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Speaker 1: Daniel, Are you excited about going to space? You know,

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Speaker 1: I think that there are plenty of people who are

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Speaker 1: more excited about taking that journey and I am. So

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Speaker 1: you're gonna let them go first, and then you're going

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna wait until they build comfortable suburbs on the

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Speaker 1: Moon before I go there. So you're gonna buy a

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Speaker 1: vacation home on the moon. You know, house prices in

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Speaker 1: southern California are getting pretty steep. I have no idea

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Speaker 1: where my kids are going to move. What did they

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Speaker 1: move to the Moon? Would you go visit them? I

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Speaker 1: might wait until they have grandkids. That's cold, man, not

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Speaker 1: as cold as the far side of the Moon. I

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Speaker 1: am poor handmade cartoonist and the creator of pH D comics. Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor at

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Speaker 1: UC Irvine, and I love living in southern California. I

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Speaker 1: do too. It's the best. But it would also be

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Speaker 1: pretty sunny on the Moon. Right the moon gets a

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Speaker 1: lot of sun. The moon is either too hot or

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Speaker 1: too cold. It's kind of like Chicago. I see, you're

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Speaker 1: like the Goldie Bears of astronauts. You like it just right. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: There's that one spot on the rim where it just

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Speaker 1: stays the right temperature. But it's some pretty thin real

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Speaker 1: estate on the moon. Now, if your grand kids are

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Speaker 1: born in the moon, Daniel, would that technically make them aliens?

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Speaker 1: Extraterrestrials for sure? I don't know about aliens teas right,

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Speaker 1: that's the same thing as an alien. So maybe I

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Speaker 1: would finally get to meet aliens. Yeah, there you go,

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Speaker 1: but only if you go there, all right, I'll commit

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Speaker 1: to going. If my kids have their own kids on

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Speaker 1: the moon, I'm in What if they were born on

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Speaker 1: the moon and their moon Well, I'll just bring some

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Speaker 1: moon pies. I'm sure we'll get along. Welcome to our podcast,

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Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of My

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio, where we share are over the Moon, an

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Speaker 1: enthusiasm for understanding the universe, for digging in deep to

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Speaker 1: all of those tough questions about how everything works, to

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Speaker 1: wondering about what's out there deep in space that might

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Speaker 1: be holding answers to the next generation of questions that

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Speaker 1: scientists are asking. We don't shy away from asking any

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Speaker 1: of those questions and trying to explain all of the

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Speaker 1: answers to you. Yeah, because it is a pretty big

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Speaker 1: universe with a lot of space for us to explore

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Speaker 1: and go visit and maybe even live out there among

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Speaker 1: the stars as we continue our journey of humanity, of

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Speaker 1: exploration and learning about how the universe works. Do you

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Speaker 1: feel like colonization of space is inevitable? I don't know

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Speaker 1: if inevitable, but it definitely sounds interesting and fun and

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Speaker 1: cool and dangerous for the first people who do it.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be one of those things that starts

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Speaker 1: out really dangerous and take some brave souls to lay

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Speaker 1: the groundwork. But after a while people will be like

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Speaker 1: falling asleep on their commuter shuttles to the moon. Yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 1: Or the elevator. Can we build an elevator to the Moon?

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Speaker 1: I think we have a lot of nanotechnology puzzles between

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Speaker 1: us in a space elevator to build that t well

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Speaker 1: that's tall enough that it won't snap, because when the

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Speaker 1: space elevator crashes to the surface, you've got a bad day. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the plot of the New Foundation TV series.

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Speaker 1: And speaking of TV series, it's interesting to think about

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Speaker 1: what science fiction and TV writers can come up with

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Speaker 1: because it does give us ideas about how we can

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Speaker 1: go and explore space and what would happen if we do.

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Speaker 1: Because it's not just academics and physicists who are wondering

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Speaker 1: how the world works and coming up with ideas for

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Speaker 1: how we might explore it, what we might find. Their

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Speaker 1: folks like you, out there thinking about the universe, and

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Speaker 1: also people out there writing stories, people developing alternative universes

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Speaker 1: in which we do explore space or go further or

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Speaker 1: discover aliens or discover we are the aliens. On the podcast,

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Speaker 1: we are big fans of science fiction, of course, and

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Speaker 1: so we love talking about the science of some of

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Speaker 1: these alternate universes and hearing about the process of creating them.

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Speaker 1: Make it sound like maybe a TV shows and science

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Speaker 1: chain is are kind of simulations of the universe, like

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Speaker 1: where you can run experiments. Yeah, they're sort of thought

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Speaker 1: experiments written large, right, thought experiments turned into TV shows. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So to the on the podcast will be tackling the

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Speaker 1: science fiction universe for all mankind. Now, Daniel, this is

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Speaker 1: a TV show on Apple TV, I think right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's on Apple TV. They just finished their third season

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Speaker 1: and they're in the process of making season four. It's

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Speaker 1: a really fun show for those of us who are

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Speaker 1: enthusiastic about exploration of space, not just by robots but

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Speaker 1: by people. But wait, I thought you're not excited about

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Speaker 1: exploring space or is just excited for other people to

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Speaker 1: explore space. Thing. I'm excited for people to explore space.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be on those trips myself, but

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Speaker 1: then you won't get to experience the best part of it.

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Speaker 1: It's like you're you're going to be living vicariously for

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Speaker 1: the rest of your life. That's okay. I enjoy reading

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Speaker 1: science fiction and I also enjoy reading science fact. Both

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Speaker 1: of them are are fun for me, and I think

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Speaker 1: other people have a better temperament for being test astronauts. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So this is kind of part of our series of

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Speaker 1: episodes where we talk about the television series or films

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Speaker 1: that have to do with science fiction, and we even

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Speaker 1: get to talk to some of the writers behind some

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Speaker 1: of these pieces of work. Yeah, and on today's episodes,

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Speaker 1: you'll hear my interview with one of the writers for

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Speaker 1: For All Man Kinds, Sabrina Almeida, who was a really

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Speaker 1: interesting life story about how she got to be a

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Speaker 1: science fiction author. Yeah, We'll get to that interview later

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Speaker 1: in the show, but I guess first let's talk about

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Speaker 1: the show itself. This is, as we said on Apple TV,

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Speaker 1: and it's by the creator of Battlestar Galactica, right, Ronald Moore. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: another really fun show that I enjoyed. Also co created

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Speaker 1: by Ben Nadivy and Matt Wolport. This show for all

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Speaker 1: Mankind is really exciting because it explores like an alternative

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Speaker 1: history and imagines the universe very similar hours. But what

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Speaker 1: if one important event was different, but such an important

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Speaker 1: event that it changed to the course of history completely

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Speaker 1: in a really fascinating eating away. Yeah. There, that's a

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Speaker 1: pretty interesting idea that I think I've seen in several shows. Right,

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Speaker 1: He's a there a show out there where like the

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Speaker 1: Nazis win the Second World War. Yeah, that's the Philip K.

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Speaker 1: Dick show called The Man in the High Castle. That's

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Speaker 1: really fun. Not a whole lot of science fiction in it,

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Speaker 1: but it's definitely an interesting alt history, like what would

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Speaker 1: our world be like if a few battles had gone differently? Now,

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Speaker 1: Ronald Moore, he's the creator of this show, and he's

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Speaker 1: known for Battles for Galactica, but also he used to

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Speaker 1: write on Star Trek, right, Oh is that right. I

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Speaker 1: don't know his history. Yeah, I think he used to

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Speaker 1: work maybe even with Gene Roddenberry. I forget. Maybe on

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Speaker 1: the Next Generation episode. He's an old hatted sci fi TV.

