Speaker 1: It's one fifty two am in spook You Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: And you're listening tonight Call. Hello, Welcome to night Call,
Speaker 1: your podcast for those strange days and lonely nights. My
Speaker 1: name is Emily Orshida. I am in New York and
Speaker 1: with me on the other line in Los Angeles are
Speaker 1: Tess Lynch and Molly Lambert. Hey, guys, Hello, UM, we
Speaker 1: have a very lady horror oriented podcast for you today. UM.
Speaker 1: Starting off with the first lady. One might call her
Speaker 1: the very first lady, UM, Melania Trump, which as of
Speaker 1: this recording. UM, there's a lot of conspiracies around her,
Speaker 1: and it's been a while since we've had a good
Speaker 1: UM White House. Well, no that's not true. Yeah, come on,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, no, this is the best time
Speaker 1: for conspiracy theories and the worst time for everything else,
Speaker 1: I guess non political ones. But there hasn't been a
Speaker 1: good first lady conspiracy in a second. UM, she may
Speaker 1: have resurfaced as by the time you hear this, but
Speaker 1: I think yesterday they announced that she wouldn't be going
Speaker 1: to the G seven summit. There was some statement issued
Speaker 1: about how she has just not been appearing anywhere because
Speaker 1: she's starting to focus on her kids and family, which
Speaker 1: is um. There have been similar statements like that in
Speaker 1: the past. But she's she's got to be best. She's
Speaker 1: just being best wherever she is, she's being best. Um.
Speaker 1: But I like, uh Audrey Woolen, a good follow on
Speaker 1: on Twitter, was was talking about how this is sort
Speaker 1: of it feels like a kind of gothic mystery that's
Speaker 1: evolving around Milannia being gradually turned into a ghost and
Speaker 1: and sent up to inhabit the rafters of some unknown
Speaker 1: attic in the White House. It's funny too, because Iron
Speaker 1: Madison has also been doing these really funny threads on
Speaker 1: Twitter about sort of like the soap opera version of
Speaker 1: what has happened to Millannia. He's like, oh, she's been
Speaker 1: replaced with a body double, and then the body double
Speaker 1: has been sent to like a farm or something just
Speaker 1: like Very Days of Our Lives what it would be,
Speaker 1: which would be that like someone has a secret twin
Speaker 1: the Secrets and she's in a coma. Yeah, there's been
Speaker 1: a double rumor going around for a while. I think
Speaker 1: because there were some photos of her where her face
Speaker 1: was mostly covered by sunglasses or like her hair or
Speaker 1: something like. She's just styled in a way where you
Speaker 1: purposely can't seem to make out her face. So who
Speaker 1: knows who that could be. I think it was this
Speaker 1: one video where she's wearing a hat and glasses and
Speaker 1: it just looks like a prosthetic face. I just looked
Speaker 1: at the Snopes on this and they were like, no,
Speaker 1: it was a distortion, Like it was like a screen distortion.
Speaker 1: She the hat man, I think she's Carmen san Diego.
Speaker 1: She is like in a trench. It's so close. I
Speaker 1: gotta say, this is one of those ones where I
Speaker 1: was like, who cares? I don't care? Why don't you care?
Speaker 1: Because there's so much other ship. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: other actually important and this just seems like a distraction.
Speaker 1: All that's true, but it's an interesting distraction. If you
Speaker 1: acknowledge that it's a distraction, it's interesting. But I'm also like,
Speaker 1: having made the mistake of watching cable news for the
Speaker 1: first time in a while, I was just like, this
Speaker 1: is what like if you turn on cable news, all
Speaker 1: it is all day is like not talking about Puerto Rico.
Speaker 1: They're not talking about anything anything real. All the talking
Speaker 1: about is like Roseanne and Melania and like Russia and
Speaker 1: none of it is ever real. And I've heard that
Speaker 1: it's like they're getting really good ratings for it because
Speaker 1: it's become just like Fox News for neoliberals, where it's
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna watch TV all day and then like
Speaker 1: something's going to break in the Russia scandal that will
Speaker 1: like crack this whole thing open, and so it like
Speaker 1: gets people addicted to watching this sort of meaningless news programming. Well,
Speaker 1: this is yeah, this is the great prank that the
Speaker 1: this administration is actually played on people on the left
Speaker 1: is that they've it has made like raving paranoid Fox
Speaker 1: News esque lunatics out of all of us. Uh, which
Speaker 1: is it's definitely been a thing where you see some
Speaker 1: people just like go off the deep end never to return.
Speaker 1: It's become just more and more of a thing, and
Speaker 1: some people just turn into these like Russia conspiracists where
Speaker 1: it's like, hey, it's not like they're not going to
Speaker 1: be like whoops like Mulligan. But and this most side
Speaker 1: is they we all learned a lot about game theory,
Speaker 1: and so much of that game theory. I don't think
Speaker 1: twelve dimensional chess is really guy. It's so funny because
Speaker 1: I was remembering, like maybe a year ago or something,
Speaker 1: meeting up with a friend of David somewhere and he
Speaker 1: was like, did you hear Like we hadn't looked at
Speaker 1: in the news maybe for a day or something, and
Speaker 1: he's like, did you hear like the indictments they're coming
Speaker 1: down like everybody's going to jail and saying that every day. Well,
Speaker 1: we're like really really, and we like search Twitter and
Speaker 1: we couldn't figure out. I was talking about it, and
Speaker 1: of course it was like a Louise Men thread probably,
Speaker 1: But like people, there's always somebody that's like, you know,
Speaker 1: my inside source said, like Mueller's prepared the report and
Speaker 1: like Trump's from president for like over a year, I
Speaker 1: mean fifty years. He's going to get re elected? Molly,
Speaker 1: Yeah he is, because what are we What have we
Speaker 1: changed about anything? We haven't like fixed how voting is
Speaker 1: fucked up? Can that be like a rallying cry, not
Speaker 1: a prediction? Can that be like he will be re
Speaker 1: elected unless I don't think there's an unless I think
Speaker 1: he's gonna get re elected because I think that the
Speaker 1: people that are like Russia did this. It's like no,
Speaker 1: like American racism did this. We could be both, it
Speaker 1: could think it could be both. I think it's possible
Speaker 1: for it to be. You can't you can't bait people
Speaker 1: with like racist Facebook memes that aren't already like prone
Speaker 1: to racism, that are going to believe them. If they're
Speaker 1: not racist, they're gonna be like, that's bullshit. And clearly
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people that are primed to
Speaker 1: believe all this garbage, but they also believe it. So
Speaker 1: I don't think those people don't exist. I think they
Speaker 1: voted him in not Russia. Do you think it's possible
Speaker 1: for him to disappoint those people in a meaningful way
Speaker 1: where they'll go to the third party? And I think
Speaker 1: it's like Kanye. I think it's like the people that
Speaker 1: have drink the koolid or like I drink all the
Speaker 1: kool Aid, and I'm not going to stop now, you know,
Speaker 1: Like to stop would be to denounce everything that I've
Speaker 1: done in my entire life until now, So like I
Speaker 1: got to just keep rolling with it. Hey night, collars.
