1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: My Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, welcome to 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: and I'm Joe McCormick. In today, we're gonna be talking 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: about a piece of legendary architecture. This will be sort 6 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: of in the tradition of our episodes on we did 7 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: one on the Great Buddha in Chuan, right, yeah, yeah, 8 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: And and like that episode, you know, we're gonna we're 9 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: gonna be focusing in on this particular um work of architecture. 10 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: This this this particular thing that people have made out 11 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,599 Speaker 1: of the earth. But in doing so, we're gonna get 12 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: a chance to discuss a little history, a little theology, 13 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: and perhaps, you know, overall introduce many of our listeners 14 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 1: to uh, maybe a part of the world you haven't 15 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: heard about, or a part of of our shared history 16 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: that you may not be that familiar with. Because when 17 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: you think of great constructions, you know what what comes 18 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: to mind? You think of the Great Pyramids, the Great 19 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: Wall of China. Perhaps, you think of Stone Hinge, or 20 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: the Zigarats of Mesopotamia, the meso American pyramids perhaps, and 21 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 1: these are all fabulous. And these are just a few 22 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: examples that we can turn to for amazing marvels of stonework, architecture, 23 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: and construction throughout humanity's history. And with all of them 24 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: we we revel in the study of their construction. Right, 25 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: How did in many cases ancient people refine the raw 26 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: earth itself into the necessary building blocks? How did they 27 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: transport all this stuff then to the building sites? And 28 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: then how did they assemble these structures that end up 29 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: standing you know, the test of millennia while the empires 30 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 1: around them rise and fall, and yet these structures remain. 31 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: You know, something we've discussed a number of times is 32 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: the way these ancient structures, Uh, they demonstrate mysteries about 33 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: about past engineering techniques that very often tend to cause 34 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: people to want to go to to outlandish alternate hypotheses. 35 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: You know, all the ideas about how the pyramids were built. 36 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: You always get the aliens hypothesis, and like, you know, 37 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: why is it that people want to go there with 38 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: that kind of thing rather than just thinking, wow, ancient 39 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: people must have been so clever to come up with 40 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: with ways of making such amazing structures with the limited 41 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: tools they had, Right, Yes, like the The idea that 42 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: ancient Egyptian humans built the pyramids is to my mind, 43 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: the plenty amazing. You don't have to go to the 44 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: even more amazing and outlandish idea that aliens came from 45 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: another world and showed them how to do it. I 46 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: mean really that it's far more interesting to to examine 47 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: the truth and see seek the truth of the situation, 48 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,679 Speaker 1: like how did actual humans carry this out? How did they, 49 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: even with their you know, their limited technologies, figure out 50 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: how to achieve these marvels. But it's not just the Pyramids. 51 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's fascinating that sooner or later 52 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: an aliens hypothesis shows up for all of these, you know, 53 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,679 Speaker 1: for Stonehinge, for the to American Pyramids, for basically anything 54 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 1: built in a pre modern period that still looks amazing today, right, 55 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: And I mean really, if you if you wonder about 56 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: anything that you maybe don't have a full grasp on 57 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: how the pieces came together, Like say bread, it's easy 58 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: to think, oh, Brad, just does not seem to make sense. 59 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: It must have been the gift of an alien culture. 60 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: But we we talked about this before. We did a 61 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: whole pair of episodes on ancient alien hypothesis and and 62 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,239 Speaker 1: what Karl Sagan had to say about it and other 63 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: critics have had to say about it. Uh. But indeed, 64 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: all of these, uh, these locations that I've mentioned already, 65 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: you can find certainly find some ancient aliens folks out 66 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: there that are chiming in on it. And I also 67 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: ran across some related to today's episode because but but 68 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: we're not going to really get into that, because the 69 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: real story is the amazing part. We're going to be 70 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: discussing a particular example of construction that is really just 71 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: as amazing as you know, making all these giant blocks, 72 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: bringing them together and building the pyram. But this particular 73 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: example is also going to buck the traditional steps that 74 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: we've discussed here, and we're gonna be looking at the 75 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: centuries old Christian temples in Ethiopia that were not built 76 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: from blocks of stone that were you know, chorried over 77 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: here and then brought together and then assembled into a building. Now, 78 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 1: these are free standing monolithic churches that are each hewn 79 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: from the solid red volcanic scoria underlaid by dark gray basalt, 80 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: standing tall in the quarries from which they were sculpted. 81 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 1: So Basically these were hewn out of solid stone. The 82 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: quarry becomes the courtyard. Yeah, it's a building that is 83 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: not built but released from the earth. Subtractive manufacturing of marvels. 84 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 1: It is. It is amazing. I was not familiar with 85 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 1: these until just last week when I was looking around 86 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: for an episode for us to do, and I was 87 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: an really thought, oh, why don't we do Petra the 88 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: the ruins in in Jordan's you know, with the where 89 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: the architecture is built into the side of this um uh, 90 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: this kind of like ravine situation. Right. If you think 91 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: you've never seen these, uh, these rock hewn buildings, you 92 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: probably have. They're featured, for example, in Indiana Jones in 93 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 1: The Last Crusade. They show up in several movies pet 94 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: Petro specifically in this case. Right. So, so I was thinking, 95 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: O Petro would be a good episode, and I started 96 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: looking around about Indeed, Petra is fascinating. Perhaps will come 97 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 1: back to it. But then I was just looking around 98 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: at other examples of of, you know, buildings that have 99 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: been hewn from stone, and then these just really stood 100 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: out as just the prime example, like the most extreme 101 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: example of what you could do with subtractive manufacturing of 102 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: an entire building to build, To construct a building by 103 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 1: not even constructing it, by just carving away at solid 104 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: stone until it is there with no need for bricks 105 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: or mortar or wood or nails or any of this 106 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: architecture as sculpture. Yeah, so where will you find these? 107 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: Will you will find them in Lalibela, Ethiopia. Ethiopia is 108 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: of course the nation in Eastern Africa, and they stood 109 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: there at least since the late twelfth century CE, though 110 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: you know, we'll probably get into some of the dating 111 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: in greater detail later, but first, just a few notes 112 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: about Ethiopia in general. Modern Ethiopia is the most populous 113 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: landlocked country in the world and the second most populous 114 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: African nation after Nigeria. Ethiopia is also considered one of 115 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: only two African nations never to be subjected to long 116 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 1: term European colonization, the other being Liberia, and to be 117 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: more specific, it was it was never. It was never 118 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: colonized during that nineteenth century period where so much of 119 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: Africa m wash, though it was occupied by Italy during 120 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: the Second World War, but not and not long enough 121 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: for there to be like true lasting cultural change. Because 122 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: of it. Still, throughout its history, it certainly came into 123 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: contact with foreign ideas and influences, and we'll be discussing 124 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: a major one here today. Because one of the other 125 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: things you'll notice about Ethiopia is that its majority religion 126 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: is the Ethiopian Orthodox Teawahito Church, what's known as an 127 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: Oriental Orthodox Christian Church, and it dates back many centuries. 