1 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: I started to realize that not being an expert isn't 2 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: a liability. It's a real guest. If we don't know 3 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: something about ourselves at this point in our life, it's 4 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: probably because it's uncomfortable to know. If you can die 5 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 1: before you die, then you can really live. There's a 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: wisdom at death's door. I thought I was insane. Yeah, 7 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: and I didn't know what to do because there was 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: no Internet. 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 2: I don't know, man, I'm like, I feel like everything 10 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 2: is hard. Hey, y'all, my name is Kat. I'm a 11 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 2: human first and a licensed therapist second. And right now 12 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 2: I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope encourage you 13 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 2: to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others, 14 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: and the world around you. 15 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to You Need Therapy. 16 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 2: Hi, and welcome back to another new episode of You 17 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 2: Need Therapy. My name is Kat and I'm the host Here. 18 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 2: It's another solo episode day here, and this week we're 19 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 2: talking about something that I've talked about a little bit before, 20 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 2: but I've never actually dedicated an entire episode. 21 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: About it on here. 22 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 2: And I think it is about time because there's enough 23 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 2: information around it that it could be not only its 24 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 2: own episode, but a series. It could be its own 25 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 2: podcast probably, but. 26 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: We're not gonna do that. 27 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 2: Before we get going, quick reminder that this is not therapy. 28 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 2: This is just me, a therapist talking about, you know, 29 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 2: things that have to do with mental health and things 30 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 2: that have to do with therapy. And also quick reminder 31 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 2: while we're here, if you want to follow me, you 32 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,839 Speaker 2: can on Instagram at Kat dot defada, or you can 33 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 2: follow the podcast at You Need Therapy Podcast. Okay, now 34 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 2: let's get into that episode. So we're talking about all 35 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 2: things gaslighting today and I hear this word being said 36 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 2: now more than ever, so I think it's important that 37 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 2: we stop and take some time to figure this out 38 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 2: so we can spot it ourselves and know when this 39 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 2: is actually occurring and when we maybe just might be 40 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 2: using the fancy word right. And we'll get to this later. 41 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 2: But there's a difference in the technique somebody uses when 42 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 2: attempting to create a gaslighting effect on somebody and the 43 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,959 Speaker 2: actual experience of being gas lit gas lighted. Not sure 44 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 2: which is correct. So anyway, somebody, like for example, somebody 45 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: denying something alone doesn't mean that they're gaslighting you, but 46 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 2: it could be part of it. So we'll get more 47 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 2: into that later, but that's one of the things that 48 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 2: I wanted to talk about. So what is gaslighting? Well, 49 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 2: and the most basic definition, gaslighting is a form of 50 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: psychological abuse, and it's where a person tries and successively 51 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 2: usually does make someone question their sanity or perception. 52 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: Or their reality. 53 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 2: And when you experience gaslighting, you're gonna feel confused, you'll 54 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 2: probably feel some anxiousness, and you stop being able to 55 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: trust yourself. However, when this starts, you don't actually know 56 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 2: that you're being gas lit, so those feelings feel very 57 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 2: like accurate and true. It's not like an anxious I 58 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 2: know I'm right and this person won't agree with you. 59 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 2: It's this anxiousness around, like I really start to question myself. 60 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 2: And this kind of manipulation doesn't just get thrown at you, 61 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 2: so it doesn't work that way. It doesn't start all 62 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 2: of a sudden, It slowly kind of creeps up, and 63 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 2: very often it starts with a love bombing experience, especially 64 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 2: when this happens in romantic relationships. And I didn't say 65 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 2: this up top, but gaslighting can happen in any kind 66 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 2: of relationship. A lot of times we hear stories about 67 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 2: it being in romantic relationships and partnerships, but this can 68 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 2: be friends, this can be a boss, this can be 69 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: a parent, it can be a leader of any sort. 70 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 2: There's a power differential there, but there's usually a experience 71 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 2: of this love bombing effect first, and we hear about 72 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 2: love bombing and romantic relationships mostly too, but love bombing 73 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,839 Speaker 2: also can happen in any of those other experiences, right, 74 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 2: And I went through in more detail what love bombing 75 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 2: is in the episode that we did on Love Addiction 76 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 2: with Melanie Reese that came out earlier this year, but 77 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 2: we'll talk about it a second here, And it's when 78 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 2: a relationship starts with like big bombs of admiration and attention. Again, 79 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 2: doesn't just have to be in romantic relationships. We see 80 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 2: that a lot though, and it can be kind of similar, 81 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 2: which is confusing with how relationships are portrayed in Hollywood 82 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: and movies and stuff, which again it's not very helpful 83 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 2: because we see that all the time and we see 84 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 2: as normal. But it's like that I'm obsessed with you 85 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 2: from day one. Right, anytime that happens, let that be 86 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 2: an important red flag, like when the people are where 87 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 2: that person is like all in and all about you 88 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 2: from the day they met you. You're the greatest