WEBVTT - Selects: What were the Freedom Schools?

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, everybody, happy Saturday. I hope you have your cereal

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<v Speaker 1>and your bowl and you've watched some Saturday morning cartoons

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<v Speaker 1>and you are in your comfy's chair. Because the select

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<v Speaker 1>that I'm picking for you is a great history episode

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<v Speaker 1>from October twenty nineteen. But what were the Freedom Schools?

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<v Speaker 1>It's a great story that needed to be told by us,

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<v Speaker 1>and so we did so, so I hope you enjoy it.

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<v Speaker 1>We love our episodes on the civil rights era, and

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<v Speaker 1>this is a real good one, so check it out. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>What were the Freedom Schools? Welcome to Stuff you Should Know,

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<v Speaker 1>a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and

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<v Speaker 2>there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry over there.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't know if I said it or not,

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<v Speaker 2>but I'm Josh Clark and this is stuff you should know,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm pretty excited about this one. Freedom Freedom Schools.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we would be the best singing duo ever. If

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<v Speaker 1>that's how it worked, I would just go big and

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<v Speaker 1>you would just read it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly. Is that? What I'm doing is lou reading

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<v Speaker 2>I don't even know my own heritage sort of speak singing,

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, you know, yeah, that's what lou Reid did. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe go to the refrigerator, baby.

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<v Speaker 1>Remember the great song about the fridge.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, give me one of those frozen snicker bars. You're

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<v Speaker 2>not the ice cream kind, the actual snicker bar I

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<v Speaker 2>put into the freezer. Bring it over here, baby, that song.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the one, and Nico would go, I am placing

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<v Speaker 1>it in the freezer.

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<v Speaker 2>Was she German? Uh?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she had to be German. Was she German? I

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<v Speaker 1>mean she was if not German, Austrian or something.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm just saying I didn't even know. I knew

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<v Speaker 2>nothing about her except Nico sat in with the velvet

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<v Speaker 2>underground for a.

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<v Speaker 1>While than my amazing vocal talents.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was good. That's what clued me to the

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<v Speaker 2>idea that she was as a gemins.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a movie about her later years that I want

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<v Speaker 1>to see that came out this year or something.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's called Taking Liam Neeson played it. That's right, So, Chuck,

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<v Speaker 2>we're talking about freedom schools, as we already said, and

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<v Speaker 2>then we got silly. Now we're getting back to it.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's right, because this is not a silly topic. No,

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<v Speaker 1>but and it has a CoA at the beginning. Shall

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<v Speaker 1>we talk about that, Yeah, I think we should. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is about the Freedom Schools, which, as you

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<v Speaker 1>will very soon find out, we're in Mississippi during the

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<v Speaker 1>Civil rights movement.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, like in probably the most dangerous place in

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<v Speaker 2>the country. Yeah, during the most dangerous point in the

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<v Speaker 2>civil rights movement. That's where this story takes place.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. And freedom schools were great, and they were

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<v Speaker 1>a great thing, and we're happy to be talking about them.

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<v Speaker 1>But and a lot of the quotes and a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of the curriculum of the Freedom schools themselves, they use

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<v Speaker 1>the word negro, and it's obviously not a word that

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<v Speaker 1>people use anymore, but some of the curriculum class titles

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<v Speaker 1>feature that word. And so just letting everyone know that

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<v Speaker 1>that's coming, right, And we're not going to say we're

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<v Speaker 1>just going to read their curriculums and their books as

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<v Speaker 1>it existed back then.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think this heads up. Yeah, we were just

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<v Speaker 2>kind of sticking to the vernacular of the times being

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<v Speaker 2>used in context.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, within reason, of course.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure. So, so this takes place in the summer of

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen sixty four. But I want to go back a

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<v Speaker 2>little further than that to nineteen fifty four with the

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<v Speaker 2>the groundbreaking sea changing Board Brown Versus Board of Education ruling,

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<v Speaker 2>where the Supreme Court said, you know that separate but

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<v Speaker 2>equal thing that we said back in eighteen ninety six

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<v Speaker 2>was constitutional. Yeah, that's not true. Segregation is not constitutional.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not legal anymore. Everybody needs to integrate schools at least,

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<v Speaker 2>but they failed to say and do it by nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>sixty four or nineteen sixty or next year. They just said,

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<v Speaker 2>I think something like in a like a deliberate and

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<v Speaker 2>speedy manner or something like that. And so Mississippi said, oh, well,

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<v Speaker 2>you didn't tell us when we had.

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<v Speaker 1>To do it by about never.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let me just dig my heel in here and

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<v Speaker 2>the other one in here, and we're just going to

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<v Speaker 2>keep our schools segregated. And not only segregated. Mississippi had

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<v Speaker 2>some of the poorest excuses for schools for African American

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<v Speaker 2>students in the country. The state average for Mississippi, I

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<v Speaker 2>think in nineteen sixty was that they spent four times

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<v Speaker 2>more on schools for white children than they did on

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<v Speaker 2>schools for black children. That was just the state average,

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<v Speaker 2>and sometimes it was way worse.

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<v Speaker 1>You're talking about budgets, spinning budgets.

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<v Speaker 2>In Tunica, they spent one hundred and seventy two dollars

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<v Speaker 2>and eighty cents per white pupil on average in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>sixty two.

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<v Speaker 1>That's per year that was in that year school year one.

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<v Speaker 2>Hundred and seven to eighty. They spent five dollars or

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<v Speaker 2>ninety nine cents per black people.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that's just kind of how it was like.

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<v Speaker 2>You went to school in sharecropper schools or what they

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<v Speaker 2>were called. If you were a black kid and you

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<v Speaker 2>were you got a terrible education. By comparison white kids.

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<v Speaker 2>Schools usually ran for about six months out of the year. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>if you were an African American kid in Mississippi, your

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<v Speaker 2>school might run three if if it was even open

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<v Speaker 2>that year. The rest of the time, you were expected

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<v Speaker 2>to be out in the field working and just knowing

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<v Speaker 2>your place basically.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And you know, as you'll see throughout this podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>those sharecropper schools not only did they fail them fundamentally

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<v Speaker 1>on things like literacy and maths and things like that,

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<v Speaker 1>but they also failed them historically because and I think

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<v Speaker 1>things have gotten a lot better, but one could make

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<v Speaker 1>the argument that history classes still fail historically and telling

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<v Speaker 1>the true picture of some of these things. Absolutely, But

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<v Speaker 1>back then it was like at the sharecropper schools here

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<v Speaker 1>you're learning white history, and it's not just like this

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<v Speaker 1>is the important history, but this is the only history.

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<v Speaker 1>Yours does not matter exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and even worse than that, when they were taught

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<v Speaker 2>about their heritage or whatever, it was usually in relation

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<v Speaker 2>to slavery, and it was also in relation to how

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<v Speaker 2>black people preferred to be slaves and that they were

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<v Speaker 2>far worse off after the War of Northern Aggression freed them.

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<v Speaker 2>And that was just they weren't interested in politics, they

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<v Speaker 2>weren't really self starters, and they needed white people to

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<v Speaker 2>guide them. That was the education. You guy as an

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<v Speaker 2>African American kid in Mississippi around the time of the

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<v Speaker 2>Civil Rights struggle, and by the time nineteen sixty four

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<v Speaker 2>rolled around, there was a lot of agitation going on

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<v Speaker 2>in the African American community. A lot of people saw, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>there's no integration going on, things haven't changed at all,

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<v Speaker 2>were being kept down by Jim Crow era laws, and

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to agitate for change. And in response to that,

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<v Speaker 2>there was a lot of violence against that agitation for

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<v Speaker 2>change from the KKK, from state police, from local sheriffs,

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<v Speaker 2>from the local sheriffs redneck, Yeah, like you could get

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<v Speaker 2>yourself killed just by going to vote, registered to vote.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And if the police were not inciting or committing

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<v Speaker 1>the violence themselves, they certainly would turn a blind eye, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>to anything that was going on exactly and not do

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<v Speaker 1>police work.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's in this context around December of nineteen sixty

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<v Speaker 2>three that a guy named Robert Moses, who was one

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<v Speaker 2>of the members of I believe, he was with Core

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<v Speaker 2>the No I'm sorry, he was with SNICK, the student

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<v Speaker 2>Nonviolent Coordinating Committee in Mississippi, and he said, I've got

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<v Speaker 2>an idea. We're gonna call it Freedom Summer.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And the Freedom Summer. And by the way, big

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<v Speaker 1>shout out to Dave Ruse, big shout out one of

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<v Speaker 1>our stable of writers these days from the old house

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<v Speaker 1>Stuffworks dot com website. Dave is helping us out. And

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<v Speaker 1>boy he does a great job.

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<v Speaker 2>He does.

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<v Speaker 1>It's always a pleasure. Yeah, So thanks Dave. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>the Freedom Summer was in nineteen sixty four, and the

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<v Speaker 1>whole goal of the Freedom Summer was really to get

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<v Speaker 1>people registered to vote en mass right.

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<v Speaker 2>That was the stated goal of it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure, the subtext of it.

