1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: Atlanta is where preachers and pastors push the culture. The 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: preachers possessed the voice that moved the crowd, set the tone, 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: and spread the word to the people. My mom and 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: them didn't play. If you got caught talking a while 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 1: the preacher was preaching, you got popped back. Then grown 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 1: folks took the church dead serious. I was always told 7 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: that the church was about fellowship. So it doesn't matter 8 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: if it's at home in the pews, on your laptop 9 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: of phone, as long as you're getting it in. As 10 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: they say, the church ain't the building, it's the people. 11 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 2: Looks like they were right a big rule, and Atlanta. 12 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: Is where preachers were their original influences. 13 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 3: In twenty twenty two, Pastor Jamal Bryant sat down for 14 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 3: an interview with the cool sor War podcast hosted by 15 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 3: Rashaan Ali. Who Are You Today? 16 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 4: I am wonderfully blessed just to be in the room 17 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 4: with him. 18 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 3: What By then, he'd been leading New Birth Missionary Baptist 19 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 3: Church in Atlanta for four years. Jamal stepped into the 20 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 3: poolpit once filled by Bishop Eddie l Long, a controversial 21 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 3: but the loved figure whose death left behind not just 22 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 3: grief but a messy legacy of scandal, allegations of sexual 23 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 3: coercion and financial mismanagement. Brian inherited not just a church, 24 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 3: but a rebuilding project, and it came with the weight 25 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 3: of a question, how do you restore influence after the 26 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 3: fall of a megachurch empire? At first, the interview played 27 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 3: out like many others, where Sean asked him the standard 28 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 3: questions about his upbringing and his path to ministry. When 29 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 3: did did you know that God said this was okay? 30 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 3: But then the conversation shifted to the present, to how 31 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 3: Briant was adapting to the times and how he was 32 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 3: trying to reach people in an area when church attended 33 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 3: was in steep decline. 34 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 5: For me to tell sixteen year olds to be sell 35 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 5: a bit is one thing. A thirty seven year old 36 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 5: who's used to getting some I need a different kind 37 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 5: of gospel. 38 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 3: And then came the moment when Rashan asked him directly, how. 39 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 5: Are you making sure that more people think like this 40 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 5: or at least had this type of conversation so that 41 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 5: they can try to change their thought process. Because I'm 42 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 5: mindful that I'm not after Christians, I'm as the people 43 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 5: who don't go to church. 44 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 3: I'm looking for people that smell like weed, Pastor. 45 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 6: Jamal Bryant says he's thinking about launching a cannabis business 46 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 6: at his church. 47 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 3: The clip went viral. I'm looking for people that smell 48 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 3: like weeds. It literally got passed around like a blunt. 49 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 3: So we need to clear the air and set the 50 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 3: record straight. This morning, you read Briant was forced to 51 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 3: clarify his statements on a gospel morning show. 52 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 4: I said I want people to smell like smoke, smell 53 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 4: like weed. 54 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 2: I never said I want to smoke with him. 55 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 5: I never said that the church is going to be 56 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 5: selling blunts in the Bible bookstore. 57 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 3: But by then the sound bite had a life of 58 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 3: its own, and the comment sections went wild, and I got. 59 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 2: A word for Jamaal. 60 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 4: The devil comes to kill, still and destroyer. 61 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 2: I guess he's descoring your mind. 62 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 3: Brian wasn't just a preacher anymore. He was content. He 63 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 3: was part of a new attention economy. Preachers have always 64 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,399 Speaker 3: used the tools of their time to command influence. Eddie 65 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 3: Long built a megachurch empire out of television billboards and 66 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 3: stadium conferences. Jamal Bryant is rebranding the poor pit for 67 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 3: an era of social media, and today there's a whole 68 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 3: new ecosystem online where TikTok, pastors, instagram sermons, and even 69 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 3: gospel trap tracks reach audiences far beyond the church walls. 70 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 3: And it's all happening in Atlanta, an entertainment city and 71 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 3: a rap city where the preacher's voice has always been 72 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 3: more than a sernon. It's been a cultural force. So 73 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,839 Speaker 3: where exactly are we going with this? I'll tell you 74 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 3: We're going to church. We'll tell the story of Atlanta's 75 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 3: black preachers to see's original influencers and how their power 76 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 3: has shifted from the pullpit to the timeline. I'm Maury's 77 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 3: Girland and this is episode five of Atlanta Is so 78 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 3: ushers close the doors. I said, close the doors. Before 79 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 3: there were megachurch empires, before pastors went viral online, Atlanta 80 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 3: already had preachers who knew how to command a crime. 81 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 7: You don't have to know Einstein's spirit are relativity to serve. 