Speaker 1: The immortal Dan Chew abandoned eating jade elixirs, picking tea instead.
Speaker 1: He drank and grew feathered wings. The world is unaware
Speaker 1: of the mansion of imminent and hidden immortals. People do
Speaker 1: not know of the palace of transmuting bone into clouds.
Speaker 1: The lad of Cloudy Mountain blended it in a gold cauldron.
Speaker 1: How hollow the fame of the Man of Chew and
Speaker 1: his book of Tea. Late on a frosty night, breaking
Speaker 1: cakes off fragrant tea brood to overflowing of the pale
Speaker 1: yellow frock. I sip and am reborn, Bestowed by the gentleman.
Speaker 1: This tea dispels my suffering, cleansing my mind from worry
Speaker 1: and fear, come mourning. The emotions of the fragrant brazier
Speaker 1: remain intoxicated. Still we walk across the clouds reflected in
Speaker 1: tiger stream in high song, I send the gentleman off
Speaker 1: well to stuff to blow your mind. Production of my
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, you welcome to stuff to blow your mind.
Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. That
Speaker 1: is from a song of Drinking Tea On the departure
Speaker 1: of zing wrong by Jao Ran. This particular bit of
Speaker 1: Chinese poetry UM, I came across when I was reading
Speaker 1: a blog post four ancient Chinese poems on t in
Speaker 1: one symphony. This was on the website Tranquility Tuesdays, and
Speaker 1: I found this one interesting because the the author of
Speaker 1: this piece pointed out that the piece that we opened
Speaker 1: the first episode off with the seven bowls of tea
Speaker 1: is just very well sided. You'll find it referenced in
Speaker 1: just about any history of tea. Uh, it's it frequently
Speaker 1: shows up on tea blogs and so forth. The author
Speaker 1: here noted that, you know, given that it is you
Speaker 1: know overm cited, uh, that one should also include other
Speaker 1: poems of note, and this is one such poem well
Speaker 1: so in the original poem, I'd say the major theme
Speaker 1: was sort of the mounting levels of of experience that
Speaker 1: come with each successive cup of tea up until you
Speaker 1: hit the danger zone, crossing the threshold from the sixth
Speaker 1: to the dreaded seventh cup. In this case, what what
Speaker 1: would you say? The main themes are I see here
Speaker 1: um kind of a kind of a community or a
Speaker 1: filial aspect to to the tea talking about you know,
Speaker 1: the lab bruise it, and then these two drink it together,
Speaker 1: though I'm not sure exactly who these two people are
Speaker 1: supposed to be. Yeah, there's definitely more of an earth
Speaker 1: bound since here I'm getting you know. It is of
Speaker 1: course beautifully written and has that kind of ethereal quality
Speaker 1: to it as well. But the Tea is not just
Speaker 1: taking you and transforming you and into into an immortal
Speaker 1: and sending you to a mythical land. Uh, It's it's
Speaker 1: making you feel reborn, but also all of the world
Speaker 1: as well, or at least that's my interpretation of it.
Speaker 1: So anyway, Yeah, this is part two of our look
Speaker 1: at T're we're already hearing from some folks regarding our
Speaker 1: first episode, and in the second episode we're gonna continue
Speaker 1: the journey. So go back and listen to part one
Speaker 1: if you haven't heard it yet, because in that last
Speaker 1: episode we discussed the botanical facts concerning T as well
Speaker 1: as some myths about its origin. But now that we've
Speaker 1: established what T is and where it's spring from and
Speaker 1: reference some of the mythological ideas about te and read
Speaker 1: a couple of poems. Uh. This most recent was the
Speaker 1: most tank dynasty by the way. Um. At this point,
Speaker 1: I think it's time to discuss the history of t
Speaker 1: uh in a little more detail, especially as it concerns
Speaker 1: the ways that it can be prepared and was prepared
Speaker 1: across time. So I think that it makes sense, first
Speaker 1: of all, to just look at some of the steps
Speaker 1: that are frequently employed in preparing tea uh in uh
Speaker 1: you know, after it's been harvest what happens between it
Speaker 1: growing on the plant that we discussed in part one
Speaker 1: and somehow making it into a cup or bowl of
Speaker 1: tea the beverage, right, and so one thing we talked
Speaker 1: about in the previous episode is how different types of
Speaker 1: tea that you get, say black tea versus green tea
Speaker 1: versus wide or oolong, they will usually be from the
Speaker 1: same plant or the same of a couple of variants
Speaker 1: of this plant Camellia sinensis. There there's one t plant,
Speaker 1: and so the differences you get in the different tea
Speaker 1: s are based on how it is processed and prepared,
Speaker 1: right right. So um. One of the books that I've
Speaker 1: been looking at here is Laura C. Martin's A History
Speaker 1: of Tea, and I think the author here does a
Speaker 1: fabulous job laying out the history and and also the
Speaker 1: different steps involved in creating these beverages of tea. She
Speaker 1: points out that no matter what sort of tea preparation
Speaker 1: you're talking about, certain steps are common, too many of them.
Speaker 1: Not all varieties of tea involve all the steps, but
Speaker 1: it's worth going over them all and then we can say, well,
Speaker 1: this one doesn't involve this step, and this one does
Speaker 1: involve this step. Okay. So it starts, of course, with
Speaker 1: the gathering of the leaves. Usually on tea farms, they
Speaker 1: will be collected as flushes, these sort of top buds
Speaker 1: of a couple of leaves and a shoot coming off
Speaker 1: the top of the plant. Uh. Those will be harvested
Speaker 1: and the rest of the plan will be left there
Speaker 1: to produce new flushes in the future. And so you
Speaker 1: gather a bunch of these flushes of leaves, and then
Speaker 1: what do you do with them? Yeah, you could, I guess,
Speaker 1: just stick them in your mouth. But here's the thing.
Speaker 1: If you do that, and certainly we have some of
Speaker 1: these tales of some of these mythical origins of tea
Speaker 1: saying that's what happened. People stuck it in their mouth,
Speaker 1: and and you know that might well be connected to
Speaker 1: some of the original ways that that human beings explore
Speaker 1: the natures of the tea plant leaves and even gain
Speaker 1: some of the effects. But if you just stick them
Speaker 1: in your mouth and start chewing, it's going to be
Speaker 1: really bitter. So this is at this point we have
Speaker 1: the first step of withering. So the freat green leaves
Speaker 1: and buds are dried out, either in a heated room
Speaker 1: of some sort or they're left in the sun, and
Speaker 1: this causes the starch and the leaves to begin transforming
Speaker 1: into sugar and the moisture content drops by, and this
Speaker 1: allows the next possible step to take place, which is
Speaker 1: the rolling of the tea leaves and then be able
Speaker 1: to roll it without breaking the leaves. Um. This is
Speaker 1: something you might have to think back to your childhood
Speaker 1: days of like playing with leaves and sticks. But sometimes
Speaker 1: if a leaf is fresh and you go to like
Speaker 1: roll it up, it's going to it's gonna break, m
Speaker 1: all right. The rolling hard here is often done via
Speaker 1: machines today but is historically done by hand, and the
Speaker 1: rolling without breaking here twists and crushes the leaves in
Speaker 1: a way that releases sap, exposes it to oxygen, and
Speaker 1: stimulates fermentation. Additional rolling and or sifting may take place
Speaker 1: here as well, so that's step two. Now. One reason
Speaker 1: you might be roll ling or or sort of bruising
Speaker 1: these leaves in some way and essentially handling them roughly
Speaker 1: is in order to stimulate oxidation. Oxidation in general refers
Speaker 1: to a broad class of chemical reactions that take place
Speaker 1: when molecules are exposed to oxygen or another oxidizing agent.
