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Speaker 1: Joining in this episode are two people who have been

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Speaker 1: involved in basketball at the elite level. One is Glenn Farrello,

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Speaker 1: one of the top high school basketball coaches in the country.

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Speaker 2: And I think the most important part of that decision

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Speaker 2: making a part. You've talked about life skills and the

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Speaker 2: bigger picture is you want to try to find a

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Speaker 2: way to not just talk at that and I talk

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Speaker 2: to when I give them some information that they could

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Speaker 2: actually think about instead of being another adult telling them

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Speaker 2: what to do or you know, the pitfalls of life.

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Speaker 2: We have a standing saying here of standards over a

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Speaker 2: femis right and kids get so kind of in the

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Speaker 2: feeling because sometimes the decision making fun is just a

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Speaker 2: eye product of that on the court and off the court.

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Speaker 1: Also joining us in this episode is Travis Garrison. Travis

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Speaker 1: was a term from two thousand and two to two

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Speaker 1: thousand and six.

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Speaker 3: You know, some of the coaches gave me video on

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Speaker 3: a biased and just saying his game and how good

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Speaker 3: he was, you know that just how he was, how

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Speaker 3: his church was, and how he was as a person.

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Speaker 3: It just took a world of his own and that

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Speaker 3: decision just it had a ripple effect throughout so much

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Speaker 3: even till this day of how that one choice affected

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Speaker 3: not just my Horner court situation, but how things happened

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Speaker 3: off the court as well. There was times I wanted

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Speaker 3: to give up. That's how bad it was at times,

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Speaker 3: because it seemed like I could never get over the hump.

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Speaker 3: I'm trying to I'm trying to make up for what

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Speaker 3: I did wrong, but people would't giving me an opportunity

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Speaker 3: to see. So it was times like what was the

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Speaker 3: point of still being here? And it's like I'm a

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Speaker 3: competitor in the sense I don't like losing. So it's

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Speaker 3: more so like, Okay, I'm not going I'm not giving

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Speaker 3: up on life because I still have to live. I

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Speaker 3: have kids and I have an obligation to do so

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Speaker 3: how can I turn this thing around?

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Speaker 1: In this segment of led Bias A Mixed Legacy, Episode

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Speaker 1: two of Epilogue, the importance of making the right decisions.

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Speaker 1: This is Dave. I'm executive producer of this podcast series.

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Speaker 1: In this episode, we feature two people connected to basketball

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Speaker 1: and the legacy of len bias who have faced many

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Speaker 1: challenging decisions. In our first functional epilogue episode, we told

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Speaker 1: the stories of two students who used a number of

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Speaker 1: tools that helped them make an effective decision. For our

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Speaker 1: second functional Epilog episode of the series, we will expand

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Speaker 1: the decision making topic to involve basketball. After all, that

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Speaker 1: makes sense in a podcast series that focuses on the

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Speaker 1: legacy of len bias. We are using the tragic story

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Speaker 1: of bias as a teaching tool to better understand the

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Speaker 1: importance of making the right decision. Joining us in this episode,

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Speaker 1: as he did in the first epilogue, is Chris Bettsler,

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Speaker 1: the executive director of the Decision Education's Foundation. Chris is

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Speaker 1: a respected authority on the topic and he is a

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Speaker 1: national leader in the movement of decision education. The def

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Speaker 1: is a promotional partner in this podcast series. Chris will

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Speaker 1: be our point person for explaining the principles of effective

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Speaker 1: decision making. There is so much more to making the

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Speaker 1: right decision than simply telling people that you need to

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Speaker 1: make the right decision. Also joining in this episode are

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Speaker 1: two people who have been involved in basketball at the

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Speaker 1: elite level. One is Glenn Farrello, one of the top

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Speaker 1: high school basketball coaches in the country. His teams at

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Speaker 1: Paul the Sixth High School in Fairfax, Virginia have repeatedly

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Speaker 1: finished among the top twenty in the country over the

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Speaker 1: last two decades. Also joining us in this episode is

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Speaker 1: Travis Garrison. Travis grew up in the same county as Lenbias,

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Speaker 1: Prince George's county. Like Lenn, he played basketball at Maryland.

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Speaker 1: Travis was a terp from two thousand and two to

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Speaker 1: two thousand and six. He has overcome two assault convictions

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Speaker 1: and now is using his platform to help people make

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Speaker 1: better decisions with his program called The First Make the

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Speaker 1: Right Choice.

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Speaker 2: From the Streets of Land.

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Speaker 1: Few professions require as many in the moment decisions in

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Speaker 1: pressure situations as coaching in athletics, and one person very

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Speaker 1: familiar with those types of decisions is Glenn Farrello. Glenn

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Speaker 1: just finished his fifteenth season as head coach of the

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Speaker 1: boys basketball team at Paul the Sixth High School in Fairfax, Virginia.

