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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show.

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Speaker 4: It's Wednesday, so welcome to Counterpoints. And actually, Ryan, I

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Speaker 4: was just thinking, we are about a week shy.

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Speaker 5: Of one year of counterpoints.

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Speaker 4: The one year University of conference does it, and right

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Speaker 4: now is perfect because the campaign seasons in full swinging.

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Speaker 4: Congress is going crazy. There will be chaos in Congress

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Speaker 4: those fall, so we're ready to.

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Speaker 5: Cover all of them.

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Speaker 3: Gearing up. Can't wait, Well, we should.

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Speaker 4: Just start right away with some big news about the

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Speaker 4: law fair against Donald Trump. We're also going to be

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Speaker 4: talking about Elon Musk and the Anti Defamation League, which

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Speaker 4: are in a really intense back and forth the two

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Speaker 4: parties are.

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Speaker 5: Right now, we're going to be talking.

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Speaker 4: About China Huawei and semiconductor chip technology advancements that are

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Speaker 4: a little.

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Speaker 5: I don't know, Ryan, what's the word for this.

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Speaker 6: It's a nice kind of cold war. Everybody throwing money

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Speaker 6: at technology. That's one way to do it for things

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Speaker 6: that don't like, necessarily have to blow.

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Speaker 5: Up, they don't necessarily have.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of nice. That's a good kind of cold war.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, there was a big special election to fill a

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Speaker 6: house seat in Rhode Island last night. Progressives got rinsed.

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Speaker 6: It was an extremely disappointing result for the left.

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Speaker 3: There. We'll talk about that a little bit later.

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Speaker 4: Updates in the McConnell saga, and then we'll be talking

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Speaker 4: about some big news.

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Speaker 5: Tucker Carlson, it's going to be Viking later this week.

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Speaker 3: I'll just leave it at that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'll leave it at that.

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Speaker 6: If the name Larry Sinclair means anything to you, you back

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Speaker 6: from two thousand and eight, you've got a clue about

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Speaker 6: what this is about.

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Speaker 3: But we'll get into it later.

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Speaker 4: I was going to say it's perfect subject for Ryan

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Speaker 4: because he was covering all of this back then.

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Speaker 3: Here we are again.

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Speaker 5: Here we are circle and some of them.

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Speaker 4: Maria is back with us on breaking points to talk

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Speaker 4: about some developments.

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Speaker 5: This is a huge.

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Speaker 4: Fall for labor, not just for Congress but also for labor.

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Speaker 4: A lot of stuff happening, and we want to ask

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Speaker 4: so Rob basically, can the right put its money where

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Speaker 4: its mouth is when it comes to weighing in in

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Speaker 4: these disputes, in these battles and actually fully realigning. So

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Speaker 4: that's the question we'll toss to so Rob when he

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Speaker 4: joins us later today. But let's go to Mark Meadows

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Speaker 4: because Politico had a really interesting story that made waves

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Speaker 4: yesterday where they narrowed in on an exchange between Mark

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Speaker 4: Metal's lawyer and the judge.

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Speaker 5: I think it was the judge.

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Speaker 4: We can put a one up on the screen here

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Speaker 4: in a case the case down in Georgia last week.

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Speaker 5: So this is I'm reading here for media.

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Speaker 4: I A new report connected the dots among Donald Trump

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Speaker 4: co conspirators for his indictment in Georgia and established a

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Speaker 4: pattern of behavior indicting the former, indicating the former president's

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Speaker 4: allies will turn against him to legally save themselves. Politico

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Speaker 4: reported on Mark Meadow's potential legal strategy. Is the White

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Speaker 4: House Chief of Staff faces chargers connected with Trump's alleged

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Speaker 4: conspiracy to overturn Georgia's twenty twenty election results. The report

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Speaker 4: referred to a court documents showing a strong likelihood that

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Speaker 4: Metals will join Trump's other former allies who will blame

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Speaker 4: the ex president and portray him as the primary driver

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Speaker 4: of the racketeering enterprise they've been accused of. Okay, so

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Speaker 4: here is the key exchange that Media I pulled out

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Speaker 4: from Politico. Meadows is the person who arranged the call

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Speaker 4: with Raffensburger, perfect call, the perfect phone call with Raffensburger.

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Speaker 4: But Meto's lawyer who's named Michael Francisco, which always makes

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Speaker 4: me think of the scene in Elf where he's like Francisco.

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Speaker 5: That's a fun thing to say.

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Speaker 4: He says, quote, there's a lot of statements by mister Trump,

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Speaker 4: mister Meadows speaking rules were quite limited. He didn't make

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Speaker 4: a request that you changed the vote totals, mister Meadows himself,

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Speaker 4: and then he asked that to Raffinsburger, and Raffensberger says correct, right,

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Speaker 4: So this is an exchange not the judge, that was

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Speaker 4: between Brad Raffinsberger and the attorney for Marketmados. And he's

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Speaker 4: getting him to say that Meadows didn't ask for the

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Speaker 4: vote totals to be changed himself.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, And there's another piece that adds a breadcrumb to that,

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Speaker 6: which is around the fake elector's scheme. And this is

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Speaker 6: this part's gone viral where he says he did something

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Speaker 6: because he didn't want to get yelled at by the

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Speaker 6: President of the United States. Yes, but the context for

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Speaker 6: that is the fake elector's scheme. And so they said, well,

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Speaker 6: why did you why did you go ahead and put

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Speaker 6: these fake electors slates together? He said, well, in the

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Speaker 6: event that we won the court case, I wanted to

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Speaker 6: have them ready to go.

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Speaker 3: You know, why did you want to have them ready

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Speaker 3: to go?

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Speaker 6: Well, because the President the United States would have yelled

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Speaker 6: at me if I didn't.

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Speaker 3: And to me, if he can convince.

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Speaker 6: A jury of that that the only reason he was

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Speaker 6: setting up the fake elector's slates was in anticipation of

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Speaker 6: a legal victory. Then that falls within his proper duties

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Speaker 6: as a White House chief of staff, because we do

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Speaker 6: accept that you are allowed to challenge election results through

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Speaker 6: the court system, like that's that's fine, that's fair, that's

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Speaker 6: that's that's that's all, that's all in the game.

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Speaker 3: You're like, you're allowed to do that. And so if

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Speaker 3: if the.

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Speaker 6: Jury believes, Okay, he was just putting these electors together

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Speaker 6: in case the Wisconsin you know, in case the Georgia case,

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Speaker 6: the Arizona case, whatever came, he's going to have. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: he's gonna have a timeline problem in that they had

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Speaker 6: lost most of these by this point. However, maybe it's

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Speaker 6: enough to like cloud it for a jury, but it

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Speaker 6: does show his strategy that he's saying, I was doing

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Speaker 6: things all within the legal confines, Like nothing wrong with

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Speaker 6: setting up a phone call with Raffensburger. It's the president

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Speaker 6: who got on there and was like, find me eleven

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Speaker 6: thousand votes. Not wrong with having alternative electors ready to

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Speaker 6: go if the courts go with you. It was the

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Speaker 6: president who tried to use them even after the courts

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Speaker 6: shut them down. So that does imply that he is

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Speaker 6: trying to distance himself here.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and willis though, and that's why she, I think,

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Speaker 4: brings in the racketeering charges. And that was very intentional obviously,

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Speaker 4: because then you can charge all of these people with

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Speaker 4: the sort of peripheral activities and behavior because it all

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Speaker 4: goes into the racket, literally into the racket. That was

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Speaker 4: the attempt to as she sees an overturn the election,

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Speaker 4: as opposed to what Mark Meadows is arguing, which is

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Speaker 4: that we were preparing for potential legal changes. And again,

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Speaker 4: Lawrence Tribe and Alan Dershowitz disagree about what happened in

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Speaker 4: nineteen sixty in Hawaii, and they disagree about what happened

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Speaker 4: in two thousand and Florida. But there have been other

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Speaker 4: legal theories that you need to appoint a separate slate

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Speaker 4: if the vote totals get overturned so that they're ready

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Speaker 4: to go and vote in the direction.

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Speaker 5: That the vote totals have shifted to. So yeah, it

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Speaker 5: makes sense.

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Speaker 4: It absolutely is a legal defense makes sense what Mark

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Speaker 4: Monos was doing. People were surprised, I think, not to see,

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Speaker 4: first of all, to see that Mark Menos was indicted,

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Speaker 4: and not to see more breadcrumbs that maybe he was

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Speaker 4: flipping in the I think the original Willison indictment.

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Speaker 5: Were you surprised by that? I think everyone thought he

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Speaker 5: had larready, he.

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Speaker 3: Had already flipped.

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Speaker 6: No, because I have been hearing since day one of

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Speaker 6: the Trump presidency that all of his people are going

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Speaker 6: to flip on him, yeah, and turn state's evidence over

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Speaker 6: to initially whoever it was and it's over to Muller.

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Speaker 6: Then it's like on and on, Like the media has

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Speaker 6: constantly been waiting for this kind of rollover on Trump

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Speaker 6: and that it was always going to be the thing

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Speaker 6: that was going to get him, because it also has

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Speaker 6: a kind of narrative satisfaction to it because Trump is

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Speaker 6: such a cruel person to people underneath him, and so

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Speaker 6: like obviously disloyal to people underneath him, like so willing

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Speaker 6: to toss him off that I think a lot of

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Speaker 6: people see people in that situation and are like, if

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Speaker 6: I were them, I would have no loyalty in reverse

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Speaker 6: to this guy. So he must want to flip, And

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Speaker 6: so I think people have been anticipating a lot of

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Speaker 6: flips that haven't come. And so I'm not ready to

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Speaker 6: believe a flip until they've actually stuck the landing on it,

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Speaker 6: because you know, the football has been pulled away so

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Speaker 6: many times on this particular point. But it still is

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Speaker 6: the point that Trump has raised two hundred fifty million

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Speaker 6: dollars and he's got some he's got some broke like

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Speaker 6: co defendants, and he's not even helping them out with

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Speaker 6: their legal bills. It's like that is that is a

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Speaker 6: recipe to get somebody to flip on you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what happened to Nixon. Maybe Roger Stone needs

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Speaker 4: to tell him that.

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Speaker 6: And what we haven't had up until now is all

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Speaker 6: of these felony charges, these actual criminal charges. So we

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Speaker 6: had kind of rumors of charges, we had investigations, we

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Speaker 6: had legal jeopardy, but now people have been fingerprinted and

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Speaker 6: mugshotted and are facing actual prison time, like staring down

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Speaker 6: their lives being irreparably changed.

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Speaker 5: Michael Cone got him.

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Speaker 6: Yes you did Yes, you did it, Michae Cone, right,

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Speaker 6: and he turned into the biggest Trump critic out there, right, yeah,

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Speaker 6: and yeah.

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Speaker 4: And the significance of Mark Meadows is sort of similar,

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Speaker 4: I would think to Michael Cone, whose testimony has created

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Speaker 4: I mean, actually, I think probably the Alvin Bragg stuff

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Speaker 4: is in some ways rooted in Michael Cone.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. He's the star witness.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, right, yeah, So, and Mark Meadows was by

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump's side throughout that fall of twenty twenty and

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Speaker 4: into the winter of twenty twenty. So you can imagine

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Speaker 4: you know, what might especially like Willis prosecutor like Willis,

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Speaker 4: would delight in getting Meadows to flip certainly there would

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Speaker 4: be a lot of questions that they would be eager

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Speaker 4: to ask him in that context of having flipped.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Sure, let's turn to some twenty twenty four news.

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Speaker 4: Because so Donald Trump obviously the Republican front runner, Joe Biden,

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Speaker 4: I guess the Democratic.

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Speaker 5: Front runner because we're not going to do a primary.

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Speaker 4: I guess we're just not doing it, despite the fact

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Speaker 4: that what seventy percent of Democrats want some semblance of

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Speaker 4: a primary. But Joe Biden is getting ready to blanket

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Speaker 4: the airwaves during NFL games with this ad.

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Speaker 5: Take a look at it.

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Speaker 7: They said millions would lose their jobs and the economy

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Speaker 7: would collapse, but this president refused to let that happen. Instead,

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Speaker 7: he got to work fixing supply chains, fighting corporate greed,

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Speaker 7: passing laws to lower the cost of medicine, cut utility bills,

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Speaker 7: and make us more.

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Speaker 3: Energy and dependent.

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Speaker 7: Today, inflation is down to three percent, unemployment the lowest

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Speaker 7: in decades. There's more to do, but President Biden is

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Speaker 7: getting results that matter.

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Speaker 3: I'm Joe Biden, and I approve this message.

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Speaker 5: It's like AI Joe Biden. No, I actually real Joe Biden.

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Speaker 4: But you never know these days so that's a twenty

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Speaker 4: five million dollar ad campaign for battleground states during the

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Speaker 4: NFL opener on Thursday. They plan to actually run that

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Speaker 4: through December. Obviously, as everyone just go that was very

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Speaker 4: focused on his economic record, Bidenomics the new hot phrase

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Speaker 4: in Washington, and a Wall Street Journal poll is Axios

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Speaker 4: notes found a majority of American voters disapprove of the

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Speaker 4: President's handling of the economy and inflation. So it's obviously

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Speaker 4: trying to get ahead of that. Had a little bit

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Speaker 4: of trouble in the White House briefing room yesterday answering

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Speaker 4: an interesting question on the World Bank from friend of

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Speaker 4: the show, Philip Wegman of Real Clear Politics.

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Speaker 5: Let's play that video.

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Speaker 8: Last question, given.

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Speaker 9: That you said ulster in the World Bank is not

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Speaker 9: about countering China. In this country, credit card delinquencies have spiked,

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Speaker 9: mortgage rates are through the roof, Inflation remain the same problem. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 9: the federal deficit this year is almost tripled, and the

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Speaker 9: President wants to increase funding to foreign nations through the

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Speaker 9: World Bank. How is that fair to citizen and say Scranton.

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Speaker 8: Look, I think citizens in Scranton recognize the problems that

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Speaker 8: happen overseas, don't stay overseas. They come here too a

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Speaker 8: great cost to working people. COVID came here from overseas.

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Speaker 8: When there's massive debt or instability or conflict elsewhere, it

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Speaker 8: has a drag on the global economy, and America is

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Speaker 8: part of the global economy. So our perspective is that

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Speaker 8: for a modest investment, from the point of view of

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Speaker 8: the overall size of the US budget, to put into

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Speaker 8: ensuring greater stability, greater prosperity, greater capacity in the rest

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Speaker 8: of the world, that is going to end up reducing

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Speaker 8: the costs and burdens on working people in Scranton or

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Speaker 8: Minneapolis or any of all eural's hometowns. And frankly, that's

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Speaker 8: not some novel idea. That has been a bipartisan commitment

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Speaker 8: of the United States for decades, and even the last administration,

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Speaker 8: the biggest skeptic of all of this made investments in

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Speaker 8: foreign aid because those investments are in the naked self

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Speaker 8: interest of the United States as well as being the

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Speaker 8: right thing to do.

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Speaker 4: And you can obviously envision as well Ukraine being roped

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Speaker 4: into a similar line of questioning about the Biden administrations

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Speaker 4: basically control of the purse, swings, perse strings. What do

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Speaker 4: you make of the ad? What do you make of

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Speaker 4: Jake Salvin's answer there?

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Speaker 6: He got more and more honest towards the end of it.

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Speaker 6: And I like the part where he finally said, we're

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Speaker 6: spending this money in the naked self interest of the

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Speaker 6: United States. Yes, And I think people just need to

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Speaker 6: understand that this is not charity, Like what the US

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Speaker 6: gives to the World Bank, and the World Bank then

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Speaker 6: spends abroad or the IMF or even propping up the

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Speaker 6: WTO This is not charity.

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Speaker 3: This is not in foreign aid is.

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Speaker 6: A deceptive term, like we're not out there just you know,

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Speaker 6: trying to do the right thing by you know, peasants

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Speaker 6: in Vietnam or whatever. Like what are we trying to

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Speaker 6: actually do. We're trying to exert our imperial influence around

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Speaker 6: the globe, and we're trying to extract labor and resources

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Speaker 6: from the rest of the world, from the periphery into

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Speaker 6: the center here.

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Speaker 3: Which then, if you have a kind.

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Speaker 6: Of a social democratic uh empire, benefits the working class

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Speaker 6: inside the empire. If you have a more conservative and

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Speaker 6: las a fair one, then it all flows up to

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Speaker 6: the very top, but then trickles down and then then

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Speaker 6: you tell people, and then you tell people that it

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Speaker 6: trickles down exactly. So, for example, the World Bank might

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Speaker 6: make a loan for a giant nickel mine, which then

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Speaker 6: strikes contracts with American corporations which get cheap labor working

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Speaker 6: in the mine, uh subsidized nickel that then come that

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Speaker 6: then flows into whatever kind of battery uh kind.

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Speaker 3: Of supply chain that we're structuring.

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Speaker 6: Then people then buy evs and that we then also subsidize.

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Speaker 6: So it's all for the United States. Now, then the

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Speaker 6: fight becomes who in the United States is it for?

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Speaker 6: But the idea that it's it's unfair to people in

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Speaker 6: Scranton now like it back in the back in the center,

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Speaker 6: people to fight over the spoils of war. But this

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Speaker 6: is this is just war done by other means. It's

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Speaker 6: not foreign aid. It's just extraction of wealth from around

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Speaker 6: the world.

