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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease. The search conducted in connection

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Speaker 1: with the Long Island serial killer suspect has ceased. But

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Speaker 1: now all eyes not only on the crime lab as

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Speaker 1: they begin to process a mountain of evidence taken from

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Speaker 1: the basement, the home, the car, the backyard, the dirt,

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Speaker 1: you name it. Now they're processing all that, but in addition,

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Speaker 1: all eyes also turning toward the east Bound strangler and

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Speaker 1: the Materval butcher. Why is there a connection, a quite

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Speaker 1: obvious connection between the Gilgo Beach killer and two more

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Speaker 1: serial killer episodes. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Vaccination and

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Speaker 1: Serious xem one eleven. Take a listen to our friends

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Speaker 1: at NBC.

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Speaker 2: After combing for clues for nearly two weeks, an exhaustive

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Speaker 2: search of the Long Island tone belonging to Gilgo murder

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Speaker 2: suspect Rex Schureman is over.

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Speaker 1: We have obtained a massive amount of.

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Speaker 3: Material.

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Speaker 2: Now officials are stressing patients as they analyze and catalog

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Speaker 2: what they found, removing box after box of material from

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Speaker 2: the premises. Investigators finding a walk in vault equipped with

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Speaker 2: an iron door in the home and saying they seize

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Speaker 2: two hundred and seventy nine weapons.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we know that's stars has ceased and the task

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Speaker 1: before the crime lab is tremendous. But what about the

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Speaker 1: so called east Bound Strangler and the Manterval Butcher. Many

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Speaker 1: people outside criminal justice have never even heard of them.

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Speaker 1: You'll hear of them now. Take a listen to NBC.

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Speaker 2: The Gilgo Task Force is now expanding its investigation to

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Speaker 2: other cold cases on Long Island.

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Speaker 4: A serial killer stalk the streets of Atlantic City, strangling

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Speaker 4: prostitutes and leaving them in a narrow ditch behind a

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Speaker 4: CD motel. In November two thousand and six, the bodies

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Speaker 4: of these four women were discovered behind the Golden Key

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Speaker 4: Motel in a carpor Township, their shoes and socks missing,

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Speaker 4: and their bodies with their faces pointed eastward towards the

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Speaker 4: gold and silver spires of Atlantic City across the bag.

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Speaker 4: The media called the killer the Eastbound Strangler, and no

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Speaker 4: one's ever been arrested and charged with this crime.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let that say, ken, you're not only hearing our

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Speaker 1: friends at NBC, but also chasing news my nine. Let's

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Speaker 1: hear that one more time. Specifically, cut one forty five

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Speaker 1: Jack a.

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Speaker 4: Serial killer stalk the streets of Atlantic City, strangling prostitutes

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Speaker 4: and leaving them in a narrow ditch behind a CD motel.

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Speaker 4: In November two thousand and six, the bodies of these

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Speaker 4: four women were discovered behind the Golden Key Motel in

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Speaker 4: a carpor township, their shoes and socks missing, and their

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Speaker 4: bodies with their faces pointed eastward towards the gold and

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Speaker 4: Silver spires of Atlantic City across the bay. The media

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Speaker 4: called the killer the Eastbound strangler, and no one's ever

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Speaker 4: been arrested and charged with this crime.

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Speaker 1: Straight out to the founder and director of the Cold

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Speaker 1: Case Research Institute, forensic expert currently analyzing for a job

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Speaker 1: for a living crime scenes. You can find her at

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Speaker 1: coldcasecrimes dot org. Host of a new hit podcast, Zone seven,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. Cheryl, you were with me so many times

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Speaker 1: and during the time I prosecuted violent crimes, including murders,

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Speaker 1: including serial killers. The first thing you want to do

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Speaker 1: when you look at similar transactions, as it is called

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Speaker 1: typically and our constitute. Under our constitution, past crimes do

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Speaker 1: not come in on the case in chief. The jury

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Speaker 1: doesn't need to be tainted by other crimes. Unlesson until

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Speaker 1: it shows course of conduct, motive, a frame of mind similarity.

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Speaker 1: So the first thing you want to do to get

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Speaker 1: that evident sin, of course, is to find similarities. Here

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Speaker 1: we have all the victims, and this has really been

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Speaker 1: under played. Nobody even says this word women. They're almost

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Speaker 1: all women. Now, there was one Asian male over on

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Speaker 1: Long Island, and there was one child, but overwhelmingly all

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Speaker 1: the victims are women, many of them sex workers here

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Speaker 1: in the Eastbound killer case. And I think we're going

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Speaker 1: to learn in Manerville lumped together in their burial sites,

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Speaker 1: their disposal sites. Burial is probably a euphemism. They're all

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Speaker 1: disposed of in the same area. They're all killed in

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Speaker 1: the same manner, which is not necessary to be a

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Speaker 1: similar transaction. And many of them, if not all, are

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Speaker 1: sex workers. Okay, how far away? Hold on to a second?

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Speaker 1: Jen Smith joining me, Chief investigative reporter, dealingmail dot Com. Jen,

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Speaker 1: how far are the bodies in the Eastbound strangler for

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Speaker 1: the bodies at Gilgo, Just give me that one fact

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Speaker 1: if you know it, if somebody else knows it, jump in.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, pretty far.

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Speaker 6: I mean, we're talking about Long Island or New York's

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Speaker 6: East Coast and then Jersey, Atlantic City, Wada.

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Speaker 7: I'm kind of.

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Speaker 6: At the tip there, so pretty far, but you know,

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Speaker 6: not impossible, right?

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Speaker 1: Pretty far? What is pretty far? Three hours? Are you serious?

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Speaker 1: People drive two and a half hours, three hours just

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Speaker 1: to get to work. And if you're looking to kill hookers,

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Speaker 1: where you're going to go? Atlantic City, Vegas? Away from

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Speaker 1: home so your wife and your children don't know what

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Speaker 1: you're doing enough?

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Speaker 6: Yes, you're right, Nancy. They are close enough for a

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Speaker 6: connection to be plausible.

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Speaker 1: A three hour drive to dispose of bodies? Okay, sure,

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Speaker 1: I will call him similarities. What do you make of it?

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Speaker 8: They're all saxe workers. Their cell phones were taken. That's

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Speaker 8: key to me, because we know not only has Rex

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Speaker 8: taken cell phones from the victims, is used them.

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Speaker 1: Well, well, Waite, stop, did you actually just call him

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Speaker 1: by his first name? Why are you gonna have dinner

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Speaker 1: with him?

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Speaker 8: Might not be too respectful by calling him by his

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Speaker 8: last name?

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Speaker 1: Don't don't go while his wife and children aren't home.

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Speaker 8: And I'm trying not to give him too much policy

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Speaker 8: what so I'm just saying, we know he took cell phones,

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Speaker 8: we know he used those faults. The other thing not

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Speaker 8: only are the dumping grounds similar, but the way he's

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Speaker 8: left the victims enclosed proct similarly to woman another is key, Nancy,

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Speaker 8: you and I talked about from Jump Street. There were

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Speaker 8: gonna be bodies in other states. We believe that the

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Speaker 8: fact that he had seven cell phones. The pros right

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Speaker 8: now are going to try to see the estee of

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Speaker 8: why he had seven phones with each bone designated a

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Speaker 8: different state.

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Speaker 9: We will see.

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Speaker 1: Guys, we're talking about the very real possibility that Rex Hureman,

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Speaker 1: the so called Long Island serial Killer or Gilgo Beach Killer,

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Speaker 1: is connected to a string of murders, the Moniker, the

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Speaker 1: east Bound Strangler, and Manabel Butcher. I want to go

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Speaker 1: now to a very special guest joining us, and remember

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Speaker 1: everybody on the panel, Doctor Bethany bernarda Vielona, Joe Jackelone,

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Speaker 1: doctor Tim Gallagher, Jen Smith. Everybody please jump in. We

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Speaker 1: have an expert joining us right now, film producer and

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Speaker 1: director of the Killing Season, an eight part series on

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Speaker 1: the Gilg Killer airing right now. You can stream it

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Speaker 1: at Hulu, Amazon Prime and AETV. Okay, Well that's that,

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Speaker 1: just think in. This guy has produced and directed an

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Speaker 1: eight part series on the Gilg Beach killer and ties

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Speaker 1: to other victims in the area. Josh Zeeman is joining us. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know what, Josh, I just got chills on my

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Speaker 1: arm thinking about, and not in a good way, in

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Speaker 1: the scary way, thinking about the Eastbound Strangler and the

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Speaker 1: Manival Butcher as he has called because he dismember bodies. Josh,

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Speaker 1: what do you think right now?

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Speaker 9: It's really hard to kind of put it all together.

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Speaker 9: I mean, you know, the defendant. Is he even considered

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Speaker 9: to be the Manerville Butcher? That's the first and big question. Yes,

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Speaker 9: the gilg Beach four, the Manaville Butcher, we don't quite know.

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Speaker 9: And we're talking about six other victims who are found

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Speaker 9: basically around the Gilgo Beach four, the Manerville Butcher, yes,

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Speaker 9: probably the Eastbound Strangler. I don't know. That's it's really tough.

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Speaker 9: I mean, we're talking about four women, all sex workers,

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Speaker 9: all found in close proximity to each other, all found

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Speaker 9: near water. There's a lot of similarities, but there's also

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Speaker 9: a lot of differences too.

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Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, just an Joe Jackalone is joining US.

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Speaker 1: Former NYPD sergeant, Colgate investigator and author of the cold

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Speaker 1: Case handbook, Wow he really wrote the book Cheryl mccollin,

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Speaker 1: when are you gonna write a book for Pete's sake?

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Speaker 1: And the Criminal Investigative Function a guide for new investigators.

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Speaker 1: The guy has literally written the book and you can

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Speaker 1: find him at Joseph jaquelone spelled g I A C

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Speaker 1: A l O n E. Okay, completely different than the

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Speaker 1: way it sounds dot com. Joe, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. You know, I hear Josh Zeeman and I

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Speaker 1: agree the three hours drive for the Ace Bounce strangler

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Speaker 1: doesn't bother me at all. That's no, that doesn't bother

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Speaker 1: me for someone that at that point in his killing

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Speaker 1: career wants to dump bodies further away from his home.

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Speaker 1: Now the Manivil Butcher, Josh, weren't some of the body

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Speaker 1: parts of the Mannerval Butcher victims found at Gilgo Beach.

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Speaker 9: I mean, yeah, that's the crazy thing. How are there

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Speaker 9: two serial killers dumping bodies in the same place. Yeah,

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Speaker 9: you know, for a long time we didn't really quite

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Speaker 9: think the tour connected. But one of the biggest issues

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Speaker 9: is the defendants google searches. In his Google search, it

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Speaker 9: comes up Asian twink, which really is a kind of

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Speaker 9: like kink that's identified with an Asian kind of effeminate man.

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Speaker 9: And when we saw that Google search, suddenly I think

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Speaker 9: a lot of us were like, hmm, maybe he is

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Speaker 9: the manor.

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Speaker 1: Of Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, how likely is

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Speaker 1: that jackeline that two serial killers are dumping bodies and

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Speaker 1: body parts at the same stretch of beach.

