WEBVTT - Carbon Bros: Abdul El-Sayed on Climate Complexities and Benevolent Masculinity 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:05.480 Hello, and welcome back to Drilled. I'm Amy Westerveldt. This 0:00:05.559 --> 0:00:08.719 week we are bringing you a special follow up episode 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:12.600 from our Carbon Bros. Collaboration with the show Non Toxic. 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:18.840 Daniel Penny's complete interview with Progressive Senate candidate Abdul el Sayet. 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:21.280 El Sayet is running for Senate. 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:24.880 In Michigan and his own pathway to climate and his 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:29.240 take on empathetic masculinity through a breath of fresh air 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:32.040 these days. I hope you enjoy their conversation as much 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:33.519 as I did here it is. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:45.040 Thank you so much for coming on Carbon Bros. It's 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:48.519 a pleasure to have you, and I think I'm one 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:52.559 of many podcasts that you've been appearing on. You've been 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:55.360 doing the rounds, which is good to see. It's a 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:57.520 theme that comes up quite a bit in the first 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:00.639 episode of this mini series me and I have been 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:04.880 working on and given your ad actually for your campaign. 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:09.959 There's a podcast features quite prominently and there will talk 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:13.319 a little bit about that later in our conversation. I 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.160 thought maybe you could start with just like a brief 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:19.920 introduction of who you are, why you're running for Senate 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:20.640 in Michigan. 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.039 Yeah, Daniel, first thank you so much for having me 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:25.520 excited about your projects, because I think you're talking about 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.039 some really important issues. I'm honored to be here. My 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:30.280 name is Abdul I'll say I am running for Senate 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:34.440 in Michigan and frankly as a physician and epidemiologist whose 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.160 work has been about trying to use government to make 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:40.679 life better, easier, and more dignified for people. One of 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:43.080 the things that has become overwhelming, I think for most 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:44.560 of us, is that it just shouldn't be this hard 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:46.480 to get by in the riches's most powerful country in 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:48.639 the world. You shouldn't have to worry about the quality 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:50.600 of air you breathether the water that you drink, or 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:52.240 whether or not you can go see a doctor, or 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:54.640 whether or not you can afford your groceries or walk 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:57.240 in your community without being victimized by a neighbor or 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:00.560 the state itself. All of these things come back to 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:04.680 one central issue, which is that we've allowed corporations and 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:07.320 would be all garchs to dominate too much of our 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:09.440 lives in the ways that they can use their money 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:12.960 and their power to buy politics and buy politicians that 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:15.360 allow them to rig the system for them, and so 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:18.720 we're running a campaign do three very simple things that 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:21.440 are really hard to do, but simple things. Number One, 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:23.679 we want to take money out of politics. We want 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:27.520 to break the system by which corporations and oligarchs are 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.440 trying to rig it. Second, we want to put more 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:32.919 money in people's pockets, and that means standing up to 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:36.000 huge corporations that have rigged the system that force us 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.080 to pay more for the things that we have to 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:40.799 buy from them and leave us being paid less for 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:42.400 the work that we do for them. We want to 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:44.880 make it easier to build and scale small businesses, and 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:47.120 easier to join a former union. And then, finally, in 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.160 the richest, most powerful country in the world, I believe 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:51.600 people should just be guaranteed healthcare, and we can do 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:52.959 that by passing Medicare for All. 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:55.720 You've had a long career of service, which I think 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.160 it's an important kind of segue. You didn't just go 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:02.200 from being a doctor to deciding to be in politics. 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:06.920 This isn't the story of doctor oz God. No. You 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:11.560 know you're someone who's been thinking about how there are 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.640 a lot of unequal outcomes and health for people in 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:19.079 your home state, and what's driving those problems. I thought 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:21.480 maybe we could start our conversation with how you got 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:22.440 started in government? 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:24.040 Yeah, I think it goes back to why became a 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:26.200 doctor in the first place. I went to medical school 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:28.600 and came to realize that the question in medicine is 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.000 really simple, what's wrong and how can I help? And 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:33.800 too often the answer to what's wrong had less to 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:35.680 do with all the physiology I was studying, and a 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:38.520 lot more to do with pathologies in our politics, do 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:40.560 you get to breathe clean air or drink clean water? 