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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network, brought to

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Speaker 1: you by Interstate Batteries from your truck to your trail

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Speaker 1: camera and everything in between. If you have a piece

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Speaker 1: of hunting gear or a piece of hunting equipment that

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Speaker 1: needs a battery, Interstate Batteries is that got you covered?

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Speaker 1: You can go to a local retail store, or you

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Speaker 1: can go visit online at Interstate batteries dot com. They

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Speaker 1: have thousands of local retail shops all over the US,

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Speaker 1: so you can go there as well. Interstate Batteries outrageously dependable.

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Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nucleman. I'm the host of the

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Speaker 1: Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your host into

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Speaker 1: the world of hunting the icon of North American wilderness.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about tactics, gear, conservation, but will also bring

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Speaker 1: you into some of the wildest country on the planet chasing.

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Speaker 1: On this episode, I'm joined by my friend Chris Pale

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Speaker 1: of the Houndsman XP podcast. He was on his way

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Speaker 1: back from Arizona head back to Indiana, stopped by our

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Speaker 1: Northwest Arkansas global headquarters and we had a very interesting conversation.

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Speaker 1: Chris is a he's a retired game Board conservation officer,

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Speaker 1: and so we spend quite a bit of the podcast

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Speaker 1: talking about law enforcement, wildlife related law enforcement, and he

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Speaker 1: had some incredible stories. Chris was also a dog trainer

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Speaker 1: for law enforcement purposes, and so we go into quite

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Speaker 1: a bit of that, and we talk about hound or

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Speaker 1: dog noses, their their ability to smell, and we translate

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Speaker 1: that into the hunting context. So we do talk quite

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Speaker 1: a bit about hounds and talk about how hounds smell.

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Speaker 1: But it comes from his knowledge and and experience in

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Speaker 1: training these dogs, drug dogs and wildlife related law enforcement dogs.

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Speaker 1: So super interesting. I want to draw your attention to

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Speaker 1: our friends at the Western Bear Foundation. As many know,

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Speaker 1: the grizzly bear population is exploded in Wyoming, Montana, and

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Speaker 1: parts of Idaho, and the Western Bear Foundation is trying

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Speaker 1: to help develop and have a voice inside the management

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Speaker 1: plans for grizzly black bear. The Western Bear Foundation is

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Speaker 1: dedicated to the protection and development of bears, bear habitat,

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Speaker 1: and bear hunting in the Western United States. Check out

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Speaker 1: our friends at the Western Bear Foundation. We're at the

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Speaker 1: Bear Hunting Magazine Global headquarters today and I've got with

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Speaker 1: me a gentleman that has become a good friend mine.

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Speaker 1: But today is actually the first day that we've shaken

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Speaker 1: hands a lot of phone conversations. Yes, I've got Chris

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Speaker 1: Pale with me here. Chris is Chris is the host

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Speaker 1: with Steve Fielder on the Hounsman XP podcast, and so

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Speaker 1: Chris is a big houndsman and he's just now coming

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Speaker 1: back through Arkansas from Arizona. I wanted to stop by here.

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Speaker 1: I had to come back through, had to, you know, Chris,

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Speaker 1: they say, I read done a lot of history research

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Speaker 1: on Arkansas's estate and like the pioneer times and how

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Speaker 1: it's homesteaded in Arkansas is basically on the way to nowhere,

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Speaker 1: and so the only people that showed up here were

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Speaker 1: bandits and outlaws and those who were indebted and distressed.

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Speaker 1: And so if you're hauling dogs from Indiana all the

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Speaker 1: way out to chase bears in Arizona, you might qualify

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Speaker 1: as like in that category of I don't know. Well,

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Speaker 1: I called my wife. When I talked to my wife

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Speaker 1: the other day, she asked me how it was going,

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Speaker 1: and I told her, I said, well, I've got everything

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Speaker 1: I need with me, you know, so I could literally

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Speaker 1: stop in where I got all my all my hunting

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Speaker 1: gear all my dogs. Yeah, I'm I'm just free wheeling

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Speaker 1: right now. She said, what about me? And I said,

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Speaker 1: if you want to meet me somewhere, we're good, you know. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Well so you're you're I'm glad that you stopped by today.

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Speaker 1: First of all, is this actually on the way through?

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Speaker 1: I mean, would you talk through this brighten in here?

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Speaker 1: I came within forty miles north of you on the

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Speaker 1: way out, so I think through Joplin or somewhere. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you would have come right pretty close through here West FORKA.

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Speaker 1: You have an opportunity to stop at the Bear Hunting

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Speaker 1: Magazine World headquarters. You don't pass. Yeah. So Chris has

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Speaker 1: guy his he's got his side by side with his

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Speaker 1: new dog box, aluminum dog box built on the back,

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Speaker 1: which is really cool. Got the hounds ti it out

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Speaker 1: out front, and uh we recorded a whole other intro

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Speaker 1: to this podcast before my dog that's in here right now.

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Speaker 1: My fern walked over the chords, pulled all our equipment

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Speaker 1: off the table, and crashed all our stuff on the ground.

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Speaker 1: So we've got a good start here, Chris. Hey, we're

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Speaker 1: starting over. Let's do it. We're starting over. But now,

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Speaker 1: so what we're gonna talk about, or what I want

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Speaker 1: to talk about with you is I do want to

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Speaker 1: talk about hound stuff. I want to talk about the

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Speaker 1: House next Week podcast, and I want to talk to

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Speaker 1: I want to learn a little bit more about you, Chris.

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Speaker 1: Chris is a retired game warden. So Chris is, uh,

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Speaker 1: you're young to be retired. How are you thirty five? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Thanks for that. Sol first took me serious. You're like, no, Clay,

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Speaker 1: I'm not thirty five. Yeah. No, I just turned fifty

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Speaker 1: in February. Man, So when did you start? When did

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Speaker 1: you become a game where you had to be young? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: When I was twenty one years old. Okay, so you

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Speaker 1: retire after how long? It's kind of a confusing deal,

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Speaker 1: but you know, you have to have twenty five years

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Speaker 1: of service in a war uh to get your insurance.

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Speaker 1: So that's always a big that's how they trap you,

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Speaker 1: uh and make you stay for that long. But you

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Speaker 1: have to be fifty before you can start drawing the

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Speaker 1: retirement benefits. So I had my time in for my

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Speaker 1: insurance and then just had to wait a few minutes

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Speaker 1: to a few few months to start collecting my retirement funds,

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Speaker 1: so I had another job opportunity as well, so it

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Speaker 1: felt right. It was it was the right time. Good. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's when I see guys retire at a young I mean,

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Speaker 1: i'd say that's super young to retire. It is. I

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Speaker 1: think it's pretty cool. Yeah. My grandfather retired when he

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Speaker 1: was fifty um and had a successful floor covering business

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Speaker 1: back in Columbus, Indiana. And and I didn't have any intention.

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Speaker 1: Well I'm still not retired. I mean, I've I've got

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Speaker 1: stuff going on between the podcast and and uh home

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Speaker 1: re innovation business. Then then I stayed pretty busy. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: well tell me about well, I guess first tell me

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Speaker 1: about how you got into hounds, because that's that would

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Speaker 1: be a pretty significant passion inside of your life as hounds.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if I want to get into

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Speaker 1: game ward and stuff or hound stuff first. Let's say

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Speaker 1: the hound stuff for last, because once we get into hounds,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna roll into lots of different topics. But so,

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Speaker 1: twenty one years old, you decide you wanted to be

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Speaker 1: a game word I knew a long time before that. Well, okay,

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Speaker 1: here's my question. Did you do it because being a

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Speaker 1: game warden was the only way that you knew how

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Speaker 1: to work in the quote outdoor industry or were you

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Speaker 1: truly interested in law enforcement or did you truly have

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Speaker 1: this natural inborn desire as a young man to protect wildlife. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that's complex, Um, you can just tell me why you

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Speaker 1: did it, you know, I guess it was a deal

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Speaker 1: where I knew from a young age. Uh, I love

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Speaker 1: to hunt, I love the outdoors. And we get we

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Speaker 1: get applicants all the time. I spent several years training

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Speaker 1: recruits for the department. And you always get people to say,

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Speaker 1: you ask him, why do you want to be a

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Speaker 1: game warden? And and oh yeah, you always ask him

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Speaker 1: why do you what do you want to be a

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Speaker 1: conservation officer? I like to hunt and I like to fish.

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Speaker 1: I love the outdoors. Well, there's a lot of people

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Speaker 1: that do that, you know, why do you want to

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Speaker 1: be a conservation officer? And it's kind of a lifestyle

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Speaker 1: type thing. It's it's a deal where I always said this,

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Speaker 1: conservation officers are have a deep affection for the natural resources.

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Speaker 1: You know, the same things that we're trying to go

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Speaker 1: out and protect most of the time are the same

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Speaker 1: same areas that we recreate, you know, if I was

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Speaker 1: a state trooper, you know, I don't. I don't recreate

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Speaker 1: with meth, you know. But as a country ration offics,

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Speaker 1: you recreate hunting, fishing, doing all those things, and and

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Speaker 1: it becomes a lifestyle. It's not just a job. And um,

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest things for me about being a

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Speaker 1: conservation officer, and maybe I'm jumping ahead here giving you

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Speaker 1: the thirty thousand foot view right now, Uh, the thing

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Speaker 1: that I enjoyed the most was I had a job

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Speaker 1: to do, and I was very serious about that job.

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Speaker 1: But the underlying passion behind everything else was to protect honey,

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Speaker 1: you know, even from a young age. Yeah, even when

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Speaker 1: I was twenty one years old. Yeah, I mean it's

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Speaker 1: law enforcement and and uh uh you have to do

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Speaker 1: the law enforcement part and I and I did that aggressively. Uh,

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Speaker 1: but it was always with the underlying thought that you

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Speaker 1: want to do something illegal, you are not representing me

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Speaker 1: as a hunt Yeah. So that's that's I always approached it. So, UM,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't to go out and and hunt down the

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Speaker 1: true sportsman and try to find something wrong. It was

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Speaker 1: to protect the sport of hunting from Do you think

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Speaker 1: that's common though, because I don't I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it is. I think it is. Yeah, being on the

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Speaker 1: inside of law enforcement, there's very few people in my

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Speaker 1: business and I know him from east coast, west coast,

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Speaker 1: all across the country, and the number one priority is

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Speaker 1: to protect hunting. You know. Um biologists a lot of

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Speaker 1: times are the same way. You know they they they

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Speaker 1: get questioned a lot on the things that the decisions

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Speaker 1: they make and rules processes and stuff, but they're trying

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Speaker 1: to to do the best thing for the resource and

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Speaker 1: to represent sportsmen. Yeah, that's good. I'd like to hear that,

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Speaker 1: because you know, you kind of have this the general

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Speaker 1: consistent consensus in the hunting community. I think would be

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Speaker 1: kind of that game wardens. And I'm using them. I'm

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Speaker 1: using the term that people would use if they were recognized.

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Speaker 1: I would would would say, would would they feel some

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Speaker 1: animosity towards them even if they're law abiding? You know?

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Speaker 1: And in some sense that's good in the hunting community

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Speaker 1: to have the fear of God inside of you to

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Speaker 1: obey the game laws, which I really strongly do. I mean,

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Speaker 1: like I like, I I am almost manic about obeyed

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Speaker 1: game laws. Not I mean just I just I'm always

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Speaker 1: worried I'm gonna make a mistake, you know. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: and and because you make a mistake, you still get

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Speaker 1: you know, you you you broke the law. One of

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Speaker 1: the one of the things you know a person I

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Speaker 1: will be able to go out and enjoy hunting without

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Speaker 1: without the fear of making a mistake. And there's there's

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Speaker 1: there are legitimate reasons why you feel that way. Um,

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Speaker 1: as an officer, when you when you pull up to

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Speaker 1: a situation, we have no personal history with Clay newcom

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Speaker 1: you know, so we've got to be able to sift

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Speaker 1: through that chaff and get down to um, you know,

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Speaker 1: what the what's really going on here? So you don't

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Speaker 1: know if I'm a good guy or a bad guy. No,

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Speaker 1: not at all. You know, you just got to deal

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Speaker 1: with information you have. And this guy may have made

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Speaker 1: a mistake, and you don't know if he did it

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Speaker 1: on purpose, or if he did it on accident, or

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Speaker 1: if he you know, what's what's really going on here?

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Speaker 1: You know? And I was a supervisor for several years

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Speaker 1: and and one of the worst mistakes that that officers

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Speaker 1: make is they feel like they've got to make they've

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Speaker 1: got to make cases to uh, build their reputation among

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Speaker 1: their peers as officers. And it's not that it's competitive,

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Speaker 1: but you don't want to appear to be lazy, you know,

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Speaker 1: our our training or too soft. Yeah, are too soft,

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Speaker 1: you know, uh, and get ran over. Our training is

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Speaker 1: very high. I mean it's very high energy, it's very intense.

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Speaker 1: We gotta recruit class going on in Indiana right now,

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Speaker 1: and uh, we have drill instructors in those classes, and

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Speaker 1: we try to build character principles and these guys and

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Speaker 1: if you're lazy or you're a slover, you are not

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Speaker 1: gonna make it. You're not going to become an officer

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Speaker 1: in Indiana. Uh. And then that carries over into an

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Speaker 1: officer's career where he wants to be successful and he

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Speaker 1: wants to, you know, build a good reputation among himself.

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Speaker 1: And I think a lot of times we get a

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Speaker 1: little bit go down rabbit paths where we're trying to

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Speaker 1: impress our peers rather than serve the sporting public. And

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Speaker 1: so that I've been there, I've done it. But I

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Speaker 1: used to tell my guys, you know, who needs who

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Speaker 1: needs this ticket? If you're gonna write a ticket, you

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Speaker 1: better make sure that the situation warrants it. Do does

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Speaker 1: the does the sport, does the person you're resting need that,

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Speaker 1: or do you need that? You know, are you doing

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Speaker 1: it for them because you think that it's warranted, or

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Speaker 1: you doing it for you because you want to boast

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Speaker 1: your ego? Yeah, so yeah, it's a it's a slippery slope.

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Speaker 1: And when you're on the outside and you're looking into it,

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Speaker 1: and I know it's not a fair it's not a

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Speaker 1: fair assessment. And I guess I just wanted just doing

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Speaker 1: their job. I just learned to live with it. Um.

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Speaker 1: And but I can't tell you the number of times.

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Speaker 1: I mean I worked in the same area for for

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Speaker 1: twenty five years, and uh, a lot of the people

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Speaker 1: I arrested. I sat in church with some of the

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Speaker 1: people I arrested, you know, end up in the church

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Speaker 1: with a rough crowd. Man, I took a confession. The

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Speaker 1: guy wanted to, uh to meet me at the church

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Speaker 1: to to talk to me about an illegal turkey shot?

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Speaker 1: Is that right? Yeah? And uh, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: he felt like he could tell the truth, that he

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Speaker 1: couldn't lie at church or what, but but uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he so I did go to church with the those

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Speaker 1: guys and and it's not like there was some great

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Speaker 1: pleasure in you know, making a rest. There is some

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Speaker 1: satisfaction in knowing that you you worked in investigation and

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Speaker 1: you came down your job, you did your jobs. It

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Speaker 1: was it was satisfying. So well, I like, I've never

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Speaker 1: thought of it from the position of that you are

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Speaker 1: doing it in defense of hunting, Like that's I think

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Speaker 1: that's really I like that, Yeah, that's the side of it.

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Speaker 1: And we started to you know, as one of the

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Speaker 1: founders of the Who's Your Tree Dog Alliance in Indiana

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Speaker 1: because hound hunters did not have a voice in Indiana,

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Speaker 1: UH largely misunderstood a lot of the laws that were

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Speaker 1: on the books and some still exists, and we're extremely inequated.

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Speaker 1: And with the tenure in the department at the time

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Speaker 1: we started to Who's Your Tree Dog Alliance, we were

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Speaker 1: able to effectively, you know, talk to talk to some

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Speaker 1: of the people that I worked with every day and

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Speaker 1: get some changes made that that opened up opportunities for

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Speaker 1: people to be involved in health sports in Indiana. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go I'm gonna go straight to a question

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Speaker 1: that that it is like the like the uh, sensational

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Speaker 1: question that like a ten year old that ask you,

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Speaker 1: did you ever were you ever in the have to

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Speaker 1: draw your gun or be in any kind of really serious,

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Speaker 1: crazy situation while you were game wardening? Yeah? I was

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Speaker 1: in three deadly four situations in twenty eight years. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, were they wildlife related or drug related? So

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Speaker 1: I know one was wildlife related, two were drug and

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Speaker 1: alcohol related. Okay, Um, conservation officers in Indiana are multitasks.

