Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is live
Speaker 1: from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York
Speaker 1: and Eva Low in San Francisco.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech Coming Up. Anthropic introduces an updated
Speaker 2: version of its widely available AI model Opus four point seven,
Speaker 2: just a week after its limited release of Mythos fus.
Speaker 3: Eli Muscus, kicking his terrifab plan off into high gear
Speaker 3: even if skepticism grows from the semiconductor industry.
Speaker 2: And TSMC reports a big surge in profit and raises
Speaker 2: its revenue outlook for twenty twenty six, driven by strong
Speaker 2: demand for AI chips.
Speaker 3: There is so much AI news out today, but there's
Speaker 3: still the geopolitical global context that investors are currently trying
Speaker 3: to navigate, and it's a tough one. Stocks as we
Speaker 3: speak at new record highs there we are come closer.
Speaker 3: We're up almost two tens percent and as that one
Speaker 3: hundred and therefore up for a twelfth straight day, the
Speaker 3: longest winning streak since twenty seventeen. But longer term peace
Speaker 3: process is needed. In the Middle East. All remains elevated
Speaker 3: concerns about the Hormons straight, of course, but at the moment,
Speaker 3: tech has been leading the charge, and it continues to
Speaker 3: as we see it on the day higher and then
Speaker 3: it's looking at it on the twelve days higher, we're
Speaker 3: now seeing that extraordinary run fourteen percent higher. Ed more broadly,
Speaker 3: but we've got to really talking as well about Anthropic introducing
Speaker 3: an updated version of its widely available AI model Opus,
Speaker 3: of course, barely a week after its limited release of
Speaker 3: a more advanced offering called Mythos. Now, Bluemberg's Rachel Metz
Speaker 3: joins us for a little bit more, and we want
Speaker 3: to get into a broader market context in a minute.
Speaker 3: But Rachel, for now, there hasn't been much market reaction
Speaker 3: to Opus. But what are you seeing at this current
Speaker 3: moment of really how it's improved four point seven versus
Speaker 3: four point six?
Speaker 4: Sure, I mean it sounds like it's improved at a
Speaker 4: broad range of keep abilities, at least that's what the
Speaker 4: Anthropic has said so far, Particularly at coding and taking
Speaker 4: complicated tasks that people might in the past cut up
Speaker 4: into a few pieces. You might be able to give
Speaker 4: it an entire more complicated task, especially as pertains to
Speaker 4: software engineering. It also sounds like it is better at
Speaker 4: computer vision, which is the task where a computer is
Speaker 4: trying to figure out what is in a picture. It
Speaker 4: can take on much higher resolution images, they say, and
Speaker 4: it can also better extract information from these images, which
Speaker 4: could lead to a whole range of different kinds of applications,
Speaker 4: like analyzing different kinds of data or complicated data, that
Speaker 4: sort of thing.
Speaker 2: I think the point that in Forbig would make is
Speaker 2: that out in the real world everything is not plain text,
Speaker 2: so that vision component was really important. Generally speaking, they
Speaker 2: are at pains to make distinctions between Opus four point
Speaker 2: seven being an updated, improved, existing model from four point
Speaker 2: six and how it's different from Mythos, right. I think
Speaker 2: they even talk about in the blog about how they
Speaker 2: experimented with ways to quote differentially reduced four point seven's
Speaker 2: cyber capabilities. Could you just explain a little bit about
Speaker 2: the relationship between four point seven and Mythos that we've
Speaker 2: all been talking about for like a week now.
Speaker 5: Sure.
Speaker 4: So, Mythos is a model that the company has said
Speaker 4: is so powerful that it doesn't want to generally release it,
Speaker 4: and it is handing it over to a number of
Speaker 4: companies who it wants to be like using it in
Speaker 4: the earlier stages. This is a model that's meant especially
Speaker 4: for spotting cybersecurity vulnerability so that people can then patch them.
Speaker 4: But of course it could also be used for the opposite,
Speaker 4: since if it is as good as they say it
Speaker 4: is at finding those vulnerabilities, So this model is not
Speaker 4: going to do all of those things. It is purposely
Speaker 4: not doing all of those things. For that reason, some
Speaker 4: people not be happy with it, but the company says
Speaker 4: that it is also better at a wide range of
Speaker 4: things than its previous Opus model. So we'll see how
Speaker 4: it is used. For a lot of people. It will
Speaker 4: probably be considered an improvement step up from the past one.
Speaker 3: Maybe not the step change that everyone feels that mythos
Speaker 3: is Rachel, but just give us the context. This is
Speaker 3: a company that we understand. According to Bloomberg reporting, it's
Speaker 3: pushing back on an extraordinary valuation yet more funding because
Speaker 3: the venture community wants to get in on it so much,
Speaker 3: and we are seeing this global roll out a little
Speaker 3: bit more. Aphobic's just so hot right now. It's four
Speaker 3: point seven going to be enough to maintain that momentum.
Speaker 4: Oh, that's a good question. I guess We're going to
Speaker 4: see how people are using it. I mean, I think
Speaker 4: the company is really on a tier right now due
Speaker 4: to a different bunch of different factors. And some of
Speaker 4: that is its technology and the capabilities of that technology.
Speaker 4: Some of it I think is vibes right, but we'll see.
Speaker 4: I mean this is like as we no in AI,
Speaker 4: as in any other market, there isn't usually like one winner,
Speaker 4: So I think that it's still anybody's game, and there
Speaker 4: will probably be a bunch of winners in the end.
Speaker 2: We're showing this chart, which is on the Bloomberg terminal.
Speaker 2: It's data that I think we keep our on. It's
Speaker 2: actually coming from Ramp shows open Ai ahead in terms
Speaker 2: of adoption.
Speaker 5: It's a sort of data set.
Speaker 2: But we remember that in the context of opu's four
Speaker 2: point seven caro and with Methos, the story of Anthropic
Speaker 2: from day one was enterprise. That is a more recent
Speaker 2: pivot for open Ai. Bloomberg's Rachel Metz, you have done
Speaker 2: terrific reporting on the inner workings of Anthropic, what's going
Speaker 2: on with these models.
Speaker 5: Really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Another big story from Bloomberg, Elon Musk is racing ahead
Speaker 2: with his chip making terra fab project. Sources say that
Speaker 2: billionaires the tenants have already reached out to industry supplies,
Speaker 2: including Tokyo Electron, Applied Materials and LAMB, and they're seeking
Speaker 2: price quotes delivery times for an array of chip making gear.
