WEBVTT - Live … from the metaverse! 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.920 Hi everyone, I'm Katie Kuric, and this is next question. 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:08.480 You know, it suddenly feels like everyone is talking about 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:11.640 the metaverse, doesn't it. This week we are looking at 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:15.080 the rising trend of the metaverse, the metaverse, metaverse, which 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:17.400 doesn't exist yet and no one really knows what it is. 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:20.479 People and companies are pouring hundreds of millions of dollars 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.600 into the vision of the metaverse, But what the hell 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:26.599 is the metaverse and what could it mean for our 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:31.880 collective future? Technically, it's defined as a network of three 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:36.920 D virtual worlds focused on social connection. Thank you, Wikipedia. 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:41.279 But otherwise the only real consensus seems to be that 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:47.200 it's going to be huge. How huge? Well, Google, Apple, Snapchat, 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:52.520 and Microsoft have all made mega meta investments, and Facebook 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:57.280 founder Mark Zuckerberg even renamed his company Meta. I believe 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:00.280 the metaverse is the next chapter for the Internet, and 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:03.639 it's the next chapter for our company to Honestly, this 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:06.759 meta moment kind of reminds me of another seminal moment 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:11.679 in our tech evolution back in You know, a lot 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:13.720 of people use it and communicate. I guess they can 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:17.240 communicate with NBC writers and producers. Allison, can you explain 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:21.319 what internet is. Yeah, that's right. I've always been on 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:24.880 the cutting edge of technological revolutions. So I meet a 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:28.280 date with Wall Street Journal tech columnist Joanna Stern. Is 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:30.840 really nice and funny, by the way, to meet me 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.360 in the metaverse, so I could see for myself what 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:38.560 this whole thing is all about. A small spoiler alert, 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:41.920 we and not just me seemed to be in the 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:49.080 dial up stage of the metamorphosis. So I'm very excited, Joanna, 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:52.560 to have you as a tour guide today for my 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:56.960 exploration into the metaverse, because you're an old hand at 0:01:56.960 --> 0:02:01.560 this right, I will say I have spent quite a 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:05.760 bit of time in the metaverse. Um, I you know, 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:08.400 I had a twenty four hour stint in the metaverse. 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:12.120 I have been frequently putting on my headset here in 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:15.120 my office. So I'm I'm ready to show you wherever 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:19.079 you'd like to go. I guess I know you wrote 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:22.440 this article for the Wall Street Journal, and I'm curious 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:25.160 what advice you would give me or anybody else who's 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:29.760 sort of a metaverse novice. Yeah. I mean the first 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:32.919 thing is kind of like understanding that the metaverse right 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.200 now is is not really a thing. Right it's this 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:40.760 potential of a future thing. So what I have written 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:45.200 about is virtual reality and meta The company formerly known 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:48.680 as Facebook has been saying is that virtual reality and 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:52.240 other forms of our digital our devices are going to 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:55.400 help us get to this metaverse, which is a digital 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:59.800 virtual world where we have avatars that ourselves and we 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.160 do things in this metaverse that we do in the 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:06.480 real world. Right We work, we work out, we play, 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:10.680 we play games, we do other sorts of activities, and 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.480 so we can do it in this other world. And 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:15.799 one of the ways to get there is virtual reality 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.040 right now. And so right now what we kind of 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:21.320 have a virtual reality headset um. There are a number 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:23.160 of them out there, but the most popular one is 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:25.640 made by Meta. It's called the Quest Too, and it 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:29.160 really is virtual reality. There are some apps that give 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:32.000 you a glimpse of what the metaverse could be or 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:36.240 will be. One of them being a meeting room area 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:39.000 where we could meet and we could have a conversation 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:42.400 around a virtual conference room table um. There are others 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.680 where they are sort of like playgrounds, virtual playgrounds and 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:50.480 virtual campfires, and there's kind of other games and things 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:53.480 like that. But right now, all of this is very 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:57.080 it's in its infancy, and it's not quite the metaverse. 