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Speaker 3: It's unlikely. And also just from being a copy myself

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Speaker 3: on Cherry will tell you, we don't believe in coincidences, right,

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Speaker 3: So from the very beginning, I always thought it was

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Speaker 3: one individual responsive responsible for all of these And I'll

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Speaker 3: tell you what people say, Well, these people, you know,

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Speaker 3: the first four Peaches and Jessica Taylor and Valerie Mack

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Speaker 3: were all cut up, and then you know, remains were

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Speaker 3: left in Manorville and Empstead, State Lake Park and Fire

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Speaker 3: Island Jane Goe. But you know, and now the other

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Speaker 3: Gilgal fort rely intact. And it's because my belief is

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Speaker 3: that this individual pick those girls up off the street

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Speaker 3: and he was worried about somebody seeing them get in

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Speaker 3: the car, and that's so he had to try to

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Speaker 3: dismember him to try to make sure that the police

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Speaker 3: couldn't identify him, so nothing would lead back to him.

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Speaker 3: The gill Go for all done anonymously what he thought

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Speaker 3: with burn of phones on the internet, and there was

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Speaker 3: no need to dismember those bodies. That has been my

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Speaker 3: working theory from the beginning, and I'm going to stick

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Speaker 3: with it. At this point. I can't. There's no going back.

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Speaker 3: So the issue that comes down to is we now

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Speaker 3: have all of the electronic records and I'm sure with

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Speaker 3: this Atlantic city trip that everybody's now focusing and on.

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Speaker 3: You have to pay tolls to get there, easy pass records,

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Speaker 3: cell phone towers all along the way. We have all

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Speaker 3: his phones, or at least seven of them. So that

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Speaker 3: digital evidence, I think will kind of determine exactly what

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Speaker 3: we're looking at, if we're looking at all.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I want to out to process everything you just

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Speaker 1: said except a huge data dump right there, and every

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Speaker 1: word of it was significant. Joining me Chief investigative reporter,

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Speaker 1: dailymail dot com, Jen, give me the framework, the time

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Speaker 1: framework of the Gilg Beach killings, the Gilg four they

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Speaker 1: started and stopped when I could just look at my

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Speaker 1: notes that I've made. Is this correct? Two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 1: twenty ten for Gilgo.

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Speaker 6: No, not quite the earliest that the girls went missing

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Speaker 6: with around two thousand and nine, but the bodies were

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Speaker 6: all discovered in two thousand and ten.

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Speaker 1: But we know it's in that area. Two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 1: twenty ten. You're saying two thousand and nine.

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Speaker 8: Correct.

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Speaker 1: Here comes my question, Eastbound Strangler. Everybody jump in. If

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Speaker 1: these numbers are if these dates are wrong, East Bounce

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Speaker 1: Strangler two thousand and six, is that the discovery of

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Speaker 1: the Okay? All right, so hold on, I'm working very

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Speaker 1: slowly working out something. Then we have the manner of

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Speaker 1: old Butcher victims ninety three ninety four.

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Speaker 9: Ish, right, that's correct.

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Speaker 1: There are also unattributed Long Island murder victims nineteen ninety

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Speaker 1: seven to two thousand and three. What I'm saying is,

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Speaker 1: I have basically a linear line, speaking of redundancy, I

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Speaker 1: have a linear chronology of murders starting back in ninety three.

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Speaker 1: You got the Maniabald Butcher murders in ninety three, starting

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Speaker 1: then where the bodies would be dismembered, then from about

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Speaker 1: ninety seven to two thousand and three, multiple other victims

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Speaker 1: two thousand and six. East Found Strangler two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 1: To twenty ten the Gilgo victims. I mean it just said, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know what. Let me go to BERNARDA Violona, who

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Speaker 1: actually worked in the homicide Bureau with one of the

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Speaker 1: guild current Gilgo case prosecutors. She's a higher profile criminal

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Speaker 1: defense attorney, former prosecutor in New York and you can

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Speaker 1: find her at via Lona law dot com. Bernarda, do

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Speaker 1: you remember the very first case you ever tried? You

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Speaker 1: don't need to tell me about it, but do you remember?

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Speaker 7: Absolutely? Okay, antee, absolutely, and it was a cold case.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember the last case? Do you remember the

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Speaker 1: last case?

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Speaker 7: You tried to remember the first case, in the last case,

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Speaker 7: but definitely the first case case. It was cold case,

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Speaker 7: and cold cases are the most difficult cases.

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Speaker 1: How much did you improve? How much did I improve

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Speaker 1: from my first case of an attimpted shoplifting to the

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Speaker 1: last case where I had a serial killer? How much

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Speaker 1: did you hone your craft?

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Speaker 7: Oh? My god, one hundred. I mean I'm a different

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Speaker 7: person now, a completely different person, completely attorney.

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Speaker 1: I'm getting a signed waved at me by Jackie Human

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Speaker 1: would have been twenty nine in nineteen ninety three. Okay, yes,

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Speaker 1: how long was Bundy, wasn't he? And doctor Bethay Marshall

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Speaker 1: jump in with me here. I'm trying to talk about

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Speaker 1: what I say as a chronological a very clear line,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall, high profile psychoanalysts joining us out of

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Speaker 1: Beverly Hills where they're all worried about which designer bag

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Speaker 1: goes with which designer outfit. But hey, everybody's got problems

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Speaker 1: you can find, right, doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Bethany jump in, Well, here's what.