Speaker 2: Let's get out to Bloomberg's Global Tech editor Peter Elstrom.
Speaker 2: This was a big team effort around the world to
Speaker 2: try and work out how real is this with terror
Speaker 2: Fab and we got a lot of detail Peter on
Speaker 2: where they're at and the pressure that Elon Inc. Is
Speaker 2: putting on the supply chain to get moving, give it
Speaker 2: what it wants. What do we need to know?
Speaker 5: Yeah, just to set the stage here.
Speaker 6: When Elon Must first laid out this vision of a
Speaker 6: terrafab a few weeks ago, nobody really knew what to
Speaker 6: make of it. He was talking about this getting into
Speaker 6: chip manufacturing for the very first time, something he's never
Speaker 6: done before. It's a very competitive market, a very difficult market.
Speaker 6: He was talking about building the equivalent of hundreds of
Speaker 6: new fabs that he was going to roll out, and
Speaker 6: he was going to invest. One analyst estimated that it
Speaker 6: would cost something like five trillion to thirteen trillion dollars
Speaker 6: to be able to do what he was actually talking
Speaker 6: about so nobody knew how seriously.
Speaker 5: To take him.
Speaker 6: There were a couple of analysts who who put it
Speaker 6: from the beginning and said, he's not really going to
Speaker 6: go ahead and manufacture chips or even try to manufacture chips.
Speaker 6: He's just trying to get the existing companies to move
Speaker 6: ahead more quickly. But I want to turn the tables
Speaker 6: around a little bit here, Ed, because you were part
Speaker 6: of the people on the byline in this story. It
Speaker 6: sounds like now we need to take them a little
Speaker 6: bit more seriously. What do you make of this? How
Speaker 6: seriously do you think we should take this effort now?
Speaker 2: Well, what I would say is the two data points
Speaker 2: that we had in the story. Three thousand wafers per
Speaker 2: month initially is nothing in the context of current capacity
Speaker 2: for lead edge fab and then what we understand from
Speaker 2: sources carrot, by the way, twenty twenty nine is when
Speaker 2: they start. You know, I don't know how far ahead
Speaker 2: you're looking at your calendar, but I don't even know
Speaker 2: what's happening next week. Twenty twenty nine is quite far away.
Speaker 3: It is. And look, we had Berenberg analyst on yesterday
Speaker 3: who I love that you quoted and for the video
Speaker 3: in the story of really saying like they're not factoring
Speaker 3: in these numbers yet. It's get it two three years
Speaker 3: really for them to understand when ASML gets involved in
Speaker 3: giving the equipment that's going to be necessary to make
Speaker 3: the chips. More broadly, Peter, but just talk about the
Speaker 3: reticence that the rest of the industry has towards this.
Speaker 3: I think one line that really caught my attention at
Speaker 3: court Ed's I know was the SAMSI like, no, thanks,
Speaker 3: we don't particularly want to help in this in the
Speaker 3: way that perhaps you'd like us to.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's important to say that the leader in this
Speaker 6: market right now, the foundry business is TSMC. They're far
Speaker 6: ahead of everybody. We've just got their earnings today. We
Speaker 6: can talk about those a bit too. But Intel and
Speaker 6: Samsung are both trying to get into this foundry business
Speaker 6: because it has been so good for TSMC. They know
Speaker 6: that that business is growing. So if you have somebody
Speaker 6: like Samsung that's already expert in building these kinds of chips,
Speaker 6: they're going to be kind of reluctant to trade some
Speaker 6: of that expertise to somebody like Elon Musk who has
Speaker 6: totally no track record in this area whatsoever. The same
Speaker 6: applies to the chip equipment maker, so Tokyo Electron Applied
Speaker 6: Materials ASML. They need to decide who are we going
Speaker 6: to sell our equipment to. We're in this market right
Speaker 6: now where there's actually a limit to the amount that
Speaker 6: they can provide, and they're limited more by supply than
Speaker 6: actually demand at this point. So are they going to
Speaker 6: sell it to Elon Musk who's never done this before
Speaker 6: for the terror FIB project, or they're going to sell
Speaker 6: it to TSMC and Samsung and Intel who are pretty experienced.
Speaker 1: Yea.
Speaker 2: And when we broke the story in Asia, those names
Speaker 2: that you mentioned jumped pretty significantly in pre market. Some
Speaker 2: of the US suppliers also did. Then fell away on
Speaker 2: Samsung they basically counted his my understanding saying we're going
Speaker 2: to ramp up in Texas. But the story in the market,
Speaker 2: it's one of he is TSMC. Right on the call TSMCEO,
Speaker 2: it was like, this is the reality of building a fab.
Speaker 2: Three years to build it, two years to ramp it.
Speaker 2: But things for TSMC in particular are going well, Peter.
Speaker 2: The data tells us what you said. They are the
Speaker 2: leader and demand is accelerating.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was interesting to see cc way that CEO
Speaker 6: al was asked about terror fab and he said, there
Speaker 6: are no shortcuts. You can't do this faster than what
Speaker 6: the leaders in the industry have been able to.
Speaker 5: Do so far.
Speaker 6: But what TSMC's financial results show us is demand is
Speaker 6: very very strong. Their profit was up fifty eight percent,
Speaker 6: that was well above analyst estimates. They said they boosted
Speaker 6: the revenue growth forecast for the full year to more
Speaker 6: than thirty percent growth before they had had it below
Speaker 6: thirty percent. They also said that they're going to ramp
Speaker 6: up their capital spending. They're going to be at the
Speaker 6: top end of this range where they approach fifty six
Speaker 6: billion dollars, so they're moving very very quickly. They say
Speaker 6: the demand for AI is very very strong at this point.
Speaker 6: There were a couple of notes of caution in there.
Speaker 6: Of course, the Iran war. Nobody knows exactly what that's
Speaker 6: going to do to the global economy to trade. There's
Speaker 6: another issue that's kind of critical for the tech industry
Speaker 6: right now that we've talked about a couple of times,
Speaker 6: the crunch and memory chips, memory ships of course going
Speaker 6: to all sorts of things because the AI hyperscalers are
Speaker 6: building out so quickly right now, they're taking up a
Speaker 6: bunch of that capacity. That's limited the ability of smartphonemakers
Speaker 6: to be able to get supplied. That could taper off
Speaker 6: some of the demand in the future.