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Speaker 4: And so do you think that the ad that we

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Speaker 4: played a clip of airing during NFL games, you know,

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Speaker 4: Battleground States, trying to get ahead of the fact that

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Speaker 4: you have a lot of Americans saying, huh, I don't

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Speaker 4: feel great about this economy, and I don't feel great

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Speaker 4: about Biden's oversight of the economy. And you see a

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Speaker 4: lot of people, especially sort of Democrat leaning or Democratic

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Speaker 4: leaning economists, who are saying, what.

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Speaker 5: Is wrong with people?

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Speaker 4: The economy is doing better, there have been gains, and

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Speaker 4: people aren't reflecting that in their sense of how the

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Speaker 4: economy is going. So Biden comes in and says, basically,

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Speaker 4: like everything is rosy.

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Speaker 5: Is that gonna work?

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Speaker 3: Well? I mean it's better than saying everything's terrible.

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Speaker 6: Probably if you're the one that's in charge, Like, because

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Speaker 6: you're in charge, you're going to get the credit of

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Speaker 6: the blame for it, you know, no matter what happens.

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Speaker 6: I think every president going forward is going to be

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Speaker 6: in a tricky situation because because of the combination of

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Speaker 6: just the general economic procarity, where at the flick of MBS's.

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Speaker 3: Risked we can be paying four dollars.

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Speaker 6: We're paying four dollars a gallon all of a sudden

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Speaker 6: because NBS decided to restrict production. Why because a year

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Speaker 6: ago I was telling me like twenty twenty four gas

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Speaker 6: prices are going to go up because MBS doesn't like

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Speaker 6: Joe Biden. And sure enough we're heading into twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 6: gas prices are going to go up, and so people

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Speaker 6: I think it gives you a sense of anxiety that

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Speaker 6: you that at any moment you could start to see

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Speaker 6: these wild swings, because we went through in twenty twenty

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Speaker 6: twenty one, these big upswing And now it's nice that

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Speaker 6: it's back to three percent, but I don't think people

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Speaker 6: feel comfortable that it's going to stay there. Combined with

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Speaker 6: housing like that, the inability of people to afford either

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Speaker 6: to buy a home, or if they bought a home,

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Speaker 6: they can't move because they're kind of locked into a

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Speaker 6: low interest rate and prices have sword everywhere else, so

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Speaker 6: they can't kind of go anywhere else.

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Speaker 3: Or if they don't have a home, they're even worse off.

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Speaker 6: And it's eating up more and more and more of

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Speaker 6: people's income. And so while everything else is true, we

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Speaker 6: have had a long run of adding jobs. You're seeing people,

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Speaker 6: you're seeing you had the unemployment rate go up this

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Speaker 6: last month because hundreds of thousands of people who had

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Speaker 6: been out of the labor force came in because they're like, Wow,

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Speaker 6: wages are up, jobs are available, I'm actually going to

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Speaker 6: try to get a job now, Like we haven't had

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Speaker 6: that practically since World War Two, and real wage growth

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Speaker 6: is happening, but in the context of the amount that

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Speaker 6: people are paying for housing and the kind of per

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Speaker 6: carreity that people feel about the future, nobody's going to

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Speaker 6: sit there and say, yeah, things are great, even if

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Speaker 6: they're so much better than they were before.

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Speaker 4: And gas prices are a huge part of that, and

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Speaker 4: you disagree with us for environmental reasons. But Biden is

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Speaker 4: going to have to answer to voters in Scranton about Keystone,

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Speaker 4: the permit for revoking the permit for Keystone, which has

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Speaker 4: given MBS even more power over our economy. And that's

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Speaker 4: really I mean, it's another interesting part and we've talked

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Speaker 4: about this a lot of the economy right now, which.

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Speaker 5: Is gas prices in some parts of the country have actually.

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Speaker 4: Been okay, not great, but okay, and then in other

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Speaker 4: parts of the country they are horrific. It just depending

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Speaker 4: on where you are, you're experiencing the economy differently.

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Speaker 5: It's the same thing.

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Speaker 4: You know, if you're in the market for a car,

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Speaker 4: if you're in the market for a house, you're experiencing

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Speaker 4: a different economy than if you're good on.

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Speaker 5: Some of those things. And so it is.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't surprise me because that also those sentiments kind

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Speaker 4: of bleed into other things, and people all pick up

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Speaker 4: on that feeling of malaise. Speaking of which we can

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Speaker 4: put a four up on the screen here. This is

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Speaker 4: from the New York Times. This is an upshot quote.

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Speaker 4: President Biden is underperforming among non white voters in New

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Speaker 4: York Times Stanate College national polls over the last year,

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Speaker 4: helping to keep the race close. In a hypothetical rematch

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Speaker 4: against Donald Trump. On average, mister Biden leads mister Trump

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Speaker 4: by just fifty three percent to twenty eight percent among

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Speaker 4: registered non white vot voters, and a compilation of polls

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Speaker 4: from twenty twenty two to twenty three, which includes over

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Speaker 4: fifteen hundred non white respondents, So that might seem like

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Speaker 4: a big margin, but as the Times continues to say,

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Speaker 4: the results represent a marked deterioration and mister Biden's support

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Speaker 4: compared with twenty twenty when he won more than seventy

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Speaker 4: percent of non white voters. So that's a seventeen percent dip,

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Speaker 4: fifty three percent after he won about seventy percent of

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Speaker 4: non white voters. Ryan those are really bad numbers for Biden.

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Speaker 6: Those are and let me say at one point on

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Speaker 6: the fossil fuel before we get to the voters. And

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Speaker 6: I'm not celebrating this, but fossil fuel production is up

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Speaker 6: from the Trump era. It's true that Nick's Keystone excel.

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Speaker 6: It's true that he just passed a regulation saying you

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Speaker 6: can't put liquid natural gas on trains. I think communities

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Speaker 6: where trains go through are probably breathing a sigh relief

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Speaker 6: over that those headlines are true. But overall, fossil fuel

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Speaker 6: production in the United States is up significantly from twenty

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Speaker 6: nineteen to twenty twenty. It's this weird kind of people

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Speaker 6: think that Sunrise movement is kind of running the White

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Speaker 6: House or something, and so therefore, you know, he's just

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Speaker 6: kept everything in the ground. But if people can just

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Speaker 6: google like the production numbers.

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Speaker 3: We're pumping an enormous amount of files.

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Speaker 6: Feel I think we have to solve it on the

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Speaker 6: demand side, like we just have to get away from it.

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Speaker 6: So that Muhammed bin Salman says, oh, yeah, well, you know,

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Speaker 6: I'm taking a million barrels a month or a million

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Speaker 6: barrels a day offline. We're like, okay, do whatever you want.

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Speaker 6: We got we got windmills and solar panels. Over here,

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Speaker 6: we got hydro, we got nuclear or whatever we like.

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Speaker 6: We're fine, and we will still have needs for gas

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Speaker 6: and for filesil fuels. But if it's if the demand

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Speaker 6: is way down, then he can't really whip us around

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Speaker 6: the way he is.

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Speaker 5: Although yeah, and we don't.

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Speaker 4: I guess I just say like things like KEISTO XL

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Speaker 4: help us sort of ease into the transition. But anyway,

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Speaker 4: the seventeen point dip among non white voters for Biden

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Speaker 4: is significant.

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Speaker 5: Again, he's still up by a big margin. I don't

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Speaker 5: know if this is through anything.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it seems like the New York Times reading

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Speaker 4: of this is that it's not something that Donald Trump

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Speaker 4: has done, because they're doing these hypothetical matchups. It's not

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Speaker 4: just the favorability of Joe Biden. It's a hypothetical matchup.

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Speaker 4: It seems like everyone's saying, well, this is a Biden problem,

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Speaker 4: not a Trump solution.

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Speaker 5: I don't know. I actually have no idea what's going

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Speaker 5: on there.

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Speaker 6: I wonder how much of it is like reverse magnetic

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Speaker 6: where As Democrats increasingly become the party of kind of suburban,

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Speaker 6: college educated voters and particularly white suburban college educated voters.

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Speaker 6: If there's just something about that coalition that pushes then

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Speaker 6: non white, non college educated and white non college educated

440
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 6: voters out of the coalition because there's just the kind

441
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:48,680
Speaker 6: of cultural differences are so.

442
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:50,439
Speaker 3: Are the class strong.

443
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, class differences that manifest as cultural differences are so

444
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 6: distinct that it makes it up. But on the other hand,

445
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 6: you had a New Deal coalition that had, you know,

446
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:08,719
Speaker 6: the NAACP and outright white supremacists, because everybody was in

447
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 6: it for higher wages, for union power, and for the

448
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 6: kind of material gains that think that the New Deal

449
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,639
Speaker 6: coalition was pushing for. So it actually is not impossible

450
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 6: to pull that coalition together. But there's something different about

451
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 6: our kind of tribalized, social media driven era that might

452
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 6: make it more difficult. But then the question will be

453
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 6: what's the what are the policy implications of that? Because

454
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 6: back in the mid nineties you had right wing Democrats

455
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 6: who were pushing really hard to say, we need to

456
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 6: move away from our working class base and we had

457
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 6: to move to the suburban voter because the suburban voter

458
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 6: is going to be more conservative.

459
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 3: On economic issues and that's where.

460
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,919
Speaker 6: We need to be, and that that lined them up

461
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 6: with their kind of corporate pack strategy, the Clintonian stuff

462
00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 6: that they where they wanted.

463
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 3: To take the party today.

464
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 6: Though if you survey suburban, white college educated voters economically,

465
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:13,400
Speaker 6: they're often to the left of non college working class people. Yeah,

466
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 6: so you get into this really awkward place where as

467
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 6: a party, to maintain a kind of left wing economic,

468
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 6: material driven agenda, you have to override what a lot

469
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 6: of working class voters are telling people non.

470
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 4: Cultural issues too, social issues, Like it's the same problem

471
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 4: that arises like when everyone tried to make LATINX happen

472
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 4: and you're working classes panic voters are like, yeah, let's

473
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 4: let's cool it with that.

474
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 6: I think I think they're backing off that somewhat, and

475
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 6: I think these numbers are a reason that they're backing off.

476
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 6: Is like, oh, okay, we tried the Oberlin approach. Yes

477
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 6: we tried, and the arrows just pointing down, So let's

478
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 6: try not.

479
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 4: You know, Actually, this isn't entirely dissimilar from what we're

480
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,479
Speaker 4: going to talk about in the next block, which is

481
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 4: Elon Musk and the Anti Defamation League. It's a pretty

482
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 4: interesting back and forth and not also dissimilar from the

483
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 4: one we talked about recently with the Center for Countering

484
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 4: Digital Hate.

485
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 5: Which Musk.

486
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,479
Speaker 4: There's a lawsuit where Musk accused the Center for Countering

487
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 4: Digital Hate of hurting X's basically relationship with the advertisers.

488
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 5: And that's from the Guardian.

489
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 4: But the Guardian also is now digging into what's going

490
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 4: on with the ADL and Elon Musk, and it's very similar.

491
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 4: It's about advertisers, so reading from them again, it says

492
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 4: Elon Musk has threatened to sue the Anti Defamation League

493
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 4: after accusing the US based civil rights group that campaigns

494
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 4: against anti Semitism and bigotry of trying to quote kill

495
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 4: his ex social media platform. The owner of X formerly

496
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 4: known as Twitter, said the ADL was trying to shut

497
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 4: down his company by quote falsely accusing it and me

498
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 4: of being anti Semitic. In a series of posts, Musk said,

499
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 4: advertising sales for the business we're down sixty percent and

500
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 4: quote based on what we've heard from advertisers, ADL seems

501
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 4: to be responsible for most of our revenue lost. He

502
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 4: also said, quote, it looks like we have no choice

503
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 4: but to file a defamation lawsuit against the Anti Defamation

504
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 4: League dot dot dot oh the irony. He also said

505
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 4: that he wants to be quote super clear he's in

506
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 4: favor of free speech, but quote against anti semitism of

507
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 4: any kind. Now, the ADL is saying that anti Semitic

508
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 4: posts on x increase sharply after Musk bought the site

509
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 4: back in October twenty two, and the platform subsequently reinstated

510
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 4: extremists and conspiracy theorists while allowing the harassment of former

511
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 4: members of its now dissolved Trust and Safety Council. A

512
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 4: lot of money on the line here, Clearly, it does

513
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 4: remind me of what some conservatives and argument you hear

514
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 4: from some people on the right and in the center

515
00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 4: even about ESG that you can have one index that

516
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 4: is following you know, whatever the rating system is, whatever

517
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 4: the environmental score system is, and you know you'll get

518
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 4: black rock embracing it. And this affects a wide swath

519
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 4: of businesses. It really affects where money is going, It

520
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 4: affects all of that sort of stuff. And so I

521
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 4: think Elon Musk is making a similar thing that like,

522
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 4: if people are funneling their ad decisions through the Anti

523
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 4: Defamation League, then in the Anti Defamation League has a

524
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,439
Speaker 4: bias against him. If you buy that argument, which I

525
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 4: mean I do, but we probably disagree on that. If

526
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 4: you buy it, then all of these advertisers are going

527
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 4: to be affected by one bias source that's not neutral.

528
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 5: But I don't think they purport to be neutral.

529
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 3: Leader right, Well, first of all, let's score the hypocrisy.

530
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 6: Like, this guy is a free speech absolutist who is

531
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,199
Speaker 6: now trying to sue his second organization for their speech,

532
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 6: and his top investors are recently Saudi Arabia recently implemented

533
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 6: a death penalty for somebody for a retweet at eight

534
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 6: followers a retweet, and this this is he has said

535
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 6: nothing about that. Where Whereas if you're a business partner

536
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 6: with somebody in a major enterprise and they use your

537
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 6: activity on your business enterprise to give somebody a death

538
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 6: penalty for a retweet, you're you're free to speak up

539
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 6: and say, you know what, I can we not do that?

540
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 6: How about not how about we don't kill that guy

541
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 6: for a retweet? Since now that goes against my beliefs

542
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 6: as a free speech absolutist anyway, So taking taking taking

543
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 6: him seriously for a second, which I don't think he is.

544
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 6: I think he just made a joke about defamation and defamation.

545
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 6: I don't think he's actually going to just wanted the joke,

546
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 6: but I think he also said that discovery as a

547
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 6: part of this lawsuit will show whether or not it's

548
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 6: true that the you know, ad L pressured all of

549
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 6: these companies to pull out their advertising money. And then

550
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,959
Speaker 6: that's why you know, Twitter is worth half of them

551
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 6: what it used to be worth. The idea that you're

552
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 6: going to win your advertisers back by suing them and

553
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 6: going through their emails is like, it couldn't be any

554
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 6: more absurd.

555
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, like that that's how you're going to win your

556
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 3: advertiser back.

557
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 6: And secondly, the idea that anybody needed the ADL to

558
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 6: step away from advertising on Twitter is also absurd. So

559
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 6: his theory is that if not for the ADL privately

560
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 6: reaching out to these corporations, these giant corporations Dove, Unilever,

561
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,719
Speaker 6: Coca Cola, all the others, would just be bidding against

562
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 6: themselves to get their advertisement under cat Turd two's hundreds of.

563
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 3: Millions of impressions.

564
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 6: Like if the CEO, then CEO is just constantly engaging

565
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 6: with cat Turd and all of his friends, it's very

566
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,959
Speaker 6: clear to the entire world what type of platform it is,

567
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 6: and then advertisers can decide whether or not they want

568
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 6: to be part of that. The fact that the ADL

569
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 6: was saying the exact same thing that everybody else was

570
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 6: saying about the platform. He also flamboyantly unbanned a bunch

571
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 6: of people who have been banned for saying like viciously

572
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:11,959
Speaker 6: anti Semitic stuff.

573
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 5: This is the true.

574
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 6: So you're like, okay, like you're gonna blame the ADL

575
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 6: for that. And I'm no fan of the ADL. I

576
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 6: think that they have stretched the definition of anti semitism

577
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 6: for political purposes in order to kind of shut down

578
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 6: any criticism of the Israeli government for instance.

579
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 3: However, in this case, I just don't think.

580
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 6: I think if the ADL never even existed, people would

581
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 6: have clearly seen the changes that he publicly said he

582
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 6: was making at Twitter.

583
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I don't think that's wrong, although I do

584
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 4: think the ADL and I think the SPLC, which we've

585
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 4: talked about here before. The SPLC is in a pretty

586
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 4: gnarly lawsuit where it had to admit that it wasn't,

587
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 4: you know, totally neutral and non biased I do think

588
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 4: those have had sweeping chilling effects on you know, not

589
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 4: just conservative organizations, but some other organizations that said and

590
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 4: that's true with that different Yeah it is, yeah, it is.

591
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 4: But the definition inflation. It also reminds me of what

592
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 4: we're talking about in the last segment. But this is

593
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 4: where it's an impossible circle to square, because I think

594
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 4: one of the things people loved about Twitter in the

595
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 4: first place, in the Halcyon days where Jack Dorsey was

596
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,959
Speaker 4: you know, renegade, is that it was this open platform

597
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 4: where people were dunking on racists and people with horrific arguments,

598
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 4: bad ideas, and it was you know, there there was

599
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 4: a time when Twitter wasn't really even quite that political

600
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 4: and it was more just fun. But there was also

601
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 4: time where like you went to Twitter and the level

602
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 4: of open speech just embarrassed everybody who was remaining. You

603
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 4: still have these like lingering, bigoted sentiments. They looked ridiculous.