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<v Speaker 2>John Hale wrote a book on Freedom Summer and Freedom Schools,

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<v Speaker 2>which we're going to talk about, and he actually helped

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<v Speaker 2>Dave out with this article, So shout out to John

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<v Speaker 2>Hale too. But he had a quote from John Lewis,

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<v Speaker 2>the Great John Lewis, who said, basically, the point of

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<v Speaker 2>Freedom Summer was to force a showdown between local authorities

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<v Speaker 2>and federal authorities, because the local authorities were abusively enforcing

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<v Speaker 2>white supremacy and the fed authorities were turning a blind

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<v Speaker 2>eye to it, and so they said, we need to

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<v Speaker 2>put ourselves in visible harm's way and force a showdown

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<v Speaker 2>between these two entities.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, in nineteen sixty four is key. It wasn't just

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<v Speaker 1>sort of picked randomly. It was key because the Civil

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<v Speaker 1>Rights Act was going to be signed in July that year,

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<v Speaker 1>but it did not include black voting rights protection, and

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<v Speaker 1>the Democratic National Convention was going to be at the

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<v Speaker 1>end of August of that year in Atlantic City. And

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<v Speaker 1>this is basically like, let's get black folks registered to

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<v Speaker 1>vote so they can go in there and unseat these Dixiecrats.

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<v Speaker 1>The Southern Democrats who were still very much segregationists.

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<v Speaker 2>In Mississippi for the Democratic Convention. Their delegation, the Mississippi delegation,

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<v Speaker 2>was all white.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that was another big, big goal, was to

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<v Speaker 1>create a separate black delegation for that national convention.

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<v Speaker 2>So to get this to force the showdown between local

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<v Speaker 2>authorities and federal authorities. The civil rights activists like Robert

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<v Speaker 2>Moses working in Mississippi had zero illusions that the federal

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<v Speaker 2>government was going to come down and help them out,

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<v Speaker 2>no matter what they were doing. Instead, they would be

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<v Speaker 2>forced to act if white Northern kids, the children of

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<v Speaker 2>these federal authorities, came down to Mississippi and put themselves

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<v Speaker 2>in harm's way too.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Kids meaning you know, college students, right right, So

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<v Speaker 1>kids to old folks like us, right, exactly, youngsters, but

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<v Speaker 1>they weren't sending down like twelve year olds.

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, nothing like that, but like college students who

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to come down and help people who truly believed

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<v Speaker 2>in the cause of civil rights.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, white, liberal, progressive, Northern oftentimes Jewish, but not always.

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<v Speaker 2>But as far as getting the federal authorities to pay attention,

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<v Speaker 2>that first descriptor is the most important one White. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>because again they knew in Mississippi no federal authorities were

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<v Speaker 2>going to pay attention to that. And I mean they

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<v Speaker 2>had good reason to think that Kennedy had the Civil

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<v Speaker 2>Rights Act as far back as nineteen sixty but agreed

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<v Speaker 2>not to bring it up in Congress because they were

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<v Speaker 2>still trying to figure out how to keep the Dixiecrats happy,

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<v Speaker 2>right and maybe get some sort of integration going or

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<v Speaker 2>civil rights going, And they've just been left hung out

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<v Speaker 2>to dry by the federal authorities so many times that

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<v Speaker 2>they were totally right in that assumption.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And they knew that in order to really affect change,

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<v Speaker 1>like you said, they were going to get no assistance

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<v Speaker 1>from the federal government, so they need to do it

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<v Speaker 1>on the ground, grassroots style. And what they were really

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<v Speaker 1>looking toward was the future, and they knew that getting

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<v Speaker 1>kids involved was the key and the only way to

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<v Speaker 1>do that. Or they figured the best way to do that,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think they were right was to devise what

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<v Speaker 1>was called the Freedom Schools in the summer of nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>sixty four, which ended up being forty one summer schools,

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<v Speaker 1>community based summer schools where they had core curriculums for sure,

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<v Speaker 1>But what they really were trying to do is teach

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<v Speaker 1>young black kids about their history and their self worth

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<v Speaker 1>and give them a path forward in the United States.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, with a voice, like give them an education that

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<v Speaker 2>they couldn't find anywhere in those sharecropper schools. Where the

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<v Speaker 2>sharecropper schools point was to keep them down, uneducated, and

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<v Speaker 2>out of politics so that they couldn't vote. These freedom

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<v Speaker 2>schools were meant to do the exact opposite, Yeah, to

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<v Speaker 2>teach them their self worth, but also to say, like,

0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:06.080
<v Speaker 2>here's how you can actually enact change and to create

0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:10.400
<v Speaker 2>the next generation of civil rights activists in Mississippi. That

0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:11.880
<v Speaker 2>was the point of the Freedom.

0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:13.640
<v Speaker 1>School Yeah, And like it was hitting me as I

0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.520
<v Speaker 1>was reading this, how progressive that was, Yeah for nineteen

0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:20.079
<v Speaker 1>sixty four, because that would be progressive now in places

0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:21.000
<v Speaker 1>like even Georgia.

0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:23.560
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, And it's still going on now, is we'll see,

0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:27.400
<v Speaker 2>Like the Children's Defense Fund revived the Freedom schools back

0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:29.120
<v Speaker 2>in the eighties, and I think they still have them,

0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:33.040
<v Speaker 2>and it does still have a tinge of subversion. Sadly,

0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.400
<v Speaker 2>teaching black kids in America they're self worth, Yeah, that's

0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:37.360
<v Speaker 2>that's sad.

0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:41.040
<v Speaker 1>All right, that's a great preamble. Should we take a break?

0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:45.760
<v Speaker 1>All right, we are going to take a break, and

0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:47.960
<v Speaker 1>we're going to come back and really dig into the

0:12:47.960 --> 0:13:14.280
<v Speaker 1>mission of the Freedom schools right after this things Okay,

0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:18.880
<v Speaker 1>So Freedom Schools again launched and proposed by s n

0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:25.080
<v Speaker 1>CC snick snick snick leader Charlie Cobb in December sixty three,

0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:28.000
<v Speaker 1>and they had three The original idea was, let's get

0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:31.079
<v Speaker 1>eleventh and twelfth graders because they're just on the cusp

0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.880
<v Speaker 1>of being in you know, in the real world. Arguably

0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.199
<v Speaker 1>already were in the real world. Yeah, you know what

0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:40.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm saying. And they had three stated purposes that they

0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:43.840
<v Speaker 1>wanted to accomplish. Supplement what they aren't learning in high

0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:47.839
<v Speaker 1>school simple enough. Number two, give them a broad intellectual

0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:51.960
<v Speaker 1>and academic experience during the summertime to bring back to

0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:55.640
<v Speaker 1>students in the classrooms I guess in the fall, and

0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:59.319
<v Speaker 1>then form the basis for statewide student action like here's

0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:01.600
<v Speaker 1>how you can boy caught something, here's how you can

0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:05.240
<v Speaker 1>raise awareness, like teach them how to be grassroots activists.

0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.000
<v Speaker 2>And also one of the things that they wanted to

0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:11.680
<v Speaker 2>teach them that we'll see is this is how things work, Like,

0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.560
<v Speaker 2>here's the nuts and bolts of this power structure that

0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:18.120
<v Speaker 2>we live in that holds us down, and here, understanding

0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.120
<v Speaker 2>how it works, you can start to poke around and

0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:22.840
<v Speaker 2>figure out how to overcome that. That was a huge,

0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:23.880
<v Speaker 2>huge part of it.

0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:29.480
<v Speaker 1>That's right. So it all starts with volunteers, right. And these,

0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:33.520
<v Speaker 1>like we said, are mainly college students. They saw this

0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:36.520
<v Speaker 1>by way of ads in the New York Times and

0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.720
<v Speaker 1>other groups and college campuses that basically said, hey, this

0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.000
<v Speaker 1>is what we want to do. You've been watching this

0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.160
<v Speaker 1>on TV every night. I know that you might live

0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:49.280
<v Speaker 1>in Manhattan or Brooklyn or someplace, but if you are

0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:53.200
<v Speaker 1>a young white liberal progressive and you really want to

0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:55.520
<v Speaker 1>make a difference, get off your couch and come down

0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:58.640
<v Speaker 1>to Mississippi for the summer. Sure in danger your life

0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:00.800
<v Speaker 1>and helped teach these kids.

0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I think something like a thousand I saw,

0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:07.680
<v Speaker 2>like as much as twenty five hundred. A bunch of

0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:13.920
<v Speaker 2>people answered this call, Like northern mostly white college students

0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:16.240
<v Speaker 2>came down to Mississippi for this freedom summer, not just

0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:17.120
<v Speaker 2>the freedom schools.

0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:19.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I think two hundred and eighty of them

0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:21.880
<v Speaker 1>ended up being teachers. Out of about the seven hundred

0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:23.720
<v Speaker 1>or so who volunteered for the Freedom Summer.

0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:27.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I've heard different stories on how the people

0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:31.240
<v Speaker 2>who got selected to be teachers for the Freedom schools

0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:37.120
<v Speaker 2>were selected. This article makes it sound like the greener ones,

0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:39.880
<v Speaker 2>the ones who really shouldn't be put in harm's way,

0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.520
<v Speaker 2>were assigned to the Freedom schools. But from what I've read,

0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.240
<v Speaker 2>they were very much in harm's way as being teachers

0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:47.400
<v Speaker 2>of these Freedom schools.

0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:48.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:53.360
<v Speaker 2>But regardless of who got assigned to become a Freedom

0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.560
<v Speaker 2>School teacher or why, they were told you're gonna have

0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.120
<v Speaker 2>to pay your way to and from Mississippi, You're gonna

0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.120
<v Speaker 2>have to pay your own room and board, so expect

0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:04.280
<v Speaker 2>to have to shell out over two hundred bucks or

0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:06.400
<v Speaker 2>up to two hundred bucks over the course of the summer.

