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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie in Samantha and welcome to Stephane.

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Speaker 1: Never told you a production of iHeart Radio Today is

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Speaker 1: such a special occasion for a lot of reasons. One,

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Speaker 1: we are joined by our good friend Eaves Jeff Code

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Speaker 1: as always for these female first We're so happy to

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Speaker 1: have you. Eves. Hello, I'm really excited. There's just so

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Speaker 1: many new things happening right now. So can we do it?

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Speaker 1: Can we like break that fourth fall and say that

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Speaker 1: we haven't been in the studio together when we're recording together.

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Speaker 1: Is that a known Is that a known thing? I

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Speaker 1: think you should break away. I was just gonna say

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Speaker 1: that we're finally in the studio together again, as we

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Speaker 1: haven't been in a long time, and it feels nice.

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Speaker 1: That's one of those new things that's happening today. Yes, um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're in the back in the studio for the first

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Speaker 1: time and over a year and a half. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: been very interesting getting everything set up and kind of

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Speaker 1: getting back into the swing of how it used to be.

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Speaker 1: And also we're not entirely sure if this is our episode,

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Speaker 1: but we're going to say that it is. It's a

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Speaker 1: special episode. Nonetheless, Um, it's a Sminty female first extrafic

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Speaker 1: cancer and we finally have our cheesecake and our champagne.

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Speaker 1: That just attackted me. So that was fun. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: we were going to open it on Mike, but it

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Speaker 1: decided to open by itself and we screamed, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I screamed or not, but one of

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Speaker 1: us did just blacked out. And we know that you're

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Speaker 1: not going to hear that because we know you won't

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Speaker 1: like screaming on Mike, So we were going to Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have a little sound effect. But though, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was that was fun. Yes, in case you're concerned, we

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Speaker 1: are not going to be eating the cheesecake. Yes, it

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Speaker 1: is here. It is beautiful strawberry based swipped cream. It

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Speaker 1: is a New York style cheesecake with a couple of strawberries,

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Speaker 1: several and some with cream. Quite delightful from Cheesecake in

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Speaker 1: East Point, Atlanta. If you were wondering East Port, Georgia's

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Speaker 1: Expoint Georgia, Atlanta. It's the neighborhood. I guess. I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna lie it's a burrow. It's not really, it's a neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: Feels city proper, I guess, but it's East Point, Georgia

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Speaker 1: and probably one of the best cheesecakes in Georgia in

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Speaker 1: my humble opinion, of course, And now that I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: about it, we all have the cheesecakes sitting here right

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Speaker 1: next to us, and it kind of feels like dangling

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Speaker 1: the carrot in front of the horse because I can't

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Speaker 1: eat it look at its first, I thought it was

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Speaker 1: going to be you. You're poking at it. From a minute,

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Speaker 1: I was poking at it as if it's some type

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Speaker 1: of creature or Yeah, so this is very, very exciting.

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Speaker 1: Will definitely be trying the cheesecake at the animal give

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Speaker 1: tasting notes. But in the meantime, I know Eaves, you

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Speaker 1: had an idea to kind of have a loose conversation

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Speaker 1: about first and their importance and the context around them

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Speaker 1: and why that is important. Yes, yes, so I was

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Speaker 1: just thinking, of course, if we're doing this twenty fifth thing,

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Speaker 1: it could be like looking back, it feels like sort

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Speaker 1: of a graduation, right, this is one of the speeches

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Speaker 1: thinking at the end, But I just think that we've

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Speaker 1: brought up a lot of times given that disclaimer that Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is the first and there have been a bunch

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Speaker 1: of different kinds of first for women, um that we've

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Speaker 1: gone through in then so far, and each one of

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Speaker 1: those always have people who have come before them, who

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Speaker 1: have done something that contributed to the reason that they

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Speaker 1: have that achievement that that we're talking about for the day.

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Speaker 1: And so it's very fair to bring that up every time,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like I can't not bring that up

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Speaker 1: every time because first are such a tricky thing, Like

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of reasons why the people who

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Speaker 1: aren't the first ones listed didn't. They didn't have the

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Speaker 1: opportunity people didn't know about them, that wasn't in the

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Speaker 1: history books that was ever written, that were made available

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Speaker 1: and accessible to a lot of people. It's there could

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Speaker 1: there would be a million and one reasons why somebody

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Speaker 1: isn't at first for something. And I think just it's

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Speaker 1: just really important to acknowledge the amount of access, resources, privilege,

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Speaker 1: sheer look and all of those things that are involved

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Speaker 1: in someone being a first, and so just remembering to

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Speaker 1: keep that balance between yes, we should acknowledge this person

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Speaker 1: as a first. And it's interesting and it's fascinating and

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Speaker 1: it's compelling, and it's important in the grand scheme of

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Speaker 1: things and in different lineages, but there is also a

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Speaker 1: lot of other nuance that goes into it that we

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Speaker 1: have to pay attention to, and we have to remember

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Speaker 1: when we're talking about people and framing them as first,

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Speaker 1: because we don't want to just say this person was first,

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Speaker 1: and even at that, we don't want we don't want

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Speaker 1: it to be a thing where we think that just

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Speaker 1: because something is the first, that exalts them above other people.

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Speaker 1: They do have super cool stories and the things that

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Speaker 1: they do are very pioneering, very bold and brave and

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Speaker 1: risky and all of those things, but they're not they're

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Speaker 1: not to be all end all. They're not at the

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Speaker 1: begin dinner at the alpha and though Omega, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just kind of wanted to talk about that today

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Speaker 1: and give that that conversation a little bit more space

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Speaker 1: because we usually mention it. I think people understand it,

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Speaker 1: but it's just something that we bypass, and it's also

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Speaker 1: something that's so prevalent, like it's it's something that's always

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Speaker 1: going to be worth talking about if we're thinking about history,

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Speaker 1: because we're living history all the time and we're still

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Speaker 1: setting first, and that's something that's that comes up so

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Speaker 1: much in the news, like what we just why is

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Speaker 1: this the first? And those first are honestly often very

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Speaker 1: granular talking about and I sometimes in my life I'll

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Speaker 1: be like, I bet I'm the only person in the