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Speaker 1: That is what I'm saying. Well, this show is really

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Speaker 1: fun because the central event that pivots history in the

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Speaker 1: show is the space race. We all know that in

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Speaker 1: our universe, Americans landed on the moon first. Neil Armstrong

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Speaker 1: was the first human to step on the moon. But

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Speaker 1: in this alternative universe of for all mankind, it was

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Speaker 1: the Soviet Union that landed on the moon first. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: that's right. This is back in the sixties, right, the

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Speaker 1: big space race. Everyone was trying to get to the

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Speaker 1: Moon first, and the US did it first. I guess

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Speaker 1: in reality, how far back or how far behind were

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Speaker 1: there Russians, because I know they put you know, a

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Speaker 1: man on the moon the dog like right on the

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Speaker 1: moon spot Nick. They seem to be ahead for a while,

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Speaker 1: but then the US kind of blew past them with

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Speaker 1: the Apollo program. Yeah, that's exactly right. The U s

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Speaker 1: s are really started off the space race very dramatically.

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Speaker 1: Sput Nick and the first astronaut orbiting the Earth, and

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Speaker 1: that really inspired the US to pour a huge amount

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Speaker 1: of money and energy into the space race, culminating with

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Speaker 1: them landing on the Moon first. And that lasted a

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Speaker 1: little while and ended up in the Shuttle program. But

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Speaker 1: the US are sort of faded in the space race,

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Speaker 1: and as a response, in our universe, at least the

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Speaker 1: US did as well, and now we don't spend nearly

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Speaker 1: as much time or energy on space as we did

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Speaker 1: back in the sixties when we had like a vibrant rival.

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Speaker 1: So one of the key conceits of this show is

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Speaker 1: that the US basically never takes their foot off the pedal.

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Speaker 1: They just keep pouring time and energy and money into

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Speaker 1: the space race, and so it flourishes for much longer

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Speaker 1: than it did in our universe. M So in this history,

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Speaker 1: the USS are landed on the Moon first, so they

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Speaker 1: beat the US, and what kind of repercussions does that

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Speaker 1: have on the history and politics of the US. So

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of panic in the upper echelons of

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Speaker 1: the politics of the United States. And in just the

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Speaker 1: same way that like sput Nick and your Garrion inspired

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Speaker 1: the US to pour a lot of time and energy

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Speaker 1: and money into it. The Russians landing on the moon

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Speaker 1: first meant that the Americans accelerated their program. They put

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Speaker 1: even more time and energy and money into it. And

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Speaker 1: then by the time the Americans get to the Moon,

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Speaker 1: the Russians are already like building a moon base, and

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Speaker 1: so it just sort of never slows down. They keep

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Speaker 1: sort of like hopping over each other making these advancements. Wow,

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Speaker 1: so there are moon bases on the show. Yeah, their

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Speaker 1: moon bases, and in the recent season they even go

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Speaker 1: to Mars. It's exciting. Well, we get to later seasons later.

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Speaker 1: But there's also kind of a fundamental twist about the show,

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Speaker 1: including sort of a twist on its title. Yeah they

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Speaker 1: call it for all Mankind. But there's also a very

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Speaker 1: important twist in politics which is inspired by the Russians

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Speaker 1: not just putting the first person on the Moon, but

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Speaker 1: then landing a woman on the moon. And in the show,

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Speaker 1: female astronauts at NASA are not taken very seriously. It's

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Speaker 1: all dominated by men. But when the us SR puts

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Speaker 1: a woman on the moon, that inspires the equal rights

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Speaker 1: movement in the United States, and so in the show,

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Speaker 1: for example, the equal Rights Amendment, which in our universe

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Speaker 1: didn't pass, does pass in the show, And so you

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Speaker 1: see a lot of women advancing to very high levels

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Speaker 1: of government and of NASA and playing important roles and

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Speaker 1: being astronauts, again inspired by the achievements of our adversary,

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Speaker 1: sort of like making the point that progress is sometimes

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Speaker 1: best achieved in competition. M interesting. So the Russians there

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Speaker 1: were the first to put a woman on the moon,

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Speaker 1: and that inspired the US also, um, like, what's the

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Speaker 1: pressure there, I guess, because if you can get both

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Speaker 1: sexes on the moon, then you can have a colony.

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Speaker 1: There is that the idea? Because that wouldn't make the

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Speaker 1: US are worried. In the show, it's sort of just

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Speaker 1: embarrassed the US. It's spotlight of the fact that the

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Speaker 1: US was not taking their female astronauts seriously. And also

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Speaker 1: I think inspired activists in the US to push for

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Speaker 1: gender equality. When you see that something is possible, you

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Speaker 1: have role models, you have something to shoot for, is

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Speaker 1: something to point to. I think it makes your activism

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Speaker 1: more powerful, right, because I think that maybe the main character,

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Speaker 1: the central protagonist of the show is a woman, right,

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Speaker 1: a woman astronaut. All convice I know nothing of the show.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen it, so I'm just going from what

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Speaker 1: I've seen of trailers and billboards. It usually features a

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Speaker 1: woman in a space suit. Yeah, there is certainly an

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Speaker 1: astronaut who plays an important role, and there's another woman

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Speaker 1: who becomes the administrator of NASA, and then eventually they

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Speaker 1: have a woman president on the show things that we

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Speaker 1: have not yet achieved in our own universe. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: pretty sad. And the show sort of takes place across

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Speaker 1: multiple decades, right, Like, it doesn't just start off in

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Speaker 1: the sixties with the space rate. It actually kind of

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Speaker 1: moves a decade with each season. That's exactly right. So

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Speaker 1: they're showing like the ripple effects downstream of all these

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Speaker 1: changes of history, and it's fascinating because they're having to

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Speaker 1: imagine another universe with all the downstream effects of all

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Speaker 1: of this research, some of which like boosts computer technology,

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Speaker 1: but maybe they haven't made other discoveries that we have made.

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Speaker 1: So it's a really fun just like window into an

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Speaker 1: alternative view of what our lives it might be like, now,

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Speaker 1: do they take this butterfly ripple effect to the extreme,

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Speaker 1: like do their clothes change or do people in the

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Speaker 1: eighties alternate universe still dressed like they do in the eighties.

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Speaker 1: People in the nineties alternate universe still dressed like people

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Speaker 1: in our nineties universe. But do they still have hammer pants?

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Speaker 1: Nothing can stop mc hammer. I mean, he's just a

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Speaker 1: force in the multiverse, so there's nothing you can do.

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Speaker 1: They do take it seriously that they don't focus as

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Speaker 1: much on fast and they think about like technology, you know,

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Speaker 1: consumer technology. For example, they have like electric cars in

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Speaker 1: their universe much earlier than we do. They have people

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Speaker 1: communicating on video screens, but they don't have like small

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Speaker 1: devices as fast as we do. So it's interesting because

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Speaker 1: in some areas they are more advanced. In other areas

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Speaker 1: they are less advanced. It's kind of like, I guess

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Speaker 1: the Star Wars universe where they have warp drives, but

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Speaker 1: they have like terrible computer graphics under computer interface. Minimalist

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Speaker 1: computer graphics. You don't need any more than that, man,

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Speaker 1: just like the old computer games. We're just as good

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Speaker 1: as today's computer games. You don't need fancy graphics, that's right.

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Speaker 1: You don't need millions of pixels. You should be like

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Speaker 1: five to have fun. Right, Maybe you want to aim

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Speaker 1: the desk on. All you need is that one color screen,

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Speaker 1: you know, glowing green now, because I guess you know.

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Speaker 1: The idea is that in our real history, the space

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Speaker 1: rays really kind of boosted science and technology in the

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Speaker 1: US and around the world, where if you put more

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Speaker 1: emphasis on the space race, who knows how that could

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Speaker 1: have affected the technology we have today. Yeah, anytime you

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Speaker 1: invest in basic research, you see the downstream effects technologically

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Speaker 1: and economically. A lot of the advancements we have in

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Speaker 1: computer technology and miniaturization were motivated by a desire to

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Speaker 1: go to space, and also of course weapons research to

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Speaker 1: shrink stuff and put it on warheads. So anytime you're

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Speaker 1: pouring money into basic research and these kind of new technologies,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna discover stuff and that's going to lead to

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Speaker 1: new technologies and that's going to change the way everybody lives. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Like for example of Velcro I hear really got to

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Speaker 1: boost from the space program. Like you know, you maybe

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have all the Velker we have today if it

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Speaker 1: wasn't for the Apollo program, right, because they needed a

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Speaker 1: way to stick things to the wall in zero gravity.

