1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How many times do you 2 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: wheel into the grocery store or them All or Target 3 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: and you hop out of your car and you're race in, 4 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: barely looking behind you. Maybe you think to keep the 5 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: lock on the mini van? How many times do you 6 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:36,319 Speaker 1: do that? A week, a month, a year? Guys, I'm 7 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: about to tell you the stories, the true stories of 8 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: some young ladies that did exactly what we do every day, 9 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: but they never made it home. Does the name Kelsey 10 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: Smith ring a bell? It's the name I'll never forget. 11 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: Listen to this. Saturday, June second, two thousand and seven, 12 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: Kelsey left her house to go to Target. She was 13 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 1: going to buy a gift for her boyfriend for their 14 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: six month anniversary. She was talking to her mother on 15 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: the phone at Target, found which you wanted, went to 16 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: the checkout stand, and basically, I think, closed out a 17 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: phone conversation with her mother saying I'll see you in 18 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: a little bit. Kelsey was supposed to meet her boyfriend 19 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 1: John at the house at seven thirty. She had spoken 20 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: to her mom at Target at seven seven thirty. Rolls 21 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: around Kelsey's not home. She wasn't answering text messages. She 22 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: wasn't answering phone calls. That was a media caused for 23 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: concern that something's up. The distance from Target to the 24 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: Smith's house probably an eight minute drive, and didn't take 25 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: them long to realize that something's not right. Her boyfriend 26 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: waits around for about a half hour. He's calling her, 27 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: he's texting her, and she's not answering. He starts to 28 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: become really concerned, and that's when he calls Kelsey's dad, 29 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: Greg with me an all star panel to break it 30 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: down and put it back together again. And let me 31 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: tell you, we are not trying to make you afraid 32 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: of going to Target or the grocery store, of them 33 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: all trying to arm you with information to protect you 34 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: and your children. It took me two years to research 35 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: and write Don't Be a Victim Fighting Back against America's 36 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: crime Wave. Proceeds are going to National Center for Missing 37 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: and Exploited Children. When I began writing the part of 38 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: this book about protecting yourself while shopping, the first person 39 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: that sprang to my mind was Kelsey Smith. For so 40 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: many different reasons me Doctor Dewe. Joff ellis psychologist, Professor 41 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: Columbia Jason Ocean, renowned attorney joining me out of New York. 42 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: Richard Truntz, private investigator with Crispin Special Investigations out of Liquidille. 43 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: Former police officer, doctor Tim Gallagher the medical examiner for 44 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: the entire state of Florida, and you can find him 45 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: at pathcaremed dot com for your forensic needs. Sierra Gillespie 46 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com, investigative reporter. But first I want 47 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: to go to who I consider a friend, the father 48 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: of Kelsey. Greg. Thank you for being with us. Greg. 49 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: I'm actually getting chill bumps on my arms and legs 50 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: right now because I remember when we spoke and all 51 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: you and your family went through when Kelsey went missing. 52 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: What do you remember? You know, I have children now 53 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: and you're never going to believe it. Greg, They're about 54 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: to turn thirteen, and you're a little girl, just five 55 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: years older than my little Lucy. What do you remember 56 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: of that night when Kelsey went missing? It was it's 57 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: tough to describe. I mean, I didn't want to believe 58 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: that anything had happened to her, but it was so 59 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: out of character for her to not come home when 60 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:41,039 Speaker 1: she said that she would be there. So the whole 61 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 1: evening as it unrolled, she was going to shop, like 62 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: you said, to get a gift for her boyfriend, and 63 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: then they were going to go out. She was supposed 64 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: to be back at the house to meet him, and 65 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: she wasn't there on time, and we couldn't get ahold 66 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: of her by phone. On again, this is two thousand 67 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 1: and seven, so cell phones are not quite as ubiquitous 68 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 1: as they are now, but still a lot of people 69 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 1: had them. Texting was all the raids back then. Of course, 70 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:07,799 Speaker 1: that was back when you got charged for every text 71 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: that you made. I can tell you about phone, but 72 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: not being able to get a hold of her was 73 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: our first queue that something had gone wrong. And then secondly, 74 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: my parents lived out. I knew where she was at. 75 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: I knew she'd gone to the target. My parents lived 76 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: out that way. They drove by the target and didn't 77 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: see her car, but they continued to drive around and 78 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: there's a mall right across the street from the Target, 79 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: and they saw her car there. Oh gosh, okay, wait 80 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: wait wait, wait wait, I'm just getting that feeling. She 81 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: doesn't answer the phone. She always picks the phone up. 82 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: You know, she made it to target because she was 83 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,119 Speaker 1: talking to her mom as she was getting the little 84 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: present for the boyfriend. This is, as I've always said, 85 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: a little girl scrubbed in sunshine, I mean precious good grades, 86 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: sweet sweet girl shopping at Target, and that feeling when 87 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: mom and dad keep calling, calling, calling, calling, and she's 88 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: not home. She's eight minutes away, for Pete's sake, the 89 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: grandparents driving around and they don't see her car at Target, 90 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: then find it at a mall, a mall near by. 91 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: But there was no reason for her to be at 92 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: the mall, right, Greg, not that we knew of the 93 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 1: only she was going to Target. She specifically had called 94 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: her mother while she was at the Target because the 95 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,679 Speaker 1: item that she was looking for. My wife knew exactly 96 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: where it was, and they were having that conversation on 97 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: the phone to where to go to pick up the 98 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: gift that she wanted to give for John, which she 99 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: did purchase. It was found in the car. Later, when 100 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: you heard your daughter's car was spotted at a nearby mall, 101 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 1: or she wasn't supposed to be and she's not in 102 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: the car and the Target purchase is in the car, 103 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: what went through your mind? Well, my first thought once 104 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: I got a phone call. The actual call I got 105 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: was from one of my daughters, Lindsey, who was out 106 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: with John. They were also driving around trying to find 107 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: Kelsey's car to see if they can figure out what 108 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: had happened, and then they ran into my parents, and 109 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: then Lindsey called me and said, hey, Dad, Mebi and Peppy. 110 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: My parents found the car and Kelsey's not here, and 111 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: John wants to open the doors and look around, and 112 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: I said, no, don't let him get anywhere near the car. 113 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: I'm on my way of called the police. Why did 114 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: you say that, Why did you say don't touch the car? Well, 115 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: I am law enforcement officer, and my first thought was 116 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: that something could be wrong, and I didn't want to. 117 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: I didn't want any chance of a crime scene that 118 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: might have trace evidence being disturbed. How did you know 119 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: that soon end this could be a crime. Gut feeling, 120 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: call it appearance instinct or a gut feeling. She never 121 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: ever ever was late. She was late one time in 122 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: her life and got grounded and then never did it again. 123 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: She would always text if she changed locations or call 124 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: and let us know, hey, I was at so and 125 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: so's house, now we're down here. And it was just 126 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: something that I required as a police officer. Of all 127 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: my kids. I have five, and they Hey, I don't 128 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: care where you're going, but I need to know where 129 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: you're at just in case something happens. And so you 130 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: Richard Trance far of our Fort lauderdelle Cot now private 131 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: investigator with Crispin Special Investigations, He's so right because how 132 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: much evidence can you lose or inadvertently destroy by touching 133 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: the car? Well, touching the car, you're going to touch 134 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: any DNA that's on the vehicle. You may mess with 135 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: a fingerprints there to be on there, you may remove hair, 136 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: any evidence that's in that car. Anybody touches that, you 137 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: have a very good chance that they're going to get 138 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: they're going to condamninate. So hold in that car was 139 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: one of the best things, you know, the father could 140 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: have ever done. And allowing law enforcement to go in 141 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: there and let a professional team actually process that vehicle 142 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: exactly exactly Crime stories with Nancy Grace, guys, we were 143 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: talking about information to arm you to protect yourself and 144 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 1: your family, and our new book Don't Be a Victim. 145 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: And with me who I consider not just a colleague 146 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: but a longtime friend, the dad of a beautiful young girl, Kelsey. 147 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: This is Greg Smith, Well with a law background. He 148 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: immediately knew what to do. Although how you stealed yourself 149 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: and told the boyfriend and the other daughter don't judge 150 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 1: the car at a time when you felt your daughter's 151 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: missing amazes me. Guys, take a listen to our friends 152 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: at Investigation Discovery. The surveillance video was very revealing. A 153 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: white male was following Kelsey around the store, up and 154 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: down several aisles, staying far enough back that she couldn't 155 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: quite see that he was following her. It was a 156 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: whole flight watching a lion circle a wild the beast. 