WEBVTT - Forty Acres and a Mule

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<v Speaker 1>Good morning, peeps, and welcome to will Kate f Daily

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<v Speaker 1>with Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm very excited to bring to you this week a

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<v Speaker 1>two part conversation on the state of black farmers and

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<v Speaker 1>ranchers in America. And you know, for many years, I've

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<v Speaker 1>often wondered what would America look like if, following the

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<v Speaker 1>Civil War, right and the emancipation of enslaved black people

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<v Speaker 1>in the United States, if they had received what they

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<v Speaker 1>were owed right, if not only had reconstruction and continued

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<v Speaker 1>for more than twelve years, which saw black men having

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<v Speaker 1>access to the vote and becoming members of government right

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<v Speaker 1>at the state, local and city levels, but if also

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<v Speaker 1>those that were enslaved, beaten, raped, terrorized, and brutalized for centuries,

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<v Speaker 1>If those that had survived white supremacist domestic terrorism, if

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<v Speaker 1>they had received the land right and the resources to

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<v Speaker 1>build their lives right after having built the economy of

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<v Speaker 1>the United States off of their backs. This is something

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<v Speaker 1>that I think about often, and you know, it actually

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes brings me back to Jonathan Metzel, our friend and

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<v Speaker 1>our in house doctor's book, Dying of Whiteness, how much

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<v Speaker 1>stronger America would be right now if white racist Americans

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<v Speaker 1>had not then and continue now to levy so many

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<v Speaker 1>obstacles and issues and policies on top of black Americans,

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<v Speaker 1>that this country would be a place of bounty right

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<v Speaker 1>for everyone. And so come now to the conversation that

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<v Speaker 1>I'm having this week, and that is with April Simpson,

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<v Speaker 1>who is a reporter and the person that is leading

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<v Speaker 1>the season three of the award winning podcast The Heist,

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<v Speaker 1>which has had two very successful seasons, and The Heist

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<v Speaker 1>in season three focuses on a heist by the US

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<v Speaker 1>government of land and wealth from America's black farmers and ranchers.

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<v Speaker 1>And April, who I will speak to next, reports on

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<v Speaker 1>this series and it is anchored around Nate Bradford, who

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<v Speaker 1>you will hear from tomorrow, who is a black rancher

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<v Speaker 1>and comes from a family of ranchers and the issues

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<v Speaker 1>that he has had. And you know, this entire series,

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<v Speaker 1>this next season is all tied to a recent study

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<v Speaker 1>that found this. Folks, listen to this because when I'm

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<v Speaker 1>talking about the disruption, the purposeful disruption of black wealth,

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<v Speaker 1>the racial wealth gap has always been discussed as if

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<v Speaker 1>it is oh We just need to provide these underserved

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<v Speaker 1>black people with opportunities and then they can thrive. They

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<v Speaker 1>just need more education. Blah blah blah. No, Actually, what

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<v Speaker 1>black people in this country has needed is for white

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<v Speaker 1>people to get the fuck out of their way, right

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<v Speaker 1>And why do I say that, because I want you

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<v Speaker 1>to take in this number right now. Season three of

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<v Speaker 1>The Heist is tied to a study that found that

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<v Speaker 1>black farmers lost three hundred and twenty six billion dollars

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<v Speaker 1>with a b in land in the twentieth century alone.

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<v Speaker 1>That's more than the entire GDP of Chile and Columbia.

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<v Speaker 1>That discrimination has largely been at the hands of the

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<v Speaker 1>US Department of Agriculture, which was established by President Lincoln

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<v Speaker 1>during the Civil War. Three hundred and twenty six billion dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>And I know that you have listened to Secretary of

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<v Speaker 1>Transportation Pete Buddhadette on this show and others when he

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<v Speaker 1>spoke about the discrimination that had been done to break

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<v Speaker 1>up black communities and put highways right through towns and

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<v Speaker 1>communities through farmland. Go in and just seize land from

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<v Speaker 1>black owners and give them nothing in return for it.

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<v Speaker 1>This has been the fundamental practice of this government since Lincoln.

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<v Speaker 1>So when we talk about the racial wealth gap, it

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<v Speaker 1>isn't something that occurred because there was a quote unquote

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<v Speaker 1>lack of educational opportunity. The reason why black people in

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<v Speaker 1>this country find themselves making ten twenty times less and

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<v Speaker 1>having less wealth than their white neighbors and counterparts is

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<v Speaker 1>largely because of the United States government's theft, lies, deceit,

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<v Speaker 1>and discrimination that has been interwoven into policies for hundreds

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<v Speaker 1>of bucking years. I can tell you, folks that when

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<v Speaker 1>I began this interview with April and Nate, who you

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<v Speaker 1>will hear from tomorrow, I knew a little right. I

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<v Speaker 1>knew enough to know that the United States government has

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<v Speaker 1>always been at the front of ensuring the racial wealth gap,

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<v Speaker 1>of solidifying the racial wealth gap in this country, and

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<v Speaker 1>taking absolutely no responsibility and continuing along with the narrative that, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, black folks are just lazy, or they just

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<v Speaker 1>need more education, or to pick themselves up from them

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<v Speaker 1>boots straps, understanding that white wealth in this country was

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<v Speaker 1>formed around the obstacles that were put in the way

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<v Speaker 1>for their black counterparts. Why is it that I have

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<v Speaker 1>some friends that have land and businesses that were passed

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<v Speaker 1>down in their families from their great great grandparents, and

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<v Speaker 1>they're like, oh, why don't you have anything right, No land,

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<v Speaker 1>no business, no nothing. Oh because black people, their families

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<v Speaker 1>were denied those loans, those mortgages, the land rights, run

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<v Speaker 1>off of their land. And so each generation has just

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<v Speaker 1>been trying to keep their head above water that the

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<v Speaker 1>United States government has been drowning them in. So in

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<v Speaker 1>this conversation coming up next with April Simpson, we get

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<v Speaker 1>into the conversation that The Heist, the award winning podcast

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<v Speaker 1>is having this season around black farmers and ranchers and

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<v Speaker 1>government theft. That conversation, dear friends, is coming up next, folks.

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<v Speaker 1>I am very happy to welcome to wikate f Daily

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<v Speaker 1>for the first time April Simpson, who is the reporter

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<v Speaker 1>who is reporting on an award winning podcast, The Heist,

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<v Speaker 1>which who season two, The Wealth of Vartax, won the

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty three Excellence and Financial Journalism Award for Best

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<v Speaker 1>Audio Reporting, and this season, which will come out on

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<v Speaker 1>October third, focuses on the heist by the US government

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<v Speaker 1>of land and wealth from America's black farmers and ranchers. April,

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<v Speaker 1>please talk to us about I mean your work. One

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<v Speaker 1>has been at the Center for Public Integrity, you have

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<v Speaker 1>been a US Fulbright fellow, you have been at the

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<v Speaker 1>London School of Economics. You have covered this issue and

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<v Speaker 1>many issues around agriculture and reported on it. Talk to

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<v Speaker 1>us about the plight of black farmers in the US.

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<v Speaker 1>That is not mainstream knowledge.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, sure, and black farmers have long had issues in

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<v Speaker 2>gaining access to credit, being able to get loans, even

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<v Speaker 2>loan applications, being able to get that money in a

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<v Speaker 2>way that is timely because agriculture is obviously so time sensitive,

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<v Speaker 2>and they've often had an issue with the Department of

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<v Speaker 2>Agriculture and that it being a lender to farmers who

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<v Speaker 2>aren't able to get credit anywhere else. And this kind

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<v Speaker 2>of documented history of discrimination has been going on for

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<v Speaker 2>a very long time. Some would argue that it's been

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<v Speaker 2>going on since the founding of the department, which happened

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<v Speaker 2>during the Civil War under President Lincoln. And yeah, reports

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<v Speaker 2>that go through, you know, from the sixties, eighties, and nineties,

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<v Speaker 2>and all of that ended up with a class action

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<v Speaker 2>settlement that I'm sure you'll you'll want to talk about

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<v Speaker 2>in the late nineties that black farmers were successful in

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<v Speaker 2>settling with the government around So one of the.

