 0:49:01.719 not I've tried, like subscribe it. You can't unsubscribe, and 0:49:01.719 --> 0:49:03.640 Non'm glad I didn't unsubscribe, even though I've tried a 0:49:03.680 --> 0:49:07.520 couple of times. From the Wildlife Conservation Society, they came 0:49:07.520 --> 0:49:10.880 out with like they're sort of like rolling with the 0:49:10.960 --> 0:49:15.560 social distancing thing, you know, and they're saying and they 0:49:15.560 --> 0:49:18.040 came out with this research about how we need the 0:49:18.120 --> 0:49:21.240 social or throwing out there that we should social distance 0:49:21.280 --> 0:49:25.359 from animals better. And it looks at non consumptive recreation 0:49:25.600 --> 0:49:30.040 and the impacts of non consumptive recreation on animals. And 0:49:30.040 --> 0:49:34.600 they're putting out distances at which your presence screws with 0:49:35.120 --> 0:49:42.160 wildlife waiting burns and song birds hundred nine yards hawks 0:49:42.160 --> 0:49:45.000 and eagles. You should stay four thirty seven yards away 0:49:45.000 --> 0:49:55.000 from them mammal threshold distances a thousand yards for large 0:49:55.000 --> 0:49:57.920 on that's like moose, you should stay fifty four yards 0:49:57.960 --> 0:50:02.239 away from small rodents. Well there's a get go. Just 0:50:02.480 --> 0:50:04.600 caught him off right here. Well, you're way too close 0:50:04.600 --> 0:50:10.080 to his ask is eighteen inches. It's from from a 0:50:10.080 --> 0:50:14.400 gecko fighting. That was an ambitious you should make a 0:50:14.400 --> 0:50:21.760 little video that sweet meal. We've we've had qualified captain 0:50:21.800 --> 0:50:26.120 and Nature is Metal in two days. Well I caught 0:50:26.120 --> 0:50:27.960 it right there while we're talking about how you shouldn't 0:50:27.960 --> 0:50:31.000 get so close to critters. But point being, that's a 0:50:31.080 --> 0:50:34.839 really ambitious ask. Like, I don't know what people are 0:50:34.840 --> 0:50:41.400 gonna do with those numbers. Boy, people in parks national 0:50:41.440 --> 0:50:43.319 for us getting them to read a sign I think 0:50:43.480 --> 0:50:46.920 is uh thousand yards from moves fifty yards from a chipmunk. 0:50:47.640 --> 0:50:50.880 It's a real hard Yeah, I can't picture just getting 0:50:50.960 --> 0:50:53.720 much traction be real good for folks in the laser 0:50:53.800 --> 0:50:57.080 range laser range finder industry that need to carry range 0:50:57.080 --> 0:51:00.200 finder with you. I think what this report will do 0:51:00.520 --> 0:51:03.000 is it I think that it will. It won't like 0:51:03.160 --> 0:51:06.000 it would be horrifying to see this enacted by law, 0:51:06.040 --> 0:51:08.520 but I think it does make people asked people to 0:51:08.520 --> 0:51:11.200 be aware of what their presence asked people to be 0:51:11.239 --> 0:51:13.799 aware of what their presence around animals do. But when 0:51:13.800 --> 0:51:15.160 I see an animal, I always want to go over 0:51:15.200 --> 0:51:18.120 there and check it out. Oh yeah, I very rarely 0:51:18.280 --> 0:51:20.960 moved by the desire to get farther away. And YouTube 0:51:21.080 --> 0:51:25.880 is full of people like you. It's like, I don't know. 0:51:26.120 --> 0:51:28.879 It's worst thing would be that you're worrying wildlife. It's 0:51:28.920 --> 0:51:31.120 the way I would sell as You're just going up 0:51:31.120 --> 0:51:34.279 there to have a look. Look look at that. Let's 0:51:34.280 --> 0:51:36.960 go and have a look. It's just my instinct, man. 0:51:37.760 --> 0:51:40.279 So seeing this felt like I felt really singled out. 0:51:42.880 --> 0:51:46.799 Fifty four yards from a chipmunk. My mom's head right 0:51:46.800 --> 0:51:50.240 now as she sleeps is about three inches from a chipmunk. Chipmunk. 0:51:50.280 --> 0:52:03.200 Then on the other side of the brick. All right, 0:52:03.280 --> 0:52:05.359 Kimmy and Johnson, give yourself, give you guys a better, 0:52:05.440 --> 0:52:09.520 more thorough introduction. Now Red Talk Shop, Red Talk Hawaii 0:52:10.480 --> 0:52:14.520 introduced myself. Both of you like give you like what 0:52:14.640 --> 0:52:17.080 your stick is, what's your spe you know your spiel? 0:52:17.160 --> 0:52:19.560 These are all Yiddish terms. I think, like what your 0:52:19.560 --> 0:52:24.560 deal is. I'm Kimmy Werner and I was born and 0:52:24.640 --> 0:52:28.040 raised here in Hawaii, Maui and grew up kind of 0:52:28.080 --> 0:52:30.560 tagging along with my dad when he would go spear fishing. 0:52:30.840 --> 0:52:34.400 And now I'm a spear fisher woman myself, and this 0:52:34.520 --> 0:52:38.200 is my husband justin. How did you guys meet spear fishing? No, 0:52:38.320 --> 0:52:40.640 I met on a gig. I got hired from Minnesota 0:52:41.040 --> 0:52:43.719 to come to Hawaii to be a production assistant, and 0:52:43.800 --> 0:52:46.719 Kimmy was the talent on the show. And we worked 0:52:46.719 --> 0:52:48.920 together for a while. And once work was done, we 0:52:49.040 --> 0:52:54.160 um hung out. Yeah, yeah, we did the wind up 0:52:54.200 --> 0:52:56.840 being that did that? How was that received by the 0:52:56.840 --> 0:53:00.759 rest of the production team? Well? Good, Actually we waited 0:53:00.840 --> 0:53:03.239 until it was kind of over, you know, just for 0:53:03.280 --> 0:53:07.839 the sake of well, nothing happened on production. You guys 0:53:07.880 --> 0:53:10.640 took a shine to each other. I just stared at 0:53:10.680 --> 0:53:15.280 him a lot and and and then after production wrapped, 0:53:15.320 --> 0:53:17.400 like we did some filming here and then we went 0:53:17.440 --> 0:53:20.480 to Mexico and then after production wrapped. Um, then we 0:53:20.520 --> 0:53:24.840 started talking and then I invited him to Hawaii. About him, 0:53:24.880 --> 0:53:27.080 I liked that he was really nice and that he 0:53:27.120 --> 0:53:31.480 worked really hard because it was um kind of a 0:53:31.480 --> 0:53:35.680 ship show of a production, like it was really bad, 0:53:36.000 --> 0:53:39.080 and and there was a lot of tempers and stress 0:53:39.120 --> 0:53:41.239 and egos and all kinds of stuff that you just 0:53:41.320 --> 0:53:45.480 really it wasn't a good feeling production a lot of times. 0:53:45.640 --> 0:53:50.799 And and Justin who had just taken a gig. He's 0:53:50.880 --> 0:53:54.400 he was a cinematographer for snowboarding and bow hunting, but 0:53:54.520 --> 0:53:56.200 he just took a gig as a p a just 0:53:56.200 --> 0:53:58.400 because he wanted to come to Hawaii. And so he 0:53:58.480 --> 0:54:01.400 was kind of working so hard rookie circles around a 0:54:01.400 --> 0:54:02.920 lot of people, and I just noticed that he was 0:54:02.960 --> 0:54:06.200 just always kind to everyone, and in the midst of 0:54:06.200 --> 0:54:08.720 all that stress, it was just like something I could 0:54:08.719 --> 0:54:14.359 tune into to not get irritated. And he had nice eyes, 0:54:15.200 --> 0:54:19.799 would you like, I remember just watching her goal pro. 0:54:20.000 --> 0:54:22.520 I mean she was very kind to everyone, of course, 0:54:22.640 --> 0:54:25.000 and she cooked very well, which is really great, but 0:54:25.360 --> 0:54:28.240 most of your kindness. But then I remember being blown 0:54:28.280 --> 0:54:31.200 away on one of our trips, like I'm so new 0:54:31.600 --> 0:54:33.400 at this point to the ocean. And when we were 0:54:33.440 --> 0:54:35.160 in Mexico, she was wearing a goal pro and she 0:54:35.239 --> 0:54:37.600 shot an ahi, And first of all, I didn't even 0:54:37.640 --> 0:54:40.600 know you could like shoot fish underwater, which spear fishing. 0:54:40.600 --> 0:54:42.160 I didn't even know what it really because it's still 0:54:42.280 --> 0:54:44.040 hanging from a tree. If you do that in Minnesota 0:54:44.040 --> 0:54:46.680 pretty much. Yeah, now I hear about shooting Walleye and 0:54:46.680 --> 0:54:51.440 then really um Montana, but so I remember watching that 0:54:51.480 --> 0:54:53.719 and I just thought like, holy sh it, this is 0:54:53.760 --> 0:54:56.080 the most badass thing I've really ever seen, you know, 0:54:57.000 --> 0:54:58.640 and her just like being able to do that in 0:54:58.680 --> 0:55:00.960 control and then learning more of out her. But then um, 0:55:01.239 --> 0:55:03.040 once we were able to just spend time with each 0:55:03.080 --> 0:55:04.960 other when she brought me, like I had like four 0:55:05.040 --> 0:55:08.600 days off in between hunts. She brought me to uh Maui, 0:55:08.640 --> 0:55:11.120 where we ended up getting married like eight years later, 0:55:11.800 --> 0:55:14.279 and she came over from a different island, and she 0:55:14.360 --> 0:55:19.120 brought venison, lobster and minpaci, which you guys learned about um. 0:55:19.760 --> 0:55:21.520 And then we fell in love and it was It's 0:55:21.560 --> 0:55:23.640 the same type of lifestyle that I grew up on, 0:55:24.360 --> 0:55:26.960 except for in Hawaii. You know, I was really attracted 0:55:26.960 --> 0:55:29.880 to lakes and wilderness and hunting, and she was everything 0:55:29.920 --> 0:55:32.760 about that, um, but in Hawaii, which was so foreign 0:55:32.800 --> 0:55:36.879 to me. So now being here eight years, I felt 0:55:36.920 --> 0:55:38.799 like a kid again, learning the ocean and learning a 0:55:38.800 --> 0:55:41.719 whole new hunting tactic of of spear fishing, you know, 0:55:41.800 --> 0:55:44.759 learning the oceans, learning how to free dive and things 0:55:44.840 --> 0:55:47.360 like that. So she really has changed my life in 0:55:47.400 --> 0:55:50.200 such a great way. And it was kind of neat because, um, 0:55:51.080 --> 0:55:54.279 when after our four day first date, you know, when 0:55:54.280 --> 0:55:58.440 we did fall in love and um, Justin, it was 0:55:58.520 --> 0:56:01.239 kind of an interesting situation and because we wanted to 0:56:01.280 --> 0:56:03.839 be together, I wanted to be in Hawaii, and so 0:56:04.160 --> 0:56:06.440 Justin was trying to figure out how to get here. 0:56:06.520 --> 0:56:10.160 But he was a snowboarding cinematographer and so it's not 0:56:10.280 --> 0:56:15.200 like the easiest career to keep living in Hawaii and um, 0:56:15.680 --> 0:56:19.719 and so it's just really neat that somehow I was 0:56:19.760 --> 0:56:22.720 able to take this Minnesota boy and just like train 0:56:22.800 --> 0:56:26.200 them to dive, and it ended up being the coolest 0:56:26.239 --> 0:56:30.200 thing to like mold this person from scratch to be 0:56:31.120 --> 0:56:36.359 this underwater cameraman who had no bad habits at all, 0:56:36.520 --> 0:56:39.640 and I could really just like teach him like where 0:56:39.680 --> 0:56:41.960 to lay, how to how I hunt, And it ended 0:56:42.040 --> 0:56:46.200 up just being really cool a good way to um 0:56:46.320 --> 0:56:49.040 bring us together first of all. But now that we 0:56:49.120 --> 0:56:51.759 still do that today, it's just it's pretty fun. Yeah, 0:56:51.760 --> 0:56:55.040 you guys worked together like a very fine tuned machine, 0:56:55.480 --> 0:56:58.240 but you know what each other is thinking. Yeah, without 0:56:58.600 --> 0:57:00.680 And that's one thing. In water, you can't really communicate 0:57:00.760 --> 0:57:02.680 right unless you stick your head up, and then you're 0:57:02.680 --> 0:57:05.400 burning energy yelling or talking. You're trying to get that 0:57:05.440 --> 0:57:08.760 person's attention. So it's just all like the more instinct 0:57:08.800 --> 0:57:10.560 you can be, the better, because there are so many 0:57:10.600 --> 0:57:14.120 times when I wanted to say things to to you 0:57:14.200 --> 0:57:16.200 and to cow in the water, and I just like 0:57:16.520 --> 0:57:19.240 I wish it was like hunting on land when when 0:57:19.240 --> 0:57:21.880 someone's helping me, they're always whispering in my ear, and 0:57:21.920 --> 0:57:23.400 that there's so how many times I want it's like 0:57:23.400 --> 0:57:26.280 whisper in your ear, But I can't because you can't 0:57:26.280 --> 0:57:28.760 talk underwater. And if I take my head out of 0:57:28.800 --> 0:57:30.880 the water to talk to you gotta take your head 0:57:30.920 --> 0:57:32.960 of the water. At anytime your head's out of the water, 0:57:33.280 --> 0:57:36.520 it's not good because you're taking yourself out of that world. 0:57:36.520 --> 0:57:40.040 You're taking your eyes off that fish. And so it's 0:57:40.080 --> 0:57:44.480 it's really um a difficult place to communicate with words. 0:57:44.520 --> 0:57:47.120 And so the more you learn to just watch somebody's 0:57:47.160 --> 0:57:50.800 body language and understand what they're thinking and what they're doing, 0:57:50.960 --> 0:57:54.800 the more seamless. You become like a pack. Oh yeah, 0:57:54.920 --> 0:57:59.440 watching you do is very apparent, like it's it's I mean, 0:57:59.640 --> 0:58:05.120 it's it's fun to see like the level of i 0:58:05.160 --> 0:58:09.040 mean communication and and just like flow that that's possible. 0:58:09.200 --> 0:58:13.200 You know what when you were what was your earliest 0:58:13.200 --> 0:58:18.640 exposure to the ocean. My dad says I was four. 0:58:18.840 --> 0:58:22.440 I remember it when I was five. But around four 0:58:22.560 --> 0:58:25.800 or five, my dad um started letting me take along 0:58:25.960 --> 0:58:28.800 with him to do what to go spear fishing. I 0:58:28.800 --> 0:58:31.840 wouldn't spear fish, but my dad, um, that's how he 0:58:31.880 --> 0:58:34.520 put food on the table. My parents didn't really have 0:58:34.560 --> 0:58:37.200 a lot of money, and that's like literally how he 0:58:37.320 --> 0:58:41.240 fed us was to go spear fishing and um. And 0:58:41.280 --> 0:58:43.400 he always just says it's because when my mom was 0:58:43.480 --> 0:58:46.800 working as a waitress, he couldn't afford a babysitter, so 0:58:46.840 --> 0:58:49.240 he just started bringing me along. And at first he 0:58:49.280 --> 0:58:51.760 would just told me on a bookieboard, but I'd always 0:58:51.800 --> 0:58:53.720 want off the boogieboard. I don't want to see everything. 0:58:53.760 --> 0:58:55.960 So then my job was just to keep up, and 0:58:56.000 --> 0:58:57.920 so all I would do is swim on the surface. 0:58:57.960 --> 0:59:01.280 I wouldn't help much, you know, I just tell him 0:59:01.320 --> 0:59:03.040 what I wanted for dinner and watch him go down 0:59:03.040 --> 0:59:06.160 and get it for me. But that was my earliest introduction. 0:59:06.200 --> 0:59:10.640 Were your parents married, They were married? Yeah, And then 0:59:11.320 --> 0:59:14.720 how far back he married was your was your father 0:59:14.760 --> 0:59:17.800 and mother both born in Hawaii. My mom was born 0:59:17.840 --> 0:59:22.640 in Hawaii. My dad was born in New Mexico. Yeah, 0:59:22.840 --> 0:59:24.960 and he came here and took to just eating out 0:59:24.960 --> 0:59:30.840 of the ocean. Yeah. He um, he was. Um. He 0:59:30.880 --> 0:59:34.840 went to Vietnam and when he got out he kind 0:59:34.840 --> 0:59:36.320 of didn't know what to do with himself. And he 0:59:36.560 --> 0:59:39.280 moved to Hawaii in his early twenties and he was 0:59:39.320 --> 0:59:44.040 taken in by this wonderful Hawaiian family. Um, we'll see 0:59:44.040 --> 0:59:47.360 a combat veteran. He was in the Air Force and 0:59:47.560 --> 0:59:51.480 um he was actually um um more of a mechanic 0:59:51.760 --> 0:59:54.200 in the Air Force. But um, but yeah, he got 0:59:54.240 --> 0:59:58.160 taken in by this beautiful, wonderful Hawaiian family who they 0:59:58.240 --> 1:00:00.800 just taught him. Um. It was a the grandma of 1:00:00.880 --> 1:00:04.400 the family that um that kind of got him into 1:00:04.440 --> 1:00:08.480 spear fishing. When so, when you were little, did you 1:00:09.360 --> 1:00:12.440 do you remember at because you gotta exposed to it 1:00:12.520 --> 1:00:16.280 at four years old sometime around then, did you do 1:00:16.320 --> 1:00:20.960 you remember ever registering fear of the ocean or did 1:00:21.080 --> 1:00:23.680 did you miss did you skip that step? Oh? No? 1:00:23.960 --> 1:00:27.840 I um. Everything about it was scary, like we would 1:00:27.840 --> 1:00:31.040 have to you know. We would pull up at these 1:00:32.120 --> 1:00:35.520 big tall cliffs and my mom would drop off. Sometimes 1:00:35.520 --> 1:00:37.480 my mom would drop off my dad and I and 1:00:37.520 --> 1:00:38.880 then he'd have to put me on his back and 1:00:38.880 --> 1:00:40.680 we hiked down these cliffs and we jump off these 1:00:40.760 --> 1:00:43.080 rocks and then we'd be in like crazy blue water 1:00:43.200 --> 1:00:46.720 that you couldn't touch and you couldn't see, and we 1:00:46.760 --> 1:00:49.680 would drift the coast down to another bay where my 1:00:49.680 --> 1:00:51.640 mom would pick us up. And so a lot of 1:00:51.680 --> 1:00:54.520 that was intimidating to me. And my dad would just 1:00:54.600 --> 1:00:57.640 like he would just play these like tricks on me 1:00:57.680 --> 1:00:59.680 that he would It's true, but he would always like 1:00:59.720 --> 1:01:01.000 look at me as soon as we pulled up and 1:01:01.040 --> 1:01:05.800 he knew I was scared. He would always just be like, wow, Cam, 1:01:05.840 --> 1:01:08.640 aren't you aren't you relieved? We just survived the most 1:01:08.680 --> 1:01:11.760 dangerous part of our day, the car ride, Like, let's go, 1:01:11.840 --> 1:01:13.919 it's all downhill from here. And he'd always like say 1:01:13.960 --> 1:01:15.560 stuff like that to kind of train me to think 1:01:15.600 --> 1:01:20.040 about things differently. And and yeah, and sometimes I would 1:01:20.360 --> 1:01:23.720 get in the water and I get distracted. I'd see 1:01:23.760 --> 1:01:26.120 a beautiful turtle or something, and then I wasn't doing 1:01:26.160 --> 1:01:27.840 my job of keeping up, and I would look up 1:01:27.880 --> 1:01:30.080 and there he'd be, nowhere in sight, and I would 1:01:30.120 --> 1:01:31.760 just be alone in the blue. And that was really 1:01:31.800 --> 1:01:34.360 scary for me. But I'd have to like look at 1:01:34.400 --> 1:01:36.880 the edge of my visibility, like just to see the 1:01:36.880 --> 1:01:41.280 bubbles left by his fins and just keep swimming that way. Um. 1:01:41.320 --> 1:01:42.920 But you know, I think it was just because I 1:01:42.960 --> 1:01:46.040 was so young, and I just my dad was like 1:01:46.120 --> 1:01:48.720 my Superman in my in my eyes, you know, he 1:01:48.760 --> 1:01:51.760 could in my eyes, he could do anything, especially at 1:01:51.800 --> 1:01:54.600 that age, Like he was just my hero. And so 1:01:54.960 --> 1:01:57.240 as long as I knew that I could see those 1:01:57.240 --> 1:01:59.000 bubbles from his fins, as long as I knew that 1:01:59.000 --> 1:02:00.640 I could see a silhouette, as long as I knew 1:02:00.640 --> 1:02:05.000 he was anywhere around me, I just felt like, um, 1:02:05.120 --> 1:02:07.960 nothing bad could happen. So I think that helped me 1:02:08.000 --> 1:02:11.160 overcome that fear, and he would always just really drive 1:02:11.200 --> 1:02:14.520 it into me to relax. UM. But those days didn't 1:02:14.560 --> 1:02:17.400 last forever because my parents did start making money very 1:02:17.440 --> 1:02:20.280 shortly after that. Um, they saved up money to put 1:02:20.320 --> 1:02:23.120 my mom into a community college when I was five 1:02:23.160 --> 1:02:25.640 as well. She was fourty years old, first time going 1:02:25.680 --> 1:02:30.280 to college. Um, two years later graduated, got a job 1:02:30.320 --> 1:02:33.880 as an emergency room nurse, and my dad's company also 1:02:34.240 --> 1:02:37.600 started taking off his construction company, and so then we 1:02:37.720 --> 1:02:40.840 made money. They worked all the time, and we lived. 