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Speaker 2: All right, welcome to Hoops tonight. You're at the volume.

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Speaker 2: Happy Monday, everybody. Hop all if you guys are having

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Speaker 2: an incredible start to your week. We have the guys

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Speaker 2: from Nerds, says Logan and Carston coming on the show today.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna bounce around the first round. We're gonna hit

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Speaker 2: on four different series from a different perspective. We're gonna protectives.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about the rise of Anthony Edwards, whether

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Speaker 2: or not the Wolves are the biggest threat to beat

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Speaker 2: the Denver Nuggets, where the Phoenix Suns go from here,

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Speaker 2: and we're gonna talk a little bit about Lakers Nuggets

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Speaker 2: and whether or not that series has any potential to

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Speaker 2: get interesting down the stretch Mats Clippers tied it to

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Speaker 2: heading home for Game five for the Clippers, that's gonna

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Speaker 2: be an interesting one. And then we're gonna get into

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Speaker 2: Sixers Nix, which is at three to one, but there's

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Speaker 2: some optimism on both sides, so we're gonna talk about

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Speaker 2: whether or not that series is over. You guys know

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Speaker 2: the job before we get started. Subscribe to a brand

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Speaker 2: of YouTube channel so you don't miss any more videos.

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Speaker 2: Following me on Twitter at underscore jsonlt so you guys

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Speaker 2: don't miss show announcements. Don't forget about a podcast feed

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Speaker 2: where we get your podcast under Hoops tonight. Keep dropping

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Speaker 2: mail back questions in the YouTube comments so we can

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Speaker 2: hit a couple more throughout the end of this playoff front.

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Speaker 2: All right, Logan and Carson, So I go to check

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Speaker 2: on last night's game. Last night, we ended up taking

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Speaker 2: the evening off, spend some time with my friends. It

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Speaker 2: was a very nice e to kind of relax for

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Speaker 2: a little bit. Then again on my phone and there's

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Speaker 2: a video going around and it's Anthony Edwards with one

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Speaker 2: of the most preposterous dunks given the stakes in the

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Speaker 2: situation that I've ever seen and this morning, I sit

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Speaker 2: down over my coffee and I watch the game, and

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Speaker 2: I am completely blown away by what I'm seeing from

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Speaker 2: Anthony Edwards because lost in the shuffle of the dunk.

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Speaker 3: Was this ridiculous hook pass.

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Speaker 2: Around a double team that hit Mike Conley in the

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Speaker 2: left corner for three, A nasty pull up jumper in

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Speaker 2: a ball screen where he elevated at the elbow, this

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Speaker 2: weird drifting kind of sidestep three in the left corner,

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Speaker 2: a thirty foot bomb that he hit from the top

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Speaker 2: of the key. It was just big play after big play.

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Speaker 2: Devin Booker tries to dunk and he just somehow meets

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Speaker 2: him up high, swats him out of bounds and points

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Speaker 2: at him and flexes at him. This is unbelievable, Like

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Speaker 2: future of the League, all altering stuff that we're seeing

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Speaker 2: from Anthony Edwards. And to be clear, I feel like

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Speaker 2: all three of us have been super high on ant

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Speaker 2: and we've all known that this was his potential. But

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Speaker 2: he's getting there, way, way, way faster than we thought

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Speaker 2: he was going to. He's basically there right now. He's

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Speaker 2: on the tier with the guys at the top of

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Speaker 2: the league. That's the level we're seeing from Anthony Edwards

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Speaker 2: so far in this playoff run thirty one points, eight rebounds,

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Speaker 2: and six assists per game on sixty five percent true shooting,

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Speaker 2: substantial leaps over his regular season numbers. This is stuff

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Speaker 2: that is special. Am I using too much hyperbole here?

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Speaker 2: Or is aunt really worthy of this type of praise, Carson,

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Speaker 2: once you start us off.

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Speaker 4: This is incredible what we're seeing right now.

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Speaker 5: He is playing clearly at the level of a top

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Speaker 5: ten guy just over the scope of this series, and

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Speaker 5: has always scaled quite well to the playoff environments in

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Speaker 5: the small sample size that we've seen from him, largely

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Speaker 5: because of the fact that the dude is just an

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Speaker 5: unstoppable athlete in downhill force and he is so strong

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Speaker 5: that he is just able to impose himself and gets

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Speaker 5: where he wants around the rim.

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Speaker 4: But what has been so outstanding.

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Speaker 5: Really over the three playoff series that we've seen from him,

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Speaker 5: but particularly this series, is the ridiculous shot making.

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Speaker 4: Like, yes, he has had.

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Speaker 5: Some remarkable drives and he has pressured the paint, but

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Speaker 5: when you think about Game one, that eighteen point third

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Speaker 5: quarter that is all pull up jumpers, you think about

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Speaker 5: how he closes out this one. As you mentioned, it

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Speaker 5: is primarily incredible perimeter shot making, and the leap that

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Speaker 5: we see from him is incredible. He shot forty four

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Speaker 5: percent on pull up jumpers in terms of effective field

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Speaker 5: goal percenters this year, which was one of the lowest

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Speaker 5: numbers among high volume shooters in the league.

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Speaker 4: Right now, he's at fifty five percent through this series, which.

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Speaker 5: Is an elite number, and that leap has somehow been

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Speaker 5: consistent in last year's playoff series and the year before that,

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Speaker 5: so he has to sustain that to be playing at

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Speaker 5: this sort of ridiculous overwhelming level. But the shot making

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Speaker 5: from mid range, off the bounce from beyond the arc

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Speaker 5: has just been sensational. And we can focus on the

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Speaker 5: special scoring because like that is the lead story here,

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Speaker 5: But this man is also very clearly right now one

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Speaker 5: of the ten to fifteen best perimeter defenders on the planet.

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Speaker 5: And Jade McDaniels is the star of the perimeter defense

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Speaker 5: and Rudy Gobert is the star on the interior. But

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Speaker 5: what Ant has done consistently applying ball pressure with this

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Speaker 5: overwhelming length, I mean, some of the plays that he

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Speaker 5: has made as a helper, blowing up a Devin Booker

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Speaker 5: block in this game. He's had multiple plays like that,

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Speaker 5: some of the high IQ plays that he's made, forcing turnovers, generating.

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Speaker 4: Steels like it's unbelievable.

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Speaker 5: And then when he's mostly making good decisions as a playmaker,

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Speaker 5: and he had some really impressive passes like there are

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Speaker 5: still moments where the Sons were able to trip him

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Speaker 5: up with doubles and he over dribbled and he took

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Speaker 5: too long to make a decision, but for the most

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Speaker 5: part generated good offense. And then Minnesota just has so

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Speaker 5: many capable ball handlers and decision makers and shooters that

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Speaker 5: if you give them an advantage, they've been able to

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Speaker 5: effectively attack. It's incredible what we're seeing from ant And

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Speaker 5: the biggest test that he has had to face is

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Speaker 5: can you hold up as a decision maker and can

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Speaker 5: you hold up as a pull up shot maker. That

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Speaker 5: was clearly how Phoenix was going to test him from

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Speaker 5: game one of this series, consistently sending doubles his way,

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Speaker 5: sending hard help, and for the most part he really

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Speaker 5: has I don't want to overreact just to four games, though,

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Speaker 5: especially in a favorable matchup against a team that is

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Speaker 5: lacking in point of attack defense and is lacking in

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Speaker 5: rim protection and when Ant has been so much better

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Speaker 5: as a pull up shooter than we normally expect from him,

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Speaker 5: This dude is really really great. But you still see

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Speaker 5: a clunker in game two where those pull up jumpers

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Speaker 5: aren't falling, and like, that's a lower floor than you

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Speaker 5: see from a lot of the guys who we want

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Speaker 5: to say and is playing at that level right now.

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Speaker 4: It's incredible.

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Speaker 5: It is absolutely a rising moment for a superstar. And

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Speaker 5: to do this at twenty two years in your fourth year,

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Speaker 5: that is absurd. To be convincingly the best player on

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Speaker 5: the floor in a series with Kevin Durant and Devin Booker,

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Speaker 5: that is remarkable. And when he's playing at this level,

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Speaker 5: Minnesota is just a title contender, period, point blank. With

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Speaker 5: this defense that is one of the best that we've seen,

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Speaker 5: if not the best, in the last decade, with an

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Speaker 5: offensive supporting cast that is delivering, and with him playing

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Speaker 5: at that superstar level bona fide, where right now you

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Speaker 5: feel like he could go toe to toe with a

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Speaker 5: lot of these established superstars.

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Speaker 4: Minnesota is playing as well as anybody.

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Speaker 1: They are, And I think the most remarkable thing about

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Speaker 1: Ant two, Carson, you briefly touch on at the end,

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Speaker 1: is his poise for how young he is. Man, this

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Speaker 1: is a big stage for a guy who doesn't have

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Speaker 1: a lot of experience. He already has the most thirty

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Speaker 1: point playoff games in t Wolves franchise history. This is

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Speaker 1: the first sweep in t Wolves franchise history. Man and

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Speaker 1: the Boys did that. But it is his poise, Man,

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Speaker 1: his mentality. That is the one thing that I think

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Speaker 1: that maybe why we can expect more of this from

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Speaker 1: Anthony Edwards. I agree with you, Carson. I think the

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Speaker 1: pull up shooting is just bound to balance itself out

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Speaker 1: a little bit where he's gonna have a few more

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Speaker 1: duds and I think that he's gonna go up against

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Speaker 1: better defensive personnel. But I've said this all playoffs long,

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Speaker 1: and I've said this coming in man Ant's mentality, he

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Speaker 1: is just breadfoot of moment like and is one of

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Speaker 1: the most mentally tough. I don't know if you saw

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Speaker 1: this one, Jason. I mentioned this on our show. He

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Speaker 1: went on with SVP and SVP asked him about his mentality,

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Speaker 1: and this is his quote, I just want to kill

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Speaker 1: everything in front of me man like and is a

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Speaker 1: just one of the fiercest, nastiest competitors. And I think

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Speaker 1: in these high intensity moments. I know it's a cliche

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Speaker 1: like this guy just steps up to the moment, but

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Speaker 1: Ant gives me that, like I just I have this.

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Speaker 1: He feels like a superhero almost, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: It's like mythical like I want to get and his

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Speaker 1: cape man again, I think I think it's gonna balance

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Speaker 1: out a little bit. But his POI in his control

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Speaker 1: offensively over the game for how young he is, is

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Speaker 1: so impressive to me. Like Carson, you touch on the playmaking.

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Speaker 1: That's been one of the things I've been most impressed

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Speaker 1: with in this series. Dude, realizing that there's doubles on

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Speaker 1: the back end, realizing that you know, just knowing when

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Speaker 1: to pass the ball. These are things that younger Anthony

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Speaker 1: Edwards a year or two ago, he would have driven

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Speaker 1: into a crowded paint, you know, he would have settled

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Speaker 1: for a tough jumper when there's double coming. Like he

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Speaker 1: is taking what the defense gives them and making them

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Speaker 1: pay every time. And you're right, dude, this level that

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Speaker 1: he's at, I agree with you, dude. I think the

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Speaker 1: t Wolves are a legit contender, and he's at a

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Speaker 1: top ten level right now. I'm waiting for him to

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Speaker 1: come back to earth. But I don't know, man, I

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Speaker 1: think Ed just might be that guy, and this might

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Speaker 1: be the guy that we get the rest of the run. Dude,

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Speaker 1: he's got He's special, man, He's super special. But this

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Speaker 1: is way ahead of schedule. Guys.

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Speaker 2: The mentality is so funny to me because it's like respectful,

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Speaker 2: like deeply respectful, and and like there's a certain amount

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Speaker 2: of like him honoring his peers and honoring the people

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Speaker 2: that came before, but it's like mixed in with shit talk.

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Speaker 2: So it's like it's so funny because it's almost like

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Speaker 2: he's like he's like, yeah, you know, Kevin, Kevin, you're

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Speaker 2: my guy. You know you're my favorite player. But by

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Speaker 2: the way, you know, I'm busting your ass right. It's

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Speaker 2: very much like this is like it's very much this

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Speaker 2: like hilarious, like authentic yet respectful, like trash talk confidence

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Speaker 2: that he has that I that I really like. I

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Speaker 2: think we've all three of us have had aunt as

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Speaker 2: like a guy that we think is wired the right

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Speaker 2: way and that has the potential to become the best

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Speaker 2: player in the league one day. That's always been a

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Speaker 2: capability of his. It's all about the timing. And again,

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Speaker 2: like you know, some of we had pessimism surrounding the

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Speaker 2: Wolves primarily centered around their half court shot creation and

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Speaker 2: for the record, twenty six five and five on fifty

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Speaker 2: eight percent of shooting in the regular season, and so

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Speaker 2: that was kind of what we were basing that on

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Speaker 2: thirty one eight and six on sixty five percentra shooting

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Speaker 2: in the playoffs, that's a different player that does fundamentally

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Speaker 2: alter the calculus of the team. I also thought my

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Speaker 2: Conley was way better in this series, particularly with his

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Speaker 2: shot making, than I was expecting. They just they just

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Speaker 2: have kind of aced that test. And you know, it's

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Speaker 2: funny because like there are spots where I agree with

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Speaker 2: what you were saying, Carson, in spots where I disagree

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Speaker 2: in terms of like Game two, for instance, Game two

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Speaker 2: to me was actually a really interesting case of ants

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Speaker 2: development in the sense that his pull up jump shot

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Speaker 2: wasn't falling, but there was an important stretch in a

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Speaker 2: third quarter where he was beating the hedge and recover.

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Speaker 2: They were thrown at him with U Banks with the

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Speaker 2: pass instead of with you know stupid, you know, forcing

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Speaker 2: shots and forcing and over penetrating and stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: And between that and what he did defensively in that game,

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Speaker 2: I thought it was a pretty strong indicator of a

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Speaker 2: high floor for Ant And like, honestly, when it comes

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Speaker 2: to pull up shooting, there's really never been a pull

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Speaker 2: up shooter in the history of the league that's like

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Speaker 2: not capable of having two or three games in a

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Speaker 2: series where he doesn't shoot as well. That's just kind

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Speaker 2: of part of the deal, I think. I think the

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Speaker 2: reason why his pull up shooting has translated so well

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Speaker 2: to the playoffs has a lot to do with the

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Speaker 2: physicality and his athleticism. Like a couple examples like that

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Speaker 2: turn around left shoulder fade Hee over Bradley Beal in

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Speaker 2: the fourth quarter. He just gets such great lift and

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Speaker 2: such great separation compared to the other athletes in these situations.

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Speaker 2: The dead giveaway too, is like when you get great lift,

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Speaker 2: you can actually see it in the release from the shooter,

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Speaker 2: where you can just tell he's got that like feathery,

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Speaker 2: like the snap of the wrist at the end, whereas

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Speaker 2: like when a player doesn't get enough lift he kind

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Speaker 2: of has to chuck the ball a little bit and

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Speaker 2: so it looks a little more janky in the release.

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Speaker 2: And like Ant raised up for like a thirty thirty

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Speaker 2: two footer at the end of that game and from

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Speaker 2: the top of the key, and you could just see

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Speaker 2: he got such great lift because he's so athletic and

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Speaker 2: he's got the stamina that a lot of these guys

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Speaker 2: doesn't don't have in this situation that he's able to

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Speaker 2: just kind of rise up in knock shots down and it.

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Speaker 2: And but where I do agree with you, Carson, is

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Speaker 2: like Ant being this good changes the calculus. It simply does.

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Speaker 2: If he's this good, it goes from you know, a

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Speaker 2: Wolves team with this defense that does not have high

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Speaker 2: level half court shot creation is a is a lower

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Speaker 2: level contender. With Ant playing at this level and with

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Speaker 2: Conley playing the way he's playing, and honestly, the whole

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Speaker 2: team is feeding off the confidence that Ant's bringing.

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Speaker 3: To the table.