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Speaker 1: history of time to have ever uttered this sentence. But

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Speaker 1: it's like so specific, the first to slip on a

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Speaker 1: banana on twenty first Street West Atlanta, Like okay, right,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, you know, that's why I wanted to bring

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Speaker 1: it to the table today. I know y'all have some

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Speaker 1: good thoughts about it too, because we've talked about a

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Speaker 1: little bit before. Yeah, I think that is a really

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Speaker 1: great point and something to always keep in mind, especially

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Speaker 1: when just through this job and through researching in general,

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Speaker 1: it can be really easy to oh, here's the first

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Speaker 1: and okay, that's that's it, and I'm done. But so

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Speaker 1: much of it depends on who has been writing history

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Speaker 1: and even what country you're in, because sometimes I'll be

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Speaker 1: researching something for um, a country that doesn't speak English,

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Speaker 1: and did it's just not uploaded to the internet or

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Speaker 1: wherever I have easy access to it? And I also

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Speaker 1: think I do it is important to share these stories

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Speaker 1: and even if they're not at first right like they

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Speaker 1: could be happening all around the same time, and I

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Speaker 1: think that a lot is like, I bet a lot

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Speaker 1: of instances of things there were people doing kind of

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Speaker 1: similar things at the same time, having these similar accomplishments,

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Speaker 1: because it just kind of makes sense to me. And

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking more like less about feminist history in this case,

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Speaker 1: but I also researched food a lot, and to me

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Speaker 1: it just makes sense like a bunch of people at

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Speaker 1: different times would have been like, oh, what if I

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Speaker 1: boil fish in this dish? Sounds great? Like But so

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Speaker 1: when you try to get to a first and like,

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Speaker 1: I bet a bunch of people, but who got the

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Speaker 1: who got the attention? Who got written down in history?

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Speaker 1: And I do think it's almost exciting to be like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's this first, but then ask all these questions of why,

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Speaker 1: and maybe you can find somebody who history hasn't shown

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Speaker 1: a light on, or find another story that people don't know.

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Speaker 1: And history is always it can feel static when you

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Speaker 1: are looking back at ancient times, especially older times, but

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Speaker 1: you can uncover things that people we didn't know, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's very exciting. It is, and that Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is random and kind but kind of related that

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Speaker 1: just makes me think. I often think that with drugs

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Speaker 1: like recreational our psychoactive drugs, who was the first to

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Speaker 1: try this thing and say, wow, this has a psychoactive

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Speaker 1: effect that I think I want to try again, and

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Speaker 1: I should probably introduced to more people, right the first

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Speaker 1: person to do that? Will we ever know? Well, with

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Speaker 1: some like you know, some of the herbs and medicines

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Speaker 1: that people have used for a really long time, Like

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Speaker 1: I'm just wandering by and I see this plant and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to choose to just like I don't know,

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Speaker 1: rub my fingers on and it's niff it or like

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Speaker 1: grind it up and put it in the five I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know how they were ingesting in

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Speaker 1: early days. And then it kind of goes back to thinking, also,

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Speaker 1: how many people have died think they could do the

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Speaker 1: same thing with other things and they couldn't. It was

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Speaker 1: poisoned and they're dead and thanks for trying, and now

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Speaker 1: we never know, and we never know. It's it's like

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Speaker 1: the people who are developing medicines and drugs and they try,

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Speaker 1: they test on themselves first, You're like, well that was

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Speaker 1: a mistake. Could try dude, Thanks for letting us know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think overall, with all of the female first

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Speaker 1: that we talked about, I think what's fascinating is again, yes,

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Speaker 1: we have to come back to the fact that we

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Speaker 1: don't actually know if they were the first. We say

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Speaker 1: we think that like the first recorded to have done

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Speaker 1: these things, and it's very important that we put those

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Speaker 1: caveats on there. But I think that's part of the

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Speaker 1: reason why we're coming back to it, because the people

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Speaker 1: that you bring to us are the people who should

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Speaker 1: have been credited, but because of whether it's they are

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Speaker 1: of a different race or ethnicity and there and of

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Speaker 1: course the overall powers of the white supremacy in general

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Speaker 1: are the ones that like, no, but we want to

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Speaker 1: be as the changemakers and get the credit and get

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Speaker 1: the money and get all of these things. For so

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Speaker 1: long it's still happening today to the fact that we

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Speaker 1: are having brand new first with people of marginalized communities

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Speaker 1: because for so long it was being um gate, kept

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Speaker 1: away from anybody allowed to even be participated to be

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Speaker 1: a first. And like think about the spelling be the

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Speaker 1: fact that we finally have a young black girl being

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Speaker 1: the first young black girl to win the spelling b

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Speaker 1: I'm like, really, it's one how like that doesn't make sense,

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Speaker 1: Like I hate that that's what we're celebrating. I hate

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Speaker 1: that we're not just celebrating her victory but because she

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Speaker 1: became a first in one. But those conversations are like,

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Speaker 1: but why how are we still here at this point

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Speaker 1: in time? And just the same as when we talk

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Speaker 1: about the Oscars or any kind of film and the

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Speaker 1: fact that we have to argue, no, but it was

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Speaker 1: because of racism, is not because they're not good at

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Speaker 1: making films or you know, this community is not great

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Speaker 1: at having this because they don't have access or opportunity,

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Speaker 1: and that is absurd, and like, of course this goes

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Speaker 1: back to all the political conversations that we have about

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Speaker 1: a firm to action and any of those things. And

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Speaker 1: now I guess critical race theory, which blows my mind.

