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Speaker 1: Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck

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Speaker 1: Sexton Show podcast. Welcome in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show.

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Speaker 2: Appreciate all of you hanging out with us.

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Speaker 1: Thursday edition of the program, and we can say as

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Speaker 1: we join you today, something unprecedented in the truest sense

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Speaker 1: of the word, is actually underway. The states of Colorado

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Speaker 1: and Maine are arguing that Donald Trump should not be

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Speaker 1: on the ballot for the twenty twenty four election because

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Speaker 1: they are saying that he actually has violated the Constitution

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Speaker 1: and is not eligible. And they are making the argument

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Speaker 1: that he violated the Constitution as it was amended to

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Speaker 1: deal with Confederate soldiers.

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Speaker 2: I am a Civil War history buff.

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Speaker 1: I have to admit, Buck, I never thought that the

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Speaker 1: legacy of the Civil War as it pertains to who's

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Speaker 1: eligible to be elected president of the United States would

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Speaker 1: be a focal point of any Supreme Court argument in

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Speaker 1: my lifetime. Certainly not in the twenty first century. But

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Speaker 1: that is where we are as the lawfair against Trump

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Speaker 1: continues to build. I understand for a lot of people

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Speaker 1: out there, it's kind of hard to even keep tabs

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Speaker 1: on all of the different storylines out there circulating whether

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Speaker 1: it's E. Gene Carroll, whether it's Alvin Bragg, whether it's

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Speaker 1: Letitia James and the business related case, whether it's down

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Speaker 1: in South Florida with the classified documents in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 1: With January sixth, in Atlanta, Georgia, with everything that happened

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Speaker 1: in the state of Georgia, and now in front of

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. Unprecedented as Colorado and Maine have taken

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump off the ballot and are arguing that he

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Speaker 1: is ineligible to be the president of the United States.

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Speaker 2: Now, let's play a couple of cuts.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we'll even go jump in and listen to a

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Speaker 1: bit of this live, as it is an unprecedented and

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Speaker 1: historic argument that is currently taking place in the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: But here is Trump's attorney Jonathan Mitchell, responding to questions

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Speaker 1: from Katanji Brown Jackson, saying straight up, it was not

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Speaker 1: an insurrection, a strong part of his argument. Let's play

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Speaker 1: cut one.

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Speaker 3: I read your opening brief to accept that those events

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Speaker 3: counted as an insurrection, but then your reply seemed to

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Speaker 3: suggest that they were not.

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Speaker 2: So what is your positions.

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Speaker 4: We never accepted or conceded in our opening brief that

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Speaker 4: this was an insurrection. What we said in our opening

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Speaker 4: brief was President Trump did not engage in any act

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Speaker 4: that can plausibly be characterized as insurrection.

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Speaker 3: Right, So why would that not be an What is

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Speaker 3: your argument that it's not? Your reply brief says that

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Speaker 3: it wasn't because I think you say it did not

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Speaker 3: involve an organized attempt to overthrow the government.

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Speaker 4: So that's one of many reasons. But for an insurrection,

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Speaker 4: there needs to be an organized, concerted effort to overthrow

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Speaker 4: the government of the United States through violence.

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Speaker 3: And this point is that a chaotic effort to overthrow

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Speaker 3: the government is not an insurrection.

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Speaker 4: But we didn't concede that it's an effort to overthrow

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Speaker 4: the government either. Justice Jackson, right. None of these criteria

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Speaker 4: were met. This was a riot, It was not an insurrection.

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Speaker 4: The events were shameful, criminal, violent, all of those things,

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Speaker 4: but did not qualify as insurrection as that term is

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Speaker 4: used in section three.

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Speaker 5: That is excellent work by that attorney on the absolutely

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Speaker 5: critical issue here, Clay. I remember I wrote, I think

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Speaker 5: it was back in twenty twenty or twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 5: an op ed where I just said, anyone who says

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Speaker 5: this is an insurrection is an idiot or a liar.

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Speaker 5: It's clearly not an insurrection. And let's just take a

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Speaker 5: step back. I think the lawyer there did a good

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Speaker 5: job of arguing this on behalf of the Trump campaign.

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Speaker 5: But keep in mind, it's not just a person here

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Speaker 5: that they are saying was trying to overthrow the government.

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Speaker 5: They are explicitly stating that the commander in chief of

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Speaker 5: the most powerful military in the history of the world,

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Speaker 5: all of human history, somehow was trying to overthrow the

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Speaker 5: government without a single armed person doing anything to anyone. Okay,

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Speaker 5: that somehow the guy who has at his disposal the

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Speaker 5: nuclear codes the branches of the United States military. Now

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Speaker 5: you could say the military would have refused a lawful order.