person ever. 89 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 2: You're the greatest person I've ever met. You're the best 90 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 2: at this that I've ever experienced. Like all the sudden, 91 00:04:55,600 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: It's like an overwhelming amount of love for someone, and 92 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 2: for someone with an anxious attachment style, this is very 93 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 2: much appreciated, which is super hard. It Also, this love 94 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 2: bombing is like a foreshadowing to being gaslet right. They 95 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 2: win you over with their affection and you begin to 96 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 2: trust them and believe that you have this incredible fairy 97 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 2: tale bond and then done undone, they start to turn 98 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 2: the tables. But they have that backstory for you to 99 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 2: hold onto because how often do we hear ourselves saying 100 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 2: it was so good in the beginning, or they were 101 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 2: so kind of the beginning. I know we can get 102 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 2: back there, but was that real? 103 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: Was that really them? 104 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 2: Or was that the beginning of them trying to get 105 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 2: you to where they wanted you to be? 106 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: Scary question, hard question. I don't like that question. 107 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 2: Backstory. I find this interesting. But people are like, what 108 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 2: does gasletting come from? Well, it comes from a play 109 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 2: that then got turned into a movie. I've never seen 110 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 2: this movie. It's called Gaslight. And what happens in the 111 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 2: movie is there's a husband and a wife and the 112 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 2: husband manipulates and is turning down this like actual gas light, 113 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 2: dimming the lights and telling her that he's not and 114 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 2: she's like, oh, it's getting darker, and he's like, no, 115 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 2: it's not. 116 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 1: And he's convincing her that she's crazy. Right. 117 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 2: He wants to convince her that she can't trust her 118 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 2: reality so then he can commit her to a mental institution. 119 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 2: So that's where that comes from. That's where we get 120 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 2: the phrase gaslight. Now, you will hear this as a 121 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 2: common technique of abusers, dictators, narcissists, like cult leaders. And 122 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 2: when I hear those things, I think that can sound 123 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 2: very extreme, And then I know me, I'm very defensive 124 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 2: towards myself, so I might say something like that would 125 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 2: never happen to me. I would never be an abusive relationship. 126 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 2: I would never let somebody do this. I would never 127 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 2: because those things seem so big and heavy. But again, 128 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 2: this is a form of emotional psychological manipulation which can 129 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 2: be harder to identify and recognize and prove and validate, 130 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: and because of that more debilitating at the same time, right, 131 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 2: we minimize this kind of stuff. I started watching the 132 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 2: Netflix show, the new one called Made, and I mean 133 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 2: trigger warning. It's about a woman who has a kid 134 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 2: is in this like domestic abuse situation, and it's her 135 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 2: story of getting free. I only watched two episodes because 136 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 2: I just was crying and I was like, this is 137 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 2: very sad and this is not what I need right now. 138 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 2: I don't know if I'll finish it, but this I 139 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: do know. The first couple episodes, it had such a 140 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 2: good and realistic view on how victims of abuse minimize 141 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 2: their abuse, right, like he didn't hit me, so I'm 142 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 2: not abused. Like I don't want to call myself a 143 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: victim because that's taking away from people who really are 144 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 2: victims of abuse. And if it's not abuse, then what 145 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 2: would this be. And it becomes this like almost moral 146 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 2: failing on ourselves of like we're the bad people, which 147 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 2: is part of the psychological abuse. It's part of the 148 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 2: cycle like makes us think that we're the bad, wrong 149 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 2: people when really we're not. We're victims of abuse and 150 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 2: we can become survivors if we don't like that word. 151 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 2: We don't have to sit in it forever. You can 152 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 2: become a survivor, but to survive abuse, a lot of 153 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 2: times we have to recognize that we're in that cycle. 154 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 2: So watch that show if you're interested in what that 155 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 2: looks like. But also trigger warning. 156 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: It can't. 157 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 2: I mean, I haven't been in a relationship like that, 158 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 2: but it was triggering to me and my feelings, and 159 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: my feelings. 160 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: Didn't need it that day. Maybe I'll finish later. 161 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: I also think that it's important to mention here while 162 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:36,119 Speaker 2: we're on this part, that anyone is susceptible to gaslighting anybody. 163 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 2: It doesn't just happen to weak people or those with 164 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 2: a fragile sense of self or those with insecure attachment styles. 165 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 2: It can happen to anybody. And yes, those things I 166 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 2: just mentioned could be risk factors and could create a 167 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 2: higher likelihood of this happening, But this can happen to anyone. 