WEBVTT - The Matriarch Speaks 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:04.320 It was perhaps the first time George White of the 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.120 fourth heard his mother's voice in the four years since 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:16.920 the family was arrested. Maybe you think that might unknitted. Yes, 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:23.959 I want the truth from you. Okay, did something happened? 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:28.200 You can see her attempting to fool you know, everyone 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:32.240 involved in this. Let's face it, we've got eight dead bodies, 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:35.599 four separate locations. How in the world do you think 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:45.080 that you can escape that this is the piked to massacre? 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:51.879 Returned to Pike County season four, episode fourteen, the matriarch speaks. 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:56.360 It's important to note that George Wagner the fourth has 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:59.480 pleaded not guilty and has maintained he did not kill anyone. 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:04.080 His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:08.039 pleaded not guilty to all charges. In the previous episode, 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:10.400 we heard about how law enforcement came to view the 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:14.040 Wagners as suspects and the murders of the Rodin, Manly 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:18.880 and Gillie families. Before it was suspicion and things weren't 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:23.080 adding up. Yes, Lead investigator Ryan Schierer says that changed 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.520 about a year after the homicides, when BCI agents matched 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:30.319 spent shell casings at the Wagner's home in Peebles. Based 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:33.440 on that ballistics, evidence agents used search warrants to take 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:36.920 deep dives into mobile devices used by George Wagner, who's 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:39.840 on trial for murder his brother Jake, and their parents, 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:43.520 Billy and Angela Wagner. After originally preparing to intercept the 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:47.680 Wagners in North Dakota, investigators had to scramble to intercept 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:51.360 the family at another Canadian border entry point. The Wagners 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:55.520 were house hunting in Alaska. As they returned, agents intercepted 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:58.920 them at the Canadian border a year after the murders. 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:01.760 Now Wagner is used of helping kill eight members of 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:05.600 the Rodent and Gillie families. Investigators detained the Wagners and 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:08.160 placed each member of the family in a separate room. 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:11.440 At this time, I believe you indicated that you were 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:15.000 going to interview them as suspects instead of your prior 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.280 contacts with them. Correct. The gig was help. I knew 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:21.360 we were looking at them. While the Wagners were in custody. 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:25.520 Agencies to laptop and an iPad from their vehicle. Law 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:29.239 enforcement also placed listening devices in the Wagner's SUV and 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:33.280 bug their phones. Upon cross examination, John Parker from the 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:36.160 defense brings up the quality of the audio obtained from 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:39.640 the bug the agents placed in the Wagner's vehicle. There's 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:42.560 really nothing useful that came from those listening devices on 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:46.040 the vehicles at Paris. I did not work as well 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:49.359 as we hoped. Correct, right, there was nothing useful gata 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:52.680 on that. Correct. The quality of the audio was less 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:59.760 than desirable. There was nothing useful game Correct. Here's James Pilcher, 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.840 long time investigative reporter in Cincinnati, now with Local twelve, 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:06.120 and now it turns out that was kind of a 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:10.480 snap who too, because the road noise drowned out anything 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.320 they could hear. They really didn't get really much of 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:16.520 anything out of that except you know, when everybody came out. 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:18.880 They came out one at a time and they sat 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:22.239 there and they didn't talk about anything. Normally, if you're 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:24.680 innocent and you're pulled over and all of a sudden 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:27.000 you get out of a four out or interview, you're 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:28.799 going to be asking your family members what the heck 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:31.440 is going on? None of that. Nothing was hurt like 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.480 that on those recordings. Because of the rush to set 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.880 up in Montana as opposed to North Dakota. Agents weren't 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:41.080 able to videotate the interviews since the bug in the 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:44.680 vehicle did not pick up usable audio. The audio recordings 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.240 of the interviews at the Canadian border where all the 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:51.560 investigators had you interviewed, Jake is correct, Yes, myself and 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:55.760 special agent moltered okay. And do you recall how long 0:03:55.920 --> 0:04:00.720 that interview was across you? Four to six hours? Maybe yes? 