Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Floomberg sound On
Speaker 1: heard this morning. I tested Posit coup. He is in
Speaker 1: good spirits, he is feeling well. Anything that affects the
Speaker 1: president has an impact in our country. Floomberg sound On Politics,
Speaker 1: Policy and perspective from DC's top name. You know what
Speaker 1: happens if he does this and he raises oil prices
Speaker 1: in the US. I think they just sort of looked
Speaker 1: into the toolkit and said, what do we got that
Speaker 1: we can throw out here today? And this was really
Speaker 1: a weak attempt at trying to feed the beat. Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. The President
Speaker 1: of the United States has COVID. Welcome to the fastest
Speaker 1: hour in politics, as Washington reels on news of the
Speaker 1: positive tests who the close contacts might be while following
Speaker 1: Joe Biden's travel to the Middle East and Massachusetts in
Speaker 1: the recent days. We've been gathering sound and information all day,
Speaker 1: ing you the very latest on this story, and we'll
Speaker 1: discuss ahead with Chris Meekins, healthcare policy analyst Managing director
Speaker 1: at Raymond James. The January six Committee goes primetime again,
Speaker 1: but is tonight the finale will examine the legal case
Speaker 1: being built against Donald Trump and his lieutenants and what
Speaker 1: we might expect this evening with Michael Zelden, former federal prosecutor,
Speaker 1: former special counsel to Robert Muller at the Department of Justice.
Speaker 1: Analysis from the panel Today. Bloomberg Politics contributor and Democratic
Speaker 1: analyst Jennie Schanzana was with us, along with Republican strategist
Speaker 1: Doug High. It's the second time we've seen a president
Speaker 1: get COVID. And while almost everything about this pandemic COVID
Speaker 1: nineteen has changed since we watched Donald Trump go through this,
Speaker 1: one thing remains the same. And that's the video to
Speaker 1: reassure the world. In this case, President Biden, standing on
Speaker 1: the balcony overlooking the south lawn of the White House,
Speaker 1: suns out hot day today, is wearing a shirt and
Speaker 1: a blazer, and here's what he said. Hey, folks, guess
Speaker 1: you heard this morning night tested positor of it, but
Speaker 1: I've been double vaccinated double boost. Symptoms are mild and
Speaker 1: uh and I really appreciate your increating the concerns, but
Speaker 1: I'm doing well and get a lot of work done,
Speaker 1: going to continue to get it done and uh and
Speaker 1: in the meantime, thanks for your concern and keep the faith.
Speaker 1: It's going to be okay. Do you have it? Of course,
Speaker 1: remembering Donald Trump kicked out his own video message couple
Speaker 1: of him around at that time that he was going
Speaker 1: through this as well. Well, I'll tell you one thing.
Speaker 1: Will you get COVID, A lot of work gets done,
Speaker 1: it test positive. We're working here. The White House kicked
Speaker 1: out a tweet with a picture of the President heart
Speaker 1: at work, smiling behind the desk in the White House
Speaker 1: residence where he is now isolated. So a lot of
Speaker 1: questions over this beyond the work, and that's why they
Speaker 1: sent Dr she shot of the podium the White House
Speaker 1: briefing room. Today. He's the White House COVID Response Coordinator
Speaker 1: and suddenly a very important member of the administration. One
Speaker 1: of the first questions asked was do we know which
Speaker 1: variant Joe Biden has. Here's the doctor. Thevirus has been
Speaker 1: sent off for sequencing. It takes usually about a week
Speaker 1: for that sequencing to come back. That's under normal circumstances.
Speaker 1: He's the president, the sequencing will get prioritized, so we
Speaker 1: should have an answer sooner than that. But you can't
Speaker 1: just tell from a regular test what kind of variant.
Speaker 1: So the sequencing results will be back at some point
Speaker 1: less than a week from now, Okay, less than a week,
Speaker 1: we'll know what he's got. Be a five for Maicron.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Of course. The other thing we all
Speaker 1: asked was you probably said the same thing because you
Speaker 1: follow this stuff. Where did he get it? He's been
Speaker 1: to Israel, Saudi Arabia and beautiful Summerset, mass all in
Speaker 1: the last week, even touched down in Warwick, Rhode Island.
Speaker 1: We're typically good things happen on his way to the
Speaker 1: event yesterday. So where do we know where the doctor jaques?
Speaker 1: Where was he infected? I don't think we know. Um,
Speaker 1: I certainly don't know. If you if you have any thoughts, Look,
Speaker 1: I don't think that that matters, right, I think what
Speaker 1: matters is we prepared for this moment. Okay, hold on, Karine.
Speaker 1: John Pierre jumps in the White House as press secretary.