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:00.320 We seem to be in a very meta moment though, 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:03.680 I think, Joanna, and when I hear you say we 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:07.360 can work out in the metaverse, that sounds absolutely ludicrous 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:11.480 to me, because you know, I am a physical being. 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.640 If I have my avatar doing a pilates class, oh, 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:18.400 isn't that great? But it's my avatar getting into shape 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:21.480 and and working on its core instead of me as 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:25.440 a human being doing the same. Well, this is where 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:28.200 we can get really meta, as you say, we can 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:33.080 get really deep and psychological and philosophical. Will these avatars 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:37.440 be us? Will we be different people in these avatar bodies? 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:41.320 But again, like sort of, this is the word about 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:43.880 the metaverse, right like people are talking about in these 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:47.560 vague ways right now. Actually, one of my favorite things, 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:50.000 if not my only thing I actually really like doing 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:53.719 and VR is working out. And I know that sounds crazy, 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:58.560 but there's an album you mean, like playing tennis or box. Yeah, 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:01.120 so there's an app, paper and troll and you don't 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:03.480 actually have an avatar. It's just you just see arms, right, 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:05.640 and you see your hands and yeah, like I'm working 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.919 out I'm at the base of Machu Picchu with some 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:13.200 instructor who, like every other instructor, is you telling me 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:16.960 and motivating me like my peloton instructors, like my soul 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:20.440 psycho instructor to keep hitting the things and pick up 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:23.080 my space, my pace and do all of these things. 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:25.560 Um again, Like, is that the metaverse or is that 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:30.200 just the virtual reality game that's kind of working out? Okay, 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:34.800 so let's do this thing. Okay, let's let's see if 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:38.200 we can do this thing. Let's go into the metaverse, Joanna, 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:43.560 I will see you as an avatar Katie, so join 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:57.920 us wet too in the metaverse right after the break. Hi, Joanna, 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:03.200 Hi Dad, Getting me I am and getting here has 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:05.240 not been half the fun. I mean, this has been 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.280 a bit of a ship show. We had to do 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:12.360 a lot of behind the scenes tech work and put 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.560 this on hold while we figured it out. So I 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:19.200 guess to say the metaverse isn't quite ready for prime 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:23.320 times a bit of an understatement. Huh. I'm not happy 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:26.000 you experienced all this, but I am also sort of 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:29.440 happy you experienced this because this is what it's like 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:33.680 right now. And so where are we, Joanna? In terms 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:38.760 of the development of the metaverse early stages. Well, funny 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.640 enough that you asked us on stage, literally we are 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:46.600 on the early stages of this kind of weird looking stage. 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:50.600 But as you have experienced and just trying to put 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:56.080 your avatar and my avatar in one virtual room, it's 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:59.680 a lot. It's hardware that you've got to put on 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:03.880 your head. You've then got to navigate this weird software 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:06.839 and figure out on top of that a social network 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:11.360 layer where we both look like avatars. And so all 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:14.720 of that right now is just early days in terms 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:17.360 of the technology. And then you have to think about, 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.200 just like any technology, then there's the adoption, right the 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:24.600 how do people accept this technology, how do they think 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:27.160 of this as a thing that they would like to use, 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:29.800 what is the reason they want to use it? And 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:32.360 then looming over all of that, I like to say, 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:34.960 is this question of trust. Are we going to trust 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:38.880 this technology? And is again back to that second point, 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.640 is there enough here that makes it worth us trusting 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.360 in us doing so all of that is to say, 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:47.360 is it's a lot, Katie, It's a lot. It is 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:51.600 a lot. It's a lot, Joanna. Meanwhile, your hands are 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:55.960 kind of floating looks like you have handcuffs that are 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:59.640 not attached to your You don't have any arms, first 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:02.360 of all, and you don't have any legs, Joanna, I'm 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:04.680 sorry to tell you, Katie, you don't have You don't 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:07.040 have arms or legs either, and you're wearing like shorts. 