1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: It was perhaps the first time George Wagger the fourth 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: heard his mother's voice in the four years since the 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: family was arrested. Made you think that my son needed 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: or money in your veil? And I'm asking you, yes, 5 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: how you defenditively? Know? I want the truth from you? Okay? 6 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: Did something happen? You can see her attempting to fool 7 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: you know, everyone involved in this. Let's face it, We've 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,959 Speaker 1: got eight dead bodies, four separate locations. How in the 9 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: world do you think that you can escape that this 10 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: is the Pipon massacre. Returned to Pike County season four, 11 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: episode fourteen, the matriarch speaks. It's important to note that 12 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: George Wagner the fourth has pleaded not guilty and has 13 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: maintained he did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, 14 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to 15 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: all charges. In the previous episode, we heard about how 16 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: law enforcement came to view the Wagners as suspects and 17 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: the murders of the Rodin, Manly and Gilly families. Before 18 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: it was suspicion and things weren't adding up. Yes, Lead 19 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: investigator Ryan Scheiderer says that changed about a year after 20 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: the homicides, when BCI agents matched spent shell casings at 21 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: the Wagner's home in Peebles. Based on that ballistics evidence, 22 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: agents used sirche horns to take deep dives into mobile 23 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: devices used by George Wagner, who's on trial for murder, 24 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: his brother Jake, and their parents, Billy and Angela Wagner. 25 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: After originally preparing to intercept the Wagners in North Dakota, 26 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: investigators had to scramble to intercept the family at another 27 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: Canadian border entry point. The Wagners were house hunting in Alaska. 28 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: As they returned, agents intercepted them at the Canadian border 29 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: a year after the murders. Now Wagner is a cues 30 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: of helping kill eight members of the Rodent and Gilly families. 31 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: Investigators detained the Wagners and placed each member of the 32 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: family in a separate room. At this time, I believe 33 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: you indicated that you were going to interview them as 34 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: suspects instead of your prior contacts with them. Correct. The 35 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: gig was up. They knew we were looking at them well. 36 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: The Wagners were in custody. Agencies a laptop and an 37 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: iPad from their vehicle. Law enforcement also placed listening devices 38 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: in the Wagner's SUV and bugged their phones. Upon cross examination, 39 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: John Parker from the defense brings up the quality of 40 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: the audio obtained from the bug the agent's placed in 41 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: the Wagner's vehicle. There's really nothing useful that came from 42 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: those listening devices on the vehicles. At first. I did 43 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: not work as well as we hoped. Correct, right, there 44 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: was nothing useful gait out of that. Correct, The quality 45 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: of the audio was less than desirable. There was nothing useful, 46 00:02:55,639 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: gait Correct. Here's James Pilcher, longtime investigative reporter in Cincinnati, 47 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: now with Local twelve. And as it turns out, that 48 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: was kind of a snapoo too, because the road noise 49 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: drowned out anything they could hear. They really didn't get 50 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: really much of anything out of that, except, you know, 51 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: when everybody came out, They came out one at a time, 52 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 1: and they sat there and they didn't talk about anything. Normally, 53 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: if you're innocent and you're pulled over, and all of 54 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: a sudden you get out of a four hour interview, 55 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:28,679 Speaker 1: you're going to be asking your family members what the 56 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,399 Speaker 1: heck is going on. None of that nothing was hurt 57 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: like that on those recordings. Because of the rush to 58 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: set up in Montana as opposed to North Dakota, agents 59 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: were unable to videotape the interviews since the bug in 60 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: the vehicle did not pick up usable audio. The audio 61 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: recordings of the interviews at the Canadian border where all 62 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: the investigators had you interviewed, Jay, Is that correct? Yes? 63 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: Myself and special Agent Moulthard okay. And do you recall 64 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: how long that interview goes across four to six hours? 65 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: Maybe yes? And Judge we would ask that we'd be 66 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: allowed to play Jake Zama. At this point, the prosecution 67 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: of Jacks and Judge Steering instructs the jury to leave 68 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: the room for a fifteen minute recess. Judge Jeering asks 69 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: for the prosecution and defense to present their arguments on 70 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: whether Jake's taped interviews should be played for the court. 71 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: Just the plain reading of evidence, Rule eight oh one 72 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: says that the co conspirac statement is attributed to the defendant. 