1
00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,040
Speaker 1: This is the Labor Podcast with your host JJ zacherthas

2
00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:06,400
Speaker 1: J J.

3
00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:07,280
Speaker 2: Zacher reson.

4
00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,280
Speaker 1: What's up everyone, It's JJ zacharyesin in this episode ten

5
00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,360
Speaker 1: ninety three of the Late Round Fantasy Football Podcast. Thanks

6
00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,320
Speaker 1: for tuning in. You've now heard episodes on the quarterback

7
00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,000
Speaker 1: and running back classes. To wrap up the series, We've

8
00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,520
Speaker 1: got one more and that's a wide receiver. As I

9
00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,680
Speaker 1: do each year, I pick the brain to my friend

10
00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,800
Speaker 1: Matt Harmon for today's episode. He's an analyst over at

11
00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,000
Speaker 1: Yahoo and he's the owner of Reception Perception of Methodology

12
00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,280
Speaker 1: that he uses for charting wide receivers. We discuss a

13
00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,839
Speaker 1: ton of players in this year's class, and as usual,

14
00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,199
Speaker 1: Matt brings the heat. Now, before we get into that interview,

15
00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:48,320
Speaker 1: I need to send another reminder. Check out the Late

16
00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,080
Speaker 1: Round Prospect Guide. It's one hundred and seventy pages of

17
00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:55,480
Speaker 1: analytical information about this year's class and includes information on

18
00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,640
Speaker 1: second year players as well, all for nineteen ninety nine.

19
00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,080
Speaker 1: And if you get the died before the NFL Draft happens,

20
00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,280
Speaker 1: you'll get the post draft version of that guy. Just

21
00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,760
Speaker 1: hours after the NFL Draft ends. It'll be emailed to you.

22
00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,039
Speaker 1: So check it all out lateround dot com. Now here's

23
00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:17,080
Speaker 1: the interview with my pal, Matt Harmon. Matt, you're on

24
00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,679
Speaker 1: the show every year at this point. I think this

25
00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:21,720
Speaker 1: is like year four or something like that of you

26
00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,360
Speaker 1: doing the prospecting stuff for the wide receivers. So a

27
00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,240
Speaker 1: lot of people who listen to the show know about

28
00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:32,040
Speaker 1: reception perception. But if they don't, for whatever reason, explain

29
00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,760
Speaker 1: what you do with reception perception, why it's so important

30
00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:36,959
Speaker 1: to this wide receiver evaluation process.

31
00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, So for reception perception, what I do is over

32
00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,520
Speaker 2: an eight game sample for NFL players and college prospects,

33
00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,560
Speaker 2: when enough film is available on the college prospects, I

34
00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,040
Speaker 2: go and I chart every single snap, every single route

35
00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,400
Speaker 2: that they run over that eight game sample. I chart

36
00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,560
Speaker 2: a bunch of different data points. Mostly at what matters

37
00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,640
Speaker 2: is the route data, the success rate, verseuse coverage, which

38
00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,120
Speaker 2: is how often they're getting open excuting their assignments, separating, etc.

39
00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,480
Speaker 2: On those in individual in particular routes against man zone

40
00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,760
Speaker 2: press coverage. I also chart alignment that's not just slot outside,

41
00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,040
Speaker 2: whether they're off the ball, on the ball. It's really

42
00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:15,840
Speaker 2: trying to give you the full picture of what a

43
00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,200
Speaker 2: wide receiver is in addition to some metrics, I can

44
00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,120
Speaker 2: tested catch data what they're doing in space from a

45
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,680
Speaker 2: tackle breaking perspective, which I think is really important when

46
00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,280
Speaker 2: we're starting to look at individual receiver archetypes. And why

47
00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,320
Speaker 2: I think this matters is because or why I thought

48
00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,799
Speaker 2: it mattered twelve years ago when I started doing this

49
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,240
Speaker 2: for NFL and college prospects, is that the goal is

50
00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,320
Speaker 2: to try as best as we can, and it obviously

51
00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,400
Speaker 2: is not a completely possible endeavor because that's not how

52
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,400
Speaker 2: football works. But try as best as we can to

53
00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,200
Speaker 2: isolate the wide receiver from surrounding variables. Because you know

54
00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,520
Speaker 2: this as somebody that is knee deep in production. Is

55
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,920
Speaker 2: that production obviously has to come from a lot of

56
00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:59,240
Speaker 2: other variables going the right way. You know, everything needs

57
00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,280
Speaker 2: to kind of happen in a certain way for a

58
00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:05,200
Speaker 2: wide receiver to get that production. Obviously, those outside variables

59
00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,400
Speaker 2: matter when we're looking for how does this guy produce?

60
00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,480
Speaker 2: Is he going to be a viable fantasy option? But

61
00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,480
Speaker 2: even the good stats, you know, like yards per outrun,

62
00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,400
Speaker 2: which is a great stat obviously things need to go

63
00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:19,919
Speaker 2: right for the receiver to get those yards. The receiver

64
00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:21,320
Speaker 2: needs to go. Things need to go right for the

65
00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,320
Speaker 2: receiver to get those targets. So I think truly the

66
00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,920
Speaker 2: only way you can really isolate a player from all

67
00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,400
Speaker 2: the surrounding variables is to watch every single snap, watch

68
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,799
Speaker 2: every single route, and try to chart that as best

69
00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,760
Speaker 2: as you can. So really, like, in one way, reception

70
00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,600
Speaker 2: perception is just like me collecting and showing you my

71
00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,920
Speaker 2: work from the last twelve years that I've been doing

72
00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,400
Speaker 2: this so that we can compare individual players to each other,

73
00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,080
Speaker 2: classes to each other, and everything like that.

74
00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:48,840
Speaker 1: Can we also have a really quick discussion This can

75
00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,800
Speaker 1: be a minute long, but you mentioned it, yeah, yeah,

76
00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:56,120
Speaker 1: but sure, yeah, it's never a minute long where like

77
00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,200
Speaker 1: I feel like there is this notion out there, whether

78
00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,520
Speaker 1: you're coming from an even opened up the Prospect Guide

79
00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:05,600
Speaker 1: with this, uh, with this discussion this year in the

80
00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,040
Speaker 1: Prospect Guide. But talking about how film lies, talking about

81
00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,840
Speaker 1: how numbers lie, guys they both lie. It's up to

82
00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,000
Speaker 1: the end we're we're trying to directionally get to the

83
00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,120
Speaker 1: right place, right, and that that's what reception perception is doing.

84
00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,080
Speaker 1: It's taking things to a different level in order to

85
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,360
Speaker 1: directionally get to the right place. It's not to say

86
00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:28,240
Speaker 1: that everything I do from a production standpoint is going

87
00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,240
Speaker 1: to be flawless, and that it's going to be right,

88
00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,279
Speaker 1: and that it's like the result is going to end

89
00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,520
Speaker 1: up a certain way, and the same thing with you.

90
00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,000
Speaker 1: What I think is important is that there are different methodologies.

91
00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:39,920
Speaker 1: You know, I talked to Matt Waldman on Perspectives that

92
00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,960
Speaker 1: dropped last week. Uh, and you know on that show,

93
00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,839
Speaker 1: we like you can find two polar opposite people in

94
00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,279
Speaker 1: terms of how we're approaching prospecting me and him. But

95
00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,960
Speaker 1: to me, if you find common ground on a player,

96
00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,560
Speaker 1: or if or if what I'm seeing is similar to

97
00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,800
Speaker 1: what you're seeing, to me, that's probably getting us closer

98
00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:00,719
Speaker 1: to the right answer with the player.

99
00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,040
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. I think I've always said this that

100
00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:10,560
Speaker 2: reception perception is not like some skeleton key, right, And

101
00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,920
Speaker 2: anyone who out there who is selling their services as

102
00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,720
Speaker 2: some sort of skeleton key, you should run away from

103
00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:21,080
Speaker 2: that person as fast as you possibly can. I encourage

104
00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,400
Speaker 2: on my show. I've cited you in my write ups

105
00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,560
Speaker 2: many times, like I think, and I've said this to

106
00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,920
Speaker 2: you when I had you on Reception Perception the show

107
00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,040
Speaker 2: earlier this year. I think you're the best data based

108
00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:34,000
Speaker 2: prospector out there. So I encourage my subscribers and people

109
00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,760
Speaker 2: who read my stuff to buy your draft guide and

110
00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,760
Speaker 2: compare our notes and contrast like where we, you know,

111
00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,080
Speaker 2: are different, because I think that's the best way that

112
00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,920
Speaker 2: you're gonna get in the right Like, I think that

113
00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:46,839
Speaker 2: that's a really good way of saying it. In that like,

114
00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:48,679
Speaker 2: am I always going to walk you through the front

115
00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,000
Speaker 2: door of the house, Not necessarily, but I'm at least

116
00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,440
Speaker 2: going to get you on the right street hopefully right,

117
00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:54,880
Speaker 2: you know, like I'm gonna get you trying to get

118
00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,560
Speaker 2: you in the neighborhood of these players essentially, And like

119
00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,560
Speaker 2: for me, yeah, like I don't I don't think reception

120
00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,400
Speaker 2: perception is flawless. I don't think any methodology is flawless.

121
00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,120
Speaker 2: And like there's gonna be some you wouldn't even know,

122
00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,520
Speaker 2: I mean unless you were in the room with the

123
00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,400
Speaker 2: coach that drew up the play and all this stuff,

124
00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:14,240
Speaker 2: like you're not gonna there's always things that you're not

125
00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,640
Speaker 2: gonna know and everything like that. So yeah, I think

126
00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,360
Speaker 2: the enemy of good is perfect and ulto. Like what

127
00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,320
Speaker 2: we're what we're trying to do is try to do

128
00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:22,960
Speaker 2: this the best that we can, and I think that

129
00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,479
Speaker 2: as long as you come out with that with you know,

130
00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,400
Speaker 2: some humility and some grace and like I did a

131
00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,800
Speaker 2: whole video on my YouTube channel recently talking about like

132
00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,360
Speaker 2: my five biggest misses from the last few classes, which

133
00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,400
Speaker 2: is that super fun? No, but it's the reality, Like

134
00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:39,960
Speaker 2: everybody knows it. It's out there on the internet. So yeah,

135
00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,280
Speaker 2: I mean, I think both of us have a good

136
00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:44,839
Speaker 2: level head when it comes to this stuff that you know,

137
00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,360
Speaker 2: we're not perfect and nobody is out there.

138
00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:50,280
Speaker 1: I think it's also important before we get into this

139
00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,919
Speaker 1: discussion that you and I throughout like basically when January

140
00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,279
Speaker 1: hits and we start really prospecting stuff. Like we're friends,

141
00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,520
Speaker 1: We text about this stuff. We talk about this stuff

142
00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,640
Speaker 1: pretty freequently, and so hopefully this discussion that you guys

143
00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:04,640
Speaker 1: are about to listen to is more of just that

144
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,839
Speaker 1: as opposed to like, you know, some really processed and

145
00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,160
Speaker 1: button up You know, I know that you guys over

146
00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,280
Speaker 1: at Yahoo are doing your thing, but this is this

147
00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,480
Speaker 1: is late round fantasy football where we can wear gym

148
00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,560
Speaker 1: shorts all the time, you know, you know.

149
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, I'm shoot it up over here for sure.

150
00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, all right, we let's talk about this class.

151
00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,320
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, how would you compare this class as a

152
00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,000
Speaker 1: whole compared to you know, some of the recent ones

153
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:30,480
Speaker 1: that we've seen.

154
00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:32,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, So one of the exercises I do is I

155
00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,000
Speaker 2: keep stacked rankings on my site. And this is from

156
00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,560
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, which is the year the reception not

157
00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,120
Speaker 2: the your reception perception started, but the site started. So

158
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,440
Speaker 2: when those prospects started hitting that particular site, I just

159
00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,600
Speaker 2: started ranking those guys every single class. So I think

160
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:50,560
Speaker 2: it's a really good way to kind of refer back

161
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,000
Speaker 2: to different classes and how I viewed different classes as

162
00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,320
Speaker 2: when we're looking at the current group here, and I

163
00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,880
Speaker 2: think when you look at it through that lens, there's

164
00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,000
Speaker 2: no what I would call tier one wide receiver prospect,

165
00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,520
Speaker 2: which is Malik Neighbors. You know, was one of those guys.

166
00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,080
Speaker 2: Marvin Harrison Junior. I know it hasn't worked out in

167
00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,560
Speaker 2: the NFL perfectly just yet, but he was one of

168
00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,400
Speaker 2: those guys. I also would have said, like a Garrett Wilson,

169
00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,560
Speaker 2: a Chris o'lave, advante Smith, a Drake London, like those

170
00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,840
Speaker 2: guys are tier one receiver prospects. To me, we don't

171
00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,160
Speaker 2: necessarily have one of those guys in this class. Like

172
00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,200
Speaker 2: you can set it and forget it. Take this guy

173
00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,840
Speaker 2: in the top ten, if not top five picks. Jamar

174
00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:27,960
Speaker 2: Chase would obviously be one of these players as well.

175
00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:30,000
Speaker 2: You can take this guy in the top five, top

176
00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,080
Speaker 2: ten picks in every single draft class. That's not necessarily

177
00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,360
Speaker 2: what we have here. However, I think we have a

178
00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,440
Speaker 2: really good group of what i'd call tier two and

179
00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,680
Speaker 2: tier three receiver prospects that can go inside the first round,

180
00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,360
Speaker 2: and some of them you know, more late one, early

181
00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,280
Speaker 2: round two type of guys. Obviously, I'm not ranking the

182
00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,240
Speaker 2: full class with every single position. That's way outside my

183
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,120
Speaker 2: pay grade. But when I talk to people who do

184
00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,320
Speaker 2: that sort of exercise, this is not a class overall

185
00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:01,360
Speaker 2: that is super filled with, you know, clear round one grades.

186
00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,000
Speaker 2: Like I just had Dane Brugler on my show, and

187
00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,240
Speaker 2: he's the I only think he has like fifteen true

188
00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,800
Speaker 2: first round grades in this year's class. So it's kind

189
00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,640
Speaker 2: of befitting of that entire that that entire group of

190
00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:15,680
Speaker 2: what the whole class is is what the wide receiver

191
00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:17,280
Speaker 2: group is, which is I don't think we have like

192
00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,760
Speaker 2: one true, true, true stud as we've had in some

193
00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,120
Speaker 2: previous years. But I think we've got a really good

194
00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,319
Speaker 2: group of tier two receiver prospects, which by the way,

195
00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:28,360
Speaker 2: is not bad at all. Like just a couple of

196
00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,680
Speaker 2: guys I've ranked in Tier two, you know, somewhat recently,

197
00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:33,719
Speaker 2: like jsn was a Tier two prospect to me. I

198
00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,720
Speaker 2: thought Tedoro McMillan was a Tier two prospect. So some

199
00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,280
Speaker 2: really good Jalen Wattle a Tier two prospect, Like really

200
00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,640
Speaker 2: good players have been in that second tier and it

201
00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,559
Speaker 2: just kind of takes a few breaks and maybe a

202
00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:45,280
Speaker 2: little bit of development for some of those guys.