157 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: I mean, this is something you see in the wild. 158 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: It was crazy. And then when she goes to the checkout, 159 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: that's when he leaves the store. We found out later 160 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: he had left the store before her so he could 161 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: go to his pickup truck and get his gun. This 162 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 1: is not something that happens every day anywhere, but especially 163 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: not no Flynn Park. To have somebody go missing from 164 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 1: a store like that, it's chilling. Anyone could have been 165 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: the target that day, it just happened to be her. 166 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: Back to Kelsey's dad joining us, Greg Smith, and he 167 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: is as one of the founders of the Kelsey Smith Foundation, 168 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: which you can find online. I encourage you to do that. Greg, 169 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: what did the video show there at Target? Well, the 170 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: internal video inside the store, you can see Kelsey going 171 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: to the various places that she needed to go to 172 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: complete her shopping tasks and her abductor eventually killer is 173 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: always present in the video somewhere. He's not right behind her. 174 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:37,199 Speaker 1: It's not very obvious. It's Bob Miller, who was one 175 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: of the lead detectives, described it like a some kind 176 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: of predator circling wildebeest, and that's exactly it. He was 177 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: not very overt about what he did, but it was 178 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: very obvious following his eyes. They were always following Kelsey 179 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: throughout the store and then of course when she left 180 00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 1: the store. The abduction was actually caught on tape. To 181 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: Jason Oceans, new York defense attorney joining us. Jason Oceans, 182 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: I have always said NASA could take some clues from Target. 183 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: How many times has Target video been used at trial 184 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: and in investigations. It's incredible. In Nancy, the advent of CCTV, 185 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: and you know certainly is aided law enforcement families relative 186 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: to help you solve a crime situation. Here thousands, thousands 187 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: of crimes. And so you know the thing about target 188 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: is and Greg Smith, you know this better than anybody is. 189 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: It's incredible surveillance video. So I always questioned why people say, oh, 190 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: my camera wasn't working. The surveillance wasn't working. We taped over. 191 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: Its too grainy, because if Target can do it, anybody 192 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: can do it right if they can pull it off 193 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: the way Target does. And when you look at that video, 194 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: Kelsey has no idea. This guy is in every picture. 195 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: As you said, say, she comes in, then she's at 196 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: the checkout, then she said this aisle, that aisle. He's 197 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 1: always in the picture. I heard you say that, Greg. Yeah, 198 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: it's very apparent when you watch the video, particularly with 199 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: you know, secondhand knowledge twenty twenty hindsight, that yeah, he 200 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: was in there, following her around the store and did 201 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 1: not have good intentions and she never noticed him, and 202 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,559 Speaker 1: why should she? When you go shopping, are you constantly 203 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: looking over your shoulder? Well, I can tell you this much. 204 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:51,359 Speaker 1: I have researched, investigated, prosecutor, and covered so many cases 205 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: that it really kicks in when you're going back to 206 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: your car, the likelihood that you're going to be attacked 207 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 1: in a department store. In a store is very low. 208 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: It's when you walk through those doors. Who is this guy? 209 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at Investigation Discovery releasing 210 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: that surveillance footage that really helped this case because thousands 211 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: of tips came pouring in. It led to the two 212 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: tips that brought police to Edwin Hall. Edwin Hall was 213 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: the suspect. He was twenty six years old. Edwin Hall 214 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: was sitting at work on a lunch break and then 215 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: the news comes on on the television and one of 216 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: his co workers says, isn't that your truck? Looks inside 217 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: the lunch room. His truck's literally parked just outside the window. 218 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: So his co workers looking at the video on the 219 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: camp the news looking outside and confirming with Edwin, is 220 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: that your truck? And at that point Edwin tells his boss, 221 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: I sick. I'm going home. Oddly enough, Edwin All had 222 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: a MySpace page that described his interests as eating small 223 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: children and harming animals. He did have a violent history. 224 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: He had a record. He had threatened his own sister 225 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: with a knife when he was just sixteen years old, 226 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: joining me as Kilsy's dad, Greg Smith, Police releasing that 227 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: surveillance video footage of the man following Kelsey inside a 228 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: target with plenty of people around, no one noticed a thing. 