73 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: There's a lot of talk of rule eight oh one, 74 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: but the gist of it is that the defense cannot 75 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: introduce his evidence. Another co conspirator's testimony during cross only 76 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: the state is allowed to do that. That's the whole 77 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: nature of the co conspiracy. So they all denied it, right, 78 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: that was part of the conspiracy. So he does not 79 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: get to put it it now. Even when Jane testifies, 80 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: he certainly can use this to cross examine him as 81 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: a prior inconsistent statement. At that point, John Parker argues 82 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: that Jake's testimony is part of the defense's constitutional right 83 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: to a complete defense being a truth. The co conspirator 84 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: shading is covered up his ass. We shouldn't have to 85 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:18,359 Speaker 1: wait sign if they call GA he comes out of this. 86 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: Officer articipated, he's probably bring when it's time to make 87 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: a ruling. Judge Steering decides he needs to hear more argument. 88 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 1: I'm not going to decide ultimately today whether we're going 89 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: to be able to play that tape in the defense 90 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:39,119 Speaker 1: side of the case. I've sided that tomorrow morning, after 91 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: I've heard arguments here, you should be ready about eight 92 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: forty five to go on the record and argue that issue, 93 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 1: and then I'll make that decision. They let the jury 94 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: back into the courtroom and Judge Steering addresses the court. Thanks, gentlemen, 95 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: the court. We're going to have an early day close today. 96 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: The court has some things to do that do not 97 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: involve the jury, deering, closes the day early to give 98 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: the defense and prosecution time to prepare for tomorrow's hearing. 99 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: Here again, James Pilcher. So I pretty much shut down 100 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: the trial for the afternoon, and actually the judge held 101 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: it under advisement and said I'll roul on it tomorrow. 102 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: So we're all on pins and needles the next day 103 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: as to whether or not we're gonna have to sit 104 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: through six hours of listening to Ryan and Jake talk 105 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: to each other. News media reports The latest development in 106 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,679 Speaker 1: the trial the defense trying to play Jake Wagner's first 107 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 1: interrogation tape today, but the prosecution said, wait, you can't 108 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: do that. We have to enter that as evidence first, 109 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: And the judge said, show up here tomorrow morning and 110 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 1: prepare to argue about it and he'll make a decision then. 111 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 1: So that brings us to tomorrow. Will jurors hear Jake 112 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: Wagner's five hour interrogation tape, Will they hear Angela Wagner's 113 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 1: two hour interrogation tape? And how will George the man 114 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 1: on trial come up in those tapes. But the next morning, 115 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: it's not Jake's interview that makes news, George Wagner the 116 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: fourth providing an explosive audio recording of his mom, Angela's 117 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: interrogation by BCI agents. It was perhaps the first time 118 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: George Wager the fourth heard his mother's voice in the 119 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: four years since the family was arrested. Before the jury 120 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: is brought in, Judge Deering Hear's arguments about whether to 121 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: allow in the audio recording of Jake's interview from when 122 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: the Wagners were intercepted at the Canadian border. Prosecutor Angie 123 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: Caneppa lays out her reasons for the objection. Jake made 124 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: a complete denial. There was nothing that was taken from 125 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: that interview by a special adaier that informed next investigative steps. 126 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: So I guess really one question would be, for what 127 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: purpose is this being requested to be played. Here's John 128 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: Parker with the defense, because Ja has flilitated, Angela has 129 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: experience experiency, they are all right, and this recording jas 130 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: efforts to cover up his involve Finally, Judge Jerry makes 131 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: a ruling, Well, I think I understand the arguments of all, 132 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: but I'm going to deny the request of defense to 133 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: play the tape at this time. Here again, James Pilcher. 134 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: One of the interesting things about this day was the 135 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: prosecution specifically chooses not to play the tape of the 136 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: recording they made with George, and there were some questions, Okay, 137 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: why aren't they playing this to show what he was 138 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: saying at the time. As for the strategy of this, 139 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: we think possibly they're not playing it. So if and 140 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: when George decides to take the stand, he can't tailor 141 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: his testimony to what he said at the border. And 142 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: it's actually part of this argument about Jake as well, 143 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: Jake's recording, and they say no, that allows him to 144 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: testify on his own behalf without taking the sand. So 145 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: that's where that argument comes up, and it turns into 146 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: another legal battle and it's won. The prosecution wins with 147 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: Jake's interview ruled as inadmissible. At this point in the trial, 148 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: the prosecution calls up their next witness, Please treasure right Hayn, 149 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: Can you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're 150 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: about to give show me the truth, the whole truth, 151 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: and nothing but the truth, as you shall answer into God, 152 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: I did BCI Agent Jennifer thomas Ford has six years 153 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: experience with the Special Investigations Unit in Ohio BCI. She 154 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: wears a polka dot shirt and a blazer with straight 155 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: brown hair that falls to her shoulders. She is relaxed 156 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: on the stand. Agent Commasford was one of the agents 157 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: present for the searches of the Wagner's farm and trailers. 