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Speaker 2: All of that together, I absolutely think that this team

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Speaker 2: can win a championship. And I would just go, I'll

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Speaker 2: take it this far. They've been, in my opinion, the

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Speaker 2: second most impressive team in this first round. And by

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Speaker 2: the way, as far as like whether or not Ant's

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Speaker 2: playing at a top ten level. Jokic is the only

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Speaker 2: guy playing better than him right now. There's no guy

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Speaker 2: out there, there's no player you can point to and

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Speaker 2: go that guy's playing better than Ant except for Nikolea

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Speaker 2: Jokic right now. And so like that's again now, sustaining

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Speaker 2: is what you have to do to maintain that spot.

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Speaker 2: But through four games, the Wolves have been the second

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Speaker 2: most impressive team in my opinion, and they've been an

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Speaker 2: Ant has been the second most impressive player. So now

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Speaker 2: the group that's in front of him the for Nuggets.

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Speaker 2: They obviously are in a little bit of a situation

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Speaker 2: with the Lakers where they're gonna have to win one

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Speaker 2: more game and there's some stuff there that we're gonna

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Speaker 2: get into when we get into that series. But I

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Speaker 2: do believe the Nuggets will win, and NBA history tells

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Speaker 2: us they will win. So and we'll start with you, Logan.

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Speaker 2: Do you view the Wolves as the biggest threat to

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Speaker 2: the Nuggets at all in the league, let alone in

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Speaker 2: the Western Conference? And that means we're including Boston in

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Speaker 2: that equation.

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Speaker 3: I do.

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Speaker 1: Boston's always going to scare me. I'll preface this and

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Speaker 1: I'll get Boston out of the way real quick. Boston

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Speaker 1: just scares me because I've seen enough of these dud

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Speaker 1: games from them where they're just not engaged defensively, they're

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Speaker 1: just getting killed from behind the arc. We've seen that

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Speaker 1: movie so many times. I know what bad Boston looks like.

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Speaker 1: Minnesota specifically, one my chief concern is who takes on

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Speaker 1: the task of guarding Anthony Edwards on the perimeter, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. The reason that Phoenix was throwing

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Speaker 1: so many bodies at Ant was because nobody could hold him,

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Speaker 1: like it was so easy. Whatever he did, he just exploded.

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Speaker 1: And he was at the mid range, he was at

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Speaker 1: the rim. It was you blank and he's there, you know.

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Speaker 1: So Phoenix had to divert that kind of defensive attention.

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Speaker 1: And I wonder if Denver has to do the same thing,

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Speaker 1: Like I don't know who stays in front of Ant.

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Speaker 1: I think Denver has better personnel. But it's like when

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Speaker 1: you move, like say you wanted to put Aaron Gordon

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Speaker 1: on Anthony Edwards for example, Well, then on the backside,

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Speaker 1: you're just losing size in a different matchup where you

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Speaker 1: know the rules are huge, where you're putting a small

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Speaker 1: guy on cat now and so I think physically along

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Speaker 1: with that, they match up really well with Denver in

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Speaker 1: just terms of size and bodies they could throw at Yokich, Like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think the biggest variableys that we touched

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Speaker 1: on is Anthony Edward's gonna play at this level. Like

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Speaker 1: if he's not, then you know, I don't think they

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Speaker 1: have a shot at beating Denver. But the rest of

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Speaker 1: the team is playing well too, dude, outside of ant

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Speaker 1: because it all starts with him, right, That's when I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about them throwing bodies at him too. The ball movement,

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Speaker 1: I thought has been amazing for Minnesota. I think they're

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Speaker 1: deeper than Denver as well too, like this bench man,

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Speaker 1: having guys like Nikhil Alexander Walker able to come off

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Speaker 1: the bench, nas Reed like Kyle Anderson. They've just got

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Speaker 1: a lot of guys that can give them solid minutes too,

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Speaker 1: a lot of different lineup combinations. All the guys can

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Speaker 1: space the floor. The Nuggets are deep, man, they can shoot,

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Speaker 1: They have a rock solid defensive formula, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know who can say in front of Anthony Edwards, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I do think they're the best shot at the Nuggets

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Speaker 1: and I wonder if I don't know if the winner

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Speaker 1: of that series is going to go on to win

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Speaker 1: the title. I wonder if you know the winner of

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Speaker 1: that series should be the favorite. I think that's my

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Speaker 1: most highly anticipated matchup of this playoff field, man, more

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Speaker 1: than maybe even the hypothetical of Denver Boston. We'll get

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Speaker 1: there when we get there, but by far, this is

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Speaker 1: the series I'm most excited for. And I do think

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Speaker 1: the Timberwolves pose the biggest threat, just especially the way

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Speaker 1: that they can negate like Denver's rebounding advantage too.

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Speaker 3: Man.

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Speaker 1: The Wolves play with this like tenacity, dude, where every

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Speaker 1: ball goes up on the glass, it's three or four

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Speaker 1: guys collapsing and coming in, and I think they can

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Speaker 1: match that, dude. Yeah, I was not expecting this at

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Speaker 1: all from Minnesota. Man, I thought it was another year.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was two years away where we needed

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Speaker 1: this thing come to fruition.

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Speaker 3: I do.

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Speaker 1: I think they're the biggest threat to Minnesota, even more

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Speaker 1: so than Boston.

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Speaker 5: I'm still gonna slightly give the nod to Boston for now,

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Speaker 5: But Jason, you say that Minnesota has been the second

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Speaker 5: most impressive team in the first round, to me, they've

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Speaker 5: clearly been the most impressive because that Denver team isn't

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Speaker 5: nearly playing up to the level that we know they're

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Speaker 5: capable of. Minnesota just delivered an ass kicking of epic

383
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Speaker 5: proportions and they consistently dominated Phoenix. They played a level

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Speaker 5: of defense both on the perimeter and the interior that

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Speaker 5: nobody in the league can match.

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Speaker 4: They dominated the glass.

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Speaker 5: And they were able to destroy them with so many

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Speaker 5: different combinations of personnel. They were able to still convincingly

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Speaker 5: win Game two when Ant is off as a scoring

390
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Speaker 5: Kat is off, as they were able to convincingly win

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Speaker 5: the minutes with Cat off the floor when he was

392
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Speaker 5: in foul trouble because ny Kie Alexander Walker has been

393
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Speaker 5: so good. They have so many competent and really high

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Speaker 5: level perimeter defenders who are then also good shooters and

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Speaker 5: decision makers, Like there was just no reality in which

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Speaker 5: Phoenix was even going to be competitive in that series.

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Speaker 5: That was incredible what we just saw for Minnesota. And

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Speaker 5: the scariest thing is ans a Cent seemingly to being

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Speaker 5: at this legit superstar level and what that does for

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Speaker 5: the entire team offense, because that was the concern with

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Speaker 5: this team. I still had Minnesota as my number four

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Speaker 5: contender overall going into the playoffs because I believed in

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Speaker 5: this defense being so exceptional and I really like their

404
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Speaker 5: physical advantages. But the concern was can they produce at

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Speaker 5: the level necessary in the half court to have the

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Speaker 5: ceiling to knock off at Denver. They just posted the

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Speaker 5: best offensive rating of any team in the playoffs so

408
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Speaker 5: far in this series, and so that is a meaningful,

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Speaker 5: meaningful difference, and it makes them a terrifying matchup for

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Speaker 5: Denver because we already know they match up physically way

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Speaker 5: better than anybody else. They guard Denver way better than

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Speaker 5: anybody else. They have absolute hounds at the point of

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Speaker 5: attack for Jamal Murray, who has really struggled in this

414
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Speaker 5: series and now has a CAF strain. Seemingly that does

415
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:15,400
Speaker 5: not bode well when you have to deal with Jade

416
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Speaker 5: McDaniels and you have to deal with Anthony Edwards and

417
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Speaker 5: Nikil Alexander Walker. They have consistently guarded Nikole Jokic better

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Speaker 5: than anybody else. He went on this unstoppable run throughout

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Speaker 5: the playoffs last year. I think if you take his

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Speaker 5: stats outside of the Timberwol series, he averaged something like

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Speaker 5: thirty three points per game on sixty seven percent true shooting,

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Speaker 5: and in that series he was at like twenty seven

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Speaker 5: a game on fifty seven percent truth shooting. He still

424
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 5: gave them work, but he had to work a lot

425
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 5: harder than anybody else because they have multiple looks they

426
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Speaker 5: can throw at him. Go Bare in single coverage will

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Speaker 5: guard him as well as anybody on the planet.

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Speaker 4: But even more effective, I would say, has been.

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Speaker 5: Putting Kat on him as the primary post defender, because

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Speaker 5: Cat guards him better than most teams best center because

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Speaker 5: he's so huge and he's physical, and he's really been

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Speaker 5: up to the challenge of that matchup. And then have

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Speaker 5: go Bar in the romer role. It's like an infinitely

434
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 5: better version of what we've seen the Lakers try to

435
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,679
Speaker 5: do with Ruey, which is just kind of ridiculous because

436
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 5: Ruby can't hold up even close to how Kat does

437
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:13,119
Speaker 5: as Yoka's primary defenders, so they're checking so many boxes.

438
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 4: Dude, The depth is exceptional. Exceptional.

439
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 5: Nasrita and to Keith Alexander Walker are two of the

440
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 5: best bench players in the playoffs period. Denver that bench

441
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 5: has looked concerning to me. This is a major challenge

442
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 5: for a Denver team that hasn't been playing at a

443
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,880
Speaker 5: convincing enough level to where you can just like check

444
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 5: this off as an automatic win. Certainly, if these teams

445
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,399
Speaker 5: stayed at their current level, Minnesota would win that series.

446
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 5: I believe in Denver being the better team. I believe

447
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:41,399
Speaker 5: in them playing at a higher level than they have,

448
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 5: and I would pick them. But it's not close between

449
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 5: anybody else out west, Like Minnesota has very clearly climbed

450
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 5: into the Boston Denver tier that I felt was kind

451
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 5: of impenetrable. I felt it was those two teams and

452
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 5: everybody else all year. And now the teams that I

453
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:01,439
Speaker 5: had alongside Minnesota Dallas, they're just not playing at nearly

454
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 5: as convincing a level.

455
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,440
Speaker 2: Well, to put it simply, you went from going from

456
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 2: a guy that's in the eight to fifteen range to

457
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 2: a guy that's in the somewhere in the one to

458
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 2: five range. Like that, that's the difference in terms of

459
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 2: talent and like like. Coming into this playoff run, we

460
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 2: all viewed the Wolves as the team that could certainly

461
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 2: do the most to Denver. Defensively, they've all had clean

462
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,120
Speaker 2: matchups like they I think they would just put Jaden

463
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:30,159
Speaker 2: McDaniels on Jamal Murray. We know that Jayden is in

464
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,159
Speaker 2: my opinion, the best perimeter defender in the league, and

465
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 2: he can do some real damage there. Did a really

466
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 2: good job on Devin Booker in the series. For the

467
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 2: most part, I think they would put Ant on Michael

468
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 2: Porter Junior. I think they put Conley on KCP, and

469
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:42,919
Speaker 2: I think they would just trust Aunt to be the

470
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 2: best closeout guy to be able to sprint back to

471
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,120
Speaker 2: MPJ and chase him off the line with the athleticism

472
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 2: to contest they We all knew that they had that

473
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 2: capability defensively, but the offensive end of the floor, just

474
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 2: Denver is a substantially bigger and better defensive squad, and

475
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 2: so there's no doubt that that would have been a

476
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 2: bit that's going to be a bigger challenge. And my

477
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 2: pessimism surrounding the Wolves going into that matchup before seeing

478
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,959
Speaker 2: Ant at this level would have simply been that Denver

479
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 2: would do a better job of slowing down Minnesota's offense

480
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 2: than Minnesota would do to Denver. That very very way,

481
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 2: very well maybe the case, and that's probably why I'm

482
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 2: going to pick Denver. That I agree that gap has

483
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 2: closed substantially just because for one, Ant looks better and

484
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 2: Jamal looks worse, and that's just a substantial kind of

485
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: like kind of gap closer, so to speak. And so

486
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 2: do I do think the Wolves have that potential. I

487
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 2: think there are certain match up things that will be

488
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 2: interesting over the course of the series. Like I believe

489
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 2: Denver guarding Minnesota Will Cacp obviously is a guy that

490
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,360
Speaker 2: theoretically matches up well, but we just saw I mean,

491
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 2: Bradley Beal is a better athlete, THANKCP, and he had

492
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 2: no chance against Ant in the last series, and so

493
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 2: I think there will be an athleticism and size advantage there.

494
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 2: I wonder if we'll actually end up seeing Aaron Gordon

495
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 2: spend any time on Ant, but then you have the

496
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 2: Carl Towns problem, so that could be that could be

497
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 2: an issue. Like I think we'll see the high drop

498
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 2: coverage kind of similar to what Frank Vogel showed to

499
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 2: show to Ant to try to kind of test his playmaking.

500
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 2: But he made the plays for the most part in

501
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 2: that first round series. And so again it's gonna be

502
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 2: a different challenge that like the half court offense stuff

503
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 2: is crazy. So Minnesota had a scored one hundred and

504
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 2: five points per one hundred half court plays against Phoenix.

505
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 2: That was the third best half court offense number in

506
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 2: the NBA, behind Indiana and Boston. Here's a big factor

507
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 2: that will probably shift in the Denver series. The Wolves

508
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 2: grabbed forty percent of their own misses in the half court, So, like,

509
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 2: that's insane. And Denver, obviously, especially with their starting five,

510
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 2: is just a much better defensive rebounding team. So it'll

511
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 2: be an interesting series. But yeah, like there's no doubt

512
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 2: that it's going from before the series. If you would

513
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 2: before the playoff run, if you would have just told me, like, hey,

514
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 2: Wolves in Denver are going to meet in the second round,

515
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 2: who do you got? I would have been like, Denver comfortably.

516
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 2: You know, you guys know I had the Wolves down

517
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 2: at like eight in my contender list because that was

518
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 2: how pessimistic I was about.

519
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 3: Their half court offense.

520
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 2: And just taking this leap and vaulting them up fundamentally

521
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 2: changes the calculus. And now it's a group that I

522
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 2: think has a real puncher's chance to win the trophy,

523
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 2: let alone to get past Denver. As far as the

524
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 2: Minnesota Boston element, Boston from a talent perspective, I think

525
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 2: has the capability to beat Denver, and I do think

526
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 2: Boston has a chance, and if they do meet in

527
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 2: the finals, I'd give Boston a good chance. But I

528
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 2: think actually Minnesota has a better chance to beat them

529
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 2: than Boston simply because they have this like very clear

530
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 2: identity that's forming, which is like they defend like crazy

531
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 2: every single night, which we have seen for Boston is

532
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 2: not part of their identity. Game two against Miami was

533
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,959
Speaker 2: one of the worst playoff defensive efforts I've seen from

534
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 2: a serious team ever in my time covering the league.

535
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 2: And in addition to that, there's like a little bit

536
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 2: of a funky hierarchy in Boston. They still don't really

537
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,959
Speaker 2: know what they like to go to in pivotal situations

538
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 2: at the end of games. It's very clear as you

539
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 2: see down the stretch of the Sun Series, like they

540
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,959
Speaker 2: run their stuff. But once it gets into the final,

541
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: you know, six seven minutes of the fourth quarter, it's

542
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 2: just a steady diet of ant and he's just going

543
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 2: to work on all these different spots on the floor.

544
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 2: I think I think that they are a better defensive

545
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 2: team with better defensive personnel there. I think I think

546
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 2: Minnesota is playing right now at a level that is

547
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 2: more capable of bringing the consistency you need to hang

548
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 2: with Denver, Whereas I think Denver would capitalize on Boston's

549
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 2: down stretches and that could be an issue. So I

550
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 2: think both teams have a good chance to beat Denver,

551
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 2: but I think the Wolves actually have a little bit

552
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 2: better of a chance. So before we move on to

553
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 2: Lakers Nuggets, I want to talk a little bit about

554
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 2: the Suns because they're gonna be the biggest story around

555
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 2: the league today for obvious reasons. So you're the Suns,

556
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 2: you make a trade where you'd send Cam Johnson and

557
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 2: Michale Bridges and draft compensation to the Brooklyn Nets. You

558
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 2: get Kevin Durant, right, you lose in the second round

559
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 2: to Denver, but you get two games off of them

560
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 2: on the strength of some historic pull up shooting from

561
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,959
Speaker 2: Devin Booker, like just off the charts pull up shooting.