1:02:41.040 --> 1:02:44.080 We moved out of the shock in nature. We stopped 1:02:44.080 --> 1:02:45.920 getting our food from the ocean. We got it from 1:02:45.920 --> 1:02:50.360 grocery stores and restaurants, and that kind of all ended. 1:02:50.680 --> 1:02:54.000 And so I didn't actually take up spear fishing until 1:02:54.000 --> 1:02:56.560 I was twenty four years old. And the fears I 1:02:56.600 --> 1:03:00.520 had to face as an adult, um rhein during the 1:03:00.560 --> 1:03:04.440 ocean trying to get dinner, they were they were definitely 1:03:05.320 --> 1:03:11.240 so you you didn't spearfish at all for all those years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:03:11.280 --> 1:03:14.400 it almost felt like I felt like I was really 1:03:14.520 --> 1:03:18.920 lucky to have experienced that. But it's not something that 1:03:19.000 --> 1:03:22.240 everyone does, you know, and um, it's definitely not something 1:03:22.280 --> 1:03:26.480 that girls did. And and so I pretty much just 1:03:26.520 --> 1:03:29.840 grew up like knowing that that was a passion of mine, 1:03:29.880 --> 1:03:33.320 knowing that like I had comfort and skills in the 1:03:33.320 --> 1:03:35.640 water every once in a while, like you know, every 1:03:35.680 --> 1:03:37.240 time I got in the water, I try to go 1:03:37.320 --> 1:03:39.240 and hold my breath and do stuff. But we just 1:03:39.320 --> 1:03:42.720 didn't do it as often. And um, did you do 1:03:42.800 --> 1:03:47.280 the other kids stuff in that age? Like that's like 1:03:47.320 --> 1:03:51.200 the prime social age, right, like were you doing basketball 1:03:51.320 --> 1:03:56.480 or organized sports for for school where you're surfing with 1:03:56.520 --> 1:03:59.320 folks or yeah, I like playing in the ways and 1:03:59.320 --> 1:04:02.840 going bodyboard earting, I was on the swim team, Um, 1:04:02.880 --> 1:04:06.040 all these things that you know, we're never quite as 1:04:06.080 --> 1:04:12.280 exciting as that first thing I did canoe paddling competitively. Um, 1:04:12.360 --> 1:04:15.080 but those were always my favorite memories. And my dad 1:04:15.120 --> 1:04:17.760 and I would still go fishing bottom fishing for fun 1:04:17.960 --> 1:04:21.240 and catch fish that way, but we just we didn't 1:04:21.480 --> 1:04:25.200 spend as much time going diving in the way that 1:04:25.240 --> 1:04:27.200 he used to when he would use that to feed us. 1:04:27.360 --> 1:04:31.000 And and so yeah, it wasn't until later in life 1:04:31.000 --> 1:04:34.520 when I just realized, like, you know, that's not just 1:04:35.280 --> 1:04:39.120 this nostalgic memory. It's like it's not something because I 1:04:39.160 --> 1:04:41.640 would look up the word nostalgia because I felt like 1:04:41.680 --> 1:04:44.400 I was suffering from it because I really missed those days. 1:04:44.520 --> 1:04:47.400 And it remember it said like longing for something that 1:04:47.440 --> 1:04:49.480 no longer exists. And I just thought that time of 1:04:49.640 --> 1:04:54.040 my life of living that closely to nature and getting 1:04:54.080 --> 1:04:57.520 food that way, Um, it was a time that I 1:04:57.560 --> 1:05:00.440 was lucky to experience. But it doesn't really cist in 1:05:00.440 --> 1:05:03.600 this modern world anymore as much. Um. But when I 1:05:03.640 --> 1:05:06.840 realized that it still could, that was when I decided, like, 1:05:07.400 --> 1:05:09.520 I have to go see about this, you know, And 1:05:09.560 --> 1:05:12.520 I went and I got my own spear. Um. I 1:05:12.520 --> 1:05:15.000 couldn't get anyone to take me diving, to say, in 1:05:15.040 --> 1:05:18.160 my life saw spear fishing and kind of a negative 1:05:18.240 --> 1:05:21.320 light at that point. I think he had to do it. 1:05:22.400 --> 1:05:25.040 I think he he loved it. But I know that 1:05:25.160 --> 1:05:29.200 when I was twenty four, when I did finally get 1:05:29.240 --> 1:05:32.160 that spear, and I drove myself to the beach, and 1:05:32.160 --> 1:05:34.440 I remember I just had no idea what I was 1:05:34.480 --> 1:05:38.760 doing when in the water started swimming, got super scared, 1:05:39.280 --> 1:05:42.840 like I wanted to turn around everything, and like I 1:05:42.880 --> 1:05:45.080 had to use little tricks myself, because at one point 1:05:45.120 --> 1:05:47.040 I saw a little white break and I saw the 1:05:47.040 --> 1:05:48.840 bubbles and it made me feel calm, and so I 1:05:48.920 --> 1:05:50.920 keep swimming that way. But anyway, by the end of 1:05:50.960 --> 1:05:53.600 that day, I was able to get some fish. Just 1:05:53.680 --> 1:05:56.080 remembering what I saw my dad do and I was 1:05:56.120 --> 1:05:57.720 able to get five fish, just like there was a 1:05:57.760 --> 1:06:02.439 hole hole and coole and then pie gee. And that 1:06:02.520 --> 1:06:06.440 day I just knew like I'm a changed person, Like 1:06:06.480 --> 1:06:08.240 the woman that came out of the water was just 1:06:08.320 --> 1:06:12.080 like completely different woman. I felt accomplished. I felt like 1:06:12.120 --> 1:06:14.640 a lioness. And I just felt like to take this 1:06:14.720 --> 1:06:16.880 catch home and cook it, like this is the best 1:06:16.920 --> 1:06:19.480 meal I've ever eaten. And it made me feel like 1:06:19.480 --> 1:06:21.240 I was falling in love. And I called my dad 1:06:21.360 --> 1:06:25.640 up to tell him, and I remember being so happy 1:06:25.680 --> 1:06:27.880 and just like because he was always wanting to know 1:06:27.920 --> 1:06:29.400 what I was gonna do with my life, you know, 1:06:29.600 --> 1:06:32.680 like I just um, he knew like I was cooking, 1:06:32.680 --> 1:06:34.800 but I wasn't really into it. I would always talk 1:06:34.800 --> 1:06:37.680 about doing art and he was just like those are 1:06:37.680 --> 1:06:41.640 not careers, you know. And and when I finally told him, Dad, 1:06:41.640 --> 1:06:43.480 I found what I what I'm gonna do. I thought 1:06:43.480 --> 1:06:45.120 I would be so proud because it was what he 1:06:45.200 --> 1:06:48.400 taught me. And I told him I'm gonna go diving. 1:06:48.440 --> 1:06:51.680 I'm gonna be a spear fisher, and he was just like, 1:06:52.640 --> 1:06:56.240 give me, I don't know where you're looking for the answers, 1:06:56.320 --> 1:06:58.320 but they're not going to be at the bottom of 1:06:58.360 --> 1:06:59.880 the ocean. And I remember I was just so heart 1:07:00.000 --> 1:07:03.600 broke in like he just totally like dismissed the whole 1:07:03.600 --> 1:07:07.880 idea of it, and when I thought he'd be so happy, um, 1:07:07.920 --> 1:07:11.840 And I think it is because he related that to 1:07:12.000 --> 1:07:17.840 being poor, to being so poor and struggling to you know, 1:07:18.400 --> 1:07:22.520 to survive and succeed. And when they did start making money, 1:07:22.560 --> 1:07:24.880 I guess, you know, that's what you do, is you 1:07:25.600 --> 1:07:28.880 become successful so that you can give more to your 1:07:28.960 --> 1:07:31.160 children than what you had and you can see them 1:07:31.160 --> 1:07:34.120 go further then you went, you know, I guess as 1:07:34.400 --> 1:07:37.560 parents dreams. And so when he saw me like gravitating 1:07:37.600 --> 1:07:42.080 back to wanting that, um, it didn't sound like a 1:07:42.160 --> 1:07:44.520 very good plan to him. You know, you kind of 1:07:44.560 --> 1:07:46.560 answered the question. But earlier I was going to ask 1:07:46.600 --> 1:07:49.080 you if you know, you were just making a funny 1:07:49.120 --> 1:07:51.520 point or being glib when you said that he took 1:07:51.520 --> 1:07:54.080 you because he didn't have a babysitter, And I was 1:07:54.080 --> 1:07:57.040 going to press you on if that was totally fair 1:07:57.160 --> 1:08:01.600 or not. But I'm now it seems like he wasn't. 1:08:01.640 --> 1:08:03.920 In his mind, he definitely wasn't giving you like this 1:08:04.000 --> 1:08:06.520 great gift to teach you to be in the ocean. 1:08:06.880 --> 1:08:10.080 It was pragmatic. I mean, that's what he you know, 1:08:10.160 --> 1:08:13.000 that's what he says, like. But in my mind, he 1:08:13.080 --> 1:08:15.120 had to know he was giving me such a great 1:08:15.120 --> 1:08:18.200 gift because if he said we're going diving tomorrow, I 1:08:18.280 --> 1:08:21.519 was the one knocking on his bedroom door at five 1:08:21.560 --> 1:08:24.000 in the morning saying, I think the sun's coming up, 1:08:24.080 --> 1:08:28.479 let's go. You know, so he knew that I loved it. 1:08:28.760 --> 1:08:32.080 Were you an only child? No, I, Um, I have 1:08:32.720 --> 1:08:35.960 to older half brothers, but they're out of the house already, 1:08:35.960 --> 1:08:38.080 they're much older. And so it was my sister and 1:08:38.120 --> 1:08:41.840 I who are just a year apart. And she was 1:08:41.880 --> 1:08:45.519 always invited to come, but just never really took to it. 1:08:45.560 --> 1:08:48.240 And she also my parents gave us like the choice 1:08:48.280 --> 1:08:50.120 if we wanted to go to preschool or not. I 1:08:50.200 --> 1:08:52.280 chose no, she chose yes. So she had to go 1:08:52.360 --> 1:08:58.360 live with my grandparents to go to preschool. Yeah. Um, 1:08:58.479 --> 1:09:03.400 what other like what other ideas were you pursuing to 1:09:03.400 --> 1:09:06.040 to make a living? And then also what does it 1:09:06.080 --> 1:09:07.880 mean to spear fish for a living? Like, just tell 1:09:08.000 --> 1:09:10.880 give people a glimpse of what you're not selling fish, right, 1:09:10.920 --> 1:09:13.400 So so give people a glimpse of what that looks like. Yeah, 1:09:13.479 --> 1:09:16.479 well so the other ideas. I mean, I knew I 1:09:16.520 --> 1:09:18.840 liked cooking, and I knew I liked food, so I 1:09:18.880 --> 1:09:21.280 got a degree in culinary arts and I was working 1:09:21.320 --> 1:09:24.280 in the restaurant industry. But I was just so bored there, 1:09:24.439 --> 1:09:27.120 Like I just was working with ingredients that meant nothing 1:09:27.160 --> 1:09:29.719 to me that we're flown in from Afar and frozen, 1:09:29.840 --> 1:09:32.160 and I was making the same thing every single night 1:09:32.200 --> 1:09:35.640 and just feeling like this is not creative. Um. I 1:09:35.680 --> 1:09:38.360 also can I also tried to, you know, do art 1:09:38.400 --> 1:09:41.240 for a while, and I really enjoyed that because it 1:09:41.320 --> 1:09:44.479 gave me the freedom to go spear fishing. Um. But 1:09:44.560 --> 1:09:47.840 I really barely got by on selling paintings. That was 1:09:47.960 --> 1:09:52.120 very hard. Um. And I never really knew how you 1:09:52.160 --> 1:09:54.920 would make money as a spear fisher because I wasn't 1:09:54.920 --> 1:09:58.040 a commercial fisher. UM. I just knew that's what I 1:09:58.120 --> 1:10:01.320 wanted to do. I didn't even the approach it as 1:10:01.320 --> 1:10:03.599 a career. I just looked at like, if I can 1:10:03.800 --> 1:10:07.400 paint paintings and sell them so that when the weather 1:10:07.479 --> 1:10:09.720 is nice, I can get up and go, that's a 1:10:09.760 --> 1:10:12.200 win for me if I can survive just doing this. 1:10:12.320 --> 1:10:15.920 But eventually, um, I got better and better at it. 1:10:15.960 --> 1:10:18.679 I ended up winning the national championships and started getting 1:10:18.720 --> 1:10:22.800 attention for it, and then um it just ended up 1:10:22.840 --> 1:10:27.280 turning into a career where people wanted me to, you know, 1:10:27.560 --> 1:10:30.479 use their gear, use their their products, and give it 1:10:30.520 --> 1:10:33.559 a try and get photos with it. And took a 1:10:33.600 --> 1:10:36.799 long time, but like I would say, ten years after 1:10:36.840 --> 1:10:40.360 doing that, I finally started realizing that everybody was making 1:10:40.400 --> 1:10:42.920 money off of me, and I could probably start asking 1:10:42.960 --> 1:10:45.760 to get paid for it. Yeah, I got Can you 1:10:45.800 --> 1:10:50.799 explain a little bit the um where free diving plays 1:10:50.840 --> 1:10:55.800 into spear fishing and your challenges and emergen like going 1:10:55.840 --> 1:10:59.840 into that world free diving is how you spear fish. 1:11:00.000 --> 1:11:03.240 I know that you can definitely do it on scuba 1:11:03.280 --> 1:11:06.599 and do it with tanks, but I find it just 1:11:07.439 --> 1:11:11.280 so much more in tune to just hold your breath 1:11:12.040 --> 1:11:16.200 and go down and hunt like that because you're not 1:11:16.520 --> 1:11:18.920 you're not making all these bubbles and you're not scaring 1:11:18.960 --> 1:11:22.120 fish away like that, and there's not I just feel 1:11:22.160 --> 1:11:24.160 like it just makes the most sense to go down 1:11:24.160 --> 1:11:26.400 on a single breath of air and and try and 1:11:26.439 --> 1:11:32.080 get this done. Um. It's definitely challenging, but um, but 1:11:33.080 --> 1:11:35.080 it makes you more a part of the ocean, and 1:11:35.120 --> 1:11:39.640 I think the animals start to you. You learn to 1:11:39.800 --> 1:11:43.000 move different with that, and it just like it really 1:11:43.040 --> 1:11:47.000 teaches you this finesse that UM is all a part 1:11:47.080 --> 1:11:51.280 of hunting. And when it comes to free diving, I 1:11:51.280 --> 1:11:54.160 mean there's there's so many challenges that come with it. 1:11:54.200 --> 1:11:57.480 And I think just taking that drop into the unknown 1:11:58.080 --> 1:12:02.519 and just leaving air behind and getting further and further 1:12:02.560 --> 1:12:07.120 away from it, UM and then just trying to just 1:12:07.160 --> 1:12:11.519 trying to figure things out with this with this time limit, 1:12:11.640 --> 1:12:15.519 you know, trying to trying to understand things and stock things. 1:12:15.560 --> 1:12:17.920 And if you could just stay down there forever, it 1:12:17.920 --> 1:12:20.160 would be a lot easier. But the thing is that 1:12:20.200 --> 1:12:24.400 you always you always gotta go, and so it's UM, 1:12:24.439 --> 1:12:28.880 it's definitely challenging. How long can you How long can 1:12:28.880 --> 1:12:31.960 you hold your breath underwater? The longest I've ever held 1:12:32.000 --> 1:12:35.760 it underwater was four minutes or forty five seconds, But 1:12:35.920 --> 1:12:40.479 that wasn't like actively hunting at all. When I'm actively hunting, 1:12:40.520 --> 1:12:43.240 it's like I try and keep it around two minutes. 1:12:43.280 --> 1:12:47.360 And the main reason why is because you have to 1:12:47.400 --> 1:12:50.640 recover on the surface for twice as long so that 1:12:50.680 --> 1:12:55.800 you don't get hypoxic and blackout. And true, if you 1:12:55.840 --> 1:12:57.519 hold your bath for two minutes, you have to recover 1:12:57.600 --> 1:13:01.959 for four minutes. That's a long time stay on the surface. Um, 1:13:02.000 --> 1:13:04.000 and I wouldn't want that to be any longer. So 1:13:04.320 --> 1:13:06.360 I also feel like if I can't bring a fish 1:13:06.439 --> 1:13:09.160 in to me within like a minute and a half, 1:13:09.760 --> 1:13:13.200 I should probably try a different technique and try a 1:13:13.200 --> 1:13:15.679 different strategy rather than just try and wait it out. 1:13:16.240 --> 1:13:21.360 And what's the deepest you've dove, And what's the normal 1:13:21.439 --> 1:13:24.960 what do you consider like a normal comfortable maximum diving depth? 1:13:25.360 --> 1:13:28.200 The deepest I dove was a hundred and fifty nine 1:13:28.240 --> 1:13:30.720 ft and that was just like, oh, I want to 1:13:30.760 --> 1:13:34.160 see if I can go touch the bottom and come back. 1:13:34.240 --> 1:13:36.479 And that's all I did, just turn and burn. But 1:13:36.560 --> 1:13:38.840 it was just neat to be down that deep and 1:13:38.880 --> 1:13:43.800 feel that pressure. Um. But I would say comfortable. I mean, 1:13:44.640 --> 1:13:47.679 like yesterday's diving, we were hitting the bottom at about 1:13:47.760 --> 1:13:52.680 seventy five and watch you go down and lay on 1:13:52.760 --> 1:14:00.240 the bottom as a couple, and the water so clear 1:14:00.280 --> 1:14:03.400 you can see it from the surface. Steve and I 1:14:03.479 --> 1:14:07.559 as your support crew on the surface. Yeah, we go 1:14:07.560 --> 1:14:09.800 out of those like so, swim straight down seventy five 1:14:09.800 --> 1:14:12.040 ft of water, lay on the bottom, frown how long 1:14:12.560 --> 1:14:14.479 and what event? Just so cool to shoot one of 1:14:14.479 --> 1:14:18.320 those big cuckus. So but it's amazing. Yeah, And that's 1:14:18.320 --> 1:14:21.640 the thing too, It's like you you know, it's one 1:14:21.680 --> 1:14:23.800 thing to go down to seventy five ft and hang out, 1:14:23.920 --> 1:14:27.479 but you're not just seventy five and a big shark 1:14:27.680 --> 1:14:30.960 swims up to you, which we saw that yesterday, and 1:14:31.040 --> 1:14:33.639 like that can really take a lot of oxygen out 1:14:33.880 --> 1:14:36.160 of you right there is just having that reaction of 1:14:36.240 --> 1:14:42.360 fear um or you shule burn oxygen anytime you get flustered, 1:14:42.960 --> 1:14:47.360 Um that burns a lot of oxygen. And or having 1:14:47.520 --> 1:14:50.840 if I shot a fish and it ends up fighting me, 1:14:51.000 --> 1:14:53.320 ends up tangling on a rock. You know, all of 1:14:53.360 --> 1:14:57.360 that at depth can just wipe you out. So it's 1:14:57.479 --> 1:15:03.000 um something you gotta do carefully, can you uh you 1:15:03.040 --> 1:15:05.640 know you said if you can't bring a fish in 1:15:06.400 --> 1:15:08.519 within a minute and a half, but you don't have 1:15:09.240 --> 1:15:12.439 you're not like throwing lures or bait or anything to 1:15:12.479 --> 1:15:15.960 bring fish in, because can you explain what bringing fish 1:15:16.000 --> 1:15:19.439 in means totally, and it was so fun to watch 1:15:19.479 --> 1:15:21.960 you both learned that over the past few days. Is 1:15:22.000 --> 1:15:25.439 because a lot of people think that to hunt to fish, 1:15:25.479 --> 1:15:27.680 you know, just hold your breath in, swim up to 1:15:27.720 --> 1:15:32.120 a fish, and go shoot it. At some times Chester 1:15:32.360 --> 1:15:36.400 is just on them. They know he's on them. Sometimes 1:15:36.400 --> 1:15:40.599 that might work and he's just on them. But most 1:15:40.640 --> 1:15:44.640 of the time, like with smart fish or you know, 1:15:45.040 --> 1:15:48.000 really nice fish that you want to get, um, that's 1:15:48.600 --> 1:15:50.800 they're not going to stand for that. That you can't 1:15:50.800 --> 1:15:53.600 outswim a fish, and so if you start swimming towards it, 1:15:53.600 --> 1:15:56.680 they're just gonna outswim you and go away. Um. And 1:15:56.720 --> 1:16:00.080 so my strategy is I just I go to a 1:16:00.120 --> 1:16:02.720 bottom and and I know they can see me. It's 1:16:02.760 --> 1:16:05.880 not like it's not like I really am trying not 1:16:05.920 --> 1:16:07.840 to let them see me. I actually want them to 1:16:07.920 --> 1:16:10.599 see me. And I land on the bottom. But then 1:16:10.640 --> 1:16:12.880 that's when I just try and I try to melt 1:16:12.960 --> 1:16:15.759 into the bottom. I try and just mold my body 1:16:15.840 --> 1:16:18.960 around wherever I'm lying, if it's on a rock or 1:16:19.000 --> 1:16:21.040 in a sand pocket, I try and just become a 1:16:21.080 --> 1:16:24.080 part of that environment so that they see this creature 1:16:24.200 --> 1:16:27.200 come down and then they kind of see it disappear 1:16:27.600 --> 1:16:30.679 because that's going to peak their curiosity. That's gonna make 1:16:30.760 --> 1:16:33.439 them want to see what was that, you know. And 1:16:33.439 --> 1:16:36.840 and then I hide my eyes. That's important because the 1:16:36.840 --> 1:16:40.080 minute they see my big old eyeball is looking at them, 1:16:40.240 --> 1:16:42.479 that can really freak them out. So if I just 1:16:42.560 --> 1:16:45.240 keep hiding my eyes, they'll keep wanting to see them 1:16:45.240 --> 1:16:47.760 because I feel like when you make eye contact, that's 1:16:47.760 --> 1:16:51.800 like a part of recognizing, you know, And so so 1:16:51.920 --> 1:16:53.679 I don't want them to see my eyes. I'm always 1:16:53.680 --> 1:16:55.360 trying to hide my eyes, so I'm always kind of 1:16:55.360 --> 1:16:58.240 turning away, and it makes it like this passive or 1:16:58.320 --> 1:17:02.519 shy looking body language, and that can definitely bring them in. 1:17:02.560 --> 1:17:05.720 But there's also just tricks of fluffing sand, you know, 1:17:05.840 --> 1:17:08.519 just taking sand and just throwing up clouds of sand. Again, 1:17:08.920 --> 1:17:11.400 even that I want to do it so gently because 1:17:11.400 --> 1:17:13.680 I don't want to burn out my energy, and just 1:17:13.920 --> 1:17:16.760 this motion of fluffing sand, there's sometimes where I'm like, oh, 1:17:17.000 --> 1:17:20.519 that was a little too powerful, you know, like calm 1:17:20.560 --> 1:17:23.200 it down, Kimmy, Like, don't waste your energy. But so 1:17:23.280 --> 1:17:27.120 you want to use the least amount of energy possible 1:17:28.280 --> 1:17:30.479 to do things like fluff sand or just to kind 1:17:30.479 --> 1:17:34.000 of scratch the rock, scratch the coral um, do things 1:17:34.000 --> 1:17:36.960 like that, because all they mimic things. You know, the 1:17:37.000 --> 1:17:40.160 sand it mimics when a stingray is feeding at the 1:17:40.200 --> 1:17:43.639 bottom because its wings are flapping and it's fluffing sand 1:17:43.680 --> 1:17:47.160 and it's overturning food and nutrients that fish come in 1:17:47.160 --> 1:17:49.760 and want to eat, so it's mimicking that. Or if 1:17:49.760 --> 1:17:52.280 you like scratch rocks together, mimics fish that eat off 1:17:52.320 --> 1:17:55.120 the rocks, and and so all that kind of stuff 1:17:55.160 --> 1:17:58.920 will also help bring fish into you. When you're saying 1:17:58.920 --> 1:18:03.080 that you don't care about that, you'll come down. You're 1:18:03.200 --> 1:18:07.400 you're not trying to like hide your arrival, right if 1:18:07.439 --> 1:18:09.439 you were just in the last couple of days, when 1:18:09.439 --> 1:18:12.280 you're fishing together, if you're looking down and you're you're 1:18:12.320 --> 1:18:18.439 looking down ut below you a surgeon fish, you don't um, 1:18:18.720 --> 1:18:22.000 I'm sorry, looking down on a parrot fish. Give me 1:18:22.040 --> 1:18:27.920 the word um. So you don't think you're gonna drop 1:18:27.960 --> 1:18:30.760 down way over here and then creep in there. You're 1:18:30.800 --> 1:18:32.559 just like, I'm just here and I'm gonna melt to 1:18:32.560 --> 1:18:34.200 the bottom and I'm not even gonna try to like, 1:18:34.880 --> 1:18:36.880 you can do both. You can? You do try to 1:18:36.920 --> 1:18:39.680 stalk in? Um, you do, try to sneak up on. 1:18:40.160 --> 1:18:43.000 We didn't do too much of that these past few days, 1:18:43.040 --> 1:18:48.040 but I definitely do that well. Sometimes drop in one 1:18:48.160 --> 1:18:52.559 area and then just slither slither, you know, around the 1:18:52.640 --> 1:18:55.320 rocks and creep in. I try. I try what I'm 1:18:55.360 --> 1:18:56.920 on the bottom. I trying not to kick too much, 1:18:56.960 --> 1:18:59.559 so if I can just kind of pull myself forward, Um, 1:18:59.560 --> 1:19:02.479 I'll use my hands and do that. Um. But yeah, 1:19:02.520 --> 1:19:05.080 a lot of times I do. I stay low and 1:19:05.160 --> 1:19:07.960 I creep in. Does it work too? Because I always 1:19:07.960 --> 1:19:09.720 I don't think I ever did it successfully? But does 1:19:09.760 --> 1:19:11.639 it work? To be like the fish goes behind a rock, 1:19:11.800 --> 1:19:14.679 you like, now's my chance? Yeah, so you can really 1:19:14.680 --> 1:19:16.519 like get away with something. He doesn't know what went 1:19:16.560 --> 1:19:19.760 on thinking I was going to do that, but I 1:19:19.800 --> 1:19:22.040 don't know that I did that. Yeah. I mean it's 1:19:22.120 --> 1:19:24.240 it's trickier than you think because a lot of times 1:19:24.240 --> 1:19:26.479 they're onto you and they're going behind that rock to 1:19:26.560 --> 1:19:28.719 make you think they're coming around, and they're just digging 1:19:28.720 --> 1:19:30.880 out the other way. But every once in a while 1:19:31.000 --> 1:19:33.920 you can find one that's just not quite paying attention 1:19:33.960 --> 1:19:37.360 to you and you can see oh and definitely once 1:19:37.400 --> 1:19:39.559 you see them tuck away where they can't see you, 1:19:39.960 --> 1:19:41.839 that's when you make your move, and you make it quickly. 1:19:42.000 --> 1:19:46.240 If they're not looking, you move fast. I think it's 1:19:46.280 --> 1:19:51.799 hard to describe. So like if if you're a hunter, 1:19:52.680 --> 1:19:56.240 archery or rifle really in a place where you spot 1:19:56.240 --> 1:20:00.680 in stock game. The what we were hunt fish in 1:20:01.600 --> 1:20:05.839 was a very spot and stockable zone. So there's lots 1:20:06.080 --> 1:20:11.280 of variation and the landscape. There's drops, there's rises, there's 1:20:11.360 --> 1:20:16.320 there's little passes in the rocks, there's um lots of 1:20:16.360 --> 1:20:22.479 opportunity to to get behind things and and try to creep. 1:20:23.160 --> 1:20:27.080 But it's so it's like looking through spotting scope when 1:20:27.120 --> 1:20:30.520 you're looking at it from the surface, um through your goggles, 1:20:30.920 --> 1:20:34.120 things get flat and then when you get down on 1:20:34.160 --> 1:20:38.160 the bottom, it's amazing how all this how big it is, 1:20:38.200 --> 1:20:44.640 how big the terrain is um and it just I 1:20:44.680 --> 1:20:47.720 have like a finite finite amount of drops in me 1:20:47.840 --> 1:20:50.960 like breaking from the surface and getting on bottom, and 1:20:51.320 --> 1:20:53.559 you're trying to squeeze all the knowledge out of all 1:20:53.600 --> 1:20:56.400 of those drops to be more effective on your next one. 1:20:57.320 --> 1:21:01.599 But it's it's amazing when you get that the idea 1:21:01.640 --> 1:21:06.960 of how big that bottom topography is, and then it's like, 1:21:07.080 --> 1:21:09.519 oh god, how do I keep track of where that was? 1:21:10.040 --> 1:21:12.559 It's amazing to even hear you say that, because I 1:21:12.560 --> 1:21:17.000 feel like most people beginning at diving they don't even 1:21:17.160 --> 1:21:20.360 get that, Like they don't even get it at all, 1:21:20.680 --> 1:21:24.080 Like they're so fixated on the fact that they see 1:21:24.080 --> 1:21:26.240 a fish or they have to hold their breath and there. 1:21:26.520 --> 1:21:30.240 It's just the way that you guys were able to 1:21:30.439 --> 1:21:35.360 actually take the time to read the environment. It's it's 1:21:35.400 --> 1:21:37.920 it's so cool. It really just showed me how much 1:21:38.240 --> 1:21:42.160 hunting on land has to cross over because that's everything, 1:21:42.439 --> 1:21:44.639 you know. It's like that time when you're just like 1:21:45.360 --> 1:21:47.360 on the surface kind of checking out what you can 1:21:47.360 --> 1:21:51.599 see below and um and planning your job, planning like 1:21:51.960 --> 1:21:54.880 how you're going to approach, where you're gonna land, what 1:21:55.040 --> 1:21:57.240 shadows you're going to use, what structure you're gonna use 1:21:57.240 --> 1:22:02.000 In one like you have to pay attention because some 1:22:02.080 --> 1:22:04.040 rocks are way too big where if you land right 1:22:04.080 --> 1:22:05.599 in front of them, think it's a good hiding place, 1:22:05.640 --> 1:22:08.439 but you just blocked out your vision completely. It does 1:22:08.479 --> 1:22:10.639 you know, good? You know, and you guys are really 1:22:10.720 --> 1:22:15.679 choosing good approaches and good hiding places. Yea. And in lhunting, 1:22:15.720 --> 1:22:19.240 I'd always tell people that's a good spot to view nature, 1:22:19.800 --> 1:22:24.160 but we're here to kill nature. Like when you bear 1:22:24.240 --> 1:22:26.479 yourself into a treat and then you realize that there's 1:22:26.520 --> 1:22:28.679 nothing you can do. It's like a good good job 1:22:29.960 --> 1:22:32.800 you kind of laid out when you were laying out 1:22:32.800 --> 1:22:35.680 our our trip. I knew we had a few days. Um, 1:22:35.760 --> 1:22:38.160 you laid out a sort of progression for us, and 1:22:38.200 --> 1:22:40.679 it was a progression in terms of what we were after, 1:22:40.960 --> 1:22:45.360 how um, the conditions we were after it in the 1:22:45.400 --> 1:22:51.120 equipment we used. Can you walk through that progression? Definitely? 1:22:51.160 --> 1:22:54.400 And I really respect that you guys actually did it 1:22:54.479 --> 1:22:58.400 in that way where we started off, you know, basically 1:23:00.320 --> 1:23:03.840 with three prongs, you know, looking looking under rocks, looking 1:23:03.840 --> 1:23:06.439 for a small fry fish that that you really got 1:23:06.439 --> 1:23:08.800 to get close to you and m with a three 1:23:08.800 --> 1:23:12.120 prong a simple poll spear. There's no sugar mechanism, nothing 1:23:12.160 --> 1:23:14.800 like that. Just a rubber band on one end and 1:23:14.840 --> 1:23:17.360 three prongs on the other. And it's all human power. 1:23:17.479 --> 1:23:20.840 You have to hold it to keep it cocked. And um, 1:23:20.920 --> 1:23:22.840 you really have to get close to your prey, like 1:23:22.960 --> 1:23:25.519 you have to sometimes just get in there, let your 1:23:25.520 --> 1:23:28.080 eyes are I think it isn't. And if you have 1:23:28.160 --> 1:23:30.400 like an eight foot poll spear, what do you think 1:23:30.400 --> 1:23:33.160 it is in inches? I mean you're close close? Oh yeah, 1:23:33.240 --> 1:23:36.720 i'd say, I mean I wouldn't. I wouldn't take a 1:23:36.760 --> 1:23:39.920 shot more than three ft away. That would be really far, 1:23:40.320 --> 1:23:42.360 really far. Yeah. I just say a lot of that 1:23:42.400 --> 1:23:45.320 stuff is I feel like you're you're eighteen inches away 1:23:45.320 --> 1:23:48.439 from it. Yeah, even closer. Yeah, like the spear point 1:23:48.479 --> 1:23:51.759 is is close. It's not even not even really like aiming. 1:23:51.760 --> 1:23:56.599 You're kind of you're kind of pinning and pointing with 1:23:56.680 --> 1:24:00.000 your finger. You would be making them very uncomfortable. You've 1:24:00.080 --> 1:24:03.599 in their personal's face. That's good. But what I like 1:24:03.800 --> 1:24:07.000 about that is that you have to get that close 1:24:07.040 --> 1:24:09.920 to your prey and then you your prey. You know, 1:24:09.960 --> 1:24:13.800 these little fish they dart, they dart back and forth. Yeah, 1:24:14.040 --> 1:24:16.880 and and then it really tests like kind of your 1:24:16.920 --> 1:24:20.200 instincts and your reactions because the minute you let go 1:24:20.720 --> 1:24:23.719 of that spirit and let it fly, like you're committing 1:24:23.760 --> 1:24:26.960 to you know, to hitting that fish. And so you're 1:24:27.040 --> 1:24:30.280 really kind of leading the fish where you think it's 1:24:30.280 --> 1:24:33.519 gonna go, or just like you know, letting go when 1:24:33.520 --> 1:24:36.800 you think they're gonna stop. And and then when you 1:24:36.880 --> 1:24:39.960 do that, it's not over. Like it's just a three 1:24:39.960 --> 1:24:42.960 prong and so oftentimes you gotta then pin your fish 1:24:43.280 --> 1:24:45.519 and pounce like a cat. And so I just think, 1:24:45.600 --> 1:24:51.160 like just really honing those like responses, those like quick 1:24:51.479 --> 1:24:56.520 reactions are are so good to just hone your overall 1:24:56.880 --> 1:25:00.719 hunting vibe. But then the next step what we after 1:25:00.800 --> 1:25:04.000 three prongings, we did get spear guns and trying to 1:25:04.080 --> 1:25:09.760 hold different technique which is so much less aggressive you know, 1:25:09.840 --> 1:25:13.760 where it's stalking and it's waiting. And it doesn't mean 1:25:13.800 --> 1:25:18.280 it's at all easier because it's just a different technique, um, 1:25:18.320 --> 1:25:23.000 but I think that it's a really good progression to 1:25:23.120 --> 1:25:27.040 have to kind of start off like super primitive and 1:25:27.160 --> 1:25:32.200 just like instincts and jumping and you know and doing 1:25:32.240 --> 1:25:34.800 whatever you can throwing yourself at those fish. Really and 1:25:34.800 --> 1:25:37.120 you guys were throwing yourself on dry reef at some points, 1:25:37.240 --> 1:25:40.479 you know, um to then having to switch it and 1:25:40.520 --> 1:25:46.240 go to this like much more stealthy, much more quiet, 1:25:46.720 --> 1:25:51.720 much like less movement um type of hunting, and the 1:25:51.720 --> 1:25:56.840 spear gun will obviously give you more range, but um, 1:25:56.880 --> 1:25:59.439 I think that's just a really good way to keep 1:25:59.479 --> 1:26:03.320 stepping it up. Then, So go on to the next 1:26:04.520 --> 1:26:06.800 stage though, And also, can you help me with the 1:26:06.920 --> 1:26:08.920 what what the hell is that? Because we grew up 1:26:09.320 --> 1:26:10.840 when I was ten years old, I came to Hawaii 1:26:10.840 --> 1:26:12.959 and my family, my dad had He was a salesman, 1:26:13.000 --> 1:26:16.240 like sold insurance, and he sold enough insurance like win 1:26:16.320 --> 1:26:19.400 a trip through Metropolitan Life. I don't know if that's 1:26:19.400 --> 1:26:22.720 even still a company. He sold enough insurance to win 1:26:22.760 --> 1:26:24.599 a trip to Hawaii. So when I was Tammy came 1:26:24.640 --> 1:26:28.880 to Hawaiian he bought us a spear and I remember 1:26:28.880 --> 1:26:30.960 my brother coming in and had a giant, puffed up 1:26:30.960 --> 1:26:33.439 puffer fish on the end of that thing. But we 1:26:33.520 --> 1:26:35.680 took it home with us and realized that it was 1:26:35.800 --> 1:26:38.880 very effective on blue gills, but very illegal, and we 1:26:38.920 --> 1:26:43.240 grew up calling it the Hawaiian sling. But that's not 1:26:43.280 --> 1:26:46.000 what it is. It's I mean, people call it that 1:26:46.080 --> 1:26:48.800 all the time, and when they do, I know that 1:26:49.040 --> 1:26:54.080 they're referring to a three pronged post bear. But Hawaiian 1:26:54.080 --> 1:26:57.919 slings are a little different because they're more like these 1:26:58.120 --> 1:27:01.360 these old style like hinge guys that would have shafts 1:27:01.360 --> 1:27:04.840 that would just like free fly like bow and arrow 1:27:04.920 --> 1:27:10.160 kind and hit your fish. Um and and and I yeah, 1:27:10.240 --> 1:27:14.400 but so a three prong isn't really necessarily it's really 1:27:15.120 --> 1:27:17.000 the term as a pole spear. And it has a 1:27:17.040 --> 1:27:18.880 three pronged head on it. Yes, it's a poll spear. 1:27:20.240 --> 1:27:22.040 And then talk a little bit about the different species 1:27:22.080 --> 1:27:26.160 we were after. So we started off going after um 1:27:26.360 --> 1:27:30.559 manpachi um which live in the holes and have big guys. 1:27:30.600 --> 1:27:34.360 That's what the three prong and cole is on surgeon 1:27:34.479 --> 1:27:38.200 fish um. But then we then we moved up and 1:27:38.240 --> 1:27:40.920 we said, okay, today our goal is going to be 1:27:41.200 --> 1:27:45.479 parrot fish, who and and para fisher are tough to 1:27:45.520 --> 1:27:49.639 shoot in Hawaii. There's something where a lot of other 1:27:49.680 --> 1:27:52.280 species are gonna kind of come in and you gotta 1:27:52.400 --> 1:27:54.640 let them come and you just gotta wait and and 1:27:54.680 --> 1:27:56.080 if you take a shot at any of them, the 1:27:56.120 --> 1:27:57.680 parrot fish will go away. So you just kind of 1:27:57.680 --> 1:27:59.439 have to wait and pass and wait and pass. And 1:27:59.439 --> 1:28:03.080 that parrot fish well eventually maybe come in. But even 1:28:03.120 --> 1:28:07.280 the way that they swim, it's like it's something that 1:28:07.400 --> 1:28:11.280 um it isn't always the easiest to track, especially i'd 1:28:11.320 --> 1:28:15.240 say in shallower waters, like swinging a gun around in 1:28:15.280 --> 1:28:20.040 the shallows, it just um, it gets a little more difficult. 1:28:20.479 --> 1:28:24.599 And so yeah, we went after parrot fish and um. 1:28:24.680 --> 1:28:27.599 And then after we accomplished that, then we went after 1:28:28.439 --> 1:28:32.959 after job fish in the deep. Explain that whole process, 1:28:33.040 --> 1:28:35.479 because that was kind of interesting. Wasn't that fine? It 1:28:35.600 --> 1:28:39.200 was just so with that we went out. We went 1:28:39.200 --> 1:28:41.400 out to this drop off. We went out to like 1:28:41.479 --> 1:28:45.080 this sixty ft ledge that drops off into the blue 1:28:45.320 --> 1:28:49.479 and um, and that's a really good place to get 1:28:49.560 --> 1:28:51.559 job fish or or how we call them, you know 1:28:51.680 --> 1:28:56.479 uku in Hawaii, um gray snappers. And what we did 1:28:56.520 --> 1:29:00.280 we we brought out some bait and just started breaking 1:29:00.280 --> 1:29:02.439 off pieces and letting them fall to the bottom. And 1:29:02.560 --> 1:29:06.280 our goal was to get the uku to leave the 1:29:06.320 --> 1:29:10.280 bottom and come up and start eating the chum so 1:29:10.360 --> 1:29:12.960 that you guys say, just go down and shoot him 1:29:12.960 --> 1:29:15.960 from the surface shoodn't below the surface. That was that 1:29:16.040 --> 1:29:17.519 was the goal. On when it was amazing that we 1:29:17.600 --> 1:29:21.040 actually did get to see that. But they get smart 1:29:21.120 --> 1:29:22.920 so fast. I have to say, this is where like 1:29:22.960 --> 1:29:28.040 your calm, confident explanation of what was going to happen 1:29:28.320 --> 1:29:34.599 at the point may have um maybe cost us one 1:29:34.760 --> 1:29:39.000 encounter because it was like, Okay, so what's gonna happen 1:29:39.040 --> 1:29:41.479 is we're gonna go out, We're gonna start dropping little 1:29:41.520 --> 1:29:45.920 bits of chum these sardines, and then the trigger fish 1:29:45.960 --> 1:29:48.720 are gonna come in, and then some other fish are 1:29:48.720 --> 1:29:51.680 going to come in, and then the gray snappers going 1:29:51.720 --> 1:29:54.040 to kind of come in, and then then they're gonna 1:29:54.080 --> 1:29:56.639 get kind of competitive, and then they're gonna start eating 1:29:56.720 --> 1:29:59.920 up the chain. And it just like read out exact 1:30:00.040 --> 1:30:02.840 clear that way, like in a book, like and I 1:30:02.920 --> 1:30:05.160 think Steve and I were both sitting there like okay, 1:30:05.160 --> 1:30:07.000 so now the snapper are here, So what's going to 1:30:07.080 --> 1:30:09.559 happen in no time? And I was like, holy man, 1:30:09.600 --> 1:30:12.840 we're gonna get a lot of But I also said, 1:30:13.320 --> 1:30:15.080 I also said, and then they're going to go away, 1:30:15.439 --> 1:30:17.519 and then they're gonna get smart, Like I also said, 1:30:17.600 --> 1:30:20.519 like they're gonna come up, they're gonna do this, but 1:30:20.640 --> 1:30:26.080 after a while, like they're gonna get smart. And but yeah, 1:30:26.240 --> 1:30:28.360 that really happened fast. But yeah, it was one of 1:30:28.880 --> 1:30:32.840 those moments where when that big there's two of them, 1:30:32.840 --> 1:30:34.879 but one was just extra big when when I started 1:30:34.920 --> 1:30:37.800 coming up and doing its thing in like fifteen feet 1:30:37.800 --> 1:30:41.160 of water. Like if I could have been whispering in 1:30:41.200 --> 1:30:43.240 your ear, I would have just been saying, go go, go, 1:30:43.240 --> 1:30:45.639 go go. But you know, I don't want to freak 1:30:45.680 --> 1:30:51.200 you out. It's also new and it's hard to respond, right. Well, 1:30:51.240 --> 1:30:55.080 it's it's it's I mean, I have only recently dabbled 1:30:55.400 --> 1:30:59.360 in bow hunting, and I freeze sometimes, you know, when 1:30:59.360 --> 1:31:02.519 the opportunity is there. But the thing about spear fishing 1:31:03.360 --> 1:31:05.720 is that you also have to hold your breath, you know, 1:31:05.960 --> 1:31:08.240 And that's like, I feel like a whole another level 1:31:08.320 --> 1:31:12.120 when you get excited and you just realize like, oh 1:31:12.160 --> 1:31:14.720 my gosh, there's a fish. Okay, I gotta go and 1:31:14.760 --> 1:31:17.040 I gotta get ready, But then you actually have to 1:31:17.080 --> 1:31:21.120 think about leaving this beautiful thing called air. That really 1:31:21.640 --> 1:31:25.200 it's nice when you're kind of excited and you know, flustered, 1:31:25.360 --> 1:31:29.320 it's nice to breathe. Um. So it is a lot 1:31:29.439 --> 1:31:33.920 too to go for it. But um but yeah, there's 1:31:33.920 --> 1:31:37.400 some opportunities where it's like, you know, if you're hunting 1:31:37.400 --> 1:31:39.439 the reef and you see that parrot fish, where yeah, 1:31:39.479 --> 1:31:41.840 you can wait, you can plant you can wait till 1:31:41.880 --> 1:31:44.680 you're ready, and then the opportunities like yesterday, when that 1:31:44.720 --> 1:31:47.559 fish comes up from the depth, it's like, nope, sorry, 1:31:47.560 --> 1:31:49.960 you gotta some way. It's gotta go now. You don't 1:31:50.000 --> 1:31:56.280 have time. You just I think it warrant, like we 1:31:56.320 --> 1:32:00.360 have to bring up just how clear the the water 1:32:00.479 --> 1:32:02.160 so clear, it's it's kind of gets not there. I 1:32:02.200 --> 1:32:03.879 mean it is, but it's kind of it's not there. 1:32:03.920 --> 1:32:05.800 But you can be at the surface where we were 1:32:05.840 --> 1:32:09.679 in sevent water when you can see the rocks, you're 1:32:09.720 --> 1:32:11.760 you're you're in seventy five ft of water, but you're 1:32:11.800 --> 1:32:14.160 looking and if a fish did the right thing on 1:32:14.240 --> 1:32:16.559 the bottom, you would see it there. I mean, there's 1:32:16.560 --> 1:32:19.720 things you're gonna miss, but you could like feasibly see it. 1:32:19.760 --> 1:32:21.960 And it was overcast, so I can only imagine it 1:32:22.000 --> 1:32:24.400 feels full sun what you see. But you can see 1:32:24.479 --> 1:32:28.880 down that deep and Kimmy is taking anchovies right and 1:32:28.880 --> 1:32:30.960 you're breaking them in a half or breaking them in thirds, 1:32:31.720 --> 1:32:34.280 and they fall very slowly. They kind of create like 1:32:34.320 --> 1:32:38.519 a slimy cloud of scales. So you got to move 1:32:38.560 --> 1:32:41.240 off to the side because if you're looking down, like 1:32:41.280 --> 1:32:43.200 if you imagine you're in the water and you're dropping 1:32:43.240 --> 1:32:45.800 something that's falling slowly. If you're looking down the sort 1:32:45.840 --> 1:32:49.200 of shaft created by its descent, there's a lot of 1:32:49.240 --> 1:32:53.120 oil and scale which obscures your vision, so you want 1:32:53.120 --> 1:32:55.519 to you move off to the side, and then you're 1:32:55.560 --> 1:32:59.759 kind of you're you're peering in at this the cylinder 1:33:00.320 --> 1:33:04.479 stuff dropping um. And when something first shows up at 1:33:04.520 --> 1:33:08.960 the bottom, it's like when you hear I always talk 1:33:08.960 --> 1:33:11.080 about this. It's like if you hear a turkey gobble 1:33:11.160 --> 1:33:13.720 way off, or you hear it vehicle way off. You 1:33:14.080 --> 1:33:16.439 know it's there, but you don't. You look to your 1:33:16.479 --> 1:33:20.560 buddy to be like, did I just hear that? And 1:33:20.640 --> 1:33:24.080 the first fish you see, I'm like, you know, it 1:33:24.160 --> 1:33:28.519 catches you where you think you're hallucinating, And I remember Cali, 1:33:28.640 --> 1:33:30.400 like you saw one and I couldn't see it, and 1:33:30.400 --> 1:33:32.200 it's frustrating, but also in there it is. And then 1:33:32.320 --> 1:33:35.599 you guys are so good at shapes. I don't even 1:33:35.560 --> 1:33:37.719 know what the hell I'm looking at. When those sharks 1:33:37.760 --> 1:33:40.200 showed up, I'm like, hey, I know that fish, but 1:33:40.240 --> 1:33:41.559 I was like a lot of times you're like, I 1:33:41.560 --> 1:33:43.960 don't know, man, And then i'd get all excited about 1:33:43.960 --> 1:33:46.760 a shape and you you kind of like be like, 1:33:46.840 --> 1:33:49.680 that's not the right shape. And so the one thing 1:33:49.720 --> 1:33:51.640 that did show up that I like the second just 1:33:51.680 --> 1:33:55.040 because my very limited ocean experience, a tuna showed up 1:33:55.040 --> 1:33:59.280 in there and I was like, you know, and you 1:33:59.280 --> 1:34:06.599 were very much yeah that that was incredible. The sky 1:34:08.040 --> 1:34:12.200 and he just in there having his day so different 1:34:12.479 --> 1:34:15.679 from the other fish, Like it's almost like there's no fear, 1:34:15.920 --> 1:34:19.160 just bursting and shaking in there and these diagonal patterns 1:34:19.200 --> 1:34:21.439 and just coming right up to us because he's just 1:34:21.520 --> 1:34:25.160 so fast. And I drove, I've dove down to try 1:34:25.200 --> 1:34:27.680 to like and I got down eye level with him 1:34:27.720 --> 1:34:30.080 and this sun I hadn't thought of. But he's moving 1:34:30.120 --> 1:34:34.000 so quickly. The gun I had as a ninety I 1:34:34.000 --> 1:34:36.960 think it's a ninety ninety. What is it? It's a 1:34:37.240 --> 1:34:41.000 ninety shafts, but what is the measurement? I can't remember. 1:34:41.960 --> 1:34:45.879 It is okay, um, the fish is moving so fast 1:34:46.120 --> 1:34:49.080 and the resistance of the water is strong enough you 1:34:49.200 --> 1:34:53.240 can't track it. Like if he comes swinging by, you're 1:34:53.240 --> 1:34:55.160 not It's like you're shooting at a duck where you're 1:34:55.160 --> 1:34:58.160 like swing your shotgun through his line of travel, you 1:34:58.240 --> 1:35:02.320 physically can't move the gun on fast enough to track it, 1:35:02.360 --> 1:35:03.720 and so you're kind of like in this sort of 1:35:03.760 --> 1:35:08.719 intercepting it. And if I had had five minutes of breath, 1:35:08.920 --> 1:35:11.360 I would have gotten a I mean I took a 1:35:11.400 --> 1:35:16.000 hail mary at it. Yeah, that wasn't a hail mary. 1:35:16.080 --> 1:35:19.800 That was every one of us that we were watching you. 1:35:19.960 --> 1:35:21.720 We all thought it was in the bag. And that 1:35:21.920 --> 1:35:24.439 was justin woke up this boy. The first thing you 1:35:24.479 --> 1:35:27.760 said was God, oh my god, I would have been 1:35:27.880 --> 1:35:30.559 so cool if Steve just shot that. Do not like 1:35:30.880 --> 1:35:34.599 because it was that close like it was, that wasn't 1:35:34.680 --> 1:35:37.040 I would not because that's not a hail mary at all. 1:35:37.600 --> 1:35:40.880 That was like, oh, he's gonna get it. Like, but 1:35:40.920 --> 1:35:44.040 they're just so fast that even the people watching it 1:35:44.080 --> 1:35:46.439 happen from a distance, I think it's going to happen, 1:35:46.960 --> 1:35:50.040 and I just didn't, you know, speaking with Rick Smith 1:35:50.120 --> 1:35:54.320 about this situation, he made this comparison, which which is 1:35:54.400 --> 1:35:59.360 kind of right. It's like, oddly enough, the turkey hunting 1:36:00.120 --> 1:36:05.160 of the spear fishing world, where you get down there 1:36:05.880 --> 1:36:08.040 and you get set up in a certain direction for 1:36:08.040 --> 1:36:12.240 this turkey and the turkey's watching you so you can't. 1:36:12.280 --> 1:36:15.000 You can only move your guns so fast right, so 1:36:15.040 --> 1:36:17.760 you can't position yourself even though he's gobl into your 1:36:17.840 --> 1:36:20.240 right now and then to the left right you can 1:36:20.280 --> 1:36:22.840 do like how muchever you get all my situation pointed 1:36:22.880 --> 1:36:26.400 over that way exactly. Yeah, how do you can? You 1:36:26.439 --> 1:36:30.360 guys talk about how you know what the hell sharks 1:36:30.439 --> 1:36:33.080 or what, and then how you know what mood they're 1:36:33.080 --> 1:36:37.280 in and what their purposes are. I mean, I guess 1:36:37.280 --> 1:36:42.479 it's just it's a body language thing where if they 1:36:42.520 --> 1:36:46.639 come in and they're just like swimming slow, they seem calm. 1:36:46.680 --> 1:36:48.960 If their fins are kind of out like the wings 1:36:48.960 --> 1:36:52.040 of an airplane, that's a good sign that the sharks, 1:36:53.120 --> 1:36:56.840 you know, not really gonna attack or do anything to 1:36:56.920 --> 1:37:02.759 eggro Um when they are putting their fins down, putting 1:37:02.800 --> 1:37:05.200 them in a downwards and angle. If they start kind 1:37:05.200 --> 1:37:09.320 of arching their back, if they start um flexing their gills, um, 1:37:09.439 --> 1:37:13.879 that means they're pretty piste. And and if they're moving 1:37:14.320 --> 1:37:18.920 just really erratically and quickly and making these turns, um 1:37:18.960 --> 1:37:24.040 that that is not always a good sign either. Um 1:37:24.080 --> 1:37:29.040 off though sometimes Yeah, is it a competition thing, Yeah, 1:37:29.200 --> 1:37:32.040 it can be, so it can be territorial, it can 1:37:32.080 --> 1:37:37.120 definitely be Um. Some some sharks can just be big bullies, 1:37:37.439 --> 1:37:40.639 you know, and they just see you on their turf 1:37:40.680 --> 1:37:44.840 and they just, um, they just kind of want to 1:37:44.840 --> 1:37:50.000 bully you and um, and sometimes I feel like, yeah, 1:37:50.040 --> 1:37:51.759 they're they're the ones that just are there to steal 1:37:51.760 --> 1:37:54.240 your lunch, you know, so that they're coming in, they're 1:37:54.320 --> 1:37:56.479 checking you out, and they're telling you that they're the boss, 1:37:56.520 --> 1:37:58.160 and then if you shoot a fish, they're going to 1:37:58.280 --> 1:38:00.640 be the ones to take that fish. And still you 1:38:00.800 --> 1:38:04.320 kind of have to face the bully. And so that's 1:38:04.320 --> 1:38:07.720 why even with those, you know, the smaller sharks that 1:38:07.760 --> 1:38:09.760 you kind of just saw me going down there and 1:38:09.840 --> 1:38:12.559 just kind of tapping them, you know, I wasn't wasn't 1:38:12.600 --> 1:38:14.840 hurting them with it, poking them, but I was. I'm 1:38:14.880 --> 1:38:17.320 gonna interject here because that's not quite what I saw, 1:38:19.520 --> 1:38:22.080 because Yeah, from my perspective, was one of the favorite 1:38:22.080 --> 1:38:24.760 things I saw over a couple of days is in 1:38:24.840 --> 1:38:30.520 that you know, chum situation that Steve described very very well. Um, 1:38:30.720 --> 1:38:34.639 two black tip reef sharks came in and we're doing 1:38:34.640 --> 1:38:37.920 their thing, and to me, I saw it very clearly 1:38:38.640 --> 1:38:43.400 as the high school bully in the hallway, right, But 1:38:43.520 --> 1:38:46.600 in this scenario, Kimmy was the bully and she was 1:38:46.640 --> 1:38:49.640 swimming down and the black Tip was kind of like 1:38:50.120 --> 1:38:52.600 mixing around but gradually coming up, and they just like 1:38:52.680 --> 1:38:55.639 passed each other like two kids in the hallway, and 1:38:55.800 --> 1:38:59.040 she just gave that black tip a little elbow shot 1:38:59.280 --> 1:39:07.200 basically close. She kept going shark diverted this. I loved it. 1:39:07.280 --> 1:39:08.800 It was great. I got a shot of that, Like 1:39:08.840 --> 1:39:10.320 she just moved right through it, And I was like, 1:39:10.360 --> 1:39:12.280 did that thing hit her in the head, But she 1:39:12.400 --> 1:39:14.280 just like didn't even it didn't even phase her. She 1:39:14.360 --> 1:39:18.720 just by my head. So that's also why it was 1:39:18.920 --> 1:39:23.000 so close to what were you concerned when you asked 1:39:23.000 --> 1:39:24.759 her about that? I noticed that you asked her about 1:39:24.960 --> 1:39:26.840 how it came up to her face. Were you like 1:39:26.960 --> 1:39:29.519 concerned or you just curious? I was more curious. I 1:39:29.520 --> 1:39:30.960 was like, how close did you get to that thing? 1:39:31.080 --> 1:39:33.200 Because I don't know, I trust her. I have, like 1:39:33.400 --> 1:39:36.360 I feel safer with Kimmy in the water. Obviously she's 1:39:36.360 --> 1:39:39.320 taught me all that, but I have complete confidence in 1:39:39.400 --> 1:39:42.880 Kimmy in those circumstances where I do. I do have 1:39:42.920 --> 1:39:45.599 confidence by myself, but when I'm in the water with Kimmy, 1:39:45.640 --> 1:39:48.840 her knowledge is ridiculous. Even when we saw that bigger Galapagos, 1:39:49.320 --> 1:39:50.760 I was just like, hey, that's something I think I 1:39:50.800 --> 1:39:52.960 pointed to you. Ryan. I'm like, hey, that's something to 1:39:53.000 --> 1:39:56.000 just be aware of because it is decent size and 1:39:56.040 --> 1:39:59.639 it was moving quickly at the bottom of that laughed. Yeah. 1:40:00.160 --> 1:40:02.880 Was I was like, oh, man, like, because that one 1:40:02.960 --> 1:40:05.559 was a big shark, that was a goalopogus, and and 1:40:05.640 --> 1:40:09.519 the way that that one came in. But I also 1:40:09.520 --> 1:40:12.599 have to say, we're chumming, okay, so that's a different story. 1:40:12.680 --> 1:40:16.200 Like like I can't just call these sharks bullies. If 1:40:16.240 --> 1:40:19.519 I was just there minding my own business spear fishing 1:40:19.600 --> 1:40:21.719 or swimming, and the shark came in and started swimming 1:40:21.760 --> 1:40:25.320 like that, and then I'd be like, okay, like we 1:40:25.400 --> 1:40:28.479 really got a face off and and pay attention. When 1:40:28.479 --> 1:40:30.439 you say big shark, how do you what do you 1:40:30.479 --> 1:40:33.600 mean by that? What would you say? How will I know? 1:40:33.760 --> 1:40:35.080 I think I had said it. I thought it was 1:40:35.120 --> 1:40:40.120 like eight to ten eight ft. Maybe that's when you 1:40:40.160 --> 1:40:42.120 can really tell it's big. Is the thickness of it 1:40:42.160 --> 1:40:47.400 is what I could kind of seeking. Yeah, thicken and 1:40:47.560 --> 1:40:50.640 fast and and yeah, and the way it kind of 1:40:50.680 --> 1:40:53.400 came in and started eating chumm and doing those movements, 1:40:53.439 --> 1:40:55.880 and I was like, oh, man, were that shark? I 1:40:55.920 --> 1:40:58.360 was just like, Okay, how how are we going to 1:40:58.400 --> 1:41:00.800 tell this shark that he not the bully on the 1:41:00.800 --> 1:41:04.320 bully you know? And um, but it took off. But 1:41:04.360 --> 1:41:07.960 then when those when those other two smaller ones came. Basically, 1:41:08.920 --> 1:41:13.519 I'm not too concerned about those sharks biting us because 1:41:13.520 --> 1:41:16.439 we're so much bigger than them, and I just don't 1:41:16.479 --> 1:41:19.120 think that they would look at something so much bigger 1:41:19.120 --> 1:41:22.240 than them and say, oh, yeah, that's my prey. So 1:41:22.320 --> 1:41:25.479 I wasn't concerned about them attacking any of us are 1:41:25.720 --> 1:41:28.679 like that. But I was just thinking, I don't want 1:41:28.720 --> 1:41:31.680 them getting too confident in getting food off of us, 1:41:31.720 --> 1:41:33.759 because that's what they're doing, is they're just getting really 1:41:33.800 --> 1:41:38.040 confident in eating food that was coming from us. And 1:41:38.080 --> 1:41:40.240 then what if an uku comes up and one of 1:41:40.280 --> 1:41:43.120 you shoot it, then they're they're like, oh, we've been 1:41:43.160 --> 1:41:45.760 taking his lunch all day, this one's mine, and there 1:41:45.800 --> 1:41:48.400 goes your fish. And so what I was trying to 1:41:48.439 --> 1:41:52.400 do when I was going down there and kind of like, hey, 1:41:52.439 --> 1:41:54.880 stop eating that chump. Hey, you stop eating that chump. 