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Speaker 1: Thirteen of Glenn's teams have been ranked in the top

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Speaker 1: twenty in the United States. In the Washington, DC area,

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Speaker 1: his teams have been ranked number one three times. More

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Speaker 1: than eighty of those he coached have played college basketball

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Speaker 1: and four have NBA experience. Glenn joins US today to

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Speaker 1: discuss the challenges of decision making related to coaching sports,

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Speaker 1: and we feel this portion of the episode will be helpful,

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Speaker 1: especially to all coaches who deal with the range of

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Speaker 1: decisions on a daily basis. And Glenn, before we get

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Speaker 1: started on decisions, you've made something a little timely. I

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Speaker 1: think you had four of your ex players in the

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Speaker 1: final four. Tell us who they were and what you

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Speaker 1: remember them as playing that Paul.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely, We're going to say Brandon Slater was

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Speaker 2: a starter for Villanova, Jamie Roach, and Trevor Keels with Duke,

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Speaker 2: and then Anthony Harris with North Carolina. So those are

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Speaker 2: the four that were able to progress and make us

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Speaker 2: all proud, and they were actually part of a twenty

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Speaker 2: eighteen team that was a top ten in the country

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Speaker 2: and had a tremendous season for us here.

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Speaker 1: It's got to feel good as a coach. Developed as

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Speaker 1: young players and now you see sort of the fruits

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Speaker 1: of those labors.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, and they're all just wonderful kids too, and

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Speaker 2: how they conduct themselves, and I think that's a big

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Speaker 2: part of you know, our discussion about some decision making.

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Speaker 2: I think they've all made some really smart decisions of

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Speaker 2: how they've handled things and how the people around them

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Speaker 2: and their own value systems, because I think that plays

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Speaker 2: a big parton We always talk to our players about

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Speaker 2: their own value systems. We can talk about culture and identity,

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Speaker 2: uh any organization you're be part of, and we're going

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Speaker 2: to try to impress upon on the important of things

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Speaker 2: that own individual value system has got to be strong

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Speaker 2: and they get those they have to make those decisions

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Speaker 2: on a daily basis.

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Speaker 1: Well. Values will be a key component of as we

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Speaker 1: talked about decision making, and it's one of the six

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Speaker 1: elements of the of the decision chain. And before we

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Speaker 1: get into those decisions, I wanted to first get your

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Speaker 1: thoughts and perspectives if you have any what you remember

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Speaker 1: about lend Bias. Did his story impact you or any

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Speaker 1: of your players, anything like that that you can recall

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Speaker 1: about Land and related to your experience.

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Speaker 2: One of the biggest things I thought that happened for

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Speaker 2: as I moved from Ohio to Maryland the Silver Spring

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Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety three. So I think it was very

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Speaker 2: impactful for me as as a young coach to hear

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Speaker 2: the stories about Let's past that's when I started in

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Speaker 2: the business, and to the impact on my players as

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Speaker 2: time went along, I thought was very important they kind

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Speaker 2: of progressed as young young men. These kids nowadays, they

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Speaker 2: don't get enough credit for understanding their history of resport, right,

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Speaker 2: And because there's so much on social media, we talk

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Speaker 2: about the negativity of social media. I always try to

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Speaker 2: spin it and talk about the positivity too, and how

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Speaker 2: much they can learn and have access to information. So

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Speaker 2: the kids are much more understanding of past players. So

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Speaker 2: what's really interesting about Len's story is the cautionary tale

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Speaker 2: to it. The kids don't gloss over that. They see

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Speaker 2: the importance of that and how it is cut short.

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Speaker 2: This is a story that has back then was the

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Speaker 2: important from from discussing the real concerns and the dangerous

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Speaker 2: that that come with you be putting yourself in it

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Speaker 2: in this type of position, and that has not changed

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Speaker 2: over all these years. I think the finality of it, right,

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Speaker 2: This isn't a situation where you know, some some poor

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Speaker 2: decisions led to some bad times and then he recovered

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Speaker 2: from it. This one is there. There's a finality to it.

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Speaker 2: There's a real finality to it that you can't get

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Speaker 2: pass uh to when it's cut short. So I think

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Speaker 2: they're really I think they're really kind of uh curious,

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Speaker 2: uh if you will. Uh they know how good m

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Speaker 2: J was. They they obviously they and then here they

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Speaker 2: will hold on he might have been a version of

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Speaker 2: someone that would be in that stratosphere and they just

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Speaker 2: kind of look look at you, like kidding me, like

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Speaker 2: someone like that he could you know that was that's

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Speaker 2: a that's a that's a huge statement, right and then

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Speaker 2: for that to be like, well, we never found out,

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Speaker 2: we never got the chance to see it, you know.

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Speaker 2: So I think that uh, you know, and I think

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Speaker 2: too just as we look at the death of Kobe

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Speaker 2: over the last few years and the impact that has

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Speaker 2: on the kids and how important Kobe was to them,

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Speaker 2: and how they listened to all the messaging and they

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Speaker 2: want to listen to the interviews and they want to

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Speaker 2: they want to pay attention to the stories of Kobe.

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Speaker 2: I think in a different way, you know, in the

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Speaker 2: situation for Len, I think it still resonates to this day.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's get into your decision making as a coach.

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Speaker 1: As I see it, coaching involves all the three main

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Speaker 1: types of decisions in the moment, spontaneous significant which is

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Speaker 1: more short term, and life shaping which is long term.

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Speaker 1: Explain to me the most important decisions you feel of

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Speaker 1: those three that involve coaching.