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Speaker 1: I can't I can't handle it. It's kind of one

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Speaker 1: of those things. I'm like, if I have to talk

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Speaker 1: about this one more time, or not to read this

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Speaker 1: one more time about this ignorant person not understanding how

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Speaker 1: this is actolutely hilarious because critical race theory has existed

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Speaker 1: for a minute figuring this out and the fact it's

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Speaker 1: been out there, and the conversation has been out there,

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Speaker 1: but at the same time, it's been for the longest

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Speaker 1: time held back from, like, I guess, popular conversations, popular

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Speaker 1: historical conversations in schools because people are freaking racist. And

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Speaker 1: that's why I didn't learn about Skiky. I didn't learn

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Speaker 1: about Tulsa any of that until I got into college

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Speaker 1: and became a social worker, which you know, is a

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Speaker 1: little towards especially when it comes back to the fact

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Speaker 1: that I came into a point of trying to learn

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Speaker 1: about social justice and what that looks like as a

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Speaker 1: social worker and why these conversations have to happen. But

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Speaker 1: because I was in that field is the only reason

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Speaker 1: I knew all these things. And I'm like, this is absurd,

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Speaker 1: this historical Just because you don't like it doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: we can't learn about it. It's like you have to

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Speaker 1: be predisposed to caring about those things to even get

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Speaker 1: to the point where you have access to learn about them.

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Speaker 1: It feels like a problem that will never be solved

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Speaker 1: because for the people who aren't predisposed to things like

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Speaker 1: social justice and social work, they're just never They're going

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Speaker 1: to stay in the dark right. And that's kind of

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Speaker 1: like when shows like this one or any marginalized community

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Speaker 1: like produced show where it's like niche and that puts

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Speaker 1: like female first, Oh that's a niche instead of just

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Speaker 1: the men white men, and we like learn about in school.

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Speaker 1: That's not that's just how it is that you have

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Speaker 1: to search out these other stories that are not presented

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Speaker 1: in like an easy way or in our own education

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Speaker 1: here in the United States. So yeah, you have to

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Speaker 1: take it upon yourself. So like, yeah, you gotta do

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Speaker 1: the work and you have to know what you have

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Speaker 1: to have the questions to ask, yeah, exactly, which is

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Speaker 1: really hard and especially with the wealth of information that

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Speaker 1: we have available to us at this point, how do

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Speaker 1: you sift through that? I don't know if there's too

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Speaker 1: much of a tangent, but it just makes me think

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Speaker 1: about how prevalent or how how much we say the

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Speaker 1: phrase just google it, and how we use that when

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Speaker 1: we like, I think about interactions that we have in

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Speaker 1: social media, and when somebody doesn't provide sources for an

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Speaker 1: argument that they're trying to make, somebody will say, well,

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Speaker 1: just do the work on your own, just google it.

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Speaker 1: But and that makes sense, like do the work. But

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Speaker 1: at the same time we need to consider the fact

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Speaker 1: that you still have to know how to sift through Google,

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Speaker 1: like that googling something and alone is a whole like

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Speaker 1: knowledge base that you have to have. It's a whole skill,

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Speaker 1: like no one how to google things and how until

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Speaker 1: one thing apart from another, Especially for people who don't

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Speaker 1: have that much familiarity with tech, it's like, Okay, google it,

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Speaker 1: then what do I do with that information? Right? Right,

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Speaker 1: It's still the same difficult. Information is still complex. And

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Speaker 1: we talked about it with our book club about Inferior,

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Speaker 1: just how science was so biased and it looks really like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's scientific words, and this dude is a doctor, so

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Speaker 1: I believe it. But in the end it was very

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Speaker 1: misogynistic and sexist because he wanted to be misogynistic and

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Speaker 1: sexist and lean to the fact of men are powerful,

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Speaker 1: women are weak. That's the way it is. And it's

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Speaker 1: kind of the whole thing about anything on Google. You

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Speaker 1: have to work through it because the algorithms alone, you

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Speaker 1: never understand why you're getting what you're getting half the time,

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Speaker 1: and whether or not it is trustworthy and if it's

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Speaker 1: a trustworthy site, I think we talked about that previously

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Speaker 1: with Q and on, and we talked about that with

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Speaker 1: Bridget repeatedly about how misinformation is so elaborate in this

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Speaker 1: especially in the world of the Internet, which is why

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Speaker 1: people believe people are eating babies, right, which is so absurd.

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Speaker 1: But the fact of the matter is, yeah, there's so

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Speaker 1: much out there. Sure, googling it, but you don't know

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Speaker 1: what you're getting and whether it's actually sound. I was

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Speaker 1: gonna make it really bad. I was definitely gonna be like, well,

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Speaker 1: babies are flush, don't make that joke nobody, and it happened.

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Speaker 1: We've been canceled. Yeah, but yeah, I mean. And also

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Speaker 1: we've done an episode on Wikipedia and how I mean

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Speaker 1: this was a couple of years ago, but at the time,

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Speaker 1: only sev of the entries on Wikipedia we're about women.

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Speaker 1: I'm sevent So if you're googling it, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of people do, they just go to Wikipedia doesn't exist. Um,

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Speaker 1: And then you got to do do more work and

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Speaker 1: you might just be like, Okay, that doesn't exist. I'm done,

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Speaker 1: you know, but I do I do like how much

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Speaker 1: of a conversation it is now because I was scrolling

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Speaker 1: through and this was I wasn't even arching for it.

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Speaker 1: When I was scrolling through my social media feed earlier today,

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Speaker 1: I was there was an article about how it was

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Speaker 1: the first entire team of women to call the MLB

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Speaker 1: the Major League Baseball, and I was like, really, like,

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Speaker 1: it's the first time that an MLB is game. And

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Speaker 1: I don't know anything about Major League Baseball and baseball

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Speaker 1: in general, but I was like, that's the first, right

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Speaker 1: there in my face. Like we're always constantly talking about

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Speaker 1: these kinds of things. And the other one that came

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Speaker 1: up the other day was m J. Rodriguez being the

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Speaker 1: first trans person to be nominated for a Lead Actress

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Speaker 1: Emmy and and that's just wild. Yeah, It's like the

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Speaker 1: sports news alone is infariating because literally last year was

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Speaker 1: the first time they've ever had a coach with an MLB,

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Speaker 1: and like, it's like, what what's happening? As well as

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Speaker 1: we're talking about constantly the many wins that we don't

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Speaker 1: hit talk about with like women's soccer. We know, we

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Speaker 1: celebrate it, we are excited about it, but they're not

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Speaker 1: talked about as much because they are women, and we've

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Speaker 1: talked about they're not paid the worth, which is a

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Speaker 1: whole other conversation, But it comes back back to that.