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:44.680 Do you get to afford the micronutrients that nourish a 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.840 brain or the macronutrients that nourish a belly? Can you 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.760 see a doctor in the first place without worrying about 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:54.880 falling into medical debt? And when you ask those questions 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:56.840 and you get those answers, you start to realize that 0:03:56.920 --> 0:03:59.160 the work of healing, the work of taking on those 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.480 ten year life expectancy gaps, usually happens outside of a 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.600 clinic or a hospital. And I followed my passion about 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:08.640 solving these problems back out of the clinic and hospital 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.640 into public health. I got to rebuild Detroit's health department 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:13.440 after it had been shut down by the state of 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:16.560 Michigan that forced the city into bankruptcy, rebuilt it around 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:19.040 the well being of kids, to provide kids glasses and 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:22.040 take lead out of schools, and stand up to corporate polluters. 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:25.240 Most recently, I was serving Wayne County, the largest municipality 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:27.800 in the largest municipal health department in the state. We 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:30.400 did things like eliminate medical debt for upwards of three 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:33.080 hundred thousand people, put in narcan in one hundred different 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:37.280 locations to address the opioid overdose crisis, build a state 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:40.479 of the art air quality monitoring system, expand access to 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:43.080 health insurance for small businesses, and that work was really 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:46.200 important to me. If you're curious about what actually causes illness, 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:49.040 then you have to be curious about the political system 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:52.040 that's created it. And I think it will require us 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.240 to do more than just stand up to Trump. We've 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:57.159 got to be fighting for a solution to the set 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:59.560 of problems that Trump exploited in the first place to 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:00.000 come to power. 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:03.239 I was just curious a little bit to hear about 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:06.200 the pollution stuff that you were dealing with. I think 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:09.200 for a lot of people, the climate crisis is this 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:13.839 really abstract idea. It's something as far away, or maybe 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:15.640 it's something that you see on the news in the 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:18.960 form of a disaster. However, I think people are a 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:23.200 lot more motivated by problems of air pollution and water pollution, 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:27.800 which are obviously related to the climate crisis, especially air pollution. 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:30.640 You know, if you have really bad emissions in your 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:33.960 community from like a highway or something, it's going to 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:38.039 increase asthma and you're going to see sick kids or 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:41.600 older people with respiratory problems and heart disease and things 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:41.920 like that. 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:45.120 One of the hard parts of the climate crisis is 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:50.920 that it's like a really challenging problem to clearly connect 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:56.080 cause and effect. And that's because it exists because of 0:05:56.279 --> 0:06:00.880 a whole system of energy production in which any of 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:05.000 our participation is really actually quite small, but exists at 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:08.080 a level that's higher than us, which is the level 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:10.120 of the factory that burns stuff that comes out of 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:13.600 the ground to heat and provide energy for our homes. 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:17.240 And then it happens on a time horizon that's not direct, 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:19.640 in the sense that a lot of what we're experiencing 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:21.560 now is a function of things that happen five to 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:25.040 ten years ago. And then there's a lot of money 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:29.200 being spent to push back on a clear understanding of 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.640 cause and effect. So this is one of the naughtiest 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:34.960 problems to solve, And the problem with that is that 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:38.279 people who want to actually solve the climate crisis too 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:43.080 often fixate on emblems of that crisis that people have 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:46.400 no actual connection to. So like, for a long time, 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:49.720 the emblem was like starving polar bears. I'm not going 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:52.520 to change my whole life around some polar bears. But 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:59.159 the thing we ignore is that every moment that we're 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:06.000 releasing climate gases into the atmosphere, they're being sieved through 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:08.279 the lungs of our children. So you can see not 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:10.760 too far from where I am right now, images of 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:13.760 kids playing in a playground with a smoke stack right 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:16.920 behind them. And we've failed that in large part because 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:18.600 I hate to say it, for a lot of us 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:24.000 who have the privilege to be insulated from those smoke 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:27.400 stacks right like to me. The thing that is so pressing, 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:31.160 both about that smoke stack and about climate change more generally, 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:33.240 is that these are going to have profound impacts on 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:36.240 the lives of people I swore an oath to protect, 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.560 and so it's not hard for me to say, hey, listen, 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:43.040 the climate change part of this is like the chronic, 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:46.400 long term consequence, but the acute part is that you 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:50.200 have to breathe these gases. Your kids have to breeze 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:52.720 these gases, and they're winding them up in the emergency 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:57.280 room because of asthma exacerbations multiple times a week. And frankly, 0:07:57.360 --> 0:07:59.840 if we addressed that problem, the acute problem, we'd be 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:01.280 a resting the chronic problem too. 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:01.880 Yeah. 