1
00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:05,360
Speaker 1: Let's be real here. We did not leave our current

2
00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,280
Speaker 1: icon on say the best of terms.

3
00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,200
Speaker 2: Not all daddies are good daddies, y'all.

4
00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:13,760
Speaker 1: Especially the ones who leave their adoptive kids in the dust.

5
00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:18,599
Speaker 1: Whour one out for Rodrigo Fernandez the Portrio Sule.

6
00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,600
Speaker 2: Have got Sancho's No.

7
00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,760
Speaker 1: Okay, But here on our podcast becoming an icon, we

8
00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:33,040
Speaker 1: know that icons aren't always perfect. So I want to

9
00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,480
Speaker 1: level the playing field with our listeners here and ask

10
00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:39,080
Speaker 1: ourselves a very twenty eighteen type of question.

11
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,760
Speaker 2: Which trashy talk show host did you watch when you

12
00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,159
Speaker 2: were way too young? Okay, I'll go first, Tracepan.

13
00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:51,080
Speaker 1: No, But for the record, Mari was my favorite problematic

14
00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,960
Speaker 1: talk show host. He's not problematic. The show was problematic.

15
00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,680
Speaker 1: It was anyway. Speaking of problematic, who is your favorite

16
00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:02,320
Speaker 1: atista that has let call it a colorful past.

17
00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,800
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I like, I don't want to just

18
00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:08,920
Speaker 2: state the obvious, because like I don't know what's really

19
00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,399
Speaker 2: going on, right, But like Britney Spears, okay, you know

20
00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,720
Speaker 2: what about you? Oh god, I.

21
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,200
Speaker 1: Know, okay, this is I hate saying this, but I.

22
00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:21,959
Speaker 2: Know it's so like h cringe.

23
00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,080
Speaker 1: Well it makes me icky. Here's the thing. I'm going

24
00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,240
Speaker 1: to separate the artist from the music. Yeah, but my

25
00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,480
Speaker 1: answer is Michael Jackson. It's always Michael Jackson.

26
00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,840
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, all right, yeah, like I mean, he is

27
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,039
Speaker 2: it's Michael Jackson.

28
00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,440
Speaker 1: I mean it's so I'm so uncomfortable because I feel

29
00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,280
Speaker 1: like I listen to the music and every time, like

30
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,360
Speaker 1: my son has never heard of Michael Jackson song. Oh,

31
00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,400
Speaker 1: and he loves music, like I mean, he loves Bruno

32
00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,400
Speaker 1: Mars like one of our icons. Like literally, my son's

33
00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,000
Speaker 1: love of music came from when we were researching the

34
00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,680
Speaker 1: Bruno Mars episodes that we did last season. He heard

35
00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:58,280
Speaker 1: it and all of a sudden, like a light turned

36
00:01:58,320 --> 00:01:59,720
Speaker 1: on in him. And that's what inspired me to like

37
00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,000
Speaker 1: put it in music class and like encourage his love

38
00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,040
Speaker 1: of dance and performance. I will not play Michael Jackson

39
00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,360
Speaker 1: for him. I don't even I don't really know what

40
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,040
Speaker 1: to say. I know, I know he's never heard it.

41
00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:10,840
Speaker 1: He's never heard heard.

42
00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,120
Speaker 2: That's just that's very interesting because if you liked him

43
00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,400
Speaker 2: so much, I know, like, do you listen to it without.

44
00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,800
Speaker 1: Yes, it's hard. I'm working through this in therapy, Okay,

45
00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,399
Speaker 1: I'm working through this in therapy. But what it signals

46
00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,680
Speaker 1: to me is that icons are imperfect, right, and Charro

47
00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,600
Speaker 1: the Guentitan is the perfect example of that because on

48
00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,960
Speaker 1: the one hand, we can talk about everything that we

49
00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,400
Speaker 1: sent It has done for Mexico, right. I mean, we're

50
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,520
Speaker 1: talking about donating extensively to education and health initiatives, playing

51
00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,320
Speaker 1: the free shows, right, but also contribution to music, to

52
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,760
Speaker 1: how it makes us feel like he's in our feelings.

53
00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,760
Speaker 2: But on the other hand, there is the way that

54
00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,679
Speaker 2: he treated Kukita and all the shit that went down

55
00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,160
Speaker 2: with Rodrigo. And there's also some stuff that we haven't

56
00:02:59,200 --> 00:02:59,959
Speaker 2: even gotten into.

57
00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:02,840
Speaker 1: Yet, some of which vicent that would own up to

58
00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,320
Speaker 1: much later in life, and some of which he never

59
00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:10,160
Speaker 1: answered for. The bad doesn't necessarily cancel out the good,

60
00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,320
Speaker 1: But that kind of goes both ways.

61
00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,760
Speaker 2: If we can't just love our icons at their worst,

62
00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,000
Speaker 2: do we deserve to stand them at their best? Like?

63
00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:20,120
Speaker 2: I don't think so.

64
00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:21,880
Speaker 1: I love that question. I feel like that could be

65
00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:22,800
Speaker 1: its own episode.

