WEBVTT - Ep3: Mob Hits and the H-E-B 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:03.880 Class Action is a production of I Heart Radio and 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:09.399 Sound Argument. To give you a little background on South 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:12.760 Dakota geography, you have what you call about two urban areas. 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:16.840 Sioux Falls. You've been the Sioux Falls. That's the big city. 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:19.840 It's a small city or a big town, but it's 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:23.000 the big urban area of South Dakota. That's where about 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:26.280 a quarter of the population is. And then out west 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:31.960 you have Rapid City that's about eighty people. I grew 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:34.880 up in Rep City, South Dakota. It was nice. It 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:39.040 was pretty relaxed. Not a lot went on, so I 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:40.720 don't mean to make it sound like it was boring, 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:45.720 but it was definitely very yeah, just very relaxed. My 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:48.920 dad is the general manager for RDIO Equipment, which is 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:52.960 a John Deer dealership, and my mom drives school buses 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:55.639 for the Rep City School system. But she's done a 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.480 ton of stuff throughout her life. I grew up in 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:01.480 a family of five, my mom and my dad, and 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:04.120 I have an older sister who's thirty and a younger 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:07.920 brother who just turned twenty two. I'm the oldest of 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:11.880 nine children, so I have eight younger siblings, and I've 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:17.520 always had this role model slash lookout for them, and 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:19.800 I want to make sure that they're okay in life 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:22.840 and that they're doing the right things. So by being 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:24.720 a lawyer, I can apply that to other people. I 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:29.319 can look out for other people. But the cultural divide 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:33.840 in South Dakota is like East River West River. That's 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:38.160 more ranching out there to seem more like cowboy hats 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:41.480 and that kind of stuff. We're here it's more farming, 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:46.040 so it's a little bit different culture. I mean, where 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:49.440 I'm from, it's considered one of the big towns. You 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:53.120 got about, you know, seven eight towns within that fifteen 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:59.040 to twenty thousand, and then every place else is pretty ruled. 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.760 I'm a listener as opposed to being the first to speak. 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:07.040 I think people talk too much sometimes, and I think 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:08.840 we miss a lot of stuff and we're talking, so 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:11.920 I'd kind of rather listen and take everything in and 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:17.040 then then add in an opinion. I'm a first generation lawyer, 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:19.280 so no and my family has gone to law school, 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:22.079 so this has been a fun kind of new adventure 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:26.120 for all of us. I guess I'm also Catholic, and 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:28.639 I am really involved in my faith. I think it's 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:33.160 important to do that work through the criminal justice system. 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.760 And also I'm Native American and here in South Dakota 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:39.880 there's a lot of issues, especially on the western side 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:45.120 of the state, with Native Americans and their treatment over 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:49.440 the years and their problems that they struggle with. My 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:53.160 parents had to see a bankruptcy lawyer at one point 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:57.440 and ultimately saved their house. So that's something that really 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:01.320 stuck with me when I was pretty young. So I 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:04.560 started working when I was as soon as I can 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:08.720 apply for a work license in Iowa. I started off 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:13.000 by a detasseling corn. I did that every summer until 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:16.200 I was old enough to get an actual job. Then 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:18.840 you've got Vermillion here. It's about ten thousand people, but 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:22.280 Vermilion it's pretty much just a college town. I think 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:28.120 the population doubles when the college gets here. So I 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:30.960 went to undergrad at the University of South Dakota. So 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:32.560 by the time all of a sudden done, I have 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.440 spent seven years in this town and on this campus, 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:39.560 and I can't tell you how much I'm dreading leaving Vermillion. 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:44.240 It has truly become home. I mean South Dakota culture 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:48.200 in general. People are nice, they're reserved. You don't see 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:51.600 a ton of characters are big, colorful personalities like you 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:55.800 do in the city. Yeah, they're very conservative. People don't 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:58.640 have the most open minded world view generally because it's 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:00.640 a small state. You're not a round a lot. But 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:04.480 I think people have good intentions here. They're good people. 