WEBVTT - Tea: The Splendid Elixir, Part 2

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<v Speaker 1>The immortal Dan Chew abandoned eating jade elixirs, picking tea instead.

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<v Speaker 1>He drank and grew feathered wings. The world is unaware

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<v Speaker 1>of the mansion of imminent and hidden immortals. People do

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<v Speaker 1>not know of the palace of transmuting bone into clouds.

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<v Speaker 1>The lad of Cloudy Mountain blended it in a gold cauldron.

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<v Speaker 1>How hollow the fame of the Man of Chew and

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<v Speaker 1>his book of Tea. Late on a frosty night, breaking

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<v Speaker 1>cakes off fragrant tea brood to overflowing of the pale

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<v Speaker 1>yellow frock. I sip and am reborn, Bestowed by the gentleman.

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<v Speaker 1>This tea dispels my suffering, cleansing my mind from worry

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<v Speaker 1>and fear, come mourning. The emotions of the fragrant brazier

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<v Speaker 1>remain intoxicated. Still we walk across the clouds reflected in

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<v Speaker 1>tiger stream in high song, I send the gentleman off

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<v Speaker 1>well to stuff to blow your mind. Production of my

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<v Speaker 1>Heart Radio. Hey, you welcome to stuff to blow your mind.

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<v Speaker 1>My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. That

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<v Speaker 1>is from a song of Drinking Tea On the departure

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<v Speaker 1>of zing wrong by Jao Ran. This particular bit of

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<v Speaker 1>Chinese poetry UM, I came across when I was reading

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<v Speaker 1>a blog post four ancient Chinese poems on t in

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<v Speaker 1>one symphony. This was on the website Tranquility Tuesdays, and

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<v Speaker 1>I found this one interesting because the the author of

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<v Speaker 1>this piece pointed out that the piece that we opened

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<v Speaker 1>the first episode off with the seven bowls of tea

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<v Speaker 1>is just very well sided. You'll find it referenced in

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<v Speaker 1>just about any history of tea. Uh, it's it frequently

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<v Speaker 1>shows up on tea blogs and so forth. The author

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<v Speaker 1>here noted that, you know, given that it is you

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<v Speaker 1>know overm cited, uh, that one should also include other

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<v Speaker 1>poems of note, and this is one such poem well

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<v Speaker 1>so in the original poem, I'd say the major theme

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<v Speaker 1>was sort of the mounting levels of of experience that

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<v Speaker 1>come with each successive cup of tea up until you

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<v Speaker 1>hit the danger zone, crossing the threshold from the sixth

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<v Speaker 1>to the dreaded seventh cup. In this case, what what

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<v Speaker 1>would you say? The main themes are I see here

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<v Speaker 1>um kind of a kind of a community or a

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<v Speaker 1>filial aspect to to the tea talking about you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the lab bruise it, and then these two drink it together,

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<v Speaker 1>though I'm not sure exactly who these two people are

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<v Speaker 1>supposed to be. Yeah, there's definitely more of an earth

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<v Speaker 1>bound since here I'm getting you know. It is of

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<v Speaker 1>course beautifully written and has that kind of ethereal quality

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<v Speaker 1>to it as well. But the Tea is not just

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<v Speaker 1>taking you and transforming you and into into an immortal

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<v Speaker 1>and sending you to a mythical land. Uh, It's it's

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<v Speaker 1>making you feel reborn, but also all of the world

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<v Speaker 1>as well, or at least that's my interpretation of it.

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<v Speaker 1>So anyway, Yeah, this is part two of our look

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<v Speaker 1>at T're we're already hearing from some folks regarding our

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<v Speaker 1>first episode, and in the second episode we're gonna continue

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<v Speaker 1>the journey. So go back and listen to part one

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<v Speaker 1>if you haven't heard it yet, because in that last

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<v Speaker 1>episode we discussed the botanical facts concerning T as well

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<v Speaker 1>as some myths about its origin. But now that we've

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<v Speaker 1>established what T is and where it's spring from and

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<v Speaker 1>reference some of the mythological ideas about te and read

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of poems. Uh. This most recent was the

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<v Speaker 1>most tank dynasty by the way. Um. At this point,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's time to discuss the history of t

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<v Speaker 1>uh in a little more detail, especially as it concerns

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<v Speaker 1>the ways that it can be prepared and was prepared

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<v Speaker 1>across time. So I think that it makes sense, first

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<v Speaker 1>of all, to just look at some of the steps

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<v Speaker 1>that are frequently employed in preparing tea uh in uh

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<v Speaker 1>you know, after it's been harvest what happens between it

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<v Speaker 1>growing on the plant that we discussed in part one

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<v Speaker 1>and somehow making it into a cup or bowl of

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<v Speaker 1>tea the beverage, right, and so one thing we talked

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<v Speaker 1>about in the previous episode is how different types of

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<v Speaker 1>tea that you get, say black tea versus green tea

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<v Speaker 1>versus wide or oolong, they will usually be from the

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<v Speaker 1>same plant or the same of a couple of variants

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<v Speaker 1>of this plant Camellia sinensis. There there's one t plant,

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<v Speaker 1>and so the differences you get in the different tea

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<v Speaker 1>s are based on how it is processed and prepared,

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<v Speaker 1>right right. So um. One of the books that I've

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<v Speaker 1>been looking at here is Laura C. Martin's A History

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<v Speaker 1>of Tea, and I think the author here does a

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<v Speaker 1>fabulous job laying out the history and and also the

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<v Speaker 1>different steps involved in creating these beverages of tea. She

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<v Speaker 1>points out that no matter what sort of tea preparation

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<v Speaker 1>you're talking about, certain steps are common, too many of them.

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<v Speaker 1>Not all varieties of tea involve all the steps, but

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<v Speaker 1>it's worth going over them all and then we can say, well,

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<v Speaker 1>this one doesn't involve this step, and this one does

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<v Speaker 1>involve this step. Okay. So it starts, of course, with

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<v Speaker 1>the gathering of the leaves. Usually on tea farms, they

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<v Speaker 1>will be collected as flushes, these sort of top buds

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<v Speaker 1>of a couple of leaves and a shoot coming off

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<v Speaker 1>the top of the plant. Uh. Those will be harvested

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<v Speaker 1>and the rest of the plan will be left there

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<v Speaker 1>to produce new flushes in the future. And so you

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<v Speaker 1>gather a bunch of these flushes of leaves, and then

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<v Speaker 1>what do you do with them? Yeah, you could, I guess,

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<v Speaker 1>just stick them in your mouth. But here's the thing.

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<v Speaker 1>If you do that, and certainly we have some of

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<v Speaker 1>these tales of some of these mythical origins of tea

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<v Speaker 1>saying that's what happened. People stuck it in their mouth,

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<v Speaker 1>and and you know that might well be connected to

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<v Speaker 1>some of the original ways that that human beings explore

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<v Speaker 1>the natures of the tea plant leaves and even gain

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<v Speaker 1>some of the effects. But if you just stick them

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<v Speaker 1>in your mouth and start chewing, it's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>really bitter. So this is at this point we have

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<v Speaker 1>the first step of withering. So the freat green leaves

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<v Speaker 1>and buds are dried out, either in a heated room

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<v Speaker 1>of some sort or they're left in the sun, and

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<v Speaker 1>this causes the starch and the leaves to begin transforming

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<v Speaker 1>into sugar and the moisture content drops by, and this

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<v Speaker 1>allows the next possible step to take place, which is

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<v Speaker 1>the rolling of the tea leaves and then be able

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<v Speaker 1>to roll it without breaking the leaves. Um. This is

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<v Speaker 1>something you might have to think back to your childhood

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<v Speaker 1>days of like playing with leaves and sticks. But sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>if a leaf is fresh and you go to like

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<v Speaker 1>roll it up, it's going to it's gonna break, m

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<v Speaker 1>all right. The rolling hard here is often done via

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<v Speaker 1>machines today but is historically done by hand, and the

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<v Speaker 1>rolling without breaking here twists and crushes the leaves in

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<v Speaker 1>a way that releases sap, exposes it to oxygen, and

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<v Speaker 1>stimulates fermentation. Additional rolling and or sifting may take place

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<v Speaker 1>here as well, so that's step two. Now. One reason

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<v Speaker 1>you might be roll ling or or sort of bruising

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<v Speaker 1>these leaves in some way and essentially handling them roughly

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<v Speaker 1>is in order to stimulate oxidation. Oxidation in general refers

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<v Speaker 1>to a broad class of chemical reactions that take place

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<v Speaker 1>when molecules are exposed to oxygen or another oxidizing agent.

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<v Speaker 1>And a core feature of an oxidation reaction is that

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<v Speaker 1>the molecules that are getting oxidized are losing electrons, but

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<v Speaker 1>that doesn't tell us much. It's usually it's some type

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<v Speaker 1>of chemical reaction. Now, it's interesting that the deliberate oxidation

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<v Speaker 1>of tea leaves is an important stage, and they're processing

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<v Speaker 1>especially for producing darker tease, not less so for greener teas,

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<v Speaker 1>because most often oxidation in foods is not something you want.

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<v Speaker 1>It's an undesirable outcome associated with spoilage and rancidity. So

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<v Speaker 1>some examples, and I guess these would be the closest

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<v Speaker 1>analogies their oxidation reactions of various types, Like there's oxidation

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<v Speaker 1>of of ats and so forth in in oils. But

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<v Speaker 1>for an analogy in plants. Think about when you cut

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<v Speaker 1>an apple. So you cut an apple in half and

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<v Speaker 1>you leave it out on the counter, what happens brown right, Uh?

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<v Speaker 1>And this browning is not generally considered good. It's not

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<v Speaker 1>something that makes the apple harmful to eat, but most

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<v Speaker 1>of the time people don't find it very appetizing. It

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<v Speaker 1>changes the appearance and sometimes the flavor and texture as well.

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<v Speaker 1>And uh, you know, taste can vary, but most people

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<v Speaker 1>would not say that is a type of browning that

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<v Speaker 1>they seek out on purpose. And this is actually true

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<v Speaker 1>of many foods, especially fruits. So you can think of

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<v Speaker 1>the way avocados brown wants they're cut or smashed and

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<v Speaker 1>left out on the counter, or or potatoes or any

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<v Speaker 1>number of other plant based foods. The chemical reaction taking

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<v Speaker 1>place here is a form of oxidation called in sematic browning,

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<v Speaker 1>and in sematic browning is due to an enzyme called

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<v Speaker 1>polyphenol oxidase. Fruits and vegetables have compounds in them called

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<v Speaker 1>phenol compounds, and when these compounds get exposed to both

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<v Speaker 1>oxygen and to that enzyme to polyphenol oxidase at the

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<v Speaker 1>same time, they react with the oxygen and go through

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<v Speaker 1>a multi step transformation process that ends with them turning

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<v Speaker 1>into melanin. Melanin is a natural brown pigment that you

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<v Speaker 1>can find in all forms of life. It's in plants,

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<v Speaker 1>it's in fungi, it's in animals including us. It's the

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<v Speaker 1>brown pigment in human hair and skin and inner irises.