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.880 I want to talk a little bit about one demographic 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:07.120 in particular that you're trying to reach with your message, 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:12.040 which is men and young men who really swung for 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:15.160 Trump in the twenty twenty four election. I think that 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:20.800 it's been well trodden at this point that they the 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:24.000 narrative that DEM's had about the idea that young people 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:29.960 were becoming increasingly progressive and that all young people felt 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:34.800 like Democrats were their party. It didn't pan out, and 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:37.720 at least among young men. Now there's this big gender 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:42.960 divide between women and men in politics, especially those under thirty. 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:46.080 There's been a lot of soul searching on the part 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:49.679 of DEM's trying to figure out what went wrong. Many 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:53.760 attribute the failure of Kamala Harris's race to an inability 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:55.760 to connect with men or to not go on the 0:08:55.840 --> 0:09:00.320 right podcast. I think that's a bit simplistic. It has 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:02.880 more to do with the values and stories that you're telling, 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:05.199 not just like whether or not you appear on Joe 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:08.800 Rogan that I think going on Joe Rogan certainly doesn't 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:12.120 hurt if you're trying to reach a broad audience. But 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:17.679 I'm curious how you're thinking about winning back this demographic that, 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.640 by all rights, that the Dems should have won, and 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:24.920 how you're trying to communicate with them, like what values 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.760 or aspirations you're trying to speak to, and how you 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:32.400 think the left needs to address this crisis of masculinity. 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:35.400 Yeah. I think there's a couple of things. Number One, 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:40.280 you know that we do play this game sometimes of 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:45.400 people being just too precious about platforms, like how dare 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:48.280 they do? How dare they talk to that person they're like? 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:51.520 Last I checked politics about persuasion, which means you have 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:54.600 to talk to people who don't agree with you. Number Two, 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:57.360 I can't credibly call myself young anymore. I just turned forty, 0:09:57.440 --> 0:09:59.439 so that puts me in some like weird another region 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:01.640 and I've got my own kids now who are definitely young. 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.000 I got a whole feeling about this, But I remember 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:06.600 what it was like to be very young. And let 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:08.880 me just tell you the thing about being young is 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.160 that you want to be bold, you want to have fun, 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:13.760 and you don't really like rules very much. I gotta 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:16.400 tell you I'm still that way. The problem with Democrats 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:19.120 is culturally, let's think about what the stereotype of Democrats 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:23.000 are not very bold, not very fun, and seem to 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:27.080 really like the rules, and so it's not like from 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:28.800 a cultural standpoint, part of me is is like you 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.720 kind of forgot what was transgressive about what it meant 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.520 to be a Democrat where you were willing to fight 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:39.280 against these big, powerful corporations to try and win on 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:41.920 behalf of the little guy. Like, to me, that's pretty bold. 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.160 I'm gonna do something, have some fun with it, let 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:47.200 loose a little bit. And Democrats these days, too often, 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.400 because of the way we do politics, bought off by 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:51.760 big corporations. So you're not gonna be transgressive at all 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:53.319 because you're not gonna stand up to the corporation to 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:56.200 or funding your campaign. And then because you're kind of 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.840 lying to voters that's not very fun. And then from there, 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:01.760 like a lot of what we focus on is, oh, 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:03.840 but they're breaking the rules. What would we do if 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.480 they break all the rules? You're like, Look, the thing 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:08.839 you have to get at is who set the rules 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:10.520 in the first place and who are they working for? 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:12.920 And I just think we have a clear message that 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:15.800 can be bold, fun and willing to take on the 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:18.280 status quo of who wrote the rules in the first place, 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:20.280 and I think that we need to lean into that. 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:22.400 The problem is that the majority of the Democratic Party 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:26.320 cannot because there is nothing transgressive about asking a corporate 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:28.600 pack to write you a check to uphold the status 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:30.480 quote that they wrote. Let's just be clear about that. 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:32.679 And then the final point that I'll say is this, 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:36.160 because we're not willing to do anything structural, we've leaned 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.200 in on this whole social conversation and so we end 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.840 up sounding like a nineties era sociology textbook. And there's 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.960 this trope of like toxic masculinity, And every time you 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.640 hear the word masculinity among people on the left, it's 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:51.920 usually it usually comes with that toxic trope. Now, if 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.640 there's not another option about a non toxic masculinity. Then 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:58.480 at some point you're basically condemning a whole group of people. 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:01.880 And if you don't offer anything, why is it surprising 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:03.720 that they're going to go in a different direction. And 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:06.440 I'm just saying that I want Democrats to be Democrats again. 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:08.400 There's this thing that's happened that like Republicans have gone 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.360 maga and a bunch of Democrats have become like Republican curious. 