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:07.920 I mean, nobody's really going to spin in your face 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:14.840 and slam the door on you. We are the state's 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:19.159 law school. Laura Rose, the feisty University of South Dakota coach, 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:23.360 has already uploaded the fact pattern to her entire team. 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:25.000 There was a quote that my dad used to use 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:27.280 at Stetson when he was running their program. He used 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:29.120 to tell people that when I send you out to 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:31.680 a competition, I am putting the reputation of my school 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:36.400 in your hands. If you drop the reputation in my school, 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:37.800 I will cut your hands off. Now he can get 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:39.839 away with that because he's a twenty two year military veteran. 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:43.240 Law school mock trial season it's like a hurricane and 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:46.640 it's fast approaching. Here's the deal. I'm not going to 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:48.440 cut your hands off, but we're gonna have to talk. 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:52.760 Tryouts are over, the team is hand picked. Classes are 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:56.599 already in full swing. The law school grind. It's on, 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.880 but you're in a competition setting. There is no time 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:04.000 to be Midwest night. I love South Dakota, Nicce and 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.599 Midwest nights. One of my favorite things about this area 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:08.360 of the country is how polite people are and how 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:10.599 much people care about other people. But you know where 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:12.920 it doesn't have a place in a courtroom. We're here 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:15.080 to argue. We're here to argue about facts. You are 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:17.000 not my friend, you're not my enemy. I don't have 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:21.359 to cut your throat precisely most of them. Dozens of 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:25.680 schools around the country are preparing for the fall invitational tournaments, 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:28.520 were second and third year law students get a chance 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:32.480 to compete before the big national competition start in the spring. 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:35.120 But I do have to make sure that you're following 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:37.000 through with what it is that I need done. And 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:38.640 I do have to make sure that you're complying with 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:40.279 the rules, and I do have to make sure that 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.880 I am not in an attempt to be kind and 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:48.440 to be polite, actually giving away points of argumentation. I'm 0:05:48.520 --> 0:06:07.440 Katie Fang, and this is Class Action Episode three, Mob 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:11.599 Hits and the H E. B. Tyler. You look confused, 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:15.279 what's up? It's eight am, and everyone is working together 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:19.560 to build an air tight case. Picture an old fashioned 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:22.920 barn raising on the prairie. Only this barn is called 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:29.800 together with arguments and legal strategy. Nicky owed two dollars. 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.279 Nick's a bad guy, he's a drug user, a lot 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:35.880 of problems that you can attack his credibility. And then 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.880 you also got the bartender who's a good witness. He's 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.679 lost doing a very credible kid, and he was saying 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:45.479 Tommy is peaceful. Tommy's a very peaceful guy and he's generous. 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:48.480 Oh three, you all made faces when he said the 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:50.960 word peaceful. Why did we make faces? Justin? Did you 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:53.159 say peaceful in your opening? What have you done? You've 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:56.760 opened the door to character evidence, character evidence, but you 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:58.320 don't know it because you're a baby too, all right. 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:01.160 If you get a criminal fact pack, there is an 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:05.440 instinctive desire to start to humanize your client, which you 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:07.760 can do. But you've got to watch the adjectives because 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.520 if I say he's peaceful, and if there's any evidence 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:12.920 that he's not, what am I doing? I am giving 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:15.200 the state attorney the moment. I am giving brain in 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.080 the moment to get up and go Hey, you just 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:20.480 said that you love peace and love. It all happens 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:22.680 if you were in the freaking mob. You were you 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:25.080 you were doing this right, you were with these people, 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:30.040 you were doing this. You're giving the opportunity to pounce. Yeah, 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:34.400 that's the business he was in. So he's he's not 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:36.360 gonna go full wive guy. He's not going to be 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:37.880 a made man. He's not going to burn the car 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:41.480 to the saint in his hands. Case file Commonwealth versus 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:45.320 Santa Suso a mock trial case torn out of the 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:49.320 script of a Grizzly mafia murder story. It's a movie 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:53.720 plot and one you may be familiar with. I've always 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:56.280 wanted to do a mob case and there's not really been, 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:59.160 ever been one that's done at any level of mock trial. 