Speaker 1: And a core feature of an oxidation reaction is that
Speaker 1: the molecules that are getting oxidized are losing electrons, but
Speaker 1: that doesn't tell us much. It's usually it's some type
Speaker 1: of chemical reaction. Now, it's interesting that the deliberate oxidation
Speaker 1: of tea leaves is an important stage, and they're processing
Speaker 1: especially for producing darker tease, not less so for greener teas,
Speaker 1: because most often oxidation in foods is not something you want.
Speaker 1: It's an undesirable outcome associated with spoilage and rancidity. So
Speaker 1: some examples, and I guess these would be the closest
Speaker 1: analogies their oxidation reactions of various types, Like there's oxidation
Speaker 1: of of ats and so forth in in oils. But
Speaker 1: for an analogy in plants. Think about when you cut
Speaker 1: an apple. So you cut an apple in half and
Speaker 1: you leave it out on the counter, what happens brown right, Uh?
Speaker 1: And this browning is not generally considered good. It's not
Speaker 1: something that makes the apple harmful to eat, but most
Speaker 1: of the time people don't find it very appetizing. It
Speaker 1: changes the appearance and sometimes the flavor and texture as well.
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, taste can vary, but most people
Speaker 1: would not say that is a type of browning that
Speaker 1: they seek out on purpose. And this is actually true
Speaker 1: of many foods, especially fruits. So you can think of
Speaker 1: the way avocados brown wants they're cut or smashed and
Speaker 1: left out on the counter, or or potatoes or any
Speaker 1: number of other plant based foods. The chemical reaction taking
Speaker 1: place here is a form of oxidation called in sematic browning,
Speaker 1: and in sematic browning is due to an enzyme called
Speaker 1: polyphenol oxidase. Fruits and vegetables have compounds in them called
Speaker 1: phenol compounds, and when these compounds get exposed to both
Speaker 1: oxygen and to that enzyme to polyphenol oxidase at the
Speaker 1: same time, they react with the oxygen and go through
Speaker 1: a multi step transformation process that ends with them turning
Speaker 1: into melanin. Melanin is a natural brown pigment that you
Speaker 1: can find in all forms of life. It's in plants,
Speaker 1: it's in fungi, it's in animals including us. It's the
Speaker 1: brown pigment in human hair and skin and inner irises.
Speaker 1: And so that process naturally takes place once once you
Speaker 1: cut an apple or a banana or any any of
Speaker 1: these foods. But how come this chemical reaction turning phenolic
Speaker 1: compounds into melanin doesn't happen once they when the apple
Speaker 1: is just like sitting there on the counter uncut. How
Speaker 1: come it only happens once you cut it. This is
Speaker 1: because in order for the reaction to happen, we need
Speaker 1: three different substances to come into contact with one another.
Speaker 1: So you need the phenolic compounds the base molecules were transforming.
Speaker 1: You need the enzyme, which in this case is polyphenol oxidase,
Speaker 1: and you need the free oxygen in the air. And
Speaker 1: when all three elements are present there together, then you
Speaker 1: get this browning process. So in plant tissue, the enzyme,
Speaker 1: the polyphenol oxidase, and the phenolic compounds are usually kept
Speaker 1: separate from one another. But damage to the plant, such
Speaker 1: as cutting it open or bashing it and bruising it
Speaker 1: will rupture cells and cause these chemicals to blend together
Speaker 1: in unite, and then you expose them to air and
Speaker 1: the oxidation happens. Now, coming back to what I said earlier,
Speaker 1: in somatic browning is considered undesirable in lots of foods
Speaker 1: like uh, you know you do you, But most people
Speaker 1: would rather eat their apple slices, bananas, avocados, and so
Speaker 1: forth before they sit out on the counter for a
Speaker 1: few hours and turn brown. The browned versions of these
Speaker 1: plants kind of look and taste degraded, not exactly fresh.
Speaker 1: But in other plants, the brown unning process has a
Speaker 1: desirable outcome. It is used on purpose to achieve desirable
Speaker 1: improvements in appearance, texture, and flavor. One example would be
Speaker 1: in certain dried fruits like raisins go through enzymatic browning
Speaker 1: it deliberately in order to create new and interesting flavors
Speaker 1: that people like. And another example might be in seeds
Speaker 1: or leaves used to bruce strongly flavored caffeinated beverages. Oxidative
Speaker 1: browning is specifically sought out as part of the preparation
Speaker 1: process for tea leaves. So you can think about the
Speaker 1: process of say, rolling tea leaves around, like smashing them
Speaker 1: or rolling them in a in a tumbler of some
Speaker 1: kind in order to kind of like bruise and uh,
Speaker 1: and just rough up the leaves to get these get
Speaker 1: these different compounds coming together and expose them to oxygen
Speaker 1: to to trigger this browning process. Yeah. I like to
Speaker 1: come back to the apple example, the apple that that's spilled,
Speaker 1: it falls out of the bowl and falls off the
Speaker 1: owner and rolls across the floor. Uh. You know that's
Speaker 1: the one that gets all bruised up, and those bruises
Speaker 1: are brown. That's the oxidation taking place. Yeah, exactly. And
Speaker 1: again you know you don't usually want that in an apple,
Speaker 1: but it turns out you do it to a tea leaf,
Speaker 1: and oh it's producing all these nice, interesting new aromas
Speaker 1: and flavors. It's making the tea taste. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of tea producers would say it makes it. It
Speaker 1: sort of takes away some of the fresh, grassy flavor
Speaker 1: of green tea and introduces these complex sweet flavors that
Speaker 1: taste more like a floral aromas or like fruits. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it creates this this whole additional dimension of flavor. Now,
Speaker 1: this this stage of oxidation here, Martin stresses that it's
Speaker 1: it's super important for determining the flavor destination of the tea.