562
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 3: Right.

563
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 2: Then we go into the off season and they make

564
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 2: a trade, which I think was a smart trade when

565
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 2: you factor in what was handed out, You're not going

566
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 2: to get a player of the caliber of Bradley Beal

567
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 2: anywhere else in that sort of deal. Now, obviously you

568
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 2: tied yourself up from a cat perspective for a while

569
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 2: with Beale, but you've made a simple talent exchange that

570
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 2: makes your team better. Then at the deadline you go

571
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 2: after roy O'Neil and that kind of I think they

572
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 2: ended up having to use a first round pick on

573
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 2: that one as well, if I remember correctly. So, like you,

574
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 2: you're all in in this situation, and it seems like

575
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 2: you're not close. And even further, you're specifically struggling in

576
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 2: some areas that are pivotal in the playoff run. They're

577
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 2: struggling in the physicality. They're struggling with ball pressure, they're

578
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 2: struggling on the glass, like we talked about, they're giving

579
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 2: up an offensive rebound on forty percent of their opponent's

580
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 2: missus this first round series. So you seem completely and

581
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 2: utterly physically overmatched. So where do the Suns go from here?

582
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 3: Carson?

583
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 5: They are in an absolutely brutal spot and this is

584
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 5: obviously as disappointing as this season could have been. They

585
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 5: are not close, as you say, and they do not

586
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 5: have the resources to change that. And in a lot

587
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 5: of ways, this was a nightmare matchup for Phoenix, which

588
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 5: is funny because I think often it was framed as

589
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 5: sort of being the inverse and just there was the

590
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 5: concern that Phoenix is pull up shooting and offensive skill

591
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 5: is going to be so great and things are going

592
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 5: to get ugly for Minnesota, and can they guard in

593
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 5: space with these two big looks. But it ended up

594
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 5: being just as convincing a demonstration of bullyball as we

595
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 5: have seen. Nobody who can physically hold up with Ant,

596
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 5: Nobody who can consistently challenge go Baar and Cat on

597
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 5: the glass. Nobody you could guard Cat in single coverage.

598
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 5: And I don't see how those things get better for

599
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 5: Phoenix if they continue to build around this big three

600
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 5: because they have nothing. They have one first round pick

601
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 5: that is not either being traded away or where they're

602
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 5: getting the worst end of a swap through twenty thirty.

603
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,239
Speaker 5: They also have one second round pick, and that is

604
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 5: the worst end of a swap.

605
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 4: They have no cap.

606
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 5: They have one hundred and sixty million dollars tied up

607
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 5: in these three guys through twenty twenty four. And I

608
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 5: agreed with you on the Beal trade in the sense

609
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 5: that it was a good value proposition at the moment,

610
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 5: just because it was like CP three's contract is bad,

611
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 5: Bradley Beal's contract is bad. Bradley Beal is clearly better.

612
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 5: CP three is way over the hill. That's a good

613
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 5: trade to make when you're trying to go all in.

614
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 5: But the more removed we get from that, the more

615
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 5: I think, Gosh, I just can't imagine any circumstances in

616
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 5: which I would want three years of Bradley Beal at

617
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 5: this value. And I wonder like, would you have just

618
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 5: been better off sitting through another year of CP which

619
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 5: obviously means you can't contend, but to not have to

620
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 5: be attached to this overwhelmingly negative asset, because when I

621
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 5: think about how they can proceed, obviously, in a dream

622
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 5: world you trade Bradley Beal, that's not going to happen.

623
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 5: Nobody is taking that on. That is probably the worst

624
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 5: contract in the NBA today. I don't think you can

625
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 5: trade Devin Booker to me, just from an organizational morale perspective,

626
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 5: that would be so devastating for like the plan to

627
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 5: be We're gonna mortgage our future. These players who are

628
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 5: fan base loves in mcal Bridges and Cam Johnson.

629
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 4: And also we're gonna give up multiple first.

630
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 5: Round picks to bring in Kevin Durant, who was in

631
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 5: his mid thirties and has sort of a higher assassin

632
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 5: feel and who I don't think the fan base is

633
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 5: very attached to it all. And then we are going

634
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 5: to build around him, trade away Devin Booker. So no

635
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 5: matter what, we're just gonna be a solid playoff team.

636
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 5: Like that's the reality here. There is no opening a

637
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 5: title window for this Phoenix team. I don't think so.

638
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 5: I think ultimately that title window closed after twenty twenty

639
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 5: two because CP three had just regressed too far. It

640
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 5: was clear that DeAndre Ayton was not gonna be the

641
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 5: guy that he was in that twenty twenty one playoff

642
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 5: run that they hoped he could ever be.

643
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 4: His valued depreciated, and so you.

644
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 5: Were just sitting as like an average playoff team, like

645
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 5: they were on pace to be a forty some thing

646
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 5: win team with CP three in book that year, and

647
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 5: then you trade for Kevin Durant, and the optimism is, Okay,

648
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 5: now we're really gonna contend because we have to top

649
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 5: twelve players on our team. But that roster was just

650
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 5: too far away and That's how I feel now that

651
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 5: roster is still too far away no matter what you do.

652
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 5: I would probably trade Kevin Durant though, because I don't

653
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,479
Speaker 5: think you can trade Book and to me, you just

654
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 5: can't run it back with this same core when there

655
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 5: are so many obvious limitations, like the level of play

656
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 5: that you're getting from your role players is not even

657
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 5: close to cutting it. Book and Katie played as well

658
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 5: offensively as they could in Game four and you still lost.

659
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 5: They combined for eighty two points. That speaks to just

660
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 5: the inadequate so inadequacies of this roster, and you can't

661
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 5: build that out using all minimum contracts. They try to

662
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 5: do it this past year, and it just ultimately doesn't work.

663
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 5: If you trade Kevin Durant and you get multiple really

664
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 5: high level role players, you get a really good point

665
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 5: of attack defender.

666
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 4: Out of that, you get.

667
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 5: A versatile, maybe switchable big with some offense. It's a

668
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 5: skill somebody better than use of Nurkics, who I just

669
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 5: think ultimately, having a slow footed, non rim protecting, non

670
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 5: floor spacing big is not gonna cut it, and those

671
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 5: guys tend to get played off the floor like he

672
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 5: does positive things. But I just think you really need

673
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 5: somebody who can hold down the five defensively when you

674
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 5: have the issues that they already do in terms of

675
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 5: slightness and just being so meh on the perimeter. If

676
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 5: you just get some dogs in here with book and Beal,

677
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 5: maybe there's a higher ceiling there. But honestly, I don't

678
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 5: even know if that moves the needle. I think either way,

679
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 5: the Suns are just destined to be like a solid

680
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,239
Speaker 5: playoff team for the next few years. And if they

681
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 5: would rather say, let's continue to put Kevin Durant and

682
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 5: Devin Booker on the basketball court together because we think

683
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 5: that's best for our fans morale, then I understand that perspective.

684
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 5: But I don't see any path here that opens up

685
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 5: a tidal ceiling. They are just so far behind Denver,

686
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 5: so far behind Minnesota, so far behind OKC, who is

687
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 5: only gonna get better as two of your stars are

688
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 5: just gonna slowly continue to trend downwards. It's an exceptionally

689
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 5: brutal situation that they're in.

690
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely agree. I think the Suns have to

691
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: pick a direction. That directions either we're gonna go in

692
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: again on these three stars and we're gonna try to

693
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: retool and make this thing work for the next two

694
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: years until it inevitably falls apart, or we do make

695
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: a trade, which is dealing with way Kevin Durant, because

696
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody's taking on that deal contract. And

697
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: the ironic part is if we had a time machine.

698
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: Not only do we question the Beal trade, I think

699
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: maybe you questioned the KD trade because you're thinking about

700
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: the assets that you gave up. He gave up two

701
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: great three and D wings that just work in a

702
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: team context, and a bunch of draft picks. You know

703
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: you'd rather have those assets back, I think if you

704
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: were to do it over again. And the thing about

705
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: Phoenix too, is it really is just a fundamental roster

706
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: construction issue. I think the Knicks and the Timberwolves have

707
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: given us really good blueprints on how to consistently win

708
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: in the playoffs. Like both of these teams have one

709
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: clear like offensive superstar right Anthony Edwards and Jalen Brunson

710
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: behind them. It is a bunch of guys that are

711
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: going to defend their ass off. They're gonna do their jobs,

712
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: They're gonna play really physical and do their roles like

713
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,919
Speaker 1: those players are really valuable, and I just don't see

714
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: any anything that Phoenix could do to reach that level

715
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: defensively that they need to or to match up physically

716
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: and on the glass. Like there's just there's no way

717
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: that they can reach that level. And we were talking

718
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 1: about this last night. So it's like, do you that

719
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,720
Speaker 1: that's the tough part about trading away Kevin Durant?

720
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 3: Is it?

721
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: Do you admit your mistake? Do you sit there and go,

722
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 1: we we screwed up, we gotta we got to redo

723
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: this thing. Or do you just go further into the

724
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: into the void with these three stars and you know,

725
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: just kind of look away from the mistake. I don't know.

726
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: I I agree. I think that if you go in

727
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: on b ol KD and and Book again, I think

728
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: you run the risk of maybe potentially losing d Book

729
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: down the line because the team is so unseious and

730
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: so uncompetitive and so far away, Like you just run

731
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: the risk of losing everybody. So yeah, I think you

732
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: just got a retool, Like you just the Sons cannot

733
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: compete with their cap tied up, they have no money

734
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 1: to give to the rest of this team, and it's

735
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: just going to handicap them for being a serious basketball team.

736
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: I think the route is to trade KD. And that

737
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,959
Speaker 1: is such a tough, you know, bullet to bite because

738
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 1: KD is still so good for how old he is,

739
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: and you gave up so many assets to go and

740
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: get him. But I just think it's the smarter decision.

741
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: I think your team is going to be better off

742
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: in the long run, and you're just gonna be deeper,

743
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: And I think you got to run it back with

744
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,959
Speaker 1: D Book and Deal and hope it works out. But yeah,

745
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, of course, I think the sad reality

746
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,240
Speaker 1: is the Suns aren't gonna be in the championship contention anyway.

747
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: They've got three teams that are just concretely better than

748
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: them out West, and one is just so clearly the favorite,

749
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: and then two are ascending right now and the Sons

750
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: are going down. But I would go for depth over

751
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: star power. Man, I don't think you're building a serious

752
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 1: basketball team with KD, Beal and Book, especially with all

753
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: the money that you got tied up in them.

754
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 2: You know, I thought the story of this year for

755
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 2: the Suns from the beginning when the trade first happened

756
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 2: for Bale, was will they get a diminishing return on

757
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 2: him based on a redundancy or will they get a

758
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 2: force multiplier based on optimization?

759
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 3: Right?

760
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 2: And there were stretches this year where they did optimize,

761
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 2: and they'd have these games where they'd have like a

762
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 2: seventy five eighty percent assist percentage and they're driving a

763
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 2: kick in and everyone's involved. But for the most part,

764
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 2: it wasn't like that, right, I thought, honestly, the report

765
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 2: last night the complete acxing of Frank Vogel, which is

766
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 2: one of the lamest things I've seen, considering like the

767
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 2: players just didn't get the job done and all of

768
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 2: them turned on the coach at the end of the year.

769
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 2: And there's another conversation to have about Frank Vogel because like,

770
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,439
Speaker 2: this is the second team in a row that you're

771
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 2: basically going to fire him simply because they don't listen

772
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 2: to him. Which is maybe that just as a strong

773
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 2: indicator that Frank, because I think Frank knows his stuff.

774
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,479
Speaker 2: I think it more is like I think Frank needs

775
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 2: to coach a younger, more impression team. I don't think

776
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 2: you can put him in charge of a bunch of

777
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 2: older superstars. I just it's clear there's back to back

778
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 2: teams now where even though he's doing his job, they

779
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 2: just don't they don't respect him for whatever reason. I

780
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,439
Speaker 2: thought the dead giveaway was that Devin Booker quote about

781
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 2: Frank Vogel in the film room, where like they he

782
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 2: was asked about it, and Devin's response was like a

783
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 2: little condescending and a little bit like yeah, Frank is

784
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 2: proud of his film work, like and it was very

785
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 2: like weirdly diminishing. And when I heard that, I was like, Oh, like,

786
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 2: you guys don't even respect this guy for the work

787
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 2: he's putting in to try to help you with games.

788
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 5: On the broadcast, when the sideline reporter said that Vogel

789
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 5: specifically said that he wanted them to attempt forty threes

790
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 5: in this game, and it's like they're not close to that.

791
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 5: They're not close, never ever been something that they have

792
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 5: demonstrated any intention of doing. So it's like, yeah, it

793
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 5: doesn't seem like they're listening to him.

794
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So I don't blame Frank at all. I

795
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 2: thought that was ridiculous, but I did think it was

796
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 2: interesting when I read the art article, when I heard

797
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 2: the bit about Kevin Durant not being happy with his

798
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 2: role in him being stuck in the corner. And there

799
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 2: was a specific play I clipped it. You guys can

800
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,399
Speaker 2: find it on my Twitter feed at Underscore Jason LT.

801
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 2: But basically, the the the Sons worked about the floor

802
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 2: and they set a ball screen for Beale out by

803
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 2: half court and Anthony Edwards falls over and kind of

804
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 2: like tweaks his ankle and in the sequence, Eric Gordon

805
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 2: pops to the right wing. He's standing at the three

806
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 2: point line wide open, and Bill misses him and instead

807
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 2: Devin Booker's kind of standing in the short corner with

808
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 2: Rudy Gobert on him. And one of the biggest issues

809
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 2: with the Suns all series is they thought, oh, I've

810
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 2: got Rudy Gobert, this is a matchup. It's like, no,

811
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 2: it's not. It's definitely not. And so he throws the

812
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 2: ball to Devin Booker and you could see on the

813
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,959
Speaker 2: right wing, Kevin Durant's in the corner and he's pointing

814
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 2: at Eric Gordon like he's open, and if you throw

815
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 2: it to Eric Gordon, one of two things is going

816
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,439
Speaker 2: to happen. Either no, Either Cat's not going to close

817
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:56,839
Speaker 2: out from the corner and he's gonna get a wide

818
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 2: open catch and shoot three, or Cat's gonna close out

819
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 2: and Eric Gordon can either make the extra pass or

820
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 2: rack to the right and kick out to Katie who's

821
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 2: gonna get an open three. And instead that doesn't happen,

822
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 2: and Booker tries to iso go Bear can't shake him

823
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 2: because big shot gets pretty gobert, and then he ends

824
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 2: up launching like a cross court pass that hits KD

825
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 2: with less than four seconds on the shot clock, and

826
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 2: he has to take this like impossible left shoulder fade

827
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 2: over Nikaile Alexander Walker. And when I saw that, I

828
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 2: was like, this is literally like a perfect encapsulation of

829
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: what Katie is saying. And it's to me, that's not

830
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 2: on Vogel. To me, that's on the general manager. When

831
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 2: you put yourself in a position where Kevin Durant is

832
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,919
Speaker 2: spotting up in the corner while guys are are are

833
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 2: you know, missing reads with the ball in their hands,

834
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 2: that to me is a strong indicator of like, Okay,

835
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 2: I could have a Jaden McDaniels over there, because if

836
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 2: all he's gonna do is stand in the corner, I'd

837
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 2: rather have a specialist and in terms of a use

838
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 2: of resources, that makes more sense right now where I so,

839
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:03,280
Speaker 2: I thought it was a strong signal that the three

840
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 2: star build really only works if they're perfectly complimentary, and

841
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 2: if they're not, it's not going to work. And there

842
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,439
Speaker 2: is a redundancy there really with all three of them,

843
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 2: but especially with Beale and Booker, because you're talking about

844
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:23,439
Speaker 2: two guys that can run ball screens and can make

845
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 2: plays that they're not super high level like run the

846
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 2: team playmakers, right. They can't like Bradley Beal can defend

847
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 2: on the perimeter, but that's not like what he's made

848
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 2: his money doing in the NBA, right. Kevin Durant even

849
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 2: as a forward, like he he there's things that he

850
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 2: can do, and then there's things that he excels at, right,

851
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 2: and like there's so much of that that overlaps with

852
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 2: that group. And so what I wonder sometimes is you

853
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 2: almost have to consider looking around the league to see

854
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,320
Speaker 2: if you could offload one of the stars and get returned.

