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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ethan Nadelman, and this is Psychoactive, a production

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Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Protozoa Pictures. Psychoactive is the

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Speaker 1: show where we talk about all things drugs. But any

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Speaker 1: views expressed here do not represent those of I Heart Media,

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Speaker 1: Protozoa Pictures, or their executives and employees, and d Heat.

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Speaker 1: As an inveterate contrarian, I can tell you they may

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Speaker 1: not even represent my own and nothing contained in this

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Speaker 1: show should be used as medical advice or encouragement to

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Speaker 1: use any type of drug. One of the most popular

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Speaker 1: episodes the Psychoactive to date has been the one where

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Speaker 1: I invited my friend Julie Holland to service my co

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Speaker 1: host and answer questions with me from you the audience.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to record another one of those episodes,

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Speaker 1: and we need your questions. Leave us a voicemail with

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Speaker 1: a question as d he tells us possible at one

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Speaker 1: eight three, three seven, seven nine sixty, or you can

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Speaker 1: record a voice memo and send it to Psychoactive at

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Speaker 1: protozoa dot com. I'm sure it's going to be a

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Speaker 1: great second go with this. Hello, Psychoactive listeners. So our

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Speaker 1: guest today is Congresswoman Nancy Mays. She's a freshman member

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Speaker 1: of Congress, she's a Republican, and she's recently introduced a

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Speaker 1: bill to legalize marijuana at the federal level. Now, before

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Speaker 1: I asked her to join us, I wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: briefly with Kyle Jaeger, a journalist for the online publication

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Speaker 1: Marijuana Moment who's been covering developments on Capitol Hill regarding marijuana. So, Kyle,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining me on Psychoactive. So here's

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Speaker 1: Nancy Mays my guest today, who's introduced, you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: marijuana legalization bill. First Republican, I think, first Republican to

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Speaker 1: introduce such a bill and starting to be running with it.

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Speaker 1: But there's other bills out there. Is There is that

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Speaker 1: Schumer Bill, there is the Jerry Nadler More Act, or

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Speaker 1: Safe Banking. What is the state of play? Can you

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Speaker 1: tell us first on the marijuana legalization bills before we

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Speaker 1: get into the banking stuff. So we do have these

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Speaker 1: three major bills in play. Um. I think the more

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Speaker 1: momentum that this issue has generated, the more we've seen

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Speaker 1: divergent and increasingly bipartisan ideas about what a legalization framework

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Speaker 1: should look like, and so you do have the bill

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Speaker 1: from House Street to share you, Chairman jer Nadler Um,

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Speaker 1: the Marijuana Opportunity, Reinvestment and Expungement Act or the MORE Act,

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Speaker 1: which cleared the House historically in December and has since

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Speaker 1: passed a committee this session in September one. Um. And

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Speaker 1: then like you said, we have the bill from Senate

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Speaker 1: Majority Leader Chuck Schumer um the KAWA or the Cannabis

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Speaker 1: Administration and Opportunity Act, which we saw a draft version

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Speaker 1: of that released last year and uh, and the Leader

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Speaker 1: has talked about introducing it hopefully in in April. But

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Speaker 1: then as you as as you mentioned, we had this

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Speaker 1: Republican lead bill sponsored by Congresswoman Nancy Maze, her State

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Speaker 1: Reforms Act, which really generated a lot of excitement just

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Speaker 1: you know, by virtue of a Republican leading on this

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Speaker 1: issue is you know, the main point there, and you

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Speaker 1: saw cannabis stocks immediate rally. But in any case, you know,

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Speaker 1: we don't we don't have the text of the Schoomer

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Speaker 1: Bill yet, so it's kind of hard to say where

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Speaker 1: you know, votes might lie on that issue. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: those are the three main bills, and and they're fundamentally

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Speaker 1: fairly similar. I mean all of them would remove marijuana

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Speaker 1: from the Controlled Substances Act, they would deschedule it so

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Speaker 1: that would enforce legalization on states. And then where they

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Speaker 1: diverge is on you know, tax revenue issues. You know,

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Speaker 1: who should be in charge of regulating the market, where

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Speaker 1: would revenue go toward? UM. It's very NUANCEDNT, but like

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Speaker 1: the overall objectives are are ultimately I would say the

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Speaker 1: same UM. And so then you know, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: there's a Safe Banking Act which would very simply provide

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Speaker 1: protections for financial institutions that work with state legal cannabis

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Speaker 1: businesses against being penalized by federal regulators. And so that's

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Speaker 1: viewed as a more industry friendly incremental reform. Although you

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Speaker 1: know it's it's chief sponsor in the House, Congressman pro

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Speaker 1: Motter has really made a point to to stress, hey,

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Speaker 1: this bill is also about equity, you know, providing you know,

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Speaker 1: provides opportunities and avenues for small and minority owned businesses

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Speaker 1: to get the capital to participate in the market, which

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Speaker 1: would help reduce this disparity that we've seen not just

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Speaker 1: under critinalization but even in legal markets. And so the

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Speaker 1: momentum here is clear. The fact that you're seeing this

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Speaker 1: increasing bipartisan interest like that's that's a really encouraging sign

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Speaker 1: for stakeholders, for advocates, for everyone. But that means more opinions,

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Speaker 1: and that means coming up with passible legislation might be

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Speaker 1: might become a little bit more complicated the more actor

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Speaker 1: Nadler's bill that passed a couple of years ago, I

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Speaker 1: think with all but five or six Democrats on board

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Speaker 1: and all but five or six Republicans against, do you

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Speaker 1: think it's going to pass by somewhat similar margins this

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Speaker 1: time around, I would predict so, if not a little

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Speaker 1: bit more. I mean they've had more time to digest

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Speaker 1: to the various provisions and more time to to consider,

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Speaker 1: you know, what this reform would accomplish, and the odds

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Speaker 1: or that could happen sometime in March of this year.