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Speaker 1: Were full or full law enforcement. Um, anything that you

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Speaker 1: could get pulled over on, uh, pulled over for in

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Speaker 1: the interstate of conservation officer could stop you in Indiana

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Speaker 1: and from traffic violation absolutely, Um, if it's a matter

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Speaker 1: and and most of the time it's a deal where

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Speaker 1: if it's a matter of public safety, you know, we'll

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Speaker 1: go ahead and do it. If we see a drunk

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Speaker 1: driver going down the road in front of us on

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Speaker 1: the interstate, uh, we've still taken an oath to to

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Speaker 1: protect the public and to let him go. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: three deadly four situations in in twenty eight years. One

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Speaker 1: was a deer camp situation where, um, some guys from

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Speaker 1: out of state were in our area and they had

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Speaker 1: some illegal deer. We had some information that they had

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Speaker 1: illegal deer and we were I was actually a canine

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Speaker 1: handler at the time. Oh yeah, so we ran. I

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Speaker 1: ran a multipurpose tracking dog, wildlife detection. She was a

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Speaker 1: Labrador Labrador retriever. So wouldn't it wouldn't lend it like

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Speaker 1: an attack typed off it was a drug sniffing dog. No,

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Speaker 1: it was not. It was not a protect and trained dog.

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Speaker 1: So we had information that we're illegal deer in this camp.

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Speaker 1: And uh the camp was behind the man's daughter's residence.

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Speaker 1: Uh so you've got some curdly issues there. But we

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Speaker 1: got permission to go up there and look around, and

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Speaker 1: we suspected that the deer was away from camp. So

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Speaker 1: I had my dog, got her out, and while I'm

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Speaker 1: getting a dog out, then she went and let out

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Speaker 1: her one and sixty pound bull Mastiff and automatically that

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Speaker 1: dog keyed in on my dog and was trying to

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Speaker 1: I mean when he wrapped the dog was standing thirty

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Speaker 1: feet away from me. See the dog, And I said,

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Speaker 1: you need to tie your dog up, and she ignored me.

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Speaker 1: She made a half effort to grab the dog. She

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Speaker 1: knew why she turned that dog like dog out and

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Speaker 1: she didn't know what it would do with it be

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Speaker 1: me or or my dog. But so the dog charges

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Speaker 1: us and in thirty dog wraps my left leg. As

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Speaker 1: soon as it's wrapping my left leg, I shoot the

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Speaker 1: shoot the dog. Have to kill their dog right in

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Speaker 1: their driveway. Knew I plowed it. UM At the same time,

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Speaker 1: Dad's standing over there and he picks up he pulled

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Speaker 1: by yourself. You have other people with you that My

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Speaker 1: partner was down, had another officer there. He was down

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Speaker 1: the hill, so he here's a gunshot and he's he's

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Speaker 1: coming up in his truck. At that point, Well, Dad

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Speaker 1: pulls a straight, straight knife out of his sheath and

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Speaker 1: so now I've got a dead dog and I've got

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Speaker 1: another threat. And he decided that wasn't very good idea,

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Speaker 1: so that that resolved itself. Uh. The other two were

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Speaker 1: drug related, had a The last one was a guy

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Speaker 1: that was strung out on meth and UH came in

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Speaker 1: the call came in as a as a suspicious vehicle

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Speaker 1: straining motorist type thing. When I arrived on scene, I

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Speaker 1: could tell he was wigged out and UH sitting right

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Speaker 1: in front of my friend's house in my community. Uh,

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Speaker 1: turned into a fight. The fight went to the ground

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Speaker 1: once the once he starts pulling on your gun, and

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Speaker 1: the fight changes. So he's trying to get my gun

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Speaker 1: out of my holster, and my friend's wife was standing

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Speaker 1: there and she pulled her own pistol and shot and

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Speaker 1: killed the guy. Wow. Yeah, so um, it's been a

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Speaker 1: little bit of excitement over years. So a civilian woman bystander, Yeah, yep,

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Speaker 1: shot him and killed him. Uh when when she shot,

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Speaker 1: all you guys are on the ground. Oh yeah, she

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Speaker 1: must have been a good shot. She was, she was capable,

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Speaker 1: familiar with her, with her was there. It was that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, everything was okay with that and with the law.

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Speaker 1: I mean like she was just you know. They they

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Speaker 1: tried to file several suits on that and wrongful deaths

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Speaker 1: boots and they named everybody from the governor down to

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Speaker 1: people that weren't even there to ex sheriffs and all

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Speaker 1: kinds of stuff in the community. Uh. And they tried

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Speaker 1: to sue her personally, and they weren't successful in doing that.

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Speaker 1: In fact, this last year, Indiana passed a UH an

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Speaker 1: Assistant Citizens of UH law, where it protects citizens that

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Speaker 1: are coming to the aid of law enforcement. So there

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Speaker 1: was actually legislation that came out that. Wow, that's intense, man, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was that was pretty intense. Like we like we said,

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Speaker 1: that was pretty intense. Yeah, yeah, I'd say so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: well so but you're not. I've got a buddy, Brent Reeves,

358
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Speaker 1: who's uh, he's he's still in law enforcement, but he's

359
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Speaker 1: not working in the field anymore, okay, And so he

360
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Speaker 1: says every time I say, how you doing, man, and

361
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Speaker 1: he says, I'm doing great. Nobody's shooting at me today.

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Speaker 1: So that that's that, Like, you know, his thing is

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Speaker 1: as long as nobody's shooting at me, it's a good day.

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Speaker 1: So nobody's shooting at you any Nope, No, not lately,

365
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Speaker 1: not lately anyway, didn't they didn't shoot at you in Arizona. No, No,

366
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Speaker 1: we got out of there without any without any shots

367
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Speaker 1: fired to anybody. Yeah, now that's always that's really interesting stuff.

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Speaker 1: Um you're now you're you say, were you a dog trainer?

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Speaker 1: So you trained this dog? Now this dog would have Hey,

370
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Speaker 1: you never told us what happened. Did Did they find

371
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Speaker 1: the deer? No, there was no deer in camp. And

372
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Speaker 1: after after that, the deal with the the mask iff

373
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Speaker 1: and everything going on. That became a secondary type thing.

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Speaker 1: There was some circumstantial evidence, but the deer was ultimately

375
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Speaker 1: I'm sure became a Lacey Act violation when it got

376
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Speaker 1: transported back to Ohio. Okay, yeah, okay, but you were

377
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Speaker 1: so you train that dog? Uh huh yeah I did. Wow.

378
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Speaker 1: So it was a drug dog wildlife detection. Wildlife detection,

379
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Speaker 1: and what that means is, uh, you know, if you

380
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Speaker 1: see a checkpoint, some of the things that we did,

381
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Speaker 1: like um um wally. You know, we would set up

382
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Speaker 1: a wildlife checkpoint and we'd catch people with coming back

383
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Speaker 1: with anywhere from two times a daily bag limit to

384
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Speaker 1: somebody that was selling them to a restaurant in Cincinnati.

385
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Speaker 1: You know. For for what dog could smell fish inside

386
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Speaker 1: of a cooler? Oh yeah, yeah, noble, did you tell

387
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Speaker 1: it which species of fish you needed? No? No, you

388
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Speaker 1: have to cross. You have to cross training. It's not

389
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Speaker 1: like any hit. I get, Well, you gotta have a

390
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Speaker 1: target species and you gotta do some some training on that.

391
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Speaker 1: But but it would have picked up if there had

392
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Speaker 1: been deer meat in there, it would have she would

393
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Speaker 1: have alerted. She would have alerted on that, just any

394
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Speaker 1: any kind of organic meats, not necessarily organic matter. That's

395
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Speaker 1: what I meant. She would not hit on beef, but

396
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Speaker 1: she would hit on deer. Oh yeah, Yeah, that's how

397
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Speaker 1: sensitive a dog's al fact critism is. And and you

398
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Speaker 1: just set them up. What was her que that you knew?

399
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Speaker 1: She was key and m She would scratch, She would

400
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Speaker 1: scratch at the at the cooler. Probably the best thing

401
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 1: that she was, you know, was for fire uh finding

402
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: firearms evidence like uh. And we did everything from uh,

403
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Speaker 1: murders to fish and wildlife cases. You know, so um

404
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: shotgun wad scattered somewhere out in a ten acre field, Like,

405
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Speaker 1: would she know if you went up to a truck

406
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Speaker 1: what you were looking for? So if she smelled burnt

407
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: shell casings, she would alert that. She would alert dear meat,

408
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 1: she would alert fish. So just anything so you might

409
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 1: dig in there and find some shotgun shells. And that's

410
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Speaker 1: not what you're worried about. No, she wouldn't. She wouldn't

411
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Speaker 1: hit on like a standard unloaded shotgun shell. Most of

412
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Speaker 1: the time the firearms stuff was done out in the field.