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Speaker 6: Okay, But if Trump had told.

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Speaker 1: You know, a marine expeditionary for the military at all, buck, hey,

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Speaker 1: I need you to go to the Capitol and try

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Speaker 1: to prevent a proceeding from taking place, that's an insurrection.

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Speaker 5: That's an insurrection, and it's not hard. He was somebody

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Speaker 5: who had the full capability to try an insurrection if

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Speaker 5: Donald Trump had wanted to, and it would have been

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Speaker 5: a definitional I would have been the clearest possible insurrection,

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Speaker 5: which is party in power says, you know what, We're

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Speaker 5: using the military to subvert the democratic process and overthrow

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Speaker 5: the peaceful transfer of power. If Trump had did that, yes,

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Speaker 5: it would have been an insurrection. We would not be

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Speaker 5: sitting here arguing about this. It would have been clear. Okay,

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Speaker 5: that's not what happened. And I'm sorry, but we can't

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Speaker 5: forget the political party and the political ideology. The Democrats

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Speaker 5: who embraced months of riots to intimidate the American population

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Speaker 5: going into an election year and pretended that somehow people

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Speaker 5: burning down buildings and looting drug stores and punching cops

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Speaker 5: and throwing bottles of urine at them, not one time

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Speaker 5: at one over excited protest, but for months and months,

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Speaker 5: for the summer of BLM two point zero twenty twenty,

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Speaker 5: that they lionized these individuals, that they held them up

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Speaker 5: as civil rights heroes. They're going to lecture us now

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Speaker 5: and try to prevent the political process from playing out

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Speaker 5: based on our riot that happened.

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Speaker 6: That's really how this is going to go.

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Speaker 5: You know, I'm I'm happy that the Supreme Court, I

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Speaker 5: think Clay is going to come to the right conclusion

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Speaker 5: here but everyone should be appalled at the fact that

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Speaker 5: you're so to my Ore and Catangi Brown Jackson Jackson,

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Speaker 5: I can assure you, I think this was an insurrection,

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Speaker 5: and if they could, they would keep Donald Trump off

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Speaker 5: the ballot. I don't think you're going to get a

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Speaker 5: nine oh here, I hope we get a nine to oh.

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Speaker 5: I think I hope we get a nine. I do

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Speaker 5: think because we will.

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Speaker 6: I don't.

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Speaker 5: I think a Tangy Brown Jackson and so do my

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Speaker 5: Ore are going to say this was an insurrection.

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Speaker 6: Trump should be off the ballot.

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Speaker 5: That's how By the way, I hope that I'm wrong,

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Speaker 5: because that's appalling, but I think that they will, and

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Speaker 5: that tells you a lot.

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Speaker 1: Well if that happens, I hope Elena Kagan at least

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Speaker 1: leaves behind the My biggest concern, Buck is that we

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Speaker 1: get a six ' to three verdict, right, and it

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Speaker 1: is everybody on the left of the Supreme Court says

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Speaker 1: Trump should be removed from a ballot, and then they

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Speaker 1: have to file a descent and they have to set

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Speaker 1: that precedent as a descent out there for years and

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Speaker 1: years into the future, hundreds of years, hopefully maybe even

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Speaker 1: at the thousand years.

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Speaker 2: Who knows how long our republic will stand.

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Speaker 1: But the precedent that they set here is going to

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Speaker 1: echo throughout generation. So that's why I hope it's an IINO.

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Speaker 1: I hope it is an IO. I fear that it's

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Speaker 1: going to be a six to three. I hope at

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Speaker 1: minimum to your point that it's a seven to two.

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Speaker 1: So at least Elena Kagan can break off and not

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Speaker 1: be straight political.

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Speaker 2: In terms of I want to tell you why I

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Speaker 2: think demarcation are.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's I mean, I might now want

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Speaker 5: to amend and say it it'll be six three. I

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Speaker 5: am very confident that Soda Mayor and Jackson will we'll

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Speaker 5: go along with this this fantasy, this mythology that it's

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Speaker 5: an insurrection. And also, how do you have due process

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Speaker 5: if it's just an argument in the public square that

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Speaker 5: you can be taken off because people say so, right,

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Speaker 5: I mean that the whole thing is not the public

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Speaker 5: square argument is the ballot box. That's how this the

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Speaker 5: only way that this whole thing for Trump should be solved.