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Speaker 1: That's what we're hearing. Yeah, we're hearing that the floor

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Speaker 1: votes on the more, which would be the second time

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Speaker 1: that it's reached the House floor, will be aligned fairly

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Speaker 1: similarly with the formal introduction of the Schumer Senate version

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Speaker 1: there Kawa call you use the acronym before Kawa. What

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Speaker 1: does that mean, the KAWA is the bill from Majority

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Speaker 1: Leeker Schumer, the Cannabis Administration and Opportunity Act. As for

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Speaker 1: the Senate bill, what's the prospects with that going forward?

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Speaker 1: It's hard to make any kind of predictions about what's

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Speaker 1: achievable in the Senate. I would say we're likely looking

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Speaker 1: at requiring sixty votes here, and there's been earlier reporting

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Speaker 1: on some moderate Democrats still expressing some level of skepticism

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Speaker 1: about the just the very concept of legalization. But I

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Speaker 1: think will understand a little bit more of the breakdown

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Speaker 1: once we actually see the legislation like filed at. Schumer

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Speaker 1: and his colleagues have been engaging very actively with advocates

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Speaker 1: and stakeholders as they find wise this legislation. So I think, well,

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Speaker 1: we'll know more in April. And can you imagine any Republicans,

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Speaker 1: I mean the Alaska Senator Murkowski or anybody actually signing

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Speaker 1: onto it. I could see that's just without the actual text.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of the go to response from from these

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Speaker 1: you know, both on the fence Democrats and Republican senators.

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Speaker 1: You know they need to see the bill text before

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Speaker 1: they make a decision. But I do think, you know,

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Speaker 1: the just the fact that we have a Republican led

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Speaker 1: alternative introduced in you know, building the momentum in gaining interest.

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Speaker 1: It shows that, you know, there is an avenue potentially

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Speaker 1: maybe room for compromise um as they merge or discuss

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Speaker 1: the opportunities to incorporate different provisions of these varying bills.

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Speaker 1: It seems like a major divide between Democrats and Republicans

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Speaker 1: is that the Democratic bills really insist on racial equity

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Speaker 1: measures being included, or the Republicans really get their backs

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Speaker 1: up against anything like that. Is that your perception, I

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Speaker 1: think so. I think that's right. This has been an

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Speaker 1: ongoing conversation like as they've as they've drafted this. I

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Speaker 1: think that the more focus that you put on equity provisions,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's this calculus of, you know, how much

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Speaker 1: Republican support might you be losing. I think Congressman Matt

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Speaker 1: Gates has kind of articulated that position on these more

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Speaker 1: Cannabis friendly members of Congress um. He was one of

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Speaker 1: the republic Republicans who voted for the More Act, but

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Speaker 1: expressed a lot of skepticism about the extent to which

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Speaker 1: it addresses and and provides funding for these equity provisions

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Speaker 1: that advocates are really pushing for. Whereas the mace bill,

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Speaker 1: you know, has attracted both It has attracted by partisans

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Speaker 1: support but hers. But it's a lot of focus on

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Speaker 1: respecting state autonomy and making sure that they're the industries

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Speaker 1: that they've built over time, and so that's an appealing

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Speaker 1: point for for both parties. I think. I think Nancy

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Speaker 1: Macee has only attracted a half dozen or so co

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Speaker 1: sponsors among the Republicans, and she says she wants to

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Speaker 1: focus there before going on to Democrats. What's your broader

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Speaker 1: take on where the Republicans are in the House. I mean,

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Speaker 1: are there in fact? You think many dozens who would

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Speaker 1: support marijuana legalization if it was Masis bill as opposed

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Speaker 1: to a Democratic bill. That's sort to say, I mean it.

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Speaker 1: I think that Republicans might be more inclined to support

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Speaker 1: something that was very very bare bones that, you know,

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Speaker 1: something like a simple de scheduling bill that would promove

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Speaker 1: cannabis from Schedule one. But her bill, you know, is

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Speaker 1: being pitched as this middle ground approach, you know, a

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Speaker 1: lower tax rate than some of the Democratic lead bills

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Speaker 1: that we're talking about out and like I said, a

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Speaker 1: more industry focused approach to these this issue. So in

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Speaker 1: terms of dozens of Republicans, you know, I I'd be

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Speaker 1: skeptical about that, but I do think that she's done

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Speaker 1: a good job of of of towing the line on this.

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Speaker 1: It seemed like Nancy Mace came out of almost nowhere

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Speaker 1: to introduce this bill and nobody was expecting it. Why

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Speaker 1: do you think she's doing it and what's your sense

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Speaker 1: of how other Republicans are responding. I think that Nancy

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Speaker 1: Mace has has done in you know, and she has

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Speaker 1: a history both in the South Carolina legislature of of

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Speaker 1: of backing medical cannabis reforms, so she's familiar with this issue.

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Speaker 1: I think she, like many of her colleagues, recognized the

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Speaker 1: unpopularity of criminalization and she sees this opportunity to to

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Speaker 1: take the lead on something that might you know, hopefully

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Speaker 1: be passable from from her perspective legislation. Why do you

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Speaker 1: think so many Republicans remain opposed even when you have

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Speaker 1: polls showing a majority of Republicans at a strong majority

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Speaker 1: of young Republicans in favor. That is the million dollar question, Ethan.

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Speaker 1: You know, I can't I can't say. I mean, it's perplexing.

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Speaker 1: It's you know, there can they hear from their constituents.

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Speaker 1: They they see these the same pollings that we're we're

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Speaker 1: covering and following and um, and so it's you know,

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Speaker 1: Congress has always been a few steps behind the public

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Speaker 1: on on this issue, but it's just so overwhelming and

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Speaker 1: increasingly bipartisan that it's hard to square any signs that

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Speaker 1: Biden and the White House might get more supportive this year.