82 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 7: You don't have to know the second theory of thermodynamics 83 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 7: in physics to say. 84 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 3: Think about doctor Martin Luther King Junior at Ebenezer Baptist Church, 85 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 3: his sermons weren't confined to the sanctuary. They became and 86 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 3: rallying cries for the entire civil rights movement with all. 87 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 7: About children, duckmen and white man. 88 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 3: Shoes and ten pounds. The black church was also the 89 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 3: hub of information, organization, and influence in Black Atlanta. Preachers 90 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 3: of King's era use the tools available to them, like 91 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 3: the choir, the printed church bulletin, and the radio stations 92 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 3: to mobilize marches, registered voters, and shape public opinion. The 93 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 3: cadence of a Sunday message could ripple through the city 94 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 3: all week long. You could think about it as Atlanta's 95 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 3: first influencer economy. Fast forward to today, where the pastor 96 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 3: you follow often says as much about your identity as 97 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 3: the neighborhood you live in or the team that you 98 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 3: root for. If your pastor wears suits and gators, you 99 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 3: better believe folks in the pews addressing that way too. 100 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 3: If he's young, the congregation usually is too. If he 101 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 3: names an enemy from the pool pit, whether it be 102 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 3: high blood pressure, homelessness, or rap music, the congregation is 103 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 3: ready to fight that battle right alongside them. Because in Atlanta, 104 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 3: the man with the microphone doesn't just set the move 105 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 3: he shakes the more accomplice of the people in the room. 106 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 3: On one end of the spectrum, you have Kreflow Dollar, 107 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 3: who runs his church Broad Changers Church like a Fortune 108 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 3: five hundred company, preaching prosperity faith, and a guy who 109 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 3: might just bless you with a ben sifty tithes right. 110 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 3: I call my son, I said, listen, go find that 111 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 3: Rose Ross. 112 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 8: He said, Hi. I said, go find it. I don't 113 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 8: care what you gotta do. Score around the nation and 114 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 8: every state you got to, but you find that Rose Ross. 115 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 8: That was God's love that he was trying to show 116 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 8: on me. 117 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 3: If you want politics and prayers in the same breath, 118 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 3: you have Reverend Senator okause, I mean Senator Reverend No, actually, 119 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 3: I think it's the honorable Reverend Doctor Senator Rafael Warnock, 120 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 3: who is literally preaching in the shadow of Doctor King 121 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 3: at Ebenezer Baptist Church. 122 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 9: Shit, stop there, you gotta take this God's full of 123 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 9: love and justice to the ends of the earth. 124 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 3: Warnock sermons don't just focus on manifesting a mansion. They 125 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 3: focus on justice, liberation, and what it means to live 126 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 3: your faith out loud. He's the living embodiment of how 127 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 3: a preacher in Atlanta can build a platform way beyond 128 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 3: their church walls. 129 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 9: I often say to folks that I'm not a senator 130 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 9: who used to be a pastor. I'm a pastor who 131 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 9: serves in the Senate. 132 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 3: Before he won a special Senate election in twenty twenty, 133 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 3: Warnock had never held public office, but his reputation in 134 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 3: the pulpit was strong enough to not only get him elected, 135 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 3: but also re elected two years later. 136 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 9: Every Sunday morning, I preach the Gospel, and then come 137 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 9: Monday morning, I board the plane make my way to Washington, DC. 138 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 9: And in the legislation that I put forward as a 139 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 9: United States Senator, that's about making the Word become flesh 140 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 9: and live among us through good public policy. 141 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 3: The Senate floor is just another platform for the preacher, 142 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 3: another place to deliver a message. And in Atlanta, the 143 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 3: opportunities for pastors to transcend their pull pits are end 144 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 3: of this because this city is thick with churches. To 145 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 3: help me make sense of it all, I called up 146 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 3: Sheila Pool. She used to cover religion full time for 147 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 3: the Atlanta Journal Constitution. 148 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 10: Atlanta is one of the most diverse cities in the Southeast. 149 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 10: It's right there in the Bible Belt where religion is big, 150 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 10: regardless of whether you're black or white. 151 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 3: If the South is the Bible Belt, then Atlanta is 152 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 3: definitely the Gucci bucal that goes with every outfit. While 153 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 3: I may use Black church as a blanket statement, you 154 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 3: really can't look at it as a monolith. You have 155 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 3: different denominations, agendas, and sizes at play here. You may 156 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 3: have storefronts. If you prefer a small church that reminds 157 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 3: you of Sundays with Grandma and still has a fish. 158 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 2: Fry, you can find one. 159 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 10: You may have churches that meet in people's homes. 160 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 3: If you want to go to church at someone's house 161 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 3: where they truly believe Matthew eighteen twenty when it says 162 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 3: where two or three are gathered, you can find that too. 163 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 10: You may have a small building, you may have a 164 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 10: huge campus. 165 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 3: If you're looking for a megachurch that can host a 166 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 3: large conference, you can find one. It just veries. 