168 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 2: And also those things aren't bad or wrong things, right, Like, 169 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 2: there's probably a reason there's a fragile sense of self, 170 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: there's probably a reason that there's insecure attachment style. So 171 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 2: that doesn't mean you're bad or wrong either if that 172 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 2: does fit with you. But I also don't want people 173 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 2: to demonize themselves, because again, this is what these people 174 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 2: want us to think, that that we're the ones and 175 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 2: the wrong. I don't want you to demonize yourself for 176 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 2: this happening. You don't ask for this. There's nothing that 177 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 2: you do that says, oh, please manipulate me, please psychologically 178 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 2: abuse me. This is there's no your fault in this. 179 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 2: And I think when we start to say, oh, it 180 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: was because I had a weak sense of self, or 181 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 2: it's because I am just not confident, it's like, you 182 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 2: can't blame yourself for being abused. That's not fair and 183 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 2: it's not helpful and it's not true. So shall we 184 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 2: talk about what it might look like so you can 185 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 2: spot it. And this is tricky because, like I said, 186 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 2: you often don't know what's happening at first, especially if 187 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:47,839 Speaker 2: you don't know what gaslighting is. So that's one of 188 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 2: the reasons why we're doing this. And this is an 189 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 2: attempt to control someone else by twisting their sense of reality. 190 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 2: So when this is happening, what is happening is somebody 191 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 2: is twisting your sense of reality. You start ground, you 192 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 2: start knowing what's true and what's not true. You start 193 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 2: knowing the sky is blue, and then somebody slowly does 194 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 2: things that allows them to twist your sense of reality 195 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 2: where you might think, oh, the sky is blue. I 196 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 2: know it's blue. It's blue, that's a fact. And then 197 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 2: later down the line you are still seeing the sky 198 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 2: being blue, but you're saying, I bet the sky is 199 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 2: red and I'm seeing blue because I don't see real reality. 200 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 2: I can't trust myself. I have to listen to what 201 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 2: this person in power is telling me. Very confusing. So 202 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 2: back to in the beginning of this conversation when I 203 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,079 Speaker 2: said that there's a difference in the techniques and the 204 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 2: gaslighting effect. 205 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: Right, So we'll get to this. 206 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 2: But denial is a technique or a tactic that's used 207 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 2: in this process. But denial in itself is not gaslighting. 208 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 2: So if somebody denies something that doesn't just automatically like 209 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 2: you're gaslighting me, maybe that could be part of it. 210 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 2: But I think sometimes people just deny things because of 211 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 2: other res and they're not gaslighting you. 212 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:01,839 Speaker 1: It might be. 213 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 2: A self protection There can be a lot of stuff 214 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 2: in them. They might just be lying to get out 215 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 2: of trouble. Doesn't mean they're gas lighting. So just want 216 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 2: to separate that denial in its own right is not gaslighting. 217 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 2: It might be something that somebody uses to get to 218 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 2: that point. So, like I said, there's techniques that are 219 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 2: used to do this, So let's break them down. I 220 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 2: got a list of we're going to go through two 221 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 2: different things. But I got this first list of techniques, 222 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 2: the actual just like words. I took them from the 223 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 2: National Domestic Violence Hotline, so you can visit that website, 224 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 2: the hotline dot org. So I took the five techniques 225 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 2: from there. They really fit and I think they're helpful. 226 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 2: And then I'm going to talk about each one. But 227 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 2: I didn't make those up, and I just wanted to 228 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 2: make that clear. So let's talk about these five techniques. 229 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 2: So one way or one thing that somebody might do 230 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 2: in order to create this narrative is withholding. 231 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: So means that they refuse to listen to. 232 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 2: Information, or pretend like they don't understand the information, or 233 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 2: just like separate themselves from the ability to have the conversation. 234 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 2: So you might hear things like you're not making any 235 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 2: sense or I don't have time for this when you 236 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 2: bring something up that you think is important, or when 237 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 2: you try to talk about a conflict or just anything 238 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 2: in that relationship. They might say things like I'm not 239 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 2: going to go through this again, even if you never 240 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 2: went through it once, or we already talked about this, 241 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 2: and maybe you did talk about it, maybe you didn't, 242 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:29,959 Speaker 2: or maybe you talked about it and they shut you down. 243 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 2: But very much they will just like not allow that 244 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 2: conversation to come to fruition. That's one. Then we have countering. 245 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 2: So this is when somebody's kind of like questioning the person, 246 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 2: as in, if it's you that's being manipulated, they're questioning 247 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 2: your memory or your essential reality of the event. So 248 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 2: this one actually bothers me a lot, Like I think 249 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 2: it might be one of the most frustrating for me 250 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 2: because they take something that actually can be used for 251 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,559 Speaker 2: super helpful communication and turn it against you. Like when 252 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 2: we're having conversations and we're having conflict and somebody might 253 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 2: hear something that somebody didn't say, right. So if somebody says, 254 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 2: like I don't have time to go to this event 255 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 2: with you tomorrow, I might hear them say they don't 256 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 2: they don't want to go, But they never said that, right, 257 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 2: They said they didn't have time. And so when you 258 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 2: have a healthy communication you can talk about that and 259 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 2: you can say, like, I heard you say that you 260 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 2: didn't want to go. The person can reply back, oh, 261 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 2: I actually didn't say that. I totally get that that's 262 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 2: what you heard. I actually didn't have time, and I 263 