604
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 4: I mean, that was the beauty of these exchanges is

605
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 4: that these minority voices, I think, if anything, were they

606
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,239
Speaker 4: were empowered by people who freaked out and tried to say, like,

607
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 4: you don't belong on the platform.

608
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 5: It was it was there was something really.

609
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 4: Powerful about when they were on the platform and getting

610
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 4: absolutely torched non stop, and there was something that people

611
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 4: looked at that and was like, Yeah, this is what

612
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 4: we do. This is what we can all agree the

613
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 4: boundaries of decency and political speech are. We don't necessarily

614
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 4: need big Brother in Silicon Valley or the government to

615
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 4: make these decisions for us. But that's obviously not happening

616
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 4: anymore because when you rely on corporate advertising dollars, it

617
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 4: doesn't matter, like they don't want their content next to

618
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 4: for instance, here's a good one, Libs of TikTok, I'm

619
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 4: reading for my colleague David Harsani. He says elon Musk

620
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 4: Contents that the ADL wants him to ban the Libs

621
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 4: of TikTok, a popular account run by orthodox jew Chiareichick,

622
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 4: who gained fame by reposting real leftists saying real things.

623
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 4: It's certainly plausible, considering the ADL already has an entry

624
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 4: for rightchick and it's quote glossary of terms. But well,

625
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 4: Harsani says, I'm not a big fan of nutpicking. I

626
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 4: haven't seen anything in her feet that could rationally be

627
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 4: construed as anti Semitic and that speaks to the problem

628
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 4: of who gets to decide what quote hate speech entails.

629
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 4: And so it's fine, I mean that's a problem with Twitter.

630
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 4: If you want to be in this business, you're gonna

631
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 4: have a hard time being in the ad sales business.

632
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 4: These two things seem utterly irreconcilable. Even though Twitter and

633
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 4: we've talked about like making Twitter a public you know,

634
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 4: utility before, because it's, you know, basically this de facto

635
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 4: town square for a very particular kind of speech.

636
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 5: I mean, it's it's a good like in this context.

637
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 4: There's some good reason for that because if you're you're

638
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,239
Speaker 4: looking at this and you're expecting advertisers to prop up

639
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 4: a platform where you necessarily, in order to be a

640
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 4: fair platform allow people to speak their mind and say

641
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 4: things that not everyone's going.

642
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 5: To agree with. Who are you going to get to

643
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 5: advertise there?

644
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I mean that's right.

645
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, make it a make it a public make an

646
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 6: actual public square.

647
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 5: An actual public square.

648
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 3: I think my idea should be adopted.

649
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 6: I already solved the cattle on independence crisis of the

650
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 6: Twitter crisis, that's right.

651
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 4: If you didn't catch Ryan solving the cattle in independence crisis.

652
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 4: Just check out our video on the Spanish Soccer Federation ahead,

653
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 4: because that's what you find it.

654
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 6: You know, have Twitter b like owned by the Corporation

655
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 6: for Public Broadcasting, and you have five board members. The

656
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 6: right can pick two, the left can pick two, and

657
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 6: then whoever wins the White House guests to pick one

658
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 6: and then they kind of like battle it out. You

659
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 6: Marjorie Taylor Green can be on there, Elon can be

660
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 6: on there, whatever, and they just then they set they

661
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 6: set policy and maybe they even have to run, but

662
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 6: they have to.

663
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 3: Get they have to get elected.

664
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 6: So we can all kind of democratically weigh in on

665
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 6: how we want this public square. And you and in

666
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 6: order to be on you have to show your driver's license.

667
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 6: I don't know MTG can figure this out when she's

668
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 6: when she and like Van Jones are on the board

669
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 6: together or whatever.

670
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, and this is the thing with Twitter,

671
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 4: it's that nobody I mean, you can try to go

672
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 4: to a subscriber model basically, which is you know, in

673
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 4: some ways what substack is doing. You know, it's the

674
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 4: New York Times thinks it's advertising revenue is going to

675
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 4: be hurt because it now has this really small niche

676
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 4: consumer base that's able to pay a lot of money.

677
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 4: You know, you have these educated, sort of liberal people

678
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 4: who have disposable income and can pay for the New

679
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 4: York Times. They don't want to see Tom Cotton's at

680
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 4: bed in twenty twenty in the New York Times. So

681
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 4: the New York Times takes it down, not for any

682
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 4: journalistic reason. I would argue that was a pretense, but

683
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 4: they take it down either way, and you know, then

684
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 4: you can go to substack, which is basically what I mean.

685
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 4: Barry Weiss ends up at Substack, is doing fabulously well

686
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 4: in Substack, and it solves the New York Times advertising problem.

687
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,399
Speaker 4: That's not great for journalism, and I don't think it's

688
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 4: great for the public square either, if we can't you know,

689
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 4: coexist together because we're all propped up by these niche

690
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 4: you know, different advertising areas as opposed to I don't know.

691
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 4: I mean, maybe a subscriber model can work for Acts,

692
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 4: it's still very much influx and in transition between what

693
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 4: it was and what Elon Musk wants it to be.

694
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 5: So I guess we'll just have to wait.

695
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, we will.

696
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 4: Well, we are not waiting to find out it's in

697
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 4: the new Huawei phone that wasn't announced was announced. Actually

698
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 4: why while Gino Raimundo was in China, right, they unreal

699
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 4: the un uh unveiled.

700
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 6: The Commerce secretary of former governor of Rhode Island was

701
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 6: visiting China trying to cool tension, and yeah, they and

702
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 6: they dropped this new phone that went viral over in China.

703
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 6: It includes some type of uh, you know, I'm not

704
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 6: even going to try to do the describe the technology.

705
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 3: Just be a waste of every just be a waste

706
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 3: of everybody's time.

707
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 6: Super cool and fast phone basically operating on some cool technology,

708
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 6: uh that Huawei has been able to develop despite and

709
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 6: and perhaps in spite of or in the face of

710
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,439
Speaker 6: US restrictions on Huawei. So the US block Huawei from

711
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 6: all sorts of kind of technological cooperation with UH with

712
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 6: US and US aligned chip makers and processors, and so

713
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 6: they kind of went back to their own drawing board

714
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 6: and came out with this with his phone that they

715
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 6: unveiled to time clearly with the Commerce Secretary going over

716
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 6: to China people saying it operates faster than.

717
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,479
Speaker 3: Some of the best, you know, five G phones out there.

718
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 6: I don't know how it seems cool, seems good and

719
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,439
Speaker 6: this is related to and we can put up this

720
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 6: this first element Reuter's reporting Bloomberg confirming that China is

721
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 6: seeking a forty billion dollar fund to invest in it.

722
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 3: It's kind of on shoring of chip.

723
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 6: Making, which would be cool because hey, China, go ahead

724
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 6: develop a massive semiconductor industry on the Chinese mainland, then

725
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 6: maybe we don't have to.

726
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 3: Have a war over Taiwan.

727
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 6: For Taiwan, which the whole thing is great, like the

728
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 6: precision needed to produce these semiconductors suggest that a war

729
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 6: zone probably is not good for business there. You think

730
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 6: good thing, Like I said, not an expert, but I

731
00:36:55,360 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 6: think probably blowing up the factories doesn't help with the development.

732
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 6: Well unless you just said, that means you have to

733
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 6: rebuild them. And that's how Japan Germany did so well

734
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 6: after World War two.

735
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 3: So maybe that's our plan.

736
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 5: Well in China.

737
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,280
Speaker 4: On shoring chip technology also puts I mean it creates

738
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 4: this or I think it exacerbates an existing tension in

739
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 4: that European countries. Other people who are you know, for

740
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 4: price competition reasons whatever, still relying on Chinese technology whatever,

741
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 4: it is you can. I mean, they're creating more reasons

742
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 4: like Germany with Russian oil, right, Like you're on the

743
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 4: hook if you're really dependent on Chinese semiconductors because so

744
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 4: much of the global semiconductor industry. If that's what happens

745
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 4: with this forty billion dollar fund continues to be exploding

746
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 4: in China at competitive rates, then it can just exacerbate

747
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 4: the dependency problem, which of course some people see is

748
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 4: a good problem to have because it will de escalate

749
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 4: any actual military tensions.

750
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 5: I'm not sure I buy that argument now.

751
00:37:55,040 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 4: Reuter's quotes an analyst with Tech Insights who says this

752
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 4: development is quote a slap in the face to the US.

753
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 4: He said, Ray Mundo comes seeking to cool things down,

754
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 4: and this chip is saying, look what we can do.

755
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 5: We don't need you. This is also from the Reuters report.

756
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 4: They say from twenty nineteen, the US has restricted Huawei's

757
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 4: access to chip making tools essential for producing the most

758
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 4: advanced handset models, with the company only able to launch

759
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 4: limited batches of five G models using stock piled chips.

760
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 4: And so now you put the sort of feet to

761
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 4: the fire when it comes to tariffs. People are going

762
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,240
Speaker 4: to be saying US policy is counterproductive, that it's creating

763
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 4: all of these different unintended consequences, when in fact, rian

764
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 4: it is also these policies, whether or not libertarians want

765
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 4: to admit it, are not just about low prices, of course,

766
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 4: in this case, they're also about making sure that if

767
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 4: there is an incursion in Taiwan, we have an ability

768
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 4: to have not just phones, not just smartphones like this

769
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,959
Speaker 4: new Huawei one, but also military technology to be able

770
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 4: to defend Taiwan.

771
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 6: Right, And the kind of ban in the crackdown and

772
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,720
Speaker 6: Huawei also came because of these military connections. This wasn't

773
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 6: just a kind of trade war between the US and China.

774
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 6: Was also the US saying, look, we've we've discovered that

775
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 6: Huawei is basically putting bugs and in a lot of

776
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 6: this technology that's five G technology that that they're helping

777
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:25,839
Speaker 6: build around the world.

778
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 3: And so they told all their allies as well.

779
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 6: Don't know no Huawei technology, because you know, we believe

780
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 6: that there were getting spied on, and US like we're

781
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 6: the only ones that are allowed to spy on it.

782
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 5: I was just going to say, I don't take that

783
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 5: message to.

784
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 6: Yeah exactly, And so that so that kind of fueled

785
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 6: then this the trade implications here, which then result in

786
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 6: Huawei uh coming through out with this breakthrough technology, which

787
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 6: once again complicates this argument that the only way that

788
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 6: you get innovation is through a kind of pure capitalist system.

789
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 6: It's obviously the case that there's some significant, you know,

790
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 6: market activity in China, but it's also very heavily directed

791
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 6: by the state.

792
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 3: It's it's not a remotely pure free market.

793
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 6: And the fact that you can continue to get economic

794
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,760
Speaker 6: growth fragilize it is now and continue to get serious innovation,

795
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 6: you know, really kind of undermines the kind of Western

796
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 6: claim that the only way to do it is is

797
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 6: through like you know, you know, tech bros taking acid

798
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 6: in Silicon Valley and getting VC money or something.

799
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, I mean that's the whole DARPA story.

800
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 3: If you like pulled, that's true exactly.

801
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 6: That's a that's a great point that was state funded

802
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 6: and produced.

803
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, if you if you pull that thread.

804
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 6: Long enough, general is taking acid, that's actually true.

805
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 4: It is amazing how many rich and powerful people were

806
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 4: taking acid.

807
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 5: Well, you know, you wrote a book on it for

808
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 5: those days.

809
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 4: This is your country on drugs by dying gram available

810
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 4: at a bookstore.

811
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 3: You're probably not actually anymore, but probably find it in.

812
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 5: Some maybe available at a bookstore here.

813
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's move on to Mitch McConnell, the big news

814
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 4: of the week, and it is really big news, continuing

815
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 4: to be really big news. Why because it's actually easy

816
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,320
Speaker 4: to forget this, but Mitch McConnell has been the Senate

817
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 4: Republican leader.

818
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 5: For sixteen years. Sixteen years.

819
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 4: It's just mind boggling when you really think of how

820
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 4: long Republicans have gone without having any leadership transition in

821
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 4: the upper Chamber.

822
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 5: It's actually shocking. I can't remember. I mean, Nancy Pelosi's

823
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 5: reign in the House wasn't that long, am I? I mean,

824
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 5: it's it's.

825
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 3: Close the same, but she's gone.

826
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, so she she also took over in two thousand

827
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 6: and seven seven, although she became leader.

828
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 3: In two like two thousand and three.

829
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 6: True, she was leader minority leader and then yeah, and

830
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 6: then took which is similar. Or maybe maybe she took

831
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 6: over in two thousand and five when Gebhart ran for

832
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:03,919
Speaker 6: president in two thousand and four and washed out.

833
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 5: Oh cap heart.

834
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,399
Speaker 4: Well yeah, well that's what the first element up here.

835
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 4: This is from CBS News reporter. It says Congress's in

836
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,879
Speaker 4: house doctor says he's examined Mitch McConnell, including a review

837
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 4: of as MRI results, and says there's no evidence of

838
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 4: seizure's disorder, stroke or Parkinson's. A lot of people immediately

839
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 4: reacted to this by saying, that's incredibly hard to believe.

840
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 4: It feels almost soviet in the level of like provda

841
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 4: type spin that we're seeing, including it seems Senator rand Paul,

842
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 4: we can put the next element up on the screen.

843
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 4: Who is a doctor. He's an eye doctors, and he's

844
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 4: an optometrist. He said, quote, I don't think it's been

845
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 4: particularly helpful to have the Senate doctor describing this as dehydration,

846
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 4: which I think even a non physician seeing that probably

847
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 4: aren't really accepting that explanation. Yeah, I would think that's

848
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 4: dead on. If most people see that letter versus the

849
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 4: two videos, one from July and one from just what

850
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 4: was last week, they're not going to look at that

851
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 4: and say, ah, yes, dehydration is what caused him to

852
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 4: pause uncomfortably for like a minute in both cases, not

853
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 4: quite a minute, probably thirty seconds, But you know when

854
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,720
Speaker 4: those seconds are so painful it feels like ten minutes

855
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 4: the thirty seconds does.

856
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 5: But let's move on to the next element here.

857
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 4: This is from The Hill which points out that editors

858
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 4: of National Review which have come out and they said that,

859
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 4: you know, Mitch McConnell is quote a legend of the

860
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 4: US Senate and quote, one of the most effective leaders

861
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 4: in memory. He should step aside from his post. And

862
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 4: then we have D four. This is from the New

863
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 4: York Times on potential replacements. From potential replacements to Mitch McConnell,

864
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,839
Speaker 4: which they list as the three Johns, and that is

865
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 4: exactly what it sounds like. John Thune, John Cornyn, and

866
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 4: John Morasso. They also float the idea of Jony Ernst

867
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 4: and Shellie Moore Capito potentially going for that top slot.

868
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 4: I have heard rumblings that Capito is a serious contender

869
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,720
Speaker 4: for that. Want to read a quote from a senior

870
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 4: Senate staffer with some color here that says, basically, quote,

871
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 4: it's an open field and there will be no coronation.

872
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 4: So this is two breaking points from a senior Senate

873
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 4: staffer who points out it's the first leadership transition in

874
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 4: sixteen years. Whoever replaces McConnell has the opportunity basically to quote.

875
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 5: Transform the Senate.

876
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 4: And it looks like the Senate staffer is basically saying

877
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 4: that John Thune is kind of doing the job of

878
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 4: leader right now. And the more that Mitch McConnell seeds,

879
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 4: the more ground McConnell seeds specifically to Thune, the more

880
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,240
Speaker 4: that there's just sort of the power of inertia moves

881
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 4: in Thune's direction and gives him the clear advantage here.

882
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,399
Speaker 4: But John Cornyn really really wants it, is what I'm

883
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 4: hearing from the source. And I definitely believe that John

884
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,959
Speaker 4: Cornyn really wants it. He's a good fundraiser, so he's

885
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 4: definitely a potential candidate. But you know, I think that's

886
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 4: where you get an edge from Jony Ernst and you know,

887
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 4: Shelley Moore capit if they want to run. Is that

888
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 4: the optics in twenty twenty three of the three John's

889
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 4: being the potential heirs to the McConnell throne are not

890
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 4: great for Republicans when they're trying to also say, I mean,

891
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 4: Barasso and Cornyn are both seventy one. Soon is like

892
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 4: sixty two, so he's slightly younger.

893
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 5: But like a bunch of old white dudes.

894
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 4: You know, those are optics that some Republicans who like

895
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 4: to exploit the identity politics angle I'm a woman angle

896
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 4: could have.

897
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 5: A lot of fun with.

898
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 6: And we have a profile of Cornyn a couple of

899
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 6: years ago that we did over at the Intercept that

900
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 6: if anybody's curious about this next potential leader, is a

901
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 6: fun one to read. He's just a very affable, old

902
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 6: school Texas oilman Republican like a Karl Rove basically recruited

903
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 6: him into politics. So that's kind of what you need

904
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 6: to know about him. Like, he's just a Rove guy

905
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 6: who's like good with the lawyers, he's good with the oilman. Uh,

906
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 6: and he's going to go like in whatever direction.

907
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 3: You know.

908
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 6: He's like very much like a Chuck Schumer or Joe

909
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 6: Biden in the sense that they're they're very good politicians.

910
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 3: They're just and if the.

911
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 6: Party is moving in one direction, they're going to move

912
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 6: in that they move in that direction.

913
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 3: Tune. Uh.

914
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 6: You know, as he accumulates power, like you said in

915
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 6: the Senate, he's going to be able to do favors

916
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 6: for people, and he's going to be increasingly then able

917
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 6: to get people you know on his side corner is

918
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 6: very popular. It's Barasso though, that is more of the

919
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 6: trumpy guy who tries to be more of the trumpet guy.

920
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 6: You Neither fun nor Cornn are kind of obsequious Trump supporters.

921
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 5: They're very similar to McConnell.

922
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 3: Barasso is more of a kind of movement conservative. I

923
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 3: would think.

924
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 6: That's interesting about Shelley Moore Capito, uh you know, good

925
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 6: friends with mansion, like the mansion more Capito dynasty. This

926
00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 6: has been this bipartisan West Virginia powerhouse for years and

927
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 6: the Mores and the Capitol is actually and she combines

928
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 6: them both there and so so you think that she

929
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 6: has a real shot or I just.

930
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 4: Think that's really easy to exploit the and if she

931
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 4: wants it, I mean she's she's probably also pretty good fundraiser.

932
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 5: I'm not sure.

933
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 4: I would have to check on that, but like, if

934
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 4: she wants it, the idea that you have these three

935
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 4: guys who are also two of whom are in their

936
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 4: seventies as well Thuhne, who's not exactly charismatic. If that's

937
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,280
Speaker 4: what you want in the Senate leader, it just depends.

938
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 4: But I could see someone really exploiting the idea that listen.

939
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 5: This has been sixteen years. You guys have been in leadership.

940
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,280
Speaker 5: I mean thun Corn and Barasso, they've been in leadership

941
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 5: for a long time. And look where we are.

942
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 4: I mean, Republicans in the Senate are not happy with

943
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 4: where they are at all. And that's another interesting thing

944
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 4: about this, where the more Mitch McConnell seems incapacitated, the

945
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 4: more you have other people running the Senate, and the

946
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 4: more people recognize exactly how poorly they think things have

947
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 4: been led under Mitch McConnell. And that's not to say

948
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,800
Speaker 4: they aren't you happy with some of the winds McConnell

949
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 4: has sort of earned over the years, whether it's you know,

950
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 4: getting Merrick Garland no vote on Merrick Garland and getting

951
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 4: all of these Senate seats pushing through cabin eugh, et cetera.

952
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 4: So it's not to say that people aren't happy with that.

953
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:14,760
Speaker 4: But when you look around and someone else is running

954
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 4: the Senate and there's a stark contrast with how it's

955
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 4: been run, that's one of those things that makes you think, oh,

956
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 4: actually the grass is really greener. That's a benefit for

957
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 4: somebody like thun if they feel like things are going

958
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 4: more smoothly under him now, but it's also an indictment.

959
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:33,760
Speaker 4: If he's someone who had been carrying out Mitch McConnell's orders,

960
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 4: people might say, well, I don't trust you to actually,

961
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 4: you know, in the long term do a great job.

962
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 4: We're going to bring someone new and maybe Jennie Ernst,

963
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 4: maybe someone from the outside.

964
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:43,320
Speaker 5: People are really unhappy.

965
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 4: From what I'm gathering, people are now just recognizing how

966
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 4: unhappy they are with how things have been running in

967
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 4: the Senate in recent years. So that could be a

968
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 4: problem for people, or it could be a benefit. If

969
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 4: you know, you're junk in and you're having some fun now.

970
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean Mitch McConnell gets selling rated as this,

971
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 6: you know, absolute genius. And yeah, he was able to

972
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 6: prevent Mark Carland from getting a vote.

973
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 3: That's basically his legacy.

974
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 6: That that plus what he was able to do abround

975
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 6: campaign finance stuff. But yeah, his performance in twenty twenty one,

976
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,320
Speaker 6: and you know, the left, you know, thinks that Biden

977
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 6: got nothing done. On the other hand, the Senate was

978
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 6: divided fifty to fifty, Joe Manchin and Kirsten Sinne being

979
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 6: two of those fifty, and they pushed through like eight

980
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 6: trillion dollars in spending American Rescue Plan, two trillion dollars

981
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 6: the IRA. Then then he got played with that Chip deal.

982
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 6: He's like, I'm not giving you that Chip deal if

983
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 6: you're still doing the IRA, and we were like, we're

984
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,280
Speaker 6: not doing the IRA. Then the past two three hundred

985
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 6: billion dollars and then Chip deal. That afternoon, Schumer and

986
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 6: Mansion put out a statement. It's like, oh, we have

987
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:47,359
Speaker 6: a deal in the IRA too.

988
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 5: That's true. I actually completely forgot.

989
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 6: How much humiliated blew up in McConnell's face, just humiliated

990
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 6: him for two straight years.

991
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:54,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, before he fell on his head.

992
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean he had huge, huge problems during

993
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 4: the Tea Party years sort of wrangling. Then what did

994
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 4: John McCain say the wacko birds at the time was

995
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 4: like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz and maybe someone would

996
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 4: put Marco Rubio in that sort of bunch.

997
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 5: But it's never, you know, been smooth.

998
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 4: He's never had a in the last ten years, at

999
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 4: least a super easy journey with the conservative movement. Although

1000
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:21,879
Speaker 4: it was you know, there were these sugar highs during

1001
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 4: the Supreme Court confirmation battles and he's had a good

1002
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 4: relationship with like judicial, the conservative judicial movement.

1003
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,280
Speaker 5: That is really what people will see this legacy.

1004
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 4: All that is to say, though, this is this is

1005
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 4: years of discontent bubbling to the surface, and that could

1006
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 4: manifest in some interesting politics that really changed the way

1007
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,319
Speaker 4: Republicans work in Washington, d C. Like, the implications for

1008
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 4: this I think are really serious and and as somebody

1009
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 4: that's like subs staunchly on the right, I would say

1010
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 4: it's a time for the Senate to really really run.

1011
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 4: Decide that it's running differently, decide that. You know, Kevin

1012
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 4: McCarthy is a great model for Republican leaders in that it's.

1013
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 5: An establishment guy.

1014
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 4: He's a politician almost corn and asque, although he was

1015
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 4: sort of changed by the Trump years. But he sees

1016
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 4: where the incentives are, and the incentives are, you know,

1017
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 4: not just paying lip service. They're not just saying X,

1018
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 4: Y and Z, They're actually taking action on certain things.

1019
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 4: So we'll see if that translates into the Senate. But

1020
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 4: for like legislation, people's daily lives, there is some stuff on.

1021
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 5: The line here in terms of how Republicans decide to

1022
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 5: manage the Senate.

1023
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 3: Right and McConnell.

1024
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 6: As you know, it was endorsed by Planned Parenthood when

1025
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 6: he first started running, Like that's how much people are

1026
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:33,839
Speaker 6: willing to.

1027
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 3: Just move around.

1028
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 6: Planned Parenthood endorsed the person who re engineered the courts,

1029
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 6: so that rog got overturned.

1030
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 5: Well done, full circle.

1031
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:44,879
Speaker 3: About that circle. It's next.

1032
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 6: We're going to talk about this this new Tucker Carlson interview.

1033
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 6: And at first I didn't even want to give this

1034
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 6: any oxygen, because yes, it's so absurd, But I think

1035
00:51:55,719 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 6: that it's worth talking about here because it's going to

1036
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 6: get oxygen no matter what we do. And I think

1037
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 6: there's some incredibly important context that people need to have.

1038
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 3: Before the full video airs.

1039
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 6: When I saw this going around on Twitter, Tucker put

1040
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 6: out this clip teasing this interview with a guy who

1041
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,760
Speaker 6: says he had texts with brocken Bat, Like, wait a minute,

1042
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 6: guy looks familiar. Is that Larry Sinclair, this absolute notorious,

1043
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 6: fabulous and liar and con man from back in two

1044
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 6: thousand and seven, two thousand and eight days, And so

1045
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 6: I think it's Tucker has not put out the full interview.

1046
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 6: Maybe Tucker includes all that context and dismantles him by

1047
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 6: the end of it. It's not what it sounds like

1048
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 6: from the trailer that he put out, So play a

1049
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 6: little bit of that, and then we'll talk about who

1050
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 6: this guy, Larry Sinclair is and why it's important that

1051
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 6: we understand what his backstory is since this is probably

1052
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 6: going to get tens of millions of views on Twitter

1053
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 6: or if you believe that counter. But even if you

1054
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 6: don't believe the counter, you think it's inflated by ten,

1055
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:00,760
Speaker 6: it's going to be a lot.

1056
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 3: And so let's roll a little bit of this clip.

1057
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 1: You're just a guy who's in town for the night,

1058
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 1: and it sounds like you're looking to parties.

1059
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 10: Yeah, pulled up in a bar outside, and there's this

1060
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 10: guy that's introduced to me as Barack Obama. I had

1061
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 10: given Barack two hundred and fifty dollars to pay for coke.

1062
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:20,759
Speaker 10: I start putting a line on a cdtroit to snow it,

1063
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 10: and next thing I know, he's got a little pipe

1064
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 10: and he's smoking. So I just started rubbing my hand

1065
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 10: along his thighs to see where it was going, and

1066
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 10: it went the direction I had intended it to go.

1067
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 1: Even though you had sex with him twice, you did

1068
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 1: cocaine with him watching him smoke crack twice.

1069
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 3: You had no idea who he were. I had no

1070
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 3: idea who he was.

1071
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 1: He just asked the obvious question, what was Obama like

1072
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: on crack? Is it your sense that that sewerbamba is

1073
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 1: just transactional, or that he's bisexual, or like, what is that?

1074
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 10: It definitely wasn't Barack's first time, and I would almost

1075
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:50,919
Speaker 10: be willing to betch it wasn't.

1076
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: As long the guy's running for president and credible information

1077
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,320
Speaker 1: comes out that he's smoking crack and having sex with dudes,

1078
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 1: that seems like a story.

1079
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 10: Well it would be a story of the media really cared.

1080
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 6: I would hope that people could see that and just

1081
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,760
Speaker 6: see how little sense all of it makes, Like paying

1082
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 6: he gave him two hundred and fifty dollars, like the

1083
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 6: meat outside of a bar. All of a sudden, he's

1084
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 6: giving him two hundred fifty dollars. Then somehow crack shows

1085
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 6: up like just the details on its own don't make sense.

1086
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:23,319
Speaker 3: What didn't he go by Barry at the time, not

1087
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 3: for rock.

1088
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 6: So this is inside the four corners of the guy's

1089
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 6: story and the best parts that go up like it

1090
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 6: to me, it's not credible, like not making sense.

1091
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:37,240
Speaker 5: From the trailer, just from the trailer, and he's dropping

1092
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 5: the interview. What Thursday so tomorrow? Is that what it is?

1093
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 3: That sounds right?

1094
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, But now since Sinclair himself basically spent most of

1095
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:47,800
Speaker 6: his adult life in and out of prison for fraud

1096
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 6: and for lying, for writing fake checks, for all sorts

1097
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:52,839
Speaker 6: of other like.

1098
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 5: Stealing tax returns.

1099
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, signature, yes, con Man type crimes. There's this is

1100
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 6: if you notice the byline on this. Spence Smith, my

1101
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 6: old colleague at Politico. I was at Politico Political at

1102
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 6: this time. The Politico his attorney or I don't think

1103
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 6: you'd call him attorney. I had to call him spokesperson

1104
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 6: because he'd already been disbarred at this point. At the

1105
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 6: time was Montgomery Blair. Montgomery Blair Sibley, who people can

1106
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 6: kind of google him too. Just an extraordinary kind of

1107
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:27,280
Speaker 6: figure in our politics like this like Gadfly. He he represented

1108
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 6: the DC Madam, and I worked with him on a

1109
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,399
Speaker 6: story back in two the Hound Steps. That's another reason

1110
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 6: I remember this, which involved me like calling him in

1111
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 6: him answering the phone like that's what I mean by

1112
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 6: working on the story, and he said a couple of

1113
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:44,760
Speaker 6: funny things, and then I quoted him. He also told,

1114
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 6: and Ben has this in his story as well, he

1115
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 6: told a judge in two thousand and four or something

1116
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 6: that he couldn't show up for sentencing or couldn't show

1117
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:56,760
Speaker 6: up for his trial because he had terminal disease.

1118
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:01,840
Speaker 3: That was twenty years ago. Clearly he's still alive.

1119
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, I forgot about that part too.

1120
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 3: Like you couldn't.

1121
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 6: And he also so he booked a National Press club

1122
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 6: during the two thousand and eight campaign, trying to get

1123
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 6: the media to pay attention to him, and it didn't

1124
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 6: work because he was never able to produce anything that

1125
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 6: could even remotely show that he and Obama were even

1126
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 6: in the same area at the same time. You have

1127
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:29,760
Speaker 6: to have something, and so not only did he have nothing,

1128
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:33,720
Speaker 6: no corroborating witnesses, no people that he told over the years.

1129
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 6: If you were trying to construct the backstory of a

1130
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:43,879
Speaker 6: non credible person, you couldn't do better than this guy

1131
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 6: who's spent most like spent, who's been charged so many

1132
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:51,760
Speaker 6: different times for crimes related to lying and deceit.

1133
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 5: It's not a good start. It's not a good start.

1134
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:56,440
Speaker 5: And the other thing is.

1135
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:58,799
Speaker 6: That's why I wanted to talk about this because I think,

1136
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 6: as as kind of untoward as it feels to even

1137
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 6: air those allegations, they're going to get aired.

1138
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 3: And I think I'm curious for your taking this.

1139
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 6: I think it's a cynical move by Tucker Carlson here

1140
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 6: because he understands that in two thousand and eight there

1141
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 6: was the internet. He did put his stuff on YouTube

1142
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 6: and it got almost a million views or something, but

1143
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 6: the mainstream media and the conservative media as well, was

1144
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 6: still playing a gatekeeper role. And there are good elements

1145
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 6: and bad elements to this gatekeeping, yep. And I think

1146
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:33,439
Speaker 6: Tucker knows now that the gate the gates are off,

1147
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 6: and that he's going to be able to like basically

1148
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 6: put this into the bloodstream and tens of millions of

1149
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 6: Americans are going to believe it without ever knowing this backstory.

1150
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 6: I mean, maybe he'll put it in the interview, but

1151
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 6: a lot of people won't even get to the end

1152
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 6: of it.

1153
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:54,479
Speaker 4: And here's the interesting context. This is why I think

1154
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 4: the Barack Obama this is like we're going into the

1155
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 4: two thousand and seven and eight fever swamps. It was

1156
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 4: all all kinds of stuff circling circulating the primary. There's

1157
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 4: plenty of dirty tricks being played by the Clinton campaign.

1158
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 5: There was plenty of wild.

1159
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 4: Stuff coming out of you know, even conservative appo dives

1160
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 4: like crazy.

1161
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, Clinton oppo dies like crazy.

1162
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 4: Stuff was circulating around back then because Barack Obama's had

1163
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 4: like an interesting life. He lived in all kinds of

1164
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 4: different countries, and he was a new type of politician

1165
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 4: that you know, was like, first of all, he had

1166
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 4: been a senator for a couple of years and people

1167
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 4: were trying to vet his record, and some really crazy stuff.

1168
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 5: Came out of that.

1169
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 4: I can't imagine what it was like to start covering

1170
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 4: some of this stuff back in two dozens.

1171
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 5: It must have been wild.

1172
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 6: One whild I think it was Ben Smith who had

1173
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 6: the story that a bunch of his friends came out

1174
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 6: and publicly said that Obama was inflating.

1175
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 3: His drug use.

1176
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 5: I actually remember that it.

1177
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 6: Was the first presidential candidate in American history who was

1178
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 6: maybe falsely elevating. The people were like Coke Barry. I

1179
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 6: don't think so, I don't think so. Yeah, this smoked

1180
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 6: a lot of weed.

1181
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 4: But now we have Kamala Harris like on Breakfast Club

1182
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 4: being like Oh yeah, I smoked weed and it was

1183
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 4: just Charlaman being like when she's like that was listening,

1184
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 4: the Snoop dies that's right.

1185
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 6: So she's the second yes, and Snoop wasn't even like

1186
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 6: signed to a label yet at that point.

1187
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1188
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 11: Right.

1189
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 4: So the reason that this has become is like sort

1190
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:24,439
Speaker 4: of bubbled to the surface of discourse again, I think

1191
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 4: is in large part from this Tablet magazine interview that

1192
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:35,440
Speaker 4: David Garrow, who's Obama's biographer, gave in early August, and

1193
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 4: he found here he talked about in his book, and

1194
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 4: the story just did get kind of buried that you know,

1195
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 4: this is this is I'm reading from a letter that

1196
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 4: Obama wrote to Alex McNair in November of nineteen eighty two.

1197
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 4: Quote in regard to homosexuality, I must say that I

1198
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 4: believe this is an attempt to remove oneself from the present,

1199
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 4: a refusal perhaps or perpetuate the endless farce of earthly life.

1200
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 4: You see, I make love to mend day, but in

1201
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 4: the imagination my mind is a drogynist to androgynist to

1202
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 4: a great extent, and I hope to make it more

1203
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 4: so until I can think in terms of people, not

1204
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 4: women as opposed to men. But in returning to the body,

1205
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 4: I see that I have been made a man, and

1206
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 4: physically in life, I choose to accept that contingency.