167 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 10: It's really hard to say, but I think as the 168 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 10: population grows and people look where they want to have 169 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 10: a church home, it's not one size fits all. 170 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 3: Atlanta is a place where black folks have come from 171 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 3: all over the country, a city where black success feels possible, 172 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 3: and that spirit shows up everywhere, starting with the church, 173 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 3: and that same holy spirit flows through our second biggest 174 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,959 Speaker 3: export and perhaps our most influential medium, hip hop. 175 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 10: You can't talk about hip hop and not talk about 176 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 10: the church, because even with hip hop, there's a faith 177 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 10: influence in that. 178 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 11: I have learned that, you know, going to church is 179 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 11: really like a mental hospital for you, like on some 180 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 11: like just where you can kind. 181 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 3: Of reset, like so many Atlanta artists. Gospel rapper one 182 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 3: k Few got his start in the church. He says 183 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 3: his mom had him there nearly every day of the week. 184 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 11: We was in there Monday through Monday. You feel what 185 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 11: I'm saying. So that's really pretty much all I knew. 186 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 3: But outside the sanctuary, he was still a kid from 187 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 3: Atlanta making mistakes being outside and. 188 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 11: I always knew better, but I ain't always you know, 189 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 11: did the right thing and do better. So I just 190 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 11: had to bump my head a few times. 191 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 3: Still, the church is where his rap career really began. 192 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 11: One youth night, the pastor let us get up there. 193 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 11: We did this song called church Bus Swag. It was 194 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 11: a remix of that Soldier Boy Pretty Buss swag and 195 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 11: we just kind of did that and I kind of 196 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 11: fell in love from that day. 197 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 3: For one k Few is a rapper signed to popular 198 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 3: Christian rapper La Craze Reach Records based here in Atlanta. 199 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 3: He calls his music hold Gospel, a blend of scripture 200 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 3: in street life that feels right at home in the 201 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 3: city where the church and the trapper neighbors. Then there's 202 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 3: Xavier Dodson aka Zaytoven. 203 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 6: I've been going to church all my life, but when 204 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 6: I went to new Birth, it was probably the best 205 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 6: service I was. 206 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 3: Ever went to. Before he became one of traps most 207 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 3: influential producers, working with artists like Usher, Future and Gucci Man, 208 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:36,199 Speaker 3: Zatoven was playing the organ every Sunday at his local church. 209 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 3: Even as his beat started shaping Atlanta sound, he kept 210 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 3: balancing the sanctuary and the studio. One of his early 211 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 3: collaborators was a gospel rapper who performed at New Births. 212 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 6: He was so good that before Bishop Long would preach, 213 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 6: he would call my brother up to rap. He went 214 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 6: up to rap with Zatoven's beats, and I used to 215 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 6: be like, that's crazy, Higgel, I'm listening to my music 216 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 6: in this church. My brother on the stage rapping at 217 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 6: this megachurch. I'm talking about three Sundays out the month. 218 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 6: This is something special. I see why it's thirty thousand 219 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 6: people in here. Zatoven might be exaggerating. New Birth never 220 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 6: held thirty thousand people at once. The main auditorium holes 221 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 6: close to around seven thousand people for multiple services. I 222 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 6: know because I used to be in those pews. 223 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 3: The church in the city has always been a magnet 224 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 3: for ambition, a place where faced me to hustle and 225 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 3: where the polepit can launch movements as easily as it 226 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 3: shapes morals. That same energy fueled the rise of Atlanta's megachurches, 227 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 3: where influenced stretched far beyond Sunday mornings, and for a 228 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,839 Speaker 3: time no church loomed larger than new Birth. 229 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 12: And I make more on the outside than I do 230 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 12: on the inside because God's hands on me. 231 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,079 Speaker 3: For it was more than the sanctuary. It was an empire. 232 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 3: And that's where we're headed next. On Sunday mornings in 233 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 3: the nineteen nineties and early two thousands, Newbirth Missionary Baptist 234 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 3: Church felt less like a sanctuary and more like a stadium. 235 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 3: Jumbo tron screams smoke machines, a sound system that could 236 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 3: roule your chest. It was all the spectacle. That's where 237 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 3: I found myself most weekends, even in my twenties, home 238 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 3: from college. My parents would still drag me out of 239 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 3: bed Jack Daniels and black and mild smoked still on 240 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 3: my breast from the night before, and marched me back 241 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 3: to church. But once I was inside, I couldn't deny 242 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,199 Speaker 3: the energy. This wasn't the quiet church that your grandmother 243 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 3: went to. This was a show. And at the center 244 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 3: of it all was Bishop Eddie l. 245 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 13: Long. 246 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 12: Don't let nobody tell you what God dang don't. 247 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,959 Speaker 3: Under Law's leadership, Newbirths exploded. I watched it grow from 248 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 3: a sweat box on Snapfinger Road to a two hundred 249 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 3: and seventy acre campus with a football field, a gymnasium, 250 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 3: and a parking lot bigger than most shoppings. This glow 251 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 3: up match with lawns, larger than life personality. 252 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 12: Don't worry about tomorrow, because tomorrow a take care of itself. 