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Speaker 2: We as coaches have to balance all three of them, right.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: In a game situation, you're gonna make a lot of

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Speaker 2: quick decisions. They think that it is something that you

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Speaker 2: have to find a way on a daily basis to

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Speaker 2: incorporate that into your daily life as a coach or

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Speaker 2: as a program. We do that a lot on the

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Speaker 2: front side of practices so that we'll uh uh, well,

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Speaker 2: for example, we'll use we'll have a later practice and

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Speaker 2: then we'll have a study whole time for the kids

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Speaker 2: to study. But then we'll have a team meeting. And

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Speaker 2: in those team meetings, yes, you can talk about your

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Speaker 2: day to day and what you need to do. And

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Speaker 2: I think the most important part of that decision making

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Speaker 2: as far as you talk about life skills and the

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Speaker 2: bigger picture, is you want to try to find a

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Speaker 2: way to not just talk at them. We want to

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Speaker 2: talk to them. You want to give them some information

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Speaker 2: that they can actually think about instead of being another

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Speaker 2: adult telling them what to do or you know, the

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Speaker 2: pitfalls of life not easy to do and you because

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Speaker 2: you just want them to kind of zone out, which

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Speaker 2: you know, I think we all understand why eighteen old

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Speaker 2: might do that, especially they had school all day long,

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Speaker 2: and here we are have another lecture about how to

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Speaker 2: live life.

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Speaker 1: Right, Let's now bring in again Chris Spetzler, the executive

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Speaker 1: director of the Decision Education Foundation, a content partner in

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Speaker 1: this podcast series. Chris has been listening to our conversation. Chris,

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Speaker 1: can you can you offer some some comment about that

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Speaker 1: As we're talking about the different types of decisions that

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Speaker 1: coaches face, we mentioned the three Do you think anyone

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Speaker 1: is more important than the other?

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Speaker 4: Well, I thought the distinction there between during the game,

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Speaker 4: you're in it and you want people to be in

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Speaker 4: the zone and they've already trained to do what's right

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Speaker 4: and shouldn't be thinking about it but should be following

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Speaker 4: the plays. And there are some in the moment decisions,

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Speaker 4: but they're at the level of who's out there and

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Speaker 4: what's the system and what's the right strategy in the moment.

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Speaker 4: But then outside of the game day, there's a lot

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Speaker 4: that happens in preparation and you spend time thinking and

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Speaker 4: deciding and figuring out what's the best way to go

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Speaker 4: in so that when you're in the moment, you're on

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Speaker 4: automatic and you're doing it the way that should be done.

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Speaker 1: So not only are they training technically to be in

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Speaker 1: proficient basketball players and tactically, but mentally they're training their

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Speaker 1: brain to think quickly in the moment efficiently. Glenn, how

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Speaker 1: do you integrate into your sessions teaching the brain to

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Speaker 1: be good, to be effective on the moment decisions.

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Speaker 2: Get their mindset right, Get their mind right as far

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Speaker 2: as how they're approaching today, then that decision making can

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Speaker 2: be better.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: So like as we move into the practice time, if

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Speaker 2: they're not if your mind's not right, we're not gonna

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Speaker 2: be able to teach you and get yourself prepped to

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Speaker 2: make sure you're making the proper decisions on the court.

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Speaker 2: We have a saying here of standards over feelings, right,

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Speaker 2: and kids get so caught up in their feelings that

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Speaker 2: sometimes our decision making comor is just a byproduct of that.

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Speaker 2: On the court and off the court, human emotion is

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Speaker 2: going to come into it. So we want our standards

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Speaker 2: to be there. We have to push our feelings aside

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Speaker 2: for a second so they've can concentrate on the job

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Speaker 2: at hand. We're able to get them to think clearly

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Speaker 2: of what their purpose is and their enthusiasm for what

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Speaker 2: they're doing. Then they're much more accepting of some of

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Speaker 2: the decision making decision decisions that they have to make

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Speaker 2: on the court. Uh and in those real moments in

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Speaker 2: real time that they just go into, as Chris mentioned,

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Speaker 2: into just hey, it's in a moment you're making the

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Speaker 2: right decision because you've you've been prepared for this and

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Speaker 2: are not emotional about it.

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Speaker 1: Chris Glenn brings up an interesting point about emotions and

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Speaker 1: in decision of making way often talk about head and heart,

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Speaker 1: But as I understand that that's more related to the

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Speaker 1: significant and life shaping decisions, does that apply as much

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Speaker 1: in the moment decisions. How you balance your head and heart?

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Speaker 4: Well, just the way that the brain works, there's always

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Speaker 4: some level of balance of head and heart that's going on.

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Speaker 4: And by head we mean logic and reasoning, and by

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Speaker 4: heart we mean emotion. And you can't actually make decisions

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Speaker 4: when you don't have emotions because they're associated with your values,

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Speaker 4: it's what you want, So they're always both there and

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Speaker 4: the main thing is to be in a place where

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Speaker 4: you can harness that affect those emotions in order to

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Speaker 4: achieve something that is rationally what you want, and when

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Speaker 4: you are in a good decision state, you can do that,

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Speaker 4: and when you are when you've lost it. I think

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Speaker 4: everybody can see when an athlete is shaken, and it's

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Speaker 4: how do you get back in the zone so that

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Speaker 4: you can perform? And when someone totally loses it. If

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Speaker 4: you're in a rage, you're not in a position to

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Speaker 4: make a well reasoned choice, So how do you get

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Speaker 4: back in the place where you can?

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Speaker 1: So, how do you let's say there's an athlete who's raised,

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Speaker 1: their emotions are out of control, how do they get

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Speaker 1: back into that state where they can be of a

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Speaker 1: recent state.