413
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Speaker 1: You know, we've got to put the pieces of the

414
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Speaker 1: case again. Yeah, where did he shoot the deer? Where

415
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Speaker 1: is the shell casing on the ground, you know, would

416
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Speaker 1: you just free caster? Just freecaster? And she she quarter

417
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Speaker 1: of the field and uh as soon as she found

418
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 1: up banks, she was on it. She could find firearms underwater,

419
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Speaker 1: no way, Oh yeah, yep, did it several times in

420
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: the water. She found out scent is traveling up through

421
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 1: the water and escaping at the surface of the water. Well,

422
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: you know, it comes up and then and then gun

423
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: oils and burnt powder residue come down, and then they

424
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 1: get lodged around the rock or along the edges, and

425
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: and uh she locates the firearm in the water like that.

426
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Speaker 1: That's crazy, one of the most interesting. I mean, it's

427
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: kind of kind of a dark story. But but we

428
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: were looking for a missing person one time and uh,

429
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: uh I found a found a spot on the edge

430
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: of this waterfall with a deep hole of water in it,

431
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: and there was a note and some sleeping pills set

432
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: up there, and uh I had her own a tracking

433
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: and a tracking harness, and she kept jumping in the

434
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: water and it is kind of warm, you know, And

435
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: the handler is always the weakest link. Okay, the dog

436
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 1: knows what it's doing, and the main rule of canine

437
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: handling is to trust your dog. She kept jumping. I

438
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: reel her in like a fish, and you know, I've

439
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: got policeman all the way, you know, I've got other

440
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: officers all the way around me, and here my dogs

441
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: wanted to swim, and uh, I'm like this stupid dog.

442
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: You know. The third time she jumped in. When she

443
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: jumped in, she she churned up the jacket of this

444
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: woman that was in this deep hole of water. And

445
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: one of the guys, like I said, they were, we

446
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: were by a waterfall. And when the other a deputy

447
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: was standing up on the ledge and he could see

448
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 1: down in there and goes, there's something in there. There's

449
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 1: a jacket, and sure enough. So it's amazing. It is

450
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: absolutely amazing what a dog is capable of smelling. You know,

451
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: when we smell when we walk into a house. Your

452
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: wife's cooking dinner and maybe she's cooking beef stew. You know,

453
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: we walk in, it's like, uh, beef stews. You know

454
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: we're gonna have beef stew. When the dog walks in there,

455
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: they smell water, they smoke, heir, it's a smell beef.

456
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: They smell pepper, you know, they their brains are wired

457
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: to uh discriminate different types of scent, and and that's

458
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: why we're capable of breaking our hounds from deer um

459
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: any of them one of game possums. Yeah, you know,

460
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: I'm focus that in. Yeah, man, that's incredible. And you

461
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: know the I heard somewhere on a podcast just recently

462
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: where they were saying that they were cadaver dogs that

463
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: were smelling stuff like thirty feet under the water, stuff

464
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 1: like that, which is just insane. Well, hey, this is

465
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: a good place for us to step into hound stuff,

466
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,239
Speaker 1: talking about noses and stuff, you know, as a as

467
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: a I'm not gonna say a new houndsman, because I

468
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: had hound, had it a long time. But there was

469
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 1: an experience I had with that dog sitting at your feet, uh,

470
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 1: when she was a pup. It was a misty, rainy

471
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: you know. I just remember the screen in on my

472
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: GPS was beaded with water, and uh it was cool

473
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: as a just kind of a mild fall night. But

474
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: I remember I was leading Fern out and she started

475
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: bobbing her head up and down, just you know how

476
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,120
Speaker 1: they do, just testing the wind. And I wasn't gonna

477
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 1: turn her loose right there. But and you know, she

478
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: was probably a year and a half old or something,

479
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: and I just said I might as well. So I

480
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: just turned her loose, and she went on a bee

481
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: line three hundred yards in a straight line and located,

482
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 1: never let out a bark on the ground, and located

483
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: and there was a coon of tree and I know

484
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: it was a layup coon. And I that absolutely, And

485
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: I mean there's lots of dogs that can do that

486
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, so it's not I can do that,

487
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: but I was just amazed. And I mean hounds do

488
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,479
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff all the time. But for whatever reason,

489
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: the way it all played out, it was just real

490
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: clear to me that from three d yards away she

491
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: smelled that coon sitting in a tree. Yeah, sent sent

492
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: a lot of times is a misunderstood even among houndsmen.

493
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: You know, um, we know how to operate GPS is,

494
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,479
Speaker 1: we know how to we know how to, uh do

495
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: a lot of technical things with social media. You know,

496
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: you can stream a live video from a tree right

497
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: into social media now and and uh, probably the most

498
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: misunderstood thing is the most important thing, and that's that

499
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: dog's nose. A lot of people figured out by by

500
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: just experience, but they still scent is such a technical

501
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: it's physiological. It's it's air currents effect that humidity affects it.

502
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: That's a big factor. Yeah. So you know, if you

503
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: get a day or a night where the wind didn't

504
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: blow the but it's real humid, that dog will never

505
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: smell that coon in that tree because the scent actually

506
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: gets suspended in the air where their nose can't read

507
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: ship and and you get a little breeze kicks up

508
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,479
Speaker 1: and boom, it drops it down there where they can

509
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: smell it. Now they can work with it. UM. I

510
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: just had this conversation in bearcamp about you know, hunting

511
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: on snow. You know a lot of times people get

512
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: confused and they think that that hounds are tracking. Hey

513
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: have to track in the track itself in deep snow,

514
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: because you'll see a hound stickies nose down in each track. Um.

515
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: A lot of times what's happened is that that body

516
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: that is a living organism and it sheds cells every second,

517
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: every second that it's alive, it's shed and cells. And

518
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: that's called scurf. When we exhale, say that again, scurf, scurf. Yeah,

519
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: it's called scurf. It's actually just shed cells that your

520
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: body's shedding microscopic shell so you can put you can

521
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: put hundreds of them under a microscope and see them. Um.

522
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: And we've actually done that is what scent is. That's

523
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: what it is. That's so that's coming off the animal

524
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: and it's interacting with its environment to give it what

525
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: what's called a scent picture for the dog. Um. So

526
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: as soon as it hits the ground, it's decomposing. And

527
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: like you can have several scent pictures from where we're

528
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: looking right now. You know, underneath these shade trees, it's

529
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: not gonna dehydrated as quick. So it's gonna be more

530
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: prevalent here underneath the shade trees, and it's gonna last longer.

531
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: But it's the same same pimp scent picture is gonna

532
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: gonna change when we get down there to your driveway

533
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: where the sun can hit it and it's dry, okay,

534
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: um wind can actually affect it and bank it, bank it,

535
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: you know, make a bank against vegetation. Um Um. In

536
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: the case of the snow track, like I was telling you,

537
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: you know that the wind comes along and it's like

538
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: anything else where is it gonna go. It's gonna go

539
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: on the deepest part. It's gonna flow to that hole

540
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: in the snow. Because it's an actual physical particle. It

541
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: has mass, absolutely, so it's gonna it's gonna drop, yep.

542
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: I mean it can be suspended. I mean, obviously scent

543
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: can be high, but it's gonna have a tendency if

544
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: there's no things pulling it up to drop that right, Yeah,

545
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah, So it's gonna deposit in those tracks.

546
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: You know, you get a dog, you get a jump

547
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: race where a bear or a lion or whatever just

548
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: takes off. You know, they're leaving a scent plume behind them.

549
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: So that's why those dogs lift their heads. I don't

550
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: even have to put their nose on the ground. Nope.

551
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: And you got a dog that is putting there. They're

552
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: smelling just like a tunnel of scent. Yep. Yeah, yep.

553
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: They're in that plume. It's called a plume coming off

554
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: of them. Plume yep. And they just boom they hit it.

555
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: These terms that you would have learned training training usman dogs.

556
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: This is not terminology out here. Houndsman say. Yeah, so

557
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: you know I started hound Honey when I was thirteen

558
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: years old, and I saw a lot of things over

559
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: the years, and I went through Canine Trainers School. Um,

560
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: I want to say I was probably mid to late

561
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: twenties when I started that, and when we started talking

562
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: about these things, I kept getting these flashbacks of different

563
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: things I'd seen as a houndsman. So I've been able

564
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: to take my experience and put it with my training

565
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: and then be able to talk about it and explain

566
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: what's going on. Um. There thousands of houndsmen out there

567
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: right now. They've learned all this without you know, dummy

568
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: like me. I need to be able to see it

569
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: in print, you know, and and look at it and

570
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: put my hands on it and touch it. You know,

571
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: There's thousands of houndsmen out there that that have figured

572
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: this out just on experience, experience, experiences being in the

573
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: woods and and being able to collect all this data

574
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: without any kind of system to it at all, you know,

575
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: kind of anecdotal data, just what they've experienced, what they've

576
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: come to conclusions on. You know. One of the one

577
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: of the examples I always used when I was I

578
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: was probably fifteen, I didn't have my driver's license yet,

579
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: and I was riding with an older houndsman and a

580
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: coon crossed the road in front of us. Not gonna

581
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: pup in the truck, you know, And what's every every

582
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: kid want to do? Turn loose? And the older houndsman says,

583
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: dog won't be able to run it. We mean it

584
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: won't be all around. We just saw across the road. Uh,

585
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: he goes, We're gonna go down to the next intersection.