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Speaker 5: And any adult, any like sentient, emotionally stable adult, can

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Speaker 5: see this is let the people vote, Let's see what

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Speaker 5: the American people actually really think right. I mean, that's

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Speaker 5: what I think. Kagan, I didn't want to skip past this.

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Speaker 5: Kagan knows that as a matter of law, this is absurd,

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Speaker 5: but she's also a leftist and she may feel too

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Speaker 5: much pressure, you know what I mean. I think she

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Speaker 5: recognizes in her heart that this is crazy, but she

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Speaker 5: may go along with the other two because this is

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Speaker 5: so emotionally devastating to the left. The fact that Donald

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Speaker 5: Trump may actually be able to run and win.

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Speaker 2: I think the idea of it being a descent that.

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Speaker 1: You have to write and for people out there who

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Speaker 1: don't really think a lot about this, Scullia was an

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Speaker 1: expert at this. There have been many great dissenters over

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Speaker 1: the course of the Supreme Court's history. And the great

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Speaker 1: thing about a dissent is you're writing for the future

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Speaker 1: and argument that you believe in today, and you're trying

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Speaker 1: to lay the groundwork to win a case maybe twenty fifty,

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Speaker 1: maybe one hundred years from now, based on a really

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Speaker 1: strong argument that you firmly believe in that could carry

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Speaker 1: the day in the future. The one reason why I'm

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Speaker 1: optimistic a little tiny bit buck that we could get

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Speaker 1: a nine to zero is. I think this dissent if

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Speaker 1: they say that Trump should be taken off the ballot.

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Speaker 1: I think when you move away from the passions of

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Speaker 1: the moment, which is what a court is supposed to do,

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Speaker 1: not be taken up. What did Benjamin Franklin say back

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Speaker 1: in the day, passion rules and she never rules wisely

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Speaker 1: a lot of times the moment, you know, think about

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Speaker 1: buck what they said, I mean Kormatsu, I believe it

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Speaker 1: was where they said, hey, you can put Japanese people

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Speaker 1: in internment camps and it takes a long time.

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Speaker 5: Supreme Court upheld it right, that's it. No federal branch

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Speaker 5: did it. And then the Supreme Court said yeah.

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Speaker 1: And that was obviously reacting in real time to what

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Speaker 1: was going on in the World War two elements and

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Speaker 1: the passions of the moment. And then they come back

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Speaker 1: on it and they're like, man, this was an embarrassment

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Speaker 1: of the court. I think twenty years, forty years from now,

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Speaker 1: this could be an embarrassment to the court. And I

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Speaker 1: think writing a dissent, Kagan, I think would get that

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Speaker 1: better than most. Sotomayor you may be right, and Katanji

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Speaker 1: Brown Jackson may be such leftists that they would not

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Speaker 1: be able to rise to the level of thinking about

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Speaker 1: the history that they're making and what that descent would

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Speaker 1: look like for years to come. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: there are people out there who are intelligent we should

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Speaker 1: play this. I mean, this is judge, former federal judge Luddig,

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Speaker 1: who is a Republican and is a conservative and obviously

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Speaker 1: hates Trump, but he was one of these individuals who

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Speaker 1: even started this argument. To be fair, it's not just

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Speaker 1: the leftists who have made the art argument that Trump.

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Speaker 1: I disagree with it, but it's not just leftifs to

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Speaker 1: have made this argument. Here's cut two that there is

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Speaker 1: I don't know twenty percent of the legal community probably

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Speaker 1: that would subscribe to the idea that Trump is not

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Speaker 1: eligible anymore. Here is letting a former Federal Circuit Court judge,

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Speaker 1: I think, listen to him.

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Speaker 7: Cut to There's no question whatsoever that the former president

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Speaker 7: engaged in an insurrection against the Constitution when he attempted

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Speaker 7: to remain in power beyond his constitutional term of four years.

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Speaker 7: This is precisely the insurrection that just qualifies one under

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Speaker 7: Section three of the fourteenth Amendment. But there's such massive

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Speaker 7: political consequences that although the Supreme Court ought not consider those.

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Speaker 7: Undoubtedly they will consider them, but the constitution requires the

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Speaker 7: disqualification of the former president.

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Speaker 6: Okay, hold on a second.

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Speaker 5: First of all, it's a horrible argu okay, because all

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Speaker 5: you have then is any part is in state can

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Speaker 5: keep at any point in time a presidential candidate off

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Speaker 5: the ballot because they say, so, okay, there's no process here.

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Speaker 5: Trump has not been adjudicated to have engaged in any crime,

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Speaker 5: never mind insurrection. But beyond that, for a second, you

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Speaker 5: look at this. They're conflating, and I think this is critical.

