1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:02,760 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm George Ori and welcome to the new I 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast, a m paranormal podcast network. 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: Like us on Facebook, Tell your friends and share us 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: with everyone. This is an exciting new network that will 5 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: feature podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, and the unexplained. Now 6 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: please sit back and enjoy Dark Becomes Light with Heidi Hollis. 7 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware of the thoughts 8 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: and opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and 9 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: opinions only and do not reflect those of I Heart Media, 10 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, Coast to Coast AM, employees of premier networks, 11 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: or their sponsors and associates. We would like to encourage 12 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: you to do your own research and discover the subject 13 00:00:49,840 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: matter for yourself. You are listening to Dark Become Light 14 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: with me, Heidi Hollis from Hi Heart Radio co he um, 15 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: you're a normal podcast network bloggomes in my show. Remember 16 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: each week this is the place you go to when 17 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: you want to learn the latest and mysterious encounters, polly encounters, 18 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 1: cryptozoological encounters, and if you or someone you know has 19 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: experienced anything out of the ordinary and you want to share, 20 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: you want to learn, or you want to comment, or 21 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: you want to ask anything, go to my main website, 22 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: which is Heidi Hollie dot com or shadow folks dot com. 23 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: Tell me your story has given as much detail as 24 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: you would like because of more details are better. And 25 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: I mean, we open up the floodgates for anything and 26 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: everything out of ordinary because it's important to paint a 27 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: picture of what is going on and what is possible 28 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: in this world. I mean, how else are we going 29 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: to learn about this stuff unless we break down these stories. 30 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: And I mean, if you got photos, I get a 31 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: lot of people say how do I submit photos or drawings? 32 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: Just write me at Heidi Hollis at gmail dot com. 33 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: How about that or through that website as well, and 34 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: just you know, I'll take it up. I'll take it, 35 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 1: We'll look at it. And you know what, you guys, 36 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: you are in for a treat today because I have 37 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: one of the world's top researchers on the shroud of Turin, 38 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 1: that is the burial cloth of Jesus Christ. There's an 39 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: image of a man who was obviously crucified and it's 40 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: been studied for a very long time, but then it 41 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 1: got tested for the time period from which this cloth 42 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: came from. And it was shown to be that this 43 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: was actually dated not during Jesus time, and people like, 44 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: it's a fake, it's a fraud. No, no, no, If 45 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: you've kept up with what occurred after that conclusion, it 46 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: was shown that it was tested from a repaired section 47 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: of the shroud. How did they come to that conclusion? Wow, 48 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: Joseph Marino knows because he and his wife are responsible 49 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: for that conclusion. So you guys, you've got to hear 50 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: this story because it's amazing. The story on the Shrouded 51 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: Turn is not over. It is absolutely unexplainable what occurred here, 52 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: how this image of a man was impressed upon this cloth. 53 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: Much more testing and much more work needs to be done. 54 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: And Joseph Marino, he's going to tell you all about 55 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: it and his story because it's something you've never heard before. 56 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: And I know you're going to enjoy him. He's really 57 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: really insightful and wow, mind blowing stuff. But to be 58 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: in with you, guys, I got a couple of your emails, 59 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: Yes I do. I am going to read these things 60 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: off here, and I grabbed them randomly. I wanted to 61 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,119 Speaker 1: be short, so I look for short ones and uh, totally. 62 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: I never read these things beforehand. I really try not to, 63 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 1: um and and just dive in so you get the 64 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 1: raw me when I'm checking these things out, and you 65 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: just never know what we got. I just love it, 66 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: all right. Okay, So this first email says, dear Heidi, 67 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: I see every evening black orbs and shadow lines in 68 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: my room. M. I don't know what they are or 69 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: what they want. Harry, Hey there, Harry, how's it going. 70 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: That's interesting. I don't get many people talking about the 71 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: black orbs. UM. I personally had an encounter that wasn't 72 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: very pleasant myself. And being that shadow beings are connected 73 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: to aliens um and vice versa. I mean, it's it's 74 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: hard to exactly say what these things are, but I 75 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 1: can tell you what they have done to myself. UM, 76 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: and I've heard from others too. UM. They seem very 77 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: alien because they are perfectly round, right, and they can 78 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 1: form rose. Uh, they can operate together or solo, right 79 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 1: and uh, but they're black. I haven't seen them personally 80 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: shape shift or anything like that. But I'll just tell 81 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: you what happened. Okay. I know I spoke of it 82 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 1: here on the program, but I think it was a 83 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 1: while ago. Um So this one night, I was sleeping 84 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: on my couch, okay, I was watching television. Um My 85 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: college roommate was in the next room that kind of 86 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 1: opened up to the living room right there, right, So 87 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 1: I'm sleeping and I hear my friends scream. I'm like, 88 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:59,239 Speaker 1: what you know? And I wake up and I am 89 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: floating up towards the ceiling and there was this big, 90 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 1: big black like crack in the ceiling. It's so weird. 91 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: It was like an interdimensional looking thing, right, And I 92 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: was like, whoa, you know, and I wiggle free and boom, 93 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: I am dropped from the ceiling onto its foot on. 94 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: It wasn't comfortable, okay, boom onto the foot on. And 95 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: I literally scurried and I'm crouched and I'm looking up 96 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: at the ceiling and all in the room, all in 97 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: the room, the living room, and you know, the TV 98 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: is on, and it's like lighting up these black orbs okay, 99 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: and I get chills. And they were just like floating 100 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: in the middle of the room. And then they all 101 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: floated up to the ceiling right and and like lined 102 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 1: up like perfect little rowse and and the crack closed 103 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: and and these these black orbs started to fade away 104 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: right and and my friend and I were both crouched 105 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: out on the on the ground and we're like, oh 106 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: my gosh, oh my gosh. I could still say that 107 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: I could still see them, and and we didn't want 108 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: to reach up to turn like the light on, to 109 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: you know, get a better look. We're just like too 110 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: scared to raise up because they were some of them 111 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: were still gathering up onto the ceiling, and um, it was. 112 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: It was weird. It took a while for them to 113 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: like saddle and fade, but we could still see this outline, 114 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: like a kind of transparent outline of them, and we 115 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: finally just you know, we as they faded more, we 116 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: got the nerve to flick the light on and was like, 117 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: what in the heck? It seemed like they were transporting me, um, 118 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: creating a interdimensional crack of some kind, like pulling time 119 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: apart and creating this rift to yank me through. It 120 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: was really odd and it had a negative vibe to it, 121 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: very much like shadow beings would, but also mechanical um 122 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: spying even so um to say exactly what they are, 123 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: I've heard of glowing orbs that would take people by 124 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: surprise because they would be like, I don't know what 125 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: this is about, flying parallel to the ground, going at 126 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: a very fast speed, or being like these little orby 127 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: things that kind of hanging the night sky and have 128 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: a look at people and people feel like they are 129 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: probe like you know, they're too small to actually house 130 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: a entity in there. But I mean we have drones, right, 131 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: we have drones where we can use a camera to 132 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: spy and stuff, so you know, maybe these things are 133 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: kind of like that. But they also seem to have 134 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: this ability to open up doorways. Okay. Um. Also when 135 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: you think of the orbs, the ghost orbs that that 136 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,719 Speaker 1: people show, it's it shows up in a lot of 137 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: a lot of photos. They have been known to spin 138 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: and to open up portals as well. Okay Um, there's 139 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: great imagery out there are photos of these things doing that, 140 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: Like they get together and they pull energy together, and 141 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: they they're able to do things that gives you the 142 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: hebe jeebies from head to toe. Yes it does. Um, 143 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: So I hope that's helpful for you, Harry. I mean, 144 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: I'm not psychic or guru, but um, you know, there 145 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: there seems to be that there's a pulling together of 146 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: energy with these things. So personally, I would bless my 147 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: space because um, alien or not. If you don't want 148 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: them there in your home, then they shouldn't be there, 149 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: you know, clear the air. Um all right, So I 150 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: want to get to this next one. I don't want 151 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 1: to run out of time because there's another short one, 152 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: all right, And this one comes to us from Robert. 153 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: It goes hih idi. I know I've lived past lives. 154 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: Was wondering if my one true perfect love partner from 155 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: my past might be again walking this earth and searching 156 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: for me. Hmm, that's cool. That's a nice, warm, fuzzy thought. 157 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 1: I like that. Also. I believe animals pets also come 158 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: back into physical form, but I hear stories of people 159 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: who come across over to heaven and meet their long 160 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: lost pets. How long do people and pets stay in 161 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: heaven before they once again take earthly forms. Well, that's 162 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: a good question. I like that one, Robert, all right, Um, 163 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: you know, I'll tell you. It's like I personally am again. 164 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: I'm not a psychic, but I've had people come on 165 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: this program and I wish I could remember names better 166 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: than I do. But there was a researcher that came 167 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: on who was an expert in reincarnation, and uh, he said, 168 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: in Asian countries and other countries, who um believe in 169 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: reincarnation like outright, like I'll see you soon, you'll be back. 170 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: You know, the proven cases of reincarnation were it was 171 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: just a few months, like like six months. I think 172 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: it was the average or something like that of people 173 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: past loved ones coming back into human form. Isn't that something? 174 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: But Western cultures, you know, us people who have these 175 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: thick skulls who don't like to believe in such things 176 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: as reincarnation. It's years sometimes decades. Is that something? So 177 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: because we think that we should wait for others on 178 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: the other side that that was literally said by this researcher, 179 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: that we believe that, well, i'll see you on the 180 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: other side. It's like, well, shooting, I gotta sit here 181 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: and wait for you to come so we could have 182 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: a conversation when I could have been reborn already and 183 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: been your's been your baby or something. And it's interesting 184 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: how they interchange and switch it up like that, you know. Um, 185 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: you know, one time your your brother and sister, another 186 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: time your your cousins. You know, it's it's really really 187 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: interesting the patterns and stuff. So, um, I think it's 188 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: fascinating that you know that you've lived past lives. A 189 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: lot of people question, you know, the validity of that, 190 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: or if you're saying that, you would say something like that. 191 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: But um, it was taught before in the Bible. I 192 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: mean it's there. I've spoke to you a monk not 193 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: too long ago who said, well, yeah, that's that's true. 194 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: You know, Um John the Baptists was Elijah reborn. It's 195 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: mentioned right there, and it used to be taught in 196 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:20,079 Speaker 1: the church. Well kum bay yah, that's awesome. I'm glad 197 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: to know that. But for some reason, Western cultures just 198 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: don't address those things as much as they once did. 199 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: But we are greater than we are allowed or led 200 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: to believe. You guys, I don't know why that is, 201 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: but never questioned the human potential. And and also know 202 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 1: that God made us the way he did for a reason. 203 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: We're not perfect, We're flawed. We're meant to fall down 204 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: and get back up, come back again and recycle. It happens. 205 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: But I think that there's something that's capturing souls and 206 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: that is hello, hat man, that is stopping the natural 207 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: progression of our days and times. And you know what 208 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: has time is coming to an end. He likes to 209 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: call himself Satan's well, he's gonna play that role and 210 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: get thrown in the dungeon and kept there. All right, 211 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,439 Speaker 1: you guys, you guys, stick around because we've got a 212 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 1: fabulous show coming up here with Joe Marino. You are 213 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: listening to Dark That Comes Like with me Hetty Hollis, 214 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast. They am paranormal 215 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: podcast network. We'll be right back, welcome back. You are 216 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: listening to Dark Becomes Light with me Idy Hollis on 217 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast. They am 218 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: paranormal podcast network. As promised, I have a fabulous guest, 219 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: Joseph Marino, who has a b a. In theological studies 220 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: and as a long time synchonologist who is one who 221 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: studies the Shroud of Turran. He has research, written, and 222 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: lectured extensively on the shrouds to nineteen seventy seven. He 223 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: became ordained to priesthood in nineteen becoming a benedicting monk 224 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: as a result of his interests in the shroud. In 225 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: Marino received a call from m. Sue Benford, who informed 226 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: him on her spiritual insights about the shroud. After many 227 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: discussions by phone and emails about the shroud and other 228 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: spiritual matters, he began to experience God in a whole 229 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: new way. He felt powerfully drawn to leave the monastery 230 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: to pursue shroud research and other spiritual paths with Benford. 231 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: Marino believes that if the shroud can be shown to 232 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: be the burial cloth of Jesus, it would be an 233 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: interesting archaeological object. However, he believes that it's more important 234 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: for the spiritual message it can bring most definitely, So 235 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: I am excited to introduce my guests, Joseph Marino. How 236 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: are you doing today there? Joe, good honey, how are 237 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: you doing fabulous? I am always trying to follow and 238 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: keep on top of the latest research when it comes 239 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: to the Shroud of Turin, and it's an honor, honestly 240 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: to be talking to one of the leading researchers on this. 241 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: And uh, but your background is so diverse, I mean, 242 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: you want to tell us a little bit about how 243 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: you became the person you are as you are currently, 244 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: because it's it's quite the story. Well, I um I 245 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: grew up in St. Louis, Missouri, and um I was 246 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: born and raised a Catholic. I was the youngest of five, 247 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: and um I was very into UH sports, both playing officiating, 248 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: following professional teams in St. Louis, that sort of thing, 249 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: and kind of thought at some point, I, you know, 250 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: they they always kind of recommend do something that you likes, 251 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: that you don't have to work a day in your life. 252 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: I'll do something. And in sports, probably UH wasn't quite 253 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: good enough to be you professional athletes, so you know, 254 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: you start thinking about being a writer, broadcaster, that sort 255 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: of thing, and you know, so I, you know, did 256 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: a did a broadcasting class at UH in college and 257 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But it's it's not as easy 258 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: as it looks, you know. But yeah, and I was 259 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: into into music a lot, just I don't didn't play anything. 260 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: My my dad was a musician, but but he didn't 261 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: leave many me any genes to to learn how to 262 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: play an instrument. Um So, you know, I like the 263 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: Beatles and the Moody Blues, and I still do to 264 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: this day. There's still my my two go to bands. 265 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: And um I saw out of after high school Um, 266 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: I went to college for two years. Um, after two years, 267 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: you know, you have to start declaring a major and 268 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. And I still wasn't sure what 269 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: I wanted to do. Um. I had kind of become, 270 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: you know, an agnostic like many people in those days, 271 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 1: in the seventies, and I guess that still happens today. 272 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: Of course. So I got a job with the federal government, um, 273 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 1: working full time for the the Veterans Administration, and UM, 274 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: things seem to be going okay. I played to continue 275 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 1: to play basketball after high school and that thing in 276 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: men's league and whatnot. And um, I was kind of 277 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: sick of academics after my second year of college, and 278 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: so I took like a three year break from reading 279 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: anything academic and I pretty much only read the sports 280 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: page in the comics. Yeah, and after about three years 281 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 1: of that, it's like, oh, you better start getting on 282 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: the ball. You're in your mid dumb in my mid twenties. 283 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: You know, I got to get get going here, you know, 284 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: so around having so many different varied interest music, sports, 285 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden year digging into this 286 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:07,679 Speaker 1: uh theological life. I mean, how did that come about? Well, 287 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 1: I I thought you know, I can remember so clearly. 288 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: Um in V two, the the National Collegiate Championship basketball championship, 289 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: was in St. Louis that year. Um, I just watched 290 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: it on TV and I thought, isn't this great? And 291 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: then it It's like I heard this void, almost exterior 292 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: voice say to me, but it was really me saying 293 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 1: to myself, isn't there more to life than basketball? But 294 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: I still didn't do anything with that for about three 295 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: or three or four more years after that, and finally 296 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: I thought, you know, I you know, I've thrown off 297 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 1: my my Catholic background, but I thought, you know, there's 298 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: got to be something, until you know, in religion or 299 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 1: philosophy that can give me more meaning to life. So 300 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: I started with a clean slate and just arted reading 301 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: anything about philosophy and religion, even non Christian religions. And um, 302 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: I remember in seventy seven, finally, about five years after 303 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: I graduated from high school, and when I'd go to 304 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: a bookstore, I'd always go to the philosophy religion section, 305 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: and I saw a book with a kind of an 306 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: odd face on the cover, and it said, is this 307 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: the face of Jesus Christ? Um? And it was a 308 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: book about the shot of Turn, which I had never 309 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: heard of, even though I had gone to Catholic school. 310 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: I mean, we learned about Veronica's Vale, which is really 311 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: a legend. It's not in the Bible, but supposedly some 312 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,919 Speaker 1: lady named Veronica had I had a cloth, and she 313 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: met Jesus on his road to go golf and and 314 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: pressed the linen to his face, and it supposedly she 315 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: got an image. And you know, long story shot on that. 316 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: That's probably a story that was invented to explain that 317 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: there was a linen cloth with an image on it. Now, 318 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: the story, both the book and the story of Vernica 319 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 1: only deal with the face, but the shroud of Turin 320 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: actually has a full front and back image. You know, 321 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: he's about six ft tall, so you see the full 322 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 1: front image and you see the full back image because 323 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: the cloth is like fourteen ft long, so the body 324 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: was presumably laid on, you know, one half of it, 325 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 1: and then the other longer part of the cloth is 326 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: big enough to fold over so that it covers fully 327 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: the front and the back. So I took that book 328 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: home that night and read it in one sitting. And 329 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: I want to tell you I was just fascinated. Um, 330 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: there wasn't a lot of evidence back then. I mean 331 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: it was the cloth was fairly well known in Europe, 332 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: but not really not in the United State eights. I mean, 333 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: there were only a couple books available in the United States, 334 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 1: a few articles here and there. Um. But based on 335 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: the evidence back then, and that was only about a 336 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: year year and a half before the a group of 337 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 1: American scientists called Stirrup actually went over to tour and 338 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 1: studied it for five days. And after that is when 339 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: we got the big explosion of information that we we 340 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: still deal with today. But based on the scant evidence, 341 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: what relatively scant um at the time, I thought the 342 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: cloth that had a good chance of of being authentic. So, um, 343 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 1: you know, I looked at the bibliography and started, uh 344 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 1: you know, looking for articles and more books and and things, 345 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 1: and started keeping a collection. And um, you know, I 346 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: started out with about seven articles and I thought, wow, 347 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: look at this collection I'm getting It was virtually nothing. Today, 348 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 1: I probably we do have one of the top one 349 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 1: or two personal English language collection of shraud materials in 350 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: the world. So my whole basement is practically a shroud museum. 351 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: Absolutely divinely guided. It sounds like I mean, just like 352 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: this was not popular in the United States and and 353 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: it inspired you, like down to the core. That's it 354 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: just totally changed my life. UM, it actually helped. UM. 355 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 1: It was a vehicle for me to actually come back, 356 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: at least temporarily to my my Catholic roots. And within 357 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: about three years I joined a monastery UM in St. Louis, 358 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: where I managed to survive for eighteen and a half years. UM, 359 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 1: that's amazing eighteen and a half years. But I don't 360 00:22:55,119 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 1: regret it because what happened was UM in I received 361 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: a call from a woman from Ohio and UM. She 362 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 1: said that she claimed that she was having these UM 363 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: interactions with Jesus and stuff. And I'm open to that. 364 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: I mean, you gotta be careful. You can't. I mean, 365 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: you can't accept at face value when people say those things. 366 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: You gotta investigate it on a case by case basis. 367 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: And she sounded normal, she didn't sound crazy, and UM, 368 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: so we started talking on the phone. She said she 369 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: had survived childhood cancer and UM, she was a weightlifter 370 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: and UM, but we we know we had We talked 371 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: on the phone about spiritual things in the Shroud and 372 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 1: we kind of just you know, made it a connection 373 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: on the phone, and um, she was. She said she 374 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: had seen a program on the Shroud on TV and 375 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: she wanted to learn more. And UM, you know, we 376 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: we continued to talk and she actually sent me a 377 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,199 Speaker 1: picture from an article that was written about her in 378 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: her hometown of Columbus. She had she was running two 379 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: businesses out of her home, she had two young kids. 380 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: Um her her husband had left her a couple of 381 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: years before that. And um, so she sent me, um 382 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: an article that had a color picture of her in it. 383 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 1: And you know, I had no idea what she looked like, 384 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: how old she was. But we, you know, we just 385 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: had a good kind of spiritual connection after that. And 386 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: when when she sent me the article, I opened it 387 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 1: and I can remember my exact words, which were, oh, 388 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 1: because here was this too much to my surprise. Here 389 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: was this young looking, vivacious woman of which did not 390 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: match to myke. You know, she said she had survived cancer, 391 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: she was a power lifter, and that picture of of 392 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: her just did not match that at all. Another life 393 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: changing moment. We gotta get to our next break, Joe. 394 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: We're gonna be right back to finish this. This is amazing. 395 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 1: All right, you guys, don't forget to go to Heidi 396 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,199 Speaker 1: Hollis dot com or shadow Folks dot com. Tell me 397 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 1: your stories, tell me what's on your mind out there, 398 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 1: and tell me what you thoughts are about the strout 399 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: of tourist. As we continue our conversation with Joseph Marino, 400 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 1: all right, you are listening to Dark Becomes Light with me, 401 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: Heidi Hollis. I heard radio and coach Coach damn paranormal 402 00:25:45,200 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: cat stick around. Okay, right back, welcome back. You are 403 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: listening to Dark Becomes Light with me, Heidi Hollis on 404 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast. They am 405 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: para normal podcast network. I have a Joe Marino and 406 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: he is telling us all about his really inspiring journey 407 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: going from a sports loving music playing I'm sorry enthusiasts, 408 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: you wish that you could play yeah, but you didn't 409 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: inherit that. And then you came across, uh, this mother 410 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 1: of two, single mother of two who has this fascination 411 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: with a shrouded tour and as yourself, which is a 412 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: Sue Bamford, and uh, you're you're impressed by her photo 413 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: and you you were in trouble. Huh yeah, yeah, yeah, 414 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: Oh just came out and it's like, oh, I wasn't 415 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: expecting this. And uh you know when you make uh 416 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 1: a connection on one level with a person and then 417 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 1: you add another you know, big level like that. Um, 418 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: you know you kind of know off the bath that 419 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: things could cook, you know. Yeah, well, how do you 420 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:18,880 Speaker 1: say benedictine benedictine monkey. Yes, that's um, that that's that's 421 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: you know, surprising. I mean I think it surprises a 422 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 1: lot of people. But you know, from more recent research 423 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: myself and looking into uh various topics, I've found that 424 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot of former nuns and priests who you know, 425 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,239 Speaker 1: start another life you know, as one phase of their 426 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: life and they move on to another. Um. So how 427 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: did things uh progress between the two of you? Well, um, 428 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: she um actually asked if she could come out and 429 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: visit me, and um, you know she did. We and 430 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: we eventually even met with my my personal spiritual director, 431 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: who was a Diocisan priest. Um and I still, uh 432 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: when I go back to St. Louis usually every Christmas, 433 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 1: I get together with him and um he was impressed 434 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: by her too. But you know, he was advising me 435 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: to be cautious, and I think I was. And Sue 436 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 1: came out several times, and and you know, it wasn't 437 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 1: It wasn't very long before I thought, you know, and 438 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: she we were connecting really a lot on the shroud 439 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: level in terms of wanting to do research and stuff, 440 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: and we had ideas for research and whatnot. And uh 441 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: so she came out several times, and you know, even 442 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: by say, by the second time, I was I already 443 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: began to think that, you know, I could be in 444 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: for a life change. Um, and just weird things started happening. 445 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: Some people call him God wink, some people call him synchronicities. 446 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: But I want to tell you I just for almost 447 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: every day for about a year, strange things would would 448 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: happened that seemed to me, seemed to be drawing us 449 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: closer together. And um, eventually, I just my heart and conscience, 450 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: even though it it surprised me as much as anybody else, 451 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: my heart and conscience began to tell me that I 452 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: actually needed to to leave the monastery and and and 453 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: be with her. And that's when I ended up having happening. 454 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: And I never regretted it. I mean, it was tough. Um. 455 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: You know, I had expected to be in that monastery 456 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: for the rest of my life and everything. But and 457 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: I remember the when I was when I kind of 458 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: reached the stage where I knew that I needed to 459 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: do that. I want to see my spiritual director by myself, 460 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: father Tom, and I said, you know, he he was 461 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: kind of word of of it, and I was really 462 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: kind of hoping he'd come up with a reason that 463 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 1: I shouldn't do it, because I was kind of apprehensive 464 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: about taking that step. And UM, so eventually I knew 465 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: I had to do it, and I've never regretted it. 466 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I eventually I lost Sue to cancer in 467 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: two thousand nine, and but we ended up doing really 468 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: really significant SHROUD work that we would have never been 469 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: able to have been to have accomplished at least stayed 470 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: apart honestly. I mean, you and Sue did research that 471 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: saved Shroud research UM to continue to this day. I mean, 472 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: I wish that my show was longer sometimes that we 473 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:56,479 Speaker 1: could dive into all the details. But tell us about 474 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: you know how that came about, because so you've you've 475 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: are so well published and you're so well researched. UM. 476 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: When it comes to the Strate of Urran and yourself 477 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: and Sue quite the team you uh it tell us 478 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 1: about some of the articles that you put out and 479 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: and how you helped turn a lot of heads and 480 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: minds about you know, where the research should go. Okay, Um, 481 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 1: well that's stir team that I mentioned in They studied 482 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: the shroud for five days around the clock. And um, 483 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: their main mission had been to try to figure out 484 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: how the image got on the cloth. And uh, they 485 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: had the best science and technology available at the time. 486 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: They had guys from NASA and Los Almost National Laboratory, 487 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: Sandy A National Laboratories. I mean these guys and there 488 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: were a few women on the team. I don't want 489 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: to give them short shrift, but um, you know a 490 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: lot of the scientists on the team built bombs and 491 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: put help put men into space. So and these these 492 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,479 Speaker 1: were bright guys, you know. But they couldn't figure out 493 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: how the image got on the shroud. So the evidence 494 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: seemed to be pointing that it was unnatural um event 495 