203
00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that, you know, what I'm seeing from

204
00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,280
Speaker 1: a modeling perspective is pretty similar. I've talked about it

205
00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:52,200
Speaker 1: on the show, especially when you align it with like

206
00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,360
Speaker 1: projected draft capital at this point, like we're right now,

207
00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,920
Speaker 1: if you look at you know, like NFL mock draft database,

208
00:09:57,960 --> 00:09:59,839
Speaker 1: the amount of Day one and Day two wider s

209
00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,520
Speaker 1: that are projected now to be fair, I remember doing

210
00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,520
Speaker 1: this exercise I think last year or the year before that,

211
00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:06,560
Speaker 1: and it was pretty similar and then we didn't.

212
00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,880
Speaker 3: Get as much you know, day one, Day two, But.

213
00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,360
Speaker 1: Right now it's projected to basically be the highest that

214
00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,120
Speaker 1: we've seen tied for the highest that we've.

215
00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,600
Speaker 3: Seen since like twenty eleven. So like, but I think

216
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,800
Speaker 3: that that aligns with what I'm like.

217
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:23,040
Speaker 1: I see a lot of average to above average profiles

218
00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,199
Speaker 1: for you know, round two, round three type players, and

219
00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,560
Speaker 1: like you said, if it is a weaker class elsewhere,

220
00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:31,520
Speaker 1: it might just push these guys naturally up the board

221
00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:33,240
Speaker 1: a little bit. And I know that people are gonna

222
00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,559
Speaker 1: start yelling at me, being like, oh, well, draft capital

223
00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,199
Speaker 1: is one of your inputs, and how do you account

224
00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:37,480
Speaker 1: for that?

225
00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:38,920
Speaker 3: And you don't, I mean I can't.

226
00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna ask you about I was gonna

227
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,520
Speaker 2: ask you about that because that's something I've thought a

228
00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,320
Speaker 2: lot about actually with wide receivers, and it's sort of

229
00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,880
Speaker 2: dovetail dovetails into a conversation that you and I had

230
00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,440
Speaker 2: earlier this year on my show about you know, how

231
00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,760
Speaker 2: many how I think there's too many good wide receivers

232
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,720
Speaker 2: in the league. And part of that how it affects

233
00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:02,280
Speaker 2: drafting and draft prospecting is that I think we could

234
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,040
Speaker 2: debate whether some of those guys that are gonna get

235
00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,319
Speaker 2: pushed up the board, you know, whether if there's gonna

236
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,160
Speaker 2: be like eleven seventeen guys taking in the top one

237
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,120
Speaker 2: hundred picks or whatever. Are they actually top one hundred

238
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,000
Speaker 2: prospects or is it just like you look at a

239
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:17,920
Speaker 2: wide receiver and you're like, I know how to incorporate

240
00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,319
Speaker 2: that into my NFL offense. Like there's a guy in

241
00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,200
Speaker 2: Omar Cooper Junior who could go in the first round

242
00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,400
Speaker 2: this year that you know, I kind of waffle on

243
00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,640
Speaker 2: whether he's like is he a clear first round players?

244
00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,040
Speaker 2: You more round two round two border, But like, I

245
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:30,760
Speaker 2: know that evaluators are gonna look at it and be like, well,

246
00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,640
Speaker 2: I know exactly how that applies to an NFL offense.

247
00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:35,160
Speaker 2: You see what I'm saying, So like, yeah, of course

248
00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,480
Speaker 2: I think that that that could. Do you ever think

249
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:38,920
Speaker 2: about that from because I think about a lot of

250
00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,520
Speaker 2: ways where the game has changed and the league has changed, Like, Okay,

251
00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,160
Speaker 2: these inputs from a reception perception standpoint matter more than

252
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,200
Speaker 2: they did four or five years ago. And I just

253
00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,920
Speaker 2: wonder from like a database perspective when we're looking at

254
00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,920
Speaker 2: like draft capital and things like that, and just like

255
00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,439
Speaker 2: the like even the quality of competition at wide receiver

256
00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,199
Speaker 2: rooms in college football, Like does that sort of stuff

257
00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,240
Speaker 2: change how you might look at it from a data

258
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:02,520
Speaker 2: perspective down the line.

259
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:03,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent.

260
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,040
Speaker 1: I mean, well, I would say this though with the

261
00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,920
Speaker 1: draft capital thing, you know, I think there's a difference

262
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,360
Speaker 1: between what I'm modeling for and what you're looking at

263
00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,640
Speaker 1: and charting in a way that you're doing more talent

264
00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,280
Speaker 1: evaluation work right with that, Like like not to say

265
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,600
Speaker 1: that you're not going to evaluate like fit and stuff

266
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:22,319
Speaker 1: once they get drafted or like what they're gonna do

267
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,040
Speaker 1: in fantasy, but like this model is quite literally aiming

268
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,319
Speaker 1: towards projecting two of their you know, their their two

269
00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,160
Speaker 1: best seasons out of their first three in the NFL.

270
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,280
Speaker 1: And so if there's a team that says, you know, look,

271
00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,240
Speaker 1: if a team reaches there's a lot of data that

272
00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,360
Speaker 1: suggests that reaching for a wide receiver based on mock

273
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,720
Speaker 1: draft data, you know, like too two at well, going

274
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:41,320
Speaker 1: way ahead of.

275
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:43,120
Speaker 3: Where we expect them to go.

276
00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,960
Speaker 1: There's a lot of data like research it says that

277
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,760
Speaker 1: I've done that says, hey, this guy is it's a

278
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,120
Speaker 1: little bit scary to go after this player. But if

279
00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,960
Speaker 1: you're talking like ten spots in the second or third

280
00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,480
Speaker 1: you know, day two spots that's not a big deal

281
00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,319
Speaker 1: if they're you know, quote unquote reaching like for that.

282
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,680
Speaker 1: And then to your point where it's like, Okay, a

283
00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:04,440
Speaker 1: team really wants Omar Cooper and maybe they're drafting him

284
00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:06,760
Speaker 1: twenty first overall. I have no idea who's going twenty

285
00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,760
Speaker 1: first overall or what team is drafting there, but twenty

286
00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,839
Speaker 1: first overall versus you know, thirtieth overall or something like that,

287
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,240
Speaker 1: where yes, there is a tangible difference there.

288
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,319
Speaker 3: But if you're saying that they're doing.

289
00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,800
Speaker 1: That because they have a way that they want to

290
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,160
Speaker 1: deploy him and use him and they like his fit,

291
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,319
Speaker 1: that could be good for fantasy football because that means

292
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,240
Speaker 1: that they have a plan for this player. Where and

293
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,320
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that's flawless, because certainly teams draft players

294
00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:34,200
Speaker 1: thinking that they have a plan for them and then

295
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:36,120
Speaker 1: they have no idea what they're doing with them, right,

296
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,720
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I think it just goes back to

297
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,720
Speaker 1: our conversation of like being directionally right. Yeah, you know,

298
00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,240
Speaker 1: the draft capital stuff, to me is just an inherent

299
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,440
Speaker 1: evaluation of a team in a front office that's putting

300
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,280
Speaker 1: millions and millions of dollars into this process and us

301
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,680
Speaker 1: getting that for free, and I can back test it

302
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,640
Speaker 1: and say, hey, this has been relatively now.

303
00:13:58,520 --> 00:13:59,920
Speaker 3: I do think I did an entire episode.

304
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:02,000
Speaker 1: I do think that part of draft capital is a

305
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,680
Speaker 1: little bit overblown in the way that people view it

306
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,160
Speaker 1: where they're sometimes people are almost too strict with draft

307
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,800
Speaker 1: capital and the ways they view it, you know, especially

308
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,600
Speaker 1: whenever you get into like late round one versus early

309
00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:14,120
Speaker 1: round two.

310
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,280
Speaker 3: Oh, he's a round one pool. Not all round one.

311
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,560
Speaker 1: Players are the same, or you know, it's just there's

312
00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:20,240
Speaker 1: a lot of nuance to it, which is why I

313
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,680
Speaker 1: think modeling can be so impactful and helpful, because you're

314
00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,440
Speaker 1: actually able to properly weigh all these factors, or at

315
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,720
Speaker 1: least properly weigh in the minds of you know, how

316
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,520
Speaker 1: you're evaluating things and how the model's looking at things.

317
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,600
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, like there's no perfect way to

318
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:36,840
Speaker 3: do it. Similar to your.

319
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,920
Speaker 1: Teammate comment, where like I have teammates score, but I

320
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,560
Speaker 1: don't have teammates score for underclassmen because I have no clue.

321
00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:46,600
Speaker 3: Objectively, like we.

322
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:48,280
Speaker 1: Can say, Jeremiah Smith is going to be really really

323
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,240
Speaker 1: good now, he's going to be a top five draft pick,

324
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:55,080
Speaker 1: all that, right, But Jeremis, I have no clue, like, like,

325
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,720
Speaker 1: we can use him as an example, but there are

326
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,720
Speaker 1: other players, other wide receivers who aren't as obvious, and

327
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,280
Speaker 1: the majority of them aren't as obvious, which makes it

328
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,720
Speaker 1: really hard to say, oh, this was a good competition,

329
00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,360
Speaker 1: this was bad competition, because the main way that I

330
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,520
Speaker 1: use teammates score is by looking at draft capital itself.

331
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,520
Speaker 3: Right, So if a team, if a player played with

332
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:14,960
Speaker 3: a teammate.

333
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,960
Speaker 1: That had good draft capital, then I'm able to say, oh,

334
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:19,960
Speaker 1: then he played with a teammate that was that was

335
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,440
Speaker 1: pretty good overall. But you can't do that for guys

336
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,120
Speaker 1: who were you know, underclassmen and stuff, because it's just

337
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:28,640
Speaker 1: I'm sure there are ways, you know, I'm sure you

338
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,520
Speaker 1: could look at like their their current I just there's

339
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:37,240
Speaker 1: a that's a lot of nuance and work to really

340
00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,040
Speaker 1: figure that stuff out to the point where like even

341
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:44,120
Speaker 1: teammates score now doesn't get an insane amount of signal

342
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,800
Speaker 1: to begin with. So I don't want to go down

343
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:48,360
Speaker 1: that path and waste time when I could be using

344
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,360
Speaker 1: that time, you know, to to build out other things

345
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,560
Speaker 1: with the with the model and look at more predictive

346
00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:54,400
Speaker 1: data and stuff. But yeah, I mean it just goes

347
00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,440
Speaker 1: It goes back to what we were saying before that

348
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,520
Speaker 1: this is a let's just get in the right spots.

349
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, instead of that, it's a fluid process.

350
00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,920
Speaker 2: Like I mean, again, things are changing all the time,

351
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,880
Speaker 2: the league is changing, We're finding which inputs really really

352
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:10,960
Speaker 2: matter and and things of that nature. So yeah, no,

353
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:11,960
Speaker 2: it makes a ton of sense.

354
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that a lot of this for

355
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,400
Speaker 1: me is like finding the players, not as you don't

356
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,120
Speaker 1: have to nail the individual player and be like this

357
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,760
Speaker 1: is exactly what he's going to be. But there are

358
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,680
Speaker 1: ways to find these red flags that you know, make

359
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,200
Speaker 1: you avoid certain players. So with that being said, you

360
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,480
Speaker 1: mentioned that you don't see a true like alpha alpha

361
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:38,880
Speaker 1: in this class. The model would probably disagree just because

362
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:43,360
Speaker 1: Jordan Tyson's analytical profile is so good. I understand the

363
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:45,960
Speaker 1: concerns though, especially on the injury front, but I want

364
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,240
Speaker 1: to hear your concerns from from charting him, because you're

365
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,120
Speaker 1: definitely lower on This is probably our biggest point of contention,

366
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:57,240
Speaker 1: uh this year with from from a prospecting standpoint, and

367
00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,000
Speaker 1: it's it's he's probably one of the most polarizing prospects

368
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:01,960
Speaker 1: in this class in general at this point.

369
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:03,440
Speaker 3: So I want to hear what you have to say

370
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:04,280
Speaker 3: about Jordan Tyson.

371
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, Like it seems like there's a wide

372
00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:12,040
Speaker 2: variety of opinions on Tyson. Now for me, just overall,

373
00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:14,639
Speaker 2: before we start to kind of pick apart the nitty gritty,

374
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,520
Speaker 2: you know, details of him from a reception perception standpoint,

375
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:20,240
Speaker 2: I do want to say that I like him, like

376
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,280
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't dislike him, I don't hate him.

377
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,320
Speaker 2: You know, I still have him as a guy that

378
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,160
Speaker 2: you can take in the first round. You know, He's

379
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,959
Speaker 2: not Xavior leget or something. No, right, He's not like

380
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:35,240
Speaker 2: Xavier Legett or Kadarius Tony even a guy well, I mean,

381
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:39,720
Speaker 2: I think he probably falls into that kind of volatile

382
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:41,400
Speaker 2: prospect bucket, but not like.

383
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,359
Speaker 3: The oh my god, I can't believe they took that

384
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:44,240
Speaker 3: guy there, Yeah, right.

385
00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:46,920
Speaker 2: Right, like you can understand the ceiling out. Yeah, oh,

386
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,639
Speaker 2: one thousand percent. Like there's a very real path for

387
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:51,600
Speaker 2: him to be the best receiver in this class, Like

388
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,640
Speaker 2: whereas some of those guys we just talked about. Even

389
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,760
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, I was going to say even

390
00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:00,840
Speaker 2: a guy like Trailon Burks when he came out, was

391
00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,719
Speaker 2: a guy that I probably would have said, like I

392
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,400
Speaker 2: was lower on than consensus, just because I didn't see

393
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,359
Speaker 2: a path for him being like the first receiver in

394
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,399
Speaker 2: his class based on you know, the other guys in

395
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,000
Speaker 2: the class were just way better than him. In twenty

396
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,520
Speaker 2: twenty two, now, I like John Dotson in that class,

397
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,159
Speaker 2: and obviously that didn't work out, So I don't know everything.

398
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,200
Speaker 3: I mean, has had a better career than Treylon Burks,

399
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:21,920
Speaker 3: to be fair.

