1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: Oh, hang on your frozen Hello. Hello, Hello, how there 2 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: we go? You're back? Sorry, Minnie. I just don't worry. 3 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: It's live stuff. We've got a tape off clearance clearance 4 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: on the internet. That's great. Yeah, thank you so much 5 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: for doing this. I really really appreciate it. And you're welcome. Hello, 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: I'm Mini Driver. Welcome to Many Questions, Season two. I've 7 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: always loved Cruz's questionnaire. It was originally a nineteenth century 8 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: parlor game where players would ask each other thirty five 9 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: questions aimed at revealing the other player's true nature. It's 10 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: just the scientific method, really. In asking different people the 11 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: same set of questions, you can make observations about which 12 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: truths appeared to be universal. I love this discipline, and 13 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: it made me wonder, what if these questions were just 14 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: the jumping off point, what greater depths would be revealed 15 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: if I ask these questions as conversations daters with thought leaders, 16 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: and trailblazers across all these different disciplines. So I adapted 17 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: prus questionnaire and I wrote my own seven questions that 18 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: I personally think a pertinent to a person's story. They 19 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: are when and where were you happiest? What is the 20 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 1: quality you like least about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized, 21 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: defines love for you? What question would you most like answered, 22 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: What person, place, or experience has shaped you the most? 23 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 1: What would be your last meal? And can you tell 24 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: me something in your life that's grown out of a 25 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: personal disaster? And I've gathered a group of really remarkable people, 26 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: ones that I am honored and humbled to have had 27 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: the chance to engage with. You may not hear their 28 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: answers to all seven of these questions. We've whittled it 29 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: down to which questions felt closest to their experience, or 30 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: the most surprising, or created the most fertile ground to connect. 31 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: My guest today on many questions is journalist Christiane AmAm Poor. 32 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: I try not to be intimidated by the ideas I 33 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,279 Speaker 1: might have about the extraordinary people I interview on the show, 34 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: but knowing I was going to be speaking to one 35 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: of the great interviewers of the twenty one century definitely 36 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: gave me pause. I mean, Yessa Arafat hung up on 37 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: her and Bill Clinton, well, he snapped like a corner teenager. 38 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: Christianne has won every major television journalism award interviewed every 39 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: single geopolitical player of the last twenty five years, and 40 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: her journalism made such an impact during the war in 41 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: the former Yugoslavia that she was made an honorary citizen 42 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 1: of Sara Jevo. It's really important to say that this 43 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: conversation was recorded before Russia started a war by invading Ukraine. 44 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: The world looks very different today than it did three 45 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: weeks ago. But I think the observations Christiane makes about 46 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: conflict are eerily poignant. I really hope you enjoy this one. 47 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: My first question is can you tell me where and 48 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: when you were happiest? So I've thought about it a lot, 49 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 1: and I don't think there's ever for anybody one particular 50 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: place or space or time. I remember it in three steps, 51 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: really I had, I would say indisputably one of the 52 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: happiest childhoods that I can even imagine, and that you know, 53 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 1: I've spoken to a lot of friends and asked them 54 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: and just you know, the osmosis and conversation as you're going, 55 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: you know, you understand how people have lived their lives 56 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: and what has made a difference and has shaped them. 57 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: And I don't think I've ever heard anybody say what 58 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: I feel, which is that I am the luckiest person 59 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: in the world. You know, I grew up in Iran 60 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: of an English father and adversion father. My mom Catholic, 61 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: my father Muslim. You know, it was a patriarchal and 62 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: a non democratic. It was a monarchy when I grew 63 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: up there. So it had all those things that could 64 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: have made it very stressful and difficult and hard and 65 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: et cetera. And instead of it was just for such 66 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: I don't even mean freedom to roam and to range 67 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: and to do all sorts of just freedom in my mind, 68 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: in my heart, in my friendships. And with that freedom 69 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: came this most incredible amount of happiness. And of course 70 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: when you're young, you don't really realize that that's what 71 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: it is. You know, afterwards you get asked these questions. 72 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: But when you're young, and when you're a kid, I 73 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: just remember everything being fun. Whether it was playing with 74 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: my friends, you know, in their houses or our house is, 75 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: whether it was playing sardines. You know what that is, 76 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: hide and seek sardines everybody crams into one. That was 77 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: really fun, whether it was you know, in somebody's garden 78 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: and running around playing hide and seek, and especially riding horses. 