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.920 And Judge we would ask that we'd be allowed to 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:08.560 play Jay Zam to the prosecution of Jack's and Judge 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:10.760 Dering instructs the jury to leave the room for a 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:14.560 fifteen minute recess. Judge Jarring asked for the prosecution and 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:17.880 defense to present their arguments on whether Jake's taped interviews 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:20.839 should be played for the court. Just the plain reading 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:24.480 of evidence, Rule eight o one says that the co 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.640 conspirac statment is attributed to the defendant. There's a lot 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:29.920 of talk of rule eight o one, but the gist 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:33.040 of it is that the defense cannot introduces evidence another 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:37.640 co conspirator's testimony during cross only the state is allowed 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.240 to do that. That's the whole nature of the co conspiracy. 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:43.800 So they all denied it right. That was part of 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:47.080 the conspiracy, so he does not get to put it now. 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:51.520 Even when Jay testifies, he certainly can uses to cross 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.440 examine him as a hiring consistent statement. At that point, 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:57.800 John Parker argues that Jake's testimony is part of the 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:08.520 defense's constitutional right to present a complete defense lie. The 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:12.600 co construtive shame is covering up his ass. We shouldn't 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:18.080 have to we if they call Jee he comes into 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:26.480 this officer interview, he's probably when it's time to make 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.840 a ruling. Judge Steering decides he needs to hear more argument. 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:33.359 I'm not going to decide ultimately today whether we're going 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:35.159 to be able to play that tape in the defense 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:38.960 side of the case. I'll decide that tomorrow morning, after 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:42.159 I've heard arguments here. You should be ready about eight 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:44.960 forty five to go on record and argue that issue, 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:47.479 and then I'll make that decision. They let the jury 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:52.200 back into the courtroom and Judge Steering addresses the court, Lady, gentlemen, 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:56.520 the court. We're going to have an early day close today. 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:58.880 The court has some things to do that do not 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:02.120 involve the jury during closes the day early to give 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:05.440 the defense and prosecution time to prepare for tomorrow's hearing. 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.360 Here again, James Pilcher. So I pretty much shut down 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:12.920 the trial for the afternoon, and actually the judge held 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:15.920 it under advisement and said I'll rule on it tomorrow. 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.160 So we're all on pins and needles the next day 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:20.880 as to whether or not we're gonna have to sit 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:24.279 through six hours of listening to Ryan and Jake talk 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:28.400 to each other. News media reports the latest development in 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:31.560 the trial the defense trying to play Jake Wagner's first 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:35.720 interrogation tape today, but the prosecution said, wait, you can't 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:38.280 do that. We have to enter that as evidence first, 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:41.160 And the judge said, show up here tomorrow morning and 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.159 prepare to argue about it and he'll make a decision then. 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:47.599 So that brings us to tomorrow. Will jurors hear Jake 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:51.960 Wagner's five hour interrogation tape, Will they hear Angela Wagner's 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.680 two hour interrogation tape? And how will George the man 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:58.880 on trial come up in those tapes? But the next morning, 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:02.000 it's not Jake's interview that makes news. George Wagner the 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:07.800 fourth providing an explosive audio recording of his mom, Angela's 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:11.880 interrogation by BCI agents. It was perhaps the first time 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.120 George Whitener the fourth heard his mother's voice in the 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:20.520 four years since the family was arrested. Before the jury 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:23.200 has brought in Judge during Here's arguments about whether to 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.200 allow in the audio recording of Jake's interview from when 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:30.040 the Wagoners were intercepted at the Canadian border. Prosecutor Angie 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:33.440 Kaneppa lays out her reasons for the objection. Jane made 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:37.440 a complete time. There was nothing that was taken from 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:43.640 that interview by Specialty tier that informed next investigative steps. 