0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:09.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. It also said they would live basically in the

0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:12.800
<v Speaker 1>homes of local black families. I wonder if they paid

0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:13.320
<v Speaker 1>them rent.

0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:16.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if they paid them rent. But the

0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:20.400
<v Speaker 2>black families who did put these white Northern College students

0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:24.040
<v Speaker 2>up over the summer to teach Freedom schools very much

0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:27.920
<v Speaker 2>put their own families homes in harm's way. Because the

0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:31.240
<v Speaker 2>Freedom school and actually the whole Freedom Summer volunteers who

0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.480
<v Speaker 2>came down. They didn't take Mississippi by surprise. The white

0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.440
<v Speaker 2>power establishment Mississippi knew they were coming and they were

0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.920
<v Speaker 2>very unhappy about this. They said publicly that these people

0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:44.440
<v Speaker 2>would be treated as invaders, that this was a second

0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:48.200
<v Speaker 2>war of Northern Aggression. They doubled the number of highway

0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:52.880
<v Speaker 2>patrol officers and not to keep the peace. They knew

0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:54.920
<v Speaker 2>they were coming down, and they were not happy about

0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:57.160
<v Speaker 2>these Freedom schools or the Freedom Summer in general.

0:16:57.480 --> 0:16:59.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I guess we should go ahead and say

0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.000
<v Speaker 1>right off the bat to add gravity to the situation.

0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:04.320
<v Speaker 1>And there may be a short stuff in here. I've

0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:06.160
<v Speaker 1>been wanting to do one on the disappearance of these

0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:11.479
<v Speaker 1>three men. But the Core Training Crew Congress of Racial

0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:15.639
<v Speaker 1>Equality was Core and they were helping out with the

0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:18.719
<v Speaker 1>freedom rides in the early sixties on the buses in

0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:22.760
<v Speaker 1>Selma in the Deep South. And there were three gentlemen,

0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:27.360
<v Speaker 1>Andrew Goodman and Michael Scharner, two white men, and another colleague,

0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:29.720
<v Speaker 1>James Cheney, a young black man that worked with corr.

0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:35.399
<v Speaker 1>They went missing in Longdale, Mississippi, and were basically taken

0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:39.280
<v Speaker 1>and murdered. So this is this is before a few

0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:42.040
<v Speaker 1>months before the Freedom Schools were to launch, and you're

0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:47.160
<v Speaker 1>going down there knowing that these men disappeared under mysterious circumstances.

0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:49.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm pretty sure it was like a week before basically,

0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.479
<v Speaker 2>because it happened like they got the news during the

0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:55.639
<v Speaker 2>orientation in Oxford, Ohio that they held for the Freedom

0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:59.000
<v Speaker 2>School teachers. The news came through that these three guys

0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:01.199
<v Speaker 2>had gone missing and then were later found murdered.

0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:03.520
<v Speaker 1>And some people did back out and were like, I

0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.359
<v Speaker 1>can't take this risk, but it seems like most of

0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:07.520
<v Speaker 1>them pressed on right.

0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:12.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, and I think some people's resolve was doubled

0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:15.840
<v Speaker 2>by that kind of thing too. But their disappearance and

0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:20.119
<v Speaker 2>ultimately their deaths proved that idea that these the civil

0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:24.199
<v Speaker 2>rights activists in Mississippi needed these white Northern volunteers to

0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:29.360
<v Speaker 2>come down. Because James Cheney, he was a local Mississippi activist,

0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:33.840
<v Speaker 2>he was a black guy. And Schwarner, Michael Schwarner and

0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:37.959
<v Speaker 2>Goodman Goodman, both of them were white. And because they

0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:41.160
<v Speaker 2>went missing along with Cheney, one hundred and fifty FBI

0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:44.720
<v Speaker 2>agents and two hundred what are the sailors from the

0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:48.679
<v Speaker 2>local naval stations showed up. Sure showed up to search

0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.720
<v Speaker 2>for these guys. And Michael Schwarener's widow said, this never

0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:55.560
<v Speaker 2>would have happened if my husband had been a black man,

0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:57.960
<v Speaker 2>and all this was happening because he was white.

0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:00.520
<v Speaker 1>I do want to there's this is rife with a

0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:02.080
<v Speaker 1>lot of quotes that a lot of them were not

0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:03.479
<v Speaker 1>going to read, but I did want to read this

0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:07.840
<v Speaker 1>one from Howard Zen. This is the message at this

0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:10.679
<v Speaker 1>orientation that you talked about at the Western College for

0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:13.960
<v Speaker 1>Women in Oxford. So you're showing up like I want

0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:15.960
<v Speaker 1>to volunteer. I want to do the right thing. They

0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:18.960
<v Speaker 1>sit you down an auditorium and say this. You'll arrive

0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:24.000
<v Speaker 1>in Ruleville, which is a place in Ruleville in the Delta.

0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:26.480
<v Speaker 1>It will be one hundred degrees. You'll be sweaty and dirty.

0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:28.200
<v Speaker 1>You won't be able to bathe offen, or sleep well

0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:30.639
<v Speaker 1>or eat good food. I don't know about that. I

0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:31.840
<v Speaker 1>bet that was some pretty decent food.

0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:32.800
<v Speaker 2>That kind of stuck out to.

0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:34.480
<v Speaker 1>Me too, Howard Zen. Might it not have thought? So

0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:37.119
<v Speaker 1>the first day of school, there may be four teachers

0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:40.800
<v Speaker 1>and three students, and the local Negro minister will phone

0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.399
<v Speaker 1>you to say you can't use his church basement after all,

0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.640
<v Speaker 1>because his life has been threatened. And the curriculum we've

0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:50.439
<v Speaker 1>drawn up Negro history and American government may be something

0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:53.400
<v Speaker 1>you know only a little about yourself. Well, you'll knock

0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:55.560
<v Speaker 1>on doors all day in the hot sun to find students.

0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.200
<v Speaker 1>You'll meet on someone's lawn under a tree. You'll tear

0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.040
<v Speaker 1>up the curriculum and teach what you need. And it

0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:03.040
<v Speaker 1>seems like that's really kind of what happened.

0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:05.280
<v Speaker 2>It was very prescient. Yeah. I don't know if that

0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:08.399
<v Speaker 2>quote was long after in him describing it, but if

0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:11.399
<v Speaker 2>that's what they told them at orientation before the Freedom schools,

0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:14.040
<v Speaker 2>then yeah, that's exactly how it ended up.

0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.120
<v Speaker 1>And how many I think originally they were gonna target,

0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:21.320
<v Speaker 1>like I said, eleventh and twelfth graders, twenty schools, about

0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:25.240
<v Speaker 1>one thousand students, right, But when you know, when school

0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.280
<v Speaker 1>day started, parents heard about this and brought everybody.

0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:30.800
<v Speaker 2>Basically they did something like I've seen as much as

0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:34.680
<v Speaker 2>twenty five hundred, but at least two thousand students were

0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:37.280
<v Speaker 2>enrolled in Freedom Schools in Mississippi this summer.

0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:39.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and they doubled the number of schools plus one

0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:40.640
<v Speaker 1>to forty one.

0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:44.520
<v Speaker 2>To forty one some I think Hattiesburg had six different schools.

0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:48.200
<v Speaker 2>Meridian had a school with two hundred and two hundred students.

0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:52.160
<v Speaker 2>That was the biggest one. It was, and they originally intended,

0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:55.480
<v Speaker 2>like you said, eleventh and twelfth graders, maybe as young

0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:59.160
<v Speaker 2>as middle like middle schoolers possibly, but really that was it,

0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:02.520
<v Speaker 2>and it ended up being elementary school kids. I believe

0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:04.359
<v Speaker 2>there was an eighty year old enrolled at one of

0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:09.399
<v Speaker 2>the Freedom schools, and it just became a sensation in

0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:14.439
<v Speaker 2>Mississippi among the African American community, and there was a

0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:17.639
<v Speaker 2>there was a New York Times article. They sent a

0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:20.760
<v Speaker 2>reporter down to kind of cover this, and the reporter

0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:23.680
<v Speaker 2>was in Holly Springs and there was a school teacher

0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:28.200
<v Speaker 2>from Chicago named Aviva Futtorian, and she said.

0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:29.639
<v Speaker 1>They were probably like, are you from outer space?

0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:32.760
<v Speaker 2>Kind of sounds like it. The silver jump suit she

0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:36.080
<v Speaker 2>was wearing didn't help, but she said that they were

0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:39.400
<v Speaker 2>teaching under a sweet gum tree. And this became kind

0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:42.639
<v Speaker 2>of like. That was another reason why that Oxford quote

0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:45.600
<v Speaker 2>from Howard's Inn was so prescient. It's like a lot

0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:49.480
<v Speaker 2>of times like they didn't have any place to actually meet,

0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:52.560
<v Speaker 2>They had to meet outside or on somebody's front porch

0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:53.879
<v Speaker 2>or something like that.

0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:56.760
<v Speaker 1>Because someone might say, like he said in the quote,

0:21:56.800 --> 0:21:59.200
<v Speaker 1>like hey, use my church basement. But then when the

0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:02.760
<v Speaker 1>KKK there, you know, they may burn across it in

0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:05.680
<v Speaker 1>that churchyard, and then that preacher has to say, I'm sorry,

0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:06.520
<v Speaker 1>I can't take the risk.