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Speaker 4: I think it's much easier to see someone that isn't

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Speaker 4: in that state than to recognize it in yourself. And

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Speaker 4: that's typically when the coach pulls the person or they've

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Speaker 4: been ejected from the game, and then they have time

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Speaker 4: to think about it and come back to a place

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Speaker 4: where they're able to function again. If somebody is very

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Speaker 4: capable and they have some of the strategies that go

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Speaker 4: along with let's say mindfulness, and they're able to say okay,

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Speaker 4: so it's not just counting backwards from ten I need

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Speaker 4: to do something a little bit more complex, like multiply

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Speaker 4: by sevens and count that way, right, It's not you

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Speaker 4: got to do something that kicks it upstairs and slows

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Speaker 4: you down so that you can get in your zone.

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Speaker 4: And if we're talking about basketball, there are things that

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Speaker 4: people do that are routines that help them to get

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Speaker 4: that focus. I think that's most clear when they're at

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Speaker 4: the free throw line and people have a couple of

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Speaker 4: bounces that they do and they position themselves and they

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Speaker 4: get that focus and then they execute and they're still

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Speaker 4: uncertainty around it, and you want to get the best

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Speaker 4: percentages you can, but sometimes it just doesn't go in.

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Speaker 4: And I guess when we're talking about life shaping decisions,

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Speaker 4: just to go back to that, those are the things

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Speaker 4: that the students can do off the court that help

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Speaker 4: them to be great players. And so that whole category

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Speaker 4: of what it is that I'm eating and what it

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Speaker 4: is that is my training regimen, and how am I

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Speaker 4: approaching school and how am I approaching my relationships so

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Speaker 4: that when I come to the game, I'm where I

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Speaker 4: want to be and I can be the best player

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Speaker 4: that I can be for my team. And I really

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Speaker 4: like that comment standards over emotions. I thought that that's

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Speaker 4: a wonderful principle in a way of communicating something that's

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Speaker 4: very deep.

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Speaker 1: Let's say a coach pulls a player whose emotions are

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Speaker 1: out a whack and they've got to control them. They've

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Speaker 1: got them on the bench and some maybe an assistant

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Speaker 1: coach is trying to talk the head coach is trying

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Speaker 1: to coach the game. What are some things, Chris, that

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Speaker 1: some tools they can use in that moment to try

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Speaker 1: to get that player to refocus and be more of

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Speaker 1: a recent person.

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Speaker 4: Well, again, I would think that this is the sort

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Speaker 4: of training that you want to work with the players

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Speaker 4: off the court, so that then when they're in that situation,

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Speaker 4: they have something that they can refer back to that

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Speaker 4: they can use in that moment. You know these little

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Speaker 4: snow things with the glass where you shake it up

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Speaker 4: and then it's all over and then it settles down. Well,

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Speaker 4: that's something that people have done to help kids think

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Speaker 4: about their emotions and then they shake them up, and

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Speaker 4: then they want to they want to bring it and

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Speaker 4: have it all settled down and filter out, have them

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Speaker 4: be able to picture a place where they are calm

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Speaker 4: and in the zone or a moment when they had

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Speaker 4: it together and put themselves in that place so that

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Speaker 4: they can recognize that that's not where they are currently.

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Speaker 4: I guess the first thing is to be aware of

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Speaker 4: the situation that you're in and recognize that you need

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Speaker 4: to shift that, and then to have some strategies.

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Speaker 1: Please explain how decision fitness ties into this situation, but

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Speaker 1: not only for in the moment decisions or getting somebody

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Speaker 1: out of that height and emotional moment, but also for

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Speaker 1: the other type of decisions as well.

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Speaker 4: So when we see an individual who has lost it,

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Speaker 4: we know that they are hard to even control or

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Speaker 4: slow down talk to. They're just not with us. And

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Speaker 4: decision fitness is when you are centered. Your decision state

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Speaker 4: is as good as it can be in terms of

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Speaker 4: processing information, in terms of making reason judgments, in terms

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Speaker 4: of being clear on what your values are. And there

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Speaker 4: are plenty of situations where we know that that has

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Speaker 4: been impaired. There was the comment earlier from Glenn that

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Speaker 4: you've got students who often are in situations where they

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Speaker 4: think they're in a good place, but they may not be,

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Speaker 4: and you want to be able to help them to

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Speaker 4: see where they are outside of themselves. And we talk

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Speaker 4: about decision coaching where you help the students. You don't

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Speaker 4: tell them what to do, rather you help them to

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Speaker 4: reach their own conclusions based on reflecting back to them

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Speaker 4: the evidence that you see. And that may be kind

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Speaker 4: of the core thing that a coach brings because they

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Speaker 4: have such a strong relationship with the student or the

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Speaker 4: athlete and there's such a strong level of trust. But

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Speaker 4: as we know, young people are not interested in hearing

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Speaker 4: what an older person wants them to do or what

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Speaker 4: they should they should be doing right. They want to

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Speaker 4: conclude based on their own perspective, based on their own

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Speaker 4: evidence and their own values, what they feel is right

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Speaker 4: for them. And when those two things are aligned, that's

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Speaker 4: very powerful.

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Speaker 1: What are some things you can do to be to

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Speaker 1: train to become a good as part of decision fitness

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Speaker 1: to be a good decision maker.

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Speaker 4: There is a very strong similarity between the decisions in

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Speaker 4: coaching and athletics with the research that's been done in

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Speaker 4: emergencies that situations and intuitive decision making. And for example,

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Speaker 4: firefighters are often in a situation where they react and

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Speaker 4: do the right thing and save themselves when there was

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Speaker 4: information that would be hard to know what exactly caused

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Speaker 4: them to get out of that situation. You know, maybe

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Speaker 4: it was just a sense of feeling they heard something.

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Speaker 4: And so this is the standards versus emotions. There are

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Speaker 4: policies that are created by experts that have analyzed situations

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Speaker 4: that say, in these circumstances, act these ways, and so

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Speaker 4: that's what you do. You decide outside the situation, and

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Speaker 4: then you practice practice, practice. You train so that when

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Speaker 4: you're in that situation you do what's right naturally, but

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Speaker 4: you can't always guarantee the outcome that you want. And

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Speaker 4: so you spend time afterwards looking at the film and saying,

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Speaker 4: you know, if we had this opportunity again, I'd rather

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Speaker 4: you did this. What you did was pretty good, but

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Speaker 4: there was a better alternative, and I'd like you to be.

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Speaker 3: Aware of it.

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Speaker 1: Glenn, Can you try to recall when you've had a

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Speaker 1: player not thinking clearly because of their emotions, take them

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Speaker 1: out of the game. How do you comment down what

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Speaker 1: kind of things have you done?

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Speaker 2: We had a young team, and we had a very

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Speaker 2: emotional team, and we had multiple guys that are like this,

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Speaker 2: and what makes them so good is the emotion, right,

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Speaker 2: I think a couple of things. I think one is

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Speaker 2: we always talk about playing for each other. So when

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Speaker 2: you make yourself accountable be part of something bigger than yourself,

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Speaker 2: you now know that you've got to kind of find

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Speaker 2: a way to get some where you need to because

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Speaker 2: you are emotional and you are in your own head.

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Speaker 2: So how do we get you out. Well, one of

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Speaker 2: the best ways to do it is the teammate, because

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Speaker 2: the teammate knows what you're going through. They're there to

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Speaker 2: support you. They are your brother, and they want to

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Speaker 2: help you get to where we need to. The assistant

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Speaker 2: coach's job is to remind them of the job at hand.

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Speaker 2: So if you can get back to okay, hey, I

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Speaker 2: know you're upset, I know where you're at right now,

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Speaker 2: but let's remind you of what we're trying to get

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Speaker 2: accomplished and what you want to get accomplished as a competitor,

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Speaker 2: not just what's best for the team, but also for yourself.

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Speaker 2: And so I think the best players are the ones

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Speaker 2: that can make that adjustment within the game, within a quarter,

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Speaker 2: within coming out and then maybe going back in, maybe

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Speaker 2: you have time to be able to get themselves to

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Speaker 2: be centered. So I think those are a couple of

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Speaker 2: different mechanisms, and we of course have things that's sayings

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Speaker 2: for the kids. You try to let them know when

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Speaker 2: things are going bad is badly poorly and just yell

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Speaker 2: out and next play, for example, so we all know

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Speaker 2: if I yell at next play a team that yell's

424
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Speaker 2: our next play just says, hey, move on from what

425
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Speaker 2: just happened. Let's get to the next play. Let's not

426
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Speaker 2: be worried about it. Even our best player, the player

427
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Speaker 2: of the year, Doug McDaniel, is a very emotional player

428
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Speaker 2: point guard five to ten. Going to Michigan, and Doug

429
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Speaker 2: plays with such emotion, and you want him to play

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Speaker 2: with emotion. You don't want to take that away from him.

431
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Speaker 2: So when he's in those moments to where he's frustrated

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Speaker 2: because things aren't going the way we want to, I

433
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Speaker 2: think just that communication, Hey, trust us, We're here to

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Speaker 2: help you. We're here to help you get to where

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Speaker 2: you want to. And we had a lot of comeback

436
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Speaker 2: victories this year or fourth quarter performances that were very

437
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Speaker 2: high level. After going through some struggles and frustrations, I

438
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Speaker 2: walked through a lot of scenarios of when here's all

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Speaker 2: the things that could possibly go wrong. Here's what I've

440
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 2: seen in the past. Some of you guys have never

441
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 2: been in playoff experiences. I've had, you know, twenty twenty

442
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 2: five years of them, so I've seen what works and

443
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 2: what doesn't. So I'm not telling you how to live,

444
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 2: but you're going to face somebody's experiences. So uh, being

445
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 2: able to relate to that getting your getting yourself to

446
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 2: a point where I need to make these corrections in

447
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 2: order for my performance to to to definitely elevate and

448
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 2: then help my team win.

449
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 1: Chris, I guess that's a big part of getting that

450
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 1: mind in more of a recent state correct.

451
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, Glenn, I would ask you also, with some

452
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 4: of these athletes, is the best thing just to give

453
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 4: them some space?

454
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 3: Yes?

455
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, Sometimes it just says, hey man, you're all right,

456
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 2: wrap them up right, high five of them. Hey man,

457
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 2: I'm gonna put you back in a couple mints. You know,

458
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 2: you know, get yeah, get get get your get yourself,

459
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 2: get yourself right. Other kids respond in a different way, right,

460
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,360
Speaker 2: You got to know how to push the right buttons

461
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 2: and know who they are. Sometimes, you know, kind of

462
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 2: getting on them a little bit. What are you doing?

463
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: Come on?