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 2: actually would want to go, but I don't have time. 264 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 2: And so you can have a healthy conversation around like 265 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 2: oh miscommunication. But in this experience, they'll say things like 266 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 2: that's what you heard in your head. It's not what 267 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 2: I said, even though it is what they said. And 268 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 2: that can be so confusing because sometimes we do hear 269 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 2: things wrong. So you can you can say to yourself, well, 270 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 2: maybe I did hear that wrong. Oh, so they'll say 271 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 2: it like, oh, come on, I never said that, or 272 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 2: like that's what you heard, but you know I would 273 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 2: never say something like that, or you're just being overly 274 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 2: sensitive things like that. Then the third technique is blocking 275 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 2: or diverting. So this is like kind of changing the 276 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,559 Speaker 2: subject and you start to question your thinking and not 277 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 2: just like changing the subject to like the fight we 278 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 2: had to like where are we going to go to dinner? 279 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 2: They'll say things to like downplay your experience, like you're overreacting. 280 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 2: So the subject moves from this thing that happened, this 281 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 2: conflict you had, to your reaction to the conflict, and 282 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 2: you being an overreactor or too sensitive or something like that, 283 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 2: And so they'll say things like, oh, why would you 284 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 2: let something so stupid come between us? This seems silly, 285 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 2: Like you're being silly. You always blew things out of proportion, 286 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 2: You are always picking fights, you always have to be right, 287 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 2: you always play the victim. And so then now you're 288 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 2: arguing about that rather than talking about what you actually 289 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 2: were trying to talk about. So confusing, okay, And then 290 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 2: number four is trivializing, and so this is just making 291 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 2: the person's feelings seem like really unimportant. Like again, and 292 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 2: some of these fall into similar categor like I don't 293 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 2: know why you're making such a big deal of this. 294 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 2: You're being insecure, you're too sensitive, and that can just 295 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 2: make somebody be like, oh, maybe I am overreacting, Like well, 296 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 2: maybe if I just stop overreacting, then we won't have 297 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 2: this conflict and then everything will be better, Like I 298 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 2: don't want to have conflict, So if it's mean I'm 299 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 2: just overreacting, then maybe I'll stop overreacting and then we 300 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 2: won't have conflict. So then you're looking to the person 301 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 2: or the person in power to kind of be your 302 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 2: meter of like does this experience warrant this kind of reaction? 303 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 2: I don't know, because I overreact, and so things that 304 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 2: I think are a big deal aren't a big deal, 305 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 2: and I just need to get over them because it's me. 306 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: It's all about me. It's me, it's me, it's me. 307 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: I'm the problem. 308 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 2: And then the last one is forgetting or like just 309 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 2: straight up denial, which oh my gosh, could be so frustrating. 310 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 2: And this is when the person just straights up straight 311 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 2: up denies something or they forget, they act like they 312 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 2: forget what happened, or they just like deny that they 313 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 2: ever agreed to something or that they ever said something. 314 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 2: They just straight up our line, which is like, again, 315 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 2: these people just are lying, which you cannot argue with 316 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 2: somebody who's lying. And they'll say things like I never 317 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 2: said that, I never did that, or they'll say you 318 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 2: never said that, or you never told me that, or 319 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 2: you never did that. So a question you'll hear a lot, 320 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 2: and something you might wonder yourself, why don't people like 321 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 2: stand up for themselves and or why don't they leave 322 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 2: and all of that, And because most people don't want 323 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 2: to leave and they don't want to threaten the relationship. Right, 324 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 2: And I talk about this all the time. I'm guilty 325 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 2: of wanting to believe the goodness of everyone. And if 326 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 2: you had a love bombing experience, right, you want to 327 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 2: believe in the goodness that this partner or boss or 328 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 2: human has because you've gone through that phase where you 329 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 2: saw it, and you also saw how good and you 330 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 2: heard how good and special the relationship and quotes was 331 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 2: or is. So we go back to this like rosy retrospect. 332 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 2: I'm like, but it was so good and we were 333 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 2: so good and he was so kind and he was 334 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 2: so understanding back then. Okay, but where are we now? 335 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 2: And the more you push right on this, the heavier 336 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 2: the person who's gasling may go in and they can 337 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 2: be ruthless, right, So there's no rationalizing with them. So 338 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 2: if we can get into our heads right that the 339 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 2: agenda they're pushing of the reality that they're trying to 340 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 2: make you believe or understand or adhere to is not true. 341 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: Right. 342 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 2: But if you try to stand up to this, they 343 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 2: have this fake agenda, this fake reality they're pushing. If 344 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 2: you try to push against this, what will happen is 345 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 2: they'll escalate. But as they escalate, their manipulation will create 346 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 2: you as the problem. Now, right, So you're being dramatic, 347 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 2: you're being crazy, You're making a big deal about this. 348 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 2: Why don't you just believe me? Why don't you just understand? 