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Speaker 1: Hey, we welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is all ball,

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Speaker 1: Happy Thanksgiving to you. We're dropping this on Thanksgiving. Cincinnati

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Speaker 1: just played and dominated Louisville, who as an old school rivalry.

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Speaker 1: Right you go back, Metro Conference was a great American

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Speaker 1: Conference Conference USA in the Big East. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: would guess. I would guess that when the guys the

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Speaker 1: conferences continue to expand, contract and whatever, it would make

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Speaker 1: sense at some point Louisville and the ACC, if the

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Speaker 1: ACC has any weaknesses or things, break off. Wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: crazy to see Louisville joined the Big Twelve where they

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Speaker 1: could get back to playing against Cincinnati and obviously West

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Speaker 1: Virginia already already in the league. But well, I bring

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Speaker 1: up Cincinnati because West Miller is our guest on this pot.

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Speaker 1: And you know, it's interesting this podcast, and I truly

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Speaker 1: appreciate so many of you who have for the last

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Speaker 1: how many years, have been doing this almost almost five years,

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Speaker 1: four years been doing this this pod. You understand that

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Speaker 1: that sports is not just about the sport. It's about

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Speaker 1: the journey, the relationships, the stories, the personal growth, you know,

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Speaker 1: all the hard stuff it takes you to have success,

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Speaker 1: and generally we've had very, very successful people. And it's just,

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Speaker 1: you know, I love listening to stories stories of success.

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Speaker 1: Was just in in Steward, Oklahoma, and I was talking

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Speaker 1: with Tom Holiday, who's former head coach at Oaklahoma State,

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Speaker 1: former head coach at NC State. It's pitching coach for

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Speaker 1: Augie Garita at Texas and obviously his son's have been

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Speaker 1: incredibly successful. Josh's outstanding coach at OSU is the head coach.

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Speaker 1: And then his son, my other son, Matt, was seven

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Speaker 1: time All Star and four time Silver Slugger. And then

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Speaker 1: his grandson, Jackson, was just the number one overall pick

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Speaker 1: in the Major League Baseball Draft. And but you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like, you know, when I weren't talking fastballs and

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Speaker 1: hitting curveballs, whenever, we're talking telling stories and Algi Garrito

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Speaker 1: stories that were amazing, you know, and I shared stories

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Speaker 1: of my own. With Thanksgiving here, I can only tell

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Speaker 1: you I don't know how it works now. There are

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Speaker 1: so many Thanksgiving tournaments that I'm sure there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of places where, uh, you come home from a

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Speaker 1: tournament and you have today off, or you have something

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Speaker 1: like today, But I do of of the things you

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Speaker 1: miss about playing Thanksgiving practice. It was actually kind of

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Speaker 1: one of them, right because you're you're sitting there and

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Speaker 1: you're working out. It used to be. I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is this is what happened at at Notre Dame, and

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Speaker 1: that's what happened to Oaklham State, to Welcome State. We

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Speaker 1: didn't do the night practice, but it would always be

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Speaker 1: a really really hard practice and then you know, you

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Speaker 1: had nothing, nobody's around in town, and then you had

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Speaker 1: some form of dinner together. At Notre Dame, we all

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Speaker 1: broke off and went to one of the coach's houses.

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Speaker 1: I went to Terry Tyler's house. Terry, of course played

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Speaker 1: in the NBA. He played actually for Dick by Talith

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Speaker 1: the Detroit Pistons. Was an all time great guy all

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Speaker 1: he and he think he was his first year as

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Speaker 1: being an assistant. He had just been married and you know,

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Speaker 1: so it was like his wife's first Thanksgiving and she

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Speaker 1: she killed it. She made awesome food and uh. And

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Speaker 1: then the next two year, next three years at Oaklham State,

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Speaker 1: I think one year we might have been in Hawaii.

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Speaker 1: Now I remember all three years. I think we were

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Speaker 1: at the country club. And Patsy Sutton, who has also

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Speaker 1: passed on with with coach Sutton. She would come up

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Speaker 1: to each player and she said, you know, I left

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Speaker 1: a note on your you know, at your locker, like

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Speaker 1: a little sticky note a locker, and it was just

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Speaker 1: what's your favorite Thanksgiving recipe? And who should I call

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Speaker 1: to get it? And it's it's, you know, like the

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Speaker 1: thing I love about basketball, to be totally honest. I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously the game and the movement, the spacing and the

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Speaker 1: roar of the crowd and winning gate road games and

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Speaker 1: even losing games. Now think back, and there was all

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Speaker 1: the lessons learned. But the other part is I grew

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Speaker 1: up in a house where, you know, my mom and

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Speaker 1: dad are from the East Coast and Jewish parents. But

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Speaker 1: my dad had traveled everywhere with basketball, and so he was,

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Speaker 1: you know, he had learned about all these cultures and

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Speaker 1: in the United States at this point, you know, he

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Speaker 1: became more of a world traveler. Followed me around in

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Speaker 1: basketball and then even more so afterwards, and they traveled

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Speaker 1: some when I was a little but you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: and then you know, my mom was had we'd had

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Speaker 1: people from all over the country stay at the house.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it's not like not like when I

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Speaker 1: was at Thanksgiving. I remember, and you know, being at

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Speaker 1: a black family's house, or a mixed race family's house,

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Speaker 1: or anybody from any other backgrounds house, because you know,

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Speaker 1: as a kid, you're always with your your family on Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 1: So the idea of like you just there's some like

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Speaker 1: purple jelly dessert thing. I don't know. Several of my

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Speaker 1: teammates had it, and I liked it even the addition,

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Speaker 1: and I've I've like this. It's more kind of Southern

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Speaker 1: than it is across racial backgrounds. But candy dams and

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Speaker 1: macaroni and cheese very much a staple of Thanksgiving when

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Speaker 1: those guys got a chance to pick their favorite. So

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Speaker 1: now like when I make Thanksgiving dinner, I always have

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Speaker 1: candy dams, collar greens and macaroni and cheese. And for

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Speaker 1: the record, my mom makes some mean collar greens. She

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Speaker 1: has a great recipe, and I make that rescue myself

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Speaker 1: that that precludes anything in college. The point is, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I really know those guys and know a

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Speaker 1: lot about them, but also know about their cultures, and

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Speaker 1: it's kind of one of those things where you know,

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Speaker 1: I just I have always struggled. I think you guys

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Speaker 1: who have followed my career and listen to me. I've

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Speaker 1: always struggled with anybody who has some sort of issue

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Speaker 1: with somebody else has a race, because I don't know,

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Speaker 1: when you're playing basketball, you may you may make a

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Speaker 1: stereotype of their of their level of athleticism based upon

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Speaker 1: their race, but there's no real negative connotation to any

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Speaker 1: other part. Like like this, like people acting like I

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Speaker 1: don't understand anyone being having some sort of racial bias

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Speaker 1: against one person or another. I don't like all of

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Speaker 1: all of the things that people are claiming exists so

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Speaker 1: much in sports. I don't think I ever saw I

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Speaker 1: just didn't, you know. Yeah, I would be the white

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Speaker 1: guy on a lot of teams, but like that, so

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Speaker 1: they treated me any different. I never treated anybody else

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Speaker 1: different because of the cult for their skin. So it's

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Speaker 1: just it's just weird. And I had to think back

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Speaker 1: to the dynamic of Thanksgiving dinner and whether it's you know,

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Speaker 1: Terry Tyler's condo and in South Bend where we all ate,

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Speaker 1: and it was all of us freshmen and gigantic Phil

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Speaker 1: Hickey and and Tony Weish and Gary Bell and then

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Speaker 1: we all passed out watched the Cowboys play, and then

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Speaker 1: coach woke us up and said, hey, man, we got

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Speaker 1: to go get a second practice, Like what come on, man,

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Speaker 1: can we just cancel this thing? And then you know,

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Speaker 1: fast forward to being a still Water country club and

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Speaker 1: you know, going through these incredible dishes and honestly, like

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Speaker 1: my mom taught me a lot of things, but my

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Speaker 1: mom making me try everything that she ever serves, you

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Speaker 1: gotta at least try it. And I remember every year

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Speaker 1: I would say like, I'm gonna try everything. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna try everything. And you know, I to this day,

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Speaker 1: I know who likes what dish and we would talk

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Speaker 1: about it and we would make fun of dudes, and

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Speaker 1: it was great. So the camaraderie and understanding of different

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Speaker 1: cultures and backgrounds. I mean, even Fred Johansen, who's came

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Speaker 1: from Sweden and I remember there's a a noodle dish

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Speaker 1: that he liked that it wasn't this obviously didn't have Thanksgiving,

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Speaker 1: and he came to the States and played at Shawnee

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Speaker 1: Mission East and then eventually became a great player at

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Speaker 1: Oakhama State. I mean, even that is something that I

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Speaker 1: will kind of cherish. So those little things the knowledge

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Speaker 1: of your teammates or the kids that play for you,

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Speaker 1: or or anything like that's I don't on a granular level.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of what this is what this is all about.

