1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:10,480 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is the Bloomberg 2 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: Daybreak Aisia podcast. I'm Doug Krisner. You can join Brian 3 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: Curtis and myself for the stories, making news and moving 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: markets in the APAC region. You can subscribe to the 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: show anywhere you get your podcast and always on Bloomberg Radio, 6 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Terminal, and the Bloomberg Business app well. 7 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 2: Chohani's president Shi Jinping told Dutch Prime Minister Mark Ruta 8 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 2: that no forces can hinder the pace of China's technological advancements. 9 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 2: Yet at the same time he slammed what he considers 10 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 2: containment measures by the United States and others, and he 11 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 2: slammed technological barriers that have been set. Jenny Marrish joins 12 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 2: us Bloomberg Team leader for Greater China Eco Government. In 13 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: some ways she is trying to walk a delicate line here, Jenny. 14 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 2: He wants to kind of stick the chest out beat 15 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 2: it a little bit, saying nothing can stop us. But 16 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: at the same time he's very critical of some of 17 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 2: these measures from the United States and from the European Union. 18 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 2: Is he being successful? 19 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 3: It's a very fine line. I mean, it's hard to 20 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 3: know how to measure the success. But you know, if 21 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 3: you look at the FDI figures last year, then you 22 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 3: know it's very tough for them, isn't there. 23 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 2: And then two thumbs down there. 24 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 3: It's two thumbs down. And in some ways, you know, 25 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 3: the people that they've been trying to woo this week 26 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 3: at CDF and you know other events are some of 27 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 3: the companies which are actually in the crosshairs of these 28 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 3: very policies. You know, Tim Cook wasn't at the meeting 29 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 3: of CEOs with Hugingping, but he was in China being 30 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 3: sort of wooed by the leadership, and you know, at 31 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 3: the same time China is restricting you know, there are 32 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 3: reports to Chinese government is sort of encouraging government employees 33 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 3: not to use iPhone, so welcoming Apple in one way, 34 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 3: you know, making life more difficult for than in another. 35 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 3: There were reports over the weekend the government has said, 36 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 3: you know, government computers shouldn't have Intel microprocesses, another big 37 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 3: American company, So very difficult message for she to welcome. 38 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 3: These people say the market is open and we're only 39 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 3: going to open it more, when there are very concrete 40 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 3: examples of ways actually the door is closing. 41 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like the boy that cried Wolf, right, I mean, 42 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: you come on in and see things. Oh, I'm sorry, 43 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 1: they're different than what you imagined. And then when he 44 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: really desperately needs American capital, these companies are just gunshy. 45 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: I mean, they don't want any part of it. And 46 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: this idea that there he doesn't see a need for 47 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: Washington and Beijing to couple. I'm sorry, but that's already 48 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: underway to some extent, is underway. 49 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 3: And it's a two it's a two way process. It 50 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 3: isn't just the US that's just trying to sort of, 51 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 3: you know, de risk as they would say, you know, 52 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 3: both sides. So she's been talking for years about sort 53 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 3: of dual circulation and making sure that you know, China's 54 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 3: able to have, you know, to supply to meet its 55 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 3: own needs. So it's been a two track thing for 56 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 3: a long time, and the securitization of the relationship is 57 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 3: taking place on both sides of the fence. 58 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 2: There's some hypocrisy on both sides. You hear strong criticism 59 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 2: about industrial subsidies in China by the United States, but 60 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 2: now you see the US moving very very rapidly toward 61 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 2: industrialization and providing much of the same subsidies at home. However, 62 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 2: I suppose the one difference is that there will be 63 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: non US companies that can compete for and perhaps gain 64 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 2: those contracts in the US. 65 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 3: That's right, It's not a you know, it's never an 66 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 3: apples to apples comparison. At the same time, you know, China, 67 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 3: the advantage China has in things like the ev industry 68 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 3: is not all down to subsidies, right. They have like 69 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 3: a very good supply chain, they've developed battery technology. Having 70 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 3: all of those things sort of in the same country 71 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 3: also helps China drive down prices. And they're also executing 72 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 3: a lower cost point. They're not making that the high 73 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 3: end vehicles a lot of the time of the bid 74 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 3: products and so on. So it's very hard to sort 75 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 3: of judge whose claims are fair and what's protectionism, and 76 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 3: it's sort of a very gray area. 77 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: What's the urgency to solve this problem? I mean, given 78 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: what's going on in the Chinese economy right now, and 79 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: she's saying that he needs more American capital at a 80 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: time when the Treasury Secretary is basically, as Brian pointed out, 81 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: the subsidy issue, she's slamming Beijing for its policy, and 82 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: she said that she is going to kind of deal 83 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: with this issue during her next trip. But if there's 84 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: not resolution, what's happening in the background, the erosion not 85 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: only of confidence on the business side, but on the 86 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: consumer side as well. I mean, China is dealing with 87 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: perhaps an inflection point in its economic activity. 88 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 3: Absolutely, and you know, if you look at the work 89 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 3: report from the NPC at the beginning of the month, 90 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 3: you know they are going all in with manufacturing. They're 91 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 3: betting the house on manufacturing. You know, new productive forces, 92 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 3: high quality development. It's all about developing these high tech industries, 93 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 3: which are these high points of contention with their biggest 94 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 3: trade partners. And the more that relationship with the US 95 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 3: and Europe heats up, the more risks there are in 96 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 3: being in the Chinese market for foreign companies. So you know, 97 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 3: it's a very hard it is a very hard balancing 98 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 3: act for she's to get right. 99 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 2: Is there a message in that President Shei Jinping and 100 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 2: Premier Lee Chiang did not go to Boao. They're at 101 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 2: home now. We had the conflicting schedules, We had the 102 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 2: Development Forum and also the visiting CEOs in China. So 103 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 2: it's perhaps understandable, but is there a sort of underlying 104 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: message there. 105 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 3: They do tend to sort of rotate who goes to 106 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 3: BOOW each year, so but you know Boaw has a 107 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 3: lot more sort of Chinese executives as well. I think 108 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 3: she I mean, the message I think was that the 109 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 3: big US foreign executives where she's attention was this week, 110 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:51,919 Speaker 3: and the fact that he shows us it down with 111 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 3: them and it wasn't Li Chang doing that big ground 112 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 3: table as normal. I think was the message for how 113 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 3: important this is now where it sits on his agenda. 114 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 2: All right, Well, thanks Jenny for joining us here out 115 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 2: of time for this segment, but at pleasure as usual. 116 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,679 Speaker 2: Jenny marsh Bomber, a team leader for a Greater China 117 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 2: Eco gov with us live in our Hong Kong studios. 118 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: All right, daddie, thank you. Let's get to our guest. 119 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: Margie Patel is with us. She is senior portfolio manager 120 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: and multi asset solutions head at all Spring Global Investment. 121 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,799 Speaker 1: She joins us from just outside Boston. Margaret, it's always 122 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: a pleasure. I mean, got one more trading day for 123 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: in the first quarter. It's hard to believe that in 124 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: that period those three months, the S and P is 125 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: up nearly ten percent. Are you expecting this market to 126 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: continue to march higher? 127 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 4: Well, actually, I thought we would chop around in the 128 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 4: first half of the year and not really make much headway. 129 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 4: So I'm pleasantly surprised that the market is up almost 130 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 4: as much as I thought for the full year. But 131 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 4: I think again, we're getting to the end of the 132 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 4: quarter and once again we start to see what the 133 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 4: results in the first quarter, and really I think that 134 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 4: buy and large are going to continue to surprise. On 135 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 4: the upside, the economies growing profit margins look like they're 136 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 4: holding and companies don't seem to be very hurt by 137 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 4: the Feds having raised interest rates, so we think it's 138 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 4: more of the same. 139 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 2: Is there a little bit of a chance here to 140 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 2: take advantage of institutional rebalancing, because we've seen we know 141 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 2: that with a ten percent gain, a lot of pension 142 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 2: funds and other institutional investors will probably have to in 143 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 2: order to get their balance back in according to the 144 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 2: mandates of whatever they're managing. That you could see some 145 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 2: selling in some of these high flying companies. In fact, 146 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,559 Speaker 2: we've seen it AMD down about fifteen percent, and video 147 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 2: is pulled back from what nine to seventy five or 148 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: so to around nine hundred. Does that give investors a 149 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: kind of handy dip to buy that hasn't been really 150 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 2: any hardcore negative news. You just think profit taking is 151 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: natural too? 152 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 4: Yes, No, I think actually it'd be a great opportunity 153 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 4: because you would have institutional sellers who are selling not 154 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 4: for fundamental reasons exactly changing the outlook, but rather simply 155 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 4: to rebalance. So it's actually a great opportunity. And I 156 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 4: think a lot of the tech stocks have moved so 157 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 4: much to this year over the last twelve months too, 158 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 4: that they really need a rest, and so I think 159 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 4: it's a good time to take advantage of any little 160 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 4: dip that we have. 161 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: I think we can agree though, so much of what 162 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: the market has done this year has been predicated on 163 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: this idea that we're going to get massive rate cuts 164 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 1: from the Fed, and tonight we heard from Governor Chris 165 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: Waller saying, hey, there's no rush to lower interest rates, 166 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: and maybe we'll not see the three rate cuts that 167 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: even the most recent dot plot suggested. Maybe when all 168 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: is said and done, it's going to be more like 169 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: what Raphael Bostik said the other day, and it's one 170 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 1: not three. 171 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 2: What do you think, Well. 172 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 4: I think what it tells you is the market, frankly, 173 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 4: isn't paying all that much attention to what the Fed 174 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 4: is saying about one cup, two cup, three cuts. They're 175 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 4: looking at the fundamentals, the outlook for individual companies, the 176 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 4: outlook for you know, sustainable growth in several areas. Artificial 177 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 4: intelligence is just one of them, but that's a huge area, 178 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 4: and a quarter point here there really doesn't change the 179 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 4: outlook for for profits. So I think that we should 180 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 4: expect to see companies maintain the profit margins as they 181 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 4: have now for number of quarters, and really not pay 182 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 4: too much attention to said looking more, what's the outlook 183 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 4: for growth? Who gets to keep this status as a 184 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 4: high grower? What companies are losing relevance and not able 185 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 4: to maintain their their their pees levels. 186 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 2: So we've seen a lot of kind of internal measures 187 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 2: in the market that suggest that the market has gone 188 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 2: too far too fast, and that you know, you could 189 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 2: get a correction. You hear from a lot of people thinking, well, 190 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 2: you know, we could easily get a correction here. But 191 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 2: you can imagine this painful discussion that advisors having with 192 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 2: their clients saying, I don't want you to take part 193 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 2: in this thirty percent rally in stocks because we could 194 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 2: get a five to eight percent correction. 195 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 4: Well, when you think about it, in the grand scheme 196 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 4: of things, a five or ten percent correction is really 197 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 4: pretty mild. And what does the market do after that, Well, 198 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 4: it's going to go up. So I think that Basically, 199 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 4: a lot of investors when the FED began to raise 200 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 4: race looks at the history books and they said, well, 201 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 4: the FED races rates, it means we have a recession. 202 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 4: That means stocks have a big correction near twenty percent 203 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 4: and stays there for a while. None of that happened. Really, 204 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 4: we had a few little dips and the markets come 205 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 4: back and gone even higher. So I think it's a 206 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 4: little bit of wishful thinking to say, oh, the markets 207 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 4: too high to ease, are too high, stocks have run 208 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 4: too fast, the market's too concentrated. 