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: of some kind, and it had all the wounds. The 496 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: man on the shroud has all the wounds that that 497 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: the gospels described as having happened to Jesus. So there's 498 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: that big Jesus connection. And Stir concluded that it was 499 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: not the product of an artist. Okay, they didn't they 500 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: didn't know how it got on the cloth. So from 501 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: seventy eight eight, you know, the world was above buzz 502 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: with the idea that the shroud was probably authentic. And 503 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: then the Church allowed a carbon fourteen dating radio carbon dating, 504 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: and that's a whole story in itself. I wrote an 505 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: eight page book on how things got screwed up with 506 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: the test, and I put additional entries after the book 507 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: was published, and those are available online on my on 508 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: my academia page. There's just tons of information that things 509 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: were just royally screwed up. Um. But the bottom line 510 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: was that the three labs said that the shroud data 511 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: to twelve sixt tht D, which means obviously that would 512 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: be too late to have been Jesus cloth. And by 513 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: that time I had been studying the shroud eleven years 514 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: and I just I just sort of knew that something 515 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: had to be wrong with that C fourteen tests, and 516 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: I wasn't sure at that time. So once I got 517 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: together with Sue Um at one point UM I came 518 00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: out into Ohio. And so about another of ten years 519 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: passed after the Sea fourteen and during that period everybody 520 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: was saying, oh, you know, the shroud was a fake 521 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,800 Speaker 1: and this and that, and I guess it was around 522 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: two thousand year two thousand Sue got one of her 523 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: kind of spiritual insights and was told that the that 524 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 1: the area where they took the Sea fourteen sample from 525 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,800 Speaker 1: was a repair. So since I had such a great collection, 526 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 1: she had me get out some of the better pictures 527 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 1: of that corner and we started looking at it and stuff, 528 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: and we thought we could see some um ab neuralities 529 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 1: uh in that area in different kind of the weevil 530 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: would look different in places and stuff like that. So 531 00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: we took some high quality um photos and she she 532 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 1: literally took the photos to a tailor downtown in downtown Columbus. 533 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: He was a French a European trained UM taylor and 534 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: she showed him the picture and didn't did not tell 535 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: him that it was from the shroud, And she says, 536 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: what can you tell me about this photo? And basically 537 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: he said, UM, well, it looks like there's been some 538 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,839 Speaker 1: manipulation in the area. And we said, ah, that that 539 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: sounds interesting. So then she sent the same photos to 540 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: a couple of world renowned linen Um companies, one in 541 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: in Um, Ireland and one in Albany, New York. And 542 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: again we did we didn't tell them that it that it, 543 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: that it was the shroud, so they were blinded to it. 544 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: And each each of those two also independently said in 545 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 1: you know, different its that basically that there was a 546 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: repair of some kind. So we had three independent uh 547 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: textile experts who were blinded to the fact that it 548 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: was the shroud, all who have said UM that they 549 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: thought they were repairs in the area. So there was 550 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 1: gonna be a big UM international conference in or Vito, 551 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: Italy in August of two thousands. And before we had 552 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: that had idea about that, we hadn't UM planned to attend. 553 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 1: But once we got that idea, we said, you know, 554 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: we got to go to this conference and present the paper. 555 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,919 Speaker 1: So we did and UM, you know, several people told 556 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: us that it was really the hit of the conference. 557 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,359 Speaker 1: And Barry Schwartz, who was the documenting photographers first start 558 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: UM and as the editor and publisher of the biggest 559 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: and best shroud side, which is shroud dot com. If 560 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 1: you if your listeners go there. They better bring some 561 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: food and snacks and drinks because they you could spend 562 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 1: the rest of your life there. Um. So Barry put 563 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 1: it up there and um. One of the guys on 564 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 1: the Start team whose name was Ray Rogers. He was 565 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 1: the chemist, the head of the chemist chemistry aspect of 566 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: the testing for STIR. He had kind of gotten out 567 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: of Shroud research. He had accepted the dating results and um, 568 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: but he kept up with Barry site. And when he 569 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 1: saw the paper on Barry side, he kinda he called 570 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 1: Barry up and and read him the Riot Act. Why 571 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: are you publishing this nonsense? These people are part of 572 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: the lunatic fringe. I can prove them, prove them wrong 573 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 1: in five minutes and as well well, right the do 574 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: what you need to do, because it was so fascinating 575 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: that he was literally he had samples from from the 576 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,840 Speaker 1: main part of the cloth. Okay, we gotta hold it 577 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:11,760 Speaker 1: right there because I gotta get to our next break. 578 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,719 Speaker 1: You guys, you are listening to Dark Becomes Light with me, 579 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 1: Heidi Hollis on the I Heart Radio and Coast to 580 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 1: Coast a m para normal podcast network. Stick around, so 581 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 1: we'll be right back before Joe Marino, welcome back. You 582 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 1: are listening to Dark Becomes Light with me Heidi Hollis 583 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,360 Speaker 1: on the iHeart Radio and Coast to Coast, a am 584 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: para normal podcast network. I have Joe Marino here who 585 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 1: is sharing about honestly probably one of the greatest finds 586 00:38:53,680 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: in shadow Terrence h history and not allowing the death 587 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,439 Speaker 1: to stand. And I wanted to continue where you left 588 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 1: off there, Ye, the kind that's death. Fascinating how this 589 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 1: came to be? Yeah, so um so. Ray Rogers thought 590 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,239 Speaker 1: that he could prove our theory wrong because he had 591 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 1: samples from the main part of the cloth from and 592 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 1: he had been given another point some samples that were 593 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: right next to the C fourteen sample area, so he 594 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 1: could compare the two and if they were exactly the same, 595 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,319 Speaker 1: that would show that there was no repair. So he 596 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:42,720 Speaker 1: got out his microscope and Barry said he he called. 597 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: He called Barry back about an hour and a half 598 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 1: after he said it would take him five minutes, and 599 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 1: he says, I can't believe it. I think they're right. 600 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,319 Speaker 1: He looked at both samples and he found that the 601 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 1: the area in the C four team corner was chemically 602 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: different the the main part of the shroud, and then 603 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,479 Speaker 1: later on he was actually given a leftover sample from 604 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,359 Speaker 1: the actual sea for teen piece and that they had 605 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: the same and they had the same characteristics as the 606 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 1: you know area next to it, which he had previously had, 607 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,760 Speaker 1: so they were different. And then he found he found 608 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 1: like a die and he found a splice linen and 609 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,840 Speaker 1: cotton thread, which means that cotton was used to repair 610 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,319 Speaker 1: that area and they used dye to to make the 611 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 1: color look exactly like the original. So then that kind 612 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,479 Speaker 1: of makes sense because a big chunk had been big 613 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,280 Speaker 1: portion of that corner had been taken out for relics. 614 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: And if you know, if you have a piece of 615 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: linen and you have a big piece of it taken out, 616 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:55,880 Speaker 1: if you don't repair it or restore it, it unravels. 617 00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: So it makes sense that at least some repair work 618 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 1: was done on it to to tidy up the corners 619 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,360 Speaker 1: and where that where it was cut. And Ray rogers 620 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:12,839 Speaker 1: Um wrote a peri viewed scientific article in a high 621 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:18,279 Speaker 1: end chemical journal called Thermo Chemical Actor in January two 622 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:23,440 Speaker 1: thousand five, and Um he said that them that that 623 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:28,400 Speaker 1: sample in the C fourteen area was different, and he 624 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,319 Speaker 1: gave some other details that we don't have time to 625 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: go into now, but basically he said that the C. 626 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,840 Speaker 1: Fourteen sample was not valid for for being able to 627 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,839 Speaker 1: determine the dating of this shrouds. So, in other words, 628 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 1: that twelve six cannot be accepted because there was apparently, 629 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:57,600 Speaker 1: um it was a mixture of first century cloth and uh, 630 00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: sixteenth century cloth. So that kind of jump started research 631 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:09,280 Speaker 1: to a degree back uh into the more research again. 632 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 1: I mean people hadn't stopped completely, but that it really 633 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,439 Speaker 1: did give it a boost, and and you know, it's 634 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,040 Speaker 1: been full steam ahead. And since then there's been statistical 635 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:23,799 Speaker 1: studies that show that the what the labs did with 636 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,800 Speaker 1: the data was a little um, shall we say, manipulative. 637 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,719 Speaker 1: They didn't they didn't use all the dates, they threw 638 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:35,080 Speaker 1: out the bad dates, and when they constructed their statistics 639 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:42,640 Speaker 1: to come up with a twelve sixty with supposedly confidence. Right, 640 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:49,799 Speaker 1: So that's that's wild. I mean, all because Sue, your 641 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,839 Speaker 1: wife had a vision and and that kind of gets 642 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 1: skipped over. Do you find uh in the research? You know, 643 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,120 Speaker 1: like you two having brought the attention to have a 644 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,040 Speaker 1: look at that, you know what you what you discovered 645 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,920 Speaker 1: and uh, but they like the nuts and bolts, they 646 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 1: don't like spiritual insight. But God still talks everybody and 647 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,920 Speaker 1: this is still around and it's like that is Uh, 648 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:21,040 Speaker 1: it's so amazing. And I've seen a couple of shows 649 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 1: that has you and Sue speaking of your discovery and 650 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,279 Speaker 1: getting the credit that you deserve, but not getting the 651 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 1: opportunity to speak to uh it having come from a vision, right, Yeah, 652 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:38,719 Speaker 1: people have do have problems with that. Um, you know, 653 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 1: it's just it's just one of those things of human 654 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:46,319 Speaker 1: nature that some things make us uncomfortable. And you know 655 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:51,600 Speaker 1: people that supposedly get spiritual insights or yeah, are one 656 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,399 Speaker 1: of them. And so yeah, people pretty just pretty much 657 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,880 Speaker 1: ignore that. It's amazing you having the background that you 658 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 1: that you do as a as among and and being 659 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:06,279 Speaker 1: open to that. I mean, that's that's inspiring right there. 660 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,239 Speaker 1: Because I'm a firm believer that you know, we all 661 00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,400 Speaker 1: get guidance and you know, it's whether we pay attention 662 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,400 Speaker 1: to it or not. And because she did and you 663 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 1: both having the know how and understanding of the shatter trend, 664 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:23,160 Speaker 1: that this was something important to pursue. And I mean 665 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,000 Speaker 1: do you find though too that I have that uh, 666 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 1: you know, it's still having to prove to people that 667 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 1: the carbon dating was was wrong. I mean, do you 668 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:39,960 Speaker 1: feel like cover that up? Patch that up? Yeah. Um 669 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,439 Speaker 1: there's tons of still tons of YouTube videos and all 670 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,080 Speaker 1: sorts of things where people do not want to have 671 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:50,600 Speaker 1: an authentic shroud because, um, the repercuctions of that are 672 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:56,480 Speaker 1: scary for them, especially if they're agnostic or or atheists. Um, 673 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,759 Speaker 1: So they do everything in their power to try to 674 00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:04,120 Speaker 1: disprove it. And nobody has been able to come up 675 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,680 Speaker 1: with a reasonable explanation of of how that image got 676 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,400 Speaker 1: on the class So they just and they give a 677 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,240 Speaker 1: lot of half truths and falsehoods and continue to try 678 00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:19,960 Speaker 1: to um say it's nonsense. That's a shame because it 679 00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:25,279 Speaker 1: is a common uh discussion honestly, And I'm just like, 680 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:31,600 Speaker 1: I don't understand, uh, you know, the erasing um Christ 681 00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,640 Speaker 1: having been such a huge marker on the history of 682 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,040 Speaker 1: this planet is is absolutely in motion all the time. 683 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,359 Speaker 1: I mean, it's BC is no longer before Christ, It's 684 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,840 Speaker 1: before the common Era, you know, it's BC. You know, 685 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,560 Speaker 1: you know, it's like, why do that? And one of 686 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,480 Speaker 1: my favorite arguments I would love to tell my friends 687 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,520 Speaker 1: who you know, don't believe Jesus is it was a 688 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:55,640 Speaker 1: big deal. I'm like, oh, what's the what's the year again? 