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Speaker 1: Right As far as the hoop, college hoop has been

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Speaker 1: really good, and obviously there's a there's there's some things

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Speaker 1: that are are happening that are just interesting, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's start with I would say November, the

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Speaker 1: story has been HBCUs are winning guarantee games, winning by games,

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Speaker 1: and I think a little of it is HBCUs are

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Speaker 1: you know, they're they haven't yet hit the travel yet.

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Speaker 1: They're not because schedules have changed. You know, you're not

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Speaker 1: catching I mean like schools like Southern that win some

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Speaker 1: of these games, you go back a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 1: and you know by the time some of these you know,

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Speaker 1: power fives would catch them, they would be on their

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Speaker 1: like fifth game in six days. The travel is just

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Speaker 1: and the travel is still gonna be hard for him,

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Speaker 1: but it's not. It's it's just a little bit a

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Speaker 1: little bit different. But also they have better players because

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Speaker 1: the transfer portal and there are some good things from

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Speaker 1: it where it's allowed kids to go somewhere and play.

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Speaker 1: But it's also changed very much the Power five schools,

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Speaker 1: where you're putting together a new team every year and

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Speaker 1: that's your first ball game together like ever, and if

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Speaker 1: you've ever, I mean now obviously coaching ae like you

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Speaker 1: add a kid and you collectively have better talent than

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Speaker 1: you had before you added that kid, but you're not

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Speaker 1: a better team until you learned how to play together,

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Speaker 1: and you learn how to play for the coach and

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Speaker 1: all those things. I think that's honestly probably the bigger

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Speaker 1: dynamic there are. As everybody says in college Houpe, there

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Speaker 1: are players everywhere. I've always been players everywhere, but there's

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Speaker 1: especially players everywhere now and then. So I think the

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Speaker 1: HBCUs winning games, it's amazing, it's amazing, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: and it's sustainability, but we can't What we can't do

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Speaker 1: is we can't do the thing that we've always done

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Speaker 1: for every for the big, big boys, and not do

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Speaker 1: it for the little guys, which means, you know, so

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Speaker 1: oftentimes when we get to the NSA totermament, I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying like an HBCU is going to get an at

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Speaker 1: large bid and it's going to be really hard for

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Speaker 1: them to sustain it, because again, their schedules are ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: But we'll do this thing where we'll say, you know,

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Speaker 1: look at this non conference win, and yet do you

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Speaker 1: know how hard it is to win a guarantee game

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Speaker 1: on the road. The other part to it, and this

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Speaker 1: is a real thing, is attendance is not particularly good

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Speaker 1: in November for these home games, and that creates a

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Speaker 1: much more even playing field. You know, obviously at my

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Speaker 1: own moderocal mistake, and one because of football season two,

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Speaker 1: I don't really know November games, but you know, they

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Speaker 1: lost a Southern Illinois and obviously they're doing they're doing it.

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Speaker 1: I think Southern Illinois pretty good, and they play a

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Speaker 1: style and of a level of physicality defensively which Ogloma

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Speaker 1: State had a big league but was unable to sustain

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Speaker 1: it and end up losing home. But you know, when

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Speaker 1: I played there, we would have sixty three hundred people

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Speaker 1: in a sixty three hundred place even for a game

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Speaker 1: like that, and the crowd would give you like ten points.

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Speaker 1: No way you're gonna lose a game just because the

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Speaker 1: cry wouldn't let you would let it. We played a

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Speaker 1: World Roberts, my first year there, Barry Hinston was the

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Speaker 1: coach and he was he was crying, and because he's

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Speaker 1: at OS EO one, he's crying the press conference. The

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Speaker 1: old girl goddess hes right, like, we didn't win that game.

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Speaker 1: Gallagher won that game. And I think that's really changed

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Speaker 1: as as obviously some schools are gonna, you know, the

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Speaker 1: Dukes of the world draw and draw well, and they

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Speaker 1: even with John, they'll continue to do so. But so

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Speaker 1: if you if you want to break down the why

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Speaker 1: are some of these low majors and HBCUs competitive and

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Speaker 1: even winning these games, I think those are the factors

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Speaker 1: that they still have the energy of taking down David

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Speaker 1: or taking down Goliath. Sorry as David, and I think

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Speaker 1: they have a little bit better players because guys, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe on their last stop, get a chance to transfer

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Speaker 1: in and they're they're older, and then you know the

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Speaker 1: lack of cohesiveness of new teams at the Power five level,

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Speaker 1: and then you factor into crowds and and there's kind

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Speaker 1: of some of your story in regards to conference by conference,

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Speaker 1: I'll go through that, but I just I wanted you

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Speaker 1: to have this because west Miller is a dude who

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Speaker 1: that's a really amazing story, you know, and we'll kind

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Speaker 1: of part two when he has time who was getting

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Speaker 1: ready to leave for Hawaii. But if you ever wondered

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Speaker 1: like how it all happened, and if you're not familiar

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Speaker 1: with the story, I mean I am, I'm not. I'm

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Speaker 1: not a big man, Jenny, and West is not as

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Speaker 1: big as me. And he became a great player at

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Speaker 1: North Carolina, an unbelievable shooter. But I mean to go

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Speaker 1: to to go to James Madison and then from James

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Speaker 1: Madison walk on at North Carolina and not just walk

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Speaker 1: on but become a starter and a star in North

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Speaker 1: Carolina is remarkable. And then the next part too, it

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Speaker 1: is I actually do I haven't come around on Nil,

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Speaker 1: but I've sort of come around on Nia. I don't.

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Speaker 1: Here's the deal. I don't think in truth that it's healthy.

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Speaker 1: I know it's not healthy to use it as a

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Speaker 1: recruiting and inducement. And that's what it is. And we

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Speaker 1: all knew it was going to happen. That's what's happened.

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Speaker 1: But what it's Nil has done in college basketballs because

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Speaker 1: you know so many Oscar sheep Way and I mean

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Speaker 1: Kofie Coburn shouldn't have gone pro. He should just stayed.

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Speaker 1: He should have stayed in college ten years. Right, those

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Speaker 1: guys don't really have value in the NBA. That NBA

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Speaker 1: game has changed, and I would expect at some point

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Speaker 1: the college game maybe maybe to fall suit. Maybe I

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Speaker 1: don't know, depends on what they do. Rule was, but

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Speaker 1: those guys are maybe fringe players in the NBA. Maybe

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Speaker 1: some will be, some won't. But we see this, there's

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Speaker 1: two different types of players that college basketball has. Loves

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Speaker 1: needs will always have love. Need are great college players,

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Speaker 1: but they're just not great NBA players, And honestly, for

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Speaker 1: one position, it can even be hard at times overseats

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Speaker 1: point guard especially you know, diminutive guards, smaller guards, and

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Speaker 1: was a traditional college center or power forward like the

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Speaker 1: big guys and they don't. You just don't know. It

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Speaker 1: was twenty years ago after Sheebway would be in the

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Speaker 1: NBA starting California. Now, like I don't know, I mean

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Speaker 1: he's he's but he's great in college great. I mean

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Speaker 1: Drew Timmy the same thing. So what the what the

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Speaker 1: NIL has done is it's put money in these kids

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Speaker 1: pockets so they don't make really bad decisions like try

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Speaker 1: to go to the NBA Draft and not get drafted,

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Speaker 1: or you know, end up in the G League and

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Speaker 1: bounce around and tool around. Instead, I play out your

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Speaker 1: college career and now obviously they have money in their

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Speaker 1: pocket when they're done. So again, I you, guys, you

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Speaker 1: listen to me enough. I just I always thought that

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Speaker 1: the nil is what west Miller got, which is he played,

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Speaker 1: he bet on himself, he did great. He's part of

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Speaker 1: the Carolina family. And then everything else you do, everything

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Speaker 1: else you do the rest of your life is a

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Speaker 1: benefit of playing in North Carolina. He's in the Carolina family.

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Speaker 1: Roy Williams, you know, called him right before we did

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Speaker 1: this interview here. That's that's becomes who you are. So

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Speaker 1: I think I haven't come around to it, but I

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Speaker 1: understand its value and I do think that it can

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Speaker 1: do a lot of good for college basketball. Now the

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Speaker 1: question is can we adjust it to where Can we

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Speaker 1: adjust it to where it's not you can't give it

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Speaker 1: to kids who haven't played. Can we adjust it so

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Speaker 1: that there's some sort of reasonable scale so there's not

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Speaker 1: poaching a players. And you know it, along with the

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Speaker 1: transfer portal, has made for a wild wild West of

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Speaker 1: the off season and that has to settle because one

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Speaker 1: reason you will find that across the board, jetership is

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Speaker 1: just yeah, is because you know the first two months

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Speaker 1: of the season, you're trying to figure out what he's playing.

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Speaker 1: Didn't you where did he played? He played there? I've

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Speaker 1: never heard of this dude. So there's good, there's bad.

