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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercam. I'm a mother of four,

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Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger.

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Speaker 1: I'm a mother of two and soon to be three,

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Speaker 1: and a practicing physician. We are two working parents who

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Speaker 1: love our careers and our families. Welcome to best of

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Speaker 1: both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family,

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Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping

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Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get

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Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: This is Laura, and this is episode episode eighteen, where

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Speaker 1: we're talking maternity leave and transitioning back to work. We've

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Speaker 1: got a guest, Lauren Smith Brody, who will be joining

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Speaker 1: us for the main segment. But first, we are recording

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Speaker 1: this in November of twenty seventeen and airing it first

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Speaker 1: in early December of twenty seventeen, which is when Sarah

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Speaker 1: is due with baby number three. So how does maternity

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Speaker 1: leave ten to work for you? I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: number three for you, Sarah. Yeah, So this one should

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Speaker 1: be similar to my last one because I've been working

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Speaker 1: at the same place since then. The one prior to

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Speaker 1: that was during training during fellowship, but all of my

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Speaker 1: maternity leaves I've been lucky enough to be able to

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Speaker 1: cobble together close to twelve weeks. I think I did

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Speaker 1: take eleven or ten and a half with my last

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Speaker 1: one because I hadn't been working at my current workplace

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Speaker 1: quite long enough to qualify for FMLA yet. But the

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Speaker 1: other two were twelve, and they've been different in that,

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Speaker 1: you know, number one, when you're going from zero to

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Speaker 1: one kids, I found that to be an incredibly rocky transition,

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Speaker 1: as many do, and I also didn't have childcare. I

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Speaker 1: still have some really good memories of that time. A

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Speaker 1: lot of North Carolina walks into spring sunshine, and I

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Speaker 1: remember cooking dinner during naps. It was actually pretty peaceful.

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Speaker 1: My husband worked a lot, and then my second one,

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Speaker 1: I had our nanny because I had already hired her

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Speaker 1: knowing that I would need one and to help take

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Speaker 1: care of my other child. So that was really different

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Speaker 1: in that I had the benefit of childcare to help

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Speaker 1: out during the day, so I was able to take

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Speaker 1: naps and breaks. They were both really nice times. It's funny,

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Speaker 1: you know, the time that I'm more stressed about at

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Speaker 1: this juncture is that going back to work time, which

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Speaker 1: is why I'm so excited for our guests today who

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Speaker 1: wrote a book specifically about that. But my mattornity leaves

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Speaker 1: were pretty nice. I did do a little work, not

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Speaker 1: on my medical stuff, but I remember writing a series

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Speaker 1: of paid blog posts for Huggies, oddly enough during my

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Speaker 1: first maternity leave with Annabel, because we were in training

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Speaker 1: and I needed the cash and I was able to

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Speaker 1: buy a treadmill with that money, so it worked out.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty good. Yeah, so you did some work, you

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Speaker 1: managed to do something completely different. I think I also

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Speaker 1: finished a poster for a presentation that I gave, but

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Speaker 1: I didn't do any patient care type stuff because I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to open those floodgates. How about you, Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, working for your there's not the same. It's

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Speaker 1: just not the same at all, because I mean, I

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Speaker 1: work in a home office, so you know I'm here anyway,

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Speaker 1: So I would don't necessarily think of myself as having

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Speaker 1: taken maternity leaves per se, Like there's no demarcation of

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Speaker 1: when I was working when I was not. And did

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Speaker 1: some stuff in the hospital, but I didn't feel I

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Speaker 1: wasn't fully on I guess for a while, but I

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Speaker 1: mean the honest truth is, you know, the stuff I

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Speaker 1: do could be done around, you know, nursing a baby,

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Speaker 1: for instance, and I actually had child care for all

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Speaker 1: of it. I had a sitter for a few hours

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Speaker 1: a day pretty soon for the first one, because I

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Speaker 1: just realized, like, I don't know, I'm not so much

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Speaker 1: of a little, tiny baby person. I mean, I love babies, obviously,

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Speaker 1: I've had four of them, but it's not they're kind

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Speaker 1: of inert. It's just sitting there totally inert. And it's

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Speaker 1: so funny because I think I made a comment to

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Speaker 1: my husband that I spent my first maternity leave worried

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Speaker 1: about worrying about Annabel, and then I spent my second

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Speaker 1: attorney leave worried about Annabel, and then my third attorney

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Speaker 1: leave mostly worded about Annabel, little worried about camera, not

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Speaker 1: really worried about the baby. To be like, that's the

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Speaker 1: one that needs you in some ways the least they

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Speaker 1: need you biologically, absolutely, but the mental presence that's required

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Speaker 1: isn't so much. I do find the first three months

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Speaker 1: to be a little bit physically taxing, so I am

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Speaker 1: glad I get that time at home. But I could

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Speaker 1: see why if you were able to work from home

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Speaker 1: and kind of a comfortable position at your own pace,

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Speaker 1: and you had that benefit of not having to pump,

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Speaker 1: so that they were just bringing you the baby, how

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Speaker 1: you could do like a gradual ramp in rather than

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Speaker 1: a cut beginning. And yeah, that's exactly what I did.

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Speaker 1: And because I had that ability to have the baby

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Speaker 1: just come see me, you know, not having to pump

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Speaker 1: this mind, I still did pump, just to get a

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Speaker 1: little bit ahead of the game. Like by my second baby,

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Speaker 1: I knew to do that, to pump an extra bottle

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Speaker 1: a day, so I set my you know, milk supply

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Speaker 1: at a higher level than what the baby actually required,

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Speaker 1: so that I could build up a stash. But that's

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Speaker 1: again maybe tm I but no, I don't know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, maybe there are some women who

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Speaker 1: are self employed by of a different approach to it.

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Speaker 1: But you spend all this time building the business, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of it is client based. You don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: want to not do it. My fourth baby, I did. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I had a regular gig with Fast Company during that time,

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Speaker 1: and they were very amenable to me just not posting

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Speaker 1: anything for I think it was like six weeks I

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Speaker 1: just did not post anything, and obviously I don't get

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Speaker 1: paid for it either, But they were fine with me

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Speaker 1: starting again after that, so I guess in some ways

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Speaker 1: there was a bit of a maturnity beef, but that's

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Speaker 1: as much as it ever was for me. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: so different. Yeah, but corporate versus working for yourself, I

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Speaker 1: think there are definitely demarcations there. For me, the big

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Speaker 1: difference between one and two really was that was the childcare.

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Speaker 1: So I'm really excited to experience it in that lucky

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Speaker 1: way again, where I do have some help during the day,

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Speaker 1: makes it so much easier to develop routines and take

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Speaker 1: some time for myself. I even have started to think

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Speaker 1: about some other projects. I just sort of can't help myself.

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Speaker 1: But we'll see how that goes. It really depends on

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Speaker 1: how well this baby sleeps, too, Yeah, but I mean

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Speaker 1: not everyone. If they sleep well, if they sleep decently,

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Speaker 1: and if you have the childcare, I mean, you don't

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Speaker 1: want to expect too much from yourself, I guess in

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Speaker 1: the first few days, but or first few weeks necessarily,

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Speaker 1: but there is some time and so I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: people want to do things like take walks or start

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Speaker 1: running again or you know. I actually wrote the e

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Speaker 1: book that I write What the most Successful People Do

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Speaker 1: Before Breakfast. I wrote that when my third child was

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Speaker 1: probably about four or five weeks old. I just you know,

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Speaker 1: I had I had not taken on a lot of

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Speaker 1: immediate projects, I think during that time because of you know,

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Speaker 1: having a newborn. So I didn't have depressing deadlines right then.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, oh, write, there's something else, And

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Speaker 1: so that wound up being a good use of the

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Speaker 1: time for me. That's awesome. Yeah, the routines are key.

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Speaker 1: I definitely, Oh, I'm excited to try my time during this.

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Speaker 1: I want to be great that I wait to see

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Speaker 1: what life is. I want to be able to see

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Speaker 1: how the baby sleep evolves and sort of, you know,

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Speaker 1: monitor my own structure of the days as things get

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Speaker 1: a little bit more more structured. Maybe we'll see. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure I'm tempting fate right now, I'm going to have

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Speaker 1: like a refluxy non napping hopefully don't what we'll see.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, by the time this air, she may be here.

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Speaker 1: Although this does air four days before my official due dates,

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Speaker 1: so we shall see. We shall see. So we are

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Speaker 1: so excited to welcome to best of both worlds. Lauren

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Speaker 1: Smith Brodie she wrote a great book called The Fifth Trimester.

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Speaker 1: She'll explain what that is in a minute. She is

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Speaker 1: also the former executive editor of Glamour magazine and a

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Speaker 1: mom of two boys, Right, Lauren, Yes, they are six

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Speaker 1: and nine, six and nine wonderful, so matching somewhat up

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Speaker 1: with mine. So tell us about this phrase, the fifth trimester.

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Speaker 1: How did that come to you? So it was actually

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Speaker 1: it was it was well earned. So you guys, obviously

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Speaker 1: you know what the first three trimesters are. That's pregnancy.

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Speaker 1: And I hadn't actually ever heard of the term fourth

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Speaker 1: trimester until I was in it myself. It's the newborn phase,

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Speaker 1: and it's the idea that human babies are actually born

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Speaker 1: before they're ready to be born. So to comfort a

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Speaker 1: newborn baby, you shush, you swaddle. It's the Harvey Karp

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Speaker 1: Happiest baby on the Block idea, so you recreate the

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Speaker 1: womb for them. But then I remember reading that book

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Speaker 1: and the whole way through he says, just get to

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Speaker 1: twelve weeks, your baby will wake up to the world

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Speaker 1: and be so happy and give you something back and

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Speaker 1: start to get on a schedule, and I just remember thinking, well, God,

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Speaker 1: that's when I go back to work. So for me,

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Speaker 1: when I went back to work, I was just I

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Speaker 1: will just be completely honest. I was a disaster. I

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Speaker 1: was really I had a very hard time. I was

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Speaker 1: a person who was very used to being in control

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Speaker 1: of my life and great at everything, or thinking I

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Speaker 1: was great at everything, and I was not that. But

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Speaker 1: what I found is that little by little, by being

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Speaker 1: really open and honest about motherhood in the workplace because

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Speaker 1: it was the only way I knew how to be,

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Speaker 1: I was helping myself and I was actually helping everybody

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Speaker 1: around me. And ultimately realized that that was that was

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Speaker 1: a whole otter trimester, that was a finite transition, that

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Speaker 1: was really a developmental phase for me. And so I

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Speaker 1: called it the fifth trimester. That's when the working mom

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Speaker 1: is born. Yes, that that's my tagline. Thanks, I thought

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Speaker 1: i'd throw that out there. Yes, I mean, so the

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Speaker 1: first one was really rough, then the first the first

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Speaker 1: fifth trimester. But you had two children, and so you

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Speaker 1: had two maternity leaves in the magazine industry. Did you

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Speaker 1: do anything different during the second one than you did

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Speaker 1: during the first well, more than anything, my expectations were

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Speaker 1: just so much more realistic. I just I knew it

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Speaker 1: would be hard. I also because I had, you know,

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Speaker 1: because I had a hard time. I actually had post

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Speaker 1: part of anxiety with my first son that was undiagnosed.

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Speaker 1: So the second time around, I actually got a little

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Speaker 1: therapy before I even had my second son, and I

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Speaker 1: ended up having a totally different experience. It was like

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Speaker 1: a blissful everything I imagined motherhood should be kind of experience.

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Speaker 1: But because because I felt emotionally great and because I had,

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of better expectations, I was also able

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Speaker 1: to use my maternity leave a little bit more in

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Speaker 1: a way that really like just made me feel better

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Speaker 1: about the whole thing. So every day during my maternity leave,

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Speaker 1: and we had child care, which was obviously because we

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Speaker 1: wanted to keep our same babysitter that we'd had when

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Speaker 1: I was working, so we kept her through my maternity leave.

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Speaker 1: So every day I would take an hour and a

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Speaker 1: half between nursings to take my older son, who was

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Speaker 1: then had just turned three, out to go do something

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Speaker 1: the two of us. And while it was for him,

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Speaker 1: it was also for me. It was to help me

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Speaker 1: feel like, you know, a mother who was able to

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Speaker 1: do that kind of thing. And so I went back

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Speaker 1: to work the second time feeling like I'd really enjoyed

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Speaker 1: as much as you can enjoy the newborn face. I

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Speaker 1: had really enjoyed that time, and that was really really

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Speaker 1: helpful going back, and then at re entry, I was

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Speaker 1: probably just more more open than ever about needing to pump,

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Speaker 1: about you know, about needing to leave work on time,

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Speaker 1: and about just sort of the physical challenges of being postpartum.

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Speaker 1: We are definitely going to get back the thing. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: I want to ask a question. You mentioned taking time,

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Speaker 1: you know, for your other child during your maternity leave,

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Speaker 1: which I'm really looking forward to as well, and I

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Speaker 1: keep kind of building up with my kids. Hey, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be home for three months, But did you

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Speaker 1: also take time for yourself? Is that something that you

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Speaker 1: did different a little bit more than I had, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: especially so I think I had. I was a little

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Speaker 1: bit nervous about whether or not our babysitter would be

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Speaker 1: able to handle the two boys by herself when I

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Speaker 1: was gone, which which was you know, I think probably

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Speaker 1: a lot of moms feel that way. It was no

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Speaker 1: commentary on her because she was awesome and she had

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Speaker 1: raised her own children and babysat for twenty five years,

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Speaker 1: so she knew what she was doing. But so it

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Speaker 1: actually toured maybe the second half of my leave. There

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Speaker 1: were a number of times when I would leave her

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Speaker 1: with both kids kind of as a like, let's see

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Speaker 1: how this goes. And that gave me time to myself

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Speaker 1: and also made me much more comfortable when it was

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Speaker 1: time to leave for real to go to work sense.

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Speaker 1: And so what are the you know, we have a

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Speaker 1: lot of listeners, who are you know in the young

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Speaker 1: kid phrase here, I mean, what are the biggest mistakes

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Speaker 1: you see people make during or even before their maternity

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Speaker 1: leaders so they know they're going to be out for

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Speaker 1: some chunk of time, Like, what what do you see

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Speaker 1: them not do as well as they could? Well? I

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Speaker 1: think that that it's really so when you are pregnant,

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Speaker 1: or if you're even what adoptive parents call paper pregnant,

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Speaker 1: that's that's the time to start making plans. And you

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Speaker 1: can't really you can't really know how you're going to

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Speaker 1: feel coming back to work, but just make the assumption

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Speaker 1: that it's going to be hard and try to set yourself,

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Speaker 1: set your life up for you know, in every way

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Speaker 1: that's going to make it easier. And obviously a big

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Speaker 1: part of that is having conversations at work about how

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Speaker 1: you envisioned this this going when you come back, and

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Speaker 1: you know, for better and for worse, this is I

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Speaker 1: am part of it too. We are part of a

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Speaker 1: generation of women who want and think that we should,

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Speaker 1: you know, achieve everything that we want and we should. However,

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Speaker 1: our expectations of ourselves are super super high, and so

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Speaker 1: you know, usually it's about twelve weeks in when people

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Speaker 1: start to announce their pregnancy at work, and that actually

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Speaker 1: coincides for a lot of women with when they start

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Speaker 1: feeling great and really energetic. And I think it can

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Speaker 1: fool you into thinking like, oh, this is going to

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Speaker 1: all be just peg. But the experts who I talked

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Speaker 1: to who work in talent and HR said that, you know,

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Speaker 1: that is actually the time to start anticipating how you

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Speaker 1: might want your job to change. And it's not it's

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Speaker 1: not a weakness to do so, because if you can

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Speaker 1: do it that early on, then it becomes who in

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Speaker 1: my team can grow into this thing that I think

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Speaker 1: I might not want to do when I get back,

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Speaker 1: and then what am I freedop to do instead? And

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Speaker 1: the thing you're freedom to do could actually be something

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Speaker 1: that's more senior, that's bigger, it's bigger picture thinking that's

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Speaker 1: actually ultimately beneficial to your workplace and to your career.

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Speaker 1: And then this, you know, say it's something like you

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Speaker 1: don't want to you don't want to travel as much,

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Speaker 1: but there's someone on your team who is really eager

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Speaker 1: for outward facing, you know, client relations, I'm making up

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Speaker 1: whatever this job is. Then train that person into it.

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Speaker 1: You've done a good deed. They're happy, your boss is happy.

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Speaker 1: There's just a lot you can do to set yourself

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Speaker 1: up for success really early on, and probably to some

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Speaker 1: degree while you're on maternity leave too, because here's the thing,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people have never had that length of

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Speaker 1: time off from work. True, and it's it's obviously you

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Speaker 1: have a newborn. So we're not talking like a full

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Speaker 1: three month you know, focus on anything else sabbatical, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is time, and it's time where you're off and

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Speaker 1: away from sort of the daily demands of email, the

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Speaker 1: daily meetings all that, so you've got mental space. I mean,

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Speaker 1: do you think it's it's unreasonable thing about like, well,

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Speaker 1: I could think about my career, I could think about

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Speaker 1: how I could position myself for more senior stuff when

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Speaker 1: I come back. I could I have this rebranding opportunity

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Speaker 1: when I when I come back after this this break. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it is. It is absolutely a Rebri opportunity. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I will say so for some women there is more

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Speaker 1: mental space than others. You know, a lot of people

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Speaker 1: are quite fragmented in having like you have that thought

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Speaker 1: and then it's fleeting and then the baby cries, you know,

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Speaker 1: especially if you're not sleeping yet. And most women I

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Speaker 1: talked to you weren't sleeping a full night sleep themselves

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Speaker 1: until the seven month mark. So that's you know, that's

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Speaker 1: pretty far out from there. What is actually what I

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Speaker 1: found just anecdotally in the interviews that I did, and

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Speaker 1: I think I forgot to say so. I talked to

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Speaker 1: and surveyed about eight hundred women for this book. And

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Speaker 1: these were women with all kinds of different careers. Some

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Speaker 1: were hourly workers, some were CEOs, some were for themselves,

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Speaker 1: some were you know, PhDs like you know, wide wide

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Speaker 1: range of sort of career backgrounds. The thinking that they

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Speaker 1: did in terms of their careers. That seemed to be

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Speaker 1: most universal and helpful was not necessarily how am I

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Speaker 1: going to grow in my job when I get back,

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Speaker 1: Because for a lot of women, that was a that

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Speaker 1: was a hard thing to even conceive of in that

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Speaker 1: exact moment. Although lots when they got back ended up

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Speaker 1: actually growing in their jobs. They brought their motherhood to

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Speaker 1: work in a way that was really beneficial. But the

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Speaker 1: thing that I saw and do was a lot of

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Speaker 1: women made friends with other new mothers who had literally

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Speaker 1: only one thing in common with them, which was that

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Speaker 1: they had this newborn baby the same age as theirs.

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Speaker 1: And then what happens is is, so you make these

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Speaker 1: relationships with these other new moms, and they're in all

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Speaker 1: different fields, and each of those parents, you know, and

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Speaker 1: some of them, some of them are at home, maybe

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Speaker 1: not working or you know, working in the home, as

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Speaker 1: we say, But those mothers each bring their own sense

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Speaker 1: of what is normal in terms of how much you

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Speaker 1: can ask for or what their workplace culture is to

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Speaker 1: the table, and you start to get exposed to a

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Speaker 1: lot of other ways of doing things and a lot

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Speaker 1: of other ways of you know, a lot of other

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Speaker 1: people who were comfortable and negotiating for things that you

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Speaker 1: might not have even thought were available to you. Suddenly

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Speaker 1: you realize, like, my little, you know, silo of work

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Speaker 1: normalcy is only in my workplace, and there's a bigger,

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Speaker 1: broader world and a bigger broader career out there that

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Speaker 1: I might want to explore. And so that and those

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Speaker 1: people end up being great contacts for you. I've found

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Speaker 1: that to be true myself. So that's that's the thinking

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Speaker 1: that a lot of women will do if they have

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Speaker 1: that time on leave. But a lot of women don't

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Speaker 1: even have twelve weeks. Just to be clear, Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: did you wind up doing a lot of that kind

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Speaker 1: of networking that mama networking when you are on your leaves?

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Speaker 1: I get a little bit more the second time around,

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Speaker 1: when I had actually started to conceive of this idea

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Speaker 1: of the fifth trimester, and it was in the back

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Speaker 1: of my brain and I thought, maybe one day, if

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Speaker 1: I can stop working around the clock on this other,

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Speaker 1: you know, actual job that pays me a salary, maybe

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Speaker 1: I'll do that. So I started to kind of put

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Speaker 1: feelers out for this even then and to sort of

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Speaker 1: grow my thinking in it. But it's funny when I

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Speaker 1: think back to the new Mom's group, the couple of

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Speaker 1: new moms I made friends with with my first son,

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Speaker 1: Will when I was on maternity leave. And I should

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Speaker 1: say that my husband and I were we weren't super

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Speaker 1: young parents, but we were the first among our group

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Speaker 1: of friends to have a baby. So I really had

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Speaker 1: to go make friends with strangers. And the women who

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Speaker 1: I actually made friends with are now in my book.

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Speaker 1: They are you know, the women who I interviewed, for

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Speaker 1: the most part, are not people I know, but those

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Speaker 1: that core little core group of friends are people who

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Speaker 1: contributed in different ways and really helped me understand, you know,

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Speaker 1: how to how to expand my expectations of myself and

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Speaker 1: my own career in a way that was doable. So, Lauren,

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Speaker 1: you're running your own business now and you're I mean,

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Speaker 1: so we can talk about certainly what your business does

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Speaker 1: of going into companies and helping them have programs for

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Speaker 1: women transitioning back into work after leaves or parents in

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Speaker 1: general transitioning back into leaves. But because you're working for

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Speaker 1: yourself now, yeah, the whole day is different. And not

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Speaker 1: that you're planning on having more children, but if you were,

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Speaker 1: what would you how would you do a maternity leave

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Speaker 1: now as a self employed business owner, that is such

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Speaker 1: a good question. So this is actually the chapter that

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Speaker 1: I added after I had planned out my table of

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Speaker 1: contents for my book, because I found as I was

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Speaker 1: interviewing that there are just so many women in America

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Speaker 1: who either work for themselves or are more likely who

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Speaker 1: idealize the idea of working for themselves and either you know,

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Speaker 1: have a passion they might want to pursue one day,

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Speaker 1: or have a side gig that they might want to

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Speaker 1: turn into their main job. The reality of it is, though,

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Speaker 1: according to the women who are doing it, it's incredibly

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Speaker 1: incredibly challenging to be as good a boss to yourself

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Speaker 1: as you would want a boss to be in the workplace.

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Speaker 1: But that is the biggest tip too. So you know,

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Speaker 1: if you would go into a job negotiation assuming okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about how much vacation time I get,

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Speaker 1: what my hours are, is their flex time? You know

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Speaker 1: all of these benefits and things, Grant that to yourself

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Speaker 1: too if you're making a decision to work for yourself now,

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Speaker 1: I will be honest, the women who I spoke to

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Speaker 1: who worked for themselves did not take traditional maternity leaves.

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Speaker 1: A lot of them had existing client relationships that sort

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Speaker 1: of cyclically they were able to you know, work something

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Speaker 1: out that they would be you know, sort of dark

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Speaker 1: for like a month, but I got to tell you,

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Speaker 1: like a good handful of them were working, you know,

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Speaker 1: the next day, now only a little bit, maybe just

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Speaker 1: an hour here or there. But they were afraid that

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Speaker 1: if they did not work for you know, the couple

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Speaker 1: three four or five months that they might want to,

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Speaker 1: that would they would lose they would lose their clients.

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Speaker 1: On the other side of it. The one woman I

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Speaker 1: spoke to, and Sarah, this is obviously you know, applicable

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Speaker 1: for you. The one woman who was able to plan

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Speaker 1: for it was actually a psychiatrist I interviewed. As a

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Speaker 1: private practice. She partnered with another psychiatrist who also specializes

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Speaker 1: in maternal mental health, and they have taken turns as

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Speaker 1: they've had their children covering for one another in an

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Speaker 1: actual full three month span of maternity leave. So she

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Speaker 1: was able to work it out. But she also had

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Speaker 1: to financially plan to be able to do that, because obviously,

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Speaker 1: if you work for yourself, you're not you know, in

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Speaker 1: our current federal state, you're not getting you know, maternity

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Speaker 1: leave benefits or pay. I'm a hospitals, my situation is

431
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,560
Speaker 1: actually a lot easier. But you know what you said

432
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,119
Speaker 1: earlier about sort of crafting your job planning in advance

433
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,879
Speaker 1: really did resonate me with me because we ended up

434
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 1: getting one of the nurse practitioners to cross train from

435
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,199
Speaker 1: her prior field of allergy immunology into endochronology, which is

436
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 1: what I do. So she's been working with me for

437
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,639
Speaker 1: several months, and interestingly, I've never had a nurse practitioner

438
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 1: work with me, but I do. If I am able

439
00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,439
Speaker 1: to keep her in some fashion once I get back,

440
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 1: it could actually expand my role to some extent, like

441
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 1: cou'd be able to take on more new patients if

442
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 1: she were able to continue seeing more of my returns.

443
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:29,639
Speaker 1: So there's actually a little bit of a benefit, like

444
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 1: you said, for that planning of coverage and how I

445
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 1: could end up expanding things as a side benefit that

446
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 1: I hadn't even anticipated. So great to hear. That's wonderful,

447
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 1: And she's probably happy too. Oh, she's so excited. She

448
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 1: loves the idea of just getting a whole new field

449
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 1: of expertise, and she's been fantastic, so great. That's wonderful

450
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,199
Speaker 1: to hear. So what does your I'm curious, can I

451
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 1: ask you what does your leave situation look like? Ah, well,

452
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about it a bunch in our

453
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,440
Speaker 1: openers wife, we'll have already talked about it in this episode,

454
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,399
Speaker 1: but just briefly, I'm planning on taking twelve weeks fully off.

455
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 1: I do have that nurse practitioner and my colleagues covering me.

456
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 1: My patients aren't going anywhere. In my particular field, most

457
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 1: of what we do is very like you really get

458
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: to know your patients over time. So just because I

459
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 1: have a twelve week window that I'm gone, my patients

460
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: have either planned to see our NP for just one

461
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: visit or just sort of hold off for a few months,

462
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 1: or see one of our If it's a diabetes patient,

463
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 1: they can see one of our nurses. So thankfully, it

464
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 1: shouldn't impact my patient panel at all. I'm also involved

465
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 1: in a residency program that we're currently developing. That part's

466
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 1: a little bit more challenging as we're currently going through

467
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 1: interview season, but I essentially have someone covering for me.

468
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,640
Speaker 1: But I do plan to be quite unplugged from medicine.

469
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 1: I find that at least in medicine, it is a

470
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 1: little bit of all or nothing. Like if I were

471
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 1: to open the floodgates to clinical work, it was just

472
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: all so I sort of have to just put a

473
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: plug on it and then I will be back in

474
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 1: full strength in twelve weeks. And speaking of that, that

475
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 1: brings us to you know, we were going to talk

476
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: to you about a very prominent aspect of that fifth

477
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:08,120
Speaker 1: trimester for many women and my least favorite part of

478
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 1: having children, which pumping. I'm with you. I gotta say

479
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 1: it sucks, literally because I guess exactly there were there

480
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 1: were many angsty blog posts from Sarah. I recall from

481
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: what it was three and a half years ago now,

482
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: and there be more easier the second time around. I mean,

483
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: everything was easier the second time around, but maybe it

484
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 1: will be easier now that you've done it the third

485
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 1: time around. I don't know. Maybe by the third time

486
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,199
Speaker 1: it's just really a drag. So what should we what

487
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: should how are pumping? What advice? Humping is one of

488
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 1: those things. This is not particularly PC, but like, there

489
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 1: are a few things about new motherhood that if you

490
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 1: can just like throw money at the problem. You know,

491
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: it is not a waste and it is it is

492
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 1: money that you will eventually save. So I would say,

493
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: certainly with pumping, get duplicates or triple triplicates. Is that

494
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 1: a word of all of your parts? You know, get

495
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 1: extra tubing, get extra flange's that's my favorite word, because

496
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 1: because what ends up happening is with your tube and cracks,

497
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 1: you know, and you are full to the brim and

498
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 1: you need to pump. You're gonna call whatever store in

499
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 1: town has that part while you're in a hospital, so

500
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 1: you might actually be able to get what you need.

501
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,400
Speaker 1: I did once pill for something. Okay, so that's that's

502
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: a different situation. But for a lot of women, you know,

503
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: you're gonna end up, like in New York City, you

504
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: would like call a messenger to go to this place

505
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 1: to bring it. You're gonna spend the money anyway, So

506
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 1: just just have, you know, have your stuff at home,

507
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: have your stuff at your workplace, any place you might

508
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 1: need to pump, have stuff, and then you won't be

509
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: commuting with it with you want you know, you'll just

510
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: be commuting with the actual milk, which is which is

511
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 1: much much easier. Okay, what else in terms of pumping. So,

512
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of people talk about just put

513
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 1: it on your calendar, you know, schedule it in, and

514
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 1: I have to say that didn't always work for me.

515
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: That there's an assumption there that you are actually in

516
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: charge of your calendar and that someone else isn't going

517
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: to start a meeting late or early that you have

518
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 1: to be at. So instead I would say, you know,

519
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: have an ideal in your mind of when it should be.

520
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: Kind of basically every day for me, I had to

521
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: pump three times a day. I found that I had

522
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: a lot of supply first thing in the morning, so

523
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 1: I would get in first thing and it would let

524
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: me sort of catch up on the emails that had

525
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 1: come in at night and pump, and then I would

526
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: pump again around lunchtime. It meant that for a couple

527
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 1: of months, I really did not ever take a work

528
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: lunch like and a part of my job really was

529
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: networking and being out having lunches with people, and so

530
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: that didn't happen for me. Instead, I would do a

531
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 1: lot of phone calls and a lot of emails during

532
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: that time, and then I would pump one more time

533
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: toward the end of the day. There is, I mean,

534
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: you know this your third time, mom, there is some flexibility.

535
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: You don't have to pump at exactly the same time

536
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: every day. What the lactation consultants say is that you

537
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: just want to make sure that if you're pumping a

538
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 1: certain number of times, so a certain number of letdowns

539
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: over the course of the day, that that number doesn't

540
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 1: decrease day by day. So you know, if you have

541
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 1: only forty five minutes between pump things like, you'll probably

542
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 1: be able to come up with the milk, and it's

543
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: worth going ahead and getting it, even if it's only

544
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: a little bit, just so the next day your body

545
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: doesn't adjust to not having milk in that time. What

546
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 1: are you planning on doing, Sarah? Interesting So for me,

547
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: I actually gave my office manager the other day, Hey,

548
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 1: this is what I want my schedule to look like

549
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 1: when I get back, which is really to reduce. Currently,

550
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 1: I have theoretically an hour for lunch, although that's a

551
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: total lie. That's I mean, I see my patient until

552
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 1: about twelve fifteen, write notes until about twelve forty, and

553
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: then my next patient is there at one. So but

554
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: at that same time, the note writing part is pretty flexible.

555
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: So what I did was reduce that mid day interval,

556
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 1: and I do plan on pumping at that time, but

557
00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: it'll be tighter and it'll be pumping and eating in

558
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: my office. But I added in like a mid morning

559
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: fifteen or I think I did twenty or twenty maybe

560
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 1: twenty five minute break because you know, they tend to

561
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: get reduced as as patients get squeezed in, and then

562
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: another one around three o'clock. So I'm like you, I

563
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: really need those three pump sessions. And I typically also

564
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: do one like five in the morning and sometimes at

565
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 1: bed time too. I'm not one of those naturally abundant

566
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: supply kind of people, and unfortunately I wish I could

567
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: let myself use a little more supplementation. But I it's

568
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: almost like, well, I can do it. It's sort of painful,

569
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: but I've got just enough that i can do it.

570
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: So I try at least for you know, a few months.

571
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 1: I don't plan on pumping for twelve months. I really

572
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: just I was but six to nine. It sounds like

573
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: that I want to ask you, are you able to

574
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: work because so much of your work is face to face,

575
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: But it does sound like you could write notes, you know,

576
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: are you able to work during your pump time at all?

577
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: That's something that a lot of women told me they found.

578
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: I can do some things. I can. You know, this

579
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: is well we'll have It's not really team I. I

580
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,199
Speaker 1: don't care. I have to do a lot of physical

581
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: expression to get the most out of my pump sessions.

582
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: So what I can do. I can review charts, I

583
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: can prep I can look at the computer. I can't

584
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 1: really intensely type, be typing and clicking the way i'd

585
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: be completing my notes. So unfortunately I'm halfway there. However,

586
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 1: with respect to throwing money at the problem, I've decided

587
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: this time I'm going to invest in every single possible

588
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: tool there. It could be because maybe I just haven't

589
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 1: found the exact right flag yet or you know, magical

590
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: bra or something that's gonna make it easier this time.

591
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: I'm probably deluding myself, because again it's the third time.

592
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: I don't really know that I left that many stones

593
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: unturned previously. But we will see how it goes. And

594
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:41,959
Speaker 1: you feel like that is an industry that is just

595
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: it's booming, you know, and so there are there are things,

596
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: there are new products and and you know, even new

597
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: better pumps now than there were two years ago. Yeah,

598
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: I'm actually surprised at the number of things that are

599
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: on the market. Some of them get rave reviews, and

600
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: some of them are like these smaller boutiqui type companies,

601
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: so it's hard to navigate. But I have some great

602
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: blog readers who have given me some recommendations, and I'm

603
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: sure I'll be sort of in that world again once

604
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: that starts out. I will say, if I can offer

605
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: one bit of advice, it's too if you do if

606
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: you are able to work during your pumping sessions, broadcast

607
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: that you know, some women really can't and really need to.

608
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: You know, maybe your lactation If you have a lactation

609
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: room at work and there's no Wi Fi, that's a problem.

610
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: You can ask for to get Wi Fi, but there

611
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: might be really a problem being able to do work.

612
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: But if you can do work, work and then tell

613
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: people you did, because it really decreases the stigma of

614
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: people thinking like, oh, she's taking a break to pump.

615
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: Now you're not taking a break. You know, we're actually not.

616
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: And it's really hard when you have a hard stop

617
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: at the end of your day as a new parent

618
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: to also you know, take time away three times a

619
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: day to steal, to rob time from yourself, so it's

620
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: worth whatever whatever you can get done during that time.

621
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: I found it very helpful too, and a lot of

622
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: women I spoke to did too. But then also helpful

623
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: is actual being open about that with the people you

624
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: work with so they get it. That makes total sense,

625
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: And at least I do work in a career where

626
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: productivity is very objective, so if I'm seeing the same

627
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: number of patients, it's sort of hard for someone to argue, hey,

628
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: you're taking these breaks. It's like, well, because I'm writing

629
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: the notes at night during residency. I had my first

630
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: child during fellowship. I wanted to get pregnant during residency,

631
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: but that didn't work out. Believe it or not, my residency,

632
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: you would love this had a newborn elective where you

633
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: could spend four weeks getting credit for pediatric's residency, basically

634
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: hanging out with your newborn. So people were able to

635
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: supplement there's six that's at Duke and it's still there

636
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: part of their pied's residency. My fellowship did not come

637
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: with that, so I was disappointed at the timing. And

638
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,479
Speaker 1: then my second I had when I was a brand

639
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: new attending where I currently work, and that was a

640
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: little rough. I actually arrived pregnant. That hadn't been necessarily

641
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: the plan, but it happened, and they were super I

642
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: work with wonderful people and they were very accepting, and

643
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: they've even been incredibly supportive of the third and last

644
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: So I feel I saw the pictures from her awesome

645
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: shower that her coworkers shocks. I do not think. I

646
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: did find that a lot of the physicians I spoke to,

647
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: who you know, sort of biologically a lot of these

648
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: women are at the age of having babies when they're

649
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: in their residencies, and that it's just it's incredibly hard

650
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: to be able to take the time you might need.

651
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: You know, if you take more than a month, you

652
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,719
Speaker 1: might have to do a whole extra year of residency.

653
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: My husband was in his residency and got three days

654
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: of leave. That was years ago. There's a better policy now.

655
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: It's it's rough, and it's really ironic when you know,

656
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: you of everybody know how valuable you know medically and emotionally,

657
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: this this time is so Lauren, absolutely, you know, speaking

658
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,479
Speaker 1: of those first early days back from work, I mean,

659
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: do you have any sort of practical best practices for

660
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: women coming back to work. I mean, among the issues

661
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: that you should anticipate, like what if you don't fit

662
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: into your old suits for dance? Yeah, I mean this

663
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: like there could be very practical chats for those. Absolutely,

664
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: those are really those are really real problems. And I

665
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: have to say, like when I wrote the book, especially

666
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: just because I had come from Glamour magazine and edited

667
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: so many fashion and beauty pages for so many years,

668
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: I felt like I'm moving into something deeper now. Well,

669
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: guess what, Like, the way you look and feel about

670
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: yourself is absolutely projected in the workplace. So actually, some

671
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: of the most concrete tips in the book really are

672
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: about his personal style and feeling good at a time

673
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: when physically you're not really yourself yet. The easiest thing

674
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: to do is to really try to game your morning

675
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: because and Laura you probably will appreciate this more than anyone,

676
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: but the time that MANUW others have in the morning

677
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: is so so limited. You're actually spending more time getting

678
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: ready but far less time on yourself. So one thing

679
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: that can help is if you organize your closet so

680
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: that you sort of make a little miniature closet within

681
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: your closet of only the things that fit and are appropriate.

682
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: So the rest of it just doesn't even torture you.

683
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: And you can add to it over time. And if

684
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: you look at that little, tiny mini closet of six

685
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: things and you see that there are no pants, you

686
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: got to go out and buy some pants, you know pants.

687
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: Tell you what first practice is for first day back,

688
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: actually wear pants. I love that though. Yeah, you have

689
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: to hide the stuff that that doesn't fit yet, it's torture,

690
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,959
Speaker 1: it's waste, it's a waste of time. And I actually

691
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: found so I've found this to be good advice for

692
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: any transition. You know. I went from sitting in you know,

693
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: jeans and yoga pants, writing a book for a year too,

694
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: having to be out in the world promoting it largely

695
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: in New York in fancy dresses. So I did that myself.

696
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: I made myself a little miniature work area of my

697
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: closet that is, like, you know, if I find out

698
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: I have to go do something, you know, in two hours,

699
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: like it's there and it's ready, I can grab it

700
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: and I'm done. So that's something I will actually keep doing,

701
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: probably through other transitional times in my life some other things.

702
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: So obviously, if you can before you go back to work,

703
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: get a haircut, get your you know, if you get

704
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: your hair colored, get your color done, just and discuss

705
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: with the person who's doing it that you're going to

706
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: want this to last, you know, for as long as

707
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: humanly possible, and you just it does make such a

708
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: difference in how you feel about yourself. There are even studies,

709
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,720
Speaker 1: there is science that shows it, which made me feel

710
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: good about including it in the book too. In terms

711
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,439
Speaker 1: of just office dynamics, one thing that can really help

712
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: is when you go back, you might not actually come

713
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: back to a pile of work right because people have

714
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: been covering for you and the world has continued to spin.

715
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,439
Speaker 1: So if you find yourself with kind of at least

716
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 1: the first like two days, if you find yourself with time,

717
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: go go sort of person to person and dottle a

718
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 1: little kind of re meet and greet, almost pretend that

719
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: you are new in your job and you want to

720
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: catch up with each person and find out what was

721
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: you know, what happened. You don't want to waste their

722
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 1: time rehashing things that they've already solved in your absence.

723
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: But just get the lay of the land and figure out,

724
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: you know, what are the seismic changes that have happened

725
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: that will actually impact you moving forward, and what's the

726
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: stuff you can let go of and just decide right

727
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: then and there. I'm not going to ruminate about, you know,

728
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: why that client came and went in the time that

729
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: I was gone. So that can be really helpful too.

730
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 1: I like that. I like that. I'm going to try

731
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: to build in some time when I come back to

732
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: not be completely chock full, like the very first day,

733
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: having a light schedule on your first day back in general.

734
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: B Oh, yeah, how thought your first year back, or

735
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: even to start on a Thursday or something so it

736
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: feels like you're almost done with the week. Yeah, you

737
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,479
Speaker 1: don't have to go back on a Monday. Like throw

738
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 1: that out there. That's an interesting idea. Start on a Thursday,

739
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: or at least maybe since well I work eighty percent time,

740
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: use my day strategically, so maybe go back for one

741
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 1: day and ease myself. These are awesome. I did, Sarah,

742
00:35:55,400 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: did you have any other sort of maternity leave focused questions? No?

743
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: I think those were my main practical ones. I'm so

744
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: excited to put these tips on actually have about negotiating

745
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: that I have also found really HubNet because I said, like,

746
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 1: I'm in my thirtieth trimester now and I still find

747
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: this helpful. And I only learned it when I was

748
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: researching the book. So when you're negotiating for something with

749
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: a supervisor and you ask for it, and obviously you

750
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: know you manage up, you come in with a plan,

751
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: you kind of solve for whatever problem you know, they

752
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: may sort of foresee and really anticipate that. There's all that,

753
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 1: But one extra thing you can do is actually set

754
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 1: a date at which you're going to reevaluate to see

755
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: if it's working. So you're not asking for a permanent change.

756
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: You're asking to try this thing for a month, two months,

757
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 1: three months. And what that does is it lets the

758
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 1: person who you're negotiating with give them kind of an

759
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: out right like they can say like, okay, we're just

760
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: going to try this. But it also if you have

761
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: a new baby. You guys have had babies, you know

762
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: that what a baby needs at four months is very

763
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: different than what you might need at six months, it

764
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,439
Speaker 1: seven months. It gives you an opportunity to revisit your

765
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: needs too, and perhaps even renegotiate for something different that

766
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: you might need more in that moment. Very good advice.

767
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: Oh I love that. Not making permanent plans, and that

768
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: makes sense, especially as I'm you know, working through the

769
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 1: pump schedule and my graduated return and that kind of thing.

770
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: Say Okay, this is how I like it for the

771
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: next three months and then let's visit well. Wonderful. So

772
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: this brings us to our Love of the Week segment

773
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: that we're keeping Lauren here to make her give her

774
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: Love of the Week too. This is when we talk

775
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: about something that is rocking our boats this week. Mine,

776
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and recommend this totally

777
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:44,280
Speaker 1: non sponsored podcast or anything. But these Cookies by Design

778
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: has these giant cookie bouquets that you know, they ship

779
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: to anywhere and they make a lot of new baby ones.

780
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 1: Uh So I send a lot of cookie bouquets to

781
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: people who have just had babies, and you know, people

782
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: always tell me it's great for like when you're pumped,

783
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 1: you know, nursing in the middle of the night at

784
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: two am and you really want a cookie. These are

785
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: good cookies for that because you have so many visitors. No,

786
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: but I don't know that you want to give them

787
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: these cookies. Okay, they're that good you need to pour

788
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: them all fair. Oh my goodness. Well, I'm going to

789
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: go on a total non sequitor, but because this is

790
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,399
Speaker 1: going to air in December, right around the time that

791
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: my favorite lists come out, I'm going to give a

792
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: shout out to those best of twenty seventeen or whatever

793
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,240
Speaker 1: year it is music lists because I'm super super excited

794
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 1: for those. And actually there's a website I discovered called

795
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,959
Speaker 1: album of the Year that will compile all the best

796
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: of lists from all different sources. And I'm actually really

797
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: excited to have some new music to listen to on

798
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: my leave because I always felt like having music on

799
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 1: when you have that new baby kept the atmosphere a

800
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 1: little bit more calm and yeah, and you'll remember that

801
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: time through that music too, which I think is really nice.

802
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 1: Absolutely right, Laura, that's actually so that actually brings me

803
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: in to mind. So mine is my husband and I

804
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: are always extremely late to the party with our music

805
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,240
Speaker 1: and our TV. And we finally started watching Stranger Things,

806
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 1: which is really actually not my kind of shows. It's

807
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a very reality based consumer of entertainment,

808
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: and there's nothing realistic about this except for how incredibly

809
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: accurate the representations are of the nineteen eighties, which is

810
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: when my husband and I were both kids. And it

811
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: has brought up so many fun conversations for us as

812
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: it brings up memories from our childhood of things that

813
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: we actually have known each other for twenty years, things

814
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: that we actually hadn't hadn't told each other about yet.

815
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: And it's also our children are the ages now of

816
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 1: the kids in the show too, so it's really kind

817
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: of it's been really beneficial and more than just a

818
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: watching and entertaining show kind of way, it's been lovely.

819
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: My husband loves that show, so maybe that'll be another

820
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,399
Speaker 1: fun maturity leave project now to catch up. I love

821
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 1: it all right, Well, thank you so much Lauren for

822
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 1: being with us. We really appreciate Oh thanks for having me. Yes,

823
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 1: thank good, love Sarah with everything. Thank you. We got

824
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: a number of questions about maternity leave, but we've covered

825
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: a lot of them. This one is about the length

826
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 1: of maternity leave specifically, and one listener wrote at my workplace,

827
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: eighteen to twenty weeks is what the state of California

828
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: provides as protected leave, unpaid between FMLA and baby bonding time. However,

829
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: it has become somewhat common in my industry to take

830
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: a six month leave, so I know I could request

831
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: a few extra weeks without many questions, But that's longer

832
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: away from my work and projects, but also precious baby time.

833
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 1: She'll be joining her one and a half year old

834
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 1: sister in daycare, so also to consider are the potential

835
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 1: health benefits of starting daycare a month or so later. Well,

836
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: the first thing I will say, and I want to

837
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: hear your thoughts as well, Laura, is that I'm not

838
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,919
Speaker 1: sure about the health benefits because if she's thinking about

839
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: avoiding infections, that one and a half year old sister

840
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: is going to be colonized with everything, So keeping the

841
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: younger one out of daycare might not be as protective

842
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 1: as she's thank you already experience actor exactly. It's your toddler,

843
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: that's the cesspool. So you know it's so that part.

844
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: I don't think she necessarily needs to worry about. That's

845
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: my official medical opinion on that. What do you think.

846
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: I don't think there's a right number of weeks, and

847
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: I know that in the US, and we have some

848
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 1: international listeners who have a totally different perspective on this

849
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: from what their country sort of have. It's normal in

850
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: the US a lot of women wind up going back

851
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: to work before they're ready because we don't have any

852
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 1: particular protected amount of time. There's some people who qualify

853
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 1: for twelve weeks unpaid, but really that's the only sort

854
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: of guaranteed thing we have nationwide. But so we wind

855
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: up sort of glorifying these these longer extended leaves. But

856
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: the thing is, I mean, they're they're not for everyone. Like,

857
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: you don't have to take a long leave just because

858
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 1: it's potentially available. You can, obviously, and if you would

859
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: like to, that is fine. But if you are saying, well,

860
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: you know, I'd like to get back to my projects.

861
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: I love what I do for a living, for instance,

862
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: I enjoy spending my time that way, then you may

863
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 1: wish to get back to that sooner rather than later.

864
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: If you are, for instance, going up for a promotion

865
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 1: in the next year or two, and this person, I mean,

866
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: if you're in like a law firm and trying to

867
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 1: make partner, if you're a consulting firm trying to make partner,

868
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: or if you are just going for a permission. You know,

869
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 1: you might want to get back sooner rather than later.

870
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: So I mean, you don't have to take a long leave.

871
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: It doesn't make you a bad mother. Let's throw that

872
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 1: out there, to not want to take absolutely every minute

873
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,439
Speaker 1: that you might be entitled to or allowed to take.

874
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,720
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, aside from the breastfeeding pumping side

875
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:52,280
Speaker 1: of things, I think that maternity leaves, maybe not everyone

876
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 1: would agree with this, but are more for the mother

877
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: than for some sort of good of the baby. Of course,

878
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: if there's no childcare option, then then it's essential. But

879
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 1: in this case where it sounds like there is a

880
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,919
Speaker 1: daycare available, I think this person who wrote in should

881
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: really think about what does she want, you know, not

882
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: what should she do? What does society say she do,

883
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: what does society say her baby quote unquote needs, and

884
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: what is quote unquote precious? Because Laura and I both

885
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 1: don't you know, I made the argument that, well, is

886
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,439
Speaker 1: that any more precious than like your five year old

887
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: time or your three year old time? I mean, not necessarily.

888
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: I think we have to be careful about what's objective

889
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: and what's sort of a cultural narrative there, and if

890
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: she wants that extra time. She should totally go for it,

891
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 1: but she should acknowledge that it's it's more for her.

892
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,479
Speaker 1: And the other thing I'm wondering is could she play

893
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,399
Speaker 1: it by ear so could she plan on taking ten

894
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: weeks or twelve weeks perhaps, and then decide, based on

895
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 1: how she's feeling and how the baby's doing and how

896
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 1: things are going, how long she wants to extend it,

897
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,399
Speaker 1: Because like for me, I know I want to take

898
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 1: it lea, I want to take twelve I don't have

899
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,240
Speaker 1: the option of going longer. But I can't imagine planning

900
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: longer than that, because I don't know that I would

901
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: need or want longer than that. If I had the

902
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,760
Speaker 1: option of taking more than twelve weeks, maybe I would

903
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 1: want to take more, but maybe I wouldn't. And it's

904
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,439
Speaker 1: hard to know ahead of time what I might want,

905
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:19,439
Speaker 1: given we don't know how the baby sleeps, we don't

906
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 1: know how I'd be feeling, et cetera. So I wonder

907
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: if there's maybe some flexibility that this person could build

908
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,959
Speaker 1: in to decide not to be a way to sort

909
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 1: of take the leave not all at once. I mean,

910
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: I wonder if it could be pro rated as like

911
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: a part time option once she comes back, right that

912
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,879
Speaker 1: if she could work a couple days a week upon

913
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 1: returning as part of using some of her leave, that

914
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 1: that might be a way to get the advantage of

915
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 1: having that time off. But then also you know, getting

916
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: back to work in some form a little bit earlier

917
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: than the full leave. I don't know. I mean, it's

918
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: hard to know what different organizations or rules would would allow,

919
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: but that might be one to think of it as well. Well.

920
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 1: This has been best of both worlds. We've been talking

921
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: maternity leave in episode eighteen, the leave itself, and transitioning

922
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: back in. Tune in next week for more on making

923
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 1: work and life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can

924
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 1: find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at

925
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 1: the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me

926
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 1: Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the

927
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time

928
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: for more on making work and life work together.