253 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 12: Wat's this now? 254 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 3: He preached the prosperity gospel that promised faith and obedience 255 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 3: would be rewarded with wealth, health, and influence. Why they 256 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 3: are choosing you at this you're still getting a new 257 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 3: car and new house. He demanded loyalty, upheld traditional gender roles, 258 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 3: and took hard stances against homosexuality in same sex marriage. 259 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 8: And the reason why society is like it is is 260 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 8: because men are being feminized and women are becoming masculine. 261 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 3: And he looked the part. He was built like a linebacker, 262 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 3: preaching in muscle shirts and expensive suits. He drove Bentlee's 263 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 3: and wore platinum jewelry before most people even knew what 264 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 3: platinum was. He embodied the prosperity that he was preaching. 265 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 3: But it wasn't just what he wore or what he drove, 266 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 3: It was how he preached. Eddie Long was a performer, 267 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 3: his booming voice, dramatic pauses, the house band punctuating his words, 268 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 3: the Oregon swelling right on que. A sermon at new 269 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 3: Birth felt less like a lecture and more like a concert, 270 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 3: with the crowd hanging on to every beat. It was trouble, 271 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 3: people counting me out, and just like any other concert, 272 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 3: there was merch. New Birth had a full audio visual operation, 273 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 3: recording every sermon and selling tapes and CDs in the 274 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 3: church bookstore. It was kind of like DJ Drama's Gangs 275 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 3: the Grills, But for Jesus, on any given Sunday, you 276 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 3: never knew who you might run into. Maybe you descending 277 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 3: behind Dion Sanders. Maybe you could catch a surprise Kurt 278 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 3: Franklin concert. No wonder, Folks started calling this place Club 279 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 3: new Birth. If you couldn't afford tickets to a Falcons game, 280 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 3: this was the next best show in time. On a Sunday, 281 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 3: Eddie Long turned to pull pit into a platform and 282 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 3: influence into an empire. For a time, he made New 283 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 3: Birth the most powerful church in Atlanta, but influence cuts 284 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 3: both ways. With Long's rise came scrutiny. Allegations surfaced that 285 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 3: he was using church funds to support his lavish lifestyle. 286 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 3: Those allegations didn't stick, but in twenty ten, a real 287 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 3: scandal broke. 288 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 13: Three young men now are assuing Bishop Long, accusing him 289 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 13: of enticing them with money, cars, clothes, and expensive jewelry 290 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 13: in exchange for sexual favors. 291 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 3: Long denied the accusations, and he never stood a trial. 292 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 3: He reached the settlement with each of the accusers, but 293 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 3: week after week he kept preaching, his booming voice, filling 294 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 3: the church just like before. But the spell was broken. 295 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 3: Membership at New Birth plummeted, thousands left for other churches 296 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 3: or just stopped going all together. Eddie Long died in 297 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, and he was preaching all the way up 298 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 3: to the end. But by then New Birth was a 299 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 3: shadow of the empire that I remembered from my childhood. 300 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 3: After a lengthy search, in twenty eighteen, the church brought 301 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:13,959 Speaker 3: in doctor Jamal Brian, a charismatic, media savvy preacher from Baltimore, 302 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 3: to carry the torch. 303 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 12: Because by looking at me, you can't even tell I 304 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 12: got no gas in my car, no food in my refrigerator, 305 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,120 Speaker 12: no offering in my pocket book. But I still got 306 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 12: a praise, And I praised him like a million out 307 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 12: because I know my seeds. 308 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 7: Now, that's coombat. 309 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 3: His job wasn't just to get butts in seats. It 310 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 3: was to rebuild a brand, and he knew the only 311 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 3: way to do that was to master the same thing 312 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 3: Eddie Long had before him, the art of influence. But 313 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 3: in Jamal Brian's era, that didn't just mean Sunday sermons 314 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:53,719 Speaker 3: and television broadcast. It meant live streams, viral sound bites, 315 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 3: and Instagram clips. Brian wasn't only rebuilding new Birth's reputation, 316 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 3: he was crafting his own digital pool pick. 317 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 5: I've had to live my life out loud of the 318 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 5: good and the bad and the ugly. 319 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 2: Man, I'm gonna tell you, bro, like good place used 320 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 2: to be so passed. 321 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 3: I decided to pay my old church and visit to 322 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 3: see how things were going. And man, things were a 323 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 3: lot different from when I used to go here. 324 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 2: Or folks would be out here, you know. 325 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 3: New Births PR folks told me and our field producer 326 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 3: to show up around eight thirty am. We were running late, 327 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 3: and I braced myself for a traffic jam circling the 328 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 3: parking lot in the usual megachurch madness. But to my surprise, 329 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 3: the street leading up to the campus was so clear. 330 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 3: There was a group of women jogging down the middle 331 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 3: of the street. The parking lot was almost empty an 332 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 3: hour before service. I couldn't believe it. Back when I 333 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 3: used to come here, that would have been unheard of. 334 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 2: Are you all doing this good thing? Glad to have y'all. 335 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 3: We're pulling up on doctor Brian as he's getting his haircut. 