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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Lai Decker here with

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and Body Move in. It is Wednesday, September

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Speaker 2: twenty fourth, and we have a stack night of headlines.

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Speaker 2: Travis Decker declared dead by US Marshals.

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Speaker 3: Also this big warning from.

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Speaker 2: The judge and the Luigi Mange Oanne case Karen Reid,

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Speaker 2: she's actually back in court and Diddy is urging for

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Speaker 2: a full release. Plus, don't forget true crime and Chill Lover,

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Speaker 2: Stalker Killer. We're discussing that and so much more tonight.

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong, where should we begin?

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Speaker 4: So I wanted to get in. We have been covering

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Speaker 4: this since the very beginning. Travis Decker. So, Stephanie, as

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Speaker 4: you said, the federal prosecutors have moved to dismiss the

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Speaker 4: arrest warrant. US Marshal Services have declared him dead. However,

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Speaker 4: in this little nuanced full DNA confirmation based on the

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Speaker 4: bone analysis is still pending.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so Travis Decker.

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Speaker 4: Of course, he was the subject of a national manhunt,

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Speaker 4: and he has been accused of murdering his three young daughters,

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Speaker 4: all under the age of ten. And this happened back

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Speaker 4: on June second at a really remote Washington campground. And

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Speaker 4: there have been marshals and many many different agencies that

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Speaker 4: have you know, come to to get this to where

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Speaker 4: it is today.

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Speaker 3: So the marshals must be pretty you know, I'm a

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Speaker 3: big fan of the marshals, right they do. I think

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Speaker 3: they do an incredible job. Yes, I mean, they really do.

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Speaker 3: And you know, they must be pretty convinced it's him

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Speaker 3: then though, right to gore ahead and declare him dead.

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Speaker 4: Yes, there is a lot all evidence is pointing that way.

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Speaker 4: So there's been a federal motion to dismiss the arrest warrant.

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Speaker 4: The human remains that were found, which we reported on

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Speaker 4: earlier in the week, are believed to be Deckers. Those

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Speaker 4: were discovered, excuse me, on September eighteenth, right near the

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Speaker 4: Rock Island campground. It was only zero point seventy four

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Speaker 4: miles from the original crime scene. Close, are you, Yes,

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Speaker 4: it was three quarters of a mile away, but it

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Speaker 4: wasn't over four thousand feet elevation, heavily wooded terrain steep complicated.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that close. I wonder if they're going to tell

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Speaker 3: us like how he died, because remember, Courtney, there was

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Speaker 3: that handprint or something in blood that's right near his truck.

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Speaker 3: And I wonder if he, you know, did something to

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Speaker 3: himself and then was kind of stumbling around and maybe

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Speaker 3: made his way hop over to where he you know,

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Speaker 3: succumbed maybe to his injuries.

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Speaker 4: Mm hmm, yeah, I mean I imagine that will come

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Speaker 4: to bear. Although if it's only bones, I don't know

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Speaker 4: what the autopsy, you know, unless something happened to his

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Speaker 4: physical bones, assuming.

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Speaker 3: Of course these are his.

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Speaker 4: But the reason to believe listen the Sheleyan County Sheriff

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Speaker 4: Mike Morrison, who is, by the way, just a brilliant presence,

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Speaker 4: as he has been giving updates throughout this whole thing.

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Speaker 4: Oh God, so good, right, just measured and calm, so

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Speaker 4: he's emphasized the charges. The charges will remain active until

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Speaker 4: the bone confirmation is received. However, the clothing that was

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Speaker 4: on the remains, those have been confirmed to belong to

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Speaker 4: Decker via DNA.

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Speaker 3: Oh really, so they had the okay, so they tested

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Speaker 3: both tested the clothes and then they tested the bones.

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Speaker 3: I wonder differences if we have the clothes results back,

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Speaker 3: what's different with the bones?

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Speaker 5: Like?

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Speaker 3: Are they different like tests? I' you know what we

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Speaker 3: should ask, Joseph on.

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Speaker 4: We should ask, yeah, forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan, we should.

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Speaker 4: But I'd have to imagine there would be different tests. Absolutely,

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Speaker 4: whether it be hair or fingernails or touch or blood,

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Speaker 4: all of it would be different. So the again, the

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Speaker 4: clothing found on the remains does match his DNA, so

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Speaker 4: it would be so unlikely. It would mean he lost

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Speaker 4: or took off his clothes, somebody else to put those

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Speaker 4: clothes back on, and then they died.

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Speaker 3: It has to be him, right, it has to be him.

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Speaker 3: And I'm assuming that that, you know, again, big fan

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Speaker 3: of the US Marshals here, you know, I'm assuming that

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Speaker 3: they they're probably like, hey, listen, the clothes the guy

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Speaker 3: was wearing matches Travis Decker's DNA. It's safe to go

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Speaker 3: ahead and conclude. And I saw the order from you know,

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Speaker 3: the court today that the US Marshals are declaring him well,

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Speaker 3: declaring him dead. It's basically saying, there's no need to

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Speaker 3: charge anymore. But you know, Travis Decker is these are

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Speaker 3: probably his remains.

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Speaker 2: Wow, I think our heart too, so goes out to

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Speaker 2: his ex wife, right, So let's remember, you know, Travis Decker,

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Speaker 2: We've been covering this story from day one. You know,

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Speaker 2: this has been going on for such a long time.

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Speaker 2: And I think about it, and you know, Whitney Decker,

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Speaker 2: his ex wife and the mother of these three beautiful daughters.

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Speaker 2: You know, our hearts go out to her because that

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Speaker 2: was a very tricky situation she had.

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Speaker 3: She had full custody of these girls.

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Speaker 2: And you'll remember Travis as a father, was kind of

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Speaker 2: outside of their parenting plan. He was living outside of

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Speaker 2: his truck. You know, she had made some real cries

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Speaker 2: for help, basically saying that he wasn't really meeting up

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Speaker 2: to his obligations and was suffering from borderline personality disorder

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Speaker 2: which very very it may be PTSD from some time

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Speaker 2: served I think earlier in the military. And I can't

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Speaker 2: imagine a harder scenario, the worst case ending for a

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Speaker 2: mother who was really trying to do the right thing

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Speaker 2: on every level, Like she asked for help, she kept

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Speaker 2: her the father of her children included in her daughter's lives,

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Speaker 2: even though she had full custody, which you know takes

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Speaker 2: a lot of work for her, and it's a real

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Speaker 2: devastator and here she is just having to pick up

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Speaker 2: the pieces.

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Speaker 3: It's really unimaginable. It is unimaginable. And you know, she's

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Speaker 3: not going to get any answers. And you listen, not

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Speaker 3: that any answers are going to make any of this

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Speaker 3: any better for her, right sure, she suffered an unimaginable loss,

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Speaker 3: including him, right, like, yes, exactly, you know, so she's

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Speaker 3: not going to get any answers. And my heart, that

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Speaker 3: was the first thing I thought of today when I

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Speaker 3: read the order, was, Oh, she's not going to get

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Speaker 3: any answers. But then you know, I'm like, it's not

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Speaker 3: going to make it any easier for her, you know.

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Speaker 2: It's not. I don't know, you know, we talked a

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Speaker 2: lot about yeah, grace and grief. Right if you've ever

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Speaker 2: had the moment to look at her eulogy that she

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Speaker 2: gave for her three daughters so quickly after this incident

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Speaker 2: when her ex was being was he a suspect at

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Speaker 2: that point, yes, And she did not have answers and

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Speaker 2: she's laying her beautiful babies to rest. And how she

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Speaker 2: found the wherewithal and the courage and the strength and

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Speaker 2: the words to be able to you know, speak so eloquently.

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Speaker 2: It is.

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Speaker 3: It's a real testament to the human spirit, right, it

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Speaker 3: really is.

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Speaker 4: I mean there is no loss like your three children,

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Speaker 4: so hopefully some sense of peace that maybe at least

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Speaker 4: you know, it's not daily or weekly reports from from officials, right,

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Speaker 4: So we're wishing her well.

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Speaker 3: I guess is the best the best.

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Speaker 4: So you know, we'll keep you updated as things are

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Speaker 4: absolutely finalized.

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Speaker 3: This is a true crime tonight. We are on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 4: I'm Courtney Armstrong, lucky enough to be here with Body

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Speaker 4: Movin and Stephanie Lydecker. We just finished talking about Travis

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Speaker 4: Decker who again has his remains have been found. We

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Speaker 4: want to hear your thoughts on this or anything in

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Speaker 4: the news eighted eight three one crime or you can

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Speaker 4: always get us on the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app

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Speaker 4: upper right hand corner of the app. Click on the

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Speaker 4: microphone and leave a message and boom you are on

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Speaker 4: the show. But now, yes, now, I would love to

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Speaker 4: hear what is up with Luigi Mangione.

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Speaker 3: Oh, Luigi, Luigi. The drama never ends with Luigi. So

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Speaker 3: a federal judge has warned the Department of Justice that

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Speaker 3: repeated public comments by senior level officials about Luigi Maanjioon's

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Speaker 3: guilt might violate court rules and jeopardize his right to

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Speaker 3: a fair trial, especially as the defense moves to block

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Speaker 3: the death penalty. As you remember, Eg Mandion, he's twenty seven.

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Speaker 3: He stands accused of, you know, shooting United Healthcare CEO

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Speaker 3: Brian Thompson on the streets of New York City during

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Speaker 3: a public event in Manhattan on December fourth of twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty four. And remember he printed this gun he left

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Speaker 3: up behind this backpack full of monopoly money, the manifesto

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Speaker 3: in you know, the engravings on the bullets to the

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Speaker 3: dry defend depos It was just this crazy, like what

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Speaker 3: is going on kind of case. Well, since then he

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Speaker 3: has been charged federally and at the state level as well,

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Speaker 3: but the state of New York does not have the

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Speaker 3: death penalty, so the federal charges include the death penalty,

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Speaker 3: and the defense has been trying to get that removed

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Speaker 3: from the table before the trial begins. And one of

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Speaker 3: the things that they're citing is that officials are making

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Speaker 3: really prejudicial comments about his guilt and possible motive before

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Speaker 3: the trial even begins. And it you know, goes as

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Speaker 3: high as you know, President Trump. So the judge today

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Speaker 3: said that the DOJ officials Chad gil Martin and brian

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Speaker 3: Neevies might have violated local criminal Rule twenty three dot

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Speaker 3: one and a prior court order by reposting President Trump's

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Speaker 3: claims about Luigi's guilt. The repost of content is there was.

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump went on TV and commented that Luigi Manngione

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Speaker 3: shot someone in the back instantly dead. That that was

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Speaker 3: that's the quote, and that was retweeted by the DOJ.

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Speaker 3: Deputy director Gil Martin endorsed on X and he said,

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Speaker 3: potus is absolutely right. And you know, again this is

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Speaker 3: you know, the defense is saying this is prejudicial, and

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Speaker 3: you know you're tainting the jury pool and you're getting

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Speaker 3: it in everybody's head, you know, from the highest office

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Speaker 3: in the land really that you know, you can't do this.

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Speaker 3: And the judge kind of agreed, but the judge has

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Speaker 3: it ruled. She's just saying stop it.

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Speaker 2: She's giving a warning, I come about or cry, and

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Speaker 2: it's a really complicated thing and it has I try

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Speaker 2: to stir it up in my head. On the one hand,

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Speaker 2: I can't see the point innocent until proven guilty, because

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Speaker 2: we're talking about optics right now, right and we're talking about,

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Speaker 2: you know, burdening a jury to you know, ignore what

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Speaker 2: they may have heard in the present in the media

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Speaker 2: and the purp walk. We talked a little bit about

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Speaker 2: that last night as well. That's gotten some play, the

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Speaker 2: fact that Luigi Mangione was kind of delivered in front

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Speaker 2: of the media in that you know, yeah, he's in

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Speaker 2: shackles now. I see alside said this one, but it

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Speaker 2: does speak to optics, and I'm curious what your thoughts

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Speaker 2: are because optics are a big piece of the equation.

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Speaker 2: Right we're talking about Ditty tonight. We know there were

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Speaker 2: optics to P Diddy going to court looking elderly and

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Speaker 2: like a little old man in a sweater with his bible,

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Speaker 2: his bible, or you know, as defendants are being presented

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Speaker 2: before a jury in the media, oftentimes there's real consideration

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Speaker 2: and by oftentimes I think pretty much always consideration about

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Speaker 2: how they appear. Are they wearing stripes and looking like

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Speaker 2: a criminal or are they in a jacket in tie?

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Speaker 2: And it's just an interesting conversation because in this case, yeah,

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Speaker 2: the death sentence is a real one. Their lawyers are

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Speaker 2: death sentence lawyers. Their job is to get him free.

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Speaker 2: And at the same time, here he was allegedly on

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Speaker 2: camera shooting a man in cold blood.

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Speaker 4: It's interesting that the retweeting in and of itself isn't

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Speaker 4: well a.

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Speaker 3: Right, And I think it's the added comments, like the

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Speaker 3: you know, potus is exactly right, you know, and the

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Speaker 3: judge basically warned that, you know, she's going to take

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Speaker 3: these into consideration when she decides to rule on the

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Speaker 3: defense's motion to dismiss the death penalty, So there's no

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Speaker 3: TakeBack on that, like she's already going to possibly consider

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Speaker 3: those comments when looking at this motion to dismiss.

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Speaker 2: And what would have been better, because again I don't

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Speaker 2: think this is even a conversation about guilt or innocence, right,

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Speaker 2: in some ways, we have seen this man on camera

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Speaker 2: allegedly shoot somebody in cold blood, So you know, of

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Speaker 2: all cases allegedly, this one kind of falls in this

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Speaker 2: like very horrible gray area.

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Speaker 3: What would have been better? Is it if this is.

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Speaker 2: The person then they're getting the death penalty.

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Speaker 3: Right, that's a good question. What would have been more

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Speaker 3: appropriate for the President of the United States to say? Correct?

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Speaker 2: Because it was a very heated time and familiar as

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Speaker 2: it is right now, we're all living it like right,

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Speaker 2: it was a really hot time. We were all extremely,

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Speaker 2: extremely distraught when that happens.