464
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 2: We need you. It'll it'll they'll react with their it'll

465
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 2: appeel to the competitive nature of that player, and sometimes

466
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 2: that is what gets them goal because they do have

467
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 2: that chip on their shoulder about being an vetter, and

468
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 2: so sometimes you do kind of look at them and say,

469
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: come on, let's go. You're better than this, like and

470
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 2: it's like, oh yeah. So I do think there's sometimes

471
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 2: where you just leave them alone and let them figure

472
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 2: it out. And then one of my favorite things, I

473
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 2: just look at them like, go are you ready now?

474
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 2: Are you ready now? Because clearly I don't know what

475
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 2: you were doing before, and you can just put in

476
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 2: their emotion and they're like, yeah, coach, I got you now,

477
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:35,880
Speaker 2: or like or they'll look at you like they're still

478
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 2: upset and I'm like, it's.

479
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 1: Not ready yet. Anything you want to add to that, Chris,

480
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: What I.

481
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 4: Heard Glenn say is that when you've got a relationship

482
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 4: with an athlete, you kind of know what it is

483
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 4: that's going to help them to center. And some kids

484
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 4: will be able to do it themselves and you just

485
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 4: want to give them the space and others need some

486
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 4: sort of an active cue that will help them to

487
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 4: remember what it is that works for them to get

488
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 4: them back into their best state for playing r a game.

489
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 2: How many times I referenced, Hey, remember this game, you

490
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 2: did this, you came back, you had a tough time,

491
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 2: and then you turned it around in the second half

492
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 2: or the fourth quarter. You were so instrumental in what

493
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 2: we were doing. And you can see them going, yeah,

494
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 2: I have done this before. I have been here before,

495
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 2: but I can do this.

496
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:30,360
Speaker 1: Let's let's move on to more of the significant life

497
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 1: shaping decisions. Glenn, But what process do you have to

498
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: try to guide these kids and players through decisions that

499
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: are going to be more significant life shaping What college

500
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: colleges to consider, what colleges to choose. How do you

501
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: guide them through that process that long term the decision

502
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 1: making process.

503
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the first thing you actually make sure to

504
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 2: talk to all the kids about is the spotlight. Right

505
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 2: as competitors that a lot of the kids like the spotlight.

506
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 2: So I say you have a choice from the spotlight

507
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 2: to on you. You can use it for good and

508
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 2: it'll shine on you, or when you make more decisions,

509
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 2: it's going to burn you. You're going to be a

510
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 2: high level of basketball player if you're going to be

511
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 2: a college student athlete and have a full ride scholarship

512
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 2: available to you. Uh, there are certain things that you

513
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 2: just can down walk through and may and recover from.

514
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 2: Where other people can make poor decisions and then recover

515
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 2: from them. And then when you do make those decisions

516
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 2: and you do make more decisions that hurt you, how

517
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,640
Speaker 2: is it you recover from them? And how you own

518
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 2: own it?

519
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:24,479
Speaker 3: Right?

520
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 2: How do you own up to it and accept it

521
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 2: and then move on and let's not make excuses about it?

522
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 2: Will off in the reference, especially if a player has

523
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 2: some scholarship offers and have some relationships pready with college coaches. Well, hey,

524
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 2: if you were to play for Jay Wright at Villanova,

525
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 2: would you how do you think that your conduct right now?

526
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 2: How would that fit in? What's what are the things

527
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: you like about do?

528
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: What do you like?

529
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 2: What did you would you like about their culture and

530
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 2: identity that attracted you to them to say, hey, that's

531
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,239
Speaker 2: my dream school, you know, because they're going to say

532
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 2: very positive things about whatever school happens to be, Uh,

533
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 2: what they're interested in, who they're interested in, and then

534
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 2: you walk them back into well how does that work?

535
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 2: Right now? How do you do you feel like you

536
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 2: are living that right now and with some of the

537
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 2: decisions you're making again academically, performance on the court, how

538
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 2: they're acting with their parents, how they're connecting with their coaches,

539
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 2: how coachable they are, their day to day work that

540
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 2: they put in. Here's what's going to take. Do you

541
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 2: think you're on the right path? Do you think you're

542
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 2: making the right decisions on a daily basis? You know

543
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 2: what you're eating, your what your weight training program happens

544
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 2: to be, how much how dedicated and committed you are

545
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 2: on a daily basis to get here. A lot of

546
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 2: kids like to do the sometimes thing right. Sometimes sometimes

547
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 2: I put their work in. Sometimes I work hard, sometimes

548
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 2: I'm in a good mood. Sometimes I can handle this.

549
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 2: And I always say that if you do that, sometimes

550
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: you win, sometimes you lose. And if you want to

551
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 2: be a sometimes player, you're probably not going to make it.

552
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 2: And decision making on a daily basis goes into that,

553
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 2: because at the end of the day, any kid will

554
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: tell you they know what it takes. It's just are

555
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 2: they willing to do what it takes. And that goes

556
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 2: into what we're talking about here is those decisions that

557
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 2: you do make are a reflection of are you willing

558
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 2: It's not that you don't know what needs to be done.

559
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 2: Are you willing to do those things that need to

560
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 2: be done?

561
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: Chris six elements of the decision chain. We're talking about framing, values, reasoning, information, alternatives,

562
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: and commitment. Can you focus on a couple that are

563
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 1: most important or are they all equally important when they're

564
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: picking when they're making these kind of decisions.

565
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 4: You know, he made some great points about a sometimes player, Well,

566
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 4: sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and do you want

567
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 4: to be someone who's consistently winning, Well, then these are

568
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 4: the things that you've got to do. And the kids

569
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 4: know that they've got to do certain things in order

570
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 4: to perform at a certain level. So that's all about

571
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 4: the commitment and follow through if they know what's right.

572
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 4: The other thing also that the idea that a high

573
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 4: school student is very motivated by what's at the next

574
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 4: level and that they're looking up to the college students

575
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 4: and you can see what those individuals who are performing

576
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 4: at the highest level and come back to what it

577
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 4: is that I know to do in order to get

578
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 4: myself to that level.

579
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,959
Speaker 1: And I think it's important. This is a process. If

580
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: you're going to make the most effective decision. You're just

581
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: not going to think about it for a week or

582
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: a month. You're thinking about this, especially these long, these

583
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: life shaping and significant decisions. You're thinking about it over

584
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: time or period of time, and you go through the process.

585
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 1: And as you've mentioned in the past, Chris, it may

586
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: not be a good or a bad decision. You don't

587
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: know yet, but is it an effective decision. You're going

588
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: through the right process because you don't know how it's

589
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: going to turn out. In most cases, right.

590
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 4: You can do everything right and still not achieve the

591
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 4: goal that you have and still not make that team. Now,

592
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 4: you did everything right, You did everything that was in

593
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 4: your power, and you faced an uncertainty and it didn't

594
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 4: go against you. So we make a distinction between the

595
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 4: decision and the outcome. You can make a good decision

596
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 4: and have a bad outcome. Well that's when you dust

597
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 4: yourself off and you go and do the same thing again,

598
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 4: And that takes some curve urge in some guts. If

599
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 4: you make a bad decision and you get a good outcome,

600
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 4: well you got lucky. It was stupid. Don't do it again.

601
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 2: We have a saying in our program, I cannot guarantee

602
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 2: you success if you work hard, but I can guarantee

603
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 2: you failure if you don't. And yeah, and I think

604
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 2: that it just plays into that, right there is like

605
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:21,959
Speaker 2: so many kids get caught up and like, well, I'm

606
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 2: trying to I'm doing this, I'm doing this, I'm doing this,

607
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,479
Speaker 2: and I'm not seeing the immediate results. So why am

608
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 2: I can continue to do this? And it is you

609
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 2: have to continue to want to do this and be

610
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 2: consistent with it, and eventually it does. It does come

611
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 2: around your way.

612
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: And we talked about head and heart, reason, feeling, what

613
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: makes sense, what feels right when you're making these decisions

614
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: about rosters. This is the head heavy, then the heart.

615
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: There's the heart heavy. You're the the head of that process.

616
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a balance. And I think that as you

617
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 2: engage with a player, as you look at it from

618
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 2: just their perspective, you feel for them so much because

619
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 2: it matters so much to them, Right, And I think

620
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 2: I look at every I'm not sure did I make

621
00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 2: the right decision? Like you know, did I did? I know,

622
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: I don't know, But I'm not going to get that

623
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 2: that person is going to look in the humanistic way

624
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 2: of building a roster and looking at your players that

625
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 2: I have all the answers and what I decided was

626
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 2: right because I've done it before. And so head heart,

627
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 2: I think you go back and forth.

628
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: Churse anything you want to add to that. That those

629
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: last comments by Bike Glenn.

630
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 4: What I heard Glenn say was that the hardest thing

631
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 4: that he has is to think about how to do

632
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,719
Speaker 4: right by the individuals when he can't optimize for their values,

633
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 4: but he has to optimize for the whole group. And

634
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 4: he knows that he's going to make some decisions that

635
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 4: weren't the best, but then he's always learned.

636
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 3: And was nobody's fault.

637
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: But because he tried so and they cried them. But

638
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: before that he was tears of Joey.

639
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 2: He was the boy you.

640
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,479
Speaker 3: Wouldn't doubt that he was going to make.

641
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: For our next segment, we will talk with a former

642
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: University of Maryland basketball player who has overcome some profound

643
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: personal challenges and now promotes the importance of making the

644
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: right decisions. Travis Garrison grew up in Suitland, Maryland, just

645
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: outside the eastern border of Washington, d C. His home

646
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: was about ten miles from the neighborhood where Len Bias

647
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: grew up in Landover, Maryland. Garrison was two years old

648
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: when then Bias died. Like Len, he became a top

649
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: high school player and chose to play US college ball

650
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: at the University of Maryland. Travis joined US now, Travis,

651
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: thanks for taking the time.

652
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

653
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: Tell us how Len Bias, if he had any impact

654
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: on you at all as a basketball player, how he

655
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: did so, and how you think of Len Bias related

656
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: to basketball.

657
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 3: It started back when I was in high school and

658
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 3: his mom actually became as spoke at my church when

659
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 3: I was in my senior high school. You know, she

660
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 3: would go around and basically, you know, tell us story

661
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 3: to different churches and boos and to young kids basically

662
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 3: about you know, the decision he made and how I

663
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 3: packed it and impacted so much in her life and

664
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 3: her family's life, and then in the community. You know,

665
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 3: some of the assistant coaches gave me video on mister

666
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 3: Bias and just seeing his game and how good he was,

667
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 3: you know, and not just dad, just how he was,

668
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 3: how his church was that you know, how he was

669
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 3: as a person in his charisma and his character. And

670
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 3: I'm still learning to this day about how big of

671
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 3: an impact it made, not just on the court, but

672
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 3: just in the community Epic University of Maroon, how people

673
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 3: are still affected to this day by that.

