1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: The immortal Dan Chew abandoned eating jade elixirs, picking tea instead. 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: He drank and grew feathered wings. The world is unaware 3 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: of the mansion of imminent and hidden immortals. People do 4 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: not know of the palace of transmuting bone into clouds. 5 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: The lad of Cloudy Mountain blended it in a gold cauldron. 6 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,159 Speaker 1: How hollow the fame of the Man of Chew and 7 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: his book of Tea. Late on a frosty night, breaking 8 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: cakes off fragrant tea brood to overflowing of the pale 9 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: yellow frock. I sip and am reborn, Bestowed by the gentleman. 10 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: This tea dispels my suffering, cleansing my mind from worry 11 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: and fear, come mourning. The emotions of the fragrant brazier 12 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: remain intoxicated. Still we walk across the clouds reflected in 13 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: tiger stream in high song, I send the gentleman off 14 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: well to stuff to blow your mind. Production of my 15 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, you welcome to stuff to blow your mind. 16 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. That 17 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: is from a song of Drinking Tea On the departure 18 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: of zing wrong by Jao Ran. This particular bit of 19 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: Chinese poetry UM, I came across when I was reading 20 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: a blog post four ancient Chinese poems on t in 21 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: one symphony. This was on the website Tranquility Tuesdays, and 22 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 1: I found this one interesting because the the author of 23 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: this piece pointed out that the piece that we opened 24 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: the first episode off with the seven bowls of tea 25 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: is just very well sided. You'll find it referenced in 26 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: just about any history of tea. Uh, it's it frequently 27 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: shows up on tea blogs and so forth. The author 28 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: here noted that, you know, given that it is you 29 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: know overm cited, uh, that one should also include other 30 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: poems of note, and this is one such poem well 31 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: so in the original poem, I'd say the major theme 32 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: was sort of the mounting levels of of experience that 33 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: come with each successive cup of tea up until you 34 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: hit the danger zone, crossing the threshold from the sixth 35 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: to the dreaded seventh cup. In this case, what what 36 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 1: would you say? The main themes are I see here 37 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: um kind of a kind of a community or a 38 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 1: filial aspect to to the tea talking about you know, 39 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: the lab bruise it, and then these two drink it together, 40 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: though I'm not sure exactly who these two people are 41 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: supposed to be. Yeah, there's definitely more of an earth 42 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: bound since here I'm getting you know. It is of 43 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: course beautifully written and has that kind of ethereal quality 44 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 1: to it as well. But the Tea is not just 45 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: taking you and transforming you and into into an immortal 46 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: and sending you to a mythical land. Uh, It's it's 47 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: making you feel reborn, but also all of the world 48 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: as well, or at least that's my interpretation of it. 49 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: So anyway, Yeah, this is part two of our look 50 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: at T're we're already hearing from some folks regarding our 51 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 1: first episode, and in the second episode we're gonna continue 52 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: the journey. So go back and listen to part one 53 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: if you haven't heard it yet, because in that last 54 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 1: episode we discussed the botanical facts concerning T as well 55 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,839 Speaker 1: as some myths about its origin. But now that we've 56 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: established what T is and where it's spring from and 57 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: reference some of the mythological ideas about te and read 58 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: a couple of poems. Uh. This most recent was the 59 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: most tank dynasty by the way. Um. At this point, 60 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: I think it's time to discuss the history of t 61 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,119 Speaker 1: uh in a little more detail, especially as it concerns 62 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: the ways that it can be prepared and was prepared 63 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: across time. So I think that it makes sense, first 64 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: of all, to just look at some of the steps 65 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: that are frequently employed in preparing tea uh in uh 66 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: you know, after it's been harvest what happens between it 67 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: growing on the plant that we discussed in part one 68 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: and somehow making it into a cup or bowl of 69 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: tea the beverage, right, and so one thing we talked 70 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: about in the previous episode is how different types of 71 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: tea that you get, say black tea versus green tea 72 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: versus wide or oolong, they will usually be from the 73 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: same plant or the same of a couple of variants 74 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: of this plant Camellia sinensis. There there's one t plant, 75 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: and so the differences you get in the different tea 76 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: s are based on how it is processed and prepared, 77 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: right right. So um. One of the books that I've 78 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: been looking at here is Laura C. Martin's A History 79 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: of Tea, and I think the author here does a 80 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: fabulous job laying out the history and and also the 81 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: different steps involved in creating these beverages of tea. She 82 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: points out that no matter what sort of tea preparation 83 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: you're talking about, certain steps are common, too many of them. 84 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: Not all varieties of tea involve all the steps, but 85 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 1: it's worth going over them all and then we can say, well, 86 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: this one doesn't involve this step, and this one does 87 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: involve this step. Okay. So it starts, of course, with 88 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: the gathering of the leaves. Usually on tea farms, they 89 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: will be collected as flushes, these sort of top buds 90 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: of a couple of leaves and a shoot coming off 91 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: the top of the plant. Uh. Those will be harvested 92 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: and the rest of the plan will be left there 93 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 1: to produce new flushes in the future. And so you 94 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: gather a bunch of these flushes of leaves, and then 95 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: what do you do with them? Yeah, you could, I guess, 96 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: just stick them in your mouth. But here's the thing. 97 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: If you do that, and certainly we have some of 98 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: these tales of some of these mythical origins of tea 99 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: saying that's what happened. People stuck it in their mouth, 100 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: and and you know that might well be connected to 101 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: some of the original ways that that human beings explore 102 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: the natures of the tea plant leaves and even gain 103 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: some of the effects. But if you just stick them 104 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: in your mouth and start chewing, it's going to be 105 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: really bitter. So this is at this point we have 106 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: the first step of withering. So the freat green leaves 107 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: and buds are dried out, either in a heated room 108 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: of some sort or they're left in the sun, and 109 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: this causes the starch and the leaves to begin transforming 110 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: into sugar and the moisture content drops by, and this 111 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: allows the next possible step to take place, which is 112 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: the rolling of the tea leaves and then be able 113 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: to roll it without breaking the leaves. Um. This is 114 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: something you might have to think back to your childhood 115 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: days of like playing with leaves and sticks. But sometimes 116 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: if a leaf is fresh and you go to like 117 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: roll it up, it's going to it's gonna break, m 118 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: all right. The rolling hard here is often done via 119 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: machines today but is historically done by hand, and the 120 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: rolling without breaking here twists and crushes the leaves in 121 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: a way that releases sap, exposes it to oxygen, and 122 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: stimulates fermentation. Additional rolling and or sifting may take place 123 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: here as well, so that's step two. Now. One reason 124 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: you might be roll ling or or sort of bruising 125 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 1: these leaves in some way and essentially handling them roughly 126 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: is in order to stimulate oxidation. Oxidation in general refers 127 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: to a broad class of chemical reactions that take place 128 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: when molecules are exposed to oxygen or another oxidizing agent. 