349 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 2: Why do you have to be so difficult? Why do 350 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 2: you have to question everything? And then it's like, whoa, 351 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 2: Now I'm deeper in this. Now what did I do? 352 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 2: How did I create such a big deal out of this? 353 00:17:54,400 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 1: Wow? Few, I'm just getting worked up talking about this. Okay. 354 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 2: Also, I don't know if this fits right here, but 355 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:03,479 Speaker 2: I have to say this because I don't know if 356 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 2: I don't know if I said it. But I often 357 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 2: think that people just think gaslighting is when somebody denies something. 358 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 2: But we already talked about how that's just a tactic. 359 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 2: But a lot of times we think gaslightings when somebody's 360 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 2: denying truth, and that's just it. But it also can 361 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 2: be when they deny something that you did, or they 362 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 2: deny your memory, and it's not just they're denying their behavior. 363 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 2: They might say things like you never said that when 364 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 2: you already did, or denying just a memory of something 365 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 2: of you and it's not just them. So I think 366 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 2: that's important too, because that can be really confusing when 367 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 2: they're like you never said sorry, or you never told 368 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 2: me that you wanted me to be home at this time, and. 369 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: It's like, yes, I did, I did say that. I 370 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: swear I said that. 371 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 2: And we'll move into how we can kind of combat 372 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 2: that later, but I want to just make that point too. 373 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 2: And again, this happens over time. This isn't just like 374 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 2: a snap my fingers has happened. This happens over time. 375 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 2: And there is a great article that I want to share. 376 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 2: This is not my information, I'm taking this from somebody else, 377 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 2: but there's a great article I want to share that 378 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 2: helps make sense of why this can be so hard 379 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 2: to snap out of because it talks about the progression. 380 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 2: There's a woman named Stephanie Sarkis, and she wrote a 381 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 2: book called Gaslighting, Recognize Manipulative and emotionally Abusive People, and 382 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 2: Break Free. And she had an article on psychology today 383 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 2: that went viral, and I think it went viral because 384 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 2: so many people are finally waking up to this stuff 385 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 2: and talking about the stuff and it's interesting. And in 386 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 2: this article she summarizes eleven ways how gas lights typically 387 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 2: use the following techniques, which she details in her book 388 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 2: that I just mentioned, which I will link her book. 389 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 2: I haven't read this book, but I love the article. 390 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 2: So in this article, again she summarizes these eleven ways 391 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 2: how gaslights typically use the techniques I'm going to mention, 392 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 2: and how this progression happened. So how you get from like, oh, 393 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,959 Speaker 2: I'm a normal person that knows my reality to what 394 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 2: in the world I'm questioning everything? So here we're gonna 395 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 2: go through all eleven Number one, I'll also link this 396 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 2: article as well, so if you want to just go 397 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 2: back and read it, because I'm just going to read 398 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 2: what she says. So Number one, they tell blatant lies. 399 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 2: You know it's an outright lie, Yet they are telling you. 400 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: This lie with a straight face. 401 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 2: Why are they so blatant Because they're setting up a precedent. 402 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 2: Once they tell you a huge lie, you're not sure 403 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 2: if anything they say is true. Keeping you unsteady and 404 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 2: off kilter is the goal here. Number two, they deny 405 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 2: they ever said something, even though you have proof. You 406 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 2: know they said they would do something. You know you 407 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 2: heard it, but they out and out deny it. It 408 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 2: makes you start to question your reality. Maybe they never 409 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 2: said that thing. And the more they do this, the 410 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 2: more you question your reality and you start accepting theirs. 411 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 2: It's like Chinese water torture. Right. The longer this is 412 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 2: me talking, not the article, but it's like the longer 413 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 2: you do something, the more it starts to set in. 414 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 2: And just like our belief systems about like our core beliefs, 415 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: the longer we believe we're not good enough, the longer 416 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 2: where we tell that story, the more we live in 417 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 2: that screen, the more that becomes who we are and 418 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 2: what we think and what our reality is. Number three, 419 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 2: they use what is near and dear to you as ammunition. 420 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 2: They know how important your kids are to you, They 421 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 2: know how important your identity is to you, so those 422 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 2: may become the first things they attack. If you have kids, 423 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 2: they tell you that you should not have had those children. 424 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 2: They will tell you that you'd be a worthy person 425 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,719 Speaker 2: if only you didn't have a long list of negative traits. 426 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 2: They attack the foundation of your being. So this is Cadigan. 427 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 2: They go in on you. Number four, They wear you 428 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 2: down over time. This is one of the insidious things 429 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 2: about gas sighting. It's done gradually over time. A lie here, 430 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 2: a lie there, a snide comment every so often, and 431 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 2: then it starts ramping up. Even the brightest, most self 432 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 2: aware people can be sucked into gas sighting. It is 433 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 2: that effective. It's the frog and the frying pan analogy. 