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Speaker 1: It's women are not credited in general. The first are

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Speaker 1: very much astrict half the time, whether it's because they

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Speaker 1: don't want to give credit to it or they want

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Speaker 1: to ignore it or try to have a but a

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Speaker 1: man also does it. I love the code and there's

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Speaker 1: a man a part of that. And yeah, and the

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Speaker 1: other part of that is it's infuriating, and I know

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Speaker 1: it is for those who have accomplished these amazing goals,

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Speaker 1: who have accomplished these big things to have to be

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Speaker 1: called female something or the first black woman or like

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Speaker 1: it's like that seems you know what I mean. Like

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Speaker 1: as much as I would love to be accredited with

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Speaker 1: something huge like change, life changing, helping in some kind

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Speaker 1: of social movement, but if my credit came as the

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Speaker 1: first Asian woman, then it is a part of me, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the first person. Why it's such a weird thing, But

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Speaker 1: we have to in order to recognize how bad how

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Speaker 1: there's no equity within any any industry, almost almost none

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Speaker 1: when it comes to people in the marginalized communities being

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Speaker 1: able to be credited with anything to begin with. And

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if there's to no once

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Speaker 1: for now. But I mean that just makes me think

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Speaker 1: because I definitely get that feeling like as a black woman,

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Speaker 1: like knowing that so many things are it always feels

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Speaker 1: like a caveat to say first black woman, Well there

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Speaker 1: is a white woman who did it first, and then

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Speaker 1: it's just left at that. Right, that's all the context

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Speaker 1: that's going to be happening on only a certain amount

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Speaker 1: of time. We have to recognize it because the part

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Speaker 1: of the problem is a when it does happen, people

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Speaker 1: are not being credited correctly. B Again, the marginalist communities

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Speaker 1: are not given the same opportunities as all of the

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Speaker 1: white community essentially, and what it comes down to the

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Speaker 1: fact it's taken too long to get to the point

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Speaker 1: that we start talking about equity versus equality and why

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Speaker 1: we need to talk about that, and what the differences

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Speaker 1: are and how important that we recognize those differences. But

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Speaker 1: again it comes back to once again looking back on

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Speaker 1: what has been happening and who has been doing things

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Speaker 1: and who continues to do things, and the fact that

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Speaker 1: we have to dig up that information without being able

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Speaker 1: to actually just celebrate and enjoy it to what it

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Speaker 1: is that is an authortity and kind of tragedy in

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Speaker 1: the fact that it takes away from that celebration in general. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I think in our capitalistic society that yes, does

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Speaker 1: struggle with a lot of like diversity and sexism and

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Speaker 1: racism issues. The companies use it as like, see, the

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Speaker 1: first black woman to do this, is that our company

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Speaker 1: or whatever, and it becomes like, look, how good we're doing.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. Also, I've been thinking about this because recently,

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Speaker 1: as both of us I'm assuming no. Three billionaires are

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Speaker 1: competing to go to space, and I've just been thinking,

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Speaker 1: like to be the first, Like they want to go

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Speaker 1: down in history and they wanted that that like title

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Speaker 1: of I was the first person to do this commercial

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Speaker 1: space flight. Like it just feels so gross, but like

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Speaker 1: it feels different than when we talk about in our

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Speaker 1: Female First series of women who were like, I'm passionate

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Speaker 1: about this thing, I want to do it and I

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Speaker 1: really care about it, whereas this feels like basically a

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Speaker 1: dick competition where they want to be remembered in history.

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Speaker 1: They want that, and it's just been something on my

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Speaker 1: mind where I'm watching this unfolding. Still it sounds like

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Speaker 1: they're trying to change a narrative, to be honest, to

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Speaker 1: be like instead of the dickhead who took billions of

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Speaker 1: dollars and didn't give about anybody else, especially their own workers.

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Speaker 1: So why would we We're gonna be remembered for going

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Speaker 1: to space and competing with this other two white dudes

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Speaker 1: who I don't know one really cares about either, while

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Speaker 1: everybody else suffers from unemployment, from disease, from death. I'm

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Speaker 1: just maybe I don't know, um from the fact that

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Speaker 1: you know, people that's working in my factories are being

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Speaker 1: reprimanded and extra size and eventually fired if they speak truths.

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Speaker 1: That's what it feels like to me. And and that's

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Speaker 1: a whole other conversation in itself, because I just really

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Speaker 1: want to Yeah, I don't know that, just like I'm

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Speaker 1: really thinking about that now, y'all, because I'm sitting here

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Speaker 1: like trying to make a similarities and differences list in

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Speaker 1: my head, like what are what are the things that

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Speaker 1: those two segments of people who are interested in pioneering,

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Speaker 1: What are the differences between them? And what are the

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Speaker 1: similarities between them? Because I'm like, you know, what are they?

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Speaker 1: Of course, the resources and the access that you start

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Speaker 1: with this one thing. But you know, is it that

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Speaker 1: they're starting from a place of I care about this

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Speaker 1: thing happening rather than I care about being the person

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Speaker 1: to do it. I don't know. I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: can't speak for them, but you know, so I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna try to. But I do think that a lot

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Speaker 1: of the first that we talk about on the show

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Speaker 1: are like they start from a place where they just

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Speaker 1: want to do the thing because they care about it.

