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Speaker 1: Welcome to Hoops Tonight, presented by fan Duel here at
Speaker 1: the volume. Happy Monday, everybody. I hope all of you
Speaker 1: guys had a great weekend. We have a packed show
Speaker 1: for you today and it packed week overall. We have
Speaker 1: a fresh report from Shams Sharania talking about a potential
Speaker 1: new suitor for Kevin Durant coming out of the Western Conference.
Speaker 1: We're gonna dive into that a little bit. There was
Speaker 1: also a little nugget in that report having to do
Speaker 1: with Kyrie Irving that directly affects the Los Angeles Lakers,
Speaker 1: So we're gonna spend some time on that as well.
Speaker 1: After that, we're gonna be going into a bunch of
Speaker 1: follow up stuff on my top list that we did
Speaker 1: over the course of the last month. The second half
Speaker 1: of today's show, I'm gonna be going over the five
Speaker 1: archetypes of NBA Superstars. Why because the biggest thing that
Speaker 1: you guys seem to disagree with from my list was
Speaker 1: having Yokich the back to back m v P down
Speaker 1: at number seven. Now, to be clear, I don't dislike Yokich.
Speaker 1: There are players in the league that I dislike. Yokich
Speaker 1: isn't one of them. This is strictly a basketball philosophy
Speaker 1: thing with the way that I see the game. So
Speaker 1: I wanted to spend some time diving into the archetypes
Speaker 1: of stars, what sets, what the advantages that big men produce,
Speaker 1: the disadvantages that big men produce, and why I'm lower
Speaker 1: on them compared to the other types of stars in
Speaker 1: the league. Then on Wednesday, we're gonna be doing a
Speaker 1: mail back episode, So you're gonna want to go to
Speaker 1: my twitter feed. I will tweet out later today a
Speaker 1: question asking four mail back questions. I want you guys
Speaker 1: to drop underneath that tweet any questions or comments you
Speaker 1: guys have about my top list also for Wednesday. One
Speaker 1: of my biggest pet peeves about lists in general is
Speaker 1: people typically just yell and scream and patrols yell at
Speaker 1: the uh you know, right in the mentions like this
Speaker 1: is b s or this is stupid? Why is this
Speaker 1: guy there? And they never actually just tell you why
Speaker 1: they disagree and actually make a case for why somebody
Speaker 1: else should be in that spot. So what I'd like
Speaker 1: to do is give you guys an opportunity to do
Speaker 1: that and get shouted out on Wednesday's show. So I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be taking two or three of you guys who
Speaker 1: go under that mailbag tweet and break down why you
Speaker 1: think I was wrong about something. Do it quickly, needs
Speaker 1: to be in the one or two tweets, but explain
Speaker 1: why you disagree with one of the decisions I made
Speaker 1: on my list, and the two or three of you
Speaker 1: guys that make the most sense, that are most reasonable.
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm i am not unreasonable. I love to
Speaker 1: hear from other smart basketball minds and to try to
Speaker 1: add to my knowledge of the game. I want to
Speaker 1: give you guys a chance to see what you can
Speaker 1: offer there. So for Wednesday again, mail bag questions and
Speaker 1: any disagreements you have with the list, drop them on
Speaker 1: my Twitter feed under the mail back tweet that we
Speaker 1: send out later today. All right, before we get started,
Speaker 1: you guys know the drill. Follow me on Twitter at
Speaker 1: Understore Underscore Jason lt so you can see show announcements
Speaker 1: and that mail back tweet that I just talked about.
Speaker 1: Remember to subscribe to the volume's YouTube channels, you guys,
Speaker 1: don't miss any more of our videos. And then, last,
Speaker 1: but not least, if you miss one of these shows
Speaker 1: and you can't get back to YouTube to finish it,
Speaker 1: just go wherever you find your podcasts under Hoops tonight
Speaker 1: and you will find the audio form typically a few
Speaker 1: hours after these shows go on YouTube. All right, so
Speaker 1: we have a report from Shams and and it's a
Speaker 1: lot of recycled info right like Boston still in first place,
Speaker 1: Toronto and Miami or the other two primary teams considered
Speaker 1: a threat. I have no idea why Miami keeps getting
Speaker 1: mentioned in that list. I don't see how they're they're
Speaker 1: peaking Brooklyn's interest, but clearly they are so pat Riley
Speaker 1: must have something up his sleeve there that is interesting
Speaker 1: to Brooklyn. But it's a lot of recycled info and
Speaker 1: a whole lot of no trades happening, right But there
Speaker 1: were two pieces of information in that article that we're
Speaker 1: very interesting that I wanted to touch on today. First
Speaker 1: of all, is the fact that the Memphis Grizzlies have
Speaker 1: entered the chat, so to speak, and are making an
Speaker 1: offer for Kevin Durant. Now, I don't think it's a
Speaker 1: very serious offer because they're not even including Desmond Bain
Speaker 1: and I like Desmond Baine. Desmond Baine is a damn
Speaker 1: good basketball player, one of the best shooters that we
Speaker 1: have in the league right now. An excellent slasher because
Speaker 1: of how big and strong he is that when he
Speaker 1: gets a head of steam going down the lane, it's
Speaker 1: really tough for people to get in front. Also, his
Speaker 1: shooting threat makes people chase him off the line. Desmond
Speaker 1: Bayine is a damn good basketball player, But I don't
Speaker 1: think he's a star. I think he's a lesser version
Speaker 1: of Clay Thompson on the high end of his potential.
Speaker 1: So I don't think Memphis is all that serious if
Speaker 1: they're not willing to include Desmond Bain in these types
Speaker 1: of discussions for a player the caliber of Kevin Durant.
Speaker 1: My guess is is that they're just kind of feeling
Speaker 1: things out there, just like any other team is around
Speaker 1: the league. I think Memphis fits an archetype, pretty an archetype,
Speaker 1: pretty simpler, similar to Golden State in the sense that,
Speaker 1: like I talked to you guys about, there's kind of
Speaker 1: two strategies. The organic build route, right, that's the Golden
Speaker 1: State route. You grow things in house through competence. You
Speaker 1: stay fresh each year by adding talent. Your players stick
Speaker 1: around for a really long time, so there's great continuity.