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Speaker 1: Also astronaut ice cream, right, we wouldn't have that if

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Speaker 1: we didn't have astronauts important culinary advancements. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 1: So season one takes place in the sixties or seventies.

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Speaker 1: Season one takes place in the seventies, just after the

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Speaker 1: Russians have landed on the Moon, and then it's a

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Speaker 1: jump in the end, and these in twos in the eighties.

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Speaker 1: Season three is in the ninety nineties, and we've heard

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Speaker 1: recently this season four is going to be in the

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Speaker 1: two Thousand's interesting. I wonder if they'll still have you know,

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Speaker 1: historical events like September eleven. Maybe. Yeah, it's really fun.

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Speaker 1: They do use characters from our history. You know, Reagan

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Speaker 1: and Clinton are there, though Clinton loses the ninety two

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Speaker 1: election to a Republican woman, for example, And so you

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Speaker 1: get these fun little nuggets of familiar history that have

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Speaker 1: been changed in interesting ways. Well, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: science and I guess imaginary science here to unpact about

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Speaker 1: this show, to maybe stimulate some interesting discussions about space

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Speaker 1: and space tourism and space technology. So let's get into that.

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Speaker 1: But first let's take a quick break. All right, we're

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Speaker 1: talking about the science fiction Universe for All man Kind,

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Speaker 1: which is a television show and Apple TV, Daniel, do

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Speaker 1: you subscribe to Apple TV? Are they paying you to

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Speaker 1: dors the show? They're paying me in apples? Yes, No,

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Speaker 1: I'm a subscriber to Apple TV. I like a lot

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Speaker 1: of the stuff on there. I like that show Severance.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen that one Severance? Yes? Absolutely, I love

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Speaker 1: that show. Great speculative fiction, really high concept and very

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Speaker 1: well delivered. Also, what's the what's the show about the

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Speaker 1: video game company Mythic Questic Quest. That's a pretty good one,

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Speaker 1: that one I think is mocking video game companies, but

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Speaker 1: it does have a One of the characters is a

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Speaker 1: science fiction writer. Though you might be interested in that,

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Speaker 1: they make so much fun of him that is not fair.

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Speaker 1: He's one of the main path as characters. There we

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Speaker 1: are talking about the show for All Mankind, which is

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Speaker 1: science fiction by the creator of Battlestar Galactica. And that

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Speaker 1: was another fun show, right, That was another fun show,

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Speaker 1: really cool clever ideas. I like shows that have an

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Speaker 1: interesting new concept, take you to some new world and

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Speaker 1: really explore how it works. One of the things I

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Speaker 1: really liked about For All Mankind is that it really

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Speaker 1: does show you the scientific challenges of this doesn't just

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Speaker 1: like Dot dot dot their way to the Moon and

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Speaker 1: YadA YadA YadA their way to Mars. It really explores

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Speaker 1: like what would it take? What would be hard about it?

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Speaker 1: Are you saying they have a lot of these discussions

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Speaker 1: on screen, Like on the show they're talking about stand

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Speaker 1: in front of a blackboard or white board and working

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Speaker 1: out equations. They're not doing math on screen as much

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Speaker 1: as the whole structure of the show is about the

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Speaker 1: struggle against nature right to get to the Moon. It's

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Speaker 1: a huge endeavor. It's like climbing them out Everest. When

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Speaker 1: you do that, you have to plan, you need your resources,

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Speaker 1: you need to overcome obstacles, and so the whole show

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Speaker 1: is about how to overcome the obstacles to get to

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Speaker 1: the Moon, and to build a base there and to

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Speaker 1: run it and to staff it and what happens when

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Speaker 1: things go wrong. So's a lot of really interesting science

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Speaker 1: puzzles there, and how to make money on the Moon,

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Speaker 1: and lots of fun questions that they explore. M maybe

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Speaker 1: they should call the show Against All Gravity instead, because

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Speaker 1: I guess it is really hard to get to the

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Speaker 1: moon right. First of all, it just takes an enormous

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Speaker 1: amount of energy to leave the Earth, right, because you

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Speaker 1: have to accelerate up to ridiculous speed. Right, You do

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Speaker 1: need a lot of energy to leave the Earth, especially

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Speaker 1: if you're going to carry a lot of stuff up there.

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Speaker 1: You want to build a moon base, you want to

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Speaker 1: transport supplies, It does take a lot of energy to

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Speaker 1: just lift that stuff off the surface of the Earth.

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Speaker 1: So when strategy they explore is to try to build

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Speaker 1: a moon base and then try to find materials on

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Speaker 1: the Moon that you can use to sustain your moon

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Speaker 1: base so you don't need to be shipping everything from

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Speaker 1: Earth all the time. Yeah, you said that. The big

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Speaker 1: part of the plot as then trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: how to build moon bases, because I guess having a

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Speaker 1: moon base gives you a strategic position, you know, if

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Speaker 1: you're the U S against the USSR, right, Like, just

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Speaker 1: having a base there maybe gives you, who knows, some

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Speaker 1: some sort of strategic advantage. I'm not an expert on

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Speaker 1: space warfare strategy, but I think the idea is that

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Speaker 1: having a base out there does give you a strategic

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Speaker 1: advantage for later, for example, expl oring the Solar System.

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Speaker 1: It's much easier to launch from the Moon than it

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Speaker 1: is to launch from Earth. So if you can build

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Speaker 1: industry on the Moon, for example, then you can fabricate

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Speaker 1: satellites and ships and all sorts of stuff to explore

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Speaker 1: the rest of the Solar System. And there is unfortunately

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Speaker 1: a militarization of the Moon basis that happens, and even

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Speaker 1: some shooting. Now. I guess it must be kind of

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Speaker 1: a hard sell though, because like in our real history,

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Speaker 1: we said, we kind of dropped the idea of going

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Speaker 1: to the Moon and establishing a base there, right, because

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Speaker 1: I guess it's just really hard. It is really hard

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Speaker 1: and really expensive to live on the Moon. And I

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Speaker 1: think that one of the points of the show is

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Speaker 1: that the motivation in our universe to do that, a

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Speaker 1: lot of it really did come from politics, come from

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Speaker 1: like national pride, Like we're racing against the Russians. Does

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Speaker 1: it really make scientific sense to build laboratories on the Moon?

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Speaker 1: Do we really need those resources? I think in some

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Speaker 1: sense it really was just motivated by a desire to

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Speaker 1: beat the Russians more than like the actual scientific goals themselves.

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Speaker 1: It's more about ego maybe than any practical desire. But

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Speaker 1: as you said, it is important for exploration, and maybe

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Speaker 1: now that people are thinking about like mining the asteroids fields,

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Speaker 1: or you know, privatizing Mars. Then now it becomes maybe

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Speaker 1: an advantage to have a base on the Moon. And

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Speaker 1: if you do think about the deep future of humanity,

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Speaker 1: it seems like almost inevitable that we will have to

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Speaker 1: get off this planet if we don't want to be

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Speaker 1: vulnerable to comments and asteroids that might obliterate us and

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Speaker 1: destroy our civilization. And the Moon is sort of an

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Speaker 1: easy stepping stone. It's pretty close, it's fairly hospitable compared

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Speaker 1: to other places. There are some useful resources up there.

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Speaker 1: You can still get stuff from Earth if you need.