158 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: She was also on the team of agents that interviewed 159 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: the Wagners at the Canadian border. You treated it like 160 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: a custodial interview. Tell us what that means. We treated 161 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: it as a castido interview in that we mirandized Angela 162 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: because we treated it as though she was in custody, 163 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 1: not free to leave, and that she was being interrogated. 164 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: So we read her her miranda rights. You're her this time, 165 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: I would request to play the recording of Special Agent 166 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: Thomasford's interview with Andela Wagner at the Montana border. The 167 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: prosecution cues up the tape of Angela's interview and begins 168 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: playing it for the jury. The defendant, George Wagner, stares 169 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: down at his feet, but the reason was obviously okay. 170 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: Dealing with all that all that noise going down in 171 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: Type County, and that's the reason we came up here 172 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: to get away from all that. Okay, okay, tracing the 173 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: media is all over. So have you been following any 174 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 1: of that of course? Yeah, you know, we just want 175 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 1: to get away from down there and talk to you 176 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: outside of the state. Ohile, Type County. I think it 177 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: would be best for everybody. I have some personal questions 178 00:10:54,120 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: for you though. How was the last oh wear here again, 179 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: James Pilcher, This recording of Angela is really significant. First 180 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: of all, it's the first time we heard her voice 181 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: in the courtroom. But second of all, it gives us 182 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 1: a sense of their state of mind as they're becoming 183 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 1: aware that they're being suspects. They're being treated as suspects. 184 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: Agent Comasford and Agent Rick Ward asked about Angelo Wagner's 185 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: relationship with the Rodent family. Relationship I had with Ruins 186 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: was sooner handed and then my son Jake were together 187 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: for five years. Yeah, Okay, did getting married. Yes, they 188 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: had a waiting planned, everything was planned out for that, 189 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 1: all this doubt. She had everything organized, everything ready, and 190 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: I love that she wanted Britt and she did break 191 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: and well it was her of course, she was the 192 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: love of his life. I mean, my son doesn't take 193 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: anything likely. You know why you don't want to work? 194 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: You know what I don't know. I know that Hannah 195 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: was really young when her Jake got together. What's the 196 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: age difference between two? Annah was thirteen, my son was seventeen. 197 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: Sixteen and a half. Some month, investigators ask Angela about 198 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: her relationship with Hannahme Rodin, So, your relationship with Hannah 199 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: was good. I thought she was a school wreck. But 200 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: I thought she was a school rap because she really was. 201 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: I mean, no, that's but she was. Your dad loved her. 202 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: Get away a m She would give me looks and 203 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 1: she would snarl, and she would tell Jake I was 204 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: being mean, and you know, but that's typical teenagers, all typical. 205 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:49,359 Speaker 1: Sometimes mother in laws and the agents bring the conversation 206 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: back to Jake's reaction to Hannah rode In dating other people. 207 00:12:53,160 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: So when when Annah gets pregnant with the other Yeah, 208 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: how did that quote number one? With the other boyfriend 209 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: or boyfriends and Jake? Well one, Jake ne would talk 210 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:14,559 Speaker 1: to the other boyfriends. Actually, Jake the only time he 211 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: ever talked to Charlie was whenever the determined the paternity 212 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: test showed that Charlie Gilly and not Jake Wagner, was 213 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: the father of Hannah's second baby. The agents ask if 214 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: Angela was upset about Hannah may getting pregnant by another 215 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: man who was not Jake even she told me she 216 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: had texted me. When she texted me about being pregnant, 217 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: she was gray. I would be ut, I was upset. 