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Speaker 1: It's a great step. But the point of me bringing

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Speaker 1: up the nil is that this is West Miller is

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Speaker 1: original old school at IL And by that, I don't

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Speaker 1: mean he got paid when he's in North Carolina, but

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Speaker 1: that I'm in he mean he been His name, image

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Speaker 1: and lightness benefited greatly and we'll continue to do so

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Speaker 1: because of his stellar career and how he treated people

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Speaker 1: and how he handles himself at North Carolina. He's gone

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Speaker 1: on to an outstanding coaching career, some of which will

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Speaker 1: get into without further ado. Here's my talk with West Miller.

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Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in

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Speaker 1: the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports

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Speaker 1: Radio dot com and within the iHeart Radio app search

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Speaker 1: FSR to listen live. I want to get to where

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Speaker 1: you are now, but where did it start? Like when

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Speaker 1: your first playing hoops is in what town where first ever? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Greensboro, North Carolina. Where where the y m

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Speaker 1: C A downtown y MCA, Greensboro, North Carolina, Probably four

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Speaker 1: or five years old. I didn't realize that your ties

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Speaker 1: to Greensboro go that like, I mean in Carolina, like

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Speaker 1: if you're not from there, like you just thought, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I know the Triangle, you know, I know a couple

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Speaker 1: of Charlotte, I know a couple of little areas, and

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Speaker 1: I knew you're from around Greensboro. I didn't know from

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Speaker 1: actual Greensboro downtown y MCA. So when'd you start playing?

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Speaker 1: Like did you start playing with the gutten the men? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I mean listen, I was in love with basketball since

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Speaker 1: I can remember backyard with my dad y m C

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Speaker 1: A ball the earliest possible age you could do it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like I don't think I played with men until much later.

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Speaker 1: But if they would have let me, I would have,

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Speaker 1: you know, but I was. I was fortunately great parents.

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Speaker 1: Doug and my dad went to Wake Forest played baseball there,

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Speaker 1: but was a like fanatical basque college basketball fan. And

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Speaker 1: you grew up in Greensboro or in North Carolina in

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Speaker 1: those days, you know, like the ACC's at its height

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Speaker 1: in the eighties and nineties, and you know, Greensboro was

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Speaker 1: where the SEC Tournament was every year, So like, my

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Speaker 1: first memories of basketball are going to Wake Forest basketball

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Speaker 1: games are going to AC Tournament games in the Greensboro

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Speaker 1: Coliseum and you know that and the backyard and the

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Speaker 1: y m c A and Michael Jordan. That's kind of

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Speaker 1: how I fell in love with it. Okay, so Jordan

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Speaker 1: was your guy when you like when you when you

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Speaker 1: played the match Fry games, that always be Jordan. Oh,

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Speaker 1: Michael Jordan, come fly with me. Video was like it

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Speaker 1: was a VHS in those days. That was like as

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Speaker 1: a kid, I could quote every line in the video,

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Speaker 1: every highlight. I'd go out in the backyard and try

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Speaker 1: to do it. So that that's probably a pretty good

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Speaker 1: picture of my childhood there. I think it's interesting because

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Speaker 1: part of what people struggle to understand when they do

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Speaker 1: the Lebron Jordan comparison is it was just so very different.

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Speaker 1: You know, like he was literally everything everything in the league, right,

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Speaker 1: it was so different. We also didn't have games on

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Speaker 1: as much, so you didn't see everybody, So I guess

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Speaker 1: you saw the Bulls that they'd play like a NBC

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Speaker 1: or you'd see highlights and he was always in the highlights. Right.

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Speaker 1: It was just a very different way of ingesting the

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Speaker 1: whole thing. It's it's like hard to describe to kids

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Speaker 1: now because they can see everything on their phones, right,

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Speaker 1: so they get so much more information and data points,

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Speaker 1: like in art. How how big of a deal he

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Speaker 1: was when we were growing up. Yeah, there's nothing you

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Speaker 1: can compare to it in anything, by the way, like

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Speaker 1: in any industry, Like he's the most famous part person

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Speaker 1: in the whole world, right, I mean like all over

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Speaker 1: the world. Yes, So when you're growing up, your dad

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Speaker 1: went awake. Are you a Carolina guy? Are you a

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Speaker 1: Wake guy? Like? What is you know? Because I hated Carolina? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like well, like it was anything but Carolina because you know,

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Speaker 1: you grew up in Like again, I was in Greensboro

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Speaker 1: until I was born, and when I was ten, I

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Speaker 1: moved my mom to Charlotte. So but growing up in

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Speaker 1: that area in those days, especially like Carolina fans are

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Speaker 1: everywhere and they're so good, right, I mean, you know

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Speaker 1: those are the the eighties and nineties at UNC, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean you know those teams you you played with

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Speaker 1: a lot of those guys over the years. So we

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Speaker 1: hated Carolina. I pulled against Carolina. I was the biggest

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Speaker 1: Wake fan. I wore the number twenty two my entire

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Speaker 1: career because of Randolph Childress, because I was like, he

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Speaker 1: was my favorite player ever, you know, to this day,

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Speaker 1: like he's still the finger in the end in the

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Speaker 1: ACC tournament. It's still the coolest move anyone is ever done. Hey,

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Speaker 1: I was there. You had the game. I was that

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Speaker 1: was there. I was at every single game that tournament.

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Speaker 1: So we would go to the Thursday day and night

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Speaker 1: game in those days was like the eight nine game,

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Speaker 1: and we would watch the we get up. My dad

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Speaker 1: would take us out of school. We'd watch the entire tournament,

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Speaker 1: every single game. What was it like when you're ten,

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Speaker 1: you had to move? Uh yeah, you know, like any

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Speaker 1: kid when you move, you know, that's a tough thing

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Speaker 1: because you don't want to leave your friends and your

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Speaker 1: comfort zone and all that. But then Charlotte became home

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Speaker 1: and I got I dug out a great childhood man

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Speaker 1: like two loving parents, you know. So then I spent

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Speaker 1: middle school and a little bit of high school in Charlotte,

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Speaker 1: and as I got into college, I always kind of

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Speaker 1: resonated as being more from Charlotte because that was my

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Speaker 1: formiable years. But I'd not had a great childhood. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So what was high school basketball like? So I went

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Speaker 1: to went to to prep school in New Hampshire place

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Speaker 1: called Newhampton School. But first we went to we went.

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Speaker 1: Didn't you go to high school first in the area.

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Speaker 1: I started in Charlotte, yep, And you know high school

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Speaker 1: Charlotte Country Day. Okay, So I was there middle school

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Speaker 1: my freshman year, you know, like the varsity, which again

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Speaker 1: in those days, felt like a big deal at the time.

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Speaker 1: And you know, that's kind of where I turned. The

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Speaker 1: corner was between my eighth and ninth grade year. I

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Speaker 1: always it's probably better at football in those days, to

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Speaker 1: be honest, but I was always in love with basketball

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Speaker 1: and going into my like that sum between eighth and

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Speaker 1: ninth grade, that's when I started to really shoot the

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Speaker 1: ball at a high level. My dad never let me

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Speaker 1: shoot threes until after eighth grade because he said I

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Speaker 1: wasn't strong enough to shoot with good form. We got

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Speaker 1: to shoot away, and this is the old school shoot away.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so you'd have the shoot away. So those

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Speaker 1: are like the little rack that like it rolls the

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Speaker 1: ball back to you that you said it's like the

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Speaker 1: gun now, yeah, but it was not electronic and instead

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Speaker 1: of it shooting it back, it went through that like

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Speaker 1: funnel and there was a rack like that came all

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Speaker 1: the way out to like the free throw line and

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Speaker 1: maybe could extend to the three, and you just kind

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Speaker 1: of stand there and grab it off the rack and

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Speaker 1: shoot or you you know, like anybody in the backyard,

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Speaker 1: you find these creative ways let it bounce and catch

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Speaker 1: it off the dribble. But I had I had one,

428
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 1: and I spent the whole summer on it, and that's

429
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 1: kind of where I like really turned the corner and

430
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: started to identify somebody that could really shoot the basketball.

431
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: And I had a really good freshman year. In your

432
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: kind of belief system of making a shooter, is it

433
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 1: reps of the same most basic catch and shoot jump shot?

434
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: Is it varying it? You know two or three things

435
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: because of how the brain works. You know, where you

436
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: do you know, catch and shoot, dribble right, dribble left.

437
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: What's your belief in the right way to rep out shots? Yeah,

438
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 1: for me, it always starts, especially with young players, with

439
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: the fundamentals. You know, and I'm not as like crazy

440
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: ritualistic about everything being perfect, but you know, having a

441
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: great release, having great rhythm, those two things are like

442
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: prerequisite footwork to me, and what you do before the

443
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: catch has always been a really big deal to me

444
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 1: as a coach and was a big deal as a player.