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<v Speaker 1>And so that process naturally takes place once once you

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<v Speaker 1>cut an apple or a banana or any any of

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<v Speaker 1>these foods. But how come this chemical reaction turning phenolic

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<v Speaker 1>compounds into melanin doesn't happen once they when the apple

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<v Speaker 1>is just like sitting there on the counter uncut. How

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<v Speaker 1>come it only happens once you cut it. This is

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<v Speaker 1>because in order for the reaction to happen, we need

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<v Speaker 1>three different substances to come into contact with one another.

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<v Speaker 1>So you need the phenolic compounds the base molecules were transforming.

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<v Speaker 1>You need the enzyme, which in this case is polyphenol oxidase,

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<v Speaker 1>and you need the free oxygen in the air. And

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<v Speaker 1>when all three elements are present there together, then you

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<v Speaker 1>get this browning process. So in plant tissue, the enzyme,

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<v Speaker 1>the polyphenol oxidase, and the phenolic compounds are usually kept

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<v Speaker 1>separate from one another. But damage to the plant, such

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<v Speaker 1>as cutting it open or bashing it and bruising it

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<v Speaker 1>will rupture cells and cause these chemicals to blend together

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<v Speaker 1>in unite, and then you expose them to air and

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<v Speaker 1>the oxidation happens. Now, coming back to what I said earlier,

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<v Speaker 1>in somatic browning is considered undesirable in lots of foods

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<v Speaker 1>like uh, you know you do you, But most people

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<v Speaker 1>would rather eat their apple slices, bananas, avocados, and so

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<v Speaker 1>forth before they sit out on the counter for a

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<v Speaker 1>few hours and turn brown. The browned versions of these

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<v Speaker 1>plants kind of look and taste degraded, not exactly fresh.

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<v Speaker 1>But in other plants, the brown unning process has a

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<v Speaker 1>desirable outcome. It is used on purpose to achieve desirable

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<v Speaker 1>improvements in appearance, texture, and flavor. One example would be

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<v Speaker 1>in certain dried fruits like raisins go through enzymatic browning

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<v Speaker 1>it deliberately in order to create new and interesting flavors

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<v Speaker 1>that people like. And another example might be in seeds

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<v Speaker 1>or leaves used to bruce strongly flavored caffeinated beverages. Oxidative

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<v Speaker 1>browning is specifically sought out as part of the preparation

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<v Speaker 1>process for tea leaves. So you can think about the

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<v Speaker 1>process of say, rolling tea leaves around, like smashing them

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<v Speaker 1>or rolling them in a in a tumbler of some

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<v Speaker 1>kind in order to kind of like bruise and uh,

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<v Speaker 1>and just rough up the leaves to get these get

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<v Speaker 1>these different compounds coming together and expose them to oxygen

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<v Speaker 1>to to trigger this browning process. Yeah. I like to

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<v Speaker 1>come back to the apple example, the apple that that's spilled,

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<v Speaker 1>it falls out of the bowl and falls off the

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<v Speaker 1>owner and rolls across the floor. Uh. You know that's

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<v Speaker 1>the one that gets all bruised up, and those bruises

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<v Speaker 1>are brown. That's the oxidation taking place. Yeah, exactly. And

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<v Speaker 1>again you know you don't usually want that in an apple,

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<v Speaker 1>but it turns out you do it to a tea leaf,

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<v Speaker 1>and oh it's producing all these nice, interesting new aromas

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<v Speaker 1>and flavors. It's making the tea taste. I think a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of tea producers would say it makes it. It

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<v Speaker 1>sort of takes away some of the fresh, grassy flavor

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<v Speaker 1>of green tea and introduces these complex sweet flavors that

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<v Speaker 1>taste more like a floral aromas or like fruits. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it creates this this whole additional dimension of flavor. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>this this stage of oxidation here, Martin stresses that it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's super important for determining the flavor destination of the tea.

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<v Speaker 1>It typically takes about three hours. Uh. If it is done,

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<v Speaker 1>the leaves are left on trays and a cool, damp

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<v Speaker 1>place often and the oxidation causes them to turn from

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<v Speaker 1>green to kind of a copper color. Uh. They also

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<v Speaker 1>heat up during this phase. And you also and you

0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.720
<v Speaker 1>have to depending on exactly what you're doing with the

0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:04.880
<v Speaker 1>tea leaves, you may have to halt it as well,

0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:07.240
<v Speaker 1>because you don't want the oxidation to go too far,

0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.559
<v Speaker 1>because then you'll end up with what's described as kind

0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.960
<v Speaker 1>of a burnt taste. It's also really important to note

0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.480
<v Speaker 1>here that not all teas go through this phase. Um,

0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.679
<v Speaker 1>and this should seem pretty obvious that black tea does

0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.840
<v Speaker 1>go through the oxidation phase and is therefore fully oxidized. Uh.

0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:28.120
<v Speaker 1>Yet that is why it is this black or red color. Yeah.

0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:30.280
<v Speaker 1>And to and to pick up on and clarify something

0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:32.959
<v Speaker 1>you said a minute ago. Heating, I think is usually

0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:36.520
<v Speaker 1>specifically used to stop the oxidation process. So if you

0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.720
<v Speaker 1>want a green tea that has a nice fresh, sort

0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:43.880
<v Speaker 1>of grassy vegetable flavor and keeps its green color, those

0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.520
<v Speaker 1>are usually going to be heated earlier to stop the

0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:50.440
<v Speaker 1>oxidation from progressing any further, whereas a black tea you

0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.719
<v Speaker 1>would let go through way more oxidation before heating it

0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.599
<v Speaker 1>in uh, in a little oven. Now, just this is

0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:58.559
<v Speaker 1>a cultivation note, but I ended up throwing it in

0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:00.080
<v Speaker 1>my notes here, so I'm gonna read it before I

0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:04.840
<v Speaker 1>forget about it. Um. Originally tea trees were, of course wild,

0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:06.840
<v Speaker 1>and they would grow in the wild, and they grew

0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:10.400
<v Speaker 1>quite tall. Uh. The higher leaves were obtained by simply

0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.360
<v Speaker 1>cutting down the tree. Uh. This wouldn't work long term,

0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:16.960
<v Speaker 1>of course, and so with cultivation comes the pruning and

0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:20.200
<v Speaker 1>the non lethal harvesting of the leaves. So I just

0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:22.760
<v Speaker 1>found that interesting. Okay, So that's why you get this

0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.120
<v Speaker 1>process of like taking the flushes off of the top

0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:28.680
<v Speaker 1>instead of fully culling the plant. Yeah, but back to

0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.480
<v Speaker 1>the process. Okay, so we've had we we've had the

0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:36.560
<v Speaker 1>first step here of withering, than rolling, than oxidation, and

0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.320
<v Speaker 1>then we get into the step of drying. This is

0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:42.360
<v Speaker 1>a quick drying to stop the oxidation of desired levels,

0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:44.640
<v Speaker 1>So we've kind of alluded to this already as well

0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:48.480
<v Speaker 1>as to remove enough moisture to prevent mold from forming.

0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:50.680
<v Speaker 1>But you also can't dry it out too much or

0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:52.920
<v Speaker 1>the tea could again taste burnt or on the other

0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.280
<v Speaker 1>end of the spectrum, you could lose its flavor, all right,

0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:57.560
<v Speaker 1>And then with the fourth step done, we're under the fifth,

0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:01.720
<v Speaker 1>and this is grating and sorting. Basically, what you're left with.

0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.040
<v Speaker 1>You've got to figure out what you've got, and generally

0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:06.160
<v Speaker 1>what you have is you have whole leaves, you have

0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:09.200
<v Speaker 1>broken leaves, you have you have the dinnings, and you

0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.600
<v Speaker 1>have dust. Whole is the best, that's the highest quality

0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.400
<v Speaker 1>while um and then then the broken leaves, and then

0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:18.600
<v Speaker 1>fannings and dust that tends to go into cheaper things

0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:21.640
<v Speaker 1>like you know, tea bags and so forth. Again, not

0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:25.000
<v Speaker 1>all teas go through all of these phases. Black tea

0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:29.680
<v Speaker 1>goes through all five. Oolong tea is partially oxidized. Green

0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:32.800
<v Speaker 1>teas are dried after rolling to prevent oxidation at all.

0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.960
<v Speaker 1>White tea doesn't go through withering, fermentation or rolling. Now,

0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.880
<v Speaker 1>this doesn't cover anywhere near all the teas out there

0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:41.520
<v Speaker 1>in the different types of tease. There are plenty of

0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:44.960
<v Speaker 1>sub varieties of each, and then there are blends as well,

0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.880
<v Speaker 1>Like one common example is English Breakfast Tea, which is

0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:59.480
<v Speaker 1>a blend of black teas. Thank thank Now there's a

0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:03.440
<v Speaker 1>whole other class of complex chemical reactions that tease undergo,

0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:07.240
<v Speaker 1>separate from the baseline oxidation process we've been talking about,

0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:10.560
<v Speaker 1>which is fermentation, a whole other thing where you are

0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:16.800
<v Speaker 1>deliberately introducing microbial growth to further create complex flavors and aromas.

0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:18.800
<v Speaker 1>That's right, And at this point, I want to mention

0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:23.120
<v Speaker 1>the puerities. Um, these are a special case. These are

0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.920
<v Speaker 1>again one of my favorite tea varieties. And actually our

0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.760
<v Speaker 1>producer j J I was chatting with him he also

0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.240
<v Speaker 1>really likes these. Uh, and I imagine we have a

0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.000
<v Speaker 1>number of listeners who are fond of these as well.

0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:36.880
<v Speaker 1>But these are fermented teas, right, yeah, it's um. So

0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:40.400
<v Speaker 1>these teas are generally made from larger, older leaves that

0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.800
<v Speaker 1>I believe Martin described as almost being kind of like hairy,

0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:48.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, they're they're they're they're really big old leaves. Um.

0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:52.320
<v Speaker 1>And also there's an enough moisture is allowed to remain

0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:56.320
<v Speaker 1>in them so that they can continue to ferment for years. Uh.

0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.120
<v Speaker 1>This is this is the only variety of tea that

0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.680
<v Speaker 1>improves with age. Uh. The tea stored away in bricks

0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.800
<v Speaker 1>or cakes. Also, they're often various wrappings, like sometimes it's

0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:09.439
<v Speaker 1>like a like a bamboo type in situation, or some

0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:13.239
<v Speaker 1>sort of fabric wrapping, and and ends up with just

0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.760
<v Speaker 1>a wide beret of flavors that are, at least in

0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:20.400
<v Speaker 1>my experience, unlike any other tease I've tried. Uh, they

0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.520
<v Speaker 1>often have the ones I've I've keep coming back to

0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.840
<v Speaker 1>have kind of often kind of like a barnyard flavor,

0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.760
<v Speaker 1>kind of straw or hay to them. Um. One of

0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:32.600
<v Speaker 1>them that I really love is just especially dark. It's

0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.960
<v Speaker 1>like it's like a bowl or a cup of midnight.