586
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,439
Speaker 1: We'll turn around, we'll come back, and then we'll see

587
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 1: if you're if you're pup. We know right where it went.

588
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: And I've done it a hundred times. It was too

589
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: dumb to realize, you know, I couldn't figure out what

590
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: was going on. So you know, I'm thinking this is crazy.

591
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:29,479
Speaker 1: You know. We might as well turn this pup loose

592
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: now and we come back down the road, put the

593
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: hound on the ground, takes the track the right way,

594
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: ends up tree and the coon And I asked him

595
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: why why did that happen? And he said he said,

596
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I've done it enough that I

597
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: know it. You know, man, I wanted to interrupt you

598
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: so bad just to say that's been my experience and

599
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 1: I've never had anyone be able to tell me why.

600
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,879
Speaker 1: So I'm hoping you know why. Yeah, okay, So even

601
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: the a dog canines natural they're naturally instinct, is trying

602
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 1: to find their scent picture on the ground. You know,

603
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 1: if you look at the dog's natural tracking pose, then

604
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: it's nose on the ground or four or five inches off,

605
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: you know, somewhere down here. Their heads always canned down

606
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 1: at their shoulders and they're picking up that track. Well,

607
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,959
Speaker 1: even a raccoon with the scent plume that that scent

608
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: is suspended in the air until it has time to settle.

609
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: But what about the grounds, and it's leaving with pads

610
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: on the ground. Pads are very very minimal. It's not

611
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 1: leaving that much scent with actually what it's touching on

612
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: the ground, even us if you try to get it,

613
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: if you try to get it. Okay, So if you're

614
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: a trailing dog, to trail us out through there, he

615
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: wouldn't be trailing based upon what was on the bottom

616
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: of our shoes. Is that what you're telling me exactly so?

617
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: Or even the bottom of your feet or on your

618
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: hands when you when they do a swab, if you

619
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: do a DNA swab of yourself, where do they scrape

620
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 1: your mouth right inside your mouth? How's come. They don't

621
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: how it's come. They don't scrape your hands nothing there.

622
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: You're using them all the time. So the residual the

623
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: residual cells that are coming off your body are pretty

624
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: minimal right there. I mean, if you handle something long enough,

625
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: it'll it'll be there. But animals are walking on their

626
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: feet all the time, so those pads are tough, so

627
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of transfer there. But the animal exhaling, Uh,

628
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 1: he's brushing up against bruss Hair's all cells, you know,

629
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 1: So when they go through brush and knocks those cells

630
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 1: off of there, they become suspended in the air until

631
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: they settle. So you're you're telling me the reason they

632
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: can't correctly run that coon track? Now they can smell it,

633
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but they can't. Course, what's a pub do

634
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: When you turn loose on a on something fresh like that,

635
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 1: it usually goes the wrong way or just I mean,

636
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: I've seen them just running around the o their heads high,

637
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: trying to figure it out. Figured out, figured out, figured out.

638
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: Whereas if you wait five, ten, fifteen minutes, the scent

639
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 1: settles on the ground. But I can take it, man,

640
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of two exact scenarios with that dog right

641
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 1: there where we saw coon across the road and I

642
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: just dumped her out. She didn't treat either one of them.

643
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:21,720
Speaker 1: And and it sounds like I'm might to contradicted myself

644
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: because I talked about a jump race and the scent plume. Yeah,

645
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 1: so what happens there is a jump race, the adrenal

646
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: glands let loose. So now we've got a different type

647
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: of scent in the pictures. Okay, so you're saying they're

648
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: leaving more scent. Once an animal knows is being pursued,

649
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: then then they'll start dumping more scent. Something happens. Yeah,

650
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: and humans do the same thing. Now, I'm surprised in

651
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: the in the in the world of just wild animals

652
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: that there hasn't been some adaptation where an animal doesn't

653
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:03,439
Speaker 1: leave any scent like young fawns, young fallens, like very

654
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: little sent You know, a lot of times hounds will

655
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: walk right up on him and won't even know they're

656
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 1: there until and that's just not there. But some of

657
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 1: the old timers will tell you that, you know, they'll

658
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: see a coon out in the field or an animal

659
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: out in the field and and the comb will pick

660
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: up its scent as a natural defense. That's not right.

661
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: It's impossible to do. You just it's not like, oh,

662
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 1: there's a hound, I'm gonna pick up my scent and

663
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: run away. Oh yeah, yeah, that could be some of

664
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: that anecdotal evidence that the conclusion was totally wrong. Yeah,

665
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 1: he sees, you know, the houndsman sees that he's not

666
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: successful there. But but he he hasn't put it all

667
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 1: together yet. And that's the benefit. That's the benefit of

668
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: it I had as a as a trainer. You know,

669
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: once you understand that, I have you ever seen a

670
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: wind you have you've seen wind checkers hunters use if

671
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: you look at that wind checker, you know, the little

672
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: puff bottle, that's the thing your body. He's doing that

673
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 1: all the time. When you're at leasting scent all the

674
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: time and you get areas that are since saturated. You know,

675
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 1: if a bear lays down on the he's he's bedded down,

676
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: he's saturing that whole area was sent. Yeah. You know,

677
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 1: this reminds me of my pet peeve with white tail

678
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: hunters and big game hunters about human scent. Okay, you

679
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: know there's this whole market about scent control, and my dad, well,

680
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: I don't want to get into my dad's big into

681
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 1: sent control with white tails, and I get it. You

682
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 1: can't kill a white tail if he smells you. So

683
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: this has nothing to do with my dad. This has

684
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 1: to do with this idea that if your clothes are clean,

685
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: that a deer can't smell you. And what I always

686
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,760
Speaker 1: say is a deer could care less whether your clothes

687
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: are clean. He's smelling you. I mean, he's smelling the

688
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: human inside those clothes. And you're constantly emitting odor, You're

689
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: constantly uh you know, you're sweating, you're passing gas at

690
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: all or us is everybody uh exactly like so you know.

691
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: So it's just funny to me that people think, well,

692
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: if I've got a clean T shirt and underwear and

693
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,800
Speaker 1: gene or you know, hunting clothes that are sent free,

694
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 1: then the stair can't smell me. Not obviously it helps

695
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: because if your shirt smells bad, they can smell it.

696
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: But he's smelling you, man, right, And we did some

697
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: a lot of experimentation when when we first when I

698
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: first become a became a handler. Then it was when

699
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:34,760
Speaker 1: the big craze was for what did you find? I'm intrigued. Okay,

700
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 1: this is what we found. We would have people bring

701
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 1: their scent control clothes out activated the whole nine yards,

702
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: and we tracked them like they were naked, tracked them

703
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: just like they were wearing anything else. You know, it

704
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: made no difference. Um, A lot of that stuff is marketing.

705
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: But I also believe that, UM, when I put that

706
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 1: dog on the round, she's looking for one thing. She's

707
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: looking for human scent to track that hunter. Um, when

708
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 1: you have a deer walkthrough or an elk walk through,

709
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: they're thinking about a lot of stuff. You know. Part

710
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 1: of their attention is on predators. Part of their attention

711
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: it was on food. Part of their attention is on mating.

712
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: You know, a rutt and buck, he's got he doesn't

713
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: have food on his mind, but he does have predators

714
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: and he's got made you know, the breeding season on

715
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: his mind. So he's not totally focusing on that. So

716
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: you can get a get away with it. Maybe it's

717
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: not a totally unbiased test. We used a dog that's

718
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: trained to detect human odors. Is that what you're saying, right?