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Speaker 1: They're just I am passionate about it. It I I

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Speaker 1: want to do it, But me being the person to

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Speaker 1: do it is just because it's not it's not from

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Speaker 1: a place of as much ego, right, And it doesn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily matter that they are the one to do it,

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Speaker 1: and they might not even be equipped to be the

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Speaker 1: ones to do it. That's the other thing. Like these

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Speaker 1: guys know, they got the metal, the hunks of junk

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Speaker 1: into the space, but like these these women that we

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Speaker 1: talked about in Female First, like they they aren't necessarily equipped,

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Speaker 1: Like they have to do a lot to get to

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Speaker 1: the point where they are even able to pursue the

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Speaker 1: things that they're thinking about. And it's it takes a

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Speaker 1: lot of metal, right, well, I mean a majority of

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Speaker 1: the women that we've talked about, or those um that

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Speaker 1: we have discussed, are doing it out of survival, whether

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Speaker 1: it's to get to a certain point, to be in

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Speaker 1: a certain point in that career, or because they want

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Speaker 1: to help others, or because they feel like this is

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Speaker 1: something that they have to prove they can do because

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Speaker 1: they're being told they can't because again, you're a marginalized woman,

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Speaker 1: you can't do this type of conversation. And that is

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Speaker 1: vastly different from Hey, I have billions of dollars and

430
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 1: instead of helping someone, I just want to go to

431
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: space for thirty seconds and you know, cool, you like it,

432
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 1: you like my you like my racket. Not over compensating

433
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 1: at all. But yeah, I think that's a giant difference

434
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 1: in a majority of the people that we talk about,

435
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 1: and not that again, it's not all about having to

436
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 1: prove a point or do all of these things. And

437
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: and if they want to do that thing, sure you,

438
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 1: they are their own individual. Good luck. I hope everything

439
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: works out for you. But I think the bigger conversation

440
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: is who is benefiting from what you are doing? And essentially,

441
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 1: when we look at these females, first, and we talked

442
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 1: about it. They took down some barriers in order to

443
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: get to there, and they went through so many hardships

444
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: to get to there, and that's the big conversation. And

445
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 1: even when they did, it's to this day it still

446
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 1: hasn't changed that much, where it's still that difficult for

447
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: someone who may be similar in ethnicity or in gender

448
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 1: to try to do the same things and they still

449
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: can't do it, or they still can't be acknowledge for

450
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 1: trying to do it. Like that's that's part of the

451
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 1: problem in this conversation is I know there was a

452
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 1: couple of times where when we were talking about some

453
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,239
Speaker 1: of the women that I'm like, oh my god, we're

454
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 1: still struggling and trying to acknowledge that this has changed.

455
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: Why are we still here? It's like, oh, very familiar.

456
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 1: Why are we asking whether this thing written two years

457
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 1: ago was written today exactly? And I think that's called

458
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 1: part of that is that these struggles that many of

459
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: the women that we want to acknowledge, or many of

460
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: those that we wouldn't acknowledge that have changed so many things,

461
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: unfortunately hasn't changed things. We want to acknowledge them because

462
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: what they did was powerful, but we're still fighting. And

463
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: then that's where I get the most frustrated is every

464
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 1: time we feel I feel like there is something that

465
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,360
Speaker 1: takes two steps forward, there's another thing that takes three

466
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 1: steps back, and you kind of like what happened? I

467
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: thought we were doing so well. Yeah, that's a good

468
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 1: point because it's it does almost feel again going back

469
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 1: to the kind of the caveat of you were the

470
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: first woman or the first woman of um x y

471
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: Z ethnicity, is it feels like it's almost saying, we

472
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 1: allowed this to happen. Now stop, Okay, that's cool. First right, like, okay,

473
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: you've done it, back off, this is our space. And

474
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: then you have the same issues continuing over hundreds of years.

475
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,399
Speaker 1: And I do think that going back to what you

476
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 1: were saying, Samantha, of the the obstacles a lot of

477
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: marginalized people face when they get the first whether it

478
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: was the first or not, but the one that is

479
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 1: recorded that I'm not saying that there are not women

480
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 1: out there who are devious and do just want history.

481
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 1: That doesn't even have to be devious, but you know,

482
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 1: want that recognition of being remembered in history. You know,

483
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: like I want to be the first. That doesn't feel

484
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: to me like there's an extra layer of determination that

485
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: usually eyes care or passion, whereas if you're just a

486
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: rich white dude and you're like, I want to go

487
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 1: to space. Not the same. And also the feedback, the

488
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: instant feedback that you get nowadays, is very different. What

489
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: a lot of those people didn't get recognition in their day,

490
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 1: and the recognition was different. The recognition wasn't via social

491
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: media and like, because there's a lot of gratification that

492
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: you get through that um and it wasn't on a

493
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: global scale either. Like the access that we have in

494
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: communication and worldwide global communication is a lot different. Now

495
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: there's some of the people we've talked about, of course

496
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: some were more recent, but it's different. You get another

497
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: level of path on the back. Well, you know. And

498
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about this because as we have done the

499
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 1: women around the world trying to acknowledge just women doing

500
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: significant things, whether it's being activists in something specific or

501
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: if they're generally doing something with science or whatever. It's

502
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 1: really interesting to me that the people that always pop

503
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: up are the celebrities, are those who we already know.

504
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 1: So I feel like half of the women that we've

505
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: talked about with the female first, even if they did

506
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: exist today with the social media, still wouldn't get half

507
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: the accolades that celebrities and those who do nonsensical I'm

508
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: trying to be sensitive here, just whatever, whether it's people

509
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: are getting more acknowledgement for acting and then saying a

510
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 1: controversial statement than a person who has been struggling within

511
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: their community as a marginalized person, whether they are of

512
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: a different uh, if their trans or if there you

513
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 1: know any of those people, or are scientists, are female

514
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 1: scientists trying to make change. It's really hard to dig

515
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 1: up that information and kind of like what you're talking

516
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: about the Wikipedia even today, it's like, why don't they

517
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 1: they just did this huge thing and they have three

518
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: sentences to their names. I don't understand. I need more information.

519
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: Where can I find this information? But that's kind of

520
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: that same level today that yeah, these women did some

521
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: amazing things and historically has been finally on Earth where

522
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 1: we can do a show or a segment and actually

523
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about what they did. But to

524
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: the level of what we see as popular or what

525
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: does go viral, it's like, why what was happening. Why

526
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: I don't get it. It's that algorithm, and I wonder

527
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: about how many more times in this universe in the future. Well,

528
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: we go through this ordeal where we're like, oh wait,

529
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: we thought a guy did this on his own, but

530
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: there was a woman who was there, who who was working,

531
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: um to make this thing happen. I can only imagine,

532
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: Like it sucks to think about, but you know, we've

533
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: heard those stories a lot before. We were like, oh wait,

534
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: this thing that we thought we knew about, and this

535
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: guy that we thought made this discovery, there was actually

536
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: a woman who was very uh integral and all of

537
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: this been making this happen. I mean, it kind of

538
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: happened with the hashtag meto stuff in fact that a

539
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: white woman came out and put it and she made

540
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,719
Speaker 1: it viral. Sure, but she didn't create it, but everybody

541
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: wants to acknowledge her as the creator when it was like, no, no,

542
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: this black woman has been on this for like ten years.