0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:39.080
<v Speaker 1>And like I said, they're often you'll often you'll find

0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:40.879
<v Speaker 1>these in kind of like a loose leaf situation, but

0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:43.160
<v Speaker 1>you also find them in a little pucks, little bricks,

0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:45.240
<v Speaker 1>big cakes that you have to chip away with a

0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.840
<v Speaker 1>special little ornate knife. I mean you could use a

0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:51.160
<v Speaker 1>normal butter knife or your car keys, I guess, but

0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:56.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, get into it. This is tea we're talking about. UM.

0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:59.720
<v Speaker 1>But these have a fascinating history, not only is just

0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:03.040
<v Speaker 1>being tea bricks, but being used as money as well,

0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.760
<v Speaker 1>with the prime example being uh taking place in Tibet.

0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:11.240
<v Speaker 1>As Wolfgang Birch points out in the use of tea

0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:14.359
<v Speaker 1>bricks as currency among the Tibetans in the Tibet Journal,

0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:18.399
<v Speaker 1>the Chinese introduced tea to Tibet sometime prior to seven

0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:22.399
<v Speaker 1>eight c E. And while it was first used as

0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:25.320
<v Speaker 1>more of a pure bartering commodity, uh, you know, I'll

0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:27.680
<v Speaker 1>trade you a brick of tea for this, that or

0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.399
<v Speaker 1>the other, it eventually took on a form that we

0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:34.800
<v Speaker 1>might reasonably refer to as currency, a regimented system of

0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:38.480
<v Speaker 1>tea bricks based on the tease quality and pureness, and

0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:42.800
<v Speaker 1>eventually imprinted with trademarks and seals. So you might think

0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:44.199
<v Speaker 1>of it almost like you know, you think of like

0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:49.320
<v Speaker 1>a bar of gold that has been imprinted with governmental information,

0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:51.919
<v Speaker 1>like here's the seal of the of the governing body

0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:55.480
<v Speaker 1>saying like this is an approved grade of gold, the

0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.680
<v Speaker 1>amount of gold, etcetera. It's the exact same thing with

0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:02.119
<v Speaker 1>these tea bricks. Uh. The the governing authority has said

0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.160
<v Speaker 1>this is such and such tea of such and such quality,

0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:08.080
<v Speaker 1>and it is a certain amount of it. Uh, it's

0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:11.199
<v Speaker 1>usable as currency in this scenario. That's interesting and it

0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:13.680
<v Speaker 1>makes me think, I don't know this, but I'm wondering.

0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.160
<v Speaker 1>So in this case, would this have been a fermented

0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:19.280
<v Speaker 1>type of tea since its int form? That makes me

0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:21.880
<v Speaker 1>think about how, you know, if you're going to try

0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:26.159
<v Speaker 1>to use a commonly consumed save food or drink item

0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:29.640
<v Speaker 1>as a currency, it would be difficult to use one

0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:33.280
<v Speaker 1>that quickly degrades in quality for like its use value.

0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:36.800
<v Speaker 1>So if it's something where freshness really matters, you would

0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:39.800
<v Speaker 1>not want the use value of your currency to degrade

0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.360
<v Speaker 1>fast over the course of a few months. But if

0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:44.760
<v Speaker 1>it's like a fermented tea, you mentioned that these get

0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.560
<v Speaker 1>better with age rather than rather than declining, so you

0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.159
<v Speaker 1>can at least hope your currency there keeps its value.

0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:54.080
<v Speaker 1>Is it Does that make sense? Yeah? Yeah, it would

0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:56.560
<v Speaker 1>keep its value. Of anything, it would increase in value,

0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:59.680
<v Speaker 1>though I don't remember reading anything about how that would

0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:02.880
<v Speaker 1>be decided upon, like but but I guess it would

0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:06.919
<v Speaker 1>be subject to to like the going rate for tease

0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:11.600
<v Speaker 1>of the particular harvest and um and maturity level, you know,

0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:13.840
<v Speaker 1>like you all the information would be there on the seal.

0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:17.200
<v Speaker 1>This is a side note. I wonder how economies are

0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:22.080
<v Speaker 1>different when they have a currency that does have in

0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:24.919
<v Speaker 1>in some cases a use value of its own, like

0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:27.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, if you're not going to use it for trade,

0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:28.920
<v Speaker 1>you would use it for something else, like you would

0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:32.520
<v Speaker 1>literally eat it or drink it, versus economies that just

0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:35.520
<v Speaker 1>have a currency that is purely useless on its own,

0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:39.280
<v Speaker 1>it's only for facilitating trade, like like U S dollars. Yeah,

0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:42.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean for gold, I guess is not quite an

0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:46.240
<v Speaker 1>example of that, because even historically gold was still desired

0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:50.639
<v Speaker 1>as something that could be used for ornamentation, whereas today

0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:55.600
<v Speaker 1>it also has um technolog electronics uses as well. Um.

0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:57.560
<v Speaker 1>I think the other really good example of this is

0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:01.520
<v Speaker 1>the the the the use of chocolate in some um

0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:06.639
<v Speaker 1>Mesoamerican cultures, where the chocolate was such a highly regarded

0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:09.480
<v Speaker 1>commodity and and one that I guess had kind of

0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:14.000
<v Speaker 1>generalized sizes and measurements that it could be used as

0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:17.040
<v Speaker 1>currency as well. Yeah. Interesting question. Maybe we'll come back

0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:19.760
<v Speaker 1>to that one day. Yeah, so at this point that

0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:22.280
<v Speaker 1>we might get more into the timeline of tea with

0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:25.240
<v Speaker 1>the primary interest in sort of the evolution of the

0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:29.880
<v Speaker 1>way that it is prepared and and ultimately consumed. As

0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:31.920
<v Speaker 1>we explored in the last episode, the origin of tea

0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:34.919
<v Speaker 1>drinking is more mythology than historical fact. It's one of

0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:37.159
<v Speaker 1>those things where if you if you try and answer

0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:40.600
<v Speaker 1>the question of like, well, who invented te who came

0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:44.520
<v Speaker 1>up with this? Uh, it's basically lost to two prehistory.

0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:47.480
<v Speaker 1>These are things where we have some interesting myths that

0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:50.880
<v Speaker 1>kind of sum up some of the general ideas and

0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:53.359
<v Speaker 1>and ultimately some of the general realities of how human

0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:58.840
<v Speaker 1>beings experimented with and chronicled the nature of their botanical world.

0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:02.480
<v Speaker 1>But in general we can't answer there. There's no one

0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:06.160
<v Speaker 1>person um though again, some of some of these accounts

0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:08.720
<v Speaker 1>do have a sort of an interesting shred of truth

0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:11.080
<v Speaker 1>to them, like one of the ones that, in addition

0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:13.360
<v Speaker 1>to the ones we discussed in the last episode, there's

0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:15.720
<v Speaker 1>one that Michael d. Co brings up in seventy grade

0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:19.040
<v Speaker 1>Inventions of the Ancient World, Uh, in a chapter about

0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:22.720
<v Speaker 1>I Believe chocolate and tea. UH. There's another myth where

0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:25.719
<v Speaker 1>a past Chinese emperor was boiling some water and some

0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:28.960
<v Speaker 1>wild leaves just kind of blew into his water boiling

0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:32.919
<v Speaker 1>in the pot. Thus creating tea that of course sounds

0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:35.879
<v Speaker 1>like pure myth and is not like a real story,

0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:38.800
<v Speaker 1>But it reminds me of our episode and the invention

0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:41.760
<v Speaker 1>of the cauldron, and about how like a cauldron or

0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:45.320
<v Speaker 1>any kind of container, even like a skin of boiling water,

0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:50.520
<v Speaker 1>like what an essential laboratory that is for humans in

0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:53.439
<v Speaker 1>in ancient times, figuring out what things are and what

0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:56.439
<v Speaker 1>they can be used for. Now, the question that may

0:22:56.480 --> 0:22:57.960
<v Speaker 1>come up for some of you might think, well, there's

0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:00.560
<v Speaker 1>a great deal of Chinese literature out there going back

0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:03.280
<v Speaker 1>quite a ways. Can't we just see when people first

0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:06.119
<v Speaker 1>started writing about t uh And I think this is

0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:09.600
<v Speaker 1>a reasonable question to ask. But as Martin explains in

0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:11.280
<v Speaker 1>the book, it's it's not quite that simple. And part

0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:15.800
<v Speaker 1>of the problem is that the Chinese character um associated

0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:20.959
<v Speaker 1>with t was previously used again in literature in writing

0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:24.520
<v Speaker 1>to refer to other shrubs and plants. For example, there

0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:28.040
<v Speaker 1>are mentions of of t dating back to the fifth

0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:30.560
<v Speaker 1>century b C. But it's thought that the character in

0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:33.960
<v Speaker 1>question here is just referring to south thistle, a plant

0:23:34.040 --> 0:23:37.119
<v Speaker 1>sometimes used in Chinese cuisine and native to Europe and

0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:43.520
<v Speaker 1>Western Asia. Okay, so that's frustrating trying to understand the history. Yeah, yeah,

0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:47.280
<v Speaker 1>so we we have to think about the fact that

0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:50.280
<v Speaker 1>anytime something like this comes along, like it's not just oh, well,

0:23:50.359 --> 0:23:52.000
<v Speaker 1>we have this new thing, let's get a new word

0:23:52.080 --> 0:23:55.320
<v Speaker 1>for it that's in any language. That's not necessarily how

0:23:55.359 --> 0:23:59.439
<v Speaker 1>it works. I'm reminded of all the different apples that

0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:02.880
<v Speaker 1>that Europeans began to discover in the world and from

0:24:02.920 --> 0:24:07.040
<v Speaker 1>port back, yeah, palm to tear m hm. So again,

0:24:07.040 --> 0:24:10.359
<v Speaker 1>we can't pinpoint a time when tea drinking began in China,

0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:13.480
<v Speaker 1>but we can likely say it was certainly a thing

0:24:13.520 --> 0:24:18.800
<v Speaker 1>by the Hun dynasty two oh six BC through UH.