218 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: I was upset when she looked Jake. Yeah, here's forensic 219 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. One of striking things about 220 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: this is they begin to talk about the fact that 221 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: Hannah had kind of separated her away from the rest 222 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: of the family, had gone out and gotten pregnant by 223 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: another guy, and I really wonder, you know, she says 224 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: that that didn't necessarily upset her. Does anybody actually believe that, 225 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: you know, because I think that it would have been 226 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 1: Angela's desire to continue to have controlled, you know, Hannah, 227 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: you know, because if you have control over Hannah, you 228 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: have control over the child that she had with Jake. 229 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: BCI Agent Reward as Angelo about Billy Wagner's relationship with 230 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: Hannah may rodin with Hannah, Oh God, he loved that girl. 231 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: He caught her his breath. You know, even, I mean 232 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: that's I always held Chris, I said, Chris, even if 233 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: they break up, she's still going to be sorry that 234 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: you're going to have to share. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. Well, 235 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: we know Steph from interviewing close Wagner family friends that 236 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: they were aware that they were kind of under the 237 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: lens of law enforce and that they were kind of 238 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: planning for potentially being interrogated or talked to. And so 239 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: when we hear those recordings, it's so interesting and fascinating. Me. 240 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think this is so off the cofflic. 241 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: I think they had a little bit of a script 242 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: in their heads. You're right. But again, even if they 243 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: have a script and they have a plan, it's real 244 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: different when you're separated for the first time and being 245 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: asked and questioned by authorities. This is the moment. This, 246 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: by all accounts, is the moment where authorities collected the 247 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: most data that would be later used against them. We're 248 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. 249 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: Agents ask Evangelo. Was ever in Chris rodin Senior's trailer? 250 00:15:52,800 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: You better that trailer. We got very Chris Trailer one time, Gosh, 251 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: my daughter, well is he living here? Four maybe four 252 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: years ago? I don't like sitting on the couch and 253 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: that this much don't appear wrong? Know it's his dogs 254 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: were great, you know I mean that. No, I don't 255 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: like dogs at least I mean friendly. You don't have 256 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: to worry about anything like that. No, you you have 257 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: to okay this space way if he's there, you're okay. Now, 258 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: chance is bit will big love you doll so way 259 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: as he can be. All that's wrong? You know they're okay. 260 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: Jay Stott didn't every times by chance didn't bite. But 261 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: she was not particularly a fan of the Rodents. Sounds 262 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: like I thought they were too messy, thought, you know, 263 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: she never went over Christina or she went over once 264 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: for the Fourth of July party and it was too 265 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: smoky and there was too much dog air everywhere. Agents 266 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: then bring it back to the murders occurs, what what 267 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: were your initial dogs? Was horrified. Henna had just been 268 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: to my house just days before the murders. Angela Wagner 269 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: says that Hannahme Rodin came by to show her new 270 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: baby to Jake, George and Angela. Okay, and everything cool. Yeah, 271 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 1: she was making fun of Jake because he had tried 272 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: to dye his hair a little darker brown and it 273 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: turned out more black, and she was was making fun 274 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: of maybe you know him about his hair and stuff. 275 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: And no, we were I mean, everything was fine. Investigators 276 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: bring the interview back to the day after the murders. 277 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: How the news like in the morning or you know what, 278 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: I don't know it was. It was morning watching the news. 279 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: And were you guys together, Yeah, Angela tells the agents 280 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: she was with Billy at the Peterson Road residence when 281 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: she heard the news about the Rodents being murdered. What 282 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 1: was Jake's response, when you guys altogether he was outside. 283 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: Agents ask Angelo why she thinks the trailers on her 284 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: farm were searched by authorities. This is the part I'm 285 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: upset about. We gave him everything they needed and then 286 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: you know, we get halfway through the road and they're 287 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 1: down there searching the farm and then I'm sorry what 288 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: they did to our stuff and our trailers. It's ridiculous. 289 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: All they have done is say, hey, we want to search, 290 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: opened the door, you know, search. I've done nothing to hide. 291 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: Angela Wagner has then asked if there was a written 292 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: custody agreement between Jake and Annime Rodin Now, was there 293 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: any type of living will or anything like if something 294 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: were to happen, And this is what we're you know 295 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: you have that, Tom, Someone want to show you here again, 296 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: James Pilcher. We saw it and how they circled around 297 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: with Billy, and we saw the same kind of approach. 298 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: They obviously had the shoe print stuff. They obviously had 299 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: the receipt, they obviously had the shell casings. It takes 300 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 1: them two to three hours to get to the point 301 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: where they're presenting that in front of them. The investigator 302 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: pulls out a document and places it in front of 303 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: Angela Wagner. Right, these are okay, yeah, it is. You 304 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: don't remember that. The document appears to be a custody 305 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: agreement saying that in the event of Hannah ma Roden's death, 306 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: that custody of her daughter would go to Jake Wagner. 307 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: It appears to have Hannah's signature on the form. The 308 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: detectives tell Angela they found it in her trailer. This 309 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 1: is what we're curious about them, And then it was 310 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: do you know who that is? Yeah, that's my mom. 311 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: That's your mom. So your mom notorized this night, but 312 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 1: you didn't know about it. I don't remember it. Okay, 313 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: here again, Stephanie and Jeff. This is unbelievable to be 314 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: hearing for the first time. She's speaking so casually, and 315 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: she's talking so cavalierly about her relationship with the Rodents 316 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 1: and Billie's relationship with Hannah May, and it all sounds 317 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,719 Speaker 1: kind of cozy. Yeah. We covered in season one of 318 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: the podcast when Angela Wagner made that public Facebook post 319 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: right after the murders, calling Hannah May wrote and a 320 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: daughter to her hoping to catch the monsters who did this, 321 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 1: And this interview is like that post on steroids? How 322 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: do you not crack under the pressure. My biggest takeaway 323 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: from these recordings is that the Wagner family, at least 324 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: Angela in this instance, really thought they conn ouncemart The 325 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: document was notorized by Angela's mother, Rita Newcome. The agents 326 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: continue to press Angela on the forged custody agreement that 327 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: they found in her trailer. We we're just trying to 328 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: figure out this. This is really interesting to me and 329 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: printed out three weeks before the murder, and you said, 330 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:28,479 Speaker 1: you don't, Okay, I just I don't. They did have 331 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 1: those documents, and they were able to clearly show, hey, 332 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: they're signed here, but they were clearly printed out here 333 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: on this day from this website. Blank, How do you 334 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: explain that there was printed out a week before the 335 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: murders and yet they've got a date two years before. 336 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: How do you how do you explain this? So I 337 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: can't remember I didn't do it. The agents ask if Jake, 338 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: Billy or George Wagner could have done the murders. So 339 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: I'm asking you think that or anybody in your family. 340 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 1: I'm asking you, okay, can you tell me? Yes? I 341 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: can how you definitively know because one of my son 342 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't do that. He said he had nothing against uh 343 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 1: he had and even though him and Hannah brokeok it 344 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 1: wasn't enough for that agent show Angela Wagner photos of 345 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: foot impressions made in blood found at the crime scene. 346 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: So what we have of Primeize is they have a 347 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 1: database like we do finger press, Okay, And what we 348 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: can do is we can take any shoe tread in 349 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: the world and I identify the manufacturer and the size. 350 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: Angela Wagner is then showed a pair of shoes. No 351 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: ever remember buying those for any reason. I remember seeing 352 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: those familiar to know what I know? No, I haven't 353 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: seen dad have some enough. The agents then show Angela 354 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: a receipt. We have a receipts for those shoes purchased 355 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: by you. Okay, I did purchase them. I got them, 356 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: but I don't. They are I don't mean shoes, so 357 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: they wouldn't wear them. But they wouldn't have used them 358 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: on those because I throw them all blame. So you 359 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: remember buying them two weeks before? Yeah, I purchased them, 360 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 1: but I'm telling you they didn't like them. They wouldn't 361 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: wear them. You know, they wanted a pair of shoes. 362 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 1: They always wear boots hook to do. I bought them 363 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: and they didn't. I don't know about that. The agents 364 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 1: show Angela a photo of her coming out of Walmart 365 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,919 Speaker 1: the day she purchased the shoes. It was caught on 366 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: security cameras in the car. Did you go to did 367 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 1: you go with the kids? Did I mean you look 368 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: alone in that picture when you went to Walmart to 369 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: buy that stuff back in April two thousand and sixteen. Okay, 370 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: you're alone, but I don't know that you're alone getting 371 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 1: back in the car. You're not. No, I was not alone. 372 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: Where you will? I know the kids? Was the kids sleeping? Weird? 373 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: What we would have been accordingly the DUA? I think 374 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: I think they were all in the car. I remember 375 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: that one. Okay, two weeks before the homicide, you purchased 376 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 1: two pairs of shoes which identically match bloody footprints in 377 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 1: the crime scene. Okay, that's another report from the shoe 378 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: confirming to match the tread. Since the database they born 379 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: up with the shoe tread to verify the match, this 380 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: report from the case, the driveway agents present another lab 381 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: report to Angelo Wagner. They're an identical match. There were 382 00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 1: cases recovered from several of the crime scenes. Okay, okayburious calibers, yeah, okay, 383 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: these identically match the shellcasings in your groundway. Okay, two 384 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: one twocases. We're from the same god they killed. There's 385 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 1: no way, Angela, it's an identical match. There's no way 386 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: that they were. There's no way. We have every one 387 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: in our ballistics lab, every expert, every fire experts review 388 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,120 Speaker 1: and confirm is an identical match. You do know we're 389 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: not the only ones that shot guns in our house 390 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: right then, there'real people down and in the Times fan 391 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: we've been there, there's been several people down there. Angeli, 392 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: casings are a definitive match on a blueprint, And I 393 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: understand what you're saying on that I did. It's a blueprint. 394 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: When I fired, when I fire my weapon, my issued gun, 395 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: and it ejects around. Okay, I'm using somewhere else. That's 396 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: an identical marriage. James Pilcher. One thing that strikes me 397 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,360 Speaker 1: in these interviews, in this table with Angela is how 398 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: her demeanor changes the minute they show her the stuff 399 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: about the shoes, the bullets, the shell case things, all 400 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: of that. She hadn't an answer for it, but you 401 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: can almost see based on her voice change and everything else, 402 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: and how she starts hammering and pawing and hemming and 403 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: all of that the minute they present that how it 404 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: her demeanor changes. She immuniately gets defensive to sell a huge, 405 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: huge moment there. Joseph Scott Morgan. They've lived in a bubble. 406 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: It's very it's protected from everything else from the outside 407 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 1: of the world. Suddenly you know that bubble is no 408 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: longer existent. You understand that somebody has penetrated, and somebody's 409 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,640 Speaker 1: penetrated that you don't have any control over, and he've 410 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: been able to control all these other people in this environment, 411 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: and maybe for the first time, fear sets in at 412 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: that moment you think you've got all the bases covered. 413 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: You know, you're running off the wallmarked my shoes. You're 414 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 1: just you're doing all this and you're trying to work 415 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: your logistical magic here, and suddenly somebody's penetrated, and suddenly 416 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: you realize there's actually somebody that's smarter than you that's 417 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: in the room. But I love the truth from you. Okay, 418 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: did something happen. No, I'm not. I'm aware, I'm nothing happen. 419 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: But there's but there's you say, you're you told me 420 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: ten minutes ago, you're definitively sure. I am. There's too 421 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 1: much more definitive after all this, After all that, we 422 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 1: have casings that we use, we have the same that 423 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,159 Speaker 1: was using the price that was shot at your house. 424 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,239 Speaker 1: We have shoes. I guess the bottom line is we 425 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: have all this. You can understand how this appears. I see, 426 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 1: And this is the if you're gonna have any chance 427 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 1: to talk with us about what happened? What knowledge you 428 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: have is now Angelia and not being an arm so 429 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,919 Speaker 1: I can tell why they you're talking. Okay, well I'm 430 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: not I'm just gonna I'm gonna I don't want to know. 431 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just gonna stop right here, and I 432 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: can give a tone. That's what I'm gonna do, because 433 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm just to say, agents stop the 434 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: interview and the recording. Here's James Pilcher, followed by Joseph 435 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. I mean you could see it. Right as 436 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: soon as they started presenting her the hard evidence she 437 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: claimed up She's like, I need a lawyer. Suddenly, all 438 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: of that planning that she's done to purchasing the controlling 439 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: of everybody, suddenly that's becoming unraveled. She knows she at 440 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: least has enough of a survival instinct about her at 441 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: that point in time. She knows that she needs to 442 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: reach out for counsel, and I mean quick, because the 443 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: thing is spinning in a flat spin. Uh and it's 444 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: gonna turn out poorly. Forward, let's stop here for another break. 445 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: After hearing the interview with Angela Wagner in its entirety, 446 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,959 Speaker 1: John Parker with the defense gets up for cross examination. 