1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, 2 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: and welcome to the Salsa Cast. This is josh On 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: Chuck on tomato, He's onion. Jerry's the chili here and 4 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 1: you put us together, Chop us up, put us in 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: a blender, squish us under your armpit, let us drip 6 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: down the side of your chest, indo a bowl. Then 7 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:28,479 Speaker 1: you've got stuff you should know. 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 2: Just two guys trying to recapture the. 9 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: Match that's that's been irretrievably lost forever. 10 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 2: Anyway, Salsa, right, Yeah, people like to say salsa. 11 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: I'm glad somebody said that to get it out of 12 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: the way. I feel like we would have gotten in 13 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: trouble had we not actually said it. 14 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, now we can just move on. 15 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's move on because salsa, of course, what we're 16 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: talking about is the stuff that comes in and jar 17 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: at the grocery store that's loaded with high freakdase corn 18 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: syrup that you put on to tortillas and shovel in 19 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: your mouth, and just as Mexicans have done for thousands 20 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 1: of years. 21 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 2: Yes, not always, if there's plenty out there that aren't 22 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 2: loaded with highproot dust cornsrup, but you know a lot 23 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 2: of the big jarred stuff that you find in a 24 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 2: little silver caddy right beside the chips. Yes, a lot 25 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 2: of that stuff is so. 26 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of the stuff in the jark has 27 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: gotten good in recent years. And you can actually thank 28 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: the the I don't want to say cheap stuff, the 29 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: more generic super American versions, yes, for laying the groundwork 30 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: for those better versions to come. 31 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 2: Sure, but what we're doing is just talking about that 32 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 2: that thing that you dip your chip in, that that 33 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 2: we love, that had a that's still very popular, but 34 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 2: that got very, very famous in the late eighties and 35 00:01:54,680 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 2: nineties as sort of America's new favorite condiment, out selling 36 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 2: Ketchup very famously in nineteen ninety one. 37 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: And then it overtook cats Up in nineteen ninety six. 38 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 2: That's right, and we're gonna talk all about salsa. This 39 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 2: is a Dave Ruse joint, and Dave helped us out 40 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 2: with this, and he found somebody I don't even know 41 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 2: who this was. He just describes him as a Mexican 42 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 2: college student who said, watch watching someone shovel salsa with 43 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 2: a tortilla chip is strange to Mexicans, Like how an 44 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 2: American would feel watching someone drink salad dressing out of 45 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: a bottle. I do take issue a little bit. I 46 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 2: get the point, but I think that would be an 47 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 2: appropriate thing to say if we were just eating it 48 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 2: out of the jar, like shoveling it like directly like 49 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 2: a drink into our mouth. You know what I mean? 50 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: I do. But the point this guy's making, and I 51 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 1: was being a troll earlier when I was saying that 52 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: it was authentic just like Mexicans, do you eating salsa 53 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: with chips is thoroughly American? Yeah, And if you go 54 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: to Mexico, they don't serve chips in salsa, because maybe 55 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: a better analogy you would be like if you went 56 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: to Mexico and they served well chips and ketchup. Okay, 57 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: how about that. That's a very direct analogy. 58 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 2: Although I will say I have been to some super great, 59 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:32,959 Speaker 2: authentic places in Mexico City that would give you the 60 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: house specialty salsa with the large handmade tostadas and you 61 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 2: know they're handmade because they're all they're weird, irregularly shaped, 62 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 2: and you know they put like five or six of 63 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 2: those in a big wooden bowl and you can kind 64 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 2: of break those apart and eat them with your salsa. 65 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 2: I've seen that plenty of times. 66 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: Yes, had you looked around at that restaurant in Mexico City, 67 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: you would have noticed that you were the only one 68 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: who was served that, and it was because you were 69 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: wearing your American flag tank top. 70 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: Not true, my friend, it's on the menu. 71 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: Mexico City is pretty great. 72 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 2: Huh, it's the best. 73 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: I think we talked about it recently, right. 74 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, we talked about it when I got home, and 75 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 2: then since I went on that trip, you went on 76 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 2: a trip, and you had already been there before anyway, 77 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 2: But yeah, we got to you know, Reminisce a bit together. 78 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: I remember it was the brutalism episode that we talked 79 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: about my trip too. Yeah, probably that was great anyway. Yes, 80 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: Mexico City's wonderful. If you can make it down there 81 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: or over there up there, you should. 82 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,239 Speaker 2: But should we talk about the origins of salsa? 83 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, because again, let's just spell this out. Salsa in 84 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 1: Mexico is a condiment. 85 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, I think that's pretty clear. 86 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 1: I just wanted to make sure. Yes, let's go on 87 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: to the origins. 88 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 2: That is the stuff you should know. 89 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: Way though, we overstating something five times. 90 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 2: Just to get out the hammer, beat people over the 91 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 2: head with it. 92 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: I feel like that's the josh from stuff you shoul 93 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 1: in no way at least Well. 94 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 2: People are busy when they're listening, so you never know. 95 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 2: It might take that third or fourth mention. They'd be like, Wow, 96 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 2: I was washing dishes and I didn't even hear until 97 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 2: that last one. 98 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: Thanks Chuck. That's very supportive of you. I was thinking, 99 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: you know something we could do, yeah, is if we 100 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that somebody got the point we're 101 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: trying to make, to make sure they're paying attention, we 102 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: could just say something like beep right, and then insert 103 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 1: the fact that we're trying to get across so they'll 104 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: really pay attention. 105 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point. So if you want to 106 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 2: go back to the origins of salsa, you would have 107 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 2: to go back thousands of years in meso America, because 108 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:45,679 Speaker 2: in Central and South America they really loved to grow 109 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 2: chilies and tomatoes, and you put chilies and tomatoes together, 110 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 2: you're gonna have some kind of a salsa. 