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<v Speaker 1>Things that I did not realize, and I think is

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<v Speaker 1>brought up in the description of this upcoming season, is

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<v Speaker 1>that black farmers lost three hundred and twenty six billion

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<v Speaker 1>dollars in land in the twentieth century alone. Talk to

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<v Speaker 1>us about that staggering number in the twentieth century, and

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<v Speaker 1>then in conjunction with the lawsuit that they won and

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<v Speaker 1>how much that was actually for if it was even

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<v Speaker 1>a drop in the bucket in comparison to the theft.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, so that three hundred and twenty six billion dollars

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<v Speaker 2>is obviously a very staggering figure. It's these researchers release

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<v Speaker 2>that data showing that, you know, black farmers have lost

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<v Speaker 2>this amount in land and in wealth because when you

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<v Speaker 2>have land, it can be used as collateral to you know,

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<v Speaker 2>get loans or credit. It it's you know, it's a

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<v Speaker 2>wealth building tool. It often leads to political uh uh,

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<v Speaker 2>what's the word I'm looking for? Political power of locally,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of folks who are landowners are also you know,

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<v Speaker 2>community community leaders, and so black farmers have been denied

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<v Speaker 2>all of this over the past century. There's you know,

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<v Speaker 2>other stats from the Census of Agriculture that shows, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>black farmers are the only racial group of farmers who

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<v Speaker 2>have decreased over the last century. Obviously, armland ownership has

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<v Speaker 2>decreased in a saggering way as well, and so you know,

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<v Speaker 2>all of that has been happening black farmers wage. Like

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<v Speaker 2>I said, a successful class action suit against the Department

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<v Speaker 2>in the late nineties called Pickford versus Clickman, and that

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<v Speaker 2>suit acknowledged that black farmers had long been denied loans,

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<v Speaker 2>delayed loans, just not given access to the benefits and

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<v Speaker 2>resources that white farmers were given access to from the

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<v Speaker 2>Department of Agriculture, and oftentimes that led to them losing

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<v Speaker 2>their land, you know, going into foreclosure, just not being

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<v Speaker 2>able to plant on time, being pretty much set up

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<v Speaker 2>for failure because if you get that loan too late

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<v Speaker 2>in the season, like you're not going to have a

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<v Speaker 2>successful crop, You're not going to have a good harvest season.

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<v Speaker 2>So the settlement in that case, because it didn't actually

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<v Speaker 2>go to trial, there was a settlement agreement that the

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<v Speaker 2>parties agreed to, and the settlement in that case had

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<v Speaker 2>essentially two tracks. They call them Track A and Track B.

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<v Speaker 2>And for track A. You had to show proof of discrimination.

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<v Speaker 2>You had to show that there was a similarly situated

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<v Speaker 2>white farmer who was given access to the resources that

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<v Speaker 2>you were denied. You had to show like an economic loss.

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<v Speaker 2>And after you showed these things, you were given fifty

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<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars and the opportunity to have some debt forgiven

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<v Speaker 2>that was tied to specific loans where they found racial discrimination.

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<v Speaker 2>The other option that farmers had was Track B, and

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<v Speaker 2>that would have been much more, much more beneficial in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of the funding that they were given. But they

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<v Speaker 2>still had to show substantial proof or preponderance of ever

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<v Speaker 2>evidence of discrimination. They had to gather a lot more paperwork,

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<v Speaker 2>they had to present it at what's kind of like

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<v Speaker 2>a mini trial, and they had to show that their

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<v Speaker 2>losses were greater than fifty thousand. Ultimately, only I think

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<v Speaker 2>one percent or less than one percent of farmers actually

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<v Speaker 2>went with TRACKB. Some farmers say, such as the one

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<v Speaker 2>that we interview in the podcast, Eddie Slott, who was

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<v Speaker 2>a claimant. He says that the lawyers encouraged the farmers

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<v Speaker 2>to go with Track A because you know, even though

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<v Speaker 2>the bar was still fairly high, it was lower than

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<v Speaker 2>Track BE and the opportunity to have their debt forgiven.

