1 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. You've got one goal. 2 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: That's to leave the cold northern winters, to head south 3 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: with your family, start a new life, maybe in a 4 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: place called Celebration, Florida. Sounds kind of joyful, doesn't it. 5 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: Place where your family can thrive and live. And you're 6 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: just down the road from Disney World, of all places. 7 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: But the cases I want to talk to you about 8 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: today involved one of the most heinous crimes in the 9 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: history of Florida. I'm talking about the Toad family, Masaker. 10 00:00:55,480 --> 00:01:03,279 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Back. Our 11 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: friend Jackie Howard's joining me today. She's the executive producer 12 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jackie. This case across 13 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: multiple state lines. It did Joe. In fact, it started 14 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: in Connecticut. Anthony Tony Tote owned Family Physical Therapy, but 15 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: he also started another practice in Florida, Celebration, Florida. As 16 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: you mentioned, Joe, he was traveling back and forth to 17 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: run his business, but in Connecticut, the Feds started showing 18 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: up at the office investigating Tote for fraud. He continues 19 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: his practice in Florida. In September, totals licensed to practice 20 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: in Connecticut was not renewed. In December, the Tote family 21 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: was being evicted from their Florida celebration home. In the 22 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: middle of all of this, we find out that the 23 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: Tote family has not been heard from since Thanksgiving. Tony 24 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: Toads extended family posted an otis on social media that 25 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: they had not been heard from. So in December, local 26 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: police show up to do a wellness check. No one answered. Later, 27 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: the Feds show up to execute at arrest warrant on 28 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: fraud charges. And as the federal agents entered the home, 29 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: they see Anthony Tote coming down the stairs, almost stumbling falling, 30 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: and he says he thinks his family is upstairs asleep. 31 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: But Joe, when the agents go upstairs, that is not 32 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: what they found. No, it wasn't what they found. These 33 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 1: are not FBI agents. These agents that are showing up 34 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: or uh from the Health Service essentially, and they have 35 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: they have arrest authority, and uh, you know, they're they're 36 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: looking at this guy for health fraud. These investigators or 37 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: agents from the FEDS, they're they're not used to this 38 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: sort of thing. They're there with the locals and they're 39 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: there to arrest this fellow for fraud. And then all 40 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 1: of a sudden, like a ten pound sledge hammer, they 41 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: get not with this overwhelming smell of decomposition, because that 42 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 1: that's what's going on. As they move up this staircase, 43 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: which Toad himself had been descending you had mentioned in 44 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: this kind of stupor, saying his family was asleep. As 45 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: you get higher and higher and higher on that staircase, 46 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: the smell becomes more profound. And when they finally did 47 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: make entrance, they stepped up on that landing and walked 48 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: into that bedroom, and what they saw was just unbelievable, 49 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: the carnage because within that bedroom to its entire family 50 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: lay there deceased. They certainly weren't asleep, um, and in 51 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: an advanced state of decomposition there. You know, in every 52 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: news article has been written, and even in court, you 53 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: know they're referring to this as future faction. Uh. This 54 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: is these bodies were decomposing up there on that second 55 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: floor of that home. Okay, tell him to come back 56 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: and let you explain to me exactly what you mean 57 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: by that. But I've got a legal question. Agents went 58 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: in on an arrest warrant, but when they ran into 59 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: the bodies. That changed everything about this investigation and how 60 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: the forensics were collected. Explained to me what the discovery 61 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: of dead bodies did to the investigation. Yeah, and that's 62 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: very important here. Just just imagine in your mind a 63 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:30,799 Speaker 1: giant light switch gets flipped, because now you've you've gone 64 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: from these people out there serving a federal arrest warrant 65 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: for insurance fraud too. Now you've discovered all of these 66 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: deceased people and immediately the locals because you know, homicide 67 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: is not the purview of the Feds. That's those are 68 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: state charges. And so now the sheriff has a vested 69 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: interest in this case beyond just assisting with with an 70 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: arrest warrant. At this point time, now this has become 71 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: a death investigation. And once the scene is actually rendered safe, 72 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: that means that the police have gone through the house 73 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: room by room, checking to make sure that there's no 74 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: one else in the house that might be in danger. 75 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: The police actually withdrawal from the house, they secure it. 76 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: And a lot of people don't really understand that. They 77 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: think that simply because you have a dead body in 78 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: the house, that constitutional issues and all that stuff go 79 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: out the window. No, that doesn't happen. You have to 80 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: go secure a search warrant relative to a death investigation, 81 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: and that means that you can go through the house 82 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: and search completely and process the scene forensically and all 83 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: these sorts of things without that search warrant. And there 84 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: have been cases over the years that have been literally 85 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: thrown out in homicide cases because the police did not 86 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: did not get a search warrant. All of that stuff 87 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: is thrown out. It's through to the poison trees what 88 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 1: it essentially turns out to The sheriff was actually talking 89 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: about this later on. So you have to back out, 90 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: secure the scene, wait for a search warrant, and then 91 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: you come back and begin processing the scene. In that way, 92 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 1: everything you collect in this case going forward can be 93 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: brought into evidence and you can begin to build a case. 94 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:26,799 Speaker 1: The bodies of Tote's wife, Megan, son alect son Tyler eleven, 95 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 1: and daughter Zoe, four years old were found Also found 96 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: dead was the family dog, Breezy. So you mentioned putrification, Joe, 97 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: what is that? I think many people have probably heard 98 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:45,919 Speaker 1: the term putrification or maybe uh putrid, which is the 99 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: root of this, and it means to decay essentially and 100 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: It's a very broad ranging term, and we use it 101 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: in forensics. But I love from my my audience with 102 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: body backs to understand kind of some of the subtleties 103 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: involved here. When we began to talk about decomposition and 104 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: these sorts of things from a medical legal standpoint, we 105 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,559 Speaker 1: have something if you think about this from what's called 106 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: a micro perspective and then a macro perspective, you think 107 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: from a micro perspective, and how how appropriate here you 108 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: have something that we begin to talk about. It's called 109 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: autolytic change or autolesis, and that means at a very 110 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: basic cellular level, once an individual dies, those proteins and 111 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: enzymes within the cells begin to kind of self digest 112 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: because there's no longer any kind of cellular respiration going on. 113 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: Uh So they're trying to survive essentially, and the body 114 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: begins to digest itself. That's the term autolesis or autolytic change, 115 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: auto meaning cell And then you kind of broaden that 116 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,119 Speaker 1: out and you begin to think about future faction. Well, 117 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: not only do you have the stuff going on at 118 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: at a microscopic level, but then more broadly, you have 119 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: all of these external factors that began to play into 120 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: this process of decomposition or future faction. They talked about how, uh, 121 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: one of the boys is laying on the floor and 122 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: this is just almost too horrible to even contemplate. And 123 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: he's got this evidence of desiccation of his feet, and 124 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: desiccation you've heard of desiccated items. That means that they're 125 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: without moisture. His feet had begun to dry out and mummify. 126 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: And so you've got these external environmental factors in this environment. 127 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: Remember the houses without electricity. Uh, it's hot, you're talking 128 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: about Florida. Even though it's January, it's hot here in 129 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: the upper story. Anybody has ever been into your attic 130 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 1: for instance, you know that it gets very, very hot. 131 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: And that's what would have been going on in here. 132 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 1: It would have been like living in an oven for 133 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: a protracted period of time with bodies that have been 134 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 1: breaking down for not just days, but but weeks. So 135 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: you mean modification. And we learned in court that these 136 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: bodies were in a state of being mummified. They believe 137 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: the wife and children were killed in December. They were 138 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: not found until well after the new year. How long 139 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: does it take for a body to become mummified. And 140 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,959 Speaker 1: we know that Anthony told stayed in the home during 141 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: this time, So how did this man stay in this 142 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: home with the process going on? That's a great question. 143 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: And you know, we hear, you know, over the course 144 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: of any year in a news cycle, you'll hear about 145 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: people that have been living within a home of h 146 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: that also contains a decomposing body. And most of the 147 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: time these are gonna be individuals that there are any 148 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: number of these cases out there that occur where you 149 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: have somebody that is suffering from dementia, say for instance, 150 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: and they have a loved one that dies in the 151 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: home with them, maybe the caretaker, and they'll be found, 152 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: you know, weeks later, maybe in living in the house, 153 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: but that somebody that's in in a state of mind 154 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: where they don't really have the ability to care for themselves. Now, 155 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 1: you do have these cases like this where an individual 156 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: has perpetrated some kind of horrible crime and they dwell. 157 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: And you know, I have to ask myself many times 158 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,079 Speaker 1: as an investigator, how could you do this? Because I've 159 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: been around I can't tell you hundreds and hundreds and 160 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: hundreds of decomposed bodies and it's it's not something that 161 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: you get used to necessarily kind of work around it, 162 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,839 Speaker 1: and you do what you have to do as a job. 163 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: But when you examine this from the perspective that he 164 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: is a husband and that he is a daddy to 165 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: these three precious children, I don't know that I necessarily 166 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: have an answer to that question. How could you? I think? 167 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: Is what I'm left with. What's what's the stop here? 168 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: You know what? What's putting the brakes on him from 169 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: exiting the house earlier? Maybe flee is it? Fear? Is 170 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: he addled in his mind where you can't make these decisions? 171 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: He's he puts this forth later on. I think in 172 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: the narrative that he he was not in control of 173 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: his faculties, if you will, that he was deranged in 174 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: some way. Of course, that's that's certainly enough the case. 175 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: Getting past the horror of the decomposition of your family, 176 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: can't even begin to fathom that the life cycle of flies, 177 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 1: the flies. You know, you're living in this environment where 178 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: these bodies of your wife and your children, flies lighting 179 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: on their bodies and then in turn lighting on your 180 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: body as you're trying to move through this house. The horror, 181 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: the level of horror here is just unimaginable. We know, Joe, 182 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: that the family was killed. Police characterized it as unspecified violence. 183 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,719 Speaker 1: They released the fact that the family was given overdoses 184 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: have been a drill and then stabbed. All were stabbed 185 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: except the four year old. Megan was stabbed twice in 186 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: the stomach. The boys sustained a single stab wound to 187 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: the abdomen. Again, the four year old was not stabbed. 188 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: What is an overdose of been a drill, Joe? And 189 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: what does it do to allow ultimately for you to 190 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: be stabbed without you fighting? That's that's an excellent question. 191 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: Uh been a drill For those that are not familiar 192 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: with it, I think a goodly portion of us are. 193 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:50,559 Speaker 1: UH is an antihistamine, and it's it's used in order 194 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: to UH thwart um. Kind of these these automatic reactions 195 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: that we have to two things that come into our 196 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: system that are fact us. You know, you begin to 197 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: think about pollen and all these things that that that 198 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: impact us during the spring, you know where we were 199 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 1: sneezing constantly, running eyes. Well, one of the presentations that 200 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: you have with an antihistamine is that makes individuals drowsy. 201 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: You've got dife and hydromine. As a matter of fact, 202 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: dife and hydramine is included in a number of drugs 203 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: that are out there that people will use in order 204 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: to facilitate sleep, in order just to get them started sleeping. 205 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: And it's it's as a drug, it's kind of interesting 206 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:38,079 Speaker 1: because it's very very quickly absorbed into the system. Approximately 207 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: within an hour of ingesting this drug. Um, you begin 208 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: to get drowsy and you'll drift off. Many times. It's 209 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: you know, they say don't drive, you know when you're 210 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 1: taking this stuff, because you'll run off the road. A 211 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: number of people have have dozed off at the wheel 212 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: and have wound up dying as a result of having 213 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: been a drill on board. And that's just with one 214 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: tablet with just let me give you an example, uh Jackie. 215 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 1: When they estimate for uh Tyler, who is the eleven 216 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 1: year old in this case, that Tyler had, they believe, 217 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: and again decomposition plays a factor here. They believe that 218 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: Tyler may very well have had up to eighteen the 219 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: equivalent of eighteen tablets of diaph and hydromine in his system. 220 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: And each one of these tablets is twenty five milligrams, 221 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: so he would have had a totality of like four 222 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty milligrams of diafe and hydromine on board. 223 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: Now they're saying that that might not necessarily kill you, 224 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: but it could push you toward a commoto state. Uh, 225 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: you could get so deep into sleep that is compromising 226 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: your ability to respire, that is, to take up oxygen 227 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: and these sorts of things. Hang on toe, you're telling 228 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: me that this child had a certain amount of vena 229 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: drill in his body. Let's break this down a little 230 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: bit further for people, because it's hard. It's even hard 231 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: for me to understand how many doses basically would that 232 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: breakdown to. So you figure, you know, uh, normal dosage 233 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: for an adult is going to be right about twenty 234 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: five milligrams or just one. These tablets are pink, they're 235 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: pink in color. Uh, just one of these little tablets. 236 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: And for folks that are not familiar with what they 237 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: look like, if anybody has ever had a piece of 238 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: pez candy before that comes out of a little cartoon 239 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: character's heads, Um, that's what benadryl kind of looks like. 240 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: It's that shape. So if you took one of those 241 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: twenty five milligram tablets and literally snapped it in half. Uh, 242 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: you know, you're you're looking at roughly, you know, a 243 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: dosage of of about twelve point five milligrams, and that 244 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: would have been sufficient for a child of Tyler's age 245 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: and his weight. He's not a very big kid. But 246 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: then you learn how much he actually had on board. 247 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: He had on board the equivalent of eighteen full size tablets. 248 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: That's four hundred and sixty milligrams of this stuff in 249 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: his system that had been administered to him. So why 250 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: why would an individual do that? It's it's it's easy, 251 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: it's accessible, it's over the counter, you don't need a 252 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: prescription for it. So it's gonna drive down your system, 253 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: and it's going to inhibit your ability, uh to fight 254 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: back if someone is attacking you, for instance, if they're 255 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: stabbing you or beating you, or maybe even suffocating you. 256 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: And I think that that was the goal of total 257 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: all along here with his entire family, was to administer 258 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: this medication to them in order to get them into 259 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: a submissive position. We know how little it would have 260 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: taken for the children. What about the wife, Megan, Yeah, 261 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: that's that's the real problem. And it's actually a problem 262 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: with all of these poor family members that that were 263 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: administered these drugs. We've got the specter of decomposition that's 264 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: going on here. So as a body begins to break 265 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: down and understand this. One of the comments that was 266 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 1: made early on about this was that they could not 267 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: even pull blood from these bodies. Remember how we talked 268 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: about future faction. You've got this issue that's called desiccation, 269 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: which means drying out, and that means that the blood 270 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: sample that you would normally get, Uh, it's just it's 271 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: not going to be there. I mean we're talking you know. 272 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: I think probably from what I've read and heard and 273 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: kind of examined in this case, we're looking at maybe 274 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: a month to a month and a half down range 275 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: from death. Uh. These bodies have been greatly compromised. So 276 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: what do we do well in the morgue? Uh, you 277 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: have some soft tissue that is left and in this 278 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: particular case and Megan specifically the mom. Uh, the only 279 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: thing they could really sample for her to try to 280 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: determine how much she had on board this drug was 281 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: to get brain tissue. And when they got her brain 282 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: tissue and examined it and literally you have to take 283 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 1: UH soft tissue UH and place it into a centrifuge, 284 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: which spins it around and almost liquefies it. It does 285 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 1: actually liquefied, and once it gets into that liquefied state, 286 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: you draw it up and then you can test it 287 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: for what are chemicals are on board. And in Megan's case, UM, 288 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: she came back with a five point zero two milligram 289 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: UH level of diphen hydramine in her system. And what 290 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: that would mean is that you have to do the 291 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: math here because that is indicative of her having a 292 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 1: much larger dose in life. Because she's decomposing, so all 293 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: you have left is five point zero two milligrams left 294 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 1: in her brain. So it's made it past deliver that 295 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: couldn't get anything out of her liver. The only thing 296 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 1: that could find was in her brain. So that tells 297 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: me as an investigator that more than likely she had 298 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 1: been probably subjected to this earlier on. She had been 299 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: down for a longer time, at least long enough for 300 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: her body to have processed it. Two. It just made 301 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,479 Speaker 1: it to the brain barrier where it made through and 302 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 1: you could actually find UH. The only sample in her 303 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: body would be from her brain tissue. That leads to 304 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: another very interesting question, Joe, Given the amount that a 305 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: person would have to take to get into this state, 306 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: how would you administer that. We know that Anthony Tote 307 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: wrote a letter to his father saying that Megan had 308 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: baked the medication into a pie and fed it to 309 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: his family and then drank an entire bottle, uh family 310 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: sized bottle of been a drill herself and then stabbed 311 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: herself in the stomach. If you don't believe that, which 312 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: investigators didn't, how would you get or trick or convince 313 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: someone to take that much been a drill. It's not 314 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: convincing or tricking. He forced her, and I'll tell you why. 315 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: I believe that. When investigators got out there. One of 316 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: the things that they discovered in that search. Remember we 317 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: were talking about how they they had to go back 318 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: and get search warrant. One of the things that they 319 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: found um around the base of the headboard was a 320 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: homemade restraint. This is a nylon binding that was there 321 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: that was tied into knots. I think he bound her 322 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: up and he forced her to ingest this medication. Now 323 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: what was the status of this? You know, they talked 324 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: about this great flavored medication, UM that would have contained 325 00:20:54,920 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: diving hydromen. There were tablets everywhere. Um did he liquefied somehow? Uh? 326 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: Did he? How did he administer it to her? Uh? 327 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: I think that he restrained her, He forced her to 328 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 1: take this medication, and then after she was asleep, he 329 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: took a knife and essentially buried it into her abdomen twice. Now, 330 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: it's really hard to tell. The earliest reports relative to 331 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 1: Megan's body, there was some indication that they felt as 332 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: though that this was um. That the estab ones that 333 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: she was sustained were anti mortem, which of course means 334 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: before death. So she could have been in this cuminto state. 335 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: And when she is completely and totally uh submissive, I guess, uh, 336 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: you take a knife and you bury it into her 337 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:53,120 Speaker 1: stomach in order to guarantee that she was in fact dead. 338 00:21:53,400 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: What what absolutely baffles the mind here is that Anthony 339 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: Tot was not ignorant of human physiology and anatomy. This 340 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 1: guy is a physical therapist. He's a board certified physical therapist. 341 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: He understands the human body. He even understands pharmacology. Um, 342 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: this is a very blunted way to kill somebody. It 343 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 1: doesn't show a lot of higher level thinking, which is 344 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: kind of amazing to me, because he's got a background. 345 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: He has to have background in pharmacology, because he understands 346 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: about people that are in pain, and he works with doctors. 347 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 1: He knows that they prescribe certain medications to help them. 348 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: He knows how the physiology of the body, how the 349 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: body actually works, and and this is a very drawn 350 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: out way to do this. There was actually a weapon 351 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: that was found at the scene, a handgun. It seems 352 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: to me it would have been certainly less tortuous to 353 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 1: have ended their life in that manner, but he chose 354 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: to dose them with these high levels of dife and 355 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 1: hydromen and then go back after the fact and take 356 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 1: a sharp instrument. They recovered two knives at the scene, 357 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 1: a sharp instrument and bury it in his wife's abdomen twice. 358 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 1: It just it It baffles me, you know, the thinking 359 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: that went into this. Joe. We talked about Tyler and 360 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: the dosage that he was given, but Alex was not given. 361 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: You would think that him being older and larger, that 362 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: he would have been given a larger dosage, but that's 363 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 1: not the case. No, it's not um. Tyler had been 364 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 1: given UH the equivalent of eighteen of these milligram tablets, 365 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: but Alec was actually given UH given thirteen thirteen in 366 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: these tablets. And let me give you an idea how 367 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: this breaks down. When they did the remember we were 368 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: talking about how you take take tissue soft tissue, they 369 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: still had soft tissue remaining for a liver examination as 370 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 1: well as a brain examination on both the boys. And 371 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,199 Speaker 1: the numbers that they came up with for for Alec 372 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: were that he had roughly UH seven point nine milligrams 373 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: diaphen hydromin um in his system at the time of 374 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 1: his death, and the way that they broke that down 375 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: was that he had six point six milligrams in his 376 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: liver and then he had about one point three in 377 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: his brain. So what that means is that the UH 378 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: deliver still contained the majority of the diaphin hydramine and 379 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: that it still had not completely made its way through 380 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,959 Speaker 1: his system at the time in which he was killed. 381 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: It took less to kill him, though, but he was 382 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: still stabbed. He was stabbed a single time in his abdomen. 383 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 1: I think the the problem that the authorities have we're 384 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: faced with in this particular case is that because of 385 00:24:54,880 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 1: the level of decomposition, when this case was being examined, 386 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: all they could really come up with was non specific 387 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,360 Speaker 1: homicidal violence. So they didn't really understand it's a very 388 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: fine line. They didn't really understand how the mechanism may 389 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: have gone on. But what they did know is that 390 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: these children and the wife all died at the hand 391 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: of another, that this was not some type of accidental death, 392 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: that it was not some kind of bizarre coincidence that 393 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 1: they all died at the hand of their father and husband. 394 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: Four year old Zoe did not have traumas, she did 395 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:42,919 Speaker 1: not have a stab wound. Was she killed by justin overdose? 396 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: No no, and her her her levels were difficult to determine. 397 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 1: What they do opine if you will, UH was that 398 00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: her death may have resulted um um from suffocation, and 399 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: that has been put forth for each one of these individuals. 400 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 1: Um for Megan, Tyler and Alexander as well, that that 401 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: when Tod was working his way through the murders of 402 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: his entire family, he was trying multiple things um and 403 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 1: again compromised with decomposition. There's you you know, the best 404 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: you can do is is kind of speculate um. There 405 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: is an indication, though, at least from what the medical 406 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 1: examiner came up with, that Zoe had in fact been suffocated. Uh. 407 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: Did he have her in a sleeping state and then 408 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: you know, place his hand over her uh nose and mouth? 409 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: Did he uh pressed down on her to inhibit her 410 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: ability to breathe? That's something called burking. Did that happen? 411 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: Did he take a pillow and put it over her 412 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 1: face and suffocat her um? No? One really knows that. 413 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 1: They don't really go into great detail talking about things 414 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: like ligature strangulation or manual strangulation, nothing like that. But 415 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: the term that seems to rise to the top throughout 416 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: this entire horrific narrative is suffocation. And that implies to 417 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 1: me that there their airway externally And when I say that, 418 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: I'm talking about their nose and their mouth was compromised 419 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: in some way. We know that you usually get either 420 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: some bruising or BATITII in the eyes that indicate the suffocation. 421 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: If the bodies were mummified, how would you know, well 422 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 1: that that can be a problem with decomposition, and particularly 423 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: when you have bodies that have been down for this 424 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: period of time, uh, that will have been compromised um 425 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 1: to such a great degree. You know, when you take 426 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: a look even at at Megan's clothing and you can 427 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: see some the images from the crime scene, you'll see 428 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: these large kind of pooled areas. And I'm just bear 429 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: with me here. When you see these kind of large 430 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 1: pooled areas on the bed that kind of look like blood, 431 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 1: that's not what you're seeing. You're actually seeing what's referred 432 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: to decompositional fluid, and that's the body beginning to break down. 433 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: When you see images of Megan's clothing, they're stained with 434 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: this kind of dark, uh, dark fluid that's decompositional fluid 435 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: that's literally seeping through the clothing. So the tissue has 436 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: become compromised. And that's all tissue throughout the body. So 437 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: if if you're looking for specific pen prick hemorrhages which 438 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: is another term that we use for um for patikii 439 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: in the eyes are along the gum line, which is 440 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: a place we look for them. Sometimes they can be 441 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: very very difficult to see. You you really have to 442 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: take your time, and even in taking your time with 443 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: severely decomposed bodies, sometimes it's it's just not gonna be visible. 444 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: This guy's entire family is completely wiped out. I mean, 445 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: there's nobody left and I can't still it baffles to 446 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: mind to think, why in the world, Why in the 447 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,959 Speaker 1: world would you eradicate your entire family, Joe, There's one 448 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: last victim in this massacre that we have not talked 449 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: about yet, and that is the family dog. You're not 450 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: going to give the family dog Ben a drill or 451 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: are you? Yeah? I suppose you could. Uh. And you know, 452 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: people do, and if you go online you can actually 453 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: find recommended dosages for for dogs. And again it's variable 454 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: depended upon the weight of an animal, that sort of thing. 455 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: I think that people do do this um And one 456 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: interesting little aside in in this in this case is 457 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: that he had made early on tote, that is, he 458 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: had made a comment, you know, relative to the dog, 459 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: that he wanted the dog to be on the other 460 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: side with the family, you know, that they were all 461 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: going to go over there. Of course, with told himself 462 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: he he eradicated his entire family, and of course he 463 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: stayed behind. Given that most dogs are a little bit 464 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: aggressive when they're threatened. We know through the autopsy on 465 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: the dog, that the dog was suffocated. So Joe, number one, 466 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: how do you get suffocated dog? And number two, who 467 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: does the autopsy on the dog? Is that done by 468 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: a veterinarian or is that done by a by a 469 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: medical examiner. Yeah, you know, we're they're saying that the 470 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: dog was suffocated. I have to I have to think 471 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: here that, uh, this is kind of more than likely 472 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: what we referred to as a presumptive diagnosis that you know, 473 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: you're really left with nothing else if if you're not 474 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: seeing any kind of trauma on the exterior of the dog, uh, 475 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: you you kind of have to whittle it down and decide, well, 476 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,479 Speaker 1: this is the most likely uh cause of death for 477 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: for the animal and um, you know, in cases I've 478 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: been involved with where there was an animal in um 479 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: an animal death that was also involved, uh, you know, 480 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: are connected to the deaths of of of humans, we 481 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: would generally bring in a veterinarian because their their skills 482 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: specifically to look for various trauma on animals and this 483 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: sort of thing. And there there's actually an entire, uh 484 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: an entire practice out there that people might not be 485 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: aware of, and that's a forensic veterinarian medicine, and it's 486 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: it's quite quite wide ranging. I mean they cover everything 487 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: from you know, the doping of animals to examining trauma 488 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: on animals, poisoning of animals, that sort of thing. So 489 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: it's an and completely standalone on field in and of itself, 490 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: but we would generally bring in a veterinarian to make 491 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 1: that kind of diagnosis. What's really fascinating about this case, um, 492 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: when you take a deep dive in it and you 493 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: begin to kind of examine, uh, what happened. There's a 494 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: couple of schools of thought. Um. You know, when you 495 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: look at bodies and how they're treated after death. We 496 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: call this memorializing the dead from a perspective of death investigation. 497 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: And what that means is how did a perpetrator actually 498 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: treat the remains of an individual? Um? You know, he 499 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: had Toad had actually drug a mattress into the master 500 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: bedroom and had laid both boys on the bed together 501 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: at the at literally on the floor. Uh, on this 502 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: on this single mattress had laid both of them down 503 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: there and had wrapped them up, and his wife's body 504 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: was laying in the bed and the dogs body was 505 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: was there on the floor. And the little girl was 506 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: was wrapped up and she was laying at the foot 507 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: of the bed, and and it makes me think, you know, 508 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: was he You know? You you you scratch your head 509 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: over and you wonder, well, how in the world can 510 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: you do this? How in the world can you endwell 511 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: this environment with the decomposing bodies of your loved ones, 512 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: sleeping day in and day out in this environment? You know? 513 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: Or you is he? Is he honoring the dead by 514 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: the way he treated him? I'd have to say no. Uh, 515 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: he horribly abused these individuals. I'm actually surprised that he 516 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: wasn't charged with some level of abuse of of corpse 517 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: as well, because they were down for so very long 518 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: in that house. It's it's uh, not only did he 519 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: murder them, but he essentially disrespected the remains after death 520 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: as well. When you're doing a forensic examination on an animal, Joe, 521 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: you're obviously not looking at the same thing that you 522 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: would look for in humans because of the fur, You're 523 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: not gonna see strangulation marks. I would imagine. No, actually, 524 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: it's not too dissimilar of um. And I'll give you 525 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 1: an example. For instance, if we have an individual, a 526 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: human that has died, for instance, as some kind of 527 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 1: head trauma. For instance, UM, we actually shave the head. 528 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 1: We shave the area, particularly around where we suspect the 529 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: trauma is to try to get an idea as to 530 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: how extensive it is. It's no different with with an 531 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 1: animal like this, you would shave the area. If you 532 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 1: have like a puncture wound to a dog's body or 533 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: maybe a horse or something like this, You're gonna shave 534 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 1: that area around there so you can document it, you 535 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 1: can actually examine it, and then you can photographic because 536 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: you know, once once the body is out the door. 537 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 1: Even this applies to an animal like this, Um, there's 538 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,839 Speaker 1: no recapturing that moment in time because when this goes 539 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: to trial, you have to be able to demonstrate this 540 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 1: in court and show what precisely happened. You know, there's 541 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 1: the old adage um in in investigations that if it's 542 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: not written down, if it's not documented, it didn't happen. 543 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,399 Speaker 1: So you have to go through all of these painstaking 544 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: measures to document everything along the line. And to this 545 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 1: idea of of strangulation or suffocation with an animal like this, Uh, 546 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: the tissues are going to be similarly reactive just like 547 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: humans will. You would actually see the presentation of PATIKII, 548 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,320 Speaker 1: for instance, in the eyes of a dog, these little 549 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 1: blood vessels that are gonna burst as a result of 550 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: this added pressure. So yeah, it would present in there 551 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,760 Speaker 1: as well. One other point I'd like to talk about, Joe, 552 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: is could this have been prevented? There were family members 553 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: trying to get wellness checks, but they're in two different states. 554 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: Is there any point that could have been made, Joe, 555 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: to have prevented this from happening. No, I'm I'm a 556 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: seen so many death investigations over the course of my 557 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: career that it has. It has again solidly founded my 558 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: belief in that we are all creatures of free will. 559 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: There's no way, And some people have put this forward 560 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,839 Speaker 1: about you know, these family members that lived up in Connecticut, 561 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,719 Speaker 1: they're they're trying to get information, but they're being stonewalled. 562 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: These deaths resulted directly at the hand of tote Um 563 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: and Tony tote He he murdered his family. There's nothing 564 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,399 Speaker 1: that the family could have done any further. There's nothing 565 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 1: that the state could have done any further. At this 566 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: point in time, the guy was in a state of 567 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: mind where he knew that he was in a financial collapse. 568 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 1: His business was was essentially over, he had lost his 569 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: licensure to practice as a physical therapist. And now you've 570 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: got the Feds knocking on the door. He knew that 571 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: this was gonna come. But how how how's the family 572 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: in Connecticut going to know that? I mean, I've got 573 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: family members um in in other locations, but I don't 574 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 1: know every single detail of their life. But there they 575 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 1: know enough to be worried. Remember it's around the holidays. 576 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,879 Speaker 1: You've got Thanksgiving, you've got Christmas, you got New Year's 577 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: coming up. They actually sent the police, you know, they 578 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,359 Speaker 1: requested the police go out and do a welfare check. Well, 579 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: the police, you know, they show up at the house 580 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,759 Speaker 1: and they look in the windows on the on the 581 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: first floor, they kind of walk around make sure there's 582 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,359 Speaker 1: no signs of forest entry. When this is not broken out, 583 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:36,800 Speaker 1: door hasn't been kicked in, and they don't see anything 584 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: that really gives them pause. This is a family that 585 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,400 Speaker 1: lives in this house, they rent this house. And just 586 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: because no one walks walks out the door, you know, 587 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: when you knock on it, it doesn't give the police 588 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 1: carte blanche to go kicking the door in and search 589 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:58,839 Speaker 1: throughout the house to find anybody. UM. I don't know 590 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: that this could have necess ssarily been uh been prevented 591 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 1: on any level whatsoever. Uh. This is a decision that 592 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 1: squarely falls on the shoulders of Tony toat he made 593 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 1: the decision to eradicate his family. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan 594 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,760 Speaker 1: and this is body bags