Speaker 1: You have a continuity advantage over everybody else in the league.
Speaker 1: You build a really strong local fan base, you start
Speaker 1: to generate a bunch of revenue from that. That gives
Speaker 1: you the flexibility to potentially go over the cap to
Speaker 1: resign players. That's that proven method, right, But then there's
Speaker 1: the push your chips in the middle method right, and
Speaker 1: Memphis kind of fits that mold too technically right, there
Speaker 1: are a very good team that has assets that's not
Speaker 1: quite good enough to win an NBA championship. There is
Speaker 1: a pathway that has been laid out by Massi Usury
Speaker 1: in the Toronto Raptors in two thousand nineteen. You're gonna
Speaker 1: have a fifty nine win team with a damn good
Speaker 1: player that's leading and push chip in the middle, potentially
Speaker 1: risking uh blowback from your fan base, and you can
Speaker 1: put together a team that has enough talent to win
Speaker 1: a championship. There's risk player could leave after you trade
Speaker 1: for him. The player could be a malcontent, but it
Speaker 1: could also work out and you could have the trophy,
Speaker 1: just like Kawhi Leonard and the two thousand nineteen Toronto
Speaker 1: Raptors did. Now, typically that's my favorite strategy. Like I
Speaker 1: told you guys, because of the current situation and dynamic
Speaker 1: between players and owners. I think players are fickle. They
Speaker 1: changed their mind every couple of years, So banking on
Speaker 1: loyalty I think is a mistake under most circumstances. However,
Speaker 1: this Memphis team seems to have some of those ingredients
Speaker 1: like Golden State does, and they have an opportunity potentially
Speaker 1: to recapture that. So this is a rare example of
Speaker 1: a team for me that's in that zone to potentially
Speaker 1: make an all in trade where I would not make
Speaker 1: the all in trade. I think Jaren Jackson Jr. Is
Speaker 1: one of the most exciting defensive players in the league
Speaker 1: right now, and honestly flashed quite a bit of offensive
Speaker 1: potential again in this postseason run, knocking down threes and
Speaker 1: attacking closeouts because he's so damn big and strong going
Speaker 1: to the basket. I think John Morant is going to
Speaker 1: be the best hyper athletic guard star archetype that we've
Speaker 1: seen in the league. I think he's got potential to
Speaker 1: be better than any of the guys who came before him.
Speaker 1: I'm very, very excited about Memphis. I just don't think
Speaker 1: putting Kevin Durant in that mix is for the best,
Speaker 1: especially when you factor in the specific scenario that caused
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant to want to leave Golden State. If you remember,
Speaker 1: it was about the attention that Steph was getting, the
Speaker 1: way that the fan base treated him. The fan base
Speaker 1: is gonna be behind John Morant in Memphis, not Kevin Durant,
Speaker 1: not that they won't support him. I believe he'd be
Speaker 1: welcomed in. Everything would be fine. I just don't necessarily
Speaker 1: think Kevin Durant would be super happy in that situation.
Speaker 1: I think he wants to go somewhere where he has
Speaker 1: a clear cut I'm the guy type of advantage. I
Speaker 1: think that's just the point he's at in his career.
Speaker 1: So it was interesting to see Memphis there. I think
Speaker 1: Memphis is an interesting potential for Katie trade, but I
Speaker 1: think it makes more sense for them to go the
Speaker 1: homegrown Golden State Warriors route. They've already made it a
Speaker 1: significant amount of distance down that path. They should stay
Speaker 1: on target there. Plus, I don't think they're all that
Speaker 1: serious if they're not including a guy like Desmond Baine.
Speaker 1: So the interesting thing here is why hasn't Katie been
Speaker 1: traded yet? And there's really two possibilities. Either Brooklyn is
Speaker 1: dragging things out, just like they did with James Harden
Speaker 1: in hopes of getting a better offer like the Ben
Speaker 1: Simmons one that ended up coming from Philly. I don't
Speaker 1: really see that comparison there, because for starters, James Harden
Speaker 1: is not even in the same stratospheres of Kevin Durant
Speaker 1: as a player right and then also during the hardened
Speaker 1: sweepstakes early on, there weren't any good offers. There are
Speaker 1: damn good offers on the table for Kevin Durant right now.
Speaker 1: I think I had Jalen Brown sixteen on my list.
Speaker 1: I think he's easily a top twenty player in the NBA,
Speaker 1: who's ascending, who was arguably the best player Boston had
Speaker 1: in the NBA Finals and and had a lot of
Speaker 1: really good games in this NBA Playoffs. He was the
Speaker 1: best clutch player in this NBA playoffs. Jalen Brown, He's
Speaker 1: the best fourth quarter player. I should say so, Jalen Brown, Like,
Speaker 1: there's a good offer on the table for Brooklyn right
Speaker 1: now that they're passing on it. This isn't like when
Speaker 1: they when when they finally got James Harden to fetch
Speaker 1: someone the likes of Ben Simmons. That was Ben Simmons
Speaker 1: was the best player that was mentioned in any conversations
Speaker 1: of trade surrounding James Harden. So I don't really see
Speaker 1: the parallel there. And then there's so much potential negative
Speaker 1: that comes with it. We've talked at LA about the
Speaker 1: toxicity at training camp. If you drag this out in
Speaker 1: hopes of getting a better player, you will ruin a
Speaker 1: significant chunk of this season. You're gonna have young players
Speaker 1: and other role players sitting in the film room with
Speaker 1: Steve Kerr at the front and Sean Mark standing on
Speaker 1: the side, and Kevin Durant sitting behind you, the guy
Speaker 1: who has openly said basically and and and basically stamped
Speaker 1: by the owner that this is a real thing. That
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant said that he doesn't like those two guys.
