WEBVTT - Study Shows Covid Infection May Cause Changes in the Brain

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<v Speaker 1>It's Tuesday, March eight. I'm Oscar Emiras from the Daily

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<v Speaker 1>Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America.

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<v Speaker 1>A new study looking at brain scans of people before

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<v Speaker 1>and after contracting COVID shows that they had more loss

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<v Speaker 1>of gray matter and tissue damage than those who did

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<v Speaker 1>not get infected. Notably, the study looked at those that

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<v Speaker 1>were older and had more mild infections, meaning they did

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<v Speaker 1>not have to go to the hospital. The shrinkage and

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<v Speaker 1>damage was primarily an areas associated with smell. Pambelic, health

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<v Speaker 1>and science writer at The New York Times joins us

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<v Speaker 1>for more. Thanks for joining us, Pam, So I'm happy

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<v Speaker 1>to join you. Well, I wanted to talk about an

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<v Speaker 1>interesting thing that is COVID related. And this is not

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<v Speaker 1>to raise any alarms. This is all uh interesting, an

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<v Speaker 1>interesting study, but there's a lot more questions. Really they

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<v Speaker 1>needs to be answered for this. But we're looking at

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<v Speaker 1>brain scans of people before and after COVID infection and

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<v Speaker 1>some of them are showing more loss of gray matter

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<v Speaker 1>and tissue damage than in those that didn't have COVID,

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<v Speaker 1>and particularly in the area that is around around smell,

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<v Speaker 1>which kind of tracks with you know a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people that lost their sense of smell and taste when

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<v Speaker 1>they got infected. But Pam, tell us what we're seeing

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<v Speaker 1>in this study, Yeah, exactly. I think you characterized it

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<v Speaker 1>exactly right. It's a really interesting study because it appears

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<v Speaker 1>to be the first time that researchers have had access

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<v Speaker 1>to brain scans of people before they got COVID and

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<v Speaker 1>then about three years later they had scans of these

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<v Speaker 1>same people and some of those people had COVID in between.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is medical information that comes from a huge

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<v Speaker 1>sort of treasure trove of medical records in the United Kingdom.

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<v Speaker 1>It's called the UK Biobank, and they have medical records

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<v Speaker 1>of lots and lots of people. And what they did

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<v Speaker 1>is they focused on almost eight hundred people and and

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<v Speaker 1>they were able to see about four hundred of them

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<v Speaker 1>had got COVID, and so they had these before scans

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<v Speaker 1>of their brain and then they had an after scan

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<v Speaker 1>about four and a half months after they had their

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<v Speaker 1>COVID infection. So they were looking at this to see

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<v Speaker 1>did anything change in their brain, And what they found

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<v Speaker 1>is that the people who had COVID lost more gray

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<v Speaker 1>matter than the people who didn't so normal aging, we

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<v Speaker 1>naturally lose a little bit of gray matter in our

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<v Speaker 1>brains every year, tiny percentage, and the patients who had

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<v Speaker 1>COVID ended up losing significantly more sad up to more.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not huge, but in terms of sort of brain volume,

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<v Speaker 1>it's significant. And as you said, most of the areas

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<v Speaker 1>where they noticed this change, we're in brain areas related

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<v Speaker 1>to sense of smell, which kind of makes sense. But

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<v Speaker 1>because it's the brain and there's so much overlap in

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<v Speaker 1>the brain and almost everything in the brain has like

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<v Speaker 1>multiple functions, some of these areas also have other brain

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<v Speaker 1>functions related to memory and things like that, so it

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<v Speaker 1>raises questions about, like, what does this mean. The typical

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<v Speaker 1>brain loss was about point two to point three percent annually,

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<v Speaker 1>and yeah, these people went from point to to almost

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<v Speaker 1>two percent, So that is a pretty big jump, right there.

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<v Speaker 1>Some things to note though, from this study, they were

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<v Speaker 1>older people, so these are people fifty one to eighty

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<v Speaker 1>one that they were looking at. And also most of

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<v Speaker 1>these people that were infected had milder symptoms, so they

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, we don't know what the correlation were

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<v Speaker 1>between the people that actually did lose their sense of

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<v Speaker 1>smell or people that had long COVID, which attracts with

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<v Speaker 1>some of these other neurological things like you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>brain fog and memory loss and just kind of hard

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<v Speaker 1>to normally function exactly. One of the big unknowns. There

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<v Speaker 1>are many unknowns with this study. One of the big

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<v Speaker 1>unknowns is what was health like for these folks. Did

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<v Speaker 1>they have symptoms, did they lose their sense of smell?

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<v Speaker 1>Do they have long COVID? We really don't know about.

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<v Speaker 1>The research did not have access to that kind of information,

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<v Speaker 1>so they're sort of looking in a vacuum. What they're

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<v Speaker 1>what they're finding is they did see brain changes, but

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<v Speaker 1>they cannot correlate them to people's symptoms. So yes, and

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<v Speaker 1>they were older people, so this can not say really

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<v Speaker 1>anything about anybody who's under fifty, and it's just sort

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<v Speaker 1>of raising this question. I think the most definitive thing

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<v Speaker 1>that you can say is that it is one of

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<v Speaker 1>the strongest studies showing that something does actually change in

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<v Speaker 1>your brain when you have COVID. We don't really know why.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a few def theories about what could be causing this,

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<v Speaker 1>but it appears pretty good evidence here anyway that's having

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<v Speaker 1>COVID can produce some kind of change in your brain.

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<v Speaker 1>The other big unknown here is how long does this last?

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<v Speaker 1>Because these folks were scanned only once after their COVID infection,

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<v Speaker 1>about four and a half mon after on average, but

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<v Speaker 1>a year out is their brain will look different. We

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<v Speaker 1>don't know, yah, and one of the big culprits. And

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<v Speaker 1>they suspect that one of the big culprits is one

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<v Speaker 1>of the big culprits that are you know, a key

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<v Speaker 1>and a lot of the problems when people get covered inflammation,

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<v Speaker 1>So they think inflammation plays a big part in all

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<v Speaker 1>of this. Yes, that's definitely one theory. Another theory that

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<v Speaker 1>I thought was kind of interesting is that it's possible

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<v Speaker 1>that if you're losing yourself to smell, the information, the

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<v Speaker 1>sort of sensory information that being able to smell something

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<v Speaker 1>carries to your brain is kind of interrupted, and so

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<v Speaker 1>it's possible that what they call sensory deprivation is sort

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<v Speaker 1>of causing some areas of your brain to be less

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<v Speaker 1>active and and maybe you know, lose some of their

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<v Speaker 1>some of their volume. So that's kind of interesting. The

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<v Speaker 1>one area that I think most but not everybody in

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<v Speaker 1>the field is sort of has an sense it's about

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<v Speaker 1>is that it doesn't appear that COVID is a virus

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<v Speaker 1>that invade the brain directly all that often it might

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<v Speaker 1>be able to there's some evidence that can, but that

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't seem to be the way this virus really works.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're probably talking about an effect that is kind

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<v Speaker 1>of secondary to your body's response to the infection. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>some interesting stuff things for scientists to build off of

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<v Speaker 1>these findings and learn a little bit more, so hopefully

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<v Speaker 1>we can get there. Pambelic, health and science writer at

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<v Speaker 1>the New York Times, thank you very much for joining us.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much. I'm Oscar Emiras and this has been

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<v Speaker 1>reopening America. Don't forget that. For today's big news stories,

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<v Speaker 1>you can check me out in the Daily Dive podcast

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<v Speaker 1>every Monday to Friday. So follow us on I Heart

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