Speaker 1: You know, Tests and Molly and I often talk about
Speaker 1: how we all wish that we could just be brains
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Speaker 1: is fabletics dot com slash call. Can I just put
Speaker 1: this out there also as a sidebar right now that
Speaker 1: we're not going to talk about the Kanye album we
Speaker 1: don't have do I mean, it's trash, that's what we
Speaker 1: can say about. Yeah, it's one of these things I've
Speaker 1: decided I don't have time for at this point in
Speaker 1: my life, saying it's like, I think it's okay to
Speaker 1: be like I don't have time for this at this
Speaker 1: point in my life. It's not even like Kanye is
Speaker 1: trash thing. It's just like I simply do not have
Speaker 1: the bandwidth to get into like figuring out how I
Speaker 1: feel about the new Kanye album. I'm not even I
Speaker 1: think it's perfectly fine to say that in light of
Speaker 1: what's going on with Kanye, that you're just sitting this
Speaker 1: one out like I'm I don't plan to listen to it.
Speaker 1: Maybe I will, but I mean, and honestly we've talked
Speaker 1: about this before. There's something that's so sad and feels
Speaker 1: um predatory at some point about like feeling this responsibility
Speaker 1: of having an opinion on what's going on with Kanye
Speaker 1: when he's very clearly in a place where he should
Speaker 1: just kind of go away for a bit. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think I brought this up before,
Speaker 1: but Jay Kang had a good thread. Um Jake Kang,
Speaker 1: the intellectual dark web of the Left and being to
Speaker 1: are superstar was talking about just like I don't know, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't, we don't have to care about this stuff.
Speaker 1: He was like anyone who ever wrote a think piece
Speaker 1: about Kanye is responsible for this world we've made. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was like, we all graduated from college with no
Speaker 1: skills except being able to like write pop culture theory.
Speaker 1: And I was like, maybe he's not wrong. Maybe speculating
Speaker 1: about celebrity is bad, and projecting things onto people that
Speaker 1: aren't there, or treating people's careers and lives by extension
Speaker 1: as a sport that you watch and prognosticated about is
Speaker 1: maybe not We also we talked on girls and hoodies
Speaker 1: a lot about like monarch mind control, like the kind
Speaker 1: of conspiracies about what happened to young stars and they
Speaker 1: all have these nervous breakdowns and stuff, and I mean
Speaker 1: a lot of it was supposedly like a machine that
Speaker 1: was kind of conditioning them to be these like ciphers,
Speaker 1: but a lot of it was just growing up feeling that,
Speaker 1: you know, creating attention around oneself was was the ticket,
Speaker 1: and then coming to like a point in your life
Speaker 1: in your career where you kind of feel like you
Speaker 1: have to like step it up and step it up,
Speaker 1: and it just leads to such sad things and then
Speaker 1: you just don't want to like have any of that.
Speaker 1: You say, also there is a machine, and the machine
Speaker 1: is capitalism. Oh, there we go. You know what, though,
Speaker 1: there was this there was this post about VICI that
Speaker 1: was really sad on ont D where people were talking
Speaker 1: about like, hey, this guy kept saying like if I
Speaker 1: keep doing this, I'm going to die, and everybody around
Speaker 1: him was like, you have to keep doing it because
Speaker 1: you're making all these people money and that's all that matters.
Speaker 1: And then all these people were, you know, they were
Speaker 1: kind of like, hey, it kind of seems like this
Speaker 1: is a pattern that happens to like every big star
Speaker 1: that we make that that that has a nervous breakdown
Speaker 1: is like they should take time off, and they can't.
Speaker 1: I think a problem with that too is that when
Speaker 1: an artist expresses vulnerability, it almost seems as though it's
Speaker 1: an invitation for fans to closer, when really it might
Speaker 1: be their attempt at stepping back. So I think that
Speaker 1: with Kanye, when he would be on these tweet binges
Speaker 1: and and expressing very personal sentiments and like really controversial opinions,
Speaker 1: it almost seemed as though he was inviting people to
Speaker 1: relate to him more or to like try to figure
Speaker 1: out what was going on with him. In a way
Speaker 1: that was really invasive, but it maybe wasn't that you
Speaker 1: can see the reaction. I mean, I said, we said
Speaker 1: we were't going to talk about this, and look, but
Speaker 1: you can see in their reactions it's like it's not
Speaker 1: even about Kanye or the album. And I feel like
Speaker 1: the same thing is going on with like the BUSHETI
Speaker 1: and Drake fight, where it's like it's about people's personal
Speaker 1: investment in those artists and a lot of it has
Speaker 1: to do with nostalgia for like that you know, any
Speaker 1: time other than now. Yeah, just like something that mattered
Speaker 1: to you at a different point and if you if
Speaker 1: you no longer connect to that thing, then like everything
Speaker 1: you ever did was a lie. But it's like, no,
Speaker 1: if you no longer connect to that thing, it's because
Speaker 1: there's nothing to connect to anymore. Um. I have always
Speaker 1: like joked about Kanye like becoming just like full psycho.
Speaker 1: But it's not funny. It's a bad album because there's
Speaker 1: no humor to it. It just feels like sad and
Speaker 1: you're like somebody, like he should just take time off,
Speaker 1: he should get help. I would rather get help than
Speaker 1: like keep making music that it's bad, or just even
Speaker 1: keep making music that is good. Even it's like there
Speaker 1: are things more important than making art or money. I
Speaker 1: was just gonna say, I just feel like we're just
Speaker 1: starting to begin to realize the ramifications of like this
Speaker 1: gray area where the thing we used to communicate is
Speaker 1: also just like culture, like as like it is like
Speaker 1: the matter of culture. So like somebody's tweet or something
Speaker 1: about their well being or their inner life, it's not
Speaker 1: just a mode of communication. It then becomes a piece
Speaker 1: of culture to molo or and and that can that
Speaker 1: can you know, either make somebody money or affect their
Speaker 1: career or result in fewer tickets sold for a tour
Speaker 1: or you know whatever. And I feel like we're just
Speaker 1: starting to realize that what happens when like you can
Speaker 1: no longer just talk anywhere, that everything becomes something that
Speaker 1: comes back to your bottom line or that like you
Speaker 1: can say things that can like funk up anything else
Speaker 1: you've said that was good. Like if you didn't get
Speaker 1: off the Kanye train at Slavery was a choice, then
Speaker 1: like I can't help you because like what are you doing?
Speaker 1: You know, like what you like, what are you waiting for? Exactly?
Speaker 1: It's a lot, I mean, it is a lot like Trump.
Speaker 1: It's like the people who are still like, no, no,
Speaker 1: he's playing twelve dimensional chess. This is all like a
Speaker 1: big performance art thing, and he's going to do a
Speaker 1: big reveal at the like you know, listening party, and
Speaker 1: then it's like no, you know who knows a lot
Speaker 1: about performance art, Kanye West, Well, no, there was like
Speaker 1: one of the conspiracies was that like he was recreating
Speaker 1: this piece of art by this like famous like fluxus
Speaker 1: artist or something. And I was like, how delusional do
Speaker 1: you have to be to think that that's true? And
Speaker 1: it's like as delusional as people who are like Trump's,
Speaker 1: you know, the indictments are coming down any second now.
Speaker 1: It's like you believe what you want to believe. Uh.
Speaker 1: But some I don't know people talking about Brittany too,
Speaker 1: they were just like everyone around her failed her because
Speaker 1: like she could have gone a different way if people
Speaker 1: hadn't been so like, you have to get back on
Speaker 1: that stage. I think everybody. I don't know. My only
Speaker 1: hope for the future is that like everybody starts taking
Speaker 1: care of each other instead of being being tweet tweet crazy.
Speaker 1: I mean I think like going back to the Milannia thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're back. Sorry, guys. What's interesting is that, so we're
Speaker 1: recording this podcast, Milannia is supposed to be um appearing
Speaker 1: before a group of people with no press allowed at
Speaker 1: I think two thirty Pacific, so it's but it's on
Speaker 1: the five thirty this evening, so we don't know if
Speaker 1: that's going to happen. Regardless of if it happens or not,
Speaker 1: the press isn't allowed, so we'll be relying on reports
Speaker 1: of people who are in the room exactly. And there
Speaker 1: was a CNBC reporter I think who said that he
Speaker 1: saw her. I guess her last appearance was May tent
Speaker 1: and he said he saw her in the White House
Speaker 1: at some point after that, but wouldn't really elaborate, said
Speaker 1: other people saw her too, So I think, you know,
Speaker 1: Molly and I were talking about this just before we
Speaker 1: started recording, and you know, she was like, it's just
Speaker 1: a distraction. It's just a distraction. And it totally is
Speaker 1: a distraction. I mean, it just seems like that has
Speaker 1: to be the case. That's like, I'm also like, hey,
Speaker 1: the Trump administration is disappearing a lot of women that
Speaker 1: we aren't talking about all the time in the news
Speaker 1: that like I would rather be focusing on well, I
Speaker 1: just think, but it becomes an interesting part of the
Speaker 1: story if you think about them concocting this particular distraction
Speaker 1: shouldn't be something that takes up your time as much
Speaker 1: as as you know, Puerto Rico obviously being something that's
Speaker 1: just been completely ignored. It just feel like two with Milannia.
Speaker 1: It's like there seems to be this desire people have
Speaker 1: to like project humanity onto her or to be like
Speaker 1: she's trapped in this horrible situation. It's like people in
Speaker 1: this situation, I don't know, I'm like a lot of
Speaker 1: like white women are like always like poor Milannia. Like, no,
Speaker 1: not poor Millannia. She's like married to her to a
Speaker 1: white supremacist she said, crazy birth or things like she's
Speaker 1: a bad person. Not. Yeah, I totally agree. However, it
Speaker 1: becomes a little bit tricky. I think when people start
Speaker 1: like slamming her use of English and stuff, like I mean,
Speaker 1: attacking her for things not based completely on her personality
Speaker 1: and life choices that have led her to the White House. No,
Speaker 1: and like, I don't know, I just feel like it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter and she's probably fine. The thing about all
Speaker 1: the weird ship around this administration. So like Milan like
Speaker 1: mo Lonnie having a body double, that that's actually something
Speaker 1: that feels like in the realm of possibility. I don't
Speaker 1: think it matters. But there's the actual matter and substance
Speaker 1: of this administration, which is all the ways in which
Speaker 1: they're sucking over immigrants and all this other stuff. Um.
Speaker 1: But then there's like the color of it, like that
Speaker 1: it wasn't just that people were having their human rights violated,
Speaker 1: it was that we were living in this weird twilight
Speaker 1: zone where it was possible that there was like a
Speaker 1: body double for the first lady. That's like just like
Speaker 1: it goes also to the idea of like people seeing
Speaker 1: memes that are like clearly photoshopped and not knowing that
Speaker 1: they're photoshopped. Like there is this way and just like
Speaker 1: you literally can't trust anything you see, especially if you
Speaker 1: see it on the internet, even if it's video. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: it could just be all shopped. Like anything can be
Speaker 1: shopped into the thing that they want you to think
Speaker 1: it is. And so it makes everybody feel crazy. Oh,
Speaker 1: speaking of crazy people on the there you go perfect,
Speaker 1: speaking of women locked in a tower of their own dividing.
Speaker 1: We were going to talk about Julia Allison um a
Speaker 1: person who was on the Internet a lot and then
Speaker 1: kind of disappeared off the Internet and then re emerged
Speaker 1: like a butterfly, like a person wearing butterfly wings of
Speaker 1: burning Man this week with an editorial uh in page
Speaker 1: six or past about how sex in the City ruined
Speaker 1: her life. It's such a college paper essay, Like it's like,
Speaker 1: what's your thesis and give me, you know, in this case,
Speaker 1: like twenty five things that support this thesis and completely
Speaker 1: ignoring anything else that might be going on in the
Speaker 1: world or with yourself given time. It's just like a
Speaker 1: blindingly unself aware piece of writing. But it was really rough. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's pretty I think the worst part is when she
Speaker 1: claimed that a man was attempting to um sexually assault
Speaker 1: her and it was horrible, but then ended the paragraph
Speaker 1: off with and the worst part he flew me back home. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean what I thought was a huge bummer about
Speaker 1: this was that it was like, it wasn't that she
Speaker 1: regretted trying to sell herself. It was that it didn't
Speaker 1: work the way she wanted it to, which is I
Speaker 1: think a thing A lot of people actually can identify with.
Speaker 1: Is that you're like, I'm going to be a brand
Speaker 1: and then you're like, wait, I'm a cheap brand, right.
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of assumption that like we
Speaker 1: all bought into the myth of Carrie Bradshaw, right, and
Speaker 1: it's like, you know what I did it, Like, I'm
Speaker 1: I know you guys like Sex and the City a lot,
Speaker 1: but I was never a Sex and the City fan,
Speaker 1: aside from like if I was in the tel and
Speaker 1: I had to watch a couple episodes, But like, it's
Speaker 1: not that we bought into like buying a lot of
Speaker 1: ship will make you copy, it's that it was like
Speaker 1: it would be nice to have a column, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was where I came to it. We were never
Speaker 1: I don't think Molly or I were ever huge Sex
Speaker 1: in the City fans. I think it was almost like
Speaker 1: our soap opera. I mean it also like started when
Speaker 1: we were teenagers, so I feel like it was just
Speaker 1: like maybe if I had been like an adult woman
Speaker 1: in that world already, I would have been like this
Speaker 1: is so fake, like nothing like it. But because I
Speaker 1: was like a teenager, I was like, yeah, sure, I'd
Speaker 1: like to have a column. And an apartment Like that
Speaker 1: sounds great. Yeah, I mean there's something though, like in
Speaker 1: the in the article, like they've chosen intentionally extremely unflattering
Speaker 1: photos of her during the height of her career and
Speaker 1: being like a Gawker fixture and all of that. It
Speaker 1: also maings you'd be like, ah, the two thousands, which
Speaker 1: I keep thinking about, Like the two thousands were like
Speaker 1: Vimar Germany. You know, we were all just like carefree
Speaker 1: and everybody was just like I feel about to tea
Speaker 1: that I thought you hated. I do hate them. But
Speaker 1: now when I now, I've been thinking about it a
Speaker 1: lot where I'm like, oh, everything was so frivolous because
Speaker 1: fascism was coming. But there's something about those outfits and
Speaker 1: the color and how everything was just like neon and
Speaker 1: like made for the lowest attention span possible, and it
Speaker 1: really kind of sent a chill down, right. But it
Speaker 1: also just seems like such a different time when it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: remember when nothing really mattered, like the things weren't real. Well,
Speaker 1: it's also such a waste when you think about it,
Speaker 1: because you're like, we had Gawker, but they spent all
Speaker 1: this time talking about Julia Allison. But you know what
Speaker 1: I was like, she was one of the people they
Speaker 1: tried to turn into a micro celebrity, but the other
Speaker 1: one was Mark Zuckerberg, and like that turned out to
Speaker 1: be like a person that you did want to be
Speaker 1: paying attention to more than he wanted you to, because
Speaker 1: you know, people who want all the perks of like power,
Speaker 1: but don't want the downsides, which is the constant analysis.