855
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 2: The question is which you guys both say, Kay, I

856
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,399
Speaker 2: actually disagree and here's why.

857
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 3: And Suns fans are gonna think I'm crazy.

858
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 2: About this, But this is just the way I look

859
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 2: at it, is Devin Booker actually good enough to be

860
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 2: the best player on a championship team. And I know

861
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 2: he got close in twenty twenty one, but that was

862
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 2: a weird season. That was a season that saw a

863
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 2: Clippers team with Paul George and no Kawhi make the

864
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 2: conference finals and get two games off the Suns. That

865
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 2: was a year that saw Trey Young play in the

866
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 2: conference finals. Like, that was a little bit of a

867
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: weird year. The year after COVID, the two or three

868
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 2: best teams in the league, like Miami and the Lakers

869
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 2: and the Nuggets were all decimated by injuries and couldn't

870
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 2: make it into deep playoff runs. So, like, it was

871
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 2: kind of a weird season. And so let me just

872
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 2: quick rapid fire bounce around to you guys. We'll start

873
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 2: with you Logan, Like, do you actually think Devin Booker

874
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 2: can be the best player in a championship team in

875
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 2: this NBA with the guys at the top of the league.

876
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 6: Now?

877
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: Probably not. I mean, I just look at the other

878
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: number ones across the league, SGA like Anthony Edwards make

879
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: a really strong case that I can't have him over

880
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 1: d book Uh. And you think about his like, you know,

881
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,879
Speaker 1: he's not super impactful two way Uh no, the book

882
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: probably I'd say no at this point.

883
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 4: What about you, cars, I agree, No, I think he's

884
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 4: right below that.

885
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's below that tier.

886
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 2: So the truth of the matter is is he's not

887
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 2: your foundational star that you build a championship contender around, right.

888
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 3: But you know what he is.

889
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 2: He's the guy out of those three that clearly has

890
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,399
Speaker 2: the most trade value. So the way I look at

891
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 2: it is, if you really want to be honest with yourself,

892
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 2: you've got three really good players. Kd's like a fringe

893
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 2: tier one guy, Devin Booker's below tier one, and Bradley

894
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 2: Beal's probably like a tier two, tier three guy.

895
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 3: Right.

896
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 2: Although I think even though bial was an absolute disaster

897
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 2: last night, I thought Beal was pretty good the previous.

898
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 3: Month or so.

899
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 2: Like I I'm I'm higher on Biale than I thought.

900
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 2: He was a guy that was a strong point for

901
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 2: the Suns for many stretches over the end of the season.

902
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 2: So from there, the way I look at it is

903
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 2: like rebuilding around Booker is just gonna lead to similar results. So,

904
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 2: for instance, if you trade KD and you get some

905
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 2: role players back, or if you trade Bradley Beal somehow

906
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 2: and you get some role players back. I don't think

907
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 2: you're in a demonstrably better position than you are now, right,

908
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 2: But if you flip Devin Booker and you actually get

909
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 2: like awesome players back, let me just give you, guys

910
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 2: one example. I just thought of this one yesterday. I

911
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 2: actually texted it into the Red Carson you might have

912
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 2: seen it. But what if they called Orlando and they're like,

913
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 2: we want Jalen Suggs, Jonathan Isaac, and Wendell Carter Junior,

914
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 2: you can have Devin Booker. If I'm Orlando, I'm like,

915
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 2: holy shit. I compare Devin Booker with Paolo and Franz,

916
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 2: Like we'll figure out the rest. Like this could be

917
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 2: a special star pairing. And Pallo would be the guy

918
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 2: that you'd look at as the guy who could be

919
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 2: a Number one in the future, right, and he had

920
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 2: you know, he's obviously starting to kind of pop in

921
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 2: the playoffs, right. So Like, then, if you're the Suns,

922
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 2: you're getting back a legitimate athlete at center, a legitimate

923
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 2: front court defensive, two way athlete, one of the most

924
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 2: exciting ones in the league. And Jonathan Isaac, I'll be

925
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 2: at one with with some health concerns, and I'm getting

926
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 2: Jalen Suggs, one of the best perimeter defenders in the

927
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 2: league and a guy that can knock down threes. Now

928
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 2: I'm running out of lineup with Suggs, Beal, Kadie, Isaac,

929
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 2: Wendell Carter Junior. Now, am I better than Denver and

930
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 2: Minnesota and all those teams? Probably not, but I'm way

931
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 2: closer to them in my opinion in terms of the

932
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,359
Speaker 2: ability to hang physically. And all I really gave up

933
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 2: is a guy that wasn't good enough to be the

934
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 2: best player on a championship team to begin with. So like,

935
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 2: whereas if you were to trade KD or you were

936
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 2: to trade Bradley Beal, there's just no chance you get

937
00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 2: that return, Whereas with Booker at his a and at

938
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 2: his level, you have a real chance to get really

939
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 2: good players back. So first of all, we'll go We'll

940
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 2: start with you. Carson will bounce back around. But if

941
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 2: you were or who says no to that deal, Orlando

942
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 2: or Phoenix, and does my reasoning make any sense to you?

943
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 4: Your reasoning does make sense.

944
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 5: Again, I just think the Phoenix Suns fan base would

945
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 5: quite literally have the head of matt Ishbia. I think

946
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 5: that they would hate everybody running their organization, Like I

947
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:31,800
Speaker 5: just think they're too attached to book. He's the homegrown superstar,

948
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 5: and Katie is the new guy in the outsider and

949
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 5: he's thirty five years old, Like you're mortgaging your entire

950
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 5: future now for a real, real outside shop. Maybe at

951
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 5: true contention, but I do think that that is definitely

952
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 5: a better basketball team than what the Suns had this year.

953
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 5: And I do agree that although all three of these

954
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 5: stars to me are redundant as not great playmaking, not

955
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 5: consistently rim pressuring, not even volume three point shit primarily

956
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 5: on ballplayers, Like there's a reason that this offense, even

957
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 5: with all these stars, was good but not great throughout

958
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 5: this year. All of their issues beating great perimeter defenders

959
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 5: like who Minnesota has off the bounce, like the lack

960
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 5: of real high end quickness.

961
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 4: That is all very very real. But Katie is different.

962
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 5: From the two of them in terms of having different

963
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 5: defensive value. I think just in terms of the size dimension.

964
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 5: To begin with, I just wonder, like that Orlando trade

965
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 5: that you propose, it's funny because I was also thinking

966
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 5: about a trade to an Orlando or in New York,

967
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 5: like one of these teams that you think, Okay, they

968
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 5: want that like superstar shot maker to put them over

969
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 5: the top, and they have a wealth of good role players.

970
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 5: Do you not think you can get two of those

971
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 5: guys back for Katie, Like instead of getting sugs in

972
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 5: Isaac and Wendell Carter, what if it's just sugs in Isaac.

973
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 5: Because I don't think that's an unreasonable haul for Kevin Durant.

974
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 5: And at that point, if I'm getting that sort of

975
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 5: exchange rate, then I would rather have Devin Booker long term.

976
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 5: Because I also don't think Kevin Duranta the best guy

977
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 5: on the title team right now. I think they are

978
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 5: right in the same range. To me, they are both

979
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 5: right outside the top ten.

980
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:05,800
Speaker 4: Players in the league.

981
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 5: They both have very similar limitations, very similar strengths, and

982
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 5: I think we saw all of that play out in

983
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 5: this series. So I don't hate that from like a

984
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 5: pure basketball perspective, But I still don't think that team

985
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 5: is winning the title, and I don't think they can

986
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,399
Speaker 5: trade Devin Booker, and I think you can get good

987
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 5: players back for Kevin Durant because he's Kevin Durant, and

988
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 5: there's gonna be somebody out there, like, think about what

989
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 5: the Suns just did a year and a half ago.

990
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 5: Katie was playing at a higher level at that point,

991
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 5: but they gave a ridiculous haul. You're not gonna get that,

992
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 5: of course, but I still think you can get good

993
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 5: enough players to where it's reasonable to say, Okay, maybe

994
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 5: we could be slightly better giving him up and getting

995
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:46,319
Speaker 5: back quality role players for next year.

996
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: If this was like two k I love that trade, man.

997
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,399
Speaker 1: It just makes so much more sense. You've got two

998
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: guys who can just go and serve buckets, and then

999
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 1: on the backside, they're all complimentary. Isaac's one hell of

1000
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:03,439
Speaker 1: a defensive playmaker too. Yeah, sucks is an awesome point

1001
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: of attack. Guy Wendell Carter I think is really underrated,

1002
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: Like he can stretch the floor a little bit now,

1003
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,319
Speaker 1: he's gritty, grimy on the block. I like him a lot,

1004
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: but I don't man, that's the one thing. Devin Booker

1005
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 1: is the heart and soul of this city. Man, I

1006
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 1: don't think that. I think the fan base would riot.

1007
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: I don't know if they show up the games. I

1008
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 1: understand what you mean, though, Like in terms of just

1009
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 1: straight up trade value, I think you would get more

1010
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 1: for Booked than KD. But I just don't think you

1011
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:30,399
Speaker 1: can do that to the fan base. But I love

1012
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 1: the hypothetical trade. I think that's mutually beneficial to both sides.

1013
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 1: The Magic, who have just this grimy, grimy, nasty offense

1014
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 1: at points, finally gets an offensive creator who's reliable, and

1015
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 1: then Phoenix just has more quality basketball players, which is

1016
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 1: just what they desperately need. So I like the deal.

1017
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 1: I think that if they can get something like that

1018
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: done where they just get more quality guys in terms

1019
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 1: of a two for one, a three for one, I

1020
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,359
Speaker 1: would do it. But I'm with Carson on this one.

1021
00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 6: Man.

1022
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: Kadi's the older asset, and I think that I think

1023
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: it's a positive buy. You know, it's a positive by subtraction.

1024
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: You were just taking out another guy that is going

1025
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: to need the ball in his hands, that wants to

1026
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 1: create for himself, and you're just subbing out. That's how

1027
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 1: I feel at this point with the play. All these guys,

1028
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 1: I don't think any of them are number ones, but

1029
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 1: I think just eliminating another guy who wants the ball

1030
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 1: in his hands is going to do wonders for this

1031
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 1: team and getting a guy who's going.

1032
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:23,959
Speaker 3: To do his job.

1033
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 1: So if it is Katie your book, I'd move off

1034
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,720
Speaker 1: of them. I just don't think you can justify trading

1035
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 1: book away from this fan base.

1036
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 6: Man.

1037
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: Katie's the older guy. These the fans aren't attached to him.

1038
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: I just I think that would rip the heart and

1039
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 1: soul out of the Sun's fan base.

1040
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, for the record, I don't think that'll happen because

1041
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 2: I do think that that would be admitting defeat in

1042
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 2: a certain sense, and I think that there's a like

1043
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:48,879
Speaker 2: a lot of backlash that would come from it. I'm

1044
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,720
Speaker 2: just saying I don't I think I don't think clinging

1045
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 2: to Booker is actually going to be like You're just

1046
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 2: going to be where you are anyway. And so I'm

1047
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 2: saying I kind of view this more or less as

1048
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 2: a small window to begin with, and and I just

1049
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 2: think you're better if you flip him as like the

1050
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 2: more powerful asset to get a return. You know, I

1051
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 2: was talking through some options with the Suns fan yesterday,

1052
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 2: Suns fan friend of mine, and I was just kind of,

1053
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 2: you know, just kind of putting some ideas out there

1054
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 2: in the Knicks related one I came out with because again,

1055
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 2: you're you're looking for a team that has Again, if

1056
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,359
Speaker 2: you're trading Booker, it has to be a younger team,

1057
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 2: right because, like to your point, Carson, I don't think

1058
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 2: you can trade KD to Orlando because why the hell

1059
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 2: would Orlando want KD? Him and Polo play the same position,

1060
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 2: and it's a fundamentally different timeline, and you're you're just

1061
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 2: more optimistic about the long term development of Suggs and Wendell,

1062
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 2: Carter Junior and Isaac. Anyway, right now, when it comes

1063
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 2: to trading KD, you're primarily looking for a team that

1064
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 2: is looking for a secondary star but is on a

1065
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 2: more urgent timeline, and the Knicks are the team that

1066
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 2: kind of make a lot of sense to me. I

1067
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 2: was thinking teams like the Knicks or the Warriors. So

1068
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 2: the Knicks trade would be like if you call New

1069
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 2: York and you want Ogn Nanobi and Mitchell Robinson, like

1070
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 2: something like that, would you make that type of move?

1071
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 2: And I think if the Knicks traded Og Anobi for Katie,

1072
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 2: they'd be there'd be a little bit of a of

1073
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 2: a riot because of OG's contribution during this run. So

1074
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 2: that's what that one's hard to conceptualize. Okay, it's the

1075
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 2: Warriors they go after, you know, Andrew Wiggins and Jonathan

1076
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 2: Kaminga or something like that. Like Warriors fans would not

1077
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 2: like giving up Kaminga. They especially under the tightness of

1078
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 2: the window that they'd have to contend with there. I'm

1079
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:44,720
Speaker 2: not even sure if the Suns would view Andrew Wiggins

1080
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 2: as much of a of a of a you know,

1081
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 2: swing piece for them. It's really hard to conceptualize those

1082
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 2: types of deals because Kadi's value was fundamentally different when

1083
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 2: he was traded to Phoenix than it is now. He

1084
00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 2: was viewed in the Phoenix trade as a guy who

1085
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 2: could put you over the top to win a championship.

1086
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily think teams are gonna see that with

1087
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 2: the same value nowadays. And and and again, it's gonna

1088
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 2: be it's gonna be interesting to see again. I just

1089
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 2: pitched the Booker one because to me, it's about like

1090
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 2: self awareness and identifying that like, as good as Booker is,

1091
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 2: he needs to be the Kyrie to a Lebron or Luca,

1092
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 2: not the not the guy that you're actually building around.

1093
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 2: And so you don't have that guy. So like maybe

1094
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 2: maybe that is the case. Maybe you look at it

1095
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:31,720
Speaker 2: more in terms of draft compensation, and you flip Booker

1096
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 2: for just a shit ton of draft compensation and then

1097
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 2: you're fun and entertaining and you're a mediocre playoff team

1098
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:40,280
Speaker 2: with Katie and Beale while you build through the draft.

1099
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 2: Like I don't know, but like the point is is

1100
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 2: we and we started this conversation at the top of

1101
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 2: the topic, but they're just they're just screwed. Yeah, there's

1102
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 2: there's no real way around it. Were we are discussing

1103
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,360
Speaker 2: a lot of we're discussing a poo poo platter of options.

1104
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 3: So so it is what.

1105
00:52:58,160 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 2: It is at this point. All right, let's move on

1106
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 2: to like Nuggets. So I think the series is over. Personally,

1107
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 2: I think the Nuggets are gonna win convincingly tonight. I

1108
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 2: think they're gonna win by double figures, even if Jamal

1109
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 2: Murray doesn't play. And the main reason why is I

1110
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 2: think the Nuggets are better than the Los Angeles Lakers.

1111
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 2: And I also think that they've been kind of operating

1112
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:20,799
Speaker 2: at that like eighty five ninety percent, Like they're engaged

1113
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 2: and they're trying, but they're not desperate and urgent. Desperate

1114
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 2: and urgent is a whole other level, and you cannot

1115
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,800
Speaker 2: manufacture that. You can't fake that. You either feel it

1116
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:33,719
Speaker 2: or you don't. And certainly the Lakers in Game four

1117
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 2: brought an urgency and desperation that Denver doesn't have. I

1118
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 2: think Denver will approach Game five like that, because they

1119
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 2: sure as hell don't want to come back to the

1120
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,720
Speaker 2: Lakers home building for Game six and then find themselves

1121
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 2: in a position where they might have to play Game seven.