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Speaker 5: They're conflating the Trump efforts, which they've also tried to criminalize,

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Speaker 5: but put that aside. They're conflating the Trump efforts to

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Speaker 5: challenge via legal argument the election outcome and people on

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Speaker 5: their own volition gathering and then some portion of those people.

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Speaker 5: It was remember there were one hundred thousand people gathered

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Speaker 5: in DC and a few thousand of them went to

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Speaker 5: the Capitol and then even a smaller percentage of that

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Speaker 5: engage in actual criminal behavior. And they're acting like those

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Speaker 5: are the same thing. Effectively, Trump having his legal team

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Speaker 5: questioning different things and coming up with strategies. Whether you

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Speaker 5: agree with the strategies or not is not the same

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Speaker 5: thing as people breaking the law on attacking cops on

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Speaker 5: Capitol Hill?

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Speaker 6: Did Trump say attack cops? Did Trump say.

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Speaker 2: Stop the peaceful transfer of power?

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Speaker 8: No?

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Speaker 5: In fact, he's on video saying have your voices heard peacefully?

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Speaker 5: Now they can be upset that Trump didn't shut it

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Speaker 5: down sooner, we can be upset that this is a

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Speaker 5: political blunder that we still have to deal with years later.

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Speaker 5: But nonetheless they're conflating trump legal arguments with criminal acts.

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Speaker 5: And then the even bigger conflation is the criminal acts

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Speaker 5: of a riot amounting to an insurrection. There are leaps

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Speaker 5: here that simply are not in evidence.

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Speaker 1: I want to play a couple of more cuts as

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Speaker 1: we move through this hour, because I think this is

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Speaker 1: such a significant day and I think that's well said.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing I would I would ask people

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Speaker 1: to think about is buck what would the political process

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Speaker 1: look like today if jan six never happened. They probably

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Speaker 1: are still coming after Trump for calls that he made

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Speaker 1: surrounding Georgia everything else. But I think the legacy of

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Speaker 1: January sixth four Democrats as a politically cogent message is

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Speaker 1: dying a little bit more every day, and we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about that as well. And I think ultimately this question

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Speaker 1: comes down to and I think in the back of

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Speaker 1: their minds that the justices are going to be.

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Speaker 2: Thinking about it.

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Speaker 1: Do we want one hundred and fifty million people to

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Speaker 1: be able to make a choice about whether or not

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Speaker 1: they think Trump is qualified to be president of the

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Speaker 1: United States? Or do we want nine jurors sitting on

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court right now? And I would even extend

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Speaker 1: it further Buck or twelve members of a jury in Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. I want as many people as possible weighing

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Speaker 1: in as opposed to a few.

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Speaker 5: This is a fundamentally political question, and Democrats subverting the

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Speaker 5: political process in the name of saving it are doing

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Speaker 5: violence to the constitution.

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Speaker 2: Well said.

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Speaker 1: Look, I just I'm out in Las Vegas right now.

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Speaker 1: I landed right after our show you guys heard, I

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Speaker 1: had to leave early, came out here running around. Our

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Speaker 5: Welcome back into Clay and Bock big arguments today before

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Speaker 5: the Supreme Court? Can Colorado kick Trump off the presidential

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Speaker 5: ballot because of insurrection? Here is Justice Kagan showing a

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Speaker 5: little bit of skepticism, I think too the lawyer in Colorado,

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Speaker 5: the Solicitor general who's making the case here for the

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Speaker 5: state of Colorado. Play twenty five.

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Speaker 9: And then the question becomes, does anything in the fourteenth

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Speaker 9: Amendment say that only Congress can create that process? And

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Speaker 9: Section five very clearly is not an exclusive provision. It

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Speaker 9: says Congress shall have power that they've been.

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Speaker 3: Put most boldly, I think that's the question that you

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Speaker 3: have to confront is why a single state should decide

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Speaker 3: who gets to be president of the.

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Speaker 5: Run by lunatics of either party. I mean, their lunatics

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Speaker 5: are much worse than ours, but they could just say, yeah,

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Speaker 5: I know, you're not allowed to be on the ballot here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes that's where I say you have to kind

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Speaker 1: of strip down all of the legal ease, because you

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Speaker 1: can get bogged down in all of the wording and

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Speaker 1: all of the challenges and just come back to is

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Speaker 1: this in any way a good precedent to be setting

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Speaker 1: in America? If Trump is uniquely unqualified to be president

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Speaker 1: of the United States, then he should get his ass

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Speaker 1: kicked in the election. That's how we resolve this.