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Speaker 1: I don't think so. I mean, the last time that

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Speaker 1: I remember, Fresh Secretary Saki asked about this, she she

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Speaker 1: made it very clear the president's position on this issue

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Speaker 1: has not changed. And it's you know, perplexing by the

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Speaker 1: fact that you've seen within this first year of him

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Speaker 1: in office unfulfilled promises on more modest and incremental reforms,

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Speaker 1: whether that's hardens for for people in federal prison for

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Speaker 1: past cannabis convictions, or you know, taking steps to at

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Speaker 1: the very least rescheduled cannabis as he promised to do

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Speaker 1: on the campaign trail. It doesn't exactly give a lot

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Speaker 1: of hope that there's gonna be a one eight here

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Speaker 1: and he's gonna openly and publicly back this issue, let

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Speaker 1: alone fulfill the more modest reforms that he campaigned. Well, Kyle,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me on Psychoactive, and

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Speaker 1: I just have to say that the writing that you

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Speaker 1: and the co founder and your co editor of Marijuana Moment,

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Speaker 1: Tom Angel had been doing and covering marijuana issues, including

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Speaker 1: Capitol Hill, has been immensely helpful to me, and I

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Speaker 1: encourage our listeners to subscribe and take a look at

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Speaker 1: Marijuana Moment if you want to follow this. Thank you

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Speaker 1: very very much. Thank you for having me. We'll be

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Speaker 1: talking more after we hear this ADM. Well, now that

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Speaker 1: Kyle has provided the broader context for us, I want

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Speaker 1: to invite on Congressmen Mace to talk about the marijuana

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Speaker 1: bill she's introducing Congress, why she did it it, and

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Speaker 1: how's it going. So Cosman Mace, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me on Psychoactive, and thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: You know, I feel like cannabis the only place is

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Speaker 1: really controversials in d C. I don't know why we

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Speaker 1: haven't done it yet, and it's one of my it's

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Speaker 1: a big frustration of mine in Congress, So tell me

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Speaker 1: why you did it. I have been a supporter of

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Speaker 1: cannabis reform. Long before I went to Congress, I was

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Speaker 1: a state lawmaker for a few years, and in South

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Speaker 1: Carolina there's been a push for medical cannabis, and I

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Speaker 1: was one of the co sponsors when I was in

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Speaker 1: the state legislature. But this goes back further than that.

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Speaker 1: When I was young and growing up, I was sixteen

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Speaker 1: and I was raped by a classmate of mine in school,

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Speaker 1: and I dropped out of school, out of high school

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Speaker 1: shortly thereafter, and I had a lot of issues trying

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Speaker 1: to overcome the trauma that I had been through, and

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Speaker 1: I was prescribed antidepressants at the time, and not long

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Speaker 1: into that um, I felt like the prescription drugs I

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Speaker 1: was given was making my depression actually worse and making

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Speaker 1: me feel suicidal, and so I stopped taking the medicine

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Speaker 1: that was prescribed by my doctor and I started using

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Speaker 1: cannabis unbeknownst to me because I was young, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I didn't really know a lot about it, but it

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Speaker 1: cut my anxiety and helped me get through some really

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Speaker 1: really difficult times emotionally, mentally, physically in my life. And

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Speaker 1: I use it for a limited period of time, but

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Speaker 1: I saw the benefits that it had, you know, with

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Speaker 1: moderate use for me personally to get through those times.

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Speaker 1: It was better than doing other drugs and drinking, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: But it got me through and cut my anxiety and

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Speaker 1: helped me manage some of the feelings that I had

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Speaker 1: in order to survive basically this really traumatic period of

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Speaker 1: my life. I mean, how did you even come up

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Speaker 1: with the idea to try cannabis back then? I mean

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Speaker 1: it was a friends who suggested it, or had you

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Speaker 1: read about it or what was key? No, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was just I needed something to get through the

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Speaker 1: challenges that I had and then I faced and I

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Speaker 1: had access to it and I used it. And you know,

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Speaker 1: at the time it was really young. But you know,

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Speaker 1: you sort of I'm forty four now and you look

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Speaker 1: back on your life and you understand why some of

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Speaker 1: the experiences that you have. But emotionally, like, for instance,

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Speaker 1: I'm only passionate about veterans issues, and so when I

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Speaker 1: talked about veterans, about PTSD and the high rate of suicides, like,

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Speaker 1: I feel that pain because I've been in that pain.

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Speaker 1: I felt those kinds of emotions, and so for me,

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Speaker 1: it's an issue that I'm personally very passionate about but

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Speaker 1: you sort of learn it by trial and error, right

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Speaker 1: for me anyway back in those days, which is one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons. You know, if you want to study

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Speaker 1: it thoroughly for medical if you want to study at

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Speaker 1: marijuana for medical purposes, you've got to reschedule it. And

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Speaker 1: to deschedule it, you have to decriminalize it. There's a

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Speaker 1: whole process here that has to happen. And so it's

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons I'm just so passionate about getting

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Speaker 1: this done and doing it in a way that respects

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Speaker 1: the rights of states because every state is different and

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Speaker 1: it's kind of a patchwork, and ensure that we have

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Speaker 1: comprehensive legislation that has something for both Republicans and Democrats

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Speaker 1: in there that we can work on it together. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to prove that it can be done well before

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Speaker 1: we get into the bill itself. I just want to

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Speaker 1: have another sort of personal question, which is you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you first came to some tension in the

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Speaker 1: media years ago because you were the first woman to

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Speaker 1: graduate in the Core Kids program at South Carolina is

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Speaker 1: state funded military college to Citadel, but also your father

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Speaker 1: is a general he was the head, the commander, I

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Speaker 1: guess at the citadel at that time. He's a highly

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Speaker 1: decorated Vietnam War veteran, he's a former general. How did

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Speaker 1: your dad respond to a you're doing that when you

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Speaker 1: were a teenager recovering from the rape and also more recently,

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Speaker 1: how does he feel? And even as part of that,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious about how other people in the middity mean,

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Speaker 1: you obviously been part of this kind of military world

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Speaker 1: in at least indirectly for quite some time. What kind

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Speaker 1: of reaction do you get from your father and from

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Speaker 1: others in that world? You know, if when it comes

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Speaker 1: to veterans issues in cannabis, my father, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: sort of he has mixed feelings about it. He's sort

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Speaker 1: of more traditional and and is and I think more

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Speaker 1: concerned about I think long term effects and whether or

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Speaker 1: not it's a it's a gateway product or not. I

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Speaker 1: do know that he has been supportive of CBD in

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Speaker 1: South Carolina, but when it comes to products with TCH,

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Speaker 1: he's got more hesitation. And he's older, he's what is

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Speaker 1: eighty two, But my mom, who's eighties, she's like, if

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Speaker 1: I ever get sick, please you know, she is, you know,

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Speaker 1: much more supportive, and she understands the federalism part of it,

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Speaker 1: in the states rights part of it. And so in

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Speaker 1: my house with my parents is sort of a toss up,

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Speaker 1: I guess. And so I'm gonna take that as a win.

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Speaker 1: If my father, who is eighty two and sort of

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Speaker 1: twenty eight years in the military, and then my mom,

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Speaker 1: this retired school teacher, I'll take that as as a win.

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Speaker 1: And but you know, I leaned in on this issue.

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Speaker 1: I lean in on issues I really care about. You know,

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Speaker 1: I endorsed cannabis when I was running for this seat

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Speaker 1: in the general election. I means something that I ran on.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's bullshit that when you hear people

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Speaker 1: run for office and they say they care about these

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Speaker 1: things and they're going to do something about it, and

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Speaker 1: then they don't do anything about it. And this is

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Speaker 1: an easy win. I mean, this is not difficult. This

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Speaker 1: is something that the vast majority of Americans, Republican or Democrat,

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Speaker 1: they support. I mean, I've seen the data I've pulled.

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Speaker 1: I've even my own district, and I've seen statewide South

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Speaker 1: Khanta data. But even in like bright red South Carolina,

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Speaker 1: this is a hugely popular issue, and with veterans, but

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Speaker 1: with people from all walks of life, all colors, all

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Speaker 1: zip codes, all income levels. This should not be a

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Speaker 1: difficult thing to do. And I think my dad understands

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Speaker 1: like the PTSD side of it. I mean, he's seen

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Speaker 1: it firsthand too, and I think he understands that part

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Speaker 1: of it and why I'm passionate. But he doesn't like

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Speaker 1: me leaning in on things that he thinks are controversial.

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Speaker 1: I see. I think it's for Republicans, especially when we

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Speaker 1: are so divisive, we have to find places to lean

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Speaker 1: in we can bring people together. And I've done a

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Speaker 1: lot a lot of work on Dr Fauci's abuses with

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Speaker 1: beagle puppies and labs, and I've done a lot of

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Speaker 1: cannabis work, and those are places that I've found far

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Speaker 1: right or far left people agree and it shouldn't be difficult.

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Speaker 1: This is a multi billion dollar industry and it shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be that difficult of affix. And certain candidates ran on

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Speaker 1: it and it didn't do anything about it, which is

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Speaker 1: why I think I've taken the wind out of a

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Speaker 1: lot of people's sales on the issue because we're doing it.

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Speaker 1: I love the fact that you've introduced this bill, and

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Speaker 1: you know it's got a lot of something that's obviously

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Speaker 1: the Schumer Bill out there with you, with Booker and Widen.

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Speaker 1: And then there's Jerry Nadler's More Act in the House,

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Speaker 1: which is probably gonna come up been March and could

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Speaker 1: pass in a very partisan vote. Right. I think the

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Speaker 1: last time that the More Act went through, I think

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Speaker 1: only a half dozen Democrats voted against it. Only half

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Speaker 1: dozen Republicans voted in favor of Schumer doesn't even have

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Speaker 1: enough Democrats to get this thing through, and it's unlikely

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Speaker 1: that almost any Republicans will support it. You've put this

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Speaker 1: thing out there, right, and I'm just understand it. Like

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Speaker 1: both your bills and Schumer's bills, they both remove marijuanna

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Speaker 1: from controlled Subsidact. They both end the federal ban on marijuana.

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Speaker 1: They both allow the states to create implement their cannabis laws.

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Speaker 1: They both make provisions for interstate cannabis commerce. They both

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Speaker 1: allow cannabis company success traditional financial systems. You've made clear

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Speaker 1: you want to lower tax. You put some other provisions

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Speaker 1: in there. You said you want this to be a

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Speaker 1: talking point. You've also said that you that You've talked

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Speaker 1: to some Democrats who have said that you could you'll

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Speaker 1: get a hearing on this, and I wonder is that

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Speaker 1: going to happen, And is there any kind of quid

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Speaker 1: pro quo where you might vote for the More Act

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Speaker 1: and return for getting a hearing. No, I didn't have

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Speaker 1: to do. There was no quid pro quo and getting

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Speaker 1: a hearing. Personally, you know, I want to respect the

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Speaker 1: process and more is going to come up again, and

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Speaker 1: let let Democrats do More Act. It will die in

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Speaker 1: the Senate, and so when that's done, we will do

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Speaker 1: our hearing. And um, there was nothing done in exchange

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Speaker 1: for it. I just made the ask, and uh, we're

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Speaker 1: making it happen. I mean, that's the thing. Like when

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Speaker 1: I ran for office, one of the things I said,

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Speaker 1: I would be willing to work with anyone who is

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Speaker 1: willing to work with me. And as a freshman Republican

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Speaker 1: in the minority, I passed three bills out of the

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Speaker 1: floor of the House last year, and so I have

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Speaker 1: a precedent of reaching across sale where I find agreement

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Speaker 1: with the other side and working together. And one of

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Speaker 1: the recent things I heard about Schumer's bill, which is

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Speaker 1: very encouraging is that he wants to treat cannabis like alcohol,

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Speaker 1: which is what my bill does, and that is a

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Speaker 1: very promising prospect. His taxes are too high, it'll fail.

