Speaker 1: Keep on riding, would have says. We continue to broadcast
Speaker 1: the balance and to defend the discourse from the hip
Speaker 1: hop weekly studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Ramsy's job. He is Ramsy's job. I am q Ward.
Speaker 1: You are tuned into Civic Sigpher, Yes you are, and
Speaker 1: we are in a good space this week, again off
Speaker 1: of the high of being outside in our nation's capital
Speaker 1: on the other side of the country, Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: For the Congressional Black Caucus, we brought back some energy,
Speaker 1: some opportunities, and some optimism that you know, hopefully you
Speaker 1: will hear in our voices today. It's not often that
Speaker 1: we get charged up, but we're definitely charged up, and
Speaker 1: we're asking to stick around because we are going to
Speaker 1: be talking about how our Asian American brothers and sisters
Speaker 1: have fared without affirmative action. And I think the results
Speaker 1: they're definitely mixed results, but they're definitely interesting, especially considering
Speaker 1: that that group was one of the groups really fighting
Speaker 1: for firm inaction. So we're going to see how it looks.
Speaker 1: But before we get there, it's time to discuss Baba
Speaker 1: becoming a better allied. Baba Today's BABA is sponsored by
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Speaker 1: All right, how have Asian Americans fared without affirmative action? Okay,
Speaker 1: before we get into this, first thing I want to
Speaker 1: say is not all Asian Americans have been fans of
Speaker 1: affirmative action. Okay, many of them saw this coming, Many
Speaker 1: of them understood the thrust of affirmative action. And this
Speaker 1: is not something that I want for those people to
Speaker 1: feel is pointed in their direction, nor is it pointed
Speaker 1: in the direction of those Asian American individuals who legitimately
Speaker 1: felt that affirmative action worked against them. It is okay,
Speaker 1: to be wrong. It is not okay to stay wrong,
Speaker 1: but it's okay to be wrong. And on this show,
Speaker 1: Q and I both have firm continually that no one
Speaker 1: is simply the worst thing that they've done in their life. Right,
Speaker 1: people should have a road back from their worst moments.
Speaker 1: I certainly would appreciate that if I was in my
Speaker 1: worst moment. So we do our best to extend that
Speaker 1: as often as we can.
Speaker 2: And it's it's important to help provide that road back
Speaker 2: because the alternative is people deciding, well, I can't go
Speaker 2: back over there, so I may as well double triple
Speaker 2: quadruple down where I.
Speaker 1: Am right on their wrongness, on their wrongness. Yes, but
Speaker 1: what we have now, and I want to shout out
Speaker 1: the Emancipator it's for those familiar with the Boston Globe.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a newspaper obviously in Boston, Massachusetts. They
Speaker 1: have a division or a separate, you know paper under
Speaker 1: their you know, corporate umbrella called the Emancipator. And uh,
Speaker 1: this is a source for a lot of our content.
Speaker 1: We use the Root, we use Atlanta Black Star, we
Speaker 1: use you know, a lot of the Chicago Defender, of course,
Speaker 1: and many others around the country. The Arizona Informant comes
Speaker 1: to mind. But the Emancipator originally brought this to our attention,
Speaker 1: and the way they did that caused us to really think, Okay, so,
Speaker 1: now that affirmative action has been repealed, is this what
Speaker 1: people wanted? Now? We're going to do our best to
Speaker 1: tell both sides of the story. We're journalists and we
Speaker 1: have to do that. But I want you to listen
Speaker 1: to some key things here, because for folks who really
Speaker 1: thought affirmative action was keeping Asian Americans from slots in
Speaker 1: schools that they well deserved, I think that this introduces
Speaker 1: some new elements for you to consider if that's what
Speaker 1: you thought was happening. First, I'm going to share from
Speaker 1: the NBC News and then we'll get to what the
Speaker 1: Emancer paper has shared with us. All right, this from
Speaker 1: NBC News. In the first college admissions process since the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court struck down affirmative action last year, Asian American
Speaker 1: enrollment at the most prestigious US schools paints a mixed
Speaker 1: uneven picture. Some Ivy League schools, including Colombia and Brown Universities,
Speaker 1: showed an increase in Asian Americans for the class of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty eight, which is good. That is good. While
Speaker 1: others like Yale and Princeton, oh, seem a little bit
Speaker 1: more prestigious even than you know, Brown and Colombia, Others
Speaker 1: like Yale and Princeton showed a decrease. About that. Harvard,
Speaker 1: the most selective of the group, didn't see a change
Speaker 1: at all, according to enrollment numbers released on Wednesday by
Speaker 1: the school. So if we just taket Harvard by itself
Speaker 1: with no change, did affirmative action ultimately help Asian American students? Well,
Speaker 1: the answer, if you're looking at indeed the most prestigious institutions,
Speaker 1: is meh okay. But this is only part of what
Speaker 1: we're talking about here. Experts say that it may take
Speaker 1: years to see the definitive impact of the decision, which
Speaker 1: restricted the consideration of race and college admissions but didn't
Speaker 1: have the effect many who opposed the policy had expected.
