1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you so much as always 3 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: for tuning in. That's the first gentleman of our podcast. 4 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: Our super producer, mister Max Williams. 5 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 2: I've actually always dreamed of being a house Husband's a 6 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 2: posh gag right there. 7 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: In late stage capitalism. Are you kidding? What are we 8 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: doing here, you guys? I am Ben Bullet. That's mister 9 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: Noel Brown. Hello, Hello, sir. We are talking about something 10 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: that was in the news again quite recently, the historical 11 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:08,479 Speaker 1: concept here in the United States of something called the 12 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: first lady. 13 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 3: So every floats, yes, Fay. 14 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: Yes, Flotus and Potus what a power couple. So historically speaking, 15 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: every single US president so far has had a person 16 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 1: close to them assuming the role of first lady. Generally 17 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: most of the time, especially in recent years, the first 18 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: Lady of the United States, or Flotus, as you pointed out, 19 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: has been the spouse of the current president, but that 20 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: was not always the case. 21 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 4: That's right, and just really quickly that I just thought 22 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 4: it might be worth mentioning for anyone overseas or anyone 23 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 4: here in the United States and maybe isn't up on 24 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 4: this kind of stuff. What does the first lady do exactly? 25 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 4: It can mean lots of things. They are often charity 26 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 4: events and things and causes that you know, various first 27 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 4: ladies throughout history have sort of taken on. There is 28 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 4: the role of essentially being a presidential liaison of sorts. 29 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 4: Oftentimes they interface and interact with kids and education a lot. 30 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 4: But it is kind of an amorphous role and depending 31 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 4: on the first lady can be a lot of different things, right. 32 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, because first ladies don't always have to be spousands. 33 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: There could be daughters, sisters, nieces, and as we'll see 34 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: in later explorations, it goes pretty wide. It goes wider 35 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: than that, because there is no thing, no language in 36 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: the Constitution requiring the existence or the role of a 37 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: flutus of a first lady. It's one of those rule 38 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,679 Speaker 1: of thumb things, always been a tradition, and I love 39 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: that you're pointing out the relatively a morphous nature of this. 40 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: First ladies are a golden goose for media, for documentaries, podcasts, books, 41 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: scholarly papers, but there's no legal definition. It's kind of 42 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: a thing of it's kept of a matter of what you, 43 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: as flutis want to do. Some are definitely more active 44 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 1: than others. 45 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 4: I will read a quick excerpt from who is a 46 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 4: First Lady from the Nationalparkservice dot gov website INPs dot gov. 47 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 4: A director of social affairs, presidential aison, symbol of strength, 48 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 4: policy advocate, political reformer, keeper of the people's house. Yes, 49 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 4: that's interesting, partner and confidant. The first ladies of the 50 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 4: United States have taken on numerous roles throughout American history. 51 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 4: As the cultural milieu shifted, so did the expectations and 52 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 4: responsibilities of a first lady. 53 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: Yes, they shift back and forth. With that I'll see 54 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: you there on National Park Service and also go to 55 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: the White House Historical Association, a great summation written by 56 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: Rosie Kine. And this is with big thanks to our 57 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: research associate, Jeff white House History dot org. They say, commentators, scholars, 58 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: and American society have typically defined the role of first 59 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: lady by marriage, elevating the status of the presidential spouse, 60 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: rather than focusing on the duties performed by these individuals, 61 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: hosting events, personal political confidante to the president, supporting political 62 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: and social causes, which we'll get to, and then historically 63 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: serving as a symbolic model. Dare I say propaganda of 64 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: what American womanhood means at the time of that administration 65 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: or to that administration. 66 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 4: I guess the reason I cringed a little bit at 67 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 4: that because it sort of comes off somewhat as sort 68 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 4: of America's housekeeper, which feels. 69 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: A little dated. 70 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 3: I don't know about you. 71 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:08,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, these individuals are often called white House hostesses because 72 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,239 Speaker 1: a lot of what they're doing is what we would 73 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 1: deem soft diplomacy, you know what I mean, figuring out 74 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: how to run the party. Let's get to Let's get 75 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: to one of our first or two of our first examples. 76 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 1: Old Thomas Jefferson, a uniquely humble guy, the kind of 77 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: dude who had the modesty to look at the Christian 78 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: Bible and say, I have some notes. 79 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 4: So Thomas Jefferson, call him TJ for ridiculous history purposes. 