0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:10.560
<v Speaker 2>Well, so you know Schwerner and Cheney and Goodman when

0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:14.040
<v Speaker 2>they went when they were murdered, kidnapped and murdered, they

0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:17.120
<v Speaker 2>were investigating the burning of the church that they were

0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:19.119
<v Speaker 2>going to be holding their freedom school. That's what they

0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:20.640
<v Speaker 2>were doing out there, and they went to go find

0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:22.679
<v Speaker 2>out what happened, and that's when they went missing.

0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:26.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so message sent loud and clear. So school is outside,

0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:27.919
<v Speaker 1>which is every kid's favorite.

0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:29.680
<v Speaker 2>Thing, right, and then we as we'll see, there was

0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:32.359
<v Speaker 2>another There was at least one school that got fire

0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:36.000
<v Speaker 2>bombed and burned to the ground after school had already started.

0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:39.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't think any it was like after hours. But

0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:44.600
<v Speaker 2>the next day the school met in the yard next

0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:47.280
<v Speaker 2>to this burned down building that they'd been meeting in

0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:48.119
<v Speaker 2>the day before.

0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:49.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, pretty amazing.

0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:51.720
<v Speaker 2>So there was a lot of I mean, this wasn't

0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:54.919
<v Speaker 2>just going to school. There's a whole state full of

0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:59.520
<v Speaker 2>white people who violently did not want you to be

0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:00.560
<v Speaker 2>learning this stuff.

0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:03.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they were just as organized on you know, the

0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:07.120
<v Speaker 1>defense of this right or I guess the offense, which

0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:11.840
<v Speaker 1>would that be. They weren't defending it, no, to go

0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:14.639
<v Speaker 1>on the offensive. Sure, I just got mixed up in

0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:14.920
<v Speaker 1>my head.

0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:16.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you got it finally, all right.

0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:19.800
<v Speaker 1>So in the spring of nineteen sixty four they met

0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:21.679
<v Speaker 1>and they were like, listen, we need to get a

0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:23.879
<v Speaker 1>curriculum together, because this is a real school.

0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:26.200
<v Speaker 2>They're going to tear it up, but we're going to

0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:27.240
<v Speaker 2>get it down at least.

0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:33.359
<v Speaker 1>And the final one had sections for like I said, reading, writing, arithmetic,

0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:37.040
<v Speaker 1>the three RS, and science. But the bulk of it

0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:42.280
<v Speaker 1>was what they called citizen curriculum, citizenship curriculum, which is

0:23:42.280 --> 0:23:46.359
<v Speaker 1>basically like African American civics, which they had never heard of,

0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:50.920
<v Speaker 1>right and never learned. Yeah, Like, I'm sure parents told

0:23:50.920 --> 0:23:53.520
<v Speaker 1>them stories and stuff, but as far as going to school,

0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:55.480
<v Speaker 1>they had never encountered anything like this before.

0:23:55.560 --> 0:23:57.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, depending on the age of their parents too,

0:23:57.560 --> 0:24:00.560
<v Speaker 2>their parents might have never heard anything like that before either.

0:24:01.840 --> 0:24:05.440
<v Speaker 2>So there was the citizenship curriculum was broken into seven

0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:10.320
<v Speaker 2>units and each one built upon the last unit. It

0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:14.280
<v Speaker 2>was meant to basically say, here's the status quo, here's

0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:17.320
<v Speaker 2>what's wrong with the status quo, here's how to change

0:24:17.320 --> 0:24:19.720
<v Speaker 2>to the status quo. Or basically, the three buckets you

0:24:19.760 --> 0:24:23.960
<v Speaker 2>could put everything in, and the one. I haven't read

0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:25.960
<v Speaker 2>all of them, but I went and read the fourth one,

0:24:26.119 --> 0:24:30.280
<v Speaker 2>called the Power Structure, Unit four, and I would strongly recommend.

0:24:30.600 --> 0:24:35.199
<v Speaker 2>I think the Student Non Violent Coordinating Committee's digital archive

0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:37.240
<v Speaker 2>has it like digitized.

0:24:37.320 --> 0:24:39.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's when you sent me, right, But.

0:24:39.800 --> 0:24:43.040
<v Speaker 2>Go read it. It's called Unit four, Introducing the Power Structure,

0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:51.040
<v Speaker 2>and it explains how and why white people are taught

0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:56.920
<v Speaker 2>to be afraid of and hate black people, how black

0:24:56.960 --> 0:25:00.520
<v Speaker 2>people are taught that they're inferior, and and that the

0:25:00.640 --> 0:25:05.000
<v Speaker 2>reason behind the whole thing is money and profits, and

0:25:05.040 --> 0:25:08.719
<v Speaker 2>that all of the racism and hatred and fear and

0:25:08.800 --> 0:25:12.400
<v Speaker 2>crime and all that stuff is all just window dressing

0:25:13.040 --> 0:25:16.800
<v Speaker 2>around this power structure that's meant to keep people servile

0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:20.240
<v Speaker 2>and available for cheap labor so that some people can

0:25:20.280 --> 0:25:23.760
<v Speaker 2>profit more off of their work. It's the most disgusting

0:25:23.760 --> 0:25:25.639
<v Speaker 2>thing I've ever read, but it's also one of the

0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:29.879
<v Speaker 2>most eye opening, and it was designed for eleventh and

0:25:29.960 --> 0:25:33.480
<v Speaker 2>twelfth graders to back in the sixties, and it still

0:25:33.520 --> 0:25:35.240
<v Speaker 2>brings one hundred percent true today.

0:25:35.680 --> 0:25:37.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the one that I'm going to dig in and

0:25:37.560 --> 0:25:42.800
<v Speaker 1>read I didn't have time but number six material things

0:25:42.840 --> 0:25:46.080
<v Speaker 1>and soul things. So this is almost the last one

0:25:47.440 --> 0:25:51.320
<v Speaker 1>on the citizenship curriculum units, and that is that black

0:25:51.359 --> 0:25:54.280
<v Speaker 1>people will not achieve true freedom by trying to acquire

0:25:54.320 --> 0:25:57.320
<v Speaker 1>more stuff, but by using their insights about oppression to

0:25:57.359 --> 0:25:59.800
<v Speaker 1>create a new kind of society. And I think that's

0:25:59.840 --> 0:26:03.200
<v Speaker 1>so important in these In this curriculum, it's like we're

0:26:03.240 --> 0:26:05.680
<v Speaker 1>not trying to teach you like, hey, go out there

0:26:05.920 --> 0:26:10.000
<v Speaker 1>and try and gain status in society so you can

0:26:10.000 --> 0:26:13.520
<v Speaker 1>get a bigger house, right, or things that you see

0:26:13.680 --> 0:26:16.119
<v Speaker 1>that these white people have, right, which I'm sure was

0:26:16.200 --> 0:26:17.879
<v Speaker 1>you know, you covet things. That's what people do, so

0:26:17.880 --> 0:26:21.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure that was a natural inclination, like I want

0:26:21.200 --> 0:26:24.000
<v Speaker 1>the stuff that they have. But it's so important to

0:26:24.000 --> 0:26:26.240
<v Speaker 1>say like that the stuff isn't what matters.

0:26:25.920 --> 0:26:28.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, not only just stuff in general, but there's they

0:26:28.880 --> 0:26:31.600
<v Speaker 2>kind of walk the students through it in this curriculum

0:26:31.640 --> 0:26:34.160
<v Speaker 2>where they say, like, what are some things that white

0:26:34.200 --> 0:26:36.800
<v Speaker 2>people have that you don't have that you wish you had.

0:26:37.040 --> 0:26:39.760
<v Speaker 2>What are some things white people have that you don't want?

0:26:40.600 --> 0:26:44.880
<v Speaker 2>And the purpose of this curriculum wasn't to teach black

0:26:44.960 --> 0:26:47.560
<v Speaker 2>kids to hate white kids. Now, as a matter of fact,

0:26:47.600 --> 0:26:50.440
<v Speaker 2>it actually teaches them to understand white people more. Yeah,

0:26:50.560 --> 0:26:52.960
<v Speaker 2>let me read you this quote from this unit four.

0:26:53.600 --> 0:26:55.919
<v Speaker 2>We have learned that although it seems that white people

0:26:55.960 --> 0:26:58.600
<v Speaker 2>have better schools, for instance, that they pay for it

0:26:58.640 --> 0:27:02.440
<v Speaker 2>by learning lies and by learning to hate and be afraid.

0:27:03.000 --> 0:27:05.480
<v Speaker 2>We have learned that we are misled by these lies too,

0:27:05.760 --> 0:27:07.840
<v Speaker 2>that the myths have taught us to believe that we

0:27:07.880 --> 0:27:10.280
<v Speaker 2>are inferior and dumb, and that we have made no

0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:14.399
<v Speaker 2>contributions to society. So it's just it's saying like, don't

0:27:14.400 --> 0:27:17.520
<v Speaker 2>hate white people. They're being duped by this too, right,

0:27:17.760 --> 0:27:21.159
<v Speaker 2>But they're patsies in this power structure too. They just

0:27:21.240 --> 0:27:25.760
<v Speaker 2>happened to not be the group that's being stepped on, right,

0:27:26.000 --> 0:27:28.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, but they're still being used and abused.

0:27:28.359 --> 0:27:34.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, school children in particular for context, and well, it's

0:27:34.280 --> 0:27:38.040
<v Speaker 1>interesting too when you just talked about like they wanted

0:27:38.080 --> 0:27:41.920
<v Speaker 1>the same things, not necessarily stuff as the white students.