543
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: You just put it on Twitter. What's happening? Why you know?

544
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: And the fact that it took another year to undo

545
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: that and be like, hey, you gotta learned to give credit,

546
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: which you know, we've talked about that a lot is

547
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: like oftentimes how it's miscredited so quickly and so fast. Yeah,

548
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: And I just want people to I want people to

549
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: know that your personal histories are important to like your

550
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: personal histories, your family who like you, live in the country.

551
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: You know, your grandma was always on the ports telling stories.

552
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: You know, you you thought they were fantastical, or you know,

553
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: you thought that you weren't that interesting and you didn't

554
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: deserve you don't deserve to be in history books. You know,

555
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: we tell ourselves a lot of lies about who we

556
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: are as individuals and his families and our value in

557
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: the world. And all of these people who we've talked

558
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: about out so far are just normal people. You have

559
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: fascinating things in your histories too, and they deserve to

560
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: be remembered. And you know, I think that I don't

561
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: know if people call it duty our obligation, but it's

562
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: something that's worth considering and thinking about as we go

563
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: through our lives. Just acknowledging the things that are in

564
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: our personal histories as grand as grand as the things

565
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: that are in the history books that you read about.

566
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: You know, you deserve to be immortalized in textbooks that

567
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: are bound and laminated as well, Like you know, we

568
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: care about those things we're talking I'm talking about all

569
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: these women who have families that are still living that

570
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, and I know that it feels so

571
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: far away sometimes, But there are first in your story

572
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: too that you may not know about and that you

573
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: may know about, and if you do have them and

574
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: you know them, like that is a think of that

575
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: as a privilege. You know, share those things, write them

576
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: down and you're you might have kids, you can share

577
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: them with our net use or nieces or whatever who

578
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: will be like okays, whatever whatever. But I mean, you know,

579
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: that's always a struggle, like trying to get the used

580
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: to understand importance that you um but I just know

581
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: that you know that's important too in these stories. I

582
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: feel like and I hope that all the people that

583
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: we've talked about in the series have helped you understand

584
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: that they were normal, average, They were still human beings.

585
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: You know, they had to go use the bathroom to

586
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: write and as in fact a lot of them didn't

587
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: know that their history would be talked about, like they

588
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: died thinking that they felt a lot that That's kind

589
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,479
Speaker 1: of that conversation of like giving flowers while while they

590
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: can um after the fact. But yeah, a lot of Again,

591
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: there's a lot that you don't know how you've impacted

592
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: with two others. And I try to keep thinking of that,

593
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: Like I remember having all those bad moments in my

594
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: social workist Like, all I'm doing is making sure kids

595
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: are alive today. So that's the end of it. But

596
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is you never really know

597
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: what you've said, what you've done, what you have influenced,

598
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: Whether there is a small conversation that's helps someone have

599
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: a bigger idea that could save who knows, a whole

600
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: generation of people who are stuffing through something that we

601
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: don't know about. Yeah, yeah, it opens on us something

602
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: something Matt and I were recently talking about grief and

603
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: how you never know after you're gone, like the little

604
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: things that you did, how they impacted a bunch of people.

605
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: And oftentimes Yeah, I was I was really bad about

606
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: um being that kid who is annoyed with my grandparents,

607
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: And now I'm like, they were so cool, Why didn't I? Yeah, yeah,

608
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: And I do think I think that's a really beautiful

609
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: sentiment because there's so much history that's lost when it

610
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: just comes to yeah, what was everyday life like for

611
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,479
Speaker 1: a person, because we all do experience things in slightly

612
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: different ways, at least slightly differently, um a lot of

613
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: times much differently. But in having that record and knowing

614
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: that these were lives people lived and these were the

615
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: things that they dealt with can really help us when

616
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: we're looking back, like, Okay, I don't want to think,

617
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: you know, the eight hundreds is still applicable today, Like

618
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: how can we change that? And I think if we

619
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 1: did take the time to listen to people who maybe

620
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: aren't historically like the first but like record their stories

621
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: and preserve them and listen to them, that it would

622
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: hopefully help us either like learn and move on or

623
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: slowly move on as it seems to be our even

624
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: just have people feel like, oh, yeah, I'm not alone,

625
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: because I do think that is a huge that's really

626
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: important is to think, Okay, I'm not doing anything wrong,

627
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: I'm not alone, like the other people had similar experiences

628
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 1: to me. And I think, how long will these stories

629
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: that we're telling, these female first that were introducing the

630
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: people are, you know, letting people know more about how

631
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: long would they be true? Like I see like like

632
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 1: it's a really fair point about you saying like this

633
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: is the first recorded that I will put it there

634
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: because I'm like, in what way can I fact check

635
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: fact check that? Um, And I just have to believe

636
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: that it is, like I don't have a way to

637
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 1: fact check it, so not in any way where I

638
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,439
Speaker 1: can go back and know that there wasn't another person

639
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: who was already there who did this thing in some instances,

640
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 1: And I feel like, now coming back to just after

641
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: we're having this conversation that feels like a blessing and

642
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: a curse where it's like, oh, it sucks because there's

643
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: so much that we don't know and we don't have

644
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: access to and that wasn't told and that was purposefully

645
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: kept under wraps. At at the same time, that might

646
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: mean that there is another amazing story that has to

647
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: be told, and that feels exciting. So I feel like

648
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: maybe I should stay on the optimistic side of it if, like,

649
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: you know, maybe this first won't be the first for forever,

650
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: but that also means that there's opportunity for someone else

651
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: to get shine, and that there's also the possibility of

652
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: somebody else being recognized, somebody else, you know, being loved

653
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 1: on and somebody else getting flowers, and somebody else just

654
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: having a little bit more of their story to continue

655
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: to exist in the world after they're gone, right, Yeah,

656
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: but play stop unwerthing those mummies, y'all. Quit it, quit

657
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: it all right, yeah, I think and and going with

658
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: all of that, I love that we get to discover

659
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: new things and talk about new things, and it is fascinating.