1122
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:48,439
Speaker 2: So I think we're gonna get a must win effor

1123
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 2: from the Nuggets tonight, and I think they're going to

1124
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 2: win convincingly. That said, if I'm a Lakers fan and

1125
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:58,399
Speaker 2: I'm looking for some reasons for optimism, first of all,

1126
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 2: the Lakers have actually won the half. They're getting ninety

1127
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 2: eight points per one hundred half court plays. The Nuggets

1128
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,240
Speaker 2: are only getting ninety six. Now the Nuggets are mitigating

1129
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,359
Speaker 2: that on the offensive glass, although the Lakers did hold

1130
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 2: up better on the glass in Game four. In addition

1131
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 2: to that, the Lakers have led the vast majority of

1132
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 2: the series. So I do think the Lakers have a

1133
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:19,839
Speaker 2: chance to go in and beat Denver tonight.

1134
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 3: I just don't believe they will. So let's start with you, Carson.

1135
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 2: Do you are you worried about the Nuggets at all,

1136
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,359
Speaker 2: like Jamal Murray's calf. Is that something that you think

1137
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 2: brings some sort of of you know, risk into this

1138
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:35,839
Speaker 2: equation or do you think the series is over?

1139
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 5: This series is over to me just because we have

1140
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 5: consistently seen throughout this year the level that Denver plays

1141
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 5: out in these clutch situations, and it's absolutely ridiculous. When

1142
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:48,880
Speaker 5: they batten down the hatches, they can defend at a

1143
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 5: really high level, and they just have the best offensive

1144
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 5: formula in basketball. That being said, Jamal is really really

1145
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:59,360
Speaker 5: really struggling right now. The efficiency has been absolutely brutal

1146
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 5: throughout this series. He's been super religant on those pull

1147
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,399
Speaker 5: up jumpers as he often is, but they just are

1148
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 5: not falling in this one. La checked a lot of

1149
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 5: the boxes that they need to in Game four, and

1150
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:14,880
Speaker 5: that you've consistently had great offensive ad throughout this series,

1151
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:17,279
Speaker 5: who has given Jokic work in single coverage and has

1152
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 5: been so effective out of pick and roll. His touch

1153
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,240
Speaker 5: shot making has just been incredible. He was also phenomenal

1154
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 5: on the glass, and I thought that was his best

1155
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 5: defensive game. You had that hyper aggressive Lebron that we got,

1156
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 5: similar to Game four last year, when I thought he

1157
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:33,919
Speaker 5: was phenomenal, where he's just not messing around, Like, yes,

1158
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:36,359
Speaker 5: his jumper has been amazing this year, but he is

1159
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 5: just going to physically bully you, relentless mismatch attacking some

1160
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:42,359
Speaker 5: of the guys who held up on him in Game

1161
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 5: two down the stretch off switches, Jamal Murray, Christian Brown

1162
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 5: KCP was his primary assignment down the stretch of Game two,

1163
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 5: Like he was just bullying those dudes. It was such

1164
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,720
Speaker 5: an efficient offensive performance, the cutting off of the eighty

1165
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 5: short role, and then you got the d Lo and

1166
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 5: Austin Reeves that you've needed all series. Those guys were

1167
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 5: awesome his pull up shooters, so like that was the

1168
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 5: vision for how this Lakers team could make this a

1169
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 5: legitimate series. But I think the moment has passed. I

1170
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,440
Speaker 5: think it's just way too little, too late, and Denver

1171
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 5: has not thrown anything close, anything close to their best punch. Like, yeah,

1172
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,319
Speaker 5: what they did in terms of that comeback in Game

1173
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 5: two was remarkable, but this team is having a horrible

1174
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,359
Speaker 5: shooting series. They're twenty seven percent from deep. They are

1175
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 5: starting every single game super slow. In that regard, Jamal

1176
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 5: cannot play worse than he has. I legitimately just don't

1177
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 5: think he can. Like this has been such a bad

1178
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 5: version of Jamal Murray. And so then it's like with

1179
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,280
Speaker 5: overwhelmingly the best player on the floor with a supporting

1180
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 5: cast that has consistently been a lot better that Lakers

1181
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 5: supporting cast was so bad games one through three uncharacteristically,

1182
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 5: so I would say, But also just this beautifully assembled

1183
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 5: starting five that Denver has, where everybody fills their role

1184
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:57,240
Speaker 5: at such a high level, like that is so reliable.

1185
00:56:57,239 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 5: That is how you go up three to one when

1186
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 5: you are I think, a bad shooting series. So I

1187
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 5: don't really see a path for the Lakers. I'm interested

1188
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 5: in how they approach it. I'm interested in how hard

1189
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 5: they are doubling Jokic from the jump, because I think

1190
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 5: that we saw them find some success with that down

1191
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 5: the stretch of last game, just even when he's making

1192
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:16,920
Speaker 5: accurate cross court passes at least getting the ball out

1193
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 5: of his hands, forcing the Nuggets spot up shooters to

1194
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 5: beat you.

1195
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 4: And they've been struggling.

1196
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 5: But I don't think there's a good answer against Yokich,

1197
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 5: I think he's gonna kind of pick you apart no

1198
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 5: matter what you do. And if the Nuggets come out

1199
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 5: with intention and they don't get sloppy with the ball

1200
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:33,439
Speaker 5: like they did in this past game, if Jokic gives

1201
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 5: a better effort defensively, then he has I think he's

1202
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 5: generally been pretty poor there in this series. Like they're

1203
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 5: just the way better team. So I don't see any

1204
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 5: prayer for LA winning this series. Like you are facing

1205
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 5: a much better team and you're down three to one,

1206
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 5: and that team hasn't played close to their potential.

1207
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't overstate how poor Denver's come out of

1208
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 1: the gates in this series. There's a stretch in this

1209
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 1: last game too, in the second quarter or first the

1210
00:57:58,120 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 1: second quarter, you know they can make eight turn of

1211
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: Like it's just uncharacteristically bad Denver Nuggets basketball. And on

1212
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: the flip side of this, like we got a great

1213
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 1: Lakers game, like you said, Carson, every box got checked

1214
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 1: for l eight and yet in the fourth quarter, Denver's

1215
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 1: right there like lingering around. I'm sitting there waiting for

1216
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: Denver to just you know, It's like I'm just waiting

1217
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 1: for Denver to stop playing. Oh I'm gonna stop playing now,

1218
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 1: you know, like when you're you know, you're just joking

1219
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 1: around and pick up and it's like, all right, I'm

1220
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna flip it on. We're just gonna close

1221
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 1: the door here. That's how it felt in game four.

1222
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 1: I'm just waiting for Denver to stop playing with their

1223
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 1: food like That's kind of how I felt all series long.

1224
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 1: And I don't know if we can expect this level

1225
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 1: from Lebron every night out, you know what I mean.

1226
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 1: And we got great Anthony Davis, we got Delo and

1227
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: Reeves doing their thing. Can Lebron consistently do this like

1228
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: he controlled? He controlled this last game, And I don't

1229
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 1: know if we can anticipate this every single possession. The

1230
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: mismatch attacking was brilliant, The cut off ball, the just

1231
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 1: shot quality he generated was elite. And uh, yeah, I

1232
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 1: think this series is over. I think Denver is just

1233
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 1: a better team. There are things that I think that

1234
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 1: LA can do, but yeah, I don't think Denver has

1235
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 1: played anywhere up to their expectations. And I think we

1236
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 1: can get a perfect Lakers game, and we can get

1237
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: a really bad Nuggets game and They're always just going

1238
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 1: to be right there. Like I think the Nuggets can

1239
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 1: play their worst brand of basketball and still just be

1240
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 1: within ten. That's not enough for me. Like Denver can

1241
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 1: close the gap. It feels like at any given moment.

1242
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 1: And that's why I just don't think you can ever

1243
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 1: put the Nuggets to bit. And I do think they're

1244
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 1: gonna take care of business tonight. Like I there just

1245
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 1: comes a point where I expect them to shoot better.

1246
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:46,479
Speaker 1: I expect them all to have a decent game. They're

1247
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 1: just a better team. And I think the Lakers have

1248
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 1: to play perfect basketball to beat Denver. There is zero

1249
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 1: margin for error for the Lakers.

1250
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, when they toasted off any margin for r

1251
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 2: they had in Game two, like that, there was a pathway.

1252
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 2: I Denver is a substantial favorite coming into this series,

1253
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 2: but there was the one pathway for the Lakers was

1254
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 2: kind of what happened. You steal a game in Denver

1255
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 2: and then one of the Nuggets starters kind of gets

1256
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:18,439
Speaker 2: banged up, slash hurt, and suddenly the kind of calculus changes, right,

1257
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:20,680
Speaker 2: and had they won Game two.

1258
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 3: And split in La and it was two to.

1259
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:26,919
Speaker 2: Two and Jamal Murray was injured in some way, shape

1260
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 2: or form, like then there was a chance for the

1261
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 2: Lakers to kind of shoot through that gap, but that's

1262
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:34,479
Speaker 2: not what happened. You toasted off Game two, and now

1263
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:37,080
Speaker 2: it's not so much about the dynamic because like again,

1264
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 2: if it was two two and you're going back to Denver,

1265
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 2: I would have this more like a sixty five thirty

1266
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:44,600
Speaker 2: five Denver type of thing where I would give the

1267
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 2: Lakers a legitimate chance because they have led the majority

1268
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 2: of the series. They have held up in the half court,

1269
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 2: they have gotten stronger in some specific areas. They've been

1270
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 2: better at weathering Denver's runs over the course of the series.

1271
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 2: I thought they were really good in the third quarter

1272
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 2: of the last game. Specifically, they've really destroyed Denver's defense

1273
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 2: on the back line. They've had back to back games

1274
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 2: with seventy plus points in the paint, so like they've

1275
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 2: they've figured out a lot of stuff, but beat one stretch,

1276
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 2: which was the twenty point blown lead in Game two,

1277
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 2: basically made it so they have to be perfect. And

1278
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 2: so as a result of that, it's just too much

1279
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:24,520
Speaker 2: to ask. Like it's funny, like the op the one

1280
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 2: thing that would make me think the Lakers have a

1281
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 2: small chance of coming back from three to zero would

1282
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:33,280
Speaker 2: be if Jamal Murray did not play tonight and it

1283
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 2: came out that like he literally needed to take a

1284
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 2: week off because of the CAF strain. If that happened,

1285
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 2: I give the Lakers a small chance. But even if

1286
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:43,960
Speaker 2: that happened, I would still pick Denver because Joki is

1287
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 2: still the best player in the series, because they do

1288
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 2: have two of the next three games at home, because

1289
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 2: the Lakers do have a tendency to go of the

1290
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 2: rope from time to time, and it's not so much

1291
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 2: whether or not they would do it in Game five,

1292
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 2: it's just at some point before Game seven is over,

1293
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 2: they would let go of the rope for like ten

1294
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 2: ten minutes, and Yokich would blitz them by fifteen seventeen

1295
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 2: points and it would just be too much and it'd

1296
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 2: be over. And so I'm picking Denver no matter what.

1297
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 2: But whatever little tiny crack there was, they blew it

1298
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 2: in Game two. That was the game you have to win.

1299
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 2: Like the better team wins the best of seven the

1300
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 2: vast majority of the time, but there are occasional times

1301
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 2: when there's an upset, and it usually involves a weird

1302
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,919
Speaker 2: game early in the series and then some sort of injury, right,

1303
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 2: and like what ended up happening is they didn't get

1304
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:27,560
Speaker 2: that weird game in the beginning of the series, and

1305
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 2: now they're in a position where they're down three to

1306
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 2: one and it's just too much to ask. So yeah,

1307
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 2: I think it's over, but I did think it was

1308
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 2: worth checking in on. And like, here's the thing, It's

1309
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 2: gonna be a fun game. Like I think tonight is

1310
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:38,840
Speaker 2: gonna be a fun game. It's gonna be a Lakers

1311
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:41,400
Speaker 2: team that thinks they can win and a Nuggets team

1312
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 2: that needs to win, and I think it's gonna be

1313
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 2: I think we're gonna get a really strong indicator of

1314
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 2: the gap between the two teams. And that's why I

1315
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 2: think Denver's gonna win by double digits. I think they're

1316
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:51,240
Speaker 2: gonna put their foot down and I think they're gonna

1317
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 2: get it done, all right. Moving on to MAVs Clippers.

1318
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 2: So this series is so funny because like the narrative

1319
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 2: is as has kind of shifted back and forth on

1320
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 2: these like weird concepts. So like on the MAVs front,

1321
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:08,080
Speaker 2: there's all this talk about you know, Luka on defense

1322
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 2: and whether or not he can guard some of these guys,

1323
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 2: and it's like game one he just gets cooked, and

1324
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 2: then game two he like locks everybody up, and then

1325
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:19,439
Speaker 2: game four he just gets cooked. And it's like it's

1326
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 2: kind of bizarre. And then on the Clipper side, it's

1327
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 2: like something that I don't necessarily agree with, this idea

1328
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 2: that the Clippers are better without Kawhi that I don't

1329
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 2: agree with. There's no doubt that Kawhi is not at

1330
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:33,480
Speaker 2: one hundred percent. I don't think Kawhi being out on

1331
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 2: the floor barely shooting is the reason why Paul George

1332
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 2: had seven points in Game three. I think that's on

1333
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 2: Paul George, so like, so I don't necessarily lean into that.

1334
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 2: So like, the narrative has kind of swung on these

1335
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 2: two concepts, and I think it's silly because the truth

1336
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 2: of the matter is is the Clippers are the Clippers

1337
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 2: whether or not Kawhi's out there. They still have a

1338
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 2: lot of talent and identity that they play with. And

1339
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 2: then on the Mavericks front, like they really should stop

1340
01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 2: leaving Luca in these damn switches to begin with, that

1341
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 2: just shouldn't even be a factor. I cannot believe that

1342
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 2: through four games they're still switching Luca onto perimeter guys

1343
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 2: like they've shown. I've seen it in the tape. They

1344
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 2: can pre switch and they can send a guy up

1345
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 2: that's not Luca into the screening action. They are still

1346
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 2: yet to try hedging and recovering with Luca on a

1347
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:16,720
Speaker 2: guy like Terrence Man or Russell Westbrook that's not a

1348
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 2: movement shooter. Like, there's still stuff on the table. There

1349
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 2: so many better options than watching James Harden drive right

1350
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 2: around Luka donci. So like the as far as I'm concerned,

1351
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 2: the series is dead even it was dead even in

1352
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:32,919
Speaker 2: half court shot creation going into game four. The game

1353
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 2: four was a shit show of like the good and

1354
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:38,720
Speaker 2: bad of both teams. I've honestly been generally unimpressed by both.

1355
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:39,800
Speaker 3: Teams in the series.

1356
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, interestingly enough, But like here we are to two

1357
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 2: game five coming up, I think tomorrow, let's start with you, Logan,

1358
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 2: where are you at with the series?

1359
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:48,840
Speaker 3: Man?

1360
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 1: Well, first, I'm doing the rounds basically everywhere. The people

1361
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:58,400
Speaker 1: have been clamoring for me to announce apologies to James Harden.

1362
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:00,680
Speaker 1: You know, I'm going on my world tour right now now, Jason,

1363
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:02,040
Speaker 1: So I guess I'll get it out the way here.

1364
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 1: I uttered the hello W word about James Harden earlier

1365
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 1: on our show. I called him washed. I was wrong, James,

1366
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 1: I once again apologized. I got a basket of muffins

1367
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:16,960
Speaker 1: and you know, like puppies and you know, stuffed animals

1368
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: on the way. James Harden's been the best player, you know,

1369
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:23,440
Speaker 1: in this series, something that I didn't expect coming into this. Man.

1370
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 1: I have been so impressed with him knocking down his

1371
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 1: pull up jump shots, getting into the teeth of the

1372
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:33,320
Speaker 1: defense last game, specifically, my hat off to James man

1373
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 1: getting downhill on PJ getting downhill on Luka Doncic. I

1374
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:38,439
Speaker 1: do want to mention I thought that Mavericks just made

1375
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 1: a fundamental misstep by not having Gafford or Lively out

1376
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 1: there in the fourth quarter. We got a ton of

1377
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 1: Maxi Kleeba at the five, and I thought with how Harden.

1378
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,040
Speaker 1: Harden had fifteen points in the fourth quarter on six

1379
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 1: of eight shooting, consistently got to that float range, and

1380
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 1: you got a guy like Klieba who's not a vertical

1381
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 1: athlete at all, there's nobody to challenge him at the

1382
01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 1: rim like Cleeba was getting beat by Harden on these floors,

1383
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 1: and then he's getting beat on the back line by

1384
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 1: Mason freaking plumbley man, Like Jason, you made a trade

1385
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:10,440
Speaker 1: for Daniel Gafford so you could play a great vertical

1386
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:13,720
Speaker 1: athlete and rint protector forty eight minutes, twenty four and

1387
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 1: twenty four. However, you want to stagger it like Lively

1388
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:19,680
Speaker 1: gets eighteen minutes, Gafford gets eighteen minutes, and you're giving

1389
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:22,600
Speaker 1: Kaliba twenty one minutes. I like the fact that Kliba

1390
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 1: can give you a different look as a floor spacer.

1391
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: Is a big, physical guy that maybe you want to

1392
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:30,760
Speaker 1: put on George or Leonard for stretches. But him at

1393
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 1: the five, when Harden is getting downhill every possession just

1394
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:37,400
Speaker 1: foolish to me. I want more Gafford, I want more Lively,

1395
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: but James Harden was doing his thing. And on the

1396
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:43,360
Speaker 1: verse of this, the biggest key to me, guys, is

1397
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:47,440
Speaker 1: the fact that we haven't gotten star level Luka Doncic.

1398
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 1: This is ugly. This is horrid basketball that we're seeing

1399
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 1: from Luca. The counting numbers are fine, right, he's twenty

1400
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 1: nine points tens of nine as sist Yeah, yeah, they're

1401
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 1: always gonna be with Luca. But he's thirty nine percent

1402
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 1: from the field, twenty seven percent from deep, fifty one

1403
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:07,520
Speaker 1: percent for shooting with four turnovers a game like this

1404
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 1: is and he's just getting abused defensively in some of

1405
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 1: these games, man. And it's funny you talk about some

1406
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:16,040
Speaker 1: of those narratives, Jason. We got game one, Luca's a

1407
01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 1: bad defender, Luca's a bad defender, and then we get

1408
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 1: game two. In game three and it's people throwing parades.

1409
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 1: I told you, guys, Luca was the best defender on

1410
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:25,120
Speaker 1: planet Earth. Why didn't you listen to me? And then

1411
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:29,919
Speaker 1: the pendulum swings back on Twitter. Bottom line, I said

1412
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: this on our show last night, but if Luka Doncic

1413
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 1: is not the best player in this series with no

1414
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:37,560
Speaker 1: Kawhi Leonard, the Mavericks aren't gonna win. Like Kyrie Irving

1415
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 1: is doing a super human effort in these horrible offensive

1416
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:44,520
Speaker 1: stretches from Dallas to keep them in these games, like

1417
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 1: knocking down these tough shots, consistently generating great shots, and

1418
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 1: Luca's not pulling his weight. I'm glad he realizes it.

1419
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:55,440
Speaker 1: In the postgame presser, he goes, I feel like I'm

1420
01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 1: letting down Kyrie. I'm glad he recognizes it, but to me,

1421
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:02,880
Speaker 1: it's about getting downhill more, not settling as much for

1422
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 1: his three point jumper. Like when Lucas hitting these shots,

1423
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:07,200
Speaker 1: it's a good look to go to and when he

1424
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 1: gets Zoo on him, it's like he's gonna make that

1425
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:11,640
Speaker 1: shot every time. I just expect that jumper to go in,

1426
01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:14,360
Speaker 1: so maybe keep going to the step back on suit switches,

1427
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 1: but I need him to get down hill more and

1428
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:19,240
Speaker 1: to get into the teeth of the defense for It's

1429
01:08:19,280 --> 01:08:22,320
Speaker 1: like the Jalen Brunson quotion. Like Brunton settling for a

1430
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:24,920
Speaker 1: pull up jumper is a good shot, Luca's settling for

1431
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 1: a pull up jumper is a good shot, but it's

1432
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 1: not the best shot that you could generate every possession.

1433
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:32,120
Speaker 1: And what you're doing when you're settling for this jumper

1434
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 1: is you're leaving yourself susceptible to long rebounds. You're also

1435
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:39,439
Speaker 1: letting the Clippers defense just keep their breath, get their

1436
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:44,559
Speaker 1: energy back up, and you're putting yourself in a bad

1437
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:47,120
Speaker 1: situation and transition defense where you got to go and

1438
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:50,240
Speaker 1: set up your defense fast, and you're leaving your self

1439
01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 1: susceptible to easy transition buckets on the other end. So

1440
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 1: I need Luca to be more engaged defensively. I need

1441
01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:58,599
Speaker 1: him to get downhill more and to generate better, high

1442
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:01,680
Speaker 1: quality shots for his teammates. And I need him to

1443
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:05,000
Speaker 1: lean into the physicality of this series. I do want

1444
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:06,760
Speaker 1: to give a lot of credits to the Clippers. I

1445
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:08,680
Speaker 1: think they've done a good job with ball pressure and

1446
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:11,720
Speaker 1: activity and making life hard on Luca. But Luca is

1447
01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:14,800
Speaker 1: not playing anywhere close to his standards or the level

1448
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:17,120
Speaker 1: that he should be at. And again, if he's not

1449
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 1: going to be the best player on the court, Dallas

1450
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:20,519
Speaker 1: is not going to win this series.

1451
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:20,680
Speaker 3: Man.

1452
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:22,600
Speaker 1: He needs to play like the top three players that

1453
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:23,800
Speaker 1: we all know he is.

1454
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:29,559
Speaker 5: It's a brutal series from Luca and Dallas is very

1455
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:33,040
Speaker 5: fortunate that healthy Kawhi hasn't been out there, because the

1456
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:34,920
Speaker 5: Kawhi we saw in Games two and three just was

1457
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:37,280
Speaker 5: not close to the guy who he normally is, or

1458
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 5: I don't think that they would be on even footing

1459
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:40,040
Speaker 5: in this series like.

1460
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 4: They have been.

1461
01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:43,599
Speaker 5: Beyond underwhelming. This was a team that I was very

1462
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:45,600
Speaker 5: high on down the stretch of the regular season, and

1463
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:49,240
Speaker 5: they've had two catastrophics starts of this series, like two

1464
01:09:49,240 --> 01:09:51,840
Speaker 5: of the worst starts that we've seen from anybody in

1465
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:54,960
Speaker 5: games one and four, and Luca's just not playing at

1466
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:56,599
Speaker 5: the level that he needs to. He's not playing close

1467
01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:58,880
Speaker 5: to that level right now. The biggest thing, logan is

1468
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:03,160
Speaker 5: what you hit on the refusal to consistently get downhill.

1469
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:07,000
Speaker 5: Lucas attempted seven shots in the restricted area in this series.

1470
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:10,600
Speaker 5: In his previous two playoff meetings against the Clippers in

1471
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:13,680
Speaker 5: twenty twenty and twenty one, he was averaging five and

1472
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:17,799
Speaker 5: a half restricted area attempts per game. And I understand

1473
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 5: that he tweaked his knee in Game three, so maybe

1474
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:22,640
Speaker 5: that's a factor. But this was a glaring problem in

1475
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:25,280
Speaker 5: games one and two. And he is still capable of

1476
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 5: getting a step off of switches, and when he does,

1477
01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:30,839
Speaker 5: there are good results. He gets a step on Mason Plumley,

1478
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:33,280
Speaker 5: he draws a foul, he gets a step off a switch,

1479
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 5: passes cuts, gets a layup like when he hits the paint.

1480
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:37,599
Speaker 4: He just has the best set.

1481
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 5: Of options available because the guy shoots fifty five percent

1482
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:42,639
Speaker 5: on floaters, He can draw fouls, he can make every

1483
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 5: pass in the book, every lob every skip pass, et cetera.

1484
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:49,880
Speaker 5: And when he is so overwhelmingly reliant on tough pull

1485
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 5: up jumpers and they aren't falling, it's just not good offense.

1486
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 5: And that's the thing to me, Logan, you talk about

1487
01:10:57,240 --> 01:10:59,400
Speaker 5: how they aren't bad shots. No, in the regular season,

1488
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:01,320
Speaker 5: they aren't. Luke he shoots thirty eight percent on step

1489
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:04,519
Speaker 5: back three. He's capable of nuclear performances. That's what he

1490
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:07,960
Speaker 5: did to the Clippers in their previous two playoff meetings. Like, yes,

1491
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:09,719
Speaker 5: he was pressuring the rim a lot, but he also

1492
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 5: would not miss his step back threes. But when you

1493
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:15,280
Speaker 5: have game after game after game, these shots are not falling, Like,

1494
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 5: get into the paint, man, because that is where you

1495
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:20,840
Speaker 5: are most problematic. And I have been so disappointed in

1496
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 5: him because Kyrie has had some slow starts, but he's

1497
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:27,920
Speaker 5: also had these ridiculous stretches and overall he's averaging twenty

1498
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:30,400
Speaker 5: nine points per game on sixty five percent true shooting.

1499
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:33,679
Speaker 5: With that, Kyrie, like, you just have to be winning

1500
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:36,320
Speaker 5: these games. And Luca, to me, is the primary reason

1501
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:38,840
Speaker 5: that they are in the spot that they are right now.

1502
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:40,519
Speaker 5: But you do have to give props to James Harden

1503
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:42,200
Speaker 5: on the flip side, because he's been the best player

1504
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:45,120
Speaker 5: on the floor. The efficiency is remarkable, the control of

1505
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:48,479
Speaker 5: the game, and Jason, you mentioned how they just keep

1506
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:52,000
Speaker 5: on switching those actions and letting him hunt Lukadancic, and

1507
01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:54,080
Speaker 5: he has been getting a step so easily in this

1508
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:56,200
Speaker 5: series for the most part, Games one and four, it's

1509
01:11:56,320 --> 01:12:00,280
Speaker 5: like unbelievably poor defense from Luca. I do want to

1510
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:02,800
Speaker 5: give them props, at least for in those last two

1511
01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 5: minutes or so. They did pre switch, they did trap

1512
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:09,920
Speaker 5: to switch. They had PJ. Washington just fight through a

1513
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:12,599
Speaker 5: screen and stay on. They refuse to switch like at

1514
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:15,679
Speaker 5: least for the final couple minutes. They didn't let James

1515
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:18,720
Speaker 5: Harden hunt Luca like food, and he still made light

1516
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:19,920
Speaker 5: work of Peg both.

1517
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:20,479
Speaker 3: Of those guys.

1518
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:24,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was effortless. He was getting a step so easily.

1519
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:27,000
Speaker 5: He got a step easily on Kliba. That's the problem.

1520
01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:30,240
Speaker 5: When Harden is like this lethal as a step back shooter.

1521
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:32,880
Speaker 5: These dudes are having to guard him up tight thirty

1522
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:34,520
Speaker 5: feet out and they just don't.

1523
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:35,280
Speaker 4: Have the foot speed.

1524
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:39,640
Speaker 5: So Dallas's defense there have been a sort of bipolar

1525
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:42,680
Speaker 5: performances from then. But Game two was also just incredible

1526
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 5: shot making or sorry. Game four was incredible shot making

1527
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 5: from both Harden and PG.

1528
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:49,600
Speaker 4: I feel like Dallas should.

1529
01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:52,680
Speaker 5: Still win this series because ultimately I think Luca and

1530
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:56,920
Speaker 5: Kyrie should be able to outplay PG and James Harden.

1531
01:12:57,040 --> 01:13:00,680
Speaker 5: And then even though the offensive consistency from Dallas's role

1532
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:04,360
Speaker 5: players are questionable, and we've seen La able to trap

1533
01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:07,040
Speaker 5: Luca and Kyrie and sometimes just say okay, you guys

1534
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:09,160
Speaker 5: beat us with a four on three, make good decisions,

1535
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:11,760
Speaker 5: knock down your spot up jumpers. The supporting cast can't

1536
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:15,000
Speaker 5: always do that, but Dallas still should be able to

1537
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:17,640
Speaker 5: hang defensively. They still should be able to hang in

1538
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:20,120
Speaker 5: the physicality like they've just come out and gotten punched

1539
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 5: in the mouth in a couple series and the offense

1540
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:25,000
Speaker 5: has gotten off to brutally slow starts, largely because of

1541
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:26,640
Speaker 5: the level that Luca has been playing at. If he

1542
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:29,040
Speaker 5: can turn this around, I still think Dallas should win.

1543
01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:32,640
Speaker 5: If he can't, they probably won't even without Kawhi on

1544
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:37,760
Speaker 5: the floor, because you're just dedicating so much volume in

1545
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:39,880
Speaker 5: your offense to him no matter what, and he's not

1546
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 5: delivering the return on investment for that right now.

1547
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:46,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, to put it simply the I lean more towards

1548
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:50,599
Speaker 2: the the Mavericks to close this thing out in six games,

1549
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:53,680
Speaker 2: mainly just because outside of two stretches, they've been the

1550
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:56,240
Speaker 2: better team. It just so happens that those two stretches

1551
01:13:56,280 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 2: have been catastrophed, like unlike like put yourself so far

1552
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:05,920
Speaker 2: behind that you're hopeless type of bad stretches, and they

1553
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:07,760
Speaker 2: were both in the first halves of Game one in

1554
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:11,120
Speaker 2: Game four, and outside of those stretches, the MAVs have

1555
01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:13,400
Speaker 2: basically controlled the series.

1556
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:15,000
Speaker 3: And that's the thing.

1557
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:17,800
Speaker 2: Now, whether or not that reflects poorly on the MAVs

1558
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:20,680
Speaker 2: as a championship threat, that's another discussion, because even if

1559
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:22,720
Speaker 2: they do get out of this series, like, how could

1560
01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:26,640
Speaker 2: you expect them to beat three teams like the Thunder,

1561
01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 2: the Nuggets, or Wolves and the Celtics when they just

1562
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:33,599
Speaker 2: are so prone to these bad, bad stretches. But as

1563
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:36,360
Speaker 2: far as the as far as the Luca dynamic goes,

1564
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:38,840
Speaker 2: there's a lot of focus on the knee, and like,

1565
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:43,240
Speaker 2: here's the thing. Everyone's hurt all around the league. Donovan

1566
01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 2: Mitchell's playing on.

1567
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:44,439
Speaker 3: A bad knee.

1568
01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:46,000
Speaker 2: Kawhi Leonard when he's out there is playing on a

1569
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:48,880
Speaker 2: bad knee, Joel Embiid's playing on a bad knee, everyone's hurt.

1570
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:51,400
Speaker 2: Jamal Murray's going to play a night on a bad calf.

1571
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 2: And the bottom line is even when you are hurt, Luca,

1572
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:57,519
Speaker 2: you should be able to outplay this version of James Harden,

1573
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:00,559
Speaker 2: you should be able to outplay this version of Paul

1574
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:03,280
Speaker 2: George and so and to make it, just to put

1575
01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:05,760
Speaker 2: it plainly, it doesn't matter. You don't get it a

1576
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:07,439
Speaker 2: little asterisk and you get to move on to the

1577
01:15:07,439 --> 01:15:09,479
Speaker 2: second round because you were hurt. You gotta find a way.

1578
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:11,880
Speaker 2: You just have to find a way. And and so again,

1579
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 2: it's not so much about I think, because I honestly

1580
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:17,880
Speaker 2: think even this version of Luca and Kyrie is enough

1581
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:21,480
Speaker 2: if they can avoid the super super super ugly stretches.

1582
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:23,960
Speaker 2: I just think they're a little bit more dynamic in transition.

1583
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:26,320
Speaker 2: They're just a little bit more dynamic when they get

1584
01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:27,880
Speaker 2: going on both ends of the floor, and we've seen

1585
01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:31,120
Speaker 2: that in their big runs. But yeah, they just they

1586
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:32,559
Speaker 2: need to get more out of Luca. They need to

1587
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:34,439
Speaker 2: avoid some of these ugly stretches. I think they're gonna

1588
01:15:34,439 --> 01:15:35,880
Speaker 2: win Game five and then come home and win in

1589
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:38,519
Speaker 2: game six, So I'm picking the Mavericks. But yeah, definitely

1590
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:40,439
Speaker 2: a strange series. And here's the last thing I'll say

1591
01:15:40,439 --> 01:15:43,120
Speaker 2: in the Luca front, Like Luca fans they want us

1592
01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:44,800
Speaker 2: to they want they think this guy's the best player

1593
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:47,120
Speaker 2: in the world. That's what they think this guy is.

1594
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:50,880
Speaker 2: And and it's been they've been acting all year long

1595
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:54,600
Speaker 2: like he's been disrespected and he hasn't gotten the appropriate

1596
01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 2: amount of respect, and he should have won MVP, and

1597
01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:59,759
Speaker 2: he's playing better than Jokic and all these different things,

1598
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:02,080
Speaker 2: and it's like, say what you want about that Lakers

1599
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:05,400
Speaker 2: Nuggets series. Jokic has just still been clearly the best

1600
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:08,000
Speaker 2: player in the series, like by by, by far, and

1601
01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:11,640
Speaker 2: it's like the reality is is if you want that recognition,

1602
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:14,160
Speaker 2: if you want to be included on that tier, you

1603
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:18,360
Speaker 2: can't be made to look this ineffective in a playoff series.

1604
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:20,680
Speaker 3: And again, like I want, I want to credit the Clippers.

1605
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 2: I think Russell Westbrook and Terrence Man have both done

1606
01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:25,400
Speaker 2: an amazing job. I think the big thing has been

1607
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:28,680
Speaker 2: their back pressure. There's They're in Luca's head in the

1608
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:31,120
Speaker 2: sense that he knows if he gets downhill, Russ is

1609
01:16:31,160 --> 01:16:34,599
Speaker 2: coming flying in from behind. Trying to do something crazy,

1610
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:36,559
Speaker 2: and Russ has a little bit of a recklessness to

1611
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:38,760
Speaker 2: him that I think is that that I think is

1612
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:41,640
Speaker 2: a little bit that has Luca a little bit unsettled.

1613
01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:44,559
Speaker 2: And like again, it's just I think even the best

1614
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:46,799
Speaker 2: players in the world are capable of having bad stretches

1615
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:49,960
Speaker 2: and overcoming them, and I believe Luca will, and I

1616
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:52,920
Speaker 2: think that we'll see the Luca. I think mid next round,

1617
01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:55,360
Speaker 2: after they beat the Clippers, I think we'll see Luca

1618
01:16:55,479 --> 01:16:58,120
Speaker 2: kind of recapture some of what makes him great. But

1619
01:16:58,160 --> 01:17:00,080
Speaker 2: like at the same time, it's like next round to

1620
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:02,240
Speaker 2: be lou Dort waiting for you and guess what he

1621
01:17:02,280 --> 01:17:04,639
Speaker 2: did to brandon Ingram, you know, So, like it ain't

1622
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:06,719
Speaker 2: gonna get any easier. He's got he's got to find

1623
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:09,559
Speaker 2: a way to figure this out. But to put it simply,

1624
01:17:09,880 --> 01:17:13,320
Speaker 2: like with Kawhi not really being a factor, you have

1625
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 2: two must win playoff games coming up. Are you taking

1626
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:17,320
Speaker 2: Luca and Kyrie or are you taking Paul George and

1627
01:17:17,400 --> 01:17:20,040
Speaker 2: James Harden And I'm taking Luca and Kyrie. All right,

1628
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:21,320
Speaker 2: before we get out of here, we're gonna talk six

1629
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:24,800
Speaker 2: Ers Nicks for a few minutes. I went into the

1630
01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:27,400
Speaker 2: series really really on the fence, and then I ended

1631
01:17:27,479 --> 01:17:29,599
Speaker 2: up picking the Sixers based on their half court shot creation.

1632
01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:32,439
Speaker 2: And the main idea was I just thought Embiid and

1633
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:35,040
Speaker 2: MAXI would be able to generate more high quality shots

1634
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:37,640
Speaker 2: and the slow down half court environment than Brunson effectively

1635
01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 2: by himself. And that did bear out in the first

1636
01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:43,080
Speaker 2: three games of the series in the sense that the

1637
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:46,880
Speaker 2: Sixers were the substantially better half court offense. But I

1638
01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:50,120
Speaker 2: started on film and I'm watching the game last night

1639
01:17:50,240 --> 01:17:53,120
Speaker 2: or yesterday in the afternoon, and I'm like, Wow, they've

1640
01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:56,639
Speaker 2: gone away entirely from maxim bid two man game, because

1641
01:17:57,000 --> 01:17:58,960
Speaker 2: because dude McBride and og In and Obi just have

1642
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:01,799
Speaker 2: it locked up, they actually went away from it entirely

1643
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:04,479
Speaker 2: down the stretch. I watched every single pick and roll

1644
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:06,320
Speaker 2: from that game, and I don't even think max E

1645
01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:09,200
Speaker 2: Embiid scored on a ball screen in that entire game

1646
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:12,320
Speaker 2: if my film session was correct. Now, I didn't look

1647
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:14,200
Speaker 2: at dribble handoffs, so I'd have to go back and

1648
01:18:14,240 --> 01:18:17,000
Speaker 2: watch it more closely. But they kind of figured out

1649
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:20,840
Speaker 2: that action, the ghost screen action with Kyle Lowry. Jalen

1650
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:24,600
Speaker 2: Brunson was throwing really good hedges, and milesduce McBride was

1651
01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:27,160
Speaker 2: doing a great job pressuring and they were rotating out

1652
01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:29,000
Speaker 2: of it. That big block with precious to chew on

1653
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:33,360
Speaker 2: Joel Embiid, that was clean rotations that erased that Embiid

1654
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 2: in the post. They're able to double team and rotate

1655
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:37,080
Speaker 2: out of it. Now the Sixers are doing some stupid

1656
01:18:37,080 --> 01:18:40,040
Speaker 2: stuff with their spacing as well, but they're they've just

1657
01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:42,800
Speaker 2: kind of figured out that half court offense. And then

1658
01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:44,800
Speaker 2: on the other end of the floor, Brunson's getting better

1659
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:47,880
Speaker 2: and better every game. And the Knicks actually won the

1660
01:18:47,880 --> 01:18:50,080
Speaker 2: half court battle last night ninety three to eighty five

1661
01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:52,880
Speaker 2: in points per one hundred half court plays, And I

1662
01:18:52,880 --> 01:18:55,320
Speaker 2: thought that was the death nail for the death Nael,

1663
01:18:55,400 --> 01:18:59,240
Speaker 2: I should say for this series, in the sense that like,

1664
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:02,160
Speaker 2: if you we're gonna feel comfortable going in as the

1665
01:19:02,200 --> 01:19:05,680
Speaker 2: Sixers and winning Game five in Madison Square Garden, a

1666
01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:08,280
Speaker 2: building that is going to be on fire, it is

1667
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:10,479
Speaker 2: going to be on fire. It is going to be

1668
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:13,000
Speaker 2: a very difficult game to win under any circumstances. And

1669
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:16,960
Speaker 2: these are not normal circumstances, and so I think that

1670
01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:19,840
Speaker 2: the Knicks have kind of figured them out I thought

1671
01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:22,960
Speaker 2: Embiid looked gassed and bad defensively down the stretch as well.

1672
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:25,040
Speaker 2: I think the Knicks are gonna go home and beat

1673
01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:27,960
Speaker 2: them convincingly in Game five. Where are you at, Carson?

1674
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:29,720
Speaker 4: That's interesting.

1675
01:19:30,280 --> 01:19:35,680
Speaker 5: I still think this series could be very competitive down

1676
01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:36,120
Speaker 5: the stretch.

1677
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:36,960
Speaker 4: I picked New York.

1678
01:19:37,160 --> 01:19:39,280
Speaker 5: I think that New York is going to win. But

1679
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:42,800
Speaker 5: I also feel like the best punch that you can

1680
01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:46,960
Speaker 5: see from Philly is a little bit more devastating than

1681
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:48,800
Speaker 5: what New York can deliver the ceiling, Like what we

1682
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:51,680
Speaker 5: see in Game three when embiad is just unconscious as

1683
01:19:51,720 --> 01:19:54,680
Speaker 5: a jump shooter, like that is exactly what you laid out,

1684
01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:58,000
Speaker 5: where the half court offensive skill just exceeds what New

1685
01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:01,200
Speaker 5: York can manufacture. But I do think the Knicks are

1686
01:20:01,240 --> 01:20:02,600
Speaker 5: going to win this series, and I do think that

1687
01:20:02,600 --> 01:20:05,680
Speaker 5: they've been the better team, and there's several components to that.

1688
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:08,880
Speaker 5: First of all, just the consistent contributions that we're seeing

1689
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:12,800
Speaker 5: from these role players are remarkable. The consistent effort, the

1690
01:20:13,360 --> 01:20:16,760
Speaker 5: consistent dominance on the glass that they have asserted, like

1691
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 5: just securing themselves so many extra possessions. That fourth quarter

1692
01:20:20,640 --> 01:20:23,559
Speaker 5: was a slog and there was an opportunity for either

1693
01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:27,519
Speaker 5: team to just seize the moment and at the very

1694
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:29,439
Speaker 5: least knock down some shots. But if you're not gonna

1695
01:20:29,479 --> 01:20:31,800
Speaker 5: do that, you have to end possessions. And the Knicks

1696
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:35,920
Speaker 5: got eleven team offensive rebounds, so including possessions where they

1697
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:39,080
Speaker 5: like drew a foul hustling for the board, that's eleven

1698
01:20:39,200 --> 01:20:41,640
Speaker 5: extra possessions. You cannot allow that if you're Philly and

1699
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:44,880
Speaker 5: there's just been way too much stuff like that. But ultimately,

1700
01:20:45,320 --> 01:20:47,800
Speaker 5: Jalen Brunson is now playing at the level where they're

1701
01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:51,200
Speaker 5: not stealing games anymore. Games one and two they stole

1702
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:55,360
Speaker 5: just on the back of heart in role players over

1703
01:20:55,400 --> 01:20:57,439
Speaker 5: delivering even though we know those guys are awesome, like

1704
01:20:57,479 --> 01:21:00,760
Speaker 5: they had to be superhuman. Now you have Jay Brunson going,

1705
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:02,880
Speaker 5: and that, to me is what is super encouraging, not

1706
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:05,400
Speaker 5: just for this series but for the long term outlook

1707
01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:09,080
Speaker 5: of this Knixt team, because he's made several adjustments to

1708
01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:11,840
Speaker 5: me that have just made him a significantly better offensive player.

1709
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 5: First of all, I love how much he's been looking

1710
01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:17,679
Speaker 5: to facilitate over these last two games, twenty three combined

1711
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:21,280
Speaker 5: assists versus just thirteen combined assists over games one and two,

1712
01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:23,479
Speaker 5: and I think he's doing a much better job of

1713
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:26,240
Speaker 5: hitting Isaiah Hartenstein with those pocket passes and dump offs,

1714
01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:28,320
Speaker 5: and the guy just isn't missing his touch shots. I

1715
01:21:28,360 --> 01:21:30,440
Speaker 5: think he's doing a better job of kicking out to shooters.

1716
01:21:30,439 --> 01:21:34,120
Speaker 5: Like simply put, he took so many tough shots in

1717
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:36,280
Speaker 5: games one and two, and he's still taking tough shots,

1718
01:21:36,479 --> 01:21:38,400
Speaker 5: but he's also getting himself some easier shots, and he's

1719
01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:41,439
Speaker 5: creating easier shots for his teammates. I also think they've

1720
01:21:41,439 --> 01:21:44,960
Speaker 5: done a really good job of getting him downhill more decisively.

1721
01:21:45,439 --> 01:21:47,400
Speaker 5: You mentioned the back pressure that Lucas having to deal with.

1722
01:21:47,439 --> 01:21:49,720
Speaker 5: We are seeing that affect him where he's worried about

1723
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:52,320
Speaker 5: those review contests, and way too often he like has

1724
01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:54,240
Speaker 5: a step right, he's doing his hostage rible he has

1725
01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:56,200
Speaker 5: defender trapped on his back as he loves, and then

1726
01:21:56,240 --> 01:21:57,040
Speaker 5: he steps back.

1727
01:21:57,080 --> 01:21:58,440
Speaker 4: He negates the advantage.

1728
01:21:58,640 --> 01:22:02,120
Speaker 5: Brunson was cleared by the length of Kelly Ubray and

1729
01:22:02,200 --> 01:22:06,240
Speaker 5: Nick Batuman, even Tyrese Maxi early and now he's just

1730
01:22:06,439 --> 01:22:09,400
Speaker 5: instead of playing that sort of slow down methodical, let

1731
01:22:09,479 --> 01:22:12,080
Speaker 5: me carve my way to whatever spot around the free

1732
01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:14,840
Speaker 5: throw line, like he's just going and so he's getting

1733
01:22:14,840 --> 01:22:16,920
Speaker 5: these much higher quality looks close.

1734
01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:17,080
Speaker 4: To the rim.

1735
01:22:17,080 --> 01:22:19,360
Speaker 5: He still can't go right at Embiid, but that's made

1736
01:22:19,360 --> 01:22:22,280
Speaker 5: a big difference. I really liked in Game four how

1737
01:22:22,400 --> 01:22:24,840
Speaker 5: much they were having handoffs flow into pick and roll

1738
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:27,000
Speaker 5: where now you get a running start into that action. Again,

1739
01:22:27,080 --> 01:22:30,880
Speaker 5: just anything to create separation from these really impressive perimeter

1740
01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:33,519
Speaker 5: defenders in Philly. And then you just have like the

1741
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:37,000
Speaker 5: special shot creation footwork, like low pickup from the three

1742
01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:39,080
Speaker 5: point line where he starts his gathering, he hits the

1743
01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:43,320
Speaker 5: and one floater, the running wrong footage shot over Joel

1744
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:46,200
Speaker 5: Embiid as the shot clock expires, like that's Jalen Brunson. Man,

1745
01:22:46,360 --> 01:22:48,080
Speaker 5: that's the guy who he saw down the home stretch

1746
01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:50,559
Speaker 5: of this regular season, who was averaging thirty five a game.

1747
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:53,360
Speaker 5: And when they have that player, then they have the

1748
01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:56,559
Speaker 5: lone superstar who they need for these incredible role players,

1749
01:22:56,560 --> 01:23:01,080
Speaker 5: good spot up shooters, awesome defenders, awesome rebounders to carry

1750
01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:03,960
Speaker 5: you through. And on the flip side, that version of

1751
01:23:04,040 --> 01:23:06,160
Speaker 5: Joelle andb that you got just isn't going to cut it.

1752
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:11,479
Speaker 5: So so underwhelming down the stretch, so convincingly outplayed by Brunson,

1753
01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:13,840
Speaker 5: and they did a nice job on him. New York

1754
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:16,840
Speaker 5: did defensively sending doubles at him once they had to

1755
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:19,839
Speaker 5: match og up with him because of Isaiah Hartenstein's foul trouble,

1756
01:23:20,200 --> 01:23:23,120
Speaker 5: and they rotated well. As you say, like and B

1757
01:23:23,320 --> 01:23:26,240
Speaker 5: didn't create a lot of real advantages off of those doubles.

1758
01:23:26,479 --> 01:23:28,960
Speaker 5: I also think his catch point is consistently far out

1759
01:23:29,200 --> 01:23:30,840
Speaker 5: to the point where he's like not in the teeth

1760
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:32,760
Speaker 5: of the defense. He's not stressing them as much as

1761
01:23:32,760 --> 01:23:35,439
Speaker 5: he could be, and then just wasn't assertive. Like he

1762
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:37,519
Speaker 5: gets a great look at ninety five ninety one, he

1763
01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:40,160
Speaker 5: doesn't take it, and he frankly tries to get a

1764
01:23:40,160 --> 01:23:42,439
Speaker 5: foul call. Instead, he drives and probably is presuming there's

1765
01:23:42,439 --> 01:23:44,559
Speaker 5: gonna be a whistle because there has been every single

1766
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:46,280
Speaker 5: time he's entered the paint in this series.

1767
01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:48,719
Speaker 4: And that's not gonna cut it, man.

1768
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:51,840
Speaker 5: So that to me is the difference if you don't

1769
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:55,360
Speaker 5: have dominant MB and you need great Maxi two, which

1770
01:23:55,360 --> 01:23:57,599
Speaker 5: we've mostly gotten in the series. But you're right about

1771
01:23:57,600 --> 01:24:00,599
Speaker 5: the two man game not being as effective, and Maxi

1772
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:02,880
Speaker 5: last game I thought was his weakest game, Like he

1773
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:05,080
Speaker 5: was just unconscious in games one and two and they

1774
01:24:05,120 --> 01:24:08,240
Speaker 5: still couldn't win. New York is the more complete basketball team,

1775
01:24:08,439 --> 01:24:10,280
Speaker 5: and if Brunson's gonna be the best player on the floor,

1776
01:24:10,600 --> 01:24:13,479
Speaker 5: then Philly may have two and three. But New York

1777
01:24:13,520 --> 01:24:15,400
Speaker 5: has a lot of that next range, like they just

1778
01:24:15,439 --> 01:24:17,320
Speaker 5: have so many positive contributors.

1779
01:24:17,360 --> 01:24:19,400
Speaker 4: So again, Philly can.

1780
01:24:19,320 --> 01:24:21,240
Speaker 5: Still throw a best punch that is tough for New

1781
01:24:21,320 --> 01:24:24,000
Speaker 5: York to counter, but they're not getting there consistently enough.

1782
01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:27,040
Speaker 5: Like three of these four games have been ugly. They

1783
01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:29,719
Speaker 5: have been tough, and that's where New York is gonna thrive,

1784
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:30,840
Speaker 5: and that's where they're gonna win.

1785
01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:34,640
Speaker 1: This series exactly. And late in these games. There's been

1786
01:24:34,640 --> 01:24:36,960
Speaker 1: three games that have really been held in the balance

1787
01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:39,240
Speaker 1: between Philly and New York, and Philly has failed to

1788
01:24:39,760 --> 01:24:42,879
Speaker 1: rise to the occasion. There's two fourth quarters in this series.

1789
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:45,640
Speaker 1: This last game two where Embiid is held scoreless. He

1790
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:48,240
Speaker 1: gets his last bucket with two minutes remaining in the

1791
01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:51,120
Speaker 1: third quarter. You can't have that from your superstar. And

1792
01:24:51,120 --> 01:24:53,719
Speaker 1: I thought his decision making was four down the stretch

1793
01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:57,200
Speaker 1: when he's getting these doubles. One, I want to see

1794
01:24:57,240 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 1: Embiid get the ball closer to the basket on something

1795
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:02,680
Speaker 1: essions man when he's got such a physical mismatch like

1796
01:25:02,760 --> 01:25:05,000
Speaker 1: Og matches up with him well, and he's playing hard,

1797
01:25:05,080 --> 01:25:08,599
Speaker 1: like denying him the ball. I want to see him

1798
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:10,200
Speaker 1: be to get closer to the basket and just start

1799
01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:13,160
Speaker 1: initiating trying to get himself some easy looks when he

1800
01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:16,920
Speaker 1: is not hitting his jumper. Two decision making out of doubles.

1801
01:25:16,920 --> 01:25:19,439
Speaker 1: When they're throwing these doubles at him, sometimes the best

1802
01:25:19,479 --> 01:25:22,800
Speaker 1: decision is just to make the easy pass, swing it

1803
01:25:23,080 --> 01:25:24,840
Speaker 1: and then hope that your teammates are gonna swing it

1804
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:26,920
Speaker 1: and find the open guy when the doubles coming, or

1805
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:30,439
Speaker 1: make the tough pass cross court instead of settling for

1806
01:25:30,479 --> 01:25:34,040
Speaker 1: a jumper. You know, in this last game, New York

1807
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:36,400
Speaker 1: holds Philadelphia, they don't make a basket from the field.

1808
01:25:36,400 --> 01:25:39,120
Speaker 1: They're all of eleven in the final five minutes of

1809
01:25:39,160 --> 01:25:43,120
Speaker 1: this game. And like you said, Carson, when New York

1810
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:45,800
Speaker 1: can make these games ugly, they're one of the best

1811
01:25:45,880 --> 01:25:49,280
Speaker 1: ugly teams in ball. Like they're gonna out hustle you.

1812
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:53,160
Speaker 1: They Josh Hart, not just seventeen boards, Og, not just fourteen.

1813
01:25:53,320 --> 01:25:56,400
Speaker 1: And so when these ugly environments, man, New York just

1814
01:25:56,479 --> 01:26:00,400
Speaker 1: fights like they have the dog aspect and that's where

1815
01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:02,960
Speaker 1: I've really been disappointed with Philadelphia. Man, your offense is

1816
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:05,200
Speaker 1: inevitably gonna go cold at some times, especially when you're

1817
01:26:05,240 --> 01:26:07,800
Speaker 1: going up against such a good New York defense. I've

1818
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:12,160
Speaker 1: been really disappointed by Philadelphia's effort man and on the glass.

1819
01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:14,599
Speaker 1: And that's why I ultimately sighed as well. If Brunson

1820
01:26:14,680 --> 01:26:17,320
Speaker 1: is going to be better than Embiid or close to

1821
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:19,599
Speaker 1: his level, give me the team that's just gonna make

1822
01:26:19,640 --> 01:26:22,120
Speaker 1: the more effort plays, that's gonna make life hard on

1823
01:26:22,200 --> 01:26:25,719
Speaker 1: teams and down the stretch. Man. Philly has crumbled. Philly

1824
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:28,080
Speaker 1: has crumbled in the fourth quarter of these games when

1825
01:26:28,080 --> 01:26:31,599
Speaker 1: New York just has more competitive spirit, more edge, more

1826
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:34,639
Speaker 1: fight in them. More. I hate to say the cliche

1827
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:36,840
Speaker 1: they want it more, but damn it, New York does. Man.

1828
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:39,240
Speaker 1: I don't see I want to see a little fight

1829
01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:44,000
Speaker 1: from Philadelphia. Man, I haven't seen them fighting. Man, I

1830
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:46,000
Speaker 1: want to see that in Philadelphia. New York wants it.

1831
01:26:46,040 --> 01:26:47,680
Speaker 1: New York is going to go and get it. New

1832
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:51,040
Speaker 1: York's gonna take it, man. Philly has failed to really

1833
01:26:51,080 --> 01:26:54,280
Speaker 1: capture any of these late gay moments. Man. They have

1834
01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:56,960
Speaker 1: just fallen apart in the fourth quarter.

1835
01:26:58,600 --> 01:27:00,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't really blame him beat for the offensive

1836
01:27:00,800 --> 01:27:04,360
Speaker 2: side of things, but on the defensive end, he just

1837
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:07,840
Speaker 2: hasn't been nearly good enough, and that's the area where

1838
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:10,280
Speaker 2: I think the criticism of him is fair. He had

1839
01:27:10,320 --> 01:27:13,800
Speaker 2: some bad defensive mistakes down the stretch losing Brunson, but

1840
01:27:13,880 --> 01:27:16,479
Speaker 2: on the offensive end, like I really do think it

1841
01:27:16,720 --> 01:27:21,800
Speaker 2: more has to do with coaching. There are too many

1842
01:27:21,840 --> 01:27:24,360
Speaker 2: possessions where Tobias Harris and Kelly Ubray are in positions

1843
01:27:24,360 --> 01:27:26,880
Speaker 2: where they can't be a threat, and a lot of

1844
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:29,160
Speaker 2: these double teams. Part of the reason why the rotations

1845
01:27:29,160 --> 01:27:32,800
Speaker 2: are so clean is Ubray and Harris keep hanging out

1846
01:27:32,840 --> 01:27:35,800
Speaker 2: right underneath the basket, and they're not precious to chewah

1847
01:27:35,840 --> 01:27:37,920
Speaker 2: Og and Andobi where when they're down there they're getting

1848
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:40,920
Speaker 2: every single offensive rebound. They're just getting in the way.

1849
01:27:41,280 --> 01:27:43,320
Speaker 2: There's a double team of embiide on the left block

1850
01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:47,280
Speaker 2: where they rotated quickly out to Maxi and Kelly Ubray

1851
01:27:47,320 --> 01:27:49,120
Speaker 2: was on the right wing and wide open in a

1852
01:27:49,160 --> 01:27:51,719
Speaker 2: position to catch a three, but instead of being ready,

1853
01:27:51,880 --> 01:27:54,920
Speaker 2: he just kind of ran down underneath the basket where

1854
01:27:54,960 --> 01:27:58,240
Speaker 2: Tobias Harris already was, and all of a sudden Josh

1855
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:01,400
Speaker 2: Hart could guard both of them, advantage was gone. And

1856
01:28:01,479 --> 01:28:03,479
Speaker 2: so there's a lot of stuff. Honestly like to I

1857
01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:06,719
Speaker 2: think Thibodeau has coached circles around Nick Nurse in this series.

1858
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:11,559
Speaker 2: The offensive rebounds. The Knicks had eleven second chance points

1859
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:14,479
Speaker 2: out of their twenty in the fourth quarter yesterday. A

1860
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:16,639
Speaker 2: big part of that was for some reason, he still

1861
01:28:16,640 --> 01:28:18,920
Speaker 2: has Kyle Lowry out on the floor, and it's like,

1862
01:28:18,960 --> 01:28:22,760
Speaker 2: you already have Tyrese Maxey out there, and more importantly,

1863
01:28:22,920 --> 01:28:27,200
Speaker 2: you've got Kelly Ubra on the ball and embids showing high.

1864
01:28:27,439 --> 01:28:31,080
Speaker 2: So you're putting two of your biggest athletes out on

1865
01:28:31,120 --> 01:28:35,920
Speaker 2: the perimeter and you're asking Tobias Harris and Tyrese Maxey

1866
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:38,600
Speaker 2: and Kyle Lowry to clean up the defensive glass. And

1867
01:28:39,080 --> 01:28:41,760
Speaker 2: many of these situations, Kyle Lowry is getting matched up

1868
01:28:41,760 --> 01:28:44,680
Speaker 2: with og and Nanobi im precious Achua, and he's just

1869
01:28:44,760 --> 01:28:47,200
Speaker 2: completely He's trying to box out. I'm watching him on film.

1870
01:28:47,240 --> 01:28:50,960
Speaker 2: He's turning, identifying the player sprinting into him, trying to

1871
01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:54,240
Speaker 2: box him out. He's just physically overmatched. And I would

1872
01:28:54,280 --> 01:28:57,440
Speaker 2: get it if Lowry was giving you something more substantial offensively,

1873
01:28:57,479 --> 01:28:59,639
Speaker 2: and look He's playmaking is a value. He can grift

1874
01:28:59,640 --> 01:29:01,280
Speaker 2: his way to line a few times a game like

1875
01:29:01,320 --> 01:29:05,040
Speaker 2: he's got value there, but not enough to justify it.

1876
01:29:05,080 --> 01:29:07,080
Speaker 2: Is Nick Batum a perfect player to throw out in

1877
01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:09,320
Speaker 2: a situation like that, No, but at least you have

1878
01:29:09,360 --> 01:29:13,120
Speaker 2: a better chance to contend on the glass while also

1879
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:16,200
Speaker 2: having some more shooting on the floor. And then I

1880
01:29:16,240 --> 01:29:19,120
Speaker 2: think you in that situation put Batoum on the ball

1881
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:22,559
Speaker 2: and then have oubres athleticism to kind of help you

1882
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:26,040
Speaker 2: clean up on the glass. But I think Thibodeau's out

1883
01:29:26,080 --> 01:29:29,120
Speaker 2: coach Nick Nurse. I think Brunson's outplayed Joel Embiid, and

1884
01:29:29,160 --> 01:29:32,400
Speaker 2: that has mitigated any advantage that the Sixers had in

1885
01:29:32,479 --> 01:29:34,560
Speaker 2: terms of personnel in this series. So I think the

1886
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:36,280
Speaker 2: Knicks are going to close them out in Game five.

1887
01:29:36,320 --> 01:29:38,280
Speaker 2: But yeah, there's no doubt the Sixers had that punch,

1888
01:29:38,680 --> 01:29:40,600
Speaker 2: and if they throw it, they've got a chance. But

1889
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:41,920
Speaker 2: it kind of goes back to what we were talking

1890
01:29:41,920 --> 01:29:43,920
Speaker 2: about with Nuggets Lakers. Do you expect the Sixers to

1891
01:29:43,960 --> 01:29:44,719
Speaker 2: do that three times?

1892
01:29:44,760 --> 01:29:45,760
Speaker 6: I don't know.

1893
01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:48,040
Speaker 2: All right, So before we get out here today, Carson,

1894
01:29:48,040 --> 01:29:49,120
Speaker 2: you want to tell us what you guys are working

1895
01:29:49,120 --> 01:29:50,120
Speaker 2: on over at nerd sash.

1896
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:54,200
Speaker 5: Absolutely so we are crying out a bunch of content

1897
01:29:54,240 --> 01:29:58,360
Speaker 5: throughout these playoffs. We are going live post game. We've

1898
01:29:58,360 --> 01:29:59,599
Speaker 5: been doing it almost every.

1899
01:29:59,439 --> 01:29:59,960
Speaker 4: Night so far.

1900
01:30:00,200 --> 01:30:03,040
Speaker 5: So if you just have that immediate fix, and if

1901
01:30:03,080 --> 01:30:05,479
Speaker 5: Jason isn't live, if Jason's live, you know, take your pick.

1902
01:30:05,520 --> 01:30:09,240
Speaker 4: I think we all great choices, but we are there.

1903
01:30:09,760 --> 01:30:13,479
Speaker 5: You can listen to our shows across audio platforms and

1904
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:16,120
Speaker 5: also on our YouTube page. On top of those full shows,

1905
01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:20,599
Speaker 5: we are doing some more in depth video breakdowns, video essays,

1906
01:30:20,640 --> 01:30:23,599
Speaker 5: deep dives into specific subjects, interesting things that we're seeing

1907
01:30:23,640 --> 01:30:27,120
Speaker 5: pop up throughout these playoffs, dominant players, etc. So you

1908
01:30:27,120 --> 01:30:28,679
Speaker 5: can find all that and then also if you want

1909
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:32,240
Speaker 5: more of our content, we are across social at nerd

1910
01:30:32,280 --> 01:30:34,880
Speaker 5: sessh on TikTok and Instagram and at nerd Underscore sessh

1911
01:30:34,960 --> 01:30:37,120
Speaker 5: on Twitter, and we do a lot of fun trivia

1912
01:30:37,160 --> 01:30:39,960
Speaker 5: stuff there on top of clips from the show and whatnot.

1913
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:43,479
Speaker 2: They're doing amazing work with the film sessions and the

1914
01:30:43,560 --> 01:30:46,519
Speaker 2: video essays and stuff. Love the nerd sech guys. Get

1915
01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:49,400
Speaker 2: over there, subscribe to their channel. We will be having

1916
01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:52,479
Speaker 2: them on probably about once a week throughout the rest

1917
01:30:52,479 --> 01:30:55,519
Speaker 2: of the playoff run. I appreciate you guys taking the

1918
01:30:55,560 --> 01:30:58,280
Speaker 2: time to come on the show today. I appreciate all

1919
01:30:58,280 --> 01:31:00,600
Speaker 2: you guys who are listening for supporting the show. We

1920
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Speaker 2: are going to be back tonight after the final buzzer

1921
01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:05,719
Speaker 2: of Lakers Nuggets, which Carson has assured me the Lakers

1922
01:31:05,760 --> 01:31:07,400
Speaker 2: have no chance of winning, So I will.

1923
01:31:07,200 --> 01:31:07,920
Speaker 3: See you guys.

1924
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:10,759
Speaker 2: I will see you guys tonight after the final buzzer.

1925
01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:12,200
Speaker 2: As always, we appreciate you guys.

1926
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Speaker 6: See you later tonight.

1927
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Speaker 1: The volume