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Speaker 1: It's not nearly as far away, for example, as Mars

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Speaker 1: or the asteroid belt, so it is a useful sort

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Speaker 1: of like testing ground for figuring out how to build

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Speaker 1: a colony. Yeah, it's got all the cheese you need.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what else you need? No, I'm just kidding,

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Speaker 1: but I guess maybe step us through. What are some

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Speaker 1: of the hard things about building a base on the

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Speaker 1: Moon and living there. One of the hardest things about

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Speaker 1: building a base on the Moon is finding water. Like

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Speaker 1: people need water, plants need water to grow. If you're

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Speaker 1: not going to be constantly shipping water from Earth. Then

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Speaker 1: you have to find a source of it on the Moon.

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Speaker 1: And this plays a big role in the plot. They're

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Speaker 1: like digging around on the Moon to try to find

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Speaker 1: water deposits because there is water in the moon technically, right,

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Speaker 1: there is water on the moon. Yeah, So the Moon

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Speaker 1: is covered mostly by this stuff called regleth, which is

401
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Speaker 1: like the shattered surface of the Moon blown up again

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Speaker 1: and then falling down as dust and then shattered again.

403
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Speaker 1: And it seems kind of dry if you're up there,

404
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Speaker 1: just like kicking in there's dust. There is water in there,

405
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Speaker 1: like there's some water mixed in with the regal lith.

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Speaker 1: It is possible to filter the water out of the

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Speaker 1: surface of the Moon and to get some but it

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Speaker 1: takes a lot, Like it's pretty dry stuff. It's about

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Speaker 1: as wet as like concrete. Well, so if you're thirsty

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Speaker 1: on the Moon, you literally have to suck concrete. But

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Speaker 1: is it in the form of ice or is it

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Speaker 1: like what you see a drip or pool in any way,

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Speaker 1: or is it just kind of like crystals, You know,

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Speaker 1: it's crystals, and there's just not a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: it on average. If you, for example, processed like six

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Speaker 1: tons of surface material on the Moon, you'd get about

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Speaker 1: three kilograms of water, which is about one human's daily

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Speaker 1: dose of water. So that's six tons of material in

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Speaker 1: order to get one person's supply of water for one day.

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Speaker 1: There are some spots in the Moon that we think

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Speaker 1: have more water deposits, like near the poles where it's

422
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Speaker 1: always dark. Are these like tall mountains with crevasses in

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Speaker 1: them where we think like comets may have smashed in

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Speaker 1: and left their ice millions of years ago and it

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Speaker 1: might still be there. So we think there might be

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Speaker 1: like deposits of frozen water on the Moon that you

427
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Speaker 1: can access that are a little richer than just filtering

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Speaker 1: it out of this regal life. Do they think there's

429
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,680
Speaker 1: water under the surface, like I know on Mars they

430
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,680
Speaker 1: think there are maybe underground oceans. There's no evidence for

431
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,440
Speaker 1: vast underground deposits of water on the Moon. Is either

432
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 1: filtering it either regal life, or finding it on the

433
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 1: surface from these commetary deposits sort of near the poles

434
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,120
Speaker 1: where you have these places called craters of eternal darkness.

435
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 1: All right, so then the Moon is b y O

436
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 1: W bringing your own water obviously, But then there's other difficulties, right, Like,

437
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,719
Speaker 1: it's not easy to like grow plants there. Yeah, plants

438
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 1: need nutrients from the soil, and the stuff up there

439
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,239
Speaker 1: is pretty tough. You know. They have grown plants on

440
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 1: the Moon. The Chinese did it last year. They brought

441
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 1: some seeds up and they grew them up there on

442
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 1: the Moon, which is cool on the Moon. Wait, what

443
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 1: did they like they have a base there or just

444
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,719
Speaker 1: on their little lander. They did it just on their

445
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 1: little lander. They did some experiments. Yeah, it's pretty cool,

446
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,360
Speaker 1: and they grew technically, but they didn't like grow very well.

447
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: They didn't exactly flourish. The plants that grow in the

448
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 1: Moon sort of look like plants that are stressed out

449
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: all the time. It's not like a happy place for

450
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 1: plants to grow. So it would be pretty challenging to

451
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 1: have like a farm on the Moon. Yeah. I guess

452
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 1: I would be pretty stressed out if I was a

453
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 1: tiny capsule in the middle of space there. But I

454
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 1: guess Thankfully they didn't grow on the Moon. It grew

455
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,159
Speaker 1: on like a pod in a little spaceship. Is it

456
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: possible to grow things like on the lunar soil? One

457
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,919
Speaker 1: challenge there is the moon has almost no carbon on

458
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: its surface, and carbon is important. You and I need carbon,

459
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 1: plants need carbon. All of life is based on carbon.

460
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,959
Speaker 1: We call it organic chemistry when there is carbon in

461
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 1: the molecule, and the Moon has almost no carbon. Actually, interestingly,

462
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 1: some of the richest sources of carbon on the Moon

463
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: are with the Apollo astronauts left. You know, they're quote

464
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:30,239
Speaker 1: unquote waste. You mean they're poop, Yes, exactly, that's one

465
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 1: of the biggest sources. Like how much how much do

466
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: they poop? Just a normal amount, But there really just

467
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 1: is not very much carbon on the Moon. I guess

468
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 1: that's one way to get carbon up there. But I

469
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 1: guess you also need air to grew plants, right, do

470
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: you have to bring your own air as well? You

471
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 1: need to bring your own error, And you need carbon,

472
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: You need oxygen in order to make the atmosphere that

473
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 1: plants need, You need nitrogen. So a lot of these

474
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 1: things you just can't find on the Moon. So a

475
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: moon base really pretty tough. On top of that, the

476
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 1: Moon has really really terrible weather, Like not only is

477
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: it really really hot in the sun and really really

478
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 1: cold in the darkness, but also there's a huge amount

479
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 1: of radiation, like you'll get cancer really quick on the

480
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,640
Speaker 1: Moon if you don't have a lot of shielding. Right,

481
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 1: it's sort of like being out there in orbit where

482
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 1: you're you don't have the atmosphere that we have here

483
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: on Earth to absorb a lot of that radiation from space. Yeah,

484
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: and the Moon has is really interesting geological history where

485
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 1: we think that there was a lot of lava flow

486
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 1: a while ago before it cooled, and so there are

487
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: these huge lava tubes like where lava once flowed through

488
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: and left these like just tunnels underground. They estimate to

489
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,719
Speaker 1: have billions of cubic meters of space and those are

490
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 1: awesome because they're underground, so they're shielded. Right. If you're

491
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: in one of these lava tubes, you're shielded from the

492
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 1: radiation of space. You're saying that these could be potential

493
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: places to live in m Yeah, So if you're imagining

494
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 1: living on the Moon and having like the best view

495
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: of Earth ever, it's more likely you live on the

496
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: Moon underground in the darkness. Well, it might appeal to

497
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 1: some people people who are already living in basement apartments.

498
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 1: They're like, what exactly, it's not much of an upgrade

499
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: or downgrade for them, but they talk about this a

500
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 1: lot on the show, and they take it really seriously.

501
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: The astronauts think about radiation. There's one important scene where

502
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: there's a solar storm and the astronauts have to scramble

503
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: to get into a lava tube to protect themselves as

504
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: long ranging impacts on one of the astronauts. It's really

505
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,479
Speaker 1: quite interesting. But also in the show, they don't just

506
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 1: have DASA and the USS are. They also have private

507
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: industries up there playing a role in the space race.

508
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: Interesting like the space x is or the Jeff Bezos

509
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 1: of the world are getting on the action here on

510
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: the Moon. They are exactly And there's a company in

511
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 1: this show called Helios, which is probably a stand in for,

512
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: you know, some combination of SpaceX and Blue Origin. And

513
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: they have a really cool idea for these companies, which

514
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: is that they're not just doing space tourism and not

515
00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: just launching satellites, etcetera, etcetera. They're actually getting into business

516
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 1: on the Moon. And in the show they make billions

517
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,120
Speaker 1: and billions of dollars on fusion using fuel that they

518
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: find on the Moon. Interesting, you mean, they're not just

519
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: making money by opening a water stand or selling carpet.