400
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,200
Speaker 2: Did win a super Bowl, super Bowl winner, super winning

401
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,120
Speaker 2: wide receiver. You can never take it away from Johan Dotson.

402
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,080
Speaker 2: But no, Yeah, but Burkes was a guy that I

403
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,320
Speaker 2: think needed the right type of deployment for him to

404
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,320
Speaker 2: work out, and he just absolutely objectively did not get that.

405
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,680
Speaker 2: And I think Tyson probably is in that bucket, but

406
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,320
Speaker 2: it's not quite the same. So some of the positives

407
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,840
Speaker 2: for Tyson from a reception perception standpoint, like he has

408
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:48,680
Speaker 2: the number one success rate ver his own coverage in

409
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:50,760
Speaker 2: the class of all the prospects that I started, eighty

410
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:55,120
Speaker 2: ninth percentile. He's up there with some really really top prospects.

411
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,840
Speaker 2: So since the twenty twenty one class, only Travis Hunter,

412
00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,919
Speaker 2: Garrett Wilson, the aforementioned Johan dots and didn't plan that,

413
00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,640
Speaker 2: and Drake London have finished higher from a success rate

414
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,200
Speaker 2: versus zone coverage standpoint. Obviously, that's pretty good company from

415
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,040
Speaker 2: a prospect standpoint, Like, I think that's where his route

416
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:14,560
Speaker 2: running and his fluidity is best expressed. The things that

417
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,240
Speaker 2: are difficult with him. You know, there's been like a

418
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,359
Speaker 2: weird kind of cycle of people because of the you know,

419
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,679
Speaker 2: anonymous scouts that Bob McGinn gets and tied done reports

420
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:25,159
Speaker 2: on and stuff like that, which is great work, but

421
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,399
Speaker 2: you know about like questioning his toughness or whatever. And

422
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,480
Speaker 2: I think I think we're just kind of over indexing

423
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,320
Speaker 2: on the word toughness because I think some of the

424
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,960
Speaker 2: things that he struggles with, like I don't think he's

425
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,480
Speaker 2: great playing the ball and tight coverage. He gets tackled

426
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 2: on first contact all the time. Yeah, terrible miss stacks

427
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,879
Speaker 2: for the rector. Yeah, he goes down on first contact

428
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,239
Speaker 2: all the time. And they give him a lot of

429
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:50,959
Speaker 2: like design touches stuff, which probably does influence the success

430
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,120
Speaker 2: rate versus zone coverage number to a degree, like how

431
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,240
Speaker 2: much stuff he's getting at or around the like line

432
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,560
Speaker 2: of scrimmage, but he also struggles, in my opinion, against

433
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,080
Speaker 2: press cover, especially when it's like physical combative situations. That

434
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that he's soft or he's not tough. I

435
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 2: just think from a technique and a timing standpoint, that

436
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,600
Speaker 2: does need to get better. I think like he could

437
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 2: be a little bit more combative in those ways. And

438
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,120
Speaker 2: I think from a route running standpoint, he's just got

439
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 2: a lot of like wasted needless motion. You know, he's

440
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,200
Speaker 2: got a lot of these kind of jitterbug like movements

441
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,439
Speaker 2: at the top of his route, which like, okay, that

442
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,360
Speaker 2: looks good in like a one on like a zone

443
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,520
Speaker 2: coverage situation or you know, an off coverage moment, but

444
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,840
Speaker 2: like when we're actually one on one in isolated coverage,

445
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,359
Speaker 2: you're wasting time in that situation and you end up

446
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,560
Speaker 2: more so covered than not. Like the moves become too

447
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,160
Speaker 2: predictable because they're not just decisive. Like when he's one

448
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 2: foot in the ground and goes, he can create a

449
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 2: lot of separation. I think you see that on his

450
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,360
Speaker 2: route chart on routes like posts, digs, and outs, but

451
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 2: the route shortened to the line of scrimmage, the more

452
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,440
Speaker 2: vertical route tree that's where he doesn't perform as well.

453
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 2: So I kind of think again, just from an overall

454
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,159
Speaker 2: reception perception standpoint, he probably projects best in like a

455
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 2: movement Z roll And I do worry that because he's

456
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,200
Speaker 2: sixty two and over two hundred pounds, like he could

457
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,000
Speaker 2: end up being one of those guys that gets tossed

458
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,239
Speaker 2: into the X receiver spot. I wouldn't like that as

459
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 2: much for him. I would. I would like to see

460
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,480
Speaker 2: him moved around over the across the formation as like

461
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 2: a Z and get some slot stuff too.

462
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,399
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, look, I'll say this.

463
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,920
Speaker 1: I said this before on another show, whether it was

464
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 1: on this feed or not, But I am kind of

465
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: surprised that Jordan Tyson is not the consensus wide receiver

466
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 1: one in the fantasy space because people people lean.

467
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 3: So analytically heavy, you know, in this.

468
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 1: Space, and yet he's the wide receiver three by most

469
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,239
Speaker 1: like ADPs and stuff and rookie rankings and such. But

470
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,080
Speaker 1: I'm surprised by that because you know, like his age

471
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 1: adjusted production, I don't think a wide receiver comes close

472
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 1: in this class.

473
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,960
Speaker 3: You look at his journey, you know, like his freshman.

474
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 1: Year in Colorado, he leads the team in receiving in

475
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 1: nine games before he had that crazy bad injury and

476
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 1: then obviously doesn't really play the second year. Comes back

477
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,360
Speaker 1: to third year, and that third season was the best

478
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,399
Speaker 1: analytical season in my opinion, in this entire class, Like

479
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,120
Speaker 1: the way that he performed before he went down again

480
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 1: that was the collarbone that year. And then you know,

481
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: last year, even his production was really strong until that

482
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 1: hamstring injury happened, and then and then things started to

483
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 1: kind of taper off a little bit. But like his

484
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,720
Speaker 1: breakout score, which is, you know, my adjusted receiving yards

485
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 1: per team pass attemph metric ninety ninth percentile.

486
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's absurd, right, His his career yards.

487
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: Per out run eighty ninth percentile, first downs per route

488
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,399
Speaker 1: run ninety third percentile. That's career his best season in

489
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 1: yards per tem pass atten ninety fourth percentile. Like you know,

490
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 1: out wide yards per out run eighty fifth percentile. Like like,

491
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: there's just so many good marks with Tyson that I

492
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:54,919
Speaker 1: I'm going to have a hard time not having him

493
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 1: as my wide receiver one post draft, Like I talked

494
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: about this on a mailbag show.

495
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 3: Like even if he goes like early round two I

496
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 3: don't think is going to happen. I think he's going

497
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:02,400
Speaker 3: to be around one guy.

498
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 1: The model it's treating him similarly, the model is as

499
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 1: it treated Luther Burden last year. Now, I think Burden

500
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 1: obviously has hit a pretty good outcome so far, but

501
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: also found the right spot for that kind of thing

502
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 1: to happen, and so I have to I have to

503
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 1: keep that in mind with a player like Tyson. You

504
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,400
Speaker 1: know that that I do think that, you know, there's

505
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: enough negativity out there that this is probably not a

506
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,439
Speaker 1: alpha alpha type situation where it's just so obvious that

507
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 1: we got to, you know, get this guy.

508
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 3: But there's obviously the injury stuff too.

509
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: I think the injury stuff is the reason why people

510
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:38,880
Speaker 1: are questioning toughness too.

511
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 3: Do you think that, oh yeah, you know.

512
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 2: I guess, but like I mean, he played through injuries,

513
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,919
Speaker 2: yeah yeah, yeah, which, by the way, I think he

514
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,239
Speaker 2: was worse off for it. I think I mentioned this

515
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 2: to you like a month ago or so, that he's

516
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 2: one of the rare guys where I had to chart

517
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 2: multiple seasons because like the twenty twenty five season was

518
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 2: so injury ruined. And again it's like our some of

519
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 2: the you know what games can you get and stuff

520
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 2: like that, that where he's not available and everything of that.

521
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 2: So like, I think he was better in twenty twenty

522
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 2: four than he was in twenty twenty five, like the player,

523
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 2: and now from a catch point standpoint, he was probably

524
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 2: worse in twenty four than he was in twenty five.

525
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 2: But I think you can kind of take that two

526
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 2: different ways. In one way, it's like, oh, well, yeah,

527
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 2: when he's not playing through hamstring injury, which he was,

528
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 2: he's really really good. The other way is is like,

529
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 2: is this already a guy that's like wearing down physically

530
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 2: because he's had so many injuries, which I do kind

531
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: of worry about. But yeah, there's a lot of positive

532
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 2: with Tyson, and I think there's a real chance he

533
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 2: could be the first receiver, like when we talk about

534
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 2: fantasy production his first three years, especially because once we

535
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 2: like once we get to Carnal Tait, it's almost a

536
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,719
Speaker 2: weird way where we'll talk about we'll talk about when

537
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 2: we get to Tate, but like.

538
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, just let's just talk about Tate now, talk about

539
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: talk about the differences here.

540
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 2: So I think the interesting like for an NFL prospecting standpoint,

541
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 2: I think it's so easy to just say Carnel Tate's

542
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,959
Speaker 2: the best receiver in this class because he fits all

543
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 2: thirty two offenses, And like, everybody needs a player like

544
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 2: Carnel Tate every offense. I don't care what you're doing,

545
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,120
Speaker 2: whether you're one of these heavy condensed offenses or you're

546
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,959
Speaker 2: more of a spread out attack. Everybody needs and everybody

547
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 2: needs a wide receiver who can line up on the

548
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 2: perimeter and run the vertical route tree and beat man coverage.

549
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 2: And that is what Carnel Tate does exceptionally well. Seventh

550
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 2: best success rate versus man coverage. It's the twenty twenty

551
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 2: one class. Like this guy gets open on all the

552
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 2: big boy routes. There's no schemed up Mickey Mouse stuff underneath.

553
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 2: Like he's running real deal routes and he catches absolutely everything.

554
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 2: He's got a wide catch radius. He is like the

555
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 2: most esthetically pleasing player to watch catch the football I

556
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 2: can remember over the last few years with just everything

557
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 2: that he does from an attack standpoint, from a technique standpoint,

558
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 2: and yeah, like that's a really clean evaluation. Now from

559
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 2: a fantasy standpoint, we have seen some of these more

560
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 2: and I don't know if Tate's gonna end up being

561
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 2: one of these guys, but we've seen the guys who

562
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 2: have been more of the on ball perimeter receivers kind

563
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 2: of have a real hit and miss production profile based

564
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,239
Speaker 2: on the quarterback that they're playing with, just because some

565
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 2: of those routes are designed to open things up for

566
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 2: other players and some of the more like layup targets

567
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 2: go to other players. So Tate could be a guy

568
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 2: who I mean it goes like to the Chiefs and

569
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 2: nine or something like, Yeah, that's perfect. That's the exact

570
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 2: type of receiver that they need, but it's also the

571
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 2: exact type of receiver they never pursue. So I don't

572
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 2: even know if I want to imagine that that's going

573
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 2: to happen, but like, yeah, that would be great, But

574
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 2: what if he goes to another spot where he's, you know,

575
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 2: the on ball perimeter receiver the quarterback who can't really

576
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 2: access those throws, if that makes sense. So yeah, I

577
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: do think there's a real chance where it's like, Okay,

578
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 2: going into the draft, he's going to be not in

579
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,199
Speaker 2: a tier of his own, but I think just comfortably

580
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 2: my wide receiver one because the evaluation is so clean

581
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 2: to all thirty two teams whatever. But coming out of

582
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 2: the draft, there's a real chance that it could be

583
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 2: tighter between him and several of the other guys behind him,

584
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 2: Tyson included.

585
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: Couldn't you argue that that, I mean that he experienced

586
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 1: that in college that like, you know, like the the

587
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 1: the the quarterback matching, the the like leaving production on

588
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: the field but not his fault, you know that that

589
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, And like that's part of the the

590
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: part of the question I have with Tate is, of course,

591
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: like we have this now backing of all these great

592
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: Ohio state wide receivers, to me analytically, like he has

593
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: the worst breakout score of the guys who have come

594
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: out recently.

595
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 3: Like even Abuka had a little bit better of a

596
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 3: breakout score than Carnel Tate did.

597
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,479
Speaker 1: And and the model likes Abuka, Like, you know, if

598
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,239
Speaker 1: they were to have the same draft capital, it's say,

599
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: it's gonna like Tate a little bit more just because

600
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 1: the draft capital is probably gonna be better. But but

601
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: it does like him the least of those Ohio state

602
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 1: wide receivers.

603
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 3: That being said, there's some really really good wide receivers

604
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 3: that have come out so like this, this is amongst

605
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 3: really good players, like I like Carnel Tate.

606
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: My thing is is is what you said that scares

607
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 1: me is is you know, like this type of wide

608
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: receiver fits anywhere. But I do wonder you like even

609
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: in college, Like his best season in target share is

610
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 1: twenty two percent. That's a thirtyieth percentile number among wide

611
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: receivers in the Zapmodel database. Now you can say, oh,

612
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: he had competition, et cetera, et cetera. I mean the

613
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 1: other Ohio State guys had competition too, and they were

614
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: putting together better target share numbers than that. And so

615
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: my I said this to Waldman basically, like could this

616
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: just be a situation where he's better in real football

617
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: than fantasy? Because I look at him and contrast him

618
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: to McKay lemon, and I think m kay Lemon really

619
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 1: looks like the type of player that can just dominate

620
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 1: and just get so much volume in fantasy football that

621
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: he could just dominate and scam in PPR and be good. Obviously,

622
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: you know, I'm obviously we're gonna think about Anamena ros

623
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: Saint Brown when we're talking about this, like be a

624
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: good wide receiver, but in the right spot, he could

625
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: absolutely dominate.

626
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 3: Is that what you're seeing with him with reception perception?