445
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: And then I think once you establish like the habits

446
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: of doing those things, that's when I think, you know,

447
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: you get more advanced and start shooting different ways, you know,

448
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: like it. Maybe he as a kid and early in coaching,

449
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: I was a really big inside foot guy, like you're

450
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: you know, you're stepping in left right if you're a

451
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: right handed shooter, but if you're coming off of anything,

452
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: you're inside foot versus a hop step. I think the

453
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: longer I've coached and the more I've I've watched and learned,

454
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 1: I don't really get into those semantics. My thing is

455
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 1: you got to choose something to be really good at

456
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: it and really consistent with it when it comes to

457
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: fundamental things, you'll love this. Okay, So STEP's sophomore year,

458
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: I go do one of his games and it might

459
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: I actually think it was against Greensboro because at the

460
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 1: time Greensboro was coached. What's the guy he came over

461
00:26:55,480 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: from SMU. Oh, Mike Demant was there then? Mike Demant right,

462
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: And wasn't the meant he was like married to the

463
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: women's coach at SMU. Yes, yes, And so I worked

464
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: for Mike UNCG, not not then though I came after that,

465
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: but I worked for Mike before I got the head

466
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: coaching job at UNCG. So yeah, so here, here's here's

467
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: my story. Okay, so bad shooter talking to arguably the

468
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,479
Speaker 1: greatest shooter to ever play basketball, right, And he actually

469
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: and you know, he was really young at the time,

470
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 1: and he's I mean, steps, I know you've met him,

471
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: is like the nicest human being ever. Right. So he

472
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: we're talking after the game, and he was like, hey,

473
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: anything you saw that you that that you would work

474
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: on if you were me? And I said, look, ye

475
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: mean or obviously your dad's an incredible shooter. You're incredible shooter.

476
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: I just everything you do is left right, even when

477
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 1: you're coming into your right shoulder. And I'm like, do

478
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: you think can you get that off at the higher

479
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 1: level or at the next level. That's my only question

480
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: is everything you do is left right. He's like, well,

481
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of been tinkering with right left.

482
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 1: I just he anyway, like what he said was exactly

483
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 1: what you said, which is like, you know, I kind

484
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: of decided I just want to be great left right,

485
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 1: and I'm actually gonna work on right left like this summer. Whatever.

486
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: It's funny you mentioned that or whatever, but like why

487
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 1: am I giving like why was I giving him any

488
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: sort of advice? But it's interesting. Guy turns out to

489
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: the guy turns out to be the greatest shooter in

490
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: the history of our game. And it was all it

491
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: was all my suggestion, like you should work on right left,

492
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 1: you know, right left into a shot inside put inside put.

493
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: What what do I know? Why did you go to

494
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: James Madison? Well, like like any youngster, right, it was

495
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: a quick decision in the springtime of my fifth year

496
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: high school, and it was the highest level offer. You know,

497
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: they were in the Colonial at the time that the

498
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: Colonial had some success in the tournament. I think George

499
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: Mason had won a game a couple of years before that,

500
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: and I remembered that, and I felt like the Colonial

501
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: was the better league. I was being recruited by the

502
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: Southern Conference and the IVY League and the big salth

503
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: and people like that. And I had schools that recruiting

504
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: me for years, like you know, Mike Young when he

505
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: was an assistant at Wofford recruited me for like a

506
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: year and a half. But I chose the school that

507
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: I thought was the highest level, probably for the wrong reasons.

508
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: And I don't say that negatively towards James Madison, because

509
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: James Madison's a wonderful place. I loved my time there.

510
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: I loved Harrisonburg, Virginia. But I did make a rash

511
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: decision when I when I made a college decision, what okay,

512
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: so what you're at prep? Who is what prep? Did

513
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: you get to? I went to New Hampton School in

514
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: New Hampshire, So who was on your team? I was

515
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: there for three years, so gosh. I played with the

516
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: the guy that people would know the most as Rashott McCants.

517
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: He was my We were au teammates and great friends,

518
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: like best friends, you know, through high school. And then

519
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: he came to New Hampton after I'd already been there

520
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: a year, and we were roommates there for two years.

521
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: And of course he went on to be a great

522
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: player Carolina and uh, you know, lottery pick in the

523
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: whole nine. But I also played with the guy there

524
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: named Bernard Robinson, who played at Michigan, was four or

525
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: five six year NBA player, tremendous talent. Uh, Mike Roberts

526
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: my assistant here. I mean there's a I mean, there's

527
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: so many guys. I probably played with twenty some Division

528
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: one players in three years there. We had so many

529
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,239
Speaker 1: really good players. There's so many preps now that are

530
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: not really preps, right, they're just basketball schools. Who was yours?

531
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: What was your experience? New Hampton's a great school and

532
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: and honestly was a life changing experience for me. It's uh,

533
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: it's up in the White Mountains and New Hampshire. You know,

534
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: I'm coming from the south. So the winner took some

535
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: adjusting then all the snow, but just tremendously carrying people.

536
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: I had a high school coach that was a great

537
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: mentor in my life, Jamie Arsenal. He was a great coach,

538
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: a great motivator, but also just a great person, liked

539
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: had a great family, would would make us feel as

540
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: players like we were a part of his family. And

541
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: then I'm you know, you're a junkie like I am.

542
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: Now you put me somewhere where I can walk out

543
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: of my dorm and get into the gym twenty four

544
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: hours a day, I was going to be really really happy.

545
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: So from a academic standpoint and an environment, my parents

546
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: were really happy because they knew I was in a

547
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: great place. And from a basketball standpoint, I was really

548
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: happy because I could work out as much as I

549
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: wanted and I was around a bunch of other players

550
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: that were trying to do the same thing I was.

551
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: It was neat to go somewhere and be around thirteen

552
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: other guys that were trying to play college basketball. You

553
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: go to James Mason, who's your head coach? I played

554
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: for Sherman Dillard when I was Okay, Yeah, who's a

555
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: great guy. Did a great job there. And you know,

556
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: now I was with fran at Iowa. Yeah he's been

557
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: a fan forever. Okay. So what was freshman year at

558
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: and for the Dukes? Like, look, you know what it

559
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: was like most freshman years. It was like up and down.

560
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: You know. I had some great moments, you know, I

561
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: think I scored in double figures a bunch of times

562
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: and had some great games where I hit a bunch

563
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: of shots and hit a bunch of threes and felt like,

564
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: you know, I was having a good year, and then

565
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: I had some moments where I stunk, you know, and

566
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: we had a team that was gifted but was up

567
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: and down, and probably by the end felt like it

568
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: was a disappointing year. I think we won fifteen sixteen,

569
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: seventeen games, but could have won twenty plus, you know,

570
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: But I had great teammates, still lifelong friends. I will

571
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: say this Doug on senior night, and it's one of

572
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: my favorite memories from college basketball. We were playing against

573
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: VCU and they were they were really good, and this

574
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: was Jeff Capel's team, and I hit two free throws

575
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: with two seconds left down one to win the game.

576
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: So that was kind of like a highlight of the year,

577
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: was top That was your last home game at James

578
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: The last home game? Yeah? Okay, so how did it?

579
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: How did it work in terms of of leaving you know,

580
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: now for shame of the portal back then, you know,

581
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: yes you go mob with your coach, but give me

582
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: the progression of you lose in the Colonial Tournament and

583
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: what happens. It wasn't one of those things where it

584
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: was like I was going to leave, you know, but

585
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: as the spring went on, Uh, there was some stuff

586
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: going on in the program at the time with within

587
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: the locker room, and I just got to the point,

588
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: I think late in April where I just said, you

589
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: know what, like I've spent my entire life trying to

590
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: get to college basketball. Like again, it was like a

591
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: dream to be a divisional player, and you know this,

592
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: this isn't the kind of environment that I want to,

593
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: you know, being for my whole career. I want to

594
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,239
Speaker 1: I'm looking for something a little different. And so late

595
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: in the spring I made a choice to transfer and

596
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: lighted some things that were going on, and you know,

597
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: I honestly was looking doug to go to either Columbia

598
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: or pen. So Fran Dumpy was at Penn and Joe

599
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: Jones was at Columbia. One of my assistant coaches from

600
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: high school was an assistant at Columbia. You know, I

601
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: visited both places. I don't think Fran really wanted me

602
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: that bad, So I think we could sense that a

603
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: little bit because at the time he really had Pen

604
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: rolling and Joe had just got the job at Columbia

605
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: and he wanted me badly, And I really wanted to

606
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 1: go there, and during that process and I in my head,

607
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: I kind of decided I was going to Columbia. Roy

608
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 1: Williams got the job at North Carolina. He left Kansas

609
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 1: to go to Carolina. I knew his assistant, Joe Holiday,

610
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: because they were recruiting Rashad McCants while I was in

611
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 1: prep school, and they would call my phone because you know,

612
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: this is when cell phones just came out, so Rashad

613
00:34:58,280 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: did not have a cell phone and I did, so

614
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 1: all these coaches would call my phone to recruit Rashad,

615
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: and some of them would be nice enough to talk

616
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 1: to me. Most of them would just ask for Rashad.

617
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: But Joe Holiday, who's like one of the great guys

618
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: ever and another mentor in my life, he'd always, you know,

619
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: he's calling my phone to recruit somebody, so he would

620
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 1: actually take time and talk to me, and we got

621
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: to chop it up quite a bit. So when they

622
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: got the job at Carolina, I don't know how they

623
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: got the information, but they called me said out they

624
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: heard I was transferred, and they wanted to talk to

625
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: me about a non scholarship role coming there. And I

626
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: went to visit Carolina with my dad in May, and

627
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: you know, Coach Williams spent two hours with my dad

628
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: and I in his office and tried to close me,

629
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: and I resisted because I thought I wanted to go

630
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: to Columbia, And after a couple of days, I kind

631
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 1: of came to my senses and chose to take the

632
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: path to go be a non scholarship player Carolina. And honestly, Doug,

633
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 1: the main reason was that I knew I wanted to coach,

634
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 1: and Coach Williams was adamant that he couldn't promise anything

635
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: my plane perspective, but that if I wanted to be

636
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 1: a basketball coach that he would help me and that

637
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: Carolina would be a great place for me. And that

638
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: was kind of the defining moment my decision. Did he

639
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: help you? Whatever he promised me that in my father

640
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: that day, in that two hours we spent in his office,

641
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: And now that I've been through year one in a

642
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: program like this, the fact that he spent two hours

643
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: of me still blows my mind to this day because

644
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: I wasn't that good. But whatever he promised me, then

645
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: he has followed through times a thousand. I mean, how

646
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 1: much he's helped me, Like I said, I have tremendous parents,

647
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: like my mom and dad are tremendous people, and if

648
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: nobody's been more important in my life than them. But

649
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 1: outside of that, you know, his impact on my life

650
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 1: would is it's so great, it's hard to put into words.

651
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: So he's helped me times a thousand. In fact, I

652
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,959
Speaker 1: talked to him two hours ago, so he's been great.

653
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: It's interesting because my experience is the same with my

654
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 1: college coach, and even coach Mcloud's obviously not here, but

655
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: Fran McCaffrey who recruited me in an under dame. I

656
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: think it's one of the things that we do a

657
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: bad job of helping maybe the media or kind of

658
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: the general narrative understand about college athletics, Like you get

659
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: more than like, well, you get get a degree, you

660
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: get the paper. Yes, that's important, there's a litany of

661
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: jobs you can have unless you have that paper. But

662
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 1: more than anything, like you usually get a father figure. Hey,

663
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: you get kind of a family, right, like a basketball family,

664
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: and they will help you out. And one we diminished

665
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: that with every transfer. You and I are both transfers,

666
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: but it is there's there's a there's a value there

667
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: which I don't think people understand. You're in the Carolina family,

668
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,280
Speaker 1: You're in the Carolina basketball family, You're in Roy Williams family,

669
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: as well as you're part of all the lives of

670
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: the players who you played with. Like that's a really

671
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: powerful thing that we do a bad job of helping

672
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 1: people understand the true value of the experience. That's so

673
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,320
Speaker 1: well said, no question, And being a part of that

674
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: hasn't just helped me in life, Like it's impacted my life, right,

675
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: It's impacted who I am and what I believe in

676
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: and in a really positive way. And like like Coach

677
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: Williams has as much to do with that as anybody.

678
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: But it's much broader than one person because of the

679
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: things that you're a part of. As you mentioned that,

680
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: well said, what what was the moment, like when what

681
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: happened first? Did you start first or get on scholarship first? No,

682
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 1: so I said, you know, you know those days you transfer,

683
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: you got to sit as you know when you want

684
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: to noted the invoke clumb State. So my first year there,

685
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: I'm practicing every day, you know, and you aren't allowed

686
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 1: to travel. If you were a transfer, I'm sure you

687
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,879
Speaker 1: went through the same thing. No, No, I said junior,

688
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: I said, a junior college. I didn't want to do

689
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 1: all that's right, I forgot that. You told me I

690
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: got the AA at the junior call and I could

691
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,399
Speaker 1: transfer right away. So you didn't do the sit out year.

692
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 1: I sat out, but I sat out. What I did

693
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: was I went to Golden West College. Tom McClusky, who

694
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: was my high school coach. My freshman year, I was

695
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 1: a coach there, so he let me practice with the team,

696
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: train with the team. Whatever I want to do, I

697
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: had to make. Like part of the deal was like, hey, listen,

698
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 1: you gotta you don't have to like lift with us

699
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: and stuff, but you got to be a practice every

700
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: time we have practice. And then I helped him coach

701
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: like I was like his third assistant, and it was

702
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: he let me draw plays and things like that. But

703
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: that's what I did instead of sitting out. So you're

704
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,359
Speaker 1: sitting out all right, practicing every day and the only

705
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: thing I wasn't a part of was travel because of

706
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: the rules at the time. And I'm guard and Raymond

707
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: Felton and practice every day and to this day, like

708
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: that was my sit out year. So red shirt freshman year,

709
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: whatever then the following years, my sophomore year we went

710
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: in the National Championship, and then my junior year is

711
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: when I ended up starting and having a personally a

712
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: great year. We finished like tenth in the country. Well

713
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: go back for two years, my set out year and

714
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: then my first year eligible at Carolina's. My first two

715
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: years I played against Raymond Feldon every single day, and

716
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: without that experience, I never play a significant minute at Carolina.

717
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: Like it was the best thing that ever happened to

718
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: me as a player because he was so good and

719
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: like he I mean, he had this incredible long NBA career.

720
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,399
Speaker 1: Like sometimes guys that don't become all stars don't get

721
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 1: the kind of like attention. But like you and I

722
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: know as players, you play over ten years in the

723
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 1: NBA at point guard, like that is that's unbelievable, right,

724
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: like shit, you play a day in the NBA at

725
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: his size, our size, Like come on, man, there's only

726
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: four hundred and fifty jobs in the world, you know,

727
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: And this guy played a pretinue and I can't tell

728
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: you how good he was at that age. He was

729
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: so athletic and fast and played hard every day. He

730
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,479
Speaker 1: really was like the heart and soul of my first

731
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: two years there up the team, but having to figure

732
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: out how to compete with him is the best thing

733
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: that ever happened to me. Because I couldn't stay in

734
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,800
Speaker 1: front of him when I first got there, I couldn't

735
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: handle the ball around him consistently and make good decisions.

736
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 1: But by you know that, like midway through that first

737
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: year I was there, I started figuring out a function

738
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 1: on the court with a player that good, and I

739
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: really credit him to being the reason that I was

740
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: able to defend at a really high level when I

741
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: got my chance a couple of years later. But I

742
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: got a scholarship to answer your question the second year

743
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 1: I was there. So my second year at Carolina, my

744
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: sophomore year, they rewarded me with the scholarship, even though

745
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 1: I didn't have a real significant role in that team.

746
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: What was it like to play against Wake? Well? Like

747
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: I was a kid growing up as a Wake fan,

748
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: but after being at Carolina for a week, like yeah,

749
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: like it like I felt like my dad had just

750
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: brainwashed me my whole childhood. Like it's like, oh, I

751
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: saw it. Like you hated them too, You're like why

752
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: did I hate them? Like this place is so uh

753
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: so No, by that point, it didn't matter. I'll tell

754
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,720
Speaker 1: you though, Like I really wanted to go to Davidson

755
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: out of high school and they, you know, coach McKillop

756
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 1: recruited me, but they never offered me, and they kept

757
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: coming back and watching, and that's where I wanted to

758
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: go to school. Like I you know again, I grew

759
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: up in the area in Charlotte, and and so we

760
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 1: played Davidson. You know, when I was in college, I

761
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 1: felt like that was my Super Bowl. I wanted to

762
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 1: beat them so badly because I felt like they'd passed

763
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 1: up on me that type of thing, winning a national championship.

764
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 1: What are you your personal memories? Man, it it's like

765
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: a blur still to this day. Like that run in

766
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: two thousand and five, that was my second year there.

767
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: I was eligible, played sparingly, you know, at best. I mean, gosh,

768
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: one time, coach Williams hadn't put me in a game

769
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,479
Speaker 1: in three or four games and we're playing at Duke

770
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 1: and at the end of the half on dtill in

771
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:02,919
Speaker 1: the last possession, you know, at the end of the half,

772
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: and he like sulves me in to play a defensive

773
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: possession I'm like checking into the duke game like nervouses

774
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: can be. But I didn't play much yet. I got

775
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: thrown into some games like that. But no, you're still

776
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 1: processing and learning and watching. You know what's interesting about

777
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: coach Williams is I mean, like you and I could

778
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: okay first time out, He's gonna trap out of the

779
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,760
Speaker 1: time out, like we know what's coming. But it works.

780
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 1: And offensive philosophy is pretty simple, right, Carolina, secondary into

781
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: and you have a couple of sets. But outside of that,

782
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 1: move the ball open man gets kind of gets the

783
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: ball and he does kind of have reputation wise. It's

784
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 1: and I remember that team. I remember that team in

785
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 1: OH five being kind of one of his first that

786
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 1: didn't have a super deep bench right and he gets

787
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,720
Speaker 1: himself in trouble sometimes that Carolina things seven too many guys.