Speaker 3: Most ptails from who's been a busy man, editing the
Speaker 3: great story from Ed and the rest of the team,
Speaker 3: and keeping an eye on all things Asia. Let's keep
Speaker 3: an eye on all things broader markets, global investors that
Speaker 3: continuing to navigate precarious environment. We keep talking about it,
Speaker 3: but US stocks have recovered to new record highs has
Speaker 3: been led by the technology sector in the studio with
Speaker 3: us now. Scott Ladner is chief investment officer at Horizon.
Speaker 3: So do you buy in to check Chips even more
Speaker 3: in AMD than Intel A leading on the points perspective,
Speaker 3: on the dage you continue on the hardware AI theme.
Speaker 7: Absolutely, I mean, I think it's really the thing that's
Speaker 7: that's it was driving the market as we came into
Speaker 7: this conflict, and it's going to drive the market as
Speaker 7: we come out of this conflict. And I think the
Speaker 7: reason why we are seeing markets at all time highs
Speaker 7: is because you know, the markets side of this thing
Speaker 7: is going to be short. Were resuring in weeks not months, uh,
Speaker 7: and the tailwinds we had coming into it are just
Speaker 7: going to continue to kind of wash over the markets.
Speaker 5: And that's that's why we said where we are right.
Speaker 2: Now Scott's could be with you in person. I enjoyed
Speaker 2: our conversations of late. So if you look at the
Speaker 2: NATS like one hundred, just as there's the case study
Speaker 2: it's up for a twelve straight day in spite of
Speaker 2: the war in Iran.
Speaker 5: So what is it.
Speaker 2: What's the data point or the thesis that's driving the
Speaker 2: technology sector hire if people are willing to look past
Speaker 2: a major conflict and a huge impact in energy markets.
Speaker 7: I mean, I think it's a couple of things that
Speaker 7: it's It's one, you know, the fact that this is
Speaker 7: sort of the next big thing, And when people talk
Speaker 7: about this as being like the next Internet, I think
Speaker 7: that's wrong. I mean, I think we're talking about this
Speaker 7: in terms of like in terms of scale and importance.
Speaker 5: We're talking about like the electrification of the.
Speaker 7: Country, like you know, the widespread availability like electricity al
Speaker 7: it's that scale of a productivity enhancement that I think
Speaker 7: we're talking about with AI. So so I just think
Speaker 7: people are actually still under sort of appreciating how important
Speaker 7: this thing's going to be. And then as well as
Speaker 7: the market kind of looks forward and kind of sort
Speaker 7: sort of figure out a price AI, like like you know,
Speaker 7: how do you how do you price the AI ins
Speaker 7: of a company? I think that's the thing that we're
Speaker 7: going to figure out next. It's gonna be through the
Speaker 7: margin channel, you know, like you know, ultimately like productivity,
Speaker 7: you know, it should should increase margins And that's and
Speaker 7: that is that is going to be where the rubber is.
Speaker 2: There's no point in exaggerating or hyperbole, but the NASAQ
Speaker 2: one hundred is up for twelve days. It hasn't done
Speaker 2: that since twenty seventeen. So just something clearly is happening underneath.
Speaker 2: Now we have earning season. How much could that derail that?
Speaker 7: Well, I mean, look, it could derail it, or it
Speaker 7: could sort of verify like why we are up for
Speaker 7: twelve day straight. You know, we're not up. We're not
Speaker 7: up twelve day straight in a vacuum though. I mean
Speaker 7: we're up twelve days straight coming off of some pretty
Speaker 7: nasty declines, like as a result of the war point,
Speaker 7: so you know that you know the context for that
Speaker 7: for that stuff matters. But you know, we actually think
Speaker 7: that the bar is is beautable for these tech companies.
Speaker 5: As as we come into this.
Speaker 7: Earning season, I mean, I think people are trying to
Speaker 7: understand like what is the next leg, Like what what's
Speaker 7: the next stage? And I do think like as folks
Speaker 7: start to figure out like the margin channel is really
Speaker 7: a thing that matters, that's going to make AI AAI
Speaker 7: even more important.
Speaker 5: To the business processes.
Speaker 7: And I think it's going to just like drive and
Speaker 7: just drive attention into the sector even higher.
Speaker 3: And I hate to say it, but margin often equates
Speaker 3: to fewer people. What's interesting is we're looking at Opus
Speaker 3: four point seven just getting announced in it it says
Speaker 3: as well, instead of the art score and finance agent evaluation,
Speaker 3: our internal testing showed Opus four point seven to be
Speaker 3: more effective finance analyst than Opus four point six. Now,
Speaker 3: how does that mean you feel about your role, about
Speaker 3: the people that you're hiring, and more broadly, where you
Speaker 3: want to invest in how it's going to help finance.
Speaker 7: I mean, frankly, it makes me kind of excited because
Speaker 7: the thing that we've seen out of AI, and so
Speaker 7: you know, we have some young people are at our company,
Speaker 7: and the thing that has been the most impressive to
Speaker 7: me is how quickly they are adopting sort of figuring
Speaker 7: out and getting up the learning curve. Frankly, I mean
Speaker 7: it's it's really tough for a twenty three year old
Speaker 7: to be very useful in this industry because it just
Speaker 7: you haven't seen very much.
Speaker 5: And they're using these tools to become.
Speaker 7: Much smarter, much faster, to be able to try more
Speaker 7: things and do a lot more of experimentation. And that's
Speaker 7: how you actually build knowledge and get to be a
Speaker 7: real good finance pro. And so I'm actually I'm actually
Speaker 7: kind of buffeted by by by by the use cases
Speaker 7: of this stuff. And it's not going to change the
Speaker 7: way we hired. It's going to change the type of
Speaker 7: people that we hired and how we train them. But
Speaker 7: in terms of you still need bodies to figure some
Speaker 7: of this stuff out.
Speaker 3: Scott briefly, should we buy software at this point?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 7: Probably, but you have to be differentiated. I think I
Speaker 7: don't think you want to buy the ETF. You probly
Speaker 7: want to buy individual stocks.
Speaker 5: I was scrambling.