447 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: He asks agent Coomusford about Angelo Wagner's home in Bethel Hill, 448 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: where she lived with her family for a time. Were 449 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: you aware that she was involved as a fraudulent arsons? 450 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: I recall some limited information about there being arson, he claims. 451 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: Did you know that one of the houses that burned 452 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: down that she had built had a marijuana grow room 453 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: in the basement in her direction? I don't know that. 454 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: I was aware of that at Buffle Hill, now all right? 455 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: Were you aware of her dog breeding business, as she 456 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: fraudulently represented the dogs with a pure bread when they 457 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: were not No, I was not aware of that. Now, 458 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: and Angela told you that Jake was devastated at the 459 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: news of Hannah's death. Yes, she did say that, and 460 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: you later learned that Jake is actually one of the 461 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: shothand and killed her. You learn fair to say angel 462 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: has been very deceitful about many things. I would say 463 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: that she's been deceitful about things. Yes. At that point, 464 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: the end of the defense goes to the BCI agent 465 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: who conducted the interview, asking her, Hey, did you ask 466 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: her about the dog breeding business? Did you ask her 467 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,959 Speaker 1: about the Arsons. Did you ask about the marijuana business? 468 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: They said, no, we were trying to solve the murder, 469 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: but they were I think trying to sow seeds of 470 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: doubt about the effectiveness of the investigation, or at least 471 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: the effectiveness of the questions that they asked. She asks 472 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: Agent Comusford if any members of the Wagner family had 473 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: concerns about the Rodents having custody of the child that 474 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: Jake and Hannah shared. My understanding is there were concerns 475 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: on the part of the Wagner family that would become 476 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: under the custody of the Rodent family. So did you 477 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: know which of the Wagners had those concerns, specifically Angela, Jake, 478 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: George and Billy. They're building to this conspiracy that it 479 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: wasn't just a couple of people, that was the entire family. 480 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: And this family is such that if one person knows it, 481 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: all four of them know it. So they're still building 482 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: to this. They're driving to Alaska, six of them with 483 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: two little kids in one car, across country, thousands of 484 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: miles together. How would they be able to be that 485 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: close and share their fine answers and all of that 486 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: and yet not know about killing eight people and planning 487 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: to kill eight people and building the guns to kill 488 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: eight people and all of that. Special Prosecutor Angiekneppa redirects. 489 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: You were asked it appeared that Angela Wagner was alone 490 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: when she was in the store purchase seeing those shoes, 491 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: and your response was what it was my understanding inside 492 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: the store that she was alone. Yes, When she was 493 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: outside of the store, was she alone? No? Okay? And 494 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: when you base out video evidence okay, specifically she got 495 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: into the back of the vehicle, yes, correct, So who 496 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: was with Angela Wagner when she bought the shoes at Walmart? 497 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: More on that next time. For more information on the 498 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Kati 499 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: Underscore Studios. The Pikedon Maskers produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane, 500 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: Chris Cacaro, Andrew Arnou, Abril Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. 501 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by Jeff Tooi music by Jared Aston. 502 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: The pike Damasacar is a production of iHeart Radio and 503 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: Kati Studios. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the 504 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 505 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: your favorite shows. Please welcome Markite County Dogged Festival. Queen Lord, 506 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: I just thank you for bringing us all together as 507 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: a community. Okay, all sad? There's blood all over the house. 508 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: Who could have killed eight family members in one nye? 509 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: I lost my best friends and I will never be 510 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: the same because of that day. Four crime scenes, no DNA, 511 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: no witnesses. The killer left those children laying in their 512 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: mother's blood. The word that comes to my overkill. Who 513 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: was the last or month I'm telling you is a framer. 514 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,799 Speaker 1: I'm not sitting in prison. One thing I learned, the 515 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: smaller the town, the bigger the sacreds. Be sure to 516 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 1: watch our upcoming documentary, The Pike County Murders of Family Massacre, 517 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: premiering on NBC Universal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on 518 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 1: Peacock this Thanksgiving Day weekend November twenty fourth and November 519 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: twenty fifth. Please check your local listings and our hearts 520 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: are with the Rodents and the Gilly families.