209 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: MARKI before we let you go, I want to think globally, 210 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: because President chu Jinping earlier in the day in Beijing 211 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: was speaking to a group of American business leaders. When 212 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: you think about the relations between the US and China, 213 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: right now, do you allow them to enter into your 214 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: thinking when making decisions. I'm putting money to work. 215 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 4: Well, you know, I'm sure he's trying to desperately find 216 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:11,079 Speaker 4: any way to keep the Chinese economy growing. It's very, 217 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 4: very difficult, and it seems that, of course you'd love 218 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 4: to have American companies come in, share their intellectual property, 219 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 4: make investments in China, help the Chinese. The question that 220 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 4: you could ask yourself is what do American companies really 221 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 4: get out of that. So I think it's good for 222 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:30,079 Speaker 4: everybody to be sociable and talk, but I think companies 223 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 4: are going to be pretty cautious about committing capital into China, 224 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 4: especially with the backdrop of lower growth there. 225 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 2: And there's some contrasts here. The Chinese President she Jimping 226 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 2: told the Dutch Prime Minister that no forces can hinder 227 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 2: the pace of advancement by China. But then he's at 228 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 2: the same time criticizing the moves by the US and 229 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 2: Europe to put some constraints on China. So you know, 230 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 2: on the one hand, you want to say, you know, 231 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 2: we can't be held back, and the other hand he says, 232 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 2: please don't try to hold us back. How do you 233 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 2: make sense of that kind of approach. 234 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 4: Well, I think it shows you what's inevitable when you 235 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 4: have a estate administered Econnery is whatever strength they had initially, 236 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 4: they just run out of gas. And that's what you're seeing, 237 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 4: Charna Sydney Connery. It has eighteen percent is devoted to 238 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 4: housing in the US it's about five percent. 239 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 2: We got to go, Margie, Thanks so much, Margaret Patel 240 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 2: from Offspring Global Investments. This is Bloomberg. We are joined 241 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 2: on the program by Joe Matthew, host of Bloomberg Balance 242 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,679 Speaker 2: of Power on Bloomberg Television and Radio. We wanted to 243 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 2: take a closer look at the latest on the Baltimore 244 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 2: Bridge collapse and then also the life of Senator Joe Lieberman. 245 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 2: Let's start with Joe Lieberman. Joe, I mean, this is 246 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 2: a man who is about as committed to politics as 247 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,319 Speaker 2: anybody you'd ever meet. He was elected to the get 248 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 2: Senate way back in nineteen seventy. I think he was 249 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 2: just barely out of law school. He's known for being 250 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 2: a patriot, for being a Democrat turned independent, and a 251 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 2: stubborn centrist. Well will you remember Joe Lieberman for the. 252 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 5: Most Well, look all of that is true. And look, 253 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 5: we're kind of acknowledging another moment here with the end 254 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 5: of an era, the generational shift that's happening here in Washington. 255 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 5: Eighty two years old, he's one year older than his 256 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 5: former Senate colleague Joe Biden, and I think that we're 257 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 5: remembering the fact that they don't make democrats like these anymore. Obviously, 258 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 5: he did end up an independent, but he was of 259 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 5: course the vice presidential nominee for his party in two 260 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 5: thousand and you go back even further to when he 261 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 5: was first elected to the Senate. He was endorsed in 262 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 5: that race against Lowell Wiker by William F. Buckley Junior. 263 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 5: Can you imagine a world in which a Democrat is 264 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 5: just a different time in politics? The gentleman from Connecticut. 265 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 5: We talked to him just last week in his final 266 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,959 Speaker 5: role in politics as national co chair of No Labels. 267 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 5: He was determined to get a candidate in this race, 268 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 5: to have an alternative to Joe Biden and Donald Trump. 269 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:14,679 Speaker 5: And he will of course not live to see that happen. 270 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: You're absolutely right about the year two thousand. I think 271 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: it was when he was tapped by Al Gore to 272 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: become the candidate on the ticket with mister Gore. But 273 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: before that, you'll remember that during the impeachment trial of 274 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: Bill Clinton in the Senate, Lieberman broke with many of 275 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: his Democratic colleagues and took to the Senate floor and 276 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: basically denounced Clinton's behavior as disgraceful and immoral. Do you 277 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: think that came back to bite him in a way. 278 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 5: Well, I'm not sure. I think that he stayed that 279 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 5: Joe Lieberman. And we have to remind everybody he almost 280 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 5: ran with John McCain on a presidential ticket just a 281 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 5: couple of years after that. Think of what changed between 282 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 5: two and two thousand and eight for this individual, and 283 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 5: he saw it as a party that was changing around him. 284 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 5: Of course, he didn' not end up running with John McCain, 285 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 5: but he was more closely associated with the maverick from 286 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 5: Arizona than say a liberal from New England. 