79 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: That was my sport. I was five years old when 80 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: my mom and my dad literally put me on the 81 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: back of a very large horse, not a pony, not 82 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: a kid's game, and me and my best friend and 83 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: my sister, that's what we did. That was our sport, 84 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 1: not hockey or lacrosse or whatever. And that was really 85 00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: a source of happiness because you were sharing that finness 86 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: with each other. Your mother's were sitting in the corner 87 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: chit chatting and not being helicopter parents, but he knew 88 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: that they were there, so that was nice. The writing 89 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: instructor was this phenomenal Iranian guy who had been in 90 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: the Iranian military, in the cavalry. So he was a 91 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 1: brilliant old military man from the cavalry, and he was 92 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: really compassionate and fantastic. He loved us kids, and we 93 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: were girls, by the way, I remember, this is a 94 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: really girl's being taught how to be happy, how to 95 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: be brave, and he just you know, didn't let us 96 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 1: wimp out if we fell, if we had an accident 97 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: or whatever, you know, make sure he dusted us off. 98 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: But almost by the scruff of your neck, you'd be 99 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: picked up and put back on the horse, and that 100 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 1: developed a bond of love, a bond of courage, a 101 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: bond of connection with another living thing from a very 102 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: early age, and an understanding of how you have to, 103 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 1: you know, react and treat other living things, whether they're 104 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 1: animals or whether it's nature, whether it's people. And it 105 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: was just happiness. It was just a phenomenally happy childhood. 106 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: First of all, I'm so glad that you had a 107 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: wonderful childhood. Do you think that that wonderful beginning good 108 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: to you or gave you something that you were going 109 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: to be able to use in all of the places 110 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: of conflict that you would wind up that all of 111 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,799 Speaker 1: the bloodshed and all of the disparity that you would 112 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: live in for so many years of your life. Do 113 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: you think that it gave you a base to be 114 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: able to do that. I really do think so. I 115 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 1: never really thought about it or dissected it, but I 116 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,359 Speaker 1: do believe in retrospect that that is actually what happened. 117 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: That I grew up with phenomenal parents who gave me 118 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: unconditional love and support, never overly demanding in terms of 119 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: I want you to be a doctor or a banker, 120 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: or this or that we had to be moral, we 121 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:45,799 Speaker 1: had to tell the truth, we had to be kind, 122 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 1: we had to have all those values. But we were 123 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: good enough as we were. So that was very very important. 124 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: And that and the lessons I took from my writing 125 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: instructor and from that period of my childhood, yes, gave 126 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: me that backbone and that structure to carry on without 127 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 1: really being conscious of it in the rest of my life, 128 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: which has been you know, I mean, it's an extreme 129 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: job that I've done, going to war zones, going to famines, 130 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: going to natural disasters, you know, doing all that kind 131 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: of stuff. Most people think you should run away, what 132 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: we journalists like to say, we run towards. But it 133 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: takes a really important lessons and gifts from your childhood, 134 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: because I can tell you that so many of the 135 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: colleagues that I've come across have not been able to 136 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: stand it. The extreme nature, the horror, having to put 137 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: yourself out there all the time, has really crippled a 138 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: lot of people emotionally and has sent them somewhat off 139 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: the deep end. And I was just very fortunate that 140 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: I was able to come back to my family after 141 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: these terrible things, into a happy environment, into a connected 142 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: environment into an environment where I was able to talk, 143 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: I was able to think of something other than being 144 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: on the road and being in the field. I could 145 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: swap that darkness for the light of being away in 146 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: this very happy and I keep using that word because 147 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: we're talking about happiness, happy personal environment, and that was 148 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: very important for me. The other thing that was really 149 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: important was growing up as the product of different ethnic groups, 150 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: different nationalities, different religions. Given that my parents came from 151 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: two different parts of the world, allowed me to accept 152 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: everybody and everything. Everything was normal, nothing was other. So 153 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: I went to all these different places and I just 154 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: felt that they were just like me. You know, I 155 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: never felt that I was in any way different or 156 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: superior or inferior or anything like that. And that really 157 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: really helped me throughout my career because you know, with 158 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 1: this we live now in the extreme version of partisanship 159 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: and divisiveness, and you know, the other is such a 160 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: not just a scary concept because it isn't, but it's 161 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: used to scare people and to drum up fear and 162 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: hatred and loathing. And I had the opposite. I grew 163 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: up with the opposite lessons, and that really did see 164 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: me through my career because I obviously covered all these 165 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: ethnic conflicts and religious conflicts and battles. Yeah, the opposite 166 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: of happiness. Yeah, I mean really the apotheosis of happiness. 167 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: And so I was really happy doing my job. And 168 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: I give you a little anecdote. I was so happy 169 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,959 Speaker 1: being a foreign correspondent. I really thought I'd died and 170 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: gone to heaven when I was made a foreign correspondent. 171 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: And one day one of the key anchors at the time, presenters, 172 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: who was at CNN in Atlanta, she quit to go 173 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: somewhere else. And the president of the network, the most 174 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: phenomenal man, Tom Johnson. At the time, it was two 175 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: and I had just managed to get myself out of 176 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: headquarters and into the field and doing the job that 177 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: I really wanted to do. He called me up and 178 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: he thought he was being incredibly whatever rewarding and kind 179 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: to me and empowering, and he asked me if I 180 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: would come back to Atlanta and take the job of 181 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: this anchor presenter who had just left. Her name was 182 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: Catherine Cryer. Honestly, I burst into tears. I was so upset. 