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Speaker 3: Well, the judge has ordered the DOJ to submit a

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Speaker 3: sworn declaration by October third, detailing how these apparent violations

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Speaker 3: occurred and how they plan to prevent future breaches. Now,

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Speaker 3: I think that's going to have a lot of play.

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Speaker 3: I think how they plan to prevent is going to

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Speaker 3: really weigh in the judge's mind when she's looking at

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Speaker 3: this motion to dismiss the death penalty. I think if

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Speaker 3: she's satisfied with their plan moving forward, you know, it

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Speaker 3: might negate any negative impacts that have been made thus far.

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Speaker 3: You know, we're gonna to wait and see. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: she wasn't happy.

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Speaker 4: She wasn't we I think a warning is the right thing,

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Speaker 4: to just be a little measured and take a beat

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Speaker 4: and say I tolerate this, and you know, as you said,

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Speaker 4: we'll see how the plan is received. Well, we will

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Speaker 4: stay on this for sure. When we come back, Karen

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Speaker 4: Reid is back in the courtroom. We also have new

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Speaker 4: developments in the trial of accused Long Island.

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Speaker 3: Serial killer Rex Huerman to cover.

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Speaker 4: And also we have True Crime and Chill where we

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Speaker 4: are talking lover stalker, Killer. Keep it here True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker, Hi, head

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Speaker 2: of KAT Studios where we make true crime podcasts and documentaries.

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Speaker 2: Please check out in Cells out today and as well

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Speaker 2: as The Idaho Massacre season three also out, So we

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Speaker 2: really thank you for listening. I'm here of course with

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Speaker 2: Body Movin and Courtney Armstrong and man, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: in the headlines right now, so we're going to speed

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Speaker 2: talk a little bit because we're really going to try

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Speaker 2: to get through it all. Karen Reid back in court.

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Speaker 2: Did he do back in court? We're going to unpack

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Speaker 2: it all.

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Speaker 3: But first let's go toward talk about.

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Speaker 5: Hi ladyes Leah in Australia, just on the David case

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Speaker 5: and Celestia. The thing that I find the strangest is

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Speaker 5: that if she had been dead for as long as

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Speaker 5: is suggested, would he not have noticed that she was

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Speaker 5: not around or not responding, etc. Even if he was

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Speaker 5: on tour. I feel like, you know, there's a bit

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Speaker 5: of a gap there in terms of what he did

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Speaker 5: or didn't know, even if he wasn't involved.

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Speaker 4: A great point, I mean, one more question to add

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Speaker 4: to the absolute multitude of questions surrounding this case. And

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Speaker 4: of course our Australian friend is referring to Celes Reevas Hernandez.

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Speaker 4: She's a fifteen year old girl or fourteen, depending upon

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Speaker 4: the birthday and death date, who was found in the

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Speaker 4: front trunk of singer David's tesla who has been on tour.

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Speaker 4: So we know that Seles Reevas was in his car.

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Speaker 4: The autopsy results are still not in and this has

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Speaker 4: still not been deemed a homicide.

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Speaker 2: How is that possible? It does seem as though it's

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Speaker 2: pretty shocking that there have not been more new developments

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Speaker 2: in this case.

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Speaker 3: I think they're going to be waiting on talks. I

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Speaker 3: think we might be waiting a minute.

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Speaker 2: A minute.

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Speaker 3: I think toxology report, I think that's going to play

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Speaker 3: a role here. I'm not saying that she was a

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Speaker 3: drug addict or anything like that. Please don't mistake me.

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Speaker 3: But I do think that that's going to play a

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Speaker 3: role in this, and I think that they're waiting for that.

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Speaker 3: I think it's possible there's no obvious maybe manner of death,

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Speaker 3: and so they're going to be exhausting all of the

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Speaker 3: technology available to determine what happened to Porcelust. And again,

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Speaker 3: you know, she was just a little girl. We have

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Speaker 3: to remember that, Like, it's so hard remember timeline a

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Speaker 3: little hard on the timeline.

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Speaker 2: My line is rough, so.

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Speaker 3: And we don't even know the last time she was seen, right,

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Speaker 3: we just don't.

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Speaker 2: We're talking like eleven, twenty fo years old is alleged

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Speaker 2: right now, reportedly is when she met this said boyfriend,

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Speaker 2: David et cetera. And again, charges have not been filed

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Speaker 2: against David the pop singer, although he has canceled his tour.

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Speaker 2: If he is being wrongfully associated with this case simply

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Speaker 2: by the fact that it's his car and it's inaccurate,

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Speaker 2: that is really rough, hard thing to come back for.

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Speaker 3: So we all have to keep an open mind.

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Speaker 2: However, you know, Celeste's brother has come out publicly and

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Speaker 2: her mother saying that they were concerned about a troubled

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Speaker 2: boyfriend she had named David, And that's concerning, but it's

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Speaker 2: the timeline, like she is eleven, twelve, thirteen years old,

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Speaker 2: and there is a report that she had left, and

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Speaker 2: then they summoned her, right, and then brought her home and.

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Speaker 3: The teacher, her teacher said that she went to LA

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Speaker 3: to be with some singer. Correct, So it does all

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Speaker 3: point to David. And it's hard to not look at him, right,

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Speaker 3: it's hard not to look at him and not hard

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Speaker 3: not to consider him a suspect. And at the very

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Speaker 3: least in you know, of grooming, right, or predatory behavior

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Speaker 3: with a little girl. You know, where's mom?

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Speaker 2: Where's mom? Where's mom? And brother?

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Speaker 3: Of course, of course let's start there.

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Speaker 2: Of course, I guess my question larger question, and you know,

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Speaker 2: if anyone has any information, or if they even want

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Speaker 2: to join the conversation, what happens at thirteen that your

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Speaker 2: daughter goes to Los Angeles to be with a singer

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Speaker 2: that's like underage and why is she not in school?

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Speaker 2: And that's a tough one also because in and of itself,

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Speaker 2: that is taking your your hand off the wheel a.

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Speaker 3: Little bit, if that's how this plays out.

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Speaker 2: So it's really controversial. It's hard stuff. It's hard on

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Speaker 2: every side.

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Speaker 4: It's controversial, and it also it is complicated because, as

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Speaker 4: you said, there is a little bit of a dearth

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Speaker 4: of information of what was going on. And we do

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Speaker 4: know that in April of twenty twenty four, there was

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Speaker 4: a missing person's alert put out. That's a long time,

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Speaker 4: it's what seventeen months or something.

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Speaker 2: But thenn't they know where she was if at some

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Speaker 2: point she had traveled to a different city to be

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Speaker 2: with the music guy, would it like, you know, apples

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Speaker 2: to apples, And again, this is not coming from a

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Speaker 2: place of judgment. We're learning real time and unpacking alongside

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Speaker 2: of everyone.

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Speaker 6: You know, the.

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Speaker 3: Information is really murky. So yeah, it has been talked

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Speaker 3: about that she did know where Celeste was and even

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Speaker 3: got LAPD involved and they basically knocked on the door

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Speaker 3: and they had, you know, no evidence that she was there,

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Speaker 3: you know, and then kind of moved on with other

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Speaker 3: vices and stuff. But again this is just chatter. We

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Speaker 3: haven't heard from mom directly. We haven't heard from Mom directly.

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Speaker 3: We're hearing from sources of a source of a source.

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Speaker 3: It's all the telephone game right now, right like we

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Speaker 3: just don't know. There reminds me of R.

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Speaker 2: Kelly a little bit, right, that's I guess a little

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Speaker 2: bit the crossover, but again not an original thought. But

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Speaker 2: more to come on this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, more to come. We're going to be following this obviously.

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Speaker 3: I'm looking at it every single day. This is True

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Speaker 3: Crime Tonight on iHeart Radio, where we talk true crime

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Speaker 3: all the time. I'm here with Courtney and Stephanie, and

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Speaker 3: we have been talking about the David and the Celeste

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Speaker 3: rebas Hernandez case. If you want to weigh and give

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Speaker 3: us a call eighty eight thirty one crime or hit

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Speaker 3: us on the talk backs on the iHeart Radio app. Courtney,

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Speaker 3: I understand you have an update for us to go over.

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Speaker 4: Well, buckle up because Ditty's back in the new Laid anything.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what I hadn't heard. Yeah, right, you're right.

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Speaker 7: Your session really tell me is that true Sean Ditty Combs,

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Speaker 7: his defense team is asking for a sentence of no

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Speaker 7: more than fourteen months, and that number is an arbitrary

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Speaker 7: It's essentially going to be the time served since the

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Speaker 7: September twenty twenty four arrest, and part of their rationale

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Speaker 7: and asking for that is harsh prison conditions, the fact

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Speaker 7: that he has been rehabilitated, and prosecutors also, unsurprisingly are

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Speaker 7: seeking for a substantially longer term.

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Speaker 3: So we're going to see how that plays out.

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Speaker 4: And this obviously goes back to Sean Combs being convicted

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Speaker 4: July of twenty twenty five on to federal Man Act

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Speaker 4: counts and that related to interstate transportation for prostitution. He

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Speaker 4: was acquitted on more serious racketeering and sex trafficking charges

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Speaker 4: and those would have carried a potential for a life sentence,

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Speaker 4: but they did not come to bear. That's not what

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Speaker 4: he's been found guilty, right, So, Yeah, he has been

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Speaker 4: detained since the arrest and the sentencing is coming up

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Speaker 4: on October third.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that's fast approaching.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's here, and it's very possible that he will

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Speaker 2: leave that day, right. So she's given a lot of

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Speaker 2: information to the courts as recently as yesterday that have

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Speaker 2: letters on his behalf, for example, his mother, Janice, who's

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Speaker 2: in her eighties and just wants to be able to

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Speaker 2: hold her son again, and from his children, and even

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Speaker 2: from young Miami, who I believe was going to be

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Speaker 2: one of the victims that was going to speak out

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Speaker 2: in the previous yesteryear when this was all going down

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Speaker 2: in the courtroom, and then that really didn't happen. So

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Speaker 2: what's interesting and I'm curious what you guys think, and

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Speaker 2: definitely the audience please jump in and join this convo

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Speaker 2: eight eight eight to three one crime because now you know,

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Speaker 2: it's been a few months. We were talking about Diddy

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Speaker 2: and Karen Reid at the same time all the time

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Speaker 2: when we were first launching, right, So it's interesting that

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Speaker 2: there's been By the way, how much has happened since.

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Speaker 3: Now, I feel like it's a different year.

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Speaker 2: I don't even know what day it is, but I feel.

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Speaker 4: Like the world turns on a different access now from that.

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Speaker 2: He might be right, Yeah, really I was thinking it today.

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Speaker 2: We couldn't kind of believe it. So that said, because

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Speaker 2: we have had so much that has happened since then,

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Speaker 2: I would be curious if we really kind of relook

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Speaker 2: at this case in its totality with maybe out the emotion.

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Speaker 2: I know, speaking for myself, I very emotionally charged on

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Speaker 2: this one, because look, he's coming up for sentencing, and

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Speaker 2: you know, looking back, is that totally appropriate? Because the

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Speaker 2: racketeering charges were complete overcharge or you know, the victims

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Speaker 2: coming forward and putting themselves out there in front of

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Speaker 2: the world to hear their experiences behind closed doors, does

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Speaker 2: that put them in jeopardy? Now?

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Speaker 3: Is there a revenge tour?

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Speaker 2: I think it's worth noting also, did he is sober

434
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 2: now and allegedly behind bars with you know, alcohol is

435
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 2: gone and you know most of the illicit drugs.

436
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 3: Maybe just a little bit of.

437
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 2: Xanax is like calming him down and he's maybe seeing

438
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 2: things differently. Or are we able to just erase the

439
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 2: video that we saw of him, you know, beating Cassie

440
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 2: to the ground wildly at that hotel that time. But

441
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 2: it's complicated because that's not what he was charged for,

442
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 2: right And I think it's worth interesting, like not emotional

443
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 2: rethink and a relook because you know it's going to

444
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 2: be happening next week in court. We'd love to hear

445
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 2: everybody's perspective because it it is it's interesting to look

446
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 2: back on.

447
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 3: I just think they really screwed the pooch. I think

448
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: I've been pretty vocal about this. This this case to

449
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 3: me is blah, you know, and I just think the

450
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 3: government just really blew the Poochier. I think that they

451
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 3: should have had all their ducks in a row. They

452
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 3: should have not never filed anything federal rego all these

453
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,479
Speaker 3: They should have just filed sex trafficking and domestic violence

454
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 3: charges against him, maybe even attempted murder. I just think

455
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 3: it's ridiculous what they what they've made of this case,

456
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 3: and it's I think it's our fault.

457
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 4: Well, I disagree with that. I thought the prosecution. Actually,

458
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 4: I thought they did a brilliant job. I thought the

459
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 4: prosecutors were very strong. Obviously you and the jury disagree,

460
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 4: and that's why there are juries with twelve people.

461
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 3: That's true, that's true.

462
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 4: But the case, I mean, they did bring forth, you know,

463
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 4: so many witnesses with specifics, but to an earl, actually,

464
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 4: we were off the air when you made the point.

465
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 3: A lot was he said, She said, So how about

466
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 3: all those freak offs?

467
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,239
Speaker 2: Was that consensual? Was that okay? Is this organized? Was

468
00:25:59,320 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 2: this abuse?

469
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 5: So?

470
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:01,719
Speaker 2: You know, it brought up a lot of really sensitive

471
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 2: stuff that I think is important that we get to

472
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 2: still talk about and have the benefit of some hindsight

473
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 2: here too. You know, regardless of whether there was an

474
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 2: overreach or if they did an amazing job the prosecution.

475
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 3: Regardless, the prosecution's a little different now.

476
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 2: Remember Morencomy, who was the prosecutor in the original trial

477
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 2: after the charges were made, has been fired and she

478
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 2: has been removed by President Donald Trump and replaced with

479
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,360
Speaker 2: another lawyer. I don't think they've been like fully approved

480
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 2: by the Senate. But he's said to be very brilliant

481
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 2: and impartial, and maybe there's a new team approach that

482
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 2: that might have something new to bring to the table

483
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 2: next week, you know, again fresh eyes. It is a

484
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 2: really unique time too, Like we're talking about so many

485
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 2: of these big versations in these I mean, I don't

486
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 2: even know how to understate or overstate how much is

487
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 2: going on seemingly in the world right now. So is

488
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 2: that a good time for Diddy? You know we've heard

489
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 2: so many times, oh for the Menendez brothers, those times

490
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 2: the eighties, you know, different, there was like a different time,

491
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 2: and maybe they were overcharged because they seemed like spoiled

492
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 2: and entitled based on the times. O J. Simpson, you know,

493
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 2: we've all seen many documentaries and interviews about the fact

494
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 2: that maybe he was not charged hard enough because there

495
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 2: was this big upswell at the time in Los Angeles,

496
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 2: and you know there's a race conversation added to it

497
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 2: that was happening in the climate in the culture and

498
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 2: in the ditty case. Is there is the climate in

499
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 2: the culture different today than maybe it was when he

500
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 2: was originally charged. I don't know the answer, it's simply

501
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,959
Speaker 2: a question. But I do think it's an interesting context

502
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 2: as this actually shakes out for the last time.

503
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think I think the Epstein stuff

504
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 3: does play in with Diddy a little bit. I think

505
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 3: that the government in their charging did kind of have

506
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 3: Epstein in mind, that they didn't really get justice with it, right,

507
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 3: Like this is opportunity kind of to have a public

508
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 3: not a scapegoat, because he's guilty, I mean, for sure,

509
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 3: of being a creep and a jerk and an abuser

510
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 3: and a sex trafficker. Right, he's guilty of all those

511
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 3: things in my opinion, in my opinion, allegedly allegedly. But

512
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 3: you know, I just think they needed the lamb to slaughter, right,

513
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 3: I do think. I do think that had plenty.

514
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really interesting point. I'm so curious. I'm

515
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 2: a little lost in it a little bit. I know

516
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 2: how I felt. I know how I feel. I really

517
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 2: do feel for every victim who had to come forward.

518
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 2: And by the way, some of those details were just

519
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 2: so yuck for having to hear them, let alone say them.

520
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 2: And it does take a lot of courage. So is

521
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 2: there a hit on your back now because you know

522
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 2: because you raised your hand? I wouldn't. I don't know

523
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: the answer. I just I do love the conversation. If

524
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 2: Diddy is clean and living his best life and had

525
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 2: been overcharged and wants to be a good man with

526
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 2: his family, is that a thing? Does that count? Or

527
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 2: do the victims get to have another voice? I do

528
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 2: not know the answer here do I?

529
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know.

530
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 4: October third, we will know more because even though the

531
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 4: defense is going for time served, the prosecutors and interestingly,

532
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 4: the Probation Department reportedly are recommending a longer sentence, potentially

533
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 4: five or more years.

534
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 3: Wow. Well, we'll keep you guys updated and we'll be

535
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 3: looking forward to what happens October third. But coming up next,

536
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 3: Karen Reid is back in the crime headlines, this time

537
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 3: on her own accord.

538
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 2: Listen, very very good. We're going to go straight to

539
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 2: a live caller. Who do we have Adam Krla on

540
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 2: the line.

541
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 3: This is Ainsley calling in. Hello Ainsley, Hi, Ainsleie.

542
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 8: How are you.

543
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 2: Oh, it's great to have you here. Welcome, welcome, welcome,

544
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 2: talk to us. What's your question?

545
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 9: Thank you?

546
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 8: Yeah. So I was listening to the Idahole Mascer today

547
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 8: and you had that prison expert and they talked about

548
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 8: how the visiting's quite restrictive, and so I was wondering.

549
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 8: I guess my question is twofold. If do you think

550
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 8: there's journalists who are approaching Coburger and would those journalists

551
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 8: even be able to enter the prison to get an

552
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 8: interview from him?

553
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 3: Oh?

554
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 2: I have a strong feeling on it, do you What

555
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 2: is it? Yes, I think people are really entering. And

556
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 2: by the way, that's how this is done, right, There's

557
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 2: a person who's perpetrated a murder and then you want

558
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 2: an interview with them, because look, we're all curious. I'm

559
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 2: curious we have not done that because it just feels

560
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 2: so yuck to me.

561
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 3: But that's a personal choice.

562
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 2: But yes, I think that people are probably clamoring for

563
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 2: an interview with Brian Coburger right now, and to me, personally,

564
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 2: I don't really want to hear it. I want to

565
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 2: hear everything around found it to protect myself in the

566
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 2: real world from people like him, and I think his

567
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 2: stage is over. My two cents all that to be said,

568
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 2: I am so curious to hear what he would have

569
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 2: to say, so, you know, take it all with uh,

570
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 2: he said, She said, I don't know that's true.

571
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 3: I feel the same way like I. I'm very interested

572
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 3: in what he has to say, but I also don't

573
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 3: want to hear it. You like, it's the same I

574
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 3: double the same way. Yeah, it's a double edged I

575
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 3: do think that journalists, I agree with you that journalists

576
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 3: are probably reaching out to him. I think Brian Coberger

577
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 3: is not going to speak with a journalist. I think

578
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 3: Brian Coberger is going to speak to a criminal science

579
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 3: kind of person. Yeah, before he speaks to it. Maybe

580
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 3: I'm wrong, though, maybe you're one.

581
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: Hundred percent right. By the way, that is so right.

582
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 2: We know he's going to speak to his person by Ainsley,

583
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 2: great question, by the way, thank you. I would imagine

584
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 2: that he has been in conversations with you know, his idol,

585
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 2: and we've seen so much conversation and chatter about you know,

586
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 2: his professor and the science you know, all of that,

587
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,959
Speaker 2: that's probably what we will see, and that's probably what

588
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 2: people will watch. I just really am tiring of Brian Coburger.

589
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 2: I am too, And can you imagine me saying that never?

590
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, however, I do think if indeed, because you guys

591
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 4: put yourself back, it seems a really long time ago,

592
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 4: and it was not when finally he was sentenced and

593
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 4: led out and people were rabid for the.

594
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 2: Why I was by it. I'm exhausted by it, honestly.

595
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 2: It was so unsatisfying, and I think we were all

596
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,959
Speaker 2: on such high alert emotionally speaking, and by the way,

597
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 2: I feel that way even today for different reasons. It

598
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: was so how could he just walk away with not

599
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 2: giving us a why? How is there no alucution? How

600
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 2: was he not saying I'm sorry? How was he not

601
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 2: sitting there begging for mercy? This guy didn't seem to

602
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 2: care a tinge. So what are we going to get

603
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: from him? His truth?

604
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 4: He's a liar, right, And I mean that's what Prosecutor

605
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 4: Bill Thompson, that is what he had to say. That

606
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 4: was a big part of his rationale. And I have

607
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 4: such a closure from those victims' impact statements.

608
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 3: Which we watch the truth.

609
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 4: It was just that was sort of the closure and

610
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 4: peace hearing their piece about it.

611
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 3: Can I say something about the Bill Thompson thing. Yes,

612
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 3: and it might be unpopular, but I think he's full

613
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 3: of crap. You know, he said, I'm sorry, I.

614
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 2: Was not the way you phrased that. I was not

615
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 2: expecting that to be the landing.

616
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 3: Well, listen, he said, he said. The reason they didn't

617
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 3: ask for a reason or where the knife was, you know,

618
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 3: where the weapon was, and et cetera, was because you

619
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 3: know Brian Coberger would likely lie. Well, if Brian Coburger

620
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 3: is lying, you're going to know immediately because if you

621
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 3: if he tells you where the knife is and you

622
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 3: go and look and it's not there, well then you

623
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 3: know he's lying exactly. They didn't even try. They didn't

624
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 3: even try, you know what I mean. And it's just

625
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 3: so irritating to me that he's just like, well he's

626
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 3: a lyar. Well, I feel like you're lying to me

627
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 3: right now.

628
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 2: No, I know, And that is such a fair point

629
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 2: because you feel that in your bones a little bit,

630
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 2: like he doesn't resonate as authentic.

631
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 3: And imagine being the parent of one of these children.

632
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 2: I can't. And we, you know, we're so closely attached

633
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 2: to solve his family, and we're so closely attached in

634
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 2: terms of our hearts. So all of the family members

635
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 2: and their their various journeys on this can It's enraging. Honestly,

636
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 2: it's enraging. And now he gets to kind of collect

637
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 2: his thoughts and think about what he would say and

638
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 2: how this will be perceived and become a human science experiment.

639
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 3: My whole, my whole thing with that is that he

640
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 3: gets to sit in that cell knowing that people including

641
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 3: the parents and family members of these beautiful victims, knowing

642
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 3: I know where this knife is and this is a

643
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 3: secret that I can roared over them. I don't like that.

644
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 3: I don't like that. I don't like it either.

645
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 2: And we were talking about it a little bit last night,

646
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 2: and I'm getting all charged up again. I am now,

647
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 2: I'm all like, okay, I want to try to like

648
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 2: I'm trying to like cool my jets as a general tonight,

649
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 2: So am I being very like civilized. The photos make

650
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 2: me crazy too, that we just were talking about, not

651
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 2: even the ones about him, just seeing some of the

652
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: candid shots, even from victim's bedrooms that maybe we hadn't

653
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 2: seen before, or little Maddie's like things collected around her,

654
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 2: you know, window, and you know, I went through them

655
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 2: one at a time and was like, oh, I have

656
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 2: that same thing, or oh she would have this little

657
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 2: plant thing, and it just was such a reminder of

658
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 2: the lives that were just taken ba boom and like

659
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 2: this guy gets no more stage. But you know, the

660
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,720
Speaker 2: Gonzalvez family, like the all of them, the shape and family,

661
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 2: I mean, they've all had such different versions of how

662
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 2: they've healed, right, you know, you think about the Kernodle family,

663
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 2: even both parents have different perspectives and how this had

664
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 2: should have gone down. So it's just been a real

665
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 2: I think we've all emotionally as a nation, as a world,

666
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 2: have been on this journey with them. I hope they

667
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 2: feel the love of the family members as they kind

668
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 2: of push on or attempt to push on, and I

669
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 2: hope they.

670
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 3: Feel everybody's love.

671
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 2: And part of that love is not giving any more

672
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 2: to Brian Cobroger.

673
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 4: I do want to give one more thing to Bill Thompson,

674
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 4: who I don't know why I feel the need to

675
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 4: stand up to.

676
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,879
Speaker 3: Courtney, to sat up in her chair. She did, I did,

677
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,280
Speaker 3: She's going to give it to me and straight.

678
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 4: I think Jarrett Farentino, legal expert, analyst, prosecutor who was

679
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 4: on him, love him, and I think he had a

680
00:36:55,760 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 4: really good and accurate read on Bill Thompson of He

681
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 4: is a real measured guy. He's not a on the

682
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 4: more bombastic end of lawyer ring. And this was you know,

683
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 4: you may call it the path of least resistance, but

684
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 4: think of the resistance which he said he had to

685
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,280
Speaker 4: really weigh in his heart for all of the differing

686
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 4: families perspectives as you just laid out, and to not

687
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:26,439
Speaker 4: engage them in years what could have been decades of

688
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 4: their lives to what could be an unsatisfactory we could

689
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 4: have the exact same an answers after all this time.

690
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 3: So anyway, I agree with that one hundred percent agree

691
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,240
Speaker 3: with you on that, but I disagree that with his reasoning.

692
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 3: Well he just went have lied. Well you didn't even.

693
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 2: Try, right, I see both of you. I totally agree,

694
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 2: But the.

695
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 3: Plea I agree with, like, yeah, it saves the family

696
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 3: from in let's say, the death penalty moved and went

697
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 3: forward and he was convicted. Appeal after appeal after appeal

698
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 3: for them to sit in. It's it's horrific to think

699
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 3: about I one million percent I agree with you on that.

700
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 3: I'm not even upset by the plea at all, but

701
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 3: the fact that they didn't even try and then have

702
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 3: the audacity dis alsable because he would have lied. Okay,

703
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 3: well you don't know that, right, And.

704
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 2: Also just all of the behind the scenes negotiating was hard.

705
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 2: It was hard to hear that from the family's perspective, right.

706
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 6: I was just going to jump in and say, I

707
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 6: know I'm going to be the only one that feels

708
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 6: this way, but I would be curious to hear what

709
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 6: he had to say in an interview. I know everyone

710
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:28,879
Speaker 6: doesn't want to hear anything else to say, but there's

711
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 6: a side of me that always wants to try to

712
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 6: at least understand so that maybe moving forward, there's a

713
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 6: world where we can avoid something like this, Like he

714
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 6: came from such a normal type background and to do

715
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 6: something like this, maybe I could get like a glimmer

716
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 6: of some sort of information that helps me figure out

717
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 6: maybe how we can avoid something like this in the future.

718
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 6: I don't know.

719
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 2: I agree, And by the way, maybe I feel so

720
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 2: triggered I mean, listen, we've made the documentary, we've made

721
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 2: three seasons of the podcast. We've all been following it

722
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 2: so closely from day one. Yes, for me personally, I

723
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 2: was really defensive of Brian Coberger not being tried in

724
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 2: the media.

725
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 3: Like I was really like I was really.

726
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 2: Courtney, you know, had to hear me talk about it

727
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 2: literally all the time. I was always emotionally stirred behind

728
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 2: the scenes about are we trying this guy in the press,

729
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 2: and you know that's not our role. Granted, it's like,

730
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 2: you know, there were some things that in the early

731
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 2: days we could still really explain away, like okay, like this.

732
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 3: Guy was weird. Is that enough?

733
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 2: I don't know. Do we just like put every weirdo

734
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 2: and make them the assertion that they're a killer? We

735
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 2: were just talking about it earlier. The optics are hard

736
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 2: to come back for. I really was really, really stressed

737
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,359
Speaker 2: even when we were making the documentary. I can't tell

738
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 2: you how much sleep we've all lost making it, and

739
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 2: like we're not trying him in the press. We're not.

740
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 2: So then the guy's a liar and has been fooling

741
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 2: us this entire time, and he's a killer, and we

742
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 2: know that how much this his family is going through

743
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 2: and trying to heal from in the community, in the

744
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 2: town and the students that go to the school.

745
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 3: So I feel I'm so mad, I even know what

746
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 3: I'm saying.

747
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 4: Look, I'm sorry to sweat again, but it was the

748
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 4: right decision, as fun as it is to you know,

749
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 4: crucify people for sport that it shouldn't be done. That's

750
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 4: not the righteous or correct way to be. And there is,

751
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 4: you know, there is responsibility that comes on reporting and

752
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 4: doing docs and podcasts and standing on what is fact

753
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 4: and true versus wild conjecture is the correct way to

754
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 4: go because guess what, it all comes out in the

755
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 4: end and he is guilty and there it is, so

756
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:41,879
Speaker 4: you know.

757
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 2: His own admission, it's like, you know, we lived it

758
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 2: until the bitter end, so I guess there's a little

759
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 2: holdover on that. I'm like, wow, this guy really cut

760
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 2: the straight face and a lot of circumstances and light

761
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 2: to all of us, wasted so much money of you know,

762
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 2: the States time and the States money, and the family

763
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 2: was looking to I only get their justice, and by

764
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,240
Speaker 2: the way, their hearts have been ripped out beyond measure,

765
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 2: and it is so senseless, and the ripple effect of

766
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 2: the students that attend the school, like it seemed impossible

767
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 2: by the way.

768
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:12,720
Speaker 3: I also feel for the Coburger family.

769
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 2: The sisters got fire from their job, and the mom

770
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 2: that was like writing letters to school shooters and an

771
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:19,439
Speaker 2: open letter.

772
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 3: Like the story goes on and on and on.

773
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 2: Dad is driving trying to make his weird son make

774
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 2: friends and doing road trips left and right, like this

775
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 2: is tough stuff.

776
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 3: I feel bad for the classmates.

777
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 2: The classmates, they're all got no one's hearing them. According

778
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 2: to body, we all like we talked to people that

779
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 2: were in his class that were like, I don't know

780
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 2: they you know, they said everything was fine.

781
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 3: Yet the teacher the Ta.

782
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,800
Speaker 2: Was the killer and we weren't even on lockdown. Everyone

783
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 2: was looking at the other school in the killer was

784
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 2: my ta.

785
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 3: How does that make sense?

786
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 2: So it's just like his junkers, so many things my Ta.

787
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 3: But I made complaints about him because cord and following

788
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 3: me to my car and uckering over my desk and

789
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 3: dun't et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Like that's like

790
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 3: could I have been next to Like that's going to

791
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 3: be testifying for those people.

792
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 2: You know, the traumaticness of the fact that I could

793
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 2: have been next right, or maybe maybe he was practicing

794
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 2: because I was, you know, like it's a little narcissistic,

795
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 2: but it's also like a reality like that you could

796
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 2: think of like, oh my god, was he really imagining

797
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 2: that was me?

798
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 3: Or you know, like terrifying.

799
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,720
Speaker 2: And we also now know, based on what we've learned

800
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 2: post his conviction, that it was slightly random, that there

801
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 2: wasn't this deep connection, There wasn't like insurance at the

802
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 2: center of it, and oh there were squabbling over money

803
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 2: or they were ex lovers. Not that any of that

804
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 2: justifies anything, obviously, Captain obvious, but it was completely random.

805
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 3: Now realize you've just been in his class.

806
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 2: Getting c's and you have to go to dopey office

807
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 2: hours with the TA Brian Coburger, the teacher assistant, to

808
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 2: like up up your grade because you have to listen

809
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 2: to him drone on to you in the corner, and

810
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 2: you have to close the door behind you, one on

811
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 2: one with what we now know is a random killer,

812
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,479
Speaker 2: which people has been scared randomly killing people. What about

813
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 2: the neighbors that he was sneaking in their rooms? Potentially

814
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 2: and going in their houses and dipping out like.

815
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 3: The after people medicine cabinets.

816
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 2: Going through cabinets and just being weird have about the

817
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 2: family that's standing by him. That's like, look, God, I

818
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 2: thought he was a little weird like that, that weird,

819
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 2: like nobody thinks, right. So it triggers every scary movie

820
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 2: in our emotional like our nervous system.

821
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 3: Mine, at least mine, I should just own that it's

822
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 3: just mine. No, it does me too, and it makes

823
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 3: me be so scared a lot of people, of course,

824
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,760
Speaker 3: because it is random is scary.

825
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 4: You know, people think, oh, if I live whatever kind

826
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 4: of pure life I choose to live, and random Clown

827
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 4: just shows how to.

828
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:58,359
Speaker 3: Kicks that all away.

829
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 2: And now he's gonna sit down for an interview with

830
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 2: you know who, said person who's going to pay him

831
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 2: money or I know they can't do that, but like,

832
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 2: I don't know, give him cheetos.

833
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 3: For his dumb commissary and his vegan meals.

834
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 2: I know that's his right as a US citizen. I

835
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 2: do get that, body, and I hear you on that, but.

836
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:15,879
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that hare.

837
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:17,320
Speaker 2: You make a good point about it.

838
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 3: But sometimes I'm like that doesn't seem fair either. It's

839
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 3: I know it doesn't I listen. I'm not like a

840
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 3: Brian Coberger semino to the imagination. The randomness of it though,

841
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 3: the randomness of it is so scary because he's scariest.

842
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 3: He's the literal boogeyman right, exactly exactly scary, which is

843
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 3: what we set.

844
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 2: Out to disprove in the podcast, and it turns out

845
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 2: it was true.

846
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 3: Well, coming up, we're going to be getting into Karen

847
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 3: read I promise and she is back in the news.

848
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,280
Speaker 3: Plus true crime headlines of the day, including the list updates.

849
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 3: Keep it right here at True Crime Tonight.

850
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

851
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,800
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here, of course,

852
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 2: with Courtney Armstrong and Body Move in. Listen. If you've

853
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 2: missed any portion of the show so far, you can

854
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 2: of course catch it later as a podcast. Please do

855
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 2: and listen. We've been covering a lot of the cases

856
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 2: that are back. It seems like we've gone back in

857
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 2: time three months because we're talking about whether it was

858
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 2: Epstein last night or now Brian Coberger yet again in

859
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 2: the Idaho massacre and Diddy headed back to court next week,

860
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 2: so we'll be unpacking that tomorrow and until then, and

861
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 2: then also Karen Reid, Karen Reid is back in court. Courtney,

862
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 2: let's go.

863
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 4: Okay, this is going this is going to be so

864
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,879
Speaker 4: interesting and complicated. So we're going to do a top line.

865
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:55,879
Speaker 4: But this is something for sure we will be diving

866
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 4: into because there's many legs to this particular Karen read octopus.

867
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 4: So Karen Reid's attorneys, unsurprisingly have announced plans to sue

868
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 4: the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the police, and multiple individuals who

869
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 4: were involved in her criminal prosecution. And the allegation is

870
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 4: that her civil rights were violated. Now that further is

871
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:25,240
Speaker 4: complicating the wrongful death lawsuit filed against her by John

872
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:26,280
Speaker 4: O'Keefe's family.

873
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 2: She's basically saying, guys, you've stolen four years of my

874
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 2: life for a crime I now only did not commit

875
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: that I've been tried for twice and by the way,

876
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 2: I have lost my job, I've lost my place in society.

877
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 2: The money that has gone to pay for lawyers that

878
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 2: are extremely expensive. You guys were about to throw away

879
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 2: the key and leave me behind bars for the life

880
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 2: that was real. Karen Reid was really looking at that

881
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 2: and it was twice yes.

882
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 4: So Karen Reid, of course was acquitted. This happened back

883
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 4: in June of charges related to the twenty twenty two

884
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 4: death of her boyfriend, Boston Police officer John O'Keefe, and

885
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 4: she was alleged to have hit him with her car.

886
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 4: She was found not guilty of all charges except for

887
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 4: DUI I believe, but I worried, Oh, I was going

888
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 4: to say. Targets of the planned lawsuit include Brian Nicole Albert.

889
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 3: That's who owned the home that this occurred at.

890
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 4: Correct, correct, Jennifer and Matthew McCabe, the mccab's yep, and

891
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 4: Brian Higgins. And as you said, Stephanie, all of those

892
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 4: folks were at the house at the bottom of which

893
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 4: John O'Keeffe died, right, But that was very The circumstances

894
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 4: were absolutely crazy surrounding the investigation. The fact that John

895
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 4: O'Keeffe's dead body was found at the end of the

896
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 4: driveway at thirty thirty four Fairview Road, and all those

897
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 4: people I just mentioned were inside of it, and yet

898
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 4: no one was spoken to they weren't.

899
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 2: They didn't even search that house, did they No, they

900
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 2: didn't search the house, and then the house had some

901
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 2: construction done to it. And this is a reminder. Yeah,

902
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 2: So Karen and her then boyfriend, John O'Keefe, he was

903
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 2: like law enforcement, so beloved had an incredible family. Let's

904
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 2: just remember him. His sister died and his brother in

905
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 2: law died and he took in their children and was

906
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 2: raising them on his own. As you know an air quotes.

907
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 2: You know, single dad who had a girlfriend named Karen Reid.

908
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 2: And Karen Reid, they had a good thing going, they

909
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 2: had a nice relationship. They go at one snowy night,

910
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 2: tons of snow. It wasn't even snow, was straight up

911
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 2: like a lizard. Yeah, and they're all like, let's be honest,

912
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,359
Speaker 2: drunk skunks at the bar, all of them cops. So

913
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 2: it's John O'Keeffe and like all said people, and they're like, hey,

914
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 2: let's go back for after hours at my place. And

915
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,800
Speaker 2: they go back to my place at Courtney.

916
00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 3: The thirty four Fairview Road.

917
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 2: Yes, so they go back to that house and maybe

918
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 2: there's an after party that happens there.

919
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,280
Speaker 3: That's the alleged story. And they're all friends.

920
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 2: By the way, Karen's like a little bit of the

921
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 2: outsider from what it sounded like, but like the core

922
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:16,720
Speaker 2: group is buds. And then Karen pulls up with John O'Keefe,

923
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:18,919
Speaker 2: her boyfriend. They've all been super boozy at this point,

924
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 2: so totally drunk driving, which is awful. And they get

925
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 2: to the house and according to Karen, she's like, hey,

926
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 2: John's going to go inside, and she's a little ticked off.

927
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 2: She wants to go home just to call it a night,

928
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 2: and John's like, hey, I'm going to go inside, and then,

929
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 2: according to her, he doesn't return. She peels off, goes home,

930
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 2: doesn't hear from him, loses her mind, and then the

931
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 2: story goes body is discovered. What happened in that house?

932
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 2: Because if Karen Reid didn't actually hit him, which is

933
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 2: what she was accused of, and her tail light did

934
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 2: not actually strike his body and he was not in

935
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 2: fact killed by her vehicle and left for dead in

936
00:49:55,760 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 2: the snow, what happened where What happened? So did he

937
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 2: go into that party and maybe a fight happened? Was

938
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 2: there a fight amongst and I hate to say this,

939
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 2: you know it is pointing out law enforcement in this

940
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 2: case that we're all buds. And it's a very specific,

941
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,320
Speaker 2: you know, cru this is not a stain on all things.

942
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 2: But this crew was pretty tight and they were all

943
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,879
Speaker 2: party pants and did something the fairy has happened there

944
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 2: and they all covered up for it because that's what

945
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,800
Speaker 2: it looked like. And when you really break it down,

946
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 2: which we're about to see again frontline and center with

947
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 2: this new set of circumstances and Karen Reid's major civil lawsuit,

948
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 2: this is cash. She says, like, you guys tortured me,

949
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 2: and you guys all knew it, and you set me

950
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,319
Speaker 2: up and left me for dead in Boston's coming back

951
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 2: for you.

952
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 3: And I'm taking no names in fact, so.

953
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 4: All of your names are on my list, and the

954
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 4: list is longer than the people I mentioned. Additionally, Karen

955
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 4: Reid's legal team has announced countersuits against several of the

956
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 4: the key players in her case, Massachusetts police Brian Tullo

957
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,720
Speaker 4: and the fired trooper Michael Proctor.

958
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he got tossed out.

959
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 3: He got tossed remember he was like so tried about that.

960
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 3: I worry about the ripple effect. Courtney, you know of

961
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,399
Speaker 3: these other cases Brian Walsh for instance, Yes, the man

962
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 3: accused of killing and murdering and dismembering his wife, Sandra Birchmore,

963
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:25,240
Speaker 3: you know the girl that was killed. I worry about

964
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,319
Speaker 3: the cases that he handled, Michael.

965
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:32,240
Speaker 2: Bats that's so corrected. I'm so worried. And it really

966
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 2: speaks to protocol, right, so true. Less about law enforcement.

967
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:39,359
Speaker 2: I think the biggest issue here is protocol and where

968
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 2: did it get Lucy Goosey, Why in the lord's name

969
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:44,879
Speaker 2: has that house not been gone through with a fine

970
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,399
Speaker 2: tooth comb by law enforcement when somebody was found dead

971
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 2: at the front of it.

972
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 3: That wouldn't happen anywhere else. You think that's because it

973
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 3: was law enforcement law enforcement home of course.

974
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred and that's the accusation.

975
00:51:58,440 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 3: That's the accusation.

976
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 4: Well, but I mean the what happened in the investigation,

977
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 4: what is known? What is fact that happened in the investigation,

978
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 4: or rather that did not happen? Would support that, including

979
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 4: speaking to the people who own the house where a

980
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:15,760
Speaker 4: dead body is found at the end of the driveway.

981
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 2: Number one, They would never interviewed by the way, he

982
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 2: was like, I didn't even really go downstairs. I just

983
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,280
Speaker 2: picked my head out right Like they were never actually

984
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 2: interviewed that night.

985
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 3: That's correct. Oh, I thought they did. I thought they

986
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 3: went in the kitchen.

987
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 2: How about the other one that went off with the

988
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 2: car and was like, hey, we're going to go go ahead?

989
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 3: Court well also included in these.

990
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's going to be many lawsuits

991
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 4: or all in one, but Karen Reid is also planning

992
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 4: to sue the town of Canton and the police department

993
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 4: for negligence security, and that involves the garage in the

994
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 4: police sally port where key evidence was stored.

995
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:54,880
Speaker 3: Where that video was transport like trans correct correct?

996
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 4: Yes, People may remember this came up quite a bit

997
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 4: at trial, including the woman who worked there, whose name

998
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 4: I'm forgetting but.

999
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 3: Had never heard what a computer was before or in

1000
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 3: the sally or who she worked for. Yeah, that's right, yes, yes, Diver.

1001
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 2: That was like so controversial because you got her name

1002
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 2: wrong the first time. It was like devers slash diverse. Yeah.

1003
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 2: She was like, I do not have any idea what.

1004
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 3: You're talking here? Why am I even here?

1005
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:25,320
Speaker 2: What boss?

1006
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 3: What day? What car?

1007
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 2: What murder?

1008
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 6: She was?

1009
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 2: She really was out of hand, she was.

1010
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 3: I mean, it was so ridiculous.

1011
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 4: It actually turned to comedy for me at that point

1012
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 4: of her stand but that that speaks to you know,

1013
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 4: not police as a whole. But as you said, this

1014
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 4: specific what went on and what was not secured. So

1015
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 4: there's going to be a lot of lawsuits to follow.

1016
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 4: We will keep you updated on all of them.

1017
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 2: We have to.

1018
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,839
Speaker 4: And yes, and this is true crime tonight and we

1019
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 4: want to hear if you have any thoughts on Karen

1020
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 4: Reid or any Brian Colberger, who we discussed earlier, give

1021
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:05,280
Speaker 4: us a call eight at eight to three to one crime.

1022
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:09,399
Speaker 4: But now body, you are going to catch us up

1023
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 4: on Lisk Long Island serial killer.

1024
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 3: So Suffolk County judge has ruled that the alleged Long

1025
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 3: Island serial killer, Rex Huwerman, will face all seven murder

1026
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 3: chargers in a single trial, rejecting his defense's team's request

1027
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 3: to separate all the cases. Huerman's attorneys argued that the

1028
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 3: murders lacked like unique ties, a unique pattern, but the

1029
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 3: judge disagreed and also denied the motion to exclude that

1030
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 3: controversial DNA evidence. So it's giving listenlin I know we

1031
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 3: just talked about this. It's giving me coburger vibes because

1032
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 3: remember with Brian Coberger, there was denial after denial they had.

1033
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:56,280
Speaker 3: They denied the alibi, not the alibi, I'm sorry, the DNA,

1034
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 3: and then they denied the alternate perpetrator of it, and

1035
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 3: then a couple of weeks later we get a plea agreement. Right,

1036
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 3: So I'm getting these like the Spidey senses that there

1037
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 3: might maybe maybe there'll be some kind of flea with

1038
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 3: with Rex Humman. I'm hoping not because I'm hoping we

1039
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 3: actually get a trial out of this, but I'm getting

1040
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 3: like they're trying everything at this point.

1041
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:25,720
Speaker 2: Guy has wasted so much time. Also, I'm gonna Cobor

1042
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 2: Revibes times ten thousand again, innocent until proven guilty. But

1043
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:32,799
Speaker 2: we also have had the benefit of a lot of

1044
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,720
Speaker 2: information in this case, specifically.

1045
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:37,480
Speaker 3: Remember that checklist, Oh the checklist.

1046
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 2: And by the way, I grew up very close to

1047
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 2: this area, so it's a little deep to my heart.

1048
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,880
Speaker 2: And it's been that case that we've all talked about

1049
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 2: as long Islanders that is really haunting. And again, a

1050
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 2: regular guy doing a regular thing, taking this up, you know,

1051
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 2: the train to New York City to his architecture job,

1052
00:55:56,560 --> 00:56:00,319
Speaker 2: declining on you know comment and I didn't do it,

1053
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 2: And my wife loves me, my kids love me, and

1054
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:06,799
Speaker 2: this guy maybe he has in fact done it, and

1055
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 2: I find it pretty unsatisfying if he pleased. But my

1056
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 2: prediction he's going to play.

1057
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it might be coming. I think it might.

1058
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 3: And by the way, Long Island Press is speculating that

1059
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 3: that might be happening as soon as this end of

1060
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 3: this week. I did too, I really as well. It's

1061
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 3: just speculation at the moment. I don't want anybody out

1062
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 3: there listening to think that you know, a plea deal

1063
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 3: is coming or one has even been offered. But I

1064
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 3: do think that it's a possibility and that we should

1065
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 3: prepare for that. I really do.

1066
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:36,439
Speaker 6: Well.

1067
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 4: The judge really strengthened the defense's case by allowing jurors

1068
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 4: to hear all of the information on all of the

1069
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 4: cases at once.

1070
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 3: I mean that just seems the defense wasn't really not

1071
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 3: wanting that. So the Yeah, the court in the DNA

1072
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 3: evidence just a couple of weeks ago that you know,

1073
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 3: was kind of controversial and a DNA was basically built.

1074
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 3: And remember we had CC Moron and she told us

1075
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 3: about this great lab in California that basically built this

1076
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 3: DNA from these fragments and that had never been done

1077
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 3: in New York before, and it's it's now it's going

1078
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 3: to be case law. So this is like really important

1079
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 3: and important case. And so I'm hoping there is no

1080
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 3: plea agreement again because if there is, and maybe it

1081
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 3: won't be case law, right, and then they'll have to

1082
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 3: go back and try this again.

1083
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 2: Anyway, totally fair, By the way, that's a really that

1084
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 2: actually brings me a lot of comfort hearing you say that.

1085
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 2: It's a really good point, and I hadn't considered that.

1086
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 2: I just think of the victims, and I'm like, boy,

1087
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 2: I want him to have to face the amusement. So

1088
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 2: these guys that are like maniacs, which you know, Brian

1089
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 2: Coberger a maniac and a psychopath. This guy maniac psychopath

1090
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 2: you know, alleged right, yeah, yeah, allegedly you know true?

1091
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 2: What what good is it to listen to them drone

1092
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 2: on about what's doing If they plea out and now

1093
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 2: new things can be moved moving.

1094
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 3: Forward, that has value?

1095
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 2: And boy, well, I one thing I was a little

1096
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 2: confused about what would have been the benefit if I'm him,

1097
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 2: If I'm Humman Rex Humorman, the accused of trying each

1098
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 2: one of these cases individually, with that just a slog

1099
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 2: of time, and I guess get to go to court

1100
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 2: every day and just takes years and years.

1101
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 4: Well also, it's yeah, it's the totality. Sorry, but it's

1102
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,320
Speaker 4: the totality. And with all of the victims, you know.

1103
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:35,640
Speaker 4: The defense argued that, oh, there's not the same modus operandi,

1104
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 4: and there are small differences, but there are many consistencies.

1105
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 4: For example, the cell phone forriendships are incredibly powerful that

1106
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 4: track him with all these burner phones to and from

1107
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 4: work home.

1108
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 2: Victims, the victims phones, and this guy is murdering young girls,

1109
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 2: putting them in a burlin yeah, vulnerable lung girls, luring

1110
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 2: them off of dating apps and like sex apps and stuff,

1111
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 2: you know, a girl who then he just tosses like

1112
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 2: trash and the and on the beach and you know,

1113
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 2: and then gets up in the morning and goes with

1114
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 2: his daughter on the Long Island Railroad and goes to

1115
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 2: work to New York City in a.

1116
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,960
Speaker 3: Three piece suit with one of the victim's phones in

1117
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:23,439
Speaker 3: his pockets. Right, So yeah, y to your point though, Yeah,

1118
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 3: so in that in in the case where he traveled

1119
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 3: with one with one of the victim's phones in a

1120
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 3: case where those are tried separately, the jury would not

1121
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:36,439
Speaker 3: hear about that. Right a new jury, it would be right.

1122
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 3: So the totality of the evidence and the common threads

1123
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 3: throughout right that that they the jury needs to hear,

1124
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 3: and I think it's it's going to be detrimental to

1125
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 3: him in his defense. What a good point. Thank you

1126
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 3: for clarifying that for me. I know that's wrong. Way

1127
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 3: you're dred.

1128
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 2: Percent right, of course, you know, yes, you have to

1129
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 2: see the totality to understand the patterns and the things

1130
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 2: that if done separately, could get lost in the sauce.

1131
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 2: I think that's yeah.

1132
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 4: Thank you for clarifying, sure, because then it could be

1133
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 4: one or not all of them have a cell phone tide.

1134
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 4: But once you've seen it multiple times, then you know

1135
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 4: it becomes a patterner right, pattern, keep it here. Coming up,

1136
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 4: we have the latest with Sarah Grace Patrick and it

1137
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 4: is true crime and Chill. We're going to be unpacking

1138
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 4: one of the absolute wildest documentaries I've ever seen.

1139
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 3: Horrifying, Yeah, lover stalk or Killer.

1140
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 2: And listen, we're getting into so many of these stories

1141
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 2: that have been in our head for so long now,

1142
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 2: and they're all back in Court, Karen Reid, Diddy Eve Scene,

1143
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 2: I mean Long Island serial Killer, Like these are the

1144
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 2: ones that I feel like we've been talking about so long,

1145
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 2: for so long that it's they all seem to be

1146
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 2: coming to a head, either again or for the final time.

1147
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 2: So there's going to be so much to uncover tomorrow

1148
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 2: as well and well into next week obviously, So thank

1149
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 2: you for being with us.

1150
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 3: We're going to go straight to a talk that.

1151
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 9: Hey, ladies, it's Ainsley from Canada. I just listened to

1152
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:20,680
Speaker 9: your new podcast In Cells as well as this week's

1153
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 9: at a Home Massacre podcast, and I just want to

1154
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:27,080
Speaker 9: say I love them. I also listen to your Pikes

1155
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 9: in Massacre podcast and to anyone who hasn't, they should

1156
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 9: definitely go out and listen to that. That's probably one

1157
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 9: of my favorite podcasts I've ever listened to. You guys

1158
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:43,160
Speaker 9: have produced some awesome words. Keep it up, ladies, by.

1159
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 3: Wow Ainsley Night, I know my favorite Canadian.

1160
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, I will say this about In Cells

1161
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 2: because it's a world that we kind of are diving in.

1162
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 3: Really.

1163
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:59,400
Speaker 2: I think you know, Boddy, you're more educated probably than

1164
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 2: probably the state, but you know a lot more about

1165
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 2: this world and Courtney, we were kind of a little

1166
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:10,080
Speaker 2: further behind you, but we've been talking about it for

1167
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 2: years and years also, and you know, here we are.

1168
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 2: We had been working on it for a while, and

1169
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:21,160
Speaker 2: now suddenly the conversation is everywhere is about this, you know,

1170
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 2: the idea of what is this online world where people

1171
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 2: aren't getting radicalized and we're seeing a real time and

1172
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 2: the Charlie Kirk murders and what is happening. And it

1173
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 2: wasn't intentional that it was coming out exactly at this time.

1174
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 2: It's something we've been working on for a very long

1175
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 2: time and boy is it interesting.

1176
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 3: Well, it is interesting and important. There's a lot of

1177
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 3: terminology too that you know, it's so interesting because, like

1178
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 3: you said, the timing is really like wow. But there's

1179
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 3: a lot of terms that we talk about on the

1180
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 3: podcast in cells that you know, people don't have never

1181
01:02:55,440 --> 01:03:00,120
Speaker 3: heard before. Absolutely myself included sure, like black built and

1182
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 3: pilled and Stacy's and Chad's and like, you know, if

1183
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 3: you've never heard of these things before, you're you're you're

1184
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 3: watching the news because now these terms are have leapt

1185
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 3: from the computer screen onto like mainstream media and and uh,

1186
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 3: you know, it's I think it's a really good introduction

1187
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:20,480
Speaker 3: to this this terrifying world, and I am lucky to

1188
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 3: have been a part of it. So thank you, ah yeah.

1189
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 4: Thank you for everything you have to say on it.

1190
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:30,080
Speaker 4: And it has been wildly interesting, as you say, to

1191
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:34,960
Speaker 4: be watching the news while we're producing this and listening

1192
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 4: to the interviews, and you know, we do try and

1193
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 4: lay out all of the language because the language is

1194
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:43,440
Speaker 4: important to know. If you don't understand what people are

1195
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 4: talking about, you're not going to stand the problem.

1196
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 3: This certainly is no solution.

1197
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 2: And like we're seeing a lot of this right the idea,

1198
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 2: you know, Brian Coberger who was not self identified as

1199
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 2: an in cell, but somebody who was maybe online a

1200
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 2: lot and feeling disenfranchised and sort of outside of the

1201
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 2: universe of the real world world. And look what happened.

1202
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 2: And there's more examples of this that are you know,

1203
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 2: incredibly timely.

1204
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:08,919
Speaker 3: And again we.

1205
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:11,200
Speaker 2: Were talking about things, you know, even six months ago

1206
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:12,840
Speaker 2: that it was like, well, no one's going to understand this,

1207
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:13,920
Speaker 2: but we have to talk about it.

1208
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 3: Yet now it's on the ticker.

1209
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 2: It's happened when we were the Idaho student murders, the

1210
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 2: documentary too. It was like, it's crazy to be making

1211
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 2: something while it's all hitting the news real time.

1212
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 3: It was, it's kind of wild, really, can I can

1213
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 3: I share something? Of course, it's a little scary. Actually,

1214
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 3: I'm a little I'm a smidge frightened because when we

1215
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 3: decided to do this and you guys had you know,

1216
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 3: proposed it and whatnot, none of this had happened yet,

1217
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:43,680
Speaker 3: none of it had happened yet. And so now that

1218
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 3: things have progressed right in the world, and there's all

1219
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 3: these this news coming out and you know, foids are

1220
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:54,560
Speaker 3: being discussed as female humanoid terminology and black pilling and whatnot,

1221
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 3: and these are being tied to like real world assassinations. Right,

1222
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 3: I'm a little I'm a little personally afraid. Well, and

1223
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:07,880
Speaker 3: I think that I think if I say it out loud,

1224
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 3: it's going to go away, right, like shed light on.

1225
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:14,040
Speaker 3: I'm a little afraid. But I would be lying if

1226
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 3: I didn't see if I wasn't, you know, if I

1227
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 3: didn't say that I'm a little afraid.

1228
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:21,480
Speaker 2: I feel that I understand that, Yeah, I really do.

1229
01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 2: And I feel like we're kind of in that all

1230
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:25,560
Speaker 2: the time. It's like, how do you talk about the

1231
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:30,160
Speaker 2: dark things and shed light in these dark places, right.

1232
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:35,440
Speaker 3: Without getting caught up in it. Right, it's scary. It's

1233
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:36,960
Speaker 3: just a scary time that we're all living in. The

1234
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:39,560
Speaker 3: world is really heavy, right. I think we can all

1235
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 3: admit that, right, the world is really heavy under and

1236
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 3: we're all trying to navigate, right, We're trying to navigate

1237
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 3: it as best we can.

1238
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 2: And by the way to that end. And we had

1239
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:49,960
Speaker 2: talked about this so much before the show and around

1240
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 2: the show, and we talk about this all the time,

1241
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:54,440
Speaker 2: and I might be the nightmare exclusively in this.

1242
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 3: It's always like, can we talk about this again?

1243
01:05:56,640 --> 01:06:01,280
Speaker 2: Because it's something that has happened so recently. Even just

1244
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 2: you know, two weeks ago, with the assassination of Charlie Kirk,

1245
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:10,440
Speaker 2: we all witnessed a live murder. I mean, honestly, I

1246
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 2: work in true crime. We work in true crime. I

1247
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:15,080
Speaker 2: look at autopsies.

1248
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 3: All the time.

1249
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:18,840
Speaker 2: You know, I've been around a lot of death in

1250
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:21,320
Speaker 2: my own personal life. I've I've been in the room

1251
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 2: for death. I've touched a whole hole, held a hand

1252
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:28,440
Speaker 2: during death. I've seen bodies this I have never ever

1253
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 2: personally seen a human being being killed live and I

1254
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 2: don't want I didn't want to see that. And the

1255
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:40,479
Speaker 2: whole nation has now the world we've all collectively seen

1256
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:43,920
Speaker 2: something that is so horrible, and again our hearts are

1257
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 2: going out to his his his wife and his two

1258
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:49,840
Speaker 2: babies and their family, and I mean, the ripple effects

1259
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 2: is just it's actually I'm a little whirl, a little numb.

1260
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 2: I feel like I have like a low key layer

1261
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 2: of PTSD from what we have now witnessed that it's

1262
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:01,800
Speaker 2: almost too hard to cover. Even tomorrow, we're gonna have

1263
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:03,840
Speaker 2: a therapist on. We're going to have Jessica Kaplan here

1264
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:06,360
Speaker 2: marriage and family therapist to talk us through.

1265
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:08,000
Speaker 3: It a little bit, because I know we're not alone.

1266
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:10,520
Speaker 3: Jess knows best. Jess knows best.

1267
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:12,840
Speaker 2: So if you guys have any questions or something that

1268
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:13,960
Speaker 2: you want to work through.

1269
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:15,520
Speaker 3: But imagine those who have been.

1270
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 2: A victim of a violent crime or something involving those

1271
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 2: types of forensics, and how triggering it is for our

1272
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:26,920
Speaker 2: our whole communities are everybody.

1273
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:28,600
Speaker 3: The entire planet, the whole planet.

1274
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not normal for us now that it changes

1275
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:33,920
Speaker 2: your DNA and I wish that wasn't the case. And

1276
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know how to navigate it personally.

1277
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 3: I totally agree.

1278
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 4: I think speaking you know, in us, having a licensed

1279
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:46,760
Speaker 4: professional on is a step in the correct direction, and

1280
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 4: it's a hard place to step from. So that will

1281
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:52,520
Speaker 4: be tomorrow and that will be important. I wanted to

1282
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 4: update you guys on Sarah Grace Patrick. She is the

1283
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 4: fifteen year old she's pleaded not geill to charges of

1284
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 4: murdering her mother, Kristen Brock, only forty one years old,

1285
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 4: and her stepfather, James Brock, only forty five. This happened

1286
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 4: back on February, specifically February twentieth of this year.

1287
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:14,640
Speaker 1: And.

1288
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:20,720
Speaker 4: Sarah Grace is accused of doing this fatal shooting. And

1289
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:24,559
Speaker 4: then when she turned herself into authorities back in July,

1290
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:27,439
Speaker 4: it was after a warrant had been issued for her arrest.

1291
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:32,280
Speaker 4: She has entered the plea during a court appearance. Prosecutors

1292
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:35,759
Speaker 4: are moving forward with their case and the defense hasn't

1293
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:39,880
Speaker 4: spoken publicly about what its strategy will be, so people

1294
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:43,879
Speaker 4: are questioning, you know, what both sides, what their arguments

1295
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:50,679
Speaker 4: will be. People also might remember that Sarah Grace had

1296
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 4: allegedly reached out to true crime TikTokers and we did

1297
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 4: see her on social media platforms and she was sort

1298
01:08:59,880 --> 01:09:03,280
Speaker 4: of crying and grieving and speaking about this murder. So

1299
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:08,200
Speaker 4: this will be this will be one to watch. Authorities

1300
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:12,960
Speaker 4: say they have quote mountains of evidence against Patrick. Yeah,

1301
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 4: but but details have not been disclosed, so I don't

1302
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:19,080
Speaker 4: know if it's sort of close hold until trial, which

1303
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 4: is certainly their purview.

1304
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:22,840
Speaker 3: Where is she now?

1305
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:26,720
Speaker 2: So she's home, she's home with mom and dad. I

1306
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 2: think she's I don't think she's is she and dad.

1307
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:33,560
Speaker 3: Are dead, well, her father because it was her step.

1308
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:34,080
Speaker 6: Oh that's right.

1309
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:35,920
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right.

1310
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:39,439
Speaker 3: My apologies, Okay, yes, you're absolutely yeah.

1311
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 2: Regardless, It's like again, this is one of those cases

1312
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:45,559
Speaker 2: that's like so difficult, I know, I mean, how do

1313
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 2: you do that?

1314
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:52,160
Speaker 3: Like this is like right, that's what it's called Patrick's side? Yeah, yes, yes,

1315
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 3: and yeah, how do you come to terms with that?

1316
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 3: And the poor, the poor sister, the little sister.

1317
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:01,679
Speaker 2: That knowing that you're sister was going to find your

1318
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 2: mother and your stepfather regardless of the circumstances, and knowing

1319
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:06,840
Speaker 2: that your birth dad is going to have to go

1320
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 2: through the grief of having to urge you to turn

1321
01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 2: yourself in, or it was the grandpa like some she

1322
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 2: had to like know that her little sister was going

1323
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:20,000
Speaker 2: to be walking into this, this horrible scene.

1324
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:23,120
Speaker 3: Is there is there a world in which, you know,

1325
01:10:23,160 --> 01:10:24,599
Speaker 3: we live where she's not guilty.

1326
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:29,479
Speaker 4: Of course, she hasn't been tried that she's pled not guilty,

1327
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:33,320
Speaker 4: so so absolutely we we don't know how this will

1328
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:36,920
Speaker 4: play out. She is and will remain in custody as

1329
01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:41,559
Speaker 4: this process is moving. So that's correct. Okay, well, thank you?

1330
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:45,880
Speaker 4: And she Yeah, she's being tried as an adult. She

1331
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:50,200
Speaker 4: could face life in prison without role if she's convicted.

1332
01:10:51,080 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 3: Do you remember those weird tiktoks she made?

1333
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:57,120
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, where she was I almost want to revisit

1334
01:10:57,160 --> 01:10:57,840
Speaker 2: those right now.

1335
01:10:58,479 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, we can do that. I remember some of them.

1336
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:05,720
Speaker 3: So there were they. She was kind of If you

1337
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:10,680
Speaker 3: didn't if she wasn't accused of this or she you know,

1338
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:13,960
Speaker 3: if there wasn't this lens of speculation on did she

1339
01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 3: do it or not, then I think it would just

1340
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:18,120
Speaker 3: be that she was just being like kind of dramatic

1341
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:20,760
Speaker 3: for the camera. But looking back on it with the

1342
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:23,559
Speaker 3: lens of her being arrested for this crime, and whatnot.

1343
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:26,720
Speaker 3: It's kind of like eerie. She made these videos in

1344
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,800
Speaker 3: which she was like crying on camera saying that she

1345
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 3: missed her mom or she wanted her mom, and reaching

1346
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:36,680
Speaker 3: out to true crime influencers on TikTok asking them to

1347
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:40,160
Speaker 3: cover the case, and that wow, she has like knowledge

1348
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:43,240
Speaker 3: and kids, she'll talk to them and whatnot. And it's

1349
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:45,720
Speaker 3: kind of like looking, if you look at with the

1350
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:49,200
Speaker 3: lens of, oh my god, she might have done this, right,

1351
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 3: because she's currently in jail for it right now while

1352
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 3: you're waiting trial, then it's like, oh, creepy, creepy. But

1353
01:11:57,080 --> 01:11:59,439
Speaker 3: if you look at it with the lens of you know,

1354
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 3: somebody else did it and she's a victim, it's kind

1355
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 3: of like, oh, my heart goes out to her. She's

1356
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:06,040
Speaker 3: just a teenager and doesn't really know how to handle

1357
01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:07,040
Speaker 3: her emotions right.

1358
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:09,599
Speaker 2: Because she's just a girl, and it's playing out sort

1359
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:12,320
Speaker 2: of strange. But it did land a little odd, and

1360
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:16,200
Speaker 2: her eulogy landed, yeah, a little odd. You know, that's

1361
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:19,840
Speaker 2: the speculation certainly when she was speaking, when she was

1362
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:23,320
Speaker 2: speaking about her mother, you know, in these very dark times,

1363
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:28,200
Speaker 2: to be now accused for the murders of the people

1364
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:30,960
Speaker 2: that you were missing so much. It's a tough one.

1365
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:33,400
Speaker 2: Who else would have done it? Is it possible that,

1366
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:36,240
Speaker 2: again we talked a lot about origin stories yesterday, is

1367
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:38,880
Speaker 2: it possible that there was something happening. We're not accusing

1368
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 2: mom and the stepdad, by the way, nothing is nothing

1369
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 2: nothing nothing, nothing justifies that. However, was there something else

1370
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:51,559
Speaker 2: going on behind the scenes in the dynamic of her life,

1371
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,680
Speaker 2: whether that's at home or with friends or what have you,

1372
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:58,400
Speaker 2: that maybe lent itself to this crime and it doesn't matter.

1373
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:02,040
Speaker 4: So Kristin and James Brock what we do know of them,

1374
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:04,439
Speaker 4: They were active members.

1375
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:04,800
Speaker 3: Of their church.

1376
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:08,120
Speaker 4: They were largely reported on as very kind and generous

1377
01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:13,240
Speaker 4: and loving people by their community. I will say that

1378
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 4: Sarah Grace's maternal grandfather, he has suggested that dad stepdad James,

1379
01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:28,840
Speaker 4: that his past as a felon and alleged allegedly had

1380
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:33,120
Speaker 4: motorcycle gang ties could be connected. He's also a grandfather

1381
01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 4: who is defending his granddaughter and he is saying as

1382
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:39,679
Speaker 4: is fact that she is innocent until proven guilty.

1383
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 2: So wow, that's pretty I mean, we we're learning this

1384
01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:46,360
Speaker 2: through the Menendez brothers, So I don't know that's that's

1385
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:50,479
Speaker 2: distating this a lot in recent conversations that we've had

1386
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:54,559
Speaker 2: together is that, you know, a parent side is a

1387
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:58,200
Speaker 2: very rare thing. It's very unusual for a child to

1388
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:03,479
Speaker 2: murder parents without there being cause. There does typically seem

1389
01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:06,840
Speaker 2: to be some layer of abuse, whether it's sexual or physical,

1390
01:14:07,360 --> 01:14:11,920
Speaker 2: that has gone unnoticed or un it's not solved. We're

1391
01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:13,640
Speaker 2: not accusing that, by the way, this is just a

1392
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:17,240
Speaker 2: this is a parent side thing. There usually is some

1393
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:19,800
Speaker 2: some meat in the bones. So if we listen to

1394
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:22,799
Speaker 2: what the Menendez brothers say that there's an origin story

1395
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:25,559
Speaker 2: to be had. It doesn't have to be the family.

1396
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:30,160
Speaker 2: Maybe there was a million options. It could be friends,

1397
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:31,960
Speaker 2: it could be drugs. I mean, we're listening to David

1398
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:33,880
Speaker 2: the pop star and the thirteen year old like I

1399
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:39,360
Speaker 2: you know, we might not know enough context to assume

1400
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 2: that we should throw away the key on her.

1401
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:46,120
Speaker 4: We don't have enough context at all. I mean, any

1402
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:48,720
Speaker 4: of the things you just said or one hundred other

1403
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:50,639
Speaker 4: It could be completely random.

1404
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:54,000
Speaker 3: It could be mistaken identity. You know, there's there's no.

1405
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:55,960
Speaker 4: End to what it could be because we don't have

1406
01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:58,200
Speaker 4: the information motive.

1407
01:14:58,280 --> 01:15:01,240
Speaker 3: There has been no motive even pre nothing, nothing has

1408
01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:04,880
Speaker 3: make this case correct. It's so unique, Like normally we

1409
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:07,240
Speaker 3: would have like some kind of probable cause. I have

1410
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:09,639
Speaker 3: a David that we could go over and talk about.

1411
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:12,599
Speaker 3: But I haven't seen anything on this do we. It's interesting.

1412
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:15,200
Speaker 4: I wonder if it's not under sealed because if some

1413
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 4: of it is because she's a mining.

1414
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:21,160
Speaker 3: She's underage, but the fact that they're trying her as

1415
01:15:21,160 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 3: an adult, I would imagine comes into play a little bit, right.

1416
01:15:26,040 --> 01:15:26,479
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1417
01:15:27,280 --> 01:15:29,680
Speaker 4: It's a double edged sword with that, because yeah, where

1418
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:30,920
Speaker 4: where is that line?

1419
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:33,439
Speaker 3: I don't know. If you're being charged as an adult,

1420
01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:35,240
Speaker 3: then do you protect them as a minor or?

1421
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:38,519
Speaker 2: But there hasn't also been a ton of chatter for

1422
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:42,280
Speaker 2: friends or people in her world, her everyday life, the

1423
01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:44,120
Speaker 2: Barissa at the Starbucks.

1424
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:44,720
Speaker 3: That she typically goes to.

1425
01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:48,640
Speaker 2: You haven't seen to to to too much, So I

1426
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:51,080
Speaker 2: don't know. It's one again, another case that we'll be

1427
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:52,680
Speaker 2: following so closely.

1428
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:56,000
Speaker 3: Right, we'll keep you updated. Well, it's true crime and

1429
01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:59,400
Speaker 3: Chill time, and we're unpacking one of the literally wildest

1430
01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:03,200
Speaker 3: documentaries I've ever seen. And I'm seeing the worst one,

1431
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:07,519
Speaker 3: like the craziest ones imaginable. You are on a stalkert Killer,

1432
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:20,840
Speaker 3: keep it right here, True Crime tonight. So listen, it

1433
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:21,760
Speaker 3: is Wednesday.

1434
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:24,880
Speaker 2: It is True Crime and Chill where we're kind of

1435
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:27,000
Speaker 2: unpacking the watch of the week.

1436
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:31,080
Speaker 3: The watch of the week. Yes, I mean I never

1437
01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:31,960
Speaker 3: even thought of that one.

1438
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:35,120
Speaker 2: Is that a new phrase that I think it has?

1439
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:37,719
Speaker 6: The title?

1440
01:16:38,120 --> 01:16:46,160
Speaker 3: No? No, we can't change it was like parts I

1441
01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:48,320
Speaker 3: feel a smoke machine upon us.

1442
01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:51,200
Speaker 2: Boy, that was a big decision to get to True

1443
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:55,240
Speaker 2: Crime and Chills, so just an additive maybe. But anyway, listen,

1444
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:57,840
Speaker 2: as I'm saying this out loud, Courtney and Body are

1445
01:16:57,880 --> 01:17:00,240
Speaker 2: sitting up so straight right now, and now it'saha is

1446
01:17:00,280 --> 01:17:03,679
Speaker 2: too like it is like everybody's entering the ring to

1447
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:07,400
Speaker 2: talk about. Go ahead, Courtney, I don't want to steal

1448
01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:13,400
Speaker 2: the thunder Lover Stalker Killer, Dune dun dum dum.

1449
01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 8: Oh.

1450
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:18,280
Speaker 4: We all watched it, right, We all watched it masterpiece

1451
01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:22,439
Speaker 4: on Netflix and the Masterpiece spoiler alert.

1452
01:17:22,479 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 2: If you don't want to hear, then you should, good

1453
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:29,679
Speaker 2: idea because it is so true. You'll be so bummed

1454
01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:30,599
Speaker 2: if you know the intent.

1455
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:34,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. Although I actually know the case. You

1456
01:17:34,040 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 3: were right, I did know the case. You don't, Oh,

1457
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:41,000
Speaker 3: I knew it top to bottom. We did a crazy

1458
01:17:39,360 --> 01:17:43,080
Speaker 3: and she was always like, well you know the case.

1459
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:45,680
Speaker 2: I was like, everything you're telling me has I have

1460
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:48,840
Speaker 2: totally amnesia about. I have no idea. By the way,

1461
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:50,960
Speaker 2: I totally know the case. So but it still was

1462
01:17:51,040 --> 01:17:52,360
Speaker 2: equally as great of a watch.

1463
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:53,959
Speaker 3: So maybe not such a big spoiler.

1464
01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:57,440
Speaker 4: Yes, okay, so we're in Omaha, Nebraska.

1465
01:17:58,040 --> 01:17:59,040
Speaker 2: Oh oh, yes we are.

1466
01:17:59,200 --> 01:18:00,000
Speaker 3: Yes, there's a care.

1467
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:04,800
Speaker 4: He's named Dave Croopa and this guy became entangled in

1468
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:07,880
Speaker 4: a deadly love triangle. He meant two women on a

1469
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:11,840
Speaker 4: dating app. This happened back in twenty twelve, and by

1470
01:18:11,880 --> 01:18:12,720
Speaker 4: all accounts, he.

1471
01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:14,200
Speaker 3: Just seems like a really good guy.

1472
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:16,320
Speaker 4: And after watching this documentary, I just want to hang

1473
01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:19,559
Speaker 4: out and like have a bourbon meet him. He'd gotten

1474
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:21,280
Speaker 4: out of a really long relationship.

1475
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:22,479
Speaker 3: He was a devoted dad.

1476
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:26,360
Speaker 4: He moved to Omaha, Nebraska to be a real present

1477
01:18:26,439 --> 01:18:29,519
Speaker 4: dad in his kid's life. But he knew he's like

1478
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:31,920
Speaker 4: I am casually dating, and he made that really clear.

1479
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:34,960
Speaker 3: He did. He was very honest. He was so honest.

1480
01:18:35,320 --> 01:18:36,559
Speaker 3: Maybe had a bad picker.

1481
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:40,440
Speaker 2: He was so kind and clear and directional and intentional.

1482
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:43,280
Speaker 4: Well, listen, what started as a couple of clicks on

1483
01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:47,560
Speaker 4: a dating app turned into years of stalking, harassment, and violence,

1484
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:50,799
Speaker 4: and yeah, ended in betrayal and murder.

1485
01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:52,840
Speaker 3: So okay.

1486
01:18:52,880 --> 01:18:56,040
Speaker 4: In twenty twelve, David Krupa, the nice guy, he met

1487
01:18:56,080 --> 01:19:00,400
Speaker 4: a woman named Carrie Farber. Okay, excuse me, Farber. They're

1488
01:19:00,439 --> 01:19:04,559
Speaker 4: having a relationship, very casual. Literally only a couple of

1489
01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:09,920
Speaker 4: days after he started dating Carrie, he also was dating

1490
01:19:10,920 --> 01:19:15,280
Speaker 4: Liz Goiler, right, and there was a tense meeting. So

1491
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:18,519
Speaker 4: what did you guys think of this most awkward meeting

1492
01:19:18,680 --> 01:19:21,880
Speaker 4: that when Dave is on a first date with Carrie

1493
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:26,920
Speaker 4: Farvar actual date, then Liz comes by to get something.

1494
01:19:27,439 --> 01:19:32,679
Speaker 3: They stage five, Stage five clinger. Let me tell you something.

1495
01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:34,200
Speaker 3: If that happened to me, that would have been a

1496
01:19:34,200 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 3: red flag for me, immediate. I mean it should be

1497
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:42,080
Speaker 3: even if it was a coincidence. Listen, you just show

1498
01:19:42,120 --> 01:19:43,880
Speaker 3: up up my hand. It's just weird. I would have

1499
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:46,120
Speaker 3: been totally turned off by that, and I probably would

1500
01:19:46,120 --> 01:19:49,280
Speaker 3: have ended things right then and there. That's just mean, yeah,

1501
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:50,280
Speaker 3: the same way.

1502
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:53,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, that was the immediate one. Yeah, My whole issue

1503
01:19:53,479 --> 01:19:55,000
Speaker 6: with this whole thing is there were so many little

1504
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:56,400
Speaker 6: red flags, but that was the first one.

1505
01:19:56,400 --> 01:19:58,360
Speaker 3: I was like, but I feel like I feel like,

1506
01:19:58,360 --> 01:20:01,760
Speaker 3: to Dave's defense, you know, he was in a really

1507
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:04,519
Speaker 3: long relationship. He gets out of it, he's back to

1508
01:20:04,600 --> 01:20:06,679
Speaker 3: dating for the first time in a long time. He's

1509
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:11,519
Speaker 3: so sweet. He does seem kind of like a sweet guy, right,

1510
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:14,040
Speaker 3: And I feel like he just was like, okay, you know,

1511
01:20:14,160 --> 01:20:15,160
Speaker 3: like innocent mistake.

1512
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:18,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would have been right there with Dave hook

1513
01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:22,120
Speaker 2: line and sinker.

1514
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:22,680
Speaker 3: Flags.

1515
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:25,760
Speaker 4: You know, he'd never been on an online dating app,

1516
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:28,360
Speaker 4: he'd never dated, he'd been, you know, in a relationship.

1517
01:20:29,720 --> 01:20:31,840
Speaker 3: I've never been on a dating app either. Just the

1518
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:39,600
Speaker 3: way the timing worked out, trash trash lover, stock er

1519
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:40,320
Speaker 3: killer told.

1520
01:20:40,160 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 6: Her that crime.

1521
01:20:42,200 --> 01:20:43,679
Speaker 3: Okay, so we have that is.

1522
01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:49,160
Speaker 4: So we have this love trial these two women that

1523
01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:54,880
Speaker 4: Dave is casually dating. So Harry vanishes without a trace,

1524
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:59,639
Speaker 4: and she left behind all of her belongings, including medication,

1525
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:01,160
Speaker 4: and didn't show up for.

1526
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:04,040
Speaker 3: Work, right, Okay, And they've even dating a couple of

1527
01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:08,720
Speaker 3: weeks at this point, right, it's two weeks, very early saship.

1528
01:21:09,240 --> 01:21:15,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, So she leaves and then she starts texting

1529
01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:19,720
Speaker 4: him and it's these nasty things you're you know, you

1530
01:21:19,720 --> 01:21:21,600
Speaker 4: don't want to be with me, and I'm going to

1531
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:26,599
Speaker 4: ruin your life. And it appears that Carrie has gone berserk,

1532
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:30,839
Speaker 4: and not only is Dave getting all of these really

1533
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:38,200
Speaker 4: intense harassing and threatening physically messages, even Dave's X who

1534
01:21:38,280 --> 01:21:41,599
Speaker 4: he shares the children with, as well as the other one,

1535
01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:45,320
Speaker 4: Liz Goyler, the one who just they met chance meeting.

1536
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:52,040
Speaker 4: So they're all getting these messages. Okay, this escalates. There

1537
01:21:52,040 --> 01:21:54,120
Speaker 4: are break ins, there is vandalism, there.

1538
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:55,680
Speaker 3: Is person.

1539
01:21:56,920 --> 01:22:00,960
Speaker 4: The fire the fire, yes, and so what it appears

1540
01:22:01,080 --> 01:22:03,519
Speaker 4: is that Carrie, the one who vanished as and has

1541
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:08,479
Speaker 4: been harassing like a hundred times a day sometimes and

1542
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:13,599
Speaker 4: was particularly jealous of it appeared Liz, who Liz right,

1543
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:17,480
Speaker 4: David had been casually dating Liz's house.

1544
01:22:17,320 --> 01:22:19,639
Speaker 3: With her animals. She's an animal love eight.

1545
01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:24,920
Speaker 4: It goes on fire, and it's thought only makes sense

1546
01:22:24,960 --> 01:22:27,320
Speaker 4: that Carrie is the one who did it.

1547
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:30,519
Speaker 3: Because Liz is also getting harassed right with these text messages,

1548
01:22:31,720 --> 01:22:34,080
Speaker 3: Like David and her are sitting there watching a movie

1549
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:37,080
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, she's getting text messages from

1550
01:22:37,200 --> 01:22:40,280
Speaker 3: you know this Carrie, you know, harassing her like just

1551
01:22:40,280 --> 01:22:44,120
Speaker 3: because you know, apparently it looks like, you know, she's

1552
01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:47,040
Speaker 3: just really jealous of Liz, right, and you're like, oh

1553
01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:51,320
Speaker 3: my god, this lady's crazy. You're as you're watching it anyway, okay, oh,

1554
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:56,200
Speaker 3: I know watching it all over.

1555
01:22:55,320 --> 01:22:59,840
Speaker 2: It's a complicated story to it. It's a nice job

1556
01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:01,599
Speaker 2: for at Armstrong because it's a hard one.

1557
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:05,200
Speaker 4: It's a compla It was very complicated. So this went

1558
01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:10,120
Speaker 4: on for literal years. We have Liz's house has been

1559
01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:13,920
Speaker 4: burnt down, and then Dave and his poor X with

1560
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:19,719
Speaker 4: the children are being absolutely tormented. What it turns out,

1561
01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:23,840
Speaker 4: and this has took five entire years, was that Liz,

1562
01:23:24,680 --> 01:23:27,800
Speaker 4: the woman whose house was burned down with her animals

1563
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:32,920
Speaker 4: inside of it, she had been pretending to be Carrie

1564
01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:38,240
Speaker 4: this entire time and digitally harassing herself so Dave would

1565
01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:41,160
Speaker 4: feel that they were so had to go, but going

1566
01:23:41,240 --> 01:23:43,000
Speaker 4: so far as to burn her house on fire with

1567
01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:43,920
Speaker 4: her animals inside.

1568
01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:49,519
Speaker 2: It's also I thought it was Kendra from an unknown

1569
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:50,599
Speaker 2: caller blowing eye.

1570
01:23:50,600 --> 01:23:54,920
Speaker 3: I was like, wait, did Kendra just show up? Beginning

1571
01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:59,640
Speaker 3: she had it again? But no, it was even more insane.

1572
01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:01,520
Speaker 6: And messages were horrific.

1573
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:06,479
Speaker 3: So all these yeah, all these harassing and horrible things

1574
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:11,439
Speaker 3: were coming from Liz, and she was setting up Carrie

1575
01:24:11,680 --> 01:24:15,680
Speaker 3: to she was ruining her reputation. She you know, obviously

1576
01:24:15,720 --> 01:24:19,040
Speaker 3: had her cell phone. So where's Carrie? Right, You're like, oh,

1577
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:21,960
Speaker 3: my god, okig, what's going on here? Exactly?

1578
01:24:23,080 --> 01:24:27,960
Speaker 4: Very very very sadly, it turns out that Liz had

1579
01:24:28,400 --> 01:24:34,679
Speaker 4: murdered Carrie after meeting her for about thirty seconds rights

1580
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:37,880
Speaker 4: in a hallway at Dave's. It was the most chance meeting.

1581
01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:43,519
Speaker 4: And this woman, Liz lost her brains, killed this poor

1582
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:49,160
Speaker 4: woman and then dragged her reputation for five years.

1583
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:52,640
Speaker 3: Wow, and go ahead, no you go. I was just

1584
01:24:52,680 --> 01:24:54,880
Speaker 3: going to say. They when they finally figured it out,

1585
01:24:54,920 --> 01:24:57,280
Speaker 3: it was because they got a search warrant. They got

1586
01:24:57,320 --> 01:25:02,479
Speaker 3: her tablet, remember cops, they get Liz's electronics and they

1587
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:06,479
Speaker 3: go through it, and she had taken photos of the.

1588
01:25:06,479 --> 01:25:09,120
Speaker 6: Murder, like the foot or something.

1589
01:25:09,080 --> 01:25:13,920
Speaker 3: Yes, of Carrie's you know, body, and then they found

1590
01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:17,719
Speaker 3: all that blood in the car in her car seat,

1591
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:19,360
Speaker 3: remember in her car seat.

1592
01:25:19,960 --> 01:25:23,720
Speaker 6: My god, underneath the material I mean the detectives that

1593
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:26,280
Speaker 6: were looking into this though, kudas to them, because they

1594
01:25:26,479 --> 01:25:29,080
Speaker 6: amazing really stuck with it. That's what stood up to

1595
01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:31,599
Speaker 6: me the most, Like had this been in the hands

1596
01:25:31,600 --> 01:25:33,599
Speaker 6: of some detectives who are like, oh wow, I'm moving

1597
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:36,640
Speaker 6: on these guys like they were not giving up and

1598
01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:37,559
Speaker 6: thank god they didn't.

1599
01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:40,360
Speaker 2: But right they almost have like a Spidey sense. It

1600
01:25:40,479 --> 01:25:43,519
Speaker 2: seems to like, how what did you guys take away? Like,

1601
01:25:44,280 --> 01:25:46,880
Speaker 2: what is the takeaway from this mess?

1602
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:51,840
Speaker 4: I love, I felt so sorry for Dave and everyone involved,

1603
01:25:52,320 --> 01:25:55,680
Speaker 4: and I just I really adored him, even when he

1604
01:25:55,760 --> 01:25:59,400
Speaker 4: intersaced himself, and I moved Amaha to be with my kids,

1605
01:25:59,479 --> 01:26:02,840
Speaker 4: and I got a job turn in wrench because I

1606
01:26:02,880 --> 01:26:05,719
Speaker 4: turned wrench andm a mechanic, and I just I found

1607
01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:09,160
Speaker 4: him so charming and innocent and tortured. I mean, he

1608
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:13,120
Speaker 4: said he was almost driven insane, as was his ex

1609
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:17,080
Speaker 4: by this horrible situation. So I take that away and

1610
01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:20,240
Speaker 4: give big ups to the forensics.

1611
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:22,640
Speaker 6: That, yeah, that stood out to me. I think just

1612
01:26:22,800 --> 01:26:25,920
Speaker 6: my takeaway is like, you know, sometimes there's an inner

1613
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:28,240
Speaker 6: voice that says this is weird, or like something like

1614
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:31,800
Speaker 6: maybe how we're saying that that cross path of the

1615
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:35,280
Speaker 6: two women early on seems strange. Maybe start listening to

1616
01:26:35,320 --> 01:26:37,720
Speaker 6: my inner voice all the time, like, you know, you

1617
01:26:37,840 --> 01:26:41,160
Speaker 6: got something weird that I feel I'm going to listen

1618
01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:43,879
Speaker 6: to that. So that was that was my takeaway. Maybe

1619
01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:45,000
Speaker 6: it's not true.

1620
01:26:45,240 --> 01:26:50,200
Speaker 3: Mine was like, how how you know technology and your

1621
01:26:50,240 --> 01:26:55,160
Speaker 3: ID you know, identity and perception can be really manipulated

1622
01:26:55,320 --> 01:26:58,840
Speaker 3: pretty easily as long as you have something like you know,

1623
01:26:59,000 --> 01:27:03,400
Speaker 3: Carrie had I'm sorry now Liz had Carrie's phone. So

1624
01:27:03,600 --> 01:27:07,360
Speaker 3: poor Carrie, the victim here is been re victimized and

1625
01:27:07,400 --> 01:27:11,080
Speaker 3: made to look like an insane person to everyone, right

1626
01:27:11,200 --> 01:27:14,200
Speaker 3: even her family by the way, wow, because they didn't

1627
01:27:14,200 --> 01:27:17,160
Speaker 3: know where she was. I mean, it was it's just

1628
01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:20,880
Speaker 3: how easily things can be manipulated by one piece of evidence.

1629
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:23,599
Speaker 3: And this one piece of evidence was the phone that

1630
01:27:23,640 --> 01:27:29,120
Speaker 3: Liz had. Like Carrie's entire life like vanished because of

1631
01:27:29,240 --> 01:27:34,599
Speaker 3: Liz manipulating everyone in Carrie's life. And it's just it really,

1632
01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:37,040
Speaker 3: it was just really eye opening to me on how

1633
01:27:37,080 --> 01:27:40,920
Speaker 3: easily things can be manipulated by one thing. And it

1634
01:27:40,960 --> 01:27:42,080
Speaker 3: was really terrible.

1635
01:27:42,240 --> 01:27:47,920
Speaker 4: Carrie's mother, the victim's mother, is really her connection with

1636
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:50,479
Speaker 4: the officers is I think what really helped propel them

1637
01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:53,479
Speaker 4: and Henry and so many officers do say this, it's

1638
01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:57,120
Speaker 4: talking with the victims' families, who again, Carrie at this

1639
01:27:57,240 --> 01:28:02,360
Speaker 4: time was being portrayed to be horrible human being, but

1640
01:28:02,400 --> 01:28:06,280
Speaker 4: they said that they connected with the mother and really

1641
01:28:06,360 --> 01:28:08,680
Speaker 4: just thought of what it isn't what it looks like,

1642
01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:13,360
Speaker 4: and yeah, that's just it was. It was touching to

1643
01:28:13,479 --> 01:28:17,320
Speaker 4: me how much work and time and years of effort.

1644
01:28:17,479 --> 01:28:19,880
Speaker 6: That they put into it. When they the guy who

1645
01:28:20,000 --> 01:28:23,439
Speaker 6: was doing the digital forensics, when he was really digging

1646
01:28:23,479 --> 01:28:26,760
Speaker 6: deep into looking for her the way, he was amazing.

1647
01:28:26,920 --> 01:28:28,360
Speaker 6: I thought of you, body, and I was going to

1648
01:28:28,400 --> 01:28:30,080
Speaker 6: ask you, like, I don't know if you know off

1649
01:28:30,120 --> 01:28:31,720
Speaker 6: the top of your head, but like, is there a

1650
01:28:31,720 --> 01:28:34,040
Speaker 6: way to protect yourself a little bit from like, you know,

1651
01:28:34,200 --> 01:28:36,439
Speaker 6: these people? I know this is like on the spot,

1652
01:28:36,479 --> 01:28:39,360
Speaker 6: but like I thought, Okay, the guy got a different

1653
01:28:39,400 --> 01:28:42,240
Speaker 6: phone number, but she was still able to find it, Like,

1654
01:28:42,920 --> 01:28:45,160
Speaker 6: is there a way do we know any world where

1655
01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:45,439
Speaker 6: you can.

1656
01:28:45,479 --> 01:28:47,800
Speaker 3: Well she was able to find it because she was

1657
01:28:48,200 --> 01:28:50,320
Speaker 3: like dating him, right, she was his life. She was

1658
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:53,799
Speaker 3: in his life. No, I mean not really.

1659
01:28:54,640 --> 01:28:56,680
Speaker 6: So there's nothing that poor Dave could have done.

1660
01:28:56,880 --> 01:28:59,080
Speaker 3: They didn't do anything was and Dave did everything right

1661
01:28:59,200 --> 01:29:02,960
Speaker 3: in my opinion, except for uh, not getting that red

1662
01:29:02,960 --> 01:29:05,080
Speaker 3: flag early on when was just kind.

1663
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:05,519
Speaker 6: Of showed up.

1664
01:29:05,640 --> 01:29:08,840
Speaker 3: But I mean in reality, Dave did everything right. Yeah,

1665
01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:13,440
Speaker 3: he he really did. He protected his kids. He I

1666
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:15,479
Speaker 3: like you, Courtney, my heart really went out to Dave.

1667
01:29:15,520 --> 01:29:18,720
Speaker 3: I felt very strongly about protecting him a little bit,

1668
01:29:18,840 --> 01:29:22,040
Speaker 3: you know, like I felt terrible for him. He felt betrayed,

1669
01:29:22,200 --> 01:29:25,719
Speaker 3: and you know, he he talked about the psychological toll

1670
01:29:26,160 --> 01:29:30,760
Speaker 3: of this constant uncertainty, paranoia and not knowing what was real, right,

1671
01:29:31,240 --> 01:29:36,800
Speaker 3: like his entire reality was shattered. Oh, I just I

1672
01:29:36,840 --> 01:29:39,360
Speaker 3: just felt I just felt like very raw about him,

1673
01:29:39,400 --> 01:29:42,080
Speaker 3: about what happened to him. I just it was very upsetting.

1674
01:29:42,479 --> 01:29:45,040
Speaker 3: Like I'm never going no, yeah, I know.

1675
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:47,320
Speaker 6: That now I'm afraid to do anything or talk to him.

1676
01:29:47,360 --> 01:29:53,000
Speaker 2: I know many people fline, so let that that be

1677
01:29:53,080 --> 01:29:53,920
Speaker 2: a total deterrent.

1678
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:55,320
Speaker 3: This is a rare truth.

1679
01:29:55,600 --> 01:29:57,920
Speaker 2: And you met them, and you do have to meet

1680
01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:00,559
Speaker 2: in public, and don't go to anybody's house and first date.

1681
01:30:00,840 --> 01:30:06,320
Speaker 2: I mean, there's some basics. Do not go to anyone's house, yes.

1682
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:08,360
Speaker 3: Never, and never let them pick you up. Meet them

1683
01:30:08,400 --> 01:30:12,600
Speaker 3: there and tell people where you're going exactly.

1684
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:15,599
Speaker 2: You can have your friend, like one of you guys

1685
01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:17,880
Speaker 2: as the fan caller, you know, like oh, you know,

1686
01:30:18,120 --> 01:30:20,120
Speaker 2: just like a check in or whatever, but there are

1687
01:30:20,360 --> 01:30:21,880
Speaker 2: some very I gotta go.

1688
01:30:22,040 --> 01:30:23,760
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, I forgot I had to go to

1689
01:30:23,800 --> 01:30:24,360
Speaker 3: the airport.

1690
01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:28,680
Speaker 2: Oh shoot, I gotta go. But yeah, I mean it's

1691
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:30,360
Speaker 2: so true. And by the way, if you're Dave and

1692
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:32,519
Speaker 2: you don't really hear about these types of stories because

1693
01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:36,040
Speaker 2: you're not listening to or any of these crime shows,

1694
01:30:36,040 --> 01:30:39,799
Speaker 2: like he's like just thinking like a kind normal person,

1695
01:30:40,120 --> 01:30:42,320
Speaker 2: not realizing what red flags even are.

1696
01:30:42,880 --> 01:30:45,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true because he hadn't dated and so yeah,

1697
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:50,200
Speaker 3: he's in the wild world. You wouldn't unless you're unless

1698
01:30:50,240 --> 01:30:53,320
Speaker 3: you're experienced, right, and you only get that experience by

1699
01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:56,479
Speaker 3: dating interact point, You're right, a lot of people do

1700
01:30:56,520 --> 01:30:59,280
Speaker 3: meet online. It's kind of like the new grocery store. Sure,

1701
01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:00,720
Speaker 3: so we shouldn't be so bitter.

1702
01:31:01,280 --> 01:31:04,960
Speaker 6: Well, whoever recommended this, I can officiate.

1703
01:31:05,160 --> 01:31:05,479
Speaker 2: I have.

1704
01:31:05,960 --> 01:31:09,920
Speaker 3: I'm able to officiate weddings. Are you really if we

1705
01:31:09,960 --> 01:31:10,360
Speaker 3: want to.

1706
01:31:10,320 --> 01:31:12,760
Speaker 2: Do one internal happy to do it.

1707
01:31:13,040 --> 01:31:13,799
Speaker 3: I just propose.

1708
01:31:14,320 --> 01:31:16,040
Speaker 4: Well, no, now they're going to have to pick. Is

1709
01:31:16,080 --> 01:31:23,599
Speaker 4: it going to be me or Stephanie? Yeah, we're both official. Yeah,

1710
01:31:23,640 --> 01:31:27,280
Speaker 4: we're both officians at heart. I would choose Courtney, but

1711
01:31:27,800 --> 01:31:30,320
Speaker 4: I would choose Courtney, but I will be.

1712
01:31:30,280 --> 01:31:32,240
Speaker 3: The best party planner, I promise.

1713
01:31:32,479 --> 01:31:34,920
Speaker 2: Listen everybody, it's been an amazing night. We will be

1714
01:31:35,000 --> 01:31:38,080
Speaker 2: back tomorrow Barry more. Few lots of updates on that

1715
01:31:38,200 --> 01:31:41,519
Speaker 2: as well. Lots to discuss there. This is true crime tonight.

1716
01:31:41,560 --> 01:31:43,439
Speaker 2: We're talking true crime all the time.

1717
01:31:43,680 --> 01:32:00,560
Speaker 3: Be safe.