66
00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,160
Speaker 2: I can be a sure march. We need our merch

67
00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:26,200
Speaker 2: store beage.

68
00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:31,400
Speaker 1: Hello, I Heart, and some of Chinta's best work still

69
00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,200
Speaker 1: lies ahead late in life. Vicenta Fernandez would forever cement

70
00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,360
Speaker 1: his status is the king of ranchiras with definitive recordings

71
00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:39,760
Speaker 1: and concerts.

72
00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,440
Speaker 2: But the proud macho image he embodied on stage, on

73
00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,680
Speaker 2: the screen and on the records would continue to have

74
00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,880
Speaker 2: a unfortunate underside.

75
00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:56,520
Speaker 1: Today on becoming an icon vicent de Fernandez, the good,

76
00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:05,560
Speaker 1: the bad, the ugly and the future. I'm your host,

77
00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:07,520
Speaker 1: Liliana Ooscaz.

78
00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:11,360
Speaker 2: And I'm Joseph Carrio and this is Becoming an Icon.

79
00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,360
Speaker 1: A weekly podcast where we give you the rundown on

80
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,720
Speaker 1: how today's most famous latinv stars have shaped pop culture.

81
00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,120
Speaker 2: And given the world some extra double.

82
00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,640
Speaker 1: Sit back and get comfortable.

83
00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:27,400
Speaker 2: Because we are going in the only way we know how,

84
00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,560
Speaker 2: with buenas whenas riesas.

85
00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,800
Speaker 1: And a lot of opinions as we relive their greatest

86
00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,839
Speaker 1: achievements on our journey to find out what makes them

87
00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:50,920
Speaker 1: so iconic. Come two thousand and six and Chadro de

88
00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,200
Speaker 1: Wuentitan had gone three years without a single new recording.

89
00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,760
Speaker 2: Tinda was nearing the fortieth anniversary of his entry into

90
00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,320
Speaker 2: the industry and he was ready to come back with

91
00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:00,919
Speaker 2: a band.

92
00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,039
Speaker 1: First came the release of one of his finest albums,

93
00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,000
Speaker 1: Latrajerria de vacin The Tragedy of the cow and the

94
00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,360
Speaker 1: title track lives up to its name with a story

95
00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,680
Speaker 1: that ends in a horrible, bloody mistake.

96
00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,760
Speaker 2: A newly white cowboy leaves his wife at home to

97
00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,800
Speaker 2: go to work for three days. When his contract is up,

98
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,160
Speaker 2: he returns to his house in the middle of a storm,

99
00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,919
Speaker 2: walks to his bed and finds not one, but two

100
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:26,800
Speaker 2: people sleeping in.

101
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:31,400
Speaker 1: His bed drama. Immediately it's clear to him his wife

102
00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,640
Speaker 1: was unfaithful. In a fit of rage, the that Ghetto

103
00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,440
Speaker 1: pulls a pistol and fires on the two of them,

104
00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,680
Speaker 1: but when he looks beneath the bloody sheets, he realizes

105
00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:41,520
Speaker 1: something horrible.

106
00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,760
Speaker 2: The second body in his bed wasn't another man, but

107
00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,120
Speaker 2: his mother in law, who had come to stay with

108
00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,760
Speaker 2: his wife because she wanted to keep her company during

109
00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:53,640
Speaker 2: the storm.

110
00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,400
Speaker 1: The mother and daughter are buried and the funeral goers disperse,

111
00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,840
Speaker 1: but they soon hear a distant gunshot, and no one

112
00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,480
Speaker 1: has to guess who the bullet was, for that Ghetto

113
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:05,480
Speaker 1: had taken his own life.

114
00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,680
Speaker 2: La Traghe del Racghero is seen by many as a

115
00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:13,719
Speaker 2: cautionary tale of toxic machismo, The lesson jealousy and a

116
00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,600
Speaker 2: hothead will cost a man what he loves most.

117
00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,200
Speaker 1: And it means that much more coming from Vicente Fernandez, who,

118
00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,520
Speaker 1: for years that appeared on the big screen, sometimes portraying

119
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,280
Speaker 1: the bengeful gunslinger and sometimes the humble everyman in over

120
00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:26,720
Speaker 1: his head.

121
00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,719
Speaker 2: The album is one of Fernandez's highest performers, reaching number

122
00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,720
Speaker 2: one in the US Regional Mexican Albums Chart, the top

123
00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,919
Speaker 2: ten of the US Latin Album Chart, and breaking into

124
00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:38,520
Speaker 2: the Billboard two hundred overall.

125
00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,080
Speaker 1: Remember how Cente can hold the mic down low and

126
00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,320
Speaker 1: still fill a stadium with his voice. His voice carried

127
00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,200
Speaker 1: in more ways than one, and with that kind of reach,

128
00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:49,960
Speaker 1: the message matters.

129
00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,960
Speaker 2: Remember that later, kids. But La trehed de Bracquherto wasn't

130
00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:59,800
Speaker 2: Fernandez's only release that year. A fortieth anniversary means one thing.