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:10.720 Is my outfit based on what I'm wearing or did 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:13.960 we select an output for me? Well, even if you 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:16.600 selected an outfit for you, I will tell you that 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.840 this app does not have very high fashion choices or 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.320 many choices. We did have to do this in all 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.400 of space, which is a little bit um. The experience 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:29.560 here is is not as realistic as some of the 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:35.000 other social VR platforms. But you, even with that, doesn't 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:36.640 it sort of feel like we're in the room together. 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:38.600 And do you feel a little bit uncomfortable when I 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:43.400 come close to you? Um, you're you're well, I don't 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:47.400 feel you're okay now, but come a little closer, Joanna. Right, 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:51.400 but this is weird. Now You're definitely invading my personal space, 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:55.240 Like yeah, right, And if I'm like screaming in your face, 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:59.000 what if I'm saying something inappropriate or I'm yelling at 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.760 you or I don't know, if we these were hands 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:04.360 that actually had more movement and I punched you, it 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:08.320 might feel a little real, yeah, and threatening, and it 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:11.239 would feel more real than on a two D iPhone, 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:15.960 right on a two D story. And so even though 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:20.160 this is so rudimentary and basic, you are getting the 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:25.680 sense of how real it could feel. And wow, that's exciting. 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:30.319 It's also scary. Well, I have a question, Joanna. I mean, 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:34.839 you look like a cartoon character, as do I. So 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:40.400 the question is will these avatars eventually be replaced with 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:46.960 real looking figures so I could actually be conversing with 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:53.760 you instead of a cartoon character of you. So there 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:58.120 are already some options that let you do that. One 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.600 is called spatial and you actually really upload a photo 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:04.880 of yourself and it it doesn't look great, but it 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:07.840 will take your face and sort of try to make 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:10.240 it a three D s scan on top of a 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:13.480 avatar body. And so even when you speak, your mouth 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:15.720 moves too. So that's one thing that they don't have, 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.920 or we don't have enabled in this all space right now. 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:22.880 And then there are lots of different technologies that are 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.880 going to let us actually sort of scan ourselves and 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:29.679 look like holograms. This is something Microsoft's working on. Lots 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.040 of other big tech companies are working on this. So 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:35.119 you would basically have a three D selfie of yourself, 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:39.400 and right now it's tough to do. These are bigger files. 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.400 You need special cameras. But imagine that sort of just 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:45.360 coming to your iPhone or to your webcam and being 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:47.760 able to scan your face and jump into here, and 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.400 you look like you and maybe we also have some 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:53.080 nicer clothes, and we sort of feel like this is 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:57.160 our holograms. They're talking, well, let's let's kind of help 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.360 listeners describe where we are and what we're scene. And 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:02.120 then I want you to tell us about all the 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:05.160 space because I don't even know exactly what that is. 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:09.240 But we're basically in a small theater that looks like 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:12.800 it would be maybe somewhere in Tribeca or the Village. 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:17.520 It's got brick walls, Um, it's got a stealing with 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:22.160 with lights, and we're at a sort of a semicircle 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:25.880 desk with microphones, and there's a big screen behind us 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:28.839 that says next question with Katie currct the name of 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:33.000 this podcast, and um, it's almost as if we're at 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:37.440 some kind of conference right a tech conference of some kind. Yeah. No, 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.840 it feels like we're on there's a round table stage 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:44.600 with microphones on the table. Um, I'm actually I'm sitting 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:45.880 in a chair. Are you sitting in a chair in 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:49.240 real life? Yeah, you're, well, you're you're kind of kneeling 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:51.760 on because you don't have any legs and it doesn't 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.520 show you sitting. You're kind of just you're the end 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:57.920 of your dresses on the chair if and your blue shorts, 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.000 and you have a sort of a heel shirt with 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:06.560 polka dots and a nice haircut. I was going to say, 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:10.199 what's my hair look like? Does it look good? Um? 