Speaker 2: I've got the I've got the benchmarks here on Opus
Speaker 2: four point seven, and I was waiting to see if
Speaker 2: Scott said he was worried about his job. Scott aland
Speaker 2: a chief investment officer at Horizon always great value on
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Tech, Thank you very much. A federal jury has
Speaker 2: ruled that Live Nation illegally monopolized the live events industry
Speaker 2: and overcharge fans for tickets to music performances. The landmark
Speaker 2: antitrust trial follows years of regulatory scrutiny of Live nations
Speaker 2: dominance in the live events business, and it now sets
Speaker 2: the stage for a possible breakup of the largest US
Speaker 2: concert promoter and ticket seller. Live Nation says it will
Speaker 2: appeal the verdict.
Speaker 3: Carroct now coming up ed. UK financial institutions will soon
Speaker 3: be getting access to anthropic mythos as concerns about cyberrists
Speaker 3: from the global regulators and enterprise continues to grow. That
Speaker 3: next this of bluebg.
Speaker 8: Tech, UK institutions will.
Speaker 3: Soon get access to anthropics powerful new model mythos on
Speaker 3: preview now. The company's head of EMEA North Pitt White,
Speaker 3: spoke the bluemost Tom McKenzie earlier taking.
Speaker 9: Listen mythos found vulnerabilities in every single operating system and
Speaker 9: every single web browser, and so we wanted to build
Speaker 9: this small cohort first to basically learn from what they
Speaker 9: found in the contained in controlled manner. But you're right,
Speaker 9: our intention is definitely to expand this out in a
Speaker 9: very intentional way.
Speaker 10: Typically it hasn't been expanded to UK financial institutions yet.
Speaker 9: No, but I think that is in the very near term,
Speaker 9: like in the next week's or way in the next week,
Speaker 9: in the next next week, okay.
Speaker 10: And the top UK financial institution.
Speaker 9: Yeah, we've been I mean, as you would expect, the
Speaker 9: engagement that I've had from CEOs in the last week
Speaker 9: in the UK has been significant. Customers firstly want to
Speaker 9: say that they appreciate our very thoughtful approach to the
Speaker 9: way in which we have released mythos, but secondly, of
Speaker 9: course they want to understand the opportunity to be considered
Speaker 9: to gain access to that model in a controlled way,
Speaker 9: and so we've been having a lot of conversations with
Speaker 9: CEOs about the reason why firstly we did project Project
Speaker 9: glass Wing and the way that we thought about that intentionally,
Speaker 9: and then secondly being very clear and to understand exactly
Speaker 9: why they want to get access to mythos and then
Speaker 9: working in partnership with those customers to think of the
Speaker 9: next kind of phase two and three and four.
Speaker 10: Does a system of release from Frontier Labs need to change?
Speaker 10: Some will be looking at this and thinking Anthropic has
Speaker 10: made this decision to limit the release of a model
Speaker 10: that can prove very dangerous. There's the upside, but there's
Speaker 10: also clearly the dangers that you've articulated and that the
Speaker 10: team have articulated. It's come down to decision making it
Speaker 10: Anthropic as to whether or not how to release this
Speaker 10: That has to change, doesn't it.
Speaker 9: I think where I would position it is that this model,
Speaker 9: in particular, we saw a significant leap in cyber and
Speaker 9: as a result of that, we were very concerned about
Speaker 9: a mass release and made the decision not to do that.
Speaker 9: And obviously I've already articulated our kind of approach with
Speaker 9: Project Last Wing. I think labs have to take a
Speaker 9: responsibility for thinking about safeguards, for thinking about safe and
Speaker 9: responsible ais. It gets into the hands of the.
Speaker 2: Enterprise that was in Thropic's head of EMEA North, Pip White.
Speaker 2: Let's dive a little deeper into concerns Andthropics Mythos has
Speaker 2: raised even within the company. Bloomberg cybersecurity reporter Margie Murphy
Speaker 2: has been looking at exactly that in today's Big Take.
Speaker 2: This is an important body of work, timely and pack
Speaker 2: with detail about first the origins of Mythos, why they
Speaker 2: started with the cyber security capability, it's not the only capability.
Speaker 2: Take us inside that report and what we need to know.
Speaker 11: Yeah, so we were really keen to understand how Anthropic
Speaker 11: came to this decision, this really unusual, unprecedented decision to
Speaker 11: not only hold back, you know, what would be the
Speaker 11: latest update to claud and be you know, a great
Speaker 11: revenue spinner, but also open it up to its competitors
Speaker 11: to use.
Speaker 8: And so to do that, we spoke with.
Speaker 11: Nicholas Carlini, who in the cybersecurity world is known as
Speaker 11: being a kind of security researcher genius, and learned that
Speaker 11: he'd actually realized back in during testing a previous model
Speaker 11: that Anthropics Opus could actually figure out ways to potentially
Speaker 11: ex exploit flaws in tons of software. So they were
Speaker 11: kind of aware that there might be some issues with
Speaker 11: cybersecurity with the newer Methos model, so they were keeping
Speaker 11: their eye on that as they were training the model
Speaker 11: and testing, and then around February when they released it
Speaker 11: for internal review, which means that all the Anthropic employees
Speaker 11: are allowed to sort of play around, find glitches feedback.
Speaker 11: Nicholas realized that there was not only could he get
Speaker 11: help from Methos to exploit these floors, Mythos could just
Speaker 11: go and do it completely on its own. So that
Speaker 11: was a step up, and that's when they raised the
Speaker 11: flags to the executive team, and the executive team kind
Speaker 11: of had to sit around and say, how do we
Speaker 11: how do we deal with this? Do you know, can
Speaker 11: we release this? Should we put guardrails in?
Speaker 3: And isn't it interesting that they are implementing more safeguards
Speaker 3: when it comes to Opus four point seven that's just
Speaker 3: been released talking about being able to detect and block
Speaker 3: prohibited or high risk cybersecurity uses. They've learned from IFS
Speaker 3: already on what they are allowing us to have. But
Speaker 3: Margie push us as to whether it is as powerful
Speaker 3: quickly as many make it out to be, because there
Speaker 3: is some quandary.
Speaker 11: Right look, I think a good question is it was
Speaker 11: actually Heather Adkins, who's head of security engineering at Google
Speaker 11: and where they have you know, through Gemini, they have
Speaker 11: a big sleep LM that they release that does the
Speaker 11: same thing.
Speaker 3: It finds bugs.