0:27:42.320 --> 0:27:45.639
<v Speaker 1>One of the most popular classes because you know, they

0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:47.439
<v Speaker 1>would get in there and say, this is what I

0:27:47.480 --> 0:27:49.280
<v Speaker 1>want to learn. And that's the whole part about tearing

0:27:49.359 --> 0:27:52.320
<v Speaker 1>up the curriculum. One of the most popular subjects in

0:27:52.400 --> 0:27:56.439
<v Speaker 1>one of these schools was French, and they wanted to

0:27:56.480 --> 0:27:58.879
<v Speaker 1>learn French because they knew white kids had a French teacher.

0:27:59.600 --> 0:28:01.680
<v Speaker 1>Like something is innocuous as that, Like I want to

0:28:01.760 --> 0:28:02.520
<v Speaker 1>learn French.

0:28:02.280 --> 0:28:04.640
<v Speaker 2>Too, right, And I mean that was the point in schools,

0:28:04.680 --> 0:28:06.639
<v Speaker 2>not just like sit down and shut up and listen,

0:28:06.720 --> 0:28:08.399
<v Speaker 2>this is what we're here to teach you. It was

0:28:08.440 --> 0:28:09.320
<v Speaker 2>what do you want to learn?

0:28:09.440 --> 0:28:09.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:28:09.720 --> 0:28:12.000
<v Speaker 2>What are you guys going to feel good about yourselves

0:28:12.040 --> 0:28:14.119
<v Speaker 2>for knowing that you came You didn't know when you

0:28:14.160 --> 0:28:17.040
<v Speaker 2>came in here. And so teaching in the Freedom Schools

0:28:17.040 --> 0:28:22.480
<v Speaker 2>that summer was super improvisational and spontaneous. They really did

0:28:22.520 --> 0:28:24.640
<v Speaker 2>tear up the curriculum in a lot of a lot

0:28:24.680 --> 0:28:25.240
<v Speaker 2>of cases.

0:28:25.840 --> 0:28:27.840
<v Speaker 1>Sounds like a good model for schools period.

0:28:28.080 --> 0:28:30.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it sounds like one of those like Waldorf schools

0:28:30.840 --> 0:28:33.119
<v Speaker 2>or a Monassori school or something like that. It sounds

0:28:33.200 --> 0:28:36.919
<v Speaker 2>very much like one of those childhood Yeah, but I

0:28:36.920 --> 0:28:39.920
<v Speaker 2>mean that was that was the point, was to not

0:28:40.040 --> 0:28:43.400
<v Speaker 2>to drill them with what the adults thought they should learn.

0:28:43.480 --> 0:28:46.680
<v Speaker 2>But to raise up their self worth and self esteem

0:28:46.760 --> 0:28:48.840
<v Speaker 2>and whatever that took is what they taught them.

0:28:48.960 --> 0:28:51.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's cool that they didn't. Not only were

0:28:51.760 --> 0:28:55.160
<v Speaker 1>they concerned about civics and the core academics, but something

0:28:55.200 --> 0:28:57.680
<v Speaker 1>that could have very easily been pushed to the side

0:28:57.920 --> 0:29:02.080
<v Speaker 1>is creative pursuit. And they really embraced that because they

0:29:02.080 --> 0:29:05.880
<v Speaker 1>found that these students were natural poets and really eager

0:29:06.000 --> 0:29:09.000
<v Speaker 1>to get in there and read and write poetry. They

0:29:09.000 --> 0:29:12.720
<v Speaker 1>read Robert Frost and Langston Hughes and Gertrude Stein and

0:29:13.560 --> 0:29:15.680
<v Speaker 1>wrote a lot of poetry themselves. Some of it is

0:29:15.720 --> 0:29:18.760
<v Speaker 1>just heartbreaking, some of it inspiring, some of it both.

0:29:19.600 --> 0:29:23.840
<v Speaker 1>There was one school in Hattiesburg, Mississippi, Freedom School, students

0:29:23.880 --> 0:29:27.640
<v Speaker 1>of Saint John's Methodist Church. They wrote their own declaration

0:29:27.720 --> 0:29:30.640
<v Speaker 1>of independence and it's all in here in this article.

0:29:30.680 --> 0:29:32.800
<v Speaker 1>We can't go through the whole thing, but I encourage

0:29:32.800 --> 0:29:35.560
<v Speaker 1>you to read this thing in full. It's really heady

0:29:35.760 --> 0:29:37.040
<v Speaker 1>like advanced stuff.

0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:40.880
<v Speaker 2>It really is. There are also newspapers were really big

0:29:40.920 --> 0:29:45.120
<v Speaker 2>at the Freedom schools, and they qualified as alternative newspapers,

0:29:45.440 --> 0:29:48.360
<v Speaker 2>and that guy John Hale, the professor from South Carolina

0:29:48.400 --> 0:29:52.440
<v Speaker 2>who wrote the book on Freedom Schools literally literally. He

0:29:52.560 --> 0:29:57.440
<v Speaker 2>says that in Mississippi that summer, the freedom schools student

0:29:57.600 --> 0:30:01.959
<v Speaker 2>run newspapers were the biggest so of civil rights news,

0:30:02.040 --> 0:30:04.520
<v Speaker 2>can you believe in the entire states? Amazing, and that

0:30:04.560 --> 0:30:07.440
<v Speaker 2>they were the state's first taste of alternative news.

0:30:07.560 --> 0:30:07.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:30:07.880 --> 0:30:10.960
<v Speaker 2>Ever, but that like almost all of the forty one

0:30:11.040 --> 0:30:13.480
<v Speaker 2>schools had their own newspapers, and in some communities that's

0:30:13.960 --> 0:30:16.400
<v Speaker 2>that's how some adults were learning what they needed to

0:30:16.400 --> 0:30:18.680
<v Speaker 2>do to go register to vote by reading it in

0:30:18.720 --> 0:30:20.720
<v Speaker 2>the student run freedom school newspaper.

0:30:21.000 --> 0:30:23.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I was a newspaper staffer. I think you were too,

0:30:23.960 --> 0:30:26.680
<v Speaker 1>probably right, Sure were you just starting your own papers?

0:30:26.760 --> 0:30:27.080
<v Speaker 2>Sure?

0:30:28.680 --> 0:30:30.520
<v Speaker 1>But I was a newspaper staffer in high school. And

0:30:30.520 --> 0:30:34.920
<v Speaker 1>there's something about like putting together a publication that even

0:30:35.000 --> 0:30:39.760
<v Speaker 1>I've seen little kids doing for fun, and I remember

0:30:39.840 --> 0:30:42.959
<v Speaker 1>doing for fun. So it doesn't surprise me that like

0:30:43.480 --> 0:30:46.360
<v Speaker 1>that the newspaper was. Every school had their own, and

0:30:46.400 --> 0:30:48.240
<v Speaker 1>it seems like they were really really into it.

0:30:48.440 --> 0:30:51.320
<v Speaker 2>I could see your little family newspaper, You're like extra extra.

0:30:51.440 --> 0:30:54.160
<v Speaker 2>Mom puts too much hot sauce on eggs. This morning day.

0:30:54.120 --> 0:30:56.920
<v Speaker 1>Ruined well, it's on my mind because I just got

0:30:56.920 --> 0:31:00.600
<v Speaker 1>back from vacation and we went with one, two, three,

0:31:01.000 --> 0:31:04.760
<v Speaker 1>four older girls plus my younger daughter, and they did

0:31:05.720 --> 0:31:08.120
<v Speaker 1>the Beach Blotter. They'd put together their own little magazine

0:31:08.120 --> 0:31:10.480
<v Speaker 1>for the week, and I just remembered, I'm like, man,

0:31:11.120 --> 0:31:14.680
<v Speaker 1>kids are just drawn to putting together newspapers and magazines,

0:31:15.120 --> 0:31:17.640
<v Speaker 1>and these kids in the Freedom Schools leaped at the

0:31:17.720 --> 0:31:22.240
<v Speaker 1>chance to interview people and to be little cub reporters

0:31:22.560 --> 0:31:24.320
<v Speaker 1>and type this stuff up. They were really big on

0:31:24.400 --> 0:31:27.600
<v Speaker 1>taking typing classes because that would lead to work obviously

0:31:27.680 --> 0:31:30.400
<v Speaker 1>later on as well. I just thought it was really

0:31:30.480 --> 0:31:31.640
<v Speaker 1>kind of a cool part of this whole thing.

0:31:31.760 --> 0:31:32.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know, it's super cool.

0:31:33.280 --> 0:31:36.360
<v Speaker 1>As was the theater. There was a traveling group called

0:31:36.360 --> 0:31:39.120
<v Speaker 1>the Free Southern Theater that would perform a play called

0:31:39.160 --> 0:31:42.040
<v Speaker 1>in White America, and they would go around to Freedom

0:31:42.080 --> 0:31:44.960
<v Speaker 1>schools and perform this play. And there were music groups,

0:31:45.400 --> 0:31:48.880
<v Speaker 1>the Great Great Folks. Singer and activist Pete Seeger went

0:31:48.920 --> 0:31:51.680
<v Speaker 1>down there, of course and toured the Freedom schools. I

0:31:51.720 --> 0:31:53.600
<v Speaker 1>was like, here's how you play a G chord and

0:31:53.800 --> 0:31:56.280
<v Speaker 1>sing about like things that matter. Pretty great.

0:31:56.680 --> 0:32:00.360
<v Speaker 2>Why don't you go on over to the fridge rosen

0:32:00.400 --> 0:32:01.040
<v Speaker 2>snicker bone.

0:32:01.160 --> 0:32:03.160
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, I don't.

0:32:03.000 --> 0:32:05.440
<v Speaker 2>Even like frozen snickers. That's the big reveal at the

0:32:05.480 --> 0:32:06.080
<v Speaker 2>end of the song.

0:32:06.160 --> 0:32:08.200
<v Speaker 1>But you know, lou Reid does sure or did?

0:32:08.480 --> 0:32:12.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? So should we take another break?

0:32:12.560 --> 0:32:12.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:32:12.960 --> 0:32:14.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, We're going to take a break. Everybody, so sit

0:32:15.000 --> 0:32:19.960
<v Speaker 2>tight and we'll be right back and things.

0:32:20.280 --> 0:32:21.120
<v Speaker 1>Job and job.

0:32:40.640 --> 0:32:44.800
<v Speaker 2>So like I said, Chuck, this experiment in pushing Mississippi

0:32:45.000 --> 0:32:48.200
<v Speaker 2>into the civil rights era was not well received by

0:32:48.280 --> 0:32:51.400
<v Speaker 2>the white power establishment, and I think it kind of

0:32:51.520 --> 0:32:57.040
<v Speaker 2>varied from one community to another, and but none none

0:32:57.040 --> 0:32:59.640
<v Speaker 2>of them were happy from what I understand, and the

0:32:59.680 --> 0:33:02.600
<v Speaker 2>ones that were unhappiest with the Freedom Schools were very,

0:33:02.720 --> 0:33:07.440
<v Speaker 2>very violent in retaliation for these things. This one summer,

0:33:07.480 --> 0:33:10.240
<v Speaker 2>this Freedom Summer lasted ten weeks. I think the Freedom

0:33:10.240 --> 0:33:13.480
<v Speaker 2>Schools lasted six weeks, but the Freedom Summer itself lasted

0:33:13.480 --> 0:33:17.520
<v Speaker 2>ten weeks. And in that ten week period, thirty homes

0:33:18.280 --> 0:33:23.240
<v Speaker 2>of black residents, thirty seven black churches were fire bombed.

0:33:23.840 --> 0:33:29.320
<v Speaker 2>In one summer in Mississippi, demonstrators were shot at thirty

0:33:29.320 --> 0:33:35.800
<v Speaker 2>five different times by the police. Eighty volunteers were attacked

0:33:36.200 --> 0:33:40.440
<v Speaker 2>or beaten by white mobs or police officers. There were

0:33:40.520 --> 0:33:43.560
<v Speaker 2>six known murders that summer related to the Freedom Summer,

0:33:44.600 --> 0:33:50.520
<v Speaker 2>and female volunteers were sexually assaulted. It was a really violent,

0:33:50.920 --> 0:33:53.320
<v Speaker 2>dangerous place to be doing what they were doing at

0:33:53.400 --> 0:33:53.760
<v Speaker 2>the time.

0:33:54.560 --> 0:33:57.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there was one town, Macomb, Mississippi. There were more

0:33:57.960 --> 0:34:01.480
<v Speaker 1>than a dozen bombings in two months, more than twelve

0:34:01.560 --> 0:34:03.720
<v Speaker 1>bombings in a two month period, twelve and a half,

0:34:04.200 --> 0:34:07.600
<v Speaker 1>and there were they were called the bombing capital of

0:34:07.640 --> 0:34:11.239
<v Speaker 1>the world at the time, again local police turning a

0:34:11.280 --> 0:34:11.799
<v Speaker 1>blind eye.

0:34:11.880 --> 0:34:14.359
<v Speaker 2>I get the impression that, like they actually qualified as

0:34:14.400 --> 0:34:15.840
<v Speaker 2>the bombing capital of the world.

0:34:16.239 --> 0:34:18.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it wasn't just a thing written in a freedom

0:34:18.960 --> 0:34:19.799
<v Speaker 1>school paper, right, It.

0:34:19.800 --> 0:34:22.719
<v Speaker 2>Wasn't like an offhanded comment like they may have qualified

0:34:22.760 --> 0:34:24.720
<v Speaker 2>as the bombing capital of the world.

0:34:25.040 --> 0:34:26.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's crazy.

0:34:27.480 --> 0:34:31.239
<v Speaker 2>And even if there wasn't like direct violence, there was

0:34:31.440 --> 0:34:35.840
<v Speaker 2>indirect violence, intimidation, intimidation. People would probably drive.

0:34:35.600 --> 0:34:38.080
<v Speaker 1>By and say the worst things.

0:34:38.040 --> 0:34:41.359
<v Speaker 2>Get right exactly. So it was not it was a

0:34:41.400 --> 0:34:44.759
<v Speaker 2>struggle to just make it through this summer, but they

0:34:44.760 --> 0:34:47.080
<v Speaker 2>did as a matter of fact, and one of the

0:34:47.120 --> 0:34:52.200
<v Speaker 2>goals of this Freedom Schools was to create or help

0:34:52.320 --> 0:34:57.000
<v Speaker 2>get the Mississippi Democratic Freedom Party, the antidote to the

0:34:57.000 --> 0:35:02.480
<v Speaker 2>Dixiecrats in Mississippi seated at the Democratic National Convention, and

0:35:03.040 --> 0:35:06.880
<v Speaker 2>they attempted to do that and actually got a meeting

0:35:07.520 --> 0:35:11.120
<v Speaker 2>at the Credentials Committee of the DNC, but we're ultimately

0:35:11.120 --> 0:35:11.640
<v Speaker 2>turned down.

0:35:12.040 --> 0:35:14.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they had delegates. This is just amazing. They had

0:35:14.360 --> 0:35:17.319
<v Speaker 1>delegates from all forty one of these schools and they

0:35:17.360 --> 0:35:22.359
<v Speaker 1>met at a statewide convention in Meridian, Mississippi, a place

0:35:22.400 --> 0:35:24.840
<v Speaker 1>I have been through on a greyhound bus.

0:35:25.080 --> 0:35:27.879
<v Speaker 2>Wow, that's a country song in emotion right there.

0:35:28.200 --> 0:35:31.160
<v Speaker 1>For sure. That was a place where they stopped us

0:35:31.160 --> 0:35:32.520
<v Speaker 1>and the drug dogs got on.

0:35:33.000 --> 0:35:34.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh gotcha in Meridian?

0:35:34.400 --> 0:35:36.640
<v Speaker 1>Huh Yeah? And I was like, oh, interesting, I never

0:35:36.680 --> 0:35:39.279
<v Speaker 1>thought about greyhound buses. Is probably a great way to

0:35:39.320 --> 0:35:42.640
<v Speaker 1>transport drugs, but probably not heys.

0:35:42.640 --> 0:35:45.240
<v Speaker 2>Speaking of country music, have you seen that Ken Burns documentary?

0:35:45.239 --> 0:35:47.359
<v Speaker 1>Not yet. I've heard it's great. Oh my, it's good.

0:35:47.600 --> 0:35:49.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm in the country music now.

0:35:51.800 --> 0:35:53.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, I saw your Dixie Chicks tattoo on your neck,

0:35:54.040 --> 0:35:54.799
<v Speaker 1>So I wonder what.

0:35:54.760 --> 0:35:56.760
<v Speaker 2>That was all about. Just pen right now, I haven't

0:35:56.800 --> 0:35:58.080
<v Speaker 2>I haven't pulled the trigger all the way.

0:35:58.160 --> 0:36:01.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing that. So they

0:36:01.560 --> 0:36:04.279
<v Speaker 1>wrote these kids, these delegates went down there, they wrote

0:36:04.280 --> 0:36:10.120
<v Speaker 1>their own political platform for the MFDP, and it was

0:36:10.440 --> 0:36:13.080
<v Speaker 1>it's amazing, like, these are kids that in six weeks

0:36:13.120 --> 0:36:18.920
<v Speaker 1>time went from just basically having no hope whatsoever to

0:36:19.120 --> 0:36:24.320
<v Speaker 1>fully forming a delegation and writing their own political platform

0:36:24.360 --> 0:36:26.040
<v Speaker 1>and presenting it in public. Right.

0:36:26.080 --> 0:36:28.279
<v Speaker 2>And it wasn't it wasn't like, hey, let's get these

0:36:28.320 --> 0:36:32.000
<v Speaker 2>kids citied at the DNC, Like the Mississippi Democratic Freedom

0:36:32.040 --> 0:36:37.160
<v Speaker 2>Party was made up of adult activists, but the kids

0:36:37.200 --> 0:36:41.319
<v Speaker 2>from the Freedom Schools helped write their platform. They also

0:36:41.560 --> 0:36:44.160
<v Speaker 2>formed from this delegation that met at the end of

0:36:44.160 --> 0:36:48.040
<v Speaker 2>the summer, the Mississippi Student Union. And this actually brought

0:36:48.080 --> 0:36:51.160
<v Speaker 2>to fruition one of the other stated goals of Freedom Schools,

0:36:51.160 --> 0:36:54.560
<v Speaker 2>which was creating the next generation of activists. Right, because

0:36:54.600 --> 0:36:58.799
<v Speaker 2>when Freedom School was over and Sharecropper School started back

0:36:58.800 --> 0:37:01.920
<v Speaker 2>again or even integrated schools around the state, all of

0:37:01.960 --> 0:37:05.239
<v Speaker 2>a sudden there were kids wearing like one Man, one

0:37:05.320 --> 0:37:08.000
<v Speaker 2>Vote buttons, which could get you expelled, and actually did

0:37:08.040 --> 0:37:10.880
<v Speaker 2>get some kids expelled. But there were like little civil

0:37:10.960 --> 0:37:14.279
<v Speaker 2>rights activists showing up to school aware now of the

0:37:14.320 --> 0:37:16.759
<v Speaker 2>situation they were dealing with, and ready to take it on.

0:37:17.120 --> 0:37:21.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, twenty five of them volunteered to be the first

0:37:21.480 --> 0:37:24.439
<v Speaker 1>to desegregate their local high schools. Yeah, so that call

0:37:24.480 --> 0:37:27.560
<v Speaker 1>comes out, like we have to desegregate. Who's going to

0:37:27.640 --> 0:37:30.399
<v Speaker 1>be the one? I know, just the people to walk

0:37:30.440 --> 0:37:32.680
<v Speaker 1>in there, and twenty five of these graduates of the

0:37:32.680 --> 0:37:33.640
<v Speaker 1>Freedom Schools did so.

0:37:33.880 --> 0:37:36.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so it was a big deal. I mean, they

0:37:36.880 --> 0:37:42.200
<v Speaker 2>managed to create the next generation of activist leaders. But

0:37:42.320 --> 0:37:45.759
<v Speaker 2>one of the other kind of the through lines of

0:37:45.840 --> 0:37:49.520
<v Speaker 2>the civil rights struggle during this time and of the

0:37:49.560 --> 0:37:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Freedom Schools themselves, was the idea that if you had

0:37:54.080 --> 0:37:57.320
<v Speaker 2>I think the quote was if you have strong people

0:37:58.320 --> 0:38:03.200
<v Speaker 2>or no, strong people, don't need strong leaders, And a

0:38:03.239 --> 0:38:05.440
<v Speaker 2>civil rights activist, nam Ela Baker said that, and the

0:38:05.480 --> 0:38:09.680
<v Speaker 2>point was like, if you teach everybody how to struggle

0:38:09.719 --> 0:38:11.399
<v Speaker 2>for themselves, how to fight for themselves, how to stand

0:38:11.440 --> 0:38:13.719
<v Speaker 2>up for themselves, you don't have to wait around for

0:38:13.880 --> 0:38:17.480
<v Speaker 2>Martin a once in a you know, handful of generations

0:38:17.480 --> 0:38:20.279
<v Speaker 2>person like Martin Luther King Junior to come along and

0:38:20.360 --> 0:38:23.319
<v Speaker 2>lead the way. The people can lead the way themselves.

0:38:23.440 --> 0:38:25.000
<v Speaker 2>And that was one of the things that they were

0:38:25.000 --> 0:38:27.080
<v Speaker 2>doing with the Freedom Schools, not just trying to come

0:38:27.120 --> 0:38:30.040
<v Speaker 2>up with the next leaders they needed leaders, sure, but

0:38:30.200 --> 0:38:32.960
<v Speaker 2>also to make everybody who came to the Freedom School

0:38:33.000 --> 0:38:34.680
<v Speaker 2>like aware and ready for action.

0:38:35.280 --> 0:38:40.560
<v Speaker 1>So one of the sad legacies was, you know, we

0:38:40.600 --> 0:38:42.359
<v Speaker 1>said at the beginning that what they wanted to do

0:38:42.560 --> 0:38:45.000
<v Speaker 1>was one of their big goals was to seat the

0:38:45.040 --> 0:38:49.240
<v Speaker 1>Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party at that sixty four convention in August,

0:38:50.000 --> 0:38:52.600
<v Speaker 1>and they won a public hearing which was a big

0:38:52.600 --> 0:38:55.400
<v Speaker 1>win in and of itself with the DNC committee that

0:38:55.440 --> 0:38:59.360
<v Speaker 1>was broadcast on live TV. The widow of Michael Schwerner

0:38:59.560 --> 0:39:03.040
<v Speaker 1>showed up talk, doctor Martin Luther King Junior showed up

0:39:03.040 --> 0:39:06.200
<v Speaker 1>to talk. And the last one and this is just

0:39:07.600 --> 0:39:11.200
<v Speaker 1>very sad and shameful. The last speaker and they said

0:39:11.719 --> 0:39:14.400
<v Speaker 1>Dave describes her as the most dangerous to that democratic

0:39:14.480 --> 0:39:18.640
<v Speaker 1>establishment was a former sharecropper named Fanny lou Hamer.

0:39:18.880 --> 0:39:22.000
<v Speaker 2>Did you see her testimony? Yeah, she was as brave

0:39:22.040 --> 0:39:22.600
<v Speaker 2>as they come.

0:39:22.760 --> 0:39:24.760
<v Speaker 1>She was as brave as they come, but her brave

0:39:25.080 --> 0:39:29.840
<v Speaker 1>and pissed. Yeah. But her testimony was interrupted on national

0:39:29.880 --> 0:39:32.759
<v Speaker 1>TV by President Lyndon Johnson. He called an impromptu press

0:39:32.800 --> 0:39:36.279
<v Speaker 1>conference in the middle of her testimony. So all the

0:39:36.320 --> 0:39:38.279
<v Speaker 1>TV breaks away, of course, because the president has a

0:39:38.280 --> 0:39:40.879
<v Speaker 1>press conference they need to get to, and everyone was thinking,

0:39:40.920 --> 0:39:43.160
<v Speaker 1>all right, this is big news. He's going to announce

0:39:43.200 --> 0:39:45.760
<v Speaker 1>his VP pick for the sixty four election or something

0:39:45.800 --> 0:39:48.239
<v Speaker 1>like that, and he basically got on TV and sort

0:39:48.280 --> 0:39:51.719
<v Speaker 1>of ad libbed had Today is the nine month anniversary

0:39:51.719 --> 0:39:56.440
<v Speaker 1>of the assassination of JFK, and black people all around

0:39:56.440 --> 0:39:59.279
<v Speaker 1>the country and white liberal progressives are going, what's a

0:39:59.360 --> 0:40:01.759
<v Speaker 1>nine month in her? Like? Are you kidding me?

0:40:02.000 --> 0:40:07.120
<v Speaker 2>Not just liberals and civil rights activists, but the news

0:40:07.200 --> 0:40:10.440
<v Speaker 2>too saw right through. Oh and it actually backfired because

0:40:11.400 --> 0:40:16.759
<v Speaker 2>Johnson interrupting Fanny lou Hamer became news itself, and so

0:40:16.880 --> 0:40:20.440
<v Speaker 2>Fanny lou Hamer's testimony stayed on the news for days afterward,

0:40:20.840 --> 0:40:25.160
<v Speaker 2>got way more exposure because of Johnson's clumsy, ham fisted attempt.

0:40:25.640 --> 0:40:28.040
<v Speaker 2>And the reason why her testimony and the idea of

0:40:28.080 --> 0:40:33.719
<v Speaker 2>a Mississippi Democratic Freedom Party was a it was a

0:40:33.760 --> 0:40:38.239
<v Speaker 2>threat to the Democrats was because if you got rid

0:40:38.320 --> 0:40:41.280
<v Speaker 2>of the Dixiecrats, if you forced integration on the South,

0:40:41.960 --> 0:40:43.799
<v Speaker 2>you were going to lose the solid South. The South

0:40:43.840 --> 0:40:47.320
<v Speaker 2>had always voted Democrats because they hated the Republicans, because

0:40:47.360 --> 0:40:49.920
<v Speaker 2>the Republicans were the party of Lincoln, who forced reconstruction

0:40:50.000 --> 0:40:53.000
<v Speaker 2>on them. So reconstruction comes along and all of the

0:40:53.040 --> 0:40:56.600
<v Speaker 2>Southerners went Democrat and they formed the Dixiecrats right well.

0:40:56.640 --> 0:41:01.000
<v Speaker 2>When Johnson signed the Civil Rights Amendment in nineteen sixty,

0:41:01.040 --> 0:41:05.080
<v Speaker 2>he said to an aid, we just handed the South

0:41:05.160 --> 0:41:08.399
<v Speaker 2>to the Republicans for a very long time. And it's

0:41:08.440 --> 0:41:11.759
<v Speaker 2>still the case still today. You are hard pressed to

0:41:11.760 --> 0:41:15.960
<v Speaker 2>find a county in the South that's blue. They're all red.

0:41:16.280 --> 0:41:17.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well that's not quite true, but.

0:41:17.800 --> 0:41:21.560
<v Speaker 2>No, it's one hundred percent. But I mean, okay, let

0:41:21.560 --> 0:41:22.120
<v Speaker 2>me put it this way.

0:41:22.120 --> 0:41:23.479
<v Speaker 1>Atlanta is as blue as blue gets.

0:41:24.040 --> 0:41:25.879
<v Speaker 2>But how many Atlanta's are there in the South.

0:41:26.000 --> 0:41:28.279
<v Speaker 1>No, that's I'm saying, you know, like anywhere else the

0:41:28.400 --> 0:41:31.960
<v Speaker 1>urban centers, sure, or where the blues are, but.

0:41:31.960 --> 0:41:35.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean like the north, the northern and southern suburbs,

0:41:35.880 --> 0:41:36.480
<v Speaker 2>they're all red.

0:41:36.640 --> 0:41:36.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:41:37.000 --> 0:41:38.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean, Atlanta's like a little island of blue and

0:41:39.520 --> 0:41:40.200
<v Speaker 2>the thing are red.

0:41:40.360 --> 0:41:40.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:41:41.280 --> 0:41:43.239
<v Speaker 2>It's just weird to think that that's the legacy of

0:41:43.560 --> 0:41:44.200
<v Speaker 2>this this.

0:41:44.280 --> 0:41:50.600
<v Speaker 1>Time still yeah. Yeah. So some of these students ended

0:41:50.680 --> 0:41:54.000
<v Speaker 1>up to go on and do great, great things, I think,

0:41:54.080 --> 0:41:55.480
<v Speaker 1>dare I say many of them went on to do

0:41:55.520 --> 0:41:58.359
<v Speaker 1>great things on a smaller scale, but some were sort

0:41:58.400 --> 0:42:01.680
<v Speaker 1>of known nationally and were pioneers in the black community.

0:42:02.000 --> 0:42:05.200
<v Speaker 1>One man, Eddie James Carthan, he was the first black

0:42:05.239 --> 0:42:09.759
<v Speaker 1>mayor in the Mississippi Delta, a very very big deal.

0:42:09.800 --> 0:42:11.640
<v Speaker 1>He was elected mayor at the age of twenty eight.

0:42:13.160 --> 0:42:15.279
<v Speaker 2>Which I mean back then though twenty eight was like

0:42:15.520 --> 0:42:20.640
<v Speaker 2>fifty today. Really sure, you know, aging's really regressed since then.

0:42:21.360 --> 0:42:27.000
<v Speaker 1>And we talked earlier about the fact that these schools continue.

0:42:27.480 --> 0:42:30.799
<v Speaker 1>They only operated in nineteen sixty four, but a few

0:42:30.840 --> 0:42:33.799
<v Speaker 1>of them were transformed into Freedom Centers and they were

0:42:33.800 --> 0:42:38.440
<v Speaker 1>meeting places for the Mississippi Student Union. They were community

0:42:38.440 --> 0:42:42.959
<v Speaker 1>meeting places, educational resources. Kindergartens would go there during the day,

0:42:43.239 --> 0:42:46.319
<v Speaker 1>they would have adult classes at night. And in the

0:42:46.400 --> 0:42:50.200
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighties is when the Children's Defense Fund created its

0:42:50.200 --> 0:42:52.720
<v Speaker 1>own version of the Freedom Schools. All those years later

0:42:53.200 --> 0:42:55.759
<v Speaker 1>and they now operate in eighty seven cities across twenty

0:42:55.840 --> 0:42:59.600
<v Speaker 1>eight states, with their main focus being literacy.

0:43:00.000 --> 0:43:00.680
<v Speaker 2>It's pretty great.

0:43:00.719 --> 0:43:03.279
<v Speaker 1>But they still honor their African heritage because the school

0:43:03.360 --> 0:43:09.200
<v Speaker 1>day begins with a Harambi, traditional African welcoming celebration with

0:43:09.360 --> 0:43:10.800
<v Speaker 1>songs and chants.

0:43:10.640 --> 0:43:13.319
<v Speaker 2>That goes a little something like go on over to

0:43:13.360 --> 0:43:17.719
<v Speaker 2>the fridge. Have you noticed like it's kind of transformed

0:43:17.719 --> 0:43:20.680
<v Speaker 2>into singing. It was talking before you're ditching your lou

0:43:20.680 --> 0:43:24.759
<v Speaker 2>read this, I guess so of outgrowing them. Well, if

0:43:24.800 --> 0:43:26.960
<v Speaker 2>you want to know more about freedom schools, there's a

0:43:27.160 --> 0:43:30.000
<v Speaker 2>lot of it archived out there on the internet, and

0:43:30.040 --> 0:43:32.080
<v Speaker 2>you could do a lot worse than starting out at

0:43:32.120 --> 0:43:35.840
<v Speaker 2>the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee's digital archives. They've got a

0:43:35.840 --> 0:43:39.000
<v Speaker 2>lot of cool stuff on there. It's just really really

0:43:39.000 --> 0:43:42.360
<v Speaker 2>well done, nice short, punchy articles that link to the

0:43:42.400 --> 0:43:44.360
<v Speaker 2>next thing and the next thing and just make you

0:43:44.400 --> 0:43:48.200
<v Speaker 2>want to keep reading. Well, since I said Student Nonviolent

0:43:48.280 --> 0:43:50.399
<v Speaker 2>Coordinating Committee, it's time for a listener man.

0:43:52.840 --> 0:43:56.319
<v Speaker 1>So this was the This is the gentleman who wrote in.

0:43:56.360 --> 0:43:58.080
<v Speaker 1>We had a few people that wrote in trying to

0:43:58.600 --> 0:44:00.680
<v Speaker 1>explain our confusion on do process.

0:44:01.239 --> 0:44:02.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh is this the guy? I was like?

0:44:04.280 --> 0:44:05.520
<v Speaker 1>Which one was that in? That was in?

0:44:06.640 --> 0:44:09.280
<v Speaker 2>It was in Perophilius paraphilius as we were talking about

0:44:09.480 --> 0:44:12.879
<v Speaker 2>like people going to prison for gay sex in their

0:44:12.880 --> 0:44:17.360
<v Speaker 2>own home right consenting in Texas in the twenty first century.

0:44:17.400 --> 0:44:20.120
<v Speaker 1>And this is from Keith from Philadelphia, not a calm

0:44:20.200 --> 0:44:22.640
<v Speaker 1>law professor. Guys just a law student, but I thought

0:44:22.680 --> 0:44:25.480
<v Speaker 1>it could help clear this up. In the Lawrence v.

0:44:25.600 --> 0:44:29.640
<v Speaker 1>Texas due Process point, due process is essentially broken up

0:44:29.640 --> 0:44:32.960
<v Speaker 1>into two prongs procedural procedural.

0:44:33.840 --> 0:44:35.840
<v Speaker 2>That's a good three year olds.

0:44:36.239 --> 0:44:41.880
<v Speaker 1>Procedural and substantive. Did I say that right? Sub Procedural

0:44:42.000 --> 0:44:45.240
<v Speaker 1>due process is exactly what Josh was talking about. Provides

0:44:45.280 --> 0:44:50.000
<v Speaker 1>you notice an opportunity to be heard before rights are

0:44:50.000 --> 0:44:53.600
<v Speaker 1>taken away from you. Substantive due process is what the

0:44:53.680 --> 0:44:57.239
<v Speaker 1>court was referring to, and Lawrence the concept is somewhat complicated,

0:44:57.239 --> 0:45:01.600
<v Speaker 1>but simply stated, Substantive due process means certain rights that

0:45:01.640 --> 0:45:05.520
<v Speaker 1>are so fundamental that no amount of process or procedure

0:45:06.000 --> 0:45:09.320
<v Speaker 1>could ever legitimately deprive you of them. In other words,

0:45:09.600 --> 0:45:13.239
<v Speaker 1>consenting adults have such a fundamental right to privacy behind

0:45:13.280 --> 0:45:16.200
<v Speaker 1>closed doors that to punish them for having consensual sex

0:45:16.480 --> 0:45:19.279
<v Speaker 1>will violate their due process rights, no matter how much

0:45:19.360 --> 0:45:20.680
<v Speaker 1>procedure they are afforded.

0:45:21.040 --> 0:45:21.360
<v Speaker 2>Got it?

0:45:21.680 --> 0:45:24.279
<v Speaker 1>Yea? That is as clear as bell guys here, as.

0:45:24.200 --> 0:45:28.000
<v Speaker 2>Belle future law professor, I'm.

0:45:27.800 --> 0:45:30.040
<v Speaker 1>Losing it here. Thank you Keith from Philly.

0:45:30.719 --> 0:45:33.960
<v Speaker 2>Thank you Keith. That was a I mean, I emailed

0:45:33.960 --> 0:45:35.960
<v Speaker 2>them immediately. It's like a lot of people have written

0:45:35.960 --> 0:45:37.960
<v Speaker 2>and thanks to everybody wrote in and get wrote a shot.

0:45:38.880 --> 0:45:40.799
<v Speaker 2>But I emailed them back and was like, Keith, this

0:45:40.920 --> 0:45:42.600
<v Speaker 2>is the first one I've fully gotten.

0:45:43.000 --> 0:45:44.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Keith, and I think if you stroll on over

0:45:44.960 --> 0:45:47.920
<v Speaker 1>to your refrigerator you will find a frozen snicker bar

0:45:47.960 --> 0:45:49.960
<v Speaker 1>waiting on you. Yeah, because we snuck into your home

0:45:50.000 --> 0:45:50.520
<v Speaker 1>in the middle of the.

0:45:50.520 --> 0:45:53.000
<v Speaker 2>Night, where as Chuck would say, a floes in one.

0:45:53.800 --> 0:45:55.040
<v Speaker 2>If you want to get in touch of this, like

0:45:55.160 --> 0:45:56.799
<v Speaker 2>Keith did, you can go on to stuff you Should

0:45:56.840 --> 0:45:58.719
<v Speaker 2>Know dot com and check out our social links, or

0:45:58.760 --> 0:46:00.680
<v Speaker 2>you can send us a good old fast email, wrap

0:46:00.680 --> 0:46:04.000
<v Speaker 2>it up, spank it on the bottom, maybe send it

0:46:04.040 --> 0:46:07.640
<v Speaker 2>along with the frozen stickerbar to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio

0:46:07.680 --> 0:46:10.880
<v Speaker 2>dot com.

0:46:12.000 --> 0:46:14.880
<v Speaker 1>Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

0:46:14.960 --> 0:46:19.160
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