Speaker 1: We don't think that matters. It matters a lot as
Speaker 1: the White House gathers potentially hundreds of close contacts, and
Speaker 1: it's probably smart to find out where the leader of
Speaker 1: the free world got COVID now, So that was one comment,
Speaker 1: and she did have to get back to that a
Speaker 1: little bit later. People say, really this doesn't matter. But
Speaker 1: fascinating messaging today from this White House a year and
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks after President Biden said that the
Speaker 1: US was close to declaring independence from COVID. Listen to
Speaker 1: the messaging from the Press secretary at the White House
Speaker 1: today because basically, you're all gonna get it is now
Speaker 1: what the administration is saying. Here's Karine Jean Pierre. We
Speaker 1: knew this was going to happen, as doctor Jah said, uh,
Speaker 1: you know when he was when he joined me at
Speaker 1: the briefing in the briefing room not too long ago,
Speaker 1: he said, this is this is uh, you know, everyone
Speaker 1: was at some point everyone's going to get COVID. What
Speaker 1: is important is to make sure that you have you
Speaker 1: get the treatment that is that we have provided for folks. Okay,
Speaker 1: we knew this was going to happen. Everyone at some
Speaker 1: point is going to get COVID. Remarkable messaging and an
Speaker 1: evolution from the administration that was elected in part to
Speaker 1: beat COVID. Now realizing of course that the president is
Speaker 1: probably gonna you know, being the residents and he's got
Speaker 1: mild symptoms, fully vaccinated, double boosted. But of course, at
Speaker 1: one point people thought that would keep them from getting COVID,
Speaker 1: and now it's a manner of managing symptoms. We knew
Speaker 1: this was going to happen. We never were told that
Speaker 1: the president was definitely going to get COVID. They were
Speaker 1: going out of their way to keep him from it.
Speaker 1: Everyone at some point is going to get COVID. We'll
Speaker 1: bring Chris in on this now. Chris Meekins is healthcare
Speaker 1: policy analyst managing director at Raymond James. He does. He's
Speaker 1: with us now, correct, Chris, Thanks for being here because
Speaker 1: we all have a lot of questions. I just wonder
Speaker 1: how concerned you are with the messaging today from the
Speaker 1: West wing. Yeah, it's definitely a reversal in messaging, No
Speaker 1: question about dangerous. I think I don't think it's dangerous,
Speaker 1: but I think it's going to When you hear the
Speaker 1: West wing say, oh, everyone's going to get COVID, it
Speaker 1: kind of contradicts the whole desire of everyone has to
Speaker 1: get boosted. Everyone has to get boosted. Well, that's right,
Speaker 1: and I say that, you know, is it dangerous because
Speaker 1: it's gonna as people are gonna say, well, forget it.
Speaker 1: Then forget the mask, forget the vaccine. We're all getting it.
Speaker 1: Like Donald Trump said, ride it like a cowboy, Chris Well,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to encourage people to write it like
Speaker 1: a cowboy. What I don't say is that, um, I
Speaker 1: think that the part of the message that got muddled
Speaker 1: today was the fact that someone who is approaching eight
Speaker 1: as the president is, would normally be in a much
Speaker 1: higher risk hadding up, been boosted twice and now taking
Speaker 1: the treatment that the government successfully made investments in. So
Speaker 1: I think, you know, at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: we don't want people to be hospitalized, We don't want
Speaker 1: people to die. But there does seem to be stepping
Speaker 1: on the message with regard to how likely people were
Speaker 1: to get it and what it means for those that
Speaker 1: do have it. And we are seeing hospitalizations increase, certainly
Speaker 1: cases in a lot of cities as b A five
Speaker 1: becomes a reality. Here, what do we have hospitalizations passing
Speaker 1: forty that's a little bit of a trip back in
Speaker 1: time here, cases over a hundred and twenty thousand per day.
Speaker 1: Does this present an opportunity for the White House to
Speaker 1: get serious about COVID again. Chris, I'm asking you that
Speaker 1: after ten billion dollars in funding that was supposed to
Speaker 1: be passed a couple of months ago to replenish therapies
Speaker 1: and vaccines never saw the light of day. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean House Democrat rank and file members walked away from
Speaker 1: fifteen billion earlier this year of additional funding, and them
Speaker 1: Republicans decided to hold up ten billion because there was
Speaker 1: a fight over Title forty two immigration policy. I think
Speaker 1: it does put additional pressure on the White House to
Speaker 1: encourage Senator Mansion if they're able to get a reconciliation
Speaker 1: built on, to throw some money for COVID into it.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing about COVID funding. The US government doesn't
Speaker 1: pay for flu vaccines. The US government doesn't pay for
Speaker 1: polio vaccines. Right now, we have polio first case again,
Speaker 1: that's the New York first time in more than a
Speaker 1: decade we have that. So there's a system in place
Speaker 1: with the US health system to pay for vaccines, pay
Speaker 1: for treatments. We just need to transition over to that
Speaker 1: and then they can focus their resources on areas where
Speaker 1: they can make a big difference. What worries need is
Speaker 1: that they haven't been making investments the next generation vaccines
Speaker 1: and they've been a little late to the game with
Speaker 1: regard to targeting specific variants. There's no reason we shouldn't
Speaker 1: have had an omicron or be a one of to
Speaker 1: be a strains. You know, four or five variant vaccines
Speaker 1: already available to us. Additionally, if you want to try
Speaker 1: to prevent transmission, you really need to move coorted nasal
Speaker 1: vaccine rather than Chris I if they if investments had
Speaker 1: continue to be made in the next generation technologies we
Speaker 1: look at. So what you're saying is we need funding,
Speaker 1: but not to be buying vaccines for people to be
Speaker 1: going into research and development. What I'm saying is we
Speaker 1: need funding for research and development for next generations and
Speaker 1: then allow the system we have in the US, which
Speaker 1: already covers a wide range of vaccines. So how do
Speaker 1: you make that transition, Well, you just tell everyone this
Speaker 1: is what it's going to be. In insurers, Hey, you're
Speaker 1: going to cover this piece. Now, this is where we're going.