0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:21.479
<v Speaker 1>I'm granted that's a large period of time, but by

0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:25.520
<v Speaker 1>by that period people were drinking tea. It most likely

0:24:25.560 --> 0:24:30.200
<v Speaker 1>began in Sichuan Province in southwestern China and spread gradually

0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:32.280
<v Speaker 1>to the rest of China and would have reached northern

0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:35.679
<v Speaker 1>China by the Tang dynasty UH that period six eighteen

0:24:35.680 --> 0:24:39.399
<v Speaker 1>through nine seven. By the third century, though, according to Martin,

0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:42.720
<v Speaker 1>we we do have mentioned in the literature of tea

0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:46.360
<v Speaker 1>that we can more firmly connect actual tea drinking, which

0:24:46.400 --> 0:24:49.879
<v Speaker 1>points out that Hatwo and noted physician who may have

0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:53.040
<v Speaker 1>also developed one of the earliest forms of anesthesia. Also

0:24:53.080 --> 0:24:56.680
<v Speaker 1>wrote about tea quote, to drink tea constantly makes one

0:24:56.800 --> 0:25:01.000
<v Speaker 1>think better. That checks out. M Well, it depends on

0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:05.640
<v Speaker 1>what you mean by constantly. Yeah, I'm not sure about

0:25:05.640 --> 0:25:08.760
<v Speaker 1>the particulars of the translation. There. By the way, the

0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:11.800
<v Speaker 1>the anesthesia that he supposedly invented, I think they was

0:25:11.840 --> 0:25:15.719
<v Speaker 1>reading that the name literally transplates to cannabis boiling powder,

0:25:16.200 --> 0:25:21.600
<v Speaker 1>but we still don't know exactly what this supposed anesthesia contained. Also,

0:25:21.680 --> 0:25:25.120
<v Speaker 1>a general from the third century lu Kun wrote that

0:25:25.160 --> 0:25:28.720
<v Speaker 1>he felt old, depressed and needed some real tea. And

0:25:28.920 --> 0:25:32.240
<v Speaker 1>just the impression here that he's out out doing the

0:25:32.240 --> 0:25:35.159
<v Speaker 1>military thing and he just realizes, Man, I'm I'm just

0:25:35.440 --> 0:25:38.119
<v Speaker 1>I'm old, I'm sad, and I would just kill for

0:25:38.200 --> 0:25:40.440
<v Speaker 1>an actual cup of tea instead of I guess boiling

0:25:41.040 --> 0:25:44.479
<v Speaker 1>various other things that we're finding in the nature around us,

0:25:46.240 --> 0:25:48.520
<v Speaker 1>So you could have you could have fake teas. There's like,

0:25:48.560 --> 0:25:52.040
<v Speaker 1>if you can't get real tea from Camillius and instus,

0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:55.600
<v Speaker 1>you might just try boiling other plant matter. Yeah, I mean,

0:25:55.640 --> 0:25:58.320
<v Speaker 1>the history of of tea is kind of full of

0:25:58.359 --> 0:26:00.720
<v Speaker 1>these examples. Uh, and not not only the history of tea,

0:26:00.760 --> 0:26:04.040
<v Speaker 1>but I guess the the history of of like pharmacology

0:26:04.040 --> 0:26:06.440
<v Speaker 1>and no pharmacology in general. I think we've touched a

0:26:06.440 --> 0:26:09.960
<v Speaker 1>little bit on this before talking about psychedelics, where you'll

0:26:10.000 --> 0:26:15.439
<v Speaker 1>have some historians think you'll have one particular custom of

0:26:15.720 --> 0:26:20.240
<v Speaker 1>using a particular um herb or plant that is growing

0:26:20.280 --> 0:26:22.760
<v Speaker 1>in the natural environment. But what happens when people move?

0:26:22.920 --> 0:26:25.880
<v Speaker 1>What happens when there is a migration. Yes, in many

0:26:25.880 --> 0:26:29.119
<v Speaker 1>cases you can bring your plants with you. Uh, sometimes

0:26:29.280 --> 0:26:32.760
<v Speaker 1>those plants don't survive though, Sometimes they can't be brought anyway,

0:26:32.840 --> 0:26:34.360
<v Speaker 1>or you just so that the people that bring them

0:26:34.359 --> 0:26:37.080
<v Speaker 1>are not able to keep those plants going in these

0:26:37.119 --> 0:26:39.720
<v Speaker 1>new places they moved to. And in those cases you

0:26:39.800 --> 0:26:42.840
<v Speaker 1>might try to find some sort of reasonable fac similar

0:26:42.960 --> 0:26:47.080
<v Speaker 1>like what's something else that does something that changes me

0:26:47.160 --> 0:26:49.240
<v Speaker 1>a little bit when I boil it in water and drinking.

0:26:50.200 --> 0:26:51.800
<v Speaker 1>So we may come back to some of that in

0:26:51.880 --> 0:26:54.800
<v Speaker 1>a bit. And then Martin also points it by let's say,

0:26:54.800 --> 0:26:58.000
<v Speaker 1>around three fifty c E there's a more detailed description

0:26:58.040 --> 0:27:01.000
<v Speaker 1>of the tea plant that we seem pretty sure is

0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:04.160
<v Speaker 1>an actual description of off tea, and this is provided

0:27:04.200 --> 0:27:17.600
<v Speaker 1>by Gopu. Again around three fifty s. Thank thank Now,

0:27:17.680 --> 0:27:21.080
<v Speaker 1>I guess one thing I wonder is, um, it's one

0:27:21.160 --> 0:27:24.119
<v Speaker 1>thing to talk about, Okay, we're taking leaves of this

0:27:24.280 --> 0:27:28.359
<v Speaker 1>specific plant and and boiling them to make tea, But

0:27:28.440 --> 0:27:30.480
<v Speaker 1>it's another thing to think about, like all of the

0:27:30.560 --> 0:27:34.480
<v Speaker 1>complex preparation process steps and and the different varieties of

0:27:34.520 --> 0:27:37.040
<v Speaker 1>tea produced today. Do you have any idea when that

0:27:37.160 --> 0:27:39.280
<v Speaker 1>sort of thing started to come online, or at least

0:27:39.280 --> 0:27:41.679
<v Speaker 1>when we have the earliest evidence of that. Yeah, this

0:27:41.760 --> 0:27:44.160
<v Speaker 1>is this is interesting because one thing that that Martin

0:27:44.200 --> 0:27:48.399
<v Speaker 1>points out is that early on tea was probably not good.

0:27:49.400 --> 0:27:51.919
<v Speaker 1>It's not would have been nothing like what we're having today.

0:27:51.920 --> 0:27:53.879
<v Speaker 1>It would have been we can almost think of it

0:27:54.000 --> 0:27:57.159
<v Speaker 1>more as kind of this herbal soup, and you'd have

0:27:57.280 --> 0:28:00.479
<v Speaker 1>various things added to it in an attempt to improve

0:28:00.600 --> 0:28:03.280
<v Speaker 1>the flavor profile. And and you might be thinking, oh,

0:28:03.320 --> 0:28:07.520
<v Speaker 1>like delightful flowers and stuff. No things like onions might

0:28:07.560 --> 0:28:10.480
<v Speaker 1>be added. Is just a way to improve the flavor.

0:28:10.680 --> 0:28:13.840
<v Speaker 1>And I believe in Martin, I believe mentioned that this

0:28:13.920 --> 0:28:16.320
<v Speaker 1>probably also didn't work. It was just so strong a

0:28:16.359 --> 0:28:18.960
<v Speaker 1>flavor you couldn't really improve on it all that much.

0:28:19.320 --> 0:28:22.000
<v Speaker 1>But you drank it because, uh, you know it was

0:28:22.080 --> 0:28:25.760
<v Speaker 1>there were already something like helpful um associations with it,

0:28:25.880 --> 0:28:27.240
<v Speaker 1>and you know, and maybe it wasn't making it was

0:28:27.320 --> 0:28:31.000
<v Speaker 1>sick because it was boiled, et cetera. But during the

0:28:31.040 --> 0:28:35.600
<v Speaker 1>time of the Northern Way Dynasty three eighties six through CE,

0:28:35.760 --> 0:28:38.800
<v Speaker 1>apparently that the tea processing had improved, at least to

0:28:38.880 --> 0:28:41.240
<v Speaker 1>what we might think of as a basic level. There

0:28:41.240 --> 0:28:44.400
<v Speaker 1>mentions of cakes been made of tea leaves that have

0:28:44.440 --> 0:28:49.120
<v Speaker 1>been roasted. It was probably still a lot cruder compared

0:28:49.160 --> 0:28:51.560
<v Speaker 1>to things that we're gonna come or certainly cruder than

0:28:51.600 --> 0:28:55.080
<v Speaker 1>things that you would think of today as a desirable tease.

0:28:55.600 --> 0:28:58.880
<v Speaker 1>But the journey toward more complex flavors was under way,

0:28:59.080 --> 0:29:01.960
<v Speaker 1>and I'm assuming you were maybe not having to put

0:29:02.000 --> 0:29:07.680
<v Speaker 1>onions in your tea anymore now. During the fifth century,

0:29:07.760 --> 0:29:12.200
<v Speaker 1>see there's also examples of tea tributes being made to

0:29:12.280 --> 0:29:16.680
<v Speaker 1>the imperial court and to the emperor himself. Uh. And

0:29:16.800 --> 0:29:18.720
<v Speaker 1>also the emperor was said to have his own tea

0:29:18.760 --> 0:29:21.280
<v Speaker 1>reserves as well, like these were places where just the

0:29:21.320 --> 0:29:24.960
<v Speaker 1>emperor's tea was grown. So already uh, it was you know,

0:29:25.000 --> 0:29:29.720
<v Speaker 1>presumably flavors are improving, and also the ruling class, the

0:29:29.720 --> 0:29:33.320
<v Speaker 1>elites of society are really getting attached to the idea

0:29:33.320 --> 0:29:37.160
<v Speaker 1>of tea. But then the Tang dynasty six eighteen through

0:29:37.240 --> 0:29:39.120
<v Speaker 1>nine oh seven, this is the period in which we

0:29:39.240 --> 0:29:41.880
<v Speaker 1>see Chinese tea in the form of baked bricks of

0:29:41.960 --> 0:29:45.920
<v Speaker 1>green tea, which are ideal for travel, spreading to new

0:29:45.960 --> 0:29:49.200
<v Speaker 1>parts of the empire and beyond. Martin also writes that

0:29:49.240 --> 0:29:53.920
<v Speaker 1>this widespread technique also greatly improved the flavor um. The

0:29:53.920 --> 0:29:56.520
<v Speaker 1>popularity of tea spread so much during this time that

0:29:56.560 --> 0:29:59.240
<v Speaker 1>it was no longer just a drink of the elite

0:29:59.360 --> 0:30:01.760
<v Speaker 1>of the emperor and his court. It was a drink

0:30:01.840 --> 0:30:06.000
<v Speaker 1>for everybody, even peasants. By this point we're we're getting

0:30:06.000 --> 0:30:08.640
<v Speaker 1>in on tea culture. That doesn't mean everybody would have

0:30:08.880 --> 0:30:12.080
<v Speaker 1>access to the same tea, of course, you're the type

0:30:12.080 --> 0:30:16.120
<v Speaker 1>of tea you drank would would be intrinsically linked to