689 00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:00,120 Speaker 1: You know, we we marked our calendars our years to 690 00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:04,080 Speaker 1: the day of him having passed because he wasn't is 691 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:08,560 Speaker 1: a big deal. Yeah, And you'll probably have noticed, like 692 00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:14,360 Speaker 1: I have that it's amazing how how many videos and 693 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,680 Speaker 1: articles and and different sites try to put forth the 694 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:22,600 Speaker 1: idea that Jesus never even existed. I mean they did, 695 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,759 Speaker 1: that's how far they take it, um, you know, and 696 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,800 Speaker 1: that's kind of silly because I mean, he's he's probably 697 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 1: the best attested ancient figure in history, but because of 698 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:42,040 Speaker 1: the religious connections, people try to um totally erase him 699 00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,680 Speaker 1: from history and say he never existed. But you know, 700 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:50,520 Speaker 1: the main obviously those are kind of people not in 701 00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,600 Speaker 1: the main I guess there's a few in the mainstream, 702 00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:56,360 Speaker 1: but um yeah, it's just it's just the world we 703 00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,959 Speaker 1: live in today that people don't want to a real 704 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,759 Speaker 1: Shroud and they don't want to real Jesus either. It's just, uh, 705 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,120 Speaker 1: it's a it's a shame, but first first name out 706 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:07,880 Speaker 1: of their mouths when they're in trouble though, you know, 707 00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:14,160 Speaker 1: like that's you know, where is the Where is the 708 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,640 Speaker 1: research going now? I mean you're always updating is something 709 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:19,319 Speaker 1: I think I got to notice on my phone just 710 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:23,360 Speaker 1: now Joe Marino updated something on Academia dot du. I 711 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:27,080 Speaker 1: mean you are constantly working your constantly, uh you know, 712 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:32,319 Speaker 1: pulling in new facts and figures. Where are things going now? Yeah, 713 00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:36,239 Speaker 1: that's a good question. I mean people are obviously, um 714 00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:40,560 Speaker 1: wondering if if any new testing will be allowed, whether 715 00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,560 Speaker 1: there will be another C four teen test or I 716 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:49,399 Speaker 1: kind of doubt if they'll ever be another C fourteen test, um, 717 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:53,680 Speaker 1: partly because we don't you know, we haven't worked out 718 00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:57,640 Speaker 1: all the bugs on the old on that system, on 719 00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:03,040 Speaker 1: the fourteen testing already, and then there's new new dating 720 00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,040 Speaker 1: methods out and those need a lot of work too. 721 00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:12,799 Speaker 1: But I've heard that even though Pope Francis has uh 722 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:18,040 Speaker 1: background in chemistry, um, my sources tell me that there 723 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,400 Speaker 1: will be no new testing as long as he's Pope. 724 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,760 Speaker 1: But you know, he's I think he's what eighties six 725 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,600 Speaker 1: or something now, and uh, you know, I don't know 726 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:33,080 Speaker 1: how much longer he'll be around, but um, perhaps the 727 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,960 Speaker 1: next the next Pope will allow testing. But you know, 728 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,640 Speaker 1: one of the amazing things about the in my e 729 00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:45,960 Speaker 1: book is the fact that uh Cardinal Ratzinger, who became 730 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:51,520 Speaker 1: Pope Benedict sixteen, he actually had allowed, he had approved 731 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,560 Speaker 1: rather uh Stirrup to have two weeks with the Shroud, 732 00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:59,680 Speaker 1: including a C fourteen test, and a lot of the 733 00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:03,640 Speaker 1: politics and backstabbings and agenda's got in the way and 734 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:09,600 Speaker 1: Stirp was eliminated from not only doing their new test 735 00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:14,279 Speaker 1: of multi disciplinary aspects, but they weren't even allowed to 736 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:18,120 Speaker 1: be involved in the C fourteen test, which was part 737 00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,839 Speaker 1: of the reason there was a fiasco there. That's a shame. Well, Joe, 738 00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,040 Speaker 1: we've got to wrap it up. How how can people 739 00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:27,040 Speaker 1: get ahold of your books, your works? What's your website? 740 00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:33,120 Speaker 1: My website is homestead dot com slash new Vista's all right, Well, 741 00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:34,839 Speaker 1: I want to thank you so much for coming on 742 00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:39,200 Speaker 1: the program today. This was really insightful, inspiring. I enjoyed it. 743 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,799 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me for sure. Now be sure to 744 00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,160 Speaker 1: go to Amazon dot com and look for Joseph G. 745 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:48,680 Speaker 1: Marino for his twenty twenty updated new version of his 746 00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,919 Speaker 1: book and his other book. All Right, you guys, don't 747 00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,560 Speaker 1: forget to go to Heidi Hollis dot com or Shadow 748 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,719 Speaker 1: folks dot com. Tell me your stories, tell me what's 749 00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,400 Speaker 1: going on out there in the world. Tell me your thought, 750 00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:05,120 Speaker 1: your questions, your experiences. I don't care. Throw it my 751 00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,680 Speaker 1: way and we will take a look at it and 752 00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:09,920 Speaker 1: dissect it. Because every other show, what do we do. 753 00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,560 Speaker 1: We take your emails and your phone calls if you 754 00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:16,839 Speaker 1: care to jump on an interview. I'm just joking you guys, 755 00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,920 Speaker 1: never ever do that, so you're welcome. Be sure to 756 00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,000 Speaker 1: follow me on social media at one Heidi Hollis. That 757 00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:29,080 Speaker 1: is Twitter, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, everything but YouTube, which is 758 00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,759 Speaker 1: just Heidi Hollis. All right, and be sure to go 759 00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,239 Speaker 1: to the Outlanders Comic dot com for my paranormal comic strip. 760 00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,360 Speaker 1: We have come to the bottom of another fabulous program. 761 00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:41,080 Speaker 1: You have been listening to Dark Becomes Light with me 762 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:45,160 Speaker 1: Heidi Hollis on my Heart Radio and Coast to Coast Hey, um, 763 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,480 Speaker 1: Paranormal Podcast Network. We'll see you next time. Thank thank 764 00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:59,440 Speaker 1: for everybody. Good Bye. Well. If you like this edition 765 00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,480 Speaker 1: of Dark Becomes Light, wait til you hear the next one. 766 00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,320 Speaker 1: You've been listening to the I Heart Radio and Coast 767 00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:11,000 Speaker 1: Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. M