183 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: I didn't know what to do. And I know this 184 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 1: is meant to be a great promotion. But I'm so 185 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 1: happy here and this is what I wanted to do, 186 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 1: and I don't want to come back to be an 187 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: anchor in Atlanta. I don't want to do it. But 188 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: what if I say that, then are you going to 189 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: fire me? Am I going to lose my you know, 190 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: my dream job? And he couldn't have been nicer. It 191 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 1: did take me a couple of days to get back 192 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: to him and tell him that I just couldn't do it. 193 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: A lot of crying went on and soul searching, and 194 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: I really expect him to say, well, thanks, Christianne. Well 195 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: if you can't do it and have to get somebody else, 196 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: and you might as well pack your bag to leave. 197 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: Absolutely the contrary, he just embraced me and he said 198 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: that's great. So I would say, after my childhood, my 199 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: time in the field was the place of maximum happiness, 200 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: and then right now, my son, my child is my 201 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: depository and repository of maximum happiness. What relationship, real or fictionalized, 202 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: defines love? You? You know, I see love and I 203 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: feel love very frequently. It's not just something that's compartmentalized 204 00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: or that I look at one or two people and think, oh, 205 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: that's a great example, or that I have a friendship 206 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: or a relationship with whoever, and think that that's the paradigm. 207 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: I get so much love that I hope I give 208 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: as good as I get. And so it is obvious 209 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: and it's a cliche, but it is absolutely true that 210 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: my son is the human being that I love the most, 211 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: to who I love the most in the world. I 212 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: didn't know whether I wanted to have children when I 213 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: was in the field. I was late to motherhood. I 214 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: was forty two when he was born. I had done 215 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: everything I loved up until then, my job, my friends, 216 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: the danger, the racing around the world, the doing I 217 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: hoped a little bit of good for the world by 218 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: the stories I told. The love that I felt came 219 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: to me from many of the people who I reported on, 220 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: who just were happy to be, you know, invited to 221 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 1: talk and tell their stories to the world. I felt 222 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: real love from people when they were in front of 223 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: my camp. I'm not talking about leaders now, I'm talking 224 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: about people who I would go and engage with on 225 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: on a daily basis, which I did for most of 226 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,559 Speaker 1: my career. That that was what I did. I talked 227 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,959 Speaker 1: to people about what was going on in whatever crazy 228 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: state of affairs in their particular part of the world. 229 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: And I got a huge amount of love from that, 230 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: and I was very happy and satisfied. And I know 231 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: that I could not have done my work and loved 232 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: it as much and put so much into it had 233 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: I been married or had a kid at that time. 234 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: And I consciously delayed that part of my life and 235 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: I didn't know whether I would ever have it, And 236 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: I didn't grow up wanting to be a mother. That 237 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: was not what was in my worldview or my list 238 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: of goals to take off. I didn't think i'd be 239 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: a terribly good mother. I don't know why. I don't 240 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: think I analyzed it much. But then when I had 241 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: my son now nearly twenty two years ago, on a dime, 242 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: it all flipped on a dime. I mean, it changed 243 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: everything in my life, and I am so grateful that 244 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: I have that opportunity to give and to experience that 245 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: kind of luck. But then, you know, you see the 246 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: humbling kind of love that people I don't know, whether 247 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 1: they're nuns, whether they're angels, whether their doctors, whether their 248 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: neighbors helping neighbors in the middle of a terrible ethnic 249 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: cleansing in a war. The kind of love that strangers 250 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: give to each other, the kind of is just humbling 251 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: to behold. The kind of total devotion, the complete strangers 252 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: can give to somebody in need is just an amazing 253 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: thing to behold. And the kind of love that enables 254 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: you to be so brave as to risk your own 255 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: life to, let's say, shelter somebody who's being persecuted and 256 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: has come to you for some kind of help and 257 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: to try to save their lives. That's an amazing thing 258 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: to witness. That must be such an extraordinary thing. I mean, 259 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: I think of it reflected in the world that we're 260 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: living in right now, where so much, particularly in the US, 261 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: neighbor is against neighbor, or whether it's literally or the 262 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: next state or the south of the north, of the east, 263 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: of the west. The idea of being able to recognize 264 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: there's a leveling that humanity will do if you let 265 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: it of kindness, and how love comes out of that. 266 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: So seeing it firsthand, it must have been extraordinary in 267 00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: Sara Jeva, in Iraq, wherever you were observing that, because 268 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: I've seen the opposite as well, you know, and I 269 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: mean Sarajevo, Iraq, but Rwanda and places like that where 270 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: neighbors were turned against each other. And the thing that 271 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: infuriates me many is that it is not the natural 272 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,199 Speaker 1: state of affairs, even in the United States right now, 273 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: even in our country here in the UK, you know, 274 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: where there's so much division along mostly political lines. This 275 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: has all been drummed up by leaders or people who 276 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: call themselves leaders. It's the politics of fear and hate 277 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: and division that have turned people against each other. If 278 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: you can come together in places like Northern Ireland, which 279 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: they did in order to have a peace process, it 280 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: is not perfect, but they were able to do it. 281 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: If you can do it in South Africa when you've had, 282 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: you know, the majority of the population of South Africa, 283 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: you know, oppressed by a minority white supremacy organization under apartheid. 