0:30:16.400 --> 0:30:20.360
<v Speaker 1>your place in society, as would the various paraphernalia that

0:30:20.400 --> 0:30:24.680
<v Speaker 1>were used in tea preparation and tea consumption. But uh,

0:30:24.760 --> 0:30:26.960
<v Speaker 1>it was. It was essentially something that could be found

0:30:26.960 --> 0:30:31.160
<v Speaker 1>throughout society. Um Also, this would again have been exclusively

0:30:31.200 --> 0:30:33.840
<v Speaker 1>green tea, as red black tea would not be developed

0:30:33.880 --> 0:30:37.440
<v Speaker 1>for centuries to come, and this is the time of

0:30:37.520 --> 0:30:40.680
<v Speaker 1>an individual by the name of Lou You. This would

0:30:40.680 --> 0:30:42.920
<v Speaker 1>have been in the eighth century. Uh He was known

0:30:42.960 --> 0:30:46.320
<v Speaker 1>as the Immortal of Tea, the Sage of Tea, and

0:30:46.360 --> 0:30:50.040
<v Speaker 1>he was author of the Classic of Tea, the Classic

0:30:50.080 --> 0:30:53.160
<v Speaker 1>of Tea. I see a similarity in the English naming

0:30:53.200 --> 0:30:56.280
<v Speaker 1>convention of some of these great old Chinese texts, similar

0:30:56.360 --> 0:30:59.680
<v Speaker 1>to like the Classic of Mountains and Seas. Exactly, yes,

0:31:00.240 --> 0:31:04.240
<v Speaker 1>I forget exactly what that is translated from, though, Like

0:31:04.760 --> 0:31:07.280
<v Speaker 1>what what are all the range of meanings in uh

0:31:07.360 --> 0:31:10.760
<v Speaker 1>In in the original? Yeah? Yeah, but it But but

0:31:10.840 --> 0:31:13.520
<v Speaker 1>certainly this is a common translation of some of these

0:31:13.520 --> 0:31:16.800
<v Speaker 1>important books, I would think you could. You might roughly

0:31:16.800 --> 0:31:19.120
<v Speaker 1>think of it the same way that that important books

0:31:19.160 --> 0:31:21.680
<v Speaker 1>might in the Western traditions might be preferred to as

0:31:21.720 --> 0:31:24.480
<v Speaker 1>like the book of such and such or a chronicle

0:31:24.560 --> 0:31:27.280
<v Speaker 1>of such and such. Now this is a This is

0:31:27.320 --> 0:31:29.240
<v Speaker 1>an interesting figure Lou You, though, because there are a

0:31:29.320 --> 0:31:32.480
<v Speaker 1>number of legends about him as well. You know, he's

0:31:32.520 --> 0:31:35.960
<v Speaker 1>definitely a historic individual and author. It seems that folks

0:31:35.960 --> 0:31:39.720
<v Speaker 1>agree on that. But they are all these additional stories, um,

0:31:39.880 --> 0:31:43.680
<v Speaker 1>such as that he was abandoned and subsequently adopted by

0:31:43.720 --> 0:31:47.240
<v Speaker 1>Buddhist monks. Also, there's this other story that he um.

0:31:47.760 --> 0:31:49.760
<v Speaker 1>I think these all kind of work together, or at

0:31:49.800 --> 0:31:53.040
<v Speaker 1>least were eventually stitched together into one narrative that he

0:31:53.120 --> 0:31:55.160
<v Speaker 1>was then trained. He then trained to be a clown

0:31:55.200 --> 0:31:58.560
<v Speaker 1>in the opera, and this was his lifelong ambition, but

0:31:58.680 --> 0:32:02.640
<v Speaker 1>then he ended up coming a scholar instead. Uh. He

0:32:02.720 --> 0:32:05.200
<v Speaker 1>started spending a lot of time in tea houses, which

0:32:05.280 --> 0:32:08.000
<v Speaker 1>was a popular hangout at the time, And this reminds

0:32:08.040 --> 0:32:10.200
<v Speaker 1>me a bit of of accounts of tea and coffee

0:32:10.240 --> 0:32:12.320
<v Speaker 1>houses in later European history as a kind of like

0:32:12.400 --> 0:32:18.520
<v Speaker 1>cultural incubator in a place where like the poet resides. Yeah. Yeah,

0:32:18.600 --> 0:32:22.800
<v Speaker 1>And so he has this this supposed trajectory that's pretty interesting,

0:32:22.840 --> 0:32:25.920
<v Speaker 1>Like he starts off as um as an abandoned child,

0:32:25.920 --> 0:32:29.520
<v Speaker 1>becomes a monk, then becomes a clown, then becomes a scholar,

0:32:29.720 --> 0:32:33.840
<v Speaker 1>and then essentially becomes the immortal of tea. It implies

0:32:33.920 --> 0:32:37.880
<v Speaker 1>tea being kind of like the highest level achievable. Yeah,

0:32:37.920 --> 0:32:40.000
<v Speaker 1>it does, and I think that matches up with the

0:32:40.040 --> 0:32:43.560
<v Speaker 1>way that he was received and regarded. But but it

0:32:43.600 --> 0:32:45.560
<v Speaker 1>goes beyond like you might think, Okay, he wrote this

0:32:45.600 --> 0:32:49.240
<v Speaker 1>scholarly work about tea, and I bet the scholarly class

0:32:49.320 --> 0:32:52.440
<v Speaker 1>really loved it. But as Martin points out, this work

0:32:52.480 --> 0:32:55.400
<v Speaker 1>had a huge impact on tea in society as it

0:32:55.440 --> 0:33:00.160
<v Speaker 1>gave agriculturalists and farmers the first real written account of

0:33:00.200 --> 0:33:04.080
<v Speaker 1>how to cultivate and process tea. Everything before the Classic

0:33:04.120 --> 0:33:07.160
<v Speaker 1>of tea was just orally transmitted or was, you know,

0:33:07.240 --> 0:33:11.080
<v Speaker 1>unknown to individuals who might want to partake of it

0:33:11.160 --> 0:33:14.680
<v Speaker 1>and uh and cultivate their own tea. His work made

0:33:14.680 --> 0:33:19.360
<v Speaker 1>tea cultivation accessible, and it included everything that was known

0:33:19.400 --> 0:33:22.440
<v Speaker 1>at the time about tea, where you could grow it,

0:33:22.520 --> 0:33:25.040
<v Speaker 1>how to grow it, how to harvest it and prepare it,

0:33:25.400 --> 0:33:29.480
<v Speaker 1>the culture of drinking it, the twenty four implements required

0:33:29.520 --> 0:33:32.640
<v Speaker 1>to prepare tea in the home, that sort of thing. Whoa,

0:33:32.880 --> 0:33:36.120
<v Speaker 1>that's a lot of implements, yeah, and and a lot

0:33:36.160 --> 0:33:39.760
<v Speaker 1>of just sort of advice on what is proper like.

0:33:39.840 --> 0:33:42.120
<v Speaker 1>For instance, I was reading in Martin that he he

0:33:42.160 --> 0:33:44.840
<v Speaker 1>was a big fan of using blue glazed cups to

0:33:45.040 --> 0:33:48.760
<v Speaker 1>enhance the green color of the tea, while he thought

0:33:48.760 --> 0:33:52.800
<v Speaker 1>that white cups or bowls would give it a distasteful

0:33:52.920 --> 0:33:57.000
<v Speaker 1>pink color. M hmm. This is interesting in part because

0:33:57.000 --> 0:34:01.640
<v Speaker 1>it reminds me of uh like the passages in Plenty

0:34:01.640 --> 0:34:03.520
<v Speaker 1>of the Elder where he's like, Hey, if you're gonna

0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:05.800
<v Speaker 1>boil like some sweet sappa to drink, you better do

0:34:05.800 --> 0:34:07.680
<v Speaker 1>it in a lead pot instead of a copper one,

0:34:07.720 --> 0:34:10.600
<v Speaker 1>because the copper makes it bitter, the lead makes it sweet.

0:34:10.840 --> 0:34:13.800
<v Speaker 1>I know, I assume he's not talking about actual changes

0:34:13.840 --> 0:34:16.960
<v Speaker 1>in uh flavor here, but truly just appearance. But this

0:34:17.400 --> 0:34:20.120
<v Speaker 1>is also quite observant because uh, I think as like

0:34:20.440 --> 0:34:23.640
<v Speaker 1>chefs and people who work in restaurants will tell you

0:34:24.120 --> 0:34:27.640
<v Speaker 1>the appearance and color of your your plates really does

0:34:27.680 --> 0:34:31.080
<v Speaker 1>affect how people perceive the food. Oh yeah, absolutely. And

0:34:31.160 --> 0:34:34.120
<v Speaker 1>then of course there's so much ritual on on top

0:34:34.160 --> 0:34:37.480
<v Speaker 1>of all of this. Uh you know. Martin stresses that

0:34:37.560 --> 0:34:39.359
<v Speaker 1>while some of this might seem just you know, over

0:34:39.360 --> 0:34:42.040
<v Speaker 1>the top and and and perhaps too fancy, we have

0:34:42.120 --> 0:34:45.440
<v Speaker 1>to remind ourselves that this is a world um where

0:34:45.520 --> 0:34:51.120
<v Speaker 1>individuals like lu you are striving for universal perfection. Uh

0:34:51.160 --> 0:34:53.600
<v Speaker 1>So that's and we have to think about it too

0:34:53.600 --> 0:34:58.200
<v Speaker 1>in light of of Confucianism, Dalism and Buddhism as well,

0:34:58.239 --> 0:35:02.399
<v Speaker 1>which are all important energy in the world surrounding this uh,

0:35:02.440 --> 0:35:06.560
<v Speaker 1>this growing tea culture Now, the popularity of the Classic

0:35:06.600 --> 0:35:08.799
<v Speaker 1>of Tease not only spread the word of tea, it

0:35:08.880 --> 0:35:12.839
<v Speaker 1>also further enhanced its popularity and pushed both greater tea

0:35:12.920 --> 0:35:16.800
<v Speaker 1>trade and greater advancements in how it was cultivated and prepared.

0:35:18.000 --> 0:35:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Tea also spread throughout China during this time because it

0:35:21.040 --> 0:35:25.520
<v Speaker 1>had become just so embraced by Buddhist practice and culture. Um.

0:35:25.560 --> 0:35:28.120
<v Speaker 1>But it's also meant that when Buddhism fell out of

0:35:28.160 --> 0:35:32.000
<v Speaker 1>favor during the decline of the Tang dynasty, tea culture

0:35:32.040 --> 0:35:33.920
<v Speaker 1>did as well. And this would this is a trend

0:35:33.920 --> 0:35:37.440
<v Speaker 1>that would recur when foreign invaders would control parts of China,

0:35:37.880 --> 0:35:43.360
<v Speaker 1>Tea culture would suffer in that area. Interesting, does that

0:35:43.440 --> 0:35:46.560
<v Speaker 1>mean it was replaced by something or I wonder what

0:35:46.760 --> 0:35:51.720
<v Speaker 1>caused that correlation? It's it based on what I was reading.

