WEBVTT - How Have Asian-Americans Fared Without Affirmative Action? (Part 2)

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<v Speaker 1>Keep on riding, would have says. We continue to broadcast

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<v Speaker 1>the balance and to defend the discourse from the hip

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<v Speaker 1>hop weekly studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I'm your host,

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<v Speaker 1>Ramsy's job. He is Ramsy's job. I am q Ward.

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<v Speaker 1>You are tuned into Civic Sigpher, Yes you are, and

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<v Speaker 1>we are in a good space this week, again off

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<v Speaker 1>of the high of being outside in our nation's capital

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<v Speaker 1>on the other side of the country, Washington, d C.

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<v Speaker 1>For the Congressional Black Caucus, we brought back some energy,

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<v Speaker 1>some opportunities, and some optimism that you know, hopefully you

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<v Speaker 1>will hear in our voices today. It's not often that

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<v Speaker 1>we get charged up, but we're definitely charged up, and

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<v Speaker 1>we're asking to stick around because we are going to

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<v Speaker 1>be talking about how our Asian American brothers and sisters

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<v Speaker 1>have fared without affirmative action. And I think the results

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<v Speaker 1>they're definitely mixed results, but they're definitely interesting, especially considering

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<v Speaker 1>that that group was one of the groups really fighting

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<v Speaker 1>for firm inaction. So we're going to see how it looks.

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<v Speaker 1>But before we get there, it's time to discuss Baba

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<v Speaker 1>All right, how have Asian Americans fared without affirmative action? Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>before we get into this, first thing I want to

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<v Speaker 1>say is not all Asian Americans have been fans of

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<v Speaker 1>affirmative action. Okay, many of them saw this coming, Many

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<v Speaker 1>of them understood the thrust of affirmative action. And this

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<v Speaker 1>is not something that I want for those people to

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<v Speaker 1>feel is pointed in their direction, nor is it pointed

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<v Speaker 1>in the direction of those Asian American individuals who legitimately

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<v Speaker 1>felt that affirmative action worked against them. It is okay,

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<v Speaker 1>to be wrong. It is not okay to stay wrong,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's okay to be wrong. And on this show,

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<v Speaker 1>Q and I both have firm continually that no one

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<v Speaker 1>is simply the worst thing that they've done in their life. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>people should have a road back from their worst moments.

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<v Speaker 1>I certainly would appreciate that if I was in my

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<v Speaker 1>worst moment. So we do our best to extend that

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<v Speaker 1>as often as we can.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's it's important to help provide that road back

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<v Speaker 2>because the alternative is people deciding, well, I can't go

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<v Speaker 2>back over there, so I may as well double triple

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<v Speaker 2>quadruple down where I.

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<v Speaker 1>Am right on their wrongness, on their wrongness. Yes, but

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<v Speaker 1>what we have now, and I want to shout out

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<v Speaker 1>the Emancipator it's for those familiar with the Boston Globe.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a it's a newspaper obviously in Boston, Massachusetts. They

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<v Speaker 1>have a division or a separate, you know paper under

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<v Speaker 1>their you know, corporate umbrella called the Emancipator. And uh,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a source for a lot of our content.

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<v Speaker 1>We use the Root, we use Atlanta Black Star, we

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<v Speaker 1>use you know, a lot of the Chicago Defender, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>and many others around the country. The Arizona Informant comes

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<v Speaker 1>to mind. But the Emancipator originally brought this to our attention,

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<v Speaker 1>and the way they did that caused us to really think, Okay, so,

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<v Speaker 1>now that affirmative action has been repealed, is this what

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<v Speaker 1>people wanted? Now? We're going to do our best to

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<v Speaker 1>tell both sides of the story. We're journalists and we

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<v Speaker 1>have to do that. But I want you to listen

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<v Speaker 1>to some key things here, because for folks who really

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<v Speaker 1>thought affirmative action was keeping Asian Americans from slots in

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<v Speaker 1>schools that they well deserved, I think that this introduces

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<v Speaker 1>some new elements for you to consider if that's what

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<v Speaker 1>you thought was happening. First, I'm going to share from

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<v Speaker 1>the NBC News and then we'll get to what the

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<v Speaker 1>Emancer paper has shared with us. All right, this from

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<v Speaker 1>NBC News. In the first college admissions process since the

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<v Speaker 1>Supreme Court struck down affirmative action last year, Asian American

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<v Speaker 1>enrollment at the most prestigious US schools paints a mixed

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<v Speaker 1>uneven picture. Some Ivy League schools, including Colombia and Brown Universities,

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<v Speaker 1>showed an increase in Asian Americans for the class of

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty eight, which is good. That is good. While

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<v Speaker 1>others like Yale and Princeton, oh, seem a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>more prestigious even than you know, Brown and Colombia, Others

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<v Speaker 1>like Yale and Princeton showed a decrease. About that. Harvard,

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<v Speaker 1>the most selective of the group, didn't see a change

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<v Speaker 1>at all, according to enrollment numbers released on Wednesday by

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<v Speaker 1>the school. So if we just taket Harvard by itself

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<v Speaker 1>with no change, did affirmative action ultimately help Asian American students? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>the answer, if you're looking at indeed the most prestigious institutions,

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<v Speaker 1>is meh okay. But this is only part of what

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about here. Experts say that it may take

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<v Speaker 1>years to see the definitive impact of the decision, which

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<v Speaker 1>restricted the consideration of race and college admissions but didn't

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<v Speaker 1>have the effect many who opposed the policy had expected.

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<v Speaker 1>They said, now I want to read this first part again.

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<v Speaker 1>Experts say that it may take years to see the

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<v Speaker 1>definitive impact of the decision. I think that's true. I

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<v Speaker 1>think that a lot of times we talk about the

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<v Speaker 1>scale and the timeline of a country, it takes a

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<v Speaker 1>long time to indeed know what the effects of policy

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<v Speaker 1>change will be. Right, it'd be nice if everything we

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<v Speaker 1>can we would see everything immediately in the immediate impact

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<v Speaker 1>of it, but sometimes it takes a while. But one

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<v Speaker 1>thing that's irrefutable is that affirmative action did indeed over time,

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<v Speaker 1>because we did have time with affirmative action when it

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<v Speaker 1>was the law of the land. It did bolster African

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<v Speaker 1>American enrollment at these prestigious institutions, and if I'm not mistaken,

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<v Speaker 1>all institutions that were under serving minority communities. And it

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<v Speaker 1>also benefited women. Women were the biggest benefitters, white white

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<v Speaker 1>women especially, but they were the ones beneficiaries is the

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<v Speaker 1>word I'm looking for of affirmative action. So this is

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<v Speaker 1>something that we know we did it, and then we learned, Wow,

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<v Speaker 1>these groups that have historically been subjected our benefiting. OK.

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<v Speaker 1>And then with the Supreme Court, many of the people

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<v Speaker 1>who voted on this were put in position because of

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump. So for those that either didn't vote or

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<v Speaker 1>voted for Donald Trump, this is kind of an extension

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<v Speaker 1>of your doing when you cast your ballot. It has

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<v Speaker 1>now been repealed and we're looking for the positives for

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<v Speaker 1>all of us Americans in affirmative action being repealed, and

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<v Speaker 1>so far we can't see any We don't see any

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<v Speaker 1>change with Asian Americans at Harvard, with Yale and Princeton,

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<v Speaker 1>enrollment dropped and enrollment increased at Colombia and Brown. Okay, So.

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<v Speaker 2>There's this masterful thing that has happened throughout the hist

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<v Speaker 2>story of our nation, in particular where misogyny, capitalism, racism,

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<v Speaker 2>and the patriarchy have combined to form oppressive vota ron.

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<v Speaker 2>And the reason that this has been able to sustain

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<v Speaker 2>as long as it has and continues to because you

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<v Speaker 2>speak about progress in the time that it takes. It's

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<v Speaker 2>not because that's the requirement. It does not have to

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<v Speaker 2>take a long time. There's just so much resistance to it.

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<v Speaker 2>We chip away with it or at it a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit at a time. It doesn't have to take a

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<v Speaker 2>long time for progress. Decisions could be made right now

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<v Speaker 2>and implement it right now, and implement it right now.

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<v Speaker 2>That would affect everyone, everyone, almost everyone in a positive

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<v Speaker 2>way right now. And when I say almost everyone, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't mean like seventy percent of people. I mean like

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<v Speaker 2>nine percent of people. However, that one percent are the

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<v Speaker 2>ones with the power and the influence and the money,

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<v Speaker 2>and they're also racist. It's important to keep saying that

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<v Speaker 2>part out loud, because almost everything that's wrong or in

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<v Speaker 2>almost every area that we as a collective nation fall short,

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<v Speaker 2>tied back to racism. The reason we don't have universal

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<v Speaker 2>health care, the reason why there is a requirement that

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<v Speaker 2>in an entire segment of our population go without everything

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<v Speaker 2>they need, not just health care, but food, money, resources,

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<v Speaker 2>et cetera. It's all based in racism.

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<v Speaker 3>The environment, yes, environment, the denial of climate change also

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<v Speaker 3>based in racism. Right, So this is not our opinion,

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<v Speaker 3>by the way, No, No, this is easily verifiable data to

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<v Speaker 3>support this argument.

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<v Speaker 2>This is not an hypothesis that I'm coming up with

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<v Speaker 2>in real time. This has been proven by scholars who

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<v Speaker 2>are not black, over and over again. Is even the

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<v Speaker 2>conversation about critical race theory, which we won't have right now,

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<v Speaker 2>was snatched from the area of academicia where it exists

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<v Speaker 2>and placed into the textbook of children in their minds.

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<v Speaker 2>It's never actually happened, but just based on racism and

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<v Speaker 2>not wanting to make people feel guilty for being racist.

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<v Speaker 2>This thing where imagine this cartoon that I'm drawing in

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<v Speaker 2>a comic book or on your television. Name the resource.

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<v Speaker 2>Make it milk and honey, make it gold, make it money,

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<v Speaker 2>make it, make it wheat, make it corn, make it

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<v Speaker 2>whatever you'd like. And there's a person in charge of

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<v Speaker 2>producing said resource, or farming said resource, or guarding said resource,

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<v Speaker 2>or making said resource available. And this person has an

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<v Speaker 2>unlimited amount of said resource. And then take you and

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<v Speaker 2>your neighbor and set you both at a table. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>in this picture, I want you to see that this

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<v Speaker 2>person has an unlimited supply of that resource. I'll use

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<v Speaker 2>clean water because it's an easy one to picture. And

0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:23.400
<v Speaker 2>that person takes a single glass of clean water and

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<v Speaker 2>places it in front of one of you. The important

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<v Speaker 2>part of this illustration is that you can see that

0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:34.480
<v Speaker 2>this person has unlimited clean water. It's not in some

0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:38.040
<v Speaker 2>storage facility somewhere where you don't actually see what's going on. No,

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<v Speaker 2>you see it. This person's actually sitting in front of it.

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<v Speaker 2>There's three chairs in this picture. He's sitting in front

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<v Speaker 2>of an unlimited amount of clean water, and you and

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<v Speaker 2>your neighbor are sitting at the same table with him.

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<v Speaker 2>He places a single glass on the table. One of

0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:59.640
<v Speaker 2>you grabs it because you're thirsty. He then tells the

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<v Speaker 2>other one, the reason you don't have clean water is

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<v Speaker 2>because of your neighbor.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a masterful analogy.

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<v Speaker 2>And then you not blinded, you can see it. You

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<v Speaker 2>then hate your neighbor for drinking that glass of water,

0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:19.040
<v Speaker 2>and he has now created your enemy and made sure

0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:23.640
<v Speaker 2>that it was not him. And that is plainly how

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<v Speaker 2>this system of hate rhetoric and othering and racism. And

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<v Speaker 2>I could go on with all of the words that

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<v Speaker 2>fit this argument, but this is how they sustain and

0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:39.680
<v Speaker 2>continue to thrive. Make enemies of each other, and those

0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.040
<v Speaker 2>that exploit us get to continue to do so and

0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:44.520
<v Speaker 2>laugh at us for fighting each other. So in these

0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:49.200
<v Speaker 2>cases where those who are oppressed fight each other at

0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:53.040
<v Speaker 2>the behest of the oppressor, the oppressor doesn't then say

0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:57.960
<v Speaker 2>good job to the one that helped right Asian American

0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:02.800
<v Speaker 2>people were in with the legal precedent that got rid

0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:09.120
<v Speaker 2>of affirmative action. The racist white person who headed those

0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:13.560
<v Speaker 2>efforts did not reach out to remember the Asian American

0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:17.120
<v Speaker 2>community because they helped him be a white supremacist, because

0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:21.600
<v Speaker 2>you're also not white. Unfortunately, so for those of us

0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:26.000
<v Speaker 2>who continue to march, organize, vote, legislate, and speak out

0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:30.560
<v Speaker 2>against our own best interest. When the one that you

0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:36.040
<v Speaker 2>help successfully oppress you gets what he wants, he is

0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:39.480
<v Speaker 2>not going to remember to make room for you. He's

0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:43.960
<v Speaker 2>going to laugh at you. And unfortunately some of the

0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.520
<v Speaker 2>people in your community that you help depress will laugh

0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.520
<v Speaker 2>at you too. And there's some humble pie and some

0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:51.680
<v Speaker 2>apologies that you're going to have to eat and make

0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:56.200
<v Speaker 2>in the wake of that, and that part is really sad.

0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:59.160
<v Speaker 1>I think to your point, I'm going to continue with

0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:03.320
<v Speaker 1>the article. Quote. The big takeaway is that folks who

0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:06.320
<v Speaker 1>supported the lawsuit were saying this would be such a

0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:09.680
<v Speaker 1>big win for Asian Americans, that race based emissions was

0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:14.160
<v Speaker 1>some type of barrier to our upward mobility. Unquote said

0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:19.080
<v Speaker 1>I believe this is Kean pun or Ean Poon, maybe

0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:24.720
<v Speaker 1>faculty affiliate at the University of Illinois Urbana Champagne, Office

0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:28.040
<v Speaker 1>of Community College Research and Leadership. This person goes on

0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:30.560
<v Speaker 1>to say, what we're seeing is that that's not really

0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:34.640
<v Speaker 1>bearing out. Poon added. Columbia University, which unlike the other

0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:39.600
<v Speaker 1>IVS groups specific islanders with Asian Americans, saw an increase

0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:42.600
<v Speaker 1>of nine percentage in points in its enrollment of Asian

0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:46.960
<v Speaker 1>American applicants, while Brown saw an increase of four percentage points. Right,

0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:50.400
<v Speaker 1>so that sounds good. At Yale, the racial group dropped

0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:55.000
<v Speaker 1>by six points. Imagine the percentage of Asian people at

0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:59.680
<v Speaker 1>Yale dropping by six points. And at Princeton it decreased

0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:02.560
<v Speaker 1>by two two point two percentage points. It also decreased

0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:06.160
<v Speaker 1>at Dartmouth by one point five percentage points. Asian Americans

0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:12.760
<v Speaker 1>remained thirty seven percent of Harvard's freshman class, and that's Dartmouth. Dartmouth. Sorry,

0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm just reading this really quick. All right, So now

0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:19.480
<v Speaker 1>let's give you some notes from the emancipator. Some of

0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:22.600
<v Speaker 1>this will sound familiar, but this is kind of what

0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:27.160
<v Speaker 1>inspired this segment. New enrollment data from Yale shows Asian

0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.800
<v Speaker 1>Americans numbers decreased from six percent, while there's a four

0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:34.760
<v Speaker 1>percent increase in the share of white students. So this

0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:40.240
<v Speaker 1>is sense affirmative action. We're seeing Yale Asian Americans drop,

0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:46.960
<v Speaker 1>white students increase. Okay, that's without affirmative action, which again

0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.760
<v Speaker 1>we had forty plus years of affirmative action something like

0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:54.720
<v Speaker 1>that that told us that it was benefiting. As you

0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.439
<v Speaker 1>mentioned white women women in general, Asia, it.

0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Was actually benefiting everyone.

0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:03.080
<v Speaker 1>Everyone, Thank you, But we had that we could break

0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:03.480
<v Speaker 1>that down.

0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.320
<v Speaker 2>There's data that shows that not just affirmative action, but

0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:13.640
<v Speaker 2>DEI affects everyone and business across every sector positively.

0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:17.760
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, dude, this is why I show like this is

0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:22.119
<v Speaker 1>so important. All right. White leaders and plaintiffs in the

0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:25.560
<v Speaker 1>lawsuit against Harvard and UNC bamboozled a number of Asian

0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:30.359
<v Speaker 1>Americans into believing that affirmative action and anti racist policy

0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.240
<v Speaker 1>was bad for them and without it, Asian Americans wouldn't

0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:38.640
<v Speaker 1>be the big winners, and that just wasn't true. Early

0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.720
<v Speaker 1>outcomes of the Supreme Court ruling increases in the percentage

0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:47.040
<v Speaker 1>of white students, mixed outcomes for Asian Americans, significant declines

0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:52.600
<v Speaker 1>in Black, Latino and Indigenous students, with some exceptions. And

0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.800
<v Speaker 1>the source of this is public reports by Harvard, Amherst, Brown,

0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:58.040
<v Speaker 1>MI I, T. Princeton, Duke, U N c U v A,

0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:02.280
<v Speaker 1>b U N yale AAPI, civil rights leaders and over

0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:05.119
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and twenty one researchers warned the end of

0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:09.399
<v Speaker 1>affirmative action would not benefit Asian Americans, rejecting evidence. Asian

0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:13.520
<v Speaker 1>Americans who supported ending affirmative action leaned into anti black

0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:17.920
<v Speaker 1>and anti Latino stereotypes, believing hard work alone could save

0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:21.080
<v Speaker 1>them from systemic racism. And the source of this is

0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:26.199
<v Speaker 1>the Asian American Legal Defense and Education Fund. And then

0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:29.280
<v Speaker 1>the final note here ending race conscious admission was not

0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:31.840
<v Speaker 1>a win for Asian Americans. It was always by and

0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:34.240
<v Speaker 1>for white supremacy. We knew that, and we said that

0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.520
<v Speaker 1>moving forward, enrollment leadership must find new approaches to affirm

0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:41.639
<v Speaker 1>and recognized talent among students from marginalized groups. Now here's

0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:52.040
<v Speaker 1>the reason why this connected to me, and I felt bad.

0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:57.720
<v Speaker 1>My heart was broken at the height of the stop

0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:02.639
<v Speaker 1>Asian hate moment in our nation's history, when they were

0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:09.240
<v Speaker 1>there were attacks on Asian American people, Asian people just

0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:13.600
<v Speaker 1>walking around, random attacks, violent attacks against old women, old men.

0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:15.919
<v Speaker 1>Oftentimes they were from black people.

0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:18.760
<v Speaker 2>So you've said that before, and I have to correct you. Okay,

0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:22.040
<v Speaker 2>there were absolutely times from black people, but often makes

0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:25.359
<v Speaker 2>it seem like more than not, and that's just by

0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:26.560
<v Speaker 2>the numbers, not correct.

0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:30.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I want to acknowledge that black.

0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:34.080
<v Speaker 2>People acknowledge it. But we've now on our show said

0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:38.200
<v Speaker 2>that it was more from black people, and that's not true.

0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:40.879
<v Speaker 1>No, No, that wasn't what I intended, and thank you

0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:44.720
<v Speaker 1>for that. But I say that to say that this

0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:49.280
<v Speaker 1>show exists to affirm what is right, if it's right,

0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:53.359
<v Speaker 1>regardless of color. Yes, right, So acknowledging that black people

0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:57.879
<v Speaker 1>indeed were taking place in these attacks, I think is

0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:00.000
<v Speaker 1>the responsible thing for me to say.

0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:00.439
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:04.959
<v Speaker 1>As a result of that moment in time, I started

0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:12.840
<v Speaker 1>subscribing to some let's say, pro Asian activist groups, right,

0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:16.639
<v Speaker 1>some social media accounts, etc. Next Shark comes to mind,

0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:19.480
<v Speaker 1>Asians with Attitudes comes to mind, on and on right,

0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:25.280
<v Speaker 1>And I remember the moment when this Supreme Court thing

0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:30.800
<v Speaker 1>was being argued, and I remember seeing a lot of

0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:34.119
<v Speaker 1>those accounts looking at this like it would be a

0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:38.640
<v Speaker 1>big win for the Asian American community. And to know

0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:41.720
<v Speaker 1>now that it wasn't, it's like my heart breaks because

0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:46.440
<v Speaker 1>I know that these advocacy groups, I believe they're doing

0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.320
<v Speaker 1>their best, but the people on the ground that actually

0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:50.600
<v Speaker 1>suffer from it are the kids who end.

0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Up getting it. Doesn't break my heart because in far

0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:55.240
<v Speaker 2>too many cases they're able to make black people the

0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:59.000
<v Speaker 2>enemy of everyone else and as another repressed group, you

0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:00.640
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't fall for that.

0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:03.879
<v Speaker 1>That's a good point. Well, this is a much longer

0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:06.119
<v Speaker 1>conversation than we have time for today, so we're going

0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:07.919
<v Speaker 1>to leave it right there. As always, i'd like to

0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:10.159
<v Speaker 1>thank you for tuning in to Civic Cipher. I've been

0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:11.160
<v Speaker 1>your host, Rams's job.

0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:14.920
<v Speaker 2>He is Ramsy's jah I am q ward. Thank you

0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:18.760
<v Speaker 2>once again for continuing to tune in to Civic Cipher

0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:21.040
<v Speaker 2>and for spending time with us, making us a part

0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:23.679
<v Speaker 2>of your week or your day. It means more than

0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:26.000
<v Speaker 2>we could possibly express in the amount of time that

0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:26.360
<v Speaker 2>we have.

0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:28.840
<v Speaker 1>Sure. Sure we also want to let you know for

0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:33.399
<v Speaker 1>everyone listening to us on the radio, that our podcast

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0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:56.720
<v Speaker 1>I am steel qward. And until next week, y'all. Peace,