Speaker 1: It typically takes about three hours. Uh. If it is done,
Speaker 1: the leaves are left on trays and a cool, damp
Speaker 1: place often and the oxidation causes them to turn from
Speaker 1: green to kind of a copper color. Uh. They also
Speaker 1: heat up during this phase. And you also and you
Speaker 1: have to depending on exactly what you're doing with the
Speaker 1: tea leaves, you may have to halt it as well,
Speaker 1: because you don't want the oxidation to go too far,
Speaker 1: because then you'll end up with what's described as kind
Speaker 1: of a burnt taste. It's also really important to note
Speaker 1: here that not all teas go through this phase. Um,
Speaker 1: and this should seem pretty obvious that black tea does
Speaker 1: go through the oxidation phase and is therefore fully oxidized. Uh.
Speaker 1: Yet that is why it is this black or red color. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And to and to pick up on and clarify something
Speaker 1: you said a minute ago. Heating, I think is usually
Speaker 1: specifically used to stop the oxidation process. So if you
Speaker 1: want a green tea that has a nice fresh, sort
Speaker 1: of grassy vegetable flavor and keeps its green color, those
Speaker 1: are usually going to be heated earlier to stop the
Speaker 1: oxidation from progressing any further, whereas a black tea you
Speaker 1: would let go through way more oxidation before heating it
Speaker 1: in uh, in a little oven. Now, just this is
Speaker 1: a cultivation note, but I ended up throwing it in
Speaker 1: my notes here, so I'm gonna read it before I
Speaker 1: forget about it. Um. Originally tea trees were, of course wild,
Speaker 1: and they would grow in the wild, and they grew
Speaker 1: quite tall. Uh. The higher leaves were obtained by simply
Speaker 1: cutting down the tree. Uh. This wouldn't work long term,
Speaker 1: of course, and so with cultivation comes the pruning and
Speaker 1: the non lethal harvesting of the leaves. So I just
Speaker 1: found that interesting. Okay, So that's why you get this
Speaker 1: process of like taking the flushes off of the top
Speaker 1: instead of fully culling the plant. Yeah, but back to
Speaker 1: the process. Okay, so we've had we we've had the
Speaker 1: first step here of withering, than rolling, than oxidation, and
Speaker 1: then we get into the step of drying. This is
Speaker 1: a quick drying to stop the oxidation of desired levels,
Speaker 1: So we've kind of alluded to this already as well
Speaker 1: as to remove enough moisture to prevent mold from forming.
Speaker 1: But you also can't dry it out too much or
Speaker 1: the tea could again taste burnt or on the other
Speaker 1: end of the spectrum, you could lose its flavor, all right,
Speaker 1: And then with the fourth step done, we're under the fifth,
Speaker 1: and this is grating and sorting. Basically, what you're left with.
Speaker 1: You've got to figure out what you've got, and generally
Speaker 1: what you have is you have whole leaves, you have
Speaker 1: broken leaves, you have you have the dinnings, and you
Speaker 1: have dust. Whole is the best, that's the highest quality
Speaker 1: while um and then then the broken leaves, and then
Speaker 1: fannings and dust that tends to go into cheaper things
Speaker 1: like you know, tea bags and so forth. Again, not
Speaker 1: all teas go through all of these phases. Black tea
Speaker 1: goes through all five. Oolong tea is partially oxidized. Green
Speaker 1: teas are dried after rolling to prevent oxidation at all.
Speaker 1: White tea doesn't go through withering, fermentation or rolling. Now,
Speaker 1: this doesn't cover anywhere near all the teas out there
Speaker 1: in the different types of tease. There are plenty of
Speaker 1: sub varieties of each, and then there are blends as well,
Speaker 1: Like one common example is English Breakfast Tea, which is
Speaker 1: a blend of black teas. Thank thank Now there's a
Speaker 1: whole other class of complex chemical reactions that tease undergo,
Speaker 1: separate from the baseline oxidation process we've been talking about,
Speaker 1: which is fermentation, a whole other thing where you are
Speaker 1: deliberately introducing microbial growth to further create complex flavors and aromas.
Speaker 1: That's right, And at this point, I want to mention
Speaker 1: the puerities. Um, these are a special case. These are
Speaker 1: again one of my favorite tea varieties. And actually our
Speaker 1: producer j J I was chatting with him he also
Speaker 1: really likes these. Uh, and I imagine we have a
Speaker 1: number of listeners who are fond of these as well.
Speaker 1: But these are fermented teas, right, yeah, it's um. So
Speaker 1: these teas are generally made from larger, older leaves that
Speaker 1: I believe Martin described as almost being kind of like hairy,
Speaker 1: you know, they're they're they're they're really big old leaves. Um.
Speaker 1: And also there's an enough moisture is allowed to remain
Speaker 1: in them so that they can continue to ferment for years. Uh.
Speaker 1: This is this is the only variety of tea that
Speaker 1: improves with age. Uh. The tea stored away in bricks
Speaker 1: or cakes. Also, they're often various wrappings, like sometimes it's
Speaker 1: like a like a bamboo type in situation, or some
Speaker 1: sort of fabric wrapping, and and ends up with just
Speaker 1: a wide beret of flavors that are, at least in
Speaker 1: my experience, unlike any other tease I've tried. Uh, they
Speaker 1: often have the ones I've I've keep coming back to
Speaker 1: have kind of often kind of like a barnyard flavor,
Speaker 1: kind of straw or hay to them. Um. One of
Speaker 1: them that I really love is just especially dark. It's
Speaker 1: like it's like a bowl or a cup of midnight.
Speaker 1: And like I said, they're often you'll often you'll find
Speaker 1: these in kind of like a loose leaf situation, but
Speaker 1: you also find them in a little pucks, little bricks,
Speaker 1: big cakes that you have to chip away with a
Speaker 1: special little ornate knife. I mean you could use a
Speaker 1: normal butter knife or your car keys, I guess, but
Speaker 1: you know, get into it. This is tea we're talking about. UM.
Speaker 1: But these have a fascinating history, not only is just
Speaker 1: being tea bricks, but being used as money as well,
Speaker 1: with the prime example being uh taking place in Tibet.
Speaker 1: As Wolfgang Birch points out in the use of tea
Speaker 1: bricks as currency among the Tibetans in the Tibet Journal,
Speaker 1: the Chinese introduced tea to Tibet sometime prior to seven
Speaker 1: eight c E. And while it was first used as
Speaker 1: more of a pure bartering commodity, uh, you know, I'll
Speaker 1: trade you a brick of tea for this, that or
Speaker 1: the other, it eventually took on a form that we
Speaker 1: might reasonably refer to as currency, a regimented system of
Speaker 1: tea bricks based on the tease quality and pureness, and
Speaker 1: eventually imprinted with trademarks and seals. So you might think
Speaker 1: of it almost like you know, you think of like
Speaker 1: a bar of gold that has been imprinted with governmental information,
Speaker 1: like here's the seal of the of the governing body
Speaker 1: saying like this is an approved grade of gold, the
Speaker 1: amount of gold, etcetera. It's the exact same thing with
Speaker 1: these tea bricks. Uh. The the governing authority has said
Speaker 1: this is such and such tea of such and such quality,
Speaker 1: and it is a certain amount of it. Uh, it's
Speaker 1: usable as currency in this scenario. That's interesting and it
Speaker 1: makes me think, I don't know this, but I'm wondering.
Speaker 1: So in this case, would this have been a fermented
Speaker 1: type of tea since its int form? That makes me
Speaker 1: think about how, you know, if you're going to try
Speaker 1: to use a commonly consumed save food or drink item
Speaker 1: as a currency, it would be difficult to use one
Speaker 1: that quickly degrades in quality for like its use value.
Speaker 1: So if it's something where freshness really matters, you would
Speaker 1: not want the use value of your currency to degrade
Speaker 1: fast over the course of a few months. But if
Speaker 1: it's like a fermented tea, you mentioned that these get
Speaker 1: better with age rather than rather than declining, so you
Speaker 1: can at least hope your currency there keeps its value.
Speaker 1: Is it Does that make sense? Yeah? Yeah, it would
Speaker 1: keep its value. Of anything, it would increase in value,
Speaker 1: though I don't remember reading anything about how that would
Speaker 1: be decided upon, like but but I guess it would
Speaker 1: be subject to to like the going rate for tease
Speaker 1: of the particular harvest and um and maturity level, you know,
Speaker 1: like you all the information would be there on the seal.
Speaker 1: This is a side note. I wonder how economies are
Speaker 1: different when they have a currency that does have in
Speaker 1: in some cases a use value of its own, like
Speaker 1: you know, if you're not going to use it for trade,
Speaker 1: you would use it for something else, like you would
Speaker 1: literally eat it or drink it, versus economies that just
Speaker 1: have a currency that is purely useless on its own,
Speaker 1: it's only for facilitating trade, like like U S dollars. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean for gold, I guess is not quite an
Speaker 1: example of that, because even historically gold was still desired
Speaker 1: as something that could be used for ornamentation, whereas today
Speaker 1: it also has um technolog electronics uses as well. Um.
Speaker 1: I think the other really good example of this is
Speaker 1: the the the the use of chocolate in some um
Speaker 1: Mesoamerican cultures, where the chocolate was such a highly regarded
Speaker 1: commodity and and one that I guess had kind of
Speaker 1: generalized sizes and measurements that it could be used as
Speaker 1: currency as well. Yeah. Interesting question. Maybe we'll come back
Speaker 1: to that one day. Yeah, so at this point that
Speaker 1: we might get more into the timeline of tea with
Speaker 1: the primary interest in sort of the evolution of the
Speaker 1: way that it is prepared and and ultimately consumed. As
Speaker 1: we explored in the last episode, the origin of tea
Speaker 1: drinking is more mythology than historical fact. It's one of
Speaker 1: those things where if you if you try and answer
Speaker 1: the question of like, well, who invented te who came
Speaker 1: up with this? Uh, it's basically lost to two prehistory.
Speaker 1: These are things where we have some interesting myths that
Speaker 1: kind of sum up some of the general ideas and
Speaker 1: and ultimately some of the general realities of how human
Speaker 1: beings experimented with and chronicled the nature of their botanical world.
Speaker 1: But in general we can't answer there. There's no one
Speaker 1: person um though again, some of some of these accounts
Speaker 1: do have a sort of an interesting shred of truth
Speaker 1: to them, like one of the ones that, in addition
Speaker 1: to the ones we discussed in the last episode, there's
Speaker 1: one that Michael d. Co brings up in seventy grade
Speaker 1: Inventions of the Ancient World, Uh, in a chapter about
Speaker 1: I Believe chocolate and tea. UH. There's another myth where
Speaker 1: a past Chinese emperor was boiling some water and some
Speaker 1: wild leaves just kind of blew into his water boiling
Speaker 1: in the pot. Thus creating tea that of course sounds
Speaker 1: like pure myth and is not like a real story,
Speaker 1: But it reminds me of our episode and the invention
Speaker 1: of the cauldron, and about how like a cauldron or
Speaker 1: any kind of container, even like a skin of boiling water,
Speaker 1: like what an essential laboratory that is for humans in
Speaker 1: in ancient times, figuring out what things are and what
Speaker 1: they can be used for. Now, the question that may
Speaker 1: come up for some of you might think, well, there's
Speaker 1: a great deal of Chinese literature out there going back
Speaker 1: quite a ways. Can't we just see when people first
Speaker 1: started writing about t uh And I think this is
Speaker 1: a reasonable question to ask. But as Martin explains in
Speaker 1: the book, it's it's not quite that simple. And part
Speaker 1: of the problem is that the Chinese character um associated
Speaker 1: with t was previously used again in literature in writing
Speaker 1: to refer to other shrubs and plants. For example, there
Speaker 1: are mentions of of t dating back to the fifth
Speaker 1: century b C. But it's thought that the character in
Speaker 1: question here is just referring to south thistle, a plant
Speaker 1: sometimes used in Chinese cuisine and native to Europe and
Speaker 1: Western Asia. Okay, so that's frustrating trying to understand the history. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so we we have to think about the fact that
Speaker 1: anytime something like this comes along, like it's not just oh, well,
Speaker 1: we have this new thing, let's get a new word
Speaker 1: for it that's in any language. That's not necessarily how
Speaker 1: it works. I'm reminded of all the different apples that
Speaker 1: that Europeans began to discover in the world and from
Speaker 1: port back, yeah, palm to tear m hm. So again,
Speaker 1: we can't pinpoint a time when tea drinking began in China,
Speaker 1: but we can likely say it was certainly a thing
Speaker 1: by the Hun dynasty two oh six BC through UH.
Speaker 1: I'm granted that's a large period of time, but by
Speaker 1: by that period people were drinking tea. It most likely
Speaker 1: began in Sichuan Province in southwestern China and spread gradually
Speaker 1: to the rest of China and would have reached northern
Speaker 1: China by the Tang dynasty UH that period six eighteen
Speaker 1: through nine seven. By the third century, though, according to Martin,
Speaker 1: we we do have mentioned in the literature of tea
Speaker 1: that we can more firmly connect actual tea drinking, which
Speaker 1: points out that Hatwo and noted physician who may have
Speaker 1: also developed one of the earliest forms of anesthesia. Also
Speaker 1: wrote about tea quote, to drink tea constantly makes one
Speaker 1: think better. That checks out. M Well, it depends on
Speaker 1: what you mean by constantly. Yeah, I'm not sure about
Speaker 1: the particulars of the translation. There. By the way, the
Speaker 1: the anesthesia that he supposedly invented, I think they was
Speaker 1: reading that the name literally transplates to cannabis boiling powder,
Speaker 1: but we still don't know exactly what this supposed anesthesia contained. Also,
Speaker 1: a general from the third century lu Kun wrote that
Speaker 1: he felt old, depressed and needed some real tea. And
Speaker 1: just the impression here that he's out out doing the
Speaker 1: military thing and he just realizes, Man, I'm I'm just
Speaker 1: I'm old, I'm sad, and I would just kill for
Speaker 1: an actual cup of tea instead of I guess boiling
Speaker 1: various other things that we're finding in the nature around us,
Speaker 1: So you could have you could have fake teas. There's like,
Speaker 1: if you can't get real tea from Camillius and instus,
Speaker 1: you might just try boiling other plant matter. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: the history of of tea is kind of full of
Speaker 1: these examples. Uh, and not not only the history of tea,
Speaker 1: but I guess the the history of of like pharmacology
Speaker 1: and no pharmacology in general. I think we've touched a
Speaker 1: little bit on this before talking about psychedelics, where you'll
Speaker 1: have some historians think you'll have one particular custom of
Speaker 1: using a particular um herb or plant that is growing
Speaker 1: in the natural environment. But what happens when people move?
Speaker 1: What happens when there is a migration. Yes, in many
Speaker 1: cases you can bring your plants with you. Uh, sometimes
Speaker 1: those plants don't survive though, Sometimes they can't be brought anyway,
Speaker 1: or you just so that the people that bring them
Speaker 1: are not able to keep those plants going in these
Speaker 1: new places they moved to. And in those cases you
Speaker 1: might try to find some sort of reasonable fac similar
Speaker 1: like what's something else that does something that changes me
Speaker 1: a little bit when I boil it in water and drinking.
Speaker 1: So we may come back to some of that in
Speaker 1: a bit. And then Martin also points it by let's say,
Speaker 1: around three fifty c E there's a more detailed description
Speaker 1: of the tea plant that we seem pretty sure is
Speaker 1: an actual description of off tea, and this is provided
Speaker 1: by Gopu. Again around three fifty s. Thank thank Now,
Speaker 1: I guess one thing I wonder is, um, it's one
Speaker 1: thing to talk about, Okay, we're taking leaves of this
Speaker 1: specific plant and and boiling them to make tea, But
Speaker 1: it's another thing to think about, like all of the
Speaker 1: complex preparation process steps and and the different varieties of
Speaker 1: tea produced today. Do you have any idea when that
Speaker 1: sort of thing started to come online, or at least
Speaker 1: when we have the earliest evidence of that. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is this is interesting because one thing that that Martin
Speaker 1: points out is that early on tea was probably not good.
Speaker 1: It's not would have been nothing like what we're having today.
Speaker 1: It would have been we can almost think of it
Speaker 1: more as kind of this herbal soup, and you'd have
Speaker 1: various things added to it in an attempt to improve
Speaker 1: the flavor profile. And and you might be thinking, oh,
Speaker 1: like delightful flowers and stuff. No things like onions might
Speaker 1: be added. Is just a way to improve the flavor.
Speaker 1: And I believe in Martin, I believe mentioned that this
Speaker 1: probably also didn't work. It was just so strong a
Speaker 1: flavor you couldn't really improve on it all that much.
Speaker 1: But you drank it because, uh, you know it was
Speaker 1: there were already something like helpful um associations with it,
Speaker 1: and you know, and maybe it wasn't making it was
Speaker 1: sick because it was boiled, et cetera. But during the
Speaker 1: time of the Northern Way Dynasty three eighties six through CE,
Speaker 1: apparently that the tea processing had improved, at least to
Speaker 1: what we might think of as a basic level. There
Speaker 1: mentions of cakes been made of tea leaves that have
Speaker 1: been roasted. It was probably still a lot cruder compared
Speaker 1: to things that we're gonna come or certainly cruder than
Speaker 1: things that you would think of today as a desirable tease.
Speaker 1: But the journey toward more complex flavors was under way,
Speaker 1: and I'm assuming you were maybe not having to put
Speaker 1: onions in your tea anymore now. During the fifth century,
Speaker 1: see there's also examples of tea tributes being made to
Speaker 1: the imperial court and to the emperor himself. Uh. And
Speaker 1: also the emperor was said to have his own tea
Speaker 1: reserves as well, like these were places where just the
Speaker 1: emperor's tea was grown. So already uh, it was you know,
Speaker 1: presumably flavors are improving, and also the ruling class, the
Speaker 1: elites of society are really getting attached to the idea
Speaker 1: of tea. But then the Tang dynasty six eighteen through
Speaker 1: nine oh seven, this is the period in which we
Speaker 1: see Chinese tea in the form of baked bricks of
Speaker 1: green tea, which are ideal for travel, spreading to new
Speaker 1: parts of the empire and beyond. Martin also writes that
Speaker 1: this widespread technique also greatly improved the flavor um. The
Speaker 1: popularity of tea spread so much during this time that
Speaker 1: it was no longer just a drink of the elite
Speaker 1: of the emperor and his court. It was a drink
Speaker 1: for everybody, even peasants. By this point we're we're getting
Speaker 1: in on tea culture. That doesn't mean everybody would have
Speaker 1: access to the same tea, of course, you're the type
Speaker 1: of tea you drank would would be intrinsically linked to
Speaker 1: your place in society, as would the various paraphernalia that
Speaker 1: were used in tea preparation and tea consumption. But uh,
Speaker 1: it was. It was essentially something that could be found
Speaker 1: throughout society. Um Also, this would again have been exclusively
Speaker 1: green tea, as red black tea would not be developed
Speaker 1: for centuries to come, and this is the time of
Speaker 1: an individual by the name of Lou You. This would
Speaker 1: have been in the eighth century. Uh He was known
Speaker 1: as the Immortal of Tea, the Sage of Tea, and
Speaker 1: he was author of the Classic of Tea, the Classic
Speaker 1: of Tea. I see a similarity in the English naming
Speaker 1: convention of some of these great old Chinese texts, similar
Speaker 1: to like the Classic of Mountains and Seas. Exactly, yes,
Speaker 1: I forget exactly what that is translated from, though, Like
Speaker 1: what what are all the range of meanings in uh
Speaker 1: In in the original? Yeah? Yeah, but it But but
Speaker 1: certainly this is a common translation of some of these
Speaker 1: important books, I would think you could. You might roughly
Speaker 1: think of it the same way that that important books
Speaker 1: might in the Western traditions might be preferred to as
Speaker 1: like the book of such and such or a chronicle
Speaker 1: of such and such. Now this is a This is
Speaker 1: an interesting figure Lou You, though, because there are a
Speaker 1: number of legends about him as well. You know, he's
Speaker 1: definitely a historic individual and author. It seems that folks
Speaker 1: agree on that. But they are all these additional stories, um,
Speaker 1: such as that he was abandoned and subsequently adopted by
Speaker 1: Buddhist monks. Also, there's this other story that he um.
Speaker 1: I think these all kind of work together, or at
Speaker 1: least were eventually stitched together into one narrative that he
Speaker 1: was then trained. He then trained to be a clown
Speaker 1: in the opera, and this was his lifelong ambition, but
Speaker 1: then he ended up coming a scholar instead. Uh. He
Speaker 1: started spending a lot of time in tea houses, which
Speaker 1: was a popular hangout at the time, And this reminds
Speaker 1: me a bit of of accounts of tea and coffee
Speaker 1: houses in later European history as a kind of like
Speaker 1: cultural incubator in a place where like the poet resides. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so he has this this supposed trajectory that's pretty interesting,
Speaker 1: Like he starts off as um as an abandoned child,
Speaker 1: becomes a monk, then becomes a clown, then becomes a scholar,
Speaker 1: and then essentially becomes the immortal of tea. It implies
Speaker 1: tea being kind of like the highest level achievable. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it does, and I think that matches up with the
Speaker 1: way that he was received and regarded. But but it
Speaker 1: goes beyond like you might think, Okay, he wrote this
Speaker 1: scholarly work about tea, and I bet the scholarly class
Speaker 1: really loved it. But as Martin points out, this work
Speaker 1: had a huge impact on tea in society as it
Speaker 1: gave agriculturalists and farmers the first real written account of
Speaker 1: how to cultivate and process tea. Everything before the Classic
Speaker 1: of tea was just orally transmitted or was, you know,
Speaker 1: unknown to individuals who might want to partake of it
Speaker 1: and uh and cultivate their own tea. His work made
Speaker 1: tea cultivation accessible, and it included everything that was known
Speaker 1: at the time about tea, where you could grow it,
Speaker 1: how to grow it, how to harvest it and prepare it,
Speaker 1: the culture of drinking it, the twenty four implements required
Speaker 1: to prepare tea in the home, that sort of thing. Whoa,
Speaker 1: that's a lot of implements, yeah, and and a lot
Speaker 1: of just sort of advice on what is proper like.
Speaker 1: For instance, I was reading in Martin that he he
Speaker 1: was a big fan of using blue glazed cups to
Speaker 1: enhance the green color of the tea, while he thought
Speaker 1: that white cups or bowls would give it a distasteful
Speaker 1: pink color. M hmm. This is interesting in part because
Speaker 1: it reminds me of uh like the passages in Plenty
Speaker 1: of the Elder where he's like, Hey, if you're gonna
Speaker 1: boil like some sweet sappa to drink, you better do
Speaker 1: it in a lead pot instead of a copper one,
Speaker 1: because the copper makes it bitter, the lead makes it sweet.
Speaker 1: I know, I assume he's not talking about actual changes
Speaker 1: in uh flavor here, but truly just appearance. But this
Speaker 1: is also quite observant because uh, I think as like
Speaker 1: chefs and people who work in restaurants will tell you
Speaker 1: the appearance and color of your your plates really does
Speaker 1: affect how people perceive the food. Oh yeah, absolutely. And
Speaker 1: then of course there's so much ritual on on top
Speaker 1: of all of this. Uh you know. Martin stresses that
Speaker 1: while some of this might seem just you know, over
Speaker 1: the top and and and perhaps too fancy, we have
Speaker 1: to remind ourselves that this is a world um where
Speaker 1: individuals like lu you are striving for universal perfection. Uh
Speaker 1: So that's and we have to think about it too
Speaker 1: in light of of Confucianism, Dalism and Buddhism as well,
Speaker 1: which are all important energy in the world surrounding this uh,
Speaker 1: this growing tea culture Now, the popularity of the Classic
Speaker 1: of Tease not only spread the word of tea, it
Speaker 1: also further enhanced its popularity and pushed both greater tea
Speaker 1: trade and greater advancements in how it was cultivated and prepared.
Speaker 1: Tea also spread throughout China during this time because it
Speaker 1: had become just so embraced by Buddhist practice and culture. Um.
Speaker 1: But it's also meant that when Buddhism fell out of
Speaker 1: favor during the decline of the Tang dynasty, tea culture
Speaker 1: did as well. And this would this is a trend
Speaker 1: that would recur when foreign invaders would control parts of China,
Speaker 1: Tea culture would suffer in that area. Interesting, does that
Speaker 1: mean it was replaced by something or I wonder what
Speaker 1: caused that correlation? It's it based on what I was reading.
Speaker 1: And there may be more nuanced to this and more
Speaker 1: more to this, but it would just be a situation
Speaker 1: where uh, it was linked with the with the ruling party.
Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of like a top down um
Speaker 1: cultural um practice and without without t culture emanating from
Speaker 1: uh sort of you know, in radiating waves from the
Speaker 1: ruling body. It kind of falls out of favor and
Speaker 1: you have people maybe falling, and you're gonna have cultural
Speaker 1: trans transmission taking place there too. Of course, because you
Speaker 1: also see in the in the histories where UH, you know,
Speaker 1: some some groups, say the Mongols becomes the ruling body
Speaker 1: in a part of China, they also become more Chinese
Speaker 1: as they rule, So you know, the trans cultural transmission
Speaker 1: goes both ways. But it seems like you would have
Speaker 1: these situations where a foreign power would would take control
Speaker 1: for a while and yet just key popularity would wane.
Speaker 1: But then when inevitably um Chinese rule was restored in
Speaker 1: these areas, you would see the reverse. And one of
Speaker 1: the examples of this would be nine sixty s UH.
Speaker 1: The the the rule of the song honesty brought tea
Speaker 1: back to the forefront. It's trade during this period became
Speaker 1: so important that the Imperial Court found that they could
Speaker 1: just restrict or manipulate the flow of tea two outlying
Speaker 1: regions UM if deemed necessary. So it would would be
Speaker 1: a way to control UH and manipulate other groups, such
Speaker 1: as determining how much tea goes to say to bat door,
Speaker 1: to the Mongols, or to the Turks and others, almost
Speaker 1: kind of like a spice trade. Of dune sort of scenario. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, and certainly that's the sort of thing that
Speaker 1: that Frank Herbert was was thinking of when he was
Speaker 1: writing do maybe not tea specifically, but but obviously this
Speaker 1: control of of a of a desired or vital resource
Speaker 1: by one particular body. Yeah. It's also during this time period,
Speaker 1: Martin rights, that we enter the second school or phase
Speaker 1: of tea. So this first phase had been the brick era.
Speaker 1: Again we're talking about those bricks of tea, you know,
Speaker 1: how it's dried and then often stored, etcetera. But then
Speaker 1: we're entering at this point the whipped school. And it's
Speaker 1: called the whipped school due to the creation and popularity
Speaker 1: of dried and powdered green tea that was then whipped
Speaker 1: in boiling water until it's foamy. This is what we
Speaker 1: typically call mach it ti today, and it was a
Speaker 1: huge hit during this time period. Of course, has remained
Speaker 1: with us. Oh that's interesting, Okay, I guess I do
Speaker 1: associate uh mache ti with looking kind of foamy, but
Speaker 1: I didn't realize why that was. So it's like typically
Speaker 1: more of a powder form that that is whipped into
Speaker 1: the water vigorously yeah, yeah, like generally you'll have and
Speaker 1: we'll we'll probably come back around him to macha here
Speaker 1: in a bit and talk about it in a special
Speaker 1: in relation to Japanese tea culture. But yeah, even if
Speaker 1: you get it today, you're probably gonna get some sort
Speaker 1: of one, one variety or another of macha, perhaps like
Speaker 1: a ceremonial grade tea. You're gonna put that in your
Speaker 1: in your bowl or cup, and once you have the
Speaker 1: hot water, you're gonna you're gonna want to whip it up.
Speaker 1: There's gonna be a special implement do that. And this,
Speaker 1: of course can also be quite exceptional. Okay, so we
Speaker 1: go from brick to the whipped powder and then does
Speaker 1: it does it change after that? Because that still doesn't
Speaker 1: resemble the most of the tea preparation I can think
Speaker 1: of today, which is based on steeping, right right, Well,
Speaker 1: that is going to eventually be the third school, the
Speaker 1: school of steeping, as in like loose leaf tea especially,
Speaker 1: and we are still in this school today, Martin, right. Still,
Speaker 1: of course, all three of these are still used. I
Speaker 1: don't know if there's gonna be a fourth phase of tea.
Speaker 1: I don't know. The laser school of tea. Thank thank
Speaker 1: al Right, there there's more to the history of tea,
Speaker 1: and we'll keep going with the history of tea in
Speaker 1: a future episode here, but I thought it might be
Speaker 1: fun at this point to discuss tea and health. Now.
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier how Martin pointed out that by the
Speaker 1: fourth century, cet consumption was probably part of daily life
Speaker 1: for many in China. But it wasn't good. You were
Speaker 1: having to mask it with things like, you know, sometimes
Speaker 1: things like citrus or ginger, which doesn't sound that bad,
Speaker 1: but other times you're putting salt and onions in it,
Speaker 1: all to try and make it more palpable. But you
Speaker 1: were consuming it because it had perceived health benefits. You
Speaker 1: also might just eat your tea leaves straight like a
Speaker 1: vegetable in this time still, though again it would have
Speaker 1: been bitter. It would not have been a pleasant experience.
Speaker 1: You Also, I was surprised by this. You also might
Speaker 1: have sniffed it like snuff so um. That would be
Speaker 1: a sort of a you know, an approach to powdered
Speaker 1: tea that I didn't think about. Also not what I'm
Speaker 1: saying anyone needs to try, but but it was one
Speaker 1: method that was used as was sometimes using it externally, uh,
Speaker 1: like you know, applying it just to the skin, or
Speaker 1: or perhaps to some sort of skin irritation like a poultice. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So it was widely used during this time, again not
Speaker 1: because it was necessarily pleasant to to have, but first
Speaker 1: of all, it was associated with wakefulness and digestion, which
Speaker 1: I think these are both agreed upon effects of caffeine.
Speaker 1: If you've had caffeine, or or explored caffeine, or even
Speaker 1: been around people that have that use caffeine, you probably
Speaker 1: know that this is the case. Like caffeine can can
Speaker 1: wake you up, it can make you more alert. It
Speaker 1: can also speed up digestion and um. Yeah, and that's
Speaker 1: why if you go to a coffee house or a
Speaker 1: teahouse these days, there may be a weight at the
Speaker 1: bathroom and there may be a lot of people with
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of crackling energy. But it's worth
Speaker 1: it because, as Lou Tong said, what it searches the
Speaker 1: dry rivulets of the soul helps you find the stories
Speaker 1: of five thousand scrolls. Yeah, I'd say that still checks
Speaker 1: out caffeine effects on cognition. Yeah. At the same time,
Speaker 1: though it was also used during this time as a
Speaker 1: treatment for everything from poor eyesight, skin, and oregon issues.
Speaker 1: It was also considered a strong preventative medicine and something
Speaker 1: that positively impacted one's cheese. So we again, so we're
Speaker 1: seeing like the full spectrum here of possible and saved
Speaker 1: uses for tea that benefited your current ailments, preventage other ailments,
Speaker 1: and maybe even affected sort of spiritual energy. Uh, concepts
Speaker 1: regarding the functionality of the human body. Yes, now, uh,
Speaker 1: because we've raised the question in the historical context here
Speaker 1: of beliefs about tea and it's positive impacts on health,
Speaker 1: I think it's worth looking at what some of the
Speaker 1: modern major nutrition science findings on the health effects of
Speaker 1: t R. But strong caveat I'm not going to go
Speaker 1: deep on this because I just feel personally, like you know,
Speaker 1: we look at a lot of different domains of science,
Speaker 1: and I feel like there is no quicker way to
Speaker 1: lose your mind than looking for scientific papers on a
Speaker 1: question of is this common food or drink either good
Speaker 1: or bad for your health? Coffee, tea, chocolate, wine, a
Speaker 1: million other things. It always seems like there are just
Speaker 1: reams of conflicting results, some of which sound prima facy
Speaker 1: absurd and probably are you know, like a study show
Speaker 1: uh wine cure's heart disease or something like that. And
Speaker 1: and I detect the presence of persistent methodological problems with
Speaker 1: attempts to look at this kind of thing specifically, like
Speaker 1: does a common food or drink item that people consume
Speaker 1: for pleasure or for other reasons have uh, you know,
Speaker 1: x broad health effect. But uh, with that caveat, I'm
Speaker 1: going to cite the findings of a major meta analysis
Speaker 1: that I looked at from twenty nineteen. So. This was
Speaker 1: by Mengshi Yi called t Consumption and Health Outcomes Umbrella
Speaker 1: Review of Meta Analyzes of observational studies and Humans. This
Speaker 1: was published in the journal Molecular Nutrition and Food Research
Speaker 1: and twenty nineteen. Uh So, this study is an umbrella
Speaker 1: review also known as a review of reviews, which kind
Speaker 1: of gives you an idea how much research there is
Speaker 1: on the topic, so to picture where this rests in
Speaker 1: the research hierarchy. Of course, you can have individual studies
Speaker 1: or experiments on uh, you know, the effect of TE
Speaker 1: on some particular outcome, and then you can have a
Speaker 1: paper a level above that, which is a review or
Speaker 1: a meta analysis which compares and analyzes and usually averages
Speaker 1: the results of many different individual studies of a bunch
Speaker 1: of you know, it collects everything it can find in
Speaker 1: the literature and says, when you compare all these what
Speaker 1: results poke out? And then if you have enough of
Speaker 1: those reviews within a subject area, you can have an
Speaker 1: umbrella review, which is a review of reviews. And sometimes
Speaker 1: umbrella reviews are going to have like a broader question. So,
Speaker 1: for example, you can have a meta analysis of studies
Speaker 1: on the relationship between tea and cardiovascular disease, and another
Speaker 1: one comparing studies on T and various cancers, and then
Speaker 1: you can maybe have an umbrella review looking at all
Speaker 1: those meta analyzes to understand the relationship between tea and
Speaker 1: health outcomes more generally. Okay, so sorry about all that preamble,
Speaker 1: But anyway, what did this umbrella review find in the
Speaker 1: existing literature as of twenty nineteen. Well, it looked at
Speaker 1: nine si AT analyzes addressing forty different health outcomes, and
Speaker 1: it concluded that overall, studies showed greater evidence for health
Speaker 1: benefits than for harm to health from T consumption. So, uh,
Speaker 1: they say, quote dose response analysis of T consumption indicates
Speaker 1: reduced risks of total mortality, cardiac death, coronary artery disease, stroke,
Speaker 1: and type two diabetes melitas with increment of two to
Speaker 1: three cups per day. Beneficial associations are also found for
Speaker 1: several cancers, skeletal, cognitive, and maternal outcomes. Harmful associations are
Speaker 1: found for esophageal cancer and gastric cancer when the temperature
Speaker 1: of intake is more than fifty five to sixty degrees celsius.
Speaker 1: Uh So. This leads them to the conclusion that except
Speaker 1: for the upper digestive cancer risk that may be associated
Speaker 1: with drinking very hot tea and again greater than fifty
Speaker 1: five to sixty degrees c is about one thirty one
Speaker 1: to one forty degrees fahrenheit. Unless you're drinking tea that
Speaker 1: hot or hotter. Normal levels of tea consumptions, such as
Speaker 1: two to three cups per day, appear safe, and those
Speaker 1: levels of tea and take are even associated with a
Speaker 1: broad range of apparently positive health effects. The ones I
Speaker 1: mentioned a minute ago, however, this is a very important
Speaker 1: thing to stress. They acknowledge the difficulty in disentangling regular
Speaker 1: dietary t consumption from possible confounding variables, and so they
Speaker 1: argue that to really conclude that the observed associations or causal,
Speaker 1: so you know, for example, finding that uh T consumption
Speaker 1: of two to three cups per day might be associated
Speaker 1: with like reduced risk of cardiac death or something like that.
Speaker 1: In order to really be sure that that that the
Speaker 1: T is the cause of that and not just some
Speaker 1: random association, you would need to do randomized control trials.
Speaker 1: And this is often true. I think when you're looking
Speaker 1: at connections between like common food or drink items and
Speaker 1: health outcomes, you might find that any random thing, people
Speaker 1: who eat kelp on a regular basis have a lower
Speaker 1: risk of pancreatic cancer, But that doesn't actually show that
Speaker 1: it's the kelp that makes the difference. It could be
Speaker 1: that people who have a lower risk of that cancer
Speaker 1: also for some reason, just happen to eat more kelp.
Speaker 1: And the best way to establish the kelp is the
Speaker 1: cause would again be to do a randomized controlled trial,
Speaker 1: which is the gold standard used for testing new drugs
Speaker 1: and so forth, uh but not always used to examine
Speaker 1: the health effects of common food and drink items such
Speaker 1: as coffee, chocolate, tea, all these things that you see
Speaker 1: a million conflicting study results on you know, uh T
Speaker 1: helps this health effect, and then another study says maybe
Speaker 1: it doesn't. So in the end, I think it's hard
Speaker 1: to get very uh solid results on on these kind
Speaker 1: of food and drink items. But at least the existing
Speaker 1: research today makes it look like broadly tea is pretty
Speaker 1: safe to drink as long as you're drinking it within
Speaker 1: moderation and not super hot and uh and may in
Speaker 1: fact have some positive health benefits associated with it, but
Speaker 1: don't bank on those too much. M hm, Well, these
Speaker 1: are all great points. Like depending on the study, you
Speaker 1: might be it might be a situation where it's the
Speaker 1: tea cakes that are causing all of the positive health effects, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it may not be causal about drinking the tea at all.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's that people who have lower risk of whatever
Speaker 1: are also just for some reason cultural or otherwise more
Speaker 1: likely to drink tea. Or it could be that the
Speaker 1: act of sitting down and drinking something warm from a cup.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what all they compared it to,
Speaker 1: what controls they used on all these different experiments, because
Speaker 1: there have been a lot of them. But that's where
Speaker 1: the research show looks like it lands today. But but
Speaker 1: I did want to note that positive health effects of
Speaker 1: tea could exist and might also be construed, not in
Speaker 1: an absolute sense, but in the sense of comparing tea
Speaker 1: to alternatives, to other things you could consume instead of tea. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And in this I want to turn to a quote
Speaker 1: from the herbal classic that I think we referenced this
Speaker 1: work in the last episode. It is attributed to Shinnong
Speaker 1: again and the divine farmer with the crystal uh stomach Uh.
Speaker 1: That is one in some of the myths is attributed
Speaker 1: as discovering tea, and the quote reasons follows in translation,
Speaker 1: quote Tea is better than wine, for it leadeth not
Speaker 1: to intoxication, neither does it cause a man to say
Speaker 1: foolish things and repent thereof in his sober moments. It
Speaker 1: is better than water, for it does not carry disease.
Speaker 1: Neither does it act like poison as water does when
Speaker 1: it contains foul and rotten matter. Hey, that's the couple
Speaker 1: of I would say, quite solid observations. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I think it's fair to agree that the
Speaker 1: over indulgence of tea is less of a public or
Speaker 1: health or safety issue compared to the consumption of alcohol. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then, as Martin points out and in her book,
Speaker 1: this last bit is also certainly true. T prepared with
Speaker 1: boiling water would rid the water of many of the
Speaker 1: inherent pathogens. So if you're just looking at the difference
Speaker 1: between having a hot cup of tea and drinking lane
Speaker 1: or rain water or something um or or any kind
Speaker 1: of water that might be on hand for pure drinking purposes,
Speaker 1: the tea is a healthier choice historically speaking, that seems
Speaker 1: quite true as long as people are, of course not
Speaker 1: consuming that seventh cup of tea and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: rapturing themselves to the Holy Mountain. Right, Yeah, you don't
Speaker 1: want to accidentally fly to pung Li before you get
Speaker 1: to work in the morning. Right And and yet to
Speaker 1: your point, just the the idea of your drinking tea,
Speaker 1: then what are you not drinking If you're not drinking alcohol,
Speaker 1: you're not drinking wine, you're not drinking water, that may,
Speaker 1: you know, given the circumstances, might not be the purest
Speaker 1: or the healthiest choice at that time. Uh yeah, this
Speaker 1: is all fascinating. I think that's going to do it
Speaker 1: for part two, right, Yeah, I think this is all
Speaker 1: we have time for in this episode, but we'll come
Speaker 1: back for a part three. We're gonna look a little
Speaker 1: more at the history and evolution of tea and possibly
Speaker 1: going into some other tea cultures as well, and we'll
Speaker 1: see what else comes up. In the meantime. We'd love
Speaker 1: to hear from everyone out there, because I know we
Speaker 1: have a lot of tea drinkers out there, tea drinkers
Speaker 1: from different parts of the world, different tastes, different experiences.
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