111 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, that's essentially the basic ingredients for salca. 112 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: You could make those. You can make a salsa with 113 00:05:58,760 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: just those two things. 114 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 2: Really could, and people do. 115 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: Some people do, Yeah, although over the years people have 116 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: added to it more and more. But yeah, as far 117 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: back as about nine ten thousand years ago, people were 118 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: making something similar to salsa like we would recognize it 119 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 1: as salsa today, and it just kept getting more and 120 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: more and more advanced and more expansive. Right at a 121 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: few thousand years of tinkering, something's going to get a 122 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: little more advanced, and sauce is no different. 123 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. The first person that we found that 124 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 2: has kind of written about this was a Franciscan priest 125 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 2: named Bernardino D. Sagan. I have no idea how to 126 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 2: pronounce it. Sahagan, Sahagan s a h g u n. 127 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 2: There was a record He wrote a lot about the 128 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 2: Aztec culture, and specifically in his Florentine codex, wrote about 129 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 2: a sauce in a food market, or different kinds of 130 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 2: sauces in a food market. To Nochi Slane, it's probably 131 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 2: not right either, but I'll just read through some of 132 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 2: this as a quote. Hot sauces, sauces with juices, shredded food, 133 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 2: with chili, with squash, seeds, with tomatoes, with smoked chili 134 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 2: with hot chili, with yellow chili with mild red chili sauce, 135 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 2: yellow chili sauce, hot chili sauce, bird excrement sauce, sauce 136 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 2: of smoked chili, heated sauces, bean sauce, toasted beans, cooked beans, 137 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 2: mushroom sauce. You get the idea O going. You have 138 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 2: to find Oh, okay, why not sauce of small squash, 139 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 2: sauce of large tomatoes, sauce of ordinary tomatoes, sauce of 140 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 2: various kinds of sour herbs, avocado sauce, end quote. 141 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: Shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. 142 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 2: That's exact sandwich what I was thinking. 143 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: That's about that. 144 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's talking about sausa there. 145 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, very clearly. And again this stuff had been 146 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: around for thousands of years, and they were just selling 147 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: it like it was nothing. Because it was nothing because 148 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: in Mexico, salsa is a condiment. 149 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 2: That's right, traditionally prepared in the Aztecs. And still you'll 150 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 2: see these today, and in fact, I have one in 151 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 2: my kitchen. I think you do too, right. 152 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I also have a masa maker that you got 153 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: me as well. 154 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 2: Oh that's right. A moca heete is a lava rock 155 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 2: mortar and pestle. They're very very heavy. If you get 156 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 2: like a real deal one. I can recommend this as 157 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 2: a gift like a housewarming gift to someone, apartment warming gift, 158 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 2: Like you can spend like fifty to seventy bucks on 159 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 2: like a really really nice, heavy duty, real deal mocha hete. 160 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 2: And it's a great gift for someone because when you 161 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 2: pull this thing out at a dinner party and you're 162 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 2: grinding the either salsa together table side or if you're 163 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 2: making some guacamole table side, it's a really kind of fancy, 164 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 2: fun thing to do. Not fancy but fun. 165 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: It really warms whatever structure you're trying to warm. 166 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:57,439 Speaker 2: Agreed. 167 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 1: So the chili so tomato, we need to make sure 168 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: everybody knows that tomato is indigenous to Mesoamerica, right, I 169 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: think you kind of intimato that earlier. 170 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 2: Correct. 171 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: Same with Chili's and when the Colombian exchange began. Specifically, 172 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: when Christopher Columbus tried Chili's for the first time, he 173 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: compared them to black pepper because that was probably the 174 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 1: spiciest thing you'd ever tasted in his life, and in Spanish, 175 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: you call that pimento, And so that's why in English 176 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: we call chili's peppers. But really chili is a noatla word. 177 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: I think cheese chili. Yeah, and then they switched the 178 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: eye to an e and here we go. Yeah. 179 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 2: I mean, I've never heard the word pepper said by 180 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,079 Speaker 2: people from Mexico. Maybe they do, but I've always just 181 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 2: heard them called chilies. Sure, because you know, Christopher Columbus 182 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 2: got it wrong, got it other thing wrong. 183 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,119 Speaker 1: That's crazy. Who'd have thought. 184 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 2: The word sasa was already a word in Spanish. It 185 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 2: was a generic word for sauce. And I think it 186 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 2: was a Spanish priest in a dictionary published in fifteen 187 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:18,959 Speaker 2: seventy one that actually put that in the dictionary in 188 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 2: Aztec style tomade a chili condiment listed as sasa in 189 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 2: that sixteenth century dictionary. 190 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: Case closed. I think that's taking a break time if 191 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: you ask. 192 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 2: Me, oh, sure, let's do it. 193 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: You want to it? 194 00:10:33,760 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 3: Okay. 195 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: So it's not like salsa was an immediate hit over 196 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: in Europe. First of all, Christopher Columbus had misdirected everybody, 197 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: and they thought it was basically like black pepper. The 198 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: chilis I should say were. But the bigger problem was 199 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: that people in Europe, and I swear we've talked about 200 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: this before, people in Europe initially thought tomatoes were a 201 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: deadly part of the night shade family. Yeah, you did 202 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: not want to eat a tomato. It was toxic, at 203 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 1: the very least potentially deadly combined with something that was 204 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: kind of like black pepper. Why would you ever want 205 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: to eat something like that? But slowly, but surely, about 206 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: almost seventeen hundreds, a guy named Antonio Latini became the 207 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: first person to write down a recipe for what you 208 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: would recognize as salsa, even though he called it Spanish 209 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: style tomato sauce. 210 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess he was Italian, and so they were 211 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 2: just liking it too, like regular tomato sauce. 