131
00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:06,480
Speaker 1: Commemorative box set. The same year as La Trahiria, Sony

132
00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,880
Speaker 1: released a three disc box set titled The Living Legend,

133
00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,600
Speaker 1: with a track list hand selected by Chato himself.

134
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,160
Speaker 2: The discs were organized not by Era but by Seam

135
00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:24,679
Speaker 2: Mexiko at Tusalu and Muerees Devinas. It's giving patriotism, drinking

136
00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,440
Speaker 2: songs and romantic balod.

137
00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:31,680
Speaker 1: Basically the Holy Trinity of visen I was speaking. And

138
00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,520
Speaker 1: of course, at sixty six, Vicente could have very.

139
00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,240
Speaker 2: Well bast in his glory aka the sit back and

140
00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,320
Speaker 2: get your praise era of stardom.

141
00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,240
Speaker 1: But instead, his return from hiatus was a return to

142
00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,880
Speaker 1: his old pace, and in two thousand and seven, at

143
00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:50,200
Speaker 1: sixty six years old, with seventy eight albums under his belts,

144
00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:56,000
Speaker 1: Fernandez dropped what many considered his very best badassire.

145
00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,960
Speaker 2: Another one like, I mean, sixty.

146
00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,880
Speaker 1: Six is not old. I'm like twenty two years from

147
00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,520
Speaker 1: sixty six. I'm not going to be done.

148
00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,720
Speaker 2: And with this album, Tenta said, allow me to reintroduce myself.

149
00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,600
Speaker 1: Fernand has released music videos for all twelve tracks on

150
00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,080
Speaker 1: the album. Y'all, it is giving Beyonce like the visual

151
00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:18,800
Speaker 1: album Okay, I mean he is literally giving Beyonce here.

152
00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,520
Speaker 1: And you know, if you're a Beyonce fan, the album

153
00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:22,920
Speaker 1: doesn't exist without the visuals.

154
00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:23,560
Speaker 2: You sent that.

155
00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,080
Speaker 1: Fernandas was on board and listen, they were not Beyonce level.

156
00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,200
Speaker 1: They were pretty simple, mostly centered on besent this singing

157
00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,480
Speaker 1: in various locations on his rant. But we'll take it.

158
00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,600
Speaker 2: If you're really here for visuals, you want the title

159
00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,680
Speaker 2: sequence for the hit telenovela Fuego in Las Angre, because

160
00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,120
Speaker 2: the theme song was the title track for Fernandas's latest

161
00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:44,080
Speaker 2: Batasi Emprey.

162
00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,280
Speaker 1: This is the trailer that makes me, now at forty four,

163
00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:53,160
Speaker 1: want to completely restart my career and become a te

164
00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:58,160
Speaker 1: lenovela at race. That's how inspiring the visuals hit like,

165
00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,520
Speaker 1: they hit so hard. I want to be the girl

166
00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:01,480
Speaker 1: in the.

167
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,959
Speaker 2: Red that they do. But I do want to tell

168
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,240
Speaker 2: you this, though, I don't know how the elf you

169
00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:12,000
Speaker 2: kept up with all of those characters. There was seven

170
00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,320
Speaker 2: hundred and eighty nine thousand people in this thing, like

171
00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,920
Speaker 2: the credits just I don't think I saw the same person.

172
00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,520
Speaker 1: All I'm saying is that that is the exact reason

173
00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,040
Speaker 1: why I have hope I can make it, because it's

174
00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,520
Speaker 1: not this. I can make it because if they're seven

175
00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,000
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty six, seven eighty seven is not going

176
00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,920
Speaker 1: to put the novella overboard on budget or space. You're right,

177
00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:36,880
Speaker 1: I can be seven eighty seven.

178
00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:38,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

179
00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,200
Speaker 1: And by the way, the title track was just one

180
00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,880
Speaker 1: of three hit singles from the album, which would go

181
00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:48,000
Speaker 1: on to sale to platinum certification in quite the unusual

182
00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:49,200
Speaker 1: fashion for the time.

183
00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,920
Speaker 2: Despite coming out in the heyday of music pirating badasimp

184
00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:59,680
Speaker 2: it did Gangbusters. People even bought the album on their phones, Birch, which,

185
00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:01,560
Speaker 2: what the fuck? How do you buy that in two

186
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,880
Speaker 2: thousand and seven on your phone?

187
00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:05,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I'm gonna have to go to

188
00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,920
Speaker 1: you for like a past life regression, because I don't

189
00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,520
Speaker 1: know that I remember what trying to buy an album

190
00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,240
Speaker 1: over like the T Mobile Sidekick felt like.

191
00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,720
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm thinking the Nokia flip phone. But the

192
00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,080
Speaker 2: point is Kente was having a renaissance.

193
00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,480
Speaker 1: And the key was fellow Ranchita musician and songwriter Joan Sebastian.

194
00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,400
Speaker 1: While for Nan This's albums usually featured a mix of

195
00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:34,320
Speaker 1: songwriters and standards, Barrasiempre was his first time working with

196
00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:38,000
Speaker 1: just one songsmith. From start to finish.