788
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: But as you said, you went there to be a coach.

789
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: Anything that you thought you remember, you recall upon that

790
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,399
Speaker 1: you bring back even to this day as a coach.

791
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: This would be a whole podcast, Like answering that question

792
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: being a whole podcast, Like that's that's actually the meat

793
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: of life. Like no offense to your team now, like

794
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 1: this is that this is the ship that nobody talks about, right,

795
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 1: is the stuff that you're processing and now that you're

796
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: able to put into play. I mean, Doug, Like every

797
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 1: single day, every single day I do things as a

798
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 1: head coach at Cincinnati, and I think about Coach Williams

799
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: and his approach and why he did what we did

800
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: and what I learned there. And I would say that

801
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: the foundational values or the foundation of what I believe

802
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:42,320
Speaker 1: as a basketball coach, that's directly derived from my time

803
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 1: playing for him, spending time around him, working around him,

804
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 1: like trying to learn from him. Like that that's the

805
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: foundation who I am as a coach, and I draw

806
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 1: from like those moments around him, not just playing, but

807
00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 1: since then every single day I remember because I was

808
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: thinking about coaching at that time, and I remember being

809
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 1: in time outs during my red shirts here there and

810
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: just listening to him and being kind of amazed, like

811
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: how do he remember what happened six possessions ago? You know?

812
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,919
Speaker 1: Or like like it's so funny though, Like I caught

813
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 1: myself doing that yesterday. Yesterday I was coaching like my

814
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 1: son whatever, and I was like, you know, you gotta

815
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: help down on their help the helper and there, and

816
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 1: the kids they just can't do it. They don't have

817
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: the same brain that we have. We're talking two possessions ago,

818
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: Like no, no, I didn't buy boxed out, Like no,

819
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: the possession before that. I have no idea what we're

820
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: talking about. Coaching. I remember sitting there and being like

821
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 1: he's on it, you know, and it's like things like that.

822
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: But it wasn't just like it was little stuff. It

823
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: was big stuff. I thought he cultivated team better than

824
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: anybody I've ever been around. How there's no one way.

825
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,839
Speaker 1: It was just constant, like he's constantly preaching to play

826
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: the right way, to share the ball, like you just said,

827
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,320
Speaker 1: like make the easy past, to not take a bad shot,

828
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 1: to do your job, whatever your job was, you know.

829
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: Like he was relentless about the things that he believed,

830
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: and by the way the things he believed, you know,

831
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,399
Speaker 1: they win right. And he was relentless about buying into

832
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: the team and making sacrifices. And there's no one way,

833
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: like you know, you go to style of play, like

834
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: he played so fast his whole career, and everybody always asks,

835
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 1: how does he get him to play that fast? It's

836
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: like go watch practice, like it's relentless. There's no drill.

837
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,240
Speaker 1: It's just everything they do is like this. Every practice

838
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 1: he emphasizes it on every single possession. I think he's

839
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: the best rebounding coach in college basketball history. I mean,

840
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: go go look at the numbers. It's staggering, right, I

841
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 1: Mean they leave the country in rebounding margin, Like almost

842
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: every year he coaches or their top two or three

843
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: or whatever. Well, why he doesn't do these great rebounding drills.

844
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 1: He just coaches rebounding every single possession, recruits to it,

845
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 1: values it so like he just he knew he had

846
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: an identity, knw who he was as a coach, knew

847
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 1: what he believed in, and he relentlessly pursued it. And

848
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 1: I always thought it was funny because I like, he

849
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 1: was the head coach at Kansas when I'm growing up.

850
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: So I'm watching him in press conferences or you're watching

851
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 1: him get interviewed and you're going, it's the nicest guy.

852
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 1: And then you get out in practicing. You whoever that

853
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 1: guy was on TV, that's not the guy I'm playing for. Like,

854
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: he he was like really demanding, incredibly competitive. Maybe he's

855
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 1: competitive to anybody I've ever been around. Now he was

856
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,439
Speaker 1: big on short practices in conference play, right, like that's

857
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: the again, I'm just going, I'm not. I didn't play

858
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: for him, so I remember like he was big on

859
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 1: saving your legs. But it was also like that's how

860
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: he's been. He was that indefatigable recruiter, right like early

861
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 1: practice hour and a half, hit the private jet, and

862
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: be at somebody's game that that night. So we're the

863
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 1: practice of shorter long. I think it got a little

864
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: shorter after I left, you know. I think that O

865
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: five team, and that team was together for more than

866
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: two years, most of those guys, but like I was

867
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: there for two years. So the two years that I

868
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: was with that OH five team, you know, he was

869
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,240
Speaker 1: coming in and trying to set a tone and change

870
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: the culture and change the approach. I don't remember anything

871
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 1: being short or easy like we had. It was a fight.

872
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: So I'll give you. I'll give you a couple of

873
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 1: lady set in coaching things that I recognize to this day.

874
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 1: And I struggled with what I would do in a

875
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 1: college setting in a youth setting is a little different.

876
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 1: So his philosophy is a little different. Like he would

877
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,799
Speaker 1: define who we're going to and we can be playing

878
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: Texas or Texas San Antonio. We're playing Texas and Antonio

879
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 1: and there's seven minutes left to go in the game

880
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,839
Speaker 1: and we're up thirty five. We're running something for Adrian

881
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 1: Peterson Desnmason and they're open, they're catching, they're shooting the basketball.

882
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: Why because when we played Texas, we played the University

883
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: of Kansas, we play Oklahoma. Damn it, Desnamason. Adrian Peterson

884
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 1: got a how to give us twenty right, like you

885
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: guys kind of get in where you get in. Anyway,

886
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: that was his belief was that based upon what he

887
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: would see in observing practice, what was kind of the

888
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:14,479
Speaker 1: obvious pecking order in games was he would he didn't

889
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: wait for roles to find themselves like he would define

890
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: them for you based upon how he coached you, how

891
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: he played you and whatever. And he was one of

892
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 1: those guys where he would pick who's who were going

893
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,359
Speaker 1: to and then we'd score. And what I pushed him

894
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 1: for was kind of what coach Williams, which is pushing

895
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 1: the basketball. And you know, when I got there, he

896
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 1: had the reputation of playing slower and he'd tell you, like,

897
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:36,879
Speaker 1: I play every play, But why would I play fast

898
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:38,439
Speaker 1: if we don't have a point guard and we're gonna

899
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: throw it in the stands and be back on defense.

900
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 1: You know. So the years he had met or Brooks Thompson,

901
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: you know, we scored eighty five a game. Years he didn't,

902
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: you know, he scored sixty five a game. Like that's

903
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: kind of coaching one on one. And then we had

904
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 1: this great argument. It was like one of my first

905
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: days of practice, and we used to run. It was

906
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: a it was a drive and seal drill. So back

907
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: then we used to post double seal rotate work on

908
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 1: every day. Also, drive the guy to the help and

909
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 1: the baseline. That guy walls off your reverse pivot and

910
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 1: you're out. You're sprinting and identifying. We can pick up

911
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 1: in the scrambling right, drive and seal. So but before

912
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 1: we got to drive and seal, you do one on one,

913
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 1: like one on one on the sideline. Right. So I

914
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 1: was like, coach, are we forcing baseline? No, we're not

915
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: letting go baseline. Also we're forcing They're like, oh no,

916
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: do not let him get in the paint. Like, coach,

917
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:32,760
Speaker 1: if I'm not supposed to send baseline, I'm not supposed

918
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 1: to send in the middle, like where am I supposed

919
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: to send him? And he goes a college man, he

920
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 1: needs to guards man, I don't know where. The only

921
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 1: going place you're gonna send you is to the bench.

922
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 1: You can't guard his ass, right like, so then the

923
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 1: other guys come up and they grab you, like, look,

924
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: we got to help to the baseline. Just don't open

925
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 1: the gate, right, But that was that was his kind

926
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: of defensive philosophy, was like dude, the college man and

927
00:50:55,600 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 1: guards man, but genuinely we forced base Coach Brown, Larry

928
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: Brown's been great to me as well. He's he's he's

929
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 1: he's the best. But he he says all the time,

930
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: you know, if you could just guard your guy, you

931
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: don't have the hell, you know, just like make your

932
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,839
Speaker 1: guys guard their guard their guy, like then there's no help.

933
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 1: And then well, you know, coach, you're probably right, and

934
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,879
Speaker 1: you know, like Alan Iverson and Snow, those guys didn't

935
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 1: need any help when they wanted to guard, right. But shoot,

936
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 1: we we got to get some help sometimes. So I

937
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 1: gotta give me some help. What was it like to

938
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: go from a recruited walk on right, he's getting his

939
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,320
Speaker 1: ass kicked in practice to your junior year. Now of

940
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,919
Speaker 1: a sudden, like you're blowing up, You're having a great

941
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 1: personal year. What was What was that like for you? Personally?

942
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 1: It was incredible? You know I I I had like

943
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 1: a pretty strong work ethic. Maybe maybe I was overboard

944
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: if you ask people from those days, like I probably

945
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:02,800
Speaker 1: did too much. What is too much on a daily basis?

946
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: I just was in the gym too much, right, I

947
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 1: was on my feet too much. Or I like I

948
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,760
Speaker 1: wanted to do anything I possibly could. I was obsessed,

949
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: which is a coach? Or I like kids that are

950
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 1: like that, right, Like we were trying to recruit players

951
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 1: that have that type of approach. But so I put

952
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 1: you know, life into it, hard and soul into it,

953
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: so to get that validation. I think that's like that

954
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 1: was really important for me as a as a college student.

955
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: Was that the idea that if you really really keep

956
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: working for something, eventually it's going to happen. Right, And

957
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 1: it didn't happen early, Like my second year at Carolina

958
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 1: was really hard. We ended up winning the national championship.

959
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: So now you look back and it was this incredible experience,

960
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 1: But I was really frustrated personally that year because I

961
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 1: wanted to play so bad and I wasn't playing, so

962
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 1: it didn't happen right away. But as you mentioned, my

963
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 1: third year there, you know, broke through and certainly was fortunate,

964
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 1: you know that, you know, we won the national championship.

965
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 1: Four guys get drafted and the lottery, you know, three

966
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 1: seniors graduate. I think j R. Smith was supposed to

967
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: come in and played well in McDonald's game and go,

968
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 1: like a bunch of stuff. I did the McDonald's game

969
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: and he went from being a guy going to Carolina

970
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: to a first und pick. So like a bunch of

971
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 1: stuff worked out that all of a sudden, you know,

972
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 1: I'm in this position where I had an opportunity but

973
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 1: actually having it work. I just I think that gave

974
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 1: me a lot of confidence going forward in life that

975
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:30,239
Speaker 1: if you just kind of stay with something, you know

976
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: eventually it's going to happen. But I don't know if

977
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,800
Speaker 1: people understand how difficult that is. Within the same program,

978
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: you know, that's really really hard to do because there's

979
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 1: always going to be people, especially players, who is like, oh,

980
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 1: he's a walk on again, Msconship, He's he's a walk on.

981
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: He's a local kid, he's a walk on he's a shooter,

982
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,799
Speaker 1: and like like, to break, you have to break through,

983
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 1: not just the respect factor of opponents like you can

984
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: do that, it's almost harder in your own locker room

985
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,879
Speaker 1: to like, yeah, I barely played last year, but now

986
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:01,439
Speaker 1: I'm the guy and I deserve this. I mean, I'm

987
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: sure they all saw your work ethic, but there's still

988
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: always going to be people who I mean, Carolina recruits

989
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 1: dude after dude after dude after dude, all American, So

990
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:11,320
Speaker 1: for you to break through in the same program is

991
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 1: even more impressive. Well thanks you, I think again, Like,

992
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 1: looking back at it, I think when I decided to

993
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 1: go to school there, it was you understand what you're

994
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 1: walking into, that you're every year the best players in

995
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: the country are going to be coming in here. And

996
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 1: coach was very honest about that, you know when we

997
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 1: were talking. But I made a decision that I was

998
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:34,800
Speaker 1: going to I was going to knock back down. I

999
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: believed I could play at that level and I was

1000
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:38,319
Speaker 1: going to try to do everything I could every day.

1001
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: So even though now I look back as a coach

1002
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 1: and no, I wasn't very good, you couldn't tell me

1003
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 1: that I wasn't as good as the guys I was

1004
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 1: competing against in the time, Like I thought I was

1005
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: as good as Raymond felt, even though I wasn't even

1006
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 1: the same stratosphere or when ty Lawson came in, like

1007
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 1: I believed eternally and so there, I probably had a

1008
00:54:56,440 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 1: healthy confidence or swag at that time. Just but I

1009
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 1: do believe because of the work I was putting in.

1010
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 1: I know, I know you gotta go, but I want

1011
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 1: want to I want to ask you this. Okay, so

1012
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: we're talking roughly ten fifteen years later. If I would

1013
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 1: have told you that this all, this success at Greensboro

1014
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: and now being the head coach Cincinnati, me had a

1015
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 1: bunch of different options. I'm where to choose for your

1016
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:24,879
Speaker 1: next You know you you were off your jobs several

1017
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 1: several times over. What would your reaction to your success

1018
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:33,839
Speaker 1: as a coach be like if I would have told

1019
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 1: you that when you're a college player. Wow, it's a

1020
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:41,800
Speaker 1: it's a great question. I'm trying to answer it. Really honestly,

1021
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I think I'll give you

1022
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:49,959
Speaker 1: what I think the real answer is. As a college player,

1023
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,799
Speaker 1: I was probably you know, ignorant enough or naive enough.

1024
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I'm gonna get I'm you know, I'm

1025
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 1: gonna get into coaching and have a lot of success

1026
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 1: as I got into coaching at an early age and

1027
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 1: actually realized how difficult this is and how small. I mean,

1028
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:13,879
Speaker 1: we're in a small niche business, right, I mean, there's

1029
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:17,320
Speaker 1: only three hundred and fifty some jobs Division one in

1030
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 1: the entire country. I think after my first two or

1031
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:24,319
Speaker 1: three years in coaching, I my perspective changed. I got

1032
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 1: a lot more respect for what this is. And if

1033
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 1: you'd asked me what I thought, then I would say, Man,

1034
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:32,800
Speaker 1: I'd be the happiest person in the world knowing this

1035
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:34,800
Speaker 1: was going to happen, because that means I'm living my

1036
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 1: dream out. And my dream has always been to be

1037
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 1: a head coach and to coach somewhere where there's tradition

1038
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 1: and history and it really really matters. And now I'm

1039
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 1: doing that. I mean, you know, I had this great

1040
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 1: playing career in North Carolina in a place like that.

1041
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:52,919
Speaker 1: Now I'm coaching at a place like that, and that's

1042
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 1: that's kind of always been the dream. And not only

1043
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:59,840
Speaker 1: that's somewhere that like identifies with, you know, my values

1044
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 1: got I think it's Cincinnati there's just a lot of

1045
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 1: share values between what I believe, how I believe the

1046
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:07,919
Speaker 1: game and a program should be approached, and what people

1047
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 1: hear value. So yeah, I got out of said, man,

1048
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 1: I'm living my dream now in college. Who knows, because

1049
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 1: I was a dumb college student, but who knows? You know,

1050
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 1: you know, I would say a lot of people would

1051
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 1: think west Miller would recruit other west Millers, right, guys,

1052
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 1: But I actually think and you tell again, tell me

1053
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong. But you talk about the fundamentals of

1054
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 1: who you are as a person, you can recruit other

1055
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 1: west Millers. They just may not be you know, five

1056
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 1: ten kids from from Carolina. Right. It's the It's the

1057
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: intense focus and desire and the gym rat the toughness

1058
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: that you had. Is that fair? Is that? Are those

1059
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: the things you look at when you're trying to recruit

1060
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 1: a player. Yes, I want another west Miller, but I

1061
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 1: don't necessarily need another west Miller in terms of size.

1062
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: I don't want to recruit aybody that's built like me.

1063
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 1: I don't know. You shoot like, if you shoot pass

1064
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 1: like you're there's a there's definitely an intrinsic value there,

1065
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, so I don't. I definitely don't try

1066
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: to recruit my physical dimensions. But it's a great question.

1067
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 1: What we value in recruiting is edge. Like we want

1068
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: guys with some serious competitive edge, and you know how

1069
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 1: you can see it when you see it, So like

1070
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 1: that's the one. We want guys that absolutely love basketball,

1071
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 1: that are like truly passionate about it, and we want

1072
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 1: dudes that love to work at it, that like love

1073
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 1: the day to day process of growing and getting better.

1074
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 1: And certainly we're looking for, you know, people that value

1075
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,000
Speaker 1: education and all that. I'm not diminishing that, but if

1076
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 1: we're just talking hoops, that's and I think that aligns

1077
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 1: with the way that I thought about it as a

1078
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 1: player in the way that I still think about it

1079
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 1: as a coach. And you know this, we're all better

1080
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 1: coaches when we have shared values with the people around us.

1081
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 1: And so yeah, we're looking for that. We got a

1082
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,360
Speaker 1: kid committed to us right now. He signed so I

1083
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 1: can speak about him publicly. His names Gisel James. He's

1084
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 1: Edrin James's son. Yeah, he's a top fifty point guard

1085
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 1: in the class. I think he's the best point guard

1086
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 1: in the DAN class. And he is the toughest dude.

1087
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,959
Speaker 1: He's the hardest worker. He has a crazy competitive edge,

1088
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 1: and so like you're right now, he's six two and

1089
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 1: you know, really explosive and strong and got got good dimensions.

1090
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 1: So he looks nothing like me, but but shared values

1091
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 1: in terms of the other step. That's right. I resonate

1092
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: with the way that he approaches it, and when I

1093
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 1: see him play, I go I want to coach him.

1094
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 1: It was that significant. So I don't know if it's

1095
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 1: always about me as a player, but definitely the way

1096
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 1: that I think about basketball. There is one element though

1097
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 1: to taking this job outside of the Carolina region is

1098
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 1: you're revered in Carolina. You're revered. You know, I did

1099
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 1: the game in Greensboro, Like you're revered in Greensboro, You're

1100
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 1: vered in Carolina, so you have equity there. Now you

1101
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 1: go first head coaching job kind of out of your

1102
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 1: traditional market where you have all that equity, not just

1103
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 1: as a coach, as a player and as a human being.

1104
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: What's that like to walk into Jim's and like, look,

1105
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 1: ay you Jim's. Obviously everybody knows you've been doing this

1106
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 1: a long time, but to meet people and you don't

1107
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 1: have that saying, oh, West Miller, I remember him, Carolina,

1108
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:18,440
Speaker 1: you know, self made dude. Yeah, I don't know if

1109
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 1: I thought about it exactly that way. But what is

1110
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:25,959
Speaker 1: There's two ways I'd answer that. First, what's neat about

1111
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 1: being the head coach at Cincinnati is when you're in

1112
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 1: this position, it's a big deal. It doesn't matter who

1113
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 1: you are. When you're the head coach at Cincinnati in

1114
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 1: this area, it's a big deal. And so you're not

1115
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:40,919
Speaker 1: known per se because of you know, like you said,

1116
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 1: what you did as a player or what you did

1117
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 1: you know growing up in that area. You're known because

1118
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 1: of the position that you're in, and that's that's different.

1119
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 1: But that also gives me great respect for where I

1120
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 1: am and what I'm doing. But the part that has

1121
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 1: been a transition is I moved somewhere that I've never been.

1122
01:00:58,240 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 1: I've never been to the city of Cincinnati when I

1123
01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 1: took the job here. Now, I had the shorts off

1124
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 1: East Bay, like you know, I love Nick Van Exel,

1125
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 1: and like I had the shorts off East Bay growing up.

1126
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 1: And the young people don't even know what East Bay is,

1127
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 1: but like they still haven't. They even have it, Okay,

1128
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 1: so they still haven't. Still can order shoes out there,

1129
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 1: Still can order you're out there. I had the shorts

1130
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 1: like I wasn't. I knew Cincinnati basketball, but I've never

1131
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 1: been in this community and didn't have family in this community,

1132
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 1: friends in this community. So moving somewhere where you know

1133
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 1: absolutely nobody, you don't know any neighborhood, you know, you

1134
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 1: have no frame or reference for what's around you. That

1135
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 1: was uncomfortable, but in a really healthy way, like it

1136
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 1: gave me energy. Actually it was. Sometimes it's great to

1137
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 1: step out of your comfort zone a little bit. I do.

1138
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,439
Speaker 1: I do think that's where you really grow and get better. Yeah,

1139
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 1: it's a last thing. I know, you gotta go. And

1140
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 1: again we said last things sometimes Xavier, since that crosstown rivalry,

1141
01:01:54,120 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 1: comparing contrast that to Duke Carolina, first things, for it's

1142
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 1: more intense, and I know people like that are Duke

1143
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 1: and Carolina people or think I'm crazy when I say that,

1144
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not. I'm not just selling it because

1145
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 1: I'm the head coach at Cincinnati. One of our players

1146
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: walked Josh on the podcast, Okay, give me till minutes,

1147
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 1: the open door policy with the players. But then he's

1148
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 1: gonna be a good one. But but no, people think

1149
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 1: I'm crazy. I'm serious. We walked into Sentas last year

1150
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 1: and I'm walking, I'm sitting in the locker room waiting,

1151
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 1: and it is so loud in the locker room. I'm like, wow,

1152
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 1: this is wild, and I walk out of the tunnel.

1153
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: I don't think I could hear anything the entire game.

1154
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 1: Our players couldn't hear each other. In time outs, they

1155
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 1: couldn't hear me. I couldn't make a play call. And

1156
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 1: and it's it's nasty. It's only a mile or so away.

1157
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:55,439
Speaker 1: Uh So it's a more intense thing, I think because

1158
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 1: it's even closer Duke and Carolina or eight miles apart.

1159
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:04,320
Speaker 1: But Durham and Chapel Hill are different towns, different communities, right.

1160
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 1: Cincinnati and Zavier are in the same city, you know,

1161
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 1: And this is a prideful sports city. And so I

1162
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 1: think it's neat because we're the majority in this city.

1163
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 1: I mean, this is we're state school there. This is

1164
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:20,720
Speaker 1: a bearcat town. Xavier fans are a minority because it's

1165
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 1: a smaller school. They won't like me saying that, but

1166
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 1: it's the truth. But they all allow and they are passionate,

1167
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 1: and I was blown away with it. I really was.

1168
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 1: We didn't play well, so it could have been even better,

1169
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 1: but I was blown away. Now, the biggest difference in

1170
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 1: the rivalry is the Duke Carolina game gets so much

1171
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 1: more national attention and exposure. Like that's probably the biggest difference.

1172
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 1: I think this one's maybe more heated and more intense.

1173
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:47,439
Speaker 1: All right, listen, you gotta go, you gotta player waiting

1174
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 1: for you. I have open door policy because I have

1175
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 1: a bunch more stuff I want to get to. But

1176
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:56,160
Speaker 1: so far this has been amazing. Best of luck. Obviously,

1177
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 1: I know you've got Mali as well, So thanks so

1178
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 1: much for joining us. Safe travels. We'll catch up whenever

1179
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 1: you're available. Thanks Doug. You know, growing up, I was

1180
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:06,920
Speaker 1: a huge fan because there weren't many guys. There weren't

1181
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 1: many short white guys playing high We got, we got.

1182
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:12,920
Speaker 1: That's the podcast we should do, Okay, is we just

1183
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:15,080
Speaker 1: go through all the because I don't know if you remember.

1184
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 1: Here's a guy State of Ohio members Jay Burson, Jay Berson. No,

1185
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 1: Jay Berson was at Ohio State. I think it was

1186
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 1: like twenty two, twenty three year game faller. He broke

1187
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 1: his neck. I guess against Iowa, right, never the same,

1188
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 1: but like it was Scott Skiles and Jay Berson like

1189
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:36,120
Speaker 1: in the Big Ten, like you dude scanned the TV

1190
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 1: and you go like, oh, Bobby Early looks like me?

1191
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 1: Why s Miller looks like me? Right, that's the guy.

1192
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:46,080
Speaker 1: And there's no question, like you try to I try

1193
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: to figure it out high school all the time, Like

1194
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 1: can I do it? I know I can do it.

1195
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 1: But we're the examples, you know, Doug Gottlie, you know,

1196
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 1: and by the way, like I can shoot better than him,

1197
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 1: like totally, But you were you were one of my

1198
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:01,920
Speaker 1: one of my favorite guys to watch because you created

1199
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 1: some belief and you were a way better player than

1200
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 1: I ever dreamed about being, obviously, but so I was

1201
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 1: always a thing growing up. Well the likewise, he's been

1202
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 1: covered you, So let's do it again. It's your player.

1203
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:19,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I really appreciate your time anytime. Thanks. All right,

1204
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 1: that's part one, he's committed to Part two. We'll take

1205
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 1: a we'll take a deep dive in and and and

1206
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 1: get into more of the coaching stuff and and he

1207
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:34,120
Speaker 1: we'll talk about a couple of jobs that people thought

1208
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 1: he was gonna get and he didn't get, and what

1209
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,960
Speaker 1: Cincinnati's been like and how they can take the step

1210
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 1: to get in Cincinnati back to where had it been,

1211
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 1: not just to mccrownin, but obviously with Bob huggets. How

1212
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 1: hard is that to do. We'll discuss next time. The meantime,

1213
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 1: hug those Hug those kiddos, and be kind to your elders.

1214
01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 1: I hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving and the intend

1215
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 1: of dropping it on Thanksgiving daya so that throughout the

1216
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 1: weekend a lot of you are taking long trips. I

1217
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 1: hope you're nice enough to plug in the podcast any

1218
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 1: of them. There's you go back, there's some great stuff

1219
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 1: in here. You kind of go back through the catalog

1220
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:17,520
Speaker 1: and look anyway, reminder of the Doug gottli shows daily.

1221
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:21,520
Speaker 1: So it's it's actually now three to five Eastern time,

1222
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:25,720
Speaker 1: and then at five we drop a live pod and

1223
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:28,760
Speaker 1: it's called in the bonus. You can download that anywhere

1224
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 1: even where you download this podcast. Hope you enjoyed it,

1225
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:34,400
Speaker 1: Hope you have a great weekend. We'll get back talking

1226
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:38,600
Speaker 1: more than grangular details of Hoop upcoming. I'm Doug Gottliebis

1227
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:39,160
Speaker 1: is all ball