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Speaker 5: I think about the chronology. Sure, at the beginning, he's

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Speaker 5: just working up the courage to begin killing people, so

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Speaker 5: maybe he won't be as talented at it. But see,

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Speaker 5: one of the things we know about serial killers, and

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Speaker 5: this is sort of in the literature, and it's known

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Speaker 5: in my field, is that they do kill a few

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Speaker 5: victims at a time, and then they go underground, and

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Speaker 5: then they start they have another killing spree, and then

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Speaker 5: they go underground. And the question is why is that.

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Speaker 5: The reason that they do that is that they have

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Speaker 5: such solific santasy lives. Now, remember, serial killing is motivated

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Speaker 5: by sex, right, the desire to inflict cruelty, to kill

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Speaker 5: in order to achieve sexual arousal well, because these guys

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Speaker 5: have such prolific fantasy lives. They can take a trophy

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Speaker 5: or a body part and they can fantasize, they can think,

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Speaker 5: they can go on the internet, they can plan their

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Speaker 5: next crime, and then they pop up and then there's

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Speaker 5: another cluster of killings. And that's what I'm seeing in

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Speaker 5: the chronology is there are clusters. You know, he kills

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Speaker 5: like the sort of the four women that are faced east,

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Speaker 5: and then he goes underground again, and then he pops

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Speaker 5: up again, the idea of that three hour drive. I'm

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Speaker 5: sorry to keep bringing this back to sex, but I

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Speaker 5: think that sex addicts people are sexually compulsive. They do

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Speaker 5: drive a lot. They're looking just they masturbate the lot,

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Speaker 5: they fantasize a lot. They're looking for that right next

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Speaker 5: victim or person that they're in our hook up with.

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Speaker 5: So speak of it as a compulsion, and there's a

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Speaker 5: lot of time spent in the compulsion. And also we're

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Speaker 5: just focusing on the people who died. He may have

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Speaker 5: been having sex with a lot of people every day,

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Speaker 5: hooking up a lot, dating a lot, you know, calling

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Speaker 5: women a lot. So the deaths have come to our attention.

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Speaker 5: We have to remember that this is a man who's thinking, acting, masturbating, looking,

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Speaker 5: calling all the time. There's a huge amount of energy.

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Speaker 1: I let me throw something in there. Of course, the

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Speaker 1: guy's got seven burner phones plus his regular phone. What

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Speaker 1: do you think he's doing again, Ladies, your husband or

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Speaker 1: boyfriend gets a burner phone, you get a lawyer. Okay, bye,

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Speaker 1: by But I'm thinking I'm not. I'm in the same

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Speaker 1: boat with josh A Zeeman. I'm ready to consider the

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Speaker 1: man of Oal Butcher killings. I've got to know more

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Speaker 1: about the Eastbound strangler, although that mo modus operandi in

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Speaker 1: Eastbound seems more similar to me. The man of Old

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Speaker 1: Butcher puts body parts of his dismember victims at Gilgo

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Speaker 1: Beach with the Gilgo for bodies and the other bodies

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Speaker 1: found there. MENI menie bodies. I mean, are you ready

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Speaker 1: to believe that there's a coincidence that there's a serial

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Speaker 1: killer convention and several of them are leaving bodies there.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Tim Gallagher is with US Medical Examiner for the

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Speaker 1: State of Florida. You can find him at pathcaremed dot com.

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Speaker 1: Lecturer University of Florida Medical school and Forensic Medicine, founder

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Speaker 1: of the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. Just in

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Speaker 1: a nutshell if that's possible. I mean, you studied what

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Speaker 1: seven years and med school than the undergrad and the

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Speaker 1: residency and all that, and I ask you to put

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Speaker 1: it in a nutshell, DoD de Gallagh or how hard

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Speaker 1: is it truly difficult to dismember a body?

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Speaker 10: Well, I think that's something important to talk about here, Nancy.

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Speaker 10: The way the body has been dismembered can also lead

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Speaker 10: to is it one killer or is it two? If

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Speaker 10: the body was surgically dismembered, for instance, if the knife.

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Speaker 10: If a knife was used and it was between the joints,

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Speaker 10: the person would have to know about anatomy and where

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Speaker 10: exactly to cut it, so they would leave virtually no

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Speaker 10: marks on any of the bones with the knife. If

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Speaker 10: the person had used as say an electrical saw, you know,

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Speaker 10: to cut through the bones, just say as a butcher,

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Speaker 10: would you know that can and all the bodies who

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Speaker 10: were dismembered were dismembered in the same way, that could

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Speaker 10: lead to one or two killers. So it's important to

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Speaker 10: look at the ends of the bones when they are

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Speaker 10: found to see if the bones were surgically dissected from

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Speaker 10: each other, for instance, the knife was gone through the joints,

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Speaker 10: or if a electrical saw type device was used which

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Speaker 10: left teeth marks and damage to the bones while the

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Speaker 10: person was cutting through. If the damage to the bones

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Speaker 10: were the same in each of the body parts that

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Speaker 10: were found, then we could attribute that to the same person.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 10: So, but as far as dismembering a person, it takes

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Speaker 10: a lot of energy. It's a lot a lot of energy.

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Speaker 10: It's it's not for the meek, it's not for somebody.

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Speaker 9: Who is weak.

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Speaker 3: It's and.

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Speaker 10: The actual pattern to look for will help you decide

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Speaker 10: whether it's one or two killers.

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Speaker 1: You know, online, everyone is not everyone. A lot of

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Speaker 1: people are saying, oh, it's just like Dexter. It's not

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Speaker 1: just like Dexter number one. That's pretend number one, number two.

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Speaker 1: Dexter was killing bad guys. This guy is killing, stalking,

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Speaker 1: torturing and killing women and children. Because isn't there a child?