284 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: And if you can come together like they did and 285 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: like they have done, even though it's not perfect and 286 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: it's not resolved, and it's not over and history hasn't 287 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: stopped just because apartheid felt, it means that we can 288 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: all do it, because all do it. In Sarajevo, I 289 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: watched Serb citizens of the city of Sarajevo, who refused 290 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: to flee, refused to listen to Slovna Velosovitch and Radovan 291 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: Carritage and all those fearmongering, hate mongering, you know, ethnic cleansing, 292 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: genocidal maniacs, refused to listen. A very few of them, 293 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: the majority unfortunately did listen. But a few of them 294 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: stayed and sheltered their Muslim neighbors and helped them. And 295 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: it's remarkable. I mean, that's the kind of stuff that 296 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: brings me to tears because it's such a deep love, 297 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: so morals, so ethical and so brave. Do you think 298 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: that that humanity, that that level of humanity. Do you 299 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: think that that because you've you've seen it up close 300 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: a lot can ultimately triumph if that's the right word 301 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: over the lack of morality in in quotes leadership from 302 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: governments who would stoke that division to serve their own desires. Well, look, 303 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: I hope so. I'm an eternal optimist, and I like 304 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: to think that if I have, you know, thirty odd 305 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: years witnessed the worst of the worst of humanity and 306 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: of bad leadership, ship and malign leadership, if I can 307 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: believe that there is light at the end of the 308 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: tunnel and people and people, and left to their own devices, 309 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: they will, you know, show their humanity and their love. 310 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: I mean sitting in Rwanda when they had there, it's 311 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: called courts. They were sort of unofficial I mean courtrooms, 312 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: but not really. They were in the outdoors, and you 313 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: basically had kind of a version of truth and reconciliation 314 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: where the murderers would come and meet with the victims 315 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: and the families of the victims, and they would talk 316 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: about what they did and they would hopefully apologize, and 317 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: then the victims would accept the And I watched that 318 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: when I realized that these are people who started each 319 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: other with their bare hands and with clubs and machetes. 320 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: You know, eight hundred thousand to a million people dead 321 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: in three months, and here they are sitting in this 322 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: you know, local court situation, truth and reconciliation of a 323 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: kind and hugging each other and crying. So that gives 324 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: me hope. Obviously it's possible, It's absolutely possible. But then 325 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: you look at these leaders, even in the democratic world, 326 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: who we elect, who are elected because of the hatred 327 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: and the division and the other thing that they do 328 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: and that they inculcate, and the fear that they inculcated people, 329 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 1: and then I get very down and depressed, and I 330 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: wonder how that's going to stop, if they can other 331 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 1: than we can also unify, I mean, people can and 332 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: will be unified. I do think the pensionum is swinging 333 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: incredibly hard at the moment. I've got to believe that 334 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: balance will be addressed. I feel like historically it does. 335 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: It takes a minute there. I agree that you you 336 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: must have seen that over and over again, which I mean, 337 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: it's part of why it's so fascinating hearing you talk 338 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,919 Speaker 1: about this, because you've made a career of witnessing and 339 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: reporting literally you know, and disseminating the situations. So it 340 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: makes me hopeful even though were all properly in it 341 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: at the moment in both the UK and the US, 342 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: I mean obviously and elsewhere and elsewhere that I agree 343 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: with you on that, and I would say that witnessing, 344 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: even witnessing, is becoming hard her and harder. Bernard R. Levy, 345 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: the French public philosopher, he has just written a book 346 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: and he's done a documentary and he's entitled it The 347 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: Will to See, The Will to See we have to 348 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 1: sum up now, summon up the energy and the courage 349 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: and the will to go out and see and witness 350 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: and report and make sure these things don't go unnoticed. 351 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: And the lack of will is quite profound right now 352 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,360 Speaker 1: in great swaths of society, not just in political leadership, 353 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: but the lack of will to go out there and 354 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: put yourself on the line and do the old fashioned, 355 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: you know, job of being the eyes and ears and 356 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: the feet on the ground so that you can bring 357 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: back these stories. It's very difficult because everybody is now 358 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: sitting in their armchairs siloing in social media, thinking that 359 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: they're living in a real world where they're not there, 360 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: in something that doesn't exist. Twitter is not a place, 361 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: as Dave Chappelle said, you know, it's not a place 362 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: that's exactly it. Well, and it's also interesting that we 363 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: are clever monkey brains have created these constructs that we 364 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 1: then assign reality too and meaning too, but they are constructs. 