80 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 4: He actually had two unconventional first ladies, one being his 81 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 4: daughter Martha and the other being his buddy James Madison's 82 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 4: wife Dolly. This is a sad story, however, because it 83 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 4: is due to the fact that his wife passed away 84 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 4: twenty years before his inauguration and I. 85 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: Would say even the propaganda of this was even more 86 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: important in the early days of the United States. Yes, 87 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: Thomas Jefferson's wife, Martha sadly passed away long before he 88 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: ascended to the position of potus. So as a result 89 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: of this unfortunate passing, when Thomas Jefferson ascends to the 90 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: office of potus, they need someone to fill that first 91 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: lady role. His eldest daughter, Martha Jefferson Randolph, steps in 92 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 1: and she becomes the first lady, the lead host for 93 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: everyone visiting the presidency when it is the Jefferson administration. 94 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: She goes on and we're leaning again on White Househistory 95 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 1: dot org. Here a great bio of Martha Jefferson Randolph. 96 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 1: She goes on to get a private education, and let's 97 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: be honest, not all women can get this. In the 98 00:06:55,400 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds, she travels with her father T. Jeffy across 99 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: the world. She marries a guy named Thomas Mann Randolph 100 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: on February twenty third, seventeen ninety. Shout out to our 101 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: earlier honorific episode, this is her relative, but it's a 102 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: distant relative, you know what I mean, Like it's okay, 103 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:23,239 Speaker 1: it's a ish Okay, yeah, they take it, allow it. 104 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 4: It's certainly better than you know, other examples of cousin Mary. 105 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. They have twelve children together, Thomas Mann Randolph and Martha, 106 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: eleven of. 107 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 3: Whom Man Randolph. That's great. I don't know, I like 108 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 3: the sound of that. 109 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: Eleven of these children, these issue they survived to adulthood. 110 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: The couples live in at Jefferson's plantation Monticello. We could 111 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: do multiple episodes about. 112 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 4: That, right, I mean, we do know, of course that 113 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 4: Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner. 114 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 3: Yes, not great. 115 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 4: Martha was the head of that households and kind of 116 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 4: handled all of the affairs and managed the staff, and. 117 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 3: That included the enslaved workers, which right rough. 118 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: And she was doing this not just at her dad's 119 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: spot Monticello, but also at her husband's plantation Edge Hill. 120 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: So Thomas Jefferson fast forward, he's elected to the presidency, 121 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: and when he is, his eldest daughter travels up to 122 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: DC and she serves as what they call the White 123 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: House hostess during the winter social seasons to eighteen oh three, 124 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: at eighteen oh five to eighteen oh six, I look 125 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: the idea of social seasons like the galas, the balls, 126 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,479 Speaker 1: the fundraising meetings. It still happens in certain upper echelons 127 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 1: of US society, and it always seems so silly to me. 128 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 4: And there's a winter social season. Surely there's a summer 129 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 4: social season as well. They require wearing. 130 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: Of different hats and garments, you know, more flowy white 131 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: garments in the summer, and perhaps you know a little 132 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: more bundled up in the win Why are you wearing 133 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: a tuxedo? Jack? It's after seven? Lemon? What am I 134 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: a farmer? 135 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,719 Speaker 3: One? Am I a farmer? Very good? Very good? Thirty rock? 136 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 4: That relationship that will they won't they? Of Liz Lemon 137 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 4: and Jack Donaghan never ceases to entertain me. Yeah, excellent 138 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 4: rewatchability factor. 139 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: Absolutely, the density of jokes. My favorite is the one 140 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: throwaway line my new single, My new single is Dropping, 141 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: is Dropping. That's Tracy Jordan's wife when she becomes part 142 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: of a reality show. 143 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 4: You just scrambled my brains. And as for the will 144 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 4: they won't they? Of Liz and Jack, they won't they? 145 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 4: It's not meant to be sexual attention. It's more of 146 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,319 Speaker 4: a mentor mentee relationship. 147 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: Very lost in translation. I guess there is a little 148 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: of that. 149 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 3: I just who was I listening to? 150 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 4: It was the blank Check podcast with Griffin and David, 151 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 4: who I love dearly. They were talking about how every 152 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 4: time someone points out this idea of simmering sexual attention 153 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,679 Speaker 4: on the show, both Jack and Liz get intensely annoyed. 154 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: Yeah right, I mean, picture your dad naked or don't 155 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? That's what it's going towards south. So, 156 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,719 Speaker 1: speaking of close relationships with one's pattern familius master of 157 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: the segue, Thank you, sir. Martha is doing really well 158 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: at first because during these social seasons, in her role 159 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,559 Speaker 1: functionally as the first Lady, she is a huge advocate 160 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: for Tommy Jeff's career, and she gets a reputation in 161 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,839 Speaker 1: the salons, in the philosophical discourse of the day. People 162 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: are looking around and saying, hey, you know, I know 163 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: she's the president's kid. But even with all that aside, 164 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: she's really smart. She's a cracker. 165 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 4: Jack attending salons, you know, intellectual discussions and all of 166 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 4: that stuff. 167 00:10:56,160 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: But behind the headlines, behind those happy conversations, there are 168 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: financial difficulties. Both her husband Man Randolph and her father 169 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: Tommy Jay are continually worried about the coin, so her 170 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: father dies in eighteen twenty six spoiler, and the family 171 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: is forced to sell Monticello. Martha moves to Tufton to 172 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: live with her eldest son, Thomas Jefferson Randolph. And at 173 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: this point, I want to take a moment and say 174 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: there's a diminishing return with remixing family names. At some point, 175 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: give someone a cool family name, Thomas Jefferson Randolph. You 176 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: could have just added the middle name with something cool, 177 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: like Dash or Fox or ziggy. 178 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 4: I do like man Randolph, though I've got to say 179 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 4: I'm not gonna lie. 180 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 3: Did jump in here? 181 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 2: This reminds me of John Adams second, who is the 182 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 2: son of John Quincy Adams right, who was obviously the 183 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 2: son of John Adams. And also John Adams married his 184 00:11:58,240 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 2: first cousin. 185 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: It's rough, man, It's just like a friendy magical realism. 186 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: Nerds in the crowd. It's just like One hundred Years 187 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez. The most difficult thing 188 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: about reading that book is everybody has some combination of 189 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 1: the same, like three to four names. Anyway, always give 190 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: your kids a back pocket middle name to differentiate themselves 191 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: if you take nothing else from this. Ultimately we know 192 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: that Martha also, despite having so many kids with man Randolph, 193 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: she ultimately went on the rocks. Their marriage was not 194 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: its best, they were estranged for a long time, and 195 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: right before he dies in eighteen twenty eight, she reconciles 196 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,839 Speaker 1: with him and then she spends the rest of her 197 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: life sort of moving around the United States, living with 198 00:12:56,040 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: her children on their property, sometimes in Boston, sometimes DC 199 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: or Virginia. And then upon her death, she is buried 200 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: alongside her husband and her father at Monticello. And then 201 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: along comes Dollie. 202 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 4: Entered Dolly Madison, who was doing some pretty clever political maneuverings, 203 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 4: you know, within her role as First Lady, she was 204 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 4: essentially trying to ensure that her husband, James Madison would 205 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 4: become the next president. 206 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And going back to White househistory dot org, 207 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: we see that there's a vinn diagram of first Lady 208 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: or floatis hood a dumb word we just made up. 209 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 1: Dolly Madison is unofficially doing some whispering to the kingmakers, right, 210 00:13:54,960 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: and during the Jefferson administration, her husband James is Secretary 211 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: of State and the entire time she's stepping in. You know, hey, 212 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 1: if Martha can't make it, I'm happy to host this gala, 213 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, I'll receive the ambassador from wherever. 214 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 4: So they were essentially doing this kind of in tandem, 215 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,479 Speaker 4: Martha and Dolly splitting up the duties. 216 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: Kind of alternating, sort of a double dragon situation. For 217 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: anybody who played an increasingly obscure video game, love a 218 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: good beat them up? Yeah, yeah, I love a good scroller. 219 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: And every time, this is a true story, folks, every 220 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: time my pal Nola and I are on the road, 221 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: we do look for an arcade if it's available, right, 222 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: love a good arcade. 223 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 4: If anybody ever finds themselves in the Atlanta area, I 224 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 4: highly recommend. I believe it's called Round One at the 225 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 4: Cumberland Mall, which is a cornucopia of incredible claw machines 226 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 4: and obscure Japanese fighting cabinet games that characters you've never 227 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 4: heard of, not to mention, like every rhythm game you 228 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 4: could possibly want to try your hand at. And I 229 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 4: think there are some elsewhere in the country too, So 230 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 4: look into Round One if you're seeking a rat arcade. 231 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're a chain. And speaking of shades of power. Right, 232 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: come on, So eighteen oh one, let's learn a little 233 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: bit of background. Dolly and her husband, James, who gets 234 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: famous for other things later. They moved to d C 235 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: because James is Secretary of State and he's it's a 236 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: friendship hire Tommy j hires him, And because Jefferson is 237 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: a widower, Dolly is periodically assisting Jefferson, primarily when other 238 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: women are visiting the White House or visiting the President. 239 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: So it's not just Tommy Jay hanging out in a room. 240 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 4: No, she's hosting these social gatherings or you know, like 241 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 4: hosting the wives of powerful men, and by you know, 242 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 4: getting in their good graces. Less had a pretty close 243 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 4: walk to influencing some of these powerful men as well. 244 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: And she also, to your excellent point about political machination, 245 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: she also created an alternative hub of power over at 246 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: the Madison House, which was on f Street. What one 247 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: Washingtonian observed during this time was the following quote. After 248 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: the presidents, the House of the Secretary of State was 249 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: the resort of most company. Politicians and diplomats could not 250 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: resist Dolly's conciliatory disposition, her frank, gracious manners. They frequented 251 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: her evening circle and sat at her husband's table, so 252 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: she was the after party as well. 253 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the afters indeed. 254 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 4: And Dolly does get a lot of attention in the 255 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 4: conversation surrounding first ladies, I think because she was so 256 00:16:55,280 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 4: charming and she was also so politically adapt But I 257 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 4: don't think she came off as being duplicitous necessarily either. 258 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 3: She navigated it all, you know, with grace. I would say, I. 259 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 1: Think history remembers her pretty fondly for all of this stuff. 260 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, one hundred percent, dude, because she understands the 261 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 1: we keep using the words symbolic. White House sources also 262 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: will use the word symbolic. But let's be honest, we're 263 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: talking propaganda, you know what I mean, Like how autorifics 264 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: are just fancy nicknames. Symbolic importance is just propaganda importance 265 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: at this point, That's right. 266 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 4: So Dolly basically becomes the quintessential first Lady and that 267 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 4: kind of prototype for the model of American womanhood that 268 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 4: we mentioned at the top of the show because of 269 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 4: all of these you know, social graces and ability to 270 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 4: kind of. 271 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 3: Play a man's game, you know, with a woman's Wiles 272 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 3: or whatever there. I don't know. 273 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 4: I'm speaking in the parlance of the time, you know 274 00:17:58,720 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 4: what I mean. 275 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And Jefferson, for his part, Look, I think 276 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: a lot of people forget this about the. 277 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 3: Guy he is. 278 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: He's got big startup CEO energy, right, he's very much 279 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: the guy who says, look, let's be informal, you know, 280 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: the United States, it's an experiment. We're throwing out all 281 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: that stuffy old world, the trappings, the morays, the trappings, 282 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 1: the values. So we're not gonna sit people in this 283 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: rigid diplomatic hierarchy. You come to hang out with me, 284 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: your boy President Tommy, jeff just figure out where you 285 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,360 Speaker 1: want to sit for dinner, you know, and then we'll 286 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: just hang out. And Dolly becomes the social glue or 287 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: the bridge between these two very different worlds. Sometimes it 288 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: triggers international incidents. 289 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 3: That's right, I mean. 290 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,679 Speaker 1: But you know, she did become an international figure because 291 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 1: of some of these examples, one of which involved Jefferson 292 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: creating a serious international kerfuffle in eighteen oh three by 293 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: escorting Dolly to the dinner table instead of the wife 294 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: of a British ambassador by the name of Anthony Mary, 295 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 1: who I'm sure we all know and remember. 296 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 4: Yet one hundred percent some of those stuffy kind of 297 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 4: mores and hierarchies that we had mentioned, or that you 298 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 4: had mentioned, Ben would have dictated that that be the move. 299 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 4: But instead they were kind of righting their own rules. 300 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 4: And maybe that flies, you know, in their own country, 301 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 4: but with when folks are coming in from outside of 302 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 4: the United States, kind of important to play by their 303 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 4: rules at least to some degree, wouldn't you say? And 304 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 4: doctor plomacy is right sort of writing that fine. 305 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 1: Line meeting in the middle, before you push the envelope 306 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: or before you take somewhere. It's someone somewhere, you have 307 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: to find them where they're at. This sounds weird, but 308 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: it was a very big deal. It's eighteen oh three 309 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:03,479 Speaker 1: picture The Night of Dolly is trying to get Tommy 310 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: Jeff to do the right thing, and she's say, no, no, 311 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: don't take me, you gotta this is very important to 312 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: these weird British people. 313 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 4: She's demonstrating some more diplomatic chops than the press. 314 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 1: Cultural knowledge like in certain areas of the Middle East, 315 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 1: shouldn't eat with your left hand nor shake with it. 316 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: She knew all of these tips and tricks. Jefferson either 317 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,959 Speaker 1: didn't know or because of his big startup energy, he 318 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 1: didn't care. Anthony Mary and the Mary missus were not 319 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: fans of this. They felt snubbed, and it became something 320 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: called the Mary affair. Just so, petty, who walks to 321 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: dinner in what order? That's wild. 322 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 4: It's just it's another example that we see all the 323 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:53,399 Speaker 4: time in history, how one seemingly insignificant events or a 324 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 4: you know, like a butterfly effect type situation can lead 325 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 4: to toppling dominoes, you know, further down the line, and can. 326 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 3: Actually cause hot wars. 327 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 4: I mean, like you know, I mean the assassination of 328 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 4: Archduke Franz Ferdinand for example. 329 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 3: You know, a big deal. 330 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: A person was killed, of course, but it would not 331 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: have at the time, seemed to be enough to set 332 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 1: off this powder keg that would lead to a world war. 333 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: We're not dealing with those kind of stakes here, but 334 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: it did increase some already pretty you know, rough political 335 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: tensions between the United States and the United Kingdom, you know, 336 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: for reasons I can't imagine all other things were at play. Yeah, 337 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: the powder keg situation almost always occurs because there were 338 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: rising tensions that were sort of waiting for an ignition point, 339 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: and that's what happened with Franz Ferdinand. This is also 340 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: what could have happened with the Merry incident, because from 341 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: the perspective of the ambassador from Great Britain, it's a 342 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 1: matter of not something pet it's a matter of do 343 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 1: you respect the king, do you respect the empire? 344 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 4: And as like we don't though right isn't necessari we 345 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 4: don't like kings here. 346 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: So you know, it hasn't been that far removed from 347 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: the old American revolutions. The tensions are incredibly high still, 348 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't you say, Yeah, people are still alive remembering this. 349 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 1: You know, it's not like hanging out in Manchester and 350 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: taking the piss out with some of your friends about 351 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: the revolution. This is very close to everybody's heart and 352 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: experience at this point. So to Anthony Mary, he is 353 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: the avatar of the King, of the state, of the 354 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,719 Speaker 1: power of Great Britain. So if you do something wrong 355 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,640 Speaker 1: or out of diplomatic protocol, even if he personally doesn't care, 356 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 1: you have now besmirched the dignity. 357 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 3: Of the state. 358 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 4: You have insulted the King himself. You may as well 359 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 4: have spat in his face, you know exactly. 360 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: And Dolly again, we can't shout her out enough. Dolly 361 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: works within these nuances of culture. She is plugged into 362 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 1: all of the feminine power makers in these diplomatic circles. 363 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: So she says, look, we don't want to have this 364 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: blow up any more than it already has. So she 365 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: reaches out not directly to Elizabeth Mary Anthony, Mary's wife 366 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: who apparently got dissed. She goes through a common friend 367 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: of a friend, the wife of the Spanish ambassador. They 368 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: make friends. There's a lot of you know, house of 369 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: cards kind of maneuvering here, and eventually they bury the hatchet. 370 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 1: They succeed in inviting the Mary's over to dinner at 371 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: her home, at Madison's f Street home. So she may 372 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 1: have saved the day in a way that history ignores. 373 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 4: Well, she tried to prevent the whole affair in the 374 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 4: first place, and just you know, Jefferson didn't listen to her, 375 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 4: and then she ended up having to clean up his mess. 376 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 4: I wonder why he didn't listen. 377 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 1: To her, Probably because she was a woman, Yeah, but 378 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: I just you know, he's doing it sort of in 379 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: it's in her favor, right, like to escort her, and 380 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: she's saying, you know, no, it's it's the better move 381 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 1: to escort the wife of the diplomat, and he is 382 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 1: he just doesn't like to be told what to do 383 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: or is he actively pushing back against the idea of 384 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 1: following the British. 385 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 3: Kind of code. 386 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 1: I would go with the ladder there too. It seems 387 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: very not very smart. No, but you know, not a 388 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: hill dying on. Yeah. No, not everybody's smart all the time. 389 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: This leads us to another example again this will probably 390 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: be a continuing series, but Andrew Jackson, worst dude. You 391 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: have famously not a great president. He and not a 392 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: good person right neither. He also had to first ladies, 393 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: there was some weird, as Jeff points out, some weird 394 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: legality of marriage stuff going on with his first wife. 395 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 1: Excellent diplomacy there, Jeff. 396 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 4: It would seem that some of those negative qualities that 397 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:25,360 Speaker 4: we hinted at led to quite the scandal with his 398 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 4: first wife. She did not even make it to his 399 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 4: inauguration because she's sadly due to something an amorphous sickness 400 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 4: that seemed to be brought on by just like anxiety 401 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 4: around the way she was treated by Andrew Jackson. Do 402 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 4: you have any more details around that, guys. 403 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:49,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, Rachel Jackson was the if. She died on December 404 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: twenty second, eighteen twenty eight. She had lived with Jackson 405 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: at the Hermitage, but she died just days after his 406 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: election and before auguration, which was in eighteen twenty nine, 407 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 1: so she never served as first Lady. But you gotta 408 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 1: have a first lady at this point in time, you 409 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: got to have somebody being the White House host individual. 410 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: So according to our pal Jeff, there's another story with 411 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: Rachel Jackson in particular that doesn't even touch on his 412 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: official to first ladies. The duties of the first Lady 413 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:32,959 Speaker 1: after Rachel Jackson dies go to her niece, Emily Donaldson. 414 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 3: And you know, I do have to ask. 415 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 4: It seems like it's up to the discretion of the 416 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 4: president and his advisors as to who the right person 417 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 4: is to kind of step into that role, because there 418 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 4: is no line of succession per se. 419 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: Right, No, there are no what is this Europe? Yes, 420 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: there are no rigid, rigid instructions Nora Rubric on what 421 00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: to do. We know that Rachel Jackson was viciously attacked 422 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: in the press, so much so that it probably traumatized her. 423 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: When she is buried in an area near Nashville, Tennessee, 424 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:17,360 Speaker 1: her epitaph bears the following a being so gentle and 425 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: so virtuous, slander might wound but could not Dishonor so 426 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:27,479 Speaker 1: it seems that Andrew Jackson was so angry about the 427 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: campaign slurs hurled against his wife that he needed that 428 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 1: carved in stone on her grave. 429 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:36,479 Speaker 3: Am I miss speaking? 430 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, it does seem like his first wife. 431 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 4: Her condition worsened as a result of stress. 432 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 1: Absolutely, that's yeah traumatic, you know. And she she was 433 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: born in Virginia. She traveled through the wilderness of Tennessee 434 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: with her parents when she was frontier baby, Yeah, frontier baby. 435 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 1: She also was previously married before she married Jackson, which 436 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: was a big, big deal in a big bad way 437 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: at that point likely. 438 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 3: Would have been used as ammunition in that slander campaign. 439 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. So she marries this guy, Lewis Roberts when she 440 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: is seventeen. He is the child of a very big 441 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: deal family in Mercer County, and apparently he was quite 442 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: the jealous husband, so much so that it made her 443 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:33,120 Speaker 1: a living situation impossible. They separate in seventeen ninety and 444 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: then she gets word not from him, that he's filing 445 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: for divorce. Divorce can always be a traumatic, messy thing. 446 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: But folks, we're a little bit better off in twenty 447 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: twenty five than we are in seventeen ninety. Eventually the 448 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: divorce goes through, Andrew Jackson marries her the next year, 449 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: or they think the divorce goes through. Record scratch Max. 450 00:28:58,720 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. 451 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: Turns out turns out that the the later president and 452 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: his new wife learned that this first husband, Lewis Roberts, 453 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: didn't get a divorce, actually he just got permission to 454 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: file one. And so when they get married, this guy 455 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: comes back out from the blue and sues them on 456 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: the grounds of adulterery. 457 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 3: Wow. 458 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 4: Not a good pr moment for the for the would 459 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,719 Speaker 4: be president. After the divorce was finally granted, the Jackson's 460 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 4: remarried in seventeen ninety four, and they, you know that 461 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 4: this was no particular fault of their own. 462 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 3: You know, this was something that just was not clear. 463 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 4: And you know, we know also that the communication lines 464 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 4: of communication were slow. If things like the court systems 465 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 4: grind slowly today, back in those days due to the 466 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 4: fact that you couldn't even get word to somebody about 467 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 4: something that would have been exponentially lower those whispers, however, 468 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 4: because of that a word, that scarlet letter, adultery and bigamy, 469 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 4: even the rumors just kind of wouldn't stop, and they 470 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 4: followed Rachel around as Jackson started to make his rise in. 471 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: Politics and as a general, Yeah, he was quick to 472 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: be super hot headed about any of these rumors. If 473 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: he heard someone saying them in person, it was smash 474 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: on site. He was ready to fight with you. 475 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 4: I think where I did misspeak slightly is you know, 476 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 4: we know Andrew Jackson had some serious moral issues, you know, 477 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 4: and was very aggressive dude. It would seem, though, however, 478 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 4: that the stress that led to Rachel's untimely passing was 479 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 4: less caused by him than it was caused by just 480 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 4: what he was and represented and the need to kind 481 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 4: of tear him down a peg. And she was essentially 482 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 4: a target for that. He was going to every effort 483 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 4: that he could manage to defend her on her. 484 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was fighting the tabloids of the time. We 485 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: could say, and look, everybody who actually knew Rachel Jackson 486 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: again not officially a first lady. Everybody who knew her 487 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,959 Speaker 1: loved her because she was down home. You know, she 488 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: was not pretentious, she was very kind. A lot of 489 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: people might not even be fans of Andrew Jackson himself, 490 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: but when they go to the herbitage, they're welcomed as family. 491 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,959 Speaker 1: The Jacksons never have any children of their own, but 492 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: they take in a lot of Rachel's relatives, and she 493 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: had a ton of relatives. They adopted a nephew. They 494 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: named him, in a burst of creativity, Andrew Jackson Junior. 495 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. 496 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 4: They also raised other nephews as their own Andrew Jackson 497 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 4: Donaldson now who eventually married a cousin as well. First 498 00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 4: cousin that would see Emily, one of Rachel's favorite nieces. 499 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 3: So match made in heaven. There. 500 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 4: When Jackson was finally elected president, he planned to have 501 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 4: Donaldson serve as private secretary, with Emily hanging around to 502 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 4: keep Rachel company. 503 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and then, of course, as we mentioned, Rachel 504 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: Jackson passes away, and with this Emily gets an unforeseen promotion. 505 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: Jackson says, why don't you serve as the hostess? You 506 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: do the and again this is very dated. You do 507 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: the woman, folks, stuff that's what they're thinking. And she 508 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: is twenty one at this point. She enters the White House. 509 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: She takes care of everything, her her uncle, you know, 510 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: the President, her own husband. She has four children, three 511 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: are born at the White House, and she takes care 512 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: of visiting relatives and then official guest. It's a big 513 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: family in the White House at this time. And everybody 514 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: who'd be her again, they lover her. They say, look, 515 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: I might not agree with old Anty, but his sidekick 516 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: is awesome. And also she will stick up to the 517 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: President of the United States on issues of principle. If 518 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: she has a problem with something, if she thinks he's 519 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: you know, rolling off the road in one way or another, 520 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: then she is speaking truth to power, which is a 521 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: very difficult thing to do. But she also dies of 522 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: tuberculosis in eighteen thirty six, and so it came to 523 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: pass that during the last months of the Jackson administration. 524 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: Here we go more confusing names. Sarah York Jackson, who 525 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: is the wife of Andrew Jackson Junior, the adopted nephew, 526 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: functionally becomes the first lady. 527 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 3: That's right. 528 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 4: And you know, it's interesting how all of these first 529 00:33:55,000 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 4: ladies were so popular and so beloved despite Andrew Jackson 530 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 4: again being a bit of a pill and we yeah, 531 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 4: was he popular at the time though, I mean, I know, 532 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,439 Speaker 4: history remembers him for things like the Indian Removal Act 533 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 4: of eighteen thirty and you know, pushing for states rights 534 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 4: and ethnic cleansing, you know, of Native Americans from state lands, 535 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 4: and also being very aggressive towards the civil rights of 536 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,839 Speaker 4: free people of color, you know, and having also been 537 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 4: a pretty brutal slave owner himself. But I'm just wondering, 538 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 4: what was the feeling. A lot of people seemed like 539 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 4: they might have been cool with a lot of the 540 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 4: stuff in the day of his presidency. 541 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 1: Contemporarily, he did have a lot of opposition, but he 542 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 1: also had a lot of support. There's a reason he 543 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 1: became president. No, if you go back through one of 544 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: the favorite games of we historical president buffs, you'll see 545 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: that he is not ranked as low as a lot 546 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 1: of presidents. I'm best the worst, but he is not 547 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 1: ranked very high either. He was always polemical. He was 548 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: always a kind of demagogue. You know, crowds loved him, 549 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: they loved his speeches. He was very much against certain 550 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 1: aspects of banking. That part we could agree with. He 551 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 1: was opposed to the Second Bank of the United States because. 552 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 4: It wasn't there a scandal to where he removed deposits 553 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 4: of some kind and was censured by the legislature. 554 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: Well, the Second Bank was an absolute existential threat to 555 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 1: the idea of democracy. It was a private company, but 556 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: of it functioned as a government sponsored monopoly. And I 557 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,720 Speaker 1: do appreciate that you're doing the needful thing here as well, 558 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: which is he definitely participated in widespread genocidal attempts and 559 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 1: against Native American populations. You could put thousands of deaths 560 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 1: at his feet. And again, the terrifying thing is that 561 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: gained him a lot of support. So people might be 562 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 1: opposed to his ideas, but then when they meet when 563 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: they meet his niece, they think, here's someone I can 564 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: talk stuff out with. Or when they meet Sarah Yorke Jackson, 565 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 1: who is his adoptive daughter in law, they think, okay, 566 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: well I could talk to her. 567 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, And she continued to kind of carry the torch 568 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 4: of that role by hosting functions at the White House 569 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 4: along with Emily Donaldson, and when Donaldson departed two years later, 570 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 4: she took over fully. 571 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's learn a little bit about Sarah. Sarah 572 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:49,399 Speaker 1: Yorke is born somewhere in the early eighteen hundreds, right 573 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,839 Speaker 1: at the turn of the nineteenth century, eighteen oh three 574 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:56,240 Speaker 1: to eighteen oh five. She's in Philly. She is orphaned 575 00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: as a child. She is raised by relatives. She Andrew 576 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:05,840 Speaker 1: Jackson Junior that adopted son in eighteen thirty one, She 577 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: like so many others, lives at the Hermitage, and she, 578 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:16,839 Speaker 1: like other people, oversees the operation of the household, including 579 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 1: enslaved people on the property. And a fire damages the 580 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 1: Hermitage in eighteen thirty four. So Sarah York Jackson now 581 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 1: and her family moved to the White House, and she, 582 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 1: as you said, is assisting Emily Donaldson in these hosting 583 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:39,759 Speaker 1: positions Jackson, and she sees out the administration. She does 584 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:45,279 Speaker 1: this after Emily Donaldson passes. When Jackson leaves the presidency, 585 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: Sarah York Jackson and her family go back to Tennessee, 586 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,359 Speaker 1: and she takes care of her father in law, the 587 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: former president, until he passes away in eighteen forty five, 588 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 1: at which point the ownership of the hermitage goes to 589 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,919 Speaker 1: the adopted son, Andrew Jackson Junior, and get this nol. 590 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: He sells it. 591 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,240 Speaker 4: To pay off some bretty crippling debt in eighteen fifty six. 592 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,840 Speaker 4: So after Sarah's husband passed, she continued on at the 593 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 4: Hermitage until she passed away on August twenty third of 594 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 4: eighteen eighty seven. And she is buried there in a 595 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 4: cemetery on the grounds. 596 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: And with that, I propose that we haul it a 597 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: day here, because the next few first Lady Fluidis situations 598 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: we're examining get a little bit deeper for the scope 599 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 1: of today's episode. Today, we'll talk about Van Buren in 600 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:47,399 Speaker 1: our next exploration, and we will also light spoiler talk 601 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: about some floatist roles that were not occupied by women 602 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 1: at all. 603 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 4: Oh man, I can't wait. If you want to find 604 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 4: us on the internet, you can do so. I am 605 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,360 Speaker 4: at how now Noel Brown on Instagram, Ben, Where can 606 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 4: the fine ridiculous historians out in podcast land find you? 607 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 1: Yes? Should you care to sip the social meet to, 608 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: you can find me calling myself in a burst of 609 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: creativity at Ben Bullen on Instagram, at Ben Bullen hsw 610 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 1: on x, or the website Benbollan dot com. Big Big 611 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: thanks to mister Max Williams. Our research associate, Jeff. We 612 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,759 Speaker 1: need a good nickname for Jeff. We'll get there one day. 613 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: What do you got Do you got one? 614 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 3: Jeff mac Tonight, bartlet we go? I guys love that episode. Man, 615 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 3: what a fun discussing that was. 616 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 1: H Yeah, big, big thanks of course to aj Bahama's Jacobs, 617 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: to Jonathan Strickland aka the Quister, and Alex Tijuana Williams. 618 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 4: Indeed, Chris Frasciota Sieves, Jeffcoats here in spirit, Max Williams, 619 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:52,320 Speaker 4: the man behind the Curtain. 620 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,600 Speaker 1: Add big thanks to the curtain. We paid a pretty 621 00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: hefty price for it, but I think it's good. I 622 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: think it's cool for us to have a curtain we. 623 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 4: Got at the same time we got the giant Grandfather 624 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 4: clock that we occasionally referenced. 625 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes we did. And if you want to 626 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:12,280 Speaker 1: learn more about the mythos, please check out our past, present, 627 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: and future episodes. As always, thank you for tuning in, folks. 628 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 1: There's so much more to explore and we're glad you're 629 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,799 Speaker 1: doing it with us. And Noel, thank you to. 630 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,719 Speaker 3: You, Ah and you as well. Ben. We'll see you 631 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 3: next time, folks. 632 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,400 Speaker 4: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 633 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.