719
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: But but to think that you're going to eliminate your

720
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: your your human odor is the only way you can

721
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: do it is if you're in a self contained space suit. Yeah. Man,

722
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 1: that's that's interesting here. And you say that from your

723
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,479
Speaker 1: own personal observations, because I've heard I've heard that same

724
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,919
Speaker 1: story before. Um, you know. And perhaps sint killer could

725
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: reduce human odor so that if a deer came through,

726
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: he and not feel like the danger was as immediate

727
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: as if you didn't have it. Perhaps, And that's the

728
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,320
Speaker 1: only benefit that I see from it. And I've gotten

729
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: away and I haven't gone on too many scent rambles. Yeah,

730
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 1: it's I'm on a rabbit trail. I all I do

731
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 1: is hunt the wind for white tails. And I've killed

732
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: as many big white tails as I ever did when

733
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,240
Speaker 1: I was paying attention. I'm serious. I I almost ignore

734
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 1: it other than wind direction. Some of it's confidence too.

735
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 1: So if you get a guy that that you know,

736
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 1: in his deepest recesses of his soul, feels like that

737
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: he needs to take all these all these precautions on scent,

738
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: he feels more confident, makes him a better predator. And

739
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: exactly so some of that is is got some some

740
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: intrinsic values. I guess, Yes, then there's something true to that.

741
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: And that's the way my dad is my dad. It's

742
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: so ritualistic with the way he hunts, and he had

743
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: to be to be successful. And he was a really

744
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: successful still is a really successful bow hunter for where

745
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: he lives and what he's trying to do, and that's

746
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: just part of his routine, you know. And and you

747
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,439
Speaker 1: took you take that away from him. And he didn't

748
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: even want to go hunting, like he's like, what's the point.

749
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:15,919
Speaker 1: So it's like, hey, go ahead and do all that.

750
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 1: That's great. I'm not going to I'm just gonna go

751
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 1: hunt the wind and uh and and you know, I'm

752
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: sure that there's times when anyway, that's a different story.

753
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: It's fascinating though. Yeah, good hounds will hunt the wind too,

754
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 1: you know. Um tell me something else. I mean to

755
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 1: me that how a hound uses his nose? Can you

756
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: tell me something else about that? That would I mean,

757
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,959
Speaker 1: every story that you've told and every it's been really good.

758
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: Um man, I don't know. I mean, you've got you've

759
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: got the Well, let me ask you a question. What's

760
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 1: the ideal condition for a hound and what's the worst condition.

761
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: The worst conditions for a hound is what you would

762
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: find in Southwest United States. You've got. We just interviewed

763
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: Chris Todd for the Houndsman XP podcast. He was talking

764
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 1: about he lives in Kingman, Arizona. It's desert and it

765
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: is extremely dry. They had a hunter days straight last

766
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 1: year with no rain. Um. Those are tough conditions to

767
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: track in. If you're catching game in those conditions, you

768
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: know you're not hunting pot liquors. The most amazing thing

769
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: is though you take a hound from the Southwest and

770
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: you'll blow his mind in the Midwest with the amount

771
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: of moisture and and really do good. Sometimes it blows

772
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: your mind. It's center. You know, it's too much scent,

773
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 1: it's overloaded. UM. I would like to try it sometime

774
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: and see. But you'll hear you'll hear houndsmen talk about

775
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: you know your dogs wouldn't be able to do that here.

776
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: I took my dogs up there and they weren't able

777
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 1: to do it. Northern Indiana, southern Michigan, there's no no.

778
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 1: It can be uf at times, but there's a lot

779
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: of con there and we we treat a lot of

780
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: coon up in that country. I live in the southern

781
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: part of the state, but you'll take a dog from

782
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,720
Speaker 1: someplace where there aren't as many animals on the ground.

783
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: The population is in and as high, and they just

784
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: don't know how to they don't know how to handle

785
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: that scent overload. You know, it just blows your mind. Um,

786
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: but the most so tell me the sides behind why

787
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 1: arid conditions are bad. Okay, so that we could we

788
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 1: could recreate the same thing out here in your driveway

789
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 1: if I if just like on my concrete getting pounded

790
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: by the sun. So so you know, the scent would

791
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,879
Speaker 1: if a coon or whatever animal ran down this gravel road.

792
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: The Bear Honey magazine podcast, let's say it's a bear. Okay,

793
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: that's where it comes, ye, Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. A

794
00:45:56,200 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 1: bear goes ripping down your road, gravel road, I need

795
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 1: my dog to run that bear. I've got bear tracks

796
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: in the road. So I'm gonna look at several things.

797
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,479
Speaker 1: I'm gonna look about, like the canopy in that area,

798
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 1: is it shaded? Because again that that scent is made

799
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 1: up of individual cells that are deposited on the ground. Uh.

800
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: If you take if you take uh a grape and

801
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: lay it out there on the ground in the direct sunlight,

802
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 1: eventually it's going to shrivel up and become a raisin, right, Okay,

803
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: So that cell that your body is shedding when you're exhaling,

804
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: it still has moisture in it, and when it falls

805
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: onto arid conditions, it automatically starts dehydrating. Okay. So so

806
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 1: there's our analogy grape to raisin. That's what the particles do.

807
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 1: And a raisin is harder to smell than a grape. Yep,

808
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: if you cut a grape open and you smell it,

809
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: we can smell it. You tear a raising apart and

810
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: it doesn't smell like a grape anymore. You know, has

811
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,839
Speaker 1: very little older at all. So you know, the track

812
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 1: runs down through there, and and it's on the on

813
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: the direct sunlight laying in in rock. It's so microscopic

814
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: though that that that will leave them blow up under rocks.

815
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 1: So even a piece of gravel, you know, shaded under

816
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: that piece of gravel, it may rain last night. There's

817
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: a little bit of moisture under there. The dog there, Yeah,

818
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 1: so you'll see a dog picking his way down through here,

819
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,399
Speaker 1: and you're like, I just saw the bear run through

820
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: there forty five minutes ago, and my dog can't run it.

821
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 1: It's because he's got to figure out where that scent

822
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: is to pick his way down through it. You know,

823
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: you get a shower on that a light shower on

824
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 1: that same same scenario, and they'll run it like they're

825
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:45,280
Speaker 1: on fire. Now, okay, talk to me about this. I've

826
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: I've also heard and have experienced high humidity being one

827
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 1: of the worst enemies of scent. So this would be

828
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: the opposite end of the spectrum. Because so explained to

829
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,320
Speaker 1: me that. And if you agree with that, yeah, because

830
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,720
Speaker 1: since super high and like if it's eighty five degrees

831
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: and humidity, I mean, I found my dogs struggle. So

832
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 1: there's a lot of moisture in there. What are the

833
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 1: air currents doing? Is just dead? If it's that high,

834
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 1: it's just dead. So we're dealing with microscopic micro organisms here.

835
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:24,839
Speaker 1: They're making this scent picture. Since every living being, we've

836
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 1: got a scent plume coming off of us. It's it

837
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 1: gets suspended in the air like the neat. Your body

838
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 1: has a natural thermal on it, believe it or not.

839
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 1: You know, you're walking through a world that's eighty five degrees,

840
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: your body is ninety eight point six. Your body is

841
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: creating its own weather um, so it's pluming off your

842
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: body and it moves up, so the majority of your

843
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:51,240
Speaker 1: scent is being deposited off of the top of your head. Yeah,

844
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 1: not off you know, not from the scalp, but it's

845
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 1: just thermal movement up and it's pluming off the top

846
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 1: of your head. Uh. We're like those little pub for

847
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 1: bottles walking around every where we go. So when you

848
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,320
Speaker 1: have high humidity, the moisture in the air is heavier

849
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: than the micro organism, so it can't move down. You

850
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: get a little bit of a breeze or an air

851
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: current kick up. You know. It's just it's like a

852
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:20,399
Speaker 1: it's like a an air current or a whirlpool type

853
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: effect on that and it will deposit it on the ground.

854
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: It will deposit it on vegetation. That makes sense, you

855
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: know it. It seems like the humidity just kind of

856
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: like disperses the scent. And that would be just totally

857
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: anecdotal in the sense that just seeing what I've been Uh,

858
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 1: I remember a couple of times when she was young,

859
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: I turned around on what had to have been a

860
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: hot track because I saw wet coon tracks on rocks.

861
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 1: I mean, just like that coon. And this is a

862
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: hot summer, Okay, it is in the wintertime, hot summer,

863
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 1: and I mean just struggled to just just I mean,

864
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: she's just moving around, moving around. When you were watching her,

865
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 1: what were what was your natural tendency was she? Where

866
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 1: was she looking for? She was trying to put her

867
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 1: nose on the ground, right down on the ground, because

868
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: she did have a little bit of transfer onto the rocks. Okay,

869
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: so she knows you're something here, Yeah, but without an

870
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: air current or time for that to sift down through

871
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 1: the the atmospheres right there. We're talking micro atmospheres. We're

872
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: not talking you know, just micro she's looking for that.

873
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 1: She she can pick up part of the scent out

874
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: of those wet coon tracks because there is some transfer,

875
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: but the majority of the scent coming off of that

876
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,399
Speaker 1: animal just hasn't settled where she can track it yet

877
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,720
Speaker 1: where she naturally wants to try to find that track.

878
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 1: What about best case scenario? What's the best trailing conditions?

879
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 1: Temperature and moisture. I personally like hunting um with a

880
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:54,760
Speaker 1: little bit of a breeze, humidity above um, but below below.

881
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 1: Part of that is from our personal comfort. Uh but

882
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:04,319
Speaker 1: uh um, you know directs if you're me, is there

883
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 1: much difference between like sixty degrees and thirty degrees. I

884
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: mean in the Dogs of Elzy to trail that it

885
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 1: really probably wouldn't be would there not a whole lot.

886
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: It's more it's more dependent on the amount of sunlight

887
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: that's hitting that track, the mount of moisture in the ground. Yeah,

888
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: it's it's like a big picture type thing that you've

889
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 1: got to dissect the different parts. So you know, you

890
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 1: get into an area an overcast day the where and

891
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: it's there's some moisture in the ground and it's a

892
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: pretty good day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, going

893
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: back to your your like a lion track in the snow,

894
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 1: I had a guy use a good analogy, and I

895
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 1: like analogies like yours earlier. Uh. He told me that,

896
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 1: you know, these dogs can trail lines in the snow

897
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 1: that are sometimes days old, right pretty you know, they

898
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 1: can smell it, and he said it's like refrigerator. You know,

899
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,720
Speaker 1: going back to this idea that these are particles falling

900
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:08,839
Speaker 1: off that are like organic matter basically, I mean they're

901
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: I guess there can be vaporized in the sense they're

902
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 1: small enough particles, but I mean it would be like

903
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: putting something in a refrigerator and it preserves it. Would

904
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: you agree with that? He's like, so the snow like

905
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 1: cold like preserves that scent and heat would cause it

906
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 1: to deteriorate, dry out, decompose, just go away. So you

907
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:32,439
Speaker 1: know his he was saying that, you know, cold kind

908
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 1: of preserves that. But and it's it's you know, you

909
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 1: get sent in the bottom of a line track or

910
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 1: a bottom of a coon track or whatever track of

911
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 1: human track. It doesn't matter. You know that those microorganisms

912
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 1: or the air is gonna naturally move them into the

913
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 1: lowest points. You know. Um, it's like dust in your house.

914
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: You know, your your return vents are going to be

915
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:57,919
Speaker 1: full of dust, and uh, they'll find those, they'll find

916
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,759
Speaker 1: those low points. But yeah, it's it's an amazing thing.

917
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 1: There's a couple of books that I posted on social

918
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 1: media that their technical reads. But anybody that's looking to

919
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,800
Speaker 1: understand what's going on with a with a dog's nose

920
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: read them. Your eyes will be able. What are the books?

921
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: One is called Scent and the Sinning Dog by Richard

922
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:22,359
Speaker 1: syrotuch Um, and it's just a thin read, but it's

923
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 1: highly technical. Don't recommend trying to read it before you're

924
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: going to bed, because you'll read about half a page

925
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 1: and fall asleep and it it will take you a year

926
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 1: to read it. Uh. The other one is called Scent

927
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 1: by per Sal and that's kind of a big picture

928
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 1: type thing where it really really explains the physiology and

929
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 1: and it's got a lot of pictures which are good

930
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 1: for me pictures yep, nice big pictures. So uh you

931
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 1: can to to dry reads, but but definitely beneficial to

932
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:02,839
Speaker 1: understanding environment effects and different things on set. Yeah, that's

933
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:07,319
Speaker 1: fascinating stuff. Um, hey, tell me about the hounsing XP

934
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 1: podcast we've got, uh we you guys have you guys

935
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 1: have produced how many episodes? Now we're gonna be releasing

936
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:19,919
Speaker 1: number eighteen, I believe a week from monday. Yeah, so

937
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 1: just tell me a little bit about it. And yeah,

938
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 1: the Hounsman XP podcast was was something that Steve Fielder

939
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 1: and I have developed together. Uh, we're trying to showcase

940
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: XP stands for extreme performance and we're trying to showcase.

941
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: You do realize that the word extremely spelled with an E, right,

942
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: I do, but for marketing purposes it starts with an X.

943
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 1: So had I had to I had to, no problem.

944
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 1: I'm sorry yeah, the EP podcast housen EP. Now you're

945
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 1: gonna market that. Steve Fielders the one that camp with that.

946
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 1: He's a He's a marketing genius. Right on pause. We

947
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,360
Speaker 1: had to have a few conversations about the name, but

948
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 1: I actually came up with the name. I'm joking this

949
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,720
Speaker 1: sarcasm against Steve. Steve. Steve is a great, great, Steve

950
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 1: is a marketing gives Steve a hard time. I'm starting

951
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 1: to give Steve a hard time on a few things.

952
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: I think he appreciates it. Yeah, he does. He likes

953
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 1: the attention and uh, but so I had the passion

954
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:31,240
Speaker 1: to do it and understood the I'm really concerned about

955
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 1: the future hound sports in the United States, and um,

956
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:40,279
Speaker 1: nobody is talking about how we're gonna save this thing.

957
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 1: And hunting in general is under fire across the board,

958
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 1: and that's why we started the Hoosier Treat Dog Alliance.

959
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,840
Speaker 1: And you know, Steve's been involved in several fights and

960
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 1: over his over his years with the registries on everything

961
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: from tethering legislation to out and out bans on on

962
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: first who does certain game animals with hounds. So we

963
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 1: both got experienced there. Um, but Steve and I have

964
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 1: known each other for for several years. We walked worked

965
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 1: on on several projects together that um um for the

966
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 1: Plot Dogs, Plot Dogs Championship and and just a lot

967
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 1: of so we knew we could we could work together

968
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,439
Speaker 1: if if it wasn't for Steve. Steve knows everybody, Steve

969
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 1: knows UM. He's got a lot of life experience with hounds,

970
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: and he's a he's a recognizable name. He's like um,

971
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,240
Speaker 1: you know too. He's just a well known guy in

972
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 1: in the hound sports. And he has a knack for

973
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 1: being able if he meets if he was here and

974
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 1: he was meeting you today, ten years from now, Steve

975
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 1: Fielder would remember the Bare Hunting Magazine T shirt you

976
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 1: were wearing, the blue jeans and your boots. You know,

977
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 1: he just has he has an incredible memory for detail

978
00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: and he's a great storyteller. And uh so I needed

979
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:06,840
Speaker 1: somebody um like that for me to be successful, and

980
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: he needed somebody like me. Because Steve's retired, you know,

981
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 1: he's joked about it on the podcast before. You're working

982
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: me too hard, you know, Um, But Steve still has

983
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 1: a deep passion for hounds and hound sports and stuff.

984
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 1: And and we're just trying to bring bring a message

985
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: showcasing the most extreme hounds when we're we want to

986
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 1: we're we're talking about things, um for hound nutrition. If

987
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 1: you get on the web and and you look at

988
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 1: at healthcare veterinarian care for dogs, there's all kinds of

989
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 1: homebrew vet care stuff going on. So we've actually put

990
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 1: a real life veterinarian who's a hound. That was a

991
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 1: good episode and and talked about some technical things about hounds,

992
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 1: you know. Um, So we're just trying to get a

993
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 1: we want to be entertaining, we want to be informative.

994
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 1: So a job is to preserve, protect, and promote hound sports. Yeah,

995
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 1: so you are producing a weekly podcast and it's anywhere

996
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: from hound breeders for big game hunting, coon dogs, veterinarians, uh, outfitters,

997
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 1: anybody that's involved in the dog sports is is fair

998
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 1: game to be on the podcast. And uh, I'll say that.

999
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 1: You know, you kind of get a idea on some

1000
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 1: of these podcasts of how they're being received by how

1001
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 1: many reviews they have on iTunes. You can you can

1002
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 1: almost look at that and like tell quite a bit

1003
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 1: about a podcast. If people are engaged enough to go

1004
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:40,440
Speaker 1: and write a review and you guys have well over

1005
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 1: a hundred reviews right now, which for a new podcast

1006
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 1: is great. Yeah, we're doing we're doing very well. We're

1007
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 1: our fans have been very engaged. They've been hungry for

1008
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 1: a for a podcast that that talks about their passions.