365 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: They don't exist. I mean, if ever, the Matrix and 366 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: the Wakis look more prophetic in what they created in 367 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: those films that then what we're living in now. You know, 368 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: I can't I can't think of it because it's true. 369 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: We have to be willing to see, and it's very 370 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: easy to not see and to just curate what you 371 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 1: want to see on Instagram, for example, and then an 372 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: algorithm that is also augmenting that exactly. It's fucking terrifying 373 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, because then you go to 374 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 1: the great, fantastic, phenomenal David Attenborough and you see what 375 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,640 Speaker 1: he's had the will to see. Yes, and he's still 376 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: out there at ninety five years old. I don't know 377 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: whether you've seen the Green Planet, all your listeners. I 378 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: hope we'll go and see, because that is joy, that 379 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 1: is love, that is hope, That is phenomenal. He enjoys 380 00:19:47,920 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 1: this world, he really does. What is the quality you 381 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 1: like least about yourself? The inability to recognize my great 382 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: good fortune sometimes not always because I usually always recognize it, 383 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: but sometimes not taking enough time to take a few 384 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: deep breaths when things are not going well, and to 385 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: sort of semi I mean panic is not quite the 386 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: right word, but to go into that stage of fight 387 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: or flight without really just taking a breath and resetting 388 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: and understanding, you know what I have on my plate, 389 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 1: which is so much good fortune and the other thing 390 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: I don't like is that I can be a bit righteous, Minnie, 391 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: I'm afraid to say I can be a little bit righteous. 392 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,160 Speaker 1: What do you get righteous? Bread by everything? But mostly, 393 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:48,679 Speaker 1: mostly I like to think about the big things, you know, 394 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: about genocide or not genocide, you know, the victim versus 395 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: the aggressor the human rights and all of those kinds 396 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: of things, the things that we should get righteous and 397 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: morally angry and there or motivated to do something about. 398 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: But sometimes I can bring all that righteousness into my 399 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,479 Speaker 1: you know, everyday life and opine as if you know, 400 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: I was always right. In fact, I had a great 401 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: friend and colleague from the Washington Post, and he once 402 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 1: told me when we were in Sarah, but he said, 403 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 1: you know, Christianity, you ever write a book, it can 404 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: be titled I was right. And of course, you know, 405 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: he was obviously being funny and sarcasty. I thought this 406 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: was a brilliant title. He was, you know, quietly mocking me. 407 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: But it is a funny anecdote. I do think you 408 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:33,199 Speaker 1: should write I was right. You know, I'm not going to, 409 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: although I'm very often right. You see, you've already got 410 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: your forward to the book. Now can I tell you, 411 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: there's quite a famous story about the producer of Dirty Dancing. 412 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,679 Speaker 1: This writer came up with the title Dirty Dancing, and 413 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: then the producer basically bankrolled the whole movie just based 414 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: on the title alone, because they were like, this is 415 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: the greatest movie ever. That's great. They work backwards from 416 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: the title. So I was right, can begin right here? Yeah, 417 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: I think Dirty Dancing is a little better than I 418 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: was right, But I get it. I understand. Thanks for 419 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 1: the permission, You're so welcome. Can I just ask you 420 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: really quickly when you said not being able to see 421 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 1: what's good or sort of panicking when something bad happens, 422 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: do you ever rather like a centrifuge when something is 423 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: going wrong, suck all these other bad things that might 424 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: be happening into that centrifuge, and so it kind of 425 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: becomes exponentially bigger, and so the thing is never really 426 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: the thing. It's about everything. Yea. So in therapy speak 427 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 1: they call it catastrophizing. Is that what they call it? Yeah? 428 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: They do. You know, you see something and instead of 429 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: immediately figuring out, you know this, we can fix this, 430 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: We've got this, it's like, oh my god, and then 431 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: that's going to happen, and then that's going to happen, 432 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna fall under a taxi and die 433 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: or something like that. Ship That's what I do, Okay, 434 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: So what do you do to not do that? Because 435 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,479 Speaker 1: this is free therapy for me, because you have clearly 436 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: done heard this word. Now, will you please tell me 437 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: what you're supposed to do in those situations? It was time, 438 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: it was a lot of time, and I have to say, 439 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: going out into the real catastrophes, that taught me how 440 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: to differentiate between a catastrophe and catastrophe light. So I 441 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 1: don't operate like this in the field. I am very calm, 442 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 1: very intense, and very together. I do not panic. I 443 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 1: don't lose my cool and I don't even know where 444 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: that came from, maybe from the horse riding. But I'm very, very, 445 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: very super focused. When I'm in the field and danger 446 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: is happening all around me, or when I have to 447 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: do an interview with the world leader and I just 448 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: gotta get it right, I've focused and I'm laser focused. 449 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: It's mostly in my personal life, well everything, that's mostly. 450 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 1: That's the way I remember when you was there are 451 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: fat who hung up on you? Oh, yes, he did. Yes, Yes, 452 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 1: that was an extraordinarily poised conversation. There was no fluster 453 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: at the end of it when he hung up. It 454 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,880 Speaker 1: was kind of fantastic and it was almost the greatest 455 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,919 Speaker 1: third act that heat that he sort of could have 456 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 1: come up with. It was pretty amazing. It was right. 457 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: I remember exactly where it was. It was two thousand 458 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: and two. We were at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, 459 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: and I had a satellite cell phone linked to him 460 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 1: as I was broadcasting live. And it was at a 461 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,959 Speaker 1: time when the then government of Ario Sharon decided to 462 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: go back into the West Bank. They tore down his 463 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: headquarters and it was in response to some Palestinian suicide 464 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: bombings inside Israel. And it was after nine eleven, so 465 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 1: remember the state of affairs then was very very tense, 466 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: and Arafat he was really being pushed into a corner 467 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: and I asked him something like do you take responsibility 468 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: for and I named the suicide bombing location and he 469 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: just went ballistic. But I mean ballistic. I'm here in 470 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 1: a prison, They've got me surrounded. I am General Arafat. 471 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,679 Speaker 1: Do you know who got up? He said to me. 472 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: He literally shut up. He was so angry, and meantime, 473 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: I know the cameras on me, right, so I'm live 474 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: with the camera on me, and I am going read 475 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 1: from the bottom of my feet to the top of 476 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: my head, and I'm thinking the whole world is watching 477 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: me being torn to treads by yasa Arafat on live television. 478 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: And then he hung up, and I'm like, okay, well 479 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: I said, I comment what I said, but something's you know, 480 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 1: that's live television, folks. And then of course all the 481 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: producers lovely. Oh that's great TV. It's great. Just and 482 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,439 Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, but that was me being humiliated. But anyway, 483 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: I got over it. That was yasa afred me. The 484 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: thing is like, I remember how calm he remained in 485 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: the face of that rage, and you do it so acutely. 486 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: In your professional life. You have done that, but it's 487 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 1: really interesting to hear that in your personal life, it's 488 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: like more challenging. It's slightly more challenging. I'm a bit 489 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: better than I was, but yeah, I just forced myself 490 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: to stay cool and to not change my expression too. 491 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 1: My Clinton did it to me as well. In a 492 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: live two way from Sarajevo, I asked him a question 493 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: that got under his skin, and he went he said, 494 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: there have been no constant flipblocks, Madam. He maddamed me 495 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: in front of the world, and then my face just 496 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: went beat red. But I'm not sure that you could 497 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 1: actually recognize that over the satellite. So I had an advantage, right, 498 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: I was thousands of miles away blushing and freaking out, 499 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: but staying cool and not changing my expression. And then 500 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: the funny thing was actually every time I went anywhere 501 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: after that, all these people who would go and interview 502 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: you know, prime ministers and I don't know, army chiefs 503 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: and this and that, madam, they would grieve me with 504 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 1: every time I went in. So it was a bit 505 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: of a joke for a while. I think it's really 506 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: interesting to like to get to experience the best version 507 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 1: of our response to stress and conflict, and you can 508 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: quite literally see you on television or on YouTube or 509 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: whatever doing that thing, but taking it out of that 510 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: place and applying it into our lives. I'm fascinated by 511 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 1: why we can do it in some areas of our lives, 512 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,439 Speaker 1: but it's more challenging in others. And you do it 513 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: in the place that you would think would be more challenging. 514 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: It's a really interesting practice, but it just kind of 515 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: seems to reiterate to me that life is all practice. 516 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: It is. And then you've got to, as one of 517 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: my producers is to say, you've got to know when 518 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 1: to hold them and when to fold them. In other words, 519 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: know who you're dealing with and when you're dealing with. 520 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: So you reacted a certain way at a certain time 521 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: and different ways at different times. You don't want to 522 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: bring all that mega SAINTFROI, you know, that cool under 523 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: fire into your private life. You want to be more vulnerable, 524 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: more open, more reactive, more and more you know more. 525 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: But it's quite a paradigm to existing to be able 526 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: to move from an extraordinary place of conflict in the 527 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 1: world back into home life and children and husband. And yeah, 528 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: there's are amazing poles to navigate. And again I agree 529 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: with you, and so many of my colleagues have not 530 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 1: been able to navigate that and have suffered very, very 531 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: deeply from not being able to navigate. And you know, 532 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: so many people in many different professions obviously find that difficult, 533 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: and it is challenging, and it does take lots of work. 534 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: I would simply say again that I do believe the 535 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: foundation that I was given as a child has helped 536 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,640 Speaker 1: me in every which way, every which way I come 537 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: back from these terrible times in the field or great 538 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: times as well, I mean, and and I reunite with 539 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 1: my family, you know, family, lunches, family dinners, friends, or 540 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: that's what keeps me human and keeps me alive, and 541 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: keeps me loving, keeps me happy, keeps me friendly. Because 542 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: I stay alive, I don't close myself off. You know 543 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: the classic stories, right of I don't know your grandfather's, 544 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: your grandparents or whoever. In World War two. Let's say 545 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 1: my father, my father flew in World War two, and 546 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: he probably never told you, right, he probably didn't talk never, 547 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: They never talked. And I understand it to an extent. 548 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: And I don't talk war stories much, but I do talk. 549 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: And I do. If somebody, one on one, somebody wants 550 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: to know about this, wants to know about that, I'll talk. 551 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: But I do otherwise talk and open myself. And you 552 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: can try to bury it, carry on, make a new life, 553 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: support their families and and try to to forget it. 554 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: But truth is, you can never forget. And there's always 555 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: is PTSD. Did you know in the Second World War 556 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: they called and it was in the First World War 557 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: two they called PTSD l O m F, which was 558 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: lack of moral fiber. That makes me want to cry. 559 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: It's awful. That was the acronym, which is why I 560 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: think men didn't talk about it. Women didn't talk about it. 561 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: That's really tragic. And how about the shell shock and 562 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: all of that, And how about they treated the World 563 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: War One conscientious objectors as cowards and mentally deranged. I mean, 564 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: it's just tragic, tragic. What person, place, or experience most 565 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: altered your life, I would say I have to say 566 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: the Iranian Revolution of nine because that completely was the 567 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: division between my childhood and my adolescence and my adulthood. 568 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: And in a way, overnight, I grew up, and I 569 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: grew a conscience, and I grew a political awareness, and 570 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: I grew an ambition, and I grew maturity, and I 571 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: just went from a very happy, go lucky childhood not 572 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: knowing a huge amount about democracy and dictatorship and and 573 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: all of those kinds of things and freedom and not 574 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: really understanding what they meant in the big picture, to 575 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: only wanting to go and talk about that stuff and 576 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: bear witness and report and tell those kinds of stories 577 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: around the world to people who may not be able 578 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: to go and see for themselves. And that for me 579 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: was the most fundamental turning point in my life. Were 580 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: you living in Iran at the time and did you move? Yes? 581 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: So my education spandy around the UK, and after the 582 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: revolution I went to the US for my university and 583 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: I started CNN in the United States. But I had 584 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: sort of got a an involuntary gap here Mini. I 585 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: had failed to get good enough grades in my what 586 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: you would call high school here a levels to go 587 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: to medical school. Yeah, I feel myself right now or whatever. 588 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: But you know what, I am so pleased because in 589 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: the end, it's one of those failing to accomplish what 590 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: you think you should have done that led me to 591 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: this profession, into this life because it's not just a 592 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: professional it's my life. And so I'm very grateful for that. 593 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: But I spent the whole year of the revolution, so 594 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: from January nine seventy eight to January nineteen seventy nine, 595 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: watching this happen in my homeland and in my neighborhood, 596 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: and suddenly everything I was right was wrong. The people 597 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: who had grown up believing in were now the people 598 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: who I should be condemning. I couldn't leave my house 599 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 1: without their being soldiers and guns aimed at. During martial law, 600 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: you heard the Atoller harmonies imported smuggled in cassette tapes 601 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: put on the loudspeakers from the mosques nearby. I mean 602 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: chilling stuff. It was chilling, and you just didn't know 603 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: where it was going to end up. Well, now we know, right, 604 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: I mean, the Iranian Revolution shaped and changed the whole world. 605 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: Would you say that was the first time that you 606 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: were really aware of the division of ideology, Like there 607 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: is another way of thinking that is being applied in 608 00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: this place that is so familiar that I thought thought 609 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: one way, that's such an interesting way of putting it. 610 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 1: And I would say yes. But I had known obviously, 611 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: because we were living through the Cold War and Iran 612 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: was right in that place where you know, the United 613 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: States liked Iran as an ally because it was, you know, 614 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: faced off against the Communists and this and that. So 615 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: in other words, everything that was happening politically at that time, 616 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: particularly where I was living, was East versus West, Communist 617 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: versus the United States. Communism was everybody grew up in 618 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: my generation anyway, knowing that as the first big ideological issue. 619 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: And then it was the Iranian Revolution, I will say interestingly, 620 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: and I cannot exactly remember. I probably could go back 621 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: and figure it out. I can't remember where there was 622 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 1: just before the Iranian Revolution or just after. But my parents, 623 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,719 Speaker 1: my mother particularly had Palestinian friends in Iran. They were 624 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: Catholic and she was Catholic, and she met them at 625 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: church and they had been refugees, they had been turfed 626 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: out after the forty eight war, and they had found 627 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,959 Speaker 1: the way, their way to various places and ended up 628 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 1: in Iran. He was a pharmacist, and I can't remember 629 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: what she was for rminal people, phenominal people. And from him, 630 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: I remember him taking me on a visit to a 631 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: museum and telling me the story of Palestine, and that 632 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: was possibly my first real conversation about history divides and 633 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: what happens when one side wins one side loses, and 634 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: when there's never justice and when this wound continues to 635 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: be open, and so that was also a very early lesson. 636 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: But then, of course, then I go to Bosnia and 637 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: I witnessed genocide in Europe for the first time since 638 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: the Second World War, So that was right in my face. 639 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I could have read about Anne Frank and 640 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: I read the book, but I didn't see it and 641 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: understand it until I saw it and understood it and 642 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: reported on it and was called to make a judgment. 