1207
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 5: Now that letter is at.

1208
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 4: I think it's actually at the it's in the Emory

1209
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,919
Speaker 4: University archives. They don't let you take pictures. They don't

1210
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 4: let you take it out. But Garro's friend transcribed those

1211
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 4: paragraphs by hand. He wrote them down himself and then

1212
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 4: gave them to the New York Post. It ended in

1213
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 4: and Garro's a Pulitzer Prize winner. It ended up in

1214
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 4: Garro's book. People didn't notice it when it came out.

1215
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 4: In the book, it seems to like a thousand page book,

1216
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 4: and it seemed like that tablet article, which was also

1217
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 4: like a thousand pages, is what got people to pay

1218
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 4: attention to this, because you know, everyone started accepting it

1219
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 4: on Twitter. And so the bottom line is a people

1220
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 4: are gonna be like, first of all, why does it

1221
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 4: matter that Barack Obomba sounded like Judith Butler when he

1222
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 4: was writing to a girlfriend in nineteen eighty two, And

1223
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 4: what does it matter if Barack Obama was gay? I

1224
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 4: feel like that's pretty much what the public is going

1225
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 4: to say, other than the fact that there's some intrigue

1226
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 4: to the idea that you know whatever, there are questions

1227
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 4: of why, you know, the corporate media didn't dig into

1228
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 4: all of this, you know the letter, Where was the

1229
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 4: curiosity about this because it does seem strange for a

1230
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 4: man who's married to a woman. But then you get

1231
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 4: back to the bottom question of who cares? Yeah, like, yeah, again,

1232
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,760
Speaker 4: who cares? But I think that's why Tecker Carlson, to

1233
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:35,520
Speaker 4: your point, every interview that he's done so far with

1234
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 4: Tucker on X, which I still think like X itself,

1235
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 4: is this in this flux transition period has been essentially

1236
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 4: not like perfect, this like immaculate manifestation of journalism, but

1237
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 4: a giant middle finger, intentionally, a giant middle finger to

1238
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:54,040
Speaker 4: the gatekeepers. I think that's very intentionally what he's doing

1239
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 4: and saying, Look, if the media didn't want to touch this,

1240
01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 4: despite you know, having an actual letter itself that Emmer

1241
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:02,880
Speaker 4: University is you know, not letting anyone. But if they

1242
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 4: don't want to touch it, I'm gonna have fun with

1243
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:07,920
Speaker 4: it and screw you guys for not doing it. An

1244
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 4: understandable sentiment, I will say, I'm not sure this is

1245
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 4: the best use of Tucker's time though.

1246
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I can only imagine that. Yeah, he sees

1247
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 6: that tablet thing. He's like, oh yeah, there was that

1248
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 6: crank back in eight you know, he said he hooked

1249
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 6: up with Obama. Let's let's see if that guy's still alive.

1250
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 6: Said he was termally ill. Oh turns out, aren't we lucky?

1251
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 3: That was a lie? Yeah he's still he's still alive.

1252
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, but yeah, and that's that like you read you

1253
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:38,959
Speaker 6: read it. Obama's letters from that period, from the early

1254
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 6: nineteen eighties, they're all dripping with that philosophical just you

1255
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 6: can just see it's early twenties now, men working through,

1256
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 6: working through what it means to, you know, be a

1257
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 6: person in this world. And then and this was the

1258
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:57,360
Speaker 6: period when letters were still a thing.

1259
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:00,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, you had to put everything down and write.

1260
01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:03,840
Speaker 6: And there was a there was kind of a cachet

1261
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 6: to being able to write, like these kind of profound

1262
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 6: sounding letters. People were kind of working out their identities

1263
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:16,479
Speaker 6: through their letters. That's something that's basically gone. Now we're

1264
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 6: doing the same thing, but through like TikTok or Twitter

1265
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 6: or whatever.

1266
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 5: It's a shorter form too.

1267
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 4: It's more snippets that you know, you have to sit

1268
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:26,040
Speaker 4: down and be really deliberate if you're writing a letter,

1269
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:28,280
Speaker 4: as opposed to when you're just like.

1270
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 5: Firing off a text message.

1271
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, but for hundreds of years, this was the thing

1272
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 6: that young men and young women would do.

1273
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 3: They would just.

1274
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 6: Write these like super purple letters exploring like the deepest

1275
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 6: thing He's like the philosophers and writers that he named

1276
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 6: checks in these letters are just absurd and over the top.

1277
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:46,920
Speaker 4: And I think the bit yes, And I think one

1278
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 4: of the big narratives that this is framed within is

1279
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:56,440
Speaker 4: that there were things about Barack Obama that people felt

1280
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 4: like were what's the word. I mean, he definitely was

1281
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 4: a new type of politician, and I think some folks

1282
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 4: felt like the media kind of glossed over some of

1283
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 4: these things that like if you go back to.

1284
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:13,600
Speaker 5: Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers.

1285
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:16,560
Speaker 4: And Obama coming out like genuinely coming out of the

1286
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 4: left in a way that I can't think of another

1287
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 4: like super mainstream politician after since I mean, like maybe

1288
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:24,880
Speaker 4: the only other example would be Bernie Sanders in twenty sixteen.

1289
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 4: And Obama wasn't static. He changed after he came out

1290
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 4: of the left, very clearly, but he did have a

1291
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 4: huge sort of his genesis politically was in the organizing areas,

1292
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 4: the organizing community in Chicago of the left, and that

1293
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 4: was intriguing to a lot of people, and they felt

1294
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 4: like maybe didn't get quite the attention it deserved.

1295
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 6: In the media, although it was and it shows the

1296
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 6: paucity of the left at that time. And it was

1297
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:53,240
Speaker 6: kind of like the Harvard law firm left, like the

1298
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 6: community organizing was done in like and garyl gets into

1299
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 6: this in the book in kind of collision with like

1300
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:04,480
Speaker 6: these law firms, and it's it's it's it's not that

1301
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 6: the kind of it's not that the it's not the

1302
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 6: Black Panthers. That's it's a much different type of community

1303
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:13,240
Speaker 6: organizing going.

1304
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:13,960
Speaker 5: On the ag.

1305
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:17,560
Speaker 6: Like the post Well, he ran against Bobby Rush. He

1306
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 6: ran against Bobby Rush, who was a leading black book

1307
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:24,439
Speaker 6: but before that and then he was very big into

1308
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:29,440
Speaker 6: the anti nuclear movement, anti nuclear proliferation. That's like that

1309
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 6: was a big niche issue for the left because they

1310
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 6: were they cared a lot about Latin Central America, like

1311
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:39,120
Speaker 6: because of Reaganomics and Reagan like they had been so

1312
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 6: severely routed in the kind of new deal and anti

1313
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:46,760
Speaker 6: anti war stuff that had kind of fueled what was

1314
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:49,640
Speaker 6: a left, but there wasn't much left. It's like this,

1315
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:52,000
Speaker 6: the left was left of the left, and so yes,

1316
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 6: he comes out of that. But it's a it's a

1317
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 6: it's a much kind of weaker and kind of more

1318
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 6: elite aligned movement.

1319
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:01,280
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1320
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:04,560
Speaker 4: I mean, he's just a fascinating figure. So lots for

1321
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 4: David Garrett to work with. Regardless. All right, Ron, you're

1322
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:12,560
Speaker 4: gonna take us through some election results from Rhode Island.

1323
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:14,040
Speaker 3: What have we at so progressive?

1324
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:17,200
Speaker 6: Aaron Regenberg was defeated in the Rhode Island House election

1325
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 6: last night, despite the support of Bernie Sanders and AOC.

1326
01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 3: We can put up this first element.

1327
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 6: Biden and Obama official named Gabe Ammo ended up eking

1328
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 6: out a victory against Reaganberg. This came after consolidation by

1329
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:37,240
Speaker 6: the establishment against Regenberg. A good example of it playing

1330
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 6: out here is from former Congressman Kennedy.

1331
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 3: If we can play this clip here.

1332
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 12: And I really hope this district takes Gabe and moves

1333
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 12: them on as their congressman because they won't go wrong

1334
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:53,720
Speaker 12: with Gabe. I will tell you his opponents, especially the

1335
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:56,560
Speaker 12: one that's in the front runner status right now. The

1336
01:06:56,600 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 12: notion that he would come out against the largest economic

1337
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:06,000
Speaker 12: driver in the first district, the defense economy, left me flabbergasted.

1338
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 12: The notion that you can be a good Democrat and

1339
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:13,960
Speaker 12: a liberal and not also support a strong national defense

1340
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:18,600
Speaker 12: and good jobs here at home makes no sense. Gabe

1341
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,560
Speaker 12: is a good Democrat and a strong liberal, but it

1342
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:24,360
Speaker 12: doesn't mean he's not going to fight for Rhode Island jobs.

1343
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:27,040
Speaker 12: And the way you fight for Rhode Island jobs is

1344
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:30,720
Speaker 12: you don't cancel out Jack Reid, whose chairman of the

1345
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:34,920
Speaker 12: appropriations for Defense spending. That's what Aaron Regenberg would do.

1346
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 3: So Aaron Regenberg.

1347
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 6: They're getting slammed by Kennedy, who seems genuinely angry because

1348
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 6: he recommended a significant but not that significant cut to

1349
01:07:47,240 --> 01:07:50,640
Speaker 6: the military spending budget. And and people need to understand

1350
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:53,440
Speaker 6: that is the reaction that you that you get from

1351
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 6: even you're, you know, a standard establishment Democrat who will

1352
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:00,920
Speaker 6: just publicly say, you know, how air you what on

1353
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 6: earth are you possibly doing now? Bernie Sanders Helper rally

1354
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:07,680
Speaker 6: last Sunday in Providence, Rhode Island for Aaron who was

1355
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 6: a former state legislator who pushed through a sweeping set

1356
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:16,040
Speaker 6: of kind of progressive legislation while he was in the

1357
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 6: Providence State House. But he didn't just have Kennedy and

1358
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 6: the establishment as his opponent.

1359
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:24,799
Speaker 3: And this is the story we'll talk about here, and we're.

1360
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:26,559
Speaker 6: Also going to get to the big mistakes that Aaron

1361
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:29,720
Speaker 6: Regenberg himself made at the end of this. But what's

1362
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:32,960
Speaker 6: amazing here is that for all of the anger that

1363
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 6: former Congress and Kennedy felt toward Regenberg, that was matched

1364
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 6: or even eclipsed by the anger of what you would

1365
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 6: call say the post left or maybe the online left, well,

1366
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:46,240
Speaker 6: chaos left, I don't know, Emily. We got to come

1367
01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:49,840
Speaker 6: up with a name for them, non electoral left that

1368
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:50,400
Speaker 6: believes that.

1369
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:53,320
Speaker 3: We can put up this Boston Globe article.

1370
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:57,479
Speaker 6: Who's led here by an organization that was called the

1371
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 6: co Op and then also Rhode Island DS which said

1372
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 6: that they were not they were not participating in this

1373
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 6: primary because they believe that Democratic Party is thoroughly corrupted

1374
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:11,879
Speaker 6: and et cetera. To me, that is a perfectly defensible position.

1375
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 6: You don't want to participate in a Democratic primary, You're

1376
01:09:15,400 --> 01:09:18,680
Speaker 6: under no obligation to participate in a Democratic primary. You

1377
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:22,160
Speaker 6: want to run a third party candidate. Wonderful, do that too,

1378
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:24,439
Speaker 6: this is America, run a third party candidate. But they

1379
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:28,720
Speaker 6: didn't do those things. The only they did participate in

1380
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:31,920
Speaker 6: the Democratic primary, but the way they participated in it

1381
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:36,599
Speaker 6: was by solely going after the most progressive candidate in

1382
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 6: the race.

1383
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:38,000
Speaker 3: Like that was.

1384
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:41,479
Speaker 6: They didn't have somebody else that they were supporting. They

1385
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:45,800
Speaker 6: just didn't like Regenberg. And part of it is strategic,

1386
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:48,680
Speaker 6: because the idea is that if you can elect kind

1387
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:51,120
Speaker 6: of a if Bernie and AOC can team up and

1388
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:54,720
Speaker 6: go to Rhode Island and elect a progressive legislator to

1389
01:09:54,880 --> 01:10:00,400
Speaker 6: the Rhode Island Congressional delegation, then that encourages more people

1390
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:03,400
Speaker 6: then to participate in Democratic primaries and try to take

1391
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:06,800
Speaker 6: over the Democratic Party from the inside. If you believe

1392
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:09,040
Speaker 6: that that's a dead end and you want to build

1393
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:10,840
Speaker 6: a third party instead, or you don't want to be

1394
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:13,720
Speaker 6: involved in electoral politics at all, then you need that

1395
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:17,520
Speaker 6: project to fail. And so in some ways it is strategic.

1396
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,479
Speaker 6: I think in other ways it was just nihilistic. That

1397
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 6: there's a lot of bad blood between Regenberg and some

1398
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:26,280
Speaker 6: of these other Rhode Island lefties, and so they just

1399
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 6: didn't want him to win, so they end up getting

1400
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 6: a Biden Obama official instead. This is a really kind

1401
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:35,240
Speaker 6: of sad and ignoble end to a story that started

1402
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:37,599
Speaker 6: out with a lot of promise in Rhode Island. If

1403
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:39,920
Speaker 6: we can put up this next clip, run through this

1404
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 6: story pretty quickly, so this is from twenty twenty one.

1405
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:48,840
Speaker 6: In twenty twenty, the kind of broad Rhode Island left

1406
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:53,760
Speaker 6: came together and in September of twenty twenty ousted ten

1407
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 6: incumbents in the Providence State House and ended up bringing

1408
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:01,439
Speaker 6: about a lot of progressive change in Rhode Island.

1409
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 3: And it was great.

1410
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 6: It was great to see because the idea was, look,

1411
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:07,960
Speaker 6: a lot of working class people in Rhode Island. The

1412
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:13,400
Speaker 6: Democratic Party, which is basically the only party in Rhode Island,

1413
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:17,080
Speaker 6: is not responsive to working class needs. We don't need

1414
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 6: to collect that many votes to actually get these people

1415
01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:22,920
Speaker 6: out of the State House and State Senate. So let's

1416
01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:25,679
Speaker 6: combine our forces and let's take it seriously and let's

1417
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:26,559
Speaker 6: throw these bums out.

1418
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 3: And they did that.

1419
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 6: Then in twenty twenty one, as I covered there, they

1420
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:32,360
Speaker 6: put together a slate of kind of fifty where they're

1421
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:34,840
Speaker 6: going to run a governor, a lieutenant governor up and down,

1422
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 6: they're going to take over the state House. Before that

1423
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:43,120
Speaker 6: could happen, it just collapsed in drama, utter chaos. Some

1424
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:46,200
Speaker 6: people who had been elected by this co op left

1425
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:49,640
Speaker 6: the co op for all sorts of reasons, saying that

1426
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:51,160
Speaker 6: the co op was a mess, the co op wanted

1427
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 6: to kick out some of the other members, and then

1428
01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:56,920
Speaker 6: and through this period DSA is kind of collapsing in

1429
01:11:56,960 --> 01:12:00,400
Speaker 6: its own acrimony, and recently the estate is size that

1430
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:02,560
Speaker 6: they're not doing electoral politics at all, which although that

1431
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:06,280
Speaker 6: wasn't sure, they're doing electoral politics, just not running candidates,

1432
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:08,680
Speaker 6: just engaging in electoral politics.

1433
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:10,280
Speaker 3: So we can put up this next clip.

1434
01:12:10,360 --> 01:12:13,519
Speaker 6: Dan Maren's over at huff Post kind of did a

1435
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:15,720
Speaker 6: good story on this back in, you know, the end

1436
01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:17,560
Speaker 6: of twenty twenty one. If people want to read the

1437
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:20,360
Speaker 6: kind of sad drama that brought this to an end,

1438
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:23,200
Speaker 6: and that brings us up to the place where then

1439
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:27,559
Speaker 6: in twenty twenty two, David Siegel runs in an open primary.

1440
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:29,639
Speaker 6: He has the support of the CPC, of the support

1441
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:33,679
Speaker 6: of Bernie Sanders. He ends up falling short. To Seth

1442
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:35,640
Speaker 6: Magazine or who's now going to be in office as

1443
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:39,480
Speaker 6: long as long as he wants. And then now Progressives

1444
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:41,320
Speaker 6: have swung and missed at this. So they had a

1445
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:45,200
Speaker 6: chance to have two Bernie backed members of Congress representing

1446
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:49,400
Speaker 6: Rhode Island in Congress. Instead they will now have zero

1447
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:53,599
Speaker 6: now not to let Aaron himself off the hook. If

1448
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:55,920
Speaker 6: the election were held a couple of weeks ago, he

1449
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:58,799
Speaker 6: probably wins. And that's why you hear so much panic

1450
01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:01,960
Speaker 6: in Kennedy's right there. At the last debate, he was

1451
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:06,120
Speaker 6: hammered from all sides for a superpack that his father

1452
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:09,639
Speaker 6: in law had funded on his behalf to the tune

1453
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:11,760
Speaker 6: of about one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars, which

1454
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:15,320
Speaker 6: is a small amount of money in today's politics, But

1455
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:18,479
Speaker 6: when you only need ten thousand votes, you know, and

1456
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:18,840
Speaker 6: you can.

1457
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:20,719
Speaker 3: If you can get one hundred thousand dollars of mailing,

1458
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 3: it helps.

1459
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:25,360
Speaker 6: So the question that people were asking of Aaron was

1460
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:29,160
Speaker 6: did you coordinate with this super pack? And in the

1461
01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:32,360
Speaker 6: debate he was accused of having what's called a red box.

1462
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:34,120
Speaker 3: We've talked about redboxes before.

1463
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:37,560
Speaker 6: This is a little tiny piece on your campaign website

1464
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:41,360
Speaker 6: where you click on it and it goes to it's

1465
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:45,439
Speaker 6: messaging for a super pack, like what demographics you want

1466
01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:49,439
Speaker 6: to target and with what messages it's intended. And it's

1467
01:13:49,439 --> 01:13:52,320
Speaker 6: a way to get around coordination laws because as long

1468
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:54,160
Speaker 6: as you have a link on your campaign website that

1469
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:57,800
Speaker 6: somebody can find, then you're not coordinating because it's just

1470
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:00,680
Speaker 6: public information and a superpack go out and find it.

1471
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:04,400
Speaker 6: So Mattos challenged Aaron directly, you know, did you have

1472
01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:07,599
Speaker 6: a red box on your website? And he flat out

1473
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:10,240
Speaker 6: lied in the debate and said no, he did not

1474
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:13,960
Speaker 6: have a red box. They all it took was the

1475
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:17,720
Speaker 6: way back machine, and Matos was able to show later like, no,

1476
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:21,160
Speaker 6: he did have one. So there are a lot of

1477
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:23,560
Speaker 6: different ways you can handle that if you're going to

1478
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:25,879
Speaker 6: do a summer Lee did a super pack like candidates

1479
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:27,360
Speaker 6: should not be. I mean, she didn't do a s

1480
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:31,679
Speaker 6: There were super PACs working to benefit summer Ly. Summerly

1481
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:33,559
Speaker 6: would not be in Congress right now if the Working

1482
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:36,559
Speaker 6: Families Party, Justice Democrats you know, had not come in

1483
01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 6: at the very end with this big outside spending which

1484
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:41,760
Speaker 6: is called a super pac. But Summerlee was open about it.

1485
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:44,360
Speaker 6: She's like, these super packs are supporting me. I don't,

1486
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:47,840
Speaker 6: I don't I don't like this campaign system. But a

1487
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:49,960
Speaker 6: pack is spending millions of dollars against me, So if

1488
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:52,120
Speaker 6: they want to spend a million at the end, I'm

1489
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:53,120
Speaker 6: not going to tell them not to.

1490
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 3: And she didn't lie.

1491
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:55,600
Speaker 6: About whether or not she had a red box on

1492
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:59,120
Speaker 6: her site and was coordinating with them the decision to

1493
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:02,680
Speaker 6: have a father law do the super pac kind of independently.

1494
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:04,679
Speaker 6: If I were going to be cynical about it, I'd

1495
01:15:04,680 --> 01:15:07,280
Speaker 6: tell them go give it to the Working Families Party, Go,

1496
01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:09,280
Speaker 6: you know, give it to some other organization.

1497
01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:11,280
Speaker 3: We'll just do your own super pac.

1498
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:13,559
Speaker 6: And also don't lie, like, don't if you have a

1499
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:16,880
Speaker 6: red box to be like, look, the talking point is

1500
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:19,840
Speaker 6: out there. I'm not going to unilaterally disarmed like that's

1501
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:22,599
Speaker 6: what everybody says, like I want the system to change,

1502
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:25,760
Speaker 6: but until the system changes, I'm going to fight fire

1503
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:27,000
Speaker 6: with fire, like that's all you had to do.

1504
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:27,840
Speaker 3: Instead, he said no.

1505
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:31,840
Speaker 6: And because turnout in this election was so small, that

1506
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:38,280
Speaker 6: means it's a highly informed voter demographic so and a

1507
01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:43,280
Speaker 6: highly informed electorate, so they knew like this penetrated the

1508
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:46,080
Speaker 6: consciousness of these voters. They're only thirty five thousand people

1509
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:50,000
Speaker 6: that voted. Total in this primary. This was another case where,

1510
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:52,880
Speaker 6: like with AOC, if the Left had been able to

1511
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:55,639
Speaker 6: cobble together eleven twelve thousand votes, they win. I think

1512
01:15:55,680 --> 01:15:58,800
Speaker 6: we'll see what Amo winds up with, but I think,

1513
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:01,559
Speaker 6: you know, eleven twelve thousand votes and he'll probably end

1514
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:04,920
Speaker 6: up winning by two or three thousand votes against Reagenberg.

1515
01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:08,480
Speaker 3: And so a pretty pitiful end.

1516
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:12,000
Speaker 6: To what began as a kind of hopeful moment in

1517
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:14,800
Speaker 6: twenty twenty, which kind of sums up the left I

1518
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:15,240
Speaker 6: think for.

1519
01:16:17,479 --> 01:16:18,759
Speaker 3: Over the last like three years.

1520
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:24,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that's interesting in the unilateral So there have

1521
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:27,840
Speaker 4: been a lot of responses. There has been a lot

1522
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:32,000
Speaker 4: of responses to Washington Post journalist Philip Bump's appearance on Gnomedwarman.

1523
01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:34,719
Speaker 4: He's the owner of the Comedy Sellers in New York,

1524
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:38,720
Speaker 4: his podcast, and it was fodder for a lot of

1525
01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 4: critics of media, especially to watch Bump have a very

1526
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:48,719
Speaker 4: very difficult time defending his stance that Hunter Biden doesn't

1527
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 4: go to Joe Biden, so anything that sort of affects

1528
01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:54,759
Speaker 4: Hunter Biden. There's not enough evidence suggesting that Joe Biden

1529
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:59,160
Speaker 4: was implicated and wrongdoing to basically draw conclusions about the

1530
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:02,280
Speaker 4: President Dorman and says as he opens the podcast, Basically,

1531
01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:04,800
Speaker 4: I was looking for the smartest person who disagrees with

1532
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:07,720
Speaker 4: me on Hunter Biden to come on and have a conversation.

1533
01:17:07,800 --> 01:17:10,120
Speaker 4: And basically I want to learn what the other side

1534
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 4: is and the best version of the other side, because

1535
01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:13,920
Speaker 4: I'm genuinely curious and want.

1536
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:15,400
Speaker 5: To see how it holds up to scrutiny.

1537
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:18,880
Speaker 4: Well, if you accept this as an experiment to test

1538
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:21,799
Speaker 4: that question, how well does the defense of Joe Biden

1539
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:25,400
Speaker 4: basically hold up to scrutiny? Uh, the video didn't go

1540
01:17:25,479 --> 01:17:27,519
Speaker 4: so well for Philip Bump, So let's take a look

1541
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:29,200
Speaker 4: at a quick clip from how it went.

1542
01:17:29,400 --> 01:17:31,360
Speaker 11: What do you take from the text message to his

1543
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:34,679
Speaker 11: adult daughter A hundred texts, I have to give fifty

1544
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:35,840
Speaker 11: percent of my income to pop.

1545
01:17:36,040 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 13: I have no idea what that means. I don't. I

1546
01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:39,040
Speaker 13: have no idea what that means.

1547
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:40,360
Speaker 14: It's it's it's.

1548
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:42,200
Speaker 13: I know, it's circumstantial evidence, and you prefer that what

1549
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:44,840
Speaker 13: what could be? I have no idea, but doesn't don't know. Well,

1550
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:45,800
Speaker 13: I appreciate your.

1551
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:47,400
Speaker 11: Has anybody has anybody asked her?

1552
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:49,080
Speaker 14: I don't know, I don't know.

1553
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:50,960
Speaker 11: Don't you think somebody should ask her.

1554
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:53,200
Speaker 13: Okay, like, I'm not I just said I don't know,

1555
01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:54,200
Speaker 13: and I don't know what to make of it, so

1556
01:17:54,200 --> 01:17:55,200
Speaker 13: I have nothing I could say about it.

1557
01:17:55,320 --> 01:17:55,479
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1558
01:17:56,320 --> 01:17:57,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you say there's no evident evidence.

1559
01:17:57,680 --> 01:17:59,840
Speaker 11: But then there's a text message where he says, I

1560
01:18:00,040 --> 01:18:01,320
Speaker 11: get top fifty cent of my money.

1561
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:03,080
Speaker 3: That's that's evidence.

1562
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:06,120
Speaker 13: Okay, well, okay, fine, fine, so evidence.

1563
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:06,960
Speaker 3: I appreciate your.

1564
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:07,280
Speaker 13: Having me up.

1565
01:18:07,479 --> 01:18:10,200
Speaker 11: It doesn't that's something like that. Who do you think

1566
01:18:10,240 --> 01:18:11,720
Speaker 11: is the more I saw? I lived at that I'm

1567
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:14,840
Speaker 11: saying you cagure. I don't feel you want me to leave,

1568
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:16,200
Speaker 11: Like just walk out in the middle of this. You

1569
01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:17,720
Speaker 11: can that way you can, you can go.

1570
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:18,719
Speaker 5: Is this a standard?

1571
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:19,040
Speaker 3: Really?

1572
01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 11: This is the way the Washington Post handles people who.

1573
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:23,639
Speaker 13: Disagree with When I agree to be on for forty

1574
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:25,640
Speaker 13: five minutes and then I get on for an hour

1575
01:18:25,640 --> 01:18:26,080
Speaker 13: and fifteen.

1576
01:18:26,120 --> 01:18:27,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that is at the end of the interview,

1577
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:29,960
Speaker 4: because Bump does get up and leave, but he had

1578
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:33,360
Speaker 4: been there for some hour going back and forth with Dorman.

1579
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:34,719
Speaker 5: You can actually watch the interview.

1580
01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:37,400
Speaker 4: I think it's very interesting because Philip Bump repeatedly says

1581
01:18:37,439 --> 01:18:38,439
Speaker 4: that he's kind of debunked.

1582
01:18:38,479 --> 01:18:41,439
Speaker 5: He uses the phrase debunked this idea that Joe.

1583
01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:44,680
Speaker 4: Biden is potentially implicated and Hunter's wrong doing. Dowrman there

1584
01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:47,680
Speaker 4: is referencing that text message from Hunter Biden to his

1585
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:50,880
Speaker 4: daughter Naomi Biden that was found on his laptop suggesting

1586
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:54,960
Speaker 4: he had been siphoning that his father had been getting

1587
01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:58,559
Speaker 4: money funneled to him from Hunter's work, and we know

1588
01:18:58,640 --> 01:19:02,400
Speaker 4: that his work was peddling essentially. So if you don't

1589
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:05,720
Speaker 4: care about the Hunter Biden thing, I don't particularly blame you.

1590
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:08,920
Speaker 4: I care about it because I like covering influence peddling.

1591
01:19:08,920 --> 01:19:10,439
Speaker 4: But what I want to get to the bottom of,

1592
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:12,240
Speaker 4: whether it's on the left or the right, by the way,

1593
01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:15,679
Speaker 4: is what the real world serious consequences of the double

1594
01:19:15,680 --> 01:19:17,960
Speaker 4: standards in our politics are. And at this point I

1595
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:21,000
Speaker 4: am talking about left and right, although I think it's

1596
01:19:21,000 --> 01:19:23,519
Speaker 4: particularly a problem for the left because the left is

1597
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:26,160
Speaker 4: largely in charge of the media, and the media does

1598
01:19:26,360 --> 01:19:29,080
Speaker 4: largely purport to be a neutral arbiter of a lot

1599
01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:31,040
Speaker 4: of these things. You know, Philip Bump isn't out there

1600
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:34,360
Speaker 4: saying listen, I'm a partisan Democrats, so take my perspective

1601
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:36,640
Speaker 4: with a grain of salt. He's not saying that and

1602
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:38,559
Speaker 4: I think that's a real problem. Let's put up the

1603
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:40,479
Speaker 4: second element. This is a story that you may have

1604
01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:44,479
Speaker 4: also heard. I think Crystal and Sager covered it about

1605
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:49,759
Speaker 4: this serious attempt to reign in corruption in Ukraine.

1606
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:50,960
Speaker 5: So that's from Reuters.

1607
01:19:50,960 --> 01:19:55,280
Speaker 4: It says Ukraine lawmakers back antigraph disclosure rule Comma.

1608
01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:57,559
Speaker 5: But with loophole. I wonder how the loophole got there.

1609
01:19:57,600 --> 01:19:59,719
Speaker 4: There's a lot of money flowing in the United States

1610
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:02,920
Speaker 4: in Ukraine, as we all know. We basically understand that

1611
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:05,799
Speaker 4: at this point. But what I just want to focus

1612
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:07,880
Speaker 4: our attention on for a moment is something a lot

1613
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:09,920
Speaker 4: of the media isn't talking about when it comes to

1614
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:12,400
Speaker 4: Joe Biden and when it comes to Ukraine. If we

1615
01:20:12,479 --> 01:20:15,120
Speaker 4: go back to when Joe Biden had Ukraine in his

1616
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:19,240
Speaker 4: portfolio during the Obama administration, there's this serious question of

1617
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:23,440
Speaker 4: him being sent over to Ukraine to have these conversations

1618
01:20:23,439 --> 01:20:26,760
Speaker 4: with Victor Schoken and whomever else. He's the prosecutor that

1619
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:30,919
Speaker 4: Biden ended up firing about corruption in a foreign country

1620
01:20:31,439 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 4: when his own son is being paid tens of thousands

1621
01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:36,360
Speaker 4: of dollars a months, like eighty thousand dollars a month

1622
01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:40,679
Speaker 4: by Barisma by a corrupt oil and gas company in Ukraine.

1623
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:43,519
Speaker 4: So this is America taking their credibility and all of

1624
01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:46,200
Speaker 4: their aid money back in the Obama administration over to

1625
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:48,120
Speaker 4: Ukraine and saying, you guys, really got to clean up

1626
01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:50,960
Speaker 4: your corruption. The messenger for that really needed to clean

1627
01:20:51,040 --> 01:20:53,360
Speaker 4: up his own corruption, as even people in the State

1628
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:56,679
Speaker 4: Department recognized when they realized what Hunter Biden was doing

1629
01:20:56,720 --> 01:20:59,160
Speaker 4: with the Biden family name back at the time. Fast

1630
01:20:59,160 --> 01:21:03,200
Speaker 4: forward to twenty twenty twenty three, Joe Biden is overseeing

1631
01:21:03,280 --> 01:21:06,519
Speaker 4: millions and millions of dollars going over to Ukraine, and

1632
01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:08,440
Speaker 4: he is completely compromised.

1633
01:21:08,439 --> 01:21:09,759
Speaker 5: There's just no other question.

1634
01:21:09,880 --> 01:21:13,320
Speaker 4: There's no question about it, because even Philip Bump recognizes

1635
01:21:13,360 --> 01:21:16,240
Speaker 4: that what Hunter Biden did with the Joe Biden family.

1636
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:17,200
Speaker 5: Name was wrong.

1637
01:21:17,600 --> 01:21:20,320
Speaker 4: And whether or not you think Joe Biden literally profited

1638
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:22,040
Speaker 4: from any of that, whether or not you think he's

1639
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:24,479
Speaker 4: been honest, et cetera, et cetera, it is absolutely no

1640
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:29,200
Speaker 4: questions asked affecting the way affecting the moral credibility of

1641
01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:32,680
Speaker 4: the United States as they say, hey, let's put a

1642
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:35,320
Speaker 4: pause on some of this corruption. This is hard earned

1643
01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:38,360
Speaker 4: American tax payer dollars we're giving it to you to

1644
01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:40,760
Speaker 4: fight this war effort. We need to make sure that

1645
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:43,439
Speaker 4: it's going to the right places. Our moral credibility is

1646
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:47,160
Speaker 4: absolutely hampered by the reality that the Biden family name

1647
01:21:47,360 --> 01:21:52,120
Speaker 4: was being used to pedal influence for the last decade. Essentially,

1648
01:21:52,720 --> 01:21:55,120
Speaker 4: Now this goes in both directions. We can talk about

1649
01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:58,120
Speaker 4: Jared Kushner. For instance, you get to a place where

1650
01:21:58,320 --> 01:22:02,200
Speaker 4: basically the left has no ability on Jared Kushner. There's

1651
01:22:02,280 --> 01:22:04,760
Speaker 4: some serious problems there people on the left who don't

1652
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:07,519
Speaker 4: care about Hunter but care about Jared, which I would

1653
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:11,519
Speaker 4: argue is most of the left is in a huge

1654
01:22:11,520 --> 01:22:14,880
Speaker 4: credibility deficit once again, and I get that they'll say,

1655
01:22:14,920 --> 01:22:17,360
Speaker 4: you know, why should we talk about Jared? Or I

1656
01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:19,639
Speaker 4: get why people on the right would say why should

1657
01:22:19,640 --> 01:22:21,719
Speaker 4: we talk about Jared? When when it came to Hunter,

1658
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:24,880
Speaker 4: you know, you had twenty twenty In twenty twenty, the

1659
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:28,639
Speaker 4: intelligence community, you had top democrats, you had big tech

1660
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:32,160
Speaker 4: rallying in this concerted effort to censor information about it.

1661
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:34,559
Speaker 4: I get why conservatives don't want to touch the Jared stuff.

1662
01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:38,200
Speaker 4: But once again, if you are implicated in influence pedaling,

1663
01:22:38,280 --> 01:22:41,080
Speaker 4: as Jared Kushner has been, when it comes to Saudi Arabia,

1664
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:44,200
Speaker 4: leaving the Trump administration with Saudi Arabian in his portfolio

1665
01:22:44,320 --> 01:22:48,040
Speaker 4: and then getting a massive influx of investment money from

1666
01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:54,400
Speaker 4: Saudi Arabia from the Saudi Investment Bank, then yeah, you're

1667
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:58,720
Speaker 4: a huge credibility problem once again. And let's put up

1668
01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:02,519
Speaker 4: the next element, because this is another serious consequence of

1669
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:05,400
Speaker 4: double standards. This is a New York Times headline, and

1670
01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:07,080
Speaker 4: if you're listening to this, I wish you could see

1671
01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:10,559
Speaker 4: the picture. It's a juxtaposition of Diane Feinstein and Mitch McConnell.

1672
01:23:10,800 --> 01:23:14,240
Speaker 4: The New York Times asks reluctant to require retire leaders

1673
01:23:14,320 --> 01:23:17,920
Speaker 4: raise a tough question how old is too old? Once again,

1674
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:20,759
Speaker 4: a consequence of the double standard is that the left

1675
01:23:20,800 --> 01:23:24,320
Speaker 4: has no credibility saying that Mitch McConnell needs to retire, which,

1676
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:28,040
Speaker 4: by the way, Mitch McConnell absolutely needs to retire, and the.

1677
01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:29,280
Speaker 5: Right loses credibility.

1678
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:31,799
Speaker 4: Although most people on the right are not defending Mitch McConnell,

1679
01:23:31,800 --> 01:23:33,559
Speaker 4: as we talked about earlier in the show, most people

1680
01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:35,479
Speaker 4: on the right are eager for Mitch McConnell to go,

1681
01:23:35,800 --> 01:23:38,679
Speaker 4: but defenders of Mitch McConnell lose their credibility on Joe

1682
01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:42,320
Speaker 4: Biden and on Diane Feinstein if they are defending Mitch

1683
01:23:42,439 --> 01:23:45,479
Speaker 4: McConnell or not saying anything about Mitch McConnell. What is

1684
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:48,120
Speaker 4: the consequence of all of this. That's the central point

1685
01:23:48,120 --> 01:23:49,799
Speaker 4: I want to make. This is not just a media

1686
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:52,400
Speaker 4: play thing. It is not a political football that would

1687
01:23:52,439 --> 01:23:56,040
Speaker 4: just punt around to what about Jared Kushner, What about

1688
01:23:57,200 --> 01:24:00,000
Speaker 4: Hunter Biden? What about Mitch McConnell, what about Diane Fines's.

1689
01:24:00,479 --> 01:24:02,799
Speaker 4: This is a political football that's way too often treated

1690
01:24:02,840 --> 01:24:05,080
Speaker 4: like it's part of a game here in Washington, d C.

1691
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:08,200
Speaker 4: But there are actual serious consequences to it, which is that,

1692
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:11,439
Speaker 4: in a normal circumstance, you look at Joe Biden and say,

1693
01:24:11,479 --> 01:24:13,960
Speaker 4: it is abundantly clear this man should not be running

1694
01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:16,120
Speaker 4: for a second term as president. He wandered out of

1695
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:19,320
Speaker 4: a medal of honor ceremony just yesterday in a painful way.

1696
01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:22,880
Speaker 4: It happens every week, seemingly every day, there's a moment

1697
01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:26,400
Speaker 4: that is just cringeworthy, and you feel badly for the

1698
01:24:26,400 --> 01:24:28,800
Speaker 4: man because perhaps you see some of your own relatives

1699
01:24:29,200 --> 01:24:29,559
Speaker 4: in him.

1700
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:31,600
Speaker 5: We've all watched this happen before.

1701
01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:33,839
Speaker 4: And it's sad it belongs to nowhere near the presidency,

1702
01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:36,919
Speaker 4: and in a normal media atmosphere and a normal political discourse,

1703
01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:39,280
Speaker 4: we would know that we would understand it, and we

1704
01:24:39,280 --> 01:24:42,280
Speaker 4: would be able to have somebody, whether Democrat or Republican,

1705
01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:45,280
Speaker 4: who's at least more competent and able to have conversations

1706
01:24:45,320 --> 01:24:48,400
Speaker 4: with world leaders that they understand, is able to be

1707
01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:51,920
Speaker 4: trusted when they're negotiating with world leaders. That Okay, I

1708
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:55,519
Speaker 4: believe Joe Biden heard me and understood me, and whatever

1709
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:58,840
Speaker 4: we're working on, that'll be just fine. Same thing with

1710
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:02,400
Speaker 4: Nann Feinstein, who's been and Senate leadership for forever, Mitch McConnell,

1711
01:25:02,439 --> 01:25:05,719
Speaker 4: who is Senate leadership for Republicans. It's a real problem

1712
01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:08,920
Speaker 4: for the United States both how we're negotiating with Ukraine

1713
01:25:08,920 --> 01:25:12,120
Speaker 4: and negotiating with Saudi Arabia that we lack credibility.

1714
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:12,400
Speaker 5: On those two fronts.

1715
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:15,120
Speaker 4: So all of this is just to point out that,

1716
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:18,040
Speaker 4: you know, it's easy to do the what about thing,

1717
01:25:18,080 --> 01:25:20,720
Speaker 4: and I actually believe that there are some legitimate circumstances

1718
01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:24,360
Speaker 4: to do it, because again, well what about Hunter Biden.

1719
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:26,400
Speaker 4: When people are bringing up Jared Kushner and you had

1720
01:25:26,439 --> 01:25:29,200
Speaker 4: all like this massive concerted effort to blott it, to

1721
01:25:29,680 --> 01:25:32,280
Speaker 4: block out some information on him. I get it, but

1722
01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:34,439
Speaker 4: I just wanted to pause for a moment as we

1723
01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:37,080
Speaker 4: kick around these things like political footballs, and realize that

1724
01:25:37,320 --> 01:25:40,360
Speaker 4: the double standards, I think, largely fueled by the media,

1725
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:45,280
Speaker 4: fueled by people like Philip Bump, this hypocrisy actually is.

1726
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:48,719
Speaker 4: It may not have real world consequences for reporters in Washington,

1727
01:25:48,800 --> 01:25:51,840
Speaker 4: d C. Who have comfy lives, but it does have

1728
01:25:52,080 --> 01:25:54,040
Speaker 4: consequences for the country in.

1729
01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:57,360
Speaker 5: The near term and in the long term. Ryan. It's

1730
01:25:57,400 --> 01:25:59,759
Speaker 5: just frustrating because I know it's also.

1731
01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:06,000
Speaker 4: We're joined now by Sarab Amari, the founding editor of

1732
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:08,479
Speaker 4: The Great Compact magazine, which you should subscribe to if

1733
01:26:08,479 --> 01:26:10,679
Speaker 4: you're not already subscribed to it. He's also the author

1734
01:26:10,680 --> 01:26:14,240
Speaker 4: of the new book Tyranny, Inc. How Private Power Crushed

1735
01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:16,720
Speaker 4: American Liberty and What to do about it. We're going

1736
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:19,439
Speaker 4: to get into the question of private power in just

1737
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:21,519
Speaker 4: one second, but so Rob, first of all, thanks for

1738
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:22,200
Speaker 4: coming on the show.

1739
01:26:23,960 --> 01:26:26,280
Speaker 15: Thanks for having me in. Good to see you Emily

1740
01:26:26,439 --> 01:26:28,200
Speaker 15: at a distance. Nice to meet you Ryan.

1741
01:26:28,720 --> 01:26:29,920
Speaker 3: Same here, same here.

1742
01:26:30,120 --> 01:26:33,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's start with this question of private power. Especially

1743
01:26:33,240 --> 01:26:34,840
Speaker 4: we can put the first element up on the screen

1744
01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:37,280
Speaker 4: when it comes to a couple of things that I

1745
01:26:37,280 --> 01:26:41,040
Speaker 4: think are creating a really important moment for the right

1746
01:26:41,240 --> 01:26:44,160
Speaker 4: this fall. Actually just this fall, we have real safety

1747
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:46,240
Speaker 4: on the table. There's a bipartisan rail bill has been

1748
01:26:46,280 --> 01:26:49,479
Speaker 4: supported by the likes of jd Vance, but opposed by

1749
01:26:49,520 --> 01:26:52,280
Speaker 4: other people on the right. Actually, you know, John Thune

1750
01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:54,519
Speaker 4: comes to mind, somebody who was involved in the private

1751
01:26:54,560 --> 01:26:57,360
Speaker 4: power of the rail industry. Actually for a while has

1752
01:26:57,400 --> 01:27:00,280
Speaker 4: really stalled out in Congress. I think that's both due

1753
01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:04,320
Speaker 4: to corporate Dems and corporate Republicans, but truly on the right.

1754
01:27:04,400 --> 01:27:06,880
Speaker 4: This has created a huge debate. It should be on

1755
01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:08,519
Speaker 4: the table this fall, it may or may not be.

1756
01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:10,760
Speaker 4: And also if we go to the second element, the

1757
01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:14,799
Speaker 4: UAW we can talk more about this in detail, but huge,

1758
01:27:14,920 --> 01:27:16,880
Speaker 4: I mean the labor movement right now I think is

1759
01:27:16,920 --> 01:27:18,920
Speaker 4: creating in and of itself a put up or shut

1760
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:20,080
Speaker 4: up moment for the right and.

1761
01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:21,720
Speaker 5: Digging into some of these disputes.

1762
01:27:21,960 --> 01:27:24,040
Speaker 4: So I want to get your take on the kind

1763
01:27:24,080 --> 01:27:27,960
Speaker 4: of confluence of these two things as Congress is back,

1764
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:30,720
Speaker 4: you know, basically this week and they have a hugely

1765
01:27:31,160 --> 01:27:32,840
Speaker 4: chaotic fall in front of them.

1766
01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:34,200
Speaker 5: It's absolutely packed.

1767
01:27:34,600 --> 01:27:36,559
Speaker 4: Do you similarly see this as a kind of put

1768
01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:40,639
Speaker 4: up or shut up moment for the realigning conservative movement?

1769
01:27:40,720 --> 01:27:44,840
Speaker 4: The realigning right that now has this more working class coalition,

1770
01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:48,800
Speaker 4: especially among voters than it did in the past, likes

1771
01:27:48,840 --> 01:27:50,800
Speaker 4: to talk about the middle class a lot because of

1772
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:55,320
Speaker 4: agreement consensus on some cultural issues, but you know, maybe

1773
01:27:55,360 --> 01:27:57,320
Speaker 4: hasn't taken the steps necessary. A lot of people in

1774
01:27:57,320 --> 01:27:59,559
Speaker 4: the left are skeptical that has taken the steps necessary

1775
01:27:59,720 --> 01:28:02,800
Speaker 4: to really support the working class on policy measures. So A,

1776
01:28:02,960 --> 01:28:04,160
Speaker 4: do you see it as a put up er shut

1777
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:07,880
Speaker 4: up moment? And then B, how are Republicans faring in

1778
01:28:07,960 --> 01:28:09,000
Speaker 4: this test so far?

1779
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:14,320
Speaker 15: Yeah, it's absolutely a put upper shut up moment emily,

1780
01:28:14,360 --> 01:28:16,160
Speaker 15: but it's not the first one.

1781
01:28:16,200 --> 01:28:19,920
Speaker 14: Certainly. There were many such tests that came even during.

1782
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:25,080
Speaker 15: The Trump administration, and despite the Trump campaign's very pro

1783
01:28:25,120 --> 01:28:28,680
Speaker 15: worker rhetoric that was born out in some things like

1784
01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:33,120
Speaker 15: trade policy, but in many other instances, even the Trump administration,

1785
01:28:33,240 --> 01:28:37,800
Speaker 15: notwithstanding the president's own kind of sensibility and instincts, ended

1786
01:28:37,880 --> 01:28:42,160
Speaker 15: up acting like any other union busting type of conventional

1787
01:28:42,200 --> 01:28:46,960
Speaker 15: Republican party and its largest biggest legislative accomplishment, as you know,

1788
01:28:47,160 --> 01:28:50,559
Speaker 15: was a corporate tax cut engineered by then House Speaker

1789
01:28:50,600 --> 01:28:52,960
Speaker 15: Paul Ryan. But here we have another one, and I

1790
01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 15: think it's it's a very important one, because the right

1791
01:28:55,200 --> 01:28:59,519
Speaker 15: made a lot of noise after East Palestine, Ohio, that incident,

1792
01:28:59,720 --> 01:29:04,200
Speaker 15: you'll remember, was framed in its typical kind of the

1793
01:29:04,320 --> 01:29:07,000
Speaker 15: right stance for the working class, for the heartland, for

1794
01:29:07,560 --> 01:29:11,760
Speaker 15: kind of the forgotten inner country. But right now, as

1795
01:29:11,800 --> 01:29:15,599
Speaker 15: you said, this reform legislation that's been pushed forward by

1796
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:19,720
Speaker 15: actually Senator Vance and a number of Democratic allies he's

1797
01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:22,400
Speaker 15: found on the other side of the aisle is stalling

1798
01:29:22,479 --> 01:29:27,040
Speaker 15: mainly because of you know, Senator McConnell and other other

1799
01:29:27,240 --> 01:29:31,000
Speaker 15: kind of hardline free market Republicans who answer to the

1800
01:29:31,080 --> 01:29:33,559
Speaker 15: Chamber of Commerce more than they do to any other

1801
01:29:33,600 --> 01:29:38,160
Speaker 15: constituency in the United States. So I think, and it's

1802
01:29:38,240 --> 01:29:41,479
Speaker 15: very important to note what the what the cause was

1803
01:29:41,560 --> 01:29:46,640
Speaker 15: actually Senator Rubio, Senator Vance wrote a letter, you know,

1804
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:49,320
Speaker 15: homing in on the fact that it's kind of this

1805
01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:54,840
Speaker 15: neoliberal model of absolutely minimizing labor costs so that you

1806
01:29:54,960 --> 01:29:58,880
Speaker 15: have ever more material on the nation's railways with ever

1807
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:02,920
Speaker 15: fewer workers because they do this kind of just in

1808
01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:08,439
Speaker 15: time scheduling, which was popular especially before the pandemic, to

1809
01:30:08,479 --> 01:30:10,599
Speaker 15: minimize labor costs. But what that means is that each

1810
01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:14,559
Speaker 15: sort of ton tonnage of rail content has fewer safety

1811
01:30:14,600 --> 01:30:16,640
Speaker 15: professionals to deal with it, and therefore, if there is

1812
01:30:16,680 --> 01:30:19,920
Speaker 15: an accident, both they're more likely and more likely to

1813
01:30:19,960 --> 01:30:23,519
Speaker 15: be catastrophic. So yeah, it's a put up er shout

1814
01:30:23,560 --> 01:30:26,040
Speaker 15: up moment, and we'll see how the Republican Party fares

1815
01:30:26,120 --> 01:30:29,519
Speaker 15: the UAW. I could just briefly say, what the you know,

1816
01:30:29,520 --> 01:30:32,960
Speaker 15: there's an element of fears about what the green transition

1817
01:30:33,040 --> 01:30:34,960
Speaker 15: will mean, which I think are pretty legitimate, and I

1818
01:30:34,960 --> 01:30:39,400
Speaker 15: think Republicans can speak pretty cogently to that given.

1819
01:30:39,160 --> 01:30:40,360
Speaker 14: Their skepticism of.

1820
01:30:42,320 --> 01:30:45,160
Speaker 15: Some of the green agenda, and some of that skepticism,

1821
01:30:45,320 --> 01:30:48,160
Speaker 15: as you know, I think is well founded. But there's

1822
01:30:48,200 --> 01:30:50,240
Speaker 15: this other element that has to do with the fact

1823
01:30:50,240 --> 01:30:54,840
Speaker 15: that there are two tier contracts at the Big three automakers,

1824
01:30:55,240 --> 01:30:59,360
Speaker 15: where typically younger workers who come in don't get to

1825
01:30:59,400 --> 01:31:02,640
Speaker 15: benefit from the same sort of middle class stability and

1826
01:31:02,720 --> 01:31:06,320
Speaker 15: lack of precarity that used to characterize manufacturing jobs in

1827
01:31:06,360 --> 01:31:08,559
Speaker 15: the auto sector back in the day, and so the

1828
01:31:08,600 --> 01:31:13,240
Speaker 15: battle is over workers, including older workers, out of solidarity

1829
01:31:13,280 --> 01:31:18,559
Speaker 15: with their young successors on the factory line, demanding that

1830
01:31:18,600 --> 01:31:22,160
Speaker 15: there should be kind of uniform contracts that are you know,

1831
01:31:22,240 --> 01:31:26,040
Speaker 15: you don't have this tier model again if you have

1832
01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:28,559
Speaker 15: a Republican Party that claims to be pro worker, and

1833
01:31:29,040 --> 01:31:31,360
Speaker 15: you know, President Trump, as you know, won the highest

1834
01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:37,679
Speaker 15: marginal share of union households for any Republican nominee since

1835
01:31:38,080 --> 01:31:41,200
Speaker 15: Ronald Reagan in nineteen eighty four. He won those union

1836
01:31:41,200 --> 01:31:44,479
Speaker 15: households by precisely by speaking to you know, those kinds

1837
01:31:44,479 --> 01:31:47,880
Speaker 15: of workers. And so if it doesn't deliver for them,

1838
01:31:48,160 --> 01:31:51,040
Speaker 15: and continues for the most part, with few exceptions like

1839
01:31:51,080 --> 01:31:54,160
Speaker 15: Senator Rubio Vance Holly, for the most part gives workers

1840
01:31:54,240 --> 01:31:57,559
Speaker 15: the back of the hand, then I think that it's

1841
01:31:58,000 --> 01:32:02,040
Speaker 15: easy to predict those workers becoming apathetic again and certainly

1842
01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:04,559
Speaker 15: leaving the Republican Party or finding you know, their more

1843
01:32:04,640 --> 01:32:07,360
Speaker 15: comfortable home on the on the Democratic left, which is

1844
01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:11,120
Speaker 15: all sorts of other problems. But in short, I agree

1845
01:32:11,160 --> 01:32:11,599
Speaker 15: with you.