Speaker 11: It helps companies know if they have vulnerabilities they need
Speaker 11: to fix. But they've put guardrails in place so that
Speaker 11: it can't kind of run world and exploit things. And
Speaker 11: Thropic has come to this decision to release in a
Speaker 11: limited way something that can go and do quite scary
Speaker 11: things so people can find them. So I think, you know,
Speaker 11: what it's found is quite incredible. Other models probably can
Speaker 11: do the same. It's a decision about putting the guardrails
Speaker 11: in place.
Speaker 3: Great context always, and you've got Q and A on
Speaker 3: all of this. Tomorrow you've got to tune into Margie Murphy.
Speaker 3: We appreciate it, and Bloomberg's journalists are going to be
Speaker 3: therefore answering those questions for you on anthropics and mythos.
Speaker 3: I think it's one thirty pm in New York time.
Speaker 3: Check it out on the terminal on the website. Time
Speaker 3: now for talking tech. First up, Tesla's Cybertruck has been
Speaker 3: struggling to drum up consumer interest, but it's getting a
Speaker 3: boost from inside Elon Musk's Empire SpaceX made up about
Speaker 3: eighteen percent of US registrations in the fourth quarter, which
Speaker 3: is over seven thousand of the trucks sold. Plus, SpaceX
Speaker 3: is reportedly lining up tours of its Texas and California
Speaker 3: facilities for prospective anchor investors. According to sources, SpaceX is
Speaker 3: aiming to showcase its operations to big ticket backers like
Speaker 3: sovereign wealth funds, and has already filed confidentially for an
Speaker 3: IPO and an early bet on SpaceX could deliver a
Speaker 3: huge fay of alphabet and new filing shows Google held
Speaker 3: a six point one percent steak in the rocket maker
Speaker 3: at the end of twenty twenty five, but roughly one
Speaker 3: point two two billion dollars if SpaceX hits a two
Speaker 3: trillion valuation ins ipoat welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. Well,
Speaker 3: we're both in New York and it's such a joy
Speaker 3: to have ed here to discuss what has been tech
Speaker 3: on a tear. Let's get back up again on the day.
Speaker 3: We're at a record high. We've been up for twelve
Speaker 3: straight days. That is the longest winning streak for the
Speaker 3: tech Benchmark says twenty seventeen four ten percent. In fact,
Speaker 3: we're sort of managing to be near or at session high.
Speaker 3: It's just coming off of them a little bit right now.
Speaker 2: I guess we'll make the point that's not a vacuum.
Speaker 2: That's where the war in the Middle East. Energy price
Speaker 2: is going crazy. Full conviction on tech.
Speaker 3: I'm extraordinary and conviction because look at t SMC and
Speaker 3: look at these other numbers. We're getting fundamentals from Netflix,
Speaker 3: for example, after the well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Netflix is a first read since walking away
Speaker 2: from Warner Brothers story and its top line growth and
Speaker 2: bottom line growth, and Netflix will probably want to keep
Speaker 2: it to that, right because everyone's really focused on in
Speaker 2: gayagement right now, which prior to them walking away, I
Speaker 2: don't know that the engagement data was that good.
Speaker 3: High Sister summer twenty twenty five to SMC. It's interesting,
Speaker 3: isn't it down? Maybe weakening a bit, but it moved
Speaker 3: ahead of its numbers. Its numbers are stellar. The desire
Speaker 3: to buy chips just shows the bottlenecks in a and
Speaker 3: compute right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and going into earnings prints and TSMC seems to
Speaker 2: report some kind of earnings every week. You know, there's
Speaker 2: a high bar, and I think we have that maintained
Speaker 2: for the rest of earnings. There's a lot going on
Speaker 2: in the world of AI infrastructure. The massive buildout of
Speaker 2: the infrastructure is hitting a political walk just months before
Speaker 2: the midterm elections. Bloomberg's Martniquette joins us Now to share
Speaker 2: more about the high stakes balancing act between industrial progress
Speaker 2: and political survival. I mean, in the last week alone, Mark,
Speaker 2: we've talked about this in the context of energy prices
Speaker 2: in zip codes, where data centers are getting built out
Speaker 2: right for the president, that is an issue amongst the
Speaker 2: elector now going into the midterms. There is a nimbi
Speaker 2: concient iteration. There are all sorts of things about how
Speaker 2: real everyday Americans read the build out in AI instruction,
Speaker 2: whether they care, what are you reporting?
Speaker 12: Well, We've been tracking sort of the political impact of
Speaker 12: the growing opposition to data centers we're seeing at the
Speaker 12: local level, primarily because of rising electricity prices. We saw
Speaker 12: a big impact in the gubernatorial races in Virginia and
Speaker 12: New Jersey last year that'st November, and since that this
Speaker 12: was becoming more of a political liability for politicians if
Speaker 12: they didn't address the rising electricity prices, in particular because
Speaker 12: of data centers and data center demand, and what we
Speaker 12: sought out to explore was the reaction that we've seen
Speaker 12: at the federal and state level to this backlash. By
Speaker 12: having the politicians asked the developers to sort of bring
Speaker 12: or buy their own power, the idea is data center
Speaker 12: developers would build their own on site generation or have
Speaker 12: purchase agreements that account for their energy uses. This could
Speaker 12: be a way to address the concerns that voters have
Speaker 12: about electricity demand from data centers.
Speaker 3: I mean, the news just keeps on coming. Main just
Speaker 3: this week has become the first state they're sort of
Speaker 3: put a moratorium on the build out of AI data centers.
Speaker 3: It's still going to be signed off by the governor,
Speaker 3: but I'm speaking with a business owner in Maine just
Speaker 3: saying that the relief that we just get a pause
Speaker 3: so we can understand what regulation is needed. So does
Speaker 3: it need more for the electorate than just Microsoft paying
Speaker 3: its way for its power?
Speaker 12: I think so our story today sort of explore this issue.
Speaker 12: Does having a project sort of bring its own power
Speaker 12: or buy its own power alleviate any of the concerns
Speaker 12: that residents have about data centers? And the answer seems
Speaker 12: to be no, in the sense that now there's still
Speaker 12: a lot of opposition to data centers because folks don't
Speaker 12: want to live next to them, or they're concerned about
Speaker 12: pollution either noise or emissions from the power sources that
Speaker 12: are being generated to power the data centers, and just
Speaker 12: overall concerns about AI and folks opposed to the advancement
Speaker 12: of artificial intelligence. So we have today sort of explore
Speaker 12: the idea that if the politicians outreach to get data
Speaker 12: centers to bring their own power was going to alleviate
Speaker 12: opposition to data centers. It probably won't, or at least
Speaker 12: it's not going to alleviate all of the opposition.