627
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that Tait has the higher like NFL

628
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 2: floor because again some of these application things, But I

629
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: think Lemon has a higher production and probably a higher

630
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: fantasy ceiling if he goes to the right spot. And

631
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 2: also I think it's funny with the Aman ross Saint

632
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 2: Brown comp like people talk about aman Rossaint Brown as

633
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: if he hasn't improved it all since like the back

634
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 2: of his rookie year. It's so stupid, like, yeah, Amon

635
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 2: Rad was like a slot merchant, you know, early on

636
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 2: in his career. He's not. He hasn't been that guy

637
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,959
Speaker 2: for probably at least two maybe two and a half

638
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 2: years now at this point. So it's like when we're

639
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 2: when we're comparing, and I look, I think mackay Lemon

640
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 2: compared like he compares himself to aman Rossaint Brown. So

641
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 2: it's not like we're we're doing anything unfair. He's bringing

642
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: that on to himself. I also think, like my pet

643
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 2: theory is that he did the whole like weird head

644
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 2: tilting thing at the combined interview because he was like

645
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 2: doing a weird Amon ra Saint Brown cosplay, like how

646
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 2: he's like a very intense guy, very serious. He was

647
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 2: trying to do that, and it's just it's like Dylan

648
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 2: Royola when he was doing the Patrick Mahomes comparison, Like

649
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 2: the impression. It's just like this is kind of a

650
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 2: weird funhouse mirror, like a washed up Elvis version of

651
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 2: like an impersonator. That's what my that's my pet theory

652
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 2: on that. Nobody cares anyway. But but for Lemon, it's like, weeah,

653
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 2: where are we comparing him on the Alan Ross Saint

654
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 2: Brown like career arc But yeah, I mean I think

655
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 2: if he goes to a system that you know he

656
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: is either a spread out attack like I think about

657
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 2: him in the Saints where they used a ton of

658
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 2: three plus receiver sets and they motioned these guys around

659
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 2: so that everybody gets some slot reps. O Lave got

660
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 2: slot reps last year when Shahid was on the field,

661
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 2: he got slot reps de Von Valley at the end

662
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 2: of the season, he got reps out of the slot

663
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 2: as a bigger player. Juan Johnson even was like a

664
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 2: true slot at times for this team. I think that

665
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:34,959
Speaker 2: would be a good fit for him. Or if it's

666
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 2: a team that really condenses things and kind of blurs

667
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 2: the lines between like a slot and outside receiver, like

668
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 2: which is what the uh Seahawks did with Jackson Smith

669
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 2: and Jiggro last year. Like Jaya Senath thought, I think

670
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 2: Jayson's a better prospect than Makaile Lemon, but like they

671
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 2: both show some of the same abilities to win against

672
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 2: man coverage in tighter spaces. So yeah, if Lemon goes

673
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 2: to the right spot, he can absolutely end up being

674
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 2: like the Dynasty wide receiver one post draft. It's just

675
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 2: obviously going to depend on that spot.

676
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: I also think that the slot talk with him, we

677
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: probably should just I want to ask you about this

678
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: a little bit because I've kind of grown tired of

679
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: like the binary way that people are looking at slot

680
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: versus non slot, where it's like, like, is this guy

681
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: a slot guy? Okay, Like I say we say this

682
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: every year, I feel like on the show, But like

683
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: when we say a player is a slot guy, he's

684
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: not playing one hundred he's not running a hundred percent

685
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: of his routes out of the slot, and he's not

686
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: like like the purest slot players in the league. Some

687
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: of them, sure when they have a limited route share

688
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: and stuff. They're playing like ninety ninety five percent. Sure,

689
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: But like when you think of like slot guy in

690
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: the NFL, some people will go to like Keenan Allen

691
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: over the last decade, where like he played inside out

692
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: guys like he's still Yeah, it's like a fifty to

693
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: fifty type thing. It's just that in those scenarios where

694
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: you had a formation and personality you were able to

695
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: throw a guy in the slot, he was the one

696
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: that was playing. See he Lamb plays a lot in

697
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: the slot, right Like this is no one's gonna call

698
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: him a slot receiver. So I understand that McKay lemon

699
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: is is. I mean, I'm certainly not compying him to

700
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: CD Lamb. They're nothing alike. But uh, with McKay lemon, yes,

701
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: he had a high slot rate in college, but at

702
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: the same time it was an eighty eighth percentile rate,

703
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: seventy six percent slot rate. But to me, when you

704
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: look at players in the first round that have had

705
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: high slot rates historically Jalen Wattle, Jackson Smith and Jig

706
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: but they've they've panned out fine and they've been a

707
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: mecha BUCA.

708
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 3: People thought where it was only going to be.

709
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: Slot too right where like like again, I mean, I

710
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,239
Speaker 1: think the Buccaneers are just they do things oddly with

711
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: when it comes to a wide receiver alignment. You know,

712
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: they drafted Jalen McMillan and threw him on the outside.

713
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: They draft a mecha Buka and throw them. I mean,

714
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: they're they're thriving, doing fine, so like I can't really

715
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: fault them, but well.

716
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 2: I was gonna say they're one of those teams that

717
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 2: really blurs the line exactly what's a slot and what's

718
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 2: not exactly And I mean, listen, I've I've been pretty

719
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 2: strict but like not changing like my charting process, because

720
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 2: I want to be able to compare across classes and

721
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 2: cross years in the NFL, like I've been doing this

722
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: since twenty fourteen. Like I want that process to be

723
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 2: pretty consistent that we can compare historically and really know

724
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 2: what things are telling us. The one thing I've ever had,

725
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 2: like a real existential crisis about changing is alignment, especially

726
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 2: with how teams are moving guys around at the snap

727
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 2: right now. The Bucks are a perfect example. If you

728
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 2: watch the Bucks the last couple of years, Mike Evans

729
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 2: will be the condensed like he'll be condensed closer to

730
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 2: the offensive line or like the tackle or what tight

731
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 2: end or whatever. Then you know your ex receiver typically

732
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 2: was but he's outside on the ball. But then you've

733
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 2: got Jalen McGowan like running at the snap and he's

734
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 2: like right here next to him, to the point that

735
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 2: then when McMillan breaks like he's breaking on the outside

736
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 2: breaking route where Mike Mike Evans is breaking inside, it's like, Okay,

737
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 2: was that really an outside receiver rep? I mean, essentially, yes,

738
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 2: at the snap of the ball, he is outside on

739
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 2: the ball, but like teams are doing that now to

740
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 2: blur these lines anyways, which I do think specifically with Lemon,

741
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 2: he's the type of guy. And I think JSN was

742
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 2: this type of guy too, because and Abuka was a

743
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 2: little bit less of a man beater than JSN and

744
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 2: Makayle Lemon was when they were entering the league. But

745
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 2: these guys showed the ability to win against man coverage

746
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 2: in ways is like, Okay, this guy can survive on

747
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 2: the field and be an outside receiver in those sort

748
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 2: of situations. I kind of think the analysis with Lemon

749
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 2: in particular has been a little bit antiquated. Like, yes,

750
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 2: that's the where I think we're both coming down here,

751
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 2: is that like, oh, he's a slot based player, you

752
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 2: can't take it. There's so many good slot based players

753
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 2: that are smoking the league right now from a production standpoint,

754
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 2: And I mean you could say, like, yeah, these guys

755
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 2: are easier to find. I mean, there's gonna be guys

756
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 2: available in this draft. There are like plenty, you know,

757
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 2: credible X receiver candidates. It just depends the development path.

758
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean for what it's worth. And I know

759
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 1: I mentioned that he had a really high slot rate,

760
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 1: which he did, and so these numbers can be skewed

761
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 1: by big plays. But he had the highest out wide

762
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: yards baraut run rate in this clab ninety eighth percentile,

763
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: which is crazy when when you consider the way that

764
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:06,959
Speaker 1: people are sort of framing him, like, oh, you can't

765
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: take a slot How many times over the last five

766
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: years have we heard you can't take a slot wide

767
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: receiver in the first round, and then that wide receiver

768
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: ends up being very, very productive in the NFL.

769
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 3: I mean it seems like it's been a pretty consistent theme.

770
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 2: Now.

771
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: If his if his draft capital were to fall to

772
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,919
Speaker 1: like mid round two and into round three, that would

773
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:24,280
Speaker 1: be different.

774
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 3: It's not. It's just not gonna happen.

775
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 1: Like he's going to more than likely be like a

776
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: potentially like a mid first round pick, like the other

777
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: team that whenever we were talking about the Bucks, the other

778
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,479
Speaker 1: team like that is like the Rams, right, Like, yeah,

779
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: if LA gets McKay lemon, you should feel unbelievably confident

780
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: they're going to know how to deploy mckaye lemon.

781
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 3: You know, like that that that match is there. So yeah.

782
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: I think what's really cool though about these wide receivers

783
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 1: is that each one is just really different in what

784
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: a team could do with them. And that even extends

785
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: to Casey Concepcion, who I know, you like a good bit.

786
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:57,879
Speaker 3: I like a good bit.

787
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 1: I like more than the way that other analytically minded

788
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: analysts are talking about him on Twitter and on X

789
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: But talk to me about conceptsion and why you like.

790
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: Him so much?

791
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean this is like my god, this year,

792
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 3: I love this player.

793
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 2: He's the best separator in the class, easily a ninety

794
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 2: second percentile success rate verse man eighty seven percentile success

795
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,479
Speaker 2: rate versus press at just about six foot one hundred

796
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 2: and ninety six pounds, like very much not at risk

797
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,479
Speaker 2: in my opinion of being like a Jayden Reid type,

798
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,479
Speaker 2: and like I love Jayden Reid, and I think he's

799
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 2: of this access of player, but obviously at his size

800
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 2: and with his skill set, he's never quite been able

801
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 2: to be like a full snapshare type of player. I

802
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 2: think Conceptsion is much more in the bucket of someone

803
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 2: who can really win against pressman coverage, and you see

804
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 2: him do it against great corners in college football too.

805
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 2: He's definitely somebody that you have to talk about the drops.

806
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:51,839
Speaker 2: You also have to talk about the quarterback play, which

807
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 2: was very up and down for the for the Texas

808
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 2: A and M program last year. Also sharing the field

809
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 2: with a really good player. I mentioned you said you

810
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 2: couldn't do like the underclassman type stuff, but I understand

811
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: the craver the other wide receivers really good there too.

812
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 2: But yeah, Casey concepttion On just on from a separation standpoint,

813
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 2: from a route by route standpoint, he's he's such a

814
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 2: good separator and a good route runner. Like I think

815
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 2: there are times last year talking about Travis Hunter where

816
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 2: it's like he was a great separator, but probably didn't

817
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 2: have like the nuances down of like route running just yet.

818
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 2: I think Casey, even though he was like a you know,

819
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 2: forty carry player in his first year in gallege football,

820
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 2: very much has like the nuances of the position down. Obviously, again,

821
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 2: you have to talk about the drops and the way

822
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 2: he kind of has a weird way of attacking the

823
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 2: football at the catch point. He kind of claps at it.

824
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 2: He's also got bad habits of like losing focus before

825
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 2: he transitions to a run after catch player. He'll leave

826
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,240
Speaker 2: the feats, leave his feet sometimes to make catches, which

827
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 2: sometimes you get ask like is he not super confident

828
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 2: in his hands? Is he thinking about it before? Again,

829
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 2: he tries to secure the catches because he knows he

830
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 2: has a drop problem. That's that's just you know, kind

831
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 2: of the deal with a player like this. But I

832
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 2: can't really remember too many players JJ that like checked

833
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 2: every other box but they dropped the football and like

834
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 2: that ruined their careers. Usually people who are like, oh,

835
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 2: he dropped a lot of he dropped a lot of passes,

836
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 2: like he's gonna fallow the league because they usually follow

837
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 2: the lead because they actually couldn't do anything else.

838
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, well, my my favorite thing too, not only

839
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: with with drops. Is it annoying when people only cite

840
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: raw drops because obviously players who are being targeted more

841
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: are going to drop the ball more. But also when

842
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: you see like bar grafts and stuff and charts that

843
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 1: that show like like to scal like like.

844
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,240
Speaker 3: He might only drop four more passes across the season.

845
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 3: I know.

846
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's it's like we're talking much. There's not that

847
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 2: many plays that we're talking about here.

848
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: There's so much variance to that kind of number that

849
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: I just don't I literally, like you, I don't think

850
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 1: there's a single reference of like drops or drop rate

851
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: in the prospect guide because it's just not.

852
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 3: Going to carry enough weight.

853
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 1: I mean to me, if it does carry weight, it's

854
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: probably gonna be projected in draft or like reflected in

855
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 1: draft capital. Yeah, you know, like if a team's like, oh,

856
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 1: I don't want to get him because he drops the

857
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: ball too much, and that's the tiebreaker.

858
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, like I I agree with this.

859
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 2: That's such a good point that you brought that up,

860
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 2: because like, yeah, there are guys who have just no

861
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 2: ball skills and like they're I think it's funny we

862
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 2: don't want to just be like slaves or to draft

863
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,879
Speaker 2: capital or whatever. But you are right that, like if

864
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 2: a guy just absolutely he can't. Now Quintin Johnson is

865
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 2: maybe the exception of this. So like maybe maybe I'm

866
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 2: wrong about this, but if we're talking about like top

867
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 2: twenty type projected draft capital, the guy probably doesn't have

868
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 2: like true ball skill issues. And same thing with separation,

869
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 2: Like this is something comes up every single year. Drake Clundon,

870
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 2: can he separate? We're not talking about a top ten

871
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 2: pick if he if he can't separate, like yeah, right

872
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 2: Tenoro McMillan last year, can he say if he couldn't

873
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 2: separate at all, he wouldn't be going in the first round,

874
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 2: And you are just like put that to bed.

875
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean at least at least again like probability wise,

876
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 1: right because obviously you know a team could just be

877
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: over drafted and.

878
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 3: Just be wrong. But yeah, it's so similar to the

879
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 3: slot stuff we were just talking about.

880
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: It's like, dude, if a team is gonna draft a

881
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 1: Kai Lemon in the top fifteen, they're not gonna use

882
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: them in a.

883
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 3: Jaden Reid role. Yeah, Josh something that, Yeah, like that's absurd.

884
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: And if they are, it's just they're a horribly run

885
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 1: franchise and they're gonna be picking high again the next year.

886
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, like I, I just I don't

887
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: want to to focus too heavily when it comes to

888
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: stuff like drops or whatever that just don't have that

889
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 1: much predictive value.

890
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 2: You know.

891
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 1: I'm sure at the extremes you might be able to

892
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: find something, but I just it's it's just not necessary

893
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 1: in my opinion. The thing that gets me with Concepcion

894
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 1: you mentioned his rushing production. That's something that the model

895
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: cares about because it it adds this this talent avow

896
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: that you know, teams are trying to get this player

897
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,439
Speaker 1: of the ball because he's probably really dynamic with the ball,

898
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: and so that's really cool and good. But also again,

899
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: he's an early declare wide receiver who is not going

900
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: to compile the same way as a player who's played

901
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: four or five years in college.

902
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 3: And it's not an apples to apples thing.

903
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people see, you know, yards

904
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: per out run numbers being thrown around Twitter, whether it's

905
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: career yards per out run or best season yards per

906
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: out run, and what's missing with that is the context

907
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: of when that yards per out run number happened. You know,

908
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,839
Speaker 1: if a player ran one hundred routes his first three

909
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 1: years and then ran four hundred his final year and

910
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: he dominated in yards per out run, it's likely weighed

911
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: towards that four hundred route run season, and that's when

912
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: he's more experienced and he's you know, an upperclassman, and

913
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: he's not casey Conceptsion playing as a freshman in NC

914
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: State and playing the role that he played, or you know.

915
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: The other thing too, is that there's plenty of context

916
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,760
Speaker 1: here where he transfers, plays way more on the outside

917
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: of A and M, and he thrives. He had his

918
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,760
Speaker 1: best season in yards per out run, and his perimeter

919
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: yards per out run in his career was better than

920
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:52,760
Speaker 1: a slot yards per out run.

921
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 3: There's a lot to like here. His breakout scores solid

922
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 3: seventy eighth percentile.

923
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: I think Inceptcion is like, I mean, I don't have

924
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: him in the same tier as the other three. I

925
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: know you you would put him in the like at

926
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 1: least up there with like Tyson. And you have him

927
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: with like Tyson, and I.

928
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 2: Have wide receiver too, yeah, right.

929
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 1: So so so like like, I don't have him in

930
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: the with the big three, but it's mind blowing to

931
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 1: me to put him in the same bucket as some

932
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: of the other guys we're about to talk about, because

933
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: I think he's kind of like in his tier, in

934
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: a tier of his own right now, where the other

935
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 1: three just because Tyson again looks really good analytically, I

936
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 1: think Tate's gonna get the draft capital and looks pretty strong. Uh.

937
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 1: And then Makai Lemon, like we just talked about, has

938
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: like such a high ceiling in the right spot.

939
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,240
Speaker 3: And then there's Conceptsione, who I just think.

940
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: Is a way better pro no way better, but a

941
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 1: relatively better prospect than the other guys here. And one

942
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 1: of the other guys that's getting a lot of hype

943
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 1: right now is Omar Cooper, And you know, it's.

944
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 3: An interesting profile.

945
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: But I'm really curious to hear your thoughts on on

946
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: Cooper and his current rise because literally, like a month

947
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 1: and a half ago, a month ago, he was a

948
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 1: firmly like a second round pick, and now he's firmly

949
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: a first.

950
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think his rise is like a three pronged

951
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,240
Speaker 2: sort of thing here. One, he was a late addition

952
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 2: to the draft class, Like he was very much the

953
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 2: one of the last players to declare in the entire class,

954
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:20,399
Speaker 2: obviously because of the National Championship, and I like sort

955
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 2: of say say this, he was pretty like on the

956
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 2: fence about whether he was going to come out or

957
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 2: not from the conversation that I had with him, and

958
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 2: then he got let's just say, a really good favorable

959
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 2: comparison from one particular team to a player that they

960
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 2: have that's really really good, and then he's like, Okay,

961
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 2: should probably under the draft anyway, So like you're the

962
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 2: two point zero version of this player. So then he

963
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 2: would have had decided to declare for the draft, So

964
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 2: he was a late addition to the class in that way. Two,

965
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 2: I think his rise also speaks to what we were

966
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 2: talking about earlier, where it's not that strong of a

967
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 2: class overall, and I think people like, all right, well,

968
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 2: we got to find like twenty first round grades. He's

969
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 2: someone that has kind of become one of those final

970
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 2: first round grades for people. Because that leads to the

971
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 2: third point, like he is a really easy player to

972
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 2: look at and say, I know exactly how this is

973
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 2: going to help my NFL offense because he's such a

974
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 2: he's a very easy player to watch and understand, like, okay,

975
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,959
Speaker 2: this is the role he's bare minimum going to play

976
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 2: for us because he is an exceptional player with the

977
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 2: football in his hands, like he is, he's just awesome

978
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:23,359
Speaker 2: as a Hey, I'm going to spit the ball out

979
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 2: to this guy and he's going to give me plays

980
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 2: in space. To that point, I mentioned, I chart in

981
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 2: space attempts. He was in space on fifty three percent

982
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 2: of his sample catches, which is like, you're in the

983
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 2: open field, you have the chance to break a tackle.

984
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 2: He went down on first contact on thirty four point

985
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 2: eight percent of those in space attempts. He broke multiple

986
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 2: tackles on thirty eight four point eight percent. So the

987
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 2: rate of plays in which he is going down on

988
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,760
Speaker 2: first contact and breaking two tackles in the open field,

989
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 2: it's very rare that those are the same. Okay, So like, yeah,

990
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 2: he's a he's a very very good player at the

991
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 2: ball in his hands. So I think that's part of

992
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 2: why the rise has happened because bare Minimum you can say,

993
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:57,879
Speaker 2: all right, I can I can spit the football out

994
00:44:57,920 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 2: to this guy and he can give me yards after

995
00:44:59,280 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 2: catch plays.

996
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: And I think teams probably value that these days, oh

997
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 1: the in particular these days where defenses are built the

998
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 1: way that they're built and teams are running the ball

999
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,399
Speaker 1: a little bit more. You know, there's heavier personnel and

1000
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,879
Speaker 1: they have a player who's versatile like this to take

1001
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: advantage of that makes a lot of sense. I mean,

1002
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: his avoided tackles per reception across his career ninety seven percentile.

1003
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 1: You know, one of his one of his analytical comps

1004
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 1: was Deebo Samuel in the Prospect Guide.

1005
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 3: But I know, I know, he's twenty pounds later. I

1006
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 3: get it, guys, I I that's.

1007
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 2: Not the two point zero version of the players that just.

1008
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: The other his His number one, though, is Rashi Rice,

1009
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 1: which was the one that you and I had talked about.

1010
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: I didn't really love Rashi Rice coming out, to be

1011
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: fair like, I didn't think he was like that fantastic

1012
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:44,280
Speaker 1: of a prospect.

1013
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 3: That was a miss for me.

1014
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, there, I hated him as a prospect.

1015
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 2: He's like the third lowest player I've ranked in the

1016
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 2: Stacked rankings. And again, I just did a video for

1017
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 2: this on my YouTube channel where I went over my

1018
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 2: five biggest misses and that was one that I talked about,

1019
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 2: so I've already propped really made fun of myself for that.

1020
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean I certainly didn't like love Orgie Rice,

1021
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: although there is a YouTube short out there on someone's

1022
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 1: channel where it was like pre draft thing and I

1023
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: was like hyping him up as like a late round

1024
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: dart and anymore, there you go, they started rising.

1025
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 3: So I'm just gonna point people to that video.

1026
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,879
Speaker 2: Just point people to that. And Rice is tough too,

1027
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 2: because he like played as a outside one side of

1028
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:24,240
Speaker 2: the field.

1029
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 3: Yes, it's hard.

1030
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 2: It's a vertical X receiver running nines and curls and

1031
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 2: like that is the complete antithesis of what he does. Yeah,

1032
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 2: yea fell And to that point though, like if yeah

1033
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 2: for she sorry, like I'm not saying that this to

1034
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,959
Speaker 2: make my draft grade look better, which was a huge

1035
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,760
Speaker 2: miss and is a you know, black mark on my record,

1036
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 2: but like if she Rice can do that, like Omark

1037
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 2: Cooper can do that.

1038
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,879
Speaker 1: Come yeah yeah yeah, but yeah, I mean, like his

1039
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: his breakout score fifty fifth percentile not terrible, career arts

1040
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: per out run seventy nine percentile first downs per out

1041
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: run is really strong.

1042
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,720
Speaker 3: He looks good and like right now.

1043
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 1: If you guys have the Prospect Guide, he had thirty

1044
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 1: fourth overall draft capital for that Like, there's a very real.

1045
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 3: Chance that he ends up.

1046
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: I know I mentioned Concepcion being like comfortably in that tier,

1047
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: but technically there's a chance that Omar Cooper could jump

1048
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: him if draft capital goes a certain way.

1049
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:15,839
Speaker 3: I don't know if I'll rank him that way.

1050
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: I'll see what landing spot looks like, all that kind

1051
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: of stuff, But I like Cooper overall. I think that

1052
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 1: he's he's got, you know, the right skill set for

1053
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 1: today's game. Denzel Boston another really interesting prospect. Again, I

1054
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 1: feel like every single guy we're talking about is like

1055
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 1: a completely different type of wide receiver.

1056
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 3: It's really it's crazy.

1057
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,359
Speaker 1: But I gotta ask you, do you think that he

1058
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:42,280
Speaker 1: is closer to a Jayden Higgins, who admittedly analytically looks

1059
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: very much alike, or a Mike Evans, who analytically is

1060
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 1: a stud obviously, or is it like Cortland Sutton, Like

1061
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: where are you at with Denzel Boston?

1062
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think if we're talking about families of wide receivers,

1063
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 2: like Mike Evans is probably like the family of receivers

1064
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 2: of Denzel Boston long too. Mike Evans is probably like

1065
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 2: the peak of that.

1066
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 3: He's the mom of the family.

1067
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, mom, dad, whatever. I'm not gonna get into that.

1068
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 1: Where you say mom, they're the most important part of

1069
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: the family. So we'll say we'll say moms.

1070
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 2: I don't have a family. So I'm gonna let you

1071
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 2: take the reins on that one. He's either way, he's

1072
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,839
Speaker 2: at the head of the table. Yeahm whoever said head

1073
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 2: at the table, I'm.

1074
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 1: Gonna start calling Mike Evans mom on the show moving forward,

1075
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 1: we should start calling your wife, Mike Evans.

1076
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 2: See how that'll go real, Well, what's our what's our

1077
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 2: arm length? I mean Mike Evans got those long arms.

1078
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 2: Definitely not that Yeah, yeah, Mike Evans probably the head

1079
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 2: of that table there, the head of that arc type

1080
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 2: pretty much untouched. But I don't think there ever be

1081
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 2: another Mike Evans, although like there are some bud light

1082
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 2: Mike Evans moments in Denzel Boston's game. But then I

1083
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 2: would say probably like Drake London is maybe the most

1084
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 2: achievable like top of this arc type. Then I think

1085
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 2: Tedoroll McMillan is in this arc type. I think like

1086
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 2: Michael Pittman and Courtland Sutton are in this arc type,

1087
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 2: and then yeah, Jaden Higgins at least to me, just

1088
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 2: base on what we've seen so far, would be like

1089
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,919
Speaker 2: the bottom end of that range of outcomes. I think

1090
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,720
Speaker 2: Boston is, you know, definitely not Drake London Deffron, definitely

1091
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 2: not Teroro McMillan, but probably like in that next step

1092
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 2: down of like yeah, Courtland Sutton, Michael Pittman where they

1093
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,399
Speaker 2: do some of their best work breaking over the middle

1094
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 2: of the field, they can certainly separate. I think Pittman

1095
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 2: and Sutton are good NFL players, and I think like

1096
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 2: Denzel Boston could probably be a good NFL player. They're like,

1097
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 2: maybe you could get away with him being your number

1098
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 2: one receiver, but you probably at best want him to be, like,

1099
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 2: you're really really good number two.

1100
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, And he's one of those guys from an analytical

1101
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: perspective where I want to give him a little grace

1102
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: because he played with legit NFL talent, you know, Washington,

1103
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 1: and so you know, I wouldn't say that I love him,

1104
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,760
Speaker 1: but I don't. I'm not like completely off of Boston.

1105
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: I just I like the other five that we talked

1106
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: about more. I'll say that are you Are you Boston

1107
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: over Cooper or Cooper over Boston right now?

1108
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 2: God, that's so tough to say, just because yeah, there's

1109
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 2: completely differ. Yeah, I feel like is gonna be helpful

1110
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 2: for that kind of Yeah, I think I like I

1111
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 2: think I like Cooper better, especially for today's game. Yeah,

1112
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 2: And I mentioned, like I talked about the yards after

1113
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 2: catch stuff for Cooper, Like there's a lot of real

1114
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 2: receiver in his game too, especially when he runs like

1115
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 2: outbreaking routes against man coverage. So yeah, that he's not

1116
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 2: just some gadget receiver. I think he's similar to like

1117
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 2: Luther Burden last year, and some of the routes that

1118
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 2: they're best deployed on, they're just not like completely stylistically similar,

1119
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 2: but kind of how you'd use them I think is similar. Yeah.

1120
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: All right, now we're moving into more like round two

1121
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: or like solidified round two. Chris Bell, who you know,

1122
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 1: has this ACL that he's dealing with, so who knows

1123
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 1: how much he'll be able to play your one. But

1124
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 1: as a talent and what you saw, I mean, look,

1125
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: we've we've seen the AJ Brown comps thrown out there.

1126
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 1: We've seen some people really really like Chris Bell, But

1127
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: where where do you have them?

1128
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 2: Oh? Man, Chris Bell is like the most boom bust

1129
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 2: player in the class if we're talking about like which

1130
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,479
Speaker 2: family of receivers as he belonged to. James co asked

1131
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 2: me on the show, well, do you think he's aj

1132
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 2: Brown or do you think he's like Xavier Leaguette, Trailon Buroks,

1133
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 2: Jonathan Mingo. I'm like, can I say somewhere in the

1134
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 2: middle of like these this cavernous.

1135
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 3: Range of outcomes you just gave me?

1136
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, like top five receiver in the league, or

1137
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 2: guys who you know are probably flame outs. Obviously, I

1138
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 2: don't totally know the story of Lagett just yet, but

1139
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 2: I think we know where that's going. I think that

1140
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 2: Bell is better than the Legets and the Mingoes but him,

1141
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 2: and this is true of Chris Brasel too, but I

1142
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 2: do like Bell better than Chris Brasel. They're very obvious

1143
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 2: blends of appealing upside and red flags. For Chris Bell,

1144
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 2: I think you do see real deal reps of him

1145
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 2: beating press coverage and winning on the vertical stem. And

1146
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:50,800
Speaker 2: if you're going to be like an outside X receiver,

1147
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 2: which I think Bell could be you kind of have to.

1148
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with talking about like Alec Pierce in this

1149
00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 2: year's draft class. I know that Pierce the guy that

1150
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 2: didn't produce in his first three years and all that stuff,

1151
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 2: but he was on the field for his first three

1152
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,439
Speaker 2: years and was given the time and grace to grow

1153
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 2: and develop on the jobs to the point that like

1154
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 2: four in his fourth year, he just was a more well,

1155
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 2: he was always I think a little bit underrated as

1156
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 2: both the prospect and early in his career is like

1157
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 2: not a great player, but a functional X receiver who

1158
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 2: could be sacrificial but also beat pressman coverage on like

1159
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 2: three routes. And by the time then we get to

1160
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 2: this year, he's winning on five routes and six, you

1161
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 2: know six, stuff like that. So he was allowed that timing,

1162
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,720
Speaker 2: but it was also because he could credibly beat pressman

1163
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 2: coverage on at least three routes and like function in

1164
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 2: his role. And I think that really matters when we're

1165
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 2: talking about these perimeter players that they at least be

1166
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 2: able to clear that bar because otherwise, like if you

1167
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 2: don't get on the field in year one, there's there's

1168
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 2: another good receiver class coming next year, they're just going

1169
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 2: to replace you. And if your coaches aft gets fired,

1170
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:56,760
Speaker 2: like it's it's really easy for this type of player

1171
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 2: to wash out. And for Bell, I'm like, well, on

1172
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 2: the one hand, I think he shows those skills to

1173
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 2: do that. On the other hand, he and I gonna

1174
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:04,919
Speaker 2: play in his rookie year at least probably not early

1175
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,319
Speaker 2: on because this ACL so that makes it complicated. And

1176
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 2: I should also note that he does fit into the

1177
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 2: group of these guys like I've kind of hinted at this,

1178
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 2: that is only a one side of the field player.

1179
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:14,800
Speaker 2: He took seventy eight point nine percent of his sample

1180
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,360
Speaker 2: snaps last year in reception perception at right wide receiver.

1181
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 2: I'm going to have a post on this on my

1182
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 2: site here the next few days, but right now I

1183
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 2: have thirty five receivers from the twenty sixteen twenty seventeen

1184
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen I had a two year gap in charting prospects,

1185
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 2: and then twenty twenty one to twenty twenty four thirty

1186
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:39,280
Speaker 2: five receivers that have been skewed alignment, so only seventy

1187
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 2: plus percent of their snaps at one right or left

1188
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 2: outside receiver position. Those guys average twenty point one yards

1189
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 2: per game in their first two seasons, eighteen point nine

1190
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 2: over the course of their career, and like the yeah,

1191
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 2: the vast majority there's only really been like four true hits.

1192
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 2: It would be Rashi, Rice, Djmore, Drake London, Jujus Smith, Schuster.

1193
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 2: Everybody else is under forty five yards per game through

1194
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:02,960
Speaker 2: their career.

1195
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 1: Bell's interesting because he doesn't have that bad of an

1196
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 1: analytical profile. His his his projected draft capital has risen

1197
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 1: a lot since I published The Prospect Guy, Like he

1198
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 1: could end up being the guy after Boston like in

1199
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 1: the in the model. But like you said, I think

1200
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 1: that we're now approaching this range of extreme volatility because

1201
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:25,359
Speaker 1: Chris Brasel, I think is just thrown it, like you said,

1202
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 1: thrown in that as well, where you know, you look

1203
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: at the rain. I mean, like Chris Bell the Comps

1204
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:31,799
Speaker 1: I got spit out for him, where like Jonathan Mingo,

1205
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 1: jj RTHEGA Whiteside and DK Metcalf. You know, it's like

1206
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 1: like just just everywhere with from like a size speed,

1207
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 1: you know, and that's what you get with like that

1208
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: kind of player in general, that archetype of player is

1209
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 1: just this like does it fully translate like does the

1210
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 1: size and the athleticism or the hopeful athleticism and speed

1211
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 1: really translate. Now, Chris Bell is super big and thick,

1212
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:58,280
Speaker 1: whereas Chris Brasle is more of that like Marteves Bryant build.

1213
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 3: What do you see with Brasl? Like do you do

1214
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 3: you do you see the ceiling with him? Or is

1215
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 3: this more of like a your frightened situation.

1216
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, Brasl ninety five point five percent of his snaps

1217
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 2: at right outside receiver this last year's it's like one

1218
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 2: of the highest ones ever in the RP database. And

1219
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 2: he comes from that Looney Tunes offense at Tennessee. Also,

1220
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 2: like definitely some let's just say mixed character reports out

1221
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 2: there on Chris Brasel, so like he's a guy who

1222
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:31,399
Speaker 2: could fall further than we expect, and these Tennessee guys

1223
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 2: usually do. Like remember when Jalen Hyatt was supposed to

1224
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 2: be a first round pick in twenty twenty three and

1225
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,439
Speaker 2: he went in like the seventies. I liked him too much.

1226
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:39,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was bad.

1227
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 1: That was bad about I've changed my my process a

1228
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,839
Speaker 1: little bit. And that's that's one one person that that

1229
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: forced that.

1230
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 2: Every now and again, I look back at my rankings,

1231
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 2: like I mean, Pukinakul was this way on the positive endpoint,

1232
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 2: and like Jalen Hyatt was this way on the negative standpoint,

1233
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 2: where I was like, I definitely should have just trusted

1234
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 2: the charting numbers when it came to my rankings, Like

1235
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 2: I I'm hesitant to actually put like all of it

1236
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 2: into one aggregate number. Sometimes I'm like, I wish I'd

1237
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 2: done that for a jail And Hyatt because he would

1238
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 2: have been like the worst prospect of all time. But

1239
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 2: I still like kind of ranked him like where he

1240
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 2: went drafted, which I felt vindicated at the time that

1241
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 2: he went in that range, and then he was worse.

1242
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 2: He was way worse than that, So yeah, he was

1243
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:20,839
Speaker 2: I think to bring that back to Brasl, I think

1244
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 2: Brasl is a better prospect than Jalen Hyatt. I kind

1245
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:26,759
Speaker 2: of liked Tillman as a third round pick. I think

1246
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:29,359
Speaker 2: he's similar in that bucket, But the ways that he's

1247
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 2: different is that like he's really fluid and loose as

1248
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 2: a mover in like the intermediate area, so he shows

1249
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 2: an ability to like break off out routes and dig

1250
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 2: routes and kind of will flash that ability, especially against

1251
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 2: press coverage but man coverage. But there's a long way

1252
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:46,560
Speaker 2: to go in terms of his nuance as a route runner,

1253
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,880
Speaker 2: like release moves need to be fully reworked. Like his

1254
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,839
Speaker 2: zone coverage recognition, spatial awareness is very up and down

1255
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 2: and like it's just a long learning curve coming from

1256
00:56:56,520 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 2: that that particular offense and offenses of this family tree

1257
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 2: in general, Josh Josh Hipel coming from like the br

1258
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:06,400
Speaker 2: Art Briles world, like back in the day with Baylor,

1259
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 2: Corey Coleman and those guys. Like it's just not a

1260
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 2: lot of NFL applica applicable stuff, which is why these

1261
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 2: guys don't go high anymore.

1262
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he was like his comps brassels were

1263
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 1: Josh Reynolds, Denzel Mims. He did get George Pickens, but

1264
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: that's more like sigh, Like Pickens' production profile like wasn't otherworldly,

1265
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 1: So that's.

1266
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 2: That was a weird one too, Like that his journey

1267
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 2: was was right.

1268
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: Really hard, really hard about all right. Next on the list,

1269
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 1: Jeremy Bernard. It feels like he's rising a little bit,

1270
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 1: uh just based like people seem to solidly have him

1271
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 1: as like a round two player.

1272
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 3: It feels like at this point, Uh, do you think

1273
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 3: that's that's fair?

1274
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 1: Uh?

1275
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's like a good day to prospect.

1276
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 2: He's a he's a glue guy. He's like good at

1277
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 2: everything where I talk about these guys who have that

1278
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 2: skewed alignment. He's like perfectly even right wide receiver, left

1279
00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 2: wide receiver, slot wide receiver. Like he I think he

1280
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 2: can credibly line up at all three receiver positions. He's

1281
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 2: really good in the intermediate area. Like his dig route

1282
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 2: percentage is incredible. He could just and which I know

1283
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 2: that's like possessing about one route, but this is where

1284
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:12,720
Speaker 2: you're attacking teams right now over the middle of the

1285
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 2: field and split safety the world Like you want to

1286
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 2: put your big boy pants on, drop back and work

1287
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 2: over the intermediate middle of the field. So I think

1288
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 2: Jeremy Bernard checks the box there. He can be useful

1289
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 2: with the ball in his handshle. I don't think some

1290
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 2: of the designery stuff that he got at Alabama's going

1291
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 2: to translate. I just keep I keep calling him like

1292
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 2: glue guy, Jeremy Bernard, and like I think that's who

1293
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 2: he's going to be, like a really good third receiver

1294
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 2: for a team that's probably a better real life player

1295
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 2: than a fantasy player, unless he just lands in like

1296
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 2: an awesome spot.

1297
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 1: I remember whenever one of his comps came up and

1298
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 1: I texted you was Mohammed Sanu and you were like, yes, like.

1299
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 3: That that makes sense. Uh yeah, I don't want to

1300
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 3: be like super high on Bernard.

1301
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about rookie drafts though, and I like, there's

1302
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 1: a chance he goes higher than I would want, just

1303
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 1: because the draft capital might be uh there for him,

1304
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 1: and and people might just follow that a little bit.

1305
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: But I don't think he's like a bad player.

1306
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:05,600
Speaker 3: I just he doesn't really like overly excite me.

1307
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 1: One player who I think could be a little controversial

1308
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 1: is Zachariah Branch, who I mean, if you want to

1309
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 1: probably did he have one of the weirdest perception He

1310
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 1: had to have had one of the weirdest perception perceptions

1311
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 1: you've ever done.

1312
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. One hundred percent, almost twenty nine

1313
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 2: percent of his routes were screen routes. That is the

1314
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 2: highest mark I've ever charted for US prospect. These are

1315
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 2: the only guys that are close Rondel Moore Rest in

1316
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 2: Peace twenty point nine percent, Amari Rodgers eighteen point nine percent,

1317
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 2: are Darius Stewart remember him back in six or sixteen percent?

1318
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:41,200
Speaker 2: No one else I've charted in all of the classes

1319
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 2: I've worked on has even hit fifteen percent of than

1320
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 2: those guys. So yeah, no doubt it's a weird profile.

1321
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, forty five point five percent of his

1322
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 1: targets in general came behind the line of scrimmage across

1323
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 1: his career, which.

1324
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 3: Is just is just wild.

1325
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 1: And again, I mean I've said this on the show

1326
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 1: so many times of this point, but if you look

1327
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:04,160
Speaker 1: at guys who are Day two picks, who who had

1328
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 1: a career behind the line target rate of thirty percent

1329
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 1: or higher, he's at forty He's over forty percent. He's

1330
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 1: at forty five and a half percent, which he's the

1331
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 1: only one over forty percent for the record. Yeah, but

1332
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 1: all of them, aside from Wandell Robinson and Luther Burden,

1333
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 1: have busted big time.

1334
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 3: But Wandall Robinson and Luther Burton both had really really

1335
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 3: good production profiles, like elite production profiles.

1336
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 1: Whereas you know you mentioned some of them, funny enough.

1337
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 1: I mean there's Amari Rodgers, Lynn Bowden, Anthony Schwartz, Canarius,

1338
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: Tony Rondel Moore, rest in Peace, Baylis Jones, Trey Tucker,

1339
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 1: Malachi Corley. I mean it's just it's gadget guy after

1340
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 1: gadget guy that people kept selling themselves on and would say, oh, no,

1341
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 1: this team can work with this player. No, this guy,

1342
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 1: this guy has skills with the ball in his hands,

1343
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 1: which I don't doubt was zach Rye Branch. It's just

1344
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 1: a profile that scares a living crap out of me.

1345
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 1: Is that are you same line of thinking or is

1346
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 1: it one where like if he goes to the Chargers

1347
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: and he gets Mike McDaniel, does that excite you?

1348
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 3: Like, are you like, okay, maybe all draftman rookie drafts

1349
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 3: are he just still like.

1350
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 2: No, does malikue Washington excite you? I mean yeah, Like

1351
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 2: I think League Washington was better as a prospect than

1352
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 2: Zacharia Branch, Like, but I really liked Malik Washington. But yeah,

1353
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 2: Branch is just tough dude, because there's no doubt, like, yeah,

1354
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 2: he's good with the ball in his hands, and he

1355
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 2: flashes sometimes like an ability to beat man coverage on

1356
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 2: like inbreaking routes, but he also has like no catch

1357
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 2: radius whatsoever. He's got small arms and he's just like

1358
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 2: kind of body catches everything because he has to, like

1359
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 2: and that works for him. It actually, it actually works

1360
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 2: for him to do a pretty good like solid contested

1361
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 2: catch right, solid catch right overall in his RP prospect profile.

1362
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 2: But like, is that gonna work at the next level

1363
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 2: like Wandale Robinson's where like the peak peak outcome where

1364
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 2: everything comes together for that guy and he gets a

1365
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 2: ton of targets over the last two years. And also

1366
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:54,400
Speaker 2: Wandal got better last year than he was in his

1367
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 2: earlier career days and stuff like that, so that's a

1368
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:58,920
Speaker 2: big part of it too. But yeah, I wouldn't say

1369
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:02,960
Speaker 2: that like I'm completely out on branch because there are

1370
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 2: more roles for these guys available now, but like they're

1371
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 2: more so roles in like how Jimmy Horn was used

1372
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 2: last year for the Panthers, where it's like he's used

1373
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,640
Speaker 2: as that motion at the snap guy. Occasionally design touches,

1374
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 2: but mostly you're there to do what we said earlier

1375
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 2: with Mike Evans for Tero McMillan, where you create that

1376
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 2: leverage for him to be the inbreaking route player. But like, yeah,

1377
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 2: the design touches guys like if you're not a good receiver.

1378
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:30,760
Speaker 2: In addition to that, like you don't show what I

1379
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 2: would say real receiver stuff like teams the team just

1380
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 2: has to bend over backwards to get that guy the football,

1381
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 2: and that's like harder to do than we think it is.

1382
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 2: So Yeah, to me, it just branches. He's a weird one,

1383
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 2: and I think it's going to really take a lot

1384
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 2: of things to come together for him to be a big,

1385
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 2: big time productive NFL player.

1386
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:51,560
Speaker 1: One player that I was surprised by Matt Waldman loved

1387
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 1: was Malachi Fields because and I said this to like, analytically,

1388
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 1: his profile is pretty garbage.

1389
01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 2: Yeah you hate him, Yeah I'm not.

1390
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:04,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I specifically despise Malach I know, I just don't

1391
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 3: think he's that great of a prospect.

1392
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:07,920
Speaker 1: I mean, his his comps too came in as like

1393
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:10,959
Speaker 1: mac Hollins, you know, Pittman was a comp to be fair,

1394
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 1: like there is you know that kind of outcomes. But

1395
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 1: I also didn't think Pittman was that amazing of a

1396
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:21,920
Speaker 1: prospect analytically at least. But I'm afraid of Fields just

1397
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 1: doesn't have a good age AJU justine profile, are you

1398
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:28,440
Speaker 1: with me, or do you see what Waldman seeing.

1399
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 2: I'm probably somewhere in the middle there where I think

1400
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:35,479
Speaker 2: he's like a solid Day two receiver. I definitely don't

1401
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 2: think he can be used in the way that he

1402
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 2: was used at Notre Dame in the NFL, And by

1403
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:44,400
Speaker 2: that I mean like he was a pure outside X

1404
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 2: receiver running vertical routes, because like he just can't separate

1405
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 2: at the level that he needs to to be running

1406
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 2: a bunch of nine routes and curl routes and stuff

1407
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 2: like that. Now, he does show an ability to drop

1408
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 2: his weight pretty well and separate on curls. He can

1409
01:03:56,560 --> 01:04:00,040
Speaker 2: get into his routes pretty well on slants. I do

1410
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 2: think he probably pro like he profiles in the group

1411
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 2: of receivers. And I have a video coming out on

1412
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 2: this for my YouTube channel pretty soon. Of the guys

1413
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 2: who don't separate at a high level in college, like

1414
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 2: the vast majority of them, if you look at all rounds,

1415
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:15,960
Speaker 2: forty three percent of them end up getting cut on

1416
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 2: their rookie contract. These guys who fall below the thirty

1417
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:21,920
Speaker 2: fifth percentile on reception perception and at least two of

1418
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:25,640
Speaker 2: three of success rate versus man press and zone coverage.

1419
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 2: Most of the guys you go on and hit, and

1420
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,400
Speaker 2: even by the way, if you look at first two

1421
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:35,080
Speaker 2: day drafted players, it's still like the majority of them,

1422
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:37,080
Speaker 2: it's just a little bit lower number get cut on

1423
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 2: their rookie contracts, so the most of them are just

1424
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 2: like flameouts. But the guys who end up hitting are

1425
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 2: usually guys who move into the slot or like volatile

1426
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 2: deep threats. With Fields, I think, like I think Elijah

1427
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 2: Surrott makes much more sense as like a power slot

1428
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:54,200
Speaker 2: conversion than Malachi Fields does. I think Fields might end

1429
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 2: up being one of those kind of like what I

1430
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 2: would call a volatile deep threat like Kaishawn Booty type players,

1431
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:01,000
Speaker 2: where he's a little bit of a sacrificial X, but

1432
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 2: he can win every now and again because he's got

1433
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 2: great ball skills and he does show some ability to

1434
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:08,640
Speaker 2: really read out zone coverage as well. So there's a

1435
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 2: part of me that thinks, like I've tried to do

1436
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 2: this with like Keon Coleman and Jayden Higgins in the past,

1437
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 2: and they're almost like two big to big be big

1438
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:18,120
Speaker 2: slot receivers, like once you're six' four, like you might

1439
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 2: be able too big for that, But That's why I

1440
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:22,640
Speaker 2: like Sarat in that way, because he's six to two hundred,

1441
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:24,920
Speaker 2: like two out of ten, two hundred and twelve pounds

1442
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:27,439
Speaker 2: probably makes more sense to be like a Saint Brown

1443
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:31,280
Speaker 2: Jujuicemis Schuster type. But yeah, I like Fields, but I

1444
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:32,800
Speaker 2: definitely think he could be a little bit of like

1445
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 2: a sacrificial X receiver at the next level.

1446
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 1: So Rat's kind of interesting because he had a really

1447
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:41,439
Speaker 1: he had really good trajectory in college, like starting at

1448
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 1: Saint Francis and then you know, obviously going to James Madison.

1449
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:45,919
Speaker 3: He got better every single year.

1450
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:46,760
Speaker 2: Uh.

1451
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:49,919
Speaker 1: And then I'm I specifically remember talking about him via

1452
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 1: text with you early on because he kept getting these

1453
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:56,680
Speaker 1: like again, these these these bigger guys who ended up

1454
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:59,960
Speaker 1: going to the slot. Whether it be Michael Thomas, pat Bryant,

1455
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 1: I think was uh the one that that resonated best

1456
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:03,680
Speaker 1: with you.

1457
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 3: He actually got a Roma Dunda one too in the

1458
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:08,479
Speaker 3: in the uh, in the prospect guide.

1459
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 1: But I have I'm having a hard time with him

1460
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:17,080
Speaker 1: because while the analytics are certainly not bad at all

1461
01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:20,600
Speaker 1: for Elijah Surat, it seems like folks like yourself or

1462
01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:23,400
Speaker 1: what like NFL mock Draft database and kind of monitoring

1463
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:25,680
Speaker 1: where these guys might be drafted, he's going in the

1464
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:28,240
Speaker 1: opposite direction, And is it Do you think it's because

1465
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 1: of what you're saying, like that he from a separation standpoint,

1466
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 1: it's not really there and it might be more of

1467
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: like a Keon Coleman type.

1468
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 3: Situation, but maybe a better fit for that inside role.

1469
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, like one of these guys, was almost no point

1470
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 2: talking about him until we know where he lands, because like, yeah,

1471
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 2: if his next general manager does what Brandon Bean did

1472
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:50,360
Speaker 2: when he picked key On Coleman comes out of the

1473
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:52,600
Speaker 2: at the post draft president says, yeah, that's our next

1474
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 2: X receive Rome to say forget it, like he Yeah,

1475
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:57,040
Speaker 2: I don't think he can really play in that role

1476
01:06:57,200 --> 01:06:59,280
Speaker 2: and be like a high high volume player, especially if

1477
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 2: you're looking for like fans upside, don't think he can

1478
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:04,320
Speaker 2: be that guy. But for if he goes to a

1479
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 2: team where yeah, they might see him as more of

1480
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:08,640
Speaker 2: like an off ball receiver or yeah, like I mean again,

1481
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:11,880
Speaker 2: the history is of reception perceptions littered with these guys

1482
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:14,920
Speaker 2: that were non separators on the outside and they became

1483
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 2: big slot receivers. You know, it's it's like a Saint

1484
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 2: Brown it's it's Rashie Rice, it's Jus smth Schuster, Like,

1485
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 2: these guys do exist. There is a path for these players.

1486
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 2: But yeah, there's also a path where jujusmth Schuster gets

1487
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 2: drafted by another team and they look at him as like, oh,

1488
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:31,360
Speaker 2: he's over six feet he played on the outside in college,

1489
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:33,280
Speaker 2: Like he's going to be our outside receiver, And I

1490
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:34,840
Speaker 2: don't think it would have worked really well. But yeah,

1491
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:38,480
Speaker 2: Sarrot like sub twentieth percentile success rate versus man impressed,

1492
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 2: but eighty first percentile against zone, Like he's a really

1493
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 2: smart player and has the zone beating chops. Yeah, I

1494
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:46,560
Speaker 2: think you'd want to move inside. But again, a couple

1495
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 2: of weeks from now, he goes to a team that

1496
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 2: us him as an outside receiver because he wins a

1497
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:53,120
Speaker 2: lot of back shoulder and contested catch, you know kind

1498
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:56,080
Speaker 2: of opportunities. I think we're talking about a different story there.

1499
01:07:56,200 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 3: If they needed it. It feels like a Sean Payton player,

1500
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:00,040
Speaker 3: if they if they needed.

1501
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:02,360
Speaker 2: That kind yeah, because that's what they do with Pat Brian,

1502
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 2: And I think SAT's a better prospect than Brian. Like

1503
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:07,320
Speaker 2: I think I think he's a tear better of a prospect,

1504
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 2: Like I do really like Elijah Sarrot. His game kind

1505
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 2: of grew on me, but it's within my little fantasy world.

1506
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 2: If he goes to this spot that does this, and

1507
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:19,360
Speaker 2: I think again, there's a much larger path. Like I said,

1508
01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:21,920
Speaker 2: forty three percent of these guys just get cut on

1509
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:22,799
Speaker 2: their rookie contract.

1510
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, so scary, all right, last guy, I want to

1511
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:26,719
Speaker 1: throw at you before you can just toss out anyone.

1512
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 1: But Antonio Williams got a lad mcconkeye comp as the

1513
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 1: top one in the Prospect Guide. He didn't have the

1514
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:35,479
Speaker 1: same yards prout run numbers and stuff in that, but

1515
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:39,200
Speaker 1: the model's not looking at per route run stuff. It's

1516
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:41,559
Speaker 1: looking at the you know, breakout age or sorry, breakout

1517
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 1: score and such.

1518
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:46,800
Speaker 3: But do you think there's something to Antonio Williams game.

1519
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:49,679
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, He's definitely the leading candidate for the Matt

1520
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 2: Harmon Fell for It Again Award, which is like small

1521
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:57,479
Speaker 2: man beating slot receiver who just doesn't get enough playing time,

1522
01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:00,920
Speaker 2: and you know, he becomes Jane Reedy becomes Josh I like,

1523
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:03,839
Speaker 2: I like Josh Allens a lot better as a prospect

1524
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:06,920
Speaker 2: than Anthony Williams. I like lab McConkie a lot better. Like,

1525
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:09,240
Speaker 2: Lad's the guy who's been able to survive this kind

1526
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:12,719
Speaker 2: of stereotyping, even though he was stereotyped as a white

1527
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:15,599
Speaker 2: you know, pop gun slot receiving. Sure he was stereotyped

1528
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 2: in that way, but he survived at the NFL level.

1529
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:18,679
Speaker 2: Is a guy who can win on the outside because

1530
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:20,760
Speaker 2: he can beat man coverage. Who knows if that's gonna

1531
01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 2: happen with Williams, Like I really, really really do like

1532
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:26,320
Speaker 2: the prospect profile. Like I said, he does beat man

1533
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 2: coverage seventy fifth percentile. He's over eighty one percent against zone,

1534
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:32,400
Speaker 2: So like he shows the requistit ability to beat his

1535
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:34,719
Speaker 2: zone coverage to be a slot but also that ability

1536
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:36,920
Speaker 2: to beat man coverage is really key. But in the

1537
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:38,920
Speaker 2: game's chartered for him, Like, yeah, he was an eighty

1538
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 2: two percent slot player. He was in the backfield for

1539
01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 2: forty four point three percent of his snaps. He was

1540
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 2: off the ball on eighty six percent of his snaps.

1541
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 2: Like the NFL is kind of we talked about this

1542
01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:49,639
Speaker 2: earlier this year, Like the NFL is kind of moving

1543
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:52,840
Speaker 2: away from this arc type of receivers. So I'm trying

1544
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 2: to like actively temper my enthusiasm for Williams, but I

1545
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:58,479
Speaker 2: do really like him. And you know, I had waldenon

1546
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:00,120
Speaker 2: on my show and I asked him, like, who you

1547
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:02,160
Speaker 2: like better as a glue guy? You know, the Jeremy

1548
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:05,280
Speaker 2: Bernard or the Antonio Williams. Like talent wise, I would

1549
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:09,120
Speaker 2: rather have Antonio Williams. But Jeremy Bernard kind of fits

1550
01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:11,240
Speaker 2: more the arc type of what teams are looking for

1551
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:14,680
Speaker 2: from that slot Z player more than Antonio Williams is

1552
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:17,439
Speaker 2: right now. But I do really like him, and you know,

1553
01:10:17,479 --> 01:10:20,639
Speaker 2: it kind of depends on where he goes to really decide,

1554
01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:23,160
Speaker 2: like is he going to fall victim to that Josh

1555
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 2: Downs path or not.

1556
01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:26,960
Speaker 3: I didn't think I was gonna be an Antonio Williams guy.

1557
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:29,320
Speaker 1: When I wrote up the his prospect profile and then

1558
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 1: I looked at what the market was doing after I

1559
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:32,040
Speaker 1: published everything.

1560
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:34,360
Speaker 3: Not only are rookie rankings they haven't.

1561
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:37,240
Speaker 1: Met like wide receiver fifteen to eighteen or so, but

1562
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:39,719
Speaker 1: like Best Ball drafts, right now, he's like the rookie

1563
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:42,720
Speaker 1: wide receiver twenty or twenty one. Like he's just completely

1564
01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 1: an afterthought.

1565
01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:47,000
Speaker 3: I think he's I think he's going to go Day

1566
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:48,679
Speaker 3: two like this is he should.

1567
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, like this is likely a day two wide receiver,

1568
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:53,320
Speaker 1: and I feel like he's just kind of an afterthought

1569
01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 1: for people, so at least keep an eye on him.

1570
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:58,160
Speaker 1: Like his his analytical profile was like solid because he

1571
01:10:58,200 --> 01:10:59,439
Speaker 1: got early career production.

1572
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:02,559
Speaker 3: But he never had that, like he never spiked it never.

1573
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:05,519
Speaker 1: It never like really progressed to a point where you

1574
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:08,960
Speaker 1: know you were overly excited. But all right, before I

1575
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:11,679
Speaker 1: let you go throw out some names, anybody that that's

1576
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:13,679
Speaker 1: exciting you in this in this draft class, we haven't

1577
01:11:13,680 --> 01:11:14,080
Speaker 1: talked about.

1578
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 2: Yeah. I only want to bring this guy up because

1579
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:20,280
Speaker 2: I know that your model hates him. And I know

1580
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:23,760
Speaker 2: this because I because I quoted your model in his

1581
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:26,479
Speaker 2: write up. I quoted the draft guy in his write up.

1582
01:11:27,080 --> 01:11:29,840
Speaker 2: There is something about Dion Burks that I really do like.

1583
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:32,760
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Harmon, you're doing this, you're doing this

1584
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:36,400
Speaker 1: that literally I remember I remember there was a a

1585
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:40,439
Speaker 1: someone who had ranked him early on, like this is

1586
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:42,880
Speaker 1: back in like February or some Yeah, I think it

1587
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:45,320
Speaker 1: was like a top forty player and they're in there

1588
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 1: and I I texted you and I was like, I

1589
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:51,479
Speaker 1: cannot believe that this person is ranking Dion freaking Burks

1590
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 1: and like just railing against Burkes and now you're gonna

1591
01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:56,680
Speaker 1: talk him up on the podcast.

1592
01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:57,719
Speaker 3: What is going on here?

1593
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:00,240
Speaker 2: Like I said, I quoted you in in the right

1594
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:02,800
Speaker 2: up about how like his career yards per route run

1595
01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:04,640
Speaker 2: puts him in a bucket of like best players as

1596
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:05,920
Speaker 2: Josh Palmer.

1597
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, his career yards run is in

1598
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:09,280
Speaker 1: the fifth percentile.

1599
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:13,760
Speaker 3: It's one point three five. It's horrendous, I know.

1600
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:16,679
Speaker 2: And he is an even bigger candidate for the Felford

1601
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:19,959
Speaker 2: Again Award of like small guy that just like knows.

1602
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:23,640
Speaker 3: If he goes day two. I can't even explain to

1603
01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:26,719
Speaker 3: you how far out I am on them. I can't

1604
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:27,320
Speaker 3: even explain.

1605
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:30,479
Speaker 2: But there's listen, I get it. And it's not like

1606
01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:33,160
Speaker 2: he's got some great charting profile or anything. It's not

1607
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 2: like he was like Elijah Moore or something like that. Okay,

1608
01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 2: great com because I liked Elijah so did I like

1609
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:43,400
Speaker 2: so I mean that way too much. He was the

1610
01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:48,160
Speaker 2: number one player in my Missus video. But yeah, Burke's though,

1611
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:51,240
Speaker 2: I do think like there's some appealing parts to his game,

1612
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:53,720
Speaker 2: like he I do think he separates pretty well. I

1613
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:58,080
Speaker 2: love how competitive he is. He's really tough. He is

1614
01:12:58,120 --> 01:13:01,280
Speaker 2: good with the ball in his hands. He really fights

1615
01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:04,320
Speaker 2: back to the football against zone coverage on like curls

1616
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:07,760
Speaker 2: and comeback routes. So he's just somebody that, like I

1617
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:10,439
Speaker 2: do think there's there's something more to him than the

1618
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:13,799
Speaker 2: production tells. I don't know how much I'm not gonna

1619
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:16,760
Speaker 2: come out of here like flag plant, Dion Burks or

1620
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:21,639
Speaker 2: anything like that. Probably yeah, but I like just I'm

1621
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:24,240
Speaker 2: not I'm not gonna totally write him off. You can

1622
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:27,240
Speaker 2: totally write him off, and that's fine. I'm not gonna

1623
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:30,880
Speaker 2: totally write him off of being like a useful NFL player.

1624
01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:34,360
Speaker 2: I think there's something on film to Dion Burks.

1625
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 3: Okay, is that is that Jack?

1626
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:36,920
Speaker 2: Is that?

1627
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:39,120
Speaker 1: Is that gonna be the only that's gonna be the

1628
01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:41,040
Speaker 1: only other guy we haven't talked about that you want

1629
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:41,519
Speaker 1: to call out.

1630
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 3: On the show. No, no, no.

1631
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:47,160
Speaker 2: I also think there's kind of I don't know what

1632
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:49,000
Speaker 2: you think about Bryce Lance, but like there's something to

1633
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:50,360
Speaker 2: Bryce Lance too, Like.

1634
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:51,880
Speaker 3: He's really hard.

1635
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:53,880
Speaker 1: He's really hard for me to evaluate because he did

1636
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:56,799
Speaker 1: nothing the first few years of his college career, literally nothing,

1637
01:13:56,840 --> 01:14:00,240
Speaker 1: and so like anything age adjusted is gonna just not

1638
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:03,120
Speaker 1: like him, So the model just doesn't love him. I mean,

1639
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:05,960
Speaker 1: I get the upside case. Of course, the dude is

1640
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:09,080
Speaker 1: a freak, like he's yeah, he's a monster, but yeah,

1641
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:09,799
Speaker 1: it's a little.

1642
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:11,000
Speaker 3: Bit of a tough evaluation for me. But I want

1643
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:11,880
Speaker 3: to I want to hear what we have to say

1644
01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:14,000
Speaker 3: about him. No, the upside case is definitely.

1645
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:15,920
Speaker 2: I mean, he's a guy that I think got better

1646
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:18,960
Speaker 2: over the course of his college charting that I did

1647
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:21,639
Speaker 2: for him. He's got like a weird style of running

1648
01:14:21,640 --> 01:14:24,040
Speaker 2: where he almost kind of like leans into his routes

1649
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:26,879
Speaker 2: that I think he kind of knocked off the longer

1650
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:29,680
Speaker 2: that he went and really showed the ability to like

1651
01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:34,000
Speaker 2: truly stack defenders on the perimeter as an X receiver.

1652
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:37,480
Speaker 2: Now he's playing against some like complete goofball levels of competition,

1653
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:41,120
Speaker 2: and obviously that you know, is a is a problem

1654
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:43,240
Speaker 2: when you're looking at the charting data. But from a

1655
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:46,840
Speaker 2: charting standpoint, like he hit him and Chris Brasel's numbers

1656
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:49,679
Speaker 2: are like almost identical. And I just mean that to say,

1657
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:52,240
Speaker 2: like he's a good arbitrage play on a guy like

1658
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:54,880
Speaker 2: Chris Brasel. So if you're looking for that kind of

1659
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:59,160
Speaker 2: like upside vertical shot receiver. I think Lance makes sense

1660
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 2: and nothing more than like a third round pick type

1661
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:06,040
Speaker 2: player in the NFL draft. But yeah, like there's a

1662
01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:09,000
Speaker 2: different flavor that like him, and like I people really

1663
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:10,800
Speaker 2: like ted Hurst. I really like ted Hurst as well,

1664
01:15:11,439 --> 01:15:13,720
Speaker 2: but he's different than like Lance has more like true

1665
01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:16,000
Speaker 2: vertical ability to him, wheas hearse is more of like

1666
01:15:16,040 --> 01:15:18,639
Speaker 2: a slasher in the mold of like Tory Horton last year.

1667
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:22,280
Speaker 3: M okay, uh, did you you did Brennan Thompson? Didn't you?

1668
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:23,920
Speaker 2: I did? Yes? Yeah?

1669
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:25,240
Speaker 3: Did you did you like him?

1670
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:28,400
Speaker 1: I'm curious because obviously he he ran the fast forty

1671
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:31,120
Speaker 1: uh and he has speed he got you know, he

1672
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 1: got like the JJ Nelson comp as one of them

1673
01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:35,240
Speaker 1: you know in the in the that that I think

1674
01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:38,799
Speaker 1: is like a very real outcome and like a probable outcome.

1675
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:41,439
Speaker 1: But he also had like the tang deell Calvin Austin

1676
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:43,880
Speaker 1: was another one, Like you know, he's a smaller wide

1677
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:46,479
Speaker 1: out and he's fast, but his production profile really wasn't

1678
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:47,200
Speaker 1: that that bad.

1679
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:48,519
Speaker 3: So I'm curious what you saw with him?

1680
01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:49,479
Speaker 2: Yeah I do.

1681
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:52,320
Speaker 3: I mean, look the hundred and sixty four pounds, so yeah.

1682
01:15:52,439 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty wild spent high draft capital on him in

1683
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:57,200
Speaker 1: your rookie drafts.

1684
01:15:57,240 --> 01:16:01,080
Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, and there's also red flags his profile, Like

1685
01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:03,160
Speaker 2: he's another guy eighty one point nine percent of his

1686
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:05,840
Speaker 2: snaps came it right outside receiver. He ran a curl

1687
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:09,599
Speaker 2: route on almost thirty nine percent of his charted routes.

1688
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:13,320
Speaker 2: Like it's a lot of just bs hitches that really

1689
01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 2: go nowhere, which I think kind of makes him a

1690
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:20,320
Speaker 2: really difficult evaluation, particularly against zone coverage. But he wasn't

1691
01:16:20,400 --> 01:16:23,000
Speaker 2: just under seventy one percent success rate verse man coverage,

1692
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:27,000
Speaker 2: and he just truly truly can fly, Like, yeah, I

1693
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:31,759
Speaker 2: would say he is, and this player is way better

1694
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:33,479
Speaker 2: and bigger and went in the first round, but like

1695
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:35,320
Speaker 2: he's very similar to like Jamison Williams and how he

1696
01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:38,839
Speaker 2: could just outrun an entire SEC defense and like Thompson

1697
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:42,040
Speaker 2: has that ability and really can just pull away on

1698
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:44,439
Speaker 2: go routes, like all of his vertical routes success rates

1699
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:46,880
Speaker 2: are really high, and he does show the ability to

1700
01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:49,439
Speaker 2: sometimes throttle down. But he's also another guy that's always

1701
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:51,640
Speaker 2: running at full speed and will get himself covered up

1702
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:54,519
Speaker 2: against zone at times. But yeah, there's there's something there.

1703
01:16:55,479 --> 01:16:57,080
Speaker 2: At the same time, like I kind of thought Calvin

1704
01:16:57,120 --> 01:16:58,800
Speaker 2: Austin was a guy that like, yeah, he played real

1705
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:01,200
Speaker 2: deal like perimeter received which is what Thompson had played,

1706
01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:05,320
Speaker 2: real deal perimeter receiver outside in again admittedly like a

1707
01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:07,599
Speaker 2: stripped down route Tree and Kamnass has been a fine

1708
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:09,799
Speaker 2: NFL player, but yeah, not somebody that you want fantasy.

1709
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:13,240
Speaker 1: Well, everyone's matching zach Ry Branch to the Chargers. I

1710
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:18,200
Speaker 1: think Thompson would be interesting there. To pair him with McDaniel.

1711
01:17:18,280 --> 01:17:21,640
Speaker 1: They need, they need that speed, that that verticality a

1712
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:23,640
Speaker 1: little bit in that offense. I'd just be I just

1713
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:28,719
Speaker 1: want to see him with a smart, good offensive coordinator

1714
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:31,320
Speaker 1: and offensive mind, just to see what they can they

1715
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:34,120
Speaker 1: can do with that speed. And I know that he's smaller,

1716
01:17:34,240 --> 01:17:36,599
Speaker 1: and I usually fade the smaller guys, but look, if

1717
01:17:36,600 --> 01:17:38,599
Speaker 1: it's the third round of your rookie draft or something,

1718
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:39,880
Speaker 1: fourth round, why not.

1719
01:17:40,040 --> 01:17:43,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could do worse. I think he's got more

1720
01:17:43,040 --> 01:17:47,400
Speaker 2: to him than you probably think. Like the tip, he's

1721
01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:49,720
Speaker 2: got like some better numbers than Xavier Worthy, who was

1722
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:53,840
Speaker 2: like another one hundred and sixty pound receiver who probably

1723
01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:56,439
Speaker 2: should not definitely should not have gone where he went

1724
01:17:56,680 --> 01:17:58,720
Speaker 2: in the NFL draft. But you know that's a whole

1725
01:17:58,760 --> 01:17:59,320
Speaker 2: other topic.

1726
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:02,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm I mean, well, Zach Branch is probably going

1727
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:03,920
Speaker 1: to be a chief we're fully aware of.

1728
01:18:04,439 --> 01:18:08,360
Speaker 2: So gross, so bad. But yes, but yes, you're right,

1729
01:18:08,400 --> 01:18:10,120
Speaker 2: like Zach Ryan Branch is one hundred percent and to

1730
01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:13,680
Speaker 2: have I yeah, yeah, yeah, jeez, I'm still tilting for

1731
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:16,679
Speaker 2: the Dion Burks. How bad his production is so crazy?

1732
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:18,160
Speaker 3: I don't horrendous.

1733
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:20,080
Speaker 2: I don't think it's I don't think he's that bad

1734
01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:21,880
Speaker 2: of a player, like I just I don't get it.

1735
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:24,200
Speaker 2: But you know, yeah, we'll see what happened.

1736
01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:26,240
Speaker 3: We'll see what happens. All right, This was awesome, man.

1737
01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:28,360
Speaker 1: Let everyone know what you're working on, where they can

1738
01:18:28,400 --> 01:18:30,839
Speaker 1: find you and where they can subscribe to Reception Perception.

1739
01:18:31,400 --> 01:18:35,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, Reception Perception dot com. I am hoping to have

1740
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:40,080
Speaker 2: no I will have thirty wide receivers, either full profiles

1741
01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:42,280
Speaker 2: or on the Rookie Roundup, which is a post I

1742
01:18:42,280 --> 01:18:45,840
Speaker 2: put up of mini samples on the NFL Draft day

1743
01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:47,920
Speaker 2: that morning. It'll go up so some of the more

1744
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:50,680
Speaker 2: under the radar type players. But yeah, still have at

1745
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:53,840
Speaker 2: least five more full profiles coming in addition to the

1746
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:55,519
Speaker 2: guys that I have on the site, so you can

1747
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:57,680
Speaker 2: read the full profiles. You can see the stacked rankings

1748
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:00,599
Speaker 2: over there, and all the work I'm doing Yahoo as

1749
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:02,840
Speaker 2: well leading up to the NFL Draft. Yahoo Fantasy Forecast

1750
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:05,200
Speaker 2: Football three oh one are my shows over there.

1751
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:07,960
Speaker 1: Definitely check out all that, all of that out. You guys,

1752
01:19:08,240 --> 01:19:09,800
Speaker 1: you and you and co are doing awesome work. And

1753
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:13,120
Speaker 1: you guys have added people too to the doing. You're

1754
01:19:13,160 --> 01:19:14,880
Speaker 1: you're finally doing tight end charting.

1755
01:19:15,080 --> 01:19:17,439
Speaker 2: No, I'm not doing it, but Max Siskano, Yeah, we

1756
01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:19,479
Speaker 2: brought him into charged tight ends for us, and that's

1757
01:19:19,479 --> 01:19:22,080
Speaker 2: been really cool to see, uh, those profiles come together.

1758
01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:24,439
Speaker 2: I did a show with Max for reception perception of

1759
01:19:24,439 --> 01:19:25,599
Speaker 2: the show last week, and.

1760
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:27,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, that guy is, uh, he is in the weeds.

1761
01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:31,479
Speaker 1: And then there's been some there's really some interesting takes

1762
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:33,439
Speaker 1: that I've found with the with the tight end stuff

1763
01:19:33,479 --> 01:19:36,080
Speaker 1: that you know, like that at least like the ZAP

1764
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:38,760
Speaker 1: model didn't pick up on, or like names that I

1765
01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:41,479
Speaker 1: because I didn't write the profiles for the tight end stuff,

1766
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:44,240
Speaker 1: but like the look.

1767
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:45,880
Speaker 3: At us just farming out the tight end work.

1768
01:19:46,680 --> 01:19:51,160
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, uh, but just names that like I didn't

1769
01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:54,519
Speaker 1: have necessarily strongly on my radar. And and it's it's

1770
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:56,479
Speaker 1: good to have that perspective, so everyone should check that

1771
01:19:56,479 --> 01:19:57,960
Speaker 1: out Reception Perception dot com.

1772
01:19:58,160 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 3: Check out the Prospect Guide.

1773
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:03,599
Speaker 1: It's still available for sale for for consumption, and then

1774
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:06,880
Speaker 1: you will get the post draft version just a couple

1775
01:20:06,920 --> 01:20:09,360
Speaker 1: hours after the draft is over. We're working all draft

1776
01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:13,400
Speaker 1: weekend on this. That's next weekend. Check it all out

1777
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:18,240
Speaker 1: Lateround dot com. Otherwise, everyone, thanks for tuning in. H