212 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: Maybe, I think so, because the basis of it is 213 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: pretty much tomatoes, but it has everything else, like you 214 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: would want chili, peppers, onions, thyme, which is I guess 215 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: the traditional ingredient found outside of Mexico for salsa. 216 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, but combining the hot chilies with the tomato, I 217 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 2: think you also threw in their salt, oil and vinegar. 218 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 2: And at the very end of this recipe, little gross 219 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 2: that says it is a very tasty sauce, both for 220 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 2: boiled dishes or anything else. Boiled dishes, boiled bacon. 221 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: Oh God, do you remember that Better Off Dead? 222 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 2: Uh? No, I don't remember that. 223 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: His mom boiled boiled the mom and a Jonky's X 224 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: mom boiled everything. And at one point she's serving bacon 225 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: and it's boiled in like this kind of weird light 226 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: green whitish colors. It's really good. Pot. 227 00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 2: I remember her making a that was a weird part 228 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 2: of that movie that everything she made was strange. 229 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: French fries. 230 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good stuff. So the other way that the 231 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 2: Coleman Exchange worked, obviously, was things in Europe were introduced 232 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 2: to the New World and all of a sudden, things 233 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 2: like onion would come along or although they did have 234 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 2: wild onion is indigenous to North America, but garlic cilantro, 235 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 2: believe it or not, not indigenous to North America, coomen nuts, 236 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 2: all these kind of unique vegetable oils and animal fats 237 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 2: that comes Mexico's way, and they're like, oh, we know 238 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 2: just how to use this, so thank you for introducing 239 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 2: us to it. 240 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was weird. If you look around the Internet, 241 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: you'll see that some people claim that animal fats and 242 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: vegetable oils are not indigenous to Mesoamerica. And of course 243 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: they are, because there's animals walking around that have fat, 244 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: and there's vegetables there that have fat. Yeah, but apparently 245 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: they did not make great use of this stuff, Like 246 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: they didn't use fats very often. They usually charred stuff 247 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: or grilled it or boiled it. They and then they 248 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: would add like salsa fat free salsa as like the 249 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: condiment to it. But yeah, I found that kind of 250 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: mind blowing because if you saw them, think about it, 251 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: there's a lot of Mexican food, like actual authentic Mexican 252 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: food that does isn't fatty at all. It's just kind 253 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: of charred with a sauce. Yeah, that has no fat too. 254 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: It's interesting. I just never thought about that. 255 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you said a key thing there too, which 256 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 2: we should mention, which is fat free. That's one of 257 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 2: the reasons sausa became so big in the eighties and 258 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 2: nineties because that was during the golden age of everything 259 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 2: must be fat free. So salsa was like, you know, 260 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 2: it wasn't some some some fatty condiment. There were no 261 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 2: fatty condiments really or were there now that I'm thinking about. 262 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: It, chunky style, fatty continent? 263 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 2: Oh god, So now we're to talk about a couple 264 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 2: of other sauces and that sounds like something from like 265 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 2: a future movie or something. 266 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: Remember like the beer that just it's white, It's just 267 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: all white. Can it just says beer in like a 268 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: thick black font. 269 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they had that in La on my first 270 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 2: visit years ago. 271 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, you got me a can of it? 272 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 2: Did I really? 273 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: Did I send you a can of it? Yeah? So 274 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: that's exactly what that label would look like. 275 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 2: You're exactly right. Generic. We're gonna talk about a couple 276 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 2: of things now that are close to salsa but not 277 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 2: and that is moley and hot sauce. We're not gonna 278 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 2: spend too much time on this because I think most 279 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 2: people kind of know the difference, but the line can 280 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 2: kind of be blurred. I would say the main difference 281 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 2: in Molay is that Molay is it's it's basically always puades. 282 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 2: It's not gonna be it's never gonna be chunky. Kind 283 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 2: of the same with hot sauce. But Molay also usually 284 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 2: has like I mean, if you got a good mole 285 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 2: going you're talking fifteen twenty up to thirty or more ingredients. 286 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 2: That's kind of what makes molay a mole. 287 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you have a really sophisticated layered tastes with 288 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: molay that can be like, it can be tangy. It 289 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: can also be kind of like weirdly raisin a or 290 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: mushroomy or something like that. It's it's different. But as 291 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: far as a person walking around Mexico's concern, that'd be 292 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: like comparing ketchup to gravy. They're just different. Yes, they 293 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: both go on your food, but in different ways, in 294 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: different contexts and different amounts, And gravy is probably not 295 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: even a good example, but it's the best I can 296 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: come up with. But salsa means sauce, but molay is 297 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: sauce because, as everyone who's listened to this episode up 298 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: to this point knows, salsa is a condiment, not a sauce. 299 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you would add it to the top of 300 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 2: a taco or a toastata, whereas the mole it would 301 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 2: be like you know, chicken moley. It typically has like 302 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 2: the chicken completely drenched in the sauce when it hits 303 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 2: the table. 304 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: Right like the very famous joke in Mexico you want 305 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: some chicken with that mole ad, But then they say 306 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: that in Spanish. 307 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 2: And the other thing is hot sauce. Of course, also 308 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 2: different hot sauce meant to be, although there were some 309 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,239 Speaker 2: super hot sauces. Hot sauce is generally only hot and 310 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 2: meant to be, you know, dabbed on a few drops 311 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 2: at a time, and also not chunky, and also usually 312 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 2: has vinegar, which you're not going to find in a 313 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 2: lot of salsa. 314 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: No, not at all. And apparently hot sauce itself is 315 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: It traces itself back to Massachusetts the very beginning of 316 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century. That was where it came from, but 317 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: it got pretty popular south of the border as well, 318 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: because it does involve chilies in some form or fashion. 