336 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 337 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,479 Speaker 3: When Jamal Brian took over new Birth in twenty eighteen. 338 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 3: The church was still reeling from Eddie Long's death and 339 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 3: the scandals that shadowed his final years. New Birth wasn't 340 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,719 Speaker 3: just in need of a new pastor, it needed a resurrection. 341 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 3: Membership was down, public trust was shaken, and the megachurch 342 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 3: that once symbolized black excellence in the suburbs now felt 343 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 3: like a symbol of decline. 344 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 4: We're getting it out the mud. It was a dry 345 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 4: white season. The church had dwindled almost to nothing, and 346 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 4: God said, this is your assignment. 347 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 3: Brian is a different kind of pastor. He's from Baltimore, 348 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 3: where he built a reputation as a fiery preacher and 349 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 3: political activist. He marched in protests, sparred with city officials, 350 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 3: and wasn't afraid of controversy. In other words, he was 351 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 3: comfortable in the spotlight. And when he got to New Birth, 352 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 3: he thought he had some time to study for his assignment. 353 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 3: Little did he know he was getting hit with a 354 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 3: pop quiz off the rip. 355 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 4: I'm all in the AJC, I'm all on CNN. Pastor 356 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 4: comes to Atlanta, comes to New Birth. Then that Wednesday 357 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 4: I have a meeting and they said, hey, we don't 358 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 4: have the money for your moving expenses. Would you just say, 359 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 4: at the peak of its powers, New Birds was earning 360 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 4: ten million dollars a year after the smoke settled. At 361 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 4: the end of the Eddy Long era, the church was 362 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 4: in foreclosure and thirty two million dollars in debt. 363 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,360 Speaker 3: They didn't tell me they was facing foreclosure. 364 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 4: They don't tell me that until after my first Sunday. 365 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 5: All I thought was I had to rebuild the congregation numerically. 366 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 4: Not financially. 367 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 3: During his first six months on the job, doctor Bryant 368 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 3: says he was living in the embassy suites, surviving on 369 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 3: free breakfast in the morning and free or dervs in 370 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 3: the evening. Six years later, he's still faced with the 371 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 3: challenge of getting the church out of debt, but also 372 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 3: making New Birth relevant in a changing landscape. 373 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 5: There's the largest demographic of Black people, I think at 374 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 5: four percent who now identify as atheists an agnostic, and 375 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 5: so the Black church is fighting to get currency back 376 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:20,360 Speaker 5: into the community of relevance. When Black Lives Matter emerged, 377 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 5: it was significant moment because it was the first time 378 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 5: the Black church wasn't the center of the civil rights movement, 379 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 5: and there was no religious figure as the voice, and 380 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 5: so I think it's a different, distinctive time. 381 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 3: On top of cleaning up the church reputation, he's also 382 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,360 Speaker 3: trying to meet the congregation where they're at. Where Eddie 383 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 3: Long used tapes and CDs to spread his message, Doctor 384 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 3: Bryant clips his sermons and post them across social media. 385 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 5: My church holds eight thousand, but forty thousand are online, 386 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 5: so we're still just a studio. 387 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 3: But today we're lucky to see him perform in real life. 388 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 5: I want to preach today using as a subject shame 389 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:04,880 Speaker 5: on you. 390 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 3: He broke down the difference between guilt, which is feeling 391 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 3: bad about what you did, in shame feeling bad about 392 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 3: who you are, and in classic preacher fashion, he brought 393 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 3: it back to the moment. 394 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 14: You don't have the right to live in shame, but 395 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 14: I know who does. 396 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 2: Target should be in shame. 397 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 5: Target is struggling after strategic missteps on DEI, and that 398 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 5: is because people across the country have been boycotting the 399 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 5: retail giant since March. 400 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 4: And this is the man leading the growing effort. 401 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 5: It is not because of terrorifts, it is not because. 402 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 2: Of the stock. 403 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 3: In twenty twenty five, Jamal Bryant launched the Target fast 404 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 3: a forty day boycott during lit His message was simple. 405 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 3: If Target rolled back diversity and inclusion, black consumers could 406 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 3: roll back their He demanded real action, two hundred and 407 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 3: fifty million dollars deposited into black banks, genuine HBCU partnerships, 408 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 3: and follow through on Target's two billion dollar pledge to 409 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 3: black businesses. After George Floyd's death. 410 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 10: Tonight, and Atlanta pastor who led a national boycott of Target, 411 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 10: is reacting to news of a leadership change at the company. 412 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 3: Pastor Jamal Bryn It worked, sales, dipped, foot traffic slow 413 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 3: in the company's longtime CEO stepped down. Briant called it 414 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 3: one of the most organized black boycotts since Montgomery. Then 415 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 3: he set his sights on Dollar General, accusing the chain 416 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 3: of profiting off black communities while cutting diversity goals. Instead 417 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 3: of a full boycott, he launched an electronic protest, flooding inboxes, 418 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 3: phone lines, and timelines. In both cases, Briant proved a 419 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 3: pastor's influence can extend far beyond the pull pit. His 420 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 3: boycotts weren't juste sermons strategy, and they were content. But again, 421 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 3: influence cuts both ways. The same spotlight that lets Brian 422 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 3: call out target or dollar general also makes him a 423 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 3: target too. 424 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 4: So I don't preach from a condemnation or self righteousness. 