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.480 My name is Philip Pascua alo Um, the trial competition 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:06.600 director at the Director University Thomas Arkline School of Law 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:10.239 and the tournament director for the Battle of the Experts. 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.280 So the Battle of the Experts is a national mock 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:18.560 trial competition where sixteen law schools compete to be the 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:22.280 national champion of the Battle of the Experts. So this 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:25.440 Fear's case is loosely based on the plot of good films, 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:28.360 change the names of the characters and then their stories 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:30.400 is slightly different than what you'd see in the movie. 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.280 For lots of reasons. I hope not on one we're 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:35.240 going to clear there. I think Marty's got bigger things 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:36.800 to do and then and then read our case file. 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:38.280 But I hope he reads it. That would be excellent. 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:41.800 There's a classic scene where the character played by Joe 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:45.880 Pesci is insulted in a bar and he and the 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:49.840 character played by Radiota killed that person killed. That character. 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:56.839 Character's name is Billy Batts. It's still my favorite mob 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:01.280 movie for sure. Nothing has come close. My name is Elijnig. 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:04.480 I spent fourteen years as a prosecutor, but yes, I 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.360 spent most of my career in the Southern District of 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:11.680 New York indicting, prosecuting, and trying real life New York 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:16.760 City mobsters. That is a great murder scenario for a 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:21.280 mock trial, because it's not your obvious, premeditated murder that 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:23.880 was not supposed to happen. When they're done beating him 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:27.040 to death, I think the de Niro character sort of 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:30.560 says to the Pesci character, would you do I think 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:32.880 that's a great scenario because then you have to argue 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:36.760 things like intent and premeditation and what degree of murder 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.240 are we in here? Is it manslaughter? Is it murder? 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.079 So that's a good scenario because I think there are 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:46.400 arguments to be made, but you're getting into trickier issues 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:49.280 that would be argued at a real trial. The purpose 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:52.199 of mock trial, I think this to get kids interested 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:54.760 in this, to get students wanting to do this in 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:56.560 their future careers. And if what are you gonna do, 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.520 Try some boring fraud case that's based on tax law 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:01.920 and account no, give him an interesting case, Give them 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:03.959 an exciting case, Give him something out of a movie, 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:09.800 and that will spark their interest. Laura Rose has hand 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.880 picked four of her top students to argue this case. 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:17.800 Bailey Moore that and Justin Peter Right will defend Tommy 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:23.800 Santa Suso. What happens is this guy, William Cafierre, we 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:26.360 call him Billy. Billy goes to a bar. He gets 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:28.839 out of jail and he kind of needs to re 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:34.840 establish his boss presence, and Tommy Santa Suso and Nickpatrick arrived. 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:38.480 Everyone knows each other, but Tommy's trying to get out 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:42.080 of the mafia. He's still in the mafia, but Tommy 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:45.520 just wants to be respected, because who doesn't want to 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:49.400 be Brandon Hodeck and Bill Murray. Not that Bill Murray 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:52.880 will prosecute Tommy. When I first read this fact pattern, 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:56.160 for example, I thought the state slightly had the edge, 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:59.199 and then I kept reading it, and then I thought 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:01.640 the defense was gonna blow us out of the water. 