1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told you. From House top 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hello to Welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,799 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline and it is oscar week on 4 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 1: the podcast. That's right. Last time, we talked about sort 5 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: of the history and evolution of women in the director's chair, 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: and that was fascinating. We learned so much incredible history 7 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: that I frankly had no idea about. But we also 8 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: wanted to focus today's episode on those trailblazing, groundbreaking African 9 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: American directors who were out there, both who laid the 10 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: groundwork back hundred hundred years ago, but also the women 11 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: who are working so hard in the industry today. Yeah, 12 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: because there was one issue with Monday's episode that came 13 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: out was that, yeah, we were talking about history, but 14 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: we were also covering three white women. And while there 15 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: are barriers unique to females in particular who want to direct, 16 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: there are even more barriers in place for women of 17 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: color who want to direct. And before we get into 18 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: the rather depressing statistics, to be honest, I just want 19 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: to establish the fact that yes, they are out there, 20 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: they are making their films despite these barriers, and there 21 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 1: are names that you should know, and I tweeted a 22 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: friend of mine, Lauren Shacker, who is in l A, 23 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: who is a totally badass feminist making films, and I 24 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: asked her for suggestions of women of color directors we 25 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 1: should give shout outs to. And the response from her 26 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: Twitter followers and other women in Hollywood making films was overwhelming. 27 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: And these aren't exclusively African American women in the director's seat, 28 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: which we're going to focus on in this episode. But 29 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: just to tea things off, we wanted to share some 30 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: of the names that we got from Twitter. Yeah, we 31 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: heard about women like Nima Barnett, Milicent Shelton, Janasa Bravo, 32 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 1: Debbie Allen, Mina Schum, Alice Woo, Julie Dash, who will 33 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: talk about more in this episode. Yeah, I gotta tell you, Caroline, 34 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 1: I had a real celebrity feeling moment on Twitter when 35 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: Julie Dash retweeted our tweet. We connected to Julie Jash 36 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 1: And if you don't know who Julie Dashes, you will 37 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: understand in a few minutes why that was such a 38 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: big moment. And that wasn't all. There were even more names, Yeah, 39 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: like Tan You're right, Alma Assante, who were about to 40 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: mention Sa Ray, Darnell, Martin, Suki and Lee and Marta 41 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,959 Speaker 1: Cunningham just to mention a few Yeah, and we're gonna 42 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: gather all of these up into gallery on stuff I've 43 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,119 Speaker 1: never told you dot Com with links to IMDb pages 44 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: and films, so that if you didn't catch all of 45 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: those names, don't worry, you will be able to find 46 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: them on our website. So here's where we get to 47 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: the not so fun facts that yes, these women absolutely exist. 48 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 1: They're doing incredible work. But in our episode on Monday, 49 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: we highlighted how there are in Hollywood about fifteen point 50 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: two four male directors to every female director. Right, we 51 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: pointed out that it was fifteen men and a stations 52 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: yes and point two four chins. But then if you 53 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: narrow it down to female directors of color, the number 54 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: gets even tinier. And speaking to the root director Ama 55 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: Sante and she she directed the movie Bell, which I 56 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: went and saw when it came out in theaters. She 57 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: pointed out that black women makeup just one percent of 58 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: directors over all, one percent, and consider this too. In 59 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: the nineties, only twenty eight films were directed by black women. 60 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: Twenty feature films, I should say only three of those 61 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: were released nationally, and only one of those had a 62 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: major Hollywood release. So when we're talking about barriers in 63 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: terms of women on making, this is a group that 64 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: honestly probably faces the most challenges in terms of getting 65 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: a film made, especially in Hollywood. Yeah, but this doesn't 66 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: mean that there aren't some amazing women out there. Obviously, 67 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: as we've been trying to establish, You've got women like 68 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,679 Speaker 1: Maya Angelou who directed Down in the Delta. She had actually, 69 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: as we'll talk about earlier, had wanted to direct a 70 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: previous screenplay that she'd written, but she didn't get the opportunity. 71 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: You've got Gina Prince Bythewood who directed Love and Basketball, 72 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 1: which was produced by Spike Lee, and Casey Lemons who 73 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: directed Eve's Bayou, which is definitely going into my Netflix queue. 74 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: And then we have Cheryl Danier who directed the film 75 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: Watermelon Woman, and Dannie is actually the first openly gay 76 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: black female director, and as well, talk about a more 77 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: detail in just a minute. The modern history of black 78 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: women directing films is rather recent, but what a lot 79 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: of people might not know is that even in those 80 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: early days of film, there were black female trailblazers like 81 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: the women we were talking about in Monday's episode, like 82 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: the Alice Ki Blaches. Yeah, and their goal was not 83 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: only to direct movies be involved in the film industry, 84 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: but also to really put forth an effort to present 85 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: a more accurate portrayal of the lives of African Americans. 86 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: That they weren't one dimensional characters who were all servants 87 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,799 Speaker 1: or maids, that they had just as rich and inner 88 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: life as any other character on screen. And so a 89 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: lot of this information is coming from media messages, what film, 90 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: TV and popular music teach us about race um. And 91 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 1: we also cannot emphasize enough how great of a resource 92 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: Columbia University's Women Film Pioneers Project is. It's online and 93 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: all of the women were going to talk about are 94 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: also profiled over there. And the first one we want 95 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: to talk about is Truscy Stouters, who the Black Press 96 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: named her the first black woman director with the film 97 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: A Woman's Error, which was distributed by the Afro American 98 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 1: Film Exhibitors Company based in Kansas City, Missouri, and she 99 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 1: also wrote the screenplay. And what's interesting is that profile 100 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: points out that in the nine City Directory city directory 101 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: for Kansas City, Missouri, and if you do any sort 102 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: of family or history research, you realize how important those 103 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: city directories are to look back at. But they listed 104 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: her as a maid, and so I think it's so 105 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 1: interesting also to look at the career path that these 106 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: women take and still today that these women take to 107 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: get behind the camera. But then that leads us to 108 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: Eloy's King Patrick just she was an independent businesswoman who 109 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 1: also produced films with her husband, so there's that same 110 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: husband wife team connection that we also talked about in 111 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: the first episode. But her films had a super strong 112 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: moral bent for the purpose of social uplift. For instance, 113 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: her crime drama Verdict Not Guilty is oft screen by 114 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: the inn Double a CP and the interestingly titled hell 115 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: Bound Train preached temperance for her audience well, and thinking 116 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: about Verdict Not Guilty in today's context with all of 117 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: the national conversations going on regarding race relations. That was 118 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,239 Speaker 1: a film that she was making in the silent era 119 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: about the criminal justice system and race. So films that 120 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: are still relevant today and just focused more on writing 121 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: and editing than actual directing. But she's still a really 122 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: important figure who is also acknowledged by the Library of Congress. Yeah, 123 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: they're actually putting in an effort, and I don't know 124 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: how far along they are in these efforts. I'd love 125 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: to hear an update if anybody has one. But they 126 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: have been working to edit and restore her films, which 127 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: basically were in shreds. I mean, you know, we've we 128 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: talked about the films of the women in our first episode, 129 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: that they were also damaged and super hard to find, 130 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: these early films, and that some of them were founded 131 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: in a state sale in a trunk, and so you 132 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: can just imagine what film from this era is like 133 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: if it's not cared for well. And apparently Verdict Not 134 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: Guilty was screened so often that that's one of the 135 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: reasons why it's in tatters, because it was just used 136 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: so so many times. But then we also have Maria P. Williams, 137 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: who was a social activist. Not surprising. I mean, it 138 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: seems like all of these women have activism in their blood. 139 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: And she wrote the pamphlet My Work and Public Sentiment 140 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixteen, so she was already getting her voice 141 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,439 Speaker 1: out there. And she and her husband again that that 142 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: marriage tie right there. They operated a motion picture theater 143 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: and we're instrumental with the Western Film Producing Company and 144 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: Booking Exchange, and so that kind of got her into 145 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: this burgeoning industry. Yeah, and in Nree she produced, distributed, 146 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: and acted in her own film, The Flames of Wrath, 147 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: and so well, she is an ex ly a lady director. 148 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: She's still an incredibly important figure. And it is important 149 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: to point out also that the term producer was sort 150 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: of used ambiguously back in those days. So basically I 151 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: think it's fine to count her as a trailblazing filmmaker. Absolutely. 152 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: I mean, at the time, the Norfolk Journal and Guide 153 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: hailed her as the first quote colored woman film producer 154 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 1: in the United States, which clearly was an exciting moment, 155 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: so we wanted to We thought it was important to 156 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 1: establish that, yes, there is that early history right there. 157 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: Black women have been working in filmmaking since the beginning 158 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: of that technology. But here's the thing that the big 159 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: difference that jumped out to me in us talking about 160 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: those early white female directors and this group of black 161 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: directors you still have. Even with white female directors, there 162 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: is definitely a gap in Hollywood, particularly post World War Two, 163 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: But when it comes to black female directors, there's nothing 164 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 1: in Hollywood. You have no Dorothy Arsner or Ida Lupino 165 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: equivalent in those earlier days of Hollywood, because it's not 166 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: until the late nineteen eighties that black women even get 167 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: behind the camera in mainstream Hollywood, right, Yeah, there is 168 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: there is a line between the independent films and the 169 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: documentaries that women of color putting out and actually getting 170 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: to be behind the camera in Hollywood, like you said, 171 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: And so it's interesting to look at the route that 172 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: women take to becoming successful directors. And that's something that 173 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:40,559 Speaker 1: Melvin Donaldson writes about in his book Black Directors in Hollywood, 174 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: specifically about how black women filmmakers have consistently, either by 175 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: choice or by you know, financial necessity, had to go 176 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: the independent route and often gravitated toward documentary filmmaking for 177 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: that reason. And I mean there was also a certain 178 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: appeal to particularly when it comes to documentary filmmaking, because 179 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: they quote provide an opportunity for inscribing the untold accounts 180 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: of black public and private figures in the historical record. 181 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: Going back again to those early when we talked about 182 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: who weren't just making films for the sake of making films, 183 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: but making films I could accurately portray black life and 184 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: black community. Yeah, and you get Jesse Maple in the 185 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: early eighties, who was driven by this need and desire 186 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: to present more positive images of the African American community. 187 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: And so in nine one she becomes the first black 188 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: female director of an independent feature length film called Will 189 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: and it focuses around a girl's basketball coach who has 190 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: a heroine problem, but who is also mentoring a twelve 191 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: year old boy. And it was shot on just a 192 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: twelve thousand dollar budget. And what's so interesting when you 193 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: talk about the roots that people take to to get 194 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: where they're going. She actually didn't start her career in 195 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: film until after she worked as a bacteriologist, and it 196 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: was that desire to want to inject positive images of 197 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: black women and black men into the media that that 198 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: really drove her. But she was also the first black 199 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: woman to join the Filmmakers Union, which is interesting. And 200 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: she was highly influential in black cinema, starting twenty West 201 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: Home of Black Cinema in her basement in Harlem in 202 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties. That showcased the newest in black film, 203 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: and she would brag that they showed Spike Lee films 204 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: where anyone else showed Spike Lee films. But looking outside 205 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: of the independent route and looking to Hollywood, there's such 206 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: a dearth of black female directors because of a lot 207 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: of institutional factors that come up. Obviously, talented black female 208 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: directors exist, but they're likelier to quote sidestep the frustrating 209 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: studio system and complete low budget projects. Remember, people, it 210 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: always goes back to the money, but also that's usually 211 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: the go to factor in terms of white female directors 212 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: not getting these larger Hollywood scale projects. But there's an 213 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: added wrinkle when it comes to black female filmmakers that 214 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: it's the money, but also the content too, of people 215 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: being like, well, I don't know if these stories need 216 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: to be told about these black communities. Yeah, whether they 217 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: need to be told, or whether they'll translate to a 218 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: larger audience and national audience that is white or an 219 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: international audience that might not catch everything if it's lost 220 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 1: in translation. Yeah, I mean I'm not saying that, I'm 221 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: saying that those are a lot of the producers and 222 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: studio systems concerns. Yeah, that was my impression of the 223 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: studios right, talking like this very stiff. But then as 224 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: Melvin Donaldson writes about again in black directors in Hollywood 225 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: in the nineties and the very late eighties, but really 226 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: in the nineties, some black women directors start getting a 227 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: few more opportunities to work, and I mean this is 228 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: this is again in contrast to white women directors who 229 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: again lots of barriers, but still had more more access. 230 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,559 Speaker 1: And he attributes it to a few factors. Starting in 231 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties. He mentions how black male directors kind 232 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: of paved the way just in the sense of telling 233 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: the stories of people of color and establishing that, hey, 234 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: this is a valid and important and also successful financially 235 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: form of entertainment, right. And you also have the rise 236 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: in black female authors being published in the mid seventies 237 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: onward and then bringing those literary characters alive on screen. 238 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: For example, we had Lorraine Hansberry and a Raisin in 239 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: the Sun, Terry McMillan and waiting to Exhale, Alice Walker 240 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: and the color Purple. Of course, a more recently Chimamanda 241 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: Negozi Adici and Americana, Yeah, which I can't already can't 242 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: wait to see. And in addition to the importance of 243 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: greater visibility of black women in front of the screen, 244 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: both the big screen and the small screen. It's all 245 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: about this process of normalizing. It's just wild to me 246 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: that we're talking about this in the context of only 247 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, not the eighteen nineties, the nineteen nineties. 248 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: So why don't we talk about some more contemporary trail 249 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: blazers and women who were breaking through those barriers to 250 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: make their films. Yeah, well, you know, mentioning Maya Angela again. 251 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: She is the first black woman to have a feature 252 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: film screenplay produced with nineteen seventy two Georgia Georgia, and 253 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: she had wanted to direct it but didn't and she 254 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: ended up being unhappy with the final product, and she 255 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: had to wait to sit in the director's chair until 256 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: down in the Delta. And she has a great quote about, hey, 257 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: books are my world, movies or your world. If I'm 258 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: doing something that seems odd or wrong, please pull me 259 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: aside and we'll go for a walk together and you 260 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: can tell me that way. Yeah. I had fun google 261 00:15:55,280 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: imaging images of Maya Angelou and the director's chair. Um, 262 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: and it's as that's exactly what you think. It looks like. 263 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: It's my Angelo and the director's she looks like she's 264 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: having a good time. I didn't realize though that she 265 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: was a director. And also, I mean, you know, the 266 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: first black woman to have a feature film screenplay produced. Yeah, 267 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: who knew. Well, that's why we're here, Kristen, That's why 268 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: we're talking about this today exactly, hopefully spreading some knowledge. Um. 269 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: Then there's the amazing us and Policy. She's the first 270 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: black woman to direct a major Hollywood studio feature film. 271 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: The movie A Dry White Season in nine nine. It's 272 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: about apartheid and it's starring the A listers Donald Sutherland, 273 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: Marlon Brando, and Susan Surrandon. Brando actually came out of 274 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: retirement to work in this film, and he ended up 275 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: getting his final Oscar nomination for his role in her film. 276 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: And Policy is the only woman to ever direct Marlon Brando, 277 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: which is pretty interesting and other moment of celebrity Twitter excitement. 278 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: She also weighed in on the tweet about women of 279 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: color directors. Yes, yes, so I mean that right there. 280 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: The fact that that she and Julie Dash were hopping 281 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 1: on board of this conversation shows just how much activism 282 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: there still is around this specific issue. Um, and talking 283 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: again about her route into filmmaking, it started pretty early. 284 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: She was born on the island of Martinique and made 285 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: her first film in France at seventeen. Yeah, and in 286 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: three her first feature film, Sugarcane Alley, was presented at 287 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: the Venice Film Festival and she became the first black 288 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: artist to win a Caesar and a Silver Lion Award 289 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: at Venice. And when it comes to the importance of 290 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: a Dry White Season, not only was it groundbreaking in 291 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: the sense if he was making it, but also its 292 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: content it helped bring attention to apartheid and genocide happening 293 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: in South Africa. So I mean, clearly that just goes 294 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: to show the importance of getting these new and diverse 295 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,239 Speaker 1: perspectives because they're the retellers. Yeah. Well, now let's talk 296 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: about Julie Dash, who we've mentioned at the top of 297 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: the podcast. And people are probably like, Okay, you've mentioned 298 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: Julie Dash like five times, what is the date? Why 299 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 1: are you so obsessed with Julie Dash. Well, Julie Dash 300 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: listener friends, was an independent filmmaker who ended up making 301 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: the very first general theatrical release directed by a black woman. 302 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,479 Speaker 1: About that for a title, Yeah, that Daughters of the Dust, 303 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: which explored the complexities of a black family with a 304 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: black female protagonist, and it was shot for eight hundred 305 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 1: thousand dollars on St. Helena Island off the coast of 306 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: South Carolina, and it I this is another film that 307 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 1: I'm adding to my list of things that I have 308 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: to go see because it sounds just incredibly fascinating. The 309 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 1: way that it presents this multi generational look at this 310 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: African American family, and the technique that it uses to 311 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: tell the story is so interesting, focusing on the voice 312 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: of an unborn child to sort of help bridge those 313 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 1: generations and look into the past where the families come from. 314 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: It also look into the future and where they're going. Yeah, 315 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: And in Monday's episode on those pioneering Hollywood directors, we 316 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: also mentioned at the top of that episode the importance 317 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: of sun Dance, the Sunday's film festival for showcasing um 318 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: filmmakers of color and female filmmakers, and that was where 319 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,479 Speaker 1: Daughters of the Dust first caught people's attention. And in 320 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:30,159 Speaker 1: terms of film critique and analysis, Donaldson writes that Dash 321 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: reveals what no other Hollywood filmmaker had done in the 322 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 1: past namely that black women possessed physical and spiritual beauty 323 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: as well as psychological diversity. Yeah, and it's those representations 324 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: that uh Dash is talking about in Daughters of the 325 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: Dust when she has this quote about how it affects men, 326 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 1: male male viewers in the audience, and she says, I 327 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: think that for a lot of white males and black 328 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: males too, they get to go there and assume the 329 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: person alley of the characters on screen. A lot of 330 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: people couldn't do that for Daughters of the Dust. I mean, 331 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 1: I've seen men run out of the theater, and I 332 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 1: think that's so funny. She's she's presenting an incredibly important 333 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:16,439 Speaker 1: voice and incredibly important perspective, but talking about how some 334 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: members of my audience just can't handle it well. And 335 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:24,199 Speaker 1: that goes to to considering why it is important to 336 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: talk about female directors and that influence because what is 337 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: on screen is reflected on what's behind screen. And we 338 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: talked to all the time about the importance of like 339 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 1: representation and visibility and a lot of times, yes, if 340 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: if films are being exclusively made by white men a 341 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: lot of the times, then a lot of the times, 342 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 1: those are the stories that end up being told, and 343 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: not that there's anything wrong with those stories, but hey, 344 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: you know, we like we like to see ourselves, all 345 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 1: of ourselves reflected on screen. Yeah. But Dash points out 346 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: to andy week dot Com that this film um and 347 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: it's incredibly important perspective, ultimately proved a little bit limiting. 348 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: She says that Daughters of the Dust, which was selected 349 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: for preservation in the National Film Registry in two thousand four, 350 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: by the way, gave her a reputation as an auteur 351 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: who specializes in the cinema of ideas not words, making 352 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: the chances of her doing a sophomore feature close to nil. 353 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: So basically, here she's presenting this incredibly important film with 354 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: these perspectives that are really not represented anywhere else, and 355 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: people were like, Oh, are you just gonna make movies 356 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: like that? This is so artsy? Yeah, okay, well never mind. 357 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: And she hasn't made another theatrical release since her made 358 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: for TV film The Rosa Park Story did earn her 359 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: a nomination from the Director's Guild for Outstanding Directorial Achievement 360 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: in Movies for Television, which yet again was a first 361 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: for a black woman. And she has been so vocal 362 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: about the need for more black female directors. Obviously, she's 363 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: active on Twitter as well. Um, So, even though she 364 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: hasn't yet had that sophomore film after Daughters of the Dust, 365 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 1: she has certainly been active. Yeah. Absolutely. And then you know, 366 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: speaking of first, that leads us to Darnel Martin, who 367 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: was the first black woman to write and direct for 368 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: a major studio and her critically acclaimed I Like It 369 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 1: Like That came out from Columbia Pictures, and she really 370 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: didn't like the fact that during the promotion of the film, 371 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: people were paying so much attention to the fact that 372 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: she was not only a woman, but a woman of color, 373 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: that that seemed to be like the huge selling point 374 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: almost in the marketing for it. And it's interesting that, 375 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: you know, she also directed the film Cadillac Records a 376 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: couple of years ago that had Adrian Brody and Beyonce 377 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,719 Speaker 1: and it. Um but you know, her gender and ethnicity 378 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: really didn't receive nearly the same attention that they did 379 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: when her film came out. And perhaps that's a good sign. Yeah, 380 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: not that not that attention shouldn't be called to it, 381 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: of course, but like, hey, I'm a director, she doesn't 382 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 1: have to preface it by saying, I am a woman 383 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 1: of color director. Yeah. I mean, this is something that 384 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: comes up a lot on stuff I've never told you, 385 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: especially when we're talking about women in traditionally male dominated industries, 386 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 1: where it's like, just let me be a doctor, just 387 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: let me be a director, just let me be a 388 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: construction worker. It doesn't always have to be qualified, and 389 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,199 Speaker 1: that is that will be probably a sign of progress 390 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: when this episode is just about directors, right exactly. But 391 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,679 Speaker 1: then that brings us to Angela Robinson, who is the 392 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: highest grossing black female director for not the most artistic 393 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: or critically acclaimed film. It was Herbie Fully Loaded, which 394 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: did gross one million dollars worldwide on a fifty million 395 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: dollar budget, so and not the Live and even though 396 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: as people point out, yeah, Herbie not the most impression 397 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: that that's not a film for the ages what however, 398 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 1: it is notable that this was the first time a 399 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: black woman was at the helm of such a huge 400 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 1: franchise film. And I think this is an incredibly important 401 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 1: point to bring up because not that we need the proof, 402 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: but here's proof that a woman and a woman of 403 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: color at that can helm a project that draws a 404 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: bajillion eyeballs that people will want to go see a 405 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: film that has this great appeal regardless of who's in 406 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 1: the director's chair. If it's good, it's good and people 407 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 1: are gonna want to see it, and it it shouldn't 408 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: matter that the director is a woman of color. Well, 409 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: and at this point too, we've gone down the checklist 410 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: of all of these first of women of color proving 411 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: again and again like, yes, I can successfully direct a 412 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: fantastic film. What more do we need? And the answer 413 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 1: is more women of color directing films. And we're going 414 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: to talk more about that when we come right back 415 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: from a quick break and now back to the show. 416 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: So in the first half of the podcast, we focused 417 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: a lot on the women Trailblazers, the first for African 418 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: American female directors, and there are a lot of incredible 419 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: work has been done, an incredible foundation has been laid. 420 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: But when we look at Hollywood, because keep in mind 421 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: the differences between going the independent route and Hollywood where 422 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: the big bucks are, where you don't have to, as 423 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: some filmmakers have done, sell your own possessions just so 424 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: that you can make a film, because you're that passionate 425 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: about it. There is still such a dearth of black 426 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: women directors. Yeah. Writing about this over at the Griolmonia 427 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: Brown says that since Julie dash break there of Daughters 428 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: of the Dust, there have been only ten Hollywood films 429 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 1: directed by black women released nationally and with a decent 430 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: enough marketing campaign to actually assist with its promotion. Yeah. 431 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 1: And Brown goes on to talk about um attending a 432 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: panel that was filmed by black women directors name of Burnett, 433 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: Leslie Harris, Bridget Davis, an Tania Hamilton's and in answering 434 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: that question of well, why aren't there more women directors, 435 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: why aren't black women's movies being made, they attributed the 436 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: problem more to content than funding. That it starts even 437 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: even even before the financing issue, with just the story 438 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: itself and the characters and the communities that the stories 439 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: are examining. Right, so producers and studios just being afraid 440 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 1: that the voice in the film, or the tone of 441 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 1: the film or the content will not attract enough eyeballs. Yeah, 442 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: if we think that like a female ensemble led film 443 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: is considered niche just considered taking down a few more, 444 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: not just for that of film starring maybe a black 445 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 1: female ensemble, like, oh no, no, not enough people will 446 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: be interested in that. Certainly, certainly there aren't enough people 447 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: in the world who would be interested in what black 448 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: women have to say. And that was thing that a 449 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: claimed director de Reese experienced with her film Pariah, which 450 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: is about um a lesbians sort of coming out process 451 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: that came out in two thousand eleven, which was hailed 452 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: by people including Meryl Street being like, this woman is 453 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: incredibly talented, she needs to make more films. But when 454 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: it comes to Pariah, for instance, it was considered quote 455 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: too black and too gay for Hollywood financing. But which 456 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: gets to that content issue of like, oh, I don't know, 457 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: two things we could probably have maybe pretty gay, maybe 458 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 1: pretty black, but both of those I don't know. Yeah, 459 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: that's that's way too niche because we don't have any 460 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: people like that in the world. Make another Transformers instead. 461 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: But I think it is important to get back to 462 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: Julie Dash and her perspective on the whole thing, considering 463 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: she is such a big advocate and agitator for women 464 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: of color to get behind the camera. She had a 465 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: great quote in Indie Week talking about how, hey, there 466 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: are not enough of us let's say that they're not 467 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: enough of us working. We exist, We're here, they're here. 468 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: There are just not enough of us working. We need 469 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 1: work and would love to have the same opportunities everyone 470 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: else has, especially when it comes to telling all kinds 471 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: of stories, not just stories about African Americans, but all 472 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: kinds of stories. And that's important too to keep in mind. 473 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: I do think that these women get pigeonholed by their 474 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: ethnicity of people thinking, oh, well, you're a black woman, 475 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: so you're really only gonna want to tell stories about 476 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 1: other black women. Right when you think about it, I mean, 477 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,640 Speaker 1: you have you have white men telling the stories of 478 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: women of all colors all the time. You know clearly 479 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: their gender and race is not inhibiting them in the 480 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: storytelling process. Um, so it's greed that she points that out. 481 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: I'm a Sante who side note on a BAFTA for 482 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: her debut film, A Way of Life. She was quoted 483 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: in the Roots saying, we I E. Black female to 484 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: rectors basically do not register on the scale when it 485 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: comes to black women. We are under one percent of 486 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: directors overall. It's tough being a woman of color director 487 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: because I am either the color or the shape that 488 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: some people are comfortable with seeing in their directors, and 489 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: that makes it hard. Yeah, and I thought she had 490 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: a really good point beyond the women of color issue, 491 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: just about femininity and womanhood in general. She says, the 492 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: fact that I use my femininity as a tool and 493 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: not a hindrance is not always comfortable to people, to 494 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: be honest with you, but I believe it's about creating 495 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: a track record that is undeniable, and so in other words, 496 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 1: like who cares you know what I look like. The 497 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: fact that I am so incredibly capable and I have 498 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: this particular set of skills means that I can helm 499 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: and helm a great film but also tell a great story. 500 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: And it's absolutely worth noting that this is part of 501 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: the broader problem for women directors, even if they have 502 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,719 Speaker 1: had a theatrical release, even if they've had their one 503 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: Hollywood film, it's far less common for female directors to 504 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: get their second or third chance for a theatrical release period, 505 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: regardless of the color of their skin. Yeah, you kind 506 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: of have to be a Catherine Bigelow. Basically, you're going 507 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: to be an exception to a rule if you are 508 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: a Catherine Bigelow. Yeah, I mean and also think about 509 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: two And we've talked about her on the podcast before, um, 510 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: and she is absolutely important. But it's also interesting to 511 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: think about the content of her films and it's more 512 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: kind of war zone tougher, shoot them up kinds of stories, 513 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: something that can appeal to a white male audience essentially. 514 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: But now we got to talk about the game changer, 515 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: and I have a feeling the podcast listeners have been 516 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: waiting for us to mention her name since they probably 517 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: saw the title of this podcast, because yes, she inspired 518 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: this whole thing, and she has gotten a lot of 519 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: conversations started of late about black female directors. And that 520 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: is the one and only Eva du Vernet. And she 521 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: became the first black female director nominated for a Golden 522 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: Globe for Best Director for her film Selma. She was 523 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: beat by, of course, Richard link Later for Boyhood, but 524 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: Spike Lee for his film Do the Right Thing and 525 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: Steve McQueen for Twelve Years of Slave were the only 526 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: other black directors ever nominated for a Golden Globe. Yeah, 527 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: and also not bad for someone who is on their 528 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: third film and also after making a mid career switch 529 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: from being in being a film publicist, to being like, hey, 530 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: you know what, I want to actually make these films, 531 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,959 Speaker 1: and she clearly has a knack for it. I mean, 532 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: Selma is not the first time d Rene has made headlines. 533 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: Her second feature, Middle of Nowhere, also attracted rave reviews, 534 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: also attracted successful sales, and won her the Best Director 535 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: award at sun Dance, which was huge. That was also 536 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: a first. She was the first black female director to 537 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: ever snag that award. Yeah, and her first feature film, 538 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: I Will Follow, came out inn So this is all 539 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: pretty rapid fire. I mean, she's she seems to be 540 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: a prolific filmmaker at this point so far. Um. Her 541 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: actual directorial debut, however, was a two thousand eight documentary 542 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: This is the Life. And I think I think that's interesting. 543 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: I think that goes back to what we established at 544 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: the top of the podcast as far as people who 545 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: have different perspectives, not just women of color directors, but 546 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: women directors or really any person of color. They almost 547 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: have to enter certain industries, certain fields through an alternative 548 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: route in order to get funding or to get the 549 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: eyeballs on their projects. And so she, like many other 550 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: women directors of color, started out in the documentary Field 551 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 1: and quickly going back though to Sundance in the importance 552 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: of that platform, particularly for UH filmmakers of color and 553 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: women filmmakers. That so, when Julie dash was bringing Daughters 554 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,080 Speaker 1: of the Dust to sun Dance back in the day A, 555 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: that was when Richard link Later was bringing Slackers as well. 556 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: So I mean, this is clearly you know, she was 557 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: up against some some tough competition. But then link Letter 558 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: comes swoops back and again beating out du Vernay years 559 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: down the road for Best Director at the Golden Globes 560 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: for Boyhood, which is a film I really enjoyed a 561 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: lot as well. Um, but we're not here to talk 562 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: about Richard link Later, and obviously we need to talk 563 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: about the Oscar snub that everybody's been talking about. With 564 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: Duvernet and her film Salma. She does talk about how 565 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: this not being nominated for Best Director was something that 566 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: she expected. She was talking about this with Entertainment Weekly, 567 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: and you know, she said it would be lovely and 568 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: when it happens to whomever it happens to, it will 569 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: certainly have meaning. But she knew it wouldn't be her. 570 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: She says, it's not me being humble, it's math. And 571 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: so when you look at that math, we have to 572 00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: look at how the nominating branch, the director nominating branch 573 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: of the Academy is uh, male, white. Yeah, I mean, 574 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: directors nominate directors, actors nominate actors. And I mean and 575 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: that's so the cards are kind of stacked against I mean, 576 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:16,959 Speaker 1: she she said outright, she was like, I don't have 577 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: any allies within that group. That group is outside of 578 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 1: my network. And she also, though did not play politics publicly, 579 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: bristling at negative critiques of President Johnson's portrayal in Selma, 580 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 1: where he is highly resistant to signing the Voting Rights Act, 581 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: and there was a lot of you know, or grumbling 582 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: about that, and she came out on Twitter and was like, 583 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: you know, basically saying, this is ridiculous. Um, you know, 584 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 1: historical revisions just period happened in in any of these 585 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: kinds of films. But she was getting particularly lambassad for 586 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:57,759 Speaker 1: and she she had nothing to do with it. And 587 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,240 Speaker 1: there were some members of the Academy of Motion Picture 588 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: Arts and Science who were like, you know what, I 589 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 1: didn't like that. I really didn't like that. She should 590 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: have she should have played the politics better. Well, you know, 591 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 1: the speaking of the Academy, they do have their first 592 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 1: black female president, Cheryl Boone Isaacs, and that though did 593 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: not stop one anonymous Academy member from making a comment 594 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: to Entertainment Weekly about quote, it's almost like, because she 595 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: is African American, we should have made her one of 596 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: our nominees. I think that's racist. Look at what we 597 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: did with twelve Years and that makes me like roll 598 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: my eyes so hard that they fall out of my head, 599 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:41,319 Speaker 1: because there seems to be a really common perception that 600 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 1: just because Twelve Years of Slave was recognized for the 601 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: filmmaking and the acting and the directing, that that should 602 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 1: somehow be enough, right, and then last year was the 603 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,800 Speaker 1: was the year for a black director? Yeah, basically basically. 604 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: But also that leads us back to that whole discussion 605 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: of but is that the only story that we allow 606 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: black directors and writers to tell and black actors to 607 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: portray only stories about slavery? What about just modern stories 608 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 1: about humanity? You know? And you know, going back to 609 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 1: Julie Dash's film Daughters of the Dusk, there are other 610 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: stories to tell that aren't just about slavery. And it 611 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: does seem though like Durna is taking it completely into stride. 612 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 1: First of all, she wasn't expected if she were even nominated. 613 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: She knew she was never gonna win. And she's taking 614 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,879 Speaker 1: cues at this point from Katherine Bigelow and figuring out 615 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: how to be the very first black female director of 616 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: her caliber. She told Entertainment Weekly quote, I'm trying to 617 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: be clear and follow my own footsteps because there is 618 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: no black woman's footsteps to follow. So I mean, she 619 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 1: she could absolutely be the game changer. I mean, she's 620 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: not going to stop making films anytime soon, and she is. 621 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: I mean, she's the one, could be early, she could 622 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,359 Speaker 1: be the one. But the problem is, why is there 623 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 1: just the one? Yeah? Well, it's it's like we talked 624 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: about so much on the podcast around so many different issues, 625 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: and it's that issue of visibility normalizing an idea, whether 626 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,760 Speaker 1: that's an idea about women in general, women in color 627 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,400 Speaker 1: in this case, it's women in front of and behind 628 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: the camera. The more we say, look, a black woman 629 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,320 Speaker 1: can tell a story that appeals to to wide audiences 630 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: and and or not or tell a story that's very 631 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: specific to a certain subset or community of people. That's 632 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,319 Speaker 1: fine too, But you know the fact that there are 633 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: so many hurdles to overcome is discouraging, but I think 634 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: someone like Duvernet is a great figure to have in 635 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 1: the news right now because it seems like she's sort 636 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:53,759 Speaker 1: of kicking butt and taking names and I'll tell you 637 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: what like and and she's not the only one in 638 00:37:56,239 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: Hollywood doing that. Just judging off the Twitter reaction to 639 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 1: a simple question of like, hey, who should we shout 640 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:09,359 Speaker 1: out for this podcast episode and the enormous response from that, 641 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: it's clear that these women are I mean, they're almost 642 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: they're not blind to the barriers, but they're working in 643 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 1: spite of them, and they're not backing down anytime soon, 644 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: and they're active and their vocal and they are banging 645 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: down the doors, and we're hopefully doing our part to 646 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: spread the visibility and awareness around that. Yeah, they're out there, 647 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: they're making films, and they're important films to watch and 648 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: important directors to watch out for. Yeah, so please please 649 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: listeners right in and tell us your favorite directors, women, 650 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,360 Speaker 1: women of color, anyone who has creative films that have 651 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: meant a lot to you. And we also like to 652 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 1: hear recommendations along these same lines for films that we 653 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,760 Speaker 1: should be watching some of these movies that were listed 654 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 1: in our research I had never heard of but can't 655 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 1: wait to watch. So email us Mom Stuff at how 656 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 1: stuffworks dot com is our email address. You can also 657 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,360 Speaker 1: tweet us at Mom's Stuff podcast. And if you're on 658 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 1: Twitter and want to stay in the loop on what 659 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 1: women of color are up to behind the camera, I 660 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:12,280 Speaker 1: highly recommend that you follow the hashtag kickstart diversity and 661 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,279 Speaker 1: don't forget. You can always message us on Facebook as well, 662 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: and we've got a couple of messages to share with 663 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:23,240 Speaker 1: you right now. I have a letter here from Searn 664 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,880 Speaker 1: that is not necessarily about a particular episode that Kristen 665 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: and I published, more about a an unfortunate verbal vomiting 666 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: issue that we have. And I wrote her back and 667 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: I thanked her for pointing this out, But okay, let's 668 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,799 Speaker 1: get to it. She says, I really enjoyed listening to 669 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,760 Speaker 1: your podcast. Before I started listening, I would have never 670 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 1: thought myself a feminist, but listening has made me realize 671 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 1: how it is a positive thing to be. However, I 672 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 1: do have a small point to make. When discussing issues 673 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,759 Speaker 1: affecting women outside of the USA, you often interchange UK 674 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: and British with England and englandh as. I'm sure you 675 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 1: know the UK is made up of England, Wales, Scotland 676 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: and Northern Ireland. When you discuss issues that affect British 677 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,760 Speaker 1: women but use the word English, you were ignoring several 678 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,960 Speaker 1: million women with devolution of certain powers to local governments 679 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 1: in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. It is possible when 680 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: you discuss certain issues it may be something which may 681 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: affect English women only, but the majority will be issues 682 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 1: affecting British women. Keep the podcast coming, so thank you, 683 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,439 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you so much to our Welsh fan 684 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,359 Speaker 1: Sharn for pointing this out. Yes, in the process of 685 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 1: citing all of the studies that we do site in 686 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:41,959 Speaker 1: every episode, we trip up sometimes, so thanks for thanks 687 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 1: for really kindly pointing this out. We love kind corrections 688 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 1: are the best kind of corrections. I'm gonna let her 689 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 1: here from Mary Rose about our Gay Best Friend episode 690 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,319 Speaker 1: which we have been hearing so much about, and these 691 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,840 Speaker 1: letters are fantastic. Keep them coming, she writes. After listening 692 00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: to your podcast on the Gay Best Friend, I wanted 693 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,800 Speaker 1: to put my two cents in regarding lesbians and friends 694 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: and my experience. Both myself and most lesbians that I 695 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: know have straight women as our bff. I do have 696 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: some lesbian friends, but as I imagine happens with straight people, 697 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 1: there can be tension there sometimes, which can lead to drama, 698 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,360 Speaker 1: which is not fun. I know many lesbians do remain 699 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 1: friends with their exes, but that's probably a whole other podcast. 700 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,280 Speaker 1: I also have gay male friends that I enjoy immensely, 701 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,760 Speaker 1: and a few straight male friends, but my closest friends 702 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 1: are straight women. I do think that most lesbians tend 703 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,640 Speaker 1: to be closer to women overall, regardless of they're gay 704 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,719 Speaker 1: or straight or somewhere in between. So thanks Mary Rose 705 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: and everybody else who's written into us. Mom Stuff at 706 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,840 Speaker 1: how stuffworks dot com is our email address and for 707 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:45,880 Speaker 1: links to all of our social media as well as 708 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,919 Speaker 1: all of our blogs, videos and podcasts, as well as 709 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,840 Speaker 1: our list of women of color behind the camera that 710 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 1: you should pay attention to. That on over to stuff 711 00:41:56,120 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You dot com for more on this 712 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,880 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works 713 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:13,440 Speaker 1: dot com