425 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 4: I preach from somebody who is a divorcee, who is 426 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 4: an adulterer. 427 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 10: Are you ready to get into this megachurch messiness. 428 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 3: Jamal used to be married to a reality TV show personality, 429 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 3: Giselle Bryant of the Real Housewives of Potomac. They married 430 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 3: in two thousand and two and had three daughters, but 431 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 3: by two thousand and seven their marriage was unraveling. Jaselle 432 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 3: discovered that Jamal had been unfaithful. He later admitted to 433 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 3: not only multiple affairs, but to also fothering a child 434 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 3: with a parishioner while they were married. 435 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 10: It was later confirmed that mister Chocolate was actually passed. 436 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 3: Brian with his mess it sell for Jamal. It was 437 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 3: a moment of reckoning, but because Giselle was in the 438 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 3: public eye, this wasn't just a private breakup. It became 439 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 3: a part of Jamal's public narrative. He made the rounds 440 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 3: on TV shows and podcasts walk us through what happened. 441 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 14: I stepped rolling outside of my marriage and had an 442 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 14: extra marital affair that ultimately ended in a divorce to 443 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,919 Speaker 14: an incredibly wonderful woman, not because anything was flawed in 444 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 14: the marriage or in her but in my own immaturity. 445 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 3: His scandals and sermons were dissected not just in the 446 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 3: parking lot, but on blogs, gossip sites, and Bravo reality 447 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 3: TV shows. 448 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 7: Did they date? 449 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 3: I don't know? He says no, he says yes. Who knows? 450 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 3: But Jamal Bryant doesn't just live inside other people's headlines. 451 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 3: He makes his own On Instagram. He's built a following 452 00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 3: of more than half a million people. Sermon clips, protest calls, 453 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 3: behind the scenes moments, all packaged for the timeline. His 454 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 3: church services don't just happen in Litonia. They happen on 455 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 3: your phone, in your feed, and in your group chat. 456 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 3: I'm looking for people that smell like weeds. Jamal has 457 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,199 Speaker 3: also launched his own podcast, Let's Be Clear, where he 458 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 3: interviews guests like ray j, Alexis Sky and Kashawan Rock, 459 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 3: names you usually see on a gossip blog, not a 460 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 3: gospel broadcast. In twenty four you was engaged. It happened overnight, 461 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 3: but then he went to jail. So a week later, 462 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 3: I'm locked up. 463 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 2: A prison. 464 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 3: No oh no, no, no, no, but beyond gossip, doctor 465 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 3: Bryant broaches topics and issues that his predecessor Eddie Long 466 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 3: wouldn't dare touch on. Absolutely, no pun intended there. 467 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 4: Because a lot of people can hide behind data. 468 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 5: It's only four percent of the population or whatever that 469 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 5: other with you, yeah, who have filled out the sense 470 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 5: that part because I know a lot of people who 471 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 5: do lots of things yes and never have to explain 472 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 5: it are declared publicly yes. And I felt like I 473 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 5: making moral judgment as a divorce, he as a cult. 474 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 3: The point is clear, Jamal Bryant isn't waiting for gossip 475 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 3: blogs to tell his story. He's building his own channels, 476 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 3: producing his own content, and curating his own audience. And 477 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 3: in Atlanta, a city where influences currency, that makes him 478 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 3: more than a pastor, It makes him a brand. Briant 479 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 3: may be one of the most visible examples, but he's 480 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 3: not alone. Across the city, a new generation of pastors, podcasters, 481 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 3: and even gospel trap artists are building their own platforms, 482 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:58,479 Speaker 3: shaping theology, identity, and culture in real time online. Next, 483 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 3: we step inside that system, the new church influencers. So far, 484 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 3: we've seen how Atlanta's preachers built influence from the pulpit, 485 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 3: from Martin Luther King Junior's sermons to Eddie Lawn's mega 486 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 3: church empire to Jamal Bryant turning his church into a brand. 487 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 3: But today, influence doesn't stop at the sanctuary doors. 488 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 10: Okay, so today I'm going to tell you the five 489 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 10: things that you need to be a Christian influencer. Yes, 490 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 10: there's a difference between a Christian influencer. 491 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 3: Welcome to Atlanta's online faith ecosystem. To understand it, we're 492 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 3: going to take a little tour. First stop the Christian 493 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 3: Influencer Awards, a red carpet event that celebrates pastors, podcasters, 494 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 3: and content creators who figured out how to make faith 495 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 3: go viral for them. Being a preacher isn't just about 496 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 3: Sunday Morning. It's about branding, followers and engagement. 