WEBVTT - Jess Walter: The Ponz

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin. Hey, it's Jacob Weisberg from Pushkin Industries. I am

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<v Speaker 1>really excited to introduce you to Pushkin's newest show, The

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<v Speaker 1>Chronicles of Now short fiction. Inspired by the news. As

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure you can imagine, it's a fruitful time for material,

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<v Speaker 1>and given the news about Michael Cohen getting sprung from prison,

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<v Speaker 1>we couldn't wait to get the first episode out, So

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<v Speaker 1>here's a sneak preview. More episodes will be coming out

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<v Speaker 1>weekly starting Wednesday, June twenty fourth. Make sure you subscribe

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<v Speaker 1>so you don't miss any of them. Here is the

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<v Speaker 1>Chronicles of Now. Secual counsel Robert Mueller. The FBI has

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<v Speaker 1>executed search warrants at the office of Michael Cohen, the

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<v Speaker 1>President's personal lawyer. In a world gone haywire. Sometimes our

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<v Speaker 1>is the only thing that can make sense of it all.

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<v Speaker 1>He was the President's fixer, the man who once said

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<v Speaker 1>he'd take a bullet for Donald Trump. I will do

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<v Speaker 1>anything to protect mister Trump. This is the Chronicles of

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<v Speaker 1>Now short fiction, torn from today's headlines. I'm Ashley Ford.

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<v Speaker 1>I regret the day I said yes to mister Trump.

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<v Speaker 1>This week a story about that guy there, Michael Cohen

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<v Speaker 1>by this guy here, novelist Jess Walter, We all for

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<v Speaker 1>a moment stopped and rooted for the most ridiculous character

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<v Speaker 1>to finally tell the truth and finally be listened to.

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<v Speaker 1>I regret all the help and support I gave him

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<v Speaker 1>along the way. President's longtime lawyer and fixer, Michael Cohen

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<v Speaker 1>heading off the prison for three years. This is him

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<v Speaker 1>leaving his New York Michael Cohen is going to head

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<v Speaker 1>up so now seventy five miles northwest of New York

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<v Speaker 1>City to Otisville, New York, where the prison is Donald

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<v Speaker 1>Trump's a former lawyer, Michael Cohen, will be released early

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<v Speaker 1>from prison because of the coronavirus pandemic. When I saw

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<v Speaker 1>that he was being released from prison, I did like

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<v Speaker 1>a Google search and just saw that according to rumors,

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<v Speaker 1>he's writing a book, oh and that he wants to

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<v Speaker 1>come out before the election. Cohen will serve the rest

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<v Speaker 1>of his time in home confinement. Yeah, it just felt

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<v Speaker 1>like the makings of a great, really short story. Here

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<v Speaker 1>in Notisville, everyone betters himself. Gris LSATs Micelli is studying

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<v Speaker 1>for his real estate license, and me, I've lost thirty

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<v Speaker 1>pounds and started writing. I was popular the minute I arrived.

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<v Speaker 1>Most guys wanted to know if mister Trump was as

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<v Speaker 1>terrible as he seemed. Yes, especially the Black and Spanish guys.

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<v Speaker 1>They hate him. They'd ask, is it true he wears

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<v Speaker 1>adult diapers? No comment? Did he do that thing with

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<v Speaker 1>the Russian hookers? No comment? But duh. Some guys wanted

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<v Speaker 1>legal advice. I had to confess my areas of expertise

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<v Speaker 1>were more taxicab, medallions and foreign policy. My wife was

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<v Speaker 1>worried that prison would be like law and order, but

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<v Speaker 1>I told her everyone here is nice, well almost everyone.

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<v Speaker 1>The fat Man has his fans here too, fox fox

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<v Speaker 1>and psychopaths. Mostly the fox Fox admire him because he

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<v Speaker 1>tells smart people to pound sand. The psychos like him

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<v Speaker 1>because he gets away with everything. Otisville is medium security,

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<v Speaker 1>like a middle school with razor wire. There are tennis

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<v Speaker 1>courts and kosher food. And I was the biggest star here.

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<v Speaker 1>Once Mike the situation from Jersey Shore got released. That's

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<v Speaker 1>when I knew it was going to be okay, that

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<v Speaker 1>life inside wasn't so different from life outside the day

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<v Speaker 1>I saw the situation outside the Rabbi's office, Michael Cohen,

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<v Speaker 1>He said, Sitch, I said, back, we pro hugged. Celebrity

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<v Speaker 1>is the great equalizer. Now that I write that, I

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<v Speaker 1>guess it's the opposite of an equalizer, because it makes

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<v Speaker 1>you unequalm. This is going to be harder than I

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<v Speaker 1>thought writing a book. My lawyer says they'll hire a

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<v Speaker 1>ghost writer, but I kind of want to do it myself,

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<v Speaker 1>more betterment. But the words equalizer, situation, stormy, fixer, rat,

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<v Speaker 1>it really makes you think I have only one enemy

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<v Speaker 1>in here, this gray haired guy doing eight years for fraud.

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<v Speaker 1>It's his second stint to notice Phil. He's like the

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<v Speaker 1>yard ball. He calls me rat, fixer Snitch. Everyone calls

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<v Speaker 1>him the Ponds because he specialized in Ponzi schemes, and

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<v Speaker 1>because of the Ponds from Happy Days. Once we were

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<v Speaker 1>in the activity room watching the news and Giuliani was

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<v Speaker 1>tripping on his own dick, and the Pond said he

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<v Speaker 1>looked like one of those balls he squeezed for stress

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<v Speaker 1>where the eyes pop out. Even you were a better

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<v Speaker 1>lawyer than that, guy, said the Ponds. Thanks, I said,

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<v Speaker 1>but it wasn't a compliment that even words. Then the

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<v Speaker 1>Pond said, you miss it, don't you? Rat I ignored

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<v Speaker 1>the rat part, not at all. I said, I've lost

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<v Speaker 1>thirty pounds, my conscience is free. Come on, he said,

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<v Speaker 1>you miss it. You fucked up by talking. You could

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<v Speaker 1>have gotten a pardon instead. You know what snitches get right.

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<v Speaker 1>That's when I got scared. There aren't actual gangs here,

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<v Speaker 1>no Larassa or Aryan brotherhood. But it doesn't mean you

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<v Speaker 1>don't have to watch your back. For instance, the Ponds

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<v Speaker 1>is in a book club, the wc OG white collar

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<v Speaker 1>original gangsters. To get in, you have to be doing

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<v Speaker 1>at least a nickel for tax evasion, fraud or insider trading.

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<v Speaker 1>They meet in the quad to talk about CEO autobiographies.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometimes they mix in a Michael Lewis or Malcolm Gladwell book,

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<v Speaker 1>but only to trash it. I didn't sleep well after

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<v Speaker 1>the Pond said that was he right? Did I miss it?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean on my phone he was just tea. I

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<v Speaker 1>can't tell you how that felt, the President calling me

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<v Speaker 1>and now would I ever be more than a joke

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<v Speaker 1>to the MSNBC lame streamers but traitorous racked to the

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<v Speaker 1>Fox Fox. I felt so alone. For a while. There

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<v Speaker 1>was a rumor that Martin Screlly was getting transferred to Odisville.

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<v Speaker 1>I imagined roaming the halls with another celeb, showing the

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<v Speaker 1>farmer row around. There's the weight room, and here's the

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<v Speaker 1>basketball courts, and there's the pharmacy. We'd laugh the pharmacy.

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<v Speaker 1>Then the Ponds would see us and I'd say, hey, Ponds,

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<v Speaker 1>you stole millions. This dude stole billions. Suck on that.

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<v Speaker 1>They ended up sending Strelly to a different prison, and

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<v Speaker 1>I was truly alone, the only celebrity on my block.

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<v Speaker 1>One day, I was in the activity room and a

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<v Speaker 1>guy tripped on my laptop chord and unplugged it. I

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<v Speaker 1>looked up. It was one of them, a WCOG book clubber.

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<v Speaker 1>He apologized, but I got the message. I wasn't safe anywhere.

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<v Speaker 1>If this was a TV jail, I'd carve a spoon

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<v Speaker 1>into a knife or fill a pillowcase with soap. But

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<v Speaker 1>here at Otisville, there was nothing to do but tell

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<v Speaker 1>my counselor, and he was a gestalt therapist who tried

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<v Speaker 1>to frame the whole thing as a patterned reaction. I

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<v Speaker 1>have the feelings of rejection. It was my lowest point,

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<v Speaker 1>but that's when the virus arrived and everything changed. No

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<v Speaker 1>more activities, no more book club, and without his boys,

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<v Speaker 1>the Ponds was just another old fraud. Then came even

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<v Speaker 1>better news. They were sending some of us home early,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was one of the lucky ones. Honestly, I

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<v Speaker 1>hadn't wanted to admit how much I missed my family,

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<v Speaker 1>even to my therapist. It hurt too much to think about.

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<v Speaker 1>But this virus, it put everything in perspective life, death.

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<v Speaker 1>What did the Ponds matter now? The virus didn't see you,

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<v Speaker 1>lame streamers and Fox Fox. To the virus, We're all

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<v Speaker 1>just meat. The virus. That is the great equalizer. So

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<v Speaker 1>on the last day of my two week quarantine, before

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<v Speaker 1>I went home, I wrote a note to the Ponds.

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<v Speaker 1>I paid a trustee to deliver it to him, tucked

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<v Speaker 1>inside his National Review, Hey Pons, I wrote, you want

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<v Speaker 1>to know what else snitches get book deals? Motherfucker fixer?

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<v Speaker 1>That was The Ponds by Jess Walter. That is the

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<v Speaker 1>first time I've read anything about Michael Cohen that made

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<v Speaker 1>me laugh a little. Why are you thinking about Michael Cohen?

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<v Speaker 1>Why is he a worthy protagonist for you? Right now?

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<v Speaker 1>I can honestly say I'm usually not thinking about Michael Cohen,

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<v Speaker 1>but there are so many of these Trump characters that

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<v Speaker 1>I wish I'd never heard of. But there's something weird

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<v Speaker 1>and poignant and needy about him, this sort of broken,

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<v Speaker 1>needy guy who, if he hadn't slithered up to Trump's

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<v Speaker 1>ship and attached himself like a barnacle, would still be

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<v Speaker 1>pulling taxicab scams somewhere. And Yeah, when the idea of

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<v Speaker 1>writing stories based on the news popped up, I thought, Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>the only one of these characters that I could possibly

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<v Speaker 1>imagine in fiction is poor, sappy, said, corrupt, awful Michael Cohen.

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<v Speaker 1>And Cohen is famous or infamous like Mike the situation,

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<v Speaker 1>like Martin Schcrelly. What is your story telling us about

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<v Speaker 1>fame in America right now? I mean, we are so

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<v Speaker 1>far down that road from the nineteen sixty presidential debate,

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<v Speaker 1>when you know Nixon lost points for sweating on television

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<v Speaker 1>and now we have an actual horrible reality TV star

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<v Speaker 1>in the White House. Fame is so ingrained in what's

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<v Speaker 1>wrong with America that I don't even really know where

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<v Speaker 1>to start except to let it speak for itself. Let

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Michael Cohen, bro hug the sitch in prison

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<v Speaker 1>and feel alone because he's the only famous person on

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<v Speaker 1>his block. I don't know how else to say it,

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<v Speaker 1>that these marginal characters are famous and are the people

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<v Speaker 1>we talk about and somehow we've decided should run the

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<v Speaker 1>country during the most devastating, you know, moment in the

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<v Speaker 1>last fifty years of our history? Is Michael Cohen a

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<v Speaker 1>better person for having confessed or for taking his chances

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<v Speaker 1>with the courts? Like can the people trust he's actually

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<v Speaker 1>been bettered, as he puts in your story, because he

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<v Speaker 1>dogs about being bettered, and I'm wondering about that. I

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<v Speaker 1>can't say that my fictional Cohen is bettered, and that

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<v Speaker 1>might just be the cynic in me. I mean, the

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<v Speaker 1>vessels of redemption aren't chosen for their seaworthiness, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you just happen to stumble upon them. And he does

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<v Speaker 1>have an opportunity. You know, we'll see when he when

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<v Speaker 1>he and Rosie O'Donnell finish this book he's working on,

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<v Speaker 1>and we'll see just how redeemed he is. But it's

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<v Speaker 1>the kind of thing I find myself drawn to in fiction.

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<v Speaker 1>Do we get a second chance? Who deserves it? Where

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<v Speaker 1>it does everyday kind of heroism rise up. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's at best ambiguous at the end of the

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<v Speaker 1>story whether or not Michael Cohen is a changed man.

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<v Speaker 1>But I hope for our sake that if he's not changed,

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<v Speaker 1>he's at least as vindictive as hell. Jess Walter, speaking

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<v Speaker 1>to me from his home in Spokane. Jess Walter is

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<v Speaker 1>the author of six novels, including Beautiful Ruins, which was

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<v Speaker 1>an international bestseller. His new novel, The Cold Millions, about

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<v Speaker 1>the labor activists Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, will be published in October.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't wait to wait. Thanks. Yeah, I just sold one.

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<v Speaker 1>That's like a dollar twenty for me already. Look how

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<v Speaker 1>this day's worked out. You can hear my full interview

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<v Speaker 1>with Jess Walter on our website Chronicles dot Fm, where

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<v Speaker 1>you can also read The Ponds and other short fiction

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<v Speaker 1>torn from today's headlines. Our reader was Oliver Wyman. Our

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<v Speaker 1>sound designer and composer is Bart Warshaw. Our producer is

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<v Speaker 1>Curtis box Tyler. Cabott is the executive producer and founder

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<v Speaker 1>of Chronicles of Now for Pushkin Industries. Special thanks to

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<v Speaker 1>Leetel Milaud and Jacob Weisberg. For the Chronicles of Now podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Ashley Ford. Thanks for listening. It's Jacob Weisberg again.

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<v Speaker 1>That was a preview of the Chronicles of Now from

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin Industries. New episodes of the podcast will be coming

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<v Speaker 1>out weekly, beginning on Wednesday, June twenty fourth, so please

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<v Speaker 1>subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and let us know

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<v Speaker 1>what you thought of the show on social media, or

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<v Speaker 1>you can write a review in Apple Podcasts. You can

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<v Speaker 1>find us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at Pushkin Pods.