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Speaker 1: Wasn't there a child found? Jan Smith? Or an eastbound strangler?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, there was.

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Speaker 6: It wasn't the eastbound strangler, Nancy. It was one of

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Speaker 6: the Manorville victims. There was a toddler found with the

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Speaker 6: mother Peaches correct, Yeah, so the mother is unidentified to

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Speaker 6: the Jane Doe. And investigators obviously were so struck by

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Speaker 6: the tragedy of this they didn't want to refer to

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Speaker 6: a toddler girl as a Jane Doe, so they came

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Speaker 6: up with the name Peaches for her. And I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 6: that's that would have been the Manavilla Butcher.

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Speaker 1: Thank you guys, speaking out of the Manibald Butcher. Takelas

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Speaker 1: knock cut one thirty nine ABC seven Today, we are

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Speaker 1: announcing that Jane Do number six has been positively identified

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Speaker 1: as Valerie Mac.

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Speaker 11: It has been twenty years since the family of vale

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Speaker 11: Mary Mack has seen her smile or hurt her laugh.

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Speaker 11: The twenty four year old was last sing in the

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Speaker 11: spring of two thousand, about one hundred miles away from Philly.

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Speaker 11: In November of that year, the partial remains of a

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Speaker 11: woman were found in Manorville. More than ten years later,

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Speaker 11: more remains were discovered in Gilgo Beach State Park in

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Speaker 11: April of twenty eleven.

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Speaker 1: Gilgo, Gilgo, Gilgo. We keep hearing Gilgo dead bodies, body parts,

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Speaker 1: and there's another similarity. Take a listen to our friends

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Speaker 1: at PIXI eleven in our cut one four two.

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Speaker 12: Jessica Taylor and Valerie Mack, another dismembered victim found in Manerville,

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Speaker 12: were tied to the Gilgo Beach serial killer or killers.

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Speaker 12: Two law enforcement sources told me they were tied up

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Speaker 12: in a very cruel way, one saying their leg area

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Speaker 12: was bound in a ball. You'd have to be a

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Speaker 12: hunter to do something like that. The second source said

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Speaker 12: the knees were brought into their chest area.

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Speaker 1: Josh Zeeman joining us director of the Killing Season, an

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Speaker 1: eight part series on the Gilg killer and ties to

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Speaker 1: other victims in the area. Weren't the Gilg victims bound

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Speaker 1: as well?

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Speaker 9: Yeah, In fact, one was bound with a belt, so

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Speaker 9: the bounding is similar for sure. You know that's another

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Speaker 9: big issue. I mean, how are body parts being left

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Speaker 9: in Manorville the same body parts being left in Gilgo Beach.

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Speaker 9: It's just two coincidental.

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Speaker 1: How far is Manerval from Gilgo Beach?

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Speaker 9: Fifty miles? Joe, how far is it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I was gonna say about anywhere from forty to

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Speaker 3: forty five.

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Speaker 1: Miles And listen, forty five miles an hour, an hour

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Speaker 1: and a half, maybe in the car, but late at night,

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Speaker 1: cut that down to fifty minutes one hour. If you

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Speaker 1: had to get rid of a dead body, how far

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Speaker 1: would you drive in the middle of the night to that.

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Speaker 1: I would definitely drive at least an hour or two

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Speaker 1: hours or three hours to get rid of a dead body.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm curious about.

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Speaker 3: Well, it would be on his way home. It would

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Speaker 3: be on his way home.

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Speaker 7: So if he was.

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Speaker 3: Whoever's responsib lets just say it's the suspect they have.

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Speaker 3: Now on the way going to Mariability, you would just

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Speaker 3: pop down onto the Saddutos, go all the way down

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Speaker 3: to the Southern State, right over the Robert Moses right

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Speaker 3: into Gilgo Gilgo, right into the Walstor Falkway, right right

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Speaker 3: to Messapika. I mean, it's just it's just you know,

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Speaker 3: it's a direct route. I mean, and Josh would say

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Speaker 3: you too. For of us who grew up on Long Island,

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Speaker 3: I mean, you just don't find Gilgo Beach. It's not

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Speaker 3: like you can stumble upon it. You have to know

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Speaker 3: it's there. So it's just to me, it's just interesting

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Speaker 3: because when you look at a map and you look

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Speaker 3: at where Maniver was in Hempstead Lake State Park and

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Speaker 3: everything else in massa Peaka. Now it all comes into

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Speaker 3: a into a circle.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that is incredibly primitive or prove something to me.

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Speaker 1: Are you telling me? Is this Joe Jacqueline speaking Yes, Joe,

431
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 1: are you telling me that humans? And again he has

432
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: not been charged in Mannerable or eastbound. We're exploring the similarities.

433
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: Are you telling me Jacqueline that humans drive home goes

434
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: through Gilgo in Mannerable.

435
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying is that if you look

436
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 3: at the map, you look at where he lives, and

437
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 3: look at where the bodies are recovered and the parts

438
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 3: of the bodies are covered, it's basically like an oval

439
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 3: or a circle. So you can connect all the dots

440
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 3: and put them all within that oval, and you know,

441
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 3: be able to try to pinpoint it. And that's what

442
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 3: we've seen investigators do already with even the cell phone

443
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 3: records where they pinpointed him down at the Massapequa into Manhattan.

444
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 3: And I think they're going to try to do the

445
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 3: same thing with these cases. Just that do they have

446
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 3: the records from way back when? I mean, we know

447
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 3: they don't have them from the ninety six cases in

448
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,120
Speaker 3: the ninety seven cases because it was still I don't

449
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 3: think they got anything back then, because I don't think

450
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 3: much of this existed. So the issue that comes down

451
00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 3: to is you can make it. You can make a point.