520
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: What do they fuse and what are they finding on

521
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: the Moon and that they're fusing so on the Moon

522
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: in real life, like in our universe, there's this isotope

523
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 1: of helium called helium three. It's two protons and one neutron.

524
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: Usually helium is like helium four two protons and two neutrons.

525
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 1: But helium three, it's something which we have almost none

526
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: of on Earth, and there is some of it on

527
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: the Moon, and scientists like again in our universe, this

528
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 1: is not science fiction. I think that is a really

529
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: good source of fuel for fusion. M No, this is

530
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: on the Moon like mixed in with the soil or

531
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 1: is it floating as an atmosphere of the moon. Does

532
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: the Moon have an atmosphere? The Moon has almost no atmosphere. Actually,

533
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 1: it has an exosphere, has like a very loose collection

534
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: of particles is sort of like float around it and

535
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: get diffused. We have an episode about the atmosphere of

536
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 1: the moon came out recently. But the helium three is

537
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: deposited on the surface of the Moon. Actually, the helium

538
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: three is like produced by the Sun. It's in the

539
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 1: solar wind. It goes everywhere in the solar system. It

540
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: just lands on the surface of the Moon because the

541
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 1: Moon has no atmosphere to like deflect it or break

542
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 1: it up, so sort of like deposited on the surface

543
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: of the Moon by the Sun. And so it's in

544
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: crystal form or what because they I normally think of

545
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: helium is gas right now, this would be in crystal form,

546
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: but it's really tiny amounts, so it might even just

547
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: be like individual particles. We're talking super duper rare, like

548
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 1: four to ten parts per billion on the surface. So

549
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: if you pick up like a billion kilograms of surface,

550
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: it'll have like four to ten ms of helium three.

551
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: So on the show, there's maybe a private company that

552
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 1: wants to go to the Moon and mind this helium

553
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: three to make fusion. But why is this good for fusion?

554
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: Why not just use the hydrogen on Earth? So you

555
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 1: could just use hydrogen on Earth. Helium three is thought

556
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: to be better for fusion because it doesn't release any

557
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: neutrons like normally when you do fusion, you fuse hydrogen

558
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: together particular isotopes tritium and deuterium that have extra neutrons

559
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: because those are easier to fuse, and then you get energy.

560
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: Ip you also get neutrons out, and those neutrons fly

561
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: out and they will irradiate your reactor. So you run

562
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: a fusion reactor for a few years, eventually it becomes

563
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: radioactive itself, and so that's bad. So helium three doesn't

564
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 1: release any extra neutrons because it has fewer neutrons. It

565
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 1: just releases energy in terms of like photons, so it's safer.

566
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: It's a nice alternative to hydrogen burning cool. So the

567
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,479
Speaker 1: show is not just about engineering and math, it's all

568
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: about business. Who is also above business though, I do

569
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: have to say that helium three fusion is a cool idea,

570
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: but I'm not really sure it's a great business idea.

571
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: I mean, we haven't even figured out how to do

572
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: hydrogen fusion, and helium fusion is harder and it's not

573
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: like this a lot of it on the moon. So

574
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: to make this business work, you have to figure out

575
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: hydrogen fusion, then helium fusion, and also figure out a

576
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: way to mind this very rare source of fuel on

577
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: the surface of the Moon. So I guess you're saying

578
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: it's kind of a stretch that there would be a

579
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: company that thinks this is a good business idea. Nobody

580
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: here on Earth is investing in it right now. For example,

581
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: if it was such a great idea and there was

582
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: billions of dollars, Elon Musk would be working on it.

583
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: Or it could be a great opportunity. You could beat

584
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: Elon Musk to it. That's right, listeners, send us your billions, No,

585
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: please don't. All right, Well, another interesting business that you

586
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: can have in space is space tourism, and so let's

587
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: get into that, and also Daniel's interview with one of

588
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: the writers of the show, Sabrina Almida. But first let's

589
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: take another quick break. All right, we're talking about the

590
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: science fiction Universes for All man Kind TV show, and

591
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: you said their business is trying to get to the

592
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: Moon to build bases there, and it's part of it

593
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: also to build you know, theme parks and hotels there.

594
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: They do actually build a hotel in space, a giant

595
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,959
Speaker 1: rotating wheel in space, a space hotel that opens up

596
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: in the beginning of season three weight not on the Moon,

597
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: just in space, not on the Moon. Yeah, in space,

598
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: like a giant rotating wheel and rotating so that you

599
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: can get like gravity from the rotation, from the centrifugal effects. Right,

600
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: because I guess that's cheaper to film because I imagine

601
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: if you're base your whole episode on the Moon, you

602
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: have to show people kind of floating around some right,

603
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: because there's less gravity on the Moon. That's true. Season

604
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: two has a lot of action on the Moon. People

605
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: running on the surface, people chasing each other. There's a

606
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: whole lot of Moon related action in season two. It's

607
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. And they float and they sort

608
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: of float. You know when you run on the Moon,

609
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: you don't exactly float. You also don't run normally, do

610
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: this sort of like floaty leaps from step to step. Right,

611
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: because I saw that movie with Brad Pitt at Astra

612
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: and they have some action scenes on the moon surface

613
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: that are pretty exigning in low gravity, but then they

614
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: show you inside the moon base it's like regular gravity.

615
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: That doesn't make sense. I don't know how they do that.

616
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: I fell asleep halfway through. That movie was so boring.

617
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: All right, So there's a tourism and there's also something

618
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: interesting about the show is how they do technology, like

619
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: spaceship technology. Yes. Season three is like a race to

620
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: Mars and they try all sorts of different strategies, like

621
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: one group is launching from the surface of the Moon.

622
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: Another group is launching from Earth, and yet another one

623
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: is building a ship in orbit and then taking it

624
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: to Mars from there, not starting from the Moon or

625
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: from Earth. And so it's sort of a fun way

626
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: for them to tell us, to teach us about the

627
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: challenges of each of these approaches. And I guess how

628
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: realistic is it. I think it's pretty realistic. You know,

629
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: they really think about the challenges in each case, how

630
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: much more rocket fuel you need to launch from Earth,

631
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: the benefits of launch from the Moon, but also the disadvantages. Right,

632
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: the Moon has certain resources on it, silkn aluminium, magnesium,

633
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: but it doesn't have, for example, what you need to

634
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: manufacture rocket fuel, right, that's water. To make rocket fuel,

635
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: you need to take H two O and separated and

636
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: then use that hydrogen to make like methane or something

637
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: like that. And the Moon just doesn't have carbon or

638
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: hydrogen in vast amounts that you need to make that fuel. Wait, wait, wait,

639
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: what to make rocket fuel? You make it out of water.

640
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: There's lots of different ways to synthesize fuel. One good

641
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: way is to start from water, you know. And when

642
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: they actually do get to Mars, that's what they start doing.

643
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: And they find a water deposit, and then they take

644
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: the water and they split it into H two and

645
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: O two O two for breathing of course, and the

646
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: hydrogen they can then combine with carbon to make like methane,

647
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: which is a good rocket fuel, so you don't have

648
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: to ship it all from Earth. Interesting, I aside, rocket

649
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: fuel was made from fossil fuels, but we can make

650
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: it out of nothing. When don't we use rocket fuel

651
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: in our cars? Then I think it's pretty expensive stuff.

652
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: But yeah, you could synthesize all of these compounds. Is

653
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: just cheaper to dig it up from underground where it's

654
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: been synthesizing itself for millions of years, right, Right, But

655
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: we're going to run out of fossil fuels at some point.

656
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: I guess maybe it's not cost efficient to make rocket

657
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: fuel out of water, right, Like maybe you have to

658
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: put in more energy then you get out of it.