319 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: Usually it's chili, vinegar and salt are the three ingredients. Yes, 320 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: and there's some good stuff out there, but yeah, it's 321 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,679 Speaker 1: not really salsa, although as we'll see, is it chips 322 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 1: and salsa. 323 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 2: Time we're gonna have some. 324 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: I would love some. After researching all this, which, by 325 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: the way, hat tip to Dave big thanks for helping 326 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 1: us out with this one. 327 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 2: Big hat tip. Now I say we hold off on 328 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 2: the chips and salsa. That was surprising because we have 329 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 2: to go we have to I mean, chips and sauce 330 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 2: is an American thing, like he said, So we got 331 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 2: to go back to kind of when this hit the 332 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 2: States in a big way. And anyone who knows the 333 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 2: history of North America knows that a lot of the 334 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 2: United States used to be Mexican territory. Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, 335 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 2: and Nevada, California. A lot of Colorado was Mexico. But 336 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 2: once that was no longer Mexico, there were still a 337 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 2: lot of people living there, Mexican communities, Mexican culture, Mexican foods, 338 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 2: and so it should come as no surprise that Texas 339 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 2: and California and New Mexico and Arizona and places like 340 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 2: that have always had and still continue to have a 341 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 2: thriving Mexican food scene there. And this was true back 342 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 2: in the nineteen twenties and thirties when salsa kind of 343 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 2: came on the scene. 344 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so the collision between often Anglo or other 345 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: kind of European settlers in this area colliding with former 346 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: Spanish settlers and indigenous people in the area. They kind 347 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 1: of came together to form like kind of a hybrid 348 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: between Mexican and what would be American cuisine. So things 349 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: like tex mex or Calimes or Southwest mex was born, 350 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: which is was originally at least authentic Mexican dishes, but 351 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: kind of toned down a little bit, made a little blander, 352 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: made a little more Yorkshire putting it, you know what 353 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 1: I mean? 354 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, not as hot, made for the American palette. I 355 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 2: think Dave dug up this recipe from nineteen thirty four 356 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 2: in the La Times for chili salsa. The name of 357 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 2: the article was Delicacies from Mexico. And even though it 358 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 2: said in the article the salsa has used in many 359 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 2: Spanish dishes, I think it was just a time when 360 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 2: they were like Mexico Spain was the difference, right when 361 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,400 Speaker 2: in back much there's a pretty big difference, including an 362 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:18,360 Speaker 2: ocean in between them. 363 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. And also the recipe included parsley and flour. Yeah, 364 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: you just don't see that in many salsa dishes, So 365 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: it was kind of text MESI for sure. I think 366 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: even before text mex really was a thing. But going 367 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: back to salsa and the idea that salsa, I think 368 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: I said, the good stuff in jars today was built 369 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: on the shoulders of the less good stuff of yesteryear. 370 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: You can kind of trace that. No shade also, by 371 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: the way, I hope I'm not coming off that way. 372 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: I'm not throwing shade at anybody like David Pace, who 373 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: innovated and really kind of introduced America to salsa, but 374 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: at the same time made it more palatable to his market. 375 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 1: He took salsa and took it from a condiment which 376 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,439 Speaker 1: it is in Mexico and made it into kind of 377 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: like a snack or an appetizer. So a dip, I 378 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: guess is a better way to put it. Yeah. 379 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 2: David Paste was a Louisiana guy, born and raised. His 380 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 2: family was in the molasses business, bottling molasses, so he 381 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 2: had a background and bottling and jarring a food product. 382 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 2: Went to World War Two, settled down in San Antonio, 383 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 2: Texas eventually where the Mexican food scene is, and was 384 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 2: in his robust You've been there, right, You've talked about 385 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 2: the food there with me, I believe privately. 386 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, definitely, it's good stuff. 387 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 2: Never been there, I gotta do it. But he loved 388 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 2: that chili salsa that he would get locally at different 389 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 2: Mexican restaurants, and he, like you said, he settled down 390 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 2: the taste a little bit made of his own, his 391 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 2: own variety called paste pecante. Pecante is an adjective meaning 392 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: spicy or pungent. If you notice, if you look at 393 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 2: the jar, it didn't say sauce on there, Nope, it 394 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 2: says pecante sauce. And the tomato was the star that 395 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 2: Chile took a little bit of the back seat, and 396 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 2: he had a goal to be what he said was 397 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 2: the hinds of salsa. And although he did well, it 398 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 2: would be his son in law, Kit Goldsbury, who would 399 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 2: really kind of kick that brand to the next level. 400 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean think that's pretty ambitious. I want to 401 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: be the hinds of salsa. And it actually turned out 402 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: that way, but just yeah, not under his watch. He 403 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: retired and Kit took over, think about the late seventies, 404 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 1: sometime in the seventies, and at that same time there 405 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: was a health craze going through America that translated, like 406 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: I think you said earlier by the eighties into everything 407 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 1: has to be fat free yea, And salsa again is 408 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: basically by definition fat free. So it was ready made 409 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: to step up and kind of take the spotlight. And 410 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 1: the Pace was very lucky that Kit Goldsberry was in 411 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: charge because he, I guess knew a great opportunity. We 412 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,880 Speaker 1: saw it and just pushed Pace into the mainstream through 413 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: a really clever, earwormy kind of advertising campaign that people 414 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: still say today. You make me say it sometimes when 415 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: you say New York City, I mean you stopped and 416 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: been like you're not gonna say it. And that's from 417 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: like the like nineteen eighty nine was when that first 418 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: ad came out. 419 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, And in nineteen ninety three we got 420 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 2: the famous line, get a rope. You go look this 421 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 2: thing up on YouTube. This ad ran for ten years 422 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 2: from ninety three to two thousand and three. When they 423 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 2: are one of the Camp Cowboy camp guys is chastising 424 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 2: Cookie the cook because he's using salsa from New York 425 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 2: City and they all go New York City and an 426 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 2: actor named Ralph Bonzo bear Stedman uttered those famous three 427 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 2: words get a rope even though Dave, did you notice 428 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 2: he put get the rope in here? I did get 429 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 2: the rope. I got so mad at Dave. 430 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 1: Did you send him an email. 431 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 2: No, but he's listening, So I just wanted to tell 432 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 2: him this way geez. But yeah, Ralph Bonzobar Steedman was 433 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 2: just want to shout him out because it's an iconic 434 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 2: commercial mine that's kind of up there with where's the beef? 435 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 2: And he's a guy, here's a beef? Oh she passed 436 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 2: away to no. 437 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: Instead of where's the beef? Well, abe, where's the beef? 438 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 2: Where's a beef? 439 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: Quote? 440 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 2: I love it, Sorry, Dave, but Ralph was from the 441 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 2: Pacific Northwest, seemed like a really good guy, did lots 442 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,120 Speaker 2: of local acting and voice acting, and he passed away 443 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 2: in twenty fourteen and left a very sweet family behind. 444 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 2: So big shout out to Bonzo Bear. 445 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: So yeah, So this this ad campaign New York City, 446 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: it just it came at a perfect time. The product 447 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: was perfect. Not only were people trying to get more 448 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: fat free and salsa was a great, great alternative to 449 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: everything else like ketchup and stuff. People were also like 450 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: trying new tastes, exotic ethnic tastes like Mexican salsa. Chunky 451 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: style was just really you were really sophisticated if you 452 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,159 Speaker 1: ate salta not ketchup. At a time in like the 453 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: late eighties, so it really it just everything just came 454 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: together and so all of a sudden, America just falls 455 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 1: in love with salsa and still today. Like even in hindsight, 456 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,959 Speaker 1: I know this sounds kind of unnecessarily hysterical, but I 457 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 1: can't believe that salsa ever outsold ketchup. It's mind boggling 458 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 1: to me, like that it was that popular, and it 459 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: stayed pretty popular, and like I was saying, it just 460 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: kept getting better and better and better to wear. The 461 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: stuff that you buy in jars at the grocery store 462 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: today is often pretty good, really good. 463 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, And chances are your local grocery store even have 464 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 2: like a like a housemade version that they sell in 465 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 2: in like the little plastic containers. It has a you know, 466 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 2: a cell by date on it, that kind of thing. 467 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 2: Sure you usually see of those. My favorites are the 468 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 2: well we'll save that, but again, chips and sauces is 469 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 2: a pretty American thing. They do have the toastata in Mexico, 470 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 2: but a toastata is used to sort of like an 471 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,679 Speaker 2: open face taco to put stuff on top of and 472 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 2: then you'll put your sauce on top of that. But 473 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 2: we do have a few competing origin stories for the 474 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 2: origin of tortilla chips, which is pretty fun, I think. 475 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 1: Yeah. As told in the Stuff You Should Know Book, 476 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: The Incomplete Compendium, we talk about the invention of Fredo's, 477 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: specifically by a guy named Elmer Doolan. Wonder where or 478 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: remember when we talked about freedo feet get Friedo smell 479 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 1: on their feet? That chapter features an illustration of Momo 480 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: wearing a long haircut. 481 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 2: That's right. If you don't ever book, you should get 482 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 2: it just to see Momo in there. It's a good 483 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 2: illustration too. 484 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 1: It is. It's great. And as a matter of fact, 485 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: we're not even going to tell you that story. You 486 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:09,679 Speaker 1: have to go read it in the book. 487 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 2: That's Oh you want to do that? Yeah, all right, 488 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 2: you want to hear about Elmer Dulan. Go drop. You'll 489 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 2: probably get that thing for like six bucks. Now, go 490 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 2: to your library even yeah, get it for free. Go 491 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 2: crack a book. All right. Let's move on to story 492 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:29,360 Speaker 2: number two, then, Josh Chick. That Rebecca Webb Caranza. She's 493 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,400 Speaker 2: married to Anny Mario and they own the El Zarapa 494 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 2: Tortilla factory in La in the nineteen forties and they 495 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 2: made corn tortillas kind of straight up. But when they 496 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 2: had a misshape and tortillas that they couldn't you know, 497 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 2: that didn't look like the rest, they couldn't sell those, 498 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 2: or thought they couldn't, And they would cut them into 499 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 2: triangles and fry them up and sell them as torch chips. 500 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 2: And apparently it was a pretty big seller in the 501 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 2: nineteen forties and fifties regionally and then then eventually I 502 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:57,360 Speaker 2: think nationwide even. 503 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, imagine like you had tortilla chips that 504 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: you could buy in the forties. Of course you'd be 505 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: crazy for that. Like there wasn't a lot of competition 506 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: at the time, you know what I mean, snack wise. 507 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think this number three, though, is probably 508 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 2: the leading Canada though. Don't you think it's gotta be? 509 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: Because number one he predates everybody by a few decades exactly. 510 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: And number two he was known as the Corn King 511 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: of San Antonio. His name was jose Bartolome Martinez. He 512 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: looked like a well Hispanic Teddy. 513 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 2: Roosevelt, Okay, he kind of does. 514 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 1: And he was called the Corn King for nothing. He 515 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 1: set up the first industrial scale mill for grinding corn 516 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: in the United States, and he apparently had four different 517 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: mills around San Antonio at one point and was pumping 518 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: out sixty thousand pounds of tortilla chips a day all 519 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: the way back in the nineteen teens. 520 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 2: That's amazing. 521 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: He probably was the guy who created the tortilla chip. 522 00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. And you know, it's a possible 523 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 2: to find out, like, hey, what was the first restaurant 524 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 2: that started just throwing that stuff on the table kind 525 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 2: of for free, although it's not for freed usually anymore. 526 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 2: Usually you get like a you can get like the 527 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 2: chips with a trio of salsas and like a cheese 528 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 2: dip for you know, seven or eight bucks. But there 529 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 2: are probably still some places that, you know, maybe some 530 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 2: of the chains throw it on the table for free, 531 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 2: like like Olive Garden does with that bread and salad. 532 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people think that it's kind of 533 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: sacrilegious to start charging for it, even if you're upgrading 534 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: the salsa. It's just it's a tradition that should be honored. 535 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: And restaurants are like that actually costs us a lot 536 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: of money. Yeah, people say I care not. 537 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 2: I mean, even if you pay something, they're gonna keep 538 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 2: giving you basket refills of chips. 539 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: I guess it just feels off paying for chips and salsa. 540 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: I'm fine with paying for queso, paying for guacamole, yeah yeah. 541 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: And if they are like we have like a higher 542 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: end salsa that we're not going to give you for free, 543 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: paying for that, that's fine. But there should be some 544 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: basic level salsa with chips at a Mexican restaurant in 545 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: the United States that's complimentary, even work it into your 546 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: price structure, but don't charge for it. There's something just 547 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: off about it, I think. 548 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 2: So like a fancy saucea like made with gold schlager 549 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 2: that would cost. 550 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: Right, they set it on fire table. 551 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 2: Side, all right, to each their own. 552 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: Nice Okay, but one more thing before we move on. 553 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: You said it was impossible to trace where the first 554 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: restaurant that started serving chips and salsa came from, and 555 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: that seems to be true, but there was an historian 556 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: on Reddit there ask Historians Subreddit. Somebody asked, like, what 557 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: the first restaurant was that started serving chips and salsa, 558 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: and this historian dug up something kind of close. It's 559 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: potentially a chain called Machao or El Nido, the parent 560 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: They apparently were owned by the same person in Phoenix 561 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: that by the early to mid seventies was already serving 562 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: chips and then transferred over from hot sauce people used 563 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: to put hot sauce on their chips to salsa, serving 564 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: salsa with chips, so it's possible that was the first 565 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: restaurant to do it. But was even more interesting is 566 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: that apparently before then people put hot sauce on their chips, 567 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: much like that analogy I was talking about earlier, of 568 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: putting ketchup on your chips. It's not that far off. 569 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 2: I love that you said that was much more interesting 570 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 2: than the the reddit historian. 571 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: Well no, the Reddit historian found all that, so kudos 572 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: to them. 573 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I gotcha. All right, So let's should we 574 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 2: just go over a few sauces here, or should we 575 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 2: take a break and do that. 576 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: I think we should take a break and come back 577 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: and tell people how to make their own. 578 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 2: All right, we'll be right back and we're going to 579 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 2: tell you how to get that mocha hette out and 580 00:31:53,080 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 2: get busy right after this. All right, The first sausa 581 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 2: we should talk about is just the classic. It's my 582 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,239 Speaker 2: favorite kind of sasa. Overall the Picota gayo. I love 583 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 2: a salsa that's almost nothing but chunks, which is basically 584 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 2: what picota guyo is. 585 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: Extremely fresh. 586 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, not a lot of saucy tomato in there, even 587 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 2: just you know, diced up tomato, onion, chilis, cilantro, lime juice, 588 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 2: a little bit of salt, ban bang boom. I throw 589 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 2: a little black pepper on top. That's just me. 590 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: Oh, Christopher Columbus would be proud, you sure would. 591 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 2: He was, like, see, but I really love just a 592 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 2: good standard. I love a lot of kinds of sauces, 593 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 2: but I love a standard pikota geyo for especially, uh well, 594 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 2: for both for eating with chips and with just putting 595 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 2: on tacos and stuff. 596 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: You know something I learned from researching this episode. I 597 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: just had never occurred to me to ask, but pico 598 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: de gayo actually means bek of the rooster or rooster's beak. 599 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: Did you know that? Uh? 600 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:25,479 Speaker 2: I didn't know that. 601 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: I always just thought it was meant gyo. It never 602 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: occurred to me because gyo, you know, that's like a 603 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: kind of beer and Guatemala and yeah, that's right. 604 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 2: All right, that's what I'm thinking of. Because it's got 605 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 2: a rooster on the bottle. 606 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, so they called it Beka the rooster apparently because 607 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: people used to eat pico de gayo with their their 608 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: index finger, middle finger, and thumb. They would just scoop 609 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: it into their mouths like and that resembles kind of 610 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: a chicken or a rooster beak diving into that bowld 611 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: piko de gyo, infecting it with all manner of communicable 612 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: diseases for the next person to take too, which is 613 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: actually kind of a problem with the fresh salceas. 614 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, anytime it's a fresh, fresh 615 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 2: produce like that, there could be the danger of some 616 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 2: sort of salmonilla or something. But lime juice will kill 617 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 2: that away, you hope. Can we talk about Chipotle? 618 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: Well, real quick, have you had this salsa schnea peck? 619 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 2: I have not. 620 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: I haven't either, but it sounds good. It's basically picoda 621 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: gaya with some stuff swapped out with. The thing I 622 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: find most interesting is rather than lime juice, sour orange juice. 623 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,279 Speaker 1: I'll bet that's good stuff, man, I bet it is. Okay, Yeah, 624 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: let's go on to Chipotle. 625 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 2: Yes, Chipotles are smoky, they're a little tang here. A 626 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,320 Speaker 2: lot of this stuff is usually roasted tomatoes, garlic, onion, 627 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 2: those chipotles. You roast those things up, get a little 628 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 2: little fire char on them, and then grind them or 629 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 2: blend them into a paste, and you got a pretty 630 00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:58,439 Speaker 2: good chipotle working. 