Speaker 1: They said, now I want to read this first part again.
Speaker 1: Experts say that it may take years to see the
Speaker 1: definitive impact of the decision. I think that's true. I
Speaker 1: think that a lot of times we talk about the
Speaker 1: scale and the timeline of a country, it takes a
Speaker 1: long time to indeed know what the effects of policy
Speaker 1: change will be. Right, it'd be nice if everything we
Speaker 1: can we would see everything immediately in the immediate impact
Speaker 1: of it, but sometimes it takes a while. But one
Speaker 1: thing that's irrefutable is that affirmative action did indeed over time,
Speaker 1: because we did have time with affirmative action when it
Speaker 1: was the law of the land. It did bolster African
Speaker 1: American enrollment at these prestigious institutions, and if I'm not mistaken,
Speaker 1: all institutions that were under serving minority communities. And it
Speaker 1: also benefited women. Women were the biggest benefitters, white white
Speaker 1: women especially, but they were the ones beneficiaries is the
Speaker 1: word I'm looking for of affirmative action. So this is
Speaker 1: something that we know we did it, and then we learned, Wow,
Speaker 1: these groups that have historically been subjected our benefiting. OK.
Speaker 1: And then with the Supreme Court, many of the people
Speaker 1: who voted on this were put in position because of
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. So for those that either didn't vote or
Speaker 1: voted for Donald Trump, this is kind of an extension
Speaker 1: of your doing when you cast your ballot. It has
Speaker 1: now been repealed and we're looking for the positives for
Speaker 1: all of us Americans in affirmative action being repealed, and
Speaker 1: so far we can't see any We don't see any
Speaker 1: change with Asian Americans at Harvard, with Yale and Princeton,
Speaker 1: enrollment dropped and enrollment increased at Colombia and Brown. Okay, So.
Speaker 2: There's this masterful thing that has happened throughout the hist
Speaker 2: story of our nation, in particular where misogyny, capitalism, racism,
Speaker 2: and the patriarchy have combined to form oppressive vota ron.
Speaker 2: And the reason that this has been able to sustain
Speaker 2: as long as it has and continues to because you
Speaker 2: speak about progress in the time that it takes. It's
Speaker 2: not because that's the requirement. It does not have to
Speaker 2: take a long time. There's just so much resistance to it.
Speaker 2: We chip away with it or at it a little
Speaker 2: bit at a time. It doesn't have to take a
Speaker 2: long time for progress. Decisions could be made right now
Speaker 2: and implement it right now, and implement it right now.
Speaker 2: That would affect everyone, everyone, almost everyone in a positive
Speaker 2: way right now. And when I say almost everyone, I
Speaker 2: don't mean like seventy percent of people. I mean like
Speaker 2: nine percent of people. However, that one percent are the
Speaker 2: ones with the power and the influence and the money,
Speaker 2: and they're also racist. It's important to keep saying that
Speaker 2: part out loud, because almost everything that's wrong or in
Speaker 2: almost every area that we as a collective nation fall short,
Speaker 2: tied back to racism. The reason we don't have universal
Speaker 2: health care, the reason why there is a requirement that
Speaker 2: in an entire segment of our population go without everything
Speaker 2: they need, not just health care, but food, money, resources,
Speaker 2: et cetera. It's all based in racism.
Speaker 3: The environment, yes, environment, the denial of climate change also
Speaker 3: based in racism. Right, So this is not our opinion,
Speaker 3: by the way, No, No, this is easily verifiable data to
Speaker 3: support this argument.
Speaker 2: This is not an hypothesis that I'm coming up with
Speaker 2: in real time. This has been proven by scholars who
Speaker 2: are not black, over and over again. Is even the
Speaker 2: conversation about critical race theory, which we won't have right now,
Speaker 2: was snatched from the area of academicia where it exists
Speaker 2: and placed into the textbook of children in their minds.
Speaker 2: It's never actually happened, but just based on racism and
Speaker 2: not wanting to make people feel guilty for being racist.
Speaker 2: This thing where imagine this cartoon that I'm drawing in
Speaker 2: a comic book or on your television. Name the resource.
Speaker 2: Make it milk and honey, make it gold, make it money,
Speaker 2: make it, make it wheat, make it corn, make it
Speaker 2: whatever you'd like. And there's a person in charge of
Speaker 2: producing said resource, or farming said resource, or guarding said resource,
Speaker 2: or making said resource available. And this person has an
Speaker 2: unlimited amount of said resource. And then take you and
Speaker 2: your neighbor and set you both at a table. Now,
Speaker 2: in this picture, I want you to see that this
Speaker 2: person has an unlimited supply of that resource. I'll use
Speaker 2: clean water because it's an easy one to picture. And
Speaker 2: that person takes a single glass of clean water and
Speaker 2: places it in front of one of you. The important
Speaker 2: part of this illustration is that you can see that
Speaker 2: this person has unlimited clean water. It's not in some
Speaker 2: storage facility somewhere where you don't actually see what's going on. No,
Speaker 2: you see it. This person's actually sitting in front of it.
Speaker 2: There's three chairs in this picture. He's sitting in front
Speaker 2: of an unlimited amount of clean water, and you and
Speaker 2: your neighbor are sitting at the same table with him.
Speaker 2: He places a single glass on the table. One of
Speaker 2: you grabs it because you're thirsty. He then tells the
Speaker 2: other one, the reason you don't have clean water is
Speaker 2: because of your neighbor.
Speaker 1: That's a masterful analogy.
Speaker 2: And then you not blinded, you can see it. You
Speaker 2: then hate your neighbor for drinking that glass of water,
Speaker 2: and he has now created your enemy and made sure
Speaker 2: that it was not him. And that is plainly how
Speaker 2: this system of hate rhetoric and othering and racism. And
Speaker 2: I could go on with all of the words that
Speaker 2: fit this argument, but this is how they sustain and
Speaker 2: continue to thrive. Make enemies of each other, and those
Speaker 2: that exploit us get to continue to do so and
Speaker 2: laugh at us for fighting each other. So in these
Speaker 2: cases where those who are oppressed fight each other at
Speaker 2: the behest of the oppressor, the oppressor doesn't then say
Speaker 2: good job to the one that helped right Asian American
Speaker 2: people were in with the legal precedent that got rid
Speaker 2: of affirmative action. The racist white person who headed those
Speaker 2: efforts did not reach out to remember the Asian American
Speaker 2: community because they helped him be a white supremacist, because
Speaker 2: you're also not white. Unfortunately, so for those of us
Speaker 2: who continue to march, organize, vote, legislate, and speak out
Speaker 2: against our own best interest. When the one that you
Speaker 2: help successfully oppress you gets what he wants, he is
Speaker 2: not going to remember to make room for you. He's
Speaker 2: going to laugh at you. And unfortunately some of the
Speaker 2: people in your community that you help depress will laugh
Speaker 2: at you too. And there's some humble pie and some
Speaker 2: apologies that you're going to have to eat and make
Speaker 2: in the wake of that, and that part is really sad.
Speaker 1: I think to your point, I'm going to continue with
Speaker 1: the article. Quote. The big takeaway is that folks who
Speaker 1: supported the lawsuit were saying this would be such a
Speaker 1: big win for Asian Americans, that race based emissions was
Speaker 1: some type of barrier to our upward mobility. Unquote said
Speaker 1: I believe this is Kean pun or Ean Poon, maybe
Speaker 1: faculty affiliate at the University of Illinois Urbana Champagne, Office
Speaker 1: of Community College Research and Leadership. This person goes on
Speaker 1: to say, what we're seeing is that that's not really
Speaker 1: bearing out. Poon added. Columbia University, which unlike the other
Speaker 1: IVS groups specific islanders with Asian Americans, saw an increase
Speaker 1: of nine percentage in points in its enrollment of Asian
Speaker 1: American applicants, while Brown saw an increase of four percentage points. Right,
Speaker 1: so that sounds good. At Yale, the racial group dropped
Speaker 1: by six points. Imagine the percentage of Asian people at
Speaker 1: Yale dropping by six points. And at Princeton it decreased
Speaker 1: by two two point two percentage points. It also decreased
Speaker 1: at Dartmouth by one point five percentage points. Asian Americans
Speaker 1: remained thirty seven percent of Harvard's freshman class, and that's Dartmouth. Dartmouth. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm just reading this really quick. All right, So now
Speaker 1: let's give you some notes from the emancipator. Some of
Speaker 1: this will sound familiar, but this is kind of what
Speaker 1: inspired this segment. New enrollment data from Yale shows Asian
Speaker 1: Americans numbers decreased from six percent, while there's a four
Speaker 1: percent increase in the share of white students. So this
Speaker 1: is sense affirmative action. We're seeing Yale Asian Americans drop,
Speaker 1: white students increase. Okay, that's without affirmative action, which again
Speaker 1: we had forty plus years of affirmative action something like
Speaker 1: that that told us that it was benefiting. As you
Speaker 1: mentioned white women women in general, Asia, it.
Speaker 2: Was actually benefiting everyone.
Speaker 1: Everyone, Thank you, But we had that we could break
Speaker 1: that down.
Speaker 2: There's data that shows that not just affirmative action, but
Speaker 2: DEI affects everyone and business across every sector positively.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, dude, this is why I show like this is
Speaker 1: so important. All right. White leaders and plaintiffs in the
Speaker 1: lawsuit against Harvard and UNC bamboozled a number of Asian
Speaker 1: Americans into believing that affirmative action and anti racist policy
Speaker 1: was bad for them and without it, Asian Americans wouldn't
Speaker 1: be the big winners, and that just wasn't true. Early
Speaker 1: outcomes of the Supreme Court ruling increases in the percentage
Speaker 1: of white students, mixed outcomes for Asian Americans, significant declines
Speaker 1: in Black, Latino and Indigenous students, with some exceptions. And
Speaker 1: the source of this is public reports by Harvard, Amherst, Brown,
Speaker 1: MI I, T. Princeton, Duke, U N c U v A,
Speaker 1: b U N yale AAPI, civil rights leaders and over
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty one researchers warned the end of
Speaker 1: affirmative action would not benefit Asian Americans, rejecting evidence. Asian
Speaker 1: Americans who supported ending affirmative action leaned into anti black
Speaker 1: and anti Latino stereotypes, believing hard work alone could save
Speaker 1: them from systemic racism. And the source of this is
Speaker 1: the Asian American Legal Defense and Education Fund. And then
Speaker 1: the final note here ending race conscious admission was not
Speaker 1: a win for Asian Americans. It was always by and
Speaker 1: for white supremacy. We knew that, and we said that
Speaker 1: moving forward, enrollment leadership must find new approaches to affirm
Speaker 1: and recognized talent among students from marginalized groups. Now here's
Speaker 1: the reason why this connected to me, and I felt bad.
Speaker 1: My heart was broken at the height of the stop
Speaker 1: Asian hate moment in our nation's history, when they were
Speaker 1: there were attacks on Asian American people, Asian people just
Speaker 1: walking around, random attacks, violent attacks against old women, old men.
Speaker 1: Oftentimes they were from black people.
Speaker 2: So you've said that before, and I have to correct you. Okay,
Speaker 2: there were absolutely times from black people, but often makes
Speaker 2: it seem like more than not, and that's just by
Speaker 2: the numbers, not correct.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I want to acknowledge that black.
Speaker 2: People acknowledge it. But we've now on our show said
Speaker 2: that it was more from black people, and that's not true.
Speaker 1: No, No, that wasn't what I intended, and thank you
Speaker 1: for that. But I say that to say that this
Speaker 1: show exists to affirm what is right, if it's right,
Speaker 1: regardless of color. Yes, right, So acknowledging that black people
Speaker 1: indeed were taking place in these attacks, I think is
Speaker 1: the responsible thing for me to say.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: As a result of that moment in time, I started
Speaker 1: subscribing to some let's say, pro Asian activist groups, right,
Speaker 1: some social media accounts, etc. Next Shark comes to mind,
Speaker 1: Asians with Attitudes comes to mind, on and on right,
Speaker 1: And I remember the moment when this Supreme Court thing
Speaker 1: was being argued, and I remember seeing a lot of
Speaker 1: those accounts looking at this like it would be a
Speaker 1: big win for the Asian American community. And to know
Speaker 1: now that it wasn't, it's like my heart breaks because
Speaker 1: I know that these advocacy groups, I believe they're doing
Speaker 1: their best, but the people on the ground that actually
Speaker 1: suffer from it are the kids who end.
Speaker 2: Up getting it. Doesn't break my heart because in far
Speaker 2: too many cases they're able to make black people the
Speaker 2: enemy of everyone else and as another repressed group, you
Speaker 2: shouldn't fall for that.
Speaker 1: That's a good point. Well, this is a much longer
Speaker 1: conversation than we have time for today, so we're going
Speaker 1: to leave it right there. As always, i'd like to
Speaker 1: thank you for tuning in to Civic Cipher. I've been
Speaker 1: your host, Rams's job.
Speaker 2: He is Ramsy's jah I am q ward. Thank you
Speaker 2: once again for continuing to tune in to Civic Cipher
Speaker 2: and for spending time with us, making us a part
Speaker 2: of your week or your day. It means more than
Speaker 2: we could possibly express in the amount of time that
Speaker 2: we have.
Speaker 1: Sure. Sure we also want to let you know for
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Speaker 1: I am steel qward. And until next week, y'all. Peace,