Speaker 1: What's that at the Bed's spooky?
Speaker 2: Hey, Joky, I'm really sure it's dead.
Speaker 1: It's coming this way. Wait a minute, I said, I
Speaker 1: das pease.
Speaker 3: Hey boo, it's me Ros And welcome to Ghosted by
Speaker 3: Raz Hernandez, the podcast where I talk to people that
Speaker 3: I like about the paranormal. I have been talking to
Speaker 3: people lately that I like, but I did not know
Speaker 3: them before. Uh, because you know, we're trying we're trying
Speaker 3: out different things in this new year, and uh, I'm
Speaker 3: talking to someone that made a documentary about a very
Speaker 3: famous alien abduction, the Pascagoula Abduction, which is a.
Speaker 1: Fun word to say.
Speaker 2: The time that we had the host of That's Messed Up,
Speaker 2: Kara Klank and Lisa Trager, when the two of them
Speaker 2: were on the show a little while back, we talked
Speaker 2: about this case, but not nearly as in depth as
Speaker 2: we do on today's episode, because we have on this filmmaker.
Speaker 2: He's got a new four part series called Pascagoula seventy three,
Speaker 2: and he really really researched this one, and I think
Speaker 2: it's a compelling story. I also realized, I don't think
Speaker 2: we've ever had a UFO alien person quite like this
Speaker 2: on the show. But this is definitely a UAU episode,
Speaker 2: And you know, I'm very curious what you think of this,
Speaker 2: and with me doing what we're doing, which is sometimes
Speaker 2: not having silly people. And when I have people on
Speaker 2: like this, I save the dolls, I save the the EVPs.
Speaker 2: We don't do that with our expert type guests. But
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoy this conversation today. Let me just
Speaker 2: tell you a story I read in my email. This
Speaker 2: one comes from Melissa, who writes the subject line, my
Speaker 2: dead grandmother ruined the surprise of my engagement.
Speaker 1: And then in parentheses, happily.
Speaker 2: Melissa writes, one night in September twenty fourteen, I had
Speaker 2: a wonderful visit with my maternal grandmother while I was asleep.
Speaker 2: When these types of dreams happened, the majority of the
Speaker 2: time are surround a completely white There might be a
Speaker 2: cowch or a table, but that's it and we don't
Speaker 2: have to talk. It's absolutely the most peaceful, joyful, stress
Speaker 2: free place I could ever imagine. During this visit, she
Speaker 2: was sitting on a love seat with pretty green decorations
Speaker 2: in her hair, her favorite color. She was smiling from
Speaker 2: ear to ear and gave me the tightest hug of congratulations. Well,
Speaker 2: the next day, Sunday, I had taken off from work
Speaker 2: and my boyfriend and I made plans to drive out
Speaker 2: to mon Talk, which is on the east end of
Speaker 2: Long Island. Aside from the rich snobs you sometimes run into,
Speaker 2: it's my favorite place on Earth, built with beach memories
Speaker 2: that started in my childhood. While we were making the
Speaker 2: two hour drive out there, I knew he was going
Speaker 2: to propose to me on the beach, and yes, that's
Speaker 2: what happened. I was looking out at the water and
Speaker 2: the waves, and I turned around and he was on
Speaker 2: one knee. I happily said yes, but didn't tell him
Speaker 2: about the dream for quite some time because I didn't
Speaker 2: want the moment to be ruined for him. I was
Speaker 2: so happy, not only for the obvious reason, but because
Speaker 2: it was such clear confirmation that my grandmother is with me,
Speaker 2: which I feel often. I hope that everybody out there
Speaker 2: realizes that they have some type of guardian angel and
Speaker 2: or spirit guides. My grandmother passed away of breast cancer
Speaker 2: when I was only seven, but we always had a
Speaker 2: special connection both before and after her passing. AH now
Speaker 2: thank you for sending that, Granny. We love the congratulations,
Speaker 2: but wait, wait until the night after. Don't jump the gun, Grannie.
Speaker 1: Now I think it's adorable. That's so sweet. Thanks for
Speaker 1: sending that.
Speaker 2: Okay, here we go. We're gonna talk about an alien abduction.
Speaker 2: Here's my conversation with filmmaker Darcy Weir and with the show.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: I am joined by a documentary filmmaker who has a
Speaker 2: new film called Pascagoula seventy three.
Speaker 1: Darcy, We're hey, Ross, Hi from Canada.
Speaker 4: From Canada.
Speaker 1: You're pretty nice, and that's what they say.
Speaker 4: Thanks, not all of us, but I try to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I haven't. I have not met those people yet,
Speaker 1: but I assume you know there's assholes everywhere.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 1: But we're here to talk about UFOs. Let's do it.
Speaker 1: You're not a ufologist.
Speaker 4: I don't consider myself a ufologist. I consider myself an
Speaker 4: independent filmmaker and you know, documentarian I interviewed upologists.
Speaker 2: Ah okay, yeah, is that is that like a like
Speaker 2: a it's not a degree someone can have a ufologist.
Speaker 4: I think there's people within uphology that are trying to
Speaker 4: push degrees right now, Oh really, Yeah, there's a guy
Speaker 4: named Danny Shean that has like the new Paradigm Research
Speaker 4: Institute and he sells courses for like ten thousand of pop.
Speaker 1: Oh maybe this is the business I should get into.
Speaker 1: Maybe what are you going to teach uphology?
Speaker 4: You I don't know.
Speaker 1: I like ufo ology, ufo oology. I like, oh, yeah
Speaker 1: that's true ufo. No, I say, borrow the first Oh
Speaker 1: you ufo wait ufo ufology.
Speaker 4: Yeah you got it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that as good because it's one of those things
Speaker 2: like biopic or biopic.
Speaker 1: It's biopic.
Speaker 4: People say biopics, people say biosity. It sounds like a
Speaker 4: medical procedure.
Speaker 1: It sounds like an eye thing for sure. But okay,
Speaker 1: so this film, yeah, would you consider it a film
Speaker 1: or is it a docu series series?
Speaker 4: Four episodes and we just cover a different thing each episode, but.
Speaker 1: All based in this one case. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's like Jerry Springer doc that just
Speaker 4: came out two episodes.
Speaker 1: Loved it.
Speaker 4: I wish it was longer than two.
Speaker 5: Episodes me to So this one's four Yeah, that's one
Speaker 5: hour each, pretty much great amount perfect. Some of these
Speaker 5: it's like just stop toney, this is a ten minute story.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think this story merits four episodes because there
Speaker 4: was like a lot to unpack and I never thought
Speaker 4: I was going to go into it and make four episodes.
Speaker 4: I thought, okay, I just do this in an hour
Speaker 4: and a half, make it a feature link doc. But
Speaker 4: I flew over to England, believe it or not, to
Speaker 4: speak to this ufologist, Philip Mantel, who's, like you know,
Speaker 4: been researching cases in Europe and abroad. He's based out
Speaker 4: of northern England for over decades I think now, and
Speaker 4: so essentially I sat down with him. He unpacked everything,
Speaker 4: and once I started editing and pulling archival data and
Speaker 4: all that stuff, I was like, okay, I can do
Speaker 4: this in four episodes.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, that's what I love so much because I
Speaker 2: saw the first episode and it's it's so great to
Speaker 2: see all of the media, to see just the interviews,
Speaker 2: the news star is, the audio, the documents, just having
Speaker 2: it all there, and I imagine that there is a
Speaker 2: lot over the years. This story we have talked about
Speaker 2: on this podcast before really and actually it's one of
Speaker 2: my favorite of the abduction cases. I love it for
Speaker 2: a very specific reason because, by far the hottest, sexiest
Speaker 2: abductee of all time, the younger one. What's his name
Speaker 2: is Parker how Ben Part that's exactly in nineteen seventy three,
Speaker 2: who I would have abducted to.
Speaker 4: Well, you know what, he's flattered from the grave.
Speaker 1: I'd say, he is so hot.
Speaker 2: And I because we had a couple of comedians and
Speaker 2: sometimes I'll do my little research about these cases and
Speaker 2: we couldn't get we couldn't get it, like, we couldn't
Speaker 2: get past how hot he album. And you know what's
Speaker 2: even hotter about him? He kind of disappeared after and
Speaker 2: didn't really want to like give interviews, is my understanding
Speaker 2: of that.
Speaker 4: Right, he became the Mississippi abductee man of mystery, which makes.
Speaker 1: Him even hotter.
Speaker 4: There you go.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but you're already hot. You don't have to
Speaker 2: have the most interesting story in the room.
Speaker 4: He knew that.
Speaker 1: He said, I'm just gonna go be hot somewhere else.
Speaker 4: There you go. He was afraid of being too hot
Speaker 4: in public.
Speaker 1: And you have the story about getting taken up into
Speaker 1: it ufo. Please.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there was some sexy stuff going on
Speaker 4: up there.
Speaker 1: No, I mean his story.
Speaker 4: I didn't know that much about when I was looking
Speaker 4: into this, like obviously, the first episode is all about
Speaker 4: Charlie Hickson, who's the elder man that he was with,
Speaker 4: forty two years old at the time Calvin was nineteen.
Speaker 4: They were family friends because essentially Charlie's best friend was
Speaker 4: cal Dad, and Calvin was looking for work. He said,
Speaker 4: you know, can I get a job at the shipyard
Speaker 4: in Mississippi on the river past Googlea River. So Calvin
Speaker 4: moved in with Charlie Hickson at an apartment there. Shortly
Speaker 4: there after, like the first week he moved into this place,
Speaker 4: he gets hired, and I think one of the funny
Speaker 4: things that Calvin remarked was that he was hired, abducted,
Speaker 4: and fired within the same day.
Speaker 1: What a day. What a day, and became a heart throb.
Speaker 4: And became an international heart throb.
Speaker 2: I guess, well, he's also, by the way, a nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy three, nineteen year old, which is like a thirty
Speaker 2: five year old.
Speaker 1: Man, like he's a grown man.
Speaker 2: But that's what instantly, when I watched the first episode,
Speaker 2: I was so grateful for because not that I've delved
Speaker 2: too deep into this case, but like I didn't know
Speaker 2: any I didn't know their relationship. I just knew that
Speaker 2: they both worked together. But that's really it's really fascinating
Speaker 2: that they were living together.
Speaker 4: And there's some weird stuff that I unpacked. I mean,
Speaker 4: I don't think I included in the documentary. But apparently
Speaker 4: after they got abducted, they went back to the apartment
Speaker 4: that they were staying in and Calvin like showered himself
Speaker 4: in bleach because he was so frightened by the experience
Speaker 4: and like thought that he was, you know, getting something
Speaker 4: off of him. That's pretty bad.
Speaker 1: Hey, give us so give us the details. So for
Speaker 1: anyone that doesn't know, So these two guys, they go fishing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, at night.
Speaker 1: Didn't seem like the cutest place to go fishing, by
Speaker 1: the way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was kind of like a garbage dump by
Speaker 4: the river.
Speaker 2: Is that where they planned on eating those fish? Don't know,
Speaker 2: because that might be your first problem.
Speaker 4: I think it was maybe let's have some beers, chat
Speaker 4: and get lucky catching something on the river, you know, maybe,
Speaker 4: I don't know. Shortly after they started chatting and you know,
Speaker 4: getting everything set up and casting their real they apparently
Speaker 4: saw a blue light in the distance and then suddenly
Speaker 4: it was behind them and they thought it was the
Speaker 4: police because this area they were not actually supposed to
Speaker 4: be in, they were trespassing. So when they turned around,
Speaker 4: to their astonishment, it was apparently a craft and these
Speaker 4: three beings that they couldn't quite see at first, came
Speaker 4: floating down grabbed them. They apparently felt like a pinch
Speaker 4: or some kind of like instant pain when they were grabbed,
Speaker 4: but then that went away, and they were relaxed, and
Speaker 4: they were taken on board this craft and they had
Speaker 4: their experience. They were taken away and kind of examined,
Speaker 4: so to speak. And this is kind of like a
Speaker 4: common thread in the abduction tales of ufology totally.
Speaker 2: They also said that these beings they weren't your run
Speaker 2: at the mill gray aliens either. They were something a
Speaker 2: little different. It's so weird, but I know of a
Speaker 2: lot of abduction cases, and I especially love it when
Speaker 2: it's a different type, because it makes sense that there
Speaker 2: would be more than one species of these, you know, beings,
Speaker 2: and so when you hear about these, it's way more outrageous,
Speaker 2: and I think it's probably harder for people to wrap
Speaker 2: their heads around.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I'm like, makes sense to me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's a standout case because the creatures
Speaker 4: or beings that took them on board the craft were
Speaker 4: not yeah like gray aliens, which are described as like
Speaker 4: these short, spin lee built, large headed, big black eyed
Speaker 4: like small, slit mouth, no nosed like automatons that have
Speaker 4: no real emotion. And other abductees reported that, actually there's
Speaker 4: an interesting study. Have you ever heard of doctor edgar Mitchell,
Speaker 4: the sixth man on them Apollo fourteen.
Speaker 1: Astronaut, No tell me about him?
Speaker 4: So doctor edgar Mitchell was a very intelligent guy. They
Speaker 4: called them the Brain in Houston where he worked for
Speaker 4: Capcom for a number of years in the prior Apollo
Speaker 4: missions and assisting with the Gemini missions and stuff with
Speaker 4: our exploits in space. Going to the moon and Pollo
Speaker 4: fourteen was his turn. He actually got to go land
Speaker 4: on the Moon and walk around do a moonwalk. He
Speaker 4: came back for that mission and he had something that
Speaker 4: astronauts do when they're in space is stick to checklists,
Speaker 4: like they're so busy and following protocol that they don't
Speaker 4: really have a ton of time to kind of marvel
Speaker 4: at where they are until things slow down a bit.
Speaker 4: And NASA on like ground control. They're constantly keeping them
Speaker 4: doing a routine so they don't mess up, screw up
Speaker 4: the mission gets lost in space.
Speaker 1: Notice the aliens that are right next to them.
Speaker 4: You notice the alien craft following them, which is something
Speaker 4: people have alluded to. Some astronauts have said it might
Speaker 4: have happened like a Paulo eleven buzz Aldron reported something
Speaker 4: like that. Flip flopped on the story over the years.
Speaker 4: But on the way back from landing on the moon
Speaker 4: Edgar Mitchell had this epiphany moment. He said that heperience
Speaker 4: kind of like I guess, like a transcendent experience, and
Speaker 4: he felt like it was kind of spiritual but also psychic.
Speaker 4: He also did what is called remote viewing sort of
Speaker 4: exercise with some friends that were on Earth and practiced
Speaker 4: a psychic modality to see if they could guess a
Speaker 4: picture he was holding on the Apollo spacecraft. Like he
Speaker 4: had time to do kind of random experiments. He got
Speaker 4: back from that and he started up the Noetics Institute,
Speaker 4: which studied these kind of you know, wild out there
Speaker 4: theories about psychic phenomenon, extrasensory perception, how we're all connected,
Speaker 4: and stuff like that. He also started up the Edgar
Speaker 4: Mitchell Research Foundation, and they published a study called the
Speaker 4: Free Study. I think it's the Foundation for Research on
Speaker 4: Extratras and Extraordinary Claims, and that compiled over three thousand
Speaker 4: contact ye experiences, so people that had abductions or experienced
Speaker 4: non human intelligence of various kinds. And the gray that
Speaker 4: we talked about before comes up often in past Goula
Speaker 4: seventy three, I'm landing the plane here. These things were
Speaker 4: not grays. They had gray complexion, but it was more
Speaker 4: like this elephant wrinkly skin. They had these like metal
Speaker 4: spike protrusions coming out of their heads, no eyes, no mouth,
Speaker 4: and they kind of had a like fused leg sort
Speaker 4: of podium thing that wasn't separate legs, and they were flying.
Speaker 1: They sound cool.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it sound like robots, and I think Calvin Parker
Speaker 4: and Charlie Hickson both echoed that that's what they thought
Speaker 4: they were because they were very like robotic in nature.
Speaker 4: The two men had very different experiences because one one
Speaker 4: into a room on the right that would have been
Speaker 4: Charlie Hickson. He said that he was kind of suspended
Speaker 4: in the air and he had this like orb come
Speaker 4: out of the wall and examined his body that was
Speaker 4: kind of like an eye. And then Calvin went to
Speaker 4: the left. He was in a bigger room with a table,
Speaker 4: like an invisible table that he was laid on, and
Speaker 4: he discussed many years later when he started becoming more
Speaker 4: comfortable with talking about the experience being physically poked and prodded.
Speaker 4: So he had like blood taken from him. He had
Speaker 4: some other liquid put into him, apparently, and there was
Speaker 4: a reasonably hot alien woman that was kind of orchestrating
Speaker 4: this whole thing.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Wait wait, you didn't know about that.
Speaker 1: The hot, I don't remember that part.
Speaker 2: So she.
Speaker 1: She was not like a robot lady. She was more
Speaker 1: like a human.
Speaker 4: So those spiky had automaton things were one of them
Speaker 4: at least was present in the room kind of, he said,
Speaker 4: was like shut down, and this woman was like hovering
Speaker 4: over him and kind of like conducting stuff. And apparently
Speaker 4: she was not very chesty but had a pretty face.
Speaker 4: And he recalled, you know, if I had a couple
Speaker 4: of beers in me, I'm out of taken her out
Speaker 4: on a date. Stop, I'm serious.
Speaker 1: That dirty dog.
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, but was it freaky deeky? Did they
Speaker 2: give because you know that's a common one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know for experiencers there is sometimes sex on
Speaker 4: the craft. Somewhere in that thousand non human intelligence experiences
Speaker 4: that Edgar Mitchell's Foundation compiled, I'm sure there's some sexy time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's been a few where they're like, she
Speaker 2: was so hot, It's like, what is she? Are you
Speaker 2: just trying to make it sound like you exotic?
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I think is kind of reported that
Speaker 4: the women were considered exotic.
Speaker 1: So neither of them reported anything of that nature.
Speaker 4: No, he just thought the female looking one was mildly
Speaker 4: attractive and he would have had a beer with her.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: But when you say poked and prodded, like, where are
Speaker 2: we talking about, because you know that's another part of
Speaker 2: the story that you hear with these things. Yeah, there's
Speaker 2: a lot of butt going.
Speaker 1: On in a lot of these stories. Not this one though.
Speaker 4: So the second episode of the series, we cover Calvin's
Speaker 4: experience from his perspective and we have a hip session
Speaker 4: where which is actually the last hypnosis session that was recorded.
Speaker 4: I think Philip mantled the man in the UK. He
Speaker 4: had it remotely done by a lady named Chanel, and
Speaker 4: the third episode is a new person named Maria Blair.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I didn't know about this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I didn't either write like I was learning
Speaker 4: about this on the fly. But Maria Blair came forward,
Speaker 4: I think in the past five to six years, because
Speaker 4: she went to meet up with Calvin at like a
Speaker 4: memorial spot that they set up on the side of
Speaker 4: the Pasca Goula River in Mississippi, and she was there
Speaker 4: with her husband and she wanted to meet him and say,
Speaker 4: you know, we saw the lights across the river that
Speaker 4: night on the dock that you guys were in that area.
Speaker 4: We think we saw you being abducted because my husband
Speaker 4: and I or like she apparently said she pulled up
Speaker 4: the car he was getting on. He was hired by
Speaker 4: a captain to go on a fishing trip or whatever
Speaker 4: and you know, work that because I guess commercial fishing
Speaker 4: is a thing there and maybe in the seventies. And
Speaker 4: while they were waiting, they saw the lights and she
Speaker 4: they had like some kind of missing time experience and
Speaker 4: then she got put under hypnosis, and so we have
Speaker 4: that hypnosis session of what she recalled that night, and
Speaker 4: she said she was taken aboard the craft and they
Speaker 4: took her reproductive material that took her eggs. Oh my god, yeah,
Speaker 4: for real, this is what she says.
Speaker 1: Wow, what about her husband?
Speaker 4: She says that her husband might have been on board
Speaker 4: the craft, but he like she claims that he kind
Speaker 4: of set her up in a way, like he knew
Speaker 4: that they were taking they wanted to take her, and
Speaker 4: he made a deal with the aliens to take her
Speaker 4: or something like that.
Speaker 2: What for realon she stayed with him, she loved it's love.
Speaker 2: He made a deal with aliens. You can have my
Speaker 2: wife if you let me free and you let me
Speaker 2: have a beer with the one lady.
Speaker 4: This is what they say. Wow, No, that's Calvin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but maybe this guy saw that lady and said
Speaker 1: the same thing.
Speaker 4: I have no idea, can't speak for him.
Speaker 2: Wait a second, Okay, this story, this story is also
Speaker 2: This is something that I've said before, and I'm sure
Speaker 2: in some way whatever it could be considered problematic to
Speaker 2: say this. But I feel like if you have heterosexual men,
Speaker 2: like a working class just your average Joe that is
Speaker 2: saying that they saw a ghost or they were taken
Speaker 2: up into a UFI or whatever, it's a demographic that
Speaker 2: doesn't I want to appear super vulnerable or be called
Speaker 2: crazy or you know, make it seem they don't want that.
Speaker 2: So when they come forward, I'm kind of like I
Speaker 2: believe it a little bit more than anyone else.
Speaker 4: Well, I think the interesting story with Maria and Jerry
Speaker 4: is that apparently, like the real reason she found out
Speaker 4: that this had all happened, she had like these repressed
Speaker 4: memories and didn't really recall she saw the lights. She
Speaker 4: recalled that she didn't recall really getting abducted.
Speaker 1: Apparently not until the hypnosis.
Speaker 4: Something like that. And then Jerry was in the hospital,
Speaker 4: possibly dying, and we have that like deathbed confession video
Speaker 4: in the doc. She shared it with Philip, and he
Speaker 4: basically was saying, like I knew all along. I was
Speaker 4: abducted too, for like some time, and you know, I
Speaker 4: kept it from you, the truth, because I didn't want
Speaker 4: you to be living a life of panic or feel
Speaker 4: traumatized from the whole experience, so I just hit it,
Speaker 4: That's what he says.
Speaker 2: Were the two guys Calvin and what's his name Charlie
Speaker 2: Hickson Charlie and Calvin, were.
Speaker 1: They still alive when these people came forward?
Speaker 4: Calvin was Charlie had passed.
Speaker 1: Was he like, you kind of sets up then it
Speaker 1: really would have made me not look crazy.
Speaker 4: Well, Yeah, they appeared on local Mississippi news channel together
Speaker 4: and Calvin proclaimed he was very happy she came forward
Speaker 4: so that he wasn't like the only person remaining alive
Speaker 4: that was tied to that event.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's nice and helpful. But I would also
Speaker 2: be like, it's been a long time that people have
Speaker 2: just said that nobody else saw this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in a while, take take it and Calvin.
Speaker 2: So Charlie ended up going on to always kind of
Speaker 2: talk about it. Yeah, so he would give speeches and
Speaker 2: he was like, I don't care, I'm gonna let everyone
Speaker 2: know he was.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was out there talking, slanging the story. You know,
Speaker 4: he was at all the conferences, he was in multiple documentaries,
Speaker 4: TV interviews, news. You know. I think Calvin just had
Speaker 4: a hard time with it. Like there's a story that
Speaker 4: I think Charlie was trying constantly to get Calvin to
Speaker 4: come on the shows and stuff, and early on, I
Speaker 4: think it was like the second TV interview that they
Speaker 4: were invited to, the first one that they did. I
Speaker 4: met the guy who conducted, but I didn't include the
Speaker 4: video in the dock. Their backs are to the camera
Speaker 4: and they didn't really want to show their identities. But
Speaker 4: I think an actual TV in studio interview they were
Speaker 4: invited to, and Calvin been overheard the sound guy making
Speaker 4: fun of him on set and punched him out. Oh
Speaker 4: so he got kind of like taken off the set.
Speaker 4: And then after that Calvin just tried to stay out
Speaker 4: of the spotlight about it because he just wasn't comfortable.
Speaker 2: You know. That makes it even more real, because that's
Speaker 2: the thing. Somebody comes forward and says this thing. I
Speaker 2: believe we all should kind of be skeptical at first.
Speaker 2: But I mean they weren't necessarily looking for to sell
Speaker 2: a movie. They weren't like they were just.
Speaker 1: They sold books they got Okay.
Speaker 4: Charlie had actually Charlie had a book in like the eighties,
Speaker 4: and Calvin Parker's book was published by Philip Mantle, the
Speaker 4: guy that I interviewed. Oh right, yeah, but it was
Speaker 4: much later in life for Calvin, Like Calvin only came
Speaker 4: forward really in a big way in the two thousands. Okay, yeah, but.
Speaker 2: I mean he came forward initially and then went away
Speaker 2: and then came back in the two thousands.
Speaker 4: Yep. So he tried to hide, like every time he
Speaker 4: started a new job, he was being harassed by the
Speaker 4: media that found out he was in that area. And
Speaker 4: like the reason why he got fired from the shipyard
Speaker 4: the very first time was because the media showed up
Speaker 4: the next day after the encounter, because somebody at the
Speaker 4: police station leaked that it had happened to the press,
Speaker 4: and there were just so many people trying to find
Speaker 4: out about it. And the foreman just said, you know,
Speaker 4: I'll put you on like some temporary leave, Charlie, because
Speaker 4: you've been here for a while. But Calvin, sorry, you gotta.
Speaker 1: Go mm because he was the new guy, the new guy,
Speaker 1: and you.
Speaker 4: Know, just not worth the foreman's time to keep him
Speaker 4: around if there's always going to be press kind of
Speaker 4: interrupting their day lea business at the shipyards.
Speaker 2: So that's what's so weird when sometimes in my research
Speaker 2: I'll look back at past generations of newspapers and they'll
Speaker 2: be like Calvin, who lives at blah blah blah address,
Speaker 2: Like they'll like include that.
Speaker 1: Stuff real stories.
Speaker 2: That's kind of doxing today, right, yeah, doc, people get
Speaker 2: super doxing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not docking. That's something else.
Speaker 4: I hear about it on Twitter in the community probably
Speaker 4: about ten times a week, just because everybody's so paranoid
Speaker 4: that their identities will be fully like, their locations will
Speaker 4: be revealed. There's a lot of paranoia there.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of that.
Speaker 2: That's why I kind of put one pinky toe in
Speaker 2: the UFO world because this just a little just a
Speaker 2: little funky over there.
Speaker 4: Yeah it does.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was thinking when you were talking about like
Speaker 2: if that was a real like assuming that this is
Speaker 2: all real. I feel so bad for those two men
Speaker 2: that not only did they have the initial experience, but
Speaker 2: then it's like you can't go anywhere without people thinking
Speaker 2: you are insane. There's probably so few people that they
Speaker 2: could turn to that had ever experienced something similar. Who
Speaker 2: knows if those people would be telling the truth. It's
Speaker 2: just like it's nice that they had each other stigma.
Speaker 4: There's definitely stigma surrounding experiencers even today. You know people
Speaker 4: that have just seen an authentic UOFO. Something about that case,
Speaker 4: which is interesting. Share Fred Diamond, who's the guy that
Speaker 4: ran the station that initially interviewed them the night that
Speaker 4: they were abducted. Yes, he proclaimed that he to the
Speaker 4: newspaper that he saw the UFOs in question, like during
Speaker 4: that week and the same night that those men were
Speaker 4: supposedly taken, their phone at the police station was ringing
Speaker 4: off the hook. They had like over fifty calls on
Speaker 4: different residents of the area reporting UFOs in the sky.
Speaker 4: Okay so, and then in the docu series we cover
Speaker 4: multiple witnesses that you know, Philip had to go after
Speaker 4: these people. Some people back in the day showed up
Speaker 4: on like Walter Cronkite, other police officers and Larry Booth
Speaker 4: and other residents that actually saw an object that night.
Speaker 4: They spoke to the press back in the day, but
Speaker 4: other people had to be tracked down years later and
Speaker 4: Philip Mantle went after them and they finally said yes,
Speaker 4: like I saw the object you know, fly over my
Speaker 4: car that night and stuff like that. So elements like
Speaker 4: that make the case more authentic to me. And there
Speaker 4: was definitely a UFO flap going on, like a UFO
Speaker 4: that was intercepted by the coast Guard on the river.
Speaker 4: We have documents from that event, the coast Guard papers
Speaker 4: where they reported chasing this blue object that was in
Speaker 4: the water and they were poking it with like a
Speaker 4: stick and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: What.
Speaker 1: Yeah, at what point before after this would have been
Speaker 1: the same.
Speaker 4: I think it was I want to say the month after. Wow,
Speaker 4: So there was there was activity happening all around that
Speaker 4: area that fit the same sort of description of what
Speaker 4: those guys were seeing and other people the same night.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that the most compelling piece of evidence is
Speaker 2: the recording. Oh, the secret recording, the secret recording these
Speaker 2: two guys. It's kind of like what we call a
Speaker 2: hot Mike moment these days. It was when they first
Speaker 2: went to the police station, right, yeah, and the recorder
Speaker 2: was still running, but the two guys did not know that,
Speaker 2: and they are just authentically talking.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So Sheriffred Diamond and Glenn, the other police officer that
Speaker 4: was attending these guys, they were interviewing them, they planted
Speaker 4: a recorder in the room before the guys could know
Speaker 4: and started it and they asked like, you know, have
Speaker 4: you been on drugs tonight? Have you had anything to drink?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 4: No, no, sir, you know, nothing like that. And then
Speaker 4: they're like, okay, do you want like a drink coffee
Speaker 4: or something? No, no, no, And like they're pretty panicked
Speaker 4: in their voices those officers leave the room and then
Speaker 4: it's just the tw men pretty much rambling back and
Speaker 4: forth to each other in a panic state, you know.
Speaker 4: And if you had made this up, or if you
Speaker 4: watch like JSC psychology YouTube videos of like killers that
Speaker 4: are being interviewed and stuff like that, they're usually just
Speaker 4: silent when a police officer leaves the room, and these
Speaker 4: guys were traumatized continuing to discuss their experience.
Speaker 2: And you know, being you would think they would be like,
Speaker 2: should we lie, should we tell them about this thing,
Speaker 2: or should we make up? You know, I don't know,
Speaker 2: you would think there would be a little bit more yeah, something,
Speaker 2: especially because in the seventies it's not like it is today,
Speaker 2: where there's always something recording something everywhere. And like if
Speaker 2: I was in a police questioning room right now and
Speaker 2: they're like, we're not recording, I'd be like, yeah, someone's
Speaker 2: recording something in here.
Speaker 4: There's a camera in the corner of the room.
Speaker 1: There's got to be one somewhere something.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I don't know that to be very authentic.
Speaker 4: I think it's an interesting part of the story for sure.
Speaker 1: Would you say that you believe that, I mean, I believe.
Speaker 4: People that recall being taken beyond their will should be
Speaker 4: taken seriously.
Speaker 1: I think that.
Speaker 4: This case has elements of truth to it. Other experiencers
Speaker 4: like Betty and Barney Hill, Terry Lovelace is a military
Speaker 4: man that said this happened to him on an army
Speaker 4: a military base. There's elements of that in a recent
Speaker 4: you know, experiencer named Mario Woods, also a military man
Speaker 4: that recalled this, and you know, there's probably tons of
Speaker 4: data there. But yeah, Travis Walton is a really interesting
Speaker 4: case because years later the same area where the wooded
Speaker 4: area outside of Snowflake, Arizona, in the you know, mountain
Speaker 4: side where these men were logging, like cutting trees down
Speaker 4: and stuff, and four of them saw this object. There's
Speaker 4: still weird radiation that lingered in the area, made the
Speaker 4: trees grow in a regular way, like in in in
Speaker 4: a regular way. So I think there's something to abduction.
Speaker 4: And if you know, there's three thousand cases, for example,
Speaker 4: of these non human intelligence cases that were compiled by
Speaker 4: the Edgar Mitchell Institute, if just.
Speaker 1: One of those is real, that's crazy.
Speaker 4: We're not alone and we're not you know, the highest
Speaker 4: thing on the food chain in this existence.
Speaker 1: My one thing with like all of this stuff is
Speaker 1: are you a ghost person at all? Uh?
Speaker 4: Not really, I'm not really. I feel like ghosts are
Speaker 4: kind of like a religious thing. I'm more like a
Speaker 4: nuts and bolts person. But yeah, I mean, I mean
Speaker 4: even in the study that I was talking about, the
Speaker 4: Free Foundation for Research of Extraterrestrial and Extraordinary Claims that
Speaker 4: covers near death experience encounters as well, which goes into
Speaker 4: you know, is there something after we pass away? And
Speaker 4: that goes into ghosts? So right, right right, I'm open
Speaker 4: to it.
Speaker 2: When I research stories to talk about on this podcast,
Speaker 2: it's so often stories up until the two thousands, like
Speaker 2: stories of people that lived in this crazy haunted house
Speaker 2: where stuff happening on stuff, or alien abductees, Like I
Speaker 2: feel like you don't hear about them as much. And
Speaker 2: I wonder is it because people can fake things so
Speaker 2: easily now so none none of us would believe you anyway?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 1: Like? I just don't know, Do you have any idea?
Speaker 1: Do you have any thoughts on that I think.
Speaker 4: There are ghost cases? And like to me just to
Speaker 4: further explain that, unpack that what I think a ghost
Speaker 4: could be. It's just something we don't. I mean, a
Speaker 4: ghost is an old way of describing, old world way
Speaker 4: of describing, with religious connotations attached to it. Something that
Speaker 4: we can't perceive with our eyes and our brains regularly.
Speaker 4: It's something that's like here that exists that we're trying
Speaker 4: to explain with like old world terminology. So I think
Speaker 4: if somebody sees something after they pass away, or something
Speaker 4: is here existing in a like non physical way, but
Speaker 4: somehow comes into our view or I don't know, bumps
Speaker 4: into us, or is it heard over a recording, you know,
Speaker 4: like these what do you AVPs and stuff like that,
Speaker 4: I feel like that's just like a bleed through moment
Speaker 4: from another plane of existence that we don't regularly get
Speaker 4: to interact with. And I feel like science could maybe
Speaker 4: one day catch up to whatever that is and we
Speaker 4: can properly identify it with some kind of you know,
Speaker 4: better terminology. But I think there are videos I've seen
Speaker 4: some pretty interesting videos like that came from the two thousands,
Speaker 4: for example, of a famous all boys school in the UK,
Speaker 4: where the security cameras like literally show at night papers
Speaker 4: being thrown in the hallway and locker doors being slammed
Speaker 4: and like chair being thrown across the hallway and stuff,
Speaker 4: and it's like, what is that?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 4: That is that seems credible to me unless somebody at
Speaker 4: the school made the best invisible hoax video you could, right,
Speaker 4: No one's debunked that, right, So for me, that's some
Speaker 4: kind of entity that we can't see with our human perception,
Speaker 4: but the camera has picked up a moment that you
Speaker 4: know it existed in our realm.
Speaker 2: Because that's the thing with these abductees too. It's like,
Speaker 2: so you mean to tell me that two of the
Speaker 2: best improv actors ever were living in Pasca Goola and
Speaker 2: they were able to just commit to the bit and
Speaker 2: they decided to do that for however many decades, like
Speaker 2: come on, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 4: It's it seems to me like that's not really how
Speaker 4: it went down. I feel like something happened that night.
Speaker 4: And I mean, UFOs are real. We've got videos, pictures
Speaker 4: of all qualities and cases throughout the decades, and just
Speaker 4: thousands of people this time around the world who've experienced them,
Speaker 4: not just crazy Americans. And to think that somebody has
Speaker 4: been on board one and you know they've experienced the
Speaker 4: occupants who are maybe not human the other interesting thing
Speaker 4: you could relate to the Pasca Goula case is have
Speaker 4: you ever heard of like Michael p Masters No, W's
Speaker 4: that PhD professor at I want to say, Montana Tech,
Speaker 4: which is kind of like Montana's version of I don't know,
Speaker 4: like a really it's a good university, good technical uni.
Speaker 4: And he's an professor of anthropology there who's posed the idea.
Speaker 4: He actually wrote a paper recently with a Harvard professor
Speaker 4: that's called the x ray Tempestree model and Crypto dustrial theory.
Speaker 4: The idea with this is that people that are experiencing
Speaker 4: these UFOs and the occupants sometimes are possibly encountering a
Speaker 4: time machine, and the occupants might be related to us,
Speaker 4: but from the future. I like that.
Speaker 1: I think that's a fun way to look at it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean he gets into the weeds about like
Speaker 4: the Grays for example, and kind of says, well, you know,
Speaker 4: there's signs that we are evolving towards like that. If
Speaker 4: you know, the singularity happens and technology melds with our
Speaker 4: biology and we become you know, more obsessed with brain
Speaker 4: power and less obsessed with sex and the other carnal
Speaker 4: pleasures of being a man. Or a woman. You know,
Speaker 4: those things don't really Some people say that they don't
Speaker 4: have like sexual organs, they don't have toilets on board,
Speaker 4: they don't have like a kitchen.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 4: Interesting, So they're more like this forced evolution synthesized being
Speaker 4: that maybe we created to carry out scientific experiments in
Speaker 4: the past on board a time machine, which is like
Speaker 4: the UFO. That's where he kind of goes with it,
Speaker 4: or he kind of says, maybe we go as far
Speaker 4: as evolving ourselves that way, and the chin, you know,
Speaker 4: is getting really small and the head's getting bigger to
Speaker 4: house a more like efficient brain, and blah blah blah.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm totally butchering this theory right now. I'm
Speaker 4: dumbing it down. But he's looked at the Pasca Goula case,
Speaker 4: and he also looks at other reported contact tee cases
Speaker 4: where people say they actually did see human like beings
Speaker 4: or human beings that were on board the craft. And
Speaker 4: so Calvin talks about this woman. Right, there's other people
Speaker 4: that have talked about seeing a woman and a man.
Speaker 4: Travis Walton, for example, saw some like sexy blue jumpsuit
Speaker 4: woman and man on board his craft after he saw
Speaker 4: the more gray looking beings at the starting of his encounter,
Speaker 4: and he apparently got gassed and then lost sight of them.
Speaker 4: But Michael P. Master's theory on that is that maybe
Speaker 4: that is us from the future coming back in a
Speaker 4: time machine, and other encounters are further down the evolutionary path,
Speaker 4: you know, maybe thousands of years, where they're coming back
Speaker 4: and observing us on the timeline, taking a specimen, you know,
Speaker 4: taking a bit of material, messing around with us, examining further,
Speaker 4: and then putting us back. And it's something humans do already,
Speaker 4: we do with animals.
Speaker 2: We do it right, right, so it doesn't it's usually
Speaker 2: not like ten out of ten sexy knockouts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's like part of the job.
Speaker 2: You have to be a smoke show and a scientist
Speaker 2: and willing to possibly get freaky deekey with these people.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that would be I mean, I don't know if
Speaker 4: that's a mission requirement. But what if we get to
Speaker 4: a point where, you know, the ones that have the
Speaker 4: best technology in the future are the ones that are
Speaker 4: also the most attractive and the smartest.
Speaker 1: Fascinating.
Speaker 4: Who knows.
Speaker 2: You've given me a lot to think about here today. Good,
Speaker 2: so we know that UFOs are real. We don't fully
Speaker 2: know what these things are.
Speaker 4: Mm hm.
Speaker 1: I mean, do you do you think about who knows
Speaker 1: the truth? Do you think there's people that know the truth?
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 4: If you follow you know the history of this phenomenon
Speaker 4: in euphology and all of the documents that have come
Speaker 4: out from like supposed military communications, like the Air Force,
Speaker 4: the Navy, CIA, So we're talking about defense and intelligence
Speaker 4: agencies that are surrounding this subject over the decades. It
Speaker 4: points to them knowing more about the subject, but then
Speaker 4: telling the public they don't know anything and there's nothing
Speaker 4: to see here. So that would be what initially was
Speaker 4: called the cover up. Some people call it a truth embargo,
Speaker 4: and I think post twenty seventeen, since like Louise Elizondo,
Speaker 4: former Pentagon worker that worked for the DoD on a
Speaker 4: parent Advanced Aerial Threat Identification program looking at UFO videos
Speaker 4: that were coming in from different sources and TIC tech video, Yeah,
Speaker 4: that type of stuff which he got declassified. With Christopher
Speaker 4: mellon the Go Fast and the Gimbal UFO videos all
Speaker 4: FLEAR captured by F eighteen fighter pilots. We're scrambled to
Speaker 4: intercept these things usually over the ocean that's apparently just
Speaker 4: the tip of the iceberg, you know, and the Pentagon
Speaker 4: sits on a treasure trove of this data. Now skeptics
Speaker 4: and debunkers say, oh, that's all just like BS or whatever.
Speaker 4: But if it's true, and this subject has been so
Speaker 4: tightly held by the intelligence and defense community for so long,
Speaker 4: we're kind of living in this moment in time post
Speaker 4: twenty seventeen when that New York Times paper got released
Speaker 4: by Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie Keene, you know, talking about
Speaker 4: those videos and Louise Ela Zondo and Christopher Mellen breaking
Speaker 4: this information, you know, whistleblowing kind of we're kind of
Speaker 4: in this like post disclosure era where more and more
Speaker 4: people are coming forward to talk about the truth of
Speaker 4: this and the cover up, the suppression and secrecy. I
Speaker 4: don't think, in my opinion, the intelligence or defense community
Speaker 4: would ever really want this to fully come forward, because
Speaker 4: if it's true that people have been hurt, killed, or
Speaker 4: seriously threatened to suppress this information over the years, why
Speaker 4: would they ever want that to fully come out, right,
Speaker 4: because then they have to admit to you know.
Speaker 2: Who's the one famous guy that like allegedly worked at
Speaker 2: Area fifty one.
Speaker 4: Bob Blazar.
Speaker 2: Bob Blazar, isn't he one of those ones that like
Speaker 2: has had a lot of drama with that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so he's he came out in the eighties through
Speaker 4: George Knapp, famous Nevada based Las Los Angeles reporter journalist
Speaker 4: for KLAS and now eight News. Now he's been on
Speaker 4: TMZ documentaries and stuff with Jeremy Corbel and stuff. So
Speaker 4: Bob Lazaar's story is that he worked at Area fifty
Speaker 4: one and he was hired to work on this like
Speaker 4: reverse engineering program for supposed alien craft that he called
Speaker 4: the sports Model that the American military had captured at
Speaker 4: one point in time in the past. And you know
Speaker 4: Louise el Zondo. David Grush is like another one of
Speaker 4: these whistleblowers that's come forward and testified before Congress in
Speaker 4: the past couple of years. There's only been three UAP
Speaker 4: congressional hearings to date so far. I've been physically in
Speaker 4: one of them. Really, yeah, it was pretty cool as
Speaker 4: a Canadian. But David Grush came forward. He was working
Speaker 4: on a program called the UAP Task Force. I've heard
Speaker 4: of that, and he was, you know, a dog hot
Speaker 4: on a trail sniffing out the secrecy of all this
Speaker 4: stuff and being pointed in the right direction by people
Speaker 4: that knew about these reverse engineering special access programs within
Speaker 4: the DoD and intelligence community. And he was an intelligence officer,
Speaker 4: so he had like the security clearances to supposedly get
Speaker 4: read into this type of stuff, but they wouldn't let
Speaker 4: him get direct access because the age old saying with
Speaker 4: regards to the secrecy of these actual programs is that
Speaker 4: it's need to know only right right. And then he
Speaker 4: became a whistleblower because he he got exposed to documentation
Speaker 4: and apparently saw videos and all that kind of proof
Speaker 4: that maybe Louise Elizondo was also being first hand, you know,
Speaker 4: experiencing when he worked for the Pentagon on a special
Speaker 4: access program but he couldn't get really fully ready in,
Speaker 4: but he interviewed people that were part of those programs
Speaker 4: that you know, we're saying this is bad, should be
Speaker 4: more out there to the public, and we should be
Speaker 4: changing the way that this is working.
Speaker 2: God, I will never be hired by the government because
Speaker 2: I would spill to everyone. Yeah, I would be like, girl,
Speaker 2: you're not gonna believe what kind of aliens they got.
Speaker 2: So you'll even hear these stories that they they have
Speaker 2: aliens like you know, whether alive or dead, that they.
Speaker 4: Some craft that they captured because apparently this has been
Speaker 4: like decades long programs they call them like legacy programs
Speaker 4: if it's like Roswell nineteen forty seven style, and then
Speaker 4: like there's new unacknowledged special access programs that are still
Speaker 4: going on today. And actually was a I don't know
Speaker 4: if you watched News Nation, which is like a CBE
Speaker 4: I think it's a CBS news network, But they released
Speaker 4: a story with journalist Ross coltheart recently, just last week,
Speaker 4: and a new whistleblower came forward named Jake Barber. Ross's Australian.
Speaker 1: It calls him Jake Baba Love the Baba Baba.
Speaker 4: And Jake said that he was part of one of
Speaker 4: these programs retrieving crashed craft or UAPs.
Speaker 1: So is there's not like a lifetime NDA like don't yeah.
Speaker 4: I think I think that's the point is that people
Speaker 4: that have experienced this or you know, been a part
Speaker 4: of this, are tired of that secrecy that they know
Speaker 4: that the greater implication is that we're not alone. That
Speaker 4: you know, the things should be explored more in the
Speaker 4: public and should be better known by the public, you know,
Speaker 4: people should be better informed, and it would also kind
Speaker 4: of change public consciousness. And probably if we knew more
Speaker 4: about these technologies, it would be an exciting and you know,
Speaker 4: scientific exploration progress in our time.
Speaker 2: I think it'd be fun to meet our neighbors, Like,
Speaker 2: I've had enough of humans, let's make some friends. I
Speaker 2: would love an alien pen pale. But I think we
Speaker 2: ultimately when anytime people panic or it's the conversations of like, yeah,
Speaker 2: if they revealed all this stuff.
Speaker 1: Everyone would freak out.
Speaker 2: The one good thing about it is like, it can't
Speaker 2: be that much of a threat because like it seems
Speaker 2: like it's been contained for a long time.
Speaker 4: If it is, yeah, I think we don't know all
Speaker 4: the nuance to that. Yeah, you know, we're not necessarily
Speaker 4: very good to every animal on the planet, and all
Speaker 4: animals are kind of there's evidence that you know, animals
Speaker 4: can prey on each other, you know, so all the
Speaker 4: way up the food chains. So we don't know for
Speaker 4: a fact that there isn't something out there that's non human,
Speaker 4: that's higher intelligence or equivalent that may want to prey
Speaker 4: on us, and there could be elements of that truth.
Speaker 4: There could also be benevolent intelligence out there that want
Speaker 4: to help us or want us to change, to become
Speaker 4: like a better citizen of the universe. You never know.
Speaker 2: That's what I always I'm one hundred percent convinced. I'm
Speaker 2: sure again, there's probably some assholes that have these UFOs,
Speaker 2: but I think that they are ultimately good and they
Speaker 2: want to help us. I think there's so much smarterer
Speaker 2: than us. They could absolutely take us out if they
Speaker 2: needed to, but they haven't, and I think that they
Speaker 2: are sick of looking at our ugly ass planet and
Speaker 2: they want to help.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we got a beautiful planet though, That's the thing,
Speaker 4: and that might be why they're attracted to our planet
Speaker 4: because it's this blue. I mean, if you look at
Speaker 4: space footage and tails from astronauts that have been outside
Speaker 4: the atmosphere, we're just like people that have been on
Speaker 4: a Jeff Bezos flight, you know, with blue origin. They're
Speaker 4: in awe because Earth is such a beautiful marvel to behold,
Speaker 4: and yeah, there's opportunity for maybe exploiting that. There's also
Speaker 4: opportunity to protect that beauty and stuff, right, So I
Speaker 4: think there's there possibly could be all kinds of reasons
Speaker 4: or motives for this phenomenon and possible interactions with non
Speaker 4: human intelligence if they're truly here, and I think one
Speaker 4: of those cases is real. They're here.
Speaker 1: Do you think that they're in the water.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a thing that's come up a lot before
Speaker 4: this Last year, I released a doc called trans Medium,
Speaker 4: and it's about I interviewed former Navy Admiral Tim Galladett,
Speaker 4: who also testified at one of the recent congressional hearings.
Speaker 4: I was actually at that one November thirteenth, twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4: And there's there's like, for example, those three UAP videos
Speaker 4: that were declassified and released of the public that was
Speaker 4: all ocean based phenomenon, And it seems like our navy
Speaker 4: and fighter pilots are engaging with this phenomenon and seeing
Speaker 4: evidence that it's emanating from the oceans or going into
Speaker 4: the oceans.
Speaker 2: And.
Speaker 4: What better place. I mean, you're kind of our limitations
Speaker 4: with the oceans is that we don't have the technology
Speaker 4: to circumvent friction and the ocean depth pressures and so
Speaker 4: on and so forth. So if you do have that
Speaker 4: technology that can allow you to navigate that other medium. Right,
Speaker 4: the ocean liquid water which is noncompressible, and you know,
Speaker 4: submarines I think can only travel at about like forty
Speaker 4: knots tops because of drag and all that. If you
Speaker 4: have technology and you can circumvent that, then you're basically
Speaker 4: saying cyinara to a fighter jet that's chasing you, because
Speaker 4: what are they going to do? Yeah, they're stuck in
Speaker 4: the atmosphere.
Speaker 2: So fine, Yeah, it would be so cool if they
Speaker 2: were down there and like like all the sharks and
Speaker 2: everyone already knows that they're down there, like that they
Speaker 2: can go down there, Like I don't. I just think
Speaker 2: it's I think that's fun to be because the ocean
Speaker 2: is just hasn't been explored.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it makes a lot of sense. I mean
Speaker 1: both both up or you know, up in the sky
Speaker 1: or space or weight ocean.
Speaker 2: Wait, no, no, it's a mystery, and I think, frankly,
Speaker 2: I'm of the camp where I think it's all fun
Speaker 2: as a mystery. But of course I'm nosy and I
Speaker 2: want all the answers, but I feel like I don't
Speaker 2: know if I had all the answers, then what are
Speaker 2: we going to talk about?
Speaker 4: There's always something new to explore right the world's changing
Speaker 4: and the way that we think of it. And I
Speaker 4: think this is one of those subjects that I actually
Speaker 4: started into it back in two thousand and nine, Like
Speaker 4: the very first documentary I ever made was released on
Speaker 4: YouTube in twenty twelve, and my views have changed quite
Speaker 4: a bit since then. I know that there's a lot
Speaker 4: of riff raft. There is a lot of like bs
Speaker 4: and culty type behavior and stuff that happens in eupology,
Speaker 4: but there's real stuff too, and I'm you know, sort
Speaker 4: of aligning myself with that more so and trying to,
Speaker 4: you know, correct whatever record I can. But this is like,
Speaker 4: you know, a place that when I first started researching it,
Speaker 4: I thought I was completely alone, a total like loser,
Speaker 4: you know, psycho outcast. And now you've got rear admirals
Speaker 4: testifying in front of Congress saying this is real, former
Speaker 4: intelligence and military officials. You've got congressmen and congress women
Speaker 4: reaching across the aisle. It's a bipartisan issue, one of
Speaker 4: the only ones that's crazy saying there's something here. There
Speaker 4: really is some kind of secrecy happening, and we need
Speaker 4: to unveil a bit more to the public. We should
Speaker 4: know more about where all our military budgets are going
Speaker 4: towards this subject and stuff like that. So it's it's wild.
Speaker 4: It's really kind of breaking open and becoming a mainstream
Speaker 4: topic now, and I never thought it would go that way.
Speaker 2: Talking to people NonStop, I would be so curious to
Speaker 2: see a survey of before and after the past few
Speaker 2: years on people's beliefs and if this stuff is real,
Speaker 2: because I encounter constantly people being like, well, that's real now,
Speaker 2: like we know that that's a thing. Yeah, Like it
Speaker 2: has given it the credibility that it never had.
Speaker 4: It's fascinating, yeah, And I mean there's exact evidence that
Speaker 4: proves that this was relegated to superstition, myth and considered
Speaker 4: a ridiculous joke before, Like the Air Force made that
Speaker 4: happen with Project Blue Book. They had a head scientist
Speaker 4: Jay Allen Heinek working on behalf of their organization, intercepting
Speaker 4: any credible cases and explaining to the public that it
Speaker 4: was swamp gas or prosaic explanations. When whole towns or
Speaker 4: communities were seeing objects land, you know, fly around in
Speaker 4: the sky over their farms and stuff like that, people
Speaker 4: some people reported being abducted back then. The Betty and
Speaker 4: Barney Hill case was, you know, part of the Project
Speaker 4: Blue Book Days and the Air Force got involved.
Speaker 1: That that's an iconic one. Yeah, the Betty and Barney
Speaker 1: Hill one. But we should probably wrap it up. I
Speaker 1: just realized how long we've been talking. This is so fun.
Speaker 1: I love hearing all this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Ross. Tell everyone where they can find your work.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they can check out my website, journeys is ocult
Speaker 4: journeys dot com is my studio site. They can see
Speaker 4: like all my past film catalog plus this one. And
Speaker 4: they can search my name on Amazon Prime too, BTV, Roku.
Speaker 4: I'm on Apple TV, like a bunch of different streaming sites.
Speaker 1: And Pascagoula seventy three is on all of those as well.
Speaker 4: Pasca Goula is just on Amazon right now, okay, but
Speaker 4: it's opening up to other platforms as we speak. Eventually
Speaker 4: it'll be on TV and stuff like that. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: they can find my socials like Instagram, Darcyweir Films or
Speaker 4: at Ocult Journeys on Twitter. I'm on Facebook too, just
Speaker 4: darcywear amazing.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, thank you so much to Darcy go check
Speaker 2: out Pasca Googla seventy three. If you haven't yet, google
Speaker 2: image this young man Kelvin. Just type in Kelvinpasca Goula.
Speaker 2: You're welcome anyway. Yeah, let me know what you think
Speaker 2: of these kinds of episodes. If you want more, if
Speaker 2: you want less, you know, no harm either way. Just
Speaker 2: trying to just trying to make everyone happy over here,
Speaker 2: trying to have a good time while talking about the paranormal.
Speaker 1: I love you all, both living and dead. But if
Speaker 1: I didn't ask you to haunt me, don't haunt me.
Speaker 1: Came by.
Speaker 2: This has been an exactly right production. Want to share
Speaker 2: your paranormal experience on the podcast. I read stories out
Speaker 2: loud and sometimes I'll even call you, so email me
Speaker 2: at ghosted by Roz at gmail dot com. You can
Speaker 2: send a DM or voice message to the show's Instagram
Speaker 2: at ghosted by Roz. Give us a follow while you're there,
Speaker 2: and follow me Roz on Instagram at Roz Hernandez and
Speaker 2: on TikTok and Twitter at It's Roz Hernandez. My senior
Speaker 2: producer is the startling Jiha Lee. Associate producer is the
Speaker 2: alarming Christina Chamberlain. This episode was mixed and sound designed
Speaker 2: by the eerie Edson Choi. My guest booker is the
Speaker 2: petrifying Patrick Kottner. Additional production support from the hair raising
Speaker 2: Hannah Kyle Crichton. My theme music is by the spine
Speaker 2: chilling Brendan Lynch Salomon. Artwork by the Spooky Vanessa Lilac,
Speaker 2: Photography by the terrifying Elizabeth Karen. Executive produced by the
Speaker 2: chilling Karen Kilgareff, the Spooky Georgia hard Stark, and the
Speaker 2: frightening Danielle Kramer.