660
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: Stop with the mummies for real, though. But there's also

661
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: something to be said about the fact that legacy has

662
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: become too big of an iconic idea of what you're

663
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: leaving behind. I think what you were talking about, what

664
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: you were talking about the individual finding themselves and or

665
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: knowing that you may be doing something bigger than you know.

666
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,720
Speaker 1: And just because it doesn't sound like that other person

667
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you're not leaving something behind. And the legacy

668
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: is just an individual thing. Whether it's you left it

669
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: to your daughter, you left it to your son, and

670
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: you left it to your friend, you left it to

671
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: the nice You know that the fact that you're being

672
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 1: remembered that is a legacy and that's a good thing.

673
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 1: And the fact that if you're developing and if you're

674
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: having good relationships, that is a legacy and it is

675
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: a beautiful thing and you have no idea what that

676
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: turns into. You just decolonized legacy, check a checkism. I

677
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: give you a chance. I love it. Yeah, that I

678
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: think that really resonates with me. I remember once I

679
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: had a I had a job where I was just

680
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 1: kind of I was trying to catalog this language so

681
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: it didn't get completely lost, and somebody gave me this

682
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: great advice and they're like, just go sit, just go

683
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: sit and listen to people and like talk to them

684
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: and share their stories. And it was so beautiful. It

685
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 1: was such a beautiful experience and people were so giving,

686
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: and I think that's something we forget. I did that

687
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: with my own father, or once I was it was

688
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: his school assignment and I was supposed to interview him

689
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: about it and I just like I didn't want to

690
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 1: do it and I hated it. But when I did,

691
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,919
Speaker 1: it was really interesting, like a lot of the things

692
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: that I got answers that I didn't know, and I

693
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: was like, oh, and I could connect with him. Was

694
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: like at the time, I was so into Green Day

695
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: and he was talking about being like Billy Joe. I

696
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,919
Speaker 1: shouldn't say this because many people know this. I'm gonna

697
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 1: stick Champagne. I did, Okay, tiers to that keep going,

698
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: But yeah, you don't know what you'll uncover. And I

699
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 1: think that's one thing that I've been thinking about a

700
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: lot lately, is just asking people the question, like taking

701
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: the time and thought and you it doesn't have to

702
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: be this big, amazing thing, but it can tell you

703
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: a lot about history and connection, and it can be

704
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: something that just for some reason means so much to you,

705
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: and that can be like a legacy that you remember

706
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: when someone is gone. Yeah. Yeah. Also, I had a

707
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 1: panic attack as a child, and I know this is

708
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: extremely ridiculous, um, and my mom was like, what was

709
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 1: going on? And she I said, what if one day

710
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: I can't watch Star Wars and it's gone. It's just

711
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: been erased. And that is one of the reasons I

712
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 1: rewatch it all the time, so that in case it disappears,

713
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: I can just play it in my head. Um. So

714
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: there's some type of fear around legacy that I can

715
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 1: unpack it myself later. Um. But there's a horror movie.

716
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a genre, but it's kind of

717
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: something that happens in horror movies. A lot that really

718
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: terrifies me. It's kind of related and not related, but

719
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: it's when somebody accomplishes something or does something or learn

720
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,879
Speaker 1: something and then there they get killed or they get

721
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,879
Speaker 1: trapped and you never find out about it. And there's

722
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: something about that like not knowing um like or like

723
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:21,919
Speaker 1: they can't tell you. And then a lot of times

724
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: it's a situation where somebody is rising to power and

725
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: then they kill someone and that person knowss like when

726
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: they're up to and then it's too late and they're

727
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: stealing and there in a power position. And anyway, this

728
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 1: is I've never thought about that before. It's a real

729
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: anxiety that I have. Um. I used to be that

730
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: way with Anastasia. I was a strange child, like no

731
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: one will ever know what happened Anastasia like interject with

732
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: I'm a strange that the very strange apparently, but I

733
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 1: just find that I don't know why. But I've been

734
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 1: thinking about that. This whole conversation of just that kind

735
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 1: of it makes me sad and also like scared in

736
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: a way to think of these stories that have just

737
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: been lost and we might not ever recover. Yeah, but

738
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 1: they think if I can make you feel any better

739
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: hands I turned this into an intervention pleas about me.

740
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: The Champagne is perfect intervention. They still happened. Memory isn't

741
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 1: the only thing that matters, Like, of course it's important,

742
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,800
Speaker 1: but the people who lived at the same time, and

743
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: and we're able to acknowledge them at the same time,

744
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: and even if that didn't happen, because we know a

745
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 1: lot of times they weren't completely acknowledged, and we're doing

746
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: things in very siloed ways that they might have still

747
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 1: been fulfilled. They might have still been fulfilled, and the

748
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: things they did still happened even if they weren't acknowledged,

749
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: for which I feel like it's a bitter pill to

750
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: swallow because it's like, oh God, another white man took

751
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: credit for something. Fine, but they still did it, and

752
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: it's okay, it's okay, it's okay. To feel better, I

753
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: guess it's it's also and we're getting into really deep

754
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: territory now, so we might want to veer out, but

755
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: it's it's also something that I think a lot of

756
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: us struggle with and I've been struggling with of like

757
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: how upsetting it would be to be misremembered and you

758
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: can't do anything about it. M M. And this is

759
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 1: part of the horror movie thing that I'm talking about.

760
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,919
Speaker 1: It's a lot of times it's like, not only were

761
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: they killed and then this evil person rised power, they're

762
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,720
Speaker 1: misremembered and painted. It's like, oh, he was the trader

763
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:48,280
Speaker 1: all along. I wondered about that when we talk about

764
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: the first serial color Bathroom, and I'm like, the question

765
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:55,879
Speaker 1: maybe that she was more just a woman in power.

766
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 1: They just wanted to ruin her reputation, and that's what

767
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 1: we know of her today. That's killer who killed women

768
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 1: or young girls and virgins for their blood and bade

769
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: them their blood. That was that whole reference. But it's like,

770
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: what did that really happen? Or was it because they

771
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: were just afraid of a woman in power? Well that's

772
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: kind of one of the joys of storytelling to you know, right.

773
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I know that's that isn't that'sn't really practical,

774
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 1: But if you think about it, that's what we do.

775
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 1: We sensation a lot of things, whether that's one way

776
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 1: or the other, and so I don't know, I get

777
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: it like we can vary. I feel like it can

778
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: definitely enter ha geography. Territory. With a lot of these

779
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: women we talked to her, it's like we just exalt

780
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 1: and praise them, not really having known their character, not

781
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 1: at least personally, Like we have things that are documented

782
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: that are like first person things that are documented which

783
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: are often also not true, which is the thing that

784
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,399
Speaker 1: comes up a lot, like when we're reading their biographies,

785
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:58,320
Speaker 1: they don't you know, they don't tell the truths about themselves.

786
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 1: At some said with these feomlet first, it's been like

787
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 1: age age is a big thing that people who I

788
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: about they're like, yeah, I was born this year, or

789
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: they're just very lax about when they were or sometimes

790
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: they just don't know as well. But it's that's a

791
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 1: very strange thing when you're reading about people in the past.

792
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it's that's okay in a way

793
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 1: because I don't know. I guess that's meat speaking as

794
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: a storyteller, where it's like, yeah, we can, Yeah, it's

795
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 1: it's cool to like, you know, embellish. It's also a

796
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: Black tradition embellish stories. So I feel like that might

797
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,919
Speaker 1: be part of my reasoning as well, Like that's also

798
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 1: a very country thing to do, like up growing up

799
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 1: in LJ that was a thing, Like everything was like

800
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: grander and or larger than people say, Like, right, that

801
00:43:50,920 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: doesn't make yeah, yeah, I got I'm cool with that part,

802
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: you know, do you're exaggerate all the way. I just

803
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 1: don't want to be remembered as a murderer when true.

804
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: It's already so hard to tell the difference between what's

805
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: real and what's not on the internet. Like how many

806
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 1: memes have you seen that are attributed to the wrong people? Right?

807
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,879
Speaker 1: Are just unknown quotes that are for a specific person,

808
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 1: or quotes we don't know who they were attributed to

809
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 1: and people attributed them to them, and people who know

810
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 1: that those quotes aren't for that person but will share

811
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 1: a mean anyways, Like things are gonna be so confusing

812
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: in the future, and communication is already going to be

813
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 1: so difficult because there is a time difference between where

814
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 1: we are now and wherever that person may be in

815
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: the future. Stuff, Right, it's just going to get even

816
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: more complicated. I mean, as we talk about it, things

817
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 1: changing and being misrepresented definitely, Like with the AI stuff.

818
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,399
Speaker 1: The Bourdain documentary just came out, and the big controversies

819
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: that they used AI essentially to piece together because memoirs

820
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: and everybody's like, what y yeah, and things like deep fakes. Yeah,

821
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,800
Speaker 1: that that honestly freaks me out kind of scary. So

822
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: you're right, Oh yeah, let's return to that one at

823
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 1: a later date. Yeah, let's do that. We started at

824
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: the positive place. Yes, we we were on a very windy,

825
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 1: windy road, countries as very seasonal changes all throughout. Some

826
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 1: some clouds, darkness, yes, lots of colors, fall leaves, followed

827
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: by some gray, lots of gray. We talked about murder, drugs,

828
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: all kind of things. So this has been a lovely conversation.

829
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: Anything else you want to add? No, I think we

830
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: ran the gamut, so we really Is it time for

831
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: a bite of cheesecakes? I think it is so cheers y'all, cheers.

832
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: The twenty five plus episodes, um and too many more

833
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 1: and too many more, and the cheesecake and cheesecakes, it's

834
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: falling them out. Does anybody want to describe the cheesecake?

835
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:21,280
Speaker 1: M let me move away, Okay, okay, satisfying, m sweet

836
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: but not too sweet, little kind of vanilla. Right, It's

837
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 1: not like I don't feel like my teeth are going

838
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 1: to fall out after I'm done with this, Give me

839
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: a minute, though, I really love the whip cream. I'm

840
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 1: a really big fan of whipped cream and strawberries or

841
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 1: strawberries involved. So the strawberries are fresh. Strawberries's important, that's important.

842
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: Speaking of whipped cream, I used to eat whipped cream

843
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: out of the like cool whip tub when it's frozen

844
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 1: from the freezer. Frozen. I don't do that, but not frozen. Okay,

845
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 1: so yes, I'm on the same plane. I'm also a

846
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: whip cream fan. Well, I'm so glad we finally made

847
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: this happen. Whether it's the twenty or not, we shall

848
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: say it is. Oh, so what do we do for

849
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 1: the fifty which is probably like ten episodes to be honest, Well,

850
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: across that bridge when we get a double size to

851
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 1: cheesecakes personal cheesecake for me? Okay, there we go. Okay, Well,

852
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 1: this has been a delightful conversation. Thanks as always Eaves

853
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,240
Speaker 1: for joining us, Thank you for having me as always

854
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 1: as well. Be yes the absolute best to Where can

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00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: the listeners find you? I'm at Eves Jeff Cote on

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00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 1: Twitter at not Apologizing on Instagram. You can also listen

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00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: to me on this day in history class. You can

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00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 1: go back and listen to a whole archive of a

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00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: whole bunch of episodes that have cool biographies there too,

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00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 1: and events that happen in history and unpopular Yes, and

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00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,720
Speaker 1: you should do that to listeners if you haven't already.

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00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 1: Also ish episodes of this show. How do I always

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00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: forget to say that? No worries And if you would

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00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: like to contact as you can or email all this

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Speaker 1: stuff India mom Stuff at i heeart media dot com.

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00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast

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00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: or on Instagram and stuff I've Never told you. Thanks

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00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: as always to our super producer Christina, who is here live. Yes, yes,

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00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening. Sorry that we're eating

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00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 1: peu secake and you don't have any anyway. Stephone every

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00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 1: guilde's protection of I Heart Radio. For more podcast from

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00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 1: i heeart Radio is the I Heart Radio app, Apple

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00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows