1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: My Space used to be the most popular website in America. 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: It launched in two thousand and three and peaked in 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight with over one hundred million users. 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: At the height of its popularity, a quarter of a 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: million users were signing up for new accounts every day. 6 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: Most of the people on the site were young, in 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: their teens and twenties. It was at the center of 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: their social lives. I'm twelve journey routeen. I'm currently thirteen. 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: I'm turned fourteen September twenty six. I'll be fifteen October fifth, fifteen. Anyway, 10 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: I'll need to comment on my pitch cut. I'll take 11 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: cute pitch out. Some of you all want to get 12 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: to know me lea meet friend request, because I approve 13 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: all of them. My name is Joanne McNeil. I'm a 14 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: writer who has covered internet culture since the early days 15 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: of social media. I have watched social networks rise and fall, 16 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: and of all these companies, MySpace has always struck me 17 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 1: as the most fascinating, and my fascination is shared with 18 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: a lot of people, including many who were too young 19 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: to even have been on it. I wrote a book 20 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: called Lurking, a History of Social media since the beginning 21 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: of the Worldwide Web, and in my research I kept 22 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: coming across young people talking about MySpace like a cool 23 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: scene that they wish they could have been part of, 24 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:43,199 Speaker 1: like CBGB or Studio fifty four. Part of what draws 25 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: me into MySpace is the era MySpace launched in the 26 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: early aughts, when suddenly the Internet was very fast, people 27 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: transition to broadband connections after slow dial of ISPs. Another 28 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: part of it is the ulture. With this increased bandwidth 29 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: and speed, you could share pictures and music files much 30 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 1: more easily than before. Users did this on MySpace. When 31 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: my Space launched, social media was an unknown quantity. People 32 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: had no idea how to make money off of social networks, 33 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: or even if they could make money off of it, 34 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: and the consequences of social media had yet to be seen. 35 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: Issues like surveillance and harassment became more complex. As users 36 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: transitioned from a largely tech space to Internet experience to 37 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: image based social media. Things shifted with MySpace, including some 38 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: positive new directions. Because MySpace offered Internet users something new, 39 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: the possibilities of how to act on it felt endless. 40 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: Space offered opportunities for people to express their creativity, and 41 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: meet people in ways that felt thrilling and maybe a 42 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 1: little bit scary at the time. Someone could be posting 43 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: from their parents' house in the suburbs one minute and 44 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: become a superstar musician the next. Oh yeah, that's another 45 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: defining feature of MySpace. The grown ups weren't there. The 46 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: social network often felt like a house party throne when 47 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: someone's parents went out of town. For better or worse, 48 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: teenagers say MySpace is a great way to express yourself. Police, however, 49 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: call MySpace a predators buffing and now for our next story. 50 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: For some people in cigarettes, for others gambling, but for 51 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: millions of teens, their newest addiction is MySpace. June sixth, 52 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: two thousand and six or six six six came and 53 00:03:55,520 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: went without Satanic groups waging war against Christians, but the 54 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: incident left school officials wondering how to deal with problems 55 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: arising from conversations on the popular website MySpace dot com. 56 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: But MySpace could also be a lifeline. People use MySpace 57 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,679 Speaker 1: in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina to keep in touch 58 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 1: with friends and family members after they evacuated Louisiana. Soldiers 59 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,559 Speaker 1: in Iraq and Afghanistan use the social network to stay 60 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: connected with people back home. MySpace was all of these 61 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 1: things because MySpace wasn't just Tom Anderson and Krista Wolf, 62 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: the co founders of the social network, or Rupert Murdoch 63 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: who acquired it, or even Tila Tequila or any of 64 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: its other famous users who might now be called influencers. 65 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 1: It was a place where millions of people could connect 66 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: to one another. I think each platform comes kind of 67 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: synonymous with time and culture. So you know, there's like 68 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: the vine era, or like we're in the TikTok era now, 69 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: or like Instagram, And I think my Space was kind 70 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: of like this thing that felt very relevant at least 71 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: in certain worlds in the mid two thousands, but it 72 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: lost that relevance pretty quickly because it couldn't ultimately like 73 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: scale up to be mainstream like Facebook. That's Taylor Lorenz, 74 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: Washington Post tech reporter, an author of Extremely Online, a 75 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: forthcoming book on influencers. After I spoke with Taylor, she 76 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: sent a tweet out to her followers asking who had 77 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: memories of my Space and if they would share. These 78 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: responses give you a glimpse of people's feelings and memories 79 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: about the social network. I can remember being just out 80 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: of college, my first job and just agonizing over who 81 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: to put in my top eight college friends. People from hell, 82 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: new work friends, just complete nonsense. I was the perfect age. 83 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: When my Space came around in high school. It was 84 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: the first time we realized there were kids just like 85 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: us in other towns. It opened up, so I got 86 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: sent a bunch of anonymous messages over my Space as 87 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 1: a team that were like nice and affirming, and they 88 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: felt kind of magical, and I would respond to them 89 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 1: using my profile page. The anonymous messenger later revealed that 90 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,359 Speaker 1: they were my psychiatrist. And I think I was fifteen. 91 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: With a hundred million users, there are hundred million stories 92 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: you could tell. So what was my Space? What drew 93 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: people to it? Why aren't people using it anymore? And 94 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 1: why do people who weren't even born when my Space 95 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: launched feel like they missed out on something special. We'll 96 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: explore all that in this series, and we will take 97 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: you back to that moment, which was incredibly influential and messy, 98 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: and it remains largely under explored. You have to keep 99 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: in mind everyone was making up the rules on the fly. 100 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: This is true of the users, and it was also 101 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: true of what was happening inside the company itself. Everyone 102 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: was figuring out MySpace in real time. What happened in 103 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: the MySpace era would have sweeping implications for all the 104 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: platforms to follow. But before we get into the experiences 105 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: that users had, from musicians to soldier stationed abroad, let's 106 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: start at the very beginning. MySpace does not have your 107 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: typical Silicon value origin story. Its founders weren't typical startup guys, 108 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: and the success of MySpace back then it seemed just 109 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: as unlikely. If you were on MySpace, I bet I 110 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: can get asked the name of one of your friends, 111 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: Tom Anderson, that Tom MySpace Tom. Tom was everyone's friend. 112 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: If you sign up for a MySpace account, Tom would 113 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: appear on your friends list automatically. You couldn't see people 114 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 1: unless you had a friend and Friendster was first, and 115 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: we were trying to compete, so when people signed up, 116 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: they wouldn't see anything. That's boring. So I put myself 117 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: as this person that could connect everyone else, so you'd 118 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: see people right when you signed up. That was the idea, 119 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: and it worked because Tom looked friendly in his profile picture. 120 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: He looked like a normal indie rock eye from La. 121 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: He even shaved a few years off his age to 122 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: make him seem like part of the young crowd on 123 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: the site. I mean, Tom is like such an interesting 124 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: guy because he does seem like he was sort of 125 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: a creative spark behind MySpace. He certainly was an emotional 126 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: heart of it, and he was a very private person 127 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: but also very experimental. That's Julia Anguin. She's an investigative 128 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 1: journalist at the founder of the Markup. The company first 129 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: came on her radar after News Corp acquired it in 130 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: two thousand and five. My Space wasn't the first social network, 131 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: and we'll get into some earlier examples like Frontster and 132 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: black Planet in our next episode, but it quickly surpassed 133 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:49,079 Speaker 1: these competitors. So back in two thousands, I was beat 134 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: reporter at the Wall Street Turtle and my beat was 135 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 1: news Corp. I was supposed to just cover Rupert Murdox company, 136 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: and and that's how beats were at the journal, you 137 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: just really focused on a big company like news Corp 138 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: would have one dedicated reporter. And so I actually hadn't 139 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: really heard of MySpace until News Corp bought it, and 140 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: I remember I had to write up the acquisition. It 141 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: was announced late in the day and I was scrambling 142 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: and I was shocked at how popular it was. I 143 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:27,439 Speaker 1: was like, what is this thing? Later she wrote a 144 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,319 Speaker 1: book about the company at the fallout of this acquisition, 145 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: Stealing my Space, which was published in two thousand and nine. 146 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: The story of my Space was about a bunch of 147 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: people who were really not that good at what they did, 148 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: but we're successful. These guys were just really good marketers. 149 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: They were really interested in my Space as a way 150 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: to get to meet with bands and go and meet 151 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: cool girls and go to clubs, and so it was 152 00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: definitely a party atmosphere. The characters behind my Space were 153 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: intriguing to Jolia Sugar up in Silicon Valley, hearing about 154 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 1: these coding geniuses and entrepreneurial legends like Steve and Was. 155 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 1: The MySpace founders were very different. They were not the 156 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: crowd I was used to in Tich, which was bunch 157 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: of engineers who went to Stanford and had a brilliant 158 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: idea and then started, you know, a little startup on 159 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: Sandhill Road. Right. They were Los Angeles party dudes. Tom 160 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: Anderson had founded the company with Christa Wolf inside a 161 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: Los Angeles space startup called e Universe. Before my Space, 162 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: Tom had worked for Chris as a copywriter and product 163 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: tester at another startup. Tom was a musician. He went 164 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: to film school and dabbled in the hacker community as 165 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: a teenager. You could definitely say Tom was entrepreneurial. He 166 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: had some experience running a porn website too. Cristal Wolf, 167 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: who had worked in sales and marketing, was the one 168 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: who came up with a name like seemingly everything about MySpace. 169 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: It got its name haphazardly my Space. It was just 170 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 1: sort of on a flip. It seemed like a good deal. 171 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: I think it was five thousand dollars. Company that was 172 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: going bankrupt was selling it and decided to buy it. 173 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: Came up with the idea from MySpace, and we're just 174 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: scratching our heads for what a good name could be, 175 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: and we came up with all these crazy names that 176 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: were really ridiculous, like commingo, and then it was just 177 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: sort of this moment, Oh yeah, we bought the url 178 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: MySpace a year ago. Let's use that Chris had bought 179 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: the domain name from a former client, an online storage 180 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: startup that one bust, and had been sitting on it 181 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: to understand how it all happened, why Chris and Tom 182 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: would make a play for social media in the first place, 183 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: and how they went on to build America's most popular 184 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: website on the opts, it helps to know some of 185 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: the backstory on Euniverse, the company where my space was founded. 186 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 1: My Space was just one of many little projects at 187 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: this company called e Universe, which was an early kind 188 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: of crappy e commerce company that did all sorts of 189 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: garbage right. They sold vitamins that were definitely sketchy, and 190 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: they did like these pop up ads that were really 191 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: gross and like they were in all of these spaces 192 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: that were kind of like the underbelly of the Internet. 193 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: Back then, people called this spyware or adware. It was 194 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: a real nuisance. E Universe had products they offered as 195 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: free downloads, like animation that would make your cursor look 196 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 1: like an American flag. But if you downloaded one of 197 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: their animations, it might trigger pop up ads, little websites 198 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: that could follow a user around as they served the web. 199 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: In two thousand and two, e Universe, what would become 200 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: the MySpace pairing company, was holding on as one of 201 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: the few survivors of the dot com crash. It's worth 202 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: remembering like this was after the dot com boom and bust, 203 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: So there had been this huge build up where everyone 204 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: was like, Oh my god, the Internet's gonna be still amazing, 205 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: and all this money raced in the early two thousands, 206 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: and then it just blew up in two thousand and 207 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: one and collapsed. And basically from two thousand and two 208 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: to two thousand and eight or so, people talk about 209 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: it as like the Internet Winter, where there was not 210 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: really a lot of investment because people were like, uh, 211 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: we got burned on all these companies like pets dot 212 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: com that really didn't turn out, and so there wasn't 213 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: a lot of investors, and so the people who survived 214 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: were people who came up with these kind of scrappy, 215 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: underbelly kind of businesses, and The Universe was one of those. 216 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: E Universe, which would later be renamed Intermix, was not 217 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: without its critics. In two thousand and five, the company 218 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: was sued for its practices distributing spywear to unsuspecting users. 219 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: Elliot Spitzer was Attorney General in New York and he 220 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: was pretty aggressive in setting up an Internet Prosecution Bureau. 221 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: At the time, there weren't a lot of attorney generals 222 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: who were Internet savvy or who had started bringing cases 223 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: against Internet companies, because the Internet scene was still very 224 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: nascent right and wasn't necessarily seen as interesting targets. Some 225 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: of the first ones he brought were against the predecessor 226 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: companies of Intermix and Universe. This was the year before 227 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: Elliot Spitzer was elected Governor of New York and three 228 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: years before his big scandal as Governor of New York. 229 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: Very very briefly, Spitzer had a rendezvous with a sex 230 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: worker named Ashley de Prey. After the scandal broke, he 231 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: resigned as governor in two thousand and eight. Ashley to Prey, 232 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: by the way, had a pretty act of MySpace page, 233 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: including music tracks, and at the time, gossip columnists were 234 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: poring over Ashley's page. But let's rewind back to Elliot Spitzer, 235 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: the then New York Attorney General who was cracking down 236 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: on spyware. Spitzer was doing important work. He really helped 237 00:16:55,520 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 1: start this movement to raise concerns about the safety of 238 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: my spaces platform. Intermix settled the lawsuit and agreed to 239 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: seven point five million and penalties over three years and 240 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: to stop distributing adware programs. The case was unusual because 241 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: the way people talked about user privacy back then was different. 242 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 1: The advocates at that time in the privacy space were 243 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: mostly focused on government surveillance, so there was a lot 244 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: of focus on the National Security Agency and police surveillance, 245 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 1: but the privacy community wasn't really focused on corporate surveillance 246 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 1: because there really wasn't that much of it at that point. 247 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: Her investigation into my Space as a Wall Street Journal 248 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: reporter was a turning point in Julia England's own career. 249 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: My Space was when I first learned about the issue 250 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: that we call privacy, that I like to call data exploitation. 251 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: It occurred to me that basically what they were telling 252 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: was they were giving you their users free software. Previously, 253 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: if you wanted to set up a website for yourself, 254 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: you would go buy software at a store. Back then, 255 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: it still cost like sixty dollars to buy some software 256 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 1: and you'd get a box that we shrink wrapped. You 257 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,360 Speaker 1: take the CD home, you'd load it up, and then 258 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: you could build something. You could build a webpage. But 259 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: they were basically giving users that for free, and the 260 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: way the users were paying them was with all this 261 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 1: information that exchange data and information from users for a 262 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: free online service from a company is a more commonly 263 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 1: recognized trade these days. In rest prospect, I would say 264 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: that the legacy of my Space is actually the pioneering 265 00:18:46,640 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: of this business model of monetizing user data. While at 266 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 1: e Universe, Tom and Chris had at their disposal the 267 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: company's database of over thirty million email addresses. They had 268 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 1: all these email addresses to announce this new social network 269 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: from their windowless office near lax And this social network, MySpace, 270 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: was the perfect project for this internet marketing company because 271 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: it meant that the emails of everyone who signed up 272 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: with a new account could be added to the database. 273 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: Tom became the president of MySpace and Chris became its CEO. 274 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: Tom Anderson, as Everyone's Friend, had at one point over 275 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: one hundred million online friends, but CHRISTA. Wolfe kept to 276 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: study one hundred and seventy seven friends. Still neither of 277 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: them owned this company. Their lack of independence presented a problem. 278 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: Space was a subsidiary of this parent company Intermix and 279 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: MySpace they had some autonomy because they ran the site themselves, 280 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: so the founders of it, you did have that feeling 281 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: that they were their own company. But Intermix had basically 282 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: the option to buy MySpace as part of the legal contract. 283 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: In two thousand and five, when MySpace was seeing enormous 284 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: traffic sixteen million visitors a month, the biggest social network 285 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: in the world was sold to News Corps. It was 286 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: the head of Intermix who negotiated the deal. Essentially, they 287 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: were able to exercise that contract, that ability to buy 288 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:55,479 Speaker 1: out Myspace's shares without the knowledge or consent of the 289 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 1: founders of MySpace. And so they basically did the secret 290 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: deal behind the acts of the founders with River Murdock 291 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 1: to sell MySpace from out from underneath the founders, I 292 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 1: mean tragically. Like as a reporter who covers technology and 293 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: has covered Silicon Valley for a long time, these kinds 294 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: of things happen, I mean more frequently than you would think, 295 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: because you know, founders setting up their companies. You know, 296 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: just there's a lot of people who prey on their 297 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: inexperience and add clauses. And that's a classic thing that 298 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: investors do is put in you know, legal language to 299 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: give themselves options. Because the fact is the investors and 300 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: Intermix wanted to cash out. They didn't want to wait 301 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: for you know, MySpace was like, Oh, we want to 302 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: be like the vibe of MTV is our vibe and 303 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: like all this vibe stuff. But the investors just want 304 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: their money, and they want the most money, and so 305 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: they set up the terms so that they had the 306 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: ability to execute when they wanted to. Chris and Tom 307 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: were each thirty million dollars. They left the company. In 308 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, News Corps brought in a new 309 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 1: CEO and its own people and really took over the company. 310 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: The way Richard Rosenblatt, CEO of Intermix, pitched the company 311 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: to Rupert Murdock is instructive and how it captures what 312 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: people thought of social media. In two thousand and five, 313 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: Rosenblatt sold MySpace as a self sustaining entertainment business. Julia 314 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: has a great quote from their exchange in her book. Yeah, 315 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 1: I want to read this quote because it's actually such 316 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: a great quote that he said to Rupert Murdatt. Mister murdat, 317 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: MySpace is the perfect media company. Unlike traditional media companies, 318 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: MySpace generates free content through its users. It generates free 319 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 1: traffic by its users inviting their friends and all you 320 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: have to do is sell the ads. It was user 321 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: generated content old media, meaning before and four you had 322 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,360 Speaker 1: to pay to produce a film or fund the recording 323 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: of an album. But in the eyes of investors, social 324 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: media generated itself because there were users hanging out on 325 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: the platform. You didn't need money to produce a film 326 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 1: or record an album. The content is populated on its 327 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: own just by being active there. People would watch and 328 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: listen and get glued to what happened on the website, 329 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: at least in theory and in theory when people were 330 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 1: actually hanging out on my Space. It seems like Rubert 331 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: Murdoch wanted to just find a way into the Internet, right. 332 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: He was like, I've got all these things. I've got 333 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: satellite TV, I've got cable TV, I've got newspapers. But 334 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: the future it's going to be the Internet, and so 335 00:23:54,720 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: I want a foothold there. And he was not wrong, right. 336 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: My Space was in some sense like an interesting play 337 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: because it was a really hot, fast growing social network, 338 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: and he was not wrong. The social networking was going 339 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: to become big. But what happened was, of course Facebook 340 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: ate their lunch, and so it was maybe the wrong 341 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: social network to bed on but you know, he had 342 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: kind of had a fifty fifty shot there because my 343 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 1: Space and Facebook were the two top ones, so he 344 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: at least directionally grabbed, you know, in the right direction, 345 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 1: even if he sort of picked the wrong one. Julia 346 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: Anglin has a quote from Rupert Murdoch and her book 347 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: forecasting that my Space was on track to be the 348 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: biggest mass platform for advertising in the world. Well, you know, 349 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: it's funny about Murdoch's quote, right, Like he's just describing Facebook, right, 350 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: They're the biggest single mass platform for advertising in the world. 351 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 1: So he wasn't wrong that there was potential there. It's 352 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,439 Speaker 1: just that in the end, I think the engineering, the 353 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: lack of engineering expertise and talent, and the lack of 354 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: focus on an abilities to outcompete on actual quality of 355 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: the product is what doomed my Space to fail against Facebook. 356 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: And so even though I say that this marketing genius 357 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: and hucksterism is important, you still have to have that 358 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: underpinning of the great engineering and the great talent. And 359 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: that was the thing that ultimately undid them was that 360 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: they didn't have that. This unraveling happened very soon after 361 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: Julia's book was released in two thousand and nine. By 362 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,239 Speaker 1: the time I finished reporting the book, I pretty much 363 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: knew they were not gonna succeed. And it was actually 364 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: mostly because of the news Corp acquisition. There was so 365 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 1: much turmoil and almost all mergers fail, like that's just 366 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: a rule of merger life. And then it is also 367 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: true that news Corp didn't know how to compete, right, 368 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 1: because the thing is, this is this giant media company 369 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: and they have this hot property, but it's locked in 370 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: this battle with Facebook, and this is something that requires 371 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: strategic thinking, like should we clean up the nightclub or 372 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: should we just double down on that and compete with 373 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: Facebook on that. MySpace had neither the edge of a 374 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: New York City digital media startup nor the loose libertarian 375 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: spirit of Silicon Valley. The social network felt chaotic and 376 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: open and a free for all sense, much like the 377 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: city where it was founded, Los Angeles. They made the Internet, 378 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 1: which up until then had been kind of like a 379 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: nerdy space, feel like a nightclub, like I feel like 380 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: a cool place and also slightly dangerous. My Space felt 381 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: cool because, however massive it was, it was still a 382 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: youth oriented and with various scenes and clicks. It felt 383 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: very niche. Plus Internet culture was not yet mainstream. Here 384 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: is Taylor Lorenz. Again, my Space was notable and it 385 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: was big, but it wasn't TikTok size, right, Like, it 386 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: was still relatively small, and the Internet was so much 387 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 1: smaller that I think, you know, people that were big 388 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: on the platform couldn't really scale out and achieve like 389 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: mass fame because my Space culture was not like the 390 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: Internet culture was not mass culture in the two thousands, 391 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 1: and so it just they were sort of inherently niche 392 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: and all of this was happening before there was viral content, 393 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: before algorithms filtered what Internet users would see. Yeah, I 394 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 1: think that now with algorithms, it just we take a 395 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: lot for granted modern Internet users that are younger, that 396 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: never had to operate on sites like my Space to 397 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: sort of expect the most engaging content to be delivered 398 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: to them. And it's just something that you know, was 399 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 1: not the case back in a day, like you had 400 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 1: to kind of really hunt around for different things. There 401 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 1: wasn't like a for you page that you would consume 402 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: content on my Space through to kind of to find it. 403 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: It was the start of something new through my Space, 404 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: we can see how the modern Internet came into being. 405 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 1: More to come in our series Main Accounts The Story 406 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: of my Space this season on Main Accounts, The Story 407 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: of MySpace, it almost seemed like an extended party, like 408 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: an extended digital party. And these investors in Silicon Valley 409 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: said black people and the Internet. Back then, it was 410 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: like your place to be weird. It was like your 411 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: place to like show the like freaky or like alt 412 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: side of yourself. It hit me as trobably like Crichino 413 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, guys super racist. The MySpace 414 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: data loss is something that I always put in air quotes. 415 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: I have no faith that this was done accidentally. Rupert 416 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: Murdoch lost lots and lots of money on my Space 417 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: because it turned out was actually not a good business. 418 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: Main Accounts The Story of my Space is written and 419 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: hosted by me Joanne McNeil, editing its sound design by 420 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: Mike Coscarelli and Mary Do. Original music by Alice McCoy, 421 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: Mixing and mastering by Josh Fisher, Research and fact checking 422 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: by Austin Thompson, Jocelyn Sears, and Marissa Brown. Show logo 423 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: by Lucy Kntonia. Special thanks to Ryan Murdoch. Grace Views 424 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: and behead Frasier. Our associate producer is Lauren Philip, our 425 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: senior producer is Mike Coscarelli, and our executive producer is 426 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: Jason English. If you're enjoying the show, leave us a 427 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: rating and a review on your favorite podcast po form Sadly, 428 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: my MySpace page is no longer around, but you can 429 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: find me on Twitter at Joe Mick. Let us hear 430 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: your MySpace story aunts check out my book lurking Maine Accounts. 431 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: The Story of MySpace is a production of iHeart Podcasts.