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:04.480 And then I kept reading it and I realized, maybe 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:07.559 the state actually has the better case. And so when 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:10.800 Billy starts shoving in his face that Houston your chauffeur, 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:14.960 Tommy gets mad. They start a brawl, and after this 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:19.079 bar fight, then it's only Nick and Billy, and that's 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:21.360 all we really know from there. That's what we know 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:23.280 for sure. They walk out of the bar together, and 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:26.200 you know that Billy's dead. It's just kind of always 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:30.240 work in progress. It's important never to get too in 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:33.920 love with a certain theme or theory, because you can 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:37.599 always think of something that completely derails everything that you 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:41.160 just built. The rest of the team is spread out 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:43.760 in the peanut gallery of the law schools practice court, 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:48.599 firing pot shots at the new case as going through it, 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:53.320 Does it make sense? Does it make sense with what 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:58.079 you read and what questions leading as you're hearing for 0:11:58.160 --> 0:11:59.880 the first time, Tell me what you're thinking about. So 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:02.600 I texted Bailey this as well, But it probably goes 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:05.800 both ways. The knife is under the assumption that it's 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:09.040 the mother's knife, a knight that she regularly uses, So 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.280 where's her prince? On the other flip side, though the 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:16.000 prosecution say the knife is wiped, there's no prince now 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:19.679 because they're trying to cover it up. Yeah, this might 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:21.240 be a stretch, but I was gonna say, who's to 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:23.600 say that when he left the far the first time, 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:28.520 he didn't take Nicky's car If his car is parked 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:31.200 there but further away, he could have taken Nikki's car 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:36.199 or I don't remember what I was thinking he did. 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:38.760 He still didn't go back to the bar, which is 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:42.320 where Tommy's car would have been. So even if you 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:44.520 were to have taken him back to his car and 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:47.640 not home, the cell phone records still don't show that. 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:56.920 I do. I can't say it's comfortable. It's definitely not comfortable. 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:01.520 You put a lot of work into theory in your case, 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:05.880 and then it's easy to kind of get upset when 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:08.679 someone tries to pull holes in it. Though it's a 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:15.400 team sport, it's can quickly feel very personal. So, Laura, 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:19.960 during boot camp, it looks as if you're taking all 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:22.640 of the students that you're working with and you're having 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:27.120 them hive mind this problem that they've been presented with. 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.320 Can you kind of walk us through that method and 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:34.080 that procedure and why you think it's effective to be 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.440 able to give them a foundation to work from. The 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:39.760 reason for the hive mind with the Battle of the 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:43.000 Expert's fact pattern in particular, came about for a few reasons. 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:45.240 Number One, it's a great way to knock the rust 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:47.000 off from the summer. It's a great way to get 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:49.320 started and get going and get everybody back to thinking 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:51.839 about those things. Number Two, it's a great way for 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.080 the students that are so deeply entrenched with the fact 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.560 pattern to realize, Hey, the thing that you thought was 0:13:56.679 --> 0:14:00.840 very clear isn't clear from your presentation That inference that 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:04.160 you thought was so obvious isn't actually as obvious as 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:08.640 you want to make it. Me, is it a good idea? 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:11.280 Because I'm just thinking about this and like, what Ma's 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.560 really saying here is if you can say that he 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:19.280 was here for these parts, say, are there some fuzzy inconsistencies, Yes, 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:23.240 but remember he's he's not a saint. He's a drug 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:25.960 addict and drug dealer. Was he high on heroin when 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:28.880 he was doing this? I don't know, But could you 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:33.760 know he's there enough to say, yeah, there's some inconsistencies. 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.680 But do we think he did it? Your reasonable members 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:39.120 of the jury, I'd say yes, and then just kind 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:42.440 of blur. So is it a combination of a confidence builder, 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:48.240 an ice breaker, a substantive dive into the law and 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.640 the evidence and the rules of procedure kind of all 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.680 in one. Yeah, it's it's everything. It's a kitchen saint 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:56.240 kind of approach. It's trial, and that's why it's wonderful 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:59.200 because you have to deal with the facts, the law, 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:03.480 the But Tommy, on the other hand, he's smart, he's methodical, 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:05.880 he knows what he's doing. But it's kind of ironic 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:09.280 that our star witness has all the things that make 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:15.200 him look like the bad guy in San Antonio. Jasmineal 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:19.760 Gain has finally managed to stream Martin Scorsese's mob classic 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:25.840 Good Fellas one of my favorites. Anyway, her St. Mary's 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:30.120 University teammates Andy Viscarra and Coldla they feel like it's 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:35.080 