128 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: There's also a sizeable Islamic population in Ethiopia, followed in 129 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: popularity by Protestants, traditional faiths Catholicism and Judaism. Now, of course, 130 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: there are other fascinating things about Ethiopia as well. For instance, 131 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: Ethiopian cuisine has certainly traveled well around the world. I 132 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: think it's widely believed to be the origin place of coffee, 133 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: this coffee and Uh and Okra as well. I was. 134 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: I chatted with Annie of our fellow podcast here in 135 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: the Atlanta office Is a Saver, and I said, hey, 136 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: have you guys done anything on Ethiopian cuisine because we 137 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: can mention on the podcast, And they said that they 138 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: had not yet, though they both love Ethiopian food. But 139 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: they have done an episode in Okra and they've done 140 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: an episode on coffee that'd get into those origins. I'd 141 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: say those are two of my favorite plant based foods. 142 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: Are you an ocra fan? Are you you one of 143 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: those people who thinks it's slimy? Oh? I love okra, 144 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: and I love it because it is slimy, especially in gumbo, 145 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: because it who acts as a thickening agent. So I 146 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: I want there to be okra present in many a 147 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,239 Speaker 1: dish bus is great, it's great fried, it's great. Uh, 148 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: it's great pickled. H. Yeah, I'm an ocra fan for sure. Okay, 149 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,199 Speaker 1: we're on the same page. I like it all those 150 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: ways too. I also really like okra in Indian food. 151 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, it goes really good with Indian spices. 152 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: I feel like I've had it in Indian food before, 153 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: but maybe not recently enough for it to really strike 154 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: a cord. I'll have to seek it out. There was 155 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: a restaurant here in town that made a really amazing 156 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 1: curried okra and then and then they went out of business. 157 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's talk in greater detail about Ethiopian 158 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: Christianity then, because since we're focusing in on old Christian 159 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 1: temples that were carved out of the ground in Ethiopia, 160 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 1: we should describe how Christianity came to East Africa. Sure, so, 161 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 1: I was looking at a scientific paper that will make 162 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: a brief reference to later in the episode. Uh and 163 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: the authors of this paper Ethiopian scientists Aspho Wilson, us 164 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: Rot and yod aylu Uh. They point out in the 165 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: background section of their paper that the broader tradition of 166 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: rock Huan churches in Ethiopia is historically associated with the 167 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: coming of a group of figures known as the Nine Saints, 168 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: who were alleged to have journeyed from Egypt and Syria 169 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: during the late fifth and early sixth centuries to preach 170 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: the Gospel of Christianity in Ethiopia and more specifically, to 171 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: spread and promote the monastic lifestyle. So I was digging 172 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: into this claim. I wanted to learn more about the 173 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: Nine Saints, and this eventually led me down a path 174 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: where I found a really awesome entry about Ethiopian Christianity 175 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: and the Ethiopian monastic trade in a book called the 176 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: Encyclopedia of Monasticism edited by the historian will Johnston. With 177 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: this specific entry on Ethiopian monastic Christianity written by the 178 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: Ethiopian American philologist get A. Chow Highly. I was treating 179 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: this as well, and it is is quite quite a 180 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: fascinating entry. I just had no idea just how imported 181 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: the monastic tradition was for just Ethiopian culture in general. 182 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so. Highly writes that due to the proximity 183 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: of Ethiopia to the Middle East, some Christianity probably began 184 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: to spread their organically as soon as the religion was founded. 185 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: But Highly also claims that Ethiopian Christianity is a form 186 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: of the religion that's kind of uniquely shaped by monks 187 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: and monastic influences. So what exactly would that mean. Well, 188 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: monasticism is the tradition we associate with monks and nuns. 189 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: It's the strain of a faith that calls for a 190 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: radical lifestyle of religious devotion, often including thing is like 191 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: vows of poverty or vows of chastity, or vows of 192 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: silence or fasting, general seclusion from secular life. So you know, 193 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: the priest or preacher within a religion might usually live 194 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: among the society preaching the faith. Meanwhile, the monk undertakes 195 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: in some way to live outside the society, rejecting many 196 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: of the comforts and pleasures of normal life, making their 197 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: day to day habits and living conditions themselves kind of 198 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: a radical demonstration of faith. An interesting fact that the 199 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: author points out is that it's currently really unknown how 200 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: many monasteries are in Ethiopia because the government keeps track 201 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: of churches, but not every monastery has a church, and 202 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: not every mountain or wilderness center that is uh that it, 203 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 1: you know, is historically a monastery is going to be 204 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: active today. But he lists quite a number of them, 205 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: and he also mentions Ethiopian monasteries outside of the country, 206 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: such as in Egypt where they that it looks like 207 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: they now live along side Coptic Christian monks there, but 208 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,719 Speaker 1: then also in Jerusalem as well. Yeah, and we can 209 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: come back to later on how these monasteries appear to 210 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: play a very important role in Ethiopian religious life. Uh So, 211 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: there's a legend about the founding of the Ethiopian Christian 212 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: Church recorded by the fourth century Christian historian and scholar 213 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: tyranny Us Rufinus, who lived in what is now northern Italy. 214 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: And the tale told by Rufinus goes something like this, 215 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: So in the city of Tier which is in modern 216 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 1: day Lebanon. You know, it's like tier in Sidon. Uh. 217 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: There was once this philosopher named Meropius, and Meropius had 218 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 1: two young students named Frumentius and Adasus. Now, one day 219 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: Europius decides he's going to set out on a sea 220 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: voyage and travel to India, and he's going to bring 221 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 1: his two students with him. But then tragedy strikes and 222 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: their ship sinks outside of a port that Rufinus writes 223 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: is in India, but it's apparently widely interpreted to be 224 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: a confused attempt to reference Ethiopia, so this is believed 225 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: often to be Ethiopia that he's talking about. And the 226 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: two boys are rescued and taken to the royal court 227 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 1: of the capital city of Axom. This would have been 228 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: the capital of what's known as the Axom Dynasty or 229 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: the or the Kingdom of Axum, where they were given 230 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: employment by the king and Frementius became the king's secretary, 231 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 1: while Adasius became the king's butler, and through his position 232 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: as secretary and his subsequent role instructing the young princes 233 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: at the palace, Frementius was allegedly able to eventually convert 234 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: the entire royal court to Christianity. And from here it's 235 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: written that Frementius encouraged the scattered Christians among the people 236 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: of Axom to organize into a church and to a 237 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: school for the Christian upbringing of children. And then when 238 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: Frementius and Adasius were released from their positions in the 239 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 1: court at Axom, Frementius allegedly went to Alexandria to convince 240 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: the current archbishop there, Athanasius, to recognize the church in 241 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: Ethiopia and look after its well being. And in turn, 242 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: Athanasius said, well, you'd be a good leader of that church, 243 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: and so Athanasius and the other bishops decided to name 244 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: Frementius Bishop of Acxim. So