Speaker 1: And you tell the companies you're going to make sure
Speaker 1: the US DAWs enough supplies and if you don't't, well
Speaker 1: we're the U S Government. That's not going to make
Speaker 1: us very happy. And see what the pharmaceutical industry does.
Speaker 1: I guarantee you Visor is not going to say, well,
Speaker 1: if you don't buy three billion dollars from US in
Speaker 1: a bulk purchase anymore, which made sense at the beginning,
Speaker 1: that we're not going to supply the US market. That
Speaker 1: probably would be a bad PR day for the suspect.
Speaker 1: You're right to provide what we need. Here. We're spending
Speaker 1: time with Chris Meekins from Raymond James on this day
Speaker 1: we learned that Joe Biden got COVID. Here. Uh, the
Speaker 1: other part of that statement from the White House, we
Speaker 1: talked about everyone at some point is going to get COVID.
Speaker 1: Apparently that's the new mantra. We knew this was going
Speaker 1: to happen, Chris. Of course they did, right, but they
Speaker 1: never said that. They always said that they were going
Speaker 1: out of their way to test the president. They were
Speaker 1: a little bit cagy about his testing regiment. They were
Speaker 1: a little cagy about close contacts. Uh. And now it's well,
Speaker 1: we always knew this was going to happen. Is that
Speaker 1: something you believe that's very different than the messaging we
Speaker 1: saw last July before the delta way. That's very different
Speaker 1: than we've seen messaging with regard to vaccines and the
Speaker 1: need for people to get boosters. I think for those
Speaker 1: of us that are fortunate at this point and not
Speaker 1: have gotten COVID to our knowledge, I think that the
Speaker 1: idea that there's no hope is a bit problematic. And
Speaker 1: so I think what we're seeing is real movement and
Speaker 1: messaging that's trying to make it seem like, oh, this
Speaker 1: isn't a big deal that the leader of the free
Speaker 1: world has COVID, when reality is it matters, and that's
Speaker 1: okay that it matters. It's something a lot of America
Speaker 1: and have to deal with us. Hopefully it you know it.
Speaker 1: It helps to underscore the story that these vaccines keep
Speaker 1: you alive and out of the hospital, because we seem
Speaker 1: to lose track of that at some point. Chris, I'm
Speaker 1: glad you could talk to us. Chris Meekins is healthcare
Speaker 1: policy analyst managing director at Raymond James. Helping us dissect
Speaker 1: what we learned today from the White House. It did
Speaker 1: sound like a little bit of that living well it
Speaker 1: was at living at the Podium, and that's why we
Speaker 1: want to turn this to the panel. Next, Jenny Schanzana
Speaker 1: was with US Democratic analysts Bloomberg Politics contributor along with
Speaker 1: Doug High Today Republican strategist. There with us for the hour.
Speaker 1: We'll check traffic and markets for you on the way
Speaker 1: on the fastest hour in politics. I'm Joe Matthew and
Speaker 1: this is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg. You sound on
Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. The program brought to
Speaker 1: you by the letters B and A and the number five.
Speaker 1: As I read on the terminal B A five has
Speaker 1: an increased ability to evade immunity from prior infections and immunizations.
Speaker 1: So did this just make the argument more difficult for
Speaker 1: people to get a vaccine or did this just make
Speaker 1: it easier because you see a near eighty year old man,
Speaker 1: Well he's working. If you heard how busy he is.
Speaker 1: He's in the residents working, which is a lot better
Speaker 1: than being in the hospital. Then again, an increased ability
Speaker 1: to evade immunity from prior infections and immunizations means you're
Speaker 1: gonna get it anyway, or as Karine John Pierre said today,
Speaker 1: everyone at some point is going to get COVID. We
Speaker 1: assemble the panel, deeply curious to hear what Genie has
Speaker 1: to think about A Genie Chanzano. Bloomberg Politics contributor and
Speaker 1: Democratic analyst Doug High is here as well today. Always
Speaker 1: a pleasure to have Doug with US Republican strategist and
Speaker 1: former deputy chief of staff to Eric Canter, former communications
Speaker 1: director at the r n C. A Genie, the whole
Speaker 1: world change since I spoke with you last. Not only
Speaker 1: did the President get COVID, but we're told everyone, at
Speaker 1: some point one is going to get it. I've had
Speaker 1: one turn. I've been waiting for b A five. To
Speaker 1: be honest with you, I'm back and forth to New
Speaker 1: York fairly often. But what kind of a message is
Speaker 1: that to send to people, you know, who have who
Speaker 1: have folks who are vulnerable, who have older parents, grandparents,
Speaker 1: and children who have immuno deficiencies. Really, everyone is going
Speaker 1: to get it now? Yeah, it wasn't quite the message.
Speaker 1: They stumbled again on this messaging. And it was a
Speaker 1: bit ironic because the one hand they're saying, we knew
Speaker 1: this was going to happen, Everybody's going to get it,
Speaker 1: including the president, and yet their messaging for some reason,
Speaker 1: wasn't prepared for this inevitability, and you know, that's sort
Speaker 1: of the irony here. There is a way that they
Speaker 1: can handle this, and I think importantly they can handle
Speaker 1: it by saying very clearly that the vaccination keeps you
Speaker 1: out of the hospital often and then a later and
Speaker 1: it keeps your symptoms less severe. So everybody should get it.
Speaker 1: Congress should get put the funding together that we've been
Speaker 1: asking for. The President is doing fine, he's working. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's a way to do this to be transparent, but
Speaker 1: you know, to simply go out and say everybody is
Speaker 1: going to get it, so your turn is next is
Speaker 1: certainly not the message for a White House to be sending.
Speaker 1: We played the message from President Biden that he tweeted today,
Speaker 1: remembering when when Donald Trump got COVID, he also did
Speaker 1: the same thing. Let's just go back in time for
Speaker 1: a second and listen to former president then president Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: So I just want to tell you that I'm starting
Speaker 1: to feel good. Uh, you don't know over the next
Speaker 1: period of a few days, I guess that's the real test.
Speaker 1: So we'll be seeing what happens over those next next
Speaker 1: couple of days. Not all that different really, maybe a
Speaker 1: little bit more dour than we we saw. And her
Speaker 1: today from President Biden, who gave a smile, is said,
Speaker 1: Everything's gonna be all right. Uh, Doug Hi used to
Speaker 1: run a communication shop. What would you have done differently today? Well,
Speaker 1: I'm the first thing that you do is preparations, as
Speaker 1: Genie said, you anticipate, you know, these eventualities and then
Speaker 1: the questions that are going to come from them, you know,
Speaker 1: And this starts not on January nineteenth of last year.
Speaker 1: It starts the day the day after the election. What
Speaker 1: do we do when the president elect? Where the presidents
Speaker 1: and the vice president and on down the line, And
Speaker 1: so I'm very surprised to see them stumble, especially given
Speaker 1: that Trump isn't the only world leader that we've seen,
Speaker 1: you know, get this. Boris Johnson obviously got it and
Speaker 1: was also quite up. And Johnson, and like Trump, was
Speaker 1: a massive booster public booster of the vaccine. And you know,
Speaker 1: this is coming at a time, Joe, when we're hearing
Speaker 1: about a lot of changes potentially in the White House
Speaker 1: communications personnel, communications director leading Live Allen, who's at the
Speaker 1: State Department's talk about getting that role Kendra Barcroft Landy,
Speaker 1: who worked for Biden the Vice President's office on Capitol
Speaker 1: Hill and the Senator as well. For Doug, we're having
Speaker 1: a little trouble with your line. I apologize. I want
Speaker 1: to hear what you're saying, but I think it might
Speaker 1: be better to to reconnect or or fix whatever here
Speaker 1: in their genie. Uh remembering back to Donald Trump, did
Speaker 1: this White House learn a lesson from watching another president
Speaker 1: go through this? You know, I'm not sure that they
Speaker 1: learned the lesson in the communications from a communications standpoint
Speaker 1: that they should have. Um. You know, when I first
Speaker 1: heard this news, of course you're you're deeply concerned about
Speaker 1: the president and the first Lady, but really, you know,
Speaker 1: happy to hear that he seems to be doing well.
Speaker 1: I thought the video was well done. They're portraying strength.
Speaker 1: But you know, one of the things that that came
Speaker 1: to my mind is how lucky are we When Donald
Speaker 1: Trump got this. He was hospitalized, he was close, we've
Speaker 1: heard to being put on a ventilator. We didn't have
Speaker 1: the vaccinations and the boosters for somebody Biden and Trump's age,
Speaker 1: or all of our ages to help us through this.
Speaker 1: So we're so lucky we have those today. And that's
Speaker 1: something that I thought I would hear from the White House.
Speaker 1: Look at how far we've come. We may not be,
Speaker 1: you know, have reached the independence they declared last year, certainly,
Speaker 1: but you've got you know, people who are coming down
Speaker 1: with this and the number of people we lost. You know,
Speaker 1: when this first started. People need to remember when Donald
Speaker 1: Trump got it. To remember when he jumped in the
Speaker 1: in the the suv and had the Secret Service drive.
Speaker 1: We were afraid everybody in the vehicle was going to die.
Speaker 1: We just didn't know anything then and there were no
Speaker 1: vaccines like we have now. Doug High is back with us. Doug,
Speaker 1: if you're on Capitol Hill, if you're a Democrat looking
Speaker 1: for COVID funding, is this an opportunity? I think it
Speaker 1: is an opportunity to, you know, restress the message of
Speaker 1: positive message of s Gene said, look how far we've come,
Speaker 1: and this is why we need to go farther. And
Speaker 1: this isn't just COVID. This potentially is also a message
Speaker 1: that House and Senate leadership can use on monkeypox as well.
Speaker 1: What does he do tomorrow? Doug means he you go
Speaker 1: out there and do uh push ups on the north lawn,
Speaker 1: take a run. What do you do to for people
Speaker 1: to realize that he's going to be all right? Well,
Speaker 1: we'll certainly see him, and we'll see him not just
Speaker 1: in in pre pre shot videos, but also we'll see
Speaker 1: him in person. And you know that may be riding
Speaker 1: a bike that maybe walking outside, but not a bike.
Speaker 1: We tried that already. I'm kidding, of course, do it again,
Speaker 1: can and careful with the pedals this time. Uh, Jennie
Speaker 1: Chanzano our panel. They'll be back in just a bit.
Speaker 1: As we turned to the January six committee, you know,
Speaker 1: this was supposed to be the grand finale tonight either way,
Speaker 1: We're not sure about that, but it will be in
Speaker 1: prime time. This is Bloomberg Hearing Number eight begins at eight.
Speaker 1: Unclear exactly how long the hearing tonight will go. This
Speaker 1: was originally supposed to be the grand finale, right, we're
Speaker 1: gonna start and finish in prime time. People sitting down
Speaker 1: thinking they're watching their shows, they're gonna see Benny Thompson
Speaker 1: via zoom because he's got COVID as well, by the way,
Speaker 1: and Liz Cheney and company will of course be holding forth. Uh.
Speaker 1: Interesting tonight. We were connecting the dots in the last hearing,
Speaker 1: at least an attempt to between the White House and
Speaker 1: the groups that attacked the capital tonight, filling in the
Speaker 1: blanks as Adam Kinzinger says on what the President was doing,
Speaker 1: he says, they know. They'll have a tick talk and
Speaker 1: we'll be hearing from a former deputy National Security Advisor,
Speaker 1: Matt Pottenew will be testifying along with Sarah Matthews, a
Speaker 1: former deputy Press secretary. They were both in the West
Speaker 1: Wing that day and resigned based on what they witnesses.
Speaker 1: What they witnessed. But I want to recall as well
Speaker 1: what happened at the end of the last hearing. And
Speaker 1: for some people, you know, it's like the post credit scene.
Speaker 1: Some people were gone by then, but Liz Cheney had
Speaker 1: quite a statement to make about witness tampering. Listen again,
Speaker 1: after our last hearing, President Trump tried to call a
Speaker 1: witness in our investigation, a witness you have not yet
Speaker 1: seen in these hearings. That person declined to answer or
Speaker 1: respond to President Trump's call and instead alerted their lawyer
Speaker 1: to the call. They're lawyer alerted us. And this committee
Speaker 1: has supplied that information to the Department of Justice. Was
Speaker 1: Cheney just going to leave that there? So what will
Speaker 1: we learn tonight? Let's bring in Michael's Eldon, former federal prosecutor,
Speaker 1: former special counsel to Robert Mueller while at the Department
Speaker 1: of Justice. It's great to have you back with us, Michael.
Speaker 1: Are we going to be in the realm of building
Speaker 1: a legal case tonight? Is this about tying up loose ends?
Speaker 1: What's your expectation. The objective of tonight's hearing is the
Speaker 1: final of the seventh part conspiracy plan that the committee
Speaker 1: laid out on day one. This seventh part of their
Speaker 1: plan is, as they said it, as the violence was underway,
Speaker 1: President Trump ignored multiple police for assistance and failed to
Speaker 1: take immediate action to stop the violence and instructive supporters
Speaker 1: to leave the capital. So I think we're gonna get
Speaker 1: a lot of evidence about the political or moral depravity
Speaker 1: of that inaction and try to and the community is
Speaker 1: going to try to have this in the sense of
Speaker 1: a closing statement to say he summoned all these people,
Speaker 1: all part of the Big Law. His pressure campaign failed,
Speaker 1: and this was the last act of a desperate man
Speaker 1: trying to cling to power, and that they I think
Speaker 1: will argue violated the criminal laws in the United States.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that they get to that last point.
Speaker 1: That's the that's the tough part though, right Michael. I mean,
Speaker 1: what what does it matter? And I realized that part
Speaker 1: of the purpose here is to set the record straight
Speaker 1: for for the sake of history, for the sake of
Speaker 1: it not happening again. But from a legal standpoint, does
Speaker 1: it matter what Donald Trump did once he went back
Speaker 1: to the West Wing? Well, does matter in a legal
Speaker 1: sense if a case was going to be brought that
Speaker 1: President Trump was part of a conspiracy to obstructive official
Speaker 1: proceeding and or defraud the United States. Leave aside the
Speaker 1: sedition part of it, but just the defrauding United States
Speaker 1: through the perpetration of the Big Law, the pressure campaign
Speaker 1: on Trump on Pence rather than the others. Then his
Speaker 1: state of mind would be probative of whether or not
Speaker 1: he intended to carry out a criminal conspiracy or not.
Speaker 1: So I think yes, it is relevant to that. It's
Speaker 1: corroberative of his state of mind with respect to the
Speaker 1: official proceeding, obstruction of justice, and the defrauding United States.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't get us standing alone to seditious conspiracy. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: so away we go on those grounds, Michael. We don't
Speaker 1: know when we're going to get a final report. It
Speaker 1: sounds like the committee says this was originally going to
Speaker 1: be the finale, but well, there could be more hearings
Speaker 1: because more evidence and more witnesses continue to come forward. Uh,
Speaker 1: this may in fact not be done before a potential
Speaker 1: change over in power. If Republicans run the House, they
Speaker 1: may in fact have the opportunity to control the outcome
Speaker 1: of a final report, So they're going to do an
Speaker 1: interim report. I guess I'm just wondering if this is
Speaker 1: ever going to be if if certainly Republicans take the House, Michael,
Speaker 1: if this is ever going to be really concluded. Knowing
Speaker 1: that this this could have been the last word tonight,
Speaker 1: but the committee is allowing for more time, right, because
Speaker 1: more evidence keeps coming in. As you just suggested in
Speaker 1: the tease to this conversation, there may be a witness
Speaker 1: tampering investigation that now has just surfaced by the Trump
Speaker 1: call to a perspective witness. And we know from the
Speaker 1: reporting in the newspaper that after Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony. More
Speaker 1: people have found a spine and have come forward to
Speaker 1: say what they know, So you know, you can't blame
Speaker 1: the committee if people who were stone walling them all
Speaker 1: of a sudden decide that you don't want it's time
Speaker 1: for me to speak there that I know, and so
Speaker 1: it goes on. But of course, from a criminal law standpoint,
Speaker 1: none of this really matters. The only one that makes
Speaker 1: that determination as the Attorney General. Do you expect to
Speaker 1: hear more on witness tamperings? And how is important? How
Speaker 1: important is it for them to follow up on that
Speaker 1: having opened that canon worms just two weeks ago. I
Speaker 1: think it's important for them to follow up on that
Speaker 1: because it's a standalone criminal offense to tamper with a
Speaker 1: witnesses testimony, and it doesn't require you know, this big
Speaker 1: lie and defrauding the United States sort of evidence it
Speaker 1: could be in and other self sufficient to bring for
Speaker 1: a Merrick Garland to bring a charge this committee, that's
Speaker 1: going to be the focus. I don't think that's going
Speaker 1: to be the the because it's going to be on
Speaker 1: his inaction slash cheerleading of the event, and that when
Speaker 1: pressed by his advisers to call it off. He was
Speaker 1: reluctant to do so and only did so when they said, look,
Speaker 1: if you don't do something, your cabinet may invoke the
Speaker 1: amendment and where to have you removed. There'll be a
Speaker 1: lot more where that came from. Starting at eight o'clock,
Speaker 1: I'm guessing wonderful have new images, new sounds, certainly new
Speaker 1: stories from the two witnesses. Michael Zelden, thank you, former
Speaker 1: federal prosecutor with us on the fastest hour in politics.
Speaker 1: Will reassemble the panel next. Genie and Doug are back in.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg. You sound on
Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. The headline on the
Speaker 1: terminal jan six hearing to make case of Trump as
Speaker 1: derelict in duty. Expect to hear that phrase more than
Speaker 1: once tonight. It all comes down to what he was
Speaker 1: doing during that eighties seven minutes in which the former
Speaker 1: president waited before calling on his supporters to leave the capitol.
Speaker 1: To that end, great reporting from Billy House on the terminal.
Speaker 1: If you want to get ready for this tonight starts
Speaker 1: at eight o'clock again Washington time. Billy says, look for
Speaker 1: the committee to emphasize how even when Trump did issue
Speaker 1: a video to supporters to leave the capital, he repeated
Speaker 1: his fraudulent claim that the election was stolen. Remember go home,
Speaker 1: we love you. You're very special there. I actually saw
Speaker 1: an image earlier from the Rose Garden, kind of behind
Speaker 1: the scenes, if you will, and I suspect we'll be
Speaker 1: seeing more of those tonight. Let's reassemble the panel. Doug
Speaker 1: High is with US Republican strategist along with Bloomberg Politics
Speaker 1: contributor Democratic analyst Genie Schanz. No, uh, Doug, what's going
Speaker 1: to be the most effective use of time tonight? I
Speaker 1: have to admit, you know, hearing a droning opening statement
Speaker 1: from Benny Thompson via zoom in his COVID quarantine is
Speaker 1: probably not the kind of television most people are looking
Speaker 1: for at eight o'clock. How do they make a count? Yeah?
Speaker 1: You know, that's one of the problems that we always
Speaker 1: have with congressional hearings is members like hearing themselves, and
Speaker 1: so questions are often speeches, and speeches are are even longer. Um,
Speaker 1: what what's most effective is testimony directly from witnesses and
Speaker 1: whatever video they have that we haven't seen, and the
Speaker 1: combination of the two is what will be most effective
Speaker 1: and we should always be mindful of and it's why
Speaker 1: we've had so many of these hearings now is two things.
Speaker 1: One the committee knows more than we do. And to
Speaker 1: the committee doesn't know everything. They're learning things sometimes in
Speaker 1: almost real time as we are, Genie. From a legal standpoint,
Speaker 1: will there be more added to the case or is
Speaker 1: this about telling the story? About wrapping up the story?
Speaker 1: And and and I'm sure more wild versions of what happened,
Speaker 1: you know, I think Representative Lauria really laid it out well.
Speaker 1: You know, she's a navy veteran. She talked about the
Speaker 1: fact can you imagine, you know, you have a ship's
Speaker 1: captain and the ship is burning, and he is there
Speaker 1: watching it happen and reveling in it. And and that's
Speaker 1: really what they're going to focus on in this one
Speaker 1: and eighty seven minute gap of what he was doing.
Speaker 1: And and I thought that it was so well said
Speaker 1: by by your previous guest, by Michael, when he talked
Speaker 1: about the political and the moral depravity of that. Now
Speaker 1: to your question, whether that rises to the level of
Speaker 1: illegality is another question. And there's several possibilities from conspiracy
Speaker 1: to obstruction, to seditious conspiratorcy, to fraud and now to
Speaker 1: witness tampering. So there's a lot available there. And I
Speaker 1: thought Attorney General Merrick Garland yesterday when he came out
Speaker 1: with a very strong statement that they are taking this
Speaker 1: the d o J very seriously and looking into it.
Speaker 1: So I think tonight it's less about, in my mind
Speaker 1: at least, the legality and more about the fact that
Speaker 1: you have the President of the United States doing nothing
Speaker 1: as people are dying and being abused and the capital
Speaker 1: is under attack. Doug, is the purpose of this committee
Speaker 1: to build a legal case or set the record straight
Speaker 1: for history? Are you gonna tell me it's both? It
Speaker 1: is both. And look, let's be clear, there's politics involved
Speaker 1: here as well, and I don't say that in a
Speaker 1: negative sense per se. And one of the things that
Speaker 1: we're seeing in this is that you're seeing more and
Speaker 1: more of a Republicans trying to inch away from Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: Independent voters are seeing this and they are devastated by it.
Speaker 1: They don't like they didn't like it before and now
Speaker 1: they're being reminded of it. And just yesterday in the
Speaker 1: Capitol Hill Club. Mike Pence was excuse me, in the Capital.
Speaker 1: I believe Mike Pence was meeting with a group of
Speaker 1: House Republicans. I don't think that would have happened three
Speaker 1: months ago, given Trump's book proclivity to attack um Mike Pence.
Speaker 1: But with the things we've seen over the past few weeks,
Speaker 1: it makes it more palatable for those Republicans to do so.
Speaker 1: Doug High is with us and Jeanne Schanzano or panel.
Speaker 1: I want to ask you both about your travel plans.
Speaker 1: But you know it's because everything changes here if you
Speaker 1: just ask Nancy Pelosi. This idea of Pelosi, the Speaker
Speaker 1: of the House, traveling to Taiwan on what could be
Speaker 1: the very day or just following a meeting between President
Speaker 1: Biden and President she has people all worked up here
Speaker 1: in the Capital. If you're not aware of this story
Speaker 1: and it is on the terminal, Uh, it took on
Speaker 1: another of another form today as we heard from Nancy Pelosi.
Speaker 1: But I want to just back up for a second.
Speaker 1: Listen to President Biden as he got back from Massachusetts yesterday. Uh,
Speaker 1: not knowing of course that he had COVID at that
Speaker 1: point when he was asked about Nancy Pelosi traveling to Taiwan. Here,
Speaker 1: he is, the military thinks it's not a good idea
Speaker 1: right now, but uh, I don't know what the status
Speaker 1: of it is. The military thinks it's not a good okay.
Speaker 1: So and this, by the way, was within hours of
Speaker 1: the of the headline breaking on his potential meeting here
Speaker 1: in the next ten days, they said with President she
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi asked about it today, two very different answers
Speaker 1: from the same speaker. Here was the initial response. Discussed
Speaker 1: my travel plan. It's it's a national it's a security issue. Uh.
Speaker 1: You never even hear me say if I'm going to
Speaker 1: London because it is a security issue, and so I
Speaker 1: won't be discussing that now, Okay, nothing to see. By
Speaker 1: the way, I love the London. That's like, was that
Speaker 1: right out of Tom King's hand with even when I
Speaker 1: I don't even let people know when I go to London,
Speaker 1: like for the weekend. But then she came back around,
Speaker 1: by the way she says he's not talking about it,
Speaker 1: she did talk about it. Here's Nancy Pelosi. None of
Speaker 1: us has ever said for independence when it comes to Taiwan.
Speaker 1: That's up to Taiwan to decide. But if what you're
Speaker 1: the inference to draw on from your comment is that
Speaker 1: my going there is problematic, I think what the President
Speaker 1: was saying is the maybe the military was afraid our
Speaker 1: plan would get shot down or something like that by
Speaker 1: the Chinese. I don't know exactly. I didn't see it.
Speaker 1: I didn't hear it. You're telling me, and I've heard
Speaker 1: it anecdotally, but I haven't heard it from the president. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is well, this is the day for hot takes
Speaker 1: at the podium or podia in this case, Genie, both
Speaker 1: ends of Pennsylvania Avenue. They thought that my plane was
Speaker 1: going to be shot down. Is that what the speaker
Speaker 1: should be saying today, Joe Matthew, Now I know why
Speaker 1: you don't share your travel plans with me. This has
Speaker 1: been a revelation, so thank you God. You know, just
Speaker 1: very very strange. You know, I wasn't sure why. You know,
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi first came out and said she hadn't spoke
Speaker 1: with the president. She might have tried to do that
Speaker 1: before she made the statement. And then this idea that
Speaker 1: you know, this is equivalent to going to you know, London,
Speaker 1: of all places, is laughable. And then, of course you
Speaker 1: know the idea that this you know, the military concerned
Speaker 1: about her plane being shot down. I think the reality
Speaker 1: is is that the speaker likely should not be going
Speaker 1: over there at this point. It is a massive, massive headache,
Speaker 1: I think was the word used on Bloomberg Terminal. For
Speaker 1: the president and the president of her party at a
Speaker 1: time when they are facing huge crises at home, she
Speaker 1: maybe needs to stay home. And I understand her desire
Speaker 1: to make this trip and sort of repeat New Gingrich's trip,
Speaker 1: but but at this point for her own party, it
Speaker 1: doesn't make much sense. She she's planning to go in August,
Speaker 1: had postponed it from April apparently, Doug and I don't
Speaker 1: know if you're gonna end up in London this weekend
Speaker 1: per chance, But should she end up in Taiwan or
Speaker 1: is it I mean, does it look like we're cow
Speaker 1: towing if she cancels that trip, Well, you don't want
Speaker 1: to know what fights I have looked that I'm looking
Speaker 1: up on Google flights over the past hour, by the way,
Speaker 1: but look to it highlights the fact that, um, there's
Speaker 1: often a difference between Republicans and Democrats. We know that
Speaker 1: but there's so often a difference in in Capitol Hill
Speaker 1: and the White House, regardless of what party that is.
Speaker 1: They have different priorities and they act on things differently,
Speaker 1: just given the nature of the executive and the legislature.
Speaker 1: So obviously they haven't coordinated here very obviously on some
Speaker 1: level they may have to do so, given that this
Speaker 1: has now become um an issue. You were deputy chief
Speaker 1: of staff to Eric Canter, you know what it's like
Speaker 1: to be in in the the senior ranks in the
Speaker 1: United States House. How much coordination should there be between
Speaker 1: Pelosi's office and the president. They're both talking like they
Speaker 1: haven't spoken with each other. They're just just happen to
Speaker 1: be hearing things and weighing in on it. Well, given
Speaker 1: the nature of everything that's happening right now globally, you
Speaker 1: would think there will be some coordination between the Speaker's
Speaker 1: office in the White House. Regardless of that, there will
Speaker 1: be coordination with the military, because it's you know, the
Speaker 1: air force that flies you over, it's air force personnel.
Speaker 1: Who are you know, staffing those flights and so forth,
Speaker 1: So they'll have to coordinate in the congressional delegation sense,
Speaker 1: the what's called a codell is what that trip would be.
Speaker 1: But there's obviously a lot internationally and geopolitically happening, and
Speaker 1: that's why I'm surprised there haven't been those conversations yet.
Speaker 1: Maybe a planet for six months from now to save face, Genie,
Speaker 1: is that a good move? You know that there's going
Speaker 1: to be a meeting certainly by then between the two presidents,
Speaker 1: and maybe things have calmed down a bit. You know,
Speaker 1: I think that's a possibility. I think she's got to
Speaker 1: take seriously what the military obviously and the President are saying.
Speaker 1: And you know, if she was visiting England, she may
Speaker 1: not need to discuss that with the military and the president.
Speaker 1: But it's Taiwan and it is a hotbed for the
Speaker 1: United States and this administration. The Speaker of the House,
Speaker 1: of the party of the President should get that, you know,
Speaker 1: lined up with the White House before going public on it. Well,
Speaker 1: it's going to be something to see this meeting come together.
Speaker 1: It's interesting how the stakes have changed since the last one.
Speaker 1: President Biden's had a couple of calls now a couple
Speaker 1: of video calls with President She and we haven't seen
Speaker 1: this much concern leading up to them, Doug, is that
Speaker 1: because of Ukraine or something else? Well? Absolutely, and there's
Speaker 1: certainly a sense that what would happen globally if China
Speaker 1: had gone first instead of Russia in the Ukraine or
Speaker 1: if they go now, and if they were to go now,
Speaker 1: we are in a very much more dangerous um political,
Speaker 1: geopolitical position than than we are now globally, and we're
Speaker 1: already in a pretty bad place. I think Nancy Pelosi
Speaker 1: had a clear from the White House when she went
Speaker 1: to Kiev. Genie, that's that's a bit different. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: and I would think that that that would have been obviously,
Speaker 1: as Doug was saying, it's approved by the military because
Speaker 1: they have to get her over there, and certainly the
Speaker 1: White House. And I think a big question with this
Speaker 1: call is what is it say, for instance, about tariffs,
Speaker 1: just one of the many issues on Biden's agenda, and
Speaker 1: we still haven't gotten a decision on that, many people
Speaker 1: waiting for that decision, and of course many others. Just
Speaker 1: interesting to think that it's cool for the Speaker of
Speaker 1: the House to touch down in the middle of a
Speaker 1: war zone, do a photo op, have some meetings, but
Speaker 1: don't you fly to Taiwan, where there's no war underway
Speaker 1: right now. Doug High, great to have you back, and
Speaker 1: of course Jeanie Chantino Bloomberg Politics contributors, great conversation. As always,
Speaker 1: I look forward to these as we try to make
Speaker 1: sense of the madness on the fastest hour in politics.
Speaker 1: We'll have a full recap of The Ring tomorrow on
Speaker 1: sound On. We're watching so you don't have to. I'm
Speaker 1: Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg m