1 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,559 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace now online at crime online 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: dot com and on Sirius x Simo. A beloved radio 3 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: host and alleged drug ring, a pagan tercycle gang, and 4 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: a murder for higher I feel like I'm living like 5 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: the worst teen movie that you can't even make up 6 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 1: these details and someone would believe that, and this is 7 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: my life. He has a weapon, dropped the gun. Dropped 8 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: the gun. Hey dropped the gun. Dropped the gun, Sir. 9 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: It's so surreal because I've been waiting for this for 10 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: five years. She's young, she's beautiful, she has a gorgeous daughter, 11 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: a happy family of an incredible home. It looks like 12 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: it's out of a mac zine. And just to top 13 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: it all off, she's one of the most famous radio 14 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: DJs in a top ten city as far as media goes. 15 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: We're talking about Philadelphia. She's married to a husband, uh, 16 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: well known endocrinologist. I mean it looks how could you 17 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: even write a story, a success story like that April 18 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 1: Kaufman Until she's found dead. We have been on the 19 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: case from the get go. Has the case cracked wide open? 20 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: I Mancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for 21 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: being with us. I want to start at the very beginning. 22 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: Let's break it down and put it back together again. 23 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: Chuck Roberts, Vincent Til, Dr Daniel bober and Wendy Patrick 24 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: with me along with Alan and Jackie's always first to you, 25 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: Chuck Roberts, Crime Stories, investigative reporter. Let's start with the 26 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: discovery of April's body. Take me back to that day. 27 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: Tell me what happened. The couple, as you said, had 28 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: a beautiful home. Heated the pool outside seven thousand square 29 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: foot home in Linwood, New Jersey, outside Atlantic City. A 30 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 1: handyman found her body on hold on whoa what sorry 31 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: sorry sorry sorry sorry? Seven thousand square foot home five 32 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:39,519 Speaker 1: whoa five bedroom, seven baths, uh in ground pool in 33 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: the back. It was quite a quite a property. He 34 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: was doing well. He was a very very successful into chronology. 35 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: I think my apartment is like twelve hundred square feet, 36 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: Alan Dick, my apartments like twelve d square feet and 37 00:02:53,480 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: um maybe maybe. And that's me, David and the children, 38 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: and sometimes I am irritated would have to get up 39 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: and run down the hall to try to find one 40 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: of the children. So okay, let me let me take 41 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: this in. Did you say seven thousand square feet in 42 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: heated pool. Not better, not better? Okay, go ahead, go ahead. 43 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,519 Speaker 1: I'm off the house now I'm moving on to the body. 44 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: I'm sorry that just caught my attention. I could I 45 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: couldn't help it. Wendy Patrick's Southern California prosecutor. Don't judge me, Okay, 46 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: you know it was like when I was prosecuting still, Wendy. 47 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: I don't know if this ever happens to you, but 48 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: I would be working on the weekends. Of course, we 49 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: had no money in the prosecutor's office. If I had 50 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: asked the elected d A then the longest serving d 51 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: A in the country thirty seven years, Louis Layton, I 52 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: think it was thirty seven from money, it wouldn't even 53 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: know what I was talking about. So I would be 54 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: going to buy my own poster board and markers and 55 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: blah blah blah on the weekends, trying to get my 56 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: opening and closing statements together. And I would be on 57 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: the floor working or trying to find witnesses and and 58 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: you know, crack houses and whorehouses and you name it. 59 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: And I would turn on the Martha Stewart Show in 60 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: the background, okay, and that's the one she had, Wendy, 61 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever saw this where she 62 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: I think she shot it at her real home. Would 63 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: and I wouldn't be surprised, and it was just too beautiful, 64 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:37,679 Speaker 1: and she wouldn't make seemingly make something beautiful out of nothing. 65 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: And I think it was just like a fantasy, like 66 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: an escape from what I'm doing. So don't judge me. Okay, 67 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: let me look into their beautiful home for a moment. Okay, 68 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: no judging. Back to you, Chuck Roberts. I'm off the 69 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: seven thousand square foot home and the heated pool. Now 70 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: tell me about the dead body. The body um and 71 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: called night handy man. Yes, on many tenelve, this is 72 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: April Kaufman uh and found her on responses, don't get mad, 73 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: don't get mad, Wendy Patrick. As a veteran prosecutor, you 74 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 1: immediately look and who found the body? A handy man 75 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: with access to the home. Yeah, that's a that's a 76 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: great point one. No doubt that was explored very well 77 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: between then and now, which is interesting that no charges 78 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: came against him, so it sounds like he was clean. Yeah, 79 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm sure that's the first thing police did is hone 80 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: in on the handyman who finds the dead body. All right, Chuck, Robert, 81 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: sorry about that? Go ahead. Well, he reported that she 82 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: had had cuts on her hand, when in fact she'd 83 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: been shot. Uh, And they responded, obviously and found her 84 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: with multiple gun try wait wait, wait, are you going 85 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: so fast? You're going to the fast? Did you say 86 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: it's like drinking out of a fire hydrant? Hold on? 87 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: Multiple gunshot wounds and she's got cuts on her hands, 88 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, private investigator, Vincent that screams defensive wounds to me, 89 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: but I'm not sure what does it say to you? 90 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: Cuts on her hands, but she was shot dead, multiple 91 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: gunshot wounds, Yeah, Nancy can either be defensive wounds or 92 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 1: it could have been at the handyman sold blood on 93 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: her hands that she likely held her gunshot wounds trying 94 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: maybe to stop the bleeding. And you know a lot 95 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: of people that aren't trained on the crime scenes and 96 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: trained on these types of injuries could misconceived something for uh, 97 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: something other than it was. So he may have seen 98 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: the blood, it could have been defensive wounds, or she 99 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 1: could have you been holding those wounds. Yeah, you know what, 100 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: you're right. I remember with the body of Travis Alexander 101 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: and a lot of bodies that I represented those dead 102 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: victims in court. There's so much blood you can't tell 103 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: what it is. You don't know if, like they didn't know, 104 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: if Travis Alexander at first had been shot multiple times, 105 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: stab multiple times. There's so much blood covering his body 106 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: you can't tell. You have to get the body to 107 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: the Emmy's medical examiner's office. The more the corners for 108 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: them to clean the body and process the body to 109 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: determine what really happened. So let's let's start right there. 110 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: You know what I love, Wendy Patrick. I don't know 111 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: if you feel the same way, but I love playing 112 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: a nine one one call because it takes me and 113 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: the jury back to that moment. And no matter how 114 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: many times I listened to a nine one one call, 115 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: very often I will learn something new. It might be 116 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: very small, but I learned something new. Do you feel 117 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: the same way, window absolutely, And you know the demeanor 118 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: and tone of boys you and I have probably both 119 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: used to gauge the authenticity and the veracity of what's 120 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: being said on that call. There's just so many vote 121 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: cues that there's just no other way to be able 122 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,119 Speaker 1: to discern. And that really struck me in this case 123 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: listening to the nine one one call is he didn't 124 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: sound guilty. And you know, even so, as has been 125 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: pointed out aptly, you know, he may have misperceived and 126 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: misreported what he saw. He sounded like he was telling 127 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: the truth. I agree with you right there. I agree, 128 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick. I main, here's the deal. Nine one one 129 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: calls blood spatter. You know I could talk about that 130 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: all day. Hey, let's stop. Dr Daniel Bober please, forensic 131 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: psychiatrist joining me, Please listen along with me to the 132 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: nine one one call reporting April Kaufman, beautiful mom and 133 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: popular DJ Dead. I'm in the mercer, I had my 134 00:08:51,640 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: bond down. Who would dog dribe Lynwood? Who would try? Yes, ma'am, okay, 135 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: hold on, I'm transferring to the rescue appert to get 136 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: down the line. One minute, okay, in okay, Actually he's 137 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: out of calling, calling me My partner on the floor 138 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: in her bedroom and he got a cut on her arm, 139 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: and who would dog dry? So it's interesting to me 140 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: to Dr Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrists joining me again, Thank you, 141 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: Dr Bober. Uh. Dr Bober. I find it interesting relationship 142 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: wise that he refers to her as his boss. That's 143 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: how he says, my boss, And that tells me a 144 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: lot about their relationship that is not very personal, seems 145 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 1: sort of cold and sort of all business. I think 146 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,239 Speaker 1: you're right. I don't know that I would call it cold, 147 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: but I would agree it's a business relationship. And if 148 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: the handyman is going to kill April, then you would 149 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 1: expect there would have been more of a relationship, some 150 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: anger or something to cause a murder. Again, to me, 151 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:27,319 Speaker 1: that rules out the handyman. So this woman, April Kaufman, 152 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: is found dead, found dead shot in the couple's bedroom 153 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: with lacerations apparently to her hands and arms. Officers from 154 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: the Lynwood p D respond to the call at Woodstock 155 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: Drive in Lynnwood. When they get there, what do they find, 156 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: shut Roberts exactly, that her body is lying face down 157 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,839 Speaker 1: in the bedroom. Uh. And the medical examiner, as you said, 158 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 1: was called and uh apparently she'd been shot twice. Although 159 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: the medical examiner UH reported multiple gunshot wounds. So twice 160 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: apparently is the is the final verdict on the number 161 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: of rounds. Uh? And then Kaufman the husband, Dr James Kaufman, 162 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: known to his patients as Dr Jim by the Way, 163 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: told police he had been at work and he denied 164 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: any involvement at all when he got to the residence. 165 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: So he had been at work and Vincent Hill, there 166 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: were plenty of people to give him an airtight alibi. 167 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: He was in fact at work at the time she 168 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: shot dead. Yeah, but here's the thing, Nancy. You don't 169 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: have to be at the scene of a murder to 170 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:41,199 Speaker 1: be behind the murder, right of course. You if any 171 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: time you're looking at a spouse, you're probably prime suspect 172 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: number one. So you want to remove yourself from that 173 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: scene as much as you can. So, of course this 174 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: doctor would be away from that scene. Gunned down in 175 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: her own master bedroom. This talk show host, who had 176 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: very widely campaign for veterans, is dead in her upscale 177 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: Linden home. Now police start the search, the search for 178 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: a suspect and the murder of this much loved DJ 179 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: and mom again. Her husband, Dr James Coffman says his 180 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: wife was asleep when he leaves for work that morning 181 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: he heads to work. You know, you can tell based 182 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: on rigor. Rigor mortis very often how long a body 183 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: has been dead. Dr Daniel Bober. Based on rigor, they 184 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: determined that she was in fact shot after he goes 185 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: to work. So how do you tell that, Dr Bober? 186 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: You're not just as psychiatrist, you're an m D as well. 187 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: And see what happens is there are changes in the 188 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: proteins of the muscles that during after death. Because there's 189 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: no blood, there's no profusion, there's no oxygen, these proteins breakdown, 190 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: which caused the muscles to become stiff, which is how 191 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 1: you get rigor mortis. So to put it in regular 192 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:06,319 Speaker 1: people talk, Dr Daniel Bober, you stiffen up. You stiffen 193 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: up when the blood stops flowing. Oxygen is no longer 194 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: going to the various parts of your body, and your 195 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: body becomes stiff. Now, after a number of hours, the 196 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: rigular loosens up. But in this instance they could tell 197 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:27,599 Speaker 1: based on lividity. Lividity is where your blood is in 198 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: your body. In other words, you fall flat on your face, 199 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: all the blood in your body stops circulating and goes 200 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: down to the lowest level, yes, cooling. They could tell 201 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: from that as well, because that takes a certain amount 202 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: of time. To do. Also, you can tell from the 203 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: temperature of the body. Once you die, your body immediately 204 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: starts losing temperature and you essentially become the temperature of 205 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: the ambiance room around you. So there's many ways to 206 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: tell how long she had been dead. And she absolutely 207 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: was shot after the husband goes to work. Her bullet 208 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: riddled body was found at eleven thirty a m. That 209 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: Thursday by houseworker who called that's what we know now. 210 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: She was shot multiple times in the bedroom. That's about 211 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: twelve miles away from one of the gambling capitals of 212 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: the world, Atlantic City. Our investigation into the brutal murder 213 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: of wife, mother, veterans advocate and popular DJ April Kaufman. 214 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: Why did it have to happen? We couldn't do that 215 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: without our partners. Our partner, Legal Zoom is making our 216 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: program possible. And here's my question to you, what will 217 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: be your story in two thousand eighteen, the holiday rush 218 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: is over. I can't blame that anymore. Legal Zoom can 219 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: help you make this the big year before all the 220 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: distractions take hold. The you're you finally get serious about 221 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: launching and running your own business. Rest easier knowing your 222 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: family's future is squared away with the right estate plan. 223 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: Legal Zoom has been helping people like us take care 224 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: of dreams and responsibilities over sixteen years. Going on twenty years, 225 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: they've been helping people. The good news is they're not 226 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: a law firm, but they have a nationwide network of 227 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: independent lawyers to keep you on the right path, including 228 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: legal advice at your fingertips. Whether you want to take 229 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: your business to the next level or take control of 230 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: your family's future with an estate plan, legal Zoom plugs 231 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: right into your life so you can take care of 232 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: the things that matter the most. You know. I heard 233 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: a quote the other day. I think it was by 234 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: Um Eisenhower. It was what is urgent may not be important. 235 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: What is important may not be urgent. In other words, 236 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: did I pay that bill? Did I this? Did I that? 237 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: It seems so important, but really it's not not always 238 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: as important as you think. It's the big things in life, 239 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: Like have I taken care of my family's future. It 240 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: doesn't seem urgent, but it's so important. And that is 241 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: when legal Zoom enters get off to a strong start. 242 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: In two thousand and eighteen, at legal zoom dot com, 243 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: get special savings when you enter Nancy in a n 244 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: C Y in the promo box and check out legal 245 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: Zoom where life meets legal Legal Zoom. Thank you not 246 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: only for being our partner today, but for what you 247 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: were doing for Americans all across the country every day. Guys, 248 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:54,119 Speaker 1: we're diving right back into the murder of April Kaufman 249 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: because in the last hours there's been a very big 250 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: break in the case. Atlantic City, one of the gambling 251 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: capitals of the world, and coincidentally, not too far from there, 252 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: this woman has found dead, multiple gunshot wounds in the 253 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: master bedroom of her home. So we've established a business 254 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: relationship between her and the handyman. Her daughter is an adult, 255 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: uh well almost an adult, and she has an alibi 256 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: for that day. I established that daughter very loving idolized 257 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: her mom, not a suspect. We've established the husband left 258 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: that morning before she was shot based on forensics evidence. 259 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: He had an airtight alibi. He was at work seeing patients. 260 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: So what happens the case seemingly goes cold. Joining me 261 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: Chuck Roberts, Vincent Hill, Dr Daniel and Wendy Patrick. Wendy Patrick, 262 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 1: Southern California Prosecutor. When your case goes cold. What do 263 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: you do? But you've got to warm up the cold case, Nancy. 264 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: And the only way to do that is reopen it 265 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 1: as if it was just assigned to you. You remember 266 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: the thrill of getting a great new case, and it 267 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: just happened. It's all over the news. It's difficult to 268 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: recreate that momentum. But that's what cold case units do, 269 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: is if there's a break, it's assigned to somebody and 270 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: it's worked up as if it were a fresh case. 271 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 1: And that apparently is what happened here, which led to 272 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 1: the accumulation of evidence that finally was able to get 273 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: us the breaks that we needed. Neighbors stated that they 274 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 1: witnessed Dr Kaufman distressed arriving at the murder scene, telling 275 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: them his wife was asleep with a pillow over her 276 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 1: face when he went to work early early that morning. 277 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 1: I'm just imagining it all play out in my mind. 278 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: She's asleep, Dr Bober, forensic psychiatrist. She's got the pillow 279 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: over her face. He gets up quietly and leaves the 280 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: house so we won't wake her up. Let's take a 281 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: look at him. He was wanting to leave his practice. 282 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: He wanted he had been working for years. They had 283 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,959 Speaker 1: bought a home in Arizona and they wanted to relocate. 284 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: So what does this mean to him that he no 285 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: longer has a wife? What do you go through when 286 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: you lose a spouse, not only lose them, but lose 287 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: them in a violent manner and nobody knows what really happened. 288 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: That's that's pain compounded, Nancy. We know that the two 289 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: most stressful things that could happen to someone in their 290 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: life is the death of a spouse or the death 291 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: of a child. Uh. And people who experienced these events 292 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: are essentially devastated. You would be uh incapacitated and you 293 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: probably will not be able to work, not be able 294 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: to function for a certain period of time. They are 295 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: in a state of shock. Uh And it takes them 296 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: a long time to be able to even return to life, 297 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: which as we know, will never be normal. One person 298 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: seemed to be very sure who was the killer, and 299 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: that is April Kaufman's daughter. From the very beginning, she 300 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: said she knew she knew who did it. Joining me 301 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 1: is Alan Duke in l A. Jackie Howard with me 302 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: here in the studio. Alan, the daughter always claimed she 303 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,719 Speaker 1: knew what happened, tell me yes. And in fact she 304 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 1: she filed a civil suit against her stepfather a wrong. 305 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: So her husband, Dr. Kaufman is not the bio dad 306 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: of the daughter. No, this is her stepfather. So so 307 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 1: there you add that layer of it. But she was 308 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: always suspicious of him. She was pushing investigators of the 309 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: prosecutor to do something for years and finally when this 310 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: new prosecutor came on board, was right about the same 311 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: time that she had a law firm ready to file 312 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: a civil suit against her stepfather, which is now pending. 313 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: Way before crack in the case, the daughter of April 314 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: Kaufman files a civil suit. Her name is Kim Pack. 315 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: From the very beginning, she said, I don't care if 316 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: he had an alibi. I don't care if my mom 317 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: somehow was murdered after he left. He did it. I 318 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: don't know how he did it, but he did it, 319 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,199 Speaker 1: and I'm going to prove he did it. That is 320 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: what the daughter said, and she never ever stopped. So 321 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 1: what was uncovered to Chuck Roberts Crime Stories investigative reporter, 322 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: how did it unfold? It really unfolded when she asked 323 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: James Kaufman for a divorce and he wouldn't give it 324 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: to her. Uh, And the tension grew and grew, and 325 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: obviously the daughter had to be privy to that. I mean, 326 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: her mom was in distress. I did not know the 327 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 1: world did not know that she April wanted a divorce 328 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: and Kaufman wouldn't do it. I mean, really, if somebody 329 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: wants a divorce, why do you want them anyway? Let 330 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 1: them go. I know your heart, I know you're hurt, 331 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: I know you're broken in half. But who wants somebody 332 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: that doesn't want to be with them? For Pete's sake, 333 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 1: there's somebody else out there. No offense you men on 334 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: the panel. But my mother always said men are like buses. 335 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: There'll be a knee one in fifteen minutes, when another 336 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: one will just come right along. I'm not suggesting your 337 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: interchangeable Alan Duke, don't get all crazy, but I mean, 338 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: if she wants a divorce, give her a divorce. But 339 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: he said no. He was quoted as saying he didn't 340 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,959 Speaker 1: want to give up half of his financial empire. And 341 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: that's what the divorce, you know, would entail. Uh, division 342 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 1: of assets. He didn't want to give up half of 343 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 1: his financial empire. Half of his assets. Well, Dr Daniel Bober, 344 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: forensic psychiatrist, there's nothing to make a woman feel wanted 345 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: then to tell her, well, I would divorce you, but 346 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: I'd lose half my money. You know that that really 347 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: warms your heart, Nancy. This is something I see in 348 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: my patents all the time, especially people have been married 349 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: for years. A lot of times they'll stay in relationships 350 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: that are not healthy or they're not they don't find fulfilling, 351 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: specifically for that reason because they don't want to lose 352 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: the money. And it sounds like sort of an evil 353 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: motivation to stay, but very often that is the motivator. Well, 354 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: I I tell you that made me a little bit 355 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: suspicious when he didn't want to split his income, but 356 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 1: that's pretty common. But what really raise the hair on 357 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: the back of my neck is when he did not 358 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: want to hand over a d in a sample. That 359 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: is what made me suspicious into this. How do you 360 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 1: feel about the prosecutor requesting a DNA sample from James Kaufman. 361 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 1: You know, I think that I've been waiting for a 362 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,959 Speaker 1: very long time for any kind of movement, and I 363 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: feel like I've been in this by myself. So when 364 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: I heard, just like the rest of the population, that 365 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: UM the news had reported that they were requesting a 366 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: DNA sample. I was overwhelmed with so many emotions. I 367 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: can't even explain. UM, just for the fact that this 368 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: means something maybe to this current prosecutor, and that there 369 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: is forward progression. Like I said to you UM in 370 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: the past, I can't pretend to know why or what 371 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: they're using this for. UM. They keep their criminal um 372 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 1: investigation very close to their test um. But it it 373 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: it's so surreal because I've been waiting for this for 374 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: five years. To Wendy Patrick, Southern California Prosecutor, Wendy, when 375 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: people refused to submit to a lie detector or a 376 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: d n A test or come in for questioning immediately, 377 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: that doesn't make them guilty, but immediately, to me, it 378 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 1: makes them very suspicious. You know, it certainly does. And 379 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: it's interesting you chose the examples you did because obviously 380 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 1: the lie detector test, although it's not admissible in court, 381 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: it is an investigative tool that we use, and sometimes 382 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: it's precisely for the reason you cite. It's because it's 383 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: credibility that counts in every single case, no matter who 384 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: you are now the inability or the unwillingness, whichever it is, 385 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 1: to submit to forensics, whether it's d n A, whether 386 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 1: it's some other kind of a sample, hair saliva, however 387 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: you get it, whether or not you've got a constitutional 388 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: right to refuse, which of course is always being litigated. 389 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: The fact that you refuse is often a fact in 390 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: the case. Sometimes something the jury ends up finding out 391 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: about that makes you look ill. So you've got him 392 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: refusing to give his d n A. He has not 393 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: been named with suspect or a person of interests, no 394 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: way the police can make him give d n A. 395 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: If you are suspect, then a warrant can be obtained 396 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: and you can be forced to give your d n A. 397 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 1: The constitution does not protect you from giving, for instance, 398 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: d n A or writing exemplar or coming to a lineup. 399 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,199 Speaker 1: You have to do that under the law, okay, But 400 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: you can, of course insist on your right to remain silent. 401 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: But since he wasn't named a suspect, they couldn't force 402 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: him to give d n A. Over and over, the 403 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: daughter continued to claim the stepfather is the killer. Still 404 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 1: nothing would make him hand over DNA or really even cooperate. 405 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: So what finally happened? A new d A came in, 406 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,919 Speaker 1: including a fleet of new investigators. The investigators worked the 407 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 1: streets and began to hear rumors about regularities within Kaufman's clinic. 408 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: Fantastically profitable clinic to Chuck Roberts, climb stores investigative reporter. 409 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 1: What happens? Then? This case was cold for so long, 410 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: generated a lot of social media Facebook page Justice for 411 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: April Kaufman was started, um, and really not much happened 412 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: until a new district attorney came on the scene and 413 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: decided to really dig into this and assign a lot 414 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: of prosecutors and resources to solving this crime and took 415 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: a hard look at what Dr Kaufman was up to. 416 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: Uh and later found out that he was involved with Uh, 417 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,439 Speaker 1: sort of a pill mill. Who saw that coming? Not me? 418 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: This prominent New Jersey doctor in the shadows of Atlantic 419 00:27:53,359 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 1: City gambling capital and an illegal prescription drug with a 420 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: motorcycle gang exactly the Pagan Outlaws which had their biggest 421 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: chapter in Philadelphia in just across five ninety miles away. Uh. Yeah, 422 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 1: Kaufman was at the top, according to prosecutors of a 423 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,919 Speaker 1: drug distribution hierarchy. Uh. And he did it with the 424 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: help of the pagan outlaws. Uh. And they would send 425 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: him clients and he would, for a thousand dollars write 426 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: them prescriptions for percocets or any other kind of opioid 427 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: that was on the market, oxycodone, OxyContin uh. And then 428 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: uh the motorcycle gang intermediary would resell it using the 429 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: gang to others on the street. And that went on 430 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: for years. In fact, they went on for five years. 431 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: Please they get a search for it. But it didn't 432 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 1: go down the way they planned. As a matter of fact, 433 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: there was a standoff. Dr Coffman refused to let police 434 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: in the door. In fact, he held himself hostage. Yeah 435 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: you heard me right, This prominent doctor, he's rolling in money, 436 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: holds himself hostage with a gun to his head. Listen 437 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: to this. Don't coming back, coming back, coming back down. 438 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: Hold on, he's coming out, it's coming out. The strict five. 439 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: District five got one gun point. We have one a 440 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: gun point. Dr James colfor I have won a gun point. 441 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: Dr James calf and he has a weapon. Dropped the 442 00:29:54,600 --> 00:30:00,040 Speaker 1: gun dropped the gun, Hey dropped the gun dropped a 443 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: gun a search warrant, Sir, dropped the gun to drop 444 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: drop the gun. Let's talk, sir, just drop the gun. 445 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: We have a search war. We have a search warr half. 446 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: I don't believe it, so we just search warrants. Put 447 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: the weapon, day, drop the weapon. Listen, let's talk. I 448 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: take it Alan, do you He did not make good 449 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: on his threat and kill himself. No, it was a 450 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: false threat. So you know, I've always been fascinating Wendy 451 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: patcheck with people that held himself hostage. It really came 452 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: to the forefront when O. J. Simpson took that little 453 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: ride with his buddy A. C. Callings and had a 454 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: gun on himself. I'm like, yeah, I didn't get it, 455 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: so he held himself hostage, Wendy. Yeah, you buy yourself 456 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: time that way as you try to decide what to 457 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: do next. We see this in a lot of different 458 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: types of cases, but it's another incident where you can 459 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: count that his consciousness of guilt, and you know it's 460 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: It's different if you are overcome with grief after having 461 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: lost a spouse, as we've discussed earlier. It is also 462 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: different when you have reactions other than holding yourself hostage. 463 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: There's just not an innocent way in most cases to 464 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: interpret that type of evidence, and it always winds its 465 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: way into the trial, and normally in a fashion that 466 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: doesn't help the defendant. You know, I'm always suspicious Visit Hill, 467 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: private investigator. What if cops said, Okay, go ahead, shoot yourself, 468 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: we're not going to deal with your kidnappers demands when 469 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: you're holding yourself hostage. I mean, it's like you put 470 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: the skids on everything when you put a gun to 471 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: your head. I don't think police would would definitely say that, Nancy, 472 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: But I think what they were concerned with, although he 473 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: did have the gun pointing at himself, if he watched 474 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: the body camp foot its, police kept their guns, you know, 475 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: drawn on him because at any given moment, he could 476 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: have turned that gun around and shot police. So I 477 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: think they handled it the way they should have handled 478 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: it based on their training and based on what I 479 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: saw in that video. Oh yeah, of course they did 480 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: the right thing Vincent Hill, because he could easily turn 481 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: the gun on innocent people in the clinic or on 482 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: the cops. So long story short, you got the husband 483 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: who has an airtight alibi who forensically could not have 484 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: been there at the time of the incident, refusing to 485 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: give his d N a clamming up, and then holding 486 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: himself hostage when cops want to look in his clinic. 487 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: Who saw that coming? Not me? But this civil lawsuit 488 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: filed by the daughter Kim Pack threatened to expose everything. 489 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: A divorce threatened to expose everything. If if if a 490 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 1: forensic accountant had gotten into his business and followed the 491 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: money trail, they would have found this opioid drug ring 492 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 1: and a new are a minute, guys were diving right 493 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: back into the murder of April Kaufman because in the 494 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: last hours there's been a very big break in the case. 495 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: But I want to switch gears. Everyone is talking about 496 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 1: super foods. I read about it in every magazine, I 497 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 1: hear about it on TV. I didn't even know what 498 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: it was. What's a super food? And then every time 499 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: there seems to be a new superfood, it's broccoli, It's this. 500 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: When I heard it was sun chokes, I didn't even 501 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: know what a sun choke was, but I started looking 502 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: up what are super foods? They are nutritionally dense foods, 503 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: very beneficial to your health. Did you know that beats 504 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,719 Speaker 1: are one of the most powerful super foods you can 505 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: put in your body loaded with an important nutrient that 506 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: increases your blood flow and that increases your energy. Enter 507 00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: super beats. Really, who has time to buy a prepare, 508 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: cook and eat that many beats a day. I do not. 509 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: Now you get the energy benefits of beats and a 510 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:14,320 Speaker 1: powerful concentrated super food, Drink super Beats only super beats 511 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: made from beats grown to exacting standards. Then they are 512 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:22,800 Speaker 1: concentrated down into super food crystals. You mix with water 513 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:28,280 Speaker 1: and it's delicious. Super Beats promotes your body's own natural 514 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 1: ability for healthy circulation, increased energy and stamina all day long. 515 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: That's what healthy circulation does. Your blood takes oxygen to 516 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: every part of your body, every organ of your body 517 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: to increase your energy. And I need energy. I get 518 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: up at five thirty every morning and go to bed 519 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: around midnight. Yes, I know I'm burning the candle at 520 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: both ends, but you gotta do what you gotta do, 521 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: and super Beats helps me get the energy I need 522 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 1: to keep going. If you want the benefits of a 523 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: powerful super food and you need the energy like I do, 524 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,919 Speaker 1: call eight hundred five one six zero six eight three 525 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: or go online. To Nancy's Beats dot com n A, 526 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: N C, Y S, B E E T S dot com. 527 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: With your first order you get a whole thirty days 528 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 1: supply of super Beats free in addition to your order, 529 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,839 Speaker 1: plus indicators trips to see how super Beats working for you, 530 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: plus free shipping. Call eight hundred five one six zero 531 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 1: six eight three or go to Nancy's Beats dot com 532 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,319 Speaker 1: today eight hundred five one six zero six eight three 533 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:48,280 Speaker 1: super Beats, Thanks for the energy. You really are super Food. 534 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: Back to the Atlantic City area and the death of 535 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 1: April Kaufman, who would have sunk it? Who would have 536 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: thunk it? To Dr Daniel Boberg. You're the forensic psychiatrist. 537 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:06,760 Speaker 1: How does a prominent, un rich, educated endocrinologists get hooked 538 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 1: up with the pagan outlaw motorcycle gang. And somebody tell 539 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: me that bober And so you know what, There's this 540 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 1: book called Sharks and Suits, and it talks about how 541 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: even the most successful people, in fact, some of the 542 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 1: most successful people are just antisocial. They're just evil. They 543 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,399 Speaker 1: are cunning, they don't have remorse, They steal, they lie, 544 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 1: they cheat, and very often that's how they become successful. 545 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 1: So this story doesn't surprise me so much. It just 546 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: shows that you really don't know what's going on under 547 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: the service, and there's a lot of wolves out there 548 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: in cheap's clothing. I had had any idea, Wendy Patrick, 549 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 1: veteran prosecutor in southern California, that this doctor was hooked 550 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: up with a motorcycle gang. No offense to motorcycle gangs. 551 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: I've put many of them on the standards witnesses and 552 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: they were very believable. But if I had known he 553 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: was hooked up with the pagan outlaws, I would immediately 554 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: try to connect the two in this murder. So, Wendy Patrick, 555 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 1: that is that how he did it? Yeah, you know, 556 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 1: it's so it's so interesting. We've got Dr Bober talking 557 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,479 Speaker 1: about one of my favorite books, Snakes and Suits, which 558 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: is about psychopathy in the workplace, is fascinating, and we've 559 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 1: got the motorcycle gang, which is a stereo type. So 560 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 1: you look at the two and think there's got to 561 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: be some connection beyond what meets the eye, and you 562 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,759 Speaker 1: wonder if maybe this is what April new uh and 563 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,720 Speaker 1: for her, of course, justice delayed has not been justice denied. 564 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: We now have a murder charge but she knew she 565 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: could tell, whether it's based on these associations or the 566 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: dynamics she saw behind the scenes, that her stepfather didn't 567 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: need to have been there to have been been behind 568 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: the attack. So his affiliation with the motorcycle gang was 569 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 1: definitely a red flag out of the ordinary, something to 570 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: be explored for sure, and actually did end up coming 571 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: to fruition and giving us the context out we now 572 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: find really did play a role in the March Roberts 573 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: crime stories. Investigative reporter Chuck Roberts, How did it all 574 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: go down? What? What was the doctor connected to a 575 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 1: motorcycle gang through the illegal drug ring? Exactly? That's that. 576 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: That's the connection and apparently that was uncovered as the 577 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: result of the raid on the doctor's office back in June. 578 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 1: Uh he was hooked up with a guy named Ferdinand 579 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: Jello of the Pagan Outlaws UH and then solicited because 580 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 1: he was being threatened by his wife for exposure a 581 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: hit on his wife through the Pagan Outlaws, and Jello 582 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 1: recruited at the end of about an eighteen month search 583 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:48,759 Speaker 1: an associate of the Pagan Outlaws again, Frank Moholland, who 584 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: police say was the one who entered the home and 585 00:38:53,320 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: shot April Kaufman. So according to the daughter Kim Pack, 586 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: this is how he did it. Why are there six 587 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:11,399 Speaker 1: pagan outlaws charged, including two women Chuck Roberts. What did 588 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,919 Speaker 1: they have to do with it? Well? One of them, Um, 589 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 1: the wife of a Jello, who's fifteen years younger than 590 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 1: her husband, Um and who has a was a successful 591 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:26,799 Speaker 1: of businesswoman herself, was the paymaster. The police say that 592 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: she was the one who delivered the twenty dollar payoff 593 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 1: to the hitman, Frank Bollholland. So that's her alleged role 594 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: in this. The others were just involved in supplying a 595 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:43,959 Speaker 1: regular supply of of clients to the doctor who would 596 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:48,360 Speaker 1: write these phony prescriptions for percocept and OxyContin and oxy 597 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: CoDown at a thousand dollars a pop. Uh. They were 598 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 1: they they supplied him with those customers basically, and they 599 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,840 Speaker 1: are part of that same criminal conspiracy you know, and 600 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,439 Speaker 1: other thing that happened. I mean, it all goes back 601 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,400 Speaker 1: in my mind to the love of money, not money 602 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 1: as the root of all evil, the love of money. 603 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 1: Because this guy would not divorce April because he didn't 604 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 1: want to give up half his empire. If he had, 605 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: he'd still be in his practice, running his drug ring 606 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: right now, living in his seven thousand square foot mansion 607 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,839 Speaker 1: with a heated pool. But no, he did not want 608 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: to split the money. He then, as soon as his 609 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: wife died, tried to fly off for two life insurance policies. 610 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 1: I mean, there was no end to his greed, his greed, 611 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 1: his love of money. So I want you to hear this, 612 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 1: the press announcement that so many people had been waiting for. 613 00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 1: Listen to the Atlantic County Prosecutor Damon G. Tie Today, 614 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: James Kaufman, aged sixty nine, and berdend Ajello, age sixty two, 615 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 1: were charged with murder in connection with the death of 616 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 1: April Kaufman, in addition to racketeering related to the illegal 617 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 1: distribution of narcotics through Kaufman's former medical practice. Additionally, Ajello 618 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: was charged with conspiracy to commit the murder of James M. Kaufman. 619 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 1: Upon information and believe known to my office, an individual 620 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,840 Speaker 1: named Francis Frank Maulholland was paid a sum of money 621 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:38,720 Speaker 1: to kill April Kaufman. Almost eighteen months after April Kaufman's murder, 622 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 1: uh Frank Maulholland died in October of two thousand thirteen 623 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 1: by at the time what was determined to be an 624 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:50,839 Speaker 1: accidental drug overdose. Investigation, we determined that a long term 625 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:56,040 Speaker 1: alliance between members of the Pagan Outlaw motorcycle Gang and 626 00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:01,959 Speaker 1: James Kaufman was created for the mutual financial gain through 627 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,839 Speaker 1: the use of Kaufman's medical practice for a legal drug distribution. 628 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,840 Speaker 1: This relationship ultimately culminated on May tent, two thousand twelve, 629 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 1: with the murder for hire of April Kaufman. Prior to 630 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,600 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, defendant Kaufman and Ferdinand all Jello had 631 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,440 Speaker 1: a relationship which centered around the medical practice, and then 632 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,040 Speaker 1: the summer of two thousand eleven, James Kaufman solicited all 633 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 1: Jello to murder his wife. So I want you to 634 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 1: hear this. This is Kim Pack, her daughter speaking after 635 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 1: the blockbuster announcement her stepfather has been charged in her 636 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 1: mother's murder. Listen to the daughter who said earlier, my 637 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 1: life was changed forever that day. As you can imagine, 638 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,759 Speaker 1: today is a very very difficult day for me. A 639 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:03,120 Speaker 1: lot of mixed emotions. Um as a victim, you know, 640 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,640 Speaker 1: May ten, two thousand and twelve forever changed my life. 641 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:14,160 Speaker 1: I UM have been waiting patiently for justice, and today 642 00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,440 Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to be granted justice. I do 643 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:19,840 Speaker 1: understand that this is going to give you loom process, 644 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,360 Speaker 1: and this is by no means over. I think for 645 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,800 Speaker 1: the first time today, I can actually breathe. For the 646 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,239 Speaker 1: past five and a half years, I have feel I 647 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,760 Speaker 1: felt like I've been holding my breath on a daily basis. 648 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:39,200 Speaker 1: I couldn't even begin to describe to you today, UM, 649 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 1: the emotions that I feel. I feel like I'm standing 650 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,840 Speaker 1: before you and I'm shaking. Wendy Patrick, I don't know 651 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 1: about you, but I remember I hadn't been at the 652 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,799 Speaker 1: Prosecutor's office too too long when I got called to 653 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 1: the d a's office and I walked and he was 654 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 1: reading the paper. Sit Mr Lighton, and I wouldn't dare 655 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,440 Speaker 1: sat down for pate sake, just stood there and he 656 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,640 Speaker 1: lowered the paper, goes, yeah, Nancy, I got a case, 657 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,560 Speaker 1: and I need you to put it back together. It 658 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:12,400 Speaker 1: got reversed. Uh his name Hamilton's, Yes, Sir. I left. 659 00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 1: I had no idea this case occurred many many years 660 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,640 Speaker 1: before before I even entered law school. Two guys gunned 661 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:25,240 Speaker 1: down Um, the brother of an Atlanta police officer, as 662 00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,160 Speaker 1: he was on his back terrorist with his fiancee toasting 663 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:34,360 Speaker 1: their engagement. That just happened, and the case was in 664 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,120 Speaker 1: such a disarray. I went to the evidence room. I mean, 665 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:41,279 Speaker 1: the case had been tried one the people were sentenced, 666 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: and had gone up on appeal three times, and then 667 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:51,279 Speaker 1: it came back down. Fourteen years had passed and I 668 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:55,759 Speaker 1: could find one X ray and a hat that said 669 00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,720 Speaker 1: kiss my bass. That's all the evidence I could find. 670 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:04,400 Speaker 1: And that's where I started putting together the case. Okay, 671 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:09,160 Speaker 1: putting together a case that has been languishing is very 672 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:13,760 Speaker 1: hard to do, but this prosecutor is doing it winding, 673 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,320 Speaker 1: that's right. We we often say cases unlike fine wine, 674 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:22,239 Speaker 1: do not improve with age, especially when you have all 675 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,319 Speaker 1: all kinds of evidence from different places that need to 676 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,480 Speaker 1: be put together. But when we warm up cold cases 677 00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,840 Speaker 1: like we did here, with a fresh set of eyes, 678 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,920 Speaker 1: with fresh motivation, as we saw from this prosecutor, it 679 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,880 Speaker 1: often leads to the determination of maybe even additional forensic 680 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,720 Speaker 1: evidence we didn't know we could obtain back then. Because 681 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,800 Speaker 1: while cases might not improve, forensics have and we've mentioned DNA. 682 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,680 Speaker 1: There are so many different ways that you can take 683 00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 1: these facts put them back together. This actually a case. 684 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,840 Speaker 1: This wasn't that old, thankfully and breathe new life into 685 00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,160 Speaker 1: it to be able to put the facts together as 686 00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,160 Speaker 1: has been done here to provide some justice of the 687 00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 1: victims family. I'm looking at the faces of these six 688 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:10,480 Speaker 1: pagan outlaws, and I guarantee you, I guarantee you, Wendy Patrick, 689 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:14,200 Speaker 1: one at least one of them doesn't want to go 690 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:19,080 Speaker 1: down for life without parole. And that's gonna be the crack, Wendy. 691 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,440 Speaker 1: You've got six people looking square in the camera at 692 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,400 Speaker 1: their mug shots, and if it were me, I would 693 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:29,920 Speaker 1: start with thirty five year old Tabitha Chapman. She looks weak. 694 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:34,000 Speaker 1: The other woman is the wife the paymaster that Chuck 695 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,920 Speaker 1: Roberts told me about that would make the twenty dollar 696 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:41,239 Speaker 1: at a clip deliveries. She ran the money side of 697 00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,959 Speaker 1: this drug ring. No, I would send her to jail 698 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,919 Speaker 1: for life without parole. But there's six to pick from. 699 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,720 Speaker 1: There's no no way I would let off the people 700 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:55,719 Speaker 1: key in her murder. But if somebody would crack, you 701 00:46:55,840 --> 00:47:00,279 Speaker 1: only need one, You just need one, and all right, 702 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,000 Speaker 1: Wendy one witness. You're right and your analysis is right 703 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,640 Speaker 1: on the money too. You gotta look at each one individually, 704 00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,319 Speaker 1: their level of culpability, how likely it is they'll cooperate 705 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:13,600 Speaker 1: with you, and what they can give you evidence wise. 706 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,319 Speaker 1: You know, there's no sense flipping somebody that doesn't have 707 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,080 Speaker 1: evidence powerful enough to help you make your case. All 708 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,200 Speaker 1: you do is you're giving somebody a lighter sentence, but 709 00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,560 Speaker 1: you're not getting anything in return. That's the dance the 710 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,360 Speaker 1: prosecutor is going to have to do with each of 711 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:30,560 Speaker 1: these defense attorneys is how can they strategize a result 712 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,080 Speaker 1: that's a win win as much as can be expected 713 00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,520 Speaker 1: under the circumstance. I would not take a cheap play 714 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:40,160 Speaker 1: on this bunch. The husband would definitely go down for 715 00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:44,080 Speaker 1: life without parole. Sadly, there's no death penalty in New Jersey. 716 00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,479 Speaker 1: That was abolished by the governor. And I guess two 717 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,839 Speaker 1: thousand seven, so I guess you can just kill as 718 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:51,880 Speaker 1: many people as you want to in New Jersey and 719 00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,360 Speaker 1: you don't have to worry about the electric chair or 720 00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:58,120 Speaker 1: the needle. I am waiting for justice to unfold. And 721 00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,839 Speaker 1: this is another thing I learned Wendy, which she may 722 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,640 Speaker 1: have experienced too. You know, when I first started prosecuting, 723 00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,680 Speaker 1: I thought, I'm gonna get the bad guy. I'm gonna 724 00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,839 Speaker 1: put him in jail. I'm going to fix this. This 725 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:16,000 Speaker 1: is really fairly soon after my fiancee's murder, and somehow 726 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,400 Speaker 1: by fixing other people's problems, it kind of helped me 727 00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,520 Speaker 1: fix mine. But it was really just a band aid 728 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,400 Speaker 1: because every time I would get a conviction and a 729 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:31,600 Speaker 1: jury would conn turn around, nobody was happy. Wendy, this 730 00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:36,000 Speaker 1: daughter is not going to be happy even if Kaufman 731 00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:40,560 Speaker 1: is convicted. She doesn't have her mother, Wendy. Yeah, you know, 732 00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,920 Speaker 1: there's a measure of closure that comes with with conviction 733 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,680 Speaker 1: and with even with the rest, because she's been she's 734 00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,280 Speaker 1: known for years that he was guilty. Is her story, 735 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,640 Speaker 1: but it doesn't bring him back. And you know, her 736 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,560 Speaker 1: emotional words are touching their you know, they really are. 737 00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,680 Speaker 1: Hearts break with her as she recounts how she's been 738 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:03,000 Speaker 1: waiting for years. But at the very least she has 739 00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,279 Speaker 1: the knowledge and the comfort of knowing that he didn't 740 00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:09,000 Speaker 1: get away with it. And Nancy, that is part of 741 00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:13,080 Speaker 1: the healing process is knowing. As I said earlier, Justice delayed, 742 00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,080 Speaker 1: has not been justice denied for her doesn't bring her 743 00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:18,960 Speaker 1: mom back, but does give her the comfort that her 744 00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,040 Speaker 1: stepfather didn't get away with it. He may have been 745 00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,319 Speaker 1: very comfortable in his practice, made a lot of money. 746 00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,919 Speaker 1: He's certainly not comfortable now in a jail cell. Tell 747 00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:33,640 Speaker 1: tell it, sister. Here's the thing. Another thing it does 748 00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:40,120 Speaker 1: a prosecution is it makes you know you're not alone, 749 00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:45,920 Speaker 1: that somebody cared enough to fight for you, to do 750 00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:51,040 Speaker 1: the right thing, to not give up. And in those 751 00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:59,719 Speaker 1: moments of despair, loneliness, grief, bereavement, that is the consolation 752 00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:05,319 Speaker 1: that somebody else cares enough to fight. I want you 753 00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:09,719 Speaker 1: to hear Kim back, her daughter. Have a lot of 754 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:13,520 Speaker 1: mixed emotions inside. But I am going to the police, work, 755 00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:18,640 Speaker 1: to the prosecutor's office, UM and allow them to do 756 00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,799 Speaker 1: what they need to do without really speaking too much 757 00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:26,680 Speaker 1: or giving my opinion or interjecting, UM how I really feel. UM. 758 00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,160 Speaker 1: I just want them to do whatever it is in 759 00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,160 Speaker 1: their capacity that they need to do to get this 760 00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:34,400 Speaker 1: murder soft so that I can get my life UM 761 00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,040 Speaker 1: back and move on with my life and look up 762 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,440 Speaker 1: to my mom and just say, Mom, I did everything 763 00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:42,840 Speaker 1: I could for you, um, but now it's time for 764 00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:46,600 Speaker 1: me to figure out what's next for my life. Nancy 765 00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,719 Speaker 1: Grace cried, stories sliding off, good Bye, frid