229 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: His name Edwin Hall. He's at work when a coworker 230 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: sees on the news that police are looking for his truck, 231 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: and he immediately says he feels bad and leaves. Greg Smith, 232 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: do you remember that being flashed all across the news 233 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: in the search for your daughter? Oh? Absolutely, it was. 234 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it was one of the good thousands and 235 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: thousands of tips that came in. Eventually, there were some 236 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: people that identified him from the video. Particularly there was 237 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: a still shot that the law enforcement put out of 238 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: him exiting the store that gave some detail, and there 239 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: were several people that said, hey, I know who that 240 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: guy is. As well as his truck was rather distinctive. 241 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: It was an older model truck, not that many of 242 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: them out on the road anymore, so it was clearly 243 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: easy to identify, but it wasn't clear that he was 244 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: the person that had done anything because the abduction video 245 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: was not clear enough to identify who the abductor was. 246 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: So it was he was always a person of interest 247 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: until finally some of that evidence that we talked about 248 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: at the very beginning that was found inside the car, 249 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: put him in the car. Let me ask you this 250 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: about that surveillance video and the parking lot. And I 251 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: devote literally pages and pay greg about safe in parking lots. 252 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: But how do you think he managed to get it 253 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,719 Speaker 1: over on Kelsey? She walked out the door, She had 254 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: a very short walk to her car. In your mind 255 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 1: in law enforcement, how did he do it? How did 256 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: he take her by surprise? He's done him before, that's 257 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: pretty obvious from watching the video. We got information after 258 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 1: the fact again that a lady had been attacked in 259 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: a shopping district just over the state line in Missouri. 260 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 1: We're only twelve miles from Missouri. Same type of thing 261 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 1: happened where someone tried to grab her as she was 262 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: getting in the car. Although this person that attacked her 263 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: didn't attack her while the door was opened. Her door 264 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: was still closed and she was able to get away 265 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: from him. And they didn't have any video there, And 266 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 1: she did report it to police at the time, but 267 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: there were no pictures of him or anything. But she 268 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: was my understanding as she actually called the police after 269 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: Kelsey's killer's picture showed up on television and said that's 270 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: the guy. That's the guy that did this to me. 271 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: It was very planned out. He parked a road behind her. 272 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: Video shows him following her into the parking lot. His 273 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: truck was behind her car. She pulls into a parking space. 274 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: His truck goes around behind the target building, makes a 275 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 1: complete circle, comes back, spots or car parks a road 276 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: behind Kelsey goes in. He goes in behind her, then 277 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: he comes back out. He goes out the indoor so 278 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: it's obvious where he was and to pick him up, 279 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: and he goes out into the end of the parking lot. 280 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: And then the abduction you actually see it's just a 281 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: blur at first coming across the screen from the left 282 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 1: hand side to the right hand side, which is the 283 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: actual abduction that took place. So it was very it 284 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: was very practiced. It was very quick, seventeen seconds from 285 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: the time he appears in the video until her car 286 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: backs out of the parking space, so he'd been there 287 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,360 Speaker 1: and done that before. This was not his first time 288 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about 289 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: information in a book that took two years to research 290 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 1: and put together for you. This is for you to 291 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: arm yourself and the ones you love with information. In 292 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 1: joining me as a longtime colleague and a man I 293 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: consider a friend. The father of Kelsey Smith, the founder 294 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: of the Kelsey Smith Foundation, Greg Smith, along with an 295 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: all star panel, Jason Ocean's doctor Debbie Joffe, Ellis, Richard 296 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: Truntz with Crispin's Special Investigations, doctor Tim Gallagher, Sierra Gillespie. Guys, 297 00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to our friends 298 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: that investig I should discovery. We do search Warren's house. 299 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: He had us shrine first Healtic religion in his basement. 300 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: There's talk that there was some kind of religious overtones 301 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: to its, satanic overtonlets to it. Because of the murdering background, 302 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: he wouldn't confirm it. But when we found Kelsey, the 303 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 1: stakes and branches that were over her body were in 304 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 1: a particular pattern that may have looked somewhat like a pentagram. 305 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 1: It gave the impression that it might have best sacrificed 306 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 1: for that religion. When police go to Edwin Hall's home 307 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: to question him, he's packing bags with his wife and child. 308 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: He says they're getting ready to go on vacation. They 309 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: bring him in for questioning, and his fingerprints are matched 310 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: for those on Kelsey Smith's car. Edwin R. Hall, twenty six, 311 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: of Alifa, has been arrested for aggravated kidnapping and murder 312 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:00,439 Speaker 1: in the first degree with me is Kelsey's dad. The 313 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: first to doctor Debbie Jaffe ellis joining us from Columbia. 314 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: Doctor Debbie, you hear that the rapist, the murderer has 315 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: a wife and child. I know it's hard for a 316 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: lot of people to understand. Why would someone that has 317 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: the opportunity for regular relations with a wife seek out 318 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: an innocent girl to rape. Well, even if he has 319 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: some regular relations, clearly his brain is not operating in 320 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: a healthy way. It's highly likely there's some neurological disorder, 321 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: certainly psychosis and need to control, dominate and act in 322 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: such obsessive and evil ways. And unfortunately, from the way 323 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: you describe Kelsey and Greg, my heart felt condolences to 324 00:21:53,680 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: you and your family, Kelsey sunny kind angelic. That kind 325 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 1: of disposition can give an impression of an easy victim. 326 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 1: And to go to one of the things you alluded 327 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 1: to about your book, Nancy, the importance of being mindful 328 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: to prevent such things that would include not sauntering walking 329 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: in a very bold, assertive, direct, purposeful way in a 330 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 1: place like a parking lot or open space, because someone 331 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: who looks like an easy catch for an evil minded person, 332 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 1: if they walk in a more assertive way, may just 333 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: may thinking for an area catch. You know. I'm also 334 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: curious Greg Smith because when you speak of Kelsey, when 335 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 1: you describe the investigation, the disappearance, the discovery of Kelsey's body, 336 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: you sound white law enforcement. How do you even at 337 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 1: the time when you go, don't touch the car? How 338 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 1: do you steal yourself and speak so clearly about what happened. Well, 339 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: it's it's training, Nancy. I mean, I've been in law 340 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: enforcement now for twenty three years. Um. And I mean 341 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 1: not to say that this hasn't had a huge emotional 342 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: impact on me. It has, um And you know, I 343 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: had I had my round with PTSD because of this 344 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: and some other things that happened in law enforcement. And 345 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,679 Speaker 1: it was interesting in conversations that I had with my 346 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,360 Speaker 1: doctor that he would often tell me when we were 347 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: discussing Kelsey, stop telling me this, like you're a cop. 348 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: I want to hear what her dad has to say. Um, 349 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: it's a it's a coping mechanism. M I talked about 350 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 1: it a lot while she was missing. Um. I could 351 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: analyze the case as a cop and I could keep 352 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 1: it together. UM. But when I switched over to Dad, 353 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:07,679 Speaker 1: it was a lot harder. So it was it was 354 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 1: it was a way for me to function and think 355 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: that I was doing something and feel that I was 356 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: doing something to help find Kelsey. If I could stay 357 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: in that, in that law enforcement mode and stay in 358 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 1: that mindset, you know, Greg, Even now, all these years later, 359 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: when especially when I'm surprised by the question and people 360 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: ask me about the murder of my fiancee, I still 361 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: feel sick. I feel I don't like talking about it, 362 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: you know, As I mentioned, I have the twins now, 363 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: and if you start talking about it, you take that 364 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: little chip then it opens up the whole thing. And 365 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: in the past, that could throw me into a depression 366 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: that could last days, two weeks, two months, I mean dark, 367 00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 1: dark depression. And I don't want that for the children. 368 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: I don't want them to be around that. So I 369 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: hear what you're saying. It's easier to just kind of 370 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: cut that off and deal with it. I guess professionally, 371 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: is the only way I can say it. But when 372 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: you say you had PTSD, how did Kelsey's murder end 373 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: up effecting you and your family? Well, that was another 374 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: conscious decision that we made. I mean shortly after her 375 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 1: body was recovered and we were starting the process of 376 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: all the court hearings and everything that is entailed in 377 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: a capital in order case. We sat down as a family, 378 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 1: my wife, Missy, and I with our kids, and we said, okay, 379 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: he gets no more. And just to be clear, he 380 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: is Kelsey's killer. And also to be clear, I never 381 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: mentioned his name. My goal has always been that to 382 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 1: make sure that Kelsey's story is promoted and not his. 383 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: So I don't ever mention his name. That's just just 384 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: something that I do. But he gets no more. He's 385 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: taken Kelsey from us. He's not going to take our 386 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: family's club for each other. He's not going to take 387 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: our lives away. He's not going to take away the 388 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,360 Speaker 1: joy of later on we now have seven with an 389 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: eighth grandchild on the way from my other children. Those 390 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 1: types of things, those are ours, and he doesn't get that. 391 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 1: He gets no more. And so that was a conscious 392 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: decision that the family name and that we actually sat 393 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 1: down as a family and discussed it. The second conscious 394 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: decision we made was that this is about Kelsey and 395 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: that this should be Kelsey's story and not his story, 396 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: and so we always go out with that in mind. 397 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: And Kelsey Smith Foundation, that's one of the reasons that's 398 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: out there is is to commemorate Kelsey's life and talk 399 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: about the type of person she was. But then we 400 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: also of our safety component. I speak all over the 401 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: United States on safety techniques and safety awareness, being aware 402 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: of your environment, those types of things, as well as 403 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: I also go over the United States and brief law enforcement. 404 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: I do an actual case study on Kelsey's case, and 405 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: we work. We work with states that have not yet 406 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: passed the Kelsey Smith back which is legislation that helps 407 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: law enforcement find missing people through cell phones and talk 408 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: to each each organization that I can in those states, 409 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: and now twenty seven states out of fifty have a 410 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: Kelsey Smith ran to Dodger Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner 411 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 1: for the state of Florida at pathcaremd dot com. Dodger Gallagher, 412 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: can you, for instance, in Kelsey's case, determine how long 413 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,400 Speaker 1: she's been dead? And that's a good question. Nancy actually, 414 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: there are excellent studies at some studies done by the 415 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: University of Florida on the post mortem interval. One especially 416 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: that comes to mind was done by doctor Leras Sutton. 417 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 1: She came up with a formula that if you plug 418 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: in temperature and a body temperature, ambient temperature, etc. You 419 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 1: can come up with a very accurate post mortem interval. 420 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: You know that's incredible to me, Doctor Gallagher, and I 421 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,679 Speaker 1: know you look at it as a forensic pathologist, as 422 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: a medical examiner, but I'm looking at it from a 423 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: crime point of view, and to you Richard Trump's PI 424 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: with Crispin Special Investigations dot Com. It's amazing to me. 425 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: It scary to me that all of this happened and 426 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: such a short period of time. Kelsey was taken from 427 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: the target shopping, she came out with the bag on 428 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: the way to a car. Car was not that far 429 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: from the door, and within a couple of hours it 430 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: was all over and this young girl had been attacked 431 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: and murdered, just like that. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, 432 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: we're talking about the disappearance of Kelsey Smith and the 433 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: death of Kelsey Smith, a gorgeous young girl. Her father 434 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: joining us to you, Richard Trunce, Statistically, isn't that typical 435 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: that the kidnapping and the murder occur much more quickly 436 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: that people realize? I think it is. It does occur 437 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: very quickly most cases. You know, they tell you if 438 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: it's not solving forty eight hours, then you know, try 439 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: and get these cases solved. Time progressive comes a little 440 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: bit harder, but a lot of these cases do happen 441 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: very quickly, and you know, thankfully there are good law 442 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: enforcement officers out there that I mean, let me just 443 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,479 Speaker 1: cut the chase. What I'm saying is that minutes count. 444 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: When you're starting to get to thirty six forty eight, 445 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: seventy two hours, the likelihood that the victim is dead 446 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: just rises, you know, exponentially. So when you're getting on 447 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: to twelve twenty four hours, the likelihood the victim is 448 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: a lie is very low. Yes, that's true. You know, 449 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: having the law enforcement officers get to the person that 450 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: got the phone call, getting the law enforcement out there 451 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: to start doing starting to talk to people, starting to 452 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: find out what's going on lateness, You know that that's 453 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: extremely important because they're more fantasting. The officers are talking 454 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: to other people, and in this incident, you have video 455 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: for them all. So right away you have officers going 456 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: over trying to secure video detector sciensper video of at 457 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: them all in the parking lot. So that's something happens 458 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: really quick. But you know you have to get out. 459 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: You got to talk and trogate the parents where the 460 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: call originated from, trying to find out what happened right 461 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: away and as quickly as possible. Guys, take a list 462 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: of our friends and investigation discovery. They had a pretty 463 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: solid case. They had him on the surveillance cameras, they 464 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 1: had his fingerprints. I think the community was very ecstatic 465 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: that they could wrap this up quickly. Part of his 466 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: a plea agreement to avoid the death penalty was to 467 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: give a full confession. Edwin told me that Kelsey was 468 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: just a crime of opportunity. He had been trolling Oak 469 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: Park ball all day, was approaching ladies, asking him odd questions. 470 00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: He was looking for a particular behaviors and that's how 471 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: he found her. Kelsey, unfortunately, was totally oblivious to what 472 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: was going on around her, focused on shopping, talking to 473 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: her mom, her She just wasn't paying attention to what 474 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: was going on around her. Kelsey was just his opportunity. 475 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: She was at the target. He thought she had nice 476 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: legs and told Detective Miller that he thought she was 477 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: twelve and that the evil just overtook him. Greg Smith, 478 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: you're Kelsey's dad. He thought she was twelve. Ay, that's 479 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: a lie because he'd been following her driving around and 480 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: b is that supposed to make it better than he 481 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: thought she was twelve. That would be a child attack 482 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,719 Speaker 1: and murder. Do you believe anything he said in his confession? Now? 483 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: It is rather incredulous that he would think that she 484 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: was twelve years old when he followed her car into 485 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: the parking lot. And we often talk about that and 486 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: how how strange that is that that description that you're 487 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: that was actually my wife, Missy, talking about that. But 488 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 1: you know what, You're right, Greg, Let's don't talk about him. 489 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: To hell with him. Let's just get rid of him 490 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: right now. Let's talk about Kelsey and what, if anything, 491 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: we can do to help other people. That's what this book. 492 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: Don't be a victim fighting back against America's crime wave. 493 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: It's all about my proceeds going to National Center for 494 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: Missing and Exploited Children. I start this chapter off with 495 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: describing scenarios, real scenarios that I investigated, prosecuted, or covered, 496 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: and in them is a story of Kelsey. I follow 497 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: it up with pages and pages of tips for you 498 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: to stay protected. For instance, mega parking lots and garages 499 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: are a predator's playground. Pick a central spot well let 500 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: because somehow you'll lose track of time inside and it 501 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: gets the same goes for when you park on the street. 502 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: Park where there are passer buys or hopefully even an attendant. 503 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: Always note where you park. I now take a picture 504 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 1: of it, especially in an airport or a big parking deck. 505 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 1: Look at it before you leave the store, so you 506 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: don't get out and parking deck number three or the 507 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: green level and find out your car is not there 508 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,720 Speaker 1: at all. Isn't it true Greg that now so many 509 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: cars have a fob with an emergency sound or a 510 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,840 Speaker 1: car horn on it. If you can't find it, tap it. 511 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 1: Your car should make a sound to help you find 512 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: it more quickly. Have your keys ready once you're in 513 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: the car, shut the door, lock it immediately, and don't 514 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 1: be fumbling with your bags or your cell phone as 515 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:56,399 Speaker 1: you walk. There are pages and pages of tips. Look 516 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,399 Speaker 1: in the backseat just before you get in the car, 517 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 1: because once you get in, if there's somebody back there. 518 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: And I've worked with a lady that this happened to 519 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: her and her children. As somebody's in the back seat 520 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: and you're in the driver's seat, it's too late, it's over. 521 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: Don't linger to look in as you open the door 522 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 1: and get in, then look in. But I've got the 523 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 1: consummate professional with me who has devoted his life to 524 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:26,280 Speaker 1: helping other people after what happened to his daughter, Kelsey. 525 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: I've got pages and pages and pages of tips, Greg Smith, 526 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 1: but I want to hear your tips. It sounds like 527 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,839 Speaker 1: you've been attending some of our training, Nancy. From your book, 528 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:45,800 Speaker 1: all of that is fantastic. I would say two big 529 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: takeaways that people should have for personal safety. Is one, 530 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 1: it's just being aware of their environment, what's going on 531 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: around them. We get so caught up in what's going 532 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,239 Speaker 1: on on Facebook or Twitter. As you're walking out in 533 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: the parking lot. You've got your head buried in that 534 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: cell phone. You've got no idea what's going on around you. 535 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 1: So that would be my first one. The second one 536 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: is always let somebody know where you're going. And I mean, 537 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: if you know, if you're running to the store. You know, 538 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,320 Speaker 1: if I'm going to the store, I let Missy know. 539 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,319 Speaker 1: I say, hey, I'm running too, you know, the price 540 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,760 Speaker 1: chopper or whatever. If I stopped somewhere else, I'll text 541 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,439 Speaker 1: her and let her know that that or vice versa. 542 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 1: She does that for me. If at the very least, 543 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: as in Kelsey's case, that's a starting point for an investigation. 544 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 1: If somebody all of a sudden was missing and and 545 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 1: you know, make no mistake about it. With Kelsey's case, 546 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,320 Speaker 1: that's what it was. She just didn't come home on time. 547 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,760 Speaker 1: There wasn't video immediately available to figure out what happened, 548 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 1: and even after the video was obtained, it wasn't obvious 549 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 1: what had happened. There had to be some work done 550 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: on the video to figure it out. And so, I mean, 551 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, she just didn't come home, didn't 552 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,400 Speaker 1: There wasn't in the indication necessarily their crime had been committed. 553 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: So it was the fact that we knew where she was, 554 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: the fact that she had these habits of letting us 555 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 1: know when she changed location, and the fact that it 556 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:22,840 Speaker 1: allowed us in a very short amount of time to 557 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: say something's wrong, something has happened, this is not normal. 558 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 1: Beg let me tell you a couple of more of 559 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 1: my tips. Obviously, look at the back seat before you 560 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: get in, but always position your body to use your 561 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: shopping cart as a shield or even a weapon. Laugh now, 562 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 1: but thank me later. Use everything at your disposal, your pocketbook, 563 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: your cell phone, the parking, this shopping cart. Keep it 564 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: between you and everybody else. I know it sounds crazy, 565 00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: but it could save your life. By a at a 566 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:05,279 Speaker 1: car wash or an AutoZone type store so that you 567 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: can see all the way behind you, even if you 568 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,720 Speaker 1: have a minivan, that you can see what's happening around 569 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: your car. These are simple tips that anybody can follow. 570 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: There are pages and pages of them in the new book, 571 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: Don't Be a Victim. And before I sign off to 572 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: Greg Smith, Kelsey's dad, tell us about your foundation, Greg Well. 573 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: The Kelsey Smith Foundation was founded exactly one month of 574 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: the day after Kelsey's death, and the purpose is to 575 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 1: provide resources and education to public organizations, schools, lawmakers, whoever 576 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: about personal safety. And we have several different seminars that 577 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 1: we offer at the foundation for that, and we also 578 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: provide information about the Kelsey Smith Act, which was a 579 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,839 Speaker 1: law that was inspired by Kelsey started in Kansas, which 580 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: allows law enforcement to gain quick access to location information 581 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,920 Speaker 1: only of a cell phone if the person has been 582 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,879 Speaker 1: determined to be missing or in danger at physical harm 583 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 1: of death by law enforcement. The key to that is 584 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,719 Speaker 1: that the night that Kelsey went missing, we were on 585 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,719 Speaker 1: the phone constantly with her cell phone provider trying to 586 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 1: find out if they could tell us where her phone 587 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 1: was at, and they kept saying that they could not 588 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 1: let us know because she was eighteen years old. Despite 589 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:34,799 Speaker 1: the fact that the phone was actually in Missy's name, 590 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,799 Speaker 1: my wife's name, they still would not give us that information. 591 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 1: That legal procedures were initiated to get that information, but 592 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,400 Speaker 1: it took three days to get it in it and 593 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: by the time by the time law enforcement got that information, 594 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: it was late at night. They couldn't go out to 595 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:49,920 Speaker 1: the area and so they had to wait till the 596 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,880 Speaker 1: next morning. They went out to the tower that last 597 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 1: made contact with Kelsey's phone and found her body within 598 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 1: forty five minutes. So, now, Greg, and that is why 599 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: you've got to have I find my iPhone activated, your 600 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,799 Speaker 1: tracking device on your phone activated. We have life three 601 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:11,240 Speaker 1: sixty and when my children just went down to seeing 602 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,319 Speaker 1: with their school at Disney, we followed the bus at 603 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 1: a discreet distance, and we knew where they were. Within Disney. 604 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,000 Speaker 1: We could see them walking around because they had their 605 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 1: cell phones. There's a million ways to stay safe. And 606 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 1: before I sign off, mister Smith, I just want to 607 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:36,759 Speaker 1: tell you something. You changed my life. You really did. 608 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 1: Guys Kelsey's story and many of the tips that Greg 609 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,720 Speaker 1: Smith is telling you today is in our newpook. Please 610 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:55,400 Speaker 1: act on them. Nancy Gray's crime Story. Signing off, Goodye,