434 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 2: The heat is turned up slowly so the frog never 435 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 2: realizes what is happening to it, and then the frog dies. 436 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 2: This is number five. Their actions do not match their 437 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 2: words and dealing with the person or entity that gaslights. 438 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 2: Look at what they are doing rather than what they 439 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 2: are saying. What they are saying means nothing. It is 440 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 2: just talk. What they are doing is the issue. I 441 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,199 Speaker 2: have to step in here as cat again, because this 442 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,640 Speaker 2: is one of the things that's so tough, because you'll 443 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 2: have these conversations and they'll say like I'm sorry, I'll 444 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 2: be better, or they'll have these moments of like goodness 445 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 2: and trueness and care. However, then their actions don't line 446 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 2: up with that. But we go back to well, they 447 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 2: said this, they said this, they said this right. But 448 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 2: to trust and believe and sit with somebody's trueness, their 449 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 2: speech and their actions have to act together. We can't 450 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:47,360 Speaker 2: just pick one. Number six, they throw in positive reinforcement 451 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 2: to confuse you. This person or entity that is cutting 452 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 2: you down, telling you that you don't have value, is 453 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,239 Speaker 2: now praising you for something you did you think, Well, 454 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 2: maybe they aren't so bad. 455 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: Yes they are. 456 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 2: This is a calculated attempt to keep you off kilter 457 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 2: and again to question your reality. Also, look at what 458 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 2: you were praised for. It's probably something that served the 459 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 2: gas lighter. Okay, again, so I love the part where 460 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 2: she's saying this is a calculated attempt to keep you 461 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 2: off kilter in questioning realities because it's nothing is all 462 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 2: the time, right, So you have that evidence that's like 463 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 2: they're not all bad. Yes, And this is where we 464 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 2: ask ourselves that percentage question. How much of the percentage 465 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 2: of this relationship do I feel crazy? And how much 466 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 2: do I feel like they are kind? 467 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:29,160 Speaker 1: Okay? 468 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 2: Number seven. They know confusion weakens people. Gas lighters know 469 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 2: that people have a sense of stability and normalcy. Their 470 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 2: goal is to uproot this and make you constantly question everything. 471 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 2: And human's natural tendency is to look to the person 472 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 2: or entity that will help you feel more stable, and 473 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 2: that happens to be the gas slider. 474 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: Really scary. Number eight. 475 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 2: They project they are a drug user or a cheater, 476 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 2: yet they are constantly accusing you of that. This has 477 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 2: done so often that you start to defend yourself off 478 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 2: and then you're distracted from their behavior. Oh my gosh, 479 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 2: when you start defending yourself from things that you've this 480 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 2: is catting in. When you start defending yourself from things 481 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 2: that like, actually are so off, that is such a 482 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 2: telltale sign, right, Like, I'm defending myself, But have you 483 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 2: ever had to defend yourself from this before? Number nine, 484 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 2: They try to align people against you. Gas Lighters are 485 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 2: masters at manipulating and finding the people they know will 486 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 2: stand by them no matter what, and they use these 487 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 2: people against you. They will make comments such as, this 488 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 2: person knows that you're not right, or this person knows 489 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 2: you're useless too. Keep in mind, it does not mean 490 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 2: that these people actually said these things. A gas lighter 491 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 2: is a constant liar. When the gas lighter uses this tactic, 492 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 2: it makes you feel like you don't know who to 493 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 2: trust or who to turn to, and that leads you 494 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 2: right back to them, and that's exactly what they want. 495 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 2: Isolation gives them more control. I'll get to this, which 496 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 2: is why we need to reality check. And when we 497 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 2: feel like we're in these situations, a lot of times 498 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 2: we don't want to tell anybody about it because it's like, oh, 499 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 2: I don't want to tell people in dirty laundry, or 500 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 2: this is just between us, But that's what they want. 501 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 2: They want it to be between you, so then you 502 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 2: don't have anybody giving you a reality check. Number ten, 503 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 2: they tell you or others that you're crazy. This is 504 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 2: one of the most effective tools of the gas lighter 505 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 2: because it's dismissive. The gas lighter knows if they question 506 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 2: your sanity, people will not believe you when you tell 507 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 2: them the gaslighter is abusive or out of control. It's 508 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 2: a master technique. So what's the point If nobody's gonna 509 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 2: believe me, what's the point? And then eleven they tell 510 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 2: you everyone else is a liar. By telling you that 511 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 2: everyone else, your family, the media XYZ is a liar, 512 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 2: it again makes you question your reality. You've never known 513 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 2: someone with the audacity to do this, so they must 514 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 2: be telling the truth, right. No, it's a manipulation technique. 515 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 2: It makes people turn to the gas lighter for the 516 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 2: correct information, which actually isn't correct at all, oh Man. 517 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 2: And I think one of the things that's highlighting these 518 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 2: steps is the idea this is cap talking, not the article. 519 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 2: Is the idea that, like, they want you in this isolation, 520 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 2: so you don't have any other information and you're going 521 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 2: to them to get it, and so what they say 522 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 2: and what they do is gold. 523 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: My goodness. 524 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 2: So I have so many feelings right now, and if 525 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 2: you have so many feelings right now, I'm in it 526 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 2: with you. This is so frustrating, and this is the 527 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 2: kind of thing that I talk about this and I'm like, 528 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 2: why are these kind of people in the world, and 529 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 2: why is this something that we have to deal with 530 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 2: and move through? And I don't have an answer for that. 531 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 2: I don't have an answer for why we have to 532 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 2: move through a lot of the tough things in life. 533 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 2: But I do have some helpful tips to help you 534 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 2: kind of get out of it. And I have to 535 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 2: stay in this. So let's kind of just talk about 536 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 2: those as we summarize and close out this conversation. And 537 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 2: also I will link that article in the show notes 538 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 2: for you guys, and I'll link the episode on love addiction, 539 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 2: and I'll link the episode that I did on narcissism 540 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 2: as well, So if you want some more information on 541 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 2: some of this stuff, you can go get that there. 542 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 2: And I'll link her book, even though I want you 543 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 2: guys to know I haven't read it, so I can't 544 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 2: vouch for it. But here's some suggestions of what to 545 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 2: do when you find yourself in a relationship like this, 546 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 2: whether it be parent, friend, spouse, romantic partner, boss, anything. No. 547 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 2: Right now, that you are not weak, bad, or wrong 548 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 2: if you have experienced this, and this is so important. 549 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,719 Speaker 2: Abuse of any kind does this thing that makes us 550 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 2: feel bad about ourselves for being found inside of it. 551 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: But nobody asks to be abused. It is not a. 552 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 2: Moral failing on you. And I need you guys to 553 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,640 Speaker 2: know that you're not weak, bad, or wrong. If you're 554 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 2: in this situation. It's not something to be ashamed about. 555 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 2: And the more we believe that, the more we'll get 556 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 2: stuck inside. 557 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 1: Of it too. 558 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 2: I want you guys to pay attention to red flags. 559 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 2: And this is something that's so frustrating at the same time, 560 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 2: I get it, but there's so much like laughter and 561 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 2: jokiness and just like what's the word like self deprecation 562 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,199 Speaker 2: around ignoring red flags these days, and I get some 563 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 2: of it, and some of it the humor. We need 564 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 2: to not make everything so heapy, but we've got to 565 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 2: start paying attention to red flags, especially when they're like this, 566 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 2: because it can really get you into some trouble. And 567 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,360 Speaker 2: again that's not your fault, but when we are ignoring 568 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 2: red flags, we do have to take some responsibility for that. 569 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 1: That part. 570 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 2: Perk up the first time you experience one of these techniques, 571 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 2: perk up the first time you are experiencing love bombing. 572 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 2: Just because you are having this like intense reaction in 573 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 2: a relationship early, it doesn't mean it's going to end 574 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 2: up in this, but I at least want you to 575 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,199 Speaker 2: pay attention to it so you know if one of 576 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 2: these other things follows, Hey I need to talk about this. 577 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 2: Hey I need to be mindful of this write down. 578 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 2: When you experience these things the first time, it's helpful 579 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 2: to have written accounts of these so when your memory 580 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 2: is questioned later when this gets heavier, you can go 581 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 2: back and say, nope, I'm not crazy, I didn't make 582 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 2: this up. I wrote this down. And also sometimes when 583 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 2: we have that written down, we can go WHOA. This 584 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 2: wasn't just a little small thing. Look at all these accounts. 585 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 2: Number three, do not try and argue. Be willing to 586 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 2: leave these conversations with these people without making your point 587 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 2: or without feeling validated under stood. They very likely will 588 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 2: not validate you. It can be super disorienting to be 589 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:09,239 Speaker 2: in conversations with people who are using techniques to gaslight you, 590 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 2: because what they're doing is trying to knock you off 591 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 2: your stability, knock you off of your reality, and they'll 592 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 2: change the path of the discussion. Like I said, so, 593 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 2: if you're trying to be understood and have a conversation 594 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 2: about A, you might be having a conversation about B 595 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 2: later and then all of a sudden you're blowing things 596 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 2: out of proportion or whatever one of the things that 597 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 2: I said earlier, when you're just trying to share your 598 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 2: feelings and be validated. So do not try to argue. 599 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 2: Do not try to beat a dead horse to get 600 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 2: your feelings validated. Just know that that might ever happen, 601 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:40,719 Speaker 2: and be willing to leave without that. 602 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: Four. 603 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 2: Don't try to rationalize, don't try to outsmart this person. 604 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 2: Do not try to manipulate the person who's manipulating you 605 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 2: because again they're usually lying, and if I'm going off 606 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 2: of life, I can continue that narrative as far as 607 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 2: I need to go encounter anything you say. And the 608 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 2: more you try to outsmart the person, the more you 609 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 2: will get confused, because then you're not actually sitting in 610 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 2: your reality, right, You're trying to be a step ahead, 611 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 2: but they're not in reality either, So you're essentially letting 612 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 2: go of your truth in order to jump into this 613 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 2: mind game. So being disengaged, like disengaging from this stuff 614 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 2: and being unbothered by them doing these things, that's your 615 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 2: best course of action to again, be willing to walk away. 616 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 2: Do not try to outsmart this person. Master manipulators, right, 617 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 2: and most healthy people are not master manipulators. We don't 618 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 2: have it in us because when you're sitting and rooted 619 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 2: in truth, a manipulation cannot sit there as well. And 620 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 2: then repeat this one needed. This is my fifth little tip. 621 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 2: My feelings are valid. No one else can tell me 622 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 2: how to feel. Again, my feelings are valid. No one 623 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 2: else can tell me how I feel. You can even 624 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 2: add in there, my reality is valid because listen, we're 625 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 2: all walking around with different realities, right, Because we see 626 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 2: things through different screens. So just because your reality doesn't 627 00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 2: match up exactly as somebody else's doesn't mean it's even 628 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 2: false to begin with. Right, So my feelings are valid, 629 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 2: my reality is valid. No one else can tell me 630 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 2: how to feel. And then the sixth thing I just 631 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 2: want to drive this home is like, find support. Find 632 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 2: find support, reality check with people you trust. So instead 633 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 2: of hiding, right, instead of hiding when when you start 634 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 2: to notice somebody's trying to keep you small, keep you 635 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 2: in this one on one relationship where I'm only going 636 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 2: to reality check with one person. I can only trust 637 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 2: one person. That one person makes me feel like I'm 638 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 2: wrong all the time. 639 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: Red red red red red red red, red, red. 640 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 2: Very very bright red, like neon flag. Always know that 641 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 2: you should be able to reality check with more than 642 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 2: one person. So find support, Go to those people, ask 643 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 2: them questions, talk to them. And when you feel crazy, right, 644 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 2: so when I was like I can't even tell the 645 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 2: story because it's so wild, know that, like, if you 646 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 2: feel crazy, it doesn't mean you are crazy. Ough, I 647 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 2: think that's so important. When you feel crazy, it doesn't 648 00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 2: mean you are crazy. That just might be where somebody 649 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 2: wills you to sit and when I feel crazy, sometimes 650 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 2: it's because I'm being manipulated. 651 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: I'm actually not crazy. 652 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 2: Makes me think of and I think I'm going to 653 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 2: close it out with this of the book, Girl Interrupted. 654 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 2: It was also a movie with Angelina Jolie and Brittany Murphy. 655 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 2: It's super good, super dark. I wouldn't recommend watching it 656 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 2: alone at night. 657 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: But in the book. 658 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 2: I read the book for a project in grad school, 659 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 2: and I think it was like in the last chapter, 660 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 2: like the very end of it. Long story short, this 661 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 2: girl spent a significant amount of time in a mental 662 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 2: health institution back then. I think they were even called 663 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 2: like a sane asylums things like that, which we don't 664 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 2: call them those. But she talked about how after she 665 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 2: left there she always had this essence of questioning her reality. 666 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 2: Because after somebody tells you enough times you're crazy or 667 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 2: crazy or crazy or crazy, essentially you're going to believe them, right. 668 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 2: And so the longer we stay in these relationships where 669 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 2: people are telling us this, the more we're going to 670 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 2: start to believe them. And she's even after she got 671 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 2: out and there's a part of her that knows she's 672 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 2: not crazy, she would question herself and she would be 673 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 2: walking in the grocery store and wonder, am I seeing 674 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 2: these black and white checkers on the tiles or is 675 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 2: this my imagination? And that just speaks to the power 676 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 2: of what we allow ourselves to hear and what we 677 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 2: allow ourselves to stay in. And so find people who 678 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 2: you feel super safe with and who make you feel 679 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 2: stable and who make you feel like confident. Surround yourself 680 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 2: with people who allow you to know that you're not crazy. 681 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 2: Right when we're around people that make us feel like 682 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 2: we are crazy, and that's never happened before Red Flag 683 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 2: because that doesn't just like pop out of nowhere. I mean, 684 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 2: I guess it can. We can't have psychotic breaks, but 685 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So with that, I want 686 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 2: to say, if there's stuff that you just love and 687 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 2: you want to know more about, and you have questions about, 688 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 2: or stuff that you've just loved hearing about, or things 689 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 2: we haven't talked about, send me an email, like I'm 690 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 2: so open to like what you guys are interested in, 691 00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 2: because as I plan for next year's content, want to 692 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 2: make sure that you guys are continuing to get content 693 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 2: that fuels you and that's helpful. So feel free to 694 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 2: send that to Katherine at unitherapy podcast dot com. You 695 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 2: can follow me kat van Buren on Instagram and at 696 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 2: You Need Therapy Podcast until I talk to you guys 697 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 2: again on Wednesday for couch Dogs, I hope you have 698 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 2: the day you need to have.