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:12.760 They're like, ah, we could just do this thing that 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:14.840 Republicans used to do back in the eighties and nineties, 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:17.400 and that's a perfectly great lane. And you're like, no, 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:19.000 but that's not our lane. That's not the thing we're 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:21.160 supposed to be doing. So I'm just saying, let's let's 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:22.079 let democrats be democrap. 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:23.400 You don't need to go back to trying to be 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:26.520 Bill Clinton. I think you know that chapter is closed, 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.240 and yeah, it's time to move forward to your point 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:34.240 of Okay, but Democrats weren't offering young menic compelling vision, 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:37.600 or they were explicitly signaling to them that they weren't 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:41.840 really interested in who they were, their concerns, their grievances, 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:44.000 some of which are real, some of which are have 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:47.720 been genmed up by by Republicans. What is it that 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.680 you're offering them? What is your vision? I mean, obviously, 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.160 as a senator, you're one of many. You alone do 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:57.800 not control the legislative agenda. But what is the vision 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:01.240 that you have for these young because yeah, I think 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:05.760 Mega at least offered this idea that you're being oppressed 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:10.439 by women and the woke mob and the elites, and 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:14.080 we're gonna get you money, right, give you a tax cut. 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:17.160 Somehow they never quite made sense to me how that 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:19.240 money was going to appear. But there are promises of 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:23.559 money and that we're going to make America more traditional 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.079 its values and back when men were in charge, and 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.520 you're going to feel that power and that permission again 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.400 to be who you really are. And obviously, yeah, there 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:35.640 are a lot of lies baked in there, but that's 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.880 a good story and I can understand why a lot 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:42.880 of people fell for it. So what's the story that 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:43.680 you're offering. 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.040 The first one is I'm not going to talk down 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:49.640 to you, right, Like I've been a young man, I 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:51.640 know what it's like to be talked down to and I 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.520 know it doesn't really quite work. So I want to 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:57.440 have an honest conversation. Two, I want to talk about 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:01.880 what masculinity is that doesn't feel shitty. And the Andrew 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:04.520 Tait version of masculinity is one where you're told that 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:06.400 the thing about being masculine is that you could put 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:08.520 down other people. And I come at this, Daniel, as 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.200 a father of daughters, like, I don't want anybody in 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.880 the world thinking that my daughter's success came at the 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:15.840 cost of theirs, because I know that's just not how 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:20.840 the world works. And so let's talk about what masculinity means. 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:23.880 Does it mean that you punch down at people you 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.120 perceive to be weaker than you, or does it mean 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.080 that you are a promoter and protector and empower of 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.560 other people, that you can do that in a way 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.040 where you can live in a society where everybody's got 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:36.280 a great shot at things and you can still enjoy 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.000 doing the things that you know bros enjoy doing, which 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.800 I enjoy doing all the time. I come at this honestly, like, 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.200 I'm not A lot of democrats are like, let's pretend 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:45.720 like we like working out. You're like, if you don't 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:47.240 like working out, don't work out, Like, just be who 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.680 you are number one. But I say this is a 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:53.040 guy who grew up doing the traditional bro things who 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.840 still enjoys doing these things and can demonstrate that, like 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.240 they're not mutually exclusive to having what you do if 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:01.280 you don't my my asking Like I played football in 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.480 high school. I captained my wrestling team and lacrosse team 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.000 and my football team. I played lacrosse in college. I 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:09.000 work out I mountain bike, Like those are like things 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:11.560 that bro code. But let's be clear, some of the 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.320 like gnarliest lifters I've ever seen in the gym are women, 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.440 like including my own wife, who deadlifts one point five 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:19.960 x body weight for reps, which I'm just like, that's incredible. 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:23.480 I saw your bench press three fifteen. Congrats on that. 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:26.640 Thank you. It was interesting, right because it was like 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.400 I hesitated with the idea of doing it in large 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:32.560 part for one reason. Right, there's been this effort to 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:37.160 make my Republicans, to make Democrats look weak, and for 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.600 most of these Republicans, part of me is like, you know, 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:41.720 I'm not even close to what my life PR was like. 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:43.680 I'll never hit my PR again. I was in college 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:45.760 and it was a lot we'll just say a lot 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.080 more than three fifteen. But part of it is also 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:51.240 this idea that if you're going to take them on 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:53.880 that point, the best way is to show, not tell, Right, 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:58.560 Like I challenged Donald Trump or frankly any Republican in 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:02.520 the US Senate on anything, because you guys pretend to 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:05.080 be strong, but it's fickle, and so at some point 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:06.800 like show not tell. So we were like, all right, 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:08.800 we're gonna do this video, and I dare you to 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:10.160 come and call me week, especially Dai to come and 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:11.520 call me a week to my face. I just think 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:15.040 it's important to demonstrate that you don't have to seed 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:18.640 on strength to be willing to be empathic. Right, those 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.200 two things are not It's not a lack of strength 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:23.160 for which you show empathy for other people. I think 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:25.440 it's actually deep strength to be able to bring that. 