287 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 2: Joe, you know, he was a man that was so 288 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 2: committed to his country. But almost in the end, was 289 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 2: he a man without a country? 290 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 5: Oh gosh, I don't think he would tell you that. 291 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 5: You know, when you think about his speech at the 292 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 5: convention in two thousand, the first words out of his 293 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 5: mouth were isn't this the greatest country in the world. 294 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 5: He was a patriot. You said that in the outset, 295 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 5: and I think that's accurate. And he saw us at 296 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 5: a point in time in this campaign cycle where he 297 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 5: could affect things, hopefully for the next generation. I asked 298 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 5: him when we talked to him last week if he 299 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 5: was turning his back on his old friend Joe Biden, 300 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 5: and he rejected that premise. He really didn't see it 301 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 5: that way. He had a lot of respect for Joe Biden, 302 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 5: but he doesn't think this country can move forward with 303 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 5: an eighty something year old leading it. He's won, he 304 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 5: knows who was, he knows what that's like to have 305 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 5: that disconnect with the next generation. It's it's a question 306 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 5: now at this point if no labels will run a candidate, 307 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 5: or if that in fact will be the end of 308 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 5: the road on that idea. 309 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: Well, that's an interesting point. I mean, do you think 310 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: that Lieberman's spirit kind of looms large over that kind 311 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: of third party movement? 312 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 5: Maybe? Look, it's still a going concern. The problem is 313 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 5: they haven't been able to find a candidate. There have 314 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 5: been funding issues, there are ballot issues. They're only on 315 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 5: a couple of the ballot and a couple of states here. 316 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 5: And the idea that he expressed, by the way, is 317 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 5: that if this does appear to be a spoiler, which 318 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 5: every Democrat will tell you that it is, they would 319 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 5: choose to not run a candidate. I'll be curious to 320 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 5: see if that spirit lives on with no labels, if 321 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 5: they do choose to run. 322 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just wondering whether or not, you know, 323 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: as we look across the spectrum, whether Centrists is sort 324 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 2: of being run out of town. 325 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 5: Now, well, look at the retirements. We're in excess of forty. Now, 326 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 5: this is Republicans and Democrats. You talk about Centrists, you're right, 327 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 5: but it applies to both parties and the number of 328 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 5: retirements that we have seen folks stepping down, even young 329 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 5: men like Mike Gallagher, who chairs the China Select Committee, 330 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 5: calling it quits like this because it's it's not a 331 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 5: fun job. They can't get anything done. The vitriol, the 332 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 5: threats that they receive just don't make it worth it. 333 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 5: They can go make a lot of money and do 334 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,479 Speaker 5: something a lot different. And that's just a different place 335 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 5: than Joe Lieberman went to work for in nineteen eighty nine. 336 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 3: Joe. 337 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: In the time that we have left with you, I 338 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: want to pivot to the Baltimore Bridge collapse. I think 339 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: that you and your colleague Kaylee Liones have been doing 340 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: fantastic coverage over the last two of eight. Yeah, it's 341 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: been really beneficial to kind of get at some of 342 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 1: the insights that you've been able to provide. What do 343 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: we need to understand right now as to where things are? Boy, 344 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: there's so much yet to understand. I talked to the 345 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: Treasury or the Transportation Secretary today forgiving me. Pete Boodh 346 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,719 Speaker 1: Jedge has really been spearheading this for the administration, and 347 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: it's really about understanding how much we don't know. To 348 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 1: be honest, Look, this just a short time ago, you know, 349 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: started moving away from being a recovery mission. They are still, 350 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: of course looking through the harbor, but these are six 351 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: presumed dead individuals now, and it's going to start becoming 352 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: time to clear the harbor. When he talked earlier about 353 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: the first job that needs to be done, it's clearing 354 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: the harbor and releasing freeing the forty ships that are 355 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: tapped trapped inside the port. There's a really important meeting 356 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: tomorrow that buddhaj Edge is going to hold with shipping 357 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 1: companies and as he says, supply chain stakeholders, anyone who's 358 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: involved in this exercise in the port. Guys, they need 359 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: to find new locations for autos, for coal. They're going 360 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: to look to New Jersey. They're going to look to 361 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: where you are, Doug in New York. They might look 362 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: down south, but they need a plan right now to 363 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 1: try to get these goods into port so prices don't 364 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: start going up for a whole new reason. 365 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 2: I agree with Doug that you've been amazing, and I 366 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 2: would say for Kayley just sort of amazing squared. No, no, 367 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 2: you're no notes person too, but no, no, it's just 368 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 2: just absolutely running through everything. We know where we're going. 369 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 2: You know, we had this news conference just a short 370 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,239 Speaker 2: while ago, Jennifer Lendy, we carried some of that, got 371 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 2: a little technical in nature. Has there been anything really substantial? 372 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 2: I mean, what surprised you most about what you learn 373 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 2: from that? 374 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 5: Well, just to the extent to which this conversation is 375 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 5: happening on board the ship, can you imagine what it's 376 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 5: like to board that boat right now and talk to 377 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 5: folks who were in the middle of this, they got 378 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 5: the black box off the boat. There are a lot 379 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 5: of questions though about damage underneath the waterline. These divers 380 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 5: who are going down there, I can't imagine what they 381 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 5: are going through. We also have unmanned submersibles that have 382 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 5: been used to try to see the bow of this 383 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 5: ship is sitting on the floor because the bridge is 384 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 5: laying on top of it. You've got hazardous materials, You've 385 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:39,919 Speaker 5: got a lot of fuel on board. They need to 386 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 5: figure out how they can move this without creating a 387 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 5: whole new disaster, in this case, an environmental disaster. And 388 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 5: until that happens, you've got forty ships carrying goods and 389 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 5: they're trying to offload a lot of this stuff. But 390 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 5: until they can be taken out of the port, we 391 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 5: can't really do a lot with the bridge. Then they 392 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 5: will start looking at whether there's anything survivable here or 393 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 5: if we're building a bridge from scratch. The number today 394 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 5: by Bloomberg is two billion dollars for this project, and 395 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 5: we're already hearing some pushback in Washington on who is 396 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 5: going to pay for it. 397 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 1: Well, that will take us full circle back to Joe Lieberman. 398 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: The spirit of compromise do you think that's likely in 399 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: this event? 400 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 5: You know, I don't know, Doug. You tend to think 401 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 5: so everyone has a stake in having a bridge that 402 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 5: works here and keeping the flow of traffic and trade moving. 403 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 5: But I keep hearing from folks, including lawmakers. I talked 404 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 5: to one from Maryland today, Glenn Ivy, who said, Look, 405 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 5: this is not two thousand and seven when that bridge 406 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 5: collapsed in Minnesota and Congress acted in the heat of 407 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 5: the moment to pass unanimous emergency funding support. We're just 408 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:44,880 Speaker 5: not getting along like that right now, and there might 409 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 5: be a call to slow things down, maybe have a 410 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 5: public private partnership, see if the shipping line has some 411 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 5: blame in this game. Look, it's really hard to tell. 412 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 5: Lawmakers will be back after Easter, and from what we've 413 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 5: seen so far, Republicans in the House specifically, just don't 414 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 5: want to do anything that looks like a win for 415 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 5: Joe Biden. 416 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 2: Joe, great stuff. Thanks so much for joining us, Joe Matthew, 417 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 2: host of Bloomberg's Balance of Power. 418 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 1: This has been the Bloomberg Daybreak Asia podcast, bringing you 419 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 1: the stories making news and moving markets in the Asia Pacific. 420 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: Visit the Bloomberg Podcast channel on YouTube. 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