631 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: Then there's severe Day, which is made from tomatillos, which 632 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,760 Speaker 1: have a green cast to them. They're like little tiny 633 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 1: green tomatoes, but tastes much better. I'm not sure what's 634 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: going on with to Maatio's, but they're pretty awesome. And 635 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: that one's just pretty straight up. Like you, you kind 636 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,240 Speaker 1: of want the toe matillo to stand out taste wise, 637 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,720 Speaker 1: but it can also be kind of hot, scarlicky ONIONI 638 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: there's some cilantro and all that, But the point is 639 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: that to maatillos are really it's a really toe matillo 640 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: forward salce. 641 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:30,799 Speaker 2: It's green. 642 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 1: Sure, that's why they call it Salsaveri day. Yeah, but 643 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,839 Speaker 1: I have to say, I just have to shout this out. 644 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: If you want a good jarred salsavere day, you could 645 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 1: do a lot worse than Trader Jos. 646 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 2: I don't know that I've ever had a jarred salsavere day. 647 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 1: Actually, it's really good and it's it's actually hard to 648 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: find a good one. I think Matao's makes a good 649 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,879 Speaker 1: salsaveride in the jar that you can get nationally, and 650 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,359 Speaker 1: Trader Joe's is your best bet for sure. 651 00:35:58,000 --> 00:35:59,919 Speaker 2: Do they ever do they get rid of the whole 652 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 2: Trader Jose thing? 653 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. I haven't looked closely, but I have 654 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: seen that fairly recently. But maybe it was an out 655 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: of date product that I bought. 656 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't go to Trader Jones. I did when 657 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 2: I lived in La because it was convenient, but I 658 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 2: haven't been in years. Salsa macha is something that I 659 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 2: was introduced to on my Mexico city trip that i'd 660 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 2: never had before. My good friend PJ, who is an 661 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:30,399 Speaker 2: outstanding cook and especially outstanding Mexican chef. His parents owned 662 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,760 Speaker 2: a Mexican restaurant, legendary Mexican restaurant New Jersey for decades 663 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 2: that recently closed, but Mexican Food Factory shout them out nice. 664 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:40,879 Speaker 2: I guarantee you there's some listeners that have been there. 665 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,840 Speaker 2: But PJ was like, you got to have the salsa 666 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,799 Speaker 2: macha you just you won't believe it, and just just 667 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 2: try it. 668 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: It sounds awesome. 669 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 2: It's great. It's not like a traditional sauce that you'd see. 670 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,760 Speaker 2: It's like an oil so you've got your your dried chilis, 671 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 2: of course, but you also have like ground peanuts, garlic, sesame, 672 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 2: seeds of oil and vinegar, so no tomato in this guy. 673 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 2: It's really really great. I'm surprised you didn't run across 674 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 2: it in Mexico City, but next time you have the opportunity, 675 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 2: I urge you to try it. 676 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: I will. It sounds really awesome, for sure. And that 677 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 1: one comes from Vera Cruz, which also gave us pescato 678 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 1: Vera Cruz, which is the best way to have a fish. 679 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 2: Yeah. I thought it was hawking for some reason, but 680 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 2: I guess I got bad information. 681 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: That's all right, as long as you enjoyed it. 682 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I love all I mean, that's the wonderful 683 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 2: thing about going to. 684 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: Well. 685 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 2: I mean now in the United States, Mexican restaurants have 686 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 2: gotten so varied. Now you can find, especially in the 687 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 2: last decade, so many more options. Besides like tex Mechs 688 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,320 Speaker 2: in Mexicali, which I still love that sort of americanized version, 689 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 2: but you can find some great authentic places and well 690 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,320 Speaker 2: hawking places and places that are more seafood forward, and 691 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,800 Speaker 2: it's just they're really representing all the flavors of Mexico 692 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 2: here in the States now. And it's not a bad thing. 693 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: No, it's not at all. It's a great thing. As 694 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: matter fact. You don't ever have to leave the US. 695 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:05,879 Speaker 1: Everybody just comes to us. 696 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:08,919 Speaker 2: Do you want to go where some of these other 697 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 2: non Mexican versions. 698 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, the one that suck out to me was a hey, creolo, 699 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 1: crelo creolo. That's right. It's like creole sauce. And in 700 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,360 Speaker 1: Peru they make it with like sour cream or mayo, 701 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:28,319 Speaker 1: some garlic and then Ahi peppers which are orange, and 702 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,759 Speaker 1: it sounds really good. But there's also a confusing Ecuadorian 703 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: version that is not like that at all. 704 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, that one has. Yeah, it's got the same exact name, 705 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,400 Speaker 2: so it is very confusing. It's got the same chili's, 706 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:49,360 Speaker 2: the ihi i guess aji chilies, but they don't have 707 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 2: dairy products. It's not creamy. They use vinegar instead. 708 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: Yes, which is pretty much the antithesis of a creamy 709 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 1: dairy product. 710 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 2: Vinegar is yeah, and Dave said it's pretty ubiq. It's 711 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 2: just like ketchup on the table. 712 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's a condiment. 713 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 2: He also threw in Chimmy Chury in here from Uruguay 714 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 2: slash Argentina. I don't know. I don't know if Chimmy 715 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 2: chury belongs anywhere near this list. It just seems like 716 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 2: such its own thing. 717 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: Well, there's not a single pepper or onion in it. 718 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: I don't think or pepper, tomato, yeah, is there there's 719 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 1: I don't think there's peppers in Chimmy chury. Is there? 720 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: I think it's all like parsley and garlic, cilantro, garlic, 721 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 1: a lot of oil. I don't think there's peppers. It's good, 722 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:36,760 Speaker 1: but I don't think it's salsa. 723 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 2: I agree. Should we just got this part out? 724 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,320 Speaker 1: No, we need to leave it in as a lesson 725 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 1: to everybody never to call chimmy churry salsa or else. 726 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: I have to answer to us. 727 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,799 Speaker 2: Well, Dave put it in there, so you know what 728 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 2: I have to say Todave is get the rope. 729 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:52,800 Speaker 1: Where's the beef? 730 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:53,280 Speaker 2: David? 731 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: There was one other thing I wanted to mention to Oh. 732 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:02,720 Speaker 1: It was a shout out the greatest free table side 733 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 1: salsa in any restaurant in the United States is to 734 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 1: be found at a chain in Atlanta called Lafondah. They're 735 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,880 Speaker 1: doing something to their salsa that is unparallel. It's the 736 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:19,279 Speaker 1: most sophisticated free salsa you've ever seen, and it's not 737 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,880 Speaker 1: small batch. They have little bats of it sitting around 738 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 1: in the restaurant waiting to be served. But it is 739 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: so good it's worth traveling to Atlanta just to try 740 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 1: that salsa, which gives it a Michelin Star two in 741 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:32,800 Speaker 1: my opinion. 