659
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: But you can still make some to use for rockets. Yeah,

660
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: you need another source of power, probably solar power or something,

661
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: in order to break the water into H two and

662
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: O two. Is more about making the fuel, which is

663
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,719
Speaker 1: like a compact energy battery. It's like a chemical battery,

664
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: basically storing energy in this form so that you can

665
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: use it to launch. We do have some propulsion technology

666
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 1: like ion drives, which can just be electric powered, but

667
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: they don't typically have the thrust to launch you from

668
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: a surface. They can gently push you in space, but

669
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: they can't typically launch you from the gravity well of

670
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: a planet. And so that's how they plan to go

671
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: to Mars using nuclear power, and so they have a

672
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: few different approaches. But yeah, they have nuclear powered spaceships

673
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: here which have like ion drives. They take the ener

674
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: degenerated by the nuclear power plant and they turn that

675
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: into ions which they shoot out the back of the ship.

676
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: We have a whole episode about navigating around the Solar

677
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: System and how all these drives work, if you want

678
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: to dig into that a little bit. But it's really

679
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: fun to watch them all racing two Mars and the

680
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,959
Speaker 1: choices they have to make, like you take an orbit

681
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 1: around Mars first before you try to land, or you

682
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: just try to land first. It's really interesting and very exciting.

683
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: Do they make it or is it a Is that

684
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: a spoiler? That's a big spoiler? Man? All right, Well,

685
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: you had a chance to talk to one of the

686
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: writers of the show, Sabrina Almida. Has she been with

687
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: the show from the beginning. She hasn't. They brought her

688
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: on after season two, so she's been writing in this

689
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 1: most recent season. She's part of the writer's room, but

690
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: she also has her name on one of the specific episodes.

691
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: And when I talked to her, they were in the

692
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: middle of working on season four. And she's interesting because

693
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,760
Speaker 1: she has a background in aerospace engineering. She's an actually

694
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: like almost austronaut. Yeah, she has her credentials from M

695
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: I T. And then she crossed over and decided she

696
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: wanted to be a creative type. So that must be

697
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 1: a familiar story to you. Started as an engineer and

698
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: ended up as a creative type. She took a detour

699
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: into making commercials for banks along the way. You'll hear

700
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: her whole story and ask her about it in the interview.

701
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: Maybe she can aspire to one day host her own podcast.

702
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: I mean, that must be the pinnacle of any creative's career.

703
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 1: All right, Well, here is Daniels interview with For All

704
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: Mankind writer Sabrina Almida. Okay, so then it's my great

705
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: pleasure to welcome to the program Sabrina Almida. Thank you

706
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 1: very much for joining us and talking to us about

707
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: your exciting work on for All Mankind. That's why pleasure

708
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: to be here. Thanks for showing the interests and inviting me.

709
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: So first, let's get to know you a little bit.

710
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about your background, how you

711
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 1: got into science fiction writing and getting to work on

712
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: this exciting television project. I always wrote a lot on

713
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,919
Speaker 1: the side. I always thought I'd be following the path

714
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: of math and science. I came to the US from

715
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: Brazil and I didn't know in the English, so the

716
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: only area that I could continue in school and keep

717
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: up it was math. So I was huge like math doork,

718
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: and then I became the science doork and I go

719
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: to the physics as fun events in high school for fun.

720
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: I went to my tea to pursue aerospace engineering, did

721
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 1: a few years of studying in it, and during that

722
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: time I got to do a lot of cool things.

723
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,720
Speaker 1: I got to help with some research on satellite anomaly data.

724
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: I got to work summers at JPL do internships and

725
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: uh that progressed into designing command sequences for the Cassini spacecraft,

726
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: and I got a hand in changing some of the

727
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: flight rules. But all this time I was also taking

728
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: classes classes like French film classics and Hong Kong cinema

729
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: and suffice such a say, by the time by by

730
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: the time I graduated, not with an engineering degree, I

731
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 1: applied to film school and got to see and that's

732
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: where I home down that the love was really in

733
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: the writing portion. And uh. From there, I started a

734
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: family unintentionally with my on again, off again boyfriend. And

735
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: upon graduating, I, you know, I try to stay in

736
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: the industry, but I was just helping maybe mixed people's films,

737
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 1: doing second camera and credited on reality projects on weekends.

738
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: And that became a gig of uh, doing corporate videos

739
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: for banks, which isn't the reason I went to film school,

740
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: but that was, you know, a much steadier gig. And

741
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: it took I did that. I was just doing that

742
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: for years and years, and it took my brother getting

743
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: diagnosed with brain cancer or terminal prognosis, and that's when

744
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: I realized, oh my god, life is so short, I'm

745
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: wasting mine. And then I finally started writing every day.

746
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: And it took took some years for me to get

747
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 1: wrapped and break into the industry. Wow. Well, congratulations, that's

748
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: quite a story. I love hearing when people's hobbies become

749
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 1: their susitions, become their life's work, and then they get

750
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: to actually do it for their day job. That's so inspirational.

751
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: So for all of our science fiction writer guests, we

752
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: ask them three questions to help us orient where they

753
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,919
Speaker 1: are in the sort of science fiction universe. So here's

754
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 1: a question about Star Trek philosophy. Do you think that

755
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: the transporters in Star Trek kill you and clone you

756
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: or actually transport your atoms somewhere else? Oh wow, that's

757
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: such a great question. I think I wouldn't use the

758
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: word kill, but I don't think they're physically moving your atom.

759
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: So yes, I think you're being reformulated. When you want

760
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: to talk about consciousness or so or what happens as

761
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: the matters being use for the things in one end

762
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,399
Speaker 1: and reformulated on the other. I don't know that i'd

763
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: say you're killed, but I think you're reformulated. Okay, So

764
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: would you be willing to step into a transporter be

765
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: torn apart and three D printed on the other side,

766
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: if there's enough data, if enough people before me did it,

767
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: if the ray of lack of success is law enough

768
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: yet and depends where I want to go, all right?

769
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: Second question is what technology that you see in science

770
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: fiction would you most like to see become reality. I

771
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: think anything that lets us if we could travel faster

772
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: than light. I think because part of me is inclined

773
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 1: to solve Earth found problems, but we don't need to

774
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,919
Speaker 1: do that. If we can travel faster than light, then

775
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: I definitely think there are the worlds that we could

776
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: live in a habitate if we not. If when you know,

777
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: we finished just one off, whether it's us or just Sun,

778
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: so then what is your personal answer to the Fermi paradox?

779
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 1: If the universe and the galaxy are old and there

780
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: are rocky planets everywhere, why have an aliens made themselves

781
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: known so far? Well? I think they're They're a few possibilities.

782
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 1: One is they have we just aren't able to receive

783
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,839
Speaker 1: the information, right, They've done it in a way that

784
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 1: we don't perceive it, and they're like why aren't they answering?

785
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 1: That's one version of it, And one is we're just

786
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 1: not that interesting rights that It's like I don't know,

787
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 1: like why haven't we tried to communicate with bacteria? Like

788
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 1: we're just worth the time. And then another one is

789
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 1: just simply how spread outs. I don't know, you could?

790
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: You know? Basically we just haven't. Uh. If you think

791
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: about the vastness of the investment, there's just nobody from

792
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 1: near bode. I don't presume we're the most intelligent life form.

793
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: I don't presume. I'm more likely to assume that where

794
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: the Laura them. Alright, So then about for all mankind?

795
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 1: I love the show because it puts us in this

796
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 1: alternative reality where the space races again an important part

797
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 1: of our national identity, and governments are spending boatloads of

798
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 1: money to make breakthrough in space technology. So what's exciting

799
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: to you about these themes in this world? Why is

800
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: it fun to write in that universe? I really like

801
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 1: the idea of coming together for something bigger than yourself.

802
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: But it's also something epic, right, So there there's there's

803
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: the glory of the achievement for the individual players involved.

804
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: There's ego and striving, and these are all people on

805
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 1: top of their game to be able to be involved

806
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: in these endeavors. So there's the what the individual ego wants.