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.480 So I guess really one question would be for what 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:51.280 purposes this being requested to be played. Here's John Parker 0:07:51.520 --> 0:08:00.200 with the defense. J Ala has pledged experience experiracy. Well, 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:09.200 they're Posperiers, all right, series, and even though I didn't 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:15.680 get it done, this record will reflect Jase Baffards to 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:21.440 cover us. Finally, Judge Darring makes a ruling, Well, I 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:23.800 think I understand the arguments involved, but I'm going to 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:26.280 deny the request of defense to play the tape at 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:30.440 this time. Here again, James Pilcher. One of the interesting 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:34.920 things about this day was the prosecution specifically chooses not 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:38.640 to play the tape of the recording they made with George, 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.040 and there were some questions, Okay, why aren't they playing 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.200 this to show what he was saying at the time. 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:46.400 As for the strategy of this, we think possibly they're 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:49.880 not playing it. So if and when George decides to 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:53.400 take the stand, he can't tailor his testimony to what 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:55.679 he said at the border. And it's actually part of 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:59.400 this argument about Jake as well. Jake's recording and they 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:03.880 say that allows him to testify on his own behalf 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:06.960 without taking a stand. So that's where that argument comes up, 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.480 and it turns into another legal battle and it's won. 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:14.760 The prosecution wins with Jake's interview ruled as inadmissible. At 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.400 this point in the trial, the prosecution calls up their 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:20.880 next witness, he Treasure right hand. Can you solemnly swear 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:22.880 or a firm that the testimony you're about to give 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:24.880 show me the truth, the whole truths. I'm nothing about 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:28.080 the truths as you shall answer and to God. BCI 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:31.800 Agent Jennifer Commasford has six years experience with the Special 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:35.920 Investigations Unit in Ohio. BCI She wears a polka dot 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:38.280 shirt and a blazer with straight brown hair that falls 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:42.280 to her shoulders. She has relaxed on the stand. Agent 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:45.079 Commasford was one of the agents present for the searches 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:48.199 of the Wagner's farm and trailers. She was also on 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:50.599 the team of agents that interviewed the Wagoners at the 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:54.600 Canadian border. You treated it like a custodial interview. Tell 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:57.240 us what that means. We treated it as a custido 0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:02.000 interview and that we mirandized Angela Wagner because we treat 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:04.000 it as though she was in custody, not free to leave, 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:06.480 and that she was being interrogated. So we read her 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:08.600 her miranda rights. You're on her this time. I would 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:14.199 request to play the recording of Special Agent Thomasford's interview 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:20.360 with Angela Wagner at the Montana border. The prosecution cues 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:23.000 up the tape of Angela's interview and begins playing it 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:26.600 for the jury. The defendant, George Wagner, stares down at 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:30.400 his feet. But the reason why he was obviously okay 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:33.400 dealing with all that, all that nobody's going down in 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.079 Pike County, and that's the reason we came up here. 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:39.240 To get away from all that. Okay, okay, tracing the 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:42.240 media is all over itself. Have you been following any 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:45.000 of that of course, yeah, you know. We just want 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:48.760 to get away from down there and talk outside his 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:51.480 stale Aisle Pike County. I think it would be best 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.439 for everybody. I have some personal questions for you, though. 0:10:55.720 --> 0:11:01.679 Was the last Oh we love it here again, James Pilcher. 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:05.320 This recording of Angela is really significant. First of all, 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:07.360 the first time we heard her voice in the courtroom. 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:09.679 But second of all, it gives us a sense of 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:12.960 their state of mind as they're becoming aware that they're 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:17.040 being suspects, are being treated as suspects. Agent Comasford an 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:20.719 agent Rick Ward, asked about Angela Wagner's relationship with the 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:27.240 Rodent family. Relationship I had ridings was to Hannah. Hannah 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:29.880 and my son Jake were together for five years. Well 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:34.400 they marry? Yeah? Okay, um did an? I'm getting married? Yes. 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:37.000 They had a waiting planned, everything was planned out for 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:41.480 that August that she had everything organized, everything ready, And 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:48.559 I love that she wasn't break and she did break, 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:54.400 and well it's hurt of course, Jake. She was love 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:56.679 with his life where. I mean, my son doesn't take 0:11:56.720 --> 0:12:03.040 anything lately. You know, why are you working? You know 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.240 what I don't know. I know that Hannah was really 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:11.160 young when her Jake got together. What's the between the two? 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:15.319 Anna was thirteen, my son was seventeen, sixteen and a 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:21.559 halfs investigators ask Angela about her relationship with hannahme Rodin. So, 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:25.520 your relationship with with Hannah was good. I thought she 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:27.880 was a school wrap. But I thought she was a 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:31.040 school wrap? How she really was? I mean, no, that's 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:33.240 that she was your dad let her getting a way. Ever, 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.160 I wish she would give me looks and she would snarl, 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:38.880 and she would tell Jacob was being mean. And you know, 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:42.439 but that's typical teenagers. Yeah, all typical. Sometimes mother was 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:50.280 and ye. The agents bring the conversation back to Jake's 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:55.200 reaction to Hannah Rodin dating other people. So, when when 0:12:55.320 --> 0:13:01.920 Hannah gets your pregnant with the other Yeah, how to 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:07.600 make number one with the other boyfriend or boyfriends? And Jake, 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:13.839 Well one, Jake, they would talk to the other boyfriends. Never, actually, Jake, 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.120 they don't have you ever talked to Charlie Woods? Whenever? 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:22.359 They support me. When they were determined who the paternity 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:25.640 test showed that Charlie Gilly and not Jake Wagner, was 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.880 the father of Hannah's second baby. The agents ask if 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:32.120 Angela was upset about Hannah Ma getting pregnant by another 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.319 man who was not Jake, and even she told me 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:37.040 she had texted me. When she texted me about being pregnant, 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:42.720 she was afraid I would be upsetting. I was upset. 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:48.480 I was upset when she loved Jake. Yeah, here's forensic 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:52.679 medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. One of striking things about 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:56.880 this is they began to talk about the fact that 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:01.280 Hannah had kind of separated her away from the rest 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:03.760 of the family, had gone out and gotten pregnant by 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:07.120 another guy. And I really wonder, you know, she says 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:11.439 that that didn't necessarily upset her. Does anybody actually believe that, 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:13.800 you know, because I think that it would have been 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:18.280 Angela's desire to continue to have controlled, you know, Hannah, 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:21.840 you know, because if you have control over Hannah, you 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.560 have control over the child that she had with Shake. 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:29.560 BCI agent record as Angela about Billy Wagner's relationship with Hannah. 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:33.120 Me rowdin with Hannah. Oh god, he loved that girl. 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:37.360 He caught her his breath, you know, even I mean, 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:40.440 that's why I always hold Chris, I said, Chris, even 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:44.360 if they break up, she's still going to be my daughter. Sorry, 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:49.320 you're going to have to share. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. Well, 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:54.760 we know stuff from interviewing close Wagner family friends that 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:58.480 they were aware that they were kind of under the 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:01.000 lens of law and for and that they were kind 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:05.720 of planning for potentially being interrogated or talked to. And 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.880 so when we hear these recordings, it's so interesting and 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:11.320 fascinating me. I mean, I don't think this is so 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:13.160 off the conflict. I think they had a little bit 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.160 of a script in their heads. You're right. But again, 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:18.520 even if they have a script and they have a plan, 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:23.400 it's real different when you're separated for the first time 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:29.040 in being asked and questioned by authorities. This is the moment. This, 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:33.240 by all accounts, is the moment where authorities collected the 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:38.560 most data that would be later used against them. We're 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:40.920 going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.640 Agents ask Evangela was ever in Chris Rod and Seniors 0:15:51.720 --> 0:16:02.560 trailer trailer one time? I don't know. Well, listen, limits 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:10.880 four four years ago. I don't like sitting only counting 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:13.760 that this much. Don't care one know, it's his dolts 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:17.200 over great, you know, I mean, but no, I don't 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:20.680 like dogs. Dogs at least I mean friendly. You don't 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.440 have to worry about anything like that. No, you you 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:29.320 have to. Okay, let's basicing. Uh if he's there, you're okay. Okay, 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:33.240 chance is hit bull it love you doll so way 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:39.160 as he can be all the home, Okay, Jake, Jake's 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:42.680 got me get every times by chance. I mean, I 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.720 didn't bite his butt off. She was not particularly a 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:49.000 fan of the Rodents. Sounds like I thought they were 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:52.080 