129 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: And a core feature of an oxidation reaction is that 130 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: the molecules that are getting oxidized are losing electrons, but 131 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: that doesn't tell us much. It's usually it's some type 132 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: of chemical reaction. Now, it's interesting that the deliberate oxidation 133 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: of tea leaves is an important stage, and they're processing 134 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: especially for producing darker tease, not less so for greener teas, 135 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: because most often oxidation in foods is not something you want. 136 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: It's an undesirable outcome associated with spoilage and rancidity. So 137 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: some examples, and I guess these would be the closest 138 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: analogies their oxidation reactions of various types, Like there's oxidation 139 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: of of ats and so forth in in oils. But 140 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: for an analogy in plants. Think about when you cut 141 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: an apple. So you cut an apple in half and 142 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: you leave it out on the counter, what happens brown right, Uh? 143 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: And this browning is not generally considered good. It's not 144 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: something that makes the apple harmful to eat, but most 145 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: of the time people don't find it very appetizing. It 146 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: changes the appearance and sometimes the flavor and texture as well. 147 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, taste can vary, but most people 148 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: would not say that is a type of browning that 149 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 1: they seek out on purpose. And this is actually true 150 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: of many foods, especially fruits. So you can think of 151 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: the way avocados brown wants they're cut or smashed and 152 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: left out on the counter, or or potatoes or any 153 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: number of other plant based foods. The chemical reaction taking 154 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: place here is a form of oxidation called in sematic browning, 155 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: and in sematic browning is due to an enzyme called 156 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: polyphenol oxidase. Fruits and vegetables have compounds in them called 157 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: phenol compounds, and when these compounds get exposed to both 158 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: oxygen and to that enzyme to polyphenol oxidase at the 159 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: same time, they react with the oxygen and go through 160 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: a multi step transformation process that ends with them turning 161 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: into melanin. Melanin is a natural brown pigment that you 162 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: can find in all forms of life. It's in plants, 163 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: it's in fungi, it's in animals including us. It's the 164 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 1: brown pigment in human hair and skin and inner irises. 165 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: And so that process naturally takes place once once you 166 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: cut an apple or a banana or any any of 167 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 1: these foods. But how come this chemical reaction turning phenolic 168 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: compounds into melanin doesn't happen once they when the apple 169 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: is just like sitting there on the counter uncut. How 170 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: come it only happens once you cut it. This is 171 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: because in order for the reaction to happen, we need 172 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: three different substances to come into contact with one another. 173 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: So you need the phenolic compounds the base molecules were transforming. 174 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: You need the enzyme, which in this case is polyphenol oxidase, 175 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: and you need the free oxygen in the air. And 176 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: when all three elements are present there together, then you 177 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: get this browning process. So in plant tissue, the enzyme, 178 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: the polyphenol oxidase, and the phenolic compounds are usually kept 179 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: separate from one another. But damage to the plant, such 180 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: as cutting it open or bashing it and bruising it 181 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: will rupture cells and cause these chemicals to blend together 182 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 1: in unite, and then you expose them to air and 183 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: the oxidation happens. Now, coming back to what I said earlier, 184 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: in somatic browning is considered undesirable in lots of foods 185 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: like uh, you know you do you, But most people 186 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: would rather eat their apple slices, bananas, avocados, and so 187 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: forth before they sit out on the counter for a 188 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: few hours and turn brown. The browned versions of these 189 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: plants kind of look and taste degraded, not exactly fresh. 190 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: But in other plants, the brown unning process has a 191 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: desirable outcome. It is used on purpose to achieve desirable 192 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:11,079 Speaker 1: improvements in appearance, texture, and flavor. One example would be 193 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: in certain dried fruits like raisins go through enzymatic browning 194 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 1: it deliberately in order to create new and interesting flavors 195 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,199 Speaker 1: that people like. And another example might be in seeds 196 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: or leaves used to bruce strongly flavored caffeinated beverages. Oxidative 197 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: browning is specifically sought out as part of the preparation 198 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 1: process for tea leaves. So you can think about the 199 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: process of say, rolling tea leaves around, like smashing them 200 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: or rolling them in a in a tumbler of some 201 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: kind in order to kind of like bruise and uh, 202 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: and just rough up the leaves to get these get 203 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: these different compounds coming together and expose them to oxygen 204 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: to to trigger this browning process. Yeah. I like to 205 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: come back to the apple example, the apple that that's spilled, 206 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: it falls out of the bowl and falls off the 207 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: owner and rolls across the floor. Uh. You know that's 208 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: the one that gets all bruised up, and those bruises 209 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: are brown. That's the oxidation taking place. Yeah, exactly. And 210 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: again you know you don't usually want that in an apple, 211 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: but it turns out you do it to a tea leaf, 212 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: and oh it's producing all these nice, interesting new aromas 213 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: and flavors. It's making the tea taste. I think a 214 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: lot of tea producers would say it makes it. It 215 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: sort of takes away some of the fresh, grassy flavor 216 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: of green tea and introduces these complex sweet flavors that 217 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: taste more like a floral aromas or like fruits. Yeah, 218 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,319 Speaker 1: it creates this this whole additional dimension of flavor. Now, 219 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:40,959 Speaker 1: this this stage of oxidation here, Martin stresses that it's 220 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: it's super important for determining the flavor destination of the tea. 221 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: It typically takes about three hours. Uh. If it is done, 222 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,839 Speaker 1: the leaves are left on trays and a cool, damp 223 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: place often and the oxidation causes them to turn from 224 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: green to kind of a copper color. Uh. They also 225 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: heat up during this phase. And you also and you 226 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: have to depending on exactly what you're doing with the 227 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: tea leaves, you may have to halt it as well, 228 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: because you don't want the oxidation to go too far, 229 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 1: because then you'll end up with what's described as kind 230 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: of a burnt taste. It's also really important to note 231 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: here that not all teas go through this phase. Um, 232 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 1: and this should seem pretty obvious that black tea does 233 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: go through the oxidation phase and is therefore fully oxidized. Uh. 234 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: Yet that is why it is this black or red color. Yeah. 235 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: And to and to pick up on and clarify something 236 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:32,959 Speaker 1: you said a minute ago. Heating, I think is usually 237 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: specifically used to stop the oxidation process. So if you 238 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: want a green tea that has a nice fresh, sort 239 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: of grassy vegetable flavor and keeps its green color, those 240 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: are usually going to be heated earlier to stop the 241 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: oxidation from progressing any further, whereas a black tea you 242 