807
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: But you can't make things of that magnitude happen unless

808
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: you you collaborate. So you take all these A lot

809
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: of these people are Taipei, are really competitive or really

810
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: into the thing they're into, but then they have to

811
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:36,879
Speaker 1: compromise or work together to communally make something happen. And

812
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 1: then I just think the steaks are huge, and I

813
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: love when you put huge stories to steaks. So those

814
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,399
Speaker 1: are some of what I like, you know, And it's

815
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 1: just it's just such a shame the amount of funding

816
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 1: and the lack of priority of how review uh space exploration,

817
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,919
Speaker 1: it's a travesty. Well, I'm inspired by what you say

818
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: about people coming together to solve a problem. But in

819
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: the show, there's also a competitive aspect, right, there's national

820
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: pride and there's national security, and here in our universe,

821
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: science often appeals to national pride. Like in my field

822
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: particle physics, we say we have to discover the Higgs

823
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: Boson before the Europeans, though they certainly beat us to it.

824
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 1: Sometimes though it leads to disasters like projects getting canceled

825
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 1: halfway through. What do you think the role is for

826
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: nationalism in science? Are the characters in the show just

827
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: like exploiting that to get their science done? Or do

828
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: you think it's sincere on their part, and how do

829
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 1: you think we should handle that in our world. I

830
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: am not a nationalist personally, I'm a humanist. So I

831
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 1: think the way we do things in the name of

832
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 1: nationalism and the way we treat borders, you know, a

833
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: hundred a thousand years from now, it will be viewed

834
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: a lot differently, much like a post slavery society. There's

835
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: still slavery in the world, but in much minute amounts

836
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: a post slavery society view slavery. I was like, oh

837
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: my god, that's horrible. I can't believe they did that.

838
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,720
Speaker 1: I think hopefully in the like a few hundred years,

839
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 1: nationalism will be viewed the same way. Maybe because I'm

840
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: an immigrant, I'm not a very nationalist kind of person. However,

841
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: I think our characters, for some of them, it's very

842
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: it's very sincere, for example, for Ed Baldwin. But for

843
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 1: other characters like Margot Madison, it is about the science.

844
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: It's not about the science for the glory of the

845
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 1: United States. And I think we hit upon that in

846
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:27,280
Speaker 1: some of the way that she's collaborating with Sergey, thinking

847
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,479
Speaker 1: while we're helping advanced science, you know she's not thanking.

848
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: Oh let me be train my country. So it's it's

849
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 1: really about what can I do for the science. And

850
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: if a way to drum up funding is to point

851
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 1: out the Riberry, great, but for her, I think it's

852
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 1: science first. So speaking of science first, many of the

853
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 1: plot lines revolve around scientific obstacles. You know, they have

854
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: to solve some specific technical problem, and you guys aren't

855
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: just like fuzzing over the details and you know, dot

856
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 1: dot dot, they make it over there. So tell us

857
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 1: a little bit about the writing process. Do you guys

858
00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: come up with story arcs and then figure out this

859
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 1: science to make it work, or do you start with

860
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: the science and the challenges presented by it and then

861
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 1: think about how your characters will navigate it. What's the

862
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: writing process like? So the first several weeks, it depends

863
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,280
Speaker 1: how many weeks, but each season is a little different.

864
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,240
Speaker 1: But we'll spend time in the beginning of the season

865
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 1: during something we called blue skying, where no idea is

866
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: the wrong idea, and we'll talk about possible arcs for

867
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:29,720
Speaker 1: the characters and directions we want to go. And during

868
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: that time it's not about the science. However, if we

869
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 1: hit like big areas we think we might wanna go into.

870
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 1: We have a researcher, we have technical advisor, and we'll,

871
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: you know, we'll just make sure that we're vaguely in

872
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: a space that's okay, and then we'll figure out the

873
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: details closer to breaking down that episode. If we think

874
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a landslide or Mars Clake. We just

875
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 1: want to know if we can being that, you know,

876
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 1: being that without figuring out the details until we get

877
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 1: to the episode. So big moves we run by early,

878
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: but then the details they happen more when we are

879
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: into that specific episode. And you have a real scientific background,

880
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 1: as we just heard about, so I imagine that in

881
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 1: the writer's room you might be like pushing for the

882
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: story to be as accurate as possible. Is there a

883
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,839
Speaker 1: whole spectrum of voices there where people are like, oh,

884
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: don't worry so much about the science, and other people

885
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,839
Speaker 1: like gritting their teeth if the details aren't right, How

886
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,280
Speaker 1: do you guys resolve that kind of stuff? Everybody cares

887
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: to some extent about the science, and we understand that

888
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 1: that's what this is one of the things that makes

889
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: us show special. The amount of worry that each particular

890
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: writer has varies. You know, some people are like, whatever,

891
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: I'm strouble figure it out, and other people like, I

892
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: don't know if I can you know, I don't know

893
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: if we can do that. So it definitely does vary,

894
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: and you know, like, okay, how people talk to each

895
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 1: other about it Occasionally, like somebody will draw something on

896
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: a post it and put them from their zoom screen

897
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: to try to like compate or explain something. But again,

898
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 1: when it really becomes an issue, our show runners are

899
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: not relying on the writers. We had two people that

900
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: were very pivotal to us getting the science right and

901
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:25,879
Speaker 1: in the room every day. We had Erica Hatfa with us.

902
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 1: She was our researcher and uh she's a former scientist

903
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 1: with a PhD. And she would look up information at

904
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:37,280
Speaker 1: the moment live as we we were talking and pitching

905
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 1: and working and also send us a great information at

906
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: the end of every day and every few weeks every

907
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:50,439
Speaker 1: few months, we'd have um former astronaut Garett Riceman come

908
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: in and either talk to us about the directions we

909
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 1: were going the story or actually review every single episode

910
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,839
Speaker 1: and change get made also based on his expertise. Well

911
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 1: I'm just glad to hear that science plays such a

912
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 1: big role. You can definitely see it in the show.

913
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,240
Speaker 1: How the science like changes the path of the story,

914
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 1: and it's often a story about conflict between people, but

915
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 1: often it's a story about conflict between you know, people

916
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 1: and nature. I also want to ask you about the

917
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 1: sort of all history aspect of it from a gender

918
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 1: point of view. There's a moment a show when the

919
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: U s s are surprised everybody by putting a woman

920
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 1: on the moon, which sort of like supercharges equal rights

921
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: in the US. How does it feel to you to

922
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 1: write about a world where women play a more prominent

923
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: role in science and in politics. Do you see this

924
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 1: as a way to shine a light on continuing gender

925
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 1: issues in science and like in your industry here? Yeah, no,

926
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 1: I think it's absolutely fantastic that we have female characters

927
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: that are playing more than the love interests of another

928
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 1: character and are doing more than just motivating male characters storylines.

929
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: I joined in season three, so that's one of the

930
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: main reasons I wanted to join. I was like, oh, wow, like,

931
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 1: I love how the show treats women and it's a

932
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: very grounded show. So as soon as we say, okay,

933
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 1: the Ego Rights Amendment past, we're saying that means a

934
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 1: lot of things are different. So it's not weird if

935
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 1: we have so many women. It's realistic to have so

936
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: many women in such prominent roles because how they Ego

937
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,240
Speaker 1: Rights Amendment pass probably, you know, it would have spend

938
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: things up. So I think it's still grounded because we're

939
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 1: it's based on a different history. I mean, women are

940
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: in a bunch of prominent positions in science and politics,

941
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: just at lower numbers than they are in our show.

942
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 1: So one of my favorite episodes of the show is

943
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:45,760
Speaker 1: one that you specifically have your name on as the writer.

944
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 1: I know there's a whole process there with the writer's room,

945
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,280
Speaker 1: but I wanted to hear more about writing this episode.

946
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 1: It's episode three oh five, when they arrive on Mars.