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Speaker 1: In that regard. Everything is negotiable except for the taxation

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Speaker 1: part of it, because if you don't have a very

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Speaker 1: low futile exercise tax, you're only going to guarantee an

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Speaker 1: illicit market. And we've seen that in other states where

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Speaker 1: state taxes are just way too high, where their implementation

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Speaker 1: of cannabis reforms has been troublesome because they're just tax

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Speaker 1: it way too high and they're like an organized for example,

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Speaker 1: the black markets run wild. And you want to make

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Speaker 1: sure that there are provisions in there where taxes are low,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's where you can get Republicans on board.

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Speaker 1: And then my bill too has some expungement and release,

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Speaker 1: which is important, social equities important. I don't have that

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Speaker 1: in there, but I leave it up to the states

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Speaker 1: to determine if and how and when and where they

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Speaker 1: do that sort of thing. It's very much federalism driven,

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Speaker 1: states rights driven, which is a hugely popular Republican ideal.

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Speaker 1: On the same hand, if you can take that republican

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Speaker 1: ideal and work with Democrats, which you know, cannabis legalization

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Speaker 1: is popular everywhere its democrats. I mean, it's the best

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Speaker 1: of both worlds. And so you've gotta respect what states

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Speaker 1: are doing, because there are only three states in the

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Speaker 1: country that have zero cannabis reforms whatsoever. And so for

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Speaker 1: an example, when I use that statistic, like my state

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Speaker 1: has CBD and him I'm using that is one of

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Speaker 1: the forty seven states, and then Florida has medical and

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Speaker 1: you know we have other states with full adult use,

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Speaker 1: and so every state is different and we respect that patchwork,

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Speaker 1: but have the you have to have interstate commerce constitutionally.

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Speaker 1: But putting that framework together, I want to show a

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Speaker 1: proof of concept that would work. And I don't care

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Speaker 1: who gets it done. But if I can be a

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Speaker 1: part of the conversation and drive that change, drive that message,

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Speaker 1: then I want to be a part of it. Because

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Speaker 1: this bill, the States Reform Act, has written about every

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Speaker 1: single week. I mean, people are desperate to get this

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Speaker 1: done and there's never a better time than the present.

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Speaker 1: Let me press you on this because you know, obviously

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Speaker 1: this has now become a very partisan issue at the

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Speaker 1: elected officials level, right I mean you have the Democrats,

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Speaker 1: who you know, I was always frustrated for many years

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Speaker 1: during my advocacy that they were hanging back, hanging back,

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Speaker 1: taking forever. But now they're almost all on board. I mean,

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Speaker 1: certainly in the House with the More Act. You see

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Speaker 1: in the Senate there's a whole bunch who aren't that

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Speaker 1: keen on it. But you're seeing the Republicans still holding back.

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Speaker 1: And as you pointed out, you know you already have now.

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Speaker 1: I mean years ago you had a majority of young

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Speaker 1: Republicans in favor. You know you now I think have

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Speaker 1: a majority of all Republicans in favor. But when you

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Speaker 1: look at elected officials, they're not there. Right. You look

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Speaker 1: at the Republicans representing the states that have legalized marijuana,

430
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 1: and I think, with one exception, Maurkowski, they're not back

431
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 1: in marijuana legalization. You look at the House Act, they

432
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 1: they're not getting behind it. You see in in South

433
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 1: Dakota where the Republican governor Christie no went out of

434
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 1: her way to try to get rid of a legalization

435
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: initiative that had passed by an overwhelming margin in the election.

436
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 1: Is it that the Republicans of the House, they just

437
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 1: don't want to give the Democrats a victory while they

438
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: still have it. Is this going to change dramatically assuming

439
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,919
Speaker 1: the Republicans take back power in the coming election. I mean,

440
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,119
Speaker 1: are there, in fact many dozens and dozens of Republican

441
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,119
Speaker 1: members of Congress who actually are in favor of this

442
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,239
Speaker 1: but just don't feel ready to, you know, stick their

443
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 1: head up yet and join you on this thing. What's

444
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,679
Speaker 1: going on there? Yeah, And I would say, um, it's crazy,

445
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 1: and it's sort of like, yeah, I had the head

446
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: of my own party in my state attacked me over

447
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 1: this bill, and I was like, dude, you didn't read

448
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 1: the bill. Like, if that's your position, you clearly didn't

449
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: read the bill and don't know what you're talking about.

450
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: In the state of South Carolina. Bright right, South Carolina,

451
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 1: it is Republicans who are leading cannabis reforms in our state.

452
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 1: They did see biting in Hemp and hopefully, across my fingers,

453
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: they're gonna get medical cannabis moved through. It was a

454
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 1: Republican state Senator Tom Davis out of my district, and

455
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,359
Speaker 1: it's largely at the Republicans in my district in the

456
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 1: low country of South Carolina that are leading on cannabis reform,

457
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: but he's the one that's leading the medical cannabis side

458
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 1: of it in the state, and its Republicans doing this

459
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 1: in my state. Um, But then it's also you've got

460
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: the Republicans that are pushing back, and like many other issues,

461
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 1: people are worried about their base, which is why even

462
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 1: after November sentence split as a four person majority margin

463
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,640
Speaker 1: in the House. That's you would think that Congress would understand,

464
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: this is time for consensus, right This is not time

465
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: to go far left socialist, massive spending help the race

466
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 1: to inflation increasing the way it is. But this is

467
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: not isn't for that moment. You would think that people

468
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,160
Speaker 1: would understand it's about consensus building right now because we're

469
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: so divided. But the fringes and whether that's like far

470
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: left progressives or far right Q and on people that

471
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 1: base in your primaries, that's what I feel like, you know,

472
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: people are afraid of. But my only thing is if

473
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 1: you're not going to put it on a ballot referendum,

474
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: pull it. I mean, it just pulls so high. And

475
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: in fact, I did a poll race just a couple

476
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: of days ago for my own reelection and I pulled

477
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: Republican primary voters on cannabis reform and at the at

478
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: states being able to do it themselves. And it is

479
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: extremely popular and more wildly popular than I thought, and

480
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: I obviously didn't do it for that, but it's surprising

481
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: that there's so much push back. And you know, the

482
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: ten percent of people that are strongly opposed to it, well,

483
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: they don't vote on the issue. And I just don't

484
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 1: understand some people think I'm controversial or take risks I

485
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: don't need to, but I just you know, we need

486
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 1: normal humans that are fiscally conservative, like don't waste my money,

487
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 1: and are socially modern, right, and just like this is,

488
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 1: everybody's doing it. They're doing it for different reasons. A

489
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: lot of it's for medical reasons. And you've got all

490
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 1: these drugs that are addicting that are being prescribed to people,

491
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: and you have all this data out there and states

492
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 1: that have an opioid crisis. When you have cannabis legalized

493
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: there at any way, shape or form, you know, those

494
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: addiction rates go down, morbidity goes down, everything goes down,

495
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,160
Speaker 1: and there's no rate of increased rate of violent crime

496
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: when you have cannabis and your state. I mean, it's

497
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: just the data is there. But I think, you know,

498
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 1: it's a taking it's about educating people who are elected.