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,719 Speaker 1: would let go through way more oxidation before heating it 243 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,599 Speaker 1: in uh, in a little oven. Now, just this is 244 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:58,559 Speaker 1: a cultivation note, but I ended up throwing it in 245 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:00,080 Speaker 1: my notes here, so I'm gonna read it before I 246 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: forget about it. Um. Originally tea trees were, of course wild, 247 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: and they would grow in the wild, and they grew 248 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: quite tall. Uh. The higher leaves were obtained by simply 249 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: cutting down the tree. Uh. This wouldn't work long term, 250 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: of course, and so with cultivation comes the pruning and 251 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: the non lethal harvesting of the leaves. So I just 252 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: found that interesting. Okay, So that's why you get this 253 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: process of like taking the flushes off of the top 254 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: instead of fully culling the plant. Yeah, but back to 255 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: the process. Okay, so we've had we we've had the 256 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: first step here of withering, than rolling, than oxidation, and 257 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: then we get into the step of drying. This is 258 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: a quick drying to stop the oxidation of desired levels, 259 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: So we've kind of alluded to this already as well 260 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: as to remove enough moisture to prevent mold from forming. 261 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: But you also can't dry it out too much or 262 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: the tea could again taste burnt or on the other 263 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: end of the spectrum, you could lose its flavor, all right, 264 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: And then with the fourth step done, we're under the fifth, 265 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: and this is grating and sorting. Basically, what you're left with. 266 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: You've got to figure out what you've got, and generally 267 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: what you have is you have whole leaves, you have 268 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: broken leaves, you have you have the dinnings, and you 269 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: have dust. Whole is the best, that's the highest quality 270 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: while um and then then the broken leaves, and then 271 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: fannings and dust that tends to go into cheaper things 272 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: like you know, tea bags and so forth. Again, not 273 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: all teas go through all of these phases. Black tea 274 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: goes through all five. Oolong tea is partially oxidized. Green 275 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: teas are dried after rolling to prevent oxidation at all. 276 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: White tea doesn't go through withering, fermentation or rolling. Now, 277 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: this doesn't cover anywhere near all the teas out there 278 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: in the different types of tease. There are plenty of 279 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: sub varieties of each, and then there are blends as well, 280 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: Like one common example is English Breakfast Tea, which is 281 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: a blend of black teas. Thank thank Now there's a 282 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: whole other class of complex chemical reactions that tease undergo, 283 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: separate from the baseline oxidation process we've been talking about, 284 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: which is fermentation, a whole other thing where you are 285 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: deliberately introducing microbial growth to further create complex flavors and aromas. 286 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: That's right, And at this point, I want to mention 287 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: the puerities. Um, these are a special case. These are 288 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: again one of my favorite tea varieties. And actually our 289 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: producer j J I was chatting with him he also 290 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: really likes these. Uh, and I imagine we have a 291 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: number of listeners who are fond of these as well. 292 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: But these are fermented teas, right, yeah, it's um. So 293 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: these teas are generally made from larger, older leaves that 294 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: I believe Martin described as almost being kind of like hairy, 295 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: you know, they're they're they're they're really big old leaves. Um. 296 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: And also there's an enough moisture is allowed to remain 297 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: in them so that they can continue to ferment for years. Uh. 298 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: This is this is the only variety of tea that 299 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: improves with age. Uh. The tea stored away in bricks 300 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: or cakes. Also, they're often various wrappings, like sometimes it's 301 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,439 Speaker 1: like a like a bamboo type in situation, or some 302 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,239 Speaker 1: sort of fabric wrapping, and and ends up with just 303 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: a wide beret of flavors that are, at least in 304 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 1: my experience, unlike any other tease I've tried. Uh, they 305 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: often have the ones I've I've keep coming back to 306 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: have kind of often kind of like a barnyard flavor, 307 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: kind of straw or hay to them. Um. One of 308 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: them that I really love is just especially dark. It's 309 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: like it's like a bowl or a cup of midnight. 310 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: And like I said, they're often you'll often you'll find 311 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: these in kind of like a loose leaf situation, but 312 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: you also find them in a little pucks, little bricks, 313 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: big cakes that you have to chip away with a 314 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: special little ornate knife. I mean you could use a 315 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 1: normal butter knife or your car keys, I guess, but 316 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: you know, get into it. This is tea we're talking about. UM. 317 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: But these have a fascinating history, not only is just 318 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: being tea bricks, but being used as money as well, 319 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: with the prime example being uh taking place in Tibet. 320 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: As Wolfgang Birch points out in the use of tea 321 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: bricks as currency among the Tibetans in the Tibet Journal, 322 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 1: the Chinese introduced tea to Tibet sometime prior to seven 323 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 1: eight c E. And while it was first used as 324 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: more of a pure bartering commodity, uh, you know, I'll 325 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: trade you a brick of tea for this, that or 326 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 1: the other, it eventually took on a form that we 327 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: might reasonably refer to as currency, a regimented system of 328 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: tea bricks based on the tease quality and pureness, and 329 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: eventually imprinted with trademarks and seals. So you might think 330 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,199 Speaker 1: of it almost like you know, you think of like 331 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: a bar of gold that has been imprinted with governmental information, 332 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: like here's the seal of the of the governing body 333 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: saying like this is an approved grade of gold, the 334 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 1: amount of gold, etcetera. It's the exact same thing with 335 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 1: these tea bricks. Uh. The the governing authority has said 336 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: this is such and such tea of such and such quality, 337 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: and it is a certain amount of it. Uh, it's 338 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 1: usable as currency in this scenario. That's interesting and it 339 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 1: makes me think, I don't know this, but I'm wondering. 340 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: So in this case, would this have been a fermented 341 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: type of tea since its int form? That makes me 342 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,880 Speaker 1: think about how, you know, if you're going to try 343 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 1: to use a commonly consumed save food or drink item 344 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: as a currency, it would be difficult to use one 345 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: that quickly degrades in quality for like its use value. 346 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: So if it's something where freshness really matters, you would 347 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: not want the use value of your currency to degrade 348 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 1: fast over the course of a few months. But if 349 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: it's like a fermented tea, you mentioned that these get 350 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: better with age rather than rather than declining, so you 351 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 1: can at least hope your currency there keeps its value. 