Speaker 3: Mark M. Katt, great reporting. We urge people to go
Speaker 3: and read that story and look, that's about domestic tensions
Speaker 3: in the US, but it's not just happening here in
Speaker 3: the US. Over in Europe, there are attentions flaring about
Speaker 3: the environmental footprint of AI. In Spain in particular, is
Speaker 3: actually still positioning itself as the AI capital of Europe.
Speaker 3: A ninety billion dollar infrastructure push there newbos Clara and
Speaker 3: and Lazaraga is here with us to detail where you
Speaker 3: went in Spain. You discussed with families with farmers who
Speaker 3: suddenly had this sense of urgency to sell their land
Speaker 3: to aws for example. Go from there, what have you
Speaker 3: learned from being on the ground as to how people
Speaker 3: feel about these data centers?
Speaker 13: Thank you? Hi. So I traveled to air On, I
Speaker 13: spoke to locals, to farmers, and the sense I got is,
Speaker 13: you know, some people are in favor of the data centers,
Speaker 13: but some people are very directly affected because these infrastructure
Speaker 13: needs land, and that means either expropriating people or pushing
Speaker 13: them out of land they've been leasening for generations. So
Speaker 13: for a lot of the locals there is a sense
Speaker 13: that there's very little for them and that most of
Speaker 13: the benefits of this push are going to go elsewhere.
Speaker 2: We're talking about the sort of Zaragotha, the region near Barcelona,
Speaker 2: northeast Spain. And the pitch from the Spanish government and
Speaker 2: from municipalities and from industry is this is the model
Speaker 2: of how it should be to build out data centers.
Speaker 2: What is their pitch for how they think this will
Speaker 2: benefit the region economically and what's the real terms build
Speaker 2: out that's happening on the ground.
Speaker 13: Yeah, so the local government argues that one will become
Speaker 13: the Virginia of Europe. They expect to it will create
Speaker 13: many tens of thousands of jobs, and it's been so
Speaker 13: successful that actually the companies are investing there, such as
Speaker 13: Amazon and Microsoft.
Speaker 14: They are now.
Speaker 13: Pushing this idea that the framework that's in place there
Speaker 13: should be an example for the rest of the of
Speaker 13: the EU national nationwide, the central government is more reluctant.
Speaker 13: There's a different political party and the government in Madrid
Speaker 13: is more keing to regulate and set some limits to
Speaker 13: you know, who gets to plug into the grid and
Speaker 13: who gets to build.
Speaker 3: And there's the tension that pi GA framework basically an
Speaker 3: ability to fast track the ability to start building these
Speaker 3: data centers for Microsoft at AWS with less regulation because
Speaker 3: it's needed for the economy. But you still point out
Speaker 3: in the story that actually maybe it's not that necessary
Speaker 3: for this part of the economy. There's people have got
Speaker 3: pretty wide broad reach of jobs and I'm interested as
Speaker 3: to whether regulation will come in and what more broadly
Speaker 3: You'll see from companies responding to this because they say
Speaker 3: PIGA should be used more broadly and it's necessary.
Speaker 13: Yeah, so regulation is expected at EU level. I believe
Speaker 13: the Commission is set to present a proposal in the
Speaker 13: first quarter of this year, so it should be happening
Speaker 13: in terms of Spain alone. There is a law that
Speaker 13: came out in March that will so will set the
Speaker 13: so the granting of the promits will be tied to
Speaker 13: meeting certain sustainability and efficiency criteria. But those new measures
Speaker 13: will only apply to the future projects, not to the
Speaker 13: already existing ones.
Speaker 2: Bloombo's Clara and Nancy the Aga, who joins us as
Speaker 2: a correspondent from Spain, thank you so much.
Speaker 3: We want to bring you some breaking news on the
Speaker 3: war in Aram. President Trump posting on truth Social saying
Speaker 3: a ten days spar has been agreed to with Lebanon
Speaker 3: and Israel. The markets react optimism there we're still higher
Speaker 3: or we're high throughout the day, ed. But many had
Speaker 3: wanted how this will progress, given Hesbula had well not
Speaker 3: wanted to down their own tools or arms.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 2: And you know that's the market reaction. Inequities is there's
Speaker 2: some reaction elsewhere. But in the post Trump President Trump
Speaker 2: saying that he spoke with both Nes Andahu and the
Speaker 2: leaders of Lebanon directly. We will continue to monitor it
Speaker 2: as well as the market impact. Let's go to private markets.
Speaker 2: Open ai has rolled out it's a new GPT five
Speaker 2: point four cyber model to select users, doubling down on security.
Speaker 2: As competition with anthropic heats up.
Speaker 5: The focus on.
Speaker 2: Cyber comes as trust and governance continue to kind of
Speaker 2: slow down AI adoption in different sectors at scale. So
Speaker 2: what does this next phase of the AIS race mean
Speaker 2: for startups? But it's investors too. Joining us now is
Speaker 2: eric O Breshier, Managing director at Red Point Ventures, a
Speaker 2: backer of open ai at the Series C stage. This
Speaker 2: is really interesting right now. You know, defense technology generally
Speaker 2: is still a main focus of investors like yourself everywhere,
Speaker 2: but the relationship between the technology sector and the arms
Speaker 2: of government, the Pentagon, we're rethinking it a bit. What's
Speaker 2: your latest thinking on that.
Speaker 15: Well, look, I think we've always known that these models
Speaker 15: were going to get increasingly powerful, and we need to
Speaker 15: work together across the private and the public sectors to
Speaker 15: make sure that we keep people safe. Because whatever, you know,
Speaker 15: power we build into models and try to use responsibly.
Speaker 15: There are others in the world, unfortunately, that will use maliciously,
Speaker 15: and so it's important that folks have open dialogue. We're
Speaker 15: constantly sharing and collaborating and figuring out the best way
Speaker 15: to shore up defenses for those who who needn't deserve it,
Speaker 15: to make sure we can always stay one step ahead
Speaker 15: of those who are meaning to do harm.