tradition says that in this way, 245 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: Fromentius became the first bishop and the first apostle of Ethiopia, 246 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: and he went throughout the kingdom preaching the peace of Christ, 247 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: which is how he became known in the Ethiopian Christian 248 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: tradition as Abba Salama, which means Father Peace. Now Highly, however, 249 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: casts doubt on the historical validity of this this foundational narrative, 250 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: noting that local sources don't really mention anything significant about 251 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: Frementius in this period, and that the historical evidence indicates 252 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: the story was probably later introduced to Ethiopia after first 253 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: being written by other authors in Greek. Highly writes, quote, 254 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: undoubtedly Frementius was a bishop consecrate did for Ethiopia by St. Athanaceous, 255 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: but the local tradition has no memory of him and 256 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: his efforts to Christianize Ethiopia. Doesn't history often work that way. 257 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: You've got a good founding story, but then like the 258 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: locals didn't record anything about it, so it seems like 259 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: it probably didn't quite happen that way. Yeah, or yeah, 260 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: just in general, this um, this sort of push and 261 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: pull between reality and myth and that area in between 262 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: where you're not sure where the history ends in the 263 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: myth begins. Yeah, it's always the way anyway. However, Highly 264 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: writes that much of the Christianizing influence on Ethiopia and 265 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: the following centuries did come from missionaries, primarily monks from 266 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: the Byzantine Christian world. And of course, you know, the 267 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: Byzantine Empire at the time would have spanned much of 268 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: the Mediterranean, so would have people of Byzantine influences could 269 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: be coming from like Egypt or wherever right. And by 270 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: the way, if you want a deeper dive into Byzantine 271 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: culture and Byzantine history, we did an episode on Greek 272 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: fire year back that we recommend. Yes. Uh So, these 273 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: these monks of the Byzantine Christian influence would be arriving 274 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: individually and in groups roughly between the fifth and the 275 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: seventh centuries. And the most famous of these Byzantine missionary 276 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: monks are known locally in Ethiopian tradition as the Nine Saints. 277 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: Now there's an interesting historical re contextualization that highly gives here. 278 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: He says that church historians generally believed that this group 279 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: of missionaries was actually on a kind of factional theological mission. 280 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: They were trying to get Ethiopia to take sides in 281 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: a theological dispute that was going on in the church, 282 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: or to stay on their side. Uh So, at the time, 283 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: one of the major theological disputes rocking the Christian Church 284 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: was about the essential nature of Christ. And the question 285 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: is this, did Jesus Christ have just one nature where 286 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: he was entirely divine or entirely human, or did Christ 287 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: have two separate natures, one of them earthly and one 288 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: of them divine. Now, I know, with that kind of argument, 289 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: I'm sure some people are kind of rolling your eyes, 290 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: like that doesn't sound like a super meaningful distinction. But 291 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 1: disputes like this were rampant in the early Church, and 292 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: they lead to bitter, agonizing power struggles and sometimes excommunication, 293 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 1: accusations of heresy and all the concominant punishments and you know, etcetera. 294 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: So these fights about the nature of Christ are known 295 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: as christological disputes, and they these disputes are the origin 296 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: of a lot of the dogmas that would later become 297 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 1: you know, widespread in in the Catholic Church. Yeah. I 298 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: mean because when you start asking the question, you know, 299 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: is was Christ human or divine? If you didn't say, oh, 300 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 1: well there was, he was human or he had a 301 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: human element, then you might say, well, how human was 302 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: the human? Like it's like you are the rich clergy 303 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: or is he human? Like like we are the peasants. Uh. 304 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,239 Speaker 1: That's a really great point, especially because while some of 305 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: these things, these distinctions might not sound super meaningful to us, 306 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: they had implications, often like material political implications that aren't 307 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: obvious if you just read about the pure theological dispute, 308 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: that's one thing I love about the the Umberto Echo 309 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: novel and the name of the Rose, which we've talked 310 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: about on the show before, is it. It deals with 311 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: a lot of these angels dancing on the head of 312 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: a pin kind of theological disputes, but also gives some 313 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: shading about what their real world political and economic implications 314 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: were right and how it ends up breaking down to 315 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: the suffering of at least the common man anyway. So anyway, 316 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: the view that Christ had two separate natures, both divine 317 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: and human, came to be known as Chalcedonianism after the 318 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: Council of Chalcedon in four fifty one, which ended with 319 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: the with a sort of uneasy consensus upon the two 320 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: nature thing. And the view that Christ had only one 321 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: nature came to be known as monophysicism. And this view, 322 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: the one nature view of monophysicism, was probably, at least 323 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: according to this church historian interpretation, was probably represented by 324 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: these figures known as the Nine Saints that you know, 325 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: if this view is correct, They came to Ethiopia to 326 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: make sure that the Ethiopian Church continued to preach one 327 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 1: nature in Christ and resist the two nature view. And 328 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: you can also see how they would be sort of 329 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: be seeking to to to get ahead to this far 330 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: flung of the region of Christians and just ensure that 331 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 1: they had the right version of the of the story. Right. Yes, yes, 332 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: though Highly says wild this is the thing that's generally 333 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 1: suspected by church historians. Nothing is certain. We don't know 334 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: for sure about all the motivations of these nine Saints. Locally, 335 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,199 Speaker 1: in Ethiopia, the Nine Saints are are not remembered for 336 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: arguing any particular side of a Christological SmackDown. They're They're 337 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: mainly remembered for strengthening the faith of the Ethiopian Church 338 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: and for again emphasizing monasticism the monk lifestyle. Uh So, 339 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: these nine Saints are said to have brought with them 340 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: a number of important books, and these are widely believed 341 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 1: to have included the books of the New Testament, but 342 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: also books of Christian doctrine and education. So, in evidence 343 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 1: of the strong influence of monasticism and Ethiopia, Highly mentioned 344 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: that one of the first books translated into the Ethiopian 345 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: language at the time, known as Ghez, was a work 346 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: known as the Monastic Rule of pac Homius, who was 347 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: the founder of the Synobitic monasticism tradition. Now, this is 348 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 1: a type of monasticism that encouraged monks to live together 349 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: in communities with other monks like the abbeys we would 350 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: traditionally think of, rather than simply living individually as isolated hermits, 351 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: which I think is the older view of the monk lifestyle. 352 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 1: And of course you still saw examples of that in 353 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 1: Ethiopia as well. Right, yeah, yeah, you see both. Uh 354 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: So maybe we should take a break and then when 355 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 1: we come back we can talk about the Nine Saints. 356 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: Than all right, we're back, so let's let's get to 357 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: get to these nine saints. Who who were they? And 358 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: what were they? What? What did they allegedly bring to Ethiopia? Okay, 359 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: well highly mentions. Actually ten well remembered Byzantine monks, who 360 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: each founded a monastery in Ethiopia. The first one is 361 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: not traditionally thought of as one of the nine saints, 362 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 1: but he's historically very important and so he bears mentioning. 363 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: This is Libanos or Mata, and legend has it that 364 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 1: he heard the call to a monastic life on his 365 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: wedding night. That is that is bad timing, dude, or 366 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: perfect timing. I guess you know, I guess so. Uh. 367 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 1: So on his wedding night, he's like, oh, oh no, wait, 368 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: I've got to take a vow of celibacy. I gotta 369 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 1: go be a monk. So he runs off to do that. Uh. 370 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: And he apparently went to Ethiopia, where he founded a 371 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: monastery and helped an Ethiopian monk translate one of the 372 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: Gospels into gez Uh. And then the next are who 373 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: are traditionally thought of as the Nine Saints. I'm not 374 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: going to mention biographical details or legends about all of them, 375 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: just a couple of them. So the first one is 376 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,199 Speaker 1: named Aragawi or Zamikhaiel, and he is known as the 377 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: leader of the Nine Saints or the Elder. Zamikhaiel is 378 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: also an appellation that means like devoted to Michael uh 379 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: and on the so, the the Nine Saints supposedly traveled 380 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: from Egypt to Ethiopia with Zamikhael as their leader, and 381 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: legend says that quote the saint used a long serpent 382 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: as a rope to ascend the impregnable summit of Mount Damo, 383 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 1: where he built his monastery. All right, so they all 384 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 1: build a monastery. This guy uses a snake to climb 385 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: a mountain and builds a monastery on top of the mountain. Uh. 386 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 1: And this is a mountain top monastery that still exists today. 387 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: Obviously historians do not think he actually is a snake 388 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: to climb the mountain, but uh, there is really a 389 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: monastery there. It is attributed to him. It's in the 390 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: region of t Gray and it's famous for being only 391 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 1: accessible by a rope assisted ascent up a steep cliff side. 392 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: So you really do have to climb a rope up 393 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: a cliff to get to this monastery. That that sounds terrifying. 394 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: And and I also think that that might be the 395 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: point of it, because there was there was another cliff 396 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: side or a mountain top sanctuary that we that we 397 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: ran across. I was looking at a video from Great 398 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 1: Big Story about this, and I think there's also uh 399 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 1: that there's been a BBC videos about it as well. Uh, 400 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: this is this other one is known as Abuna Yamata 401 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: Go or the Church of St Abuna Yamata. Yeah, and 402 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: the video I watched showed how to to climb it. 403 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: First of all, you have to climb at barefoot um 404 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: and then the final stretch is like This is after 405 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: you've actually ascended to to height on level with this 406 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: small little monastery that's built into the cliff. You have 407 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: to walk along this cliff side trail to the entrance 408 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 1: and it's just a sheer drop to your left. Uh. 409 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 1: And the the narrator was talking about just how it's 410 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,199 Speaker 1: it's terrifying, and then you're inside the sanctuary and I 411 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: can't help I mean, part of that, of course, it's 412 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,159 Speaker 1: just nature of the location. But the other part is 413 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: I can imagine that you're you're walking along this ledge 414 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: and it is this terrifying um ordeal. You know, you're 415 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: imagining yourself plummeting and falling and dying, and then you 416 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 1: emerge into this this decorated cavern with these images painted 417 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: on the walls, and you're in this Holy Shank sanctuary. Uh, 418 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: just you know, secluded from everything else. Yeah. I think 419 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: what you're emphasizing there is that the seclusion, the isolation, 420 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: the inaccessibility, and the danger are not bugs but features. 421 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: They're part of the religious experience generated in getting to 422 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 1: this this place belief to be holy. Right, So I 423 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: can see the same situation being in place if you're 424 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: having to climb this this rope to finally emerge into 425 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: a sanctuary. Yeah. An interesting note on the same subject, 426 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: but this is from a different part of Gatacio Highly's history. 427 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: Highly also writes that there are two words meaning monastery. Uh. 428 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,360 Speaker 1: He doesn't say the language specifically, but I'm pretty sure 429 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: he's talking about m hark the, the Ethiopian language of today. 430 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: But he says that these two words today meaning monastery. 431 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: The first word is dabber, which literally comes from the 432 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: word meaning mountain, as in Mount Sinai. And then the 433 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: other word is goddam, which means which comes from a 434 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: word meaning wilderness, as in John the Baptist referring to 435 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: himself as a voice crying out in the wilderness. Uh. 436 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: And I loved that. That's so interesting. So you've got 437 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 1: these two words both mean monastery, one means mountain, and 438 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 1: one means wilderness. Yeah, that's great. I mean that that 439 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: ties in nicely with topics we've discussed in the show before, 440 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: how high elevation can can impact the mind and then 441 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: also the recharging effects of being in a natural environment. Yeah. 442 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: And I think you read this part also where he 443 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: talks about that they do sometimes refer to different types 444 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: of monasteries like the Dauber Monastery would be a monastery 445 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: that is on top of a mountain, or is a 446 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: certain type of like major officially recognized monastery. Meanwhile, a 447 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: goddam monastery I think can be more like is uh, 448 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: can be more unofficially recognized, or can be anywhere, right, Yeah, 449 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 1: and so that thus it becomes very difficult to actually 450 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: have a good count on how many Ethiopian monasteries exist. 451 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: Yeah uh so so that was anyway the legacy of 452 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: the first of the nine saints. The second one is 453 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: known as Pentaluon or Pentaleon, called Pentaluon of the Cell 454 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 1: because he allegedly never once left his tiny cell after 455 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,919 Speaker 1: he entered it. So this guy, one of the vows 456 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: he takes is a vow to be sealed in this room. 457 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: He keeps his vow to remain inside for forty five 458 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: years until his death. The next one is Yesshak or 459 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: Isaac or Garima, so that many of them have multiple 460 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: names they're known by. This one is believed to have 461 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: been born a prince but then became a monk. Uh, 462 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 1: there's aftsy. His hagiographer writes that he never died, but 463 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: instead ascended directly into heaven like Elijah or like Jesus. Yeah, 464 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 1: so so far. Each of these are kind of hitting 465 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: on like sort of traditional tropes of the holy Man 466 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,479 Speaker 1: or the hernet or uh. Certainly the prince that becomes 467 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,239 Speaker 1: a holy man is very much in keeping with the Buddha. Yes, yes, uh, 468 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: And then you got the next five. No bio details 469 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: on these. Highly didn't have much about them except like 470 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: when their feast days are celebrated. But you've got Gubba, 471 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: a Left, Yamata, Lekanos, and Sema and Highly writes that 472 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: the monks you would meet in Ethiopia today often like 473 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: to trace their lineage to one of the Nine Saints, 474 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: so they can say, oh, I'm of the tradition of 475 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: Yamata or I'm of the tradition of Pantaluon. But anyway, 476 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 1: this period, the Nine Saints period, would be the fifth 477 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: to sixth century, and this appeared to be a boom 478 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,959 Speaker 1: time for Christianity and monks in Ethiopia. Highly mentions that 479 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 1: an Egyptian monk named Cosmos into Coopliasts wrote of visiting 480 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: the coastal regions of Ethiopia along the Red Sea in 481 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:25,479 Speaker 1: the year five five, and that Indocopliasts wrote at the 482 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: at the time that the churches and the monasteries in 483 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:33,679 Speaker 1: Ethiopia were thriving. However, sometime in the next few hundred years, 484 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: definitely by the tenth century, the political and religious power 485 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: center of the city of Axom and the and the 486 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: Axom Empire was reduced to ruins. And the cause of 487 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: this is not known for sure, though there are some 488 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: unsubstantiated legends about an uprising against the Church by non Christians, 489 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: but uh, we don't know exactly what happened there. But 490 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: eventually Highly writes that the power vacuum was filled by 491 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: a new rule dynasty, the Zagway, which lasted until around 492 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: twelve seventy. Yeah, I was, I was reading about this, 493 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: this uprising in the history of Ethiopia by sahed A 494 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: A Dajumbi. The and basically the chief antagonist that has 495 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: attributed to what is sometimes called the Ethiopian Dark Age 496 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: was the non Christian Queen good It. She up, according 497 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: to these these stories, usurped the throne by force and 498 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 1: reign for forty years, and then passed the crown onto 499 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: her descendants, who were then eventually overthrown by Mara Takla 500 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: Hemanat an Aga overlord and then Um. This overlord married 501 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: a female descendant of the Oxomite monarchs of old and 502 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: started the Zaga dynasty. Uh that you mentioned already. But 503 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: there are apparently a lot of inconsistencies about good It 504 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: about you know, who she was, where she came from, 505 00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: what exactly she did, aside from decimating Um the capital 506 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: and overturning the prior rule UM. So it seems rather 507 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: difficult to separate a history and the mythology. Uh. There's 508 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: often the details of one story conflict with those of another. 509 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: For instance, in one telling, at least she has described 510 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: as being of Jewish origin, thus good At Judith there 511 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: being potentially some connection there. Yeah, highly doesn't seem to 512 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: credit the story from what I can tell. He He 513 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: mentions that the names applied to this woman, for example, 514 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: like like good Itt or Isato if she existed, are 515 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: probably not even her real names, but their derogatory terms 516 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: applied to her by people who saw her as a villain, 517 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: if she was in fact a real figure. So this 518 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: period seems murky, right. But whatever led from the collapse 519 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: of the Axom kingdom to the foundation of the Zugway dynasty. 520 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: It's under the Zugwa kingdom that the rock hun churches 521 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: of Lali Bella are traditionally said to have been designed 522 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: and constructed. So let's turn to the king Lali Bella. Yes, 523 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: a lot Bella, the namesake of of of the city 524 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: of Lolli Bella, Emperor Gabre Mescal Lalli Bella, who lived 525 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: one through twelve twenty one, and who again was part 526 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: of the Zaguay dynasty. That dynasty lasted from the year 527 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: nine hundred to the year twelve seventy. I think that's 528 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: got to be a rough estimate on the beginning of it, right, yeah. Um, So, 529 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: I've seen it alleged in several sources that the name 530 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: of this king, that Lolli Bella, means something about bees, 531 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 1: like quote, his sovereignty is recognized by bees, or that 532 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: it just means surrounded by bees. I have not found 533 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: that claim source to its origin or explained anywhere that 534 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,959 Speaker 1: looked too solid to me, So a question mark on 535 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: that one. But I hope it's true because I like it. 536 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: It's a It's an absolutely wonderful, magical gimmick for a monarch. 537 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: They're surrounded by bees, and yeah, I did. Really, this 538 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: whole dynastic um struggle that we're describing here, I just 539 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 1: I mean, ethiop in history is amazing, and I'm glad 540 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: that I'm finally digging into it. So, so the Zaguay 541 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: dynasty had they had to make their capital in a 542 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: new location. The previous one had been decimated by the 543 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: prior rule. So they made their capital in Roa, which 544 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: later took the name of the monarch that we're talking about, 545 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: Lolli Bella. So Loli Bella is best remembered today for 546 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: those these monoliths that he builds or has built, or 547 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: completes the building building off. You mean the rock you 548 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: in churches, Yes, the rocky in churches. Yeah, either he 549 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: the tales you know differ, but either he commanded their 550 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: construction or he oversaw their completion. At any rate, his 551 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: name is kind of like stamped on them. Historically. I 552 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: think there's one other version in which his widow had 553 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: at least one of the churches built in her husband's memory. Okay, 554 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: now that's the traditional telling. I was reading a short 555 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: essay about the churches by a scholar of African arts 556 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: named Kristen Windmiller. Luna, and she points out that archaeologists 557 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: have not actually established precise dates for the construction of 558 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: the different parts of the Lolli Bella complex, but that 559 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: the most common view among scholars is that these churches 560 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: were probably actually constructed in stages over a longer period 561 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: of time, maybe in like four or five different phases 562 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: between the seventh and the thirteenth centuries. But again we 563 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: don't really know for sure. And in addition to the 564 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: traditional description to Lolli Bella, the king's reign would fall 565 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: right towards the end of this hypothetical multi phase construction period. Yeah, 566 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: so at any rate, his name is highly associated with them, 567 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: and of course the town bears his name. Um And 568 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: now there are some other stories you'll encounter out there 569 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: about that have alternate hypotheses for their creation. There was 570 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: one I saw mentioned in a BBC article even stating 571 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: that the knights templars may have created them. But I 572 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: don't think anybody really gives those stories a lot of uh, 573 00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: you know, they don't give them a lot of aten. 574 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 1: And I think this is the primary hypothesis that everyone 575 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: agrees with. Wait by history channel logic is or the 576 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: Knights templars. Also, is that the same as the aliens 577 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: hypothesis because the Knights templars were Aliens. Knights templar extremism 578 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: is like a gateway to ancient Aliens. You know, if 579 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: you if you just keep following and you keep just really, 580 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: if you really want everything to be the Knights templars, 581 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: at the end of it, you're just gonna wind up 582 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: an ancient Aliens territory. Yeah, that's my take on it. 583 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: Not that the templars are not in and of themselves fascinating. 584 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: Uh and I'd actually love to come back to them 585 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: on invention. I think they arguably factor into some uh 586 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: certainly some economic inventions of over time. Okay, but but anyway, 587 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,280 Speaker 1: that's for another that's for another day. But let's explore 588 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: that traditional story attributing the rock you in churches directly 589 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 1: to Lolli Bella. Now, of this, though, there are two 590 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: different versions, at least that I came across. One is 591 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: that Lolli Bella had himself visited Jerusalem sometime around say 592 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: even eight seven, just before the Crusader health city fell 593 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: back into the hands of Islamic forces. So, like many 594 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: Christians at the time, many Christians of means would have 595 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: wanted to make a pilgrimage to what they believe is 596 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: the birthplace of Christ for like religious devotion, and so 597 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: he would have made this pilgrimage potentially, yes. Now another 598 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: version is that he didn't actually travel there, but he 599 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 1: saw Jerusalem in a dream. Uh, and particularly probably in 600 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,839 Speaker 1: a dream after its fall back into Islamic hands. Wait 601 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: a minute, I just made a big mistake. I said 602 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,720 Speaker 1: birthplace of Christ. Jerusalem is not the birthplace of Christ, 603 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: but is it very important in Christian tradition. Sorry, yeah, 604 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: he came into Jerusalem on a donkey, but in none 605 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: of the gospels doesn't say he was born in Jerusalem. Sorry, 606 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,399 Speaker 1: I just had to clean that up. Oh yeah, no worries. Well, 607 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: in either case, either he visited Jerusalem and then it fell, 608 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: or Jerusalem fell and then he saw a vision of 609 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: it in his dreams. But then it becomes clear to 610 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 1: him I need to create a new Jerusalem right here 611 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 1: in Christian Ethiopia. And then uh, since no one can 612 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 1: travel to Jerusalem now among the Christians, Uh, then all 613 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: the Ethiopian Christians can simply travel here and and have 614 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: a religious experience here in this city. And so thus 615 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:22,880 Speaker 1: the creation of these eleven monolithic churches, each plunging up 616 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: to fifty meters in the earth are roughly one hundred 617 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: and sixty four feet And of course, the idea again 618 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: would be that since Christian pilgrims could no longer direct 619 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 1: to Jerusalem, this would serve as a new center of pilgrimage. 620 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 1: And indeed it does remain an important pilgrimage destination for 621 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: Ethiopian Christians. Christmas Eve, which is known as Genna in 622 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,760 Speaker 1: Um in Ethiopian traditions, is a favorite is a favorite 623 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 1: time to visit, with people walking hundreds of miles or 624 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:54,400 Speaker 1: more to visit the churches and engage in rights of fasting, prayer, 625 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: and celebration. Yeah, and that's one thing that makes these 626 00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: churches special. Today I was reading again in that piece 627 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,279 Speaker 1: by Kristen Windmiller Luna that some of the earliest of 628 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: these structures may have originally served civic functions like as 629 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: palaces or fortresses, but at some point they became these 630 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: churches as destinations for pilgrimage, and their location makes them 631 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,319 Speaker 1: different from some of the you know, you would think 632 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: of the big grand Catholic cathedrals that you might find 633 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 1: in the middle of a huge city. Today, these churches 634 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 1: are somewhat remote. They're not in the center of the 635 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,280 Speaker 1: Ethiopian capital Adisa Baba the and so it makes sense 636 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,359 Speaker 1: to think of them as a site of pilgrimage. They're 637 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,400 Speaker 1: a place you would have to go to in a 638 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 1: journey to show your devotion. Yeah. And and we're talking 639 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 1: about visiting these sites on mountaintops and how there's like 640 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: the physical ordeal of climbing up to reach them. And 641 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 1: with these temples that are essentially, you know, just dug 642 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: out of out of these quarries in the earth, you 643 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: have to climb down to visit them. Like they're accessible 644 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 1: via like steep winding stairs and tunnels and uh, you 645 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: know tunnel complexes. So you have you have a very 646 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,760 Speaker 1: similar situation, except instead of an ascent, it is a descent. 647 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,320 Speaker 1: So let's look at these eleven churches, all right. So, um, 648 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,799 Speaker 1: they're arranged into three groups and each one difference in 649 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: exact size, rock color, architectural style and um. According to UNESCO, 650 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:20,400 Speaker 1: because they are UNESCO World Heritage Sites, their translated names 651 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,799 Speaker 1: are as follows. There's the House of the Savior of 652 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 1: the World and this is thought to be the largest 653 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 1: of these monolithic churches. There's the House of Mary. There's 654 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: the House of the Cross. There's the House of Virgins. 655 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: There's the House of Golgotha Michael, which contains life size 656 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,879 Speaker 1: depictions of the twelve Apostles carved into the walls, and 657 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 1: apparently only four are visible to the public and the 658 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:49,840 Speaker 1: others are kept hidden behind like drapes and curtains. There's 659 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,320 Speaker 1: the House of Emmanuel. There's the House of Saint Merkrios 660 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,840 Speaker 1: and this was possibly a former residence. There's the House 661 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 1: of Abbott Libanos, the House of Gabriel Raphael. This was 662 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 1: also possibly a former residence. There's the House of Holy Bread, 663 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 1: and then finally there is the House of St. George. 664 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 1: This is the one if you if you see like 665 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: an Instagram post for this podcast episode, this is the 666 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: image you're seeing because it has this kind of cruciform 667 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: plan to it. Uh, shaped like a cross, specifically a 668 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 1: Greek cross, and if you view it from above, uh, 669 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 1: it's it's it's really. When I first saw an image 670 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: of it from above, I wasn't even sure I was 671 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: looking at Yeah, there's a quality too. I think you 672 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 1: were actually talking about this before we started recording. How 673 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: it's the kind of architectural marvel that is difficult to 674 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 1: appreciate from a single photograph because in only seeing it 675 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 1: from one perspective, you don't really understand what's so marvelous 676 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,800 Speaker 1: about it. You have to see, like, you have to 677 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 1: see it from multiple different photos from different angles to 678 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:57,360 Speaker 1: start to appreciate it. Yes, absolutely, because photographs taken from uh, 679 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 1: from down inside the the corey, the pit, where yard pit, 680 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 1: the four yard pit, whatever you want to call it, like, 681 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: those are impressive because you see this image of this 682 00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:11,239 Speaker 1: building here just rising up and and if you don't know, 683 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 1: you might just assume that it was built, that it 684 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 1: was constructed out of bricks, maybe surrounded by walls. Yeah, 685 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,359 Speaker 1: but then when you see it from above, it's like, 686 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 1: what is this strange cross surrounded by uh, you know, 687 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,000 Speaker 1: by you know, pit on all sides that's just sort 688 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,400 Speaker 1: of emerging from the wilderness landscape all around it. Yeah. 689 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: So again, this is the Church of St. George we're 690 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: talking about. I guess let's take a closer look at 691 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,279 Speaker 1: this one to see what's so architecturally special about it. 692 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 1: You you mentioned the idea of it plunging into the earth. 693 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:42,919 Speaker 1: I think that's the perfect way to describe the Church 694 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,360 Speaker 1: of St. George. It doesn't rise up from the earth 695 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: like a regular church or a regular building. It rises 696 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: from the bottom of a pit. And the pit is 697 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:58,320 Speaker 1: a pit carved into natural rock. So as you approach 698 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 1: the church, you're walking along a natural rock surface, not 699 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 1: a paved area, but just exposed rock from planet Earth. 700 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 1: And as you keep going, you realize you are approaching 701 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: a deep, rectangular hole in the ground with edges dropping 702 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: straight off and from the from the top, you know, 703 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 1: the lip of the pit down to the bottom. I 704 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 1: think it's roughly twelve meters or forty ft roughly, the 705 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 1: pit being maybe twenty five ms or about eighty feet 706 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 1: wide square. And then in the middle of this rectangular pit, 707 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: there's this huge building in the shape of a Greek cross, 708 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,560 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, which looks kind of like a plus sign, 709 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 1: approximately as tall as the ground you're standing on, though 710 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: the edges of the pit are not exactly all at 711 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,279 Speaker 1: the same height, so it depends on where you're standing. Uh, 712 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,239 Speaker 1: it might be taller than where you are, might be 713 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: a little below you. But this cross shaped building in 714 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 1: the center of the pit is the church, and as 715 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,480 Speaker 1: the name suggests, again, it's not built but carved directly 716 00:41:55,680 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 1: out of the existing basaltic rock. It is one broken 717 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 1: hunk of natural stone released from the earth by hammer 718 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,359 Speaker 1: and chisel. Yeah, it's just it's amazing to to even 719 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,600 Speaker 1: think about. And we've never been obviously, I look forward 720 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 1: to hearing from anyone out there who has visited this 721 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,360 Speaker 1: site and can describe, uh, you know, what it was 722 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 1: like to to see this in person. But it's just 723 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:24,280 Speaker 1: it's such a drastically different model of making a building 724 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 1: compared to everything else that has has been the norm. 725 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:29,800 Speaker 1: You know, it's not just the case for this church. 726 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,440 Speaker 1: I mean this is true of many types of sacred 727 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:36,800 Speaker 1: destinations and holy buildings, but it's weirdness makes it holy. 728 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: Like the weirdness of the architectural construction here contributes to 729 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,480 Speaker 1: the alienated, filth feeling. You get that that I think, 730 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,279 Speaker 1: you know, it's the same reason that you're far less 731 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 1: likely to have a religious experience in a in a 732 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 1: very normal building, in an office building full of cubicles 733 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 1: and hallways with you know, carpeted floors and stuff, when 734 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,759 Speaker 1: you go into a cathedral. This is not like the 735 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 1: other buildings you go into, it's very weird, and the 736 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,319 Speaker 1: weirdness itself puts you in an in a kind of 737 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:12,320 Speaker 1: like disoriented, alienated state of mind that makes you prone 738 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:16,440 Speaker 1: to having feelings of connection with higher beings and stuff 739 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,440 Speaker 1: like that. And I think the architectural weirdness here probably 740 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 1: does a similar thing. Yeah, I mean, and it's probably 741 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,759 Speaker 1: the reason why some of the tails say that O 742 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,520 Speaker 1: the angels helped them constructed, you know, yes, which again 743 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,520 Speaker 1: is not to inspire anybody to go nuts with ancient 744 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,839 Speaker 1: aliens stuff here, but just like the idea that this 745 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,479 Speaker 1: is such a drastically different building from anything we're used to, 746 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,320 Speaker 1: like the divine imprint is here. Yeah. Uh So. Another 747 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 1: thing that's really cool about it is I mentioned you 748 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:46,759 Speaker 1: can walk up to the edge of this pit as 749 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,120 Speaker 1: the building rising up from the bottom of the pit. 750 00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,839 Speaker 1: The edges of the pit are a straight drop off 751 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,879 Speaker 1: around all the sides. So how do you get into 752 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,120 Speaker 1: the church? Well, apparently the bottom of the pit is 753 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:02,919 Speaker 1: accessed via a narrow descending canyon and then which which 754 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,040 Speaker 1: turns into a tunnel that is carved into the rock 755 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,920 Speaker 1: formation nearby. So again this is something where somebody had 756 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:15,280 Speaker 1: to carve an access ramp down through the existing native 757 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 1: living rock there in this narrow tunnel, and then you 758 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,440 Speaker 1: come out in the courtyard below. Yeah, and I can 759 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,920 Speaker 1: only assume that you know this. This is again the 760 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 1: monastic tradition, the idea of the importance of pilgrimage coming 761 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 1: into play here, Like it is not a thing that 762 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,719 Speaker 1: should be easy to access. It is supposed to be 763 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,680 Speaker 1: um a journey to the bottom. Now, apparently there are 764 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,960 Speaker 1: other openings in the walls of the this courtyard pit 765 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 1: which gives access to chambers that can be used for 766 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:47,400 Speaker 1: different things like sometimes housing, I think, or storage or 767 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:51,719 Speaker 1: as crypts. Yeah. Unesco describes there being all these of 768 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,840 Speaker 1: these sites being connected via quote, drainage, ditches, trenches, and 769 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:59,960 Speaker 1: ceremonial passages, some of which opening to hermit caves and catacomb. 770 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,880 Speaker 1: Now I mentioned there was a there was a scientific 771 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:04,879 Speaker 1: paper we were going to reference. Maybe we should take 772 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,400 Speaker 1: a break and then come back to to look at 773 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:12,920 Speaker 1: that real quick. Thank thank alright, we're back all right. 774 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,960 Speaker 1: So earlier we mentioned a scientific paper that would be 775 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:21,040 Speaker 1: examining some of the geological properties of these rock hewn churches, 776 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,360 Speaker 1: and so this paper was published in the Journal of 777 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 1: African Earth Sciences called Geological and Geotechnical Properties of the 778 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:32,920 Speaker 1: Medieval rock hewn Churches of Lolli Bella, Northern Ethiopia by Aspa. Wilson, 779 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:37,359 Speaker 1: as Rot and udt Lu and The authors here use 780 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:41,560 Speaker 1: a metric called the rock mass rating to characterize the 781 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,839 Speaker 1: constituents and the condition of the rocks that make up 782 00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,719 Speaker 1: the churches of Lolli Bella, and they found that these 783 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:52,040 Speaker 1: churches are mostly carved from quote medium strength to strong 784 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 1: intact scoriaceous basalt rocks. You know, what does scoriaceous basalt 785 00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,600 Speaker 1: rocks mean. Uh, scoriaceous rocks. Basalt rocks would be dark 786 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:07,120 Speaker 1: colored volcanic rocks with a porous or a vesicular texture, 787 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,399 Speaker 1: so pores or vesicles. What does that mean in rock terms? Well, 788 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,919 Speaker 1: these are little holes, basically little bubbles that are created 789 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:21,040 Speaker 1: when magma with dissolved gas content erupts and then is 790 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,000 Speaker 1: exposed to the surface, and then some of that dissolved 791 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:28,720 Speaker 1: gas volatilizes and forms bubbles which can become hardened into 792 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,040 Speaker 1: the rock as the lava cools. Uh So, a very 793 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,360 Speaker 1: extreme form of this you might have encountered was probably 794 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,919 Speaker 1: something like pumice you know that has huge holes in it. Uh, 795 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,640 Speaker 1: This I think is not quite that porous, but still 796 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,400 Speaker 1: it's porous. It's got like holes and little tunnels and 797 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,560 Speaker 1: bubbles in it. It makes me think of cooking pancakes 798 00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,360 Speaker 1: this description, think a little bubbles on top. It's pretty 799 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:53,800 Speaker 1: much exactly like. Uh. So, the authors find several threats 800 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,799 Speaker 1: to the material integrity of the rock Huan churches. Uh 801 00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,200 Speaker 1: that you know, the churches are are somewhat vulnerable bole 802 00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,799 Speaker 1: to the elements. They write, quote, most of the rock 803 00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:07,760 Speaker 1: hewn churches are affected by precrving, cooling joints, and bedding 804 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:12,960 Speaker 1: plane discontinuities, and by mostly but not necessarily post carving 805 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:17,720 Speaker 1: tectonic and seismic induced cracks and fractures. So, for several 806 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 1: reasons having to do with the existing you know, massive 807 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:25,000 Speaker 1: rock there and with things brought on by the carving 808 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:29,200 Speaker 1: and excavation of these building faces, there are cracks and 809 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:33,600 Speaker 1: fractures and vulnerabilities in the buildings and their structure. But 810 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,600 Speaker 1: they also say, uh, though most of the churches are 811 00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:40,920 Speaker 1: hewn from medium to high strength rock, mass discontinuities make 812 00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:46,959 Speaker 1: them vulnerable to other deteriorating agents, mainly weathering and water infiltration. Again, 813 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,400 Speaker 1: it's not how hard to see how porous rocks are 814 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:54,640 Speaker 1: subject to water infiltration. Quote. The scoriaceous basalt, which is 815 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,560 Speaker 1: porous and permeable, allows easy passage of water, while the 816 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:03,520 Speaker 1: underlying basalt is impermeable, increasing the residents time of water 817 00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:07,920 Speaker 1: in the porous material, causing deep weathering and subsequent loss 818 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,640 Speaker 1: of material in some of the churches and adjoining courtyards. 819 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:15,160 Speaker 1: So while they're still beautiful to see today, these buildings 820 00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:19,560 Speaker 1: are under some material strain. Yeah. I was reading about 821 00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,680 Speaker 1: this um on UNESCO's website and they point Another thing 822 00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:25,720 Speaker 1: they point out is the drainage ditches. We mentioned already 823 00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,760 Speaker 1: that that's part of sort of the uh the system 824 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 1: of tunnels and um and and ditches around these structures. 825 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,160 Speaker 1: It's a rock pit, you need some way to drain it, right. 826 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,040 Speaker 1: But the thing is that those ditches were filled in 827 00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,120 Speaker 1: with filled in with dirts some time ago, and this 828 00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,640 Speaker 1: resulted in a lot of flooding and water damage over 829 00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:45,840 Speaker 1: the years before they were then cleared out again in 830 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,239 Speaker 1: the early twentieth century. I guess that that's one of 831 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,080 Speaker 1: the things to keep in mind about structures that have 832 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,080 Speaker 1: existed for as long as these is, there's plenty of 833 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:57,239 Speaker 1: time for the v periods of neglect, even if they 834 00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,960 Speaker 1: are not periods of of outright uh, you know, assault 835 00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:04,240 Speaker 1: on them. Um. So water damage occurred, then you already 836 00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,240 Speaker 1: mentioned the seismic activity that does seem to have damaged 837 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,360 Speaker 1: them as well. As such, they are all in fairly 838 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:14,719 Speaker 1: degraded shape at this point and require monitoring, despite the 839 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,120 Speaker 1: construction of shelters over several of them. In fact, the 840 00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,640 Speaker 1: House of Emmanuel, one of the eleven we've missed listed earlier, 841 00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:26,200 Speaker 1: is listed as being in danger of collapse. Um. And 842 00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:28,800 Speaker 1: those shelters too. And you'll see these shelters if you 843 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:32,279 Speaker 1: look up pictures of these today. Uh. They're quite controversial 844 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:36,960 Speaker 1: as well, apparently because they're they're certainly sheltering these structures 845 00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,319 Speaker 1: from the elements. Uh, but in some cases they might 846 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,960 Speaker 1: actually be damaging the very structures they're protecting. Uh. And 847 00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:47,680 Speaker 1: some of them are arguably also at risk to collapse 848 00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,680 Speaker 1: during storms. And at the very least they impact the 849 00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:56,600 Speaker 1: visual presentation and serve, according to the Associated Foreign Press 850 00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:00,279 Speaker 1: as quote a symbol of the neglect that Lei Bella 851 00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:05,160 Speaker 1: residents say they and the complex endure On top of this, 852 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:09,840 Speaker 1: there's the degradation to various painting, sculptures and bass reliefs 853 00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:14,680 Speaker 1: inside uh the temples. And UH. Even though the churches 854 00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,520 Speaker 1: are protected by both the church and the state in Ethiopia, 855 00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,040 Speaker 1: apparently this doesn't always translate into their being like a 856 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:27,840 Speaker 1: lot of support uh an effort given towards the needs, 857 00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,279 Speaker 1: because there's still, according to um UNESCO quote, a need 858 00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:35,320 Speaker 1: for stronger planning controls for the setting of the churches 859 00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:39,040 Speaker 1: that addresses housing, land use, tourism, and for a management 860 00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:42,200 Speaker 1: plan to be developed that integrates the conservation action plan 861 00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,520 Speaker 1: and addresses the overall sustainable development of the area with 862 00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:49,759 Speaker 1: the involvement of the local population. Now I was looking around, 863 00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,520 Speaker 1: it does seem like this remains uh, something is being 864 00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:56,239 Speaker 1: discussed and um uh you know, UNESCO is still still 865 00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:01,239 Speaker 1: discussing impossible plans to better protect these churches. And there 866 00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,799 Speaker 1: has been increased attention even in the past year, with 867 00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:08,680 Speaker 1: for instance, French President Emmanuel Macron visiting the site of 868 00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:12,040 Speaker 1: these churches in Ethiopia. Yeah, this race is something that 869 00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:14,359 Speaker 1: has come up with a number of the topics we've 870 00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:18,600 Speaker 1: done about you know, old wonderful pieces of architecture, which 871 00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:20,799 Speaker 1: is that obviously, you know, it makes sense to put 872 00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:25,480 Speaker 1: things in place to protect structures from being directly damaged 873 00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:29,000 Speaker 1: by human behavior. But when something is being sort of 874 00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:34,040 Speaker 1: like naturally weathered, uh and and uh suffering, you know, 875 00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:38,640 Speaker 1: just from the exposure to the natural forces that permeate 876 00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,440 Speaker 1: the environment, I think, then it becomes harder to know 877 00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:45,480 Speaker 1: exactly what to do. Like, so imagine you're just dealing 878 00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:47,799 Speaker 1: with the issue of would it be better to put 879 00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,040 Speaker 1: up a shelter over one of these churches to prevent 880 00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:55,360 Speaker 1: rain from falling on it or not? I mean, and 881 00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,080 Speaker 1: so maybe putting that up, you would say, could prevent 882 00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:01,640 Speaker 1: some water damage from accumulation over time, but also that 883 00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:05,160 Speaker 1: damage is relatively slow to happen. And in the meantime, 884 00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:08,560 Speaker 1: everybody who goes on pilgrimage to this church, now the 885 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:12,520 Speaker 1: pilgrimage is under this big artificial shelter, right, And then 886 00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,920 Speaker 1: I can only imagine that a site like this offers 887 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:21,080 Speaker 1: unique challenges as it is built, unlike buildings are typically constructed, 888 00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:23,400 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, they're there are a number of concerns 889 00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,360 Speaker 1: that come together here, and also coming back to just 890 00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:29,040 Speaker 1: the nature of of buildings, the nature of sculpture, the 891 00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,759 Speaker 1: nature of anything humans have made something like like like this. 892 00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,040 Speaker 1: Certainly from a human perspective, it is long lived, is 893 00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,279 Speaker 1: very durable, It may even seem to be eternal. But 894 00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:42,680 Speaker 1: from a geologic standpoint, it is quite frail. It is 895 00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:46,239 Speaker 1: frailer than the thing that came before it, and uh, 896 00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,880 Speaker 1: you know. Therefore, it's it's foolish to think that it 897 00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:50,759 Speaker 1: will just be able to remain down there at the 898 00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:53,640 Speaker 1: bottom of this uh this pit and uh you know, 899 00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:56,480 Speaker 1: and remain you know, untouched. No, I mean, it's it's 900 00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,319 Speaker 1: going to follow the uh you know, the natural laws 901 00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:02,520 Speaker 1: of erosion everything else, all right. So there you have 902 00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:06,319 Speaker 1: at the churches of Lolli Belah in Ethiopia, Uh, just 903 00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:11,440 Speaker 1: amazing structures. Again, we have not visited this this this 904 00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,360 Speaker 1: side in person, but we know that since we have, 905 00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:16,359 Speaker 1: we have listeners out there from all over the world, 906 00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:18,680 Speaker 1: and we have listeners that are that are well traveled. 907 00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,359 Speaker 1: In many cases, we know some of you have been 908 00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:24,160 Speaker 1: there and we would love to hear of your experiences. 909 00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:27,200 Speaker 1: Or if you haven't actually been to these monolithic churches, 910 00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:30,320 Speaker 1: perhaps you've been to some of the other monolithic churches 911 00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:32,839 Speaker 1: and there are a handful elsewhere in the world. We'd 912 00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:35,880 Speaker 1: love to hear about your experiences there. In the meantime, 913 00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:37,560 Speaker 1: if you want to check out more episodes of Stuff 914 00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:40,080 Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind, head on over to stuff to 915 00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,120 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind dot com. That will redirect you to 916 00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:44,239 Speaker 1: one of the many places you can find if you 917 00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:47,319 Speaker 1: can find the show wherever you get your podcasts and 918 00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:50,040 Speaker 1: wherever that happens to be. Just make sure that you subscribe, 919 00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,600 Speaker 1: make sure that you rate and review us, and uh yeah, 920 00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:57,080 Speaker 1: just tell a friend to let let someone else know 921 00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:59,439 Speaker 1: that Stuff to Blow your Mind or our other show 922 00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,160 Speaker 1: invention um you know, helps get you through the day 923 00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,640 Speaker 1: or taught you something you didn't know about previously huge things. 924 00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:09,280 Speaker 1: As always to our awesome audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. 925 00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:11,160 Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us 926 00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:13,760 Speaker 1: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 927 00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,440 Speaker 1: topic for the future, just to say hello, you can 928 00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:19,479 Speaker 1: email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind 929 00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:29,120 Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is a production 930 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:31,680 Speaker 1: of iHeart Radios. How stuff works. For more podcasts from 931 00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,520 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio is at the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 932 00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:39,560 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Radio