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<v Speaker 2>Those loans forgiven was the real draw, but ultimately most

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<v Speaker 2>farmers didn't get any loan forgiveness.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm just disgusted, right, I, like anyone at his

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<v Speaker 1>listening to this and thinking about the like I'm thinking

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<v Speaker 1>about pretty much every presidential candidate talking about Middle America,

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<v Speaker 1>talking about real Americans and bootstraps and land and the

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<v Speaker 1>way that they show fields in their political campaigns. And

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<v Speaker 1>not one president you tell me if I'm wrong, has

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<v Speaker 1>come out and done anything on behalf of black farmers, like,

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<v Speaker 1>done anything to really push for or provide this kind

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<v Speaker 1>of debt relief, provide any type of restitution for centuries

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<v Speaker 1>of pillage over their property and their ability to grow

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<v Speaker 1>wealth in this country.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean the Pickford and the efforts around it started

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<v Speaker 2>under the Clinton administration and a Secretary of Agriculture at

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<v Speaker 2>that time, Dan Glickman. You know from what I've read

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<v Speaker 2>and from my reporting, people talk about how sympathetic he

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<v Speaker 2>was to the plight of black farmers. There was a

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<v Speaker 2>section second settlement for those who didn't make it to

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<v Speaker 2>the first pick for two, and that happened under the

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<v Speaker 2>Obama administration and then now under Biden, which has had

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<v Speaker 2>you know, this administration has had a big focus on

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<v Speaker 2>racial equity rights, like the Executive Order from day one

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<v Speaker 2>had a program in the American Rescue Plan at the

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<v Speaker 2>COVID Relief Bill that was trying to relieve the debts

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<v Speaker 2>of farmers of color. Ultimately that faced legal challenges, it

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<v Speaker 2>was rescinded. It was replaced with a new program and

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<v Speaker 2>the Inflation Reduction Act.

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<v Speaker 1>So what is the percentage of black farmers that are

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<v Speaker 1>left in the country.

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<v Speaker 2>It's less than two percent.

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<v Speaker 1>It's less than two percent. And has is that largely

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<v Speaker 1>due to this theft? Is it largely due to big

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<v Speaker 1>ag right, like these bigger agricultural companies coming in and

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<v Speaker 1>being able to you know, do land grabs.

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<v Speaker 2>Essentially, there are a lot of different factors involved, and

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<v Speaker 2>USDA discrimination is one of them. I mean other factors

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<v Speaker 2>are I guess also within USDA, but outside of the

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<v Speaker 2>Lending Department is the Civil Rights Office that has you know,

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<v Speaker 2>long been ineffective in processing and investigating complaints. It actually

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<v Speaker 2>closed during or you know what was not effective during

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<v Speaker 2>the Origan administration. And that's when a lot of the

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<v Speaker 2>documents from these black farmers were allow There's this also

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<v Speaker 2>as you mentioned, these broader trends in mechanization and farm consolidation. Uh,

0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:13.280
<v Speaker 2>there's errors property when landowners don't have proper title to

0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:20.240
<v Speaker 2>their land and are vulnerable to having that land essentially

0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:20.920
<v Speaker 2>taken from them.

0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:29.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's just extraordinary, April, this story, this series

0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:33.640
<v Speaker 1>and like this plight, and I wonder, like what, as

0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:40.280
<v Speaker 1>you were interviewing these different farmers that have been affected

0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:45.639
<v Speaker 1>by this, what are your what are your hopes for this,

0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:48.359
<v Speaker 1>you know, for the new season in terms of like

0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:52.600
<v Speaker 1>what people learn and get out of it, And is

0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:58.919
<v Speaker 1>there any type of advocacy that people listening, you know,

0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:02.119
<v Speaker 1>would be able to to offer or is this just

0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:04.720
<v Speaker 1>it's the necessity to tell the story.

0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:11.480
<v Speaker 2>I think it's an important story to tell, especially at

0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:18.520
<v Speaker 2>this moment right because it's a very tricky legal environment.

0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:21.800
<v Speaker 2>We're also in a with the Supreme Court case that

0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:26.200
<v Speaker 2>struck down affirmative action in higher education. You know, it's

0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.440
<v Speaker 2>also just a tricky political environment in terms of doing

0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:33.800
<v Speaker 2>any kind of race based programming. So I think it's

0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:38.240
<v Speaker 2>an important historical story to tell. I hope that it

0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:41.879
<v Speaker 2>is educational for people who are not aware of the

0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:46.320
<v Speaker 2>apply to black farmers and this very recent history and

0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.600
<v Speaker 2>what's happened under the Abiden administration and the challenges around that,

0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:54.280
<v Speaker 2>and I just I hope it just complicates the thinking

0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:59.360
<v Speaker 2>around how we think about, you know, colorblind versus race

0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:01.520
<v Speaker 2>based remedy.

0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:07.359
<v Speaker 1>How do you think that the Supreme Court decision around

0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:12.160
<v Speaker 1>affirmative action will come into play? Because again, these are

0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:18.080
<v Speaker 1>issues that, while they're couched in you know, secondary education,

0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:23.199
<v Speaker 1>have ramifications across industry and business, and so how do

0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:27.320
<v Speaker 1>you think you know that that does come into play

0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:32.879
<v Speaker 1>moving forward, even if you know you have a you know,

0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:38.160
<v Speaker 1>sympathetic administration that sees wrongdoing and wants to write it,

0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:40.280
<v Speaker 1>the ability to actually do that.

0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:48.480
<v Speaker 2>I think that it's it's tricky for the administration, right because,

0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:52.639
<v Speaker 2>like you said, they are committed to racial equity and

0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:55.800
<v Speaker 2>racial justice, and you know, from the American Rescue Plan Act,

0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:57.760
<v Speaker 2>we know that they were trying to do something to

0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:02.399
<v Speaker 2>help farmers of color in Particularler. But I also think

0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:07.080
<v Speaker 2>because of this Supreme Court case, they want to avoid

0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:10.280
<v Speaker 2>any kind of litigation and are trying to push through

0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:15.200
<v Speaker 2>efforts that are going to succeed. And granted, the more

0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:21.359
<v Speaker 2>recent efforts are color blind. But you know, and also

0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:24.600
<v Speaker 2>we don't actually know, because the data is not being released,

0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:27.600
<v Speaker 2>how much black farmers or any farmers of color are

0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:32.120
<v Speaker 2>benefiting from more of the recent programs. But from what

0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:36.480
<v Speaker 2>we know about loan delinquency and black farmers something like

0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:40.040
<v Speaker 2>more than fifty percent are delinquent on their loans, we

0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:42.719
<v Speaker 2>know that they should at least in large part, be

0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:47.000
<v Speaker 2>benefiting from these programs. So yeah, I think I think

0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:50.600
<v Speaker 2>they don't want to get sued. They're trying to avoid that.

0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:54.959
<v Speaker 1>What do you think, like, what stood out to you

0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:58.760
<v Speaker 1>the most in the people that you talk to and

0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:02.200
<v Speaker 1>in the research that you did for dis latest season?

0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:08.160
<v Speaker 1>What got you got what got to you the most

0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:09.440
<v Speaker 1>in terms of your reporting.

0:23:11.480 --> 0:23:14.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I've spoken to a lot of black farm advocates,

0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:18.040
<v Speaker 2>a lot of elder black farmers in particular, who were

0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:24.000
<v Speaker 2>claimants in the Pickford case, and I'm always struck by

0:23:24.600 --> 0:23:29.720
<v Speaker 2>their passion after you know, twenty five some odd years,

0:23:30.600 --> 0:23:36.600
<v Speaker 2>and their commitment to educating me and educating others around

0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:40.480
<v Speaker 2>this history. And I'm always grateful for the time that

0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:43.000
<v Speaker 2>people are willing to spend with me on that. And

0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:45.800
<v Speaker 2>then on the flip side, you know, I've been struck

0:23:45.840 --> 0:23:49.720
<v Speaker 2>by Nate and his commitment to try to make it

0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:53.840
<v Speaker 2>as a rancher despite all these odds, despite the history

0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:58.800
<v Speaker 2>of government discrimination that he kind of walked into right

0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:03.120
<v Speaker 2>as like a younger farmer. And it's essentially like looming

0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:05.400
<v Speaker 2>over him and looming over the work that he's tried

0:24:05.440 --> 0:24:10.239
<v Speaker 2>to do. That discrimination affected his father, and these, you know,

0:24:10.320 --> 0:24:13.400
<v Speaker 2>broader changes that are happening with the industry are also

0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:16.680
<v Speaker 2>affecting him. But he's he's trying to make it regardless.

0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:21.880
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's it's just, you know, it is a

0:24:21.920 --> 0:24:25.760
<v Speaker 1>really important story to tell, particularly at a time when

0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:33.760
<v Speaker 1>you have Republican politicians working to erase any semblance of

0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:40.760
<v Speaker 1>the truth about America's you know, sounding about injustice and

0:24:41.000 --> 0:24:45.359
<v Speaker 1>obstacles and discrimination that we're faced. And I think that

0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:49.080
<v Speaker 1>this is absolutely a story that needs to be told

0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:51.920
<v Speaker 1>and should be told, and I'm just really thankful that

0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:56.199
<v Speaker 1>you did tell it. Please tell people, you know, if

0:24:56.240 --> 0:25:01.040
<v Speaker 1>they want to find out more information on this topic,

0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:03.840
<v Speaker 1>on this issue, what they can what they can do.

0:25:05.480 --> 0:25:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Sure so, our show will be on our website at

0:25:11.000 --> 0:25:15.239
<v Speaker 2>public Integrity dot org and there'll be a collection of

0:25:15.280 --> 0:25:19.680
<v Speaker 2>stories that publish alongside each podcast episode every Tuesday in October,

0:25:20.320 --> 0:25:23.840
<v Speaker 2>and those stories are you know, kind of complimentarated each

0:25:23.880 --> 0:25:26.480
<v Speaker 2>episode and they dig into it a particular issue a

0:25:26.480 --> 0:25:31.159
<v Speaker 2>little bit deeper. There are you know, a number of

0:25:31.600 --> 0:25:36.160
<v Speaker 2>advocacy groups. There's there are also books that people could

0:25:36.200 --> 0:25:39.720
<v Speaker 2>go to for just a deeper knowledge. There's a wonderful

0:25:39.720 --> 0:25:42.720
<v Speaker 2>book by Pete Daniel called This Possession that is kind

0:25:42.720 --> 0:25:45.320
<v Speaker 2>of the textbook I think of as a textbook around

0:25:46.280 --> 0:25:50.200
<v Speaker 2>the ply the Black farmers. And there's like these academic papers,

0:25:50.240 --> 0:25:52.920
<v Speaker 2>like the paper you referenced around three hundred and twenty

0:25:52.920 --> 0:25:56.440
<v Speaker 2>six billion lost in land and wealth that was done

0:25:56.640 --> 0:26:02.639
<v Speaker 2>by Thomas Mitchell, a researcher at Boston College and another

0:26:02.680 --> 0:26:06.240
<v Speaker 2>researcher at University of Massachusetts, Boston. Those would be a

0:26:06.240 --> 0:26:07.399
<v Speaker 2>couple of good places to start.

0:26:08.040 --> 0:26:11.240
<v Speaker 1>Amazing. Well, April, thank you so much for taking the

0:26:11.280 --> 0:26:15.400
<v Speaker 1>time to join ok F Daily, and thank you for

0:26:15.520 --> 0:26:19.080
<v Speaker 1>this reporting, this really important reporting. We really appreciate that.

0:26:19.640 --> 0:26:20.919
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for having me.

0:26:26.440 --> 0:26:29.760
<v Speaker 1>That is it for me today, Dear friends on Woke

0:26:29.880 --> 0:26:33.960
<v Speaker 1>ap as always, power to the people and to all

0:26:34.280 --> 0:26:37.960
<v Speaker 1>the people. Power, get woke and stay woke. As fup