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:30.360 But like, these are things that oftentimes this conversation we've 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:34.640 had says they code too much as being masculine ergo, 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.120 like these things should be shunned. And I think a 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.600 lot of folks have said no, Like, you can do 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:43.640 things that you enjoy that build strength, that don't come 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.840 at the cost of someone else's power. And I think 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:48.640 that is the thing we need to do well. But 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:50.760 there's something more here which I think is really important 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.880 and I really want to talk through. I think a 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:57.480 lot of the reason that so many young men have 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:01.680 been fed to the likes of an Andrew Tates or 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:06.560 Jordan Peterson is because they feel really profoundly disempowered in 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.080 their lives. And I actually think we need to talk 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.719 about why. And I think it goes back to this 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:16.000 question of corporations and their power in our society. I 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:19.840 don't know a young man who doesn't feel like they've 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:24.159 got a really awkward, if exploitative relationship with one of 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:33.160 the following weed porn, video games, sports betting, and if 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:36.159 you think about all of these industries, they are industries 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:42.240 that exist to prey on a risk reward cycle and 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:47.320 dopamine spikes in people's minds, specifically young men's minds. I 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.880 got a friend of mine. Our whole relationship like existed 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:54.399 around watching sports, right, Like our whole relationship consists of 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:58.760 bringing up names of bygone athletes and just talking about 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:00.320 what they used to do so well, and then pulling 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.040 up their clips on YouTube and watching them like that 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.760 was our whole relationship. And like I know many people 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:06.960 who have relationships with people like that. This friend of 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.679 mine can't watch sports anymore. And the reason why is 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.600 because no matter where you watch your sports, it has 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:17.560 become a long ad for sports betting. And this friend 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:21.080 of mine has problematic gambling, and so he's already almost 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:23.840 gambled away his whole home and his four oh one 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:25.760 K and he's like, look, man, I just can't watch 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:27.760 sports anymore. And I'm like, man, that is so sad, 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:30.399 Like this was a big part of your life, and 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:33.399 it shouldn't be this hard to turn on ESPN and 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:36.560 not be fed an ad for something that could have 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:40.120 you losing your home in a month, right, And this 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:42.440 is where we are. And so you've got corporations who 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.479 basically are working to write the rules so that they 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:51.040 are deregulated so that they can pray on the dopamine 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:54.439 cycles of young men. And we got to talk about that. 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:56.680 And look, I'm not for banning any of these things, 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:58.960 like I think any of these things ought to be 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:01.440 in like one ought to be able to enjoy them 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:04.480 if they choose. But the idea that you're pushing them 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:08.640 into people's faces and you're not taking on the problematic 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:10.640 nature of some of this is a problem I think 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:13.560 about like young men that I mentor in their teens, 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:17.159 and the number of them for whom their for you 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:21.359 page on TikTok or Instagram is basically an advertisement for 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:24.960 some kind of porn. That number zero, Like nobody I 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:27.720 know doesn't have that. Everybody I know is like, here's 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:30.200 my for you page, and it's always right a couple 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:32.840 clicks away from some kind of porn. And I'm just 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:37.640 saying that, like, pornography is a thing that consenting adults 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:40.440 ought to be able to enjoy, but fourteen year olds 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:42.760 and fifteen year olds are not consenting adults. And we 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.200 got to talk about the ways that big tech has 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:48.560 played games around regulation to enable this kind of thing. 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.120 And so part of the problem is if your dopamine 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:54.479 cycles are fried by some combination of all of these things, 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:56.920 and then you feel this empowered in your own life 0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:59.800 because you can't muster the capacity to go and show 0:19:59.880 --> 0:20:03.240 up in your life. And then you're online and somebody 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:05.480 like Jordan Peterson is telling you that it's because of 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.000 women that you're in this situation. You may just be 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.320 liable to believe them. And I just think we got 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:12.880 to have an honest conversation about the way that corporate 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:16.840 power is being wielded against men's neural transmitters in ways 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:19.960 that leave them disempowered and frankly exploited in their lives. 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:24.200