197
00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,760
Speaker 2: This old dog learned new tricks and got rewarded with

198
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:46,679
Speaker 2: the Latin Grammys, bamoslof Nuestro, Ohia Awards, and Billboard Awards.

199
00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:48,720
Speaker 1: In the years that followed, and between twenty ten and

200
00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,439
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, he released not one, not two, not three,

201
00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:54,920
Speaker 1: but four more albums.

202
00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,520
Speaker 2: But even though his recording pace was up there with

203
00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,240
Speaker 2: his younger years. His promotional too, were getting shorter and

204
00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:02,520
Speaker 2: shorter every year.

205
00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,240
Speaker 1: The prospect of retirement was starting to look real for Fernandez,

206
00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,320
Speaker 1: and so in twenty twelve, at the age of seventy two,

207
00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,480
Speaker 1: he announced his final tour and international runner shows throughout

208
00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:14,880
Speaker 1: the Americas and Spain.

209
00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,720
Speaker 2: At the press conference announcing the tour, Fernandez explained that

210
00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,720
Speaker 2: it was important for him to retire with dignity. Quote

211
00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,880
Speaker 2: it's out of love and respect for the audience and myself,

212
00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,040
Speaker 2: he explained, saying that it takes courage to leave the

213
00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,280
Speaker 2: stage before you become the subject of pity.

214
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,640
Speaker 1: After the tour, Genta would live out his days on

215
00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,360
Speaker 1: a rancho, spending time with his children and grandchildren and

216
00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,679
Speaker 1: probably great grandchildren, occasionally appearing on TV and recording at

217
00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:41,200
Speaker 1: his leisure.

218
00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,200
Speaker 2: But throughout the tour his old age caught up with him,

219
00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,840
Speaker 2: and Chado ended up needing medical attention twice, first to

220
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:51,200
Speaker 2: remove a tumor from his liver.

221
00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,160
Speaker 1: The tour DIDs were postponed, but Gene came back swinging

222
00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,240
Speaker 1: and not only resumed the tour, but released a new

223
00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:58,400
Speaker 1: album to go along with it.

224
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,880
Speaker 2: Yo, These give you a heathos man, They will not

225
00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,880
Speaker 2: give up the car keys, much less the microphone.

226
00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,720
Speaker 1: Because music is the best medicine and if you want proof,

227
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,520
Speaker 1: the second time, Chenthe was sidelined by illness, this time

228
00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,440
Speaker 1: pulmonary thrombosis. If you wanted to know, he did it again,

229
00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:21,840
Speaker 1: releasing a tango album, another first for the septagenarian mariachi singer.

230
00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:27,319
Speaker 2: This Fair Wildtour ended up lasting about four years, finally

231
00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,800
Speaker 2: bowing in twenty sixteen after the media had called it

232
00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:35,600
Speaker 2: the never ending farewell Tour, longer than Shares herself.

233
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:41,920
Speaker 1: After four years of build up, El Chadro Dewentiitan played

234
00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:47,520
Speaker 1: his final show, and he did it entirely free of charge.

235
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:52,600
Speaker 2: The eighty thousand seat Asteca Stadium was packed and Trent

236
00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,720
Speaker 2: to sing sixty songs over four hours.

237
00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:01,360
Speaker 1: Take that Taylor, he told the crowd, as he had

238
00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,800
Speaker 1: over one hundreds of shows over his career, as long

239
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,120
Speaker 1: as you keep applotting, I won't stop singing.

240
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,080
Speaker 2: He pulled out all his greatest hits the whole night.

241
00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,800
Speaker 1: Kupita was there backstage supporting her husband. Alejandro came on

242
00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:18,240
Speaker 1: stage to perform alongside his father and fifty instrumentalists, accompanied

243
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,640
Speaker 1: and Chato on stage. Finally, In the wee hours of

244
00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,080
Speaker 1: April seventeenth, Chente bowed out of touring for good.

245
00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,520
Speaker 2: Ilkabaio Viaco was headed back to the ranch till about

246
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,640
Speaker 2: his days, spending time with his colts. But it was

247
00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,200
Speaker 2: there at El Rancho Tres Portrios that his misdeeds would

248
00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:46,280
Speaker 2: catch up with him.

249
00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,280
Speaker 1: It's safe to say that visen dere Fernandez Bass and

250
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,800
Speaker 1: his Sunset Years, the live album from his farewell concert

251
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:57,240
Speaker 1: Unasteca and Elasteca, won the Grammy for Best Regional Mexican

252
00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,199
Speaker 1: Music Album. In twenty seventeen.

253
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,120
Speaker 2: Retirement, he slowed down his recording pace and recorded two

254
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,800
Speaker 2: albums over four years, Mas Romantico, ke Nunka and a Misochnas.

255
00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,280
Speaker 1: All I can think about right now is the fact

256
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:14,520
Speaker 1: that we still don't have a Rihanna album. Like here,

257
00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,280
Speaker 1: we have a man in his seventies pumping out album

258
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:21,280
Speaker 1: after album, song after song, and like Rihanna, where is

259
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:21,720
Speaker 1: the album?

260
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,800
Speaker 2: Come on, give us pondo replay now.

261
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,440
Speaker 1: Just like Thesanda had dreamed, he spent time with his

262
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,360
Speaker 1: kids and eleven grandkids on a Rancho tres Portrios.

263
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:36,040
Speaker 2: And as we know, the ranch is where shit goes.

264
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:41,440
Speaker 1: Down and down it went. In twenty eighteen, photos began

265
00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:47,480
Speaker 1: circulating of present Daviy Sante Fernandez kissing a significantly younger

266
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,200
Speaker 1: woman on the lips.

267
00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,840
Speaker 2: Tenth de Fans rushed to his defense and claimed this

268
00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,160
Speaker 2: was the singer's granddaughter. After all, the singers kind of

269
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,080
Speaker 2: always kissed his kids and grandkids on the lips. Some

270
00:14:59,120 --> 00:14:59,920
Speaker 2: families do that.

271
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:00,960
Speaker 1: I do that.

272
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:03,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a very Latin thing.

273
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,720
Speaker 1: No, I mean I have, But like I mean, my

274
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,400
Speaker 1: baby's my baby's three is different. I mean maybe if

275
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,560
Speaker 1: he was like thirteen, he'd be like, what are you doing.

276
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:13,560
Speaker 2: It's a cultural thing.

277
00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,840
Speaker 1: It's a cultural thing anyways. But the woman in the

278
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:20,440
Speaker 1: picture was never proven to be his granddaughter, and the Fans'

279
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,120
Speaker 1: defense didn't count for much because the pictures brought Fernanda's

280
00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:28,040
Speaker 1: past infidelities right back up to the surface. Now, as

281
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,800
Speaker 1: we know, Fernandas had a torrid affair with Patrisa Rivera

282
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,720
Speaker 1: for nearly a decade. Goukita took the lemons and made lemonade,

283
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,480
Speaker 1: but that didn't stop Chinha from making things sour.

284
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,600
Speaker 2: In the sit down with journalist Maria Patris in twenty nineteen,

285
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:48,080
Speaker 2: Fernanda said, I was never a saint, but they never

286
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,280
Speaker 2: saw me. There's nothing more important than being discreet. Also

287
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:54,880
Speaker 2: yuck like yuck.

288
00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:59,440
Speaker 1: I mean, nothing has ever given me the ick more

289
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:05,000
Speaker 1: than that sentime. Okay, anyway, sounds like Chente wasn't reading

290
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:09,440
Speaker 1: the tabloids because s hy I. They had reported on

291
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:15,040
Speaker 1: his affairs with performers such as Manuela Torres and Angelica

292
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,239
Speaker 1: Maria along with many others.

293
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,120
Speaker 2: Just like with Patriza Rivera, Fernandez had met manuel A

294
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,440
Speaker 2: Torres on the set of the film El Albanil and

295
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,560
Speaker 2: the affair kicked off soon after.

296
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,360
Speaker 1: Now about that lemonade after Fernantha, this is passing, Oh

297
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:35,600
Speaker 1: keep that would admit that her husband had on a girl. No, no, no,

298
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,680
Speaker 1: but that she was happy too and never felt that

299
00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:41,400
Speaker 1: insecure about his affairs.

300
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,600
Speaker 2: Quote, he is my husband behind closed doors, outside the door,

301
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:47,120
Speaker 2: I don't know what he does.

302
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:51,280
Speaker 1: So she's hashtag unbothered all the time.

303
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,320
Speaker 2: You know what I'm going to tell you this. I

304
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,960
Speaker 2: think she's enjoying her lemonade, whatever that means. You know,

305
00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,240
Speaker 2: she is making her lemonade. He's making shit sours. She's

306
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:01,120
Speaker 2: just adding more sugar.

307
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,800
Speaker 1: She's just you know, okay, but how okay, right? But

308
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,520
Speaker 1: this just reinforces that like horrific and stereotype that I

309
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,840
Speaker 1: hate that like Latino men get to be all out

310
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:18,320
Speaker 1: there in these streets, having kids, having affairs, philandering while

311
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,320
Speaker 1: your wife is just at home bearing at all. Or

312
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,199
Speaker 1: hold on okay, or let me hold on, let me

313
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,040
Speaker 1: reset my brain, let me reset my brain. Or is

314
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:34,240
Speaker 1: this an open relationship? Before we had the language to

315
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:40,360
Speaker 1: use terms like an open marriage, because what happens in

316
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,919
Speaker 1: someone's marriage is not my business to judge. If you

317
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,400
Speaker 1: have straighted with combo saying listen, girl, I love you,

318
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,160
Speaker 1: you are my ride or die, you are my wife,

319
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:48,760
Speaker 1: and I'm only going to have one wife. But like

320
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do me outside, and she says, yes, I

321
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,399
Speaker 1: mean that is consensual infidelity. Is that what we call it?

322
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,280
Speaker 1: I don't what do you call that? I think it's

323
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:07,040
Speaker 1: called like consensual non monogamy. That's better, right, yes, yes, yes,

324
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:09,280
Speaker 1: consensual non monogamy.

325
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:09,640
Speaker 2: That's right.

326
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:10,800
Speaker 1: It's an open relationship.

327
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the gays do that all the time. I'm

328
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,440
Speaker 2: that's normal. That's how I got myself into this shit

329
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:17,160
Speaker 2: that I was in.

330
00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,879
Speaker 1: So does it work, Joseph? Is consensual non monogamy sustainable.

331
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,400
Speaker 2: You know what if I was, if I was like touring,

332
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,879
Speaker 2: if I was, yeah, because you just go have fun

333
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,960
Speaker 2: and do your thing. But like where you're with somewhere

334
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,359
Speaker 2: and you get to start a relationship with them, you know,

335
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,520
Speaker 2: and like you started a relationship shit where you eat? Yeah,

336
00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:40,240
Speaker 2: like that like hosing area cold slame.

337
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,640
Speaker 1: Got it, got it? Got it? Okay, okay, okay, fine. Yeah,

338
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:51,000
Speaker 1: So my more enlightened, woke, non restrictive framework of relationships,

339
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:52,920
Speaker 1: which I'm trying to get there, trying to get there,

340
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:53,480
Speaker 1: working hard.

341
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,920
Speaker 2: So not everything is a social norm when you think.

342
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,760
Speaker 1: About it, Yes, that is correct, and not everything is not.

343
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,639
Speaker 1: Everyone's relationship should be dictated by what my idea of

344
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,840
Speaker 1: a relationship is. So I'm okay with that. I think

345
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,719
Speaker 1: I start to have issues around his idea of what

346
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,960
Speaker 1: discretion is because you can go be messy outside these

347
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,960
Speaker 1: gates of Rancho, but you bring your messiness home, I'm

348
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,480
Speaker 1: gonna kill you. I mean, I also think, listen, if

349
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,120
Speaker 1: we're talking about affairs hose in different area codes, that's

350
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,320
Speaker 1: one thing. But I think it started to get really messy, right.

351
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,760
Speaker 1: I mean that photo of Fernandez kissing a much younger

352
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:30,120
Speaker 1: woman was only.

353
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:34,679
Speaker 2: The start, because Fernandez took many photos with fans, and

354
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:39,199
Speaker 2: especially female fans. Following the kiss, a photo surfaced with

355
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 2: Fernandez posing with his arm around a fan of his

356
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,080
Speaker 2: and his hand was resting on her chee cheek.

357
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 1: Fernandez quickly explained, I placed my hand first on her

358
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,760
Speaker 1: stomach and thought she might feel quote unquote offended. Then

359
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 1: I moved my hand up and that's when they took

360
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,560
Speaker 1: the photo. I do offer a heartfelt apology, not only

361
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,399
Speaker 1: to her the fan, but to all my audience, to

362
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 1: my wife, my children, my grandchildren, my great grandchildren.

363
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,120
Speaker 2: But she wasn't getting away with it that easy. More

364
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 2: photos quickly followed with other female fans, So so much

365
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 2: for discretion.

366
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 1: Then came the bombshell. Encouraged by the women speaking out

367
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:23,640
Speaker 1: about Fernandez's inappropriate behavior, a singer named Lupita Castro came

368
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,880
Speaker 1: forward with an accusation of sexual assault, claiming that Fernandez

369
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,720
Speaker 1: had her raster on more than one occasion forty years

370
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,680
Speaker 1: prior after meeting on the set of Sian bren Lomingo,

371
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,800
Speaker 1: before assaulting her two years later when she was seventeen.

372
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,960
Speaker 2: After and during threats of violence, Gastro decided not to

373
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,919
Speaker 2: take Fernandez to court. She expressed that she would welcome

374
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,920
Speaker 2: an apology, and an apology.

375
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 1: Never came, and if all of that was not enough,

376
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,800
Speaker 1: there's an ugly cherry atop this shit Sunday. In a

377
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,399
Speaker 1: May twenty nineteen interview, the singer revealed that when he

378
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 1: was battling cancer mid tour, he refused to undergo a

379
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:00,879
Speaker 1: lie liver transplant.

380
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,479
Speaker 2: The reason he couldn't bear the thought of sleeping with

381
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 2: his wife with another man's organ inside of him. I

382
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 2: wouldn't even know if the donor was homosexual or a

383
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 2: drug addict.

384
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,719
Speaker 1: So for those that don't know and are just as

385
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:22,160
Speaker 1: shook as as we are, homophobia runs a deep when

386
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,920
Speaker 1: it comes to blood and organ donation.

387
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,800
Speaker 2: The idea of being gay people shouldn't be able to

388
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 2: donate blood because AIDS, because.

389
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,920
Speaker 1: You know, it's not like we have like medical test

390
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 1: and experts that can actually catch for that or anything like.

391
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 2: It's not twenty twenty four like exactly. And whoever heard

392
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,199
Speaker 2: of straight people getting AIDS? Oh?

393
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 1: Yes, straights don't get AIDS.

394
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:45,919
Speaker 2: What do you talk?

395
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 1: They're immune to AIDS? You didn't know that they have

396
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 1: superior immune systems. They're not plagued by AIDS or any

397
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 1: STDs either or unwanted pregnancies.

398
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:56,399
Speaker 2: There you go.

399
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 1: I mean, by the way, you guys, the fact that

400
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 1: we even have to have this conversation is wild. But

401
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 1: you know, everybody, regardless of their sexual orientation, religion, gender,

402
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 1: political beliefs, can get everything. And the firstborn who sent

403
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 1: a junior, was quick to insist that his father was

404
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: not a homophobe. What said was said word. Meanwhile, the

405
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: journalists who conducted the interview with the Senta senior simply

406
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 1: knews that at eighty years old, Chada was a man

407
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 1: of a different generation. I quote. He sent the lived

408
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 1: through a different era than we did. There wasn't the

409
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,880
Speaker 1: openness to be friendly with the gay community. He's very

410
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,400
Speaker 1: old fashioned. He quickly clarified that this wasn't a defense

411
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:41,880
Speaker 1: but a simple explanation.

412
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 2: I okay, you know, as a gay man, I'll say this,

413
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,199
Speaker 2: I do understand what he's saying. It's just fear, you know,

414
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 2: like there's no other way. It's just something that's a

415
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 2: known and it's also challenging people to be open whatever

416
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 2: that means. Like, you know, but at the same time,

417
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 2: you had quan.

418
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 1: I just think it's a lot. I mean, it's so

419
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 1: hard because you're right, like, we cannot judge the past

420
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 1: by the rules of today because people didn't have the

421
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,120
Speaker 1: same I'm gonna call it education, but what I really

422
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: mean is conversation and community. Right, I'm going to call

423
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 1: it education, but it's not. It's people did not have

424
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: the same conversations and community that we have today. People

425
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: were not as willing to be open because they couldn't, right,

426
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 1: So it's a lot of ignorance, it's a lot of misinformation.

427
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 1: And I think that as long as you own your

428
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 1: mistakes and the shit that you said in the past,

429
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: as long as you own it and act differently. Because

430
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 1: talk is talk, actions are actions. I can respect what

431
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: was said without forgiving what was said.

432
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,199
Speaker 2: Right, because people do change. They do, of course, you know,

433
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 2: I think that he could have a different point of

434
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 2: view now.

435
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 1: But it's just it's complicated. And that's why talking about

436
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 1: past icons becomes complicated for us because it's the same

437
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 1: thing I said earlier, like can you separate the music

438
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: from the musician?

439
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 2: I wonder what if Juan Gabriel and you said they

440
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 2: were ever together? Oh, just like if you have that thought.

441
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 1: Right, they just at a dinner, like were they talking?

442
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the celebs hang out like they were obviously

443
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 2: if I can at the award shows together, you're right,

444
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 2: You're right. I wonder, like, I just wonder if he

445
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 2: would say that, like to his face, say it to

446
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 2: my face. Get that filk little number and wrap it

447
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 2: around his neck.

448
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 1: Now, look and icon as big as Vicente Fernandez will

449
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: always have legions of adoring fans, no matter what should

450
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: he said in the past, and all those Mexicans out

451
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 1: in the rural outskirts to recognize where he comes from.

452
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: We should remember that he also recognized them too, by

453
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: championing them and putting up concerts for free for them.

454
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 2: But it makes it all more sour when that same

455
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 2: folk hero doesn't recognize where you come from, and when

456
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 2: the people who identify with him can't accept that he

457
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 2: might not have been the hero that they think he was.

458
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: Vicenta Fernandez was always an anomaly, the silver screen image

459
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: of the charro, the Macho Mariaci singer, that relic of

460
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 1: Mexican cinema's golden age. It likely would have faded after

461
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 1: the death of Fernandez's idol Fetherin Funte.

462
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 2: Instead, Vicenta Fernandez carried the charro image into the later

463
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 2: half of the twentieth century and into the new millennium,

464
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 2: and if you're willing to look, the cracks that image

465
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 2: were showing more and more.

466
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: In the very last year of his life, those crafts

467
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 1: became unignorable, at least until the singer passed away in

468
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: December of twenty twenty one. On August sixth, twenty twenty one,

469
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: Vicenta Fernandez was laid low by a slip and fall

470
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: accident at it Ran. He injured his spine and was

471
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: placed on a ventilator.

472
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 2: In the following months, the hits kept oncoming. He was

473
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 2: diagnosed with gian bar syndrome shortly after his spine surgery.

474
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 2: Then in November he was brought to the hospital where

475
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 2: he contracted.

476
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: Pneumonia, and from there El Chato de Guentitan took a

477
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: turn for the worse. On December twelfth, Vicente Fernandez died

478
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: surrounded by his family at the age of eighty one.

479
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 2: Fernandez didn't want a somber funeral, He wanted a celebration,

480
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 2: so on the same day as his death, his body

481
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 2: was taken to a fifteen thousand seat arena in Gjuanajara,

482
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 2: where six thousand fans were waiting there for him.

483
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: On a stage adorned with a crucifix and the image

484
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: of La Vindallalupe Fernandez is Mariachi ban La Mariachi Especa

485
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: played and sang the songs for hours beside his coffin.

486
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: A wreath of white flowers and a late singer's favorite

487
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: white chattohat sat atop the casket.

488
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 2: Fernandez's son stood guard over their father and shifts along

489
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 2: with singers like Pepperi Lard, who broke down in tears

490
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 2: with his wife and kids. Then Donia Coquita approached the coffin.

491
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: Despite all the celebration around the stage, Fernandez's widow was

492
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,959
Speaker 1: in her own world, her eyes fixed to the coffin.

493
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: Her daughter in law, by way of Alejandro, stayed by

494
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: her side constantly. From a place beside her husband, Kuquita

495
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: relayed instructions to family members, making it clear that the

496
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 1: service had been planned for some time.

497
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 2: Finally, Alejandro, the youngest of the Portrios and the clear

498
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 2: air of the Fernandez dynasty, saying an emotional rendition of

499
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 2: Volver Volver, the song that launched his career.

500
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 1: Donia Coquita thanked the attendees and the medical workers who

501
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: fought to save her husband in a private ceremony. The

502
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 1: following night, Fernandez was buried in the garden of Errancho

503
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: Tres Potrios.

504
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 2: World leaders and musicians paid respects in statements and tributes,

505
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 2: and Netflix and tele Visa on Vicion raced to put

506
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 2: out a biopic first.

507
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: The Fernandez family had already granted Netflix the rights to

508
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: put out a series telling the Vicente Fernandez story, El Rey,

509
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: starring hai Me Camille. Televisa's competing series El Ulti More

510
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: ended up being broadcast along with Netflix's series after months

511
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 1: of litigation.

512
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, the fight over Vicente Fernanz's complicated legacy went quiet.

513
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: Across Mexico and for Mexicans worldwide. Cente remains an icon,

514
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: a role model for every little boy who dons a

515
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: chattle suit and learns to sing Volvervolvere.

516
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 2: Miguerio Vehco still gets tears going for Mexicans who have

517
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: lost a patriarch, but with a couple of years between

518
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 2: now on the senior's death, it's just as important to

519
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: remember the cracks in the image of El.

520
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: Chad Kier in La permanent tributes to the late singer

521
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: have been met with some resistance. When a street in

522
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: Boyle Heights was renamed in his honor in twenty twenty two,

523
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: many pointed out Fernandez's indiscretions and question whether it was

524
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: appropriate to keep holding him up as a role model.

525
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 2: The following year, the statue created by a Wailahatan artist

526
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 2: went up in Walnot Park, prompting a number of articles

527
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 2: reminding readers of Fernandez's misdeeds.

528
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: Nonetheless, the street renaming in Boyle Heights went ahead with

529
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: the blessing of Donia Kuquita herself. The statue unveiling was

530
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: accompanied by a lively Mariacci contest, and rural communities still

531
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: laud and shadow Dejentitan for his talents and for his

532
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: contributions to their communities. Fernandez is hardly the only icon

533
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: of popular music with a massive following and a checkered past.

534
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: So the question is how do you reconcile when someone

535
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: imperfect is beloved. When we were kids, we would always

536
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: hear our parents designate certain people as good or bad.

537
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: But obviously we know that people aren't just black or white,

538
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: good or bad.

539
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 2: When someone has left as big of an impact as Fernandez,

540
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 2: the cracks in the figure don't necessarily need to bring

541
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 2: the whole thing crumbling down.

542
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: It's completely possible to draw inspo from a figure like

543
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: Fernandez without holding him up on kind of pedestal. There

544
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: is a difference between a role model and an example.

545
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: A role model is someone to be copied in thought,

546
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: in action, in practice.

547
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 2: But an example is someone you can learn from, not

548
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: just from their successes and their hero moments, but from

549
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 2: their feelings too. They can show you how not to

550
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: be that.

551
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: Now, going back to that statue of we Senta Fernandez

552
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: and Walnut Park, it stands at nearly ten feet tall

553
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: and weighs four metric tons. It makes the singer larger

554
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: than life, superhuman almost.

555
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 2: And there are things about him that were superhuman, his vocals,

556
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 2: his charisma, and we have those in his music, his videos,

557
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 2: his live shows, even his movies. But we can't forget

558
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 2: that Vicente Fernandez the man was just that.

559
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: And remembering our icons for who they actually were doesn't

560
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: make our icons weaker. It actually helps the people who

561
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: follow their example just do better. It makes their legacy

562
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: stronger because their legacy becomes our legacy, and it inspires

563
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: conversations like the one we've had through this entire episode.

564
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 2: Right Joseph Period.

565
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: On the next Becoming an Icon, Fanya Record's secret weapon

566
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: El Malo will go on. Becoming an Icon is presented

567
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: by Sonoo and Iheart's Michael Duda podcast Network. Listen to

568
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: Becoming an Icon on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or

569
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast