Speaker 1: Hey, there, folks, it is Thursday, May seventh.
Speaker 2: Then are we closer to ending any controversy over how
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein died now that a suicide note purportedly from
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein has been made public and there are plenty
Speaker 2: of reasons in there to believe it is authentic, And
Speaker 2: with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ.
Speaker 2: First things verse ropes does this now not going to
Speaker 2: say it ends it, but does this get closer to
Speaker 2: leaning in that direction in this conversation to say, Okay, yes,
Speaker 2: this man killed himself.
Speaker 3: I think so. I think for people who were on
Speaker 3: the fence, and I think I might have been in
Speaker 3: that category, and just leaving space open for the fact
Speaker 3: that I don't know, We don't know. There are just
Speaker 3: a lot of questions surrounding his death, and given what
Speaker 3: information he probably had that could have come out in trial,
Speaker 3: it makes sense those conspiracy theories are still alive and
Speaker 3: have been for seven years now nearly. But this note
Speaker 3: does to me make it seem highly likely that yes,
Speaker 3: he tried it once and then he was successful a
Speaker 3: few weeks later, Because this note looks like his handwriting
Speaker 3: and sounds like the other bits of writing we've seen
Speaker 3: from him, how he talks, how he texts.
Speaker 2: We're gonna read you the text of this note. Robes,
Speaker 2: let's go, you know what this was in twenty nineteen
Speaker 2: when he died. Usually, let's not set this up. We're
Speaker 2: gonna let you hear it and then we'll break it down.
Speaker 2: But Robes, this, of course, twenty nineteen is when he died.
Speaker 2: There was He did have a cell mate who is
Speaker 2: a quadruple murderer who's been convicted. And this is the
Speaker 2: guy we're getting all this information from. He said he
Speaker 2: found this note. But it's been under seal all of
Speaker 2: these years. We'll get into why it came out, why
Speaker 2: it came out now, and we'd been talking about this.
Speaker 1: But Robes, here it is.
Speaker 2: Let folks hear first what this note actually says, again
Speaker 2: from Jeffrey Epstein, apparently a suicide note in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is scrawled in handwriting on a yellow lined
Speaker 3: piece of paper. They investigated me for a month, found nothing.
Speaker 3: Nothing is in all caps with three exclamation points. So
Speaker 3: sixteen year old charges it is a treat to be
Speaker 3: able to choose one's time to say goodbye. What you
Speaker 3: want me to do burst out crying all in caps, next,
Speaker 3: no fun, not worth it to exclamation points. Look, it's
Speaker 3: not signed, it's not dated, but it certainly sounds like. Look,
Speaker 3: we have gotten from the Epstein files dump a lot
Speaker 3: of his writings and a lot of the way he
Speaker 3: speaks when he writes things out, and what his handwriting
Speaker 3: looks like. Doesn't this sound familiar based on all of
Speaker 3: those other documents that you've seen and read.
Speaker 2: No, no, not for me. Now, others who have been
Speaker 2: studying those longer tell me that those are phrases that
Speaker 2: he used consistently. Bust out crying, that's a strange thing.
Speaker 2: You wouldn't hear a sixty year old man necessarily using that.
Speaker 2: That's unique fun, just throwing fun in the way.
Speaker 1: What's the phrase I.
Speaker 3: Do you no fun, not worth it?
Speaker 2: Okay, that's not digain that sixty year old do? You
Speaker 2: don't necessarily think it would stand out if you heard
Speaker 2: somebody is a talking like this. Now, other folks who
Speaker 2: have been going through the Epstein files and the Epstein
Speaker 2: Dump for months recognize those phrases. Yes, and they say
Speaker 2: absolutely that I don't think that's like a coincidence.
Speaker 1: Bros. That's not just a common phrase folks just throw
Speaker 1: out no.
Speaker 3: And look, his cellmate claims that his lawyers had handwriting
Speaker 3: experts authenticate the note. And there's a reason why his
Speaker 3: cellmate had a vested interest in this note, and we
Speaker 3: can explain all of that and how it came about.
Speaker 3: So this federal judge unsealed and released this unverified, alleged
Speaker 3: Jeffrey Epstein suicide note because the New York Times asked
Speaker 3: this judge to The New York Times asked this judge
Speaker 3: to do so because of two things. Yes, they heard
Speaker 3: what his former cellmate had said on a podcast, and
Speaker 3: they say in that DOJ document dump with millions of documents,
Speaker 3: they saw a reference, A veiled reference is how they
Speaker 3: described it, to a possible suicide note. So with those
Speaker 3: two references, they went to the judge to ask for
Speaker 3: this note to be uncil.
Speaker 2: So these documents, the Epstein document started being released at
Speaker 2: the end of last year, millions of stuff coming out
Speaker 2: publicly from the DOJ.
Speaker 1: But the DOJ say, what, there's a suicide note. Rose.
Speaker 1: That was wild to me that they were.
Speaker 2: After all this back and foot one of the biggest
Speaker 2: centers of the controversy, and one of the biggest questions
Speaker 2: is whether or not he had actually killed himself. And
Speaker 2: the DOJ and all of this time. What there's a
Speaker 2: suicide note.
Speaker 1: That's wild.
Speaker 3: It's disturbing, is what it is. The spokesperson told The
Speaker 3: New York Times that they had never seen this note before.
Speaker 3: That is crazy. So how did this suicide note end
Speaker 3: up in Nicholas Tartaglione? Is that how you say his
Speaker 3: a Tartan Tartaglioni. That's how it is, Nicholas Tartaglioni. How
Speaker 3: did it end up in his case file sealed?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 3: Because Tartaglioni says he found the note in his graphic novel.
Speaker 1: He said, you just love that detail for some reason.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because of course he put it in a graphic novel.
Speaker 3: Isn't that also part of I guess it's authenticity that
Speaker 3: that's exactly where Jeffrey Epstein would put an alleged suicide note.
Speaker 3: But look, this is what his cellmates said on the podcast.
Speaker 3: He said, Jeffrey Epstein tried killing himself when he was
Speaker 3: in the cell with me. I woke up, I brought
Speaker 3: him back with CPR and to prove this point, Jeffrey
Speaker 3: Epstein wrote a suicide note. It was in my book. Yeah,
Speaker 3: when I got back into the cell, I opened my
Speaker 3: book to read and there it was, and he wrote
Speaker 3: it and stuck it in the book. So this is
Speaker 3: what he says on the podcast, and he says he
Speaker 3: gave the note to his lawyers in case Epstein continued
Speaker 3: to claim that he attacked him, because that is what
Speaker 3: Epstein initially said when he was found in his jail
Speaker 3: cell with a it was described as a homemade looking
Speaker 3: noose around his neck and fetal position with a mark
Speaker 3: around his neck. He claimed initially that his cellmate tried
Speaker 3: to attack him.
Speaker 2: So this is where the problem lies. Why is this
Speaker 2: guy who essentially has nothing to do with Epstein's case
Speaker 2: and all this has been going on nationally, why is
Speaker 2: he holding the cards, if you will, for a note
Speaker 2: that is quite relevant robes to the whole Epstein discussion. Well,
Speaker 2: once he handed it to his attorney, you have attorney
Speaker 2: client privilege. Therein lies the issue. So it's in his file.
Speaker 2: It has been closed, it has been sealed because it
Speaker 2: is considered a part of an attorney client privilege, and
Speaker 2: it just sat there. It's been sitting for seven years,
Speaker 2: as we've been arguing over whether or not this man
Speaker 2: killed himself, the note is sitting there.
Speaker 1: This story will never end.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm shaking my head. I know you can't
Speaker 3: see it. Because the idea that this back and forth
Speaker 3: over whether or not Jeffrey Epstein actually died by suicide,
Speaker 3: knowing this entire time that there was a suicide note
Speaker 3: from a suicide attempt that happened approximately two weeks give
Speaker 3: or take before Jeffrey Epstein actually did die by suicide.
Speaker 3: The relevance of that is enormous, and the fact that
Speaker 3: the DOJ didn't even know it existed is kind of
Speaker 3: hard to even get our heads around.
Speaker 1: Because you ask Roomes, what else?
Speaker 2: Because this is significant, Like this is not some just
Speaker 2: random new little nugget that came out. What else do
Speaker 2: we not know? I knows impossible. This is the one
Speaker 2: of these centerpieces of the controversy. Obviously somebody killed him,
Speaker 2: because these powerful men are protecting their secrets, so somebody
Speaker 2: killed them. Then you had the the worst prison workers ever,
Speaker 2: no offense to them, but Robes that night they were
Speaker 2: didn't they missed some of their duties. They were googling sleep,
Speaker 2: some random stuff, and you put that together and say, wow,
Speaker 2: on the night that he died, they just so happened
Speaker 2: to have their heads turned. That will make you questions, absolutely,
Speaker 2: but it's also possible they were bad employees.
Speaker 1: He did die by suicide. It's possible all these things happened.
Speaker 3: Yes, And it was also noted that when the judge
Speaker 3: asked for responses from basically the cellmates, lawyers and the
Speaker 3: DOJ whether or not he should release them release this
Speaker 3: possible note, the lawyers for the cell mates said, hell, yeah,
Speaker 3: this is exactly what you know. He's already made statements
Speaker 3: to this fact. This actually just bolsters his claim, said
Speaker 3: this note does in fact exist. The DOJ's response was interesting.
Speaker 3: They said, there appears to be strong public interest in
Speaker 3: the circumstances surrounding Epstein's death as described in the unsealing motion.
Speaker 3: That said, because the government has no knowledge as to
Speaker 3: the accuracy of the factual narrative described in the unsealing motion,
Speaker 3: the government defers to the court. It was a very
Speaker 3: passive statement by the government.
Speaker 2: Okay, they could have summed that up just by saying
Speaker 2: whatever and going on, Okay, fine, but nobody objected.
Speaker 3: There was no pushback to this ropes yes, and so
Speaker 3: that is why the judge finally released this and unsealed
Speaker 3: it and released this possible suicide note for everyone now
Speaker 3: to say, holy hell, cannot believe this was here the
Speaker 3: entire time, and we.
Speaker 2: Are look, we've putting piecing together what his some of
Speaker 2: the phrases. Again, you could say it looks like, yes,
Speaker 2: this is an authentic note. We have to say, though,
Speaker 2: row nobody has independently authenticated yes. This note to say
Speaker 2: yes for sure looks like by the layperson's test, just
Speaker 2: the eyeball test, looks like the hand right yes.
Speaker 3: And we'll hear maybe more from the cellmates lawyers who
Speaker 3: claimed that they did have a handwriting expert authenticated for
Speaker 3: his case, just in case this needed to come up again.
Speaker 3: So it'll be interesting to hear from them, and certainly
Speaker 3: we'll have some folks be analyzing this in the days
Speaker 3: to come to see if I don't know how you
Speaker 3: officially authenticated, I guess some official, well respected expert could
Speaker 3: possibly say yes or no, And then we could maybe
Speaker 3: say we feel beyond a reasonable doubt that this in
Speaker 3: fact was from Jeffrey Epstein. Well, when we come back
Speaker 3: We're going to talk about the questions surrounding Jeffrey Epstein's
Speaker 3: first suicide attempt that this note depicts. There are a
Speaker 3: lot of interesting details surrounding what happened on July twenty third,
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen. Welcome back, everyone to this episode of Amy
Speaker 3: and TJ, where we are talking about a massive story
Speaker 3: in the Jeffrey Epstein saga. Yes, his purported suicide note
Speaker 3: has been unsealed and released to the public by a
Speaker 3: judge after The New York Times asked him to do so.
Speaker 3: This note that the DOJ claims they didn't even know existed,
Speaker 3: is now available for all of us to read and
Speaker 3: to see and to contemplate, to put into context. If this,
Speaker 3: in fact is real, it appears that it likely is.
Speaker 3: Does this calm down the folks who believe that Jeffrey
Speaker 3: Epstein was murdered?
Speaker 2: I don't know it was going to be well. I
Speaker 2: actually just wrote that note down to ask you. This
Speaker 2: is fairly new. It came out last night, the news
Speaker 2: and the notes started getting around. I haven't seen a
Speaker 2: whole lot of reaction. Maybe there isn't a lot yet,
Speaker 2: but are people already pushing and saying this isn't authentic?
Speaker 2: Are calling this note into question?
Speaker 3: I everyone that I every publication that I have read
Speaker 3: so far, it all is reading as though this does
Speaker 3: seem fairly legit. So it'll be interesting to see what
Speaker 3: this does to the conspiracy theorists out there and the
Speaker 3: reason why there are still so many conspiracy theories. Beyond
Speaker 3: just the obvious that we've stated that, yes, he had
Speaker 3: information about powerful men and women who wouldn't have wanted
Speaker 3: him to live to see a court date, but beyond that,
Speaker 3: the incident surrounding July twenty third of this purported first
Speaker 3: suicide attempt. Yes, we mentioned he was found in fetal
Speaker 3: position with a homemade fashioned noose around his neck, but
Speaker 3: because of Epstein's own words in the day after and
Speaker 3: the days that followed, it made it seem as though
Speaker 3: he didn't try to kill himself. He told a psychologist initially, yes,
Speaker 3: he said that his roommate or his cellmate tried to
Speaker 3: kill him, but he pretty quickly recanted that, told a
Speaker 3: psychologist the next day that TARTAGLIONI didn't threaten to harm him,
Speaker 3: and then he just started saying, I have no recollection
Speaker 3: of the incident, and so that caused some questions. He
Speaker 3: then went further and said, I have no interest in
Speaker 3: killing myself, point blank told a psychologist is he said,
Speaker 3: I am too vested in my case to not fight it.
Speaker 3: I have a life and I want to go back
Speaker 3: to living my life. So when you hear those types
Speaker 3: of comments that are in a report from a notable psychologist,
Speaker 3: that fuels the theory that no, see, he didn't he
Speaker 3: didn't try to die. He didn't want to die. He
Speaker 3: wanted to fight. He wanted to maybe call out all
Speaker 3: these other people who had been a part of his life.
Speaker 3: So that adds to the speculation.
Speaker 1: Obviously, what a doctor should we try?
Speaker 2: A doctor would know if somebody was just bs in them,
Speaker 2: because this could also just sound like a guy who
Speaker 2: was trying to get a doctor off's back and make
Speaker 2: sure they don't put him on suicide watch. It could
Speaker 2: easily be dismissed as that. But yes, that does fly
Speaker 2: in the face of the story everything. There's no consistency
Speaker 2: of the narrative he tried to kill himself, he didn't
Speaker 2: want to kill himself. He's writing a note that says
Speaker 2: he wants to die. He's telling a doctor he doesn't
Speaker 2: wants to die. The guy assaulted me, he did all
Speaker 2: the back. Nothing is a consistent theme, so that yes,
Speaker 2: the doubts will continue to be there. This is the
Speaker 2: closest I have seen robes to putting a button on
Speaker 2: the question about the suicide.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think for a lot of folks, like
Speaker 3: I said, who were on the fence but leaning towards
Speaker 3: just where the evidence is pointing, I think this note,
Speaker 3: especially if it can be officially authenticated, will will put
Speaker 3: a lot of those theories to rest or to bed
Speaker 3: for a lot of people. There will always be people
Speaker 3: who will never believe that he died by suicide. But
Speaker 3: I do think that a large group of people who
Speaker 3: might we who maybe were waiting to see or not
Speaker 3: necessarily having a form of opinion, this might be the
Speaker 3: smoking gun they were looking.
Speaker 2: We'll see probably more and more to the authenticating the note.
Speaker 1: They put it out of me. Everybody has access to it.
Speaker 2: There are handwriting experts working on it this morning, and
Speaker 2: they will be on podcasts and they will be confirming
Speaker 2: or not confirming. All of that stuff will be out
Speaker 2: probably today. It wrote some of that Why why hold
Speaker 2: on to it? The attorneys knew good in hell, well,
Speaker 2: all the debate and going on in the country about Epstein,
Speaker 2: and they did they not realize or forget they were
Speaker 2: holding on them.
Speaker 3: It was just gonna imagine, Well, maybe they forgot, Really,
Speaker 3: you're gonna forget about having seen and having given the
Speaker 3: court this document that you know, would had been of
Speaker 3: incredible interest and would have been real possible information in
Speaker 3: all the speculation that's been going on now for seven years.
Speaker 1: So you're saying it's not possible they forgot about it.
Speaker 3: I just can't imagine. But I don't know why they
Speaker 3: wouldn't have brought attention to it. I'm not sure. It's unclear.
Speaker 3: I mean, maybe they did just get really busy, and maybe.
Speaker 2: They just don't give a damn. It's not there and
Speaker 2: the Epstein stuff is not in their lane. I don't know, oh,
Speaker 2: if they were holding on. But it's possible the document
Speaker 2: that was in the Epstein files, who the one that
Speaker 2: timeline that chronology that mentioned that there was a note?
Speaker 1: Where did that come from? Whose was that that was.
Speaker 3: Within the Department of Justice's documents. But I think the
Speaker 3: point being that there were so many millions of these
Speaker 3: documents that it slipped by or it went unnoticed by
Speaker 3: DJ folks, and it took the New York Times, who
Speaker 3: was painstakingly going through all of these documents, to put
Speaker 3: together this podcast interview that hissell made. By the way,
Speaker 3: gave it the end of last year, but put it
Speaker 3: together with this one document that they said made a
Speaker 3: veiled reference to a suicide note, and then the wherewithal
Speaker 3: to say, let me go after this case file and
Speaker 3: see if we can find it. So good on the
Speaker 3: New York Times, we now have more information, which is
Speaker 3: always a good thing in a case that has fascinated
Speaker 3: this country and frankly this world now for quite some time.
Speaker 3: I'm sure it's not over yet. With that, everyone, we
Speaker 3: always appreciate you listening to us. I'm Aye Roebuck alongside T. J. Holmes.
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you sooner