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Speaker 5: Trump is live now, Clay will come to him if

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Speaker 5: he's still alive when we come back, and we'll bring

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Speaker 5: everybody the latest on what Trump is saying in response

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Speaker 5: to this, so we'll get to it, no doubt.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back in Clay, Travis Buck Sexton show forty five himself.

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Speaker 1: President Trump is addressing the Supreme Court oral arguments right now.

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Speaker 1: Why to join that in progress and let you hear

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Speaker 1: from him very much?

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Speaker 2: Did we literally join right as he finished?

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Speaker 5: You and act of the Sudden phil to be part

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Speaker 5: of legal and otherwise.

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Speaker 10: Leading up to the day.

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Speaker 11: And there was young voice by the mission holds public

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Speaker 11: from leader all right, I got I got yeah, I

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Speaker 11: got yes, And he doesn't say that anymore. So let

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Speaker 11: me just tell you that I heard and I watched.

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Speaker 11: And the one thing I'll say is.

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Speaker 10: They kept saying about what I said right after the

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Speaker 10: insurrection because I think it was an insurrection posed by

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Speaker 10: Nancy Melosi. This was an insurrection.

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Speaker 11: If it was an insurrection, which there were no guns

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Speaker 11: that would know anything except for the fact that they

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Speaker 11: shot Ashley Batman. Somebody from last for shot Ashley Batman,

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Speaker 11: so unnecessary, so sad, so horrible.

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Speaker 10: But there were no guns, they would know anything.

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Speaker 11: But if you take a look at my words right after,

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Speaker 11: you take a look at my speech from the Rose Garden,

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Speaker 11: which was very shortly after, or you take a look.

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Speaker 10: At my I'm only on truth now, but at that

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Speaker 10: time we were tweeting, and I was on Twitter.

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Speaker 11: If you take a look at those five or six tweets,

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Speaker 11: you'll see very beautiful, very heartwarming statements. Go home, the

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Speaker 11: police are doing their job, et cetera, et cetera, beautiful statements.

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Speaker 11: If you see my statement made in the Rose Garden,

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Speaker 11: I think you have to watch that.

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Speaker 10: Today they said the words of Trump.

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Speaker 11: Now, if you take a look at the words of

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Speaker 11: Democrats over the last period of time, look at humor

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Speaker 11: statement about the Supreme Court on the steps of the

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Speaker 11: Supreme burd He sounded like a mob boss.

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Speaker 10: Take a look at any of them. Take a look

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Speaker 10: at we put together a tape of vision violent statements

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Speaker 10: made by Democrats. Nobody brings that.

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Speaker 11: Take a look at vaccine waters and the vicious statements

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Speaker 11: that you made.

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Speaker 10: I didn't do that.

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Speaker 11: I said peacefully and patriotically. The speech was called peacefully

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Speaker 11: and patriotically. It's pete peacefully and patriotically.

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Speaker 10: He said, I said bad statement.

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Speaker 11: It was the exact opposite. So I think you should

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Speaker 11: take a look at the statements that I made before

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Speaker 11: and after, and you'll see a whole, a whole different dialogue.

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Speaker 10: You just mentioned Chinese presidence.

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Speaker 9: You said that you were going to be a post

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Speaker 9: sixty percent sais give that office.

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Speaker 11: Still, we want to bring business back to the US.

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Speaker 11: They're stealing our business. They're taking our business and levels

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Speaker 11: and nobody's ever seen before. By doing that, we bring

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Speaker 11: business back, manufacturing back to.

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Speaker 10: The United States, which I was doing.

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Speaker 11: I took in hundreds of billions of dollars from China.

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Speaker 11: No president had ever taken in ten cents, not ten cents.

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Speaker 10: I took in.

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Speaker 11: Hundreds of billions of dollars, and jobs were coming back.

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Speaker 10: I was saving steel companies. Now they are blowing it.

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Speaker 11: When I see US steel being bought by Japan, what

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Speaker 11: a sad thing that is to me?

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Speaker 10: What a sad thing that is.

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Speaker 11: So we want to bring jobs back, very simple things.

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Speaker 7: You see, John sat after the Fale perks.

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Speaker 11: Each month effort I do have coment me very much,

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Speaker 11: do I think he's very he's a very good man,

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Speaker 11: and I have great confidence.

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Speaker 7: Celebrates from your dominating in Nicoleste.

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Speaker 11: Oh, I love that question. Thank you very much, you

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Speaker 11: just said it. I don't know why she continues, but

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Speaker 11: let her continue. We have a big one coming up,

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Speaker 11: as you know, in South Carolina, and the polls are

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Speaker 11: indicating that we're we're through the roof of that one.

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Speaker 11: We're we're leading by I guess thirty five percent, thirty

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Speaker 11: five points.

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Speaker 10: So I don't know.

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Speaker 11: I think she hurts herself, but I think she hurts

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Speaker 11: the party and in a way hurts the country. But

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Speaker 11: it seems to be dying. She did poorly in Iowa,

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Speaker 11: she did very poorly. And Iowa actually she came in

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Speaker 11: third place Ronda Santis Peter, although you wouldn't know that

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Speaker 11: if you listen to her speech. She did Pourleian Will Hampshire,

442
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 11: she did pully no matter where she went.

443
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 10: I don't know how.

444
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 11: The results aren't in yet from the Virgin Islands, but

445
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 11: I know she's playing it very hard.

446
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:29,640
Speaker 10: And in Nevada.

447
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 11: She she lost to no name, she had no name,

448
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 11: and she lost by I guess forty points.

449
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 10: So I don't know why.

450
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 11: She continues, but she's a you know, I don't really

451
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:43,360
Speaker 11: care if she continues.

452
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 10: It's it's I think it's bad for the party. I

453
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 10: think it's actually bad.

454
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 11: For her too.

455
00:23:53,280 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 10: Thank you.

456
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 7: Well.

457
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 11: I can say Presidential immunity, which we'll be talking about

458
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 11: because that would be upcoming, is very very important for president.

459
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 11: If a president doesn't have community, he really doesn't have

460
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 11: a presidency. He can be told to do things that

461
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,880
Speaker 11: he would never do. He can do really bad things

462
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 11: for our country. Presidential immunity is imperative. It's going to

463
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 11: be very very important, and I'd rather talk about that

464
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 11: next week. But there is nothing more important to a

465
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 11: presidency than immunity because they have to be free to

466
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 11: make decisions without saying, oh, if I do this or

467
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 11: if I do that.

468
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 10: As soon as I get out of office, we're.

469
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 11: Going to be indicted. We're going to have trouble. And

470
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 11: the other party will do that. I think we've seen

471
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 11: that they do that. There's some very bad people, and

472
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 11: you have an opposition party and they will do things

473
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 11: that are very bad. If you don't have community. You

474
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 11: can be black men, you can be as a president.

475
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 11: They'll say if you don't do business, so this, We're

476
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 11: gonna indict you as soon as you leave office. You

477
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 11: cannot allow a president to be out there without immunity.

478
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,719
Speaker 11: They don't have immunity, You don't have a presidency.

479
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 10: You lose all. Excuse me, you lose all. You lose

480
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 10: all for them.

481
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: We're gonna have free by the way, we're gonna go

482
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: ahead and pull out of here.

483
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 2: We're gonna have the crew modestly.

484
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 1: A historic hearing that occurred today over whether Colorado and

485
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: Maine can pull Donald Trump.

486
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 2: Off of their ballot.

487
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: But if we're talking about Trump b Biden, which I

488
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: think we're gonna be talking about for like the next

489
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: nine months, Joe Biden couldn't do what you just heard

490
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: for the last six minutes. I don't think Joe Biden

491
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: can stand in front of the media, have everybody yelling

492
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 1: at him, pick one person, not know what they're gonna

493
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: be asking, and respond directly to the question at hand.

494
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: He can't physically and mentally do that right now, Buck,

495
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 1: And it's it shouldn't be that. That shouldn't be something

496
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: that you're impressed by. Right every president of the United

497
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 1: States should be able to do what Trump is doing

498
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: right now. Maybe for the first time in any of

499
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: our lives we have a president who can't do that.

500
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 5: Basically, I just I don't know if anybody who is

501
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 5: a persuadable is going to change their mind. Based I

502
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 5: think we've known that Biden is declining for a long time,

503
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 5: and they're going to hide him and they're going to

504
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 5: have to cover up from Trump just walked away, by

505
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 5: the way, So the press conference is over, or you know,

506
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 5: impromptu press conference if you will, like Q and A. H.

507
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 2: Clay.

508
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 5: But back to the Supreme Court arguments that happened here,

509
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 5: here's the thing. The the State of Colorado's argument is

510
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 5: is is pretty much preposterous. And I think that all

511
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 5: of the justices know that at some level, you know,

512
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,360
Speaker 5: and there there was some skepticism even by the most

513
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 5: left wing justices on the Court of the argument.

514
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 6: Here's the issue.

515
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 5: If they give a nine to oh, a nine oh

516
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 5: decision on this in the in advance of the Trump

517
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 5: immunity case, in advance of all of the four criminal

518
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 5: prosecutions even being able to go to the court, right

519
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 5: whether they happen or not, none of them will have

520
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 5: gone to court. The Supreme Court is effectively handing Trump

521
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 5: a look at this, they're using law fair against me

522
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 5: Exhibit A. I mean, it couldn't be any more clear.

523
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 5: So I think if it's not a nine to zero

524
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 5: decision on this Colorado issue, it's really just a function

525
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 5: of a handful of members of the Court just refuse

526
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 5: to give Trump that legal victory because it's really a

527
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 5: political victory as well.

528
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's well said.

529
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: Also, it feels a little bit like the Mueller Report

530
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: to me in the context of leftists just keep getting

531
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: fired up.

532
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 2: They are Charlie Brown running.

533
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: Up to just nail the football every time they think

534
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: they have got Trump, and they make all these arguments,

535
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: and the New York Times editorial pages fired up, and

536
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: they get all their legal scholars lined up behind it.

537
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: If they get a nine to oh, here it is

538
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: Lucy pulling the football. It's worse than the mullerport. Remember

539
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: the all the T shirts they were selling, like Robert

540
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 1: Muller is gonna finally put Trump in the in where

541
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: he belongs. Yes, in Muller we trust. And now the

542
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: Supreme Court. It's to your point, if it's nine oh,

543
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: and it should be nine oh, I think we need

544
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: to talk.

545
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 2: About how just messy.

546
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,959
Speaker 1: All of this is I think that Democrats have gotten

547
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: so gleeful in their pursuit of Trump that they've got

548
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 1: so many different legal proceedings under waybuck that I think

549
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: if you're an average guy or gal out there and

550
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: you are going about your day and you're raising your

551
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: kids or you're taking your grandkids around, you can't even

552
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: keep up. There's like nine different legal proceedings going on

553
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: right now. If they had one case that everybody was

554
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: focused on, yes there's higher stakes because you have to

555
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: win on that one.

556
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 2: But by throwing all of.

557
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: This scattered shot style at the wall, it feels like

558
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: to me they diluted all of the individual attacks on Trump.

559
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 2: Well, because it's just a big mess.

560
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 5: How many legal challenges against Trump can the anti Trump

561
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 5: resistance lose before swing state voters, independence, reasonable people of

562
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 5: decent emotional stability just say this is a scam, right, irrespective,

563
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 5: you know, you can't bring nine phony cases against me

564
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 5: and tell me, oh, but the tenth one is the

565
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 5: one that's really about justice, right, And that's where we are.

566
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 5: And I think that's that's really the achilles heel of

567
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 5: this entire situation for the Democrats. But we'll see, We'll

568
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 5: continue to follow closely. We'll take some of your calls

569
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 5: on it. We got Julie Kelly on this busy day here.

570
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 6: On Clay and Buck.

571
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 5: Let's talk about the tunnel, the Towers Foundation for a moment, though,

572
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573
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574
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575
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Speaker 5: there and includes a gold Star family and the families

576
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Speaker 5: of two severely injured veterans who live in new smart homes.

577
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Speaker 5: The let Us Do Good Village is a special place

578
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579
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Speaker 5: of our nation's fallen or severely injured heroes can grow

580
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581
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Speaker 5: an extraordinary donation of many acres of land and your

582
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583
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584
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585
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586
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Speaker 5: never forget nine to eleven or the sacrifices our heroes

587
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Speaker 5: have made for our country and our communities. Join us

588
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Speaker 5: in donating eleven dollars a month to tunnel the towers

589
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590
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Speaker 5: two t dot org.

591
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: Subscribe to CNB twenty four to seven and that never

592
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: miss a minute of Clay and Bud while getting behind

593
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: the scene access to special content for members on land.

594
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 5: All right, welcome back to Clay and the big breaking

595
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 5: news from this morning. Arguments heard at the Supreme Court

596
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 5: over Colorado's attempt to ban Trump from the ballot because

597
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 5: of insurrection.

598
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 6: That's what they say.

599
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 5: He violated the Constitutional amendment about insurrection and running for office.

600
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 5: It was a tough argument, I think for the Colorado

601
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 5: Solicitor General make because it's a crap argument. So that's

602
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 5: not surprising. Justice gorsicch Oh, he had some thoughts on

603
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 5: a listen to this.

604
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 8: I think Justice leaders asking a very different question and

605
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 8: more pointed one and more difficult one for you, I understand,

606
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 8: but I think it deserves an answer. On your theory,

607
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 8: would anything compel a lower official to obey an order

608
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 8: from in your view, the former president.