Speaker 1: He doesn't like Sean Marks, he doesn't like Steve Nash.
Speaker 1: That's toxicity. There isn't after here for Brooklyn. There is
Speaker 1: a phase of this process where you're detached from Katie
Speaker 1: and Kyrie and you can build the basketball culture that
Speaker 1: you dream of building. Any time you wait, you're just
Speaker 1: delaying the after. You're delaying how long it's gonna take
Speaker 1: for you to get to that period. Now again, if
Speaker 1: the offers were absolute garbage and there's nothing you could
Speaker 1: get by all means, hold out, see if you can
Speaker 1: get something decent. There are good offers on the table
Speaker 1: for Kevin Durant right now. And they are passing on them.
Speaker 1: So this to me feels like cutting off your nose
Speaker 1: despite your face. It feels like you're not happy about
Speaker 1: the dynamic of the situation. It feels like you're not
Speaker 1: happy about the power and leverage that Kevin Durant having
Speaker 1: this situation, and it feels like you're dragging it out
Speaker 1: just for the sake of dragging it out. I don't
Speaker 1: really understand the second possibility here, and the one that
Speaker 1: I think is more likely is that the Boston offers
Speaker 1: in first place and they're simply waiting until a predecided
Speaker 1: deadline like there, let's call it septemb They might be
Speaker 1: sitting there going, okay, September fIF if we don't have
Speaker 1: anything better, we're taking our best offer, which is Boston.
Speaker 1: That's confidential information, probably for for negotiation purposes, and they
Speaker 1: hope they can pull something more out of one of
Speaker 1: these teams before then. But if nothing happens, they pulled
Speaker 1: it trigger in September, there's literally no point in rushing.
Speaker 1: The only guy that really affects is Kevin Durant, and
Speaker 1: how late he has to move into the summer, right,
Speaker 1: But I think that's the more likely scenario. This whole
Speaker 1: idea that they would actively sabotage their own rebuild or
Speaker 1: bring Kevin Durant and Kyrie into a toxic training camp.
Speaker 1: That to me seems way less likely than we're just
Speaker 1: waiting a little bit longer to see if we can
Speaker 1: get something a little bit better. So my guess is
Speaker 1: that sometime in mid September this trade ends up going down,
Speaker 1: and my guesses it ends up being Boston, because I
Speaker 1: don't think Toronto is gonna throw in Scottie Barnes. I
Speaker 1: don't think New Orleans is going to be able to
Speaker 1: throw in Brandon Ingram or Zion Williamson, So that means
Speaker 1: Boston is the natural fit. Um. So there was a
Speaker 1: bit in there from from Shames about Kyrie, saying that
Speaker 1: Brooklyn has made it clear to rival executives that they
Speaker 1: intend to keep Kyrie. So the question is are they
Speaker 1: telling the truth or are they bluffing. I once again
Speaker 1: believe they're bluffing because of simple logic. If they are
Speaker 1: keeping Kadie long term, then yeah, it makes sense to
Speaker 1: keep Kyrie because then you can probably sign him to
Speaker 1: a deal next summer that's on better terms, because maybe
Speaker 1: he was more available this year or whatever, but they're
Speaker 1: not keeping Katie. Katie wants to be traded, and I
Speaker 1: find it highly unlikely that they get full buy in
Speaker 1: from k D to not just come to camp, but
Speaker 1: to recommit to the Nets long term. That doesn't seem likely.
Speaker 1: So that means they're eventually going to trade k D.
Speaker 1: If you are eventually going to trade k D and
Speaker 1: you're letting Kyrie finish his contract here, that's bad asset management.
Speaker 1: Because Kyrie probably feels insulted that you didn't give him
Speaker 1: a deal last summer. He's gonna want a long term
Speaker 1: deal next summer. You're probably not gonna give it to
Speaker 1: him because you just didn't give it to him. So
Speaker 1: he's probably gonna go somewhere else looking for that big deal,
Speaker 1: and the Lakers are gonna probably do what they can
Speaker 1: to try to offer it. So the reality is is
Speaker 1: Kyrie is an asset that you are losing after this
Speaker 1: season no matter what, and the Lakers reportedly are willing
Speaker 1: to give you two first round draft picks for it.
Speaker 1: So do you really think that the Nets thing they
Speaker 1: can get Katie to recommit long term? No, do you
Speaker 1: really think that they plan on burning an asset? Worth
Speaker 1: two first round picks to lose him for nothing next summer.
Speaker 1: I don't think so. So the reality is is this
Speaker 1: is just another attempt to re established negotiating leverage over
Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Lakers. I suppose. I don't don't really
Speaker 1: see the point. Why in the world would they bring
Speaker 1: Kyrie Irring back on an expiring deal when he's gonna
Speaker 1: want the same damn deal you just didn't give to him.
Speaker 1: It just it just doesn't make any sense that the
Speaker 1: Brooklyn Kyrie dynamic has been the most like it's been
Speaker 1: the NBA, just like truly thinking that their fans are
Speaker 1: stupid because the things that they've tried to put off
Speaker 1: on us in these reports breakdown under the simplest bit
Speaker 1: of logic. I've always found it hilarious. So for the Lakers,
Speaker 1: let's say, let's say, for the sake of argument, that
Speaker 1: they are going to keep Kyrie, let him finish the season,
Speaker 1: and then go sign somewhere else next year and lose
Speaker 1: him for nothing. It does not appear that Buddy Yield
Speaker 1: and Miles Turner from the Pacers are being actively pursued,
Speaker 1: so that trade is still on the table for the Lakers.
Speaker 1: The Jazz are actively trying to trade Donovan Mitchell. I
Speaker 1: think he's gonna end up in New York sooner than later.
Speaker 1: There's potential there that a three team deal takes shape.
Speaker 1: And when that three team deal takes shape, you might
Speaker 1: see those Jazz role players that the Lakers were targeting
Speaker 1: sent elsewhere. But that doesn't really matter that much because
Speaker 1: I think the Lakers prefer the the Indiana Pacers deal.
Speaker 1: So I don't think you need to rush to the
Speaker 1: Indiana Pacers deal because no one else is actively shopping
Speaker 1: for Miles Turner and Buddy Yield, so they can continue
Speaker 1: to wait and see what happens with this Brooklyn thing.
Speaker 1: And if it gets precariously close to camp and they
Speaker 1: still haven't traded Kyrie and they still haven't traded k
Speaker 1: D and they're gonna foolishly embark on this season with
Speaker 1: those two guys under control, then you can default to
Speaker 1: this Indiana Pacers deal. Obviously, if you had risk of
Speaker 1: losing both, then it changes that dynamic. But I haven't
Speaker 1: seen any reporting or any indication that teams are fighting
Speaker 1: to try to get Buddy Yield and Miles Turners. So
Speaker 1: if the Nets end up sitting on Kyrie. The Lakers
Speaker 1: will have a backup plan there. It is still in
Speaker 1: their best interest to eight on that situation and see
Speaker 1: if Kyrie becomes available, because once again, like we talked about,
Speaker 1: it's simple logic. Why in the world with the Nets
Speaker 1: keep Kyrie irving if they knew they were gonna lose
Speaker 1: him next summer and he's worth two first round draft
Speaker 1: picks right now, it's simple logic. They're gonna trade him
Speaker 1: as soon as the Katie trade goes through the Lakers
Speaker 1: of the logical fit you hold out there. If it
Speaker 1: gets to mid September and nothing's happened, then you call
Speaker 1: up the Pacers and you see if you can make
Speaker 1: a deal for Miles Turner, Buddy held. The bottom line
Speaker 1: is is like I was watching another UH clip from
Speaker 1: that Seattle pro am the other day and obviously got
Speaker 1: shut down early because it's some wet floor. We've had
Speaker 1: a ton of humidity here in Tucson two because of
Speaker 1: the monsoon's It's crazy. You get basketball players playing in humidity,
Speaker 1: they just start to sweat more and it just gets
Speaker 1: all over the floor and then people are slipping all over.
Speaker 1: The plays I played in the game yesterday we spent
Speaker 1: half the day wiping it down the damn floor. But
Speaker 1: in that game, Lebron had a nasty left handed alley
Speaker 1: oop dunk and I watching that and I'm sitting there
Speaker 1: thinking like, this is insane. How good this guy still is?
Speaker 1: And last year there were three players in the entire
Speaker 1: NBA that averaged at least twenty five points, five rebounds
Speaker 1: and five assists on at least from the field and
Speaker 1: from three, which is low markers. By the way, points
Speaker 1: per game is not that crazy in the scoring world.
Speaker 1: Five rebounds and five assists, those are pretty achievable markers.
Speaker 1: From the field and from three, those are pretty achievable markers.
Speaker 1: It's Katie, Luca, and Lebron. Those are the only three
Speaker 1: guys who did that last year. That's how good Lebron
Speaker 1: still is. And so the reality of this situation here
Speaker 1: is they the Lakers have to feel some urgency to
Speaker 1: take advantage of that level of player being under their control.
Speaker 1: Even Anthony Davis, after taking two months off, was guilt
Speaker 1: tripped by Twitter and definally getting into the gym, and
Speaker 1: he appears to be having his most active offseason since
Speaker 1: he came to l A. So you've got potentially Anthony
Speaker 1: Davis coming into camp in shape for the first time since,
Speaker 1: and you've got Lebron James still looking damn good. Feel
Speaker 1: some day emergency here. Understand understand that that something has
Speaker 1: to be done. I believe they're going to do something,
Speaker 1: but I certainly hope that they don't talk themselves like
Speaker 1: Brooklyn into bringing the situation to camp and see what happens.
Speaker 1: That would just be such a reckless waste. Alright, So
Speaker 1: the number one thing that you guys disagreed with from
Speaker 1: my top twenty five list was having Nikolaogitch, the back
Speaker 1: to back m v P and world destroying basketball player
Speaker 1: that he is way back at number seven on my
Speaker 1: list as opposed to somewhere higher. Now, every time this
Speaker 1: has been brought up, I tell you, guys, it's just
Speaker 1: a personal basketball philosophy thing. I don't value what big
Speaker 1: men do on a basketball court as much as I
Speaker 1: value what perimeter players do, particularly big perimeter wings in
Speaker 1: this league. But every time it's come up, we've only
Speaker 1: kind of glanced by the topic or briefly touched on it.
Speaker 1: I've never had a chance to really dive into this concept.
Speaker 1: So what I want to do today is. I want
Speaker 1: to go over the five archetypes of NBA superstars, give
Speaker 1: you guys some examples of players that fit into those archetypes,
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about their typical strengths and weaknesses.
Speaker 1: Then I can get into exactly why I view big
Speaker 1: men as less valuable as the big perimeter players that
Speaker 1: are in this league. And last, but not least, to
Speaker 1: the Yoki fans, don't be super upset about number seven
Speaker 1: because the number on the list has a lot more
Speaker 1: to do with how stacked the league is with talent.
Speaker 1: This is a league that has Lebron James and Janis
Speaker 1: Antenna Compo and Steph Curry and Kevin Durant and Luca
Speaker 1: don Shitch and Kawhi Leonard and you guys get the point.
Speaker 1: There's just the league is more talented than it's ever been,
Speaker 1: so I wouldn't think of it as number seven the
Speaker 1: same way as it was ten fifteen years ago. We
Speaker 1: have ten fifteen legitimate star level players in this league,
Speaker 1: and this is just the way it works when you're
Speaker 1: trying to rank those guys. And again, this is just
Speaker 1: my take on it. Some people view Yokich is more valuable.
Speaker 1: I viume is less valuable. Let's get into the weeds
Speaker 1: and figure out why. Um. So, as far as the
Speaker 1: superstar archetypes go, I had five, the hyper athletic guard,
Speaker 1: the big scoring wing, the big playmaking wing, the center,
Speaker 1: and the aliens. Now for aliens, I put down Steph
Speaker 1: Curry and Janice. We're not going to spend a ton
Speaker 1: a ton of time talking about them. They just don't
Speaker 1: fit into any of these other molds. Steff as many things.
Speaker 1: He is not a hyper athletic guard. Janice is. Some
Speaker 1: people call him a center, but he's not really. But
Speaker 1: some people call him a wing, but he's not really.
Speaker 1: But he's bringing the ball up the floor, but he's
Speaker 1: dunking on everybody, Like none of it actually makes any
Speaker 1: sense with either of those two guys. And for the record,
Speaker 1: I think there are the two best players in the
Speaker 1: world right now, So I definitely don't mean that as
Speaker 1: a sign of disrespect. We're not gonna spend too much
Speaker 1: time on them. Primarily going to focus on the verse four.
Speaker 1: So the hyper athletic guard, the this is John Morant,
Speaker 1: this was Russell Westbrook, this was John wall this was
Speaker 1: Derrick Rose. We've seen this archetype come through the league
Speaker 1: a million times. It's a freak athlete that no one
Speaker 1: can keep in front off the dribble because they're the
Speaker 1: quickest players in the entire league, which presents a huge
Speaker 1: mismatch problem and leads to all of the ridiculous highlights
Speaker 1: that we see from these guys. That specific dynamic. That
Speaker 1: inability to contain them off the dribble because they're quicker
Speaker 1: than everybody leads to a bunch of cascading positive effects.
Speaker 1: Puts revs in a bind. They have no idea how
Speaker 1: to officiate these guys when they go flying through the
Speaker 1: lane and they're smaller than everybody and every bit of
Speaker 1: contact shows up more on them than it does on
Speaker 1: other players. It requires defenses to abandon their core principles
Speaker 1: to pack the paint, which ends up giving up a
Speaker 1: ton of open threes. And most of these guys, at
Speaker 1: various points in their careers have had long, extensive stretches
Speaker 1: of great playmaking because of what defenses have had to
Speaker 1: do to try to keep them out of the paint. However,
Speaker 1: they typically can't shoot. John Morant is the best shooter
Speaker 1: of the group, and that's not saying much. Although I
Speaker 1: do think that's the big reason why he does have
Speaker 1: potential to enter higher ranks to the league that the
Speaker 1: other guys never did, and they're typically terrible defensive players.
Speaker 1: Even the better athletes of the group, John Wall and
Speaker 1: Russell Westbrook never really put together consistent stretches of good
Speaker 1: defense in this league, and for the most part, all
Speaker 1: four of those guys have been bad, and John Morant
Speaker 1: in particular, was really bad in this playoff runt. I
Speaker 1: actually view this as the least values valuable superstar archetype,
Speaker 1: the hyper athletics small guard, and for all the good
Speaker 1: they bring, there's just so much bad that holds them
Speaker 1: back that I view them as the least valuable of
Speaker 1: the of the superstar archetypes. The next is the big
Speaker 1: scoring wing. So this is like Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard,
Speaker 1: Paul George. You guys get the point. Big guys typically
Speaker 1: between six and six nine, can dribble the hell out
Speaker 1: of the basketball and can score from any spot on
Speaker 1: the floor. These guys can do some mismatch hunting too.
Speaker 1: It's not the same type of mismatch problem that the
Speaker 1: super quick guards present, but they can attack smaller guards,
Speaker 1: particularly in post up situations or shooting over the top,
Speaker 1: and they can attack slow footed bigs that they can
Speaker 1: pull them away from the basket and try to drive
Speaker 1: around them. The big plus with these big scoring wings
Speaker 1: is they're typically immune to spacing concerns. So almost every
Speaker 1: other player that will talk about require space to operate,
Speaker 1: but these guys are players that specialize in shooting over
Speaker 1: the top of defense. So who cares if you pack
Speaker 1: the paint If what I do for a living is
Speaker 1: shoot over the top of you. These guys, in their
Speaker 1: immunity to spacing concerns, allows you to play role players
Speaker 1: that are better defensive players, better reboundies, better athletes, maybe
Speaker 1: lesser shooters because that spacing doesn't matter as much to
Speaker 1: them as it does to other types of stars around
Speaker 1: the league. They also typically are dominant perimeter defensive players
Speaker 1: because they're great athletes. Kevin Durant a little bit different here.
Speaker 1: He's not as good on the perimeter, but he's an
Speaker 1: excellent rim protector. But he's also much taller than the
Speaker 1: other guys on this list. But Kauai and Paul George
Speaker 1: classic examples. They're freak athletes that devote their resources and
Speaker 1: time and effort to becoming great defensive players, and as
Speaker 1: a result, they can impact games a great deal as
Speaker 1: perimeter defensive players, but they're usually pretty average to below
Speaker 1: average playmakers. They see the game through the lens of
Speaker 1: creating their own shot rather than through the lens of
Speaker 1: creating their team shots, so that means they can get
Speaker 1: tunnel vision from time to time, fail to understand the
Speaker 1: rhythm and flow of the game, and they can take
Speaker 1: some bad shots right. They're also dependent on their shots
Speaker 1: going in in order for their impact to truly be felt.
Speaker 1: So when you re lie in knocking down pull up
Speaker 1: jumpers over the top of defense for a good percentage
Speaker 1: of your offense, all it takes is for you to
Speaker 1: have a bad shooting night and a good amount of
Speaker 1: your impact goes out the window. That's what happened Katie
Speaker 1: against Boston. His pull up jumper left him and suddenly
Speaker 1: his impact was massively limited. He ends up getting swept
Speaker 1: Kauai against Denver, and the bubble in his jumper stops falling,
Speaker 1: particularly in fourth quarters, doesn't have another punch that he
Speaker 1: can go to. His impact gets limited. Suddenly Yoki outplays him. Right.
Speaker 1: So these big scoring wings, just like any of The
Speaker 1: other archetypes come with pluses and minuses. The big minus
Speaker 1: there as they are dependent on shots going in for
Speaker 1: their impact to be felt. The big playmaking wing this
Speaker 1: is Luca don chitch Er, Lebron James James Harden and
Speaker 1: his prime would have factored into this list as well,
Speaker 1: but he's no longer at that level. They can score
Speaker 1: nearly as well as the big scoring wings, it just
Speaker 1: looks different. They usually rely a little bit more on
Speaker 1: size and strength than they do on skill. Um. They
Speaker 1: have some of the same matchup hunting potential as the
Speaker 1: big scoring wings, so they can attack smaller perimeter players
Speaker 1: and post up situations, or they can attack slower footed
Speaker 1: bigs if they pull them away from the basket. They
Speaker 1: keep role players engaged and confident by persistently feeding them
Speaker 1: in their sweet spots on the floor. They are offensive engines.
Speaker 1: They don't have tunnel vision looking for their own shot.
Speaker 1: They look for their team to get shots. They typically
Speaker 1: are more reactive rather than predetermining what they're going to do.
Speaker 1: They're typically making reads rather than just looking to score.
Speaker 1: This creates spacing for them. Their passing ability, their relentless
Speaker 1: willingness to make reads keeps them in single coverage opportunities
Speaker 1: because teams are scared to help, which is what allows
Speaker 1: them to be super efficient. Luca and Lebron are so
Speaker 1: good at that specifically, however, they have such a huge
Speaker 1: offensive workload that they tend to take possessions off on
Speaker 1: the defensive end of the floor. Because guys like Kauai
Speaker 1: and Paul George don't have a ton of playmaking responsibility,
Speaker 1: and because they usually give up the basketball when they're
Speaker 1: not actively looking to score, they have a little bit
Speaker 1: more energy for the defensive end of the floor. Luca
Speaker 1: takes just about damn ar every defensive possession off. Lebron,
Speaker 1: to his credit, has had extensive stretches of his career
Speaker 1: almost a decade earlier where he was a great defensive
Speaker 1: player and in high leverage situations typically turns it up
Speaker 1: on that end of the floor and can be an
Speaker 1: impact defensive player. But that's a typical thing that happens.
Speaker 1: Happened to James Harden, happened to Luca don Chiz, happened
Speaker 1: to Lebron. For long stretches. They have such a huge
Speaker 1: offensive workload that they tend to let go of the
Speaker 1: defensive rope. The last thing with these kinds of uh
Speaker 1: this archetype is they're highly dependent on competent role players,
Speaker 1: particularly attacking close out, so either knocking down threes in
Speaker 1: spot up situations or attacking that close out to extend
Speaker 1: the advantages the defenses. In rotation. Of all of the archetypes,
Speaker 1: I think the big playmaking wing depends the most on
Speaker 1: competent role players to reach the peak of their impact centers.
Speaker 1: So this is Nicola Yokich, Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis. I'd
Speaker 1: even include Carl Town's on this list. All four of
Speaker 1: these guys made my top twenty five players list. They
Speaker 1: are a massive mismatch problem against almost every living defender.
Speaker 1: Because the league went smaller, we swapped out big, strong,
Speaker 1: power forwards that were all built like Drew Gooden for
Speaker 1: another perimeter player, so the league got faster and smaller.
Speaker 1: Most of the centers we see now are vertical spacers,
Speaker 1: more mobile, more thin, right, So as a result, there's
Speaker 1: just very few bodies in the league that can hang
Speaker 1: with these guys, and as a result, they are a
Speaker 1: massive mismatch problem on every single possession. Similar to the
Speaker 1: hyper athletic guards. This forces teams to abandon their core
Speaker 1: defensive concepts to construct a custom defense to deal with
Speaker 1: these massive mismatch problems, usually double teaming every single time,
Speaker 1: packing the paint at all costs. This takes time to
Speaker 1: figure out too, So one of these days, when if
Speaker 1: Yoki does end up winning a title, I think this
Speaker 1: will be a big part of how he does it.
Speaker 1: It will be so difficult for teams to adjust to
Speaker 1: how to guard him that he might be able to
Speaker 1: get an early series lead that he can hold onto.
Speaker 1: None of them have been able to pull that off yet,
Speaker 1: but we will see. They operate close to the rim,
Speaker 1: so they're less prone to bad shooting nights. Like we
Speaker 1: talked about with these uh, these big scoring wings, they're
Speaker 1: immune to spacing because they shoot over the top. But
Speaker 1: there's no guarantee that they're gonna shoot well every single night.
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, it's expected that they won't
Speaker 1: on a handful of nights in every single playoff series. Right,
Speaker 1: as a big man, if you're operating with most of
Speaker 1: your shot attempts between you know, like seven seven to
Speaker 1: ten ft from the rim, you're just gonna shoot a
Speaker 1: higher percentage more consistently, and you're less prone to the
Speaker 1: nightmare bad shooting nights where you go five for twenty
Speaker 1: two or anything like that. They can protect the rim
Speaker 1: if they're allowed to stay there. I wouldn't count Carl
Speaker 1: Towns in this group, but yeah, if you let Anthony
Speaker 1: Davis or Nicola Yokich or Joel Embi just camp around
Speaker 1: the basket, they will cause problems for you if you
Speaker 1: repeatedly drive into them. However, they are slow footed, so
Speaker 1: they strugg all in transition and if you spread them
Speaker 1: out in a five out dribble attack. They typically can
Speaker 1: only play one style. Bigs and guards on this list
Speaker 1: excuse me. Wings and guards on this list, they can
Speaker 1: play fast, they can play slow. The wings on this
Speaker 1: list can operate from different spots on the floor. They
Speaker 1: are malleable and can adjust their games to the dynamics
Speaker 1: happening around them. Big men cannot do that, at least
Speaker 1: not to the same extent. They typically need the game
Speaker 1: to be slow. They typically like to operate out of
Speaker 1: the same spots on the floor. You're Yoki out of
Speaker 1: the high post and beat out of the low post. Right,
Speaker 1: They're a little bit more stuck in their ways now.
Speaker 1: Yokich has some transition ability as a play starter, getting
Speaker 1: rebounds and starting the break as a great outlet passer.
Speaker 1: That's to his credit. Anthony Davis is kind of immune
Speaker 1: to all of the foot speed stuff. He can cover
Speaker 1: ground in perimeter and he does run the floor and
Speaker 1: transition really well and get stuff from Lebron over the top,
Speaker 1: quick post ups in transition and things like that. So
Speaker 1: it's not harder fast rule, but generally they can only
Speaker 1: play one style. They're susceptible to fatigue as they're running
Speaker 1: up and down the floor. Again, Anthony Davis is kind
Speaker 1: of immune to this, but Carl Towns and Nicol Yokich
Speaker 1: and Joel Embiat, if you get them in a track meet,
Speaker 1: they will be the first ones to break. They're inefficient
Speaker 1: away from the rim. This is not Carl Towns, this
Speaker 1: is the other three, but Anthony Davis, Yokich in this
Speaker 1: past season, and e beat overall. As they get further
Speaker 1: away from the basket, they get very inefficient. So they're
Speaker 1: susceptible if you pack the paint to going through long
Speaker 1: extended periods of missing shots, and then most don't handle
Speaker 1: the ball or pass it very well. This is why
Speaker 1: I think Yokich is the best of the bunch. He's
Speaker 1: the guy that has the high level playmaking that these
Speaker 1: guys don't have. But their inability to pass the ball
Speaker 1: and their inability to dribble the basketball typically means they
Speaker 1: have to be play finishers rather than play starters. They
Speaker 1: need people to get them into their preferred spots on
Speaker 1: the floor or they can't be as effective. That's it.
Speaker 1: Those are general rules for bigs. We're gonna dive in
Speaker 1: it a little bit more with Yo gets here in
Speaker 1: a minute. And then you're aliens like Janice and Steph.
Speaker 1: Even they have some weaknesses. I won't dive deep into
Speaker 1: them because we just did this for our player player rankings.
Speaker 1: But Janice typically needs to play with a shot maker,
Speaker 1: someone that can hit shots over the top because in
Speaker 1: late game situations he struggles to shoot over the top
Speaker 1: of defenders. And then Steph needs smart role players because
Speaker 1: of the fact that he creates attention away from the rim.
Speaker 1: He needs guys that can put the ball on the
Speaker 1: floor and run quick three on twos and quick four
Speaker 1: on threes, things along those lines. And then obviously Steph
Speaker 1: can't deeply impact games defensively because of his lack of athleticism.
Speaker 1: If I had to rank them in order, I'd put
Speaker 1: playmaking wings at number one, scoring wings at number two,
Speaker 1: bigs at number three, and then hyper athletic guards at
Speaker 1: number four. As much as I am down on bigs,
Speaker 1: I'm even more down on hyper athletic guards. I think
Speaker 1: they become exceptionally predictable in the playoffs and easier to
Speaker 1: game plan for. Their defensive issues become an issue. They're
Speaker 1: easy to attack and mismatch situations. I'm lower on hyper
Speaker 1: athletic guard. It's so why am I lower on biggs? So?
Speaker 1: First of all, slow footedness is really easy to game
Speaker 1: plan against. You instruct your wings to run the floor
Speaker 1: on every missshot, and you instruct your rebounders to make
Speaker 1: quick outlet passes and deliberately make an effort to be
Speaker 1: aggressive early in the clock even if you miss shots.
Speaker 1: Setting the tone of the game as an up and
Speaker 1: down track meet, even if it affects your own efficiency
Speaker 1: for small bursts, it will eventually lead the big men
Speaker 1: to fatiguing and you will start to get easier and
Speaker 1: easier opportunities. There play five perimeter players, and you can
Speaker 1: force the big to repeatedly guard off the dribble, you
Speaker 1: will get dribble penetration. Then the big man will have
Speaker 1: to guard in rotation and you will find openings. It's
Speaker 1: about to guarantee Yo kich If you can let him
Speaker 1: sit in a drop coverage and you d i've into him,
Speaker 1: he can be impactful as a defensive player around the rim.
Speaker 1: But golden state in this playoff run and everyone else
Speaker 1: who plays against Yoki, if you can pull him higher
Speaker 1: out of his drop so that he has to come
Speaker 1: to the level of the screen or to switch and
Speaker 1: cover cover individually in switches, you will go right around him.
Speaker 1: And Steph repeatedly went right around him. And it's not
Speaker 1: just stuff that can do that. Just about any competent
Speaker 1: ball handler in the league will be able to beat
Speaker 1: Yoka Jo off the dribble. Once you beat him off
Speaker 1: the dribble, what happens. Help has to come. Once help
Speaker 1: has to come, then what does Yoki have to do.
Speaker 1: He has to sprint across the floor to get to
Speaker 1: another shooter as he covers in rotation. Now you're testing
Speaker 1: his foot speed again. If you go five out against
Speaker 1: these types of players, you will get dribble penetration and
Speaker 1: you will get high quality shots. As a result, they
Speaker 1: have legitimate defensive weaknesses in these playoffs situations. Think of
Speaker 1: it like this, slow footed wings and guards get attacked.
Speaker 1: Like remember when Kyle Korver was playing on the calves,
Speaker 1: how frequently he would get attacked with the Utah Jazz.
Speaker 1: How they try to pull Boyon Macdonovitch away from the
Speaker 1: rim and attack him. Every slow footed player in the
Speaker 1: NBA gets attacked. These guys are exceptionally slow footed, so
Speaker 1: it's even more exaggerated in that in that in that regard,
Speaker 1: you're gonna give up some baskets as a seize mismatch.
Speaker 1: But the way I look at it is, there's not
Speaker 1: a player you can leave in single coverage against your
Speaker 1: kitch anywhere in the league. Really not a player that's
Speaker 1: going to consistently stop him. So you're probably gonna have
Speaker 1: to throw extra bodies to him anyway, And at least
Speaker 1: if you run your personnel and with the priority towards
Speaker 1: perimeter players, you'll be able to attack him. On the
Speaker 1: other end, that arrangement will work out for you in
Speaker 1: the long run. They will score baskets against mismatches on offense,
Speaker 1: but deep dynamic of the game will take on a
Speaker 1: track meat feel, and in the long run, you will
Speaker 1: get better shots because of that fatigue and lack of
Speaker 1: foot speed. Post defense is brutal. Refs let everything go.
Speaker 1: It's also kind of like a psychological phenomenon for refs.
Speaker 1: All of you guys who have played the game of
Speaker 1: basketball know this. If you are big and you try
Speaker 1: to inflict your bigness on a smaller defender, the ref
Speaker 1: is gonna give the small guy a lot of leeway
Speaker 1: to hit you. That's just it's a psychological phenomenon. It
Speaker 1: happens with every single ref that I've ever come into
Speaker 1: contact with or seen on television. It's just what happens.
Speaker 1: And in general, right now in the NBA, post defense
Speaker 1: is like the Wild West. Everything goes that actively limits
Speaker 1: the capability of big men, especially in the playoffs when
Speaker 1: they start to swallow the wristle the whistle. Like we
Speaker 1: talked about earlier, biggs need to be put in position
Speaker 1: by ball handlers so they're susceptible to ball denial. We
Speaker 1: saw this with the Sixers in the Miami Heat. In
Speaker 1: this playoff run, Miami used a front system with backside
Speaker 1: help so they would have whoever was guarding and b
Speaker 1: jump in front, squat down low and stop the post entry.
Speaker 1: Sorry about that phone call from the wife. Sit in
Speaker 1: front and block the post entry and forced the pass
Speaker 1: over the top. It's a lob pass. Miami would offer
Speaker 1: backside help to take that pass away. They were able
Speaker 1: to straight up deny and beat the basketball and a
Speaker 1: lot of possessions. That is a problem with post up
Speaker 1: players that you do not get with perimeter players who
Speaker 1: can simply dribble to where they want to go on
Speaker 1: the floor Yo kitchen and d Yo kitchen. A d
Speaker 1: can bring the ball up the floor, but it's less
Speaker 1: than ideal, and you don't want them running point for
Speaker 1: you all day. They're also slow to get to their
Speaker 1: spots and kind of methodical. The bottom line here is
Speaker 1: that in ideal conditions, anyone of Anthony Davis or Joel
Speaker 1: Embiid or Nicola Yokich can't appear like they're the best
Speaker 1: player in the world in ideal conditions, but it's too
Speaker 1: easy to disrupt those conditions and expose their flaws. And
Speaker 1: that's why I prefer the bigger wings. Each one the
Speaker 1: bigs that I mentioned on that list has huge, massive weaknesses.
Speaker 1: Carl Town's lights out perimeter shooter. Same type of interior
Speaker 1: match of Nightmare, but he's by far the worst defender
Speaker 1: of the group, and he's a horrific passer. He had
Speaker 1: twenty seven turnovers to just thirteen assists in this playoff run.
Speaker 1: Anthony Davis is the best defensive player in the group.
Speaker 1: He's immune to all of the footspeed stuff I was
Speaker 1: talking about, but he can't pass, and he's arguably the
Speaker 1: worst volume perimeter shooter in all of basketball right now.
Speaker 1: Joel Embiat is really good defensively around the rim, but
Speaker 1: he's weak on the perimeter. He also can't pass, and
Speaker 1: if you make him go outside of the restricted area,
Speaker 1: he's gonna miss shots. He missed two thirds of his
Speaker 1: shot attempts outside of the restricted area in this playoff run.
Speaker 1: Now Yokich is the best of the group, but his
Speaker 1: jump shot is starting to fall apart lately. We talked
Speaker 1: about that in the list, and again he is the
Speaker 1: biggest or most susceptible of all four of them to
Speaker 1: the foot speed stuff. He really struggles if you run
Speaker 1: him up and down the floor, and he really goes
Speaker 1: if you make him defend away from the basket. Again,
Speaker 1: like I said, bigger wings, they can thrive in any pace,
Speaker 1: any type of game. They can set themselves up on offense,
Speaker 1: so they're not dependent on ball handlers to get them
Speaker 1: into positions where they can be successful, and they're comfortable
Speaker 1: from all of these different spots on the floor. Again,
Speaker 1: like we talked about before, all of these archetypes have
Speaker 1: different strengths and weaknesses. However, for me personally, I think
Speaker 1: in terms of a coach game planning against a star,
Speaker 1: I would rather game plan against a big man like
Speaker 1: a Yokich or an Embiid, Anthony Davis or Carl Town's
Speaker 1: then I would against a big scoring wing or a
Speaker 1: big playmaking wing. I think there are there are proven
Speaker 1: methods to attack the bigs, whereas there's just ideas that
Speaker 1: that you're just throwing stuff at the wall against these
Speaker 1: perimeter wings. And so again that's just my basketball philosophy.
Speaker 1: There are gonna be some gms around the league that
Speaker 1: agree with me, and they're gonna be some that think
Speaker 1: Yokich is the best are in the world. Nobody's got
Speaker 1: it all figured out. We all have our own basketball concepts.
Speaker 1: As is always the case, I'm always interested to read
Speaker 1: the comments and see what you guys think about the game.
Speaker 1: I picked the brains of basketball coaches and minds that
Speaker 1: I meet whenever I have a chance. This is just
Speaker 1: where I stand in my view of the game as
Speaker 1: of right now. All right, guys, that is all I
Speaker 1: have for today. As always, I appreciate your support. Don't
Speaker 1: forget to drop mail back questions underneath the tweet that
Speaker 1: I send out later today. And I'll see you guys
Speaker 1: on Wednesday. The volume