1:41:54.960 --> 1:41:57.640 That's my chump. That's my chump. No, that's my chump. Is. 1:41:57.640 --> 1:42:00.880 I was just trying to mama in them and tell 1:42:00.960 --> 1:42:05.439 them like, um, this this food is just mine, you know, like, 1:42:05.520 --> 1:42:08.400 and I'm not okay with you taking it um, and 1:42:08.479 --> 1:42:11.160 let them know that as long as I was there, 1:42:11.760 --> 1:42:15.280 that is the presence I'm gonna carry because that way, 1:42:15.560 --> 1:42:18.920 if we shot a fish. Um, if one of you 1:42:18.960 --> 1:42:21.040 shot a fish and you're bringing it up in a 1:42:21.120 --> 1:42:23.920 fishing distress, that's what's gonna bring in sharks, and that's 1:42:23.960 --> 1:42:26.640 what's gonna kind of turn them into like almost that 1:42:26.760 --> 1:42:29.640 frenzy state is like those vibrations of a fish, and 1:42:29.680 --> 1:42:32.320 distress more than blood or anything else, it just hits 1:42:32.320 --> 1:42:36.360 their lateral line, those vibrations, and it activates that. It's 1:42:36.439 --> 1:42:38.719 they're gonna eat, They're gonna take a bite. And once 1:42:38.800 --> 1:42:41.880 one shark commits to a bite, you'll see sharks just 1:42:41.960 --> 1:42:46.040 come out of nowhere. Yeah. And so even though they 1:42:46.040 --> 1:42:49.400 weren't a threat to us, if one of them had 1:42:49.479 --> 1:42:53.280 committed to taking a bite out of a spirit fish, 1:42:53.560 --> 1:42:57.760 that situation can escalate quickly because the minute one takes 1:42:57.760 --> 1:43:00.439 a bite. All the other ones in the name hood 1:43:00.439 --> 1:43:03.840 are like, oh that's that's a buffet and you'll just 1:43:03.880 --> 1:43:09.680 watching get vaporized and and so basically I wanted to 1:43:09.800 --> 1:43:12.400 just show my dominance so that that way, if you 1:43:12.439 --> 1:43:14.880 guys shot a fish, I would know that all I 1:43:14.920 --> 1:43:16.799 have to do is just swim down towards your fish 1:43:17.240 --> 1:43:19.800 and just get bite her fish, and those sharks would 1:43:19.840 --> 1:43:24.799 know like, oh, she's back, not ours the menal ladies 1:43:24.840 --> 1:43:39.439 down here, Yeah, exactly. Steve kind of brought this up, um, 1:43:39.479 --> 1:43:44.640 but how often do YouTube spending as much time in 1:43:44.680 --> 1:43:47.760 the water as you do, like get concerned in situations 1:43:48.200 --> 1:43:51.599 like you know, it's it's hard for me because even 1:43:51.840 --> 1:43:53.360 just wh when you turn to me and you're like, hey, 1:43:53.640 --> 1:43:55.559 you know you see that, Like that's something to be 1:43:55.640 --> 1:44:02.040 aware of. Um, in my position, it's almost like I 1:44:02.120 --> 1:44:05.519 may as well never even seen the Glockwell shark, because like, 1:44:06.920 --> 1:44:09.800 now that I'm aware of it, what the hell does 1:44:09.840 --> 1:44:12.960 that mean to me? Like I don't know how right 1:44:13.320 --> 1:44:15.720 to me is it? Like Okay, don't even if I 1:44:15.720 --> 1:44:18.520 get a great shot at something, don't don't shoot it? 1:44:18.680 --> 1:44:21.720 Or right, I see, you guys aren't getting out of 1:44:21.760 --> 1:44:24.439 the water. So it obviously doesn't mean that. Yeah, I 1:44:24.479 --> 1:44:27.400 think what it more meant is we're still going to 1:44:27.520 --> 1:44:31.400 shoot fish, but let's all be aware. Maybe we should 1:44:31.400 --> 1:44:33.040 have to talk about this, but let's all be aware 1:44:33.479 --> 1:44:36.720 that when somebody shoots a fish, the rest of us 1:44:37.320 --> 1:44:41.839 need to protect that fish, you know, protect that person 1:44:41.960 --> 1:44:46.719 pulling in that fish, and just and and just swim 1:44:46.760 --> 1:44:51.400 towards the shark like that's that's usually if I'm concerned, 1:44:51.400 --> 1:44:54.000 I'll swim towards the shark, okay. And I feel like 1:44:54.000 --> 1:44:56.719 there's bigger concerns more than we usually have with sharks, 1:44:56.800 --> 1:44:59.719 Like a lot of the concerns most times like weather 1:44:59.800 --> 1:45:03.880 chain or where's the boat or oncoming boats or but 1:45:03.960 --> 1:45:07.080 I feel like concerns is of shark usually isn't at 1:45:07.120 --> 1:45:10.759 our top level for the most part. Would you agree, Yeah, Currents, 1:45:10.960 --> 1:45:13.960 currents are much more of a concern separating. You know, 1:45:14.000 --> 1:45:15.960 if you're like further out in the water, currents pick 1:45:16.040 --> 1:45:19.080 up and you separate, that's a bigger concern than most anything. 1:45:19.120 --> 1:45:22.680 But I definitely like you, definitely, yeah. I have been 1:45:22.680 --> 1:45:29.920 in situations where, um, where a tiger sharks swimming straight 1:45:29.960 --> 1:45:32.599 at you on the surface and you're not just gonna 1:45:32.760 --> 1:45:35.080 ignore it and turn around and say I'm not concerned, 1:45:35.479 --> 1:45:39.080 you know, and um, or you're on the surface in 1:45:39.160 --> 1:45:42.240 a great white swimming straight up at you, and you're 1:45:42.240 --> 1:45:48.080 gonna pay attention, you know, So definitely I'm concerned. I 1:45:48.200 --> 1:45:53.400 just think that there's a difference between reacting out a 1:45:53.479 --> 1:45:58.960 panic and just responding accordingly. And the number one thing 1:45:59.280 --> 1:46:02.800 I think I always just keep learning in those situations 1:46:03.000 --> 1:46:06.280 is I can't outswim a shark, you know, and so 1:46:07.160 --> 1:46:11.000 the only way that truly handle it is to is 1:46:11.040 --> 1:46:12.960 to face off with it. I mean, yeah, you could 1:46:13.040 --> 1:46:16.920 like just leave and get out of the water, but um, 1:46:17.080 --> 1:46:18.920 that's what I was gonna ask, Like, if if you 1:46:19.400 --> 1:46:22.519 see a great white or a tiger shark, that's not 1:46:22.600 --> 1:46:26.280 like all right, time to get out. It's just time 1:46:26.320 --> 1:46:28.880 to be hyper aware. But keep doing what you're doing. 1:46:29.600 --> 1:46:34.280 I personally, I think those encounters are really cool. And so, 1:46:35.520 --> 1:46:37.400 you know, Steve was saying earlier, like you see something like, 1:46:37.400 --> 1:46:39.280 oh wow, let's go check that out, you know, And 1:46:39.360 --> 1:46:42.880 so I just think they're they're they're pretty, they're pretty cool, 1:46:43.000 --> 1:46:46.599 and they demand my attention because there, yeah, they're frightening, 1:46:46.600 --> 1:46:50.320 but they're special and um, and so I just like 1:46:50.439 --> 1:46:54.000 to check them out and and see how it is. 1:46:54.000 --> 1:46:56.160 And like I said, if there's a tiger shark to 1:46:56.240 --> 1:46:59.240 swimming straight at me on the surface, it is nerve 1:46:59.320 --> 1:47:02.559 racking because now I know, oh man, I gotta swim 1:47:02.640 --> 1:47:05.360 right at this tiger shark, you know, and like I 1:47:05.400 --> 1:47:08.160 have no other choice. Like that is what I'm gonna do. 1:47:08.560 --> 1:47:11.080 And I'm going to meet you with the same energy 1:47:11.120 --> 1:47:14.760 you're meeting me. And you're not like you're gonna know 1:47:14.880 --> 1:47:17.360 that if you're curious in me, I'm just as curious 1:47:17.360 --> 1:47:20.800 in you. That's how I stand. And and so it's 1:47:20.800 --> 1:47:23.360 not always like what I feel like doing in the moment, 1:47:23.439 --> 1:47:25.519 but you just do it and you just and then 1:47:25.560 --> 1:47:27.360 next thing you know, you're playing chicken with a shark. 1:47:27.479 --> 1:47:30.400 But it's like that's what you you need to do. 1:47:30.560 --> 1:47:33.439 And then when it turns, it's like it gets kind 1:47:33.439 --> 1:47:36.200 of ticked off and irritated, you know, and it might 1:47:36.240 --> 1:47:39.040 do it again, but you just keep meeting just keep 1:47:39.080 --> 1:47:44.520 meeting it, and um. Usually you can just defuse the situation. Um. 1:47:44.600 --> 1:47:46.879 And then it's just it is a really cool encounter. 1:47:47.840 --> 1:47:53.320 Let's say yesterday we're chumming a fourteen ft great white 1:47:54.520 --> 1:47:58.600 starts circling around, blows you you like. You wouldn't have 1:47:58.640 --> 1:48:01.800 automatically called it off. It's mere presence wouldn't make you 1:48:01.840 --> 1:48:03.439 call it off. You have to see more and to 1:48:03.479 --> 1:48:06.000 figure out what was going on. I probably wouldn't be 1:48:06.160 --> 1:48:09.799 at all focused on Uku's anymore. I wouldn't be like, everyone, 1:48:09.880 --> 1:48:14.160 let's keep spear fishing, um, because all of my attention 1:48:14.640 --> 1:48:19.040 would be on that great white shark. Definitely. Yeah, yeah, 1:48:19.080 --> 1:48:23.760 there's difference in sharks, you know, Um and cal Hang 1:48:23.800 --> 1:48:30.160 on the chum bag. Tell people about your the story 1:48:30.160 --> 1:48:33.240 you're telling about the sperm whale. Oh yeah, so that 1:48:33.400 --> 1:48:37.600 was That was in Um Dominica and I was on 1:48:37.720 --> 1:48:42.360 the surface of the ocean um and and a sperm 1:48:42.360 --> 1:48:47.559 whale was was swimming along and it ended up swimming 1:48:47.600 --> 1:48:50.719 on the surface and we ended up like pretty much 1:48:50.840 --> 1:48:54.280 just meeting up head on on the surface. It was 1:48:54.320 --> 1:48:57.559 about thirty ft away from me. And there's a photo 1:48:57.600 --> 1:49:00.800 of this there is It's incredible. And um, I know 1:49:00.800 --> 1:49:02.599 because when I asked me how far away were you 1:49:02.800 --> 1:49:04.280 and I said thirty ft, I was like, I'm gonna 1:49:04.280 --> 1:49:06.120 look at that photo to make sure I'm not exaggerating 1:49:06.120 --> 1:49:09.599 and it really was. It was a very close encounter. Um. 1:49:09.640 --> 1:49:12.559 And as soon as it was about thirty feet away, 1:49:12.640 --> 1:49:15.280 it just used its tail, which makes a lot of 1:49:15.360 --> 1:49:17.880 bubbles and turbulence to use that big tail and use 1:49:17.960 --> 1:49:21.360 its tail, and it just flipped itself completely upside down 1:49:21.720 --> 1:49:24.200 and then it just opened its mouth and I could 1:49:24.320 --> 1:49:26.559 I could see I could see all its teeth, you know, 1:49:26.680 --> 1:49:31.120 even from there, and that was a pretty intimidating experience. 1:49:31.240 --> 1:49:34.280 But um, but then after that, I just gently rolled 1:49:34.320 --> 1:49:37.719 back over and very gracefully kind of didn't dive down, 1:49:37.800 --> 1:49:40.519 and just dove down into the depths and was gone. 1:49:40.720 --> 1:49:45.200 And later I learned from scientists that sperm whales, you know, 1:49:45.240 --> 1:49:48.320 they have huge heads, the hugest on the planet. And 1:49:48.360 --> 1:49:50.800 because I was just like right in the middle of 1:49:50.840 --> 1:49:53.080 its site, it could just it couldn't see me with 1:49:53.160 --> 1:49:55.840 both eyes, and so it had to turn upside down 1:49:56.000 --> 1:49:57.760 in order to be able to see me, see what 1:49:57.880 --> 1:50:00.920 I was. And then they're hearing it come from the inside, 1:50:01.320 --> 1:50:03.920 and so so they had to open its mouth so 1:50:03.960 --> 1:50:05.960 that it could hear me. And so it was just 1:50:06.160 --> 1:50:09.400 it was just a way of like shaking hands, you know, 1:50:10.520 --> 1:50:13.160 getting a better look. Yeah, and the photo kind of 1:50:13.200 --> 1:50:18.360 captures the moment where it's inverted. Yeah, in the gate, 1:50:21.760 --> 1:50:24.360 was that what's the scariest thing you've run into? Like 1:50:24.400 --> 1:50:28.720 the scariest moment you've had? Well, I mean when it 1:50:28.800 --> 1:50:33.960 comes to animals, I think, yeah, my first time with 1:50:34.040 --> 1:50:38.680 a great white in in the water. Um, they're just 1:50:38.760 --> 1:50:43.240 so big, you know, They're just so big and so fat, 1:50:43.280 --> 1:50:46.759 and I just always thought of them as these ambush 1:50:46.840 --> 1:50:53.720 predators that he's gonna eat you. Um, and and so 1:50:53.760 --> 1:50:57.559 I think just like having that, you know, that idea 1:50:58.240 --> 1:51:00.720 in your head and knowing that like that is what 1:51:00.800 --> 1:51:04.200 they can do and do to their prey. When you 1:51:04.240 --> 1:51:09.519 see a fat, big, great white shark in the water 1:51:09.640 --> 1:51:16.200 with you, yeah, it's it's pretty intimidating. Um. But that 1:51:16.280 --> 1:51:21.679 experience ended up being just a really beautiful, peaceful one 1:51:21.760 --> 1:51:25.080 where I just got into a groove with this shark 1:51:25.200 --> 1:51:28.080 and ended up being a really cool shark. And that's 1:51:28.120 --> 1:51:30.559 one thing that I've noticed too, is a lot of 1:51:30.600 --> 1:51:36.639 times the bigger the shark, the more calm their presence. 1:51:36.760 --> 1:51:39.599 It's just and and like the little ones, little pesky ones, 1:51:39.640 --> 1:51:42.120 they can be kind of more like the bitey, punky ones. 1:51:42.920 --> 1:51:46.360 They just got more experience what they're dealing with them. 1:51:47.800 --> 1:51:49.280 I don't know this because you said it to me. 1:51:49.320 --> 1:51:51.720 I know it just from having read about you when 1:51:51.720 --> 1:51:57.040 you started out in spearfishing, Um, you in some way 1:51:57.120 --> 1:51:59.559 registered or had the feeling of like not being taken 1:51:59.600 --> 1:52:04.960 seriously by guys. What does that? Probably maybe I'm putting 1:52:04.960 --> 1:52:06.360 words in your mouth, but I know that it's like 1:52:06.640 --> 1:52:10.120 a thing that you've lived through. I mean, I mean 1:52:10.120 --> 1:52:15.040 I can't really say that completely at all. Um, I 1:52:15.040 --> 1:52:16.720 don't know if I ever really said that. I mean, 1:52:16.800 --> 1:52:20.840 I know that, I know that I definitely yeah, I 1:52:20.840 --> 1:52:22.840 mean there's truth to that. I know. I caught a 1:52:22.840 --> 1:52:27.960 lot of guys by surprise because they just aren't used 1:52:28.000 --> 1:52:30.599 to seeing They weren't used to seeing a girl who 1:52:30.640 --> 1:52:34.400 spiritfish is Yeah, okay, there's definitely a lot of guys 1:52:34.560 --> 1:52:38.559 who didn't take me seriously and probably because um, I 1:52:38.600 --> 1:52:41.439 was a girl and they just wouldn't associate those two 1:52:41.439 --> 1:52:44.120 things together. And even if I say I spear fish, 1:52:44.120 --> 1:52:47.920 they probably just don't quite believe me. But um, so, like, 1:52:48.120 --> 1:52:50.080 what does it look like? I mean, what does that 1:52:50.160 --> 1:52:52.360 exchange look like? If you're in if you're in a thing, 1:52:53.360 --> 1:52:55.840 is it just that that you don't that you're not 1:52:55.880 --> 1:52:58.240 invited to go along or you mentioned it and people 1:52:58.280 --> 1:53:01.400 think that you can't be serious. Yeah, but I hate 1:53:01.439 --> 1:53:06.320 to even just say like, oh, guys, because because it 1:53:06.400 --> 1:53:09.360 was guys that that taught me to spearfish too, Like 1:53:09.400 --> 1:53:12.080 it was it was the guys that did believe in me, 1:53:12.200 --> 1:53:15.400 that took me more seriously than I ever could have 1:53:15.479 --> 1:53:20.400 taken myself, who mentored me, who just like believed in me, 1:53:20.439 --> 1:53:22.559 believed in me, believe me. It was you know, it 1:53:22.680 --> 1:53:25.720 was all men who who took me under their wing 1:53:25.760 --> 1:53:27.799 and did that. So we're just talking about different humans, 1:53:27.840 --> 1:53:32.280 and and yes, out of out of like all these 1:53:32.280 --> 1:53:34.960 different humans there, there were definitely some men who just 1:53:35.120 --> 1:53:39.440 couldn't register that a girl could be doing this um 1:53:39.479 --> 1:53:42.559 and it just looked like things like we'd be at 1:53:42.680 --> 1:53:46.599 like spear fishing tournaments and they'd be talking about like, 1:53:46.640 --> 1:53:48.960 oh man, I'm gonna go do this trip in Cabbo 1:53:49.080 --> 1:53:52.360 and get yellow fantuna and I'm just like sitting at 1:53:52.360 --> 1:53:54.720 the table and like nodding my head and then then 1:53:54.760 --> 1:53:57.280 look over and they'll be like, oh, like, I mean 1:53:57.280 --> 1:54:00.120 what we're talking about, Kimmy. It's like equivalent to you 1:54:00.280 --> 1:54:03.320 like going on all expense paid for a shopping spree, 1:54:03.800 --> 1:54:07.000 and I'm just like, ball, It's like, what are you 1:54:07.000 --> 1:54:10.160 even talking about? Like I was into the tuna story, 1:54:10.280 --> 1:54:15.200 you know, I like things like that, and and and 1:54:15.240 --> 1:54:17.080 it's just funny, Like you know, some guys are just 1:54:17.120 --> 1:54:19.320 like they just can't quite figure it out, like how 1:54:19.439 --> 1:54:23.720 is that possible? It can't be possible that that, um, 1:54:23.880 --> 1:54:25.599 this girl can do that whatever, So they just ask 1:54:25.680 --> 1:54:28.120 you really funny questions. Then you can just tell that 1:54:28.320 --> 1:54:31.360 they just don't quite believe you. You know, do you 1:54:31.439 --> 1:54:36.000 take it as a is it damaging? Is it amusing, 1:54:36.920 --> 1:54:40.440 you know, to get the like to get the flak 1:54:40.600 --> 1:54:45.160 or or to be that to feel like you're treated 1:54:45.200 --> 1:54:48.880 as a sort of special individual because of being a 1:54:48.920 --> 1:54:55.680 spear fisher woman. Um, I mean m I think it's 1:54:56.600 --> 1:55:01.720 for the most part, like all the uh oh, the 1:55:01.800 --> 1:55:04.280 silly stuff with the irritating stuff is just not even 1:55:04.440 --> 1:55:07.160 it's neither just not really worth my time. And it's 1:55:07.160 --> 1:55:08.880 just like that's when you know, like those aren't my people, 1:55:09.160 --> 1:55:12.160 you know. And and then like I said, and then 1:55:12.200 --> 1:55:15.160 I just I've had I just had way too many 1:55:15.720 --> 1:55:20.040 of encounters of the opposite though, of like people who 1:55:21.120 --> 1:55:23.440 just treating me like a diver like that's and that's 1:55:23.480 --> 1:55:26.280 what I always wanted it. That's what like I love 1:55:26.360 --> 1:55:29.280 before about like you know, sometimes just putting your your 1:55:29.320 --> 1:55:31.800 hood on and whatever you kind of just like look 1:55:31.840 --> 1:55:35.360 the same as everybody else. And and I think that 1:55:35.760 --> 1:55:37.440 was it more than anything, is that I didn't want 1:55:37.480 --> 1:55:40.440 to be I didn't want to be just good for 1:55:40.480 --> 1:55:44.080 a girl, which that was one of the weird like 1:55:44.920 --> 1:55:47.400 compliment you again from the ones that were intimidated by you. 1:55:47.640 --> 1:55:51.160 And I didn't want to be like, oh yeah, that's 1:55:51.200 --> 1:55:53.960 that's pretty good for a girl exactly, like oh yeah, 1:55:54.040 --> 1:55:55.760 she's good. Oh yeah, I heard she's good for a girl, 1:55:56.000 --> 1:55:58.520 you know, And I just like don't. I don't. That's 1:55:58.520 --> 1:56:02.400 not I didn't like that, But I also did it like, um, 1:56:02.600 --> 1:56:04.080 the idea of like oh I'm trying to be better 1:56:04.120 --> 1:56:08.160 than the boys, you know, Um, I that would be 1:56:08.200 --> 1:56:12.280 like ascribed to you as a motivation totally yeah yeah, 1:56:12.440 --> 1:56:15.640 And I mean it was always sad and like good 1:56:15.640 --> 1:56:18.120 hearted fun and that's fine and didn't bother me. But 1:56:18.200 --> 1:56:20.120 the truth was, it's just like I just wanted to 1:56:20.160 --> 1:56:22.720 be a good diver, that's all. Like I wanted to 1:56:22.760 --> 1:56:25.800 be and and the guys that um I ended up 1:56:25.840 --> 1:56:31.240 just like, you know, becoming super friends when it became 1:56:31.280 --> 1:56:35.760 my mentors, like that's just how they saw me. And 1:56:35.760 --> 1:56:37.440 and it was just that was just the best feeling 1:56:37.480 --> 1:56:41.960 in the world, you know, just to just do just 1:56:42.040 --> 1:56:45.840 to be part of this club where um, yeah, you're 1:56:45.880 --> 1:56:47.640 just you're you're just trying to be a good diver. 1:56:49.240 --> 1:56:52.040 Do you like sitting here having this conversation like this 1:56:52.160 --> 1:56:54.200 part of this conversation. Is it annoying? Like could just 1:56:54.200 --> 1:56:56.920 be totally honest, I'm just like I'm always curious how 1:56:56.920 --> 1:56:59.560 to navigate this like that sort of question. Is it 1:56:59.600 --> 1:57:02.280 annoying to you that I asked you that? No, it's not. 1:57:02.440 --> 1:57:05.760 I mean I think, like I think if I first 1:57:05.760 --> 1:57:07.800 thought when you asked me that though, if I'm honest, 1:57:07.880 --> 1:57:11.400 was like, oh, are you trying to be considerate? You know, 1:57:11.560 --> 1:57:14.440 like is that like a like is that like, um, 1:57:14.560 --> 1:57:17.800 like a polite thing to do is to like look 1:57:17.840 --> 1:57:22.000 at how things are for women these days and and 1:57:22.040 --> 1:57:23.160 this and that. I don't know. That was like one 1:57:23.160 --> 1:57:24.320 of the first things I went in my head. But 1:57:24.360 --> 1:57:26.880 it doesn't at all annoy me because I think, Okay, 1:57:27.000 --> 1:57:28.560 another thing I have to say, I think it is 1:57:28.560 --> 1:57:31.440 an important question. I think it's a very important question. 1:57:31.760 --> 1:57:34.360 And before I used to not think that, and I 1:57:34.400 --> 1:57:37.560 wondered why people ask me that so much. Um And 1:57:37.960 --> 1:57:40.160 an example would be that I used to always enter 1:57:40.440 --> 1:57:43.880 co ed um dive tournaments, right, and so it be 1:57:43.920 --> 1:57:47.040 me and a bunch of dudes basically, And and then 1:57:47.480 --> 1:57:51.160 more girls started getting into these tournaments, and then they 1:57:51.160 --> 1:57:55.960 started like having um like like protesting them or whatever, 1:57:56.040 --> 1:57:59.320 like they needed a women's division, and they saw it 1:57:59.400 --> 1:58:02.240 wasn't fair if they didn't have a women's division. And 1:58:02.400 --> 1:58:06.800 I was the first one that was just like no, no, no, no, no, like, 1:58:06.880 --> 1:58:09.400 why the heck would you do that? Like are you 1:58:09.480 --> 1:58:10.840 kidding me? Because I was just like I want to 1:58:10.840 --> 1:58:13.120 be a good diver, and and I was just like 1:58:13.400 --> 1:58:15.280 I go home, and I just remember just telling my 1:58:15.360 --> 1:58:18.680 sister like, oh, man, like I really liked all these girls, 1:58:18.760 --> 1:58:20.880 but now they're getting all crazy and wanting to have 1:58:21.000 --> 1:58:23.360 like women's division. I don't get it. Why so that 1:58:23.560 --> 1:58:25.480 like three of us can enter and three of us 1:58:25.480 --> 1:58:27.840 can walk away with trophies? Like why would they want 1:58:27.840 --> 1:58:30.360 to do that? Why don't we just dive as divers? 1:58:30.760 --> 1:58:33.480 And my and that was seriously my point of view. 1:58:33.480 --> 1:58:35.080 And then my sister she just looked at me and 1:58:35.080 --> 1:58:37.640 she's like, oh, it must be nice. It must be 1:58:37.720 --> 1:58:41.240 nice for you to say that, and and I didn't 1:58:41.320 --> 1:58:43.920 quite get it. And then she's like, okay, me, don't 1:58:43.960 --> 1:58:47.320 you get it? Like she's like, you're the exception to 1:58:47.400 --> 1:58:50.960 the rule in so many ways. And she's like, she's like, 1:58:51.320 --> 1:58:55.440 dad took you in the water since you were five 1:58:55.520 --> 1:58:58.080 years old, and like, granted it didn't happen all my life, 1:58:58.080 --> 1:59:01.720 but it did happen for like a good few years 1:59:01.760 --> 1:59:05.360 pretty solid where I was in the water, developing this comfort, 1:59:05.600 --> 1:59:09.920 developing this belonging, you know. And she's like, can you 1:59:09.960 --> 1:59:12.840 know how many other guys do you know that their 1:59:12.920 --> 1:59:15.760 dads did that for them? And I could think of everybody, 1:59:15.920 --> 1:59:18.320 you know, if not their dad's, their uncles or someone. 1:59:18.640 --> 1:59:21.840 And she's like, okay, now, how many other girls do 1:59:21.920 --> 1:59:25.280 you know where their dads did that to them? And 1:59:25.360 --> 1:59:29.640 I honestly could not think of a single person, like, 1:59:29.720 --> 1:59:31.880 not one single person, And that to me just like 1:59:32.240 --> 1:59:34.160 change yourself. I was like, oh my god, you're so right. 1:59:34.240 --> 1:59:36.800 Like every single guy that I went to high school with, 1:59:36.840 --> 1:59:38.640 I grew up with like they were the ones that 1:59:38.680 --> 1:59:40.880 would die because their dads or uncles taught them. And 1:59:41.200 --> 1:59:43.839 I don't know a single woman who like was given 1:59:44.440 --> 1:59:48.080 that same opportunity. And and then she's like, so, now 1:59:48.240 --> 1:59:51.080 think about like, you know, it was already intimidating for 1:59:51.120 --> 1:59:53.240 you to to get back into it on your own, 1:59:53.240 --> 1:59:55.560 but the thing that got you through was those early 1:59:56.000 --> 1:59:58.920 years of being taken along like with someone that you 1:59:58.960 --> 2:00:02.560 felt safe with, you know. And she's like, if no 2:00:02.600 --> 2:00:06.000 girl has ever experienced that ever, And now they see 2:00:06.040 --> 2:00:09.640 you achieving what you're achieving, and that inspires them and 2:00:09.680 --> 2:00:12.160 they want to get into it. But they didn't. They 2:00:12.200 --> 2:00:14.760 didn't have like what you had, you know, and you 2:00:14.760 --> 2:00:17.880 don't even want to give them their own division. I 2:00:17.960 --> 2:00:19.680 was just like, give it, give it to us a 2:00:19.760 --> 2:00:23.520 little gut check. I think that in asking it just 2:00:24.080 --> 2:00:27.640 or in talking about it, for where it's interesting to 2:00:27.720 --> 2:00:32.520 me is that participation rates and some of the activities 2:00:32.560 --> 2:00:35.800 that I hold near and dear and that like participation 2:00:35.880 --> 2:00:38.960 rates are so overwhelmingly male. And I think that you 2:00:38.960 --> 2:00:42.960 would you would look at it and find that you 2:00:42.960 --> 2:00:49.800 know that there's that there's probably some physiological underpinnings to 2:00:49.920 --> 2:00:52.840 explain some of it right in some cases, like like 2:00:52.880 --> 2:00:55.080 I think if you removed any kind of like social 2:00:55.200 --> 2:00:59.200 cultural aspect, do I really think that of the population 2:00:59.800 --> 2:01:01.840 of people that hunters fishes would be male? Like I 2:01:01.880 --> 2:01:05.560 just feel like it's probably still tilt that way, just 2:01:05.600 --> 2:01:08.160 in terms of I don't know, man like like like 2:01:08.240 --> 2:01:13.360 physiology or or something like maybe I can't really speak 2:01:13.360 --> 2:01:16.960 to diving. I think that for free diving, I mean 2:01:17.240 --> 2:01:20.280 I would have to say, like I think women would 2:01:20.360 --> 2:01:26.680 really Yeah, I think when I get at that, like 2:01:26.720 --> 2:01:29.960 a couple of things that reasons when I say physiological 2:01:30.320 --> 2:01:39.640 is is if you look at different cultures around the world, Okay, Um, 2:01:39.760 --> 2:01:42.440 even cultures that hadn't had contact with one another for 2:01:43.200 --> 2:01:46.440 perhaps tens of thousands of years would develop along these 2:01:46.440 --> 2:01:51.680 similar lines where you had had that that like the 2:01:51.760 --> 2:01:55.440 hunting class, like the members of the society that gauge 2:01:55.480 --> 2:01:59.000 and hunting and fishing. Um, if you look at indigenous 2:01:59.040 --> 2:02:03.560 cultures and age jow in Africa, South America, North America, 2:02:03.800 --> 2:02:06.680 you want up saying that all these independently developed cultures 2:02:06.720 --> 2:02:10.560 also developed this thing where it was predominantly it was 2:02:10.640 --> 2:02:15.280 predominantly men, right, not for free diving. Now, free diving 2:02:15.560 --> 2:02:20.120 it's the women like Um. Justin and I actually we 2:02:20.240 --> 2:02:24.840 went to Korea to meet the Henon and they're these 2:02:24.920 --> 2:02:28.160 like old lady divers because they're kind of they are 2:02:28.200 --> 2:02:30.400 the last of their kind. It's something that hasn't really 2:02:30.440 --> 2:02:35.040 been passed on. But Um, for centuries they've been the 2:02:35.120 --> 2:02:41.920 one free diving for um, for sea snails, for um, abalone, 2:02:42.360 --> 2:02:47.560 for horn konk and um sustaining their whole island, you know. 2:02:47.600 --> 2:02:50.200 And they finding the Japanese culture too with the Ama 2:02:50.400 --> 2:02:54.000 and they were like shellfish diverse, pariol divers. Yeah, and UM. 2:02:54.040 --> 2:02:58.040 And it turned out that UM, I mean the story 2:02:58.120 --> 2:03:01.360 I hear is that for the curree yuh. Actually at 2:03:01.360 --> 2:03:04.440 first it was the men that that would do it, 2:03:04.560 --> 2:03:07.840 but then UM, But then I think what happened is 2:03:08.320 --> 2:03:12.280 Japan invaded Korea, put this tax on on the working 2:03:12.480 --> 2:03:16.640 people of this island, Jju and UM. And so there's 2:03:16.680 --> 2:03:18.760 kind of a loophole because attacks only applied to the 2:03:18.760 --> 2:03:20.920 men because they were the workers. And so the men 2:03:20.960 --> 2:03:23.640 taught their wives to dive. But then they ended up 2:03:23.640 --> 2:03:25.720 being so much better at it anyway. And the reasons 2:03:25.720 --> 2:03:28.280 why it's because they had um the more fat and 2:03:28.320 --> 2:03:31.720 so they could stay warmer in the cold water, but 2:03:31.760 --> 2:03:35.080 they also could hold their breath longer. And then so 2:03:35.160 --> 2:03:37.040 the women kind of did it because they weren't getting 2:03:37.080 --> 2:03:39.120 tax and then they ended up being so much better 2:03:39.240 --> 2:03:43.720 at it that they became like they were the ones 2:03:43.880 --> 2:03:46.880 that sustained the family. To this day, there's still the ones. 2:03:46.960 --> 2:03:49.200 We went and we interviewed these women and talked to them, 2:03:49.200 --> 2:03:53.840 and they're the ones that they they put their their 2:03:53.920 --> 2:03:56.880 husbands into college or whatever it is. They they take 2:03:56.920 --> 2:03:59.400 care of the whole family financially, they take care of 2:03:59.440 --> 2:04:02.560 the commune nitty because they're the ones that make the 2:04:02.600 --> 2:04:05.640 money because they're the ones that can dive. And so 2:04:05.760 --> 2:04:10.040 I really think that there's something different about about free 2:04:10.040 --> 2:04:16.040 diving because you don't need to be like that physically strong. 2:04:16.480 --> 2:04:20.600 I feel, you know, like I probably can't load your 2:04:20.640 --> 2:04:23.440 gun and cow like, but I don't need to because 2:04:23.720 --> 2:04:28.760 I know I can bring the fish closer to what 2:04:29.200 --> 2:04:31.920 I was gonna get at with the what I wanted 2:04:31.920 --> 2:04:34.280 to get at in the long run. Around. The thing 2:04:34.320 --> 2:04:37.320 about physiology is I'm saying like, even if there is 2:04:37.400 --> 2:04:41.800 some physiological element or something just about like aggressiveness or whatever, 2:04:41.840 --> 2:04:44.680 to hell, right, then I think that we've had, like 2:04:45.040 --> 2:04:50.040 we've had social and cultural overlays that have definitely impacted that. 2:04:50.720 --> 2:04:52.919 And what originally got me thinking about it was, Remember 2:04:52.960 --> 2:04:54.760 I was talking to a guy that looks at democrat 2:04:54.880 --> 2:05:00.640 hunting and fishing demographics, and he was pointing out that, um, 2:05:00.720 --> 2:05:07.240 that uh, a woman who hunts and fishes, there's a 2:05:07.320 --> 2:05:12.520 greater likelihood that they are in a family where there 2:05:12.520 --> 2:05:16.200 were no boys or where were they were the first child. 2:05:18.800 --> 2:05:22.840 That guys will like that that guys have historically been 2:05:23.080 --> 2:05:26.160 like basically, oh, I guess you can go because I 2:05:26.200 --> 2:05:29.920 don't have a son to bring, you know, And I 2:05:29.920 --> 2:05:32.640 think that that's like a that's an actual thing. I 2:05:32.640 --> 2:05:36.160 mean we've tried to I I perhaps um and having 2:05:36.160 --> 2:05:39.960 a daughter, like I feel like I perhaps try to overcompensate, 2:05:41.000 --> 2:05:43.880 um under like instructions from my wife too. The minut 2:05:43.880 --> 2:05:45.240 she found out she's having a girl, She's like, you 2:05:45.280 --> 2:05:47.440 are not going to treat her different than the boys. 2:05:47.920 --> 2:05:50.560 And so to hold up on that, I feel like I, 2:05:51.040 --> 2:05:53.160 um maybe do the opposite and lean on her a 2:05:53.200 --> 2:05:56.640 little more heavily or like have hot like have higher 2:05:56.640 --> 2:06:01.320 expectations to sort of demonstrate how, um, how good I'm 2:06:01.360 --> 2:06:05.000 doing right, like I need like I want my progress 2:06:05.040 --> 2:06:08.160 to be measured by hers in a way that winds 2:06:08.200 --> 2:06:12.200 up putting a little bit of unfair you know, like 2:06:12.240 --> 2:06:16.400 an unfair expectation, you know. So my like when she 2:06:16.480 --> 2:06:18.080 was eight years old, like this year, I really was like, 2:06:18.120 --> 2:06:19.880 we're gonna get a turkey. We'n get turkey, We're getting 2:06:19.880 --> 2:06:22.760 a turkey. It was coming from me very much like that. 2:06:23.000 --> 2:06:25.600 I needed, like I need you to do that to 2:06:25.840 --> 2:06:29.280 undo the stereotype that you're not responsible for, you know. 2:06:30.040 --> 2:06:31.880 So it's just become a thing of interest to me. 2:06:32.320 --> 2:06:35.280 And then we hear from people who feel um no, 2:06:35.360 --> 2:06:39.040 well oftentimes here from people who feel like like unwelcome 2:06:40.200 --> 2:06:44.120 by guys who sort of seem to want these this 2:06:44.120 --> 2:06:47.440 this world to be guy centric or find comfort in that. 2:06:47.520 --> 2:06:50.320 I don't know, Yeah, I guess I can. I can 2:06:50.400 --> 2:06:54.200 relate to all of that. I think that, yeah, because 2:06:54.240 --> 2:06:56.080 I do see like some guys just they're used to 2:06:56.120 --> 2:06:58.440 it being a certain way, and they're afraid that if 2:06:58.440 --> 2:07:00.560 a whole bunch of girls come into the scene, it's 2:07:00.560 --> 2:07:02.600 just going to change the vibe of it, you know, 2:07:02.880 --> 2:07:08.320 And it's just interesting, like on the edge of a 2:07:08.480 --> 2:07:14.840 recruitment type conversation here and yeah kind of. Um so, 2:07:14.960 --> 2:07:19.880 could you speak just briefly, um, as like spear fishing 2:07:19.920 --> 2:07:22.480 as a community is it would you say it's a 2:07:22.520 --> 2:07:28.040 welcoming community? Um? Is there part of spear fishing that 2:07:28.160 --> 2:07:30.800 like wants to like mentor people and bring more people 2:07:30.840 --> 2:07:32.960 into the space or is it is it kind of 2:07:33.000 --> 2:07:36.000 an insular community that it's like, hey, man, there's only 2:07:36.040 --> 2:07:39.360 so many fish in the ocean. I think it's both. 2:07:39.480 --> 2:07:42.520 I think you gotta earn it. And so it's like 2:07:42.760 --> 2:07:44.920 it's not gonna be handed to you. Doors might not 2:07:45.080 --> 2:07:48.560 just be open for you. You know, it's not something 2:07:48.600 --> 2:07:51.600 where it's like, hey, welcome, let's show you the ropes 2:07:51.800 --> 2:07:55.440 and um take you to our fishing spots and teach 2:07:55.480 --> 2:07:57.880 you how to do this. I don't think that, you know, 2:07:58.160 --> 2:08:01.320 it is fishing that people are going to be protective 2:08:01.360 --> 2:08:04.800 and secretive and keep to themselves in a certain way. UM. So, 2:08:05.320 --> 2:08:08.840 maybe getting a foot in the door isn't just like 2:08:09.360 --> 2:08:13.960 an easy hand out. But I think that if you 2:08:14.040 --> 2:08:19.360 want it bad enough, like if you try hard enough, 2:08:19.400 --> 2:08:22.560 and if it's just something you're really passionate about. UM, 2:08:22.640 --> 2:08:24.680 I guess I'm just telling my own story, but like, 2:08:25.480 --> 2:08:29.240 and you do it, You're gonna earn the respect of 2:08:29.320 --> 2:08:32.560 this community. And then all of a sudden, doors are 2:08:32.560 --> 2:08:36.880 gonna open and invites are gonna start coming. And and 2:08:36.920 --> 2:08:40.240 I think I kind of like it that way, like 2:08:40.360 --> 2:08:44.120 I just you know, um, and I think maybe in 2:08:44.120 --> 2:08:45.520 a way that's even why I was like, now, you 2:08:45.520 --> 2:08:48.640 guys gotta go three pronging first, you know, like you know, 2:08:48.640 --> 2:08:51.000 it's just like you don't just roll up here and 2:08:51.760 --> 2:08:53.600 put a spear gun in your hand and I'm gonna 2:08:53.640 --> 2:08:55.560 take you and shoot a big fish like you didn't 2:08:55.560 --> 2:09:00.600 earn it yet, you know, And so so so I 2:09:00.600 --> 2:09:05.400 guess I think it's a very wonderful, tight knit, beautiful 2:09:05.520 --> 2:09:09.800 community that I do think is welcoming. But I think 2:09:09.800 --> 2:09:14.760 it's the more you earn respect, the more welcoming it's 2:09:14.800 --> 2:09:18.160 going to be. Do you see a similar path in 2:09:18.200 --> 2:09:24.720 your bow hunting career? I mean, honestly, with bow hunting, 2:09:25.280 --> 2:09:27.560 I feel like I've spent um. I feel like I 2:09:28.040 --> 2:09:31.360 feel like I've earned respect as a spear fisher woman 2:09:31.680 --> 2:09:36.040 to the point where bow hunters look at me and 2:09:36.080 --> 2:09:39.760 say like, oh, you know, like and and they I 2:09:39.800 --> 2:09:43.720 feel like the doors have opened almost too easily where um, 2:09:44.000 --> 2:09:49.280 like you, your spear fishing credentials have have put some 2:09:49.440 --> 2:09:54.240 sort of like have got to me at least my 2:09:54.320 --> 2:09:57.600 spear fishing credentials have all of a sudden made like 2:09:57.920 --> 2:10:00.000 to me, it feels like a lot of people welco 2:10:00.000 --> 2:10:04.080 at me, welcome me into bow hunting. Yeah, and I 2:10:04.120 --> 2:10:08.160 think that's nice, But I think I almost shy away 2:10:08.200 --> 2:10:11.680 from it because I it just sometimes feels like a 2:10:11.680 --> 2:10:16.040 little too spoiled for me, Like I, um, you know 2:10:16.760 --> 2:10:22.280 it's really I really appreciate it, but um, but I 2:10:22.320 --> 2:10:24.600 feel like sometimes when things are just like handed to you, 2:10:24.920 --> 2:10:27.360 it just doesn't feel right, I guess I could say. 2:10:27.440 --> 2:10:30.480 And so I've actually shied away from it a lot 2:10:30.560 --> 2:10:33.760 because I have been I have gotten a lot of 2:10:33.760 --> 2:10:36.800 offers and opportunities and and gear and stuff. When I 2:10:36.800 --> 2:10:39.240 get and I'm like, I'm such a big cook, Like 2:10:39.680 --> 2:10:44.800 I don't deserve this, Like this person deserves this, Like 2:10:45.280 --> 2:10:47.520 you should really be giving it to this person because 2:10:47.560 --> 2:10:51.000 I see her working her butt off, you know, whereas 2:10:51.080 --> 2:10:53.840 me like I didn't earn any of this, and so 2:10:53.920 --> 2:10:55.960 I kind of have shied away from it. And what 2:10:56.120 --> 2:11:01.040 has actually made me um crossover, just in this past 2:11:01.080 --> 2:11:04.720 week was that it was all those old dive mentors 2:11:04.720 --> 2:11:07.360 that I just speak so highly of who really trained 2:11:07.400 --> 2:11:10.680 me and diving. They're all bow hunters now and um, 2:11:10.720 --> 2:11:13.280 and they called me up and they said, you know, hey, 2:11:13.520 --> 2:11:16.160 let's get together and do a sheet punt. And like 2:11:16.200 --> 2:11:18.160 those guys they're gonna tell me to do anything, I'm 2:11:18.160 --> 2:11:20.480 gonna do it, like and so I just said sure, 2:11:20.480 --> 2:11:22.720 and they're like, Okay, have you been shooting your bow? 2:11:22.920 --> 2:11:24.840 Like nope, Okay, Well meet me at the range. And 2:11:24.840 --> 2:11:27.240 I just like and I'll just listen to them because 2:11:27.640 --> 2:11:31.800 I don't know, they're just like they're my they're my teachers. 2:11:31.960 --> 2:11:35.839 And so then it just clicked naturally. And these guys, um, 2:11:36.280 --> 2:11:39.760 yeah I met you know, help me dial things in 2:11:39.840 --> 2:11:45.160 with my bow. Um, I'm just yeah, And I just 2:11:45.280 --> 2:11:48.680 like maybe I feel like I somehow with them. I 2:11:48.680 --> 2:11:51.480 feel like, oh, I have paid my dues, you know 2:11:51.680 --> 2:11:54.200 many times, fay my dues in this crew, and so 2:11:54.360 --> 2:11:56.480 when when they're gonna tell me to do something, I'm 2:11:56.480 --> 2:11:58.280 just gonna listen. And it was just such a cool 2:11:58.400 --> 2:12:01.400 learning process. And and then um, when we did go 2:12:01.440 --> 2:12:04.600 on a hunt, it was really neat because the sheep 2:12:04.640 --> 2:12:07.520 that we saw you know, my my friend Calais, who 2:12:07.800 --> 2:12:09.800 was my dive mentor, he just say, oh, Kimmy, like 2:12:09.880 --> 2:12:13.240 they're sheep up there. But honestly, there's not enough trees. 2:12:13.800 --> 2:12:17.320 That's all all lava really crunchy and noisy. The only 2:12:17.360 --> 2:12:19.360 way you could possibly close this gap is if you 2:12:19.400 --> 2:12:22.120 go alone. I can't go with you, like go. And 2:12:22.200 --> 2:12:24.840 that was like the first time I felt like confident 2:12:24.880 --> 2:12:27.240 in myself because he's the guy that he would tell 2:12:27.240 --> 2:12:30.040 me like, I know you never told this deep before, 2:12:30.440 --> 2:12:32.360 but today I know you can do it, go to 2:12:32.400 --> 2:12:34.640 the bottom. And he would he would do that to me. 2:12:34.680 --> 2:12:37.320 And so when he told me go, it was like 2:12:37.560 --> 2:12:40.720 this nostalgic bliss and like prime anything. I'm like, I'm going, 2:12:41.120 --> 2:12:44.720 you know. And and so now I feel like, yeah, 2:12:45.000 --> 2:12:48.640 like I I feel like ready to embrace that, whereas 2:12:48.680 --> 2:12:51.640 before when it's just like people I don't know, like 2:12:52.440 --> 2:12:54.600 it's so nice and I'm not at all complaining. I 2:12:54.640 --> 2:12:57.600 really am happy that I have bows and stuff, you know, 2:12:57.680 --> 2:12:59.800 but just like sending me stuff, I just started to 2:12:59.800 --> 2:13:02.480 feel a little too privileged, where um, it made me 2:13:02.560 --> 2:13:04.720 kind of even back away from it more. I can't 2:13:04.720 --> 2:13:06.680 speak to the gear end of it. But in terms 2:13:06.680 --> 2:13:08.920 of the invitations and stuff end of it, I think 2:13:08.960 --> 2:13:13.280 that what you're experiencing is, like we talked about the transfer, 2:13:14.240 --> 2:13:19.880 is that you've hit um level of extreme competency at 2:13:19.960 --> 2:13:24.760 something that is recognized as being hard. So it's an 2:13:24.760 --> 2:13:28.600 easy jump for people to make to assume that if 2:13:28.640 --> 2:13:32.720 you can do that, if you can excel in that space, UM, 2:13:32.800 --> 2:13:35.320 that you would be a great asset to have along 2:13:35.720 --> 2:13:39.360 in this space. If I hear like, if if I'm 2:13:39.400 --> 2:13:43.840 hanging out with a soldier right who's gone through and done, 2:13:44.240 --> 2:13:47.280 you know, like they became like a special Operations soldier 2:13:48.040 --> 2:13:50.680 UM and lived in that world and excelled in that world. 2:13:50.920 --> 2:13:57.000 I have like zero apprehensions about going on a backpack 2:13:57.080 --> 2:13:59.880 hunt because I'm like, I don't really know that, but 2:14:00.120 --> 2:14:02.600 understand that to be like some hard ship you obviously 2:14:02.640 --> 2:14:04.640 are really good at that. I can imagine that that 2:14:04.680 --> 2:14:07.760 would jump over and then you'd be welcome here because 2:14:07.800 --> 2:14:14.000 it's it's it requires spatial awareness, acquires like organization acquires, 2:14:14.000 --> 2:14:16.480 an ability just to stay calm and think, it requires 2:14:16.480 --> 2:14:20.560 an ability to get along with other people around you, um, 2:14:20.760 --> 2:14:22.920 and so it's like easy to to make the jump. 2:14:23.520 --> 2:14:26.840 So I think that you're probably just being uh. People 2:14:26.880 --> 2:14:29.600 are like, maybe I don't even know that much about 2:14:29.640 --> 2:14:32.440 that ship. I understand that's extremely challenging. If you're that 2:14:32.480 --> 2:14:34.800 good at that, this will be a walk in the park. Yeah, 2:14:34.840 --> 2:14:38.080 I guess, I guess you're right. And I just, um, 2:14:38.160 --> 2:14:42.120 I guess I never really thought it would necessarily cross 2:14:42.200 --> 2:14:45.800 over the same. And it wasn't until those guys who 2:14:46.080 --> 2:14:49.240 have pretty much like well you know, trained me from scratch, 2:14:49.280 --> 2:14:52.000 who they pretty much said that exactly like what you 2:14:52.080 --> 2:14:54.840 just said, they said it to me. Um, No, you 2:14:54.840 --> 2:14:56.880 you've got this like if you said, like all of 2:14:56.920 --> 2:15:00.600 a sudden, like I'm gonna be like way into tennis. Um, 2:15:00.640 --> 2:15:04.200 I don't know that you would then right find that 2:15:04.240 --> 2:15:08.400 you would infiltrate that world just because And then it 2:15:08.560 --> 2:15:11.120 was so neat when I when I did stock that 2:15:11.160 --> 2:15:14.560 sheep to see how much it did cross over, like 2:15:15.040 --> 2:15:18.240 it really like I had no one else there to 2:15:18.400 --> 2:15:20.400 ask or or to blame or to do anything any 2:15:20.400 --> 2:15:22.200 decision I made with my own, and I just had 2:15:22.240 --> 2:15:25.000 to look at that environment in front of me, and 2:15:25.040 --> 2:15:27.600 I just looked for for the shadows in the level. 2:15:27.680 --> 2:15:29.840 I looked for like where to couch down. All that 2:15:29.920 --> 2:15:36.640 kind of stuff and that it really it was very similar. Uh. Oh, 2:15:36.680 --> 2:15:41.160 I gotta ask something real quick to you boys chester Chester. 2:15:41.840 --> 2:15:46.200 Uh talk about your impressions. Had you dove in salt 2:15:46.200 --> 2:15:52.160 water before? No? I tried, No, really, I mean I 2:15:52.200 --> 2:15:57.600 was on a snorkeling excursion kind of as we're fishing 2:15:57.600 --> 2:16:02.400 one time in Mexico, and uh, I remember our guide 2:16:02.480 --> 2:16:06.320 getting out and like diving down to the bottom and 2:16:06.440 --> 2:16:10.640 like looking for stuff and trying that and failing miserably. 2:16:11.440 --> 2:16:15.000 That was with my family back in the day. But yeah, 2:16:15.040 --> 2:16:18.480 I was really really excited to try it. Watching you 2:16:18.600 --> 2:16:23.320 guys um the first day, I didn't have a spear gun. 2:16:23.440 --> 2:16:26.520 I was just swimming around with a snorkel looking at stuff. 2:16:26.840 --> 2:16:30.080 And it is a different world. Like from the top, 2:16:30.200 --> 2:16:33.960 you just can't, I mean from out of the water. 2:16:34.120 --> 2:16:37.720 From out of the water, what's going on? You get 2:16:37.920 --> 2:16:41.119 down there and it it's like cracks and cliffs and 2:16:41.120 --> 2:16:47.039 crevices and um fish everywhere. And I the next day 2:16:47.160 --> 2:16:50.680 I ended up carrying around a three prong with some 2:16:50.840 --> 2:16:54.280 from some fins that I found here at the rental house, 2:16:55.000 --> 2:17:00.600 and uh, I borrowed dirts snorkel and was like messing 2:17:00.640 --> 2:17:03.360 around so you probably borrowed a little bit of chew two. 2:17:04.959 --> 2:17:11.320 Definitely borrowed a little bit. I need some of that, no, um, 2:17:11.959 --> 2:17:15.760 but yeah, I was swimming around by myself, and um, 2:17:16.240 --> 2:17:18.600 I was able to like get to the bottom and 2:17:18.760 --> 2:17:22.440 was like trying to like imagine, Okay, there's like a 2:17:22.440 --> 2:17:25.039 cliff here, so I'm gonna try and dive get to 2:17:25.080 --> 2:17:27.080 the edge of that and like peek over it, you know. 2:17:27.200 --> 2:17:29.720 And then you peek over and you're like, now I 2:17:29.800 --> 2:17:34.720 have no idea what I should go after, you know. Um. 2:17:34.760 --> 2:17:39.360 But I ended up I think, like sticking a fish 2:17:39.400 --> 2:17:41.480 and I didn't get him. It was like one of 2:17:41.520 --> 2:17:44.400 the ones that you guys had in the cooler with 2:17:44.440 --> 2:17:47.920 that three prong But then Steve came up and helped 2:17:47.920 --> 2:17:51.440 me out got I got the big spear gun um. 2:17:51.800 --> 2:17:54.160 And then you know, I was following Steve and he'd 2:17:54.440 --> 2:17:56.760 point out a fish and I look at him and 2:17:56.800 --> 2:18:00.520 sucking water and then spit it out again and point 2:18:00.600 --> 2:18:04.880 out the fish again, you know, and uh, I ended up. 2:18:04.959 --> 2:18:08.600 I think it was like the first got lucky, probably 2:18:08.640 --> 2:18:11.200 the first one or the second one that he pointed out, 2:18:12.360 --> 2:18:17.120 dove down and and shot and was surprised. It's just 2:18:17.360 --> 2:18:19.920 got him right behind the head, and um, you were 2:18:19.959 --> 2:18:23.000 more surprised in the fish maybe. Yeah. I was like, 2:18:23.040 --> 2:18:26.280 holy God, look at Steve and he's like a good job. 2:18:26.360 --> 2:18:29.600 And I got my first fish, So it was awesome. 2:18:29.760 --> 2:18:33.720 Proceeded to miss uh quite a few after and then 2:18:33.879 --> 2:18:36.680 pick my head on the surface and go see where 2:18:36.680 --> 2:18:39.280 Steve was and swim over there so you could load 2:18:39.320 --> 2:18:43.680 the gun again. But it was awesome and I could 2:18:43.680 --> 2:18:47.280 get into this for sure. Yeah, you feel the same way, Seth. 2:18:47.520 --> 2:18:49.480 You're not a water man. You're a water man, but 2:18:49.520 --> 2:18:51.200 you like to you like to probe the world with 2:18:51.240 --> 2:18:54.320 your walleye jig. Yeah. Yeah, I was telling you earlier. 2:18:54.320 --> 2:18:57.280 I like to feel the bottom with my my walleye 2:18:57.320 --> 2:19:01.600 jig rout and look at it. But no, it was 2:19:01.760 --> 2:19:05.400 my first time. I snorkeled a couple of times, like 2:19:05.480 --> 2:19:07.680 up in Maine on the lake when I was younger, 2:19:08.040 --> 2:19:14.119 but first time in the ocean, and when I first 2:19:14.160 --> 2:19:16.120 jumped in just getting used to everything, it was just 2:19:16.200 --> 2:19:21.240 like very stressful at first, like panic mode. I want 2:19:21.240 --> 2:19:26.200 to point out that it was u um, you know, 2:19:26.800 --> 2:19:29.400 like on a scale of one to ten of sort 2:19:29.440 --> 2:19:33.760 of like stressful places too to jump in I feel 2:19:33.800 --> 2:19:36.720 like it was over five because we were up in 2:19:36.760 --> 2:19:40.560 the rocks and there was yeah, some crashing waves. Is 2:19:40.600 --> 2:19:43.720 that like you're in some like lagoon. Yeah, it wasn't 2:19:43.760 --> 2:19:47.800 still water. You feel the forest of the swells coming 2:19:47.840 --> 2:19:51.000 in and in the noise element. I think, like you 2:19:51.040 --> 2:19:53.440 probably can't relate to say more, Kenny, but like there's 2:19:53.480 --> 2:19:57.879 a there's a stress inducing element to like the water 2:19:58.000 --> 2:20:03.760 moving bubbles in the water mouth will kind of make 2:20:03.800 --> 2:20:07.520 everything more intense. And the alarming thing to me was 2:20:07.560 --> 2:20:09.600 like my mask wasn't quite right, and I was like 2:20:09.640 --> 2:20:13.280 getting water up my nose and water down my tube 2:20:13.320 --> 2:20:17.959 and just trying to breathe that stash. Yeah, just trying 2:20:18.000 --> 2:20:22.400 to like you know, breathe normally while looking down in 2:20:22.440 --> 2:20:25.640 the water. Was was this like struggle at first? Once 2:20:25.720 --> 2:20:28.600 kept trying to encourage Seth to find something different to 2:20:28.640 --> 2:20:32.039 do with his hands. Yeah, I was just trying to 2:20:32.040 --> 2:20:36.760 like swim. But yeah, once I kind of got the 2:20:36.840 --> 2:20:39.520 hang of it and settled down, it was awesome after 2:20:39.680 --> 2:20:44.640 hovering over, you know, being in the air, right, you're 2:20:44.680 --> 2:20:47.120 over the ocean for a couple of days. When you 2:20:47.200 --> 2:20:48.879 got your when you got your face down there and 2:20:48.879 --> 2:20:53.680 looked around what was your feeling of finally, Oh, it 2:20:53.760 --> 2:20:56.600 was just like yeah, you like after beating in the 2:20:56.640 --> 2:20:59.680 boat for so many days, just like trying to picture 2:20:59.720 --> 2:21:04.119 what's going on down there. It's so different from when 2:21:04.160 --> 2:21:06.879 you actually stick your face down the wall and you're like, oh, 2:21:07.360 --> 2:21:12.000 that's what's down here, Like this is cool? Yeah, um, 2:21:12.240 --> 2:21:13.959 but no, it's cool. I definitely want to do it 2:21:13.959 --> 2:21:16.040 again and eventually at that point where I go down, 2:21:17.160 --> 2:21:22.360 start hunting, dive down. On another note, real quick, the 2:21:22.440 --> 2:21:27.600 clearing part, Like I basically got my eyeballs sucked out 2:21:27.600 --> 2:21:32.400 of my head yesterday, broke some blood vessels. Yeah, some 2:21:32.480 --> 2:21:35.440 blood was drawn on this track. Yeah. Yeah, when you 2:21:36.440 --> 2:21:39.040 when you go down, everyone is so focused on equalizing 2:21:39.240 --> 2:21:42.560 your ears and clearing your ears. But um, that air 2:21:42.879 --> 2:21:46.039 in your mask definitely starts to compress and compressing it. It 2:21:45.879 --> 2:21:49.400 It will suck your eyeballs right out if you don't 2:21:49.480 --> 2:21:56.200 equalize your mask too. Yeah, Kimmy, do you have any 2:21:56.320 --> 2:21:59.200 uh final things you'd like to talk about that you 2:21:59.240 --> 2:22:02.240 wish I had asked about and didn't ask And then 2:22:02.320 --> 2:22:06.440 also how can people go and see um the work 2:22:06.520 --> 2:22:08.920 that you and Justin put together and like like how 2:22:08.959 --> 2:22:13.119 should people go find you. I think I just um 2:22:13.280 --> 2:22:17.680 more so like curious to you guys, to you and caw, 2:22:17.840 --> 2:22:19.840 like I just want to hear from you about like 2:22:21.000 --> 2:22:23.840 you know, how how how it was, like how this 2:22:23.920 --> 2:22:26.920 whole trip was if you what you feel like you learn? 2:22:27.000 --> 2:22:29.240 Because I know on day one I told you like 2:22:30.040 --> 2:22:33.480 Hawaii is not necessarily the best place to come as 2:22:33.520 --> 2:22:37.199 a beginner, um because it's hard. You know, the fish 2:22:37.480 --> 2:22:40.520 are smart, like they might be everywhere and you can 2:22:40.560 --> 2:22:43.000 see them, but they're definitely don't make it easy on 2:22:43.040 --> 2:22:46.959 you and um, and so more than just me getting 2:22:46.959 --> 2:22:49.240 you on a fish, like, I think the bigger goal 2:22:49.280 --> 2:22:52.600 would be like really to learn how to hunt underwater. 2:22:52.959 --> 2:22:57.200 And for me personally, even though I said that to you, 2:22:58.320 --> 2:23:02.080 I was blown a way as we just did it 2:23:02.200 --> 2:23:04.360 day after day after day, and I really wish we 2:23:04.360 --> 2:23:08.800 were still doing it right now. Um, just watching you 2:23:08.840 --> 2:23:12.320 guys go through these steps and to me it felt 2:23:12.360 --> 2:23:15.640 like you were just learning so much constantly, and I 2:23:15.680 --> 2:23:18.039 just kind of want to know, like, yeah, what was 2:23:18.080 --> 2:23:20.080 that like, Like what did you learn? What did it 2:23:20.160 --> 2:23:24.320 feel like? Oh my gosh, I learned so much. I yes, 2:23:24.440 --> 2:23:28.680 for me, you know, it's like uh, you know, big 2:23:28.720 --> 2:23:32.280 win and and kind of a little disappointing at the 2:23:32.320 --> 2:23:35.320 same time, because like I knew coming into this trip 2:23:35.400 --> 2:23:36.959 that one of the things that I really had to 2:23:37.000 --> 2:23:40.880 fight was just like my eagerness and excitement. And I 2:23:40.959 --> 2:23:44.720 was so excited to be in the water and so excited, 2:23:44.800 --> 2:23:48.440 and and I was every single day, every like every 2:23:48.480 --> 2:23:51.800 minute of every day. You know, it's like, uh, Chester 2:23:51.920 --> 2:23:54.480 in a candy shop, right, He's gonna grab everything you can, 2:23:54.640 --> 2:24:01.640 like really really really going after it. UM And you know, 2:24:01.680 --> 2:24:04.680 I kind of failed at that really, Like I was 2:24:04.760 --> 2:24:07.840 just so excited, like elevated heart rate the whole time, 2:24:07.959 --> 2:24:14.480 just trying to just just really trying to uh you know, 2:24:14.560 --> 2:24:16.920 it's like the old you know, I got a dad 2:24:16.959 --> 2:24:19.440 as a football coach ort or football coach as a 2:24:19.520 --> 2:24:21.760 dad who was like, you know, go go, go, go go, 2:24:22.480 --> 2:24:26.880 and for me, instead of like calming down and slowing down, 2:24:27.600 --> 2:24:31.560 it's like just work really hard and pushed through. It 2:24:31.640 --> 2:24:33.640 is kind of steal what what comes out, and I 2:24:33.680 --> 2:24:37.400 just need to get a better better handle on that. UM. 2:24:37.440 --> 2:24:50.480 But the consistency of finding like very legitimate opportunities, like 2:24:50.640 --> 2:24:56.920 I absolutely no the first time I did this, UM 2:24:57.360 --> 2:25:01.840 part of me was like definitely gott Key had some 2:25:01.920 --> 2:25:05.400 success but definitely got lucky doing it. Um, I wonder 2:25:05.440 --> 2:25:09.280 if I could pull that off again. And you know, 2:25:09.360 --> 2:25:12.039 after this trip, like like I know I can get food, 2:25:13.200 --> 2:25:18.920 which is awesome and a huge accomplishment, right, So like, um, 2:25:18.959 --> 2:25:22.480 the consistency of finding those really good opportunities, even though 2:25:22.520 --> 2:25:25.760 I didn't capitalize on all of them or even a 2:25:25.840 --> 2:25:31.160 third of them, probably, um, is a huge accomplishment. Oh 2:25:31.200 --> 2:25:33.240 my god. But just the fact that you capitalize on 2:25:33.360 --> 2:25:36.040 even like even if it's just one, Like I just 2:25:36.080 --> 2:25:39.800 think that's not that's a huge win. Like you shot 2:25:40.320 --> 2:25:44.280 a legitimateho, like you shot a parrot fish Like that 2:25:44.440 --> 2:25:47.160 was like when I told people you guys were coming, 2:25:47.280 --> 2:25:48.800 Like one of the first thing they said was, well, 2:25:48.800 --> 2:25:50.480 there's no way they'd be able to shoot a new 2:25:50.480 --> 2:25:55.800 who And like like I just think, um, now, the 2:25:55.840 --> 2:25:58.240 fact that you accomplished that, Like I don't I don't 2:25:58.240 --> 2:26:01.080 even know if you realized what you pomplished, because that's 2:26:01.080 --> 2:26:04.840 a big deal. Yeah, I mean, it's just it's it's 2:26:04.840 --> 2:26:06.800 like bitter sweet, I guess what I'm getting at. Like 2:26:06.879 --> 2:26:11.720 watching uh, you know you ingin in the water, like 2:26:11.800 --> 2:26:14.320 part of me is like almost in panic. Mode of like, 2:26:14.360 --> 2:26:16.959 oh my god, did you like squander this opportunity? Did 2:26:17.000 --> 2:26:21.000 you not leach enough knowledge out of those two? Like, 2:26:21.080 --> 2:26:23.680 while you know it's it's right here, did did you 2:26:23.720 --> 2:26:25.920 not get enough out of him? You know that's and 2:26:26.000 --> 2:26:28.040 maybe that's just being in the learning curve, you know. 2:26:29.560 --> 2:26:31.199 I think if my head to look where I got 2:26:32.840 --> 2:26:35.840 this trip, um you have, Like I don't want to 2:26:35.840 --> 2:26:38.080 explain a little bit about my history with being curious 2:26:38.080 --> 2:26:42.640 about it is um. I mentioned earlier we got that 2:26:43.040 --> 2:26:45.680 pols beer when I was ten, and we would go 2:26:45.720 --> 2:26:48.279 out in our lake with an onion sack and shoot 2:26:48.280 --> 2:26:51.199 blue gulls off the bed and stuffed into an onion 2:26:51.240 --> 2:26:53.480 sack illegally, but like when you're a little kid, you 2:26:53.520 --> 2:26:56.320 can do things like if you were growing up in 2:26:56.360 --> 2:26:59.520 that lake, it would last five minutes. But his kids 2:26:59.520 --> 2:27:02.080 like kids, right, So I've always had a little bit 2:27:02.080 --> 2:27:08.080 of that curiosity about it, um. And I always had 2:27:08.120 --> 2:27:09.400 a lot of problems in my ears when I was 2:27:09.400 --> 2:27:12.840 a kid, getting water in my ears, going to like 2:27:13.200 --> 2:27:16.320 ear drum problems, my mom bringing me to the medstop 2:27:16.400 --> 2:27:19.959 like and I uh, I felt like I can't, like 2:27:19.959 --> 2:27:22.640 I'll never be able to spearfish because but my my 2:27:22.800 --> 2:27:25.519 I suffer from my ears all the time, ear infections, 2:27:25.560 --> 2:27:29.080 all kinds of jump um. And then when I started 2:27:29.080 --> 2:27:32.400 to get I kind of presented my friend Greg Fons, 2:27:32.480 --> 2:27:35.120 like this problem. He said that many people feel they 2:27:35.160 --> 2:27:37.280 have that problem. He's always hearing about people that can't 2:27:37.280 --> 2:27:38.960 dive because the ears. But it's just a lot of 2:27:39.000 --> 2:27:41.960 things you need to learn. It's a learned thing. And 2:27:42.040 --> 2:27:46.640 had some of my first like real legitimate spear fishing experiences, 2:27:47.320 --> 2:27:49.880 and he started to supply me with some equipment and 2:27:50.080 --> 2:27:52.480 kind of walked me through the gear. And then I 2:27:52.520 --> 2:27:58.000 was in this world of of uh with the actual gear, 2:27:58.640 --> 2:28:01.440 which is hard to get used to, and then being 2:28:01.440 --> 2:28:04.160 in the water and like trying to learn through a 2:28:04.240 --> 2:28:06.520 thing that you told yourself you can't do, Like like 2:28:06.560 --> 2:28:09.320 I just didn't think I could go under water to 2:28:09.400 --> 2:28:12.640 any real depth six ten ft whatever because I thought 2:28:12.680 --> 2:28:15.760 my ears would get hurt. So I was struggling to 2:28:15.840 --> 2:28:19.480 understand the gear, struggling to get over my fear of 2:28:19.640 --> 2:28:22.360 what would happen to my ears and how to stop 2:28:22.400 --> 2:28:25.720 that from happening to my ears, and then just being 2:28:25.800 --> 2:28:30.840 uncomfortable in an ocean environment and the unknowns right because 2:28:30.840 --> 2:28:33.480 I spent so much time and very comfortable around fresh water, 2:28:34.040 --> 2:28:35.880 but um, there's just a lot less going on as 2:28:35.920 --> 2:28:39.400 much less it's it's much less dynamic environment anywhere in 2:28:39.440 --> 2:28:42.000 fresh water, so it's not moving as much, there's not 2:28:42.040 --> 2:28:44.160 as much depth, there's not as much abundance of life, 2:28:44.280 --> 2:28:47.200 there's not all the unknowns. You know, I could tell 2:28:47.200 --> 2:28:49.120 you most lakes category I said, there is not a 2:28:49.160 --> 2:28:51.560 fish longer than this in this lake, and say it 2:28:51.560 --> 2:28:53.879 with like a lot of certainty that that's the case. 2:28:54.240 --> 2:28:58.760 But in the oceans, like ship, I don't know. It's stressful. Um, 2:28:58.840 --> 2:29:00.360 So I think it for a long time now, the 2:29:00.480 --> 2:29:02.879 last few years, for sure, I've talked about how like 2:29:02.959 --> 2:29:05.120 I want to be a spear fisherman, I would like 2:29:05.200 --> 2:29:09.280 to be a spear fisherman. Um on this trip, or 2:29:09.320 --> 2:29:12.039 like the couple of days of pretty intense training and 2:29:12.160 --> 2:29:14.480 exercise we had, I finally got to a point a 2:29:14.520 --> 2:29:16.520 little bit where I was like, I got comfortable with 2:29:16.560 --> 2:29:20.600 the equipment and I wasn't at any I caught moments 2:29:20.640 --> 2:29:23.200 where I wasn't having like a nagging problem of not 2:29:23.360 --> 2:29:27.920 understanding some aspect of the equipment, like knowing what the 2:29:28.040 --> 2:29:32.400 lead is supposed to feel like my mask isn't inexplicably 2:29:32.480 --> 2:29:37.080 leaking all the time, right, and and I like know 2:29:37.080 --> 2:29:39.879 how to load my own gun, and when it's messed up, 2:29:39.879 --> 2:29:42.240 I'm able to quickly ascertain what's messed up. I don't 2:29:42.240 --> 2:29:44.920 need to go ask somebody. So to hit that point 2:29:44.920 --> 2:29:48.360 where I'm I I I'm comfortable with the gear finally, 2:29:48.400 --> 2:29:51.640 and I can finally look around and I can finally 2:29:51.720 --> 2:29:55.720 understand at least what I need to know about my ears, 2:29:55.800 --> 2:30:00.160 Like there's a there's a pathway to like get like 2:30:00.200 --> 2:30:03.600 here's where my problem occurs. And sometimes I'm able to 2:30:03.640 --> 2:30:06.320 do it. Sometimes I don't, but I'm able to be 2:30:06.360 --> 2:30:09.640 like here's why that didn't Here's why that dive didn't work. 2:30:10.320 --> 2:30:13.160 I guess I for the first Like there's a day 2:30:13.280 --> 2:30:15.879 or two days here where I felt like, um, I 2:30:15.959 --> 2:30:21.080 was actually spear fishing and that wasn't just overwhelmed with 2:30:23.080 --> 2:30:25.000 anxiety and like what the hell is this thing for? 2:30:25.240 --> 2:30:27.520 And why is that that way? And is it normal 2:30:27.560 --> 2:30:30.880 that I can't see ship because it's all foggy? You know? 2:30:31.560 --> 2:30:34.120 I didn't drink a gallon of salt water today because 2:30:34.120 --> 2:30:39.640 I can't remember where the snorkel isn't isn't or Greg 2:30:39.680 --> 2:30:43.000 Fons remember this. I didn't lose my snorkel. You know. 2:30:43.520 --> 2:30:45.720 I just like God, like I'm here, I'm actually here. 2:30:46.600 --> 2:30:49.680 I'm fishing, you know, And I felt good, man, it 2:30:49.720 --> 2:30:51.840 felt good to be like to have some moments where 2:30:51.840 --> 2:30:56.600 I was there. Yeah. I think it was really good 2:30:56.600 --> 2:30:59.240 that you guys both It seems that you both came 2:31:00.040 --> 2:31:03.199 with a lot of that just figured out which was cool. 2:31:03.320 --> 2:31:06.360 Like you guys both seem to have your gear dialed 2:31:06.440 --> 2:31:09.680 and every because like even um, you know when when 2:31:09.720 --> 2:31:11.760 Seth was talking about just like getting in as you 2:31:11.760 --> 2:31:14.560 get a whole different world, and like I all, like 2:31:14.640 --> 2:31:16.879 I think, was like that must just be so crazy 2:31:17.000 --> 2:31:19.400 to just have your face in the water for the 2:31:19.440 --> 2:31:22.480 first time and just to tell yourself to breathe, you know, 2:31:22.600 --> 2:31:25.360 like we're not used to breathing through snarkles, and when 2:31:25.360 --> 2:31:27.720 you are used to your face being wet and in water, 2:31:27.879 --> 2:31:30.320 like I would think that just your reflex would be 2:31:30.440 --> 2:31:31.840 And I see all the time people just put their 2:31:31.840 --> 2:31:33.320 head out of the water to breathe. They don't want 2:31:33.360 --> 2:31:35.920 to breathe thro their snarkle. They don't trust it, and 2:31:36.000 --> 2:31:38.400 it takes a long time. I think to get kind 2:31:38.400 --> 2:31:43.560 of dialed and comfortable with your gear then with yeah, 2:31:43.600 --> 2:31:48.879 this crazy different world, and I guess I'm yeah, I'm 2:31:48.879 --> 2:31:51.560 just glad that you guys put in the time that 2:31:51.600 --> 2:31:56.800 you did prior because you came. I don't know, I 2:31:56.840 --> 2:31:59.320 feel I feel like you're both spear fisher men, like 2:31:59.360 --> 2:32:03.080 I definitely do. I think, UM, when I hear you say, oh, 2:32:03.120 --> 2:32:05.240 I want to be a spear fisherman, like you know, 2:32:05.360 --> 2:32:10.560 you know, I know that you could go and, like 2:32:10.600 --> 2:32:14.039 you said, get dinner and go feed yourself like like exactly, 2:32:14.040 --> 2:32:15.760 even just like found an octopus. And I know that 2:32:15.840 --> 2:32:18.840 kind of stuff happens by chance. It happens like when 2:32:18.879 --> 2:32:20.360 you're just in the right place at the right time. 2:32:20.400 --> 2:32:24.840 But that is spear fishing. And UM, I just think 2:32:24.879 --> 2:32:29.760 it's it's super cool to see that you guys can 2:32:29.840 --> 2:32:34.360 now enter this underwater world and just leave with dinner, 2:32:34.800 --> 2:32:38.640 you know, very cool, very cool. Can I ask what 2:32:38.920 --> 2:32:42.160 you two are doing next? Yeah? And roll in the 2:32:42.240 --> 2:32:46.640 how do people find you? Part of that? Um? We 2:32:46.720 --> 2:32:50.720 have no idea what we're really doing. UM, but we 2:32:51.200 --> 2:32:53.800 I mean, we created a YouTube channel. We created a 2:32:53.800 --> 2:32:57.640 YouTube stop real quick because like the WI the first 2:32:57.640 --> 2:33:00.800 time that we actually met. So we met through some friends. 2:33:01.160 --> 2:33:04.000 Kimmy was doing a talk in in Catching, where I 2:33:04.080 --> 2:33:07.119 used to live, and and we ended up having many 2:33:07.240 --> 2:33:10.920 many talks when we overlapped on that trip, and and uh, 2:33:12.040 --> 2:33:16.840 there was It's it's funny that one of the conversations 2:33:16.920 --> 2:33:22.280 was like, uh, Kimmy's an international traveler, international woman of mystery, 2:33:22.360 --> 2:33:25.760 like going all around the world spear fishing everywhere, and 2:33:25.760 --> 2:33:32.680 and just got this incredibly supportive boyfriend, a long time boyfriend. Um, 2:33:32.720 --> 2:33:37.280 justin at home, and you had set this like, um 2:33:37.600 --> 2:33:41.000 kind of date for yourself for benchmark to like, well, 2:33:41.000 --> 2:33:43.440 I thought I would start a family at this point, 2:33:43.480 --> 2:33:46.160 but that's kind of I've already passed that now. And 2:33:46.160 --> 2:33:52.160 there's all these other events and and things going on right. Uh, 2:33:52.200 --> 2:33:57.560 but you know, like as the world turns, it's like married, baby, 2:33:58.959 --> 2:34:03.240 and and so what's next. Yeah, that that is that's 2:34:03.240 --> 2:34:06.840 all very true. Um. And it's crazy like with that 2:34:06.920 --> 2:34:11.000 transition from going from just like traveling all the time constantly, 2:34:11.520 --> 2:34:13.320 see then all of that is coming to a screeching 2:34:13.360 --> 2:34:17.200 halt um with with having a baby and then COVID 2:34:17.200 --> 2:34:22.200 happening at the exact same time. Um, we I ended 2:34:22.280 --> 2:34:25.840 up staying home and it's ended up being the smoothest transition. 2:34:26.600 --> 2:34:30.280 Um somehow, Like I thought i'd get itchy, I thought 2:34:30.320 --> 2:34:33.640 I'd missed traveling, and Justin and I just ended up 2:34:34.040 --> 2:34:38.240 creating this YouTube channel together and just really filming the 2:34:38.280 --> 2:34:41.640 adventures of everyone backyard. It's a lot of spear fishing 2:34:41.680 --> 2:34:45.760 pretty much every episode. We're going out, going, diving, getting food, 2:34:46.080 --> 2:34:48.000 cooking it up, trying to do it all with our 2:34:48.200 --> 2:34:51.320 baby buddy in toe and um and that is a 2:34:51.360 --> 2:34:55.039 whole another fun adventure and challenge of its own, and 2:34:55.240 --> 2:34:59.720 it's just kept me so entertained and kept us so busy. Um. 2:34:59.760 --> 2:35:01.959 And we've done that for a year now. We put 2:35:02.000 --> 2:35:05.720 out an episode a week for a year, one year 2:35:05.720 --> 2:35:08.600 and we just finished that year and now we're just 2:35:08.640 --> 2:35:11.640 trying to feel where the inspiration is going. Yeah, take 2:35:11.680 --> 2:35:14.880 a great break and kind of recollect. That's a lot 2:35:14.920 --> 2:35:19.320 of work. One episode a week with the baby that 2:35:19.400 --> 2:35:23.279 was a what's the YouTube channel? It's just called Kimmy Werner. Yeah. 2:35:23.360 --> 2:35:25.800 I think it's like at kay, I am I Space 2:35:25.879 --> 2:35:29.280 Warner and on Instagram you're Kimmy Swimmy. I am Kimmy Swimmy. Yeah. 2:35:30.400 --> 2:35:34.440 It is k I am I underscore s W I 2:35:34.720 --> 2:35:41.080 M M y and uh we're here filming so with 2:35:41.080 --> 2:35:44.240 with with Kimmy as a guest on our show, which 2:35:44.240 --> 2:35:47.600 will come out on Netflix next fall. And Justin all 2:35:47.680 --> 2:35:51.440 the underwater photography you'll be all see his handy word 2:35:52.320 --> 2:36:01.360 which the clips we're seeing good watching you guys the 2:36:01.480 --> 2:36:04.680 Holy Holy our favorite fish and just the surge and 2:36:04.720 --> 2:36:07.840 getting whacked against rocks and just like you guys coming 2:36:07.920 --> 2:36:10.200 up with one because it's not easy, and seeing how 2:36:10.280 --> 2:36:12.320 much you learned in those couple of days and applying 2:36:12.360 --> 2:36:14.800 it to like going back to the three prong and 2:36:14.840 --> 2:36:17.720 going back to small fish. You guys succeeded and that 2:36:17.760 --> 2:36:20.840 was really cool. Yeah, Justin had to wear a lot 2:36:20.879 --> 2:36:22.600 of hats, So I feel like we really need to 2:36:22.640 --> 2:36:24.960 make sure he gets his do here when you watch 2:36:25.240 --> 2:36:28.760 when you watch um, when you watch me Eating on 2:36:28.840 --> 2:36:31.840 Netflix and you get to the spearfishing episode with Kimmy 2:36:32.080 --> 2:36:37.120 all the underwater workers, Justin he was a mentor. Might 2:36:37.400 --> 2:36:38.840 I might put on the credits that I did it? 2:36:41.040 --> 2:36:42.560 Know you guys, do you all have shots because you 2:36:42.600 --> 2:36:48.279 were wearing GoPros and stuff, so you guys get credit, right? No, No, cinema. 2:36:49.160 --> 2:36:53.040 Yeah yeah, spell your deal out, uh cinema c I 2:36:53.240 --> 2:36:56.400 N E M A t OW s k I. My 2:36:56.480 --> 2:37:00.000 name is Justin Turkowsky a combination of it. But yeah 2:37:00.080 --> 2:37:02.800 and then um yeah, So check these guys out on Instagram, 2:37:02.879 --> 2:37:07.240 check out the YouTube channel, and thanks and stay tuned 2:37:07.400 --> 2:37:11.080 because we'll you will get up close and personal with 2:37:11.800 --> 2:37:15.800 Kimmy Werner on an upcoming episode of Meat Eater, which will, 2:37:15.840 --> 2:37:19.440 like I said, will come out next fall. So till 2:37:19.480 --> 2:37:22.160 then hangs off. All right, thanks guys, appreciate it, Thank you, 2:37:22.360 --> 2:37:23.000 Thanks guys,