497 00:28:59,320 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 2: So can you. 498 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 13: Living amongst influencers back in the day. I'm talking about 499 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 13: old school influencers like John and Andrew sharing the good 500 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 13: news that Christ has come, or like the og influencer 501 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 13: Jesus Christ. Well, tonight, we would like to recognize some 502 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 13: of the influencers amongst our time. So here are the 503 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 13: nominees for the Influencer of the year. 504 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 3: But the ecosystem isn't just hype and hashtags. Another lane 505 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 3: is the critics, YouTubers who dissect preachers the way ESPN 506 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 3: analysts break down athletes. 507 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,239 Speaker 6: He misses so many things, and I think sometimes he 508 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 6: has blinded himself. 509 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 4: Jamal Brian is clearly someone who is more about the 510 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 4: culture than he is for Christ. 511 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 3: Or take a listen at this dude who goes by 512 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 3: Pastor Rod of the YouTube channel. What do the scriptures say? 513 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 3: He speaks out against black preachers who talk politics in 514 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 3: the poolpit. 515 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 15: I noticed something that I'm seeing today. I'm seeing a 516 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 15: lot of these goofy, black, hypocritical preachers in their little pulpit, 517 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 15: standing up there like pharaohs, and these tailored expensive suits, 518 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 15: preaching racial vengeance instead of biblical repentance. 519 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 2: YEP. 520 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 3: Criticizing preachers isn't new. We've all heard our grandmothers and 521 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 3: auntie say that Pastor so and so ain't shit in 522 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 3: the church parking lot. But it is a trip seeing 523 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 3: people build audiences for these opinions. Our next stop is 524 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 3: Changed Church, where Pastor Darius Daniels preaches like Tony Robbins, 525 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 3: but with a Bible. He finds ways to booster emotional, relational, 526 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 3: and even business iq. 527 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 2: The church not supposed to do everything. 528 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 3: There are some things that you. 529 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 5: May be expecting the church to do that you're supposed 530 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 5: to do, and I want to talk to you about it. 531 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 2: In this video. 532 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 3: Then there's twenty eight to nineteen church, where the pastor 533 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 3: Philip Anthony Mitchell packs out services with gen z krows, 534 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 3: blending conservative theology with street level charisma. 535 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 8: Sexual immorality, homosexuality, a duntry, all of. 536 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 3: The things we practiced. The Lord says, when. 537 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 7: You see them in your life, cut them off. 538 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 3: So I made a skit about how long the line's 539 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 3: at twenty eight nineteen church, be I have to take. 540 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 2: This video right. 541 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 3: His lines wrap around the block. Visitors show up hours early, 542 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 3: killing time with corn hole and Connect four in the 543 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 3: parking lot, while the church staff manages the crowd with bullhorns. 544 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 3: Philip Mitchell might not need a podcast, He's already got 545 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 3: over a million followers on TikTok, But in an error 546 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 3: where content is keen, a podcast is just another way 547 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 3: to spread his message. It's called Street Preachers, and it 548 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 3: hits kind of like a mixtape. 549 00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 9: False prophets not the devil, wolves and sheep's clothing powered 550 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 9: by Satan. That's right, but their biggest warning was not 551 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 9: point the fingers of the devil. 552 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 15: Their biggest warning to the church in the first century 553 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 15: was watch out for false profits. 554 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 3: These days, Atlanta's preachers aren't just competing from the pool pit. 555 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 3: They're competing on the timeline. Scroll long enough, you'll find sermons, skits, 556 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 3: and songs, all preaching to the same feed. The message 557 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 3: is still spiritual, but the medium has changed, and so 558 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 3: have the messengers, which brings us to Atlanta's Hood Gospel. 559 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 3: One of its biggest stars is one k Few. At 560 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 3: first glance, you may mistake him for a member of 561 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 3: the Migos, Dreadlocks and designer Shades. He's enjoying a viral 562 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 3: second coming on TikTok, where he retells Bible stories like 563 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 3: cainean Nabel and tell us what happened with Cane and 564 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 3: Nabel brom. 565 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 11: Yeah, man, boy, wow, man, our long story. 566 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 3: Short and Adam and Eve even right, you. 567 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 2: Know what I'm saying. 568 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 15: I'm the muscle, so she eat the fruit. 569 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 11: But Adam Ketcher, you know what I'm saying in the 570 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 11: middle of it, So Adam stopped like I like to 571 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 11: do that one right right. 572 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 3: These stories are thousands of years old and have been 573 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 3: taught a million times. The lessons are typically about jealousy, responsibility, 574 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 3: and the consequences of sin. But the way one k 575 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 3: Few tells it, it's like a story from the streets 576 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 3: of Atlanta. And that's the point. 577 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 2: It's like, we literally the new church. 578 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 11: You feel what I'm saying, So I feel like we 579 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 11: really you know what I'm saying this This is a 580 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 11: perfect time and opportunity to really know what I'm saying. 581 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 11: Shift the narrative a little bit so people that not 582 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 11: close to church can know what I'm saying. They can 583 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 11: come to church as they are. 584 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 3: Theytven, one of Tramp's pioneers, grew up playing the keys 585 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 3: in the church, and he's always kept his faith front 586 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 3: and center. He don't drink, he don't cuss, and he 587 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 3: don't smoke. But lately, he admits that the city's rap 588 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 3: scene has gotten darker. 