their legal obligation to break down the plot. Yeah, and 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:39.280 this movie, Tommy didn't. Yeah. But in the movie. Even 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.880 in the movie, I was like, I was like, oh, 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:51.400 so Tommy did it. He did it? Yeah, I was like, whoa, 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:55.880 that didn't happen. Not in our story. They're adding a 0:15:55.960 --> 0:16:02.040 third person up in this joy all right, I killed Billy. Yeah, 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:06.520 when he wants anybody there, that's a good can you 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:10.760 deserve that. I'm gonna pretend Jimmy saw me to morow 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:20.000 like die for this man. That's not very okay. Dury 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:24.000 remembers the dream. I'm sorry, I'm gonna start, but I'm 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.360 trying to really think about this. You're gonna get on 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:40.760 this vibe. I'm gonna kill Let me start that again. 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:45.000 I'm sorry that sounded weird. I'm gonna kill this bastard. 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:49.960 I'm gonna kill you, you fake tough guy. Those were 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:54.920 the last words that the defendant told Billy Cafilero the 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:59.640 night that he was murdered. It's a dark knight in Sienna, Pennsylvania. 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.280 And while walking on the street, you see a bar 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:06.040 to the right. It's called the Bamboo Lounge. And from 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:08.760 afar you think it's just a mom and pop little bar, 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:14.400 something quiet. But inside inside that bar is a whole 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:19.439 another story. Inside that bar, it's another world of people. 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:25.560 They have a code violence, drugs, money, and family above all. 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:30.560 Breaking that code means breaking that code can cost you 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:35.560 your life. They make money from prostitution, loan sharky, theft, 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:40.160 and extortion. Now, these families have a hierarchy. It goes 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:49.520 boss underboss, conciliaire, capos, associates and soldiers. And these are 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.040 the types of people that you will find the Bamboo 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:55.800 Lounge when you walk inside. The first person, so I 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:59.640 really like the story. That's Jason Goss. He's a St. 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:03.640 Mary's grad and a trial team legend, Jason tried cases 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.359 for the Bear County d a's office, but then he 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:08.720 left to join his old boss and take up for 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:11.639 the defense. Now, when you got towards the end, you 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:13.720 just started basically reading it, it was like blah blah blah, 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.840 da da da, something's never changed. In whatever spare time, 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:20.359 Jason manages to get he and his wife Maritza who's 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:24.920 expecting their first baby, coached the battle team. Sorry, I 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:26.240 feel like it goes too long, and I was boring 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:30.480 you guys. It is too long. But the only reason 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:32.280 is and the reason why it felt that way is 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:35.919 because you basically you did something that's it's kind of 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:38.440 rare and mock trial. You woa of all what the 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.840 witnesses we're going to say into the story, which is cool, 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:44.359 but you know, one of the things I noticed was 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:46.520 is you're talking about grab. You know, you had the knife, 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.880 you stabbed once, you stabbed twice, three times. You need 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.960 to talk about it like that. Right, he got the knife, 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:55.760 he stabbed him once, he stabbed him twice, He stabbed 0:18:55.800 --> 0:19:00.000 him three times, nine inches deep right into his heart. 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:04.520 Something like that. Drama at a little I like it. 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:09.679 Keep going. I'm jasmineal Green and I'm a three. Oh 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:16.960 uh not doing too well today. Uh. We have cold 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:20.359 brew just running through my veins right now. Probably gonna 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.280 get like two to three hours of sleep. Already. Told Andy, 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:25.639 you know she sees me tomorrow. She didn't see me 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:29.560 because the first two weeks I was dressing up nice 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:33.440 and tomorrow it's it's gonna be bad. And I'm working 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:35.720 on top of this, and I think that's what's killing 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:37.920 me because I don't have that extra free time. So 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:40.640 I don't know how Jasmine's living right now. I got 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.880 a sabbatical from my job because I physically could not 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:50.639 do everything. She's not human, she's not real. But but 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:53.399 my job keeps me saying like, when I'm there, I 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:56.160 love it. I'm not worried about anything. I'm like, I'm here, 0:19:56.640 --> 0:20:03.080 it's just wish there was more time in the week. So, Laura, 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:06.000 when you perceive from some of the students, the ones 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:08.320 that maybe you predict are going to have a struggle 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:10.920 after a law school, do you pivot a little bit 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:13.960 and maybe give a little bit more of yourself, maybe 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:15.840 a little bit more mentoring, maybe a little bit more 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:19.320 individualized attention to maybe get them more prepared for what 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:21.400 the real world quote unquote is going to be. Like, 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:23.760 I try to do that with all of my students 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:25.080 in all honesty, and it's one of the things that 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:27.639 I'm really fortunate with being here at South Dakota because 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:30.159 I have the number of students that I interact with. 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:32.960 I am very closely involved with all of my trial 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:35.680 team members, and I get to do that individualized attention 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:37.760 that you're talking about, But you can always pick out 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:39.520 those one or two where it's like, hey, you're gonna 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:41.880 need a little bit of extra coaching or a little 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:44.720 bit of extra support. My office is a safe space 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:49.480 for you. One of the biggest obstacles that I see 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:51.919 in a lot of my friends at school and in 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:55.800 myself is that imposter syndrome that most women have, where 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:59.120 it's like you don't realize that you are smart enough 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:01.320 or think you have the best argument, and there's always 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:03.320 kind of a push to be better without accepting that 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:06.919 you're already goody. And that's been one of the hardest 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:10.480 things to overcome. And advocacy is knowing like, Okay, my 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:13.119 argument is good, my style is good. Now I just 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:15.479 need to trust it, but make it better and and 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:17.960 that's the thing, right And I will empathize with you 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:20.000 on the imposter syndrome point and tell you it's not 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:23.800 something that goes away. I've got it horribly bad. My 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:25.680 friends love to laugh at me because every other week 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:26.959 i'd like, the law school is gonna fire me, I'm 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:28.720 gonna lose my job, And they're like, in what world? 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:31.560 And I'm like, somebody's going to see through that I 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:33.359 have clearly just faked it till I made it. At 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:36.159 this point, one of the things about being a female 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:40.000 advocate that I've found challenging until we'll still find challenging 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:43.320 but less challenging after working with you, is I think 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:48.000 the practice of law has had very maybe kind of 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:52.560 aggressive and straightforward and loud and boisterous and all of 0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:55.800 these kind of different qualities that you've seen all the movies, 0:21:56.440 --> 0:22:01.800 um that lawyers portrayed. But being you know, a female advocate, 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:04.720 as you said, we have a different skill set. And 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:07.000 in trial tech, I got a lot of comments about 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:12.000 being too gentle or like motherly, or I speak too 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:14.600 soft or something, and it kind of leads you to 0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:16.840 a different skill set of how you take those kinds 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:20.560 of things and then make them better in your advocacy 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:23.439 and make them dangerous in the courtroom. And I think 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:27.080 that's one of the coolest things that I see women 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:29.520 advocates do, is you kind of know where they're going, 0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:34.840 but you don't know how that final. And here's the thing. 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:36.719 I think that part of the reason that we've had 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:38.520 to become that is because the idea that if you're 0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:40.800 aggressive is a woman, You're going to get labeled as 0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:44.080 a bit. But number one, that's not necessarily true. The 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:47.639 jury will give you leeway if the witnesses being ridiculous. 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:50.440 You know, the more unreasonable they get, the more reasonable 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:52.680 that you get, unless you have to do the control 0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:55.320 and then it shows the jury I've got the range 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:57.680 to go there. I'm choosing not to go there because 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:01.000 I know I'm more effective when I take these different approaches, 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:03.280 and that's not a bad thing. The thing that you 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:05.240 get to figure out now is is what your range 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:07.600 truly is. You you've figured out a couple of octaves 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:09.680 that you're comfortable singing in to make the analogy work, 0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:16.119 but you can expand out of that. We bring to 0:23:16.200 --> 0:23:22.280 the room our own biases and beliefs, and if you 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:26.760 don't understand that, when you're an attorney standing up and 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:30.320