352 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: Is it Does that make sense? Yeah? Yeah, it would 353 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: keep its value. Of anything, it would increase in value, 354 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: though I don't remember reading anything about how that would 355 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 1: be decided upon, like but but I guess it would 356 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,919 Speaker 1: be subject to to like the going rate for tease 357 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: of the particular harvest and um and maturity level, you know, 358 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: like you all the information would be there on the seal. 359 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: This is a side note. I wonder how economies are 360 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: different when they have a currency that does have in 361 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 1: in some cases a use value of its own, like 362 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: you know, if you're not going to use it for trade, 363 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: you would use it for something else, like you would 364 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: literally eat it or drink it, versus economies that just 365 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: have a currency that is purely useless on its own, 366 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: it's only for facilitating trade, like like U S dollars. Yeah, 367 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 1: I mean for gold, I guess is not quite an 368 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: example of that, because even historically gold was still desired 369 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: as something that could be used for ornamentation, whereas today 370 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: it also has um technolog electronics uses as well. Um. 371 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: I think the other really good example of this is 372 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: the the the the use of chocolate in some um 373 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 1: Mesoamerican cultures, where the chocolate was such a highly regarded 374 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: commodity and and one that I guess had kind of 375 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: generalized sizes and measurements that it could be used as 376 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: currency as well. Yeah. Interesting question. Maybe we'll come back 377 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: to that one day. Yeah, so at this point that 378 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: we might get more into the timeline of tea with 379 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: the primary interest in sort of the evolution of the 380 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 1: way that it is prepared and and ultimately consumed. As 381 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: we explored in the last episode, the origin of tea 382 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,919 Speaker 1: drinking is more mythology than historical fact. It's one of 383 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 1: those things where if you if you try and answer 384 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: the question of like, well, who invented te who came 385 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: up with this? Uh, it's basically lost to two prehistory. 386 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: These are things where we have some interesting myths that 387 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 1: kind of sum up some of the general ideas and 388 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: and ultimately some of the general realities of how human 389 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: beings experimented with and chronicled the nature of their botanical world. 390 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: But in general we can't answer there. There's no one 391 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 1: person um though again, some of some of these accounts 392 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: do have a sort of an interesting shred of truth 393 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: to them, like one of the ones that, in addition 394 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,360 Speaker 1: to the ones we discussed in the last episode, there's 395 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: one that Michael d. Co brings up in seventy grade 396 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: Inventions of the Ancient World, Uh, in a chapter about 397 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: I Believe chocolate and tea. UH. There's another myth where 398 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,719 Speaker 1: a past Chinese emperor was boiling some water and some 399 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: wild leaves just kind of blew into his water boiling 400 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: in the pot. Thus creating tea that of course sounds 401 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: like pure myth and is not like a real story, 402 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: But it reminds me of our episode and the invention 403 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: of the cauldron, and about how like a cauldron or 404 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: any kind of container, even like a skin of boiling water, 405 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: like what an essential laboratory that is for humans in 406 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 1: in ancient times, figuring out what things are and what 407 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,439 Speaker 1: they can be used for. Now, the question that may 408 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: come up for some of you might think, well, there's 409 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: a great deal of Chinese literature out there going back 410 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: quite a ways. Can't we just see when people first 411 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: started writing about t uh And I think this is 412 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: a reasonable question to ask. But as Martin explains in 413 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: the book, it's it's not quite that simple. And part 414 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: of the problem is that the Chinese character um associated 415 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:20,959 Speaker 1: with t was previously used again in literature in writing 416 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: to refer to other shrubs and plants. For example, there 417 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: are mentions of of t dating back to the fifth 418 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: century b C. But it's thought that the character in 419 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: question here is just referring to south thistle, a plant 420 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: sometimes used in Chinese cuisine and native to Europe and 421 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: Western Asia. Okay, so that's frustrating trying to understand the history. Yeah, yeah, 422 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: so we we have to think about the fact that 423 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: anytime something like this comes along, like it's not just oh, well, 424 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: we have this new thing, let's get a new word 425 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: for it that's in any language. That's not necessarily how 426 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 1: it works. I'm reminded of all the different apples that 427 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,880 Speaker 1: that Europeans began to discover in the world and from 428 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: port back, yeah, palm to tear m hm. So again, 429 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: we can't pinpoint a time when tea drinking began in China, 430 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: but we can likely say it was certainly a thing 431 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: by the Hun dynasty two oh six BC through UH. 432 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,479 Speaker 1: I'm granted that's a large period of time, but by 433 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: by that period people were drinking tea. It most likely 434 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: began in Sichuan Province in southwestern China and spread gradually 435 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: to the rest of China and would have reached northern 436 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,679 Speaker 1: China by the Tang dynasty UH that period six eighteen 437 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: through nine seven. By the third century, though, according to Martin, 438 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: we we do have mentioned in the literature of tea 439 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 1: that we can more firmly connect actual tea drinking, which 440 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: points out that Hatwo and noted physician who may have 441 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: also developed one of the earliest forms of anesthesia. Also 442 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: wrote about tea quote, to drink tea constantly makes one 443 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: think better. That checks out. M Well, it depends on 444 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,640 Speaker 1: what you mean by constantly. Yeah, I'm not sure about 445 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: the particulars of the translation. There. By the way, the 446 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: the anesthesia that he supposedly invented, I think they was 447 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,719 Speaker 1: reading that the name literally transplates to cannabis boiling powder, 448 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: but we still don't know exactly what this supposed anesthesia contained. Also, 449 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 1: a general from the third century lu Kun wrote that 450 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: he felt old, depressed and needed some real tea. And 451 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: just the impression here that he's out out doing the 452 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 1: military thing and he just realizes, Man, I'm I'm just 453 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: I'm old, I'm sad, and I would just kill for 454 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: an actual cup of tea instead of I guess boiling 455 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,479 Speaker 1: various other things that we're finding in the nature around us, 456 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: So you could have you could have fake teas. There's like, 457 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: if you can't get real tea from Camillius and instus, 458 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: you might just try boiling other plant matter. Yeah, I mean, 459 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: the history of of tea is kind of full of 460 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: these examples. Uh, and not not only the history of tea, 461 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: but I guess the the history of of like pharmacology 462 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: and no pharmacology in general. I think we've touched a 463 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: little bit on this before talking about psychedelics, where you'll 464 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 1: have some historians think you'll have one particular custom of 465 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: using a particular um herb or plant that is growing 466 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: in the natural environment. But what happens when people move? 467 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 1: What happens when there is a migration. Yes, in many 468 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: cases you can bring your plants with you. Uh, sometimes 469 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: those plants don't survive though, Sometimes they can't be brought anyway, 470 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,360 Speaker 1: or you just so that the people that bring them 471 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: are not able to keep those plants going in these 472 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: new places they moved to. And in those cases you 473 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: might try to find some sort of reasonable fac similar 474 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: like what's something else that does something that changes me 475 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: a little bit when I boil it in water and drinking. 476 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: So we may come back to some of that in 477 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: a bit. And then Martin also points it by let's say, 478 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: around three fifty c E there's a more detailed description 479 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: of the tea plant that we seem pretty sure is 480 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 1: an actual description of off tea, and this is provided 481 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: by Gopu. Again around three fifty s. Thank thank Now, 482 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: I guess one thing I wonder is, um, it's one 483 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 1: thing to talk about, Okay, we're taking leaves of this 484 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 1: specific plant and and boiling them to make tea, But 485 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: it's another thing to think about, like all of the 486 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: complex preparation process steps and and the different varieties of 487 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: tea produced today. Do you have any idea when that 488 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: sort of thing started to come online, or at least 489 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 1: when we have the earliest evidence of that. Yeah, this 490 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 1: is this is interesting because one thing that that Martin 491 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 1: points out is that early on tea was probably not good. 492 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 1: It's not would have been nothing like what we're having today. 493 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: It would have been we can almost think of it 494 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: more as kind of this herbal soup, and you'd have 495 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,479 Speaker 1: various things added to it in an attempt to improve 496 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: the flavor profile. And and you might be thinking, oh, 497 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: like delightful flowers and stuff. No things like onions might 498 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 1: be added. Is just a way to improve the flavor. 499 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: And I believe in Martin, I believe mentioned that this 500 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: probably also didn't work. It was just so strong a 501 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: flavor you couldn't really improve on it all that much. 502 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: But you drank it because, uh, you know it was 503 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: there were already something like helpful um associations with it, 504 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: and you know, and maybe it wasn't making it was 505 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: sick because it was boiled, et cetera. But during the 506 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: time of the Northern Way Dynasty three eighties six through CE, 507 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: apparently that the tea processing had improved, at least to 508 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: what we might think of as a basic level. There 509 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: mentions of cakes been made of tea leaves that have 510 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: been roasted. It was probably still a lot cruder compared 511 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: to things that we're gonna come or certainly cruder than 512 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: things that you would think of today as a desirable tease. 513 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: But the journey toward more complex flavors was under way, 514 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 1: and I'm assuming you were maybe not having to put 515 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: onions in your tea anymore now. During the fifth century, 516 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: see there's also examples of tea tributes being made to 517 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: the imperial court and to the emperor himself. Uh. And 518 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: also the emperor was said to have his own tea 519 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: reserves as well, like these were places where just the 520 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: emperor's tea was grown. So already uh, it was you know, 521 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: presumably flavors are improving, and also the ruling class, the 522 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: elites of society are really getting attached to the idea 523 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: of tea. But then the Tang dynasty six eighteen through 524 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: nine oh seven, this is the period in which we 525 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: see Chinese tea in the form of baked bricks of 526 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: green tea, which are ideal for travel, spreading to new 527 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: parts of the empire and beyond. Martin also writes that 528 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: this widespread technique also greatly improved the flavor um. The 529 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: popularity of tea spread so much during this time that 530 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: it was no longer just a drink of the elite 531 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: of the emperor and his court. It was a drink 532 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: for everybody, even peasants. By this point we're we're getting 533 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: in on tea culture. That doesn't mean everybody would have 534 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: access to the same tea, of course, you're the type 535 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: of tea you drank would would be intrinsically linked to 536 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: your place in society, as would the various paraphernalia that 537 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: were used in tea preparation and tea consumption. But uh, 538 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: it was. It was essentially something that could be found 539 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: throughout society. Um Also, this would again have been exclusively 540 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: green tea, as red black tea would not be developed 541 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: for centuries to come, and this is the time of 542 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: an individual by the name of Lou You. This would 543 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: have been in the eighth century. Uh He was known 544 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: as the Immortal of Tea, the Sage of Tea, and 545 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: he was author of the Classic of Tea, the Classic 546 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: of Tea. I see a similarity in the English naming 547 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: convention of some of these great old Chinese texts, similar 548 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: to like the Classic of Mountains and Seas. Exactly, yes, 549 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 1: I forget exactly what that is translated from, though, Like 550 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: what what are all the range of meanings in uh 551 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: In in the original? Yeah? Yeah, but it But but 552 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: certainly this is a common translation of some of these 553 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: important books, I would think you could. You might roughly 554 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: think of it the same way that that important books 555 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: might in the Western traditions might be preferred to as 556 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: like the book of such and such or a chronicle 557 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: of such and such. Now this is a This is 558 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: an interesting figure Lou You, though, because there are a 559 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: number of legends about him as well. You know, he's 560 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: definitely a historic individual and author. It seems that folks 561 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: agree on that. But they are all these additional stories, um, 562 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: such as that he was abandoned and subsequently adopted by 563 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: Buddhist monks. Also, there's this other story that he um. 564 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: I think these all kind of work together, or at 565 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: least were eventually stitched together into one narrative that he 566 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: was then trained. He then trained to be a clown 567 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: in the opera, and this was his lifelong ambition, but 568 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: then he ended up coming a scholar instead. Uh. He 569 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: started spending a lot of time in tea houses, which 570 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: was a popular hangout at the time, And this reminds 571 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: me a bit of of accounts of tea and coffee 572 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: houses in later European history as a kind of like 573 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: cultural incubator in a place where like the poet resides. Yeah. Yeah, 574 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: And so he has this this supposed trajectory that's pretty interesting, 575 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 1: Like he starts off as um as an abandoned child, 576 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: becomes a monk, then becomes a clown, then becomes a scholar, 577 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: and then essentially becomes the immortal of tea. It implies 578 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: tea being kind of like the highest level achievable. Yeah, 579 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: it does, and I think that matches up with the 580 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: way that he was received and regarded. But but it 581 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: goes beyond like you might think, Okay, he wrote this 582 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: scholarly work about tea, and I bet the scholarly class 583 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: really loved it. But as Martin points out, this work 584 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: had a huge impact on tea in society as it 585 00:32:55,440 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: gave agriculturalists and farmers the first real written account of 586 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: how to cultivate and process tea. Everything before the Classic 587 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: of tea was just orally transmitted or was, you know, 588 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: unknown to individuals who might want to partake of it 589 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 1: and uh and cultivate their own tea. His work made 590 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: tea cultivation accessible, and it included everything that was known 591 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 1: at the time about tea, where you could grow it, 592 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: how to grow it, how to harvest it and prepare it, 593 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: the culture of drinking it, the twenty four implements required 594 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: to prepare tea in the home, that sort of thing. Whoa, 595 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: that's a lot of implements, yeah, and and a lot 596 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: of just sort of advice on what is proper like. 597 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: For instance, I was reading in Martin that he he 598 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: was a big fan of using blue glazed cups to 599 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: enhance the green color of the tea, while he thought 600 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: that white cups or bowls would give it a distasteful 601 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: pink color. M hmm. This is interesting in part because 602 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: it reminds me of uh like the passages in Plenty 603 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: of the Elder where he's like, Hey, if you're gonna 604 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: boil like some sweet sappa to drink, you better do 605 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: it in a lead pot instead of a copper one, 606 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: because the copper makes it bitter, the lead makes it sweet. 607 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,800 Speaker 1: I know, I assume he's not talking about actual changes 608 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: in uh flavor here, but truly just appearance. But this 609 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: is also quite observant because uh, I think as like 610 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: chefs and people who work in restaurants will tell you 611 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: the appearance and color of your your plates really does 612 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: affect how people perceive the food. Oh yeah, absolutely. And 613 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: then of course there's so much ritual on on top 614 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: of all of this. Uh you know. Martin stresses that 615 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,359 Speaker 1: while some of this might seem just you know, over 616 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: the top and and and perhaps too fancy, we have 617 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: to remind ourselves that this is a world um where 618 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: individuals like lu you are striving for universal perfection. Uh 619 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: So that's and we have to think about it too 620 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: in light of of Confucianism, Dalism and Buddhism as well, 621 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,399 Speaker 1: which are all important energy in the world surrounding this uh, 622 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: this growing tea culture Now, the popularity of the Classic 623 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 1: of Tease not only spread the word of tea, it 624 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,839 Speaker 1: also further enhanced its popularity and pushed both greater tea 625 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,800 Speaker 1: trade and greater advancements in how it was cultivated and prepared. 626 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: Tea also spread throughout China during this time because it 627 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: had become just so embraced by Buddhist practice and culture. Um. 628 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: But it's also meant that when Buddhism fell out of 629 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: favor during the decline of the Tang dynasty, tea culture 630 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: did as well. And this would this is a trend 631 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: that would recur when foreign invaders would control parts of China, 632 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 1: Tea culture would suffer in that area. Interesting, does that 633 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: mean it was replaced by something or I wonder what 634 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:51,720 Speaker 1: caused that correlation? It's it based on what I was reading. 635 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: And there may be more nuanced to this and more 636 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: more to this, but it would just be a situation 637 00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: where uh, it was linked with the with the ruling party. 638 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,359 Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of like a top down um 639 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: cultural um practice and without without t culture emanating from 640 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: uh sort of you know, in radiating waves from the 641 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: ruling body. It kind of falls out of favor and 642 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 1: you have people maybe falling, and you're gonna have cultural 643 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 1: trans transmission taking place there too. Of course, because you 644 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: also see in the in the histories where UH, you know, 645 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: some some groups, say the Mongols becomes the ruling body 646 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 1: in a part of China, they also become more Chinese 647 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,320 Speaker 1: as they rule, So you know, the trans cultural transmission 648 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,359 Speaker 1: goes both ways. But it seems like you would have 649 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,280 Speaker 1: these situations where a foreign power would would take control 650 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 1: for a while and yet just key popularity would wane. 651 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 1: But then when inevitably um Chinese rule was restored in 652 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: these areas, you would see the reverse. And one of 653 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: the examples of this would be nine sixty s UH. 654 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: The the the rule of the song honesty brought tea 655 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,439 Speaker 1: back to the forefront. It's trade during this period became 656 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: so important that the Imperial Court found that they could 657 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: just restrict or manipulate the flow of tea two outlying 658 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: regions UM if deemed necessary. So it would would be 659 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 1: a way to control UH and manipulate other groups, such 660 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: as determining how much tea goes to say to bat door, 661 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,240 Speaker 1: to the Mongols, or to the Turks and others, almost 662 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: kind of like a spice trade. Of dune sort of scenario. Um, 663 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 1: you know, and certainly that's the sort of thing that 664 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 1: that Frank Herbert was was thinking of when he was 665 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: writing do maybe not tea specifically, but but obviously this 666 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: control of of a of a desired or vital resource 667 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: by one particular body. Yeah. It's also during this time period, 668 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: Martin rights, that we enter the second school or phase 669 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 1: of tea. So this first phase had been the brick era. 670 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,279 Speaker 1: Again we're talking about those bricks of tea, you know, 671 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 1: how it's dried and then often stored, etcetera. But then 672 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 1: we're entering at this point the whipped school. And it's 673 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,839 Speaker 1: called the whipped school due to the creation and popularity 674 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,760 Speaker 1: of dried and powdered green tea that was then whipped 675 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: in boiling water until it's foamy. This is what we 676 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: typically call mach it ti today, and it was a 677 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: huge hit during this time period. Of course, has remained 678 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,839 Speaker 1: with us. Oh that's interesting, Okay, I guess I do 679 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: associate uh mache ti with looking kind of foamy, but 680 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: I didn't realize why that was. So it's like typically 681 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,959 Speaker 1: more of a powder form that that is whipped into 682 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: the water vigorously yeah, yeah, like generally you'll have and 683 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,759 Speaker 1: we'll we'll probably come back around him to macha here 684 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 1: in a bit and talk about it in a special 685 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 1: in relation to Japanese tea culture. But yeah, even if 686 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 1: you get it today, you're probably gonna get some sort 687 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: of one, one variety or another of macha, perhaps like 688 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: a ceremonial grade tea. You're gonna put that in your 689 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: in your bowl or cup, and once you have the 690 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 1: hot water, you're gonna you're gonna want to whip it up. 691 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: There's gonna be a special implement do that. And this, 692 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: of course can also be quite exceptional. Okay, so we 693 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: go from brick to the whipped powder and then does 694 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: it does it change after that? Because that still doesn't 695 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 1: resemble the most of the tea preparation I can think 696 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 1: of today, which is based on steeping, right right, Well, 697 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: that is going to eventually be the third school, the 698 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,800 Speaker 1: school of steeping, as in like loose leaf tea especially, 699 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,279 Speaker 1: and we are still in this school today, Martin, right. Still, 700 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 1: of course, all three of these are still used. I 701 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 1: don't know if there's gonna be a fourth phase of tea. 702 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. The laser school of tea. Thank thank 703 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: al Right, there there's more to the history of tea, 704 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,720 Speaker 1: and we'll keep going with the history of tea in 705 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: a future episode here, but I thought it might be 706 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: fun at this point to discuss tea and health. Now. 707 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier how Martin pointed out that by the 708 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 1: fourth century, cet consumption was probably part of daily life 709 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 1: for many in China. But it wasn't good. You were 710 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 1: having to mask it with things like, you know, sometimes 711 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: things like citrus or ginger, which doesn't sound that bad, 712 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,799 Speaker 1: but other times you're putting salt and onions in it, 713 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,400 Speaker 1: all to try and make it more palpable. But you 714 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: were consuming it because it had perceived health benefits. You 715 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,360 Speaker 1: also might just eat your tea leaves straight like a 716 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: vegetable in this time still, though again it would have 717 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: been bitter. It would not have been a pleasant experience. 718 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 1: You Also, I was surprised by this. You also might 719 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,359 Speaker 1: have sniffed it like snuff so um. That would be 720 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 1: a sort of a you know, an approach to powdered 721 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,920 Speaker 1: tea that I didn't think about. Also not what I'm 722 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 1: saying anyone needs to try, but but it was one 723 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,359 Speaker 1: method that was used as was sometimes using it externally, uh, 724 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,520 Speaker 1: like you know, applying it just to the skin, or 725 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 1: or perhaps to some sort of skin irritation like a poultice. Yeah. 726 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 1: So it was widely used during this time, again not 727 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,399 Speaker 1: because it was necessarily pleasant to to have, but first 728 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 1: of all, it was associated with wakefulness and digestion, which 729 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,799 Speaker 1: I think these are both agreed upon effects of caffeine. 730 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 1: If you've had caffeine, or or explored caffeine, or even 731 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,800 Speaker 1: been around people that have that use caffeine, you probably 732 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,799 Speaker 1: know that this is the case. Like caffeine can can 733 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,360 Speaker 1: wake you up, it can make you more alert. It 734 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: can also speed up digestion and um. Yeah, and that's 735 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 1: why if you go to a coffee house or a 736 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: teahouse these days, there may be a weight at the 737 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 1: bathroom and there may be a lot of people with 738 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,399 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of crackling energy. But it's worth 739 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 1: it because, as Lou Tong said, what it searches the 740 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,760 Speaker 1: dry rivulets of the soul helps you find the stories 741 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,240 Speaker 1: of five thousand scrolls. Yeah, I'd say that still checks 742 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,680 Speaker 1: out caffeine effects on cognition. Yeah. At the same time, 743 00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 1: though it was also used during this time as a 744 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,400 Speaker 1: treatment for everything from poor eyesight, skin, and oregon issues. 745 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,400 Speaker 1: It was also considered a strong preventative medicine and something 746 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,720 Speaker 1: that positively impacted one's cheese. So we again, so we're 747 00:41:55,760 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 1: seeing like the full spectrum here of possible and saved 748 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:06,040 Speaker 1: uses for tea that benefited your current ailments, preventage other ailments, 749 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: and maybe even affected sort of spiritual energy. Uh, concepts 750 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: regarding the functionality of the human body. Yes, now, uh, 751 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,480 Speaker 1: because we've raised the question in the historical context here 752 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 1: of beliefs about tea and it's positive impacts on health, 753 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,400 Speaker 1: I think it's worth looking at what some of the 754 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 1: modern major nutrition science findings on the health effects of 755 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,719 Speaker 1: t R. But strong caveat I'm not going to go 756 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,360 Speaker 1: deep on this because I just feel personally, like you know, 757 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,880 Speaker 1: we look at a lot of different domains of science, 758 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,480 Speaker 1: and I feel like there is no quicker way to 759 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: lose your mind than looking for scientific papers on a 760 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,880 Speaker 1: question of is this common food or drink either good 761 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:53,120 Speaker 1: or bad for your health? Coffee, tea, chocolate, wine, a 762 00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,880 Speaker 1: million other things. It always seems like there are just 763 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,440 Speaker 1: reams of conflicting results, some of which sound prima facy 764 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: absurd and probably are you know, like a study show 765 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:06,240 Speaker 1: uh wine cure's heart disease or something like that. And 766 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 1: and I detect the presence of persistent methodological problems with 767 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,319 Speaker 1: attempts to look at this kind of thing specifically, like 768 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,360 Speaker 1: does a common food or drink item that people consume 769 00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: for pleasure or for other reasons have uh, you know, 770 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,200 Speaker 1: x broad health effect. But uh, with that caveat, I'm 771 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 1: going to cite the findings of a major meta analysis 772 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 1: that I looked at from twenty nineteen. So. This was 773 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:35,720 Speaker 1: by Mengshi Yi called t Consumption and Health Outcomes Umbrella 774 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 1: Review of Meta Analyzes of observational studies and Humans. This 775 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,120 Speaker 1: was published in the journal Molecular Nutrition and Food Research 776 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:46,560 Speaker 1: and twenty nineteen. Uh So, this study is an umbrella 777 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 1: review also known as a review of reviews, which kind 778 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,880 Speaker 1: of gives you an idea how much research there is 779 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,000 Speaker 1: on the topic, so to picture where this rests in 780 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 1: the research hierarchy. Of course, you can have individual studies 781 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,480 Speaker 1: or experiments on uh, you know, the effect of TE 782 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,719 Speaker 1: on some particular outcome, and then you can have a 783 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,480 Speaker 1: paper a level above that, which is a review or 784 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 1: a meta analysis which compares and analyzes and usually averages 785 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,719 Speaker 1: the results of many different individual studies of a bunch 786 00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:16,840 Speaker 1: of you know, it collects everything it can find in 787 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,520 Speaker 1: the literature and says, when you compare all these what 788 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,120 Speaker 1: results poke out? And then if you have enough of 789 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,600 Speaker 1: those reviews within a subject area, you can have an 790 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 1: umbrella review, which is a review of reviews. And sometimes 791 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,920 Speaker 1: umbrella reviews are going to have like a broader question. So, 792 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,360 Speaker 1: for example, you can have a meta analysis of studies 793 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:39,800 Speaker 1: on the relationship between tea and cardiovascular disease, and another 794 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 1: one comparing studies on T and various cancers, and then 795 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:45,879 Speaker 1: you can maybe have an umbrella review looking at all 796 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,080 Speaker 1: those meta analyzes to understand the relationship between tea and 797 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 1: health outcomes more generally. Okay, so sorry about all that preamble, 798 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,920 Speaker 1: But anyway, what did this umbrella review find in the 799 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,200 Speaker 1: existing literature as of twenty nineteen. Well, it looked at 800 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:03,560 Speaker 1: nine si AT analyzes addressing forty different health outcomes, and 801 00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,520 Speaker 1: it concluded that overall, studies showed greater evidence for health 802 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:12,120 Speaker 1: benefits than for harm to health from T consumption. So, uh, 803 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,920 Speaker 1: they say, quote dose response analysis of T consumption indicates 804 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 1: reduced risks of total mortality, cardiac death, coronary artery disease, stroke, 805 00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,279 Speaker 1: and type two diabetes melitas with increment of two to 806 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,840 Speaker 1: three cups per day. Beneficial associations are also found for 807 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:34,120 Speaker 1: several cancers, skeletal, cognitive, and maternal outcomes. Harmful associations are 808 00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:38,160 Speaker 1: found for esophageal cancer and gastric cancer when the temperature 809 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 1: of intake is more than fifty five to sixty degrees celsius. 810 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,120 Speaker 1: Uh So. This leads them to the conclusion that except 811 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,719 Speaker 1: for the upper digestive cancer risk that may be associated 812 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,640 Speaker 1: with drinking very hot tea and again greater than fifty 813 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,440 Speaker 1: five to sixty degrees c is about one thirty one 814 00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,880 Speaker 1: to one forty degrees fahrenheit. Unless you're drinking tea that 815 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,440 Speaker 1: hot or hotter. Normal levels of tea consumptions, such as 816 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,560 Speaker 1: two to three cups per day, appear safe, and those 817 00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:09,239 Speaker 1: levels of tea and take are even associated with a 818 00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:13,279 Speaker 1: broad range of apparently positive health effects. The ones I 819 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,560 Speaker 1: mentioned a minute ago, however, this is a very important 820 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:21,920 Speaker 1: thing to stress. They acknowledge the difficulty in disentangling regular 821 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:26,400 Speaker 1: dietary t consumption from possible confounding variables, and so they 822 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:31,080 Speaker 1: argue that to really conclude that the observed associations or causal, 823 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,799 Speaker 1: so you know, for example, finding that uh T consumption 824 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:37,600 Speaker 1: of two to three cups per day might be associated 825 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,919 Speaker 1: with like reduced risk of cardiac death or something like that. 826 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,640 Speaker 1: In order to really be sure that that that the 827 00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,239 Speaker 1: T is the cause of that and not just some 828 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:50,280 Speaker 1: random association, you would need to do randomized control trials. 829 00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:52,680 Speaker 1: And this is often true. I think when you're looking 830 00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,120 Speaker 1: at connections between like common food or drink items and 831 00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:00,000 Speaker 1: health outcomes, you might find that any random thing, people 832 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,840 Speaker 1: who eat kelp on a regular basis have a lower 833 00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,759 Speaker 1: risk of pancreatic cancer, But that doesn't actually show that 834 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,960 Speaker 1: it's the kelp that makes the difference. It could be 835 00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,120 Speaker 1: that people who have a lower risk of that cancer 836 00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,520 Speaker 1: also for some reason, just happen to eat more kelp. 837 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,560 Speaker 1: And the best way to establish the kelp is the 838 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,760 Speaker 1: cause would again be to do a randomized controlled trial, 839 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,520 Speaker 1: which is the gold standard used for testing new drugs 840 00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,840 Speaker 1: and so forth, uh but not always used to examine 841 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,680 Speaker 1: the health effects of common food and drink items such 842 00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,480 Speaker 1: as coffee, chocolate, tea, all these things that you see 843 00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,360 Speaker 1: a million conflicting study results on you know, uh T 844 00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,719 Speaker 1: helps this health effect, and then another study says maybe 845 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:40,560 Speaker 1: it doesn't. So in the end, I think it's hard 846 00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:44,680 Speaker 1: to get very uh solid results on on these kind 847 00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,440 Speaker 1: of food and drink items. But at least the existing 848 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:51,240 Speaker 1: research today makes it look like broadly tea is pretty 849 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,040 Speaker 1: safe to drink as long as you're drinking it within 850 00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,759 Speaker 1: moderation and not super hot and uh and may in 851 00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:00,120 Speaker 1: fact have some positive health benefits associated with it, but 852 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,680 Speaker 1: don't bank on those too much. M hm, Well, these 853 00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:05,440 Speaker 1: are all great points. Like depending on the study, you 854 00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:06,960 Speaker 1: might be it might be a situation where it's the 855 00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,560 Speaker 1: tea cakes that are causing all of the positive health effects, right, Yeah, 856 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:12,759 Speaker 1: it may not be causal about drinking the tea at all. 857 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,960 Speaker 1: Maybe it's that people who have lower risk of whatever 858 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,520 Speaker 1: are also just for some reason cultural or otherwise more 859 00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:20,880 Speaker 1: likely to drink tea. Or it could be that the 860 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,560 Speaker 1: act of sitting down and drinking something warm from a cup. 861 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:25,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what all they compared it to, 862 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,640 Speaker 1: what controls they used on all these different experiments, because 863 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:30,640 Speaker 1: there have been a lot of them. But that's where 864 00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,080 Speaker 1: the research show looks like it lands today. But but 865 00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,520 Speaker 1: I did want to note that positive health effects of 866 00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:40,719 Speaker 1: tea could exist and might also be construed, not in 867 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,560 Speaker 1: an absolute sense, but in the sense of comparing tea 868 00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:49,480 Speaker 1: to alternatives, to other things you could consume instead of tea. Yeah, 869 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:51,680 Speaker 1: And in this I want to turn to a quote 870 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:55,880 Speaker 1: from the herbal classic that I think we referenced this 871 00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,320 Speaker 1: work in the last episode. It is attributed to Shinnong 872 00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:04,600 Speaker 1: again and the divine farmer with the crystal uh stomach Uh. 873 00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,719 Speaker 1: That is one in some of the myths is attributed 874 00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:11,799 Speaker 1: as discovering tea, and the quote reasons follows in translation, 875 00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:15,319 Speaker 1: quote Tea is better than wine, for it leadeth not 876 00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,600 Speaker 1: to intoxication, neither does it cause a man to say 877 00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,920 Speaker 1: foolish things and repent thereof in his sober moments. It 878 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,440 Speaker 1: is better than water, for it does not carry disease. 879 00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,319 Speaker 1: Neither does it act like poison as water does when 880 00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:32,400 Speaker 1: it contains foul and rotten matter. Hey, that's the couple 881 00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:36,080 Speaker 1: of I would say, quite solid observations. Yeah, I mean, 882 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,240 Speaker 1: I think I think it's fair to agree that the 883 00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,880 Speaker 1: over indulgence of tea is less of a public or 884 00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:46,800 Speaker 1: health or safety issue compared to the consumption of alcohol. Yeah, 885 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,879 Speaker 1: and then, as Martin points out and in her book, 886 00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,160 Speaker 1: this last bit is also certainly true. T prepared with 887 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,200 Speaker 1: boiling water would rid the water of many of the 888 00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:59,520 Speaker 1: inherent pathogens. So if you're just looking at the difference 889 00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:03,879 Speaker 1: between having a hot cup of tea and drinking lane 890 00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:07,560 Speaker 1: or rain water or something um or or any kind 891 00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,280 Speaker 1: of water that might be on hand for pure drinking purposes, 892 00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:15,000 Speaker 1: the tea is a healthier choice historically speaking, that seems 893 00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,239 Speaker 1: quite true as long as people are, of course not 894 00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:20,640 Speaker 1: consuming that seventh cup of tea and uh, you know, 895 00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,759 Speaker 1: rapturing themselves to the Holy Mountain. Right, Yeah, you don't 896 00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,440 Speaker 1: want to accidentally fly to pung Li before you get 897 00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,440 Speaker 1: to work in the morning. Right And and yet to 898 00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,200 Speaker 1: your point, just the the idea of your drinking tea, 899 00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,520 Speaker 1: then what are you not drinking If you're not drinking alcohol, 900 00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:40,480 Speaker 1: you're not drinking wine, you're not drinking water, that may, 901 00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,080 Speaker 1: you know, given the circumstances, might not be the purest 902 00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:47,759 Speaker 1: or the healthiest choice at that time. Uh yeah, this 903 00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:49,839 Speaker 1: is all fascinating. I think that's going to do it 904 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,520 Speaker 1: for part two, right, Yeah, I think this is all 905 00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:54,520 Speaker 1: we have time for in this episode, but we'll come 906 00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:56,600 Speaker 1: back for a part three. We're gonna look a little 907 00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,800 Speaker 1: more at the history and evolution of tea and possibly 908 00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,520 Speaker 1: going into some other tea cultures as well, and we'll 909 00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,120 Speaker 1: see what else comes up. In the meantime. We'd love 910 00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:06,759 Speaker 1: to hear from everyone out there, because I know we 911 00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:08,960 Speaker 1: have a lot of tea drinkers out there, tea drinkers 912 00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:13,600 Speaker 1: from different parts of the world, different tastes, different experiences. 913 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:16,959 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear everything you have to say about 914 00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:20,080 Speaker 1: the matter. H So right in let us know, I'd 915 00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,759 Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Reminder that core episodes of 916 00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:25,319 Speaker 1: To Blow Your Mind published on two days and Thursdays. 917 00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:28,800 Speaker 1: Monday is listener Mail. Wednesday is a short form artifact 918 00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:30,880 Speaker 1: or monster fact, and on Fridays we set aside most 919 00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:33,240 Speaker 1: serious concerns to talk about a weird film on Weird 920 00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:37,000 Speaker 1: House Cinema. Huge thanks to our audio producer J. J. Pauseway. 921 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:38,799 Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us 922 00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,360 Speaker 1: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 923 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,479 Speaker 1: a topic for the future, or just to say hello, 924 00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,359 Speaker 1: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow 925 00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:56,719 Speaker 1: your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow your mind. It's 926 00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,440 Speaker 1: production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts for my 927 00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,400 Speaker 1: heart Radio. This is the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 928 00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:16,440 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen me to your favorite shows.