589 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 6: But I went to the studio and it's thirty guys 590 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 6: with extended clips hanging out their pants, and I'm like, bro, 591 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,399 Speaker 6: I can't come to the studio no more. 592 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 3: Like when did it get like this? So in twenty 593 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 3: twenty four, he teamed up with one k Fu to 594 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 3: make something different. Their relationship dates back a decade prior, 595 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 3: when Zaytoven first discovered few rapping at an open mic 596 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 3: at his church. Together they May Pray for Atlanta, a 597 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 3: gospel trap project that blends the beats and the Bible. 598 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 2: Jump make your favorite trapping. 599 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 6: I'll be like, I almost want to do more Christian 600 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 6: hip hop than anything now because it's more fulfilling. It's like, 601 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 6: I want to get these guys the Xatoven beats, the 602 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 6: Zaytoven bounce, but with the message that they have and 603 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 6: the words that they have to go together with it, 604 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 6: I feel like it's something special. 605 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:56,760 Speaker 3: And it's working. 606 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 6: For years, the church has inspired rap music, but now 607 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 6: the music is carrying the message back to the church. 608 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 6: I was in the grocery to the other day and 609 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,319 Speaker 6: a guy with tattoos on his face, gold teeth in 610 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 6: his mouth. I'm talking about Super Street and he's like, oh, 611 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 6: the boy Zatoven say. All I can think of him 612 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 6: is he gonna talk about Gucci or you know, future 613 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 6: or whatever? Music gotn't done. I did a project with 614 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 6: the artist one k Fu called pray for Atlanta. That's 615 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 6: the only thing he talked about. And I'm like, you 616 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 6: heard that or you know what that is, So you know, 617 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,320 Speaker 6: that just goes to show the reach that that music has. 618 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,719 Speaker 3: The new altar is digital, and whether you're a megachurch 619 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 3: pastor or a gospel rapper with a ring like the 620 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 3: competition for souls and followers is playing out on the 621 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 3: same screen for artists like one k Few and producers 622 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,800 Speaker 3: like zatoven Face is gone viral and once again Atlanta 623 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,880 Speaker 3: is the amplifier. The same city that gave the world 624 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 3: trap and Krunk is now remixing the gospel before a 625 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 3: new generation. A man with one foot in both worlds, 626 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 3: Satovein has a sense of which one will last. 627 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 6: Church is really, I think the hospital for everybody. Not 628 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 6: that you know, you're heart or you bleeding or something 629 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 6: like that, but for heartaches and things or that nature. 630 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 6: People still, you know, go to church to fill that void. 631 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 3: And maybe that's what makes Atlanta so powerful. It's a 632 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 3: city that keeps finding new ways to make the sacred 633 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 3: go platinum. 634 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 1: Religion promotes morality and traditional family values, but in reality, 635 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,879 Speaker 1: nothing is really all good because it can be hard 636 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: to practice what you preach. But the church will always 637 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,959 Speaker 1: have a place in Atlanta, and the Internet only makes 638 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 1: it's reached that much greater. And now the church is 639 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: being influenced by music, just like me. Music was influenced 640 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: by the church. But beware of false prophets whose messages 641 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 1: and being delivered in good faith. Like my mama used 642 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: to say, don't worry about what they do, worry about 643 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: what you do. 644 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 3: In the next episode, we post up on one Street 645 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 3: in Atlanta to see what it's really like to open 646 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 3: up a business in the so called black Mecca in 647 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 3: Atlanta is open for business. 648 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: Atlanta is the will Packer Media production in partnership with 649 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:46,960 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcast, Idea, Generation and Complex. This episode was written, reported, 650 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 1: and produced by Maurice Garland, with additional production from. 651 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 2: Christina Lee and Jul Wicker. 652 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: Our supervising producer and editor Ishiva bayad Our. Managing producers 653 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,839 Speaker 1: are Rose Roulini Bacon O'mari graham. 654 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 2: At, Shamara Rochester. 655 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 1: Editorial support from Sean Setero and Jack Irwin. 656 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 2: Original theme music by Our Mind Sahota. 657 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 1: Sound designed by Shiva Bayat and Our Mind Salta, mixed 658 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: and mastered by Our Mind Sahota. Fact checking done by 659 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 1: Sean Setero. Our field producer is Johnny Kaufman. Clearance counsel 660 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: Donison Caliph Perez, Lisa Kliff and Jacqueline Schwedt. Executive producers 661 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 1: for will Packermedia are Will Packer and Alex Bowden. 662 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 2: Co producer for will Packer Media is Nimy Mohunt. 663 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 1: Executive producers for Idea Generation and Complex of Jack Irwin 664 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:39,760 Speaker 1: and Noah Callahan. 665 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 2: Beller. 666 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 1: Head of talent relations for Complex is Anthony Alred. Talent 667 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 1: associate for Complex is Ryan Houston. Senior attorney for Complex 668 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,800 Speaker 1: is Jordan Washington. Special thanks to Tyler Klan, Terry Harrison, 669 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 1: Chris Senator, Noams Griffin, and Candace Howard. 670 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,360 Speaker 2: I'm Big Rude, Peace