too messy. I thought, you know, she never went over 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.240 to Christine or she went over once for the Fourth 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:56.400 of July party and it was too smoky and there 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:59.280 was too much dog air everywhere. Agents then bring it 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:04.040 back to the murders, so we occurs, What were your 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:08.600 initial thoughts? What was horrified? Hannah had just been to 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:13.840 my house just days before the murders. Angela Wagner says 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:16.320 that Hanname Rodin came by to show her new baby 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:24.320 to Jake, George and Angela, Okay, everything cool. Yeah, she 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.359 was making fun of Jake because he had tried to 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.280 dye his hair a little darker brown and then turned 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:33.160 out more black, and she was was making fun of baby, 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.520 you know, about his hair and stuff. And no, we were, 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:39.280 I mean, everything was fine. Investigators bringing the interview back 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:44.879 to the day after the murders, the news like in 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:47.800 the morning or you know what, I don't know it was. 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:52.680 It was morning, how an the news? And were you 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:57.159 guys together? Yeah, Angela tells the agents she was with 0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:59.840 Billy at the Peterson Road residence when she heard the 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.480 news about the Rodents being murdered. What was Jake's response 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:09.879 when he is trying when he heard the new you 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:15.040 guys all together? He was outsight. Agents ask Angela why 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:19.000 she thinks the trailers on her farm were searched by authorities. Okay, 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.239 this is the part that we gave him everything they 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.440 needed and then you know, we get halfway up the 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:27.040 road and they're down on our searching the farm and 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:29.960 then I'm sorry what they get to our stuff and 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:34.400 our framers is ridiculous. All they had done and say, 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:38.520 hey we want to search, I'd open the door, you know, 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.440 search I don't love in the high Angela Wagner is 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:44.320 then asked if there was a written custody agreement between 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.560 Jake and Hannime Rodin. Now, was there any type of 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:51.119 living will or anything like if something were to happen, 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:56.639 And this is what we're you know, you have no 0:18:56.680 --> 0:19:01.640 idea what you have that someone I want to show 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:07.360 you here again, James Pilcher. We saw it in how 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:10.240 they circled around with Billy, and we saw the same 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:14.760 kind of approach. They obviously had the shoe print stuff. 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:17.920 They obviously had the receipt, they obviously had the shell casings. 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:20.520 It takes them two to three hours to get to 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:22.600 the point where they're presenting that in front of them. 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:25.639 The investigator pulls out a document and places it in 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:39.800 front of Angela Wagner. They are okay, hey, yeah, I 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:47.600 don't remember that. The document appears to be a custody 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.640 agreement saying that in the event of Hannahme Rodin's death, 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:53.920 that custody of her daughter would go to Jake Wagner. 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:58.399 It appears to have Hannah's signature on the forum. The 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:04.000 detectives tell Angela they found it in her trailer. This 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.639 is what we're curious about them, and it was do 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:11.240 you know who that is? So your mom will arise, 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:16.159 but you didn't know about it. I don't remember it. Okay, 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:21.359 here again, Stephanie and Jeff. This is unbelievable to be 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:26.000 hearing for the first time. She's speaking so casually, and 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:31.120 she's talking so cavalierly about her relationship with the road 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:34.199 Ins and Billy's relationship with Hannah May, and it all 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:37.280 sounds kind of cozy. Yeah. We covered in season one 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:41.000 of the podcast when Angela Wagner made that public Facebook 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:44.000 post right after the murders, calling Hannah May wrote in 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:46.040 a daughter to her hoping to catch the monsters who 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:49.440 did this, And this interview is like that post on steroids? 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.760 How do you not crack under the pressure. My biggest 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:56.520 takeaway from these recordings is that the Wagner family, at 0:20:56.600 --> 0:21:00.000 least Angela in this instance, really thought they announce our pool. 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:06.560 The document was notarized by Angela's mother, Rita Newcome. The 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:10.080 agents continue to press Angela on the forged custody agreement 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:12.560 that they found in her trailer, but we're just trying 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:16.639 to figure out, um this this is really interesting to me. 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:20.920 It printed out three, three weeks before the work and 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:28.159 you said you yeah, okay, I I I. They did 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:30.960 have those documents and they were able to clearly show, hey, 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:33.960 they're signed here, but they were clearly printed out here 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:38.159 on this day from this website. Blank, How do you 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:40.920 explain that there was printed out a week before the 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:44.359 murders and yet they've got a date two years before? 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:46.840 How do you how do you explain this? So I 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:49.800 can't remember I didn't do it. The agents ask if 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:52.760 Jake Billy or George Wagner could have done the murders. 0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:56.520 So I'm asking you, may you think that my son 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:04.280 or I'm asking you, okay, can you tell me definitively no, yes, 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:09.920 I can. How you definitively know? Because one of my 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:14.320 son would knew that. I said he had nothing against he, 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:18.960 he had nothing handsome and even though him and Hannah 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:23.160 Brook it wasn't enough for that. Agents show Angela Wagner 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:25.920 photos of foot impressions made in blood found at the 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:30.359 crime scene. So what we have the time wise, they 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:34.080 have a database like we do fendis okay, And what 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:37.159 we can do is we can take any shoe tread 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:41.479 in the world and I identify the manufacturer in the size. 0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:46.600 Angela Wagner is then showed a pair of shoes. Don't 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:49.440 ever remember bios for any reason. I remember seeing those. 0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:55.119 I know, No, I see Dad have some of that. 0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:59.040 The agents then show Angela a receipt. We have a 0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:07.439 receipt for those shoes purchased by you. Okay, I purchas, 0:23:09.560 --> 0:23:14.680 I got them, but I don't. They are in a 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:21.320 man's shoes, so they wouldn't wear them. But they wouldn't 0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:24.000 have used them on those because I threw them away. 0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:28.600 But so you remember buying them two weeks before, Yes, 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:31.800 I purchased them. That I am telling you. They didn't 0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:34.040 like them. They wouldn't wear them. You know, they wanted 0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:36.760 a pair of shoes. They always wear boots. Hook you do. 0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:39.359 I bought them and they didn't. I don't know about that. 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:44.120 The agents show Angela a photo of her coming out 0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:47.440 of Walmart the day she purchased the shoes. It was 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:50.320 caught on security camera in the car. Did you go 0:23:50.440 --> 0:23:52.800 to did you go with the kids? I mean you 0:23:52.880 --> 0:23:56.240 look alone in that picture when you went to Walmart 0:23:56.320 --> 0:23:59.920 to buy that stuff back in April two thousand and sixty. Okay, 0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:03.120 you're alone, but I don't know that you're alone getting 0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:06.000 back in the car. You're not. No, I was not 0:24:06.119 --> 0:24:11.320 the one. Who are you? Yeah? I know the kids 0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:15.959 was given sleeping weird than what we would have been 0:24:15.960 --> 0:24:18.760 in the hardently the name of that, I think I 0:24:18.880 --> 0:24:21.600 think we were all on the farm that I can 0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:27.080 remember that one. Okay, two weeks before the homicide, you 0:24:27.200 --> 0:24:31.960 purchased two pairs of shoes which identically match bloody footprints 0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:36.280 in a crime scene. Okay, that's another report from the 0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:42.360 shoe confirming to match the treads. The database. They pourn 0:24:42.440 --> 0:24:45.159 up with the shoe tread to verify the match. This 0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:49.679 is a lab work from the case agents present another 0:24:49.800 --> 0:24:53.720 lab report to Angelo Agner, and I've done a coole match. 0:24:55.440 --> 0:25:01.760 There were casinges recovered from several of the crime scenes. Okay, okay, 0:25:02.440 --> 0:25:08.879 various calibers, Yeah, okay, these identically match these shell casings 0:25:09.160 --> 0:25:16.400 in your drove away. Okay, one twos were five from 0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:20.720 the same gun that killed There's no way Angel exa 0:25:21.000 --> 0:25:25.520 identical match. There's no way that they were. There's no way. 0:25:26.000 --> 0:25:29.160 We have everyone in our ballistics lab, every expert, every 0:25:29.200 --> 0:25:33.399 fire experts review and confirmed is an identical match. You 0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:36.080 do know We're not the only ones that shot guns 0:25:36.080 --> 0:25:40.359 that are half making. They're all people down Ever, the 0:25:40.480 --> 0:25:43.200 time span we've been them, there's been several people down there. 0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:47.920 Angel and Casings are a definitive match on a blueprint. 0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:50.200 And I understand what you're saying on that. I mean, 0:25:50.440 --> 0:25:53.879 it's a blueprint. When I fire, When I fire my 0:25:54.040 --> 0:26:00.560 weapon mind issue gun, and it ejects around. Okay, uses 0:26:00.640 --> 0:26:08.520 somewhere else. That's an identical marriage. James Pilcher. One thing 0:26:08.600 --> 0:26:10.720 that strikes me in these interviews, in this tape with 0:26:10.840 --> 0:26:14.840 Angela is how her demeanor changes the minute they show 0:26:14.840 --> 0:26:18.640 her the stuff about the shoes, the bullets, the shell 0:26:18.720 --> 0:26:22.399 case things, all of that. She han't an answer for it, 0:26:22.640 --> 0:26:26.160 but you can almost see based on her voice change 0:26:26.320 --> 0:26:28.920