Speaker 1: It's like, no, you get both. That's the thing about
Speaker 1: Elon Musk too. You're like, if you're going to be
Speaker 1: on the internet all the time tweeting your opinions, people
Speaker 1: are going to tell you their opinions back. It's not
Speaker 1: a one way thing. It's not how it works. And
Speaker 1: that's why all these billionaires keep buying publications and shutting
Speaker 1: down newspapers or making them into sort of censored versions
Speaker 1: of those papers, because they're like, you can write about
Speaker 1: anything you want except me. You know, even people that
Speaker 1: are like, oh, Jeff Bezos, one's the Washington Post. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that means you can't like criticize Jeff Bezos the way
Speaker 1: that you need to for being like a psychotic monomaniac.
Speaker 1: Think those people shouldn't be in charge of anything, and
Speaker 1: Gawker when it was good, was like, did make you
Speaker 1: feel like it was like the little guy taking the
Speaker 1: big chis some window of the sales or something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I I remember reading about Julia Allison just
Speaker 1: because I read Gawker all the time. I never really
Speaker 1: cared that. But I mean, even though I read everything
Speaker 1: about her, like, I did not understand how it applied
Speaker 1: to me or why I should care. I think because
Speaker 1: I was in Los Angeles and wasn't in the media,
Speaker 1: and I just didn't really I was like, who is
Speaker 1: this woman again? No? I mean it was like she
Speaker 1: couldn't see how clueless she came off all the time.
Speaker 1: And so you know, they're like and even in this essay,
Speaker 1: you're like, she starts out by being like, I lived
Speaker 1: the most glamorous life. I met everyone like Henry Kissinger.
Speaker 1: She's like Henry Kissinger and Richard Branson. Those are her
Speaker 1: two examples for glamorous, celebraamorous, multi murdering war criminal and
Speaker 1: member of the International Olympic Committee, Henry Kissinger. And then
Speaker 1: she did the thing that all the most annoying New
Speaker 1: Yorkers do, which is to move to California and be like, guys,
Speaker 1: I'm so different now, like people who go to summer
Speaker 1: camp and come back and are like, I have a
Speaker 1: new personality, forget everything you knew about, have a Bravo pilot. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then she really just kind of shows shows herself
Speaker 1: by being like, also, I dated a woman Carrie Bradshaw
Speaker 1: would never do. That was then incredible. And then she
Speaker 1: was like and then I dated a man, but he
Speaker 1: wanted to be polyamorous. And I was like, oh, honey,
Speaker 1: you live in Silicon Valley for sure. Yeah, I said
Speaker 1: that he was Samantha boys. Oh honey, honey, those Silicon
Speaker 1: Valley guys all want to be polyamorous. I said, not
Speaker 1: unless they're poly bank accounts. Sorry, very sorry, advised. Um,
Speaker 1: that's the thing too. I was like, oh, I forgot.
Speaker 1: She actually did have a reality show. At the end,
Speaker 1: but she was like, but I was over it, so
Speaker 1: like goodbye. But then at the end she says this
Speaker 1: thing where she's like, and now I'm thirty eight and
Speaker 1: if I hadn't done all this stuff, I'd be married
Speaker 1: with kids. And you're like, where do you get that idea? Right?
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Speaker 1: Forward slash nightcall. Maybe this is just everybody once they
Speaker 1: hit like a certain age where you're like, what if
Speaker 1: I've done everything differently and been the opposite person of
Speaker 1: who I am? And I feel like Julia Allison is
Speaker 1: like I should have just like stayed in Chicago and
Speaker 1: married a rich banker. And I feel like she wrote
Speaker 1: a thing once about how she had like a boyfriend
Speaker 1: that she like dumped to go do New York stuff,
Speaker 1: and maybe she just regretted the fact that you remember
Speaker 1: that is terrifying because I followed her narrative for a
Speaker 1: long time because it was like, I'll be engaging. I
Speaker 1: felt really bad for her because I used to read
Speaker 1: this horrible website. I read that website. I know you're
Speaker 1: about to say, the one that was just like a
Speaker 1: mean tumbler about her. Well, there was a mean tumbler
Speaker 1: just about her, and then there was the mean blog
Speaker 1: about every everybody, but mostly just women who wrote for
Speaker 1: the internet, and they just I mean, they gave her
Speaker 1: a name. I think they called her Donkey. It was
Speaker 1: just really rough, Like it was the kind of thing
Speaker 1: where you wondered what a person who feels like they've
Speaker 1: decided that they're going to have a career that's just
Speaker 1: based around their personality and kind of banking on that.
Speaker 1: What do you do if if it seems as though
Speaker 1: the overwhelming response to your brand is negative? Right, what
Speaker 1: if you don't have it and that's why you can't
Speaker 1: be an it? But you maybe also don't have any
Speaker 1: other It's where it's like that might be something that
Speaker 1: someone else if you were again, if you were a
Speaker 1: completely different person leading a completely different life and making
Speaker 1: different choices like she she was like charming ish at
Speaker 1: at a point maybe or just you felt like you
Speaker 1: know what, I just remember, I'm having so many weird
Speaker 1: flashbacks now to like specific to thus And do you
Speaker 1: remember when she started dating a guy who was like, no,
Speaker 1: she started dating a nerd like internet guy? When when yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: who was like wanna be Silicon Valley guy? And so
Speaker 1: they started a blog together about their relationship called Jacob
Speaker 1: And remember I read that, Oh no, and I knew
Speaker 1: it was doomed because she started like, and this is
Speaker 1: the thing I see other people do it. I'm always
Speaker 1: like against Samantha wis. I was like, oh, honey, no,
Speaker 1: that's not going to do anything good for you. Like
Speaker 1: they would put their fights on the internet and be
Speaker 1: like who's right? And I was like, uh, no, that's
Speaker 1: not a relationship. That's like you're asking the internet who's right,
Speaker 1: Like you're doomed, you know, like even if you're right,
Speaker 1: like your relationship is fucked. That's that creepy like pseudo
Speaker 1: or like we of in public type show, or you're
Speaker 1: just like no, no, all the wrong impulses are being
Speaker 1: acted on here. You can understand the basic impulse to
Speaker 1: be like I'm having this disagreement with my significant other.
Speaker 1: If only I could have some kind of objective judgment
Speaker 1: come down from the universe. But like, you don't do that.
Speaker 1: It depends what the disagreement is, you know, like I
Speaker 1: someone else I know on the internet how to post
Speaker 1: about Like my husband thinks that you should wash lemons
Speaker 1: before you use them. Like he's crazy, right, you know,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, Okay, that's fine, you can put that
Speaker 1: up for a pole. But being like my boyfriend thinks,
Speaker 1: like just like getting into too much detail, You're just like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm going to read this, but also it's not good
Speaker 1: for you. Do you wash lemons? Lemons? You? It depends
Speaker 1: on my moves, It depends on the application. This is Katie,
Speaker 1: a topless who was also an Internet legend. Um, and
Speaker 1: I thought it was really funny because I was like,
Speaker 1: I've never washed a lemon. I think her husband was like,
Speaker 1: you have to wash lemons when she was like, no,
Speaker 1: you're crazy. Well this is a slippery slope because I
Speaker 1: just saw a video today on Facebook. Sorry, guys, I
Speaker 1: saw a video on Facebook and now I'm to tell
Speaker 1: you about it. And it was like, are you washing
Speaker 1: your produce all wrong? If you just rinse it with
Speaker 1: water all those pesticides. It was telling you abougtable wash. No,
Speaker 1: it was telling you that to get off pesticides, you
Speaker 1: had to soak your vet, your produce in water with
Speaker 1: baking soda for twelve minutes. And I'm pretty like, is
Speaker 1: this fake? It must be fake. But people were sharing
Speaker 1: it like okay, guys. And then you just see these
Speaker 1: big bowls of water and baking soda with like lettuce
Speaker 1: in them. It's like, you're gonna eat baking soda lettuce.
Speaker 1: Life is too short, y'all. It's too short for this
Speaker 1: lived dangerously. Just don't wash it. I mean, I think too.
Speaker 1: It's like there was a time when we were all
Speaker 1: on the internet a lot, but people weren't being necessarily
Speaker 1: out about the fact that they were spending all of
Speaker 1: their time on the internet because it was like you
Speaker 1: wanted to create the illusion that you had a cool life.
Speaker 1: Thank god, that just kidding. We're all just online all
Speaker 1: the time. And it was like people Julia Allison who
Speaker 1: are like, I'm putting myself out for your consumption. My
Speaker 1: life is an open book. Tell me everything you think
Speaker 1: about me, and the people would be like, you're a
Speaker 1: dumb bitch, and she'd be like, not that, don't do that.
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear that, um, which you know,
Speaker 1: it's very he wants to hear that. Well. The thing
Speaker 1: about forcing your way into being an it girl is
Speaker 1: so like I'm of two minds of it because out
Speaker 1: of the idea that if you're going to be an
Speaker 1: it girl, you have to be chosen by somebody else,
Speaker 1: you have to be like submissive in that way and
Speaker 1: let somebody else like foist fame upon you or something. Also,
Speaker 1: they're all like born rich is the secret, And I
Speaker 1: think Julia Allison was like, I'm rich, why can't I
Speaker 1: be an it girl. I'll come to New York and
Speaker 1: I'll wear Chanel and then like attention will just follow,
Speaker 1: and it's like, no, there's a million people just like
Speaker 1: you who also think that. And it's not sex in
Speaker 1: the City that made you think that you would get
Speaker 1: all these things like that's some bullshit American dream stuff
Speaker 1: that you just were like, Okay, well, I'm a rich,
Speaker 1: like pretty girl, so I'm gonna get like a house
Speaker 1: and a family and like a hot husband, and then
Speaker 1: being like where is he I want him? And if
Speaker 1: I and it's sex in the City's fault. And it's
Speaker 1: also like that's not what happens on sex in the
Speaker 1: city really, Like the second the city is kind of
Speaker 1: like depressing, and then at a certain point they took
Speaker 1: it into like fantasy mode because they were like this
Speaker 1: is too depressing, because there was that like a you know,
Speaker 1: early on like Sarahessica Parker. Parker was like, I think
Speaker 1: carries an alcoholic And then they were like, Okay, this
Speaker 1: has become like a fantasy aspirational thing for people. We
Speaker 1: can't they can't have real problems unless it's Samantha and
Speaker 1: then we'll get her cancer. Yeah, which is why she's
Speaker 1: the only only good one, good one. I have to
Speaker 1: say that, for me, the most depressing thing about the
Speaker 1: Julia Allison ed was that if you leave the Internet
Speaker 1: for all intents and purposes, as she claims to have done.
Speaker 1: She says she posts occasionally on Instagram, but it's like,
Speaker 1: look at the Internet, especially Instagram. If you do that,
Speaker 1: then offered the opportunity to come back as kind of
Speaker 1: like a version of the man who knew too little,
Speaker 1: you know, who like lived in upstate New York and
Speaker 1: didn't read any news at the election, thinking about, yeah,
Speaker 1: just like you stay in the bubble. Well, I'm I
Speaker 1: was like, I saw her picture and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: come on, girl, come back and be like So I
Speaker 1: quit the Internet, and I have spent some time reflecting
Speaker 1: on the fact that, you know, I made a huge
Speaker 1: ass out of myself and also had to weather being
Speaker 1: kind of bullied and it was bullshit. And then I
Speaker 1: left and now I'm like so happy, and here's what
Speaker 1: I've been up to, and here's like a lesson from me,
Speaker 1: which I would have probably been like, fair, I'll listen
Speaker 1: to you, but right instead, she's like, Hey, I'm the
Speaker 1: exact same person and I haven't evolved at all, and
Speaker 1: I'm just writing something that I totally could have written
Speaker 1: like eight years ago. So it's like she couldn't scam
Speaker 1: her way into New York, but she scammed her way
Speaker 1: into Silicon Valley. And now she gets paid to like
Speaker 1: speak at seminars, which is like the biggest scam of all,
Speaker 1: Like such a such a good job. Yeah, iire us
Speaker 1: to speak at your seven. Now I'm like a change activist.
Speaker 1: And it was like what is that? What do you
Speaker 1: do with the irony? Because I remember she quit the
Speaker 1: internet after like going to Burning Man. She was like
Speaker 1: I went to Burning Man and like nothing. I don't know.
Speaker 1: There's something about like people who have revelations and then
Speaker 1: learn nothing from it is like a fascinating thing. To
Speaker 1: bring it back to Kanye for a minute again, You're
Speaker 1: like how can you be self aware and then be
Speaker 1: like not self aware at all? You know? Or like
Speaker 1: how how are you trying to like acknowledge that you
Speaker 1: know your critics in a way that's like yeah, yeah
Speaker 1: they've got some points, but also fuck them all they
Speaker 1: know nothing. It was like kind of to a lesser
Speaker 1: degree like Katie Perry's whole last album cycle too, which
Speaker 1: was very like like I'm going to listen to my critics,
Speaker 1: but like in a very kind of cosmetic way, or
Speaker 1: liked her for like getting out you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like I don't know. I watched that whole Katie Perry livestream,
Speaker 1: which was amazing. Oh wait, you guys, by any chance
Speaker 1: to either of you see that they were broadcasting Fleetwood
Speaker 1: Max the dance on Pobs last night. See. That was
Speaker 1: like another thing where I was like, oh, okay, they've
Speaker 1: figured out that, like we need this nostalgia so badly.
Speaker 1: I mean even thinking about Katie Perry and like the
Speaker 1: Audies when we were first introducing they were cold in
Speaker 1: the story yesterday and I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is like what storm was ragtime jam or something
Speaker 1: like yeah, totally, this is from a million years ago.
Speaker 1: I think that's the thing. That's what's dangerous about nostalgia
Speaker 1: is like anything that you're no longer in, it can
Speaker 1: become crystallized until like oh that was nice, but then
Speaker 1: you're like, no, it's terrible, Like the two thousands were terrible.
Speaker 1: It just didn't occur to me that things would get worse.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so much worse now. Any other time
Speaker 1: there's this is so bad, things will have to get better.
Speaker 1: And it was like, no, no, hold my beer if
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Speaker 1: That's podcast p A R C A S T dot
Speaker 1: com Slash Criminals to listen now. Um, one more thing,
Speaker 1: speaking of horror and ladies, there was a post by
Speaker 1: the director Anna Biller, who made The Love which which
Speaker 1: we are all great, did a series of tweets a
Speaker 1: few weeks ago about horror and misogyny and was talking
Speaker 1: about the trope of final girls and horror, which is
Speaker 1: the trope whereby there's like a group of girls or
Speaker 1: a group up of guys and girls with a group
Speaker 1: of horny teens usually that are killed off one by
Speaker 1: one and then one girl remains and it's because she's
Speaker 1: smarter and better than everybody else, didn't didn't try to
Speaker 1: have sex, and she's a strong female character. Um. And
Speaker 1: Annabella was like, this is bullshit. Uh, strong female characters,
Speaker 1: Like that's not what that is. And it's become such
Speaker 1: a thing in horror, especially with like male directors, where
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, you know, this is feminist because like
Speaker 1: one woman survives. I love to show strong women after
Speaker 1: showing a bunch of other women getting slaughtered, that's what
Speaker 1: she was saying. She was like, it excuses people morally
Speaker 1: from having to think about why they enjoy watching a
Speaker 1: bunch of other women get killed first for like cinematic pleasure.
Speaker 1: And she was like, this is like the basis of
Speaker 1: all modern horror and like grindhouse movies. It's like the
Speaker 1: rape revenge movie. But then you like see the person
Speaker 1: get raped usually you know where it's like you do
Speaker 1: the thing in order to excuse the other thing. Uh,
Speaker 1: And she was like this sucks. And then dudes just
Speaker 1: went off on her on Twitter for like many days,
Speaker 1: really proving her point by being like wrong, I didn't
Speaker 1: see so much as a response. I mean, I saw
Speaker 1: like a couple of bog posts that were just about
Speaker 1: like what she wrote, and I listened to a different
Speaker 1: podcasts we were talking about it. But um, I mean
Speaker 1: it's kind of part of this larger argument that she
Speaker 1: has just about like what actually constitutes feminists film or
Speaker 1: like feminist oriented film, and it's not usually the thing
Speaker 1: that's being called a feminist film. And also the title
Speaker 1: of feminist film usually doesn't mean anything, especially when you're
Speaker 1: talking about a film directed by a man like the
Speaker 1: most Like a film can really only be feminist in
Speaker 1: like a medicine as far as like how it's being
Speaker 1: made and whose point of view as being prioritized, and
Speaker 1: which is why that Brian de Palma movie about Harpie
Speaker 1: Weinstein that he just announced he's making maybe not something
Speaker 1: that I'm like expecting a lot of. Oh. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's hard because I love Carrie and I think it's
Speaker 1: a very feminist horror movie. I also am like, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's better than not doing anything, I guess,
Speaker 1: but it's really hard when you hear a man, a
Speaker 1: white man in their seventies, be like, you know, I
Speaker 1: really want to show a woman's perspective. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm a woman. A woman might be able to do
Speaker 1: that pretty effectively that a woman this interesting exploit can't.
Speaker 1: Why can't men have opinions with others like you can
Speaker 1: have opinions. You just also have fifty million movies made
Speaker 1: by man about this and maybe a couple because Anna
Speaker 1: Biller is also saying like she's making a blue Beard movie.
Speaker 1: We're all big fans of the blue Beard. But that's
Speaker 1: you know, that's why men would like some men that
Speaker 1: would like robots to just replace women, because then you
Speaker 1: don't have to feel bad about putting them in the
Speaker 1: junk Room. It's a horror movie, so you have to
Speaker 1: be able to show the horror. I get that, right,
Speaker 1: But she was just saying, like horrors becomes so narrow
Speaker 1: that like nothing has advanced in the genre, even like
Speaker 1: the meta thing meta critiques of the Final Girl genre
Speaker 1: kind of just like reinforce. You know, this one girl
Speaker 1: is better than all the other girls. And I think
Speaker 1: the thing that's like more egregious to me is like,
Speaker 1: sure you can, you can have that structure, but like
Speaker 1: when you can feel the film is trying to be like,
Speaker 1: look girl Power after watching you know, usually the same girl,
Speaker 1: even the girl who prevails in the end, getting brutalized throughout,
Speaker 1: it just feels like I'd rather just have the straight
Speaker 1: version of that instead of you trying to pose it
Speaker 1: as being some kind of political statement, which obviously if
Speaker 1: it is at all, it's very lacking in the actual
Speaker 1: feminist department. Like I feel like there's some quote maybe
Speaker 1: it's like an Antonioly quote or something like that that
Speaker 1: I saw recently. It's just like like films really aren't
Speaker 1: like I mean, yes, there's like political documentaries and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, and there's like more didactic narratives, but in general,
Speaker 1: films are more are are emotional and not political. I
Speaker 1: feel like the politics have to be how it's made
Speaker 1: because if you try, if you start trying to say,
Speaker 1: like this is a feminist horror film or something, then
Speaker 1: like then you're trying to teach or something through the film.
Speaker 1: And that's ultimately not what I want from the movies,
Speaker 1: especially like it's not what I want from movies made
Speaker 1: by women. Like I want women to be able to
Speaker 1: explore all sorts of like crazy horrific nightmare scenarios and
Speaker 1: like all like unleash there, you know, darkest nightmares on
Speaker 1: the screen in the same way that guys have gotten
Speaker 1: to And like I think that that is inherently feminist
Speaker 1: because you've prioritized their voice. It doesn't mean the film itself,
Speaker 1: the text of the film is feminist necessarily, you know,
Speaker 1: Like it's not. It's not feminist just by virtue of
Speaker 1: like having women in it, you know, which is I
Speaker 1: think that's what happens defending this kind of horror. Like oh,
Speaker 1: but like it stars some girls and it's like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and they all get slaughtered except for one, and then
Speaker 1: she's like haunted, Like you can be a woman who
Speaker 1: likes something that has girls in it or has women
Speaker 1: in it, like a story, and that doesn't also make
Speaker 1: that a feminist story. Like, I think that people just
Speaker 1: have a limited vocabulary and how to talk about these
Speaker 1: things because honestly, we don't get that many of them
Speaker 1: to talk about. That's what I'm saying. And I think
Speaker 1: like some of the things that have become like feminist films,
Speaker 1: Uh my mom's friend be Ruby Rich, who's a really
Speaker 1: great film critics scholar, wrote a book called chick Flix
Speaker 1: that talks about just like Rust Myer movies, how Rust
Speaker 1: my movies like feminists love them because they're all about
Speaker 1: like groups of women, and most of them don't involve
Speaker 1: as women getting caught killed off. It's like they're incidentally
Speaker 1: about a group of like female characters that are really
Speaker 1: interesting even though they're just meant to be like sexploitation movies.
Speaker 1: They like are better than most movies that have female
Speaker 1: characters because they treat that female characters as people. But
Speaker 1: Annabella talks about like rest Myer movies in this longer
Speaker 1: essay that she has on her website, kind of you know,
Speaker 1: being like, yeah, those are fun, you can enjoy them
Speaker 1: and enjoy them apart from them being feminist or whatever.
Speaker 1: You can enjoy them because it's fun to watch these
Speaker 1: characters like do silly shit or whatever, you know, like
Speaker 1: or or have revenge on guys or whatever. Like just
Speaker 1: because they're killing a man doesn't make it feminist. You
Speaker 1: don't know. And it's like they passed the Bechdel tests,
Speaker 1: like incidentally, yeah, you know, but yeah, that's the thing. Else,
Speaker 1: Like I'm glad they were kind of past that, But
Speaker 1: I used to be a huge thing of like, well,
Speaker 1: it passes the Bechdel test, it must be feminist. I mean,
Speaker 1: like and people, you know, I feel like there's a
Speaker 1: lot of discussion around this with like Wonder Woman too,
Speaker 1: because you know, that's obviously a superhero woman about a
Speaker 1: female superhero directed by women. But I wouldn't necessarily call
Speaker 1: it feminist exactly. Like it's still about like war mongreem.
Speaker 1: It was anti war. That's why I liked it that
Speaker 1: it was an anti war war movie. Annals, So I
Speaker 1: liked that it was World War One because the World
Speaker 1: War One, the World War One so much. Oh, it's
Speaker 1: like the least favorite cinematic war are you talking about?
Speaker 1: Like come on the barracks. I hate the barracks. I
Speaker 1: hate all the blood trench trench warfares. So I'm just saying, like,
Speaker 1: there are way too many World War two movies and
Speaker 1: way too many Vietnam movies, and like no World War
Speaker 1: One movies, and it's such an interesting war. I also thought,
Speaker 1: I mean the thing to me, I liked Wonder Woman,
Speaker 1: I'm not a superhero movie. I like it fine, I
Speaker 1: didn't think it was feminist, That's what I'm saying. It's
Speaker 1: like I liked it, okay, but it's like not a
Speaker 1: feminist movie to be. What made it. The thing that
Speaker 1: I thought made it feel feminist as opposed to other
Speaker 1: superhero movies was just like the lack of jiggliness in it,
Speaker 1: and compared to like every other version of One Woman
Speaker 1: I've ever seen, I was like, this woman is outfitted
Speaker 1: for battle, and we never saw her cleavage on display
Speaker 1: in the way that you do in any other superhero movie,
Speaker 1: which bring just like the comic book character costumes that
Speaker 1: are always like, you know, have the tit window or
Speaker 1: it's just like the camera like leering of the body
Speaker 1: or whatever. Right, there was none of that, and I
Speaker 1: was just like I'm so unused to that that I
Speaker 1: noticed it constantly during that movie because I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, a woman made this movie, That's what
Speaker 1: it was. And like the one really leering shot was
Speaker 1: like Crispin's ask, you know what I mean when I
Speaker 1: was just like, oh, what if women were in charge
Speaker 1: of everything? It would be different? Um, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think you're right though too, that like the solution
Speaker 1: is not like more tent pole movies, but like with
Speaker 1: A Ladies Touch, it's like more weird indie movies that
Speaker 1: are specific. Yeah, I mean. The good thing about Wonder
Speaker 1: Woman is like I think, not that she ultimately decides
Speaker 1: to fight on World War One, but that like she
Speaker 1: she her whole point of being is like I am,
Speaker 1: like I want to promote the causes of love and beauty,
Speaker 1: which is basically like Sailor Moon's catchphrase like which is
Speaker 1: which is not a thing that you usually hear superhero say.
Speaker 1: But then she uses that same philosophy to like go
Speaker 1: fight World War one, So I don't know, she doesn't fight.
Speaker 1: Though she crosses the battlefield, She's like, everybody stopped fighting.
Speaker 1: This is stupid? Why is warm? I related to Wonder
Speaker 1: Woman because she's like an alien who's like, I don't
Speaker 1: know what sex is, m is, so I just don't
Speaker 1: know that it like if I encounter it, I'm just
Speaker 1: like Hall, which is how I went through life until
Speaker 1: like probably like twenty one was just like none of
Speaker 1: this applies to me because I come from the Amazon,
Speaker 1: you know, um, and then the world beats you down.
Speaker 1: But it was very I don't know, I think I
Speaker 1: was also just when I saw that movie, I was
Speaker 1: like crying because I was like a woman got to
Speaker 1: make a dollar. And there were all these little girls
Speaker 1: in the screening that I was in who were so stoked,
Speaker 1: and I was like terry just looking at them because
Speaker 1: I was like, this has for you. I'm sure, yeah
Speaker 1: that we have things now like Wonder Woman in Black Panther,
Speaker 1: and it's like stupid that it took so long to
Speaker 1: get them, because like the whole point I thought always
Speaker 1: of comic books was like these inclusive universes, were like
Speaker 1: everybody has powers that are special, and then they just
Speaker 1: kept making the same kind of Batman, boring Man pain
Speaker 1: movie over and over again. So I just want to
Speaker 1: say though, like I'm a big fan of Fatman and
Speaker 1: Batman is a millionaire who works for cops. He sucks.
Speaker 1: He sucks, and that's exactly why he's an interesting He's
Speaker 1: an AUNTI here. I I was always very drawn to Batman.
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just standing for Batman. Really briefly, there's
Speaker 1: nothing feminist about Batman, but I like I only like
Speaker 1: ban and I didn't The cop thing I never connected
Speaker 1: for me. But I liked that he was like a
Speaker 1: rich man who was a goth kind of. I liked
Speaker 1: that he had a very like violent beginning, like the
Speaker 1: parents were brutally. I was just like, Okay, this sounds
Speaker 1: pretty good. This is a fascinating movie for grown ups
Speaker 1: that here I am watching. It's clearly not made for
Speaker 1: children at all. Got tricked. The only good Batman movies
Speaker 1: are the Tim Burton Batman movies. I love them Batman movies.
Speaker 1: If a woman made a Batman movie that objectified Batman
Speaker 1: so that he was like just super hot and it
Speaker 1: was just a cat Woman, yeah, yeah, I'm not interested
Speaker 1: in Catwoman. I'm oversaturated with cats by Now, what if
Speaker 1: Catwoman made the movie? If cat Oh yeah, okay, speaking
Speaker 1: of horror that seemingly objectifies Matt and it's weird. Emily,
Speaker 1: you saw Upgrade a bloom House. It's not how you
Speaker 1: say blum House. Somehow, I'm house production, but it's a
Speaker 1: house hilt, which is there like micro budget sub shingle.
Speaker 1: I was really stoked about that because you wrote a
Speaker 1: really really great rave review of Upgrade for New York Magazine,
Speaker 1: just being like, hey, this movie was fun. I expected.
Speaker 1: I knew nothing about it and expected nothing, and then
Speaker 1: it was great. And then a bunch of people I
Speaker 1: know went out and saw it because of your review's
Speaker 1: great thought. I was like, this is great. Also, I
Speaker 1: love the idea of like critics doing what you really
Speaker 1: would like them to do, which is like pointing out
Speaker 1: movies that would otherwise maybe not you know, hit because
Speaker 1: people are so inoculated. I wish that that was most
Speaker 1: of the job, because that's the most fun thing, is
Speaker 1: when you feel like you have a cause and you
Speaker 1: can be like, go do this now, go see this
Speaker 1: movie most of the time. That I also renew to
Speaker 1: a drift this week, which I did not even pal media.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, I've heard you complain just in
Speaker 1: general about like tent poles and sort of like the ways.
Speaker 1: Also now in which critics are like sort of bribed
Speaker 1: to not give tentpoles bad reviews. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: think their critics are bribed not to You're not bribed,
Speaker 1: but like that you can only come to the premiere
Speaker 1: if you're giving it a good review or whatever, right,
Speaker 1: I mean I think like, I think that more in
Speaker 1: a more egregious way, Like you saw what happened with
Speaker 1: like l A Times, um like not not giving not
Speaker 1: giving them a bad review for I forget what movie
Speaker 1: that was at that point. It was some I think
Speaker 1: it was Last Jedi Maybe I can't remember, honestly, um,
Speaker 1: but not getting invited to the premier because LA Times
Speaker 1: had done a big investigative report on Disneyland and like
Speaker 1: how much it's paying its employees and everything, and they
Speaker 1: kind of got this blowback in the form of not
Speaker 1: being invited to this premiere. There's like a whole long
Speaker 1: or like a discussion to be had about access or
Speaker 1: in a journalism. I mean, there's a reason that, like,
Speaker 1: and that was crazy because that was like it wasn't
Speaker 1: it also wasn't like you gave a Star Wars movie
Speaker 1: a bad review. It was like you talked about how
Speaker 1: like custodians at Disneyland are dying in their cars because
Speaker 1: they are so underpaid and overworked. Uh, and that's what
Speaker 1: they don't want you to report it, and they don't
Speaker 1: care what you think about it doesn't affect their bottom line.
Speaker 1: If somebody from l A Times no offense to Justin Chang,
Speaker 1: who I like a lot, but like his review of
Speaker 1: like the Infinity War movie or whatever, isn't going to
Speaker 1: really massively affect. Uh. This idea that like those movies
Speaker 1: are too big to fail obviously, like with Solo not
Speaker 1: doing as well as they wanted it to, is like
Speaker 1: I don't know. I wonder if there will be pushed
Speaker 1: back on that of like, yeah, you know, these movies
Speaker 1: are just gonna come out and you're gonna eat it
Speaker 1: because that's what's for dinner. People didn't eat Solo. It
Speaker 1: did not do that well, which is interesting, Like it
Speaker 1: feels like even Star Wars doesn't have the power of
Speaker 1: Marvel at this point. But right, well, it's also like
Speaker 1: I saw a couple of people being like, oh, movies
Speaker 1: starring white men, Like, guess we better not make any
Speaker 1: of those anymore. Yeah, that's how the coverage was, like
Speaker 1: is for other things, but like the upgrade is fun
Speaker 1: just because it does feel like a kind of thing
Speaker 1: that doesn't get made anymore. First of all, it's like
Speaker 1: super gross in like a very carpentery way that I
Speaker 1: really appreciate. Um. I mean, it's made by Lee Whannel.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you say his last name, but
Speaker 1: he's like the guy who like he co created this
Speaker 1: the Saw movies, which I don't care for, but like
Speaker 1: he obviously has a great love of like on screen viscera.
Speaker 1: But I think in the in the context of a
Speaker 1: kind of sci fi gross out, it's all semi slapstick movie.
Speaker 1: It's really fun. The premise is that this guy uh
Speaker 1: becomes a quadriplegic in his accent, he gets like hijacked
Speaker 1: by these like nefarious like cyborg dudes and it becomes
Speaker 1: a quadriplegic. But then a like Zuckerbergian teenage like techmogul
Speaker 1: does some experimental surgery on him that like reconnects his
Speaker 1: brain with his nervous system so that he can walk again.
Speaker 1: But the thing that reconnects it is like an a
Speaker 1: I that also talks to him in his mind and
Speaker 1: can also do autopilot on his body if he wants,
Speaker 1: and just take over for him and like do insane
Speaker 1: martial arts. It's great. Yeah, I mean that also sounds
Speaker 1: like what I want horror to be is like a
Speaker 1: commentary on now right, you know, which is what I
Speaker 1: feel like. What Anabeller was really saying was like these
Speaker 1: genre tropes are like not fresh anymore. Like anything you
Speaker 1: think you're doing with Final Girls have been done, you know,
Speaker 1: Like when the Screen movies, which are like great movies
Speaker 1: that I love, like okay, like she has sex and
Speaker 1: she lives. That's like the last time I can think
Speaker 1: of somebody doing some And what I liked about the
Speaker 1: Screen movies too is that like as they go on,
Speaker 1: Sydney like doesn't get more badass, she gets like more
Speaker 1: and more traumatized and freaked out. With the third one,
Speaker 1: she's like living off the grid and it's like no
Speaker 1: one can be in my life because they'll get murdered,
Speaker 1: so it's just me and my dog. That's like the
Speaker 1: one one good thing about the Insidious movies. I think
Speaker 1: those movies are super boring. Otherwise, for ust of all,
Speaker 1: I like that one of the main carryover heroines of
Speaker 1: them is like an elderly woman that doesn't happen very often,
Speaker 1: and that she's also like, you know, it's about her
Speaker 1: getting increasingly just like freaked out from all of her
Speaker 1: ghost experiences, and like, oh, is that what Insidy says?
Speaker 1: Which ones are the found footage ones? That's paranormal activity.
Speaker 1: I get all of these confused. And the conjuring is
Speaker 1: the haunted doll. Conjurine is like a conjuring and the
Speaker 1: Annabelle movies are related. Yeah, I'm realizing in our discussions
Speaker 1: about haunted dolls, might it might not do anything for me.
Speaker 1: I might just like, like dolls, you're immune. I might
Speaker 1: be the haunted doll. Then we'd be night doll. Speaking
Speaker 1: of night dolls, you can give us a night Doll
Speaker 1: at two four oh four six night or send us
Speaker 1: a text message to that same number, or send us
Speaker 1: an email to Night Call Podcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: You can also follow us on our socials. UM hit
Speaker 1: us up. The socials were on Twitter at Nightcall Pot,
Speaker 1: Instagram at Nightcalled Podcast. We are on Facebook at Nightcall Podcast. Guys.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. We'll see you all next week. Yeah,
Speaker 1: go see upgrade. Yeah, we'll see what happened to Milannia
Speaker 1: by the time this comes out, What if Milannia is
Speaker 1: a haunted all that would not suppose? That feels like
Speaker 1: the most most credible story, and you cracked it. We
Speaker 1: predicted it here first, even though by the time you
Speaker 1: hear this it will have already been confirmed to no wonder.
Speaker 1: Did anyone predict this? Well? We did. We did see
Speaker 1: you next week.