Speaker 3: It's so fascinating to have you on, in particular because
Speaker 3: of your experience with you know, when you're being purchased
Speaker 3: your own company, but Nami was being purchased by VMware,
Speaker 3: you think about what the experience you had to get help.
Speaker 3: But for me, it's the fact that on the board
Speaker 3: of Linux Foundation since all the way back to twenty sixteen. Look, oh,
Speaker 3: Margie Murphy, our cyber reporter, is really talking about how
Speaker 3: mythos has been a concern for the very underpinning of
Speaker 3: the Internet. Erica, how much are these models giving you
Speaker 3: polls over that foundation or more broadly an opportunity for
Speaker 3: some of the cyber companies that you back.
Speaker 15: Look, I'm a techno optimist, right, and I think that
Speaker 15: AI can do wonders for open source, which, to your point,
Speaker 15: is the underpinnings to the Internet. Using these models can
Speaker 15: help us find vulnerabilities that we didn't know were there.
Speaker 15: It can help them patch vulnerabilities more quickly. So I
Speaker 15: think it's great for the world. And as you mentioned,
Speaker 15: we do have a number of cyber investments, one of
Speaker 15: which is called jet Stream that is focused on AI
Speaker 15: governance and visibility. It'll allow enterprises to understand what's happening
Speaker 15: in their organization, create a dynamic graph of AI activity
Speaker 15: across the system, and put in place controls to secure it.
Speaker 15: And so I think there's a lot of opportunity both
Speaker 15: on the open source side of things to bring AI
Speaker 15: to improve open source as well as a lot in
Speaker 15: private companies to deliver tools to enterprises to get them
Speaker 15: ready for what's to come in as AI continues to proliberate.
Speaker 2: So you're the investor and you have a conversation with
Speaker 2: the portfolio companies and they'll probably go to you, Erica,
Speaker 2: what do you think we should do? And the tension
Speaker 2: is this industry says these should be smaller open source models.
Speaker 2: That is the best way for everyone to work collectively
Speaker 2: in the cybersecurity context. Anthropic and open AI do limited
Speaker 2: access to what are much more powerful models, and they
Speaker 2: argue the limited access is a guardrail in and of itself,
Speaker 2: but it means that for researchers, bug bounty players, etc.
Speaker 2: It's close to them, what is the right pathway forward?
Speaker 15: Look, I think we need to be responsible with the
Speaker 15: power of these new models coming online. And it reminds
Speaker 15: me of like responsible disclosure in cyber right when you
Speaker 15: find as zero day, you have to report it responsibly
Speaker 15: before you share your work with the world. I see
Speaker 15: a very similar pattern here, and I'm actually very supportive
Speaker 15: of what the model vendors are doing and trying to
Speaker 15: bring together the right folks. The Linux Foundation included in
Speaker 15: Project glass Wing to make sure that people get an
Speaker 15: opportunity to see what these models can do, to put
Speaker 15: them to work, and to make sure that they're building
Speaker 15: up tools that can defend against them if they're used
Speaker 15: for malicious purposes. Again, I think you need a lot
Speaker 15: of different perspectives, organizations, and quite frankly, just brains around
Speaker 15: this problem to make sure that we're building the right
Speaker 15: controls to make sure that we can get all the
Speaker 15: value out of AI without sacrificing our defenses.
Speaker 3: Value out of AI at this moment, Erica, how are
Speaker 3: the bets of ules, are the portfolio companies managing to
Speaker 3: get the value? How are we seeing this being adopted
Speaker 3: within teams? Embraced and push forward. Yeah.
Speaker 15: Look, I think the best companies are adopting AI across
Speaker 15: the stack. Ramp has had a number of fantastic stick posts.
Speaker 15: They're completely changing their entire culture by enabling their company
Speaker 15: to build with AI across the stack. We have companies
Speaker 15: like Railway, for example, that run all of their go
Speaker 15: to market with AI. So it's not just about coding,
Speaker 15: where of course we're seeing incredible acceleration in products, shipping evolution,
Speaker 15: you know, new feature development, et cetera, but also the
Speaker 15: go to market teams are building their own tooling.
Speaker 4: Now with AI.
Speaker 15: I mean I'm building my own tooling for for my
Speaker 15: work and venture right And so I think the companies
Speaker 15: that get ahead are the ones who are going to
Speaker 15: drive AI usage throughout their organization across finance, HR, you know,
Speaker 15: support go to market and not only code, which is
Speaker 15: obviously a huge opportunity in and of itself.
Speaker 3: Maybe have some bandwidth for some fun marketing. As we've
Speaker 3: all been liking the Logora new ad of late mister
Speaker 3: Jude law Erica, Russia, we thank you very much, a Redpoint.
Speaker 3: Thank you. Great to have you coming up the CEO
Speaker 3: of Slash Joints to discuss his startups newly minted unicorn status,
Speaker 3: so it aims to take on fintech rivals like Ram.
Speaker 3: We're just talking about them, like gregs. It's pretty big
Speaker 3: tech Slash Financial it's just raised one hundred million dollars
Speaker 3: from backs including Ribert Capital coasal A Ventures. The startup
Speaker 3: offers banking financial services along with features tailored to specific industries,
Speaker 3: medical spots, construction firms. Sneakers is where it started. Slash's
Speaker 3: co found or CEO of Victor Cadenas, joins us. Now,
Speaker 3: I wish we could just talk about all birds with
Speaker 3: you and it's resurrection into an AI company, Victor, But
Speaker 3: I'm interested as to what the one hundred million helps
Speaker 3: you do. You're going global, where are you leaning into?
Speaker 5: Absolutely?
Speaker 14: First of all, Caroline, thank you so much for having
Speaker 14: me on as a long time watcher of the show.
Speaker 14: It's such a privilege to get to participate for the
Speaker 14: first time. Thanks well to Sincly. There's two things this
Speaker 14: funding enables us to do. Serve more markets and serve
Speaker 14: more geographies. Quite core to the Slash thesis and strategy,
Speaker 14: as you mentioned, is this idea that business owners deserve
Speaker 14: banking products hyper tailor to the needs of their specific industries.
Speaker 14: Slash right now is valuable to businesses in over a
Speaker 14: dozen industries, but we want Slash to be a household name.
Speaker 5: We want to bring it to as many.