742 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 2: Well, you'll be glad to know that. Then, my friend, 743 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 2: there is a Lafonda that opened up right down the 744 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,839 Speaker 2: street for me. All right, let's do dinner last year. 745 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:47,320 Speaker 2: And if you go to the East Lake Lafonda, everyone, 746 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,920 Speaker 2: I can encourage you to go across the street on 747 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 2: Second Avenue. If you go walk by the other restaurants here, 748 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 2: mixed up burgers, you will see the East Lake Garden. 749 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:04,319 Speaker 2: And that is a community garden that Emily and I run. 750 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 2: Emily runs that thing. If you go there and it 751 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 2: looks beautiful and there are all kinds of herbs planted 752 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,840 Speaker 2: and flowers and stuff planted in beds. That is Emily's 753 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 2: hard work, because she's basically a full time gardener. 754 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,399 Speaker 1: Now that's awesome, man, What a great way to spend time. 755 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the Eastlake Garden is just open for the 756 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,440 Speaker 2: public to use and enjoy after you've had some Lafonda. 757 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,280 Speaker 2: And she just recently put up a new Instagram page 758 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:32,759 Speaker 2: for the garden, so if you want to didn't have 759 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 2: a lot on there yet, but it's you know, if 760 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:36,719 Speaker 2: you want to follow the story, you can go to 761 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:41,239 Speaker 2: east Underscore Lake Underscore Garden and check it out. 762 00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, he just gets stuffed on Lafonda and walk around 763 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,319 Speaker 1: the community gardens in East Lake. That sounds that's right, 764 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,239 Speaker 1: pleasant evening man. Yeah, all right, so yeah, we'll do 765 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 1: that and I can finally give you your birthday present 766 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:54,640 Speaker 1: from like six months ago. 767 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 2: Great. Oh, and you'll not it's the Eastlake Garden because 768 00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 2: there's a sign this says east Lake Garden and painted 769 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 2: by local legend artists our land. 770 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:06,720 Speaker 1: Is that the one with the praying hands. 771 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the cat the praying hands and lost cat 772 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:14,800 Speaker 2: and uh pray for Atlanta when during COVID. So Ronnie's 773 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 2: a very long time Atlanta resident and very popular local artist. 774 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 2: And we've commission Ronnie to do lots of things, including 775 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 2: the sign for the East like garden in his unique 776 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:25,080 Speaker 2: amazing style. 777 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,959 Speaker 1: And this is this has been hot Lanta talk. 778 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,880 Speaker 2: Josh shot, Yeah, that's it for salsa. Go out and 779 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:34,080 Speaker 2: eat salsa every day. 780 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 1: Yes, go eat salsa, Go learn how to make molais, 781 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 1: and just enjoy life. How about that? Yes, Chuck said, yes, 782 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,000 Speaker 1: that means it's listener mail time. I tricked him into it. 783 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:51,000 Speaker 2: This is a good one. This is from Tamra, and 784 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:56,080 Speaker 2: Tamara included a post script pronunciation, I'm looking at real quick. Okay, 785 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,400 Speaker 2: got it? Hey, guys. Listening to the Widowhood episode reminded 786 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:04,520 Speaker 2: me of one of my favor stories about my great grandmother, Judida. 787 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,640 Speaker 2: When my grandmother was little nineteen thirty Pennsylvania, her father 788 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,840 Speaker 2: supported the family as a coal miner, and her mother, Judida, 789 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,160 Speaker 2: stayed at home raising six children. She was an immigrant 790 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,439 Speaker 2: from Italy didn't speak a word of English. My great 791 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 2: grandfather was in a mining accident and sent to a 792 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,320 Speaker 2: hospital hours away with an injury he could not recover 793 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,520 Speaker 2: from keeping him bedridden. You mentioned that children of widows 794 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,319 Speaker 2: were considered orphans. Well, brother, I'm here to tell you 795 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 2: so were children of those whose fathers were in the hospital. 796 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,640 Speaker 2: Even Wow, there was at an actual court hearing for 797 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,480 Speaker 2: the children, where presumably they would be sent into the 798 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:40,360 Speaker 2: foster system. My great grandmother got a lawyer. No idea 799 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,960 Speaker 2: how that happened, but the judge was entering the courtroom, 800 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,839 Speaker 2: my great grandmother was holding a conversation in Italian with 801 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 2: her lawyer that went something like this, are they going 802 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,040 Speaker 2: to take my children? Yes, it's very likely, and it 803 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,520 Speaker 2: will cost the money to feed, house and clothe my children. Right, Yes, 804 00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 2: that's right. Then why don't they give me the money 805 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,480 Speaker 2: and I'll take care of my own children. Just so 806 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,320 Speaker 2: happened that judge was fluent and Italian, understood the please 807 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,279 Speaker 2: and logic of my great grandmother, and that's exactly the 808 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:08,359 Speaker 2: arrangement they came to. 809 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:09,120 Speaker 1: Awesome. 810 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:11,919 Speaker 2: My grandmother recalls that her oldest brother was in charge 811 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,399 Speaker 2: of accounting for all the money they received from the state, 812 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 2: documenting exactly how it was spent. They were lucky that 813 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:18,440 Speaker 2: was a little bit left over at the end of 814 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,960 Speaker 2: the month. They got some penny candy. And whenever I 815 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,480 Speaker 2: think life of is rough, I recalled Judida, and knowing 816 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 2: that her blood is in me and seeing the strong 817 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,280 Speaker 2: line of women I come from, gives me the confidence 818 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,680 Speaker 2: I need to tackle whatever comes my way. 819 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 1: Very nice, what a great email. 820 00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:36,960 Speaker 2: Great email that's from Tama, and she was thrilled to 821 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,719 Speaker 2: know that she would be on and everyone will be 822 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,920 Speaker 2: happy to know that her grandmother is still alive at 823 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,200 Speaker 2: ninety seven years old and is going to hear this email. 824 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:50,960 Speaker 1: So hello Grandma, Hello Grandma, and thanks a lot, Tamara. 825 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 1: If you want to be like Tamara and send us 826 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,840 Speaker 1: an awesome email, we're always up for that, all you 827 00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,600 Speaker 1: have to do is send it off to Stuff podcast 828 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:05,279 Speaker 1: at iHeartRadio dot Calm. Stuff you Should Know is a 829 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:06,600 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. 830 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,279 Speaker 2: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 831 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,400 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.