1009
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, we get messages to say, when

1010
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 1: are you going to do something on running dogs or

1011
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 1: when are you going to do something on this? And

1012
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 1: and we try to take in a lot of different

1013
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 1: genres of of hound hunting. But the most important thing

1014
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 1: to remember, it doesn't matter if if a guy's chasing

1015
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 1: deer with his hounds in Virginia or I'm chasing coon's

1016
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 1: with my hounds in the in the Upper Midwest. The

1017
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 1: common thread there is houndsman, you know, being passionate about

1018
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: hounds and hound hunting. Yeah, and and we want to

1019
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 1: we want to set the stage. We want to Uh,

1020
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 1: hounsman haven't been good about self promotion, you know. And

1021
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 1: and so it's a it's the little pr problem. Yeah,

1022
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 1: it's the low hanging fruit on the on the tree

1023
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 1: right now. So there needs to be work up and

1024
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: down the chain there. Um, you know, your your dear

1025
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 1: your deer hunters your ungulants. Big game hunters need to

1026
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 1: realize that if the antis are successful of taking away

1027
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 1: hound hunting and bear baiting, that their sports next, truly

1028
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 1: is they're just working their way up to change. So

1029
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:09,520
Speaker 1: that's why we need to support of the from you know,

1030
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 1: uh accomplished deer hunter. Yeah, exactly. So what we've been saying, Chris,

1031
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 1: is we've been using the hashtag hashtag guard the gate

1032
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 1: and the ideas that bear hunting and and we can

1033
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 1: incorporate hound hunting is the gate for the anti hunting

1034
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 1: community to enter into. Our spirit is the low hanging fruit.

1035
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:36,440
Speaker 1: And we've and what you're doing and what we're doing

1036
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 1: is we're creating we're creating a new narrative for hound

1037
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 1: hunting and we're not ashamed of it. And this is

1038
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:47,960
Speaker 1: an ancient and honorable thing that we're a part of

1039
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 1: in modern times and we've got nothing to be ashamed of.

1040
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 1: And we and it's a it's a scientific management tool,

1041
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:59,440
Speaker 1: it's a it's a tradition, it's a it's a sound

1042
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 1: it's a sound sport effective way to gather wildlife related

1043
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 1: commodities for for eating and for having bear hides. And

1044
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 1: you know it so we you know. I heard somebody

1045
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 1: say yesterday, a guy in the how community that I respect,

1046
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 1: and he said, when people begin to be uh, how

1047
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:27,080
Speaker 1: did he say it? How do you say it? He said?

1048
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 1: He said, basically, when people begin to be persecuted. If

1049
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 1: you if you back down, the persecution just gets even harder.

1050
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 1: We've we you have to stand up, and you have

1051
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 1: to you have to not be I don't know. And

1052
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 1: that's what we're doing. We're creating a narrative for houndsman

1053
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 1: and uh and and trying to recruit the the support

1054
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: of guys that may never hound hunt because and this

1055
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:55,760
Speaker 1: is the way I say it always, is that we've

1056
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 1: got nothing left to give the anti hunting community in

1057
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, they've taken everything that we can afford to give.

1058
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 1: So anything given to them at this point is a

1059
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 1: detriment to the whole of hunting. So if you're an

1060
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 1: alk hunter that lives in the West that never cares

1061
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 1: about dogs, if you're a deer hunter in the South

1062
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 1: that doesn't like people running dogs, I mean, you're gonna

1063
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 1: just have to get over it. If you really you

1064
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 1: want to support the macro movement of modern hunting in

1065
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 1: in modern times and uh. And so that's where our messages, Hey,

1066
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 1: let's come together, well because we're we're we are the

1067
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 1: It's not like two sides. It's not like you're a

1068
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 1: hound hunter and you're not a big game hunter. I

1069
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 1: mean you're a deer hunter and you're I mean you're

1070
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:47,200
Speaker 1: doing all that stuff too. And and the thing that

1071
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 1: we want to do for the hound community is inspire

1072
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 1: them to to build effective state organizations. UM, and do

1073
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 1: that in a way where they can go to Natural

1074
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 1: Resources committee meetings and and talk intelligently about why hound

1075
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 1: hunting is important or why hunting in general is important. UM.

1076
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:17,920
Speaker 1: And right now, you know, just because your grandpa hunted

1077
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 1: and UM, it's just not it's not important. You know,

1078
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 1: that's not gonna cut it. You gotta be able to

1079
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 1: talk about the North American model for wildlife conservation. You

1080
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 1: need to be able to talk about Um. It's like

1081
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 1: the hunt that I'm returning from Sportsman for heroes. You know,

1082
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 1: we're taking America's heroes to the mountains and giving them

1083
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:44,680
Speaker 1: an opportunity, uh, not to kill an animal. You know,

1084
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 1: you see him. You see a transformation from the time

1085
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 1: these guys getting camp to the time that they leave that.

1086
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:54,040
Speaker 1: We have one veteran in camp that was he told

1087
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 1: me he's like I was at the low point in

1088
01:03:55,920 --> 01:04:00,040
Speaker 1: my life and we got him away from all of

1089
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:04,440
Speaker 1: that through that organization. So now you can you have

1090
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 1: something that's that's legitimate. Why is hound Honey important? We're

1091
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 1: taking veterans honey? Why is hound Honey important? Because Houndsman

1092
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:16,240
Speaker 1: have raised several million dollars for St. Jude's Children Hospital

1093
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:19,240
Speaker 1: FID leukemia. Who's gonna say no to that? You know,

1094
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 1: just because uh, you know, us being able to sit

1095
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 1: there and say, well, we've been doing it for two

1096
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 1: thousand years. Yeah, it's not good enough anymore. No, we've

1097
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 1: got to We've got to we've got to give politicians

1098
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:36,000
Speaker 1: something that they can't say no to. Yeah, the bureaucrats,

1099
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah. Well, hey, I appreciate what you guys

1100
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 1: are doing over there, and uh, and it's a worthy

1101
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 1: cause and and you guys are doing good. I appreciate it. Clay,

1102
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 1: You've been a big help to us too. I just

1103
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 1: want to tell every all your fans that you know,

1104
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 1: when we were getting started, I bugged you in and uh,

1105
01:04:54,960 --> 01:05:00,240
Speaker 1: I appreciate your assistance. Yeah, it's rolling well that we

1106
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 1: we need guys like you, guys in this in this

1107
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 1: in this sphere for sure. Man, we're coming up on

1108
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 1: We've been relling for an hour, Chris. That's the thing

1109
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 1: you get. You know, you contact guests and you tell

1110
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:14,400
Speaker 1: them how long you're gonna talk to him. It's like,

1111
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk for a whole hour, and then bang,

1112
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 1: you know, they're like, well, really, do you have any

1113
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 1: closing thoughts? I'll just uh, you know if you want to.

1114
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:26,320
Speaker 1: If you want to, you can go into the Apple

1115
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 1: podcast or any podcast venue and subscribe to the The

1116
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 1: Houndsman XP podcast. We do have um any subscriptions that

1117
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 1: that's kind of what drives the market, uh in the

1118
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:40,919
Speaker 1: success of podcasting, Uh to be able to go out

1119
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 1: and and uh give your sponsors something that they can

1120
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:49,240
Speaker 1: some data. So that's always beneficial and and uh you

1121
01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:52,480
Speaker 1: can find us on social media at The Houndsman XP

1122
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:55,920
Speaker 1: podcast and jump on board even if even if you're

1123
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 1: not a hound hunter, you know, find out what it's about.

1124
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:03,720
Speaker 1: Educate yourself, don't make don't make assumptions. Um my personal

1125
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 1: Before I started watching Bear Horizons, I had zero interests

1126
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:12,480
Speaker 1: in hunting black bear over bait. But the way you

1127
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:15,560
Speaker 1: delivered the message, in the way that that it was presented,

1128
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 1: it's like, no, that looks you know, I might want

1129
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 1: to try that, I might want to do that gave

1130
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:26,200
Speaker 1: me a whole new perspective on on bait, honey, right on. Well,

1131
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:29,080
Speaker 1: I hope this was a podcast listener that's been calling

1132
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:30,920
Speaker 1: our phone the last three minutes. I don't know if

1133
01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 1: people could hear that, but the phone's been ringing off

1134
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 1: the hooks. If that was you, if you're listening to

1135
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:38,920
Speaker 1: this podcast and that was you that called, We're sorry

1136
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:42,919
Speaker 1: we didn't pick up um now. Thanks, thanks for coming,

1137
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 1: Chris and Man. I hope you have a safe travel

1138
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: back home. But hey, keep the wild places wild because

1139
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 1: that's where the bears live. And you follow your grounds

1140
01:06:52,280 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 1: and I'll follow them on that's right. That the time

1141
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:04,880
Speaker 1: they would