1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,440
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not supported by reusing all those A O.

2
00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,920
Speaker 1: L discs. Instead, it's supported by the generous donations of

3
00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,200
Speaker 1: our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon dot com slash Thinking

4
00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:20,200
Speaker 1: sideways to learn more and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't

5
00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:28,520
Speaker 1: understand you never know stories of things. We simply don't

6
00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:33,840
Speaker 1: know the answer too well. Here there, welcome to another

7
00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:38,000
Speaker 1: episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined as always by

8
00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:43,120
Speaker 1: Devon and Steve. Yeah. So we're gonna solve a really

9
00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,680
Speaker 1: groovy mystery. By the way, this is part of our

10
00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,240
Speaker 1: summer series. So in order to pring up some of

11
00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,720
Speaker 1: your precious time we started, we decided to drop a

12
00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,720
Speaker 1: series of episodes. They are kind of shorter because the

13
00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,880
Speaker 1: fact of the matter is there's a ton of mysteries

14
00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,080
Speaker 1: out there and a lot of them aren't really and

15
00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,240
Speaker 1: a half mysteries unfortunately. So we're gonna cover some of

16
00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,360
Speaker 1: those and then you have more time for barbecues and

17
00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,800
Speaker 1: swelling beer, blowing your fingers off with fireworks, you know,

18
00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:14,959
Speaker 1: all the usual stuff. So so let's get to it.

19
00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,560
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a bang. Actually, I know that. I

20
00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,240
Speaker 1: think I think the listeners are Thinking Sideways are smarter

21
00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,679
Speaker 1: than the average bear, and I think that probably they're

22
00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,760
Speaker 1: not the demographic that actually do blow their fingers off, hopefully. Well,

23
00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,559
Speaker 1: let's stop talking about the demographic just in case. Yeah,

24
00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,120
Speaker 1: we don't want to isolate them. Yeah, this mystery is

25
00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,119
Speaker 1: so it's kind of old. It's over a half century old.

26
00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,880
Speaker 1: Hit involves a little death, and it's got the usual

27
00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,560
Speaker 1: cia perfidy and it's so trigger warnings. You know, you

28
00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,160
Speaker 1: guys know what that means. It starts depending on where

29
00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:50,160
Speaker 1: you read about it, either August fifteen or August in

30
00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,240
Speaker 1: fawon sent is three France. That is, it's actually it

31
00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,200
Speaker 1: actually should be pronounced pont santas sprit, but franch are

32
00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,320
Speaker 1: famous for mispronouncing everything. Yeah, a pretty bad at pronunciation.

33
00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,080
Speaker 1: Sorry French listeners, just kidding. Palm sat Spree is a

34
00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,280
Speaker 1: small village in southern France uh as of the two

35
00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:16,280
Speaker 1: thousand twelve censes population ten thousand, sixty one, but the

36
00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:18,720
Speaker 1: town was somewhat less than half that size. One of

37
00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,880
Speaker 1: these strange events began to take place. And by the way,

38
00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:23,240
Speaker 1: have you have you guys gone and looked at on

39
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:27,560
Speaker 1: the street view. Yeah, it's it looks like a really beautiful,

40
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,280
Speaker 1: charming little town. I mean, it's in France, so it

41
00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,359
Speaker 1: looks like a nice place to live. Yeah it does.

42
00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,840
Speaker 1: So our story actually begins a little earlier in August,

43
00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,120
Speaker 1: because some of the citizens of Paul Sandy Spree began

44
00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:45,480
Speaker 1: experiencing heartburn, stomach cramps, fevere chills in some cases vomiting,

45
00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,720
Speaker 1: and diarrhea, and most people had their heart rates slowed

46
00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,120
Speaker 1: dangerously down. Then some people felt that like their entire

47
00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,200
Speaker 1: digestive tract was on fire. So obviously there have been

48
00:02:55,320 --> 00:03:00,679
Speaker 1: somebody that ingested something. I believe that would be the Yeah.

49
00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,799
Speaker 1: Probably there was intense cramping of hands, feet, and calves

50
00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:09,000
Speaker 1: in some cases, and the symptoms varied widely actually among

51
00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,600
Speaker 1: all the various people, but quite a few people were affected.

52
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,080
Speaker 1: A lot of people were affected with insomnia that people

53
00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,280
Speaker 1: were not able to sleep for several days. And within

54
00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,360
Speaker 1: two days of this beginning, about two fifty three people

55
00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,160
Speaker 1: started to go insane. And yeah, it must have been

56
00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,080
Speaker 1: It must have been really interesting to be living in

57
00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,760
Speaker 1: Paul Saisbrey in those days to be one of the

58
00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,800
Speaker 1: people who is not going insane, surrounded by a bunch

59
00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:41,320
Speaker 1: of insane people. Yeah, and wondering if you're going insane insane, Yeah,

60
00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,400
Speaker 1: that would be it would be weird. Yeah. Yeah, there's

61
00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,880
Speaker 1: a lot of people still alive who remember that whole

62
00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:49,920
Speaker 1: that whole thing. Few were all the time, of course,

63
00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:54,400
Speaker 1: because it happened. This sounds that that whole being around

64
00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,080
Speaker 1: a bunch of people who are going nuts and worrying.

65
00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:01,560
Speaker 1: If your next sounds like the plot of so many movies, Well,

66
00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,920
Speaker 1: it's just like the dancing plague. Yeah, I mean we've

67
00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:10,160
Speaker 1: and you know there's that the whole laughing sickness, laughter

68
00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,160
Speaker 1: sickness thing that we've not done an episode on yet.

69
00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:14,880
Speaker 1: But we haven't done that one. I mean, you know,

70
00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,480
Speaker 1: I think that's one of those things that's so I

71
00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,960
Speaker 1: just messes with your head kind of does. I hope

72
00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,440
Speaker 1: it doesn't happen to me. Psychosis. Yeah, there was a

73
00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,279
Speaker 1: recent case where it was an entire let's say it

74
00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,960
Speaker 1: was a junior high or a high school all came

75
00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:34,440
Speaker 1: down with Tourette's supposedly, and it was it was another

76
00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,240
Speaker 1: It was just kind of one of those weird group

77
00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:41,159
Speaker 1: psychosis things. Very odd. Yeah, it would be weird to

78
00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,000
Speaker 1: be the guy who's like, um, I'm not yelling, I'm

79
00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,080
Speaker 1: not screaming anybody and I don't I don't get it,

80
00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:47,960
Speaker 1: what's going on? Or am I and I just don't

81
00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,520
Speaker 1: know it. It's entirely possible. Where was I out? The

82
00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,839
Speaker 1: Time magazine covered it. They and they told how people

83
00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,680
Speaker 1: ran through the streets yelling that somebody was trying to

84
00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,840
Speaker 1: get them u people were, according to a person who

85
00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,240
Speaker 1: was interviewed who lived there at the time, people were

86
00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:08,000
Speaker 1: hitting each other and insulting one another. A small boy

87
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,520
Speaker 1: supported supposedly attempted to strangle his mother, although in some

88
00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,640
Speaker 1: tellings of this tale was his grandmother, and they were delirious,

89
00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,640
Speaker 1: people being tied to their beds. People screamed that red

90
00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,200
Speaker 1: flowers were coming out of their bodies. Yeah, I know

91
00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,680
Speaker 1: that would be I really don't want to have yeah, absolutely,

92
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,680
Speaker 1: uh yeah. Somebody said his head had turned to molten lead.