0:35:51.719 --> 0:35:53.520
<v Speaker 1>And there may be more nuanced to this and more

0:35:53.640 --> 0:35:55.560
<v Speaker 1>more to this, but it would just be a situation

0:35:55.600 --> 0:36:01.000
<v Speaker 1>where uh, it was linked with the with the ruling party.

0:36:01.080 --> 0:36:03.359
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's kind of like a top down um

0:36:03.719 --> 0:36:10.440
<v Speaker 1>cultural um practice and without without t culture emanating from

0:36:10.920 --> 0:36:13.560
<v Speaker 1>uh sort of you know, in radiating waves from the

0:36:13.640 --> 0:36:16.040
<v Speaker 1>ruling body. It kind of falls out of favor and

0:36:16.040 --> 0:36:18.880
<v Speaker 1>you have people maybe falling, and you're gonna have cultural

0:36:18.920 --> 0:36:21.759
<v Speaker 1>trans transmission taking place there too. Of course, because you

0:36:21.800 --> 0:36:24.480
<v Speaker 1>also see in the in the histories where UH, you know,

0:36:24.560 --> 0:36:29.040
<v Speaker 1>some some groups, say the Mongols becomes the ruling body

0:36:29.200 --> 0:36:33.719
<v Speaker 1>in a part of China, they also become more Chinese

0:36:34.320 --> 0:36:37.320
<v Speaker 1>as they rule, So you know, the trans cultural transmission

0:36:37.360 --> 0:36:40.359
<v Speaker 1>goes both ways. But it seems like you would have

0:36:40.440 --> 0:36:44.280
<v Speaker 1>these situations where a foreign power would would take control

0:36:44.320 --> 0:36:47.360
<v Speaker 1>for a while and yet just key popularity would wane.

0:36:47.719 --> 0:36:52.799
<v Speaker 1>But then when inevitably um Chinese rule was restored in

0:36:52.840 --> 0:36:55.160
<v Speaker 1>these areas, you would see the reverse. And one of

0:36:55.200 --> 0:36:58.000
<v Speaker 1>the examples of this would be nine sixty s UH.

0:36:58.120 --> 0:37:01.000
<v Speaker 1>The the the rule of the song honesty brought tea

0:37:01.200 --> 0:37:04.439
<v Speaker 1>back to the forefront. It's trade during this period became

0:37:04.480 --> 0:37:07.080
<v Speaker 1>so important that the Imperial Court found that they could

0:37:07.600 --> 0:37:11.600
<v Speaker 1>just restrict or manipulate the flow of tea two outlying

0:37:11.719 --> 0:37:15.200
<v Speaker 1>regions UM if deemed necessary. So it would would be

0:37:15.239 --> 0:37:19.319
<v Speaker 1>a way to control UH and manipulate other groups, such

0:37:19.360 --> 0:37:22.480
<v Speaker 1>as determining how much tea goes to say to bat door,

0:37:22.520 --> 0:37:26.240
<v Speaker 1>to the Mongols, or to the Turks and others, almost

0:37:26.280 --> 0:37:29.560
<v Speaker 1>kind of like a spice trade. Of dune sort of scenario. Um,

0:37:29.920 --> 0:37:32.279
<v Speaker 1>you know, and certainly that's the sort of thing that

0:37:32.280 --> 0:37:34.480
<v Speaker 1>that Frank Herbert was was thinking of when he was

0:37:34.719 --> 0:37:38.200
<v Speaker 1>writing do maybe not tea specifically, but but obviously this

0:37:38.400 --> 0:37:42.520
<v Speaker 1>control of of a of a desired or vital resource

0:37:42.600 --> 0:37:47.000
<v Speaker 1>by one particular body. Yeah. It's also during this time period,

0:37:47.640 --> 0:37:51.440
<v Speaker 1>Martin rights, that we enter the second school or phase

0:37:51.680 --> 0:37:55.000
<v Speaker 1>of tea. So this first phase had been the brick era.

0:37:55.200 --> 0:37:57.279
<v Speaker 1>Again we're talking about those bricks of tea, you know,

0:37:57.320 --> 0:38:01.040
<v Speaker 1>how it's dried and then often stored, etcetera. But then

0:38:01.360 --> 0:38:04.759
<v Speaker 1>we're entering at this point the whipped school. And it's

0:38:04.800 --> 0:38:07.839
<v Speaker 1>called the whipped school due to the creation and popularity

0:38:07.840 --> 0:38:11.760
<v Speaker 1>of dried and powdered green tea that was then whipped

0:38:11.840 --> 0:38:15.000
<v Speaker 1>in boiling water until it's foamy. This is what we

0:38:15.120 --> 0:38:17.680
<v Speaker 1>typically call mach it ti today, and it was a

0:38:17.760 --> 0:38:20.080
<v Speaker 1>huge hit during this time period. Of course, has remained

0:38:20.080 --> 0:38:22.839
<v Speaker 1>with us. Oh that's interesting, Okay, I guess I do

0:38:22.920 --> 0:38:26.880
<v Speaker 1>associate uh mache ti with looking kind of foamy, but

0:38:26.960 --> 0:38:29.480
<v Speaker 1>I didn't realize why that was. So it's like typically

0:38:30.480 --> 0:38:32.959
<v Speaker 1>more of a powder form that that is whipped into

0:38:33.000 --> 0:38:36.920
<v Speaker 1>the water vigorously yeah, yeah, like generally you'll have and

0:38:36.960 --> 0:38:39.759
<v Speaker 1>we'll we'll probably come back around him to macha here

0:38:39.760 --> 0:38:41.520
<v Speaker 1>in a bit and talk about it in a special

0:38:41.560 --> 0:38:44.680
<v Speaker 1>in relation to Japanese tea culture. But yeah, even if

0:38:44.680 --> 0:38:46.480
<v Speaker 1>you get it today, you're probably gonna get some sort

0:38:46.520 --> 0:38:50.200
<v Speaker 1>of one, one variety or another of macha, perhaps like

0:38:50.239 --> 0:38:54.160
<v Speaker 1>a ceremonial grade tea. You're gonna put that in your

0:38:54.360 --> 0:38:56.680
<v Speaker 1>in your bowl or cup, and once you have the

0:38:56.680 --> 0:38:58.440
<v Speaker 1>hot water, you're gonna you're gonna want to whip it up.

0:38:58.440 --> 0:39:01.600
<v Speaker 1>There's gonna be a special implement do that. And this,

0:39:01.680 --> 0:39:04.200
<v Speaker 1>of course can also be quite exceptional. Okay, so we

0:39:04.280 --> 0:39:08.080
<v Speaker 1>go from brick to the whipped powder and then does

0:39:08.120 --> 0:39:10.680
<v Speaker 1>it does it change after that? Because that still doesn't

0:39:10.680 --> 0:39:13.279
<v Speaker 1>resemble the most of the tea preparation I can think

0:39:13.320 --> 0:39:16.279
<v Speaker 1>of today, which is based on steeping, right right, Well,

0:39:16.280 --> 0:39:18.560
<v Speaker 1>that is going to eventually be the third school, the

0:39:18.600 --> 0:39:21.800
<v Speaker 1>school of steeping, as in like loose leaf tea especially,

0:39:22.040 --> 0:39:25.279
<v Speaker 1>and we are still in this school today, Martin, right. Still,

0:39:25.280 --> 0:39:28.400
<v Speaker 1>of course, all three of these are still used. I

0:39:28.440 --> 0:39:30.239
<v Speaker 1>don't know if there's gonna be a fourth phase of tea.

0:39:30.320 --> 0:39:42.640
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. The laser school of tea. Thank thank

0:39:44.440 --> 0:39:46.200
<v Speaker 1>al Right, there there's more to the history of tea,

0:39:46.200 --> 0:39:48.720
<v Speaker 1>and we'll keep going with the history of tea in

0:39:48.800 --> 0:39:51.560
<v Speaker 1>a future episode here, but I thought it might be

0:39:51.760 --> 0:39:55.120
<v Speaker 1>fun at this point to discuss tea and health. Now.

0:39:55.120 --> 0:39:58.560
<v Speaker 1>I mentioned earlier how Martin pointed out that by the

0:39:58.600 --> 0:40:02.000
<v Speaker 1>fourth century, cet consumption was probably part of daily life

0:40:02.120 --> 0:40:04.719
<v Speaker 1>for many in China. But it wasn't good. You were

0:40:04.719 --> 0:40:06.880
<v Speaker 1>having to mask it with things like, you know, sometimes

0:40:06.880 --> 0:40:09.680
<v Speaker 1>things like citrus or ginger, which doesn't sound that bad,

0:40:09.680 --> 0:40:11.799
<v Speaker 1>but other times you're putting salt and onions in it,

0:40:12.280 --> 0:40:14.400
<v Speaker 1>all to try and make it more palpable. But you

0:40:14.440 --> 0:40:18.200
<v Speaker 1>were consuming it because it had perceived health benefits. You

0:40:18.239 --> 0:40:20.360
<v Speaker 1>also might just eat your tea leaves straight like a

0:40:20.480 --> 0:40:22.759
<v Speaker 1>vegetable in this time still, though again it would have

0:40:22.800 --> 0:40:25.560
<v Speaker 1>been bitter. It would not have been a pleasant experience.

0:40:25.920 --> 0:40:28.239
<v Speaker 1>You Also, I was surprised by this. You also might

0:40:28.280 --> 0:40:32.359
<v Speaker 1>have sniffed it like snuff so um. That would be

0:40:32.400 --> 0:40:35.000
<v Speaker 1>a sort of a you know, an approach to powdered

0:40:35.040 --> 0:40:37.920
<v Speaker 1>tea that I didn't think about. Also not what I'm

0:40:37.920 --> 0:40:41.600
<v Speaker 1>saying anyone needs to try, but but it was one

0:40:41.719 --> 0:40:45.359
<v Speaker 1>method that was used as was sometimes using it externally, uh,

0:40:45.480 --> 0:40:48.520
<v Speaker 1>like you know, applying it just to the skin, or

0:40:48.640 --> 0:40:53.560
<v Speaker 1>or perhaps to some sort of skin irritation like a poultice. Yeah.

0:40:53.920 --> 0:40:55.960
<v Speaker 1>So it was widely used during this time, again not

0:40:56.040 --> 0:40:59.399
<v Speaker 1>because it was necessarily pleasant to to have, but first

0:40:59.400 --> 0:41:03.040
<v Speaker 1>of all, it was associated with wakefulness and digestion, which

0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:05.799
<v Speaker 1>I think these are both agreed upon effects of caffeine.

0:41:06.160 --> 0:41:09.600
<v Speaker 1>If you've had caffeine, or or explored caffeine, or even

0:41:09.640 --> 0:41:12.800
<v Speaker 1>been around people that have that use caffeine, you probably

0:41:13.000 --> 0:41:15.799
<v Speaker 1>know that this is the case. Like caffeine can can

0:41:15.800 --> 0:41:18.360
<v Speaker 1>wake you up, it can make you more alert. It

0:41:18.400 --> 0:41:21.600
<v Speaker 1>can also speed up digestion and um. Yeah, and that's

0:41:21.600 --> 0:41:22.960
<v Speaker 1>why if you go to a coffee house or a

0:41:22.960 --> 0:41:24.719
<v Speaker 1>teahouse these days, there may be a weight at the

0:41:24.719 --> 0:41:26.759
<v Speaker 1>bathroom and there may be a lot of people with

0:41:27.120 --> 0:41:29.399
<v Speaker 1>you know, a lot of crackling energy. But it's worth

0:41:29.440 --> 0:41:32.080
<v Speaker 1>it because, as Lou Tong said, what it searches the

0:41:32.160 --> 0:41:34.760
<v Speaker 1>dry rivulets of the soul helps you find the stories

0:41:34.800 --> 0:41:38.240
<v Speaker 1>of five thousand scrolls. Yeah, I'd say that still checks

0:41:38.239 --> 0:41:41.680
<v Speaker 1>out caffeine effects on cognition. Yeah. At the same time,

0:41:41.719 --> 0:41:43.520
<v Speaker 1>though it was also used during this time as a

0:41:43.560 --> 0:41:47.400
<v Speaker 1>treatment for everything from poor eyesight, skin, and oregon issues.

0:41:48.120 --> 0:41:51.400
<v Speaker 1>It was also considered a strong preventative medicine and something

0:41:51.440 --> 0:41:55.720
<v Speaker 1>that positively impacted one's cheese. So we again, so we're

0:41:55.760 --> 0:42:00.440
<v Speaker 1>seeing like the full spectrum here of possible and saved

0:42:01.120 --> 0:42:06.040
<v Speaker 1>uses for tea that benefited your current ailments, preventage other ailments,

0:42:06.040 --> 0:42:10.560
<v Speaker 1>and maybe even affected sort of spiritual energy. Uh, concepts

0:42:10.560 --> 0:42:15.680
<v Speaker 1>regarding the functionality of the human body. Yes, now, uh,

0:42:15.920 --> 0:42:19.480
<v Speaker 1>because we've raised the question in the historical context here

0:42:19.480 --> 0:42:23.200
<v Speaker 1>of beliefs about tea and it's positive impacts on health,

0:42:23.640 --> 0:42:26.400
<v Speaker 1>I think it's worth looking at what some of the

0:42:26.440 --> 0:42:29.920
<v Speaker 1>modern major nutrition science findings on the health effects of

0:42:29.960 --> 0:42:32.719
<v Speaker 1>t R. But strong caveat I'm not going to go

0:42:32.800 --> 0:42:36.360
<v Speaker 1>deep on this because I just feel personally, like you know,

0:42:36.400 --> 0:42:38.880
<v Speaker 1>we look at a lot of different domains of science,

0:42:39.360 --> 0:42:41.480
<v Speaker 1>and I feel like there is no quicker way to

0:42:41.560 --> 0:42:44.680
<v Speaker 1>lose your mind than looking for scientific papers on a

0:42:44.800 --> 0:42:48.880
<v Speaker 1>question of is this common food or drink either good

0:42:49.000 --> 0:42:53.120
<v Speaker 1>or bad for your health? Coffee, tea, chocolate, wine, a

0:42:53.200 --> 0:42:55.880
<v Speaker 1>million other things. It always seems like there are just

0:42:56.120 --> 0:42:59.440
<v Speaker 1>reams of conflicting results, some of which sound prima facy

0:42:59.520 --> 0:43:02.120
<v Speaker 1>absurd and probably are you know, like a study show

0:43:02.760 --> 0:43:06.240
<v Speaker 1>uh wine cure's heart disease or something like that. And

0:43:06.239 --> 0:43:10.120
<v Speaker 1>and I detect the presence of persistent methodological problems with

0:43:10.239 --> 0:43:13.319
<v Speaker 1>attempts to look at this kind of thing specifically, like

0:43:13.400 --> 0:43:16.360
<v Speaker 1>does a common food or drink item that people consume

0:43:16.719 --> 0:43:20.080
<v Speaker 1>for pleasure or for other reasons have uh, you know,

0:43:21.000 --> 0:43:24.200
<v Speaker 1>x broad health effect. But uh, with that caveat, I'm

0:43:24.200 --> 0:43:27.680
<v Speaker 1>going to cite the findings of a major meta analysis

0:43:28.280 --> 0:43:31.040
<v Speaker 1>that I looked at from twenty nineteen. So. This was

0:43:31.120 --> 0:43:35.720
<v Speaker 1>by Mengshi Yi called t Consumption and Health Outcomes Umbrella

0:43:35.800 --> 0:43:39.680
<v Speaker 1>Review of Meta Analyzes of observational studies and Humans. This

0:43:39.840 --> 0:43:43.120
<v Speaker 1>was published in the journal Molecular Nutrition and Food Research

0:43:43.239 --> 0:43:46.560
<v Speaker 1>and twenty nineteen. Uh So, this study is an umbrella

0:43:46.680 --> 0:43:49.640
<v Speaker 1>review also known as a review of reviews, which kind

0:43:49.680 --> 0:43:51.880
<v Speaker 1>of gives you an idea how much research there is

0:43:51.880 --> 0:43:55.000
<v Speaker 1>on the topic, so to picture where this rests in

0:43:55.080 --> 0:43:58.680
<v Speaker 1>the research hierarchy. Of course, you can have individual studies

0:43:58.760 --> 0:44:01.480
<v Speaker 1>or experiments on uh, you know, the effect of TE

0:44:01.719 --> 0:44:04.719
<v Speaker 1>on some particular outcome, and then you can have a

0:44:04.760 --> 0:44:07.480
<v Speaker 1>paper a level above that, which is a review or

0:44:07.520 --> 0:44:11.400
<v Speaker 1>a meta analysis which compares and analyzes and usually averages

0:44:11.440 --> 0:44:14.719
<v Speaker 1>the results of many different individual studies of a bunch

0:44:14.719 --> 0:44:16.840
<v Speaker 1>of you know, it collects everything it can find in

0:44:16.840 --> 0:44:19.520
<v Speaker 1>the literature and says, when you compare all these what

0:44:19.640 --> 0:44:22.120
<v Speaker 1>results poke out? And then if you have enough of

0:44:22.160 --> 0:44:24.600
<v Speaker 1>those reviews within a subject area, you can have an

0:44:24.680 --> 0:44:29.000
<v Speaker 1>umbrella review, which is a review of reviews. And sometimes

0:44:29.080 --> 0:44:31.920
<v Speaker 1>umbrella reviews are going to have like a broader question. So,

0:44:32.000 --> 0:44:35.360
<v Speaker 1>for example, you can have a meta analysis of studies

0:44:35.400 --> 0:44:39.800
<v Speaker 1>on the relationship between tea and cardiovascular disease, and another

0:44:39.800 --> 0:44:43.440
<v Speaker 1>one comparing studies on T and various cancers, and then

0:44:43.480 --> 0:44:45.879
<v Speaker 1>you can maybe have an umbrella review looking at all

0:44:45.920 --> 0:44:49.080
<v Speaker 1>those meta analyzes to understand the relationship between tea and

0:44:49.160 --> 0:44:52.600
<v Speaker 1>health outcomes more generally. Okay, so sorry about all that preamble,

0:44:52.640 --> 0:44:55.920
<v Speaker 1>But anyway, what did this umbrella review find in the

0:44:55.960 --> 0:44:59.200
<v Speaker 1>existing literature as of twenty nineteen. Well, it looked at

0:44:59.280 --> 0:45:03.560
<v Speaker 1>nine si AT analyzes addressing forty different health outcomes, and

0:45:03.640 --> 0:45:07.520
<v Speaker 1>it concluded that overall, studies showed greater evidence for health

0:45:07.600 --> 0:45:12.120
<v Speaker 1>benefits than for harm to health from T consumption. So, uh,

0:45:12.160 --> 0:45:15.920
<v Speaker 1>they say, quote dose response analysis of T consumption indicates

0:45:15.960 --> 0:45:21.480
<v Speaker 1>reduced risks of total mortality, cardiac death, coronary artery disease, stroke,

0:45:21.640 --> 0:45:25.279
<v Speaker 1>and type two diabetes melitas with increment of two to

0:45:25.400 --> 0:45:28.840
<v Speaker 1>three cups per day. Beneficial associations are also found for

0:45:28.880 --> 0:45:34.120
<v Speaker 1>several cancers, skeletal, cognitive, and maternal outcomes. Harmful associations are

0:45:34.120 --> 0:45:38.160
<v Speaker 1>found for esophageal cancer and gastric cancer when the temperature

0:45:38.200 --> 0:45:42.120
<v Speaker 1>of intake is more than fifty five to sixty degrees celsius.

0:45:43.360 --> 0:45:46.120
<v Speaker 1>Uh So. This leads them to the conclusion that except

0:45:46.280 --> 0:45:49.719
<v Speaker 1>for the upper digestive cancer risk that may be associated

0:45:49.760 --> 0:45:52.640
<v Speaker 1>with drinking very hot tea and again greater than fifty

0:45:52.640 --> 0:45:55.440
<v Speaker 1>five to sixty degrees c is about one thirty one

0:45:55.520 --> 0:45:58.880
<v Speaker 1>to one forty degrees fahrenheit. Unless you're drinking tea that

0:45:59.000 --> 0:46:02.440
<v Speaker 1>hot or hotter. Normal levels of tea consumptions, such as

0:46:02.440 --> 0:46:05.560
<v Speaker 1>two to three cups per day, appear safe, and those

0:46:05.640 --> 0:46:09.239
<v Speaker 1>levels of tea and take are even associated with a

0:46:09.320 --> 0:46:13.279
<v Speaker 1>broad range of apparently positive health effects. The ones I

0:46:13.320 --> 0:46:16.560
<v Speaker 1>mentioned a minute ago, however, this is a very important

0:46:17.000 --> 0:46:21.920
<v Speaker 1>thing to stress. They acknowledge the difficulty in disentangling regular

0:46:22.000 --> 0:46:26.400
<v Speaker 1>dietary t consumption from possible confounding variables, and so they

0:46:26.480 --> 0:46:31.080
<v Speaker 1>argue that to really conclude that the observed associations or causal,

0:46:31.200 --> 0:46:34.799
<v Speaker 1>so you know, for example, finding that uh T consumption

0:46:34.880 --> 0:46:37.600
<v Speaker 1>of two to three cups per day might be associated

0:46:37.640 --> 0:46:40.919
<v Speaker 1>with like reduced risk of cardiac death or something like that.

0:46:41.400 --> 0:46:43.640
<v Speaker 1>In order to really be sure that that that the

0:46:43.719 --> 0:46:46.239
<v Speaker 1>T is the cause of that and not just some

0:46:46.360 --> 0:46:50.280
<v Speaker 1>random association, you would need to do randomized control trials.

0:46:50.800 --> 0:46:52.680
<v Speaker 1>And this is often true. I think when you're looking

0:46:52.719 --> 0:46:56.120
<v Speaker 1>at connections between like common food or drink items and

0:46:56.160 --> 0:47:00.000
<v Speaker 1>health outcomes, you might find that any random thing, people

0:47:00.080 --> 0:47:02.840
<v Speaker 1>who eat kelp on a regular basis have a lower

0:47:02.960 --> 0:47:06.759
<v Speaker 1>risk of pancreatic cancer, But that doesn't actually show that

0:47:06.800 --> 0:47:08.960
<v Speaker 1>it's the kelp that makes the difference. It could be

0:47:09.040 --> 0:47:12.120
<v Speaker 1>that people who have a lower risk of that cancer

0:47:12.880 --> 0:47:15.520
<v Speaker 1>also for some reason, just happen to eat more kelp.

0:47:15.600 --> 0:47:17.560
<v Speaker 1>And the best way to establish the kelp is the

0:47:17.600 --> 0:47:20.760
<v Speaker 1>cause would again be to do a randomized controlled trial,

0:47:20.800 --> 0:47:23.520
<v Speaker 1>which is the gold standard used for testing new drugs

0:47:23.600 --> 0:47:26.840
<v Speaker 1>and so forth, uh but not always used to examine

0:47:26.880 --> 0:47:29.680
<v Speaker 1>the health effects of common food and drink items such

0:47:29.719 --> 0:47:32.480
<v Speaker 1>as coffee, chocolate, tea, all these things that you see

0:47:32.480 --> 0:47:35.360
<v Speaker 1>a million conflicting study results on you know, uh T

0:47:35.880 --> 0:47:38.719
<v Speaker 1>helps this health effect, and then another study says maybe

0:47:38.760 --> 0:47:40.560
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't. So in the end, I think it's hard

0:47:40.600 --> 0:47:44.680
<v Speaker 1>to get very uh solid results on on these kind

0:47:44.680 --> 0:47:47.440
<v Speaker 1>of food and drink items. But at least the existing

0:47:47.480 --> 0:47:51.240
<v Speaker 1>research today makes it look like broadly tea is pretty

0:47:51.239 --> 0:47:53.040
<v Speaker 1>safe to drink as long as you're drinking it within

0:47:53.160 --> 0:47:56.759
<v Speaker 1>moderation and not super hot and uh and may in

0:47:56.800 --> 0:48:00.120
<v Speaker 1>fact have some positive health benefits associated with it, but

0:48:00.320 --> 0:48:03.680
<v Speaker 1>don't bank on those too much. M hm, Well, these

0:48:03.680 --> 0:48:05.440
<v Speaker 1>are all great points. Like depending on the study, you

0:48:05.480 --> 0:48:06.960
<v Speaker 1>might be it might be a situation where it's the

0:48:07.200 --> 0:48:10.560
<v Speaker 1>tea cakes that are causing all of the positive health effects, right, Yeah,

0:48:10.600 --> 0:48:12.759
<v Speaker 1>it may not be causal about drinking the tea at all.

0:48:12.800 --> 0:48:14.960
<v Speaker 1>Maybe it's that people who have lower risk of whatever

0:48:15.120 --> 0:48:18.520
<v Speaker 1>are also just for some reason cultural or otherwise more

0:48:18.600 --> 0:48:20.880
<v Speaker 1>likely to drink tea. Or it could be that the

0:48:20.920 --> 0:48:23.560
<v Speaker 1>act of sitting down and drinking something warm from a cup.

0:48:23.600 --> 0:48:25.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I don't know what all they compared it to,

0:48:25.480 --> 0:48:28.640
<v Speaker 1>what controls they used on all these different experiments, because

0:48:28.640 --> 0:48:30.640
<v Speaker 1>there have been a lot of them. But that's where

0:48:30.719 --> 0:48:33.080
<v Speaker 1>the research show looks like it lands today. But but

0:48:33.239 --> 0:48:36.520
<v Speaker 1>I did want to note that positive health effects of

0:48:36.560 --> 0:48:40.719
<v Speaker 1>tea could exist and might also be construed, not in

0:48:40.800 --> 0:48:44.560
<v Speaker 1>an absolute sense, but in the sense of comparing tea

0:48:45.080 --> 0:48:49.480
<v Speaker 1>to alternatives, to other things you could consume instead of tea. Yeah,

0:48:49.560 --> 0:48:51.680
<v Speaker 1>And in this I want to turn to a quote

0:48:51.920 --> 0:48:55.880
<v Speaker 1>from the herbal classic that I think we referenced this

0:48:55.960 --> 0:48:59.320
<v Speaker 1>work in the last episode. It is attributed to Shinnong

0:48:59.719 --> 0:49:04.600
<v Speaker 1>again and the divine farmer with the crystal uh stomach Uh.

0:49:04.719 --> 0:49:07.719
<v Speaker 1>That is one in some of the myths is attributed

0:49:07.719 --> 0:49:11.799
<v Speaker 1>as discovering tea, and the quote reasons follows in translation,

0:49:12.040 --> 0:49:15.319
<v Speaker 1>quote Tea is better than wine, for it leadeth not

0:49:15.480 --> 0:49:18.600
<v Speaker 1>to intoxication, neither does it cause a man to say

0:49:18.640 --> 0:49:22.920
<v Speaker 1>foolish things and repent thereof in his sober moments. It

0:49:23.040 --> 0:49:25.440
<v Speaker 1>is better than water, for it does not carry disease.

0:49:25.800 --> 0:49:28.319
<v Speaker 1>Neither does it act like poison as water does when

0:49:28.360 --> 0:49:32.400
<v Speaker 1>it contains foul and rotten matter. Hey, that's the couple

0:49:32.440 --> 0:49:36.080
<v Speaker 1>of I would say, quite solid observations. Yeah, I mean,

0:49:36.160 --> 0:49:39.240
<v Speaker 1>I think I think it's fair to agree that the

0:49:39.280 --> 0:49:41.880
<v Speaker 1>over indulgence of tea is less of a public or

0:49:42.280 --> 0:49:46.800
<v Speaker 1>health or safety issue compared to the consumption of alcohol. Yeah,

0:49:46.880 --> 0:49:49.879
<v Speaker 1>and then, as Martin points out and in her book,

0:49:50.160 --> 0:49:53.160
<v Speaker 1>this last bit is also certainly true. T prepared with

0:49:53.280 --> 0:49:56.200
<v Speaker 1>boiling water would rid the water of many of the

0:49:56.239 --> 0:49:59.520
<v Speaker 1>inherent pathogens. So if you're just looking at the difference

0:49:59.560 --> 0:50:03.879
<v Speaker 1>between having a hot cup of tea and drinking lane

0:50:03.960 --> 0:50:07.560
<v Speaker 1>or rain water or something um or or any kind

0:50:07.560 --> 0:50:10.280
<v Speaker 1>of water that might be on hand for pure drinking purposes,

0:50:10.640 --> 0:50:15.000
<v Speaker 1>the tea is a healthier choice historically speaking, that seems

0:50:15.080 --> 0:50:17.239
<v Speaker 1>quite true as long as people are, of course not

0:50:17.320 --> 0:50:20.640
<v Speaker 1>consuming that seventh cup of tea and uh, you know,

0:50:20.760 --> 0:50:24.759
<v Speaker 1>rapturing themselves to the Holy Mountain. Right, Yeah, you don't

0:50:24.800 --> 0:50:27.440
<v Speaker 1>want to accidentally fly to pung Li before you get

0:50:27.480 --> 0:50:30.440
<v Speaker 1>to work in the morning. Right And and yet to

0:50:30.719 --> 0:50:33.200
<v Speaker 1>your point, just the the idea of your drinking tea,

0:50:33.320 --> 0:50:36.520
<v Speaker 1>then what are you not drinking If you're not drinking alcohol,

0:50:36.560 --> 0:50:40.480
<v Speaker 1>you're not drinking wine, you're not drinking water, that may,

0:50:40.920 --> 0:50:44.080
<v Speaker 1>you know, given the circumstances, might not be the purest

0:50:44.160 --> 0:50:47.759
<v Speaker 1>or the healthiest choice at that time. Uh yeah, this

0:50:47.840 --> 0:50:49.839
<v Speaker 1>is all fascinating. I think that's going to do it

0:50:49.880 --> 0:50:52.520
<v Speaker 1>for part two, right, Yeah, I think this is all

0:50:52.520 --> 0:50:54.520
<v Speaker 1>we have time for in this episode, but we'll come

0:50:54.560 --> 0:50:56.600
<v Speaker 1>back for a part three. We're gonna look a little

0:50:56.680 --> 0:50:59.800
<v Speaker 1>more at the history and evolution of tea and possibly

0:50:59.800 --> 0:51:02.520
<v Speaker 1>going into some other tea cultures as well, and we'll

0:51:02.520 --> 0:51:05.120
<v Speaker 1>see what else comes up. In the meantime. We'd love

0:51:05.160 --> 0:51:06.759
<v Speaker 1>to hear from everyone out there, because I know we

0:51:06.840 --> 0:51:08.960
<v Speaker 1>have a lot of tea drinkers out there, tea drinkers

0:51:09.000 --> 0:51:13.600
<v Speaker 1>from different parts of the world, different tastes, different experiences.

0:51:14.480 --> 0:51:16.959
<v Speaker 1>We'd love to hear everything you have to say about

0:51:17.000 --> 0:51:20.080
<v Speaker 1>the matter. H So right in let us know, I'd

0:51:20.080 --> 0:51:22.759
<v Speaker 1>love to hear from you. Reminder that core episodes of

0:51:23.040 --> 0:51:25.319
<v Speaker 1>To Blow Your Mind published on two days and Thursdays.

0:51:25.440 --> 0:51:28.800
<v Speaker 1>Monday is listener Mail. Wednesday is a short form artifact

0:51:28.880 --> 0:51:30.880
<v Speaker 1>or monster fact, and on Fridays we set aside most

0:51:30.920 --> 0:51:33.240
<v Speaker 1>serious concerns to talk about a weird film on Weird

0:51:33.280 --> 0:51:37.000
<v Speaker 1>House Cinema. Huge thanks to our audio producer J. J. Pauseway.

0:51:37.280 --> 0:51:38.799
<v Speaker 1>If you would like to get in touch with us

0:51:38.800 --> 0:51:41.360
<v Speaker 1>with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

0:51:41.440 --> 0:51:43.479
<v Speaker 1>a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

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