947
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 1: There's an attempt to land, but they can't make it

948
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: because of bad visibility, and somebody else lands and they

949
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: have this exciting scene about race to be the first

950
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 1: person to step onto the soil of Mars. Can you

951
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 1: tell us about what it was like to write that episode?

952
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 1: But with the challenges for you as a writer balancing

953
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 1: the science and the drama. One of the challenges was

954
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: how do we make timing realistic. We were talking about

955
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: you know, you're approaching Mars, and then you do a

956
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 1: burn to get into an orbit around Mars, and then

957
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 1: you do a de orbit burn, and then you do

958
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 1: a landing burn, and just figuring out the timing of

959
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: when you're making the decisions. You know, if you make

960
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 1: the decision to go around once more and somebody doesn't,

961
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 1: there's a big gap there until you come back around again.

962
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,839
Speaker 1: And we wanted to keep that excitement of not knowing

963
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: who's going to make it so exactly when to pull

964
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: the plug on the decision making, also when do you

965
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 1: find out what and how? At one point we had

966
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 1: talked about breaking a communication antenna. At one point we

967
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 1: had parachutes, I know for the size of sojourn are

968
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: one uh with real day technology wouldn't have peara shutes,

969
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: but just to give us something dramatic that can go wrong.

970
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:14,360
Speaker 1: So there were those talks of like do we break something,

971
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: do they have to change something mid landing? But there

972
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 1: was enough tension just between who's gonna land first, and

973
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: we didn't feel like we had to break something in

974
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 1: the process of something does break after they land, but

975
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: that we didn't have to break something in the process

976
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: of the landing. Also, originally it was written as a

977
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:36,959
Speaker 1: vertical landing for um so Journ or one, but that

978
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 1: would have presented some challenges for production for actually shooting it,

979
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: so we changed the landing. But it was it was

980
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: that feel like that, but it got changed very cool.

981
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 1: So I also pulled some of our listeners for questions

982
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,320
Speaker 1: to ask you. Here's a couple from them. First question

983
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 1: was do they have the whole four season story are

984
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 1: plotted out or is this sort of organic that it

985
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 1: develops from season to season. So much before I ever

986
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 1: joined the show, there was a plan. There was a

987
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 1: plan for more than the four seasons that have been announced.

988
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: So you know, uh, when writers pitch and sell a show,

989
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 1: they have a vision not just for the first season

990
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: but for the entirety of the show. So there was

991
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: definitely a vision for the whole show. In terms of

992
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:28,439
Speaker 1: how much we are adhering to that, it's changing as

993
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,240
Speaker 1: you actually hit a season. You still keep the north

994
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 1: star of where you hope the show ends eventually someday,

995
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 1: but how you're getting their changes as you're learning and

996
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:43,399
Speaker 1: discovering about your characters awesome. And then the last question

997
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 1: from listeners was, folks wanted to understand better how it

998
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:51,800
Speaker 1: was possible for the Russians the Americans to not notice

999
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 1: North Korea launching and landing on Mars. How do you

1000
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:57,799
Speaker 1: guys figured that out from a story point of view.

1001
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 1: So our idea was that it was supposed to be

1002
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 1: an unman probe, a very large unman probe that crashed.

1003
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 1: So the surprise is that it's not that they had

1004
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,760
Speaker 1: that launch. They knew something was launched for North Korea

1005
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 1: to Mars. The surprise is that, oh my god, this

1006
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,720
Speaker 1: wasn't a man. So they saw it when I left Earth,

1007
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: they knew, you know, it was just one of the

1008
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:27,800
Speaker 1: failed North Korean launches to Mars. Nobody thought it was man.

1009
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: North Korea didn't make a big deal of it because

1010
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: it wasn't successful. All right, excellent, Well, thanks very much.

1011
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 1: We're answering all of my questions, and the listeners can

1012
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 1: follow your work on this show. You have other projects

1013
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 1: that you'd like to tell us about that we might

1014
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: be able to check out your writing and other venues,

1015
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 1: novels or television or other shows. I got to work

1016
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: on the first season of Steal Team that's currently on

1017
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 1: Paramount Plus, that was originally on CBS, and I had

1018
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 1: the pleasure of working on the first room that got

1019
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:01,760
Speaker 1: together for Ander on Disney Plus, as happens very often

1020
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:05,440
Speaker 1: in TV. Later they brought in another crew and ultimately

1021
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 1: became Tony Gilroy's room, and I got to work on

1022
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 1: Section thirty one that so hasn't made it to air,

1023
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 1: which is a Star Trek show, and hopefully that will

1024
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 1: make it to air someday. But again, different crews have

1025
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: been brought in in the development process of that one,

1026
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,320
Speaker 1: and now I have the pleasure of being on for

1027
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: all mankind. On the side, I'm working on a future

1028
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,399
Speaker 1: right now early days. We'll see if when it makes

1029
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: it out to the world. And as I always I

1030
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: also developed parliaments, but again we'll see if when it

1031
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 1: makes it into the world. Well, congrats on all of

1032
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 1: your success, and we're inspired by the gambles that you've taken,

1033
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 1: and good luck with all those projects. All right. Pretty interesting.

1034
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: She seems to be really curious about this idea of

1035
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 1: space exploration. Yeah, you can hear in her voice she's

1036
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: enthusiastic about this alternative universe. I think a lot of

1037
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: us who saw the space race early on and the

1038
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 1: excitement of that are kind of disappointed and how that

1039
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: played out that we don't have more energy and more

1040
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: investment and more research into space technology. So it's fun

1041
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 1: to imagine that universe where the politics sort of forced

1042
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 1: it to happen, sort of made the country continue to

1043
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 1: invest in this way, and what was possible. You know,

1044
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:16,800
Speaker 1: in that alternative universe, they're already on the surface of

1045
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 1: the Mars in the nineties. You just spoiled the show, Daniel.

1046
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: You weren't gonna get that, just did. I mean, they

1047
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: are chempting at least to land on Mars in the nineties.

1048
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 1: But maybe I wonder if the problem is that a

1049
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: lot of people think, like, hey, space expression sounds great,

1050
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: but I don't want to do it. That's certainly my scenario.

1051
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 1: But I don't think we're lacking for astronauts. There's a

1052
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:39,839
Speaker 1: lot of people on that list who want to go

1053
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 1: out into space. I think the bigger challenges people were

1054
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 1: wondering about what our priorities should be. Should we spend

1055
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 1: money on space or should we try to solve problems

1056
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: down here on Earth? And one way to think about

1057
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:52,240
Speaker 1: it is whether or not it really is a choice

1058
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 1: between those two things, whether or not it's possible to

1059
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: do both, right, Like, maybe you can cure cancer and

1060
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: just watch space exploration on TV on a show leg

1061
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 1: for All Mine, or maybe you can cure cancer in space.

1062
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 1: Right there you go, that's what I'm talking about. Maybe

1063
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,320
Speaker 1: we should host a podcast in space. Well, technically we

1064
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:13,399
Speaker 1: are in space, Daniel. I don't know if you've heard,

1065
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 1: but the Earth is in space, so then I've gone

1066
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 1: to space already. You're saying we're all aliens. Yeah, well no,

1067
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Speaker 1: he's still on Earth, but so you're not an alien.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, technically all humankind are astronauts. Were all curling

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00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 1: through the galaxy and through the Cosmos and this little

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00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 1: spaceship called I'm so proud of our bravery as we

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00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 1: sit on our couches. Yeah, I'm not sure. It took

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Speaker 1: a lot of bravery just to get out of the

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00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 1: womb and walk around and look for snacks. Voluntary or not,

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00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 1: we are astronauts. All right. We'll check out the show

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00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,319
Speaker 1: for All Mankind lay now streaming on Apple TV. Three

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00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: seasons are out and they're working on season four. All right,

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00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 1: check it out and dream of going to space or

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00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: dream of other people going to space, whichever is easier.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, you next time, Thanks for listening,

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00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 1: and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe is

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00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast from

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00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H