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Speaker 1: sideways to learn more Thinking Sideways. I don't just stories
Speaker 1: of things we simply don't know the answer too. Hey everybody,
Speaker 1: and welcome again to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I
Speaker 1: am Steve, of course, is always joined by Devin and
Speaker 1: Joe and Devin to figure out who was who. Devin,
Speaker 1: by the way, spelled with an eye. And I know
Speaker 1: I think from now I know whenever you see your
Speaker 1: name should be answer me Devin with an eye. What
Speaker 1: about the silent you? Ye? That that always throws people
Speaker 1: off to the silent pls. Yeah, there's that part. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just don't like people to know how how to
Speaker 1: spell my name. Uh well, once again we have a
Speaker 1: mystery for you. This was, of course a listener suggestion
Speaker 1: that this was sent in by Ash Way way long ago.
Speaker 1: Oh I hope Ash from England is still listening. She's
Speaker 1: still listening. Yell hey Ash, if you're still listening, to
Speaker 1: send us an email or something. We're all through your suggestions.
Speaker 1: That's what we're gonna talk about today, is what caused
Speaker 1: the crash of South African Airways flight. I thought the
Speaker 1: answer to that gravity, I guess in a way that's true. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he does have a really good all right, So if
Speaker 1: you want to find our links, it's just like fifty
Speaker 1: minutes of silence after this. Yeah, you're welcome. Really should
Speaker 1: for April Fools, But no, I found this one on
Speaker 1: the list. It's been a long time since we done
Speaker 1: an airplane mystery, so I decided we should do one
Speaker 1: that's not true airplane mystery last week? What do we
Speaker 1: do last week? You're right, you know what I did
Speaker 1: realize also, is I'm an idiot. As you two know.
Speaker 1: I went on vacation and I did all of my
Speaker 1: research for this prior to going on vacation, which required
Speaker 1: me to be on an airplane for oh, I don't know,
Speaker 1: fifteen hours round trip. So while you're on that airplane,
Speaker 1: were you thinking about fires? And I was ignoring thing? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I had to. I finally I really got it through
Speaker 1: my head. I was like, wait, this is the same
Speaker 1: thing you do when you swim in the ocean. There
Speaker 1: are sharks in the ocean. There's just aren't any sharks
Speaker 1: there at the moment, so you're fine. Who was on
Speaker 1: an airplane after having done some research for this episode,
Speaker 1: and um, I was sitting in the window seat and
Speaker 1: I turned to my boyfriend and I said, does it
Speaker 1: make you nervous that there's something in between those window panes?
Speaker 1: Because there was like a piece of junk in there.
Speaker 1: I was like, how did it get in there? Then
Speaker 1: it makes me nervous. Yeah, you know. I was doing
Speaker 1: a little research for this and various random googles to
Speaker 1: try to find stuff out, and I found all these
Speaker 1: advisories out there from like the f A and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. It's like, oh, you know, you gotta go
Speaker 1: like this particular one. I was like, I was looking
Speaker 1: into oxygen generators and it's like, oh, you've gotta go
Speaker 1: visually inspect every oxygen generator and every seven forty seven
Speaker 1: and the entire fleet, you know, visually inspected. And we
Speaker 1: know that doesn't actually happen, we have probably not, but apparently, yeah,
Speaker 1: apparently defective ones out there. So it's like, and you know,
Speaker 1: something like the seven forty seven is such a huge,
Speaker 1: complex machine, so many things to go wrong. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: I just don't think about it as we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about. Yes, just one second, we are. So let's
Speaker 1: let's get back to s A A flight, to this flight,
Speaker 1: as we've already sort of given away, went down. It
Speaker 1: went down, and it killed all passengers and nineteen crew members.
Speaker 1: And then, of course, because it's a international event when
Speaker 1: an airplane goes down, there was a giant investigation which spawned.
Speaker 1: There was a whole bunch of theories that spawned out
Speaker 1: before the investigation was even started, and even more that
Speaker 1: came out after that. That sounds vaguely familiar, yes, really does.
Speaker 1: But let's first let's talk about the plane itself. South
Speaker 1: African Airways flight was a Boeing seven four seven DASH
Speaker 1: two four four B comby. Uh. The name of the
Speaker 1: plane was the Helderberg, which, yeah, I didn't know. I
Speaker 1: don't know that every airline names its airplanes. I don't
Speaker 1: think they do, but apparently Essay does. Yeah. I found
Speaker 1: out it's actually kind of a common thing, which was
Speaker 1: surprising to me. So that was the actual name of
Speaker 1: the plane. Yes, that's what they named the plane. Why
Speaker 1: did they name it Fifi because that's just not cool enough.
Speaker 1: Maybe the other ones were was already taken. Okay. The
Speaker 1: registration for the plane was z S dash S a
Speaker 1: S serial number two to one one. So we are
Speaker 1: going to start our story on the November. The aircraft
Speaker 1: is in shang Kai check International Airport, which is in Taipei, Taiwan.
Speaker 1: The flight was scheduled to go from Taipei to Johannesburg.
Speaker 1: Johannesburg and Johannesburg. I've heard it both ways. I share Johannesburg.
Speaker 1: So this is a long flight over a long stretch
Speaker 1: of water. It was expected to make one stop and
Speaker 1: that was gonna be on the island of Mauritius, which
Speaker 1: is in the Indian Ocean. It's five hundred miles away
Speaker 1: from Madagascar, which is eight hundred kilometers. So it's everything
Speaker 1: seems normal. The planes delayed, they can't take off on schedule.
Speaker 1: They're delayed an hour and a half because of thunderstorms.
Speaker 1: While they're held on the tarmac, the local customs decides
Speaker 1: to run a surprise inspection check out the cargo. Now
Speaker 1: do you know, was that something they just decided to
Speaker 1: do a lot on that day or was this an
Speaker 1: isolated incident. I never found anything that said other than
Speaker 1: it was just pay you're here, we might as well
Speaker 1: check you out just because we can. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: that probably was it, since especially since they were just
Speaker 1: sort of sitting around for an extra hour and a half,
Speaker 1: so why not do a little surprise and specially so
Speaker 1: I just but I was just wondering if they were
Speaker 1: you know, presumably there were other planes that were also
Speaker 1: delayed for a while. Yeah, I think this is just
Speaker 1: luck of the draw. It could be luck of the drug.
Speaker 1: It could actually be because they were South Africa, and
Speaker 1: then because there was an embargo, they said, you know,
Speaker 1: these guys have a motive to smuggle stuff. That's true, yea,
Speaker 1: So maybe that was it too. It is it is
Speaker 1: in uhn apartheid, it's still a thing, still not a
Speaker 1: very popular country South Africa. So they get checked and
Speaker 1: lo and behold, everything that's on the manifest is accounted for.
Speaker 1: There's nothing out of place. So they're hunky dory and
Speaker 1: they go ahead and tell them that when they're able
Speaker 1: to leave, they're welcome to leave. We should stop here, though,
Speaker 1: because there is an important bit of this, which is
Speaker 1: when I described the plane, I had mentioned that it
Speaker 1: was a seven four seven to four four b Colmby.
Speaker 1: Ye that it's for combination. Oh, it doesn't, It really doesn't.
Speaker 1: It's something that some airlines do that can work in
Speaker 1: their favor, especially in this situation. What it is, so
Speaker 1: you've got the main deck of a plane, and usually
Speaker 1: it's full of seats, except that if you're running a
Speaker 1: route that doesn't normally book an entire plane, this is
Speaker 1: a great plane to have because it doesn't have seats
Speaker 1: in the rear portion of the plane, and you can
Speaker 1: remove or add back seats as you need them, and
Speaker 1: the bulkhead and the galley move forward and back to
Speaker 1: screen that off from your passengers. So the comby this
Speaker 1: particular one could hold anywhere from six to twelve pallets,
Speaker 1: and at this time the back in the back Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: so you know we're normally the bathrooms are in the
Speaker 1: back of the plane. That area it had at this
Speaker 1: time it had six pallets back there, so smaller configuration,
Speaker 1: but it's a yeah, it's a pretty handy idea. Actually,
Speaker 1: Bowing made a similar version of the seven Also, it
Speaker 1: was convertible. You could pull out the seats and have
Speaker 1: cargo instead. It's are fully adjustable. If you've been on
Speaker 1: an airplane recently, and you look down where your seat attaches.
Speaker 1: It attaches to a track. Seats are completely movable, because
Speaker 1: that's how they've eliminated the knee room. They just have
Speaker 1: to fight them up. They just push them all back
Speaker 1: to back and then pull them about an inch exactly,
Speaker 1: and they're like, that's fine, that's fine, you're comfortable. Have
Speaker 1: you have you seen some of the new seating. There
Speaker 1: was a proposed seating arrangement that came out not too
Speaker 1: long ago, like six months ago. I think we posted this.
Speaker 1: That's the one where you're sitting. You're sitting and then
Speaker 1: there's a guy that's like half a level up from you,
Speaker 1: facing you, and your sort of faces in his cross
Speaker 1: You talk about, yeah, yeah, we get back even where
Speaker 1: people on the planes, Yeah, you have to upgrade to
Speaker 1: the area. They's got two more inches. So you can't
Speaker 1: just go ahead and say I'll sit on the emergency
Speaker 1: aisle because I'm a good guy. You know, you have
Speaker 1: to pay for that, because the emergency gets more roo. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Actually they on the flight I was just on um simultaneously.
Speaker 1: It was like five times as much to reserve the
Speaker 1: seats for the emergency row, which is kind of like,
Speaker 1: why would you do that? Why would you want? You know? Okay,
Speaker 1: really and then um, the trade tables. My phone is
Speaker 1: actually bigger than the like actually like like I put
Speaker 1: my phone on it and it was too Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was too deep for the That's the state of the
Speaker 1: airline travel in America everywhere. But I guess it's benefit
Speaker 1: you're since I kind of flap. The last was still
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, and I was I would seated on the
Speaker 1: emergency island and they didn't charge me extra and they
Speaker 1: do now. But anyway, we're off track. Let's get back
Speaker 1: to the Combi. Okay. So here's the thing is that
Speaker 1: we're talking about the fact that it's got that area
Speaker 1: in the rear that they put they can put cargo,
Speaker 1: and you know, that's advantageous for slow roots. This route
Speaker 1: was and a lot of roots actually for South African
Speaker 1: airways were kind of bad at the time because, as
Speaker 1: we said, it was apartheid. Everybody hated them, well, a
Speaker 1: lot of countries hated them. There was embargoes and one
Speaker 1: of the things that countries would do is they would say, hey,
Speaker 1: you can't fly through our airspace. Yeah, so let's give
Speaker 1: an example. Let's say, you're gonna go from what is it,
Speaker 1: it's Cape Cape Town, and you're gonna go to London.
Speaker 1: Now the simple answer is to fly in a straight
Speaker 1: line essentially London, but you can't do that. They had
Speaker 1: to fly over the ocean around the entire continent and
Speaker 1: then go to England. So it was a huge damper
Speaker 1: on business. So good if you wanted to fly from
Speaker 1: Cape Town to Jerusalem, you had to fly out a
Speaker 1: circle and then then then like say go to maybe Paris,
Speaker 1: maybe Athens and then on Israel, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was definitely long way around. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: so it was. It was not a good thing. And
Speaker 1: they actually had two of these planes, so this was
Speaker 1: one of the two that they had at Combies. So
Speaker 1: they had it in that configuration where there was less
Speaker 1: seating and there was you said, there were twelve palates
Speaker 1: in the back. Six to twelve is what it was
Speaker 1: capable of carrying. This flight had six flight takes off.
Speaker 1: Everything appears normal, really, everything went fine for about the
Speaker 1: first night and a half hours. Really it was I
Speaker 1: think it was supposed to take eleven hours to get
Speaker 1: to get to Mauritius and then they were going to
Speaker 1: bounce on from there, So it's a long, long flight. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The thing that I didn't realized, and I don't know
Speaker 1: that a lot of people realize, is that planes are
Speaker 1: constantly checking in at way points. And as they were
Speaker 1: doing their flight, and they were checking in at every
Speaker 1: way point, everything is fine, um, right up until about
Speaker 1: the nine and a half hour mark. At eight pm UTC,
Speaker 1: which is Universal Time Coordinated, which equates to from Uritius.
Speaker 1: It was three am in the morning local time. The
Speaker 1: flight contacted the control tower and they said that they
Speaker 1: had smoke on board and that they were descending per
Speaker 1: their guidelines to four thousand feet. We know this because
Speaker 1: of the voice data recorder that was on the plane
Speaker 1: and that was eventually found, Yes, and also we have
Speaker 1: the tapes from the control tower that they were speaking
Speaker 1: to UM. In the conversation, the flight requests and is
Speaker 1: granted full emergency landing status, which means where do you
Speaker 1: want to land, pick your runway, we'll give it to you.
Speaker 1: And so they did that. Then they asked where they were.
Speaker 1: And this is a weird thing is that there's a
Speaker 1: bit of a mix up in the communication because the
Speaker 1: signal wasn't all that great the audio was pretty poor,
Speaker 1: but the flight when ass said that they were sixty
Speaker 1: five miles now the tower, well the tower took that
Speaker 1: to me, and they were sixty five miles out from
Speaker 1: the tower instead. It turns out what the what the
Speaker 1: guys on the plane were saying is that they were
Speaker 1: sixty five miles away from a way point. And that
Speaker 1: way point is I'm just gonna spell it because I
Speaker 1: can't even pronounce it X A G A L. Maybe
Speaker 1: so they had so they had passed that way point
Speaker 1: sixty five miles ago was what it was, or they
Speaker 1: were sixty five miles away from even hitting that way point.
Speaker 1: Do you know? I don't. I'm never quite sure, because
Speaker 1: I can if it's worded this way there it made it,
Speaker 1: you don't. I don't know. All I know is that
Speaker 1: it turns out they were actually hud miles away from
Speaker 1: the actual airport, so they were way farther out to
Speaker 1: see than anybody expected them to be, which complicated the
Speaker 1: search and rescue a little bit. So, like I said,
Speaker 1: they were granted full emergency status. There's a brief communication
Speaker 1: and then communication goes silent thirty six minutes after the
Speaker 1: last word. The last word you know it. It wasn't
Speaker 1: anything mysterious. It was they were having their conversation and
Speaker 1: then it just kind of petered off. I thought it
Speaker 1: was that, you know, the tower had said, okay, so
Speaker 1: where do you want to land? No, they confirmed where
Speaker 1: they wanted to land. I remember that they conferred which
Speaker 1: runway they wanted and then after that it just kind
Speaker 1: of dropped. And it didn't when I read the transcript,
Speaker 1: it didn't seem as if it cut off in the
Speaker 1: middle of anything. It just kind of stopped. You got
Speaker 1: a fire on board that I'm gonna go deal with
Speaker 1: this other I'm gonna go deal with this thing. I'll
Speaker 1: be back. Well, you know, you read these things. They
Speaker 1: got to have the sign stamps. I've read other transcripts
Speaker 1: of these things, and you know, it's it's not like
Speaker 1: they're constantly talking. There's that they're long pauses while they're
Speaker 1: going about doing things like flying the plane, going to
Speaker 1: the bathroom, getting a fresh beer, you know, and uh
Speaker 1: and so yeah, that wasn't They weren't chopped off. But
Speaker 1: there was an interesting thing that the pilot said though,
Speaker 1: which was close the bloody door, and that was that
Speaker 1: was because somebody came into the cockpit. I that's what
Speaker 1: I was assuming. At first, I thought, well, as you're
Speaker 1: talking about the door between the passenger compartments and the hold,
Speaker 1: and I realized, now, that's way far back. It can't
Speaker 1: possibly be that. So it's not an expression of alarm.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. No, I would think it would. I mean,
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong. But it's my impression that
Speaker 1: the passenger compartment and the pilot area cockpit, that's the
Speaker 1: word I'm looking for, that they're totally sat once you
Speaker 1: close and secure that door. It's like totally separate, isn't
Speaker 1: it like the air systems everything. No. Not, At the time,
Speaker 1: it wasn't. It wasn't an airtight super confort pretty airtight, right,
Speaker 1: I mean it had to steal around it. It may
Speaker 1: not have been totally type, but like a door with
Speaker 1: the gaps, oxygen and gases would come into the cockpits still,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't completely sealed off. But mostly it was
Speaker 1: to stop the smoke. I'm pretty sure from coming in.
Speaker 1: Open the door, a bunch of black smoke rolls in.
Speaker 1: Shut the freaking door, you're I can't, I can't see that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the I think they had the one difference between the
Speaker 1: main passenger compartment and the cockpit is that you've got
Speaker 1: your little oxygen masks, the one that drops down over head,
Speaker 1: which is good for about twelve minutes. And then those
Speaker 1: guys have the full on apparatus so they can go
Speaker 1: for a long time, which is important. Oh yeah, obviously
Speaker 1: they should have they should have the better one. Yes,
Speaker 1: they don't need they don't need the one that where
Speaker 1: you gotta straighten the tube that you see the Steward
Speaker 1: of Steward is doing. You know, they need something much better. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: so back to our story here though. Thirty six minutes
Speaker 1: after their last contact, the tower alerts, well the world,
Speaker 1: They tell everybody, hey disappeared, lost them. Every country that
Speaker 1: had ships or aircraft in the area go looking. But
Speaker 1: of course they they're looking, right, So that's it takes
Speaker 1: twelve hours before the first bits of debris are found,
Speaker 1: and that debris is oil slicks. There's semi buoyant things
Speaker 1: like I'm guessing seats or vests and seat cushions that
Speaker 1: can be used for flotation devices. And there was a
Speaker 1: life after two. And also you know those inflatable slides
Speaker 1: come down the un One of those I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: and eight bodies. And as soon as they found the
Speaker 1: bodies and they examine them, based on the extent of
Speaker 1: damage that was done to the bodies, they knew that
Speaker 1: the plane had gone down and it was catastrophic and
Speaker 1: all hands were lost. Well, I mean, it wasn't an
Speaker 1: apparent before that. I'm sure that it was, but you
Speaker 1: know how these things, but this is our final we
Speaker 1: we can't. We can't hold out hope anymore, we know.
Speaker 1: But it's also weird, right because if you find the
Speaker 1: like the security what, oh my god, cockpit no, no, no,
Speaker 1: the flotation rap things, if you find those out right,
Speaker 1: you you can maybe think, well, maybe some people survived
Speaker 1: and deployed that, or maybe it was so catastrophic that
Speaker 1: bounced out, or are just automatically the slides, for example, automatically.
Speaker 1: So that would be the question, right, is Like, based
Speaker 1: on examining the bodies, you could say, oh, yeah, everybody
Speaker 1: died on impact. I'm guessing the extent of damage made
Speaker 1: it quite odd. That would be my guess. Yeah, But
Speaker 1: that'd bey there would be a question, right is that
Speaker 1: it could be? Yeah. Now, of course, with any accident
Speaker 1: of this magnitude, there is a huge formal investigation takes
Speaker 1: a while because of course, first order of business is
Speaker 1: to find the wreckage. They eventually do. In that record,
Speaker 1: that wreckage is found to be five thousand meters down
Speaker 1: or sixteen thousand feet kind of far down there. That's
Speaker 1: really far deeper than the Titanic. Yeah, yeah, way down there. Um.
Speaker 1: And it's the only way they got there was with
Speaker 1: a r o V the little remote operated vehicles, a
Speaker 1: little submersibles. It's the only way. The Jackson Peter Jackson,
Speaker 1: George Lucas, which is the one talking about, um, who
Speaker 1: did Titanic. No, it doesn't matter, okay, James Cameron, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the one of the other three. Yeah. Yeah, So this
Speaker 1: isn't And this is an object of contention because I
Speaker 1: have read incredible sources that were there were two debris
Speaker 1: fields instead of three. Yeah, because I've read three. Most
Speaker 1: play say, is that I've read about it. Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: read I've read another places that there were only two
Speaker 1: debris fields. Well, what we're talking about here, for everybody
Speaker 1: who hasn't done the reading on it is the debris
Speaker 1: fields are where most of the stuff from plane settles
Speaker 1: on the bottom, and there were debris fields whether it's
Speaker 1: two or three and they were anywhere from one and
Speaker 1: a half to two and a half kilometers apart. Is
Speaker 1: that a typical as far as we know? I mean,
Speaker 1: things that hit the water at great speed tend to
Speaker 1: break up, and then those individual chunks tend to separate
Speaker 1: and drift away from each other. But not so much
Speaker 1: because tides and stuff, right, I mean, well there's currents
Speaker 1: and whatnot. I mean two thousand thousand meters, it's not
Speaker 1: actually all that far when you think about how far
Speaker 1: it had to say, Yeah, I just wasn't sure if
Speaker 1: it was like a typical that it would be, you know,
Speaker 1: three or two, or if that mattered, if that never
Speaker 1: mattered or were I don't think it really, I don't
Speaker 1: think it was. It was bringing it up for fun. No, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think there was any significance to Some people
Speaker 1: believe that it might have meant that the plane broke
Speaker 1: up in mid air before it hit, but you know,
Speaker 1: it's maybe I can see, I can see how you
Speaker 1: would take it that way. Doesn't necessarily mean that that's
Speaker 1: what happened, because I'm sorry, if you think about an
Speaker 1: airplane coming down at an angle and tumbling when it
Speaker 1: hits the water, that thing's gonna fly into a bunch
Speaker 1: of big chunks. Yeah, and also you know it's going
Speaker 1: to get spread up because something's weigh a lot more
Speaker 1: than other things. Something's he's going to sink. He's gonna
Speaker 1: stop faster than say, broken off wings. Yea, it took
Speaker 1: a while, but as we had talked about, eventually they
Speaker 1: did get the cockpit voice recorder that was found. Um
Speaker 1: though the flight data recorders were never found. And if
Speaker 1: anybody's interested on how flight data recorders work stuff, you
Speaker 1: should know did a great episode on it and it
Speaker 1: took them an hour to explain it. Also, we're not
Speaker 1: going to go into this. You know. The thing about
Speaker 1: the about the data recorders is is why haven't they
Speaker 1: invented a self ejecting one, one that senses a crash
Speaker 1: is about to occur and just pops itself out of
Speaker 1: the plane, Because that's always it's always such an ordeal
Speaker 1: to find that thing. I just don't know why they
Speaker 1: don't make them more floaty. Yeah, they should, like you know,
Speaker 1: they should. It is the technical term. Yeah, I learned
Speaker 1: that on the cruise ship. Everybody can take a drink
Speaker 1: just trying to get drinks in for our drinking friends.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that's one on the drinking game. I think.
Speaker 1: I think just just like like tape them to the
Speaker 1: outside of the plane so they come off in the
Speaker 1: crash and they float up to the surface. Yeah, duct
Speaker 1: tape every you know, three flights or whatever. Yeah, with
Speaker 1: the when you're examining all of the oxygen things. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So they send the r o vs down. The r
Speaker 1: o v s recover parts of the plane. The things
Speaker 1: that they think are going to be important to examine.
Speaker 1: They can't get at all because the seas, I mean, hey,
Speaker 1: it's so far down in be the siege just are
Speaker 1: not cooperating. So they took what they could. They took
Speaker 1: all the debris about back to South Africa, where the
Speaker 1: official investigation started. Sorry, I'm might have missed it because
Speaker 1: I was like busy reading ahead or something. Did we
Speaker 1: say what where what ocean? And where they were found?
Speaker 1: Eventually where or so away? That's where they actually and
Speaker 1: that's where they were found. Yes, which is which it's
Speaker 1: which ocean is that that's the it's actually the debris
Speaker 1: was found right about where. Everybody thinks that that right
Speaker 1: in that neighborhood and little Yeah, course that's helpful. Actually, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was just sorry, No, no, no, it totally makes sense.
Speaker 1: Where was they? Oh so the investment, official investigation, it starts.
Speaker 1: What they find is they find that something had caught
Speaker 1: fire in the cargo area on that main deck, special
Speaker 1: cargo area, the on the main deck where seat passenger
Speaker 1: seating would be. Yes, not the baggage in the combined area, Yes,
Speaker 1: the calmby area of the bomb, if you will. They
Speaker 1: find that it's specifically, it's on the right front palette,
Speaker 1: which is referred to as PR, which I'm gonna guess
Speaker 1: means palette right. So the pallet, the right palette closest
Speaker 1: to Okay, So, if you're sitting on the plane, or
Speaker 1: let's say you're at the back of the plane and
Speaker 1: you're looking forward to the cockpit, on your right hand side,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be three palelettes, and on your left hand
Speaker 1: side there's gonna be three palets because you were in
Speaker 1: two rows, the very farthest one forward, so one the
Speaker 1: most to the right, not the most aft, the most front. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the most front front, right right pallet. I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I know what I'm talking about and I
Speaker 1: think you're talking about the same thing, but are making
Speaker 1: me nervous with how much you're explaining it. So, if
Speaker 1: I'm the last row on the right side, it's directly
Speaker 1: behind me in passenger seating, it would be behind the
Speaker 1: galley wall on the right hand side. Yes, you probably
Speaker 1: a fire, but no, So that's that's where it was.
Speaker 1: And that's where they said they figured out a fire
Speaker 1: was at Yeah, because they looked at the piece of
Speaker 1: the fuselage that came from there and there was like
Speaker 1: evidence of intense intense heat, intense heat there right, So
Speaker 1: that would have been the fuselage above PR. And so
Speaker 1: what they what nobody sure of though, is where the
Speaker 1: fire was. I mean, it could have been PR the
Speaker 1: palette that was sitting in that location was on fire
Speaker 1: and burning, or was it something up high that was burning.
Speaker 1: Like they never really knew what was causing it. Well,
Speaker 1: they could tell is that it did a ton of
Speaker 1: damage and they sorry. And they also could tell this
Speaker 1: is a question um, that it wasn't something that was
Speaker 1: of lower flammability somewhere else that caught onto something on
Speaker 1: that palette that was higher volatility. We don't know if
Speaker 1: the fire jumped from one place to another and then
Speaker 1: scorched the seat. But that was where the most intense.
Speaker 1: That's where the fire that they could tell based on
Speaker 1: the metal. It burned hot enough that it pitted the
Speaker 1: metal and there was slag thrown around. That's really hot.
Speaker 1: It's really really hot. And of course they concluded that
Speaker 1: the palette itself was something and it started the fire
Speaker 1: most likely, well that's what they believed. But so that
Speaker 1: was my question is like, if something of lower volatility
Speaker 1: happened to catch fire, the whole fire jump, yeah, and
Speaker 1: that it was just that there was a lot of
Speaker 1: vaulatal stuff on that palette. We don't know. Well, the palette,
Speaker 1: the palette itself was it was plastic wrapped in plastic.
Speaker 1: It was computer stuff and it was wrapped in what
Speaker 1: the heck was polystyrene packing. So it's plastic wrapped around
Speaker 1: hunks of plastic. Plastic burns hot, but but not that.
Speaker 1: But that was palette. Are that cargo? Yep? That was
Speaker 1: pr Yeah, it was computer computers was what it was,
Speaker 1: which you're all, plastic was very little metalist. It seems
Speaker 1: unlikely that well, I mean, you know, it depends, it
Speaker 1: could have, but it's hard to say. So there's a
Speaker 1: whole massive, really cool vintage computers scattered about the ocean floor. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that are like partially burned and melted. Probably yeah, probably.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I would go for the blooms.
Speaker 1: Joe's going for melted computer parts. I'm just gonna go
Speaker 1: for a galleon like of whatever gold. Uh. But most
Speaker 1: everything that was in the cargo hold area was polystyrene wrapped,
Speaker 1: except for there was a there was a few things
Speaker 1: that were cardboard boxes, and there was a few heavy
Speaker 1: items that were like auto parks, things that were in
Speaker 1: wooden boxes. Crates, Yeah, there were crates with hay packing
Speaker 1: stuff like that. So this is seems to be what
Speaker 1: would have been the most flammable to burn hot and hard.
Speaker 1: So it's weird that it was a palateful of computers
Speaker 1: and it's little. Yeah, it's a little bit, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: makes you kind of wonder what's going on. Yeah, maybe
Speaker 1: it was not really that at all. Maybe not. There
Speaker 1: there are some theories that say that. But actually, before
Speaker 1: we get into theories, I do want to point out
Speaker 1: something that I have seen that I don't really like. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and this agree with you peeves me off. I agree, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I absolutely agree. Okay, so here's what I'm talking about. There,
Speaker 1: there are several sites that say sites there shows there's
Speaker 1: things that say that the crew did not follow their
Speaker 1: fire procedure there, which would be the smoke evacuation checklist.
Speaker 1: The that that checklist would say that in the event
Speaker 1: of a fire you descend, you open the doors to
Speaker 1: depressurize the plane to suck all the smoke out. By
Speaker 1: the way, you have to do that after the fires out.
Speaker 1: You can't do it well, the fire still going. This
Speaker 1: bad idea. But these places say that they didn't do it,
Speaker 1: but they have no way of knowing that because the
Speaker 1: flight had already said it was descending and then minutes
Speaker 1: after that we lost content. I'm sure that they were
Speaker 1: probably highly motivated to go back there and put that
Speaker 1: fire out. I'm pretty sure that this they didn't follow.
Speaker 1: The checklist thing comes from a TV show. There's a
Speaker 1: TV show called may Day or depending on which country
Speaker 1: you're in. It's under a number of different names. There's
Speaker 1: air crash Investigations, air emergency, air disaster on the great names,
Speaker 1: which shows evidently been on for a while. They go,
Speaker 1: this sounds like the show that they're showing on the
Speaker 1: airplane in airplane probably that you probably shouldn't be laughing,
Speaker 1: but it's okay. These goofballs though they say this and
Speaker 1: they put a negative spin on it, and it's not
Speaker 1: appropriate in my mind, because they have no way to
Speaker 1: know that from what we know, they were following what
Speaker 1: they should have been doing. Um, I would imagine they would,
Speaker 1: like I said, they were motivated. Well, and here's here's
Speaker 1: some Actually, there's some specifics that proved that they were
Speaker 1: probably doing it. Because at twenty nine minutes and five
Speaker 1: seconds on the uh the voice recorder, the captain's heard
Speaker 1: asking the main deck cargo are asking for the main
Speaker 1: deck cargo fire checklist, so he's he's asking for this
Speaker 1: is again minutes before the transmissions lost. So it seems
Speaker 1: like they were doing what they were supposed to. The
Speaker 1: other thing that I want folks to understand is what
Speaker 1: a terrible idea it turns out the Calmby was and
Speaker 1: how terribly it it performed in the event of a fire. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, the comedy was a great idea. It just
Speaker 1: I just didn't have a good fire suppression system and
Speaker 1: the car and there was some there was some bad math.
Speaker 1: I would say, some bad math was done on the
Speaker 1: way things worked. And let me let me run this through.
Speaker 1: Some people know where I'm going with my kind of
Speaker 1: little uh so box. I know the size of the
Speaker 1: cargo hold in that area is nineties six hundred cubic feet.
Speaker 1: I don't know what that converts to in meters. I
Speaker 1: didn't do the math on that one, sorry, folks, but
Speaker 1: it's uh. That area was thought that big of an
Speaker 1: area was thought that it would help keep by products
Speaker 1: of a fire a k a. Smoke from getting into
Speaker 1: the passenger cabin, based on the fact that there was
Speaker 1: a pressure difference between the two. Was the passenger cabin
Speaker 1: was at a higher pressure than the cargo hold. The
Speaker 1: seal of the little movable wall that they had wasn't
Speaker 1: air tight fit. It had a thick seal, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't completely air tight. But air would flow from high
Speaker 1: pressure cabin to lower pressure cargo area. So it makes
Speaker 1: sense to think, well, great, that'll keep all the smoke
Speaker 1: back there. But it turns out when there's a raging
Speaker 1: hot fire, the pressure change yea yeah, and suddenly the
Speaker 1: flow reverses and it all rolls into the passenger compartment,
Speaker 1: So that was a problem. This actually is the thing
Speaker 1: about it is is you know they might have actually
Speaker 1: been overcome by smoke in relation and if they had
Speaker 1: just deployed their oxygen masks and and I don't know
Speaker 1: if if these guys actually have like portable oxygen units
Speaker 1: to where they can go fight the fire while they're
Speaker 1: wearing a gas man the crew. Yeah, I believe they were.
Speaker 1: I believe there is that. Yeah, So that's that's you know,
Speaker 1: I mean I think that if they had just deployed
Speaker 1: their oxygen for the passengers and themselves, that it might
Speaker 1: have turned out a little differently. That's a hard one.
Speaker 1: Having gone through firefighter training on my time on a
Speaker 1: cruise ship, um, it's it's startlingly hard to navigate an
Speaker 1: area when it's filled with smoke, even when you have
Speaker 1: your little mask on and your breathing real oxygen. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, they train you to like follow the wall,
Speaker 1: but in this huge cargo hold that you're not, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just filled with smoke. You don't know where it's
Speaker 1: coming from, and you probably have your tiny little fire extinguisher,
Speaker 1: like there's no way you all bets are off. There's
Speaker 1: no way you're going to find that fire probably or
Speaker 1: find the right thing, or maybe you don't have the
Speaker 1: right extinguisher or the fire suppression was also one of
Speaker 1: the big problems with the combies, because okay, let's talk
Speaker 1: about this. Is that in an airplane, if the cargo
Speaker 1: hold where your bage go on a passenger airline catches
Speaker 1: on fire, the guys in the cockpit get a warning
Speaker 1: light and they push your button and free on gas
Speaker 1: is blasted in there and it extinguishes the whole thing.
Speaker 1: But like we talked about, you can't do that in
Speaker 1: an area that potentially would have human being. Can't do that.
Speaker 1: Just in case anybody was wondering, you will kill you
Speaker 1: pretty immediately. No, it's crazy, it's it's yeah. So instead,
Speaker 1: what what the what the process was is, oh, well
Speaker 1: then what we'll do is will as Devon was talking,
Speaker 1: is that will send one of our crew members with
Speaker 1: their masks and a fire extinguisher into that area. That's
Speaker 1: as they have a mask. I don't even know if
Speaker 1: they do. On I think they did. I got the
Speaker 1: impression that they would. You would think that they would,
Speaker 1: because I mean, it makes no sense to send somebody
Speaker 1: into a smoke filled cargo hold without a breathing apparatus
Speaker 1: because he's got to he's gonna last about what thirty seconds?
Speaker 1: So the point is that they could get in there,
Speaker 1: and then they had to put out the fire before
Speaker 1: we could open the doors and vent the plane. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was another another suppression system that I was reading
Speaker 1: about that uses CEO to the snuff out the fire,
Speaker 1: and that didn't work out so well either. I can't
Speaker 1: remember the flight, but they had that. They Yeah, they
Speaker 1: were no is down. They were the pilot had nose
Speaker 1: down for obvious reasons. He was taking it closer to
Speaker 1: backup Joe. So everybody knows what Joe's talking about, isn't
Speaker 1: is a flight that catches on fire and they put
Speaker 1: out CEO two, which it doesn't burn, and so it
Speaker 1: kills the fire, but then the plane noses down. C
Speaker 1: O two is heavier, so it runs downhill with the
Speaker 1: plane and fills the cockpit with CEO two and kills
Speaker 1: the flight crew and the plane goes down. It didn't
Speaker 1: work out. That's another instance where they it really would
Speaker 1: have been a smart idea for them to put on
Speaker 1: their oxygen masks. But the problem with CEO two is
Speaker 1: you don't know it's there. They had no way of
Speaker 1: knowing that it was going to the deloy. Like they
Speaker 1: knew they were doing it, but they didn't know that
Speaker 1: it would flow in there. They it was supposed to
Speaker 1: be separated. I get that. But here's my message to
Speaker 1: the airlines that they haven't gotten already is whenever a
Speaker 1: fire breaks out, everybody in the cockpit puts on their masks.
Speaker 1: Unless it's the oxygen system is on fire, then oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a bad problem. The last thing that I want
Speaker 1: to point out, um in defense of the crew doing
Speaker 1: what they were supposed to be doing, is we talked
Speaker 1: about that somebody had to go back into that area
Speaker 1: to fight the fire. Yeah, well they one of the
Speaker 1: fire extinguishers was recovered. It was a fire extinguisher from
Speaker 1: from door to our which I will be honest, I
Speaker 1: don't know exactly where that is on the plane. But
Speaker 1: what is important to note is that it had stuck
Speaker 1: to it the webbing or netting that was used in
Speaker 1: the cargo area at the door, which means the stuff
Speaker 1: was hot and it hit it and stuck to it
Speaker 1: and you know, cooled on. So they know that somebody
Speaker 1: was taking a fire extinguisher into that area to try
Speaker 1: and combat the fire and maybe getting overcome with smoke
Speaker 1: in relation. Maybe I don't know, but um that uh,
Speaker 1: that that was, and that was one of the eleven
Speaker 1: fire extinguishers total that we're on the plane, and for
Speaker 1: all we know, more of them we're being used to
Speaker 1: because they didn't. This is the only one they recovered,
Speaker 1: So there was a bunch of them that we just
Speaker 1: don't know where they went. Yeah, they probably could have
Speaker 1: recovered a lot more stuff, but that would be expensive.
Speaker 1: It would be very expensive, and at some point instigations
Speaker 1: are Yeah, I think I think once they recovered that
Speaker 1: piece of the fuselage that had the extensive heat damage,
Speaker 1: and then that's sort of like because the kind of
Speaker 1: kind of sealed the deal. I mean, if they recovered
Speaker 1: more pieces, they might get more information that would lead
Speaker 1: them in a different direction maybe, But that's that's the
Speaker 1: end of the soapbox that I was standing on. In
Speaker 1: defense of the crew, I know, I think it's important.
Speaker 1: You do see a lot of stuff out there with
Speaker 1: people saying, oh, the crew, just if they had just
Speaker 1: done better, But it's just like until you're in that situation,
Speaker 1: until you really listen to the transcripts and tell you
Speaker 1: take that step, think about the think about the passengers
Speaker 1: freaking the f out. I mean that to then try
Speaker 1: to to work your way back through the plane. Um,
Speaker 1: it's actually believed that most of the passengers had gotten
Speaker 1: out of their seats and had moved to the front
Speaker 1: of the plane to try and escape the smoke it
Speaker 1: was coming out from the back wall. So I mean
Speaker 1: that it's not good. It's not good. And then you know,
Speaker 1: on top of that, at the door, I mean, I
Speaker 1: think you never know as a person how you're going
Speaker 1: to react in a situation like that, and that includes
Speaker 1: people who are the crew, you know, And it's possible
Speaker 1: that it was just one or two members of the
Speaker 1: crew kind of holding it together, trying to fight back
Speaker 1: against the one hundred and forty people trying to get there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't imagine what it's like if you're piloting the plane. Also,
Speaker 1: that's why you closed the door. And but but if
Speaker 1: you're dealing with this whole situation with fire and communicating
Speaker 1: with the tower and everything where you're going at the
Speaker 1: same time, suddenly a huge amount of way that's suddenly
Speaker 1: just shifted to the front of the plane. Yeah, you've
Speaker 1: got to take care of that. I mean, that's really
Speaker 1: screw things up. I mean there's yeah, I mean there's
Speaker 1: a lot of things that could have been done. You know,
Speaker 1: maybe perhaps of the passengers just did put perhaps that
Speaker 1: the crew had put their masks on and they might
Speaker 1: have been overcome by smoke. Again, this is there we
Speaker 1: just don't point out. This is total conjecture where we
Speaker 1: don't know if they did or did not down their mass,
Speaker 1: whether the passengers did or did not stay in their seats.
Speaker 1: These are things we just don't know. Note this is
Speaker 1: the upside of air disasters too, is that we always
Speaker 1: learned something from them. I mean, air travel now is
Speaker 1: so much more safer. And the reason is it's because
Speaker 1: we spend a ton of money and figuring out what
Speaker 1: we're wrong. Yeah, well I guess that one. When Dallas
Speaker 1: build another. Yeah, it's like, thank god, we don't do
Speaker 1: it with the Titanic though. Yeah. Yeah, alright, Well let's
Speaker 1: let's get into theories, because there are a huge number
Speaker 1: of theories. Yeah, some very far fetched and some obscenely logical.
Speaker 1: And we're going to start. Actually, I've only seen one
Speaker 1: that's really totally. Well I've seen too, but that's you know,
Speaker 1: it's me um. So let's start with the one of
Speaker 1: the far out ones, because I always like to start
Speaker 1: with some of the far out I like this, I
Speaker 1: like this guy's webpage. Yeah, all right, so the first
Speaker 1: theory is at the plane with sabotage. We are going
Speaker 1: to start by talking about a guy named David Mechanic
Speaker 1: and he spells that with a K. The mechanic is
Speaker 1: actually a mechanic as opposed to a mechanic or something
Speaker 1: like that. I'm going to say he's a mechanic. Let's
Speaker 1: call it mechanic that like a mechanic mechanic. The mechanic,
Speaker 1: by his own description, was a weapons engineer, and he
Speaker 1: said he worked for the South African government in the
Speaker 1: late eighties and according to him, he was contracted to
Speaker 1: I love this build a weapon capable of taking out
Speaker 1: Miggs out of the sky while at the same time
Speaker 1: making it look like pilot error. Well that's so easy
Speaker 1: to do. How do you do that? Lazers? By the way,
Speaker 1: that if anybody doesn't know a MiG is a fighter jet,
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, okay, yeah, no, let me let me keep
Speaker 1: going with this. So what's interesting is the materials that
Speaker 1: he needed for a secret weapon. That's my Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is why I love this one. Normal. He said that
Speaker 1: he did make the weapon, but he was missing one
Speaker 1: vital piece and that was plutonium to thirty nine, you know,
Speaker 1: the same stuff that Doc Brown needed to make the
Speaker 1: Dolorean travel through time. Of course, what does the South
Speaker 1: African government do, But they want their plutonium so they
Speaker 1: can have their plane killing laser pleaser. They contact their
Speaker 1: good friends the North Koreans, who of course oblige them
Speaker 1: with this material have stockpile do and what the North
Speaker 1: Koreans do is they smuggle it to Taiwan and then
Speaker 1: it is smuggled on board s a A T nine
Speaker 1: five in the air quotes here guys of cargo, Yeah,
Speaker 1: like computers and stuff. Yeah, I wouldn't be hard. At
Speaker 1: the same time, well, you know the South African government
Speaker 1: they also need some other stuff, so they go ahead
Speaker 1: and decide to throw a little extra fuel for their
Speaker 1: missiles on at the same time ammonium percolate. They go ahead,
Speaker 1: and you save when you bundle things like him. Here's
Speaker 1: here's where where mechanics story goes even is where ice
Speaker 1: I say goes pretty far out there is he says,
Speaker 1: and this is completely according to him, is that somehow
Speaker 1: the United Nations and the International Monetary Fund, who of
Speaker 1: course wanted to take down this Africa South African government,
Speaker 1: figured out what was going on and deciding that well,
Speaker 1: this would be a great blow against their government and
Speaker 1: with off him from getting this stuff. Shoot the plane
Speaker 1: out of the sky. Yes, I'm leaving the shout out
Speaker 1: of the sky. They didn't just like leave an inscendi
Speaker 1: area on board with the timing device on. Somehow they
Speaker 1: took it out, I I added, shot it out of
Speaker 1: the sky. There, this is h Well, you know, I
Speaker 1: mean number one, the U N I mean they're they're
Speaker 1: massively incompetence, so they're and they're they're diabolical. Well there's
Speaker 1: that hugely diabolic Well, and the I AM if you
Speaker 1: don't necessarily and you know, you wonder why he included
Speaker 1: the IMF, because you don't necessarily include the IMP with
Speaker 1: this kind of conspiracy. But if you look at his website,
Speaker 1: he hates the I m F. Well, after the I
Speaker 1: m F in parentheses he has the Rothschilds in other words,
Speaker 1: in other words, it's the Jews once again. Yeah, so word, Yeah,
Speaker 1: don't take my word for it. Check his check his website. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the rothchilds. I looked at his website after reading some
Speaker 1: of this, and I really did it from afar, like
Speaker 1: reading the computer from the other side of the room,
Speaker 1: so I couldn't read it all kind of afar. It
Speaker 1: was just kind of that. I just kept it that
Speaker 1: much of a distance. Yeah, yeah, Okay, So I think
Speaker 1: this is not credible. I think about it is too.
Speaker 1: Is the if you're going to make rockets, and the
Speaker 1: military grade rockets are are uh, they are solid fueled
Speaker 1: and some some of them, not all of them, do
Speaker 1: use ammonium percolate. Yes, some of them do use ammonium
Speaker 1: percolate as as one part of the fuel. But the
Speaker 1: South African has actually had plenty of that stuff available
Speaker 1: bagistically they and we're going to talk about that briefly
Speaker 1: here here shortly so which you know what, let's go
Speaker 1: ahead and move into the smuggled board section because this
Speaker 1: is where it's what got smuggled aboard and we'll just
Speaker 1: keep talking about that because that's what's the rocket propellant. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so this is smuggled the board in the cargo or
Speaker 1: smuggled the board by a passenger smuggle board in the
Speaker 1: cargo section is where is? Where is? The way I
Speaker 1: understood the to be Joey talked about. It's you know,
Speaker 1: ammonium percolate is a rocket propellant. It's you might have
Speaker 1: heard of it before. It's the stuff that NASA really
Speaker 1: likes to use because it gives you your bang for
Speaker 1: your buck. They used it a lot on rockets, and
Speaker 1: it is great for surface to air missiles and surface
Speaker 1: to air, air to surface and air to air. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they use them in all those things. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: a it's a trifecta. Really, it's great stuff. But the
Speaker 1: thing is, like joe said, they can make it locally.
Speaker 1: Even today I was. I searched the web and there
Speaker 1: are companies in South Africa who talk about the fact
Speaker 1: that they have this stuff readily available on the list somewhere.
Speaker 1: I'm totally on the list. So my question is, why
Speaker 1: in the hell would they bring it in from an
Speaker 1: outside source that they added domestically. That makes no sense whatsoever,
Speaker 1: especially on an airplane. I mean something like that you're
Speaker 1: gonna get in quantity and you're gonna want to bring
Speaker 1: it in by ship if you're bringing it in at all, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna have palletts worth pallette work doesn't make
Speaker 1: any sense. It's not even if it was an entire
Speaker 1: palette of the stuff, it's still not even even that
Speaker 1: entire cargo hold full of that stuff is like, it's
Speaker 1: like it's dumb. That's a dumb way to ship. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe that's not not worth it. Let's okay, So we're
Speaker 1: gonna move on to what I think is probably my
Speaker 1: favorite thing that got smuggled on board into the cargo
Speaker 1: section of Sad Mercury. Yeah. I was actually thinking we
Speaker 1: should do an episode on Red Mercury. Yeah, it's that's
Speaker 1: it's interesting that this Red Mercury is really a thing.
Speaker 1: It's it's supposed it's not really what I mean, it's
Speaker 1: really a thing, and that a lot of people believe
Speaker 1: in it. Let me let me, let me explain. I
Speaker 1: believe it's the planet. Yeah, anybody who not the planet?
Speaker 1: Oh what are we talking about? Then? Okay, here's what
Speaker 1: we're talking about. Smuggle planet onto a cargon. I thought
Speaker 1: it was a little on that'sies, okay. Supposedly red mercury
Speaker 1: is a super potent nuclear material that, by the way,
Speaker 1: is never quite materialized. Um, it's I'm just gonna quote
Speaker 1: the Internet on this. I'm just gonna do it. It's
Speaker 1: a hoax substance of uncertain composition purportedly used in the
Speaker 1: creation of nuclear bombs as well as a variety of
Speaker 1: unrelent unrelated weapons systems. Yeah, so like that's what we
Speaker 1: get from the aliens, right, Yeah, yeah, I mean actually
Speaker 1: had the definition of what it can do really varies
Speaker 1: a lot. It's huge from it is nuclear grade too.
Speaker 1: It is just a great explosive, like it is all
Speaker 1: over the map. And what I really love is that
Speaker 1: the times that people have said they had it, it
Speaker 1: has been determined that, yeah, it was just reddish colored
Speaker 1: stuff dirt, food die or something like that, and it
Speaker 1: was red powder. You know. It's from all accounts that
Speaker 1: I can get. It's not real, so, but it is
Speaker 1: something that you will hear. It was supposedly in the
Speaker 1: cargo hold of the plane. Yeah, I don't know, because
Speaker 1: you know, it's just a little too pad. I think
Speaker 1: it does exist, just kidding. Coming soon Joe's episode on
Speaker 1: Red Mercury. Well, now, did you see the Star Trek reboots,
Speaker 1: which one the first one where where they did the
Speaker 1: whole reboot and everything and Spot goes back and the
Speaker 1: spot ship is powered by some red thing. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: that that red stuff that he's going to drop into
Speaker 1: the sun to save, to save the planet and everything,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't Maybe it was that stuff. Maybe, I
Speaker 1: don't know, probably much too much TV Joe, that's a movie. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's let's keep going. The next thing that we have
Speaker 1: on the list of what was in the cargo hold
Speaker 1: um and was smuggled on board is active carbon or
Speaker 1: chark hole like activated charcoal. Yeah, like activated or active active.
Speaker 1: I thought it was activated well, activated charcoal like you
Speaker 1: take as a supplement to like calm your stomach. So
Speaker 1: I am guessing not that, Probably not that, but it's anyway,
Speaker 1: it's a version of it's carbon. It's a very porous
Speaker 1: substance that when it catches fire, it catches fire very well.
Speaker 1: It's a really good accelerate and it burns hot and fast. Uh.
Speaker 1: This stuff is important. It has a little bit of
Speaker 1: credence because if it was in pr and it is
Speaker 1: this three hundred what the heck did I Oh, it's
Speaker 1: it's three grams of this stuff by the way is
Speaker 1: what they say was on there it different places on
Speaker 1: the internet, mostly probably all stemming from one location that
Speaker 1: it did not track down the initial source of this.
Speaker 1: But theory, and and this is the thing, is that
Speaker 1: something like this I think, you know, you apply a
Speaker 1: flame to it, then yeah, it'll catch fire. Flames have
Speaker 1: to come from somewhere, absolutely right. And that's that's the
Speaker 1: thing about about the whole thing about the low volume
Speaker 1: or the high surface to volume ratio is that does
Speaker 1: make from more flammability, which is why you're not allowed
Speaker 1: to smoke cigarettes and like say grain silos, because there's
Speaker 1: so much dust in the air, you can actually causing
Speaker 1: catch the dust on fire. But there's a flame. But
Speaker 1: there has to be a flame, yea or right. So
Speaker 1: that's that is a kind of a big red X
Speaker 1: on this one because we don't know what caught it
Speaker 1: on fire. It's just that this theory holds that basically
Speaker 1: something caught fire, and then this stuff caught on fire
Speaker 1: because of it and because of the high surface area,
Speaker 1: burned quite hot and quite fast, and that's where everything
Speaker 1: came from from there, Why that was packed in with
Speaker 1: a bunch of computers, I have no idea why somebody
Speaker 1: was standing next to it smoking a cigarette or something,
Speaker 1: and now they're another mystery. I believe that at that
Speaker 1: time it was still legal to smoke on airplanes, But yeah,
Speaker 1: I totally was. You would think, I mean, you'd be
Speaker 1: strategic in your packing too at that point too. Right,
Speaker 1: if you have something that's super volatile and like really slim,
Speaker 1: well you stick it below in the cargo area. You
Speaker 1: don't stick it above where a passenger might accidentally maybe
Speaker 1: possibly want er into, right, You would would you would
Speaker 1: think I couldn't just wander into the cargo hold that
Speaker 1: crew knew how to get in there. But I'm just
Speaker 1: I'm just just because you said it could be a
Speaker 1: passenger back there smoking there, I mean they couldn't just
Speaker 1: the door. It's not just a door. There was webbing
Speaker 1: and stuff. I'm pretty sure it was locked. You couldn't
Speaker 1: just wander in there. Well, it was locked. You know,
Speaker 1: nobody can never get through a locked door. Let's never
Speaker 1: get unlocked on accident or anything. Never. I just had
Speaker 1: this metal picture of one of the crew going back
Speaker 1: there and smoking a cigarette, and I just like flicking
Speaker 1: a cigarette off into the corner of the cargo hold
Speaker 1: and heading back after the cockpit. Oh God, that lady
Speaker 1: in three B. She keeps hitting the stewardess button. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's move on from there. We're going to move to
Speaker 1: the next thing that might have been in the cargo hold,
Speaker 1: and that is fireworks. Okay. Fireworks, says we all know,
Speaker 1: are very combustible, and they're very They're unstable, like there's
Speaker 1: dune powder in there something, which is why you're not
Speaker 1: supposed to take them on airplanes because they can catch
Speaker 1: fire quite rapidly. It could be as simple as it was.
Speaker 1: I've seen it as places as let's say it was
Speaker 1: just sparklers. So let's say it was bundle, a bundle
Speaker 1: of sparklers together sitting in the back of a plane.
Speaker 1: And if they're stacked, they're like logs stacked on top
Speaker 1: of each other. The vibration over hours is going to
Speaker 1: create friction, which is going to create heat, which could
Speaker 1: eventually set one of them off. Is that a real thing?
Speaker 1: Is that? Is there? Asked the same question, Is there
Speaker 1: any documented instance that has ever happened? There's not. There's not,
Speaker 1: because this is the only rational way that I can
Speaker 1: come up with that a firework could have caused it
Speaker 1: was the fire in the back of this plane. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I mean those things are actually pretty stable. I
Speaker 1: mean it's it's you actually have to take a flame
Speaker 1: to them. Well, but even then nine and a half
Speaker 1: hours of vibrations, it could happen. Think about it, is
Speaker 1: that sparkler should transport at all around the country and
Speaker 1: trucks and planes and everything like that, and as far
Speaker 1: as I know, they don't, they don't self ignite. They're well,
Speaker 1: I mean imagine I wish everybody could see the look
Speaker 1: I just gave Steve, because they was good. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: having a hard time buying this. But you are you
Speaker 1: are you going to cover the rocket theory? Well, well
Speaker 1: go for it. Well yeah, I mean they're there are
Speaker 1: people saying that it wasn't just ammonium percolate or whatever
Speaker 1: it was like, or just rocket fuel. It was actually
Speaker 1: complete rockets like air to air missiles, air to surface missiles,
Speaker 1: because I would those still have just like randomly exploded,
Speaker 1: I mean, wouldn't been noted by the surprise inspection. Well
Speaker 1: unless they were. I mean, imagine what you have crates
Speaker 1: of these things and then and then what you've done
Speaker 1: as you've glued computers to the outside of the crate
Speaker 1: and then wrapped it all in like plastic. I can
Speaker 1: see Joe's Joe right now is is going through his
Speaker 1: head o case. So I've used the hot glue gun
Speaker 1: and I've glued this computer to that computer to make
Speaker 1: wall like their hot glue gun together. Is that how
Speaker 1: this goes? I mean, I'm not mocking you trying to understand,
Speaker 1: and I mean it's it's just that that that theory
Speaker 1: has been put out there is that they were completed
Speaker 1: weapons on board, that they were actually rockets on board. Again,
Speaker 1: they were smuggling again and again it makes no sense
Speaker 1: because you would want to smuggle those by ship, not
Speaker 1: by not by aircraft. And they had the ability to
Speaker 1: manufacture this stuff on their own. Yeah, they totally did.
Speaker 1: They did manufacture that stuff. Yeah, I'm not just not
Speaker 1: just to feel, but the rockets themselves actually seven they
Speaker 1: put in service on a nifty little laser guy at
Speaker 1: the anti anti tank rocket. And so the South African
Speaker 1: has had a pretty good munitions industry that they even
Speaker 1: had nuclear capability of one points. So yeah, they had
Speaker 1: that reported. They had six devices before they gave up
Speaker 1: control of the country. They dismantled them. But yeah, but
Speaker 1: but the point is, would you fly a pallate of
Speaker 1: missiles if you could make them yourself. Well, it's a
Speaker 1: matter of actually they were importing stuff. I mean, some
Speaker 1: of the missiles that they use they imported from France, Israel,
Speaker 1: the US at least before the embargo, probably after the
Speaker 1: embargo to stealthily, stealthily, you know, they probably could do that.
Speaker 1: But again, number one, you'd want to bring them in
Speaker 1: by different means because you don't want to import those
Speaker 1: things two or three at a time. And six yeah,
Speaker 1: just cost yeah yeah, And and the other thing. The
Speaker 1: other thing is as if again, if it was a rocket,
Speaker 1: liquid or excuse me, solid fuel, rockets are very stable.
Speaker 1: You need to actually ignite those things. Yeah, that's why
Speaker 1: we put them on ships and float them around everywhere,
Speaker 1: because we know they're not just going to randomly go
Speaker 1: on Like we throw them in planes that are going
Speaker 1: to like be flying for lots and lots of hours.
Speaker 1: And because as we know, they're not going to just
Speaker 1: I mean even if the vibration theory with the smart
Speaker 1: pers or whatever, I mean that they are made to
Speaker 1: go on things that vibrate for lots and lots of
Speaker 1: hours under extreme force like that should be totally normally
Speaker 1: should be stable enough to withstand that. And also, by
Speaker 1: the way, if it wants to solid fuel rocket goes off.
Speaker 1: Once it starts going, it can't be shut down. It
Speaker 1: just burns until all the fuel is gone and putting
Speaker 1: out losses rust. And by the way, I like, from
Speaker 1: what I might understand, the temperature of the flames and
Speaker 1: these things is like between four thousand degrees fahrenheit, and
Speaker 1: so the entire every the context of the entire hold
Speaker 1: would have been on fire. Yeah, everything, all of the
Speaker 1: metal would have been, the whole thing melted into a
Speaker 1: funny there's a giant and hole in the metal decking
Speaker 1: of this play. I'm more interested in a little little
Speaker 1: hot spot on the pus. Yeah, it's so I think
Speaker 1: we can eliminate the rockets created weapons. Okay, but you
Speaker 1: know another theory. This theory seems a little more plausible.
Speaker 1: Oh you're talking about the wire yeah, yeah, the faulty
Speaker 1: wire wing yeah, and the flammable installation. Yeah. Okay, let's
Speaker 1: let's talk about this theory. Because I actually have to
Speaker 1: to give credit to a guy. His name is Mark D.
Speaker 1: Young for putting all the pieces together for this. He
Speaker 1: broke up a pretty good article on it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: read that and I thought it was really compelling. It's
Speaker 1: uh yeah and completely convincing. Yeah, he really does. He
Speaker 1: really does a good job. This guy seems to actually
Speaker 1: know what he's talking about. He really does. In a nutshell.
Speaker 1: Here's how this theory works is in the seventies and eighties,
Speaker 1: there was a thin type of wiring that was being
Speaker 1: used the most passenger airlines and it was known as
Speaker 1: m I L DASH W DASH eight one three eight one,
Speaker 1: the clever name. Yes, yeah, it's totally easy. Yeah. In
Speaker 1: the industry, it was referred to as captain k A
Speaker 1: P T O N. I'm gonna call it capta on uh.
Speaker 1: And it was thought to be extremely durable. But it
Speaker 1: turns out that after several years, the rubber plastic coating
Speaker 1: it's a polytomide, that's what it is, it was found
Speaker 1: to crack really easily. And um, okay, what's the word.
Speaker 1: It's it's frequently, isn't the word? There is? Tons and
Speaker 1: tons and tons of cracking like crazy. Yes, that's what
Speaker 1: that's the word that I'm looking for. It would it
Speaker 1: would be coated in cracks. I don't know. I gotta
Speaker 1: be honest with you. I don't think I knew what
Speaker 1: crazing meant. So oh it's you know, like when you
Speaker 1: see porcelain and stuff like that. So all the spiderweb
Speaker 1: fine fine layers and layers of fine cracks would call
Speaker 1: prolifically well, those crap unfortunately weren't very apparent because the
Speaker 1: wires are so small. Yeah, the wire itself, you need
Speaker 1: to understand, is about as thick as several strands of
Speaker 1: human hair. So it's a really really thin wire within
Speaker 1: the coating on top. So it's hard to tell if
Speaker 1: it's cracked. And that's a bad thing because it was
Speaker 1: discovered that when the insulation that that coating on the
Speaker 1: wire would crack and it was exposed to a damp
Speaker 1: or a human environment like say the inside of a
Speaker 1: plane after nine and a half hours with nearly a
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty people breathing moisture out um, it would,
Speaker 1: uh what is called wet arcing would happen. Although I
Speaker 1: have to say an airplane is not it's superhuman. I
Speaker 1: don't think of it as a human environment, but it
Speaker 1: is damp. I mean, I've been on airplanes where you
Speaker 1: can see condensation on the inside of the glass on
Speaker 1: your window. Don't know what was going on back in
Speaker 1: the back in the hold. I don't know if the
Speaker 1: hold was heated or not. Well, if it was, if
Speaker 1: it was not pressurized, it was probably cooler, so there
Speaker 1: was probably it was going It would be cooler back
Speaker 1: there because remember it's lower pressure, so it would be
Speaker 1: a lower pressure, so things would accumulate back there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would be. I can picture some condensation going on
Speaker 1: back there. So let me you know. Actually, I'm not
Speaker 1: good enough at the science to explain this, so I
Speaker 1: cheated and I found somebody from Harvard. This is totally
Speaker 1: This is totally from Harvard. Joe, can you read this? Actually,
Speaker 1: you you sound like Harvard guy smart pants with the
Speaker 1: German accent. I would just like you to use your
Speaker 1: regular voice. Okay, al right, okay. Quote. Electrical wet wire
Speaker 1: art tracking is a phenomenon that has been known for
Speaker 1: many years. This can occur when leakage currents on a
Speaker 1: wet installation surface are great enough to vaporize and moisture,
Speaker 1: resulting in the formation of dry spots. These dry spots
Speaker 1: offer a high amount of resistance to current flow. In
Speaker 1: turn and induced voltage will develop across these spots and
Speaker 1: result in the occurrence of small surface discharges. These discharges
Speaker 1: produced highly localized temperatures on the order of one thousand
Speaker 1: degrees celsius slashes fahrenheit, which is kind of hot. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: back to the quote. Temperatures of this magnitude will cause
Speaker 1: thermal degradation of the insulation material, the nature of which
Speaker 1: depends on the insulation of material used. Unquote simple version.
Speaker 1: What arcing is very bad. It creates extremely hot spots
Speaker 1: when it happens, which when combined with flammable material, is
Speaker 1: a huge problem, especially when it's on an airplane. And
Speaker 1: here's something else that folks need to know is again,
Speaker 1: in the seventies and eighties, there was an insulation being
Speaker 1: used on airplanes. It was called it's metalized my lar,
Speaker 1: which really looks like fiberglass installation wrapped in tinfoil milars.
Speaker 1: Just it's like what you see balloons. Yeah, exactly. Well,
Speaker 1: it turns out that they thought that this stuff was
Speaker 1: extremely fire resistant, and when it's exposed to an instantly
Speaker 1: obscenely hot point of contact, it's totally, totally flammable. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like a lower lower temperatures. Yeah, it didn't catch
Speaker 1: fire at all. Yeah, it turns out that. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: throw something that is blistering hot next to it and
Speaker 1: the thing goes up like a piece of paper something
Speaker 1: that's centigrade. But in fairness, most things will catch fire
Speaker 1: at a thousand degrees c that's true, which is why
Speaker 1: it is hard to find, and that's why they had
Speaker 1: to find stuff that wasn't And unfortunately, for a decade
Speaker 1: or two they were packing airplanes with this stuff, thinking
Speaker 1: that it was resistant to fires, when in fact it was, well,
Speaker 1: it was resistant to most normal fire. Yeah it was,
Speaker 1: Joe said. Some idiot flicked his cigarette into the corner
Speaker 1: and it caught the carpet on fire. The insulation probably
Speaker 1: wouldn't have burnt. And unfairness, you got it was much
Speaker 1: much better than the stuff that was made out of
Speaker 1: ammonium percolate that it replaced. Yeah, that thing. But okay,
Speaker 1: back to here, do you remember pr the palette that
Speaker 1: is in question that the flame would supposedly have taken place. Yes, Well,
Speaker 1: according to the work that Mark Young has done, he
Speaker 1: has figured out that there was a main wiring path
Speaker 1: that ran above pr and that wiring path used this
Speaker 1: wire that the captain wiring, and it was also underneath
Speaker 1: or directly on top of insulation. So if wet arcing
Speaker 1: took place, it would have caught that insulation on fire.
Speaker 1: That insulation would have eventually burned enough to fall on
Speaker 1: top of the palette, which would have kept the fire
Speaker 1: above the deck of the plane, which would explain you know,
Speaker 1: it's that super hot, that slag is going to happen
Speaker 1: in that super high temperature, and then the fire is
Speaker 1: going to continue to burn upwards. Right there. It really
Speaker 1: kind of nicely bundles up a bunch of the evidence
Speaker 1: we have for whearing what the fire did, particularly if
Speaker 1: it started burning down a little bit. If it's starting
Speaker 1: to burn into those plastics, the fumes that are coming
Speaker 1: off of that. You know then you've ever thrown plastic
Speaker 1: into like a campfire or whatever, Yeah, and it gets
Speaker 1: like really really smoky and like you start so you know,
Speaker 1: if that's starting to burn like a little bit, it's
Speaker 1: going to really complicate things a lot. So yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a good put some toxic fumes into the rest of
Speaker 1: the plane. The other thing, but the thing about the
Speaker 1: one thing I wanted to mention too, is it you
Speaker 1: look at if you look at his his website that
Speaker 1: has he his arguments on it, he has he has
Speaker 1: drawings of exactly where that wiring course was precisely corresponds
Speaker 1: to the place where all he does it does and no,
Speaker 1: nobody has officially reinvestigated it, but he makes a really
Speaker 1: good argument. Is argument also does explain something else which
Speaker 1: is on the voice data recorder they talk about the
Speaker 1: crew talks about to the tower, the fact that they're
Speaker 1: having problems with their electronics. Well, if their main wiring
Speaker 1: path is on fire, that's going to screw up the electronics.
Speaker 1: So it totally totally makes sense. Yeah, they were. They
Speaker 1: were like circuit breakers were popping. Yeah, then that sound
Speaker 1: got picked up on the cockpit voice recording he did,
Speaker 1: and I can just see that as as wires melted together,
Speaker 1: and you know, you got shorts and you're going to
Speaker 1: make parts and shorts and things, and circuit breakers are
Speaker 1: going to do what they're They're gonna start snapping and
Speaker 1: you can't turn them back on. It's not like your
Speaker 1: house where you blow a fuse and you just go
Speaker 1: turn it back on. It doesn't work. Like that on
Speaker 1: the plane because the wire is gone completely gone. It
Speaker 1: makes me wonder if whether they would have you even
Speaker 1: been able to land the plane, even if the crew
Speaker 1: had survived in the plane to remain remained intact, what
Speaker 1: they've been able to get the landing year down for? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, that's a that's a really good question, because
Speaker 1: there is Joe. You may remember the exact wording for this,
Speaker 1: but I can't. Is that planes would there used to
Speaker 1: be fly by wire where all the controls were done
Speaker 1: by wire and then you know, like cables, and then
Speaker 1: I can't remember what it is when it's done by electronics.
Speaker 1: But those big planes are not fly by wire. They
Speaker 1: are totally done by electrical signals turning everything on and on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not so. I think that they may not have been.
Speaker 1: The best they probably could have done was actually bellied
Speaker 1: down on the runway. If they've been able to come in, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, felly down is better than like torpedoed into
Speaker 1: the water, that's true. I mean I'm saying to ask
Speaker 1: your question, could they even got the landing gear down?
Speaker 1: Probably not. I don't think they You know, if you're
Speaker 1: actually if you work for an airline and you're on
Speaker 1: some long haul thing and you're listening to us to
Speaker 1: your earbuds where you're too along over the Pacific to
Speaker 1: give us a call. But I'm thinking that there has
Speaker 1: to be some sort of manual hydraulic backup, but lowering
Speaker 1: the landing gears and operating the controls. There has to be,
Speaker 1: you know, it would be insane to do anything else.
Speaker 1: As again, this always happens to us. We've all thought
Speaker 1: about this, but none of us took the time to
Speaker 1: look because it was the last minute thought. I didn't
Speaker 1: until just now. That's what I'm saying. My hand I
Speaker 1: kind of new and this is too much googling for
Speaker 1: me to do on the fly. It's not like looking
Speaker 1: up like what's a galleon? Oh it's Harry Potter thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah it's not the thing. Yeah, I'll call Bowing tomorrow
Speaker 1: and find out. All right, green one, I believe you will.
Speaker 1: Let's move to our last theory, because we believe it
Speaker 1: or not, we're, you know, way into this, and we
Speaker 1: still got one more theory. Yeah, said this was going
Speaker 1: to be a short one. No, no, no, you saw
Speaker 1: the script. I've been writting bigger and bigger scripts. I'm
Speaker 1: working on a book, I know. Yeah, really that we
Speaker 1: might actually come out with that thinking sideways book. Yeah no,
Speaker 1: because we get sued because it's full of copy paste,
Speaker 1: wouldn't that? Now Wikipedia is gonna sue us. Let's move on, though,
Speaker 1: to our next one, which our next theory is based
Speaker 1: on chemical oxygen generators. And we've talked about this a
Speaker 1: little bit in the very beginning. We threw it around,
Speaker 1: though we didn't explain what was going on. So let
Speaker 1: me explain what we're talking about here. You've been on
Speaker 1: a plane, you've seen the steward or steward is. Explain
Speaker 1: how the oxygen mask drop, and then you're supposed to
Speaker 1: put your own mask on before you assist the elderly
Speaker 1: or children. Well, I foolishly, for a long long time,
Speaker 1: just presumed that there was some giant canna stir of
Speaker 1: air on the plane that piped into those little rubber tubes.
Speaker 1: Absolutely not true, because it turns out a giant tank
Speaker 1: of air is stupidly heavy and you just can't be
Speaker 1: packing that around that That costs way too much fuel
Speaker 1: to lift up and down all the time when a
Speaker 1: plane flies. So instead, what they do is they generate
Speaker 1: oxygen in a chemical fashion. Uh, and there's a chemical
Speaker 1: way to store it, and there's a bunch of Evidently
Speaker 1: I had to read the science eight hundred times and
Speaker 1: I'm still not positive how this works. But there's potassium
Speaker 1: chlorate and sodium chlorate are rich in oxygen, and when
Speaker 1: put under the right um circumstances or pressure situations, they
Speaker 1: will give up oxygen, much like a sponge wood that
Speaker 1: was full of water. If you s ease it, they
Speaker 1: just give off oxygen, which is pure, which is great
Speaker 1: when you want to pump it out to people because
Speaker 1: it is in a small pellet or cylinder form, so
Speaker 1: it's something that's very small and very light, and it
Speaker 1: just takes either a chemical reaction or a friction reaction
Speaker 1: to make this stuff activate. It doesn't actually burn so much.
Speaker 1: It's more of a decomposition degradation of the material, but
Speaker 1: that's what puts out all the oxygen. But that process
Speaker 1: does generate a bunch of heat. It's like, yeah, it's like, well,
Speaker 1: actually even burning, that's that's basically if you burn a
Speaker 1: piece of wood, that's oxidation. Yeah, And that's yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's what it is. You're breaking this material down and
Speaker 1: one of its main by products turns out to be
Speaker 1: O two and the other byproducts lots of heat. Lots
Speaker 1: of heat. So the O two will go into your
Speaker 1: little mask and it's super lightweight and it's easy to
Speaker 1: transport and you get to breathe if your oxy your
Speaker 1: mask comes down, Yes you Okay, not Joe. Joe didn't
Speaker 1: put on his mask because we've heard him talking me either,
Speaker 1: because I keep gabbing on but um. But the point
Speaker 1: is they're very light, but they do generate a bunch
Speaker 1: of heat. The problem with them is that they can,
Speaker 1: and they have in the past ignited things that were
Speaker 1: near them. They generate that much heat in their their
Speaker 1: degradation process. Uh, there's a there's a what is it's
Speaker 1: it's value jet flight five nine two. This was it
Speaker 1: crashed ten minutes after takeoff. And what they figured out
Speaker 1: was that there were chemical action generators that were in
Speaker 1: were loaded on the plane. They were they were loaded
Speaker 1: in the cargo hold and improperly stowed, and they shouldn't
Speaker 1: have been there in the first place, and so they
Speaker 1: went off and they generated a boatload of heat, which
Speaker 1: caused the plane to catch on fire and go down.
Speaker 1: Almost immediately as whereas on our on our they would
Speaker 1: have all been stowed in the correct places. It's not
Speaker 1: like they were they weren't halling a cargo of these things.
Speaker 1: But if this plane is meant to potentially have passengers
Speaker 1: in the area where the cargo is, that means there
Speaker 1: had to have been some kind of oxygen delivery system
Speaker 1: back there. It would have been, you know, in the
Speaker 1: ceiling cavity somewhere, because that's where the chemical action generator
Speaker 1: I presume would have been stored. I may be wrong
Speaker 1: on that, but all I can think what this theory
Speaker 1: is going for is that either the oxygen generator was
Speaker 1: ignited improperly through you know, friction can ignite them. That
Speaker 1: is one of the method that's used to ignite them.
Speaker 1: Friction could have set it off which created all that
Speaker 1: heat and oh, by the way, it's spewing oxygen out
Speaker 1: onto the fire is created, which would make it burn
Speaker 1: super hot. Or the oxygen generator went off if it's
Speaker 1: not in that ceiling area. Again, I don't know where
Speaker 1: they are on the seven four seven, but the oxygen
Speaker 1: would have been in that overhead compartment because that's where
Speaker 1: it has to drop out. Of which means that there
Speaker 1: would have been a massive amount of pure o two
Speaker 1: next to what anything that could have caught on fire
Speaker 1: that then would subsequently burn obscenely fast and hot. I'm
Speaker 1: not pictures of the insides of these holes, and I
Speaker 1: haven't seen anything that even resembles an oxygen breathing apparatus
Speaker 1: in there. See. That was the thing, is that I
Speaker 1: know that the you know when you look at your plane,
Speaker 1: you know there's the overhead um what is the overhead
Speaker 1: thing where you put your bags? Yeah, you know where
Speaker 1: the guy with the giant wheelie bags is a huge
Speaker 1: bag that should have never been in the the You
Speaker 1: can tell we've all traveled by area. Yes, yes, I
Speaker 1: have that jack beat you know, and then try and
Speaker 1: so those overhead bins wouldn't be there. But the if
Speaker 1: the overhead bins were to be returned for seating, there
Speaker 1: has to be somewhere that the oxygen mass setup is
Speaker 1: plugged into. Would you agree with that? So somewhere in
Speaker 1: there that system has to be, which is where this
Speaker 1: whole thing is saying that. Well, then that it's spewing
Speaker 1: that purou to, which is then feeding the fire. I
Speaker 1: don't I don't put a whole lot of creedence in
Speaker 1: this particular one. I think that it's a bit of
Speaker 1: a stretch. I think that it's very interesting and it's
Speaker 1: really interest thing because of the fact that we do
Speaker 1: know that the chemical oxen generators caused planes to go
Speaker 1: down in the past. They have. But yeah, is it
Speaker 1: a perfect fit. No, but it kind of better than
Speaker 1: than red mercury. Oh yeah. I think the faulty wiring
Speaker 1: is probably the culprit in this case. And I think
Speaker 1: that marketing is correct and that the the investigation should
Speaker 1: be reopened because it's time to put a lot of
Speaker 1: these rumors to rest because there's he I like his
Speaker 1: theory the best simply because it ties things together so well, yeah,
Speaker 1: it really does, and he may be wrong, but he
Speaker 1: has done the best job of making a complete package
Speaker 1: out of it. Oh yeah, it's absolutely every everything makes sense.
Speaker 1: It makes a complete sense, which is compelling to the
Speaker 1: oxygen apparatus really still doesn't quite make sense, because you know,
Speaker 1: how did it get started? You know again we got
Speaker 1: we're back to that. Yeah, we're back to that is
Speaker 1: the That's a big question for a lot of us,
Speaker 1: is I mean, everything is how did this fire start
Speaker 1: and the only one who's who has come up with
Speaker 1: a very plausible way for the fireston. Yeah. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it totally makes sense. Yeah, um, I do want to that's,
Speaker 1: by the way, the end of all of our theories.
Speaker 1: But there is just one little bit I want to
Speaker 1: add at the end here. This is very simple, Devon.
Speaker 1: We're almost done. Stop googling. You're googling, right, you're not tweeting.
Speaker 1: The findings of this investigation did change a lot of
Speaker 1: things in the airline industry. Better fire suppression systems were introduced.
Speaker 1: They became a requirement and were introduced, and that of
Speaker 1: course added weight to planes, which made the comedy completely
Speaker 1: and totally obsolete. It went the way of the Dodo.
Speaker 1: You either have people on board or you don't. That's
Speaker 1: the way it happens now, which makes the most sense.
Speaker 1: I'm most comfortable with that. Yeah, although you know, it's
Speaker 1: really interesting. I was I just found out today. Is
Speaker 1: one of the major um FedEx or not you maybe
Speaker 1: it was UPS. I can't remember which one Brown whichever
Speaker 1: one it is, Okay, one of those and I don't
Speaker 1: remember which one it is, but one of those major
Speaker 1: companies that you know will fly packages back and forth
Speaker 1: cross the country, you know, same day air kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: There's actually a contract with the US government. All of
Speaker 1: their planes are set up to have the ability on
Speaker 1: that main deck like a regular airplane would that we
Speaker 1: would commercially fly to have seats plugged into them so
Speaker 1: that they can turn into troop transports. But that's different.
Speaker 1: Well no, it's just but this is a very interesting site.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it is interesting that they But but the comedy,
Speaker 1: the comedy went away. Let's speaking of great adaptations and planes.
Speaker 1: By the way, did I ever tell you about the
Speaker 1: Boeing actually came up with a concept for the seven
Speaker 1: forty seven as a cruise missile launcher. No, I'm serious,
Speaker 1: really really surprising that much. Really, yeah, it shouldn't, but
Speaker 1: it does. They did. They had they had a whole
Speaker 1: system set up, They had it all worked out. I mean,
Speaker 1: it wasn't It wasn't like they weren't ready to build
Speaker 1: a prototype. It was basically kind of a concept thing
Speaker 1: when they had drawings and stuff, and basically on the
Speaker 1: starboard side, at the aft part of the plane, there
Speaker 1: was going to be a door, a door a report
Speaker 1: that would open the side and on the inside they
Speaker 1: would have cruise missiles stowed on basically a rack that
Speaker 1: was kind of like a carousel that would move around,
Speaker 1: so it was kind of automn it was basically automated,
Speaker 1: and then they would they would move back to that
Speaker 1: that spot door would open. Obviously, this is this would
Speaker 1: probably usually be done at the lower altitudes where they
Speaker 1: could fly depressure out and then cruise missiles would basically
Speaker 1: be ejected out the side of the plane back there
Speaker 1: and then they would you know, light off and take
Speaker 1: off and build destroy things. And so this whole idea
Speaker 1: and that you could I don't know how many cruise
Speaker 1: missiles you could pack on with seven forty seven, but
Speaker 1: I bet it's a hell of a lot. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I personally don't think there's many pilots who would want
Speaker 1: to fly that plane based on the fact that it's
Speaker 1: that many cruise misses in the plane. Hey, what the hell?
Speaker 1: You know? I think a lot of plot but I
Speaker 1: and I personally I think the U. S. Guvernment should
Speaker 1: have taken them up on it, because basically it would
Speaker 1: have been a real cheap alternative to a lot of
Speaker 1: the stuff that we have, and and it really probably
Speaker 1: would have done the job just fine. But it's an
Speaker 1: honestly got true story. And if I can find the link,
Speaker 1: I will, I'll give it to book. I'll put on
Speaker 1: our Facebook so you guys can read about that little project. Awesome. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: since we're talking about Facebook and we're at the stand
Speaker 1: of the story, let's give everybody all of our linky
Speaker 1: links here. Our social media for Facebook, we have, of
Speaker 1: course the Facebook page and the Facebook group, so like
Speaker 1: the page, joined the group, a bunch of activity there.
Speaker 1: We are, of course on Twitter, so we are Thinking
Speaker 1: Sideways to drop the g in the middle. We tweet
Speaker 1: semi regularly at I tweet things I find on imger.
Speaker 1: Uh that what's going on with the Twitter account? Maybe? Okay? No,
Speaker 1: we have our website. That website is Thinking Sideways podcast
Speaker 1: dot com, where of course you can stream or download
Speaker 1: this or any other episode. The links to some of
Speaker 1: our research will be on there on the website for
Speaker 1: you to to kind of review for yourself, start the
Speaker 1: process for you if you want. Also, we have a
Speaker 1: facts page there. Yeah. If if you know you have
Speaker 1: a question about something, checked there first, Like if you're
Speaker 1: listening to our old episodes and wondering like what that
Speaker 1: weird whining noises. We use music like that. There's a
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff on the f a Q page. But
Speaker 1: now a lot of people do stream the show. There
Speaker 1: are still a bunch of people who get us through
Speaker 1: traditional sources like iTunes. If you're using iTunes, do take
Speaker 1: the time to leave a comment and a rating. We
Speaker 1: prefer the better ratings, higher rating. If you have a
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Speaker 1: by sending us an email. That email address is Thinking
Speaker 1: Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com. And we have a subreddit,
Speaker 1: so we've still the subreddit is still going strong. It
Speaker 1: is and last but not least, a couple of things
Speaker 1: that we've got on our website. We have a link
Speaker 1: to merch so there's merchandise that you can get if
Speaker 1: you want that there is. If you want to contribute
Speaker 1: to the show financially, you're more than welcome to and
Speaker 1: we do appreciate that. We've got the PayPal button on
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Speaker 1: com slash Thinking Sideways Patreon is more of a continual basis.
Speaker 1: Go on Patreon. We've got a video that explains it.
Speaker 1: It's totally optional. Guys. Again, we say this every week,
Speaker 1: but we appreciate it. We love it. But we are
Speaker 1: doing it because we like it and if you want
Speaker 1: to do it, we appreciate that. That's great. I think
Speaker 1: that's all the housekeeping. You anything else do you guys
Speaker 1: want to add to this particular episode now, short circuit,
Speaker 1: that's all. I don't care. Electrical, that's not true. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it was conspiracy, but that's you know, that's
Speaker 1: a great thing. All right, Well, I'm going to take off.
Speaker 1: I think it was squirrels. Squirrels in the fuselage. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they nibbled on the law I ring. Next thing. You know,
Speaker 1: it's all things called go to hell next week. So
Speaker 1: embarrassed right now,