452
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 1: Okay, coming from someone with no accent at all me,

453
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: could you slow down your New York keys and tell

454
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: me what you identify on the map as a would

455
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: be route by heroman or let's just pretend the killer

456
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: go ahead.

457
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 3: It depends on where he's picking these girls up. But

458
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 3: if you look at manord you can make a direct

459
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 3: line right to Gilgo Beach right from Manorville if you

460
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 3: if you come from mess apeakqut, you can make a

461
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 3: direct route to Gilgo no problem. You make a good

462
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 3: direct route at Hempstead Lake State Park be home within

463
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 3: you know, a half an hour back and forth. And

464
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 3: of course, anybody who's ever written in the Southern State

465
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 3: Parkway knows that timing is everything. So if you're doing

466
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 3: this in the middle of the night, you're you're pretty good.

467
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 3: If you're trying to do this at three o'clock in

468
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 3: the afternoon, it'll take you a long time to do so.

469
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 3: But it's plausible.

470
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: And he mentioned something really interesting. Josh Zeeman, filmmaker, producer,

471
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: director of the Killing season in eight part series on Gilgo. Josh,

472
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about what he's saying regarding the route and

473
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: what he said that you'd have to know the area

474
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: to even find Gilgo Beach. Everybody pause and think of

475
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: a place in your hometown, a place not many people

476
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: would know about that a local only somebody that lived

477
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 1: in that area would know. What do you make of that, Josh,

478
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: Someone that knows Manfal, that knows Gilgo, that knows the

479
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: state park.

480
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 9: Nancy, I think we can get even more specific than that.

481
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 9: We know he's a hunter. We know he had what

482
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 9: two hundred and ninety five guns and probably other hunting implements.

483
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 9: We know that he buried the GB four in camouflage,

484
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 9: so we know he's a hunter. We know he's a duck.

485
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 9: Hunters Gilgo because he went hunting there, and some of

486
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,959
Speaker 9: the other victims who were found in Manerville were found

487
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 9: by hunters. So I believe he knows both areas from

488
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 9: his hunting. The question is what is he hunting?

489
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: Okay, you just gave me a lot of critical information.

490
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: Would you say that one more time? Plase, Well, the

491
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: question is the hunting aspect. Actually, I've got hunter circled

492
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: on my notes. It says one investigator saying, their leg

493
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: area this is mannerable victims. Their leg area was bound

494
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: in a ball. You'd have to be a hunter to

495
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: do something like that. That was their quote. Okay, would

496
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: you tell me that again? Please?

497
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 9: Just that The reason one of the reasons why he

498
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 9: knows these areas outside of being a long islander is

499
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 9: because he's a hunter. We know he's a hunter. We

500
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,479
Speaker 9: know he's a duck hunter. We know he had a

501
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 9: huge collection of weapons, hunting implements. We know that the

502
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:01,959
Speaker 9: Gilgo Beach four were wrapped in burlap cam so Gilgo

503
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 9: Beach duck hunters use it. And even a hunter found

504
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 9: one of the victims in Manerville. So I think hunting

505
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 9: kind of ties this all together. You know, are we

506
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,479
Speaker 9: hunting individuals or are we hunting animals? There's just a

507
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 9: lot of connections to the idea of being a.

508
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: Hunter, you know, Josh Ziemon, I see what you're saying.

509
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying about the connection between Manival,

510
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: the book Manibal Butcher, and the Gilgo serial killer. Time

511
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace, the modus operandi. Cheryl McCollum, Cold

512
00:30:54,360 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: Case Investigative Research Institute founder, changes like Bernardo, who's being

513
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: unusually quiet today? Via Lona, you hone, you hone. Okay,

514
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: here's a simple comparison. In my first jury trial, I

515
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: thought that's when women thought they had to dress link men.

516
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: I had on the shirt up to my chin, the

517
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: long sleeves, the long sleeved jacket, the skirt, the weirdly

518
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: ivory hose, the flats, my hair up on my head,

519
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: and one of those fake ties that women used to wear,

520
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: like a rosette or something stuck in my throat. By

521
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: that was the week the air condition went out in

522
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: the Folding County Courthouse and I was on the fifth floor.

523
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: By the time that trial was over, my hair was

524
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: on one side of my head, had all black eyeliner

525
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: coming down my face. The jacket was gone, the shirt

526
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: was untacked. I don't know what happened to that rosette.

527
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: Long story short, simply put, I adapted. I changed the

528
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: way I gave it clothing, the way I did directs,

529
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: cross exams. Everything changes. But Nancy, he could have honed

530
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: his craft.

531
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 7: Is that, yes, Nancy? So you have to think we

532
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 7: don't know when human started his little serial killing. We

533
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 7: don't know where's started, where was his first kill, who

534
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 7: was his first killed, Where did it happen, When did

535
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 7: it happen. So what we encountered is just the gil

536
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 7: Go Beach murders, and that being the four women. But

537
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 7: he's only charged for three. And these are the questions

538
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 7: in the clues that investigators are trying to find. And

539
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 7: those questions that we've been talking about all day are

540
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 7: the same things that investigators are like, wait, could it

541
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 7: have started in this area, could have started New Jersey,

542
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 7: could have Starne in South Carolina, could have started in Nevattom.

543
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 7: Where's the first killed? Because there's no way that you

544
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 7: start right with Gilgo. There's something more to it. You

545
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 7: started simple, with a simpler murder than just this, because

546
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 7: this seems to have been well planned. Where you're talking

547
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 7: about getting these bodies to gil Go beachhet bat he

548
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 7: made to jump in about the hunting.

549
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 5: You know, people who have compulsions tend to have habits

550
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 5: that relate to the compulsions. So let's say he has

551
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 5: the compulsion to kill, compulsion to inflict cruelty, So the

552
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 5: hunting is related to the compulsion, just like somebody who's

553
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 5: an alcoholic may begin to uh make craft beers, right,

554
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 5: because that is related to the compulsion. So he probably

555
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 5: had a lot of activities in his life, you know,

556
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 5: the idea of dismembering the bodies, whether that was for pleasure,

557
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 5: sexual pleasure, or also because he was trying to cover

558
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 5: his tracks. It was probably a little bit of both.

559
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 3: You know, did he do would work?

560
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 5: I hate to say, I mean, I hate to be

561
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 5: so crass about it, but I'm sure we're going to

562
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 5: learn that he has a lot of habits that relate

563
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 5: to his compulsions.

564
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: Hey, Nancy, can I get back to our perfect I

565
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: just wanted to point out classic example Ted Bundy. He

566
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: started picking up women that Oh I'm so happy Ted

567
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 1: Bundy start off. There's another aspect to Bundy. I bet

568
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: this is not what you were going to say. He

569
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 1: started picking up female university students, but then he shifted

570
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: and no longer was picking up university students. In the end,

571
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: he went back to murdering them in their place. But

572
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: at the beginning he tried to pick them up. But

573
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: I bet you've got a different change in mo.

574
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 8: I do's he dismembered some of his victims, He strangled

575
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 8: some with pantyhose, and then he picked up a log

576
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 8: and performed blunt force trauma. The mo can change. He

577
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 8: can fool you because his fantasies will also change. Ted

578
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 8: Bundy had adults primarily, and then all of a sudden

579
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 8: he has a twelve year old child. It does change. So,

580
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 8: for example, when we're looking at these different pockets of

581
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 8: victims that were taken from a similar area, look at

582
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 8: the Asian male. The Asian male was found wearing women's clothing.

583
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 8: My question is whose clothes were they? Because all the

584
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 8: other victims were found nude, he wasn't, So I want

585
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 8: to know when he googled the Asian tink was that

586
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 8: before or after the murder? That timeline is going to

587
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 8: be crucial in telling you his mindset with that murder.

588
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 1: Speaking of m a modus operandi method of operation, Take

589
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,760
Speaker 1: a listener cut one two six and one two seven

590
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: from the Killing Season. Listen.

591
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 13: There were in all ten bodies that were found a

592
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 13: Long Ocean parkway. Some were dismembered and some were found intact.

593
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 13: The Gilgo Beach four, which is the three women plus

594
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 13: one that Rex was has been arrested for. They were

595
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 13: all found intact, so the police kind of because of

596
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 13: that mo they basically grouped them together and they called

597
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,959
Speaker 13: them the Gilgo Beach Four. The question becomes, what about

598
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 13: these other six victims dismemberment it's different mo O, and

599
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 13: this is hard to talk about, but is it the

600
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,760
Speaker 13: same killer or is it different? You know, some experts

601
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 13: would say that it's completely different. Other people would say, no,

602
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 13: this guy was just dismembering body parts in the beginning,

603
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,959
Speaker 13: and then he got lazy because he didn't get caught,

604
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 13: and then was leaving bodies whole. So that's where this

605
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 13: whole confusion comes from.

606
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: Okay, you're hearing our new friend Josh Zeeman speaking. Explain

607
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: to me. Josh and Phil, don't feel fenced in or

608
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: limited by my question. Explain to me when you said

609
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: he just got lazy.

610
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 9: I mean, that's a question that has been brought up.

611
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 9: And look, I'm not an expert. We have a lot

612
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 9: of experts on this panel who know far more than

613
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 9: I do. I'm just a documentarian, but I do.

614
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 1: Want to stop right there. Zaemon, You've done an eight

615
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: part series on the Gilgo Beach Killer and ties to

616
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: other victims, So go ahead.

617
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 9: Okay, So the question just becomes and I throw this

618
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 9: out to the rest of the panel. Do we have

619
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 9: examples of serial killers basically getting lazy? I mean they

620
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 9: take all these early forensic countermeasures. Yes, could the dismemberment

621
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 9: be part of some type of pleasure as well? Is

622
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 9: it also a forensic countermeasure? And then you know, he

623
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 9: doesn't get caught for so long. We're talking about nineteen

624
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 9: ninety three, when the first started, nineteen ninety six, when

625
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 9: the first victim Fire Island Jane Doe disappeared, going all

626
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 9: the way to when the Gilgo Beach floor disappeared about

627
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 9: ten twelve years later. So could he get lazy? That's

628
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 9: my question? Could he change his mo because hey, he

629
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 9: just wasn't caught.

630
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 8: Nancy, I'd like to answer that.

631
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: Could I stop him?

632
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 8: He didn't go ahead, He didn't get lazy, He got comfortable.

633
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 8: There's a difference. We see it in law enforcement. Sometimes

634
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 8: you get very comfortable in your zone among your people,

635
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 8: and maybe you're not on a you know, on a

636
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 8: swivel looking for problems to be in situationally aware. This

637
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:14,439
Speaker 8: man full time researched Google read about downloaded torture poor.

638
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 8: He drove extensively looking for places, peaking dumping grounds. He

639
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 8: contacted sex workers all the time. This was something he

640
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 8: did full time. He was absolutely not lazy.

641
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:32,800
Speaker 1: Point, as I may, I was just going to you,

642
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: chief investigative reporter dailymail dot com. I was going to

643
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: ask you a different question. But let's se what you

644
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: were going to say.

645
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 6: Well, that's a really important, crucial point. The reason that

646
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 6: they hold Rax here him and was because they felt

647
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 6: as if their investigation was complete. It was because he

648
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 6: was continuing to contact sex workers, using burner phones and

649
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 6: making arrangements to meet with more women who investigators were

650
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 6: frankly terrified that he might stripe again. They were watching

651
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 6: him for a year before they brought him in, and

652
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 6: he was continuing.

653
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, Jen Smith, I read every single thing

654
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: you write about this on dailymail dot com and far

655
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: far beyond. I want you to explain what you just

656
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: said about how he was continuing to contact sex workers

657
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 1: up to the time of his arrest. But I saw

658
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: the photo that you first published of Rex Huerman in

659
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 1: a cell phone oh store, buying additional minutes. Oh no, yeah, yeah,

660
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: buying additional minutes at least. I think I saw it

661
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: on Deli mod buying additional minutes for his burner phone.

662
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: If David Lynch popped up on video at a cell

663
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 1: phone store buying more minutes for his burner phone, oh yeah,

664
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 1: I'm changing the locks then that minute. And what else

665
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 1: is he gonna do on a burner phone? That's his

666
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 1: mo o. But now you are adding to that and saying,

667
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: not only was he buying the additional minutes, he's got

668
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: down the water on that. But we know for a

669
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: fact he was contacting sex workers up until the time

670
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,959
Speaker 1: of his arrest. And that woman, I believe she said

671
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: July four, July seven, he approached her in a very

672
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: aggressive manner out in the public park. She got so

673
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: afraid that she called her sister and said, I need

674
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: to come home right now, right. It was all happening

675
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: up until the moment of his arrest.

676
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 6: Absolutely know he was brazen. He did not feel like

677
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 6: he had anything to worry about, and he was continuing

678
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 6: to behave in a way that that he had been

679
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 6: for decades. I mean, they really were worried about him

680
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 6: striking again. That's why they arrested him. You know where

681
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 6: they arrested him outside his office in Manhattan. They did

682
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 6: that away from the home where he kept two hundred

683
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 6: and seventy nine or two hundred and ninety five firearms.

684
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 6: They were worried about standoff, Nancy. That's why they hold

685
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 6: him in. This guy was dangerous.

686
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,959
Speaker 1: You know, I want to just zero in on something

687
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: that we're all talking about. You know, Cheryl McCollum, you

688
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: say tomato. Let's just say I say tomato. You say tomato.

689
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 1: But Zeeman, Josh Zeeman says he got lazy, You say

690
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: he got comfortable. Joe, Jacqueline and BERNARDA Volona with me, Joe,

691
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: isn't that always the way? I mean, the first time

692
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 1: I backed out of our garage, I nearly took off

693
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,919
Speaker 1: the side mirror. Well, guess what, I don't even slow down.

694
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: Now you become comfortable. Some people might call it lazy,

695
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,720
Speaker 1: but isn't that the way it always happens?

696
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know, if.

697
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:41,760
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Joe, Jackolone.

698
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if it's always that way. But

699
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 3: I always try to find because I have actually investigated

700
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 3: these kinds of cases, and you try to find where

701
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 3: that first or second one happened. Because that's the time

702
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 3: when this individual made the most mistakes, and that's where

703
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,399
Speaker 3: you as an investigator try to exploit this so right,

704
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 3: and so we get arrogant.

705
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 5: Criminals never think they're going to get caught. I mean,

706
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 5: that's just the thing. I mean when even with white

707
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 5: collar crimes we see that increasingly they failed.

708
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 7: That's it right there. That's it right there, is that

709
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 7: they never think they're going to get caught. And you

710
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 7: have to think that Rex Humorman, remember he had over

711
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 7: a ten year had start on us because he did

712
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,399
Speaker 7: not become a suspect until just last year, twenty twenty two.

713
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 7: So of course he thought he wasn't going to get caught.

714
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 7: That's why he continued acting the way that he was

715
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 7: acting and why the prosecution and law enforcement had to

716
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 7: move in to stop them because they thought that he

717
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 7: was about to kill again.

718
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: Where does it stand right now, Jenn Smith? The investigation

719
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 1: the status of Rex Hureman, the alleged Long Island serial killer.

720
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 6: Well, they've completed their start of his host and this

721
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 6: took a long time, well over you know, a couple

722
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 6: of weeks, and they've seized a lot of evidence. We

723
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 6: don't know exactly yet, but we're surely going to find out.

724
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:03,879
Speaker 6: Rex remain in custody's no bail. Obviously, he is due

725
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 6: back in court in early August.

726
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 7: Non states.

727
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 6: So far he is seeded not guilty via his attorneys,

728
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 6: but that was very early on. That was before he

729
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 6: knew exactly what the authorities have against him.

730
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, when will he be in court in August?

731
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 3: Where?

732
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 6: Or when?

733
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 7: When? When?

734
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:21,879
Speaker 6: August first?

735
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 3: August first?

736
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,319
Speaker 1: And that is for what an arrangement, doesn't yeah as well?

737
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 9: See no, that's for a conference.

738
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 7: It's for a conference because he's already been arranged and

739
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 7: he's been indicted. So now it's going to be a

740
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 7: series of motions and scheduling, motions and scheduling to see

741
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 7: even possibly whether we can get.

742
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 6: A trial day.

743
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. But for you out there

744
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:48,399
Speaker 1: that know or think you know anything about the Long

745
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:53,280
Speaker 1: Island serial killings, the Manibal Butcher killings, or the Eastbound

746
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 1: Strangler killings, please now eight hundred to two zero tips,

747
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: eight hundred to two zero O T I p S. Goodbye, friend,