Speaker 14: Possible entrepreneurs in America and beyond. Right now, we're living
Speaker 14: in a super interesting time in fintech history where for
Speaker 14: the first time ever, it's very easy and possible for
Speaker 14: an American fintic company like Slash to serve businesses all
Speaker 14: over the world. Stable coins are this really enabling force
Speaker 14: that allow us to have a default global product, and
Speaker 14: we want Slash to reach business owners worldwide, and that's
Speaker 14: what this funding is going to go towards.
Speaker 5: So you're raising one hundred million dollars.
Speaker 2: But I think you guys would be at pains to
Speaker 2: say we're a really small team or a lean team,
Speaker 2: is how you'd put it. You're at three hundred million
Speaker 2: dollar arr right, which is something to note. If that's
Speaker 2: the case, where does that one hundred million go, Like,
Speaker 2: why do you need to deploy?
Speaker 14: Absolutely? I think you're absolutely right. We have a very
Speaker 14: lean team. Our company has been profitable since May of
Speaker 14: last year. But in the age of AI, because it's
Speaker 14: so easy for anyone to build software. Brand is more
Speaker 14: important than ever, and banking is very much a relationships game.
Speaker 5: There's three reasons customers come to Slash.
Speaker 14: The first of all is we have a phenomenal product,
Speaker 14: The second of all is we offer phenomenal rewards, And
Speaker 14: the third is we've brought the community bank model to fintech.
Speaker 14: All else being equal, people like to bank and spend
Speaker 14: with the institution they have the best relationship with. So
Speaker 14: if we want to reach and deliver an amazing level
Speaker 14: of support to business owners all over America and all
Speaker 14: over the world, that's going to take a lot of
Speaker 14: people and a lot of investing in our brand.
Speaker 3: Victim, just go back to how lean the actual startup is.
Speaker 3: I think you've only got sixty eight or thereabouts employees
Speaker 3: before you start adding more to this go to market
Speaker 3: and marketing strategy. How much you enabled by AI, how
Speaker 3: much you thinking about keeping your cost base low.
Speaker 14: Entirely, this business, the way that we've run it would
Speaker 14: not be possible if it were not for AI. I
Speaker 14: think that's the thing that ribid that costal, that goodwater.
Speaker 14: All the investors that invest in this past round found
Speaker 14: most attractive web aut Slash it's this idea that it's
Speaker 14: over fifty percent of the engineering hours at our company
Speaker 14: are spent actually building internal software to help us be
Speaker 14: much more efficient. So a lot of these tasks that
Speaker 14: the legacy banks or FinTechs that came before us have
Speaker 14: thrown copious headcount acts are just agents automated away at SLASH.
Speaker 14: Everything from parsing documents when somebody is applying for an application,
Speaker 14: or processing disputes, or you know, responding to request information
Speaker 14: from a bank partner. These all these back end tasks
Speaker 14: or agents automated away at SLASH.
Speaker 2: So Victory, you know, kind of as your elevator pitch
Speaker 2: for Slash. Who are the incumbents that you're trying to
Speaker 2: displace in helping us understand like if you were a
Speaker 2: customer Slash how it would work what it is.
Speaker 5: You offer absolutely well.
Speaker 14: And I think a very underappreciated fact is that fintech,
Speaker 14: particularly B to B fintech in the US is extremely
Speaker 14: under penetrated. Less than five percent of businesses in America
Speaker 14: banker spend with a fintech. The vast majority of them
Speaker 14: still use a legacy bank. And the reason our offer
Speaker 14: is resonating so much is quite simple. We live in
Speaker 14: an age where machines can think, where cars can drive themselves.
Speaker 14: But as I mentioned, the vast majority of entrepreneurs are
Speaker 14: still banking with an institution that has an interface, but
Speaker 14: it was last updated in the year two thousand and three.
Speaker 14: Quarter to the Slash thesis is this idea that your
Speaker 14: bank account can do much more for you. It can
Speaker 14: be the place where you invoice your customers, where you
Speaker 14: reimburse your employees for out of pocket expenses, where you
Speaker 14: get insights around how to cut waste, le spend, and
Speaker 14: much much more. We have ambitions to become the most
Speaker 14: popular business banking platform in America, and we're going to
Speaker 14: do it by building a very powerful platform that puts
Speaker 14: a lot of money back on the pockets of our
Speaker 14: customers and gives them back a ton of time.
Speaker 5: Big to cut in.
Speaker 2: Yes, Ceo Slash, it's great to have you on Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. We're on IPO Watch this week.
Speaker 2: It's not the reason I'm in New York, but we're
Speaker 2: here for it. Shares of Madison Air indicated to open
Speaker 2: thirty thirty one dollars a share, the IPO pricing at
Speaker 2: twenty seven dollars share. We're waiting for trading to begin.
Speaker 2: It's a ventilation and filtration systems company, but it's seeing
Speaker 2: increasing demand for its services amid the boom in data
Speaker 2: center build out set to have. Believe it or not,
Speaker 2: CARO the biggest US IPO of the year so far,
Speaker 2: being fast, risky, brilliant.
Speaker 3: But one on CEO Jill Wyant. I mean she's coming
Speaker 3: on the network later really to talk about from lead
Speaker 3: up the US industrial focus and look, all of these
Speaker 3: companies suddenly de fact are becoming AI companies because there's
Speaker 3: sheer scale of need for infrastructure right now.
Speaker 2: So here's a data point view that kind of explains
Speaker 2: where we are at in the world of AI. This
Speaker 2: will be the biggest US industrial IPO for almost three decades.
Speaker 2: It shows you like the transformation that these kind of
Speaker 2: legacy industries have had. HVAC being one example, but yeah,
Speaker 2: we'll keep an eye on it. Indicated to open thirty
Speaker 2: thirty one dollars a share IPO at twenty seven. There's
Speaker 2: a few others too.
Speaker 3: This week, Ed making HVAC sexy again. That's why he
Speaker 3: does that, does it for this edition of Blomberg Tech,
Speaker 3: And I'm so pleased to go be here for another day.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, We've got a lot going on. It is a
Speaker 2: very busy week. Lots of news in the show, recap
Speaker 2: it on the podcast. You know where to find it.
Speaker 2: It's on iHeart, Spotify and Apple, and it's on the
Speaker 2: Bloomberg terminal and on the Bloomberg platforms. From New York
Speaker 2: City this week, This is Bloomberg Tech