1846
01:32:12,200 --> 01:32:15,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, and so what what's going to shake things loose

1847
01:32:15,640 --> 01:32:18,080
Speaker 6: for the Republican Party. So next next week is the

1848
01:32:18,080 --> 01:32:22,080
Speaker 6: contract deadline for the UAW after which you could see

1849
01:32:22,120 --> 01:32:25,120
Speaker 6: a strike. And I'm curious if you think you're going

1850
01:32:25,200 --> 01:32:28,640
Speaker 6: to see support for let's if they do go on

1851
01:32:28,680 --> 01:32:31,120
Speaker 6: a strike, support for the striking workers like it.

1852
01:32:31,520 --> 01:32:33,479
Speaker 3: Are we at a point where you're.

1853
01:32:33,320 --> 01:32:37,120
Speaker 6: Starting to see a transition from Republicans saying that they're

1854
01:32:37,160 --> 01:32:40,200
Speaker 6: pro worker to Republicans also being pro union or is

1855
01:32:40,200 --> 01:32:43,880
Speaker 6: that too big of a bridge at this point because

1856
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:46,559
Speaker 6: of the kind of you know, power base that you

1857
01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:50,640
Speaker 6: accurately identify in the Republican Party as the kind of

1858
01:32:51,200 --> 01:32:54,920
Speaker 6: you know, car dealer Republican, the small to medium time

1859
01:32:55,000 --> 01:32:57,439
Speaker 6: gold wall, you know, the same kind of force that

1860
01:32:58,000 --> 01:33:02,400
Speaker 6: fired Goldwater is filled so dominant within the Republican Party, and.

1861
01:33:02,320 --> 01:33:04,679
Speaker 3: They are you know, they hate nothing more than unions.

1862
01:33:05,160 --> 01:33:08,599
Speaker 6: So what you know, are you know, how how far

1863
01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:10,040
Speaker 6: do you have to go to you get from pro

1864
01:33:10,080 --> 01:33:11,040
Speaker 6: work at a pro union?

1865
01:33:13,280 --> 01:33:14,800
Speaker 14: Well, that's that's a really good question.

1866
01:33:14,880 --> 01:33:17,360
Speaker 15: I would say that as far as this battle coming

1867
01:33:17,439 --> 01:33:20,720
Speaker 15: up next week, you know, I can't predict what individual

1868
01:33:20,720 --> 01:33:24,200
Speaker 15: senators will do, but if you know, if the past

1869
01:33:24,280 --> 01:33:26,720
Speaker 15: is any precedent, you know, you'll remember when there was

1870
01:33:26,760 --> 01:33:31,479
Speaker 15: a the looming rail strike last fall.

1871
01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:34,120
Speaker 14: If I remember correctly, I think last November.

1872
01:33:34,520 --> 01:33:37,280
Speaker 15: Uh, you did have a number of Republicans in the

1873
01:33:37,320 --> 01:33:39,800
Speaker 15: Senate stepping in and saying no, Congress should not put

1874
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:43,240
Speaker 15: a put a stop to their ability to to strike,

1875
01:33:43,280 --> 01:33:46,280
Speaker 15: actually going against the Biden administration in that case, that

1876
01:33:46,400 --> 01:33:50,679
Speaker 15: rare case. You've had Senator Rubio speak out for Amazon

1877
01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:54,720
Speaker 15: workers at at a warehouse in Alabama and Bessemer.

1878
01:33:55,280 --> 01:33:55,479
Speaker 14: Uh.

1879
01:33:55,520 --> 01:33:57,559
Speaker 15: So there are these kind of green shoots, and so

1880
01:33:57,600 --> 01:34:00,759
Speaker 15: we'll see how they react to this case. But more broadly,

1881
01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:04,639
Speaker 15: I mean, I think the dynamic is such that if

1882
01:34:04,680 --> 01:34:08,240
Speaker 15: the Republican Party doesn't deliver for the growing number of

1883
01:34:08,280 --> 01:34:12,000
Speaker 15: working class people who rally to it, often for cultural reasons,

1884
01:34:12,600 --> 01:34:18,080
Speaker 15: then you know they will become apathetic and begin to

1885
01:34:18,120 --> 01:34:23,000
Speaker 15: get disillusioned with the party. Now, one of the reasons

1886
01:34:23,040 --> 01:34:27,280
Speaker 15: that existing unions are so close to the Democrats is

1887
01:34:27,320 --> 01:34:31,439
Speaker 15: precisely because they've since the Nixon era. Nixon was the

1888
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:35,000
Speaker 15: last president who actually competitively fought for their union vote.

1889
01:34:35,160 --> 01:34:37,160
Speaker 15: Since the next in era, the party has become much

1890
01:34:37,200 --> 01:34:40,439
Speaker 15: more again I use the term neoliberal, much more sort

1891
01:34:40,439 --> 01:34:43,760
Speaker 15: of resolutely just on the side of employers and corporations,

1892
01:34:43,840 --> 01:34:46,880
Speaker 15: and so unions keep getting the back of the hand

1893
01:34:47,040 --> 01:34:50,280
Speaker 15: from the Republican Party. Of course, they'll just cling ever

1894
01:34:50,360 --> 01:34:53,400
Speaker 15: more tightly to the Democratic Party. The reason that's the

1895
01:34:53,439 --> 01:34:57,080
Speaker 15: problem is because, first of all, it means that we

1896
01:34:57,120 --> 01:34:59,400
Speaker 15: don't have an independent labor movement. We have a labor

1897
01:34:59,439 --> 01:35:03,320
Speaker 15: movement that is deeply dependent on one side of the

1898
01:35:03,320 --> 01:35:06,920
Speaker 15: political aisle. It also means that we have a labor

1899
01:35:06,960 --> 01:35:11,000
Speaker 15: movement that, you know, becomes ever more culturally polarizing in

1900
01:35:11,040 --> 01:35:14,040
Speaker 15: a way that's not good for its larger cause. Right

1901
01:35:14,080 --> 01:35:18,960
Speaker 15: when the AFLCIO says we are basically maximal on abortion rights,

1902
01:35:19,520 --> 01:35:21,679
Speaker 15: you know, some workers might be pro abortion, but plenty

1903
01:35:22,000 --> 01:35:22,920
Speaker 15: are more conservative.

1904
01:35:22,960 --> 01:35:26,600
Speaker 14: They may not be, you know, utterly completely.

1905
01:35:26,160 --> 01:35:28,439
Speaker 15: Opposed to abortion, but they may want limits at fifteen

1906
01:35:28,479 --> 01:35:30,840
Speaker 15: weeks or twenty weeks or what have you. There's no

1907
01:35:30,920 --> 01:35:33,680
Speaker 15: reason why their labor union should take a stance on

1908
01:35:33,720 --> 01:35:35,799
Speaker 15: that that is so at odds with what they believe.

1909
01:35:37,080 --> 01:35:41,120
Speaker 15: But things will stay that way unless enough Republicans reach

1910
01:35:41,160 --> 01:35:44,720
Speaker 15: out to organized labor that it becomes possible for there

1911
01:35:44,800 --> 01:35:48,760
Speaker 15: to be for workers to have an organized voice in

1912
01:35:48,840 --> 01:35:52,519
Speaker 15: the Republican Party in the same way that, for example,

1913
01:35:52,560 --> 01:35:55,839
Speaker 15: small business has an organized voice within.

1914
01:35:55,640 --> 01:35:56,519
Speaker 14: The Republican Party.

1915
01:35:56,560 --> 01:35:59,720
Speaker 15: And then you can do coalitional politics, like you can

1916
01:36:00,360 --> 01:36:06,040
Speaker 15: between the various coalitions of the Republican Party and achieve

1917
01:36:06,160 --> 01:36:08,920
Speaker 15: things that are you know, maybe not everyone will be

1918
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:11,200
Speaker 15: completely happy, but everyone will be somewhat happy.

1919
01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:12,559
Speaker 14: But in order to.

1920
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:15,040
Speaker 15: Get there, you need the courage of a few Republicans

1921
01:36:15,080 --> 01:36:17,360
Speaker 15: who are willing to break with the orthodoxity.

1922
01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:19,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think this fall is such a big

1923
01:36:19,520 --> 01:36:21,680
Speaker 4: test of that. I want to get your temperature. My

1924
01:36:21,760 --> 01:36:24,880
Speaker 4: last question for your so, Rob is on the Trump

1925
01:36:25,080 --> 01:36:27,400
Speaker 4: I think this was a truth social post where he

1926
01:36:27,520 --> 01:36:31,280
Speaker 4: goes after the UAW and says, basically, Mexico and Canada

1927
01:36:31,400 --> 01:36:34,839
Speaker 4: love Biden's idiotic policy, Save Michigan and the other auto states,

1928
01:36:34,840 --> 01:36:39,120
Speaker 4: save the American consumer basically from electric cars. Trump says,

1929
01:36:39,520 --> 01:36:42,400
Speaker 4: you know, Sean Faine, the respected president of UAW, cannot

1930
01:36:42,439 --> 01:36:45,040
Speaker 4: even think about along all electric cars. They will all

1931
01:36:45,080 --> 01:36:48,040
Speaker 4: be made in China, and the auto industry in America

1932
01:36:48,080 --> 01:36:51,080
Speaker 4: will cease to exist. And you mentioned so, Rob, how

1933
01:36:51,240 --> 01:36:54,280
Speaker 4: a lot of union workers particularly flock to Trump for

1934
01:36:54,400 --> 01:36:58,040
Speaker 4: cultural reasons. Now, I think you'll probably have some people

1935
01:36:58,200 --> 01:37:02,400
Speaker 4: flocking or people posing the u a W if they

1936
01:37:02,479 --> 01:37:04,839
Speaker 4: give in too much to the kind of green agenda

1937
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:09,519
Speaker 4: of the Biden administration. So how then do Republicans morally

1938
01:37:09,960 --> 01:37:12,719
Speaker 4: do the right thing when it comes to the UAW

1939
01:37:13,040 --> 01:37:16,600
Speaker 4: electric cars, the workers in Michigan, and then politically do

1940
01:37:16,680 --> 01:37:18,840
Speaker 4: the right thing. What is the answer to that kind

1941
01:37:18,840 --> 01:37:20,400
Speaker 4: of difficult balancing act.

1942
01:37:20,800 --> 01:37:23,880
Speaker 14: Yeah, well, first of all, I mean, if they're if Republicans.

1943
01:37:23,280 --> 01:37:26,040
Speaker 15: Are in the arena and not so utterly hostile the

1944
01:37:26,080 --> 01:37:29,120
Speaker 15: bulk of them to organized labor, then you can influence

1945
01:37:29,240 --> 01:37:29,840
Speaker 15: organized labor.

1946
01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:32,200
Speaker 14: Right, This is how kind of politics works.

1947
01:37:32,479 --> 01:37:32,599
Speaker 7: Uh.

1948
01:37:33,200 --> 01:37:35,200
Speaker 15: You know, if you have a stake in something, you

1949
01:37:35,280 --> 01:37:37,760
Speaker 15: get to have a say in it as well. And

1950
01:37:37,840 --> 01:37:41,720
Speaker 15: so you know, I think that that is a reasonable

1951
01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:48,679
Speaker 15: concern about Green, the Green transition threatening existing manufacturing jobs

1952
01:37:48,680 --> 01:37:52,799
Speaker 15: that are high, you know, relative hy wid and quite secure.

1953
01:37:53,760 --> 01:37:56,559
Speaker 15: And I do know that the UAW has made public

1954
01:37:56,640 --> 01:38:01,120
Speaker 15: noises about its concerns, you know, public it's concerns to

1955
01:38:01,200 --> 01:38:04,840
Speaker 15: the Obama sorrys of the Obama investration for Indian stuff.

1956
01:38:04,520 --> 01:38:08,040
Speaker 14: To the Biden administration about the transition.

1957
01:38:08,640 --> 01:38:12,320
Speaker 15: That said, I will say that, you know, I'm of

1958
01:38:12,360 --> 01:38:15,320
Speaker 15: the view that green needn't necessarily mean job killing it.

1959
01:38:15,360 --> 01:38:16,920
Speaker 15: You know, in other words, there's a tendency on the

1960
01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:19,719
Speaker 15: right when they look at something like the Inflation Reduction Act,

1961
01:38:19,920 --> 01:38:22,320
Speaker 15: and they think, oh, it's all green subsidies. The Green

1962
01:38:22,360 --> 01:38:24,519
Speaker 15: transition is something that a lot of our kind of

1963
01:38:24,640 --> 01:38:27,840
Speaker 15: rivals like China are putting enormous amounts of investment into

1964
01:38:27,880 --> 01:38:29,719
Speaker 15: because they see it as an industry of the future

1965
01:38:29,760 --> 01:38:33,120
Speaker 15: that's important. And so you know, you know, we should

1966
01:38:33,240 --> 01:38:36,920
Speaker 15: absolutely try to preserve existing auto manufacturing jobs. I'm in

1967
01:38:36,960 --> 01:38:39,360
Speaker 15: favor of that, but to look in a long term

1968
01:38:39,400 --> 01:38:41,960
Speaker 15: and think about what we can do industrial policy wise

1969
01:38:42,000 --> 01:38:44,799
Speaker 15: to bring these jobs, which can be high waged jobs,

1970
01:38:45,200 --> 01:38:47,160
Speaker 15: to the United States or more of them to the

1971
01:38:47,280 --> 01:38:49,360
Speaker 15: United States and take them away from China. I think

1972
01:38:49,360 --> 01:38:52,680
Speaker 15: that's part of this kind of industrial policy package. And

1973
01:38:52,720 --> 01:38:56,120
Speaker 15: when I compare, for example, how someone like National Security

1974
01:38:56,160 --> 01:38:59,439
Speaker 15: Advisor Jake Sullivan thinks and talks about this stuff with

1975
01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:02,639
Speaker 15: the republic Can Party, I can't but say that, Okay,

1976
01:39:02,680 --> 01:39:05,240
Speaker 15: this this, this is a serious party of government, the

1977
01:39:05,280 --> 01:39:08,000
Speaker 15: Democrats with which I have big disagreements, to be sure,

1978
01:39:08,320 --> 01:39:10,400
Speaker 15: and then you have a Republicans who are just I

1979
01:39:10,400 --> 01:39:12,840
Speaker 15: don't know, there's a kind of just nearly reactionary and

1980
01:39:12,880 --> 01:39:17,640
Speaker 15: saying like, well, they're going to take your jobs. You know,

1981
01:39:17,680 --> 01:39:20,680
Speaker 15: it's sort of lopsided you look in terms of seriousness,

1982
01:39:20,720 --> 01:39:23,719
Speaker 15: So anyway, I think that's a it's a hard needle

1983
01:39:23,760 --> 01:39:24,520
Speaker 15: to thread.

1984
01:39:24,280 --> 01:39:28,920
Speaker 6: No doubt, we'll say Sorbo Mari. The book is Tyranny, Inc.

1985
01:39:29,560 --> 01:39:32,240
Speaker 6: Thanks thanks for joining us. We'll be following the w

1986
01:39:32,360 --> 01:39:38,040
Speaker 6: strike closely. The rail fight hopefully isn't over yet. Appreciate

1987
01:39:38,040 --> 01:39:38,720
Speaker 6: you joining us.

1988
01:39:40,120 --> 01:39:41,799
Speaker 14: Thank you both, Thanks Ryan.

1989
01:39:42,320 --> 01:39:44,400
Speaker 4: Thanks so much so Rob. That does it for us today.

1990
01:39:44,439 --> 01:39:46,760
Speaker 4: We'll be back next week. And again, I think we're

1991
01:39:46,800 --> 01:39:49,120
Speaker 4: at the one year anniversary of counterpoints, so maybe we'll

1992
01:39:49,160 --> 01:39:50,960
Speaker 4: do something a little special for that.

1993
01:39:51,040 --> 01:39:54,040
Speaker 5: I don't know. Maybe you'll bring in brownies. Oh, there

1994
01:39:54,040 --> 01:39:57,439
Speaker 5: we go, who knows, we'll see, We'll see

1995
01:39:57,760 --> 01:40:03,880
Speaker 6: All right, stick around see you then, Ms.