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:11.880 I mean I saw your hair in real life. It 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:14.000 looked better in real life than it does it in virtual. 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:17.440 But the nice thing is like, if there's a breeze here, nothing, 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:19.599 nothing messes up your hair, so you never have to 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:24.200 brush it and it always looks like this, So that's good. Um. 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:27.840 But yeah, no, we're I. I I do actually feel 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.520 like I'm sort of sitting next to someone. Um. And 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:32.960 because I also hear your voice coming from that area, 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.360 I know to look towards you over here and talk 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:41.280 to you. Yeah. Almost, it feels like we're probably somewhere 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:45.400 in Manhattan downtown, right, Yeah. And I've actually so I've 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.520 gone to a number of virtual events and these kinds 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:52.560 of spaces in all Space, and all Space is a 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:56.720 social platform for virtual reality. You can think of it 0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:00.800 as sort of a early remember the AO ALL chat rooms, 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:03.480 Uh huh. So I thought to think of it a 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:05.880 little bit like that, because they are these can be 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:07.800 pretty public. Me and you are in a private room 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:12.679 right now, but we're talking, and people can join public 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:14.920 rooms like this. And I've been to a couple of 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:18.240 these rooms where people One of the ones that I 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:20.040 went to in a project that I was working on 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:23.360 was a comedy show where somebody stood on a stage 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:26.680 like this, and then lots of other avatars were in 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:30.400 the seats in the audience, and those people in the 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:34.320 audience couldn't talk, but you could just hear the person 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:38.160 on stage. You can make the room so everyone in 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.920 the room can talk um. But there are all these 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:44.680 different ways to configure what are really virtual events or 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:47.080 virtual spaces where people can meet up. And so I 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:48.840 kind of think of it as those like early days 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.120 of the A O L chat rooms where you go 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:53.679 in and you sort of meet random people and you 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:58.720 just start chatting with them. So this is Mark Zuckerberg's 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:04.080 new big at right, and tell me about what his 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:08.080 dreams are for the metaphors and why Facebook wanted to 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:12.520 plant their flag so early. Honestly, I think that he's 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.640 looking at this sort of interaction that we're having right 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:20.520 now in a virtual world together two people socializing as 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:24.560 what Facebook needs to be doing. Right. If you think 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:28.160 about what we did here, we went on, we made accounts, 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:32.400 we dressed our avatars, we gave them names, we put 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:34.800 on the headset, we came to a place to talk, right, 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.800 That's what Facebook has been for the Internet, right, a 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:43.360 place where people are congregating and socializing in a virtual space. Now, 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.480 if the future is in headsets and we are all 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.360 wearing glasses, let's say in five years down the line, 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.960 what company is going to dominate there? How does Facebook 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:57.000 make sure that it is one of the main companies 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.440 dominating in that space, like Apple and Google have dominated 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:04.240 in the phone space. So Facebook brings to the table 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:06.920 their social networking, but they're also here making the hardware. 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:09.840 The headset you're wearing right now is made by Meta 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:12.280 Sorry I keep going on Facebook, but formally known as 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.400 Facebook Meta makes that headset that you're wearing, and so 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:18.320 they're here in the hardware business to sell you hardware, 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.240 but then they want you to put on that headset 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:24.000 and live in their social network. But Joanna, if I 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:27.560 wanted to talk to you, why can't I just face 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.760 time you on my phone? And I don't you know, 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.480 I would prefer that. Is that just because I'm old. 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:39.920 The thing is that I actually did get into this 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:45.680 sort of vur world, sort of communal space a lot 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:49.840 during the pandemic, and so there was a couple of 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:52.520 times where I would meet some colleagues around a conference 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:56.040 room table like this, and it felt far more real 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.760 than the zooms we had been doing day after day 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:03.680 after your day. It did feel more real than a FaceTime, 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:07.400 even if we were avatars. And that's because of the presence. 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:11.160 That is, because you like, I'm looking at you right 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:13.920 now here and I'm in my basement, but like, for 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:15.800 some reason in my head, I also I'm like Katie's 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:17.680 like kind of in the corner of my office on 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:21.240 my printer. Like that's weird. You know, there's this melding 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:25.680 of the virtual and the real world that that happens 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.560 when you're wearing this that you don't have with FaceTime, 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:30.800 but you could see the potential. And this is what 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:34.760 augmented reality is about. Where your virtual hologram, as we 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.400 talked about before, comes into my living room and you 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.120 sit on my couch and I'm wearing my glasses and 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.880 you're just sitting on my couch. You won't look like 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:47.520 a cartoon. You'll look like a like you. Right, You'll 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:51.320 be wearing what you're really wearing. Maybe you'll customize it 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:53.520 and you'll have your real face, and you won't feel 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.200 like a cartoon. And that might feel more real than 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:58.720 holding up a phone or a tablet or you know, 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.000 a sort of a green that you've put on your 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:05.360 kitchen counter. So who else is getting into this space 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:10.360 other than meta slash Mark Zuckerberg. Eventually all the tech 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:12.960 companies are going to get into this space. Right now, 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.399 Microsoft has started They have what they call a hollow 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:20.560 lens headset that is more aimed at businesses and enterprise. 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.480 They are working towards more of this. In terms of 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:27.560 the metaverse, we expect Apple and Google. Lots of rumors 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:29.919 already that Apple has been working on headsets and that 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:34.480 augmented reality, which is different than virtual reality. This is 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.520 virtual reality right now, so we both don't see anything 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:41.440 around us, right, I just see this virtual space. Augmented 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.640 reality would be you see your real space and some 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:48.720 digital objects. So apples working on the latter part, the 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:52.320 augmented reality part of that. Snapchat is working on this. 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:55.800 They've already got some prototype glasses. They're working on augmented 0:17:55.800 --> 0:18:00.280 reality in their apps. Um some other big sort of 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:03.120 startups that have received a lot of money, but all 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:04.720 the big tech companies are going to be in this. 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:09.440 More of my exploration of the metaverse with the Wall 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:28.880 Street Journals. Joanna Starn coming up, I want to ask 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:31.840 you about scary situations that can happen in the metaverse. 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:35.479 This woman from the UK, there was a group of 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.880 people and she says she was sexually assaulted in the metaverse. 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:43.760 And what did you make of that? Well, let's let's 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:46.080 look at this situation right now. Me and you are 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:50.840 two avatars right and in here. This feels a little 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:56.320 bit more personal than a text chat on a Facebook group, 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:00.240 right right, or a text message back and forth. Earth 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:02.560 when I come up to you and I'm gonna do 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:04.119 this again, this this is a good answer to what 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:05.679 we were talking about. But when I come up to you, 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:08.720 it sort of feels like I'm in your space, right, 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:13.480 Like I'm I'm invading your personal space and you're hearing 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.960 my voice. So if I said some abusive things or 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.720 some mean things, or I was yelling, that would probably 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:25.359 feel worse than let's say, writing all caps in a Facebook, 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:28.679 because you've got more of your senses, Like I'm looking 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:31.280 at you even though your mouth isn't moving, I do 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:34.959 feel like I'm talking to you in this weird space 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:40.080 in my basement, but you're So this is all to 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:44.520 say you can see how something like harassment or abuse 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:48.639 in these areas, which has been a common thing on 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:51.640 the Internet since the beginning of the Internet, can feel 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:56.080 more real to people and think about the challenges on 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.280 the internet. You can kick someone out of the group, 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.040 right because immediately if you see some sorts of curse words, 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:05.639 you can quickly say that's bad, right, right, that that 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:08.720 that person is not abiding by our guidelines in this 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:12.440 room or in this in this space on our platform. 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:16.480 Here it's live audio, it's much harder to say, oh, 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:20.280 that's a bad thing somebody saying or that's that's not true. 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:24.040 That person saying information that's not true. We're sharing information 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:27.480 that's not true, and now they were going about abusing people. 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:31.280 That's that's a much harder thing to police and to 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:35.880 moderate with live audio and eventually live video like this. 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:39.480 But I wonder the idea that you're talking to what 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:42.040 seems to be more of a real person instead of 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:45.959 a thumbnail picture on some platform like Twitter or Facebook. 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:52.040 Do you think that might reduce the amount of nastiness 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:56.280 that we that is so prominent online. It's a really 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:59.520 good question, and I think it will change some social 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:03.880 Danna X. But the one of the biggest things we've 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.160 learned on the Internet is that bad people in real 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:09.240 life are bad people on the internet, right, I mean 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.159 just and and sometimes the Internet can make it easier 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:14.399 to be a bad person. Sometimes it could make it 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:17.760 easier to be a good person. Right, But when you 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:22.359 enter spaces with other people, people and human nature is 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:26.119 going to happen. And what are the tools that some 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:30.640 of these platforms give people. What are the rules and 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:35.639 the regulations that make people act within the guidelines of 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:39.359 the companies set forth. That's the big question about how 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:41.960 they're going to be able to even moderate that. Well. 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:46.080 The tech companies aren't really known for their sensitivity. I 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:49.679 mean a lot of them are run by pretty brollique guys, 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:55.399 and I'm curious if they're starting to think of some 0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:59.800 of these other issues that might be pervasive once this 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:04.600 technology is perfective. They're definitely starting to think of it. 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:09.000 But the and you have heard Mark Zuckerberk, he said 0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:11.600 already that we need to be smarter this time around. 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:14.600 As we're creating this, think about the potential problems before 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:16.800 the problems happened. As we know they did it in 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:20.840 many cases with the last number of years. But with 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:23.120 every new technology, there's going to be old problems. They're 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:26.240 going to be new problems. And so are we all 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:28.960 confident that there's not going to be problems now? They're 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:33.080 going to be problems. So what is the difference between 0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:37.720 the metaverse and when people talk about web three? That 0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:40.760 is a very good question, and I wish more people 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:43.160 even knew what either of those terms meant. I will 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:46.560 say I am often confused now reading both of those terms, 0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:49.800 and I see them just sort of being thrown around 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:55.080 like marketing terms. I will say, web three is this 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:58.400 idea of the next generation of the Internet, and there 0:22:58.400 --> 0:23:00.720 are a lot of buzzwords that people are throwing around 0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:05.720 with that metaverse, blockchain, crypto, n f T S. Let's 0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:07.800 say that that is what people are saying, is this 0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:12.119 next generation of the Internet. There are some central tenants 0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:15.360 that kind of tie that all together, but the ideas 0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:18.679 that the biggest central tenant that I've heard and the 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:21.400 most compelling thing is that we're more control right we 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:23.160 we are not going to be run by big tech 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:26.479 companies in this next version of the Internet. So I'll 0:23:26.560 --> 0:23:29.280 leave you with that. On the web. Three on metaverse, 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:34.480 the idea is really a virtual world that we all 0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:38.040 have virtual selves and we live in it. So some 0:23:38.080 --> 0:23:41.680 people will actually say we already have a metaverse, right um, 0:23:41.680 --> 0:23:44.320 where you interact with anything online. We live in a 0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:47.880 in a virtual world. You'll hear like things like roadblocks 0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:52.000 or Fortnite or other places which are communities that are 0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:55.960 built around a virtual space. Are versions of the metaverse. 0:23:57.240 --> 0:23:59.280 You'll hear Mark Zuckerberg say he wants to build a 0:23:59.280 --> 0:24:02.280