499
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: And it's like this is not controversial as controversial as

500
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 1: you think. And even in the last four years, Republicans

501
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 1: have come really, really far on these issues. But I

502
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: think it's how we talk about it, you know, and

503
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: understanding you know, the role of the federal government in

504
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: the Royal States, and understanding that hey, bets need this.

505
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: We have a huge veteran suicide rate. And if this

506
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 1: could save a life, whether you're dying of cancer or

507
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 1: you've got epilepsy, I mean, whatever it is, this is

508
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,479
Speaker 1: like a miracle drug for some people. And it's not addicting, right,

509
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: They're not getting addicted to it. You're not, you know.

510
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: And I talked to sheriffs and law enforcement and deputies

511
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 1: and when they're being called into domestic violence or violent crimes,

512
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: pot is not part of the problem. I mean, it's

513
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 1: just not. And so I would just incurdge elected Republicans

514
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: is like find out, like where your constituents actually stand

515
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: on the issue. That could be be a poll, that

516
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: could be a ballot measure, ballot referendum, like the most

517
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: popular issue. The data that I have on it I

518
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: just got yesterday was just tremendous. I could not believe

519
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: how popular it was. Let's take a break here and

520
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 1: go to an ad I have to tell you. I mean,

521
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 1: for me, you know, who pursued this in a bipartisan

522
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: way as an advocate for many years, you know, going back,

523
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: you know, I mean the two most famous conservative aellectuals,

524
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: you know, the twentieth century, William Buckley and Milton Freeman

525
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: were my allies. I had George Schultz and Frank Carlucci

526
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 1: on the honorary board of my Drug Policy Alliance. You know.

527
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: Gary Johnson, their former Republican governor New Mexico, was a

528
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: great champion, know, way ahead of the curve. But at

529
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: the same time, as you're pointing out, the Republicans keep

530
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: hanging back in and fighting against this. And so I

531
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: just want to go to your district, right, I mean,

532
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: you're gonna be up for election, as all members of

533
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: Congress are every two years now. Your district was really

534
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: one of the few competitive ones, I think the only

535
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: competitive one in South Carolina. A Democrat actually wanted, you know,

536
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: back in twenty eighteen by one and a half points.

537
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: You beat him by about one and a half points

538
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: in the most recent election. Now, as I understand that

539
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: there's been a redistrict thing in your state, the governor

540
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 1: just signed it. It means that your district is now

541
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: going to go from being somewhat competitive to being a

542
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: fairly safe Republican district. And I know the state endu

543
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 1: a CP is suing to try to fight that, but

544
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: let's assume that doesn't change at all. Now, it seems

545
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: to me you're now going to have a Republican challenger,

546
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 1: and and Donald Trump has jumped all over you. You know,

547
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 1: you're one of the Republicans who he's decided he's going

548
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: to go after. And the Republican who's challenging the primary,

549
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: she just put out an ad. You know what she says,

550
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: is Nancy Mays high right now? Is there some reason

551
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: that that to believe that she's gonna benefit from attack

552
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: sacking you in this kind of under the belt kind

553
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: of way. Yeah, it's really it's it's quite bizarre, quite frankly.

554
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: And when you compare records, for example, my my opponent,

555
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: when President Trump was lowering taxes for the American people,

556
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 1: my opponent was raising them. When President Trump was signing

557
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,719
Speaker 1: the First Step Act Prison reform bill and doing criminal

558
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 1: justice reform. My opponent was working against me on criminal

559
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: justice reform prison reform legislation in the state legislature. Because

560
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 1: we served together, you know, I can be trusted with

561
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 1: our nation's secrets. My opponent had her top secret security

562
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: clearance revoked for allegedly leaking classified information. And it's kind

563
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: of bizarre. I don't quite understand it. And with regards

564
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: to redistricting and everything, I don't know that it is

565
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: going to get that much more republican this cycle. We're

566
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: waiting to hear what the court says, but they might

567
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: stay the case and not do the case until later

568
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: this year. And so at this juncture, we're not sure

569
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: if we're running under the old lines, which is the

570
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: area I represent today, or the new lines that both

571
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,959
Speaker 1: chambers of the state legislature passed. We just at this

572
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: point we have no idea. But the interesting thing is

573
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: from two thousand sixteen when Trump overwhelmingly in South Carolina

574
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: to two thousand eighteen when my opponent was a nominee.

575
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: Back in those days, there was a fourteen point swing

576
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: in the wrong direction. And so this is really a

577
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: swing district, and in a midterm election cycle, this district

578
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: can swing fifteen points right from being a Republican majority

579
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: to Democrat winning. And so I would say that my

580
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: district is uniquely positioned there. Our voters are uniquely as

581
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: stute on policy and on the issues, and we do

582
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: march to the beaut of our own drum. They don't

583
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: want someone who's going to tow the party line. They

584
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: want someone who's bhyscically conservative, um socially moderate on these issues.

585
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: And so it's interesting to see the kind of campaign

586
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: that's coming after me in the attacks, and I'm like, Okay,

587
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: if that's what you really think, please talk more, Please

588
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: tell everybody that's that's where you stand. So let me

589
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: ask you about the other South Carolina politicians here right,

590
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: I think there's six Republicans and one Democrat there, but

591
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 1: I don't know that any of them have stepped out

592
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: with you. Is yet the one the one Democrat, James Clyburne,

593
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: who's enormously influential, you know, the black Democrat who was

594
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: given all this credit for having put Joe Biden, helped

595
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: him along in the primary. You know, he's part of

596
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: that kind of group of I think Southern Black Democrats

597
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: have always been kind of reluctant and just go along

598
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: on the drug reform and marijuana reform, and they're pushed

599
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: by the party. But you also have in South Carolina,

600
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: I think the only Black Republican Senator Tim Scott, and

601
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: you've been very out there pointing out the racial disparities

602
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: and marijuana arrest the fact that blacks are four times

603
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: more likely to get arrested you've acknowledged as a significant

604
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: racial justice issue there. Have you talked with Senator Scott

605
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: about this and is he showing any openness or have

606
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: not talked to another Scott specifically about this bill. We're

607
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: talking to other Senators UM in the Senate Chamber about

608
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: having a companion bill filed over there, and so we're

609
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: talking a couple of different offices about that. I tend

610
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: to lan in on issues again for some reason, I

611
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: think there's a reluctancy even in my party, UM in

612
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: my state of folks to lean in on these kinds

613
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: of things. I know, statewide, UM cannabis reform, at least

614
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: medical is also wildly popular, like the population supports it

615
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: statewide and Bright red South Carolina. But it's just a

616
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: matter of I think, educating people and showing the value

617
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: the benefit of doing it this way. I don't know

618
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: why it's so it's such a controversial subject for somebody.

619
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: I've not approached him because I just, you know, I

620
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: don't know that he would would be on board. I

621
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: know that he and I do talk about criminal justice reform,

622
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: and he's tried. He's worked so hard trying to make

623
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: that happen in the Senate. But again, that's an issue

624
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: where I would you think Republicans and Democrats can come together,

625
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: and he's led so well on those issues, but even

626
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: he's had a hard time in the Senate making that

627
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: happen as well. Right, I've been wondering about Senator Murkowski.

628
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: I mean, she's another one who Trump's going after her.

629
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: She comes from a state that has legalized marijuana. Don Young,

630
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: the kind of longest serving member of Congress who's from Alaska,

631
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: has been out there a marijuana legalization forever. Have you

632
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: talked to Murkowski and is she's somebody who might introduce

633
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: the bill in the Senate that would be a companion.

634
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: I am not. She's not on our radar for that

635
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: we're looking at other offices. Um, but Don Young, he's

636
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: an original co sponsor of my States reformat So my

637
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: bill had the highest numbers five I believe original co

638
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: sponsors on a Republican piece of cannabis legislation, and he

639
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: was I think it was the first one to sign on.

640
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: So I love some do some Don Young. I think

641
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: he's great. He represents his district well. But we have

642
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: not spoken to Murkowski's office about it. Yeah. My hope,

643
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: Reary is is that you know, I think back to

644
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: go to old Dana roar Backer. I mean when I

645
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: am my staff started working on one of the first

646
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: marijuana bills in Congress almost twenty years ago, and it

647
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: was an amendment and it basically said to say, the

648
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: Justice Department cannot spend any money going after medical marijuana

649
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: the states that have legalized said And Dana Roorbacker was

650
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: the Republican who was out there. He was teaming up

651
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: with different Democrats. Uh Sam far from California where he's in.

652
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: She from upstate New York. And every year you know

653
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: that Amocrats would get seventy eight hundred hundred twenty and

654
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: the Republicans would go six ten twelve fourteen, and it

655
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: never really kind of popped through with the Republicans, even

656
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: on medical marijuana. But more broadly, can you see there

657
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: being a kind of sudden break, a sudden jump where

658
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: it goes from being a half dozen Republicans in the

659
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: House to being many dozens and dozens, especially if the

660
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: Republicans regained power in the in the coming election. I

661
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: would say anything is possible after the primaries are over.

662
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: That's the thing. Everyone you know, they've got their primaries,

663
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: and so that's why you're going to see I think

664
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: Democrats do more in March right before their primaries take off,

665
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: and while you'll see Republicans more Republicans come onto the

666
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 1: State's Reformact after their primaries are over. So I would

667
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: say politics plays into this on both sides. I have

668
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,959
Speaker 1: a very unique district where we have more of an

669
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: independent kind of streak. We march the beat of our

670
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: own drum and the issues that I that I lean

671
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,239
Speaker 1: in on, our issues that my constituents care about, and

672
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: so I know that I'm in the right place. I'm

673
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 1: in the right spot. I mean, even adult recreational use

674
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: in my district is the overwhelming majority of constituent support.

675
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: So for me, it's a it's not a controversial play

676
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: down here. But for others I can see where maybe

677
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: they'd be more hesitant about it, but not that's not

678
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: the case in my district, I guess. And if you're

679
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: against cannabis in my district, you know you're not on

680
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 1: the right side of history. You know, it's nice seeing

681
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: Charles Coke and his Americans for Prosperity organization really get

682
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: behind you on this sort of thing. And this is

683
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: one of these issues where you see Charles Coke and

684
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: George Searles going hand in hand. I mean, there's a

685
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: few issues like that. But if Coke said he's going

686
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: to spend either his people said they're going to spend

687
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: millions of dollars to help move this forward. I mean,

688
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 1: have you been in contact with M and DVID he

689
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: says how they're gonna wait America for Prosperity. They supported

690
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: me in my election in and we definitely, you know,

691
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: took some of the information and research that they had

692
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: when we're formulating this bill. This bill was my brain child,

693
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 1: uh and I passed it off to my staff almost

694
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: a year ago. I guess it was March of last year.

695
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: It took us about nine months, but talking with different stakeholders.

696
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: But I have Republican groups like a FP involved in

697
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: support of and endorsements bill. I've got Normal also on

698
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: the other side that has endorsed the bill, and then

699
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: we've got companies like Amazon that support the bill for

700
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: different reasons. There's progress that is happening on the right

701
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: and a FPS involvement and leaning in on the issue

702
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: I think will really be helpful too Republicans and encouraging

703
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: them to get on more of the responsible cannabis reform.

704
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: And that's the least we could ask for. And if

705
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: you want to do it in a responsible way, then

706
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: both sides have to be have to have a seat

707
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: at the table, and that includes us and our party.

708
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: If we turn our backs on it, then we've missed

709
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: a huge opportunity to serve our constituencies. Hmm. What about

710
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: Crover Norquist? Does he leading on UM. I know that

711
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: they've put out I believe some information on the tax

712
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: side of it, and they support the bill as well

713
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 1: because it's obviously very low taxes at three federal exercise

714
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: tax and so a lot of the conservative tax groups

715
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: are supportive of the bill in that regard as well,

716
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: which is pretty awesome. That's that's great. I mean, has

717
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: been a long time ally and drug policy reform stuff,

718
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: so I hope he'd be on this. So I'm gonna

719
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: let you go in a moment, just I have a

720
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: question here. There's another issue that's really gaining a lot

721
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: of traction recently, and that's about the issue of psychedelics.

722
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: And you know, there's a very good chance the FDA

723
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: is going to approve m d M A for ptsd

724
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 1: UH in the next year or two. There's all this

725
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: evidence about, you know, psychedelics being helpful for veterans suffering

726
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: from this. Former Texas Governor Rick Perry and a former

727
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: Trump Cabinet minute has been out there. Texas just recently

728
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: passed a law. You know, there's a fellow named Jesse Gould,

729
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: the veteran with his Heroic Hearts project who's making trying

730
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: to make psychedelic therapy available to veterans. Is this an

731
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 1: issue you've looked at? Have you spoken about? Can you

732
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 1: see getting involve deeply into the issue. About two years ago,

733
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: I had a friend who's a veteran that started participate

734
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: in one of these m d m A studies with PTSD,

735
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 1: and so I am still learning about the issue and

736
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: some of the opportunities out there. But again, these things

737
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: need to be studied, like we need to be able

738
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 1: to do this kind of research and understand the benefits

739
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 1: or the positives and the negatives, what the outcomes could be.

740
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: Because some of the pharmaceuticals that are out there, some

741
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: of the dry as you can get prescribed, I mean,

742
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 1: have such high addiction rates uh and and sometimes can

743
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: exacerbate PTSD and can exacerbate suicide rates. And so I

744
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: think everything should be on the table if it can

745
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: make you feel better and reduce the rate of suicide

746
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: when you come home for more from combat than everything

747
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: should be on the table. We should do right by

748
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: our veterans and find ways for them to have a

749
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: higher quality of life. I mean, they were willing to

750
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 1: take a bullet for our country. At least we can

751
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: do is help them they come home. Okay, last question,

752
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,439
Speaker 1: I hope I don't blindside you with this one, which

753
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: is one of the issues that's trying to drive me crazy,

754
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 1: especially with my fellow Democrats. It's the whole issue around

755
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: the cigarettes and tobacco harm reduction, and everybody freaked out

756
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 1: when the kids started jeweling and using all these cigarettes

757
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: produced this overwhelming evidence right that ease cigarettes and other

758
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: you know, non smokable forms of tobacco can be usually

759
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: beneficial in reducing smoking in this country and other people

760
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: dying on this issue. And this is an issue where strangey,

761
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: a lot of the Democrats have been very supportive of

762
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 1: you know, marijuana legalization, harm reduction, drug posity form, needle change,

763
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 1: you name it. Had been on the wrong side of

764
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,320
Speaker 1: the issue, but almost no Republicans are stepping up on

765
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 1: the other side of this issue. Have you paid attention

766
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: to this issue and the state legislature, we did, because

767
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 1: a lot of those reforms with the jewels and the cigarettes,

768
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: those provisions, those regulations, statutes, and laws are largely done

769
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: at the state level. And I know that we did

770
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: a little bit of work on that when I was

771
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 1: in the state legislature, but the federal level, it's not

772
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: something I've heard a lot about. Since I've been elected,

773
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: my focus has really been on this cannabis bill because

774
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: I knew, like, hey, I wanted to be a part

775
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 1: of it at the state level, and when I got

776
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: to Congress. This was something that I promised I would

777
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: work on, and I had this great idea and I

778
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 1: was like, we're going to do this, and so that's

779
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: where my focus has really been. I haven't seen anything

780
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: at the federal level on the cigarette issues at this

781
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: juncture yet. Okay, well, listen comms made. Thank you so

782
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: much for joining me. I hope you kicked the butt

783
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: of your Republican primary opponent. I hope you'll wipe her out.

784
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: I wish you all the best in advancing this bill

785
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 1: and working out compromises with the Democrats so something can

786
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: actually happen on the federal level. And more power to

787
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: you on all of this. Thank you so much for

788
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 1: joining me on Psychoactive, and thank you so much for

789
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: having me today. If you're enjoying Psychoactive, please tell your

790
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 1: friends about it, or you can write us a review

791
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: at Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. We

792
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: love to hear from our listeners. If you'd like to

793
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: share your own stories, comments, and ideas, then leave us

794
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 1: a message at one eight three three seven seven nine

795
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: sixty that's eight three three psycho zero, or you can

796
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,439
Speaker 1: email us at Psychoactive at protozoa dot com or find

797
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: me on Twitter at Ethan Natalman. You can also find

798
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: contact information in our show notes. Psychoactive is a production

799
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Protozoa Pictures. It's hosted by

800
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: me Ethan Nadelman. It's produced by no h'm osband and

801
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 1: Josh Stain. The executive producers are Dylan Golden, Ari Handel,

802
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Geeseus and Darren Aronofsky from Protozoa Pictures, Alex Williams

803
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: and At Frederick from my Heart Radio, and me Ethan Edelman.

804
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: Our music is by Ari Blucien and a special thanks

805
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: to Abbvi Brio, s F Bianca Grimshaw and Robert beep

806
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: m