643 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: And my judgment was that I would not be neutral 644 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: in the face of outrageous violations of humanitarian law. I 645 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: would not be neutral. I would not be an accessory 646 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: to genocide as a journalist. By being neutral, I sisted 647 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: on telling the truth and it made me very unpopular 648 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: in a lot of quarters. I remember it being apparently 649 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: so controversial to take a position, but I didn't have 650 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: enough political acuity to really think about that. But I 651 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: do now, and it's astonishing to me that taking a 652 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: position on genocide that you would have been called partisan 653 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: for that it was. It's absurd now, it is, absolutely 654 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,320 Speaker 1: But remember the victims were Muslims, they were European Muslims, 655 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: and the aggressors were European Christians. It was very, very tough. 656 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: It's a very particular context that you then go out 657 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: into the world to do what you do, and I 658 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: think it's astonishing that you survived that, not just physically 659 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: but mentally. And I know you've said that so many 660 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: people didn't. Well, to bring it back to what you've 661 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 1: been asking me, I survived because of love and happiness 662 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,879 Speaker 1: and joy and knowing how to see it and how 663 00:34:47,920 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: to recognize it and wanting it. What question would you 664 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 1: most like answered? Oh? Many, I'm glad you didn't say. 665 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 1: What question would you look most like to ask? Right now? 666 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 1: I'd like to ask Vladimir Buotin? Why what is your problem? Mate? 667 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: Why are you trying to bully a country that's done 668 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 1: nothing to you in any of it? So? What question 669 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: would I most like answered? Look, you know, I think 670 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,840 Speaker 1: most people would like to know what happens on the 671 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: other side. You know, isn't worth it being good and 672 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: moral and loving and happy and doing all those things? 673 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:31,720 Speaker 1: You know? Here? Ah, that's interesting. Is there a payoff? 674 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 1: I don't really care because I like my life anyway, 675 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 1: so I don't really care if there's a payoff or not. 676 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: I like how you framed that. It's not what happens 677 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: when we die. It's listen, did I really have to 678 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 1: be good in order to get access to heaven? This 679 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: is the Catholic in me. That's the Catholic in me. 680 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: But you know what, I would love to know, honestly, 681 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 1: because I have this image that everybody who's gone before me, 682 00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:00,399 Speaker 1: all my friends, my family, my lovely dog, everybody who's before, 683 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: they're up there having a nice time. You know, they're 684 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,279 Speaker 1: they're also enjoying. And I'd like to go up and 685 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 1: have a really nice time. And I hope that exists. 686 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: I hope that exists. You know, do you think that 687 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: if you knew that was what was going to happen, 688 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 1: do you think you would live your life differently? No? 689 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:22,919 Speaker 1: I wouldn't live it differently. No. No, There's certain things 690 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: I wish I had done, you know, more boldly, and 691 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 1: maybe taken a few more risks here and there on 692 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: more personal issues. But overall, I'm good. I'm good. I've 693 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: got I've got two more questions before you send me 694 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,439 Speaker 1: on my way packing. I would like to know where 695 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 1: the democracy and truth will survive. And I'd like to 696 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: know whether we will ever live on another planet, you know, 697 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 1: in another atmosphere, in another environment. Wow. I wonder if 698 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: democracy will exist on another planet or we can create it. 699 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: I wonder if we did get to another planet. Would 700 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 1: we take all the same constructs of law and society 701 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: with us, or would we make amendments that could continue 702 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: to be amended? So shouldly, I wonder, Well, I hope 703 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,760 Speaker 1: we would perfect something that we started here on Earth, 704 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 1: because we are in that moment. By the way, we're 705 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: not just fantasizing you and I write now democracy is 706 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 1: on the threat by the very nations which perfected it 707 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: or tried to well. That just we were being reminded 708 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: that it is an experiment. It is this experiment. And 709 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: how about truth? What if there's no truth? That's the worst, 710 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 1: That is literally the most terrifying thing. So I would 711 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: like to know will truth survive? And on that happy note, Mini, 712 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: and on that bombshell, thank you so so so much, well, 713 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,760 Speaker 1: thank you for having me. I'm not sure an answer 714 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,840 Speaker 1: to one of my questions has ever cut quite so 715 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: close to the bone as Christiane's answer of what questions 716 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,400 Speaker 1: she would most like answered being whether truth and democracy 717 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 1: will survive. It's been a hard two weeks to watch 718 00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:00,800 Speaker 1: what's happening in our world. And I would like to say, 719 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: and I wish I could say it to Christian right 720 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 1: here and right now, that the strange byproduct of what 721 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: Putin has done is to actually unite the world, which 722 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: I know he didn't intend, but nonetheless, bar quite literally 723 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 1: a couple of countries, that is what he has done, 724 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: and perhaps that's how truth and democracy will survive, because 725 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: we will unite. You can watch Christianne's one hour late 726 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: night public affairs series Amm and Paul on CNN International 727 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,240 Speaker 1: and Aman Paul and Co. On your local PBS station. 728 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: Mini Questions is hosted and written by Me Mini Driver, 729 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:45,800 Speaker 1: supervising producer Aaron Kaufman, Producer Morgan Levoy, Research assistant Marissa Brown. 730 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: Original music Sorry Baby by Mini Driver, Additional music by 731 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:56,760 Speaker 1: Aaron Kaufman, Executive produced by Me Mini Driver. Special thanks 732 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 1: to Jim Nikolay, Will Pearson, Addison No Day, Lisa Castella 733 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:07,959 Speaker 1: and Annicke Oppenheim at w kPr, de La Pescadore, Kate 734 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 1: Driver and Jason Weinberg, and for constantly solicited tech support, 735 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:13,800 Speaker 1: Henry Driver