609
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 9: I'm imagining a situation where, for example, a former president

610
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 9: was you know a president was elected and they were

611
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 9: twenty five and they were ineligible. Tothles All, we're talking

612
00:31:58,360 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 9: about sections three.

613
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 8: Please don't change's the hypothetical. Okay, I'm please don't change

614
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 8: the hypothetical. I know I like doing it too, but

615
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 8: please don't do it.

616
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 9: Well, the point I'm trying to make is he's disqualified.

617
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 8: From the moment he committed an insurrection. Whoever it is,

618
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 8: whichever party that happens, boom it happened, what would compel

619
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 8: And I'm not going to say it again, So just

620
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 8: try and answer the question. If you don't have to

621
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 8: answered fair enough, we'll move on what would compel a

622
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 8: lower official to obey an order from that individual?

623
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 9: Because ultimately we have we have statutes and rules.

624
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 6: Of course, it does not sound like he's buying it.

625
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: Clay, You know this is it takes me back a

626
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: little bit to law school because most law schools, I think,

627
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: still do this. You get taught based on the Socratic method,

628
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: which means you sit into clowns and boy, if you're

629
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: not prepared for the line of.

630
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 2: Questioning, you can just get full aid.

631
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: I mean, you talk to anybody who went to law school,

632
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: they probably still can think it might have been them

633
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: or they can remember, and especially in first year of

634
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: law class just taken absolute hammers from just getting absolutely

635
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: wrecked by a law professor.

636
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 2: And that's what that sounded like.

637
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: By the way, I think we've got another cutbuck of

638
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: Katanji Brown Jackson, which is starting to go a little

639
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: bit viral, and would suggest again that this could possibly

640
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: be a nine to zero decision.

641
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 2: Listen to this line of questioning.

642
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 3: The thing that really is troubling to me is I

643
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 3: totally understand your argument, but they were listing people that

644
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 3: were barred and president is not there, and so I

645
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 3: guess that just makes me worry that maybe they weren't

646
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 3: focusing on the president. And for example, the fact that

647
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:50,239
Speaker 3: electors of vice president and president are there suggests that

648
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 3: really what they thought was, if we're worried about the

649
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 3: charismatic person, we're going to bar insurrectionist electors, and therefore

650
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 3: that person is never going to ris.

651
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 9: This came up in the debates in Congress over section three,

652
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 9: where Reverdy Johnson said, why haven't you included president and

653
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 9: vice president in the language? And Senator Moral responds, we

654
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 9: have look at the language any office under the United States.

655
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 3: Yes, but doesn't that at least suggest ambiguity and this

656
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 3: sort of ties into Justice Kavanaughs point. In other words,

657
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 3: we had a person right there at the time saying

658
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 3: what I'm saying. The language here doesn't seem to include president.

659
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 2: Why is that?

660
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 3: And so if there's an ambiguity, why would we construe

661
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 3: it to as Justice Kavanaugh pointed out against democracy.

662
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: That's well said, Buck, and that would suggest to me

663
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: that Katanji Brown Jackson is looking for a way to

664
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: read this textually and specifically reference the fact that the

665
00:34:55,239 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: president is not enumerated there as other offices are as

666
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: a way to avoid having to say that he's not

667
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:05,959
Speaker 1: going to be on the ballot. And Buck, I also

668
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 1: think we were talking about fair about this. I think

669
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: we also have to contemplate. Remember, no Supreme Court decision

670
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 1: stands alone, and we talked about the precedent and how

671
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: that impacts things. But in particular, if you are going

672
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: to rule potentially against Trump somewhere down the line on

673
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: his presidential powers, or on whether or not you believe

674
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: the clause that jack Smith is prosecuting under is valid

675
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:40,919
Speaker 1: or not, you can somewhat look fairer to Trump by saying, look,

676
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to throw the book at Trump all

677
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: the time. We said that he's eligible, but we're not

678
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: going to give him full scope of presidential powers. In

679
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: other words, that conversation of multiple cases involved. There could

680
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: be a political element to that as well. Does that

681
00:35:55,480 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 1: makes sense.

682
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 5: More fundamentally, Clay, If they can just determine that he

683
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 5: did something without any process and it's a crime that

684
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 5: they're accusing him of, we don't have due process anymore,

685
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 5: you know what I'm saying, Like this is at a

686
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 5: very obvious level. Trump has never been adjudicated to have

687
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 5: committed any crime, never mind insurrection. So how can you

688
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 5: take action against somebody for something that is not proven

689
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 5: in a court