93
00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,039
Speaker 1: Another person thought his head had turned to copper. And

94
00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,839
Speaker 1: they were reportedly for suicide attempts and something. They were

95
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,640
Speaker 1: actually some successful suicides. Also, one guy claimed he was

96
00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,159
Speaker 1: just According to a witness who was interviewed in he

97
00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:45,920
Speaker 1: was he was standing in the window of a building

98
00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,520
Speaker 1: like two or three stories up and was shouting, look up,

99
00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,920
Speaker 1: a dragonfly and yeah, you know this is not going

100
00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,640
Speaker 1: to end well, right. Yeah. Luckily for him, he only

101
00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,839
Speaker 1: broke his legs. He didn't didn't kill himself, but yeah,

102
00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:03,239
Speaker 1: ouch apparently survived. Another man tried to drown himself because

103
00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,920
Speaker 1: he thought his body was being eaten by snakes. Another

104
00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,800
Speaker 1: guy claimed that he saw his heart escaping through his feet. Yea, yeah,

105
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,920
Speaker 1: he went to Yeah, that would be another unpleasant one. Yeah.

106
00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,799
Speaker 1: He's a serious set of trips. Uh. Yeah, these people

107
00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,640
Speaker 1: are really really really tripping here. Yeah yeah, big time. Uh.

108
00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,080
Speaker 1: There's a post been named Leon Mounier who was still

109
00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,880
Speaker 1: alive in when he was interviewed by the BBC. He

110
00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,640
Speaker 1: said he was doing his route and riding a bicycle

111
00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,440
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden he became nauseous and then

112
00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,760
Speaker 1: he started hallucinating, and he said, and I quote, I

113
00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,919
Speaker 1: had the sensation of shrinking and shrinking and the fire

114
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,400
Speaker 1: and the serpents coiling around my arms unquote. So that

115
00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,119
Speaker 1: sounds pretty intense. Yeah, yeah, it sounds like a Jim

116
00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,840
Speaker 1: Morrison song. Yeah. I was just gonna say it sounds

117
00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,440
Speaker 1: a bit like Alice in Wonderland. Yeah. But you know,

118
00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,919
Speaker 1: what's what's what's remarkable about this and you know, maybe

119
00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,359
Speaker 1: actually some people were hallucinating. They had pleasant hallucinations that

120
00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,280
Speaker 1: they were like, you know, you know, like romping through

121
00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,560
Speaker 1: a mountain met oh, and you know, by fluffy kittens,

122
00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,320
Speaker 1: you know, but apparently otherwise I'm hearing about are really horrible. Yeah,

123
00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,240
Speaker 1: so I want to have the trip where I'm surrounded

124
00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,000
Speaker 1: by fluffy kittens. Yeah, me too, Not the not the

125
00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,080
Speaker 1: snakes coiling one. No, I'd rather not have that one.

126
00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,640
Speaker 1: Back to our postman, he was taken to a hospital

127
00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,040
Speaker 1: and putting a straight jacket, and he was put in

128
00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,120
Speaker 1: a room with three teenagers who have been chained to

129
00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,240
Speaker 1: their beds, and apparently they spent several days in there,

130
00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,720
Speaker 1: and Leon the postman eventually came to a census. But

131
00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,560
Speaker 1: needless to say, he does not have good memories of

132
00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,520
Speaker 1: this whole thing. So this was the kind of thing

133
00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,560
Speaker 1: that people would go into and out of. And it

134
00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,600
Speaker 1: wasn't like the everybody was crazy at the same time.

135
00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:44,960
Speaker 1: It was kind of more I get intermittent, I think,

136
00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,640
Speaker 1: and for different people at different times. And it lasted

137
00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,200
Speaker 1: longer for some people than others. Yeah, and some people

138
00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,320
Speaker 1: recovered fairly quickly. Some people actually didn't hallucinate. They just

139
00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,360
Speaker 1: experienced some of the symptoms, like you know, the feverish

140
00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,920
Speaker 1: kind of feeling, and you know, the heartburn and the cramps,

141
00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,160
Speaker 1: but they never got as far as a hallucination thing. Interesting, Okay, yeah,

142
00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,360
Speaker 1: lucky for them, But some people really went around the bend.

143
00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,600
Speaker 1: In the end, somewhere between four and ten people died.

144
00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,040
Speaker 1: The accounts of Berry most of them that I see

145
00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,080
Speaker 1: say that seven died, but I've seen but the number

146
00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,360
Speaker 1: might actually be as low as four. I got that

147
00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,800
Speaker 1: number of a report by the National Institutes of Health

148
00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,480
Speaker 1: that was written two weeks after the incident. So this

149
00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:30,160
Speaker 1: this got into the press fairly quickly. Yeah. Yeah. Apparently

150
00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,520
Speaker 1: three of the four were old and in bad health already,

151
00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,600
Speaker 1: so and they died of cardiovascular collapse. One was a

152
00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,240
Speaker 1: young twenty six year old guy in good health, but

153
00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,520
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, uh, he thought he also died of

154
00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:46,320
Speaker 1: cardiovascular collapse. And that report was written beginning of September,

155
00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:48,920
Speaker 1: so it's possible there are a few people that died

156
00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,160
Speaker 1: after that. So it's really kind of hazy exactly. You mean,

157
00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:57,040
Speaker 1: from lingering effects of whatever they experienced, yeah, or suicide

158
00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,880
Speaker 1: or whatever. So it's just I'm still not totally sure

159
00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,600
Speaker 1: exactly how many people died, And of course people die anyway,

160
00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,960
Speaker 1: so it's hard to incidentally died, but not a huge

161
00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,760
Speaker 1: number of people, but still it's kind of weird. And

162
00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,400
Speaker 1: then forty six people were committed to asylums. I'm not

163
00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,560
Speaker 1: sure how long for I don't I don't know that

164
00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,680
Speaker 1: anybody had to be permanently committed because of this, but

165
00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,400
Speaker 1: this was an era where people loved to commit people

166
00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,880
Speaker 1: and just leave them there for a while. So like, yeah,

167
00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:29,880
Speaker 1: it wasn't like you just oh, we're just we're going

168
00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,600
Speaker 1: to commit you for some psychiatric help. You'll be there

169
00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:34,959
Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks, no big deal. It's like, oh, no,

170
00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:36,800
Speaker 1: we're going to commit you. Will see you in six

171
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,400
Speaker 1: months to a year, billy, or maybe for the rest

172
00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,240
Speaker 1: of your life, who knows. Yeah, it turns out it's

173
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,680
Speaker 1: incredibly hard once you've convinced somebody that you are insane,

174
00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,400
Speaker 1: to convince them that you aren't insane. Yeah, it's raw hard.

175
00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,040
Speaker 1: Whether Yeah, there's this story of the guy who was

176
00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,440
Speaker 1: trying to get out of some crime and so he

177
00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:59,480
Speaker 1: pled insanity and acted nuts and got himself put into

178
00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,280
Speaker 1: a mental facility and then once he was there, he's like,

179
00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,280
Speaker 1: after a while, he's like, I'm cured. You guys have

180
00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:10,480
Speaker 1: done a great job. We know better. Now you're you're

181
00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:15,200
Speaker 1: you're not actually better? Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. See how

182
00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,480
Speaker 1: did he ever get out? Oh gosh, I don't remember,

183
00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,040
Speaker 1: it's been so long since I've read about the story. Well,

184
00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,319
Speaker 1: definitely if I were if I was a doctor and

185
00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,360
Speaker 1: say that the crime carried a ten year sentence, I

186
00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,440
Speaker 1: probably wait ten years and said, I guess you're cured

187
00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:32,720
Speaker 1: after all? Yeah? Oh, where was I? All? In all,

188
00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,160
Speaker 1: about three d people were affected by this whole thing,

189
00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,719
Speaker 1: um and again, the intensity of the attacks and the

190
00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,760
Speaker 1: hallucinations varied quite a bit, but some people were permanently

191
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,560
Speaker 1: damaged and never really led normal lives again. They couldn't

192
00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:46,680
Speaker 1: hold down a job. They were just kind of weird

193
00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,120
Speaker 1: after that. You mean by damage, do you mean they

194
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:55,040
Speaker 1: were suffering some kind of psychosis, still suffering intermitting. Yeah,

195
00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,000
Speaker 1: it's just toughering intermitting, like hallucinations and things like that.

196
00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,560
Speaker 1: So it wasn't just like a little post trauma extress

197
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,320
Speaker 1: disorder stuff that could have something to do with it, too,

198
00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:04,559
Speaker 1: Or it could have been that they were just dead

199
00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:06,400
Speaker 1: beats who didn't want to actually have to have a job,

200
00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,079
Speaker 1: and they wanted to be on the form it was convenient.

201
00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:11,640
Speaker 1: That's it. I don't know. I don't know that unemployment

202
00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:13,920
Speaker 1: was great in the fifties, but yeah, no, probably not.

203
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:15,960
Speaker 1: I think that there's there are people out there who

204
00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:20,319
Speaker 1: are psychologically a little a little less stable than all

205
00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,640
Speaker 1: of us. Have something like this happened to you, it

206
00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,640
Speaker 1: could permanely. I can see where it could primarily damage you.

207
00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,240
Speaker 1: I don't even know that you would have to be,

208
00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,120
Speaker 1: you know, less stable than normal quote unquote, you know,

209
00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,160
Speaker 1: I think this is the sort of thing, particularly everybody

210
00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,560
Speaker 1: breaking well, and if you saw, if you were in

211
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,520
Speaker 1: really seeing kind of the most horrible stuff that was happening,

212
00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,560
Speaker 1: people screaming about these things happening to them, or you know,

213
00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,440
Speaker 1: guys saying that they could fly and jumping and you know,

214
00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:49,280
Speaker 1: things like that that could probably permanently damage almost anyone. Well,

215
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,959
Speaker 1: I could see it would leave you some pretty traumatic memories. Yeah. Well,

216
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:57,400
Speaker 1: And and the other thing is that that area has

217
00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:02,480
Speaker 1: a pretty it's a high Um, they're all fairly religious,

218
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:08,400
Speaker 1: it's mostly Catholics. Um, So there's there's a certain fire

219
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,840
Speaker 1: and brimstone aspect that you might have apocalyptic Yeah, so

220
00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,720
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I've gone to Hell and if you're

221
00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:22,440
Speaker 1: very devout, that would have some pretty traumatic effects on you.

222
00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,000
Speaker 1: Not good. Yeah, of course when you come back from hell,

223
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,560
Speaker 1: then hey, then what have I done? What do I

224
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,680
Speaker 1: gotta do? Right? I can never do? I mean like

225
00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,480
Speaker 1: this is one of those snowball situations. Or maybe you

226
00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:34,520
Speaker 1: are still in hell and you just don't know it. Yeah,

227
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:39,520
Speaker 1: we're all in hell. Possible that was playing something. Yeah, yeah, Actually,

228
00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,400
Speaker 1: of course things did get back to normal. Inquiries were made,

229
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,839
Speaker 1: and it turns out that everybody had been affected by

230
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,520
Speaker 1: this insanity had bought bread from a local baker whose

231
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:54,000
Speaker 1: name was Rock Beyond, and some people suspected of intentionally

232
00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,920
Speaker 1: poisoning his customers, although it doesn't look like he actually

233
00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,880
Speaker 1: did do it on purpose. Is this is a square

234
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,680
Speaker 1: a rectangle sort of situation where everyone who was sick

235
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,960
Speaker 1: had bought bread from him, but not everyone who bought

236
00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,160
Speaker 1: bread from him was sick? Or was it like no,

237
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,760
Speaker 1: literally everybody who got sick were the only people who

238
00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,880
Speaker 1: bought bread from him. You know, I don't know, but

239
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,240
Speaker 1: I would I would suggest nobody. I don't think anybody

240
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,800
Speaker 1: goes and buys bread and doesn't eat at least some

241
00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,280
Speaker 1: of it. Well, I just mean, you know, so if

242
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,240
Speaker 1: he's the only baker in town, right, and there's five

243
00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,200
Speaker 1: thousand people there, and all five thousand have bought bread

244
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:32,280
Speaker 1: from him, but only three hundred got sick, versus only

245
00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,400
Speaker 1: those three hundred people bought bread from him and ate

246
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,120
Speaker 1: it and got sick, Devin is asking is it all

247
00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:44,679
Speaker 1: or some only is some of his customers? Because um,

248
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,679
Speaker 1: and we'll get into this more later on. But but

249
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:49,760
Speaker 1: there were certain products that he made that may have

250
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,360
Speaker 1: been tainted, but not necessarily all of them. Okay, yeah, okay,

251
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,160
Speaker 1: I just feel like that's an important thing. But yeah,

252
00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,480
Speaker 1: none of the other bakers in town had sold bread

253
00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:04,800
Speaker 1: to these people were having problems. Yeah, it doesn't look

254
00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,560
Speaker 1: like he did it on purpose, though. They traced his

255
00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:11,040
Speaker 1: grain that he'd used back to a supplier in another town.

256
00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,040
Speaker 1: I can't remember. I came across it and I should

257
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,520
Speaker 1: have written it down. Now I can't find it again.

258
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,679
Speaker 1: I hate that because the Internet has moved the link

259
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:23,960
Speaker 1: on your computer to somewhere else. The Internet shift today. Yes, yeah,

260
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,640
Speaker 1: that turned They decided that they had sold broke beyond

261
00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,880
Speaker 1: a tainted batch of grain. And I'm assuming this is

262
00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:32,480
Speaker 1: the old old days. I mean, I don't know if

263
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,720
Speaker 1: they actually supplied him with flour or if they gave

264
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,600
Speaker 1: him grain and then he grounded up himself. That's a

265
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,720
Speaker 1: good question. Yeah, I don't know. In the fifties, probably

266
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:45,160
Speaker 1: the flower could it could be mass production was not

267
00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,720
Speaker 1: as ingrained well as it is now. Yeah, especially in

268
00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,160
Speaker 1: some of these little old villages. And you know that,

269
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,800
Speaker 1: I think probably pretty old school. I guess it's just

270
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,240
Speaker 1: my bias to assume when somebody says his supplier, I

271
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,400
Speaker 1: think you would think that that produced. But you're right

272
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,400
Speaker 1: efficient to grind, to grind it all in one place

273
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,640
Speaker 1: and make it into flour, you know, and then send

274
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:08,840
Speaker 1: the flower out of the bakers. Chicken Little did teach

275
00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,480
Speaker 1: me that it's true? Yeah, right, it was Chicken Little,

276
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:13,080
Speaker 1: good old Chicken Little. I don't know if this guy

277
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,520
Speaker 1: is falling. Oh no, it was the other chicken, the

278
00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,480
Speaker 1: one that made the bread did everything. Um, really, I

279
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,080
Speaker 1: think you're hallucinating. I don't. I don't think any chicken

280
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:28,320
Speaker 1: ever made any bread. But my chickens have never made bread. Well,

281
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:32,240
Speaker 1: any long story short, it appears that our good old

282
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:37,040
Speaker 1: friend Ergot was the cause of the poison. Officially officially

283
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,320
Speaker 1: if as you know, if you've listened to past episodes,

284
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,720
Speaker 1: the only culprit that we blame more than air goot

285
00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:46,560
Speaker 1: is choopy, good old choopy. It's not lupus. Yeah, but

286
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:48,680
Speaker 1: air goot if you don't know, it is a fungus

287
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,280
Speaker 1: that grows on rye plants um, which is, by the way,

288
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:55,880
Speaker 1: the reason I've stopped eating rye bread. I like rye,

289
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:57,840
Speaker 1: you know, I really do. I don't think I don't

290
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,560
Speaker 1: think I got something that like people get in modern days.

291
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:03,480
Speaker 1: Probably not. I think the kind of bread that you

292
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:04,960
Speaker 1: would be buying, kind of rye bread you would be

293
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,600
Speaker 1: buying would be pretty heavily processed and probably fungus free.

294
00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:10,600
Speaker 1: Oh cool, Maybe I'll start eating it again, you should.

295
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:12,160
Speaker 1: I think the main thing is just not to let

296
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,800
Speaker 1: it get too old. Yeah, well, obviously, don't let it

297
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,280
Speaker 1: get moldy. Yeah, I know that. There's don't just don't

298
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,560
Speaker 1: let any of your bread get moldy. That pretty much, yeah. Um.

299
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:23,960
Speaker 1: And the other thing to watch is peanuts. There's a

300
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,240
Speaker 1: there's a mold that grows on peanuts that is really

301
00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,600
Speaker 1: deadly destroy your liver. So yeah, maybe that's why I

302
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,200
Speaker 1: feel like crap. All Yeah, I don't eat old nuts.

303
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,720
Speaker 1: That are you work too much? Anyway. The most believed

304
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,800
Speaker 1: theory so far is air got poisoning. But of course

305
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,080
Speaker 1: there are others, of course, of course, but the first

306
00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,720
Speaker 1: one is is is of course air got we're getting

307
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,960
Speaker 1: in our theories. Now, So did Rothebrian get a batch

308
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,280
Speaker 1: of flower that was tainted by ergo fungus? It seems possible,

309
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:58,119
Speaker 1: there's this though, well there are it's it's it's possible.

310
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,480
Speaker 1: I mean, there could have been a batch, a batch

311
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,280
Speaker 1: that was processed that by a supplier. Then we're gonna,

312
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,080
Speaker 1: i guess, assume for the sake of assuming that it

313
00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,040
Speaker 1: was sent to him as flour bags of flower. So

314
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,040
Speaker 1: imagine that you've got this whole, huge batch of grain

315
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,400
Speaker 1: and there's a tiny little bit of it that's affected

316
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,760
Speaker 1: with God, and so you grind it all up, dump

317
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,119
Speaker 1: it into bag, and just as luck has it, it

318
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:21,840
Speaker 1: all winds up in just one bag and not in

319
00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,439
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of bags. Well, or maybe some of

320
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,160
Speaker 1: it got distributed to other bags, but in small enough

321
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,840
Speaker 1: quantities that um, it didn't really afflict too many people.

322
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,120
Speaker 1: My two cents on that is one, again, we're making

323
00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,960
Speaker 1: the assumption that this is a large scale supplier. It's

324
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,640
Speaker 1: possible that it's just a farm that only supplied him,

325
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,359
Speaker 1: right or you know, him and one other people. But

326
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,520
Speaker 1: we're also assuming that it came to him with or

327
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,720
Speaker 1: got in it. Is it not possible that he got

328
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:54,040
Speaker 1: the flower or maybe the the grain and just let

329
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,040
Speaker 1: it sit for a little while he was ordered in

330
00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,159
Speaker 1: bulk or something like that. And that's exactly what I

331
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,800
Speaker 1: was thinking. Actually it could have been Actually you could

332
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,840
Speaker 1: have caused it, not intentionally, but just to slightly negligent

333
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,399
Speaker 1: behavior by letting it lay around. I mean we've all experienced,

334
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,680
Speaker 1: you know, like when something gets pushed to the back

335
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,320
Speaker 1: of the fridge and you kind of forget about it

336
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,040
Speaker 1: and then you discover it like long later, and oh wow,

337
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,480
Speaker 1: it's like scary looking. Yeah, I mean, you know, I

338
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,960
Speaker 1: think one of the things, right, is it's possible also

339
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,639
Speaker 1: when you go to the store and they're like meat

340
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,720
Speaker 1: on sale super Slash, and you go, oh, that's a

341
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,720
Speaker 1: great deal, without thinking, well, it's probably on sale because

342
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,119
Speaker 1: they got to get rid of it, because it's going

343
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,480
Speaker 1: to go bad and sticks on it so you can't

344
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,600
Speaker 1: see the I love how they do that. Sneaky, but

345
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,639
Speaker 1: I mean it's possible, right Also that you know, he

346
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:42,720
Speaker 1: just got a batch that was a little older and

347
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,560
Speaker 1: he didn't realize it was older, and then he let

348
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,239
Speaker 1: it sit for a little too long and then just

349
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,200
Speaker 1: made some bread with it. And that's you know, actually,

350
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,120
Speaker 1: I really you know, I'm really leaning towards that myself,

351
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,080
Speaker 1: because yeah, I think that's probably what happens. Can I

352
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,320
Speaker 1: can I ask you a question, because it's been so

353
00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:01,280
Speaker 1: long since we've talked about or got that I don't remember.

354
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:06,200
Speaker 1: Does cooking the bread not destroy the toxin? Well, that's

355
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:07,840
Speaker 1: the part that I don't know. I was trying to

356
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 1: do a little research on that and I couldn't find

357
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,520
Speaker 1: out one way or the other. Um And I really

358
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:16,200
Speaker 1: honestly don't know because generally speaking, in cases of air

359
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,320
Speaker 1: got poisoning, it's usually bread that's already been baked and

360
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,760
Speaker 1: sitting around for too long. Right, Yeah, So it's it's

361
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,280
Speaker 1: old bread. So that's why that's why I'm asking this,

362
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:29,399
Speaker 1: because the grain having it doesn't seem to be as

363
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,840
Speaker 1: much of a culprit to me. If then he threw

364
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,560
Speaker 1: it into an oven and cooked it. He's you know,

365
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,719
Speaker 1: he's cooked it off unless it's sitting it's in the grain,

366
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,680
Speaker 1: and then it jumps from the grain to the loaves

367
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,160
Speaker 1: of cooked bread that are sitting around that have cooled

368
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,560
Speaker 1: off and therefore are a perfect host to get. Well,

369
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,680
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. That's always possible too. I guess,

370
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:58,080
Speaker 1: so all our bakers don't store your freshly baked bread

371
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:02,720
Speaker 1: on top of your flower supply good idea. Yeah, well

372
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:04,560
Speaker 1: you know have you know, but you probably noticed that

373
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,719
Speaker 1: a lot of bread, what they do is after they

374
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:14,360
Speaker 1: baked it, before it actually like cools, they sprinkle like bread. Yeah,

375
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,399
Speaker 1: I mean, so that's a possibility. Is that actually the

376
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:19,720
Speaker 1: air got that was in it when it got baked

377
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 1: was maybe killed off, but they sprinkled fresh stuff on top. Uh.

378
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 1: The other thing that I was seeing when I was

379
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,239
Speaker 1: like reading about air got and bread is that, at

380
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 1: least in modern times, they see the most instances of

381
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:39,440
Speaker 1: the ergot being developed in baked bread when it's put

382
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,879
Speaker 1: directly with um, without being able to be cooled sufficiently,

383
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 1: put directly into plastic bags because the moisture in um.

384
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 1: So I wonder if it's possible that he was bagging

385
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,240
Speaker 1: his bread before it was, you know, in plastic bags,

386
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,159
Speaker 1: and none of the other bakers in town were they

387
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 1: were letting it air drying away. I don't think. I

388
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 1: don't think they were using plastic bags, and those would

389
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 1: be a evalent. I mean the paper would you know,

390
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,119
Speaker 1: you got to the baker sometimes and you get that

391
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 1: kind of waxy paper, you know, what your paper, and

392
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 1: they'll they'll sometimes I've been to places where they'll just

393
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,440
Speaker 1: wrap it in that and give it to you in that.

394
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 1: It could be a situation like that, I think, yeah,

395
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 1: And that's because that traps the moisture from the Yeah.

396
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 1: So that's an idea too, that he was packaging his

397
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 1: bread differently, which was causing it to mold. Could be

398
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 1: all right, Well, so that's it. I mean, the air

399
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 1: got theory is one of the prevalent theories out there.

400
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,119
Speaker 1: There's some other ones that are kind of interesting. Well,

401
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 1: but here's here's the one thing about the air got

402
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 1: that I have an issue with is that how, if

403
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,399
Speaker 1: indeed it came from the source that he gets his

404
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 1: flower or his grain from, how is it he's the

405
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 1: only one that got it? That is the problem with that.

406
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 1: I think that again my thoughts, my thoughts on it,

407
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: or that probably just you share a lot coming to

408
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,920
Speaker 1: Probably the fungus started growing in some grain in a

409
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 1: small mass and a small mass, and it hadn't had

410
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 1: time to really spread out a lot. It got ground

411
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,639
Speaker 1: up and probably wind up in one bag of flower

412
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,400
Speaker 1: that went to his place. If this is what's happening,

413
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 1: I could see that happening. Have you ever seen how

414
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 1: flowers made? I mean, they grind that stuff up and

415
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 1: it gets stirred up. The chances of it, I guess

416
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 1: what I'm getting at is the chances of it that

417
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 1: that little mass of it staying together once it was

418
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,880
Speaker 1: ground into flower. He's pretty small. Yeah, But again we're

419
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 1: assuming that it came to him as flower, and it

420
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,679
Speaker 1: came to him from a large enough supplier that they

421
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,640
Speaker 1: were spins, which we don't know either of those things.

422
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 1: There's so many things we don't know. I'm going to

423
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 1: stop complaining about a thing, all right, Let's move on

424
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,880
Speaker 1: to another theory. It has been proposed that this pot

425
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 1: of might have been some sort of contamination or maybe

426
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 1: even intentional poisoning of the water supply. And I'm not

427
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 1: going to spend a lot of time on this one

428
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: because it actually is, in terms of actual percentages, not

429
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 1: that many people were really affected with insanity, and I

430
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 1: think something like six or seven percent. And it's hard

431
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 1: to say because I don't have a totally clear number

432
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: of exactly how many people were affected, and I also

433
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 1: don't know precisely what the population of the town was

434
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 1: in those days. I can say the other thing we

435
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: don't know is where in the town the people who

436
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: were affected lived. Were they clustered in one neighborhood or

437
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 1: were they randomly spread about. I'm assuming they were all

438
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 1: like fairly clustered around to run that one bakery, probably

439
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,239
Speaker 1: reasonably close because I'm sure the village had more than

440
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 1: one bakery, and you probably went to the one that

441
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: was closest to although this guy apparently apparently had a

442
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 1: reputation as the best baker in town. Yea, so he

443
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: might have got it. There might have been people coming

444
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 1: form all over and it's not really a huge town,

445
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 1: so it's not that hard to bicycle over to his bakery.

446
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 1: And it's true because when it was ten thousand people, yeah,

447
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,120
Speaker 1: five thousand people, yes, not that huge, not not really,

448
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 1: I mean I could see maybe he was the only baker, right,

449
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 1: I really really doubt it. I'd be surprised. I would

450
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: be surprised too. Yeah. But anyway, the contamination of the

451
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: water supply, that would have affected a lot more people

452
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: than what my estimation of six or seven percent of

453
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: the population were affected. So I think it would have

454
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 1: affected everybody except for the town alcoholic who only drank wine. Yeah,

455
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: you know, I think we can rule that one out.

456
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 1: What do you guys think? I'm okay? All right? Another

457
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 1: theory that's been proposed is mercury poisoning. This would apparently

458
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 1: be there caused by this thing, this product called Panagen,

459
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: which was a cleansing agent that was used in weak containers.

460
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: I don't know if they're using it anymore, but apparently

461
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: it's mercury based. Probably not using it anymore, Yeah, probably not.

462
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: As soon as you said that, yeah, probably nixed that.

463
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: Probably not. And And actually, you know, mercury poison poisoning

464
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: that the symptoms of it, I've looked it up and

465
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: then they were actually very consistent with most of the

466
00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 1: medical symptoms that people experience. It causes a lot of cramping, apping,

467
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: and you know, chills and hypertension, you know, and a

468
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 1: hypernailchycardia and all kinds of stuff and so of sweating,

469
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: a lot of sweating and excessive salivating and stuff like that.

470
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: All these are all things that people were experiencing. But

471
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: mercury poisoning does not include hallucinations total craziness. So I

472
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: don't know what to say. There's still people that are

473
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: kind of putting this theory out there, but at least

474
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 1: I have never in my admittedly brief research and mercury poisoning,

475
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: I've never seen anything about hallucinations or psychotic behavior or anything. Yeah. No,

476
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: that's that's not something that you hear about, so I

477
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 1: could see why. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not

478
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 1: willing to be on board with mercury poisoning just because

479
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 1: of that. Okay, these series are just too thin. Uh.

480
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: Another theory is that Briand of the Baker uh might

481
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: have actually done something a little bit illicit which caused

482
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 1: us to happen. So inadvertently, Yeah, inadvertently, of course, but

483
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: but from all accounts, he took great pride in the

484
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 1: whiteness of his bread and apparently back in the day.

485
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's still the case now, but

486
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 1: in those days of French like their bread as white

487
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: as it could possibly be. Yeah, yeah, seriously, I don't

488
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: know if you've been there lately that they still like

489
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: it white. No, I haven't been there in like thirteen years,

490
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: but when we were there, yeah, they liked it white.

491
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: I have a friend who just went, and I mean,

492
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 1: they seem they like their crusty bread, though I don't know.

493
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: I have no idea. They were yelling at me. I

494
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 1: had no idea what they're saying, what their bread was

495
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: yelling like there like white, my bread is about the

496
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: past I'm like, why are they so angry? You weren't angry.

497
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: They were just bragging about their white bread. They're just

498
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 1: really proud. Yeah. Well yeah, so could it be that

499
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 1: the baker used some chemicals to bleach his flour and

500
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,239
Speaker 1: accidentally sort of poisoned everybody. The series was put put

501
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: out by a guy named Stephen Kaplan who published a

502
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 1: book in two thousand and eight, and it's not devoted entirely.

503
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: It's apparently like a thousand page book. I haven't read it,

504
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: but I've read some reviews and summations of it and stuff,

505
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: and it's about a lot more than than just poncent espre.

506
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: It's it's a lot about that that era in France.

507
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: And but yeah, that's some stuff in there. And he

508
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: argues in the book that somebody, perhaps a certain baker,

509
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 1: using nitrogen trichloride to bleach his flower and doesn't have

510
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: other than that as a theory, doesn't really provide any

511
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: evidence to speak of the no no no spoken gun

512
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: no no discarded bottles of nitrogen trichloride or anything like that.

513
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: But it was actually used commonly to bleach flower, but

514
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: way back in the day um And apparently, according to Wikipedia,

515
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: it was banned for that use in nine um, although

516
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,360
Speaker 1: the page contradicts itself and says in the next sentence

517
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 1: that it was banned in nineteen seven internationally banned, banned

518
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 1: in France. That's a good question. I don't know, banned

519
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: in the small southern county of France. Why this is

520
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 1: why we use Wikipedia for the very general overusing them

521
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: dig in and it I mean I tried to dig

522
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: in and I couldn't find anything that I'm guessing that

523
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: they're citing multiple sources. And that's the problem is that

524
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: there the location, what's making the discrepancy. Yeah, you can't

525
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: tell you obviously, you can't really ban anything worldwide, just

526
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: doesn't can't really be done now. Um, but it's it

527
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: sounds like it was if it had fallen from favor,

528
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: apparently kind of dangerous. It turns out the problem that

529
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: I have with this theory is that it was commonly

530
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: used prior to when it was banned for bleaching flower,

531
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: and so if this caused that kind of outbreak of insanity,

532
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: then that wouldn't that would have We would have had

533
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: lots and lots of instances of this kind of mass

534
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: outbreak of insanity prior to ninety nine or wherever it

535
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: was banned, Right, unless he was over bleaching his flower, well,

536
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,959
Speaker 1: it might be. It might be that he wasn't actually

537
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: doing it quite correctly and maybe he used too much, Right,

538
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: that's why he had the whitest bread. Everyone else was like,

539
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: how's he getting this bread so white? Without killing people? Oh?

540
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: Killed somebody? Yeah? Okay, yeah. So but anyway, I'm not

541
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: really liking this series because I really do think that

542
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: there would have been at least some instances as it's

543
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: happening in other places. Yeah, you would think that this

544
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: would not be an isolated event. Yeah, yeah, but so

545
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: it's possible, but I don't think so. Um, he actually

546
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: died broke and kind of an outcast. Apparently a lot

547
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: of people were suspicious of them, even though I think

548
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: it's it appears that he was probably innocent of any wrongdoing.

549
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: But unfortunately for him, you know, obviously it's not just

550
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: not good for business. Dude, and they all get sick, Well,

551
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: that's going to kill your business. Yeah, what's the burrito

552
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: place that's having all the trouble? Oh yeah, okay, and

553
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: they're not really having trouble anymore though. Well, but there

554
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: was a huge backlash and for a while because they

555
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: had to come in and get your free burrito because

556
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: we're sorry, we got you sick, and your free burrito

557
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: got you sick. There's just there's things. Is it just

558
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: people don't forgive. There's people who will never go back

559
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: to that joint. I'm one now, Yeah, I know, but

560
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: you know that the thing is the coolie outbreaks like

561
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: that they take place all over the place. I know.

562
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: It's like, I'm sure, I'm sure these guys are being

563
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: extract or careful. Oh yeah, they were completely you know,

564
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: it wasn't I don't think that was their fault. It's

565
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: not like they were saying that their burritos got better

566
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: diesel mileage than it actually did relying to the public.

567
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: That's a different company. Yeah, that's a good point. I

568
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: don't I don't know what company you're possibly talking about,

569
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: but yeah, well so anyway, saying nitrogen track chloride, I

570
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: think we can knock out of the theory. I would say, yes, yeah, okay,

571
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: that comes to you get another theory, which is it

572
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: was the CIA. Yeah, and their theories out there about

573
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: this MK ultra. I'm sure you guys have heard of it. Yeah,

574
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: and n LSD and there wasn't there There wasn't indeed

575
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: an mk Ultra program that began in the nineteen fifties

576
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: and it did exist in reality. It's like, it's not

577
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: just a conspiracy theory. Mean, a lot of people have

578
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: run with it, so it's like, you know, not quite

579
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: as incredibly insanely conspiratorial as a lot of people make

580
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,719
Speaker 1: it out to me. But they did did some interesting stuff,

581
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: probably sounded it a little bit unethical. I was gonna say,

582
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: it's by interesting to you mean un uh God, I

583
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: can't even think of the word where nobody was on

584
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: board with it. They didn't know they were unwilling participants,

585
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: and yeah, they unwittingly and the people were unwittingly being

586
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: poisoned or drugged up and things like that. So yeah,

587
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: I guess that was a little shady um. But there

588
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: was a guy named there's a guy named Hank albert Elli,

589
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: and you can see interview footage of interviews up on

590
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: the internet if you want to, if you want to

591
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: do a little google his name, and he published a

592
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: book in two thousand nine claiming that the sea. Alternatively,

593
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: I've heard that he claims that they used aerosol spraying

594
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: of LSD over the village as an experiment, or or

595
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: he poisoned. He actually poisoned the bread coming out of

596
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: this guy's bakery and his is there. He did a

597
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: lot of research. He claims to have found all sorts

598
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: of secret documents that make reference to this, and he

599
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: he did a lot of he was doing a lot

600
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: of research into the death of Frank Olsen, who some

601
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: of you might have heard about. I think he's somewhere

602
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: on our list of whole mysteries that we haven't actually jumped. Yeah,

603
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: then he doesn't ring a Bell. But yeah, he was

604
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: a biochemist that worked with the Special Operations Division or

605
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: s o D. And he jumped out of the thirteenth

606
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: floor of a hotel in New York City in nineteen

607
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: fifty three. And there's a theory out there that he

608
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: was actually thrown out that window, yeah, or maybe he

609
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: just jumped out of Now. Albaretti was looking into the

610
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: death of Frank Olson when he came across some references

611
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: to Saint sant A Spree and uh, and so he

612
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: made sort of made that connection. Apparently it is his

613
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: belief that Frank Olsen was was working with s o

614
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: D and that he was part of the operation that

615
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,479
Speaker 1: poisoned the people of the town. You know, that's his car,

616
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: you know what was there actually an operation? Well we'll

617
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: talk about that. But apparently his this theory is is

618
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: that Frank Olsen was murdered because he was actually become

619
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: disillusioned and wanted to go public or at least had

620
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: been been a little too loose lipped about the whole thing,

621
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: and he was seen as a security threat, so he

622
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: was murdered. Yeah. Well, the thing that people cite to

623
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: back this up a lot is that this company called

624
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: sand As in Switzerland, Sands Chemical. Yeah, they are the

625
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: ones who apparently sold LSD to the CIA for the

626
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: mk Ultra project. And apparently they are also the ones

627
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: who conducted the investigation in the town and said, oh yeah, no,

628
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: it's totally got huh. Yeah. I have heard that too,

629
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: and I don't know. I haven't seen anything to back

630
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: that up. I haven't either, but I've seen that. I've

631
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: seen that numerous places, but it all seems to emanate

632
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: for one sorous, which is Hank Albertrelli. Yeah, so there's

633
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: a couple of problems with this. There just a couple.

634
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: Oh well, there's a couple of money. Yeah, let's start

635
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: with the fact that I have never actually heard of

636
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: anybody successfully making LSD into an aerosol spray. But do

637
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,720
Speaker 1: you know how you have how what has to happen

638
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 1: for LSD to affect you. You have to ingest it.

639
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: You can't get it on your skin as far as

640
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: I understand, and and maybe these maybe crazy high dosages

641
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: will do it. But from what I understand is that

642
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: you have to ingest it. It breaks, It can break

643
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 1: down relatively quickly in the sunlight. So think about it.

644
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: It's August. It's probably warm, it's probably sunny. That's why

645
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: there's always the stories of people who will have the

646
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: blotterer paper that they'll they'll have out for a while,

647
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: sitting in the sunshine, and then they'll they'll go to

648
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: take their hits of acid and find out that it's

649
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: no good anymore because it's broke down. I store my

650
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: acid in the fridge. That's the only place to keep it.

651
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: What's to say that that, um, they weren't aerosol canning it,

652
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: that they were dosing his bread with it. Okay, keep

653
00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: their bread out of the sun, Okay, So I'm not

654
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say that it's not has nothing

655
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 1: to do with them directly treating the bread. I think

656
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: that's assigning a higher level of conspiracy to the whole thing.

657
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: Let's just say that they're flying over the town. They

658
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 1: can't spray LSD. You have to ingest it if it

659
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: touches your skin. Is at least the research that I did,

660
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: It doesn't do anything. It's not strong enough to penetrate.

661
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 1: Was this research sticking LSD on your skin and seeing

662
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:33,359
Speaker 1: what happened and not just hailing it through This drug

663
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: is not one that I went ahead and tested. There's

664
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: another one that we'll talk about, but this one, no, well,

665
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: there was there was some experimentation with the idea of

666
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: using LSD as a weapon, and the idea of being

667
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 1: that there are certain chemicals. As far as I know,

668
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,760
Speaker 1: I can't there's there's one that I was. It doesn't

669
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: come to mind right now, but if facilitates the absorption

670
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: of a drug through your skin, so you mix that

671
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,720
Speaker 1: up with the LSD and then you drop like LSD

672
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: bombs on the enemy, they explode and sad and spray

673
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: to spray them down, and then all these enemy soldiers

674
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: and you don't have to shoot him at all. You

675
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 1: just walk in there and just and just haul him

676
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: off to the prison camp or wherever you're gonna take it.

677
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: Here's a flower, he filled out, here's a flower he

678
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: felled out. Yeah, here's a word. He fell down. So,

679
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: you know, it could have been. It could be that

680
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: some sort of experimentation with chemicals mixed with LSD that

681
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: would actually cause everybody to get high. But my my

682
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: big problem with this as an experiment, whether they did

683
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,240
Speaker 1: that the RSL spraying, or if they actually deliberately tainted

684
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: the bread, If they taint, they tainted the flower that

685
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: was made into the bread. The LSD would not survive

686
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: making process. Not no, it totally wouldn't. It would have

687
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: to be applied posting process. So they unless the baker

688
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 1: was actually conspiring with them, maybe they were putting it

689
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: in the butter that he was giving out complimentary I

690
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: like that idea. Yeah, here's your you know actually, you know, actually,

691
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,320
Speaker 1: when you think about it, this could actually totally be

692
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 1: a case of contaminated butter. And then and the baker

693
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: totally totally got a finger for this unfairly. Yeah, maybe

694
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: it was contaminated butter, because do we have read without butter? Um? Sometimes,

695
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: but it's usually like a sandwich French Actually, the French

696
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: put butter on their sandwich is usually so Yeah, it

697
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: could have could have been butter, could be, but it

698
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: could have been something bad cow um. Yeah. The other

699
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: thing I don't like about this is it was an

700
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: experiment supposedly, and there they had this whole research program

701
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: called them k Ultra and by the way, I'm kulture

702
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 1: didn't actually begin or get funding until nineteen fifty three.

703
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: There might might a better precursory program, some sort of predecessor.

704
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: But the thing about it was is they did conduct

705
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 1: a lot of experiments and with drugging people and seeing

706
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: what they could do in terms of brainwashing them or

707
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: controlling them and stuff like that. It didn't really in

708
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: the end worked out. Eventually they just dropped it because

709
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 1: you just couldn't get reliable results. But if you're doing

710
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: experiments like this, the way experiments work is you have

711
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 1: to control things. If you just put it in the

712
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,919
Speaker 1: bread and see what's happened, and and and some guy

713
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: has a slice and another guy picks down half a loaf,

714
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 1: well you you're not You're not controlling the dosage at all.

715
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 1: And also, how are you going to observe the results?

716
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: You know, a bunch of guys show up in this village,

717
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: total strangers show up, and everybody's going nuts. By the way,

718
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: and as these guys with clipboards taking notes, how it's

719
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: supposed to work, Well, maybe it's I mean, maybe it's

720
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,240
Speaker 1: that they were the ones who came in and investigated,

721
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: right or quote unquote investigated, and so they're doing all

722
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: these questionings like okay, well how much did he have? Okay,

723
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: so what were his symptoms? And that's a way to

724
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: anecdotally collect evidence. Obviously it's not good evidence data collection.

725
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 1: But I don't from what I understand about a lot

726
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: of mk ultra's alleged things, not the actual i'm ka

727
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: Ultra stuff, but the alleged mk ultra stuff, they didn't

728
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 1: really care. I mean, it wasn't like scientific, we've got

729
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 1: the test group and we've got the control group, and

730
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: we really care about it. It was kind of like,

731
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: I don't, let's see what happens. I don't. I really

732
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: don't think it would happen that way because I don't

733
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: think so either, because it's it's kind of useless information.

734
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,439
Speaker 1: If you don't have a control group and you haven't

735
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: controlled the dosage is to see what is just gonna do,

736
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: it's kind of useless. Yeah, you think, although, in in fairness,

737
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: if you're testing it for well, if you're testing it

738
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: for something similar to let's just drop a bomb, you

739
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: don't really care what exact dosage. You care about the

740
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 1: overall effect on the group that's affected, right, because if

741
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 1: you're if you're going to use it as a weapon,

742
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: it's not okay, and each single person is going to

743
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 1: get exactly this dose. It's like, how does it affect

744
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: these three hundred people that ingested it. Do they all

745
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: go crazy? Do some of them go crazy? Maybe maybe

746
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: they try to deploy it to you know, a thousand

747
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: people and only those three hundred, So that would be

748
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: valuable data as well, because you wouldn't it's not scientific

749
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: the way that they're trying to deploy it. It's scientific,

750
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's true to the science of them

751
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: deploying in this kind of hypothetical we just dropped a bomb. Way.

752
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: But here's the other problem that I have with it

753
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: is that France was a NATO ally, Um, it would

754
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 1: just seem more logical to go do this in a

755
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: village in Mexico or something someplace that actually didn't. Yeah,

756
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: I mean that would that would make a lot more

757
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: sense to me, I agree, or even ally even a

758
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: small town in the US. I mean, you know, I'm

759
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: doing it in France. That's ridiculous. It just seems it

760
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: just seems strange random that that was the location chosen. Yeah,

761
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: that's why. I mean, maybe there's something about it. I

762
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 1: don't know. You've done with that theory. Yeah, Well, I

763
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,479
Speaker 1: I have a slightly different theory LSD. It is drug

764
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,399
Speaker 1: based but it's different than LST. So let's roll back

765
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: here with a little bit of senseus data that I

766
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 1: found in in France, the population was essentially atheists were religious.

767
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: I couldn't really in my quick digging find the number

768
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 1: that were Catholic. But let's just say I'm just gonna

769
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: grab a number and say that the population is Catholic. Okay, okay,

770
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: of the town is Catholic. Well, this happened on the

771
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: fift August. Do you know what happens on the fifteenth

772
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 1: of August every year August? It's also observed is the

773
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: assumption of Mary. The assumption of Mary is well, what

774
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 1: I think is going on? So the assumption of Mary

775
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: is it's it's an observation based on the belief that

776
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: Mary was actually assumed into Heaven after she passed away,

777
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: rather than left in the ground like the rest of us.

778
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: Pleads um. And so what they do is they celebrate that.

779
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 1: And there are there are feasts, and there are meals,

780
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: and there are things like that. So we're gonna say

781
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: that we've got a Catholic portion of the population taking

782
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: part in that. The other thing that I looked at

783
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: was I started trying to find what else has similar symptoms?

784
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: And do you tell what has a very similar set

785
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: of symptoms Magic mushrooms. Oh yeah, magic mushrooms cause stomach cramps.

786
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: They cause intestinal cramps. They caused some crazy hallucinations in

787
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: people who get enough of them. I'm not going to

788
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: say how I know this, but I do know that

789
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 1: it does some terrible things to your maybe if you, oh, deed,

790
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 1: I know if you ode that I have. Actually I'll

791
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: admit it. I've done some shrooms. Yeah, I never but

792
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,839
Speaker 1: I never imagined. Of course, maybe I didn't take enough.

793
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: I never imagined I was being eaten my snakes or

794
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: I had red flowers sprouting out of my body. Okay,

795
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 1: So I have known people who have taken a lot

796
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: at one time and we're seriously fried. They were frying

797
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: for a while, and they were having some of these

798
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 1: same physical symptoms. And think about magic mushrooms. It's a poison.

799
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: That's what your body does, that is trying to get

800
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: rid of it. Like they they picked the wrong mushroom

801
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: for some dish, and the group gets together and some

802
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 1: people just like you were talking about with the bread,

803
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 1: where it's one guy gets one a slice and the

804
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,959
Speaker 1: other guy wolves down half a loaf. Well, this could

805
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: be that somebody made this giant batch of some dish

806
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 1: and some people ate one and feel good, but they

807
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: were all right, and then a couple of people just

808
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: just wolfed it down and got massive amounts of a

809
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 1: hallucinogenic mushroom which would set them off. And it's it's

810
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 1: not like mushrooms come on immediately. Then there is a

811
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 1: build up period before it starts to happen, and the

812
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 1: peak is long, depending on how much somebody has taken.

813
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 1: So I'm looking at this and thinking, I actually think

814
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,839
Speaker 1: that this is not our God. I'm gonna actually want

815
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 1: to clear it, but I think that this is more

816
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: of a magic mushroom scenario, and maybe we're gonna say something.

817
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: I was just going to mention if we're going to

818
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: the religious Catholic ceremony route, Um, it's not unheard of.

819
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: He got to grow in wine, It's true. Yeah, there's that.

820
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:19,399
Speaker 1: Or you were telling us earlier the wafers, So there's

821
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 1: a So this is why this is why you were

822
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: talking about earlier, Joe, when you were saying maybe the

823
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: Bakers kind of getting a bad rap, And I accord

824
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: with that, because there's just so many other ways that

825
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 1: it could have happened besides this one thing. Oh yeah, absolutely,

826
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:39,320
Speaker 1: because probably when people were sitting out for eating their meals,

827
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 1: they were probably eating other food, but they've gotten from

828
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: other people in there and along with their bread, So

829
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: you know, who knows. I mean, everybody pinpointed the baker,

830
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: but it might not have been him at all. You

831
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: might have had nothing to do with it. Yeah. The

832
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: only thing I guess you would run into is in

833
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties feeding a hundred or three hundred people. Okay,

834
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: but but think about it. If somebody goes out and

835
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: they pick boatloads of mushrooms and they sell them all

836
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 1: in a day at the market. Yeah, that's true. There

837
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: and the bad ones are mixed in there, or as

838
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:14,919
Speaker 1: some people call them, the good ones are mixed in there,

839
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: and they're randomly put into dishes for this celebration. It

840
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 1: doesn't even have to be for the observation of the

841
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: assumption of Mary. I just happened to find that correlated

842
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: with the date. But it could be that somebody's went

843
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: out and found this batch of I found, oh, the

844
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 1: mother load of mushrooms. It's awesome. Everybody takes them and

845
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 1: eats them and whoo, the party is started. I guess

846
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: it doesn't even have to be magic. I mean, it

847
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: could just be poisonous mushrooms, poisonous mushrooms some kind. It's

848
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: something as long as it's got the capability of initiating thing.

849
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there's all these mushrooms that look

850
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: because I think magic mushrooms. The way they grow, it's

851
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: pretty distinct. It would have to be pretty negligent to think, oh, yeah,

852
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 1: those are the good ones, or you know, inexperience or whatever. Maybe. Yeah,

853
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: locally speaking, there's a little brand that grows around here

854
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 1: that you find a cow pastor's surrounded the the output

855
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: from the cow. Yeah, don't mean milk or butter. Yeah,

856
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: but it's not. But it's really easy to go into

857
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 1: the forest and find a bunch of mushrooms and think, oh, yeah,

858
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: those look like the mushrooms that I get in the store.

859
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: But hey, guess what if it's white and it's in

860
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: the forest, don't pick that. That will kill you. Yeah.

861
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people out there who you know,

862
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: we're out there, and they suddenly like they went to

863
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 1: sleep and they woke up in the hospital with a

864
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 1: new liver. That's if you're lucky and they have to

865
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: be a liver available otherwise well tfs yeah, yeah, so yeah,

866
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: I don't eat those shrooms. Ye, so point it's a

867
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: good theory. There's a whole bunch of things that are

868
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,720
Speaker 1: naturally occurring that somebody could have picked up sold that market.

869
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 1: But in general, we are agreeing that a fungus of

870
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: some kind was ingested by people and probably so or Yeah,

871
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: I agree. I think that's something. You know, whether it

872
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: was it was probably an accidental fungus poisoning, I think

873
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: so too. Yeah, the whole the whole CIA theory I

874
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: think is silly. Yeah, it's it's absurd. Yeah, next band though,

875
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:23,919
Speaker 1: it's bunk accidental focused poisoning. It's good. Actually, the green

876
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 1: name the podcast, yeah, that would really pigeonhold us. Yeah,

877
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 1: for the cooking show. Actually, oh yeah, we have a

878
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: cooking show. Yeah, that's what it's going to be called,

879
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: because that will draw the listeners in. Yeah, I think so. Yeah,

880
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:44,800
Speaker 1: I think you know, third degree burns, it's oh, I

881
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: think we any of the theories, I guess, yeah, sort

882
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: of kind of. Oh yeah, let's let let me do

883
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 1: a little housekeeping here. H website. You can find this

884
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 1: on our website at Thinking Sideways potcast dot com. You

885
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,280
Speaker 1: can download episodes and well, unfortunately we turned off comments

886
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: a while back. Sorry about that. We're also on iTunes.

887
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 1: If you subscribe, or if you do find us there,

888
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: please do subscribe and leave us a comment, a rating.

889
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: That's great, preferably good comments and ratings. Uh. We're also

890
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: on now I don't know any I have no idea

891
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 1: how any streaming services. There's a whole of them. There's

892
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: times of them, also Google Play and I think on

893
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: all those you can also subscribe and rate us and

894
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: give us a review. Yeah. Hey, we're on Facebook that

895
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 1: we have a group and we have a page, so

896
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 1: join the group. Uh, we're on the Twitter and where

897
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 1: we are thinking sideways that's without the G and our

898
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: subread is called Thinking Sideways. And if you want to

899
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: talk to us, send us a suggestion or just tell

900
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: us how wonderful we are, you can send us an

901
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: email at Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com. And

902
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 1: last of all, if you want to support the show,

903
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 1: you can support us through Patreon. That would be at

904
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: patreon dot com, slash Thinking Sideways and don't forget that

905
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,720
Speaker 1: is an ongoing thing. If you if you pledge ten dollars,

906
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,399
Speaker 1: well that's ten bucks an episode. So I'll just keep

907
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 1: that in mind if you just want to if you're

908
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: in a situation where ten dollars is what you're wanting

909
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,359
Speaker 1: to give and you want to do this one time thing,

910
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: that's where the PayPal comes in. And there's a link

911
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: to that or a button for that on the website.

912
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 1: There is, and of course we have merch also, so

913
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: that's another way to contribute to the show. And you

914
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 1: can also get some awesome mugs and t shirts and

915
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 1: stuff out of it. I've been worked on some other

916
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 1: new arn'twork recently, so hopefully some of that will be

917
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: going up soon. Yeah, and so actually I was thinking

918
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:38,800
Speaker 1: about going up and getting a mug for myself. You

919
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 1: guys want you guys want to go in an order? No,

920
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 1: I've got a sticker, I've got my eye on. Let's

921
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 1: talk about this later, all right, you guys. Well, that's

922
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 1: it for this week. We will be seeing you guys

923
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: in another week, So bye everybody, Bye guys.