674
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: You had a pretty good career at Maryland through your

675
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: junior year in two thousand and five, you were one

676
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: of the leading scorers on the team. Two thousand and six,

677
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: your senior year didn't go as well as maybe you

678
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: would hope, I guess, And that was the year you

679
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: had your first assault charge. Can you tell us what

680
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: happened there and how that impacted your life.

681
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 3: I try to go against the grain and in regardless too.

682
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 3: You know, I wanted people to look at me more

683
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 3: than just a basketball player.

684
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: You know.

685
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 3: I try to be more sociable and hang out with

686
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 3: the student body more, and not just around athletes, because

687
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 3: you know, the athletes kind of had a wrapped in

688
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,479
Speaker 3: the sense of on campus, like you know, we were jocks,

689
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 3: so we was cocky or arrogant, so I was you know,

690
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 3: I just wanted to show people that we were just

691
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 3: regular people. Like so I used to go out my

692
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 3: way sometimes just to be more involved in the student body,

693
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 3: and you know, go to parties and hang out It's interesting.

694
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 3: You know. It's one particular time when I did get

695
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 3: in trouble, we wasn't even spol to be out at

696
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 3: the bars. You know, we got a coach told us

697
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 3: that we weren't allowed at the bars to hang out.

698
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 3: I used to hang out in my room a lot,

699
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 3: and I used to you know, drink a lot in

700
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 3: my room and then I'll go hang out. In this

701
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 3: particular time, you know, I was going through stuff mentally,

702
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,439
Speaker 3: you know, coming off of injury. So I just wanted

703
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 3: to go hang out. And I kind of went down

704
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 3: to the bars and you know, like I normally do,

705
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 3: just kick it with the the student body, and then

706
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 3: I got into an altercation, small altercation with a young

707
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 3: lady at the bar. The altercation invested about one minute,

708
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,959
Speaker 3: then like about one minute, and then you know, I left,

709
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 3: and I thought that was the end of it, and

710
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 3: then things kind of spread out of control. I was

711
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 3: highly intoxicated, but that was no excuse to my actions.

712
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 3: And then, like I said, it just took a world

713
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 3: of his own, and that decision just it had a

714
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 3: ripple effect throughout so much even till this day of

715
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 3: how that one choice affected not just my owner court

716
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 3: of situations, but how things happened off the court as well,

717
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 3: you know, And at that time I was young, I

718
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,760
Speaker 3: didn't understand everything. I thought was just a small incident

719
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 3: that had a big effect not just you know, on

720
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 3: my basketball career, but also as other opportunities that was

721
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 3: presented to me after my his career as well.

722
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: And that must have been a challenging time, I would imagine,

723
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 1: especially with your frame of mind. For clarification purposes, report

724
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: said that you grabbed her and slapped her. Was that accurate?

725
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 3: No, it was not accurate. And and the thing is,

726
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 3: around that time, you know, I was told to not

727
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 3: say anything. It allowed for that story to come out

728
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 3: the way it did, which was I think probably the

729
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 3: worst thing that could happened to me at that time,

730
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 3: you know, because like I said, you know that perception.

731
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 3: You know, first of all, your woman beat her, and

732
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 3: you you you you physically assault women in all kinds

733
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 3: of ways. So that incident didn't happen the way that did,

734
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 3: and it was It's interesting because it came on the papers.

735
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 3: My phone was ringing off the hook off that and

736
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 3: so like, and then the draft was two days after

737
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 3: the court. You know, I thought I was going to

738
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 3: court just to try to hurry up and get it

739
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,919
Speaker 3: over with. But it had an effect on me even

740
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 3: having opportunities with NBA teams. NBA teams stop calling. I'm

741
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 3: even affected some of my overseas opportunities. You know that

742
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 3: I was about to sign a contract for good money overseas. Now,

743
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that I'm innocent in all this because

744
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 3: there was an altercation, but did it go down the

745
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 3: way it was explained and the papers know, But I

746
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 3: did step out of line. I did go a little

747
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 3: too far, and that's what was the effect of it.

748
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 3: You know, First of all, I shouldn't have been down there,

749
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 3: I said, I shouldn't have been as intoxicated as I was.

750
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 3: You know, it was a major learner lesson, and I

751
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 3: still teach on it and talk about it to the

752
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 3: day is now and it's more so. Okay, I can't

753
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 3: go back and change that. But what can I do

754
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 3: now going forward? How can I help other student athletes

755
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 3: or other individuals to uh to think about these choices

756
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 3: before they make them, and how that if you don't,

757
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 3: how that one choice canna have a ripple effect, not

758
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 3: just for tomorrow, next week or next morning twenty years

759
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 3: I shared those stories to try to help other individuals

760
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 3: to really comprehend and see how your actions could be

761
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 3: so detrimental to your future and other opportunities that you

762
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 3: would like to have that you could possibly have if

763
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 3: you didn't make bad choices.

764
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 1: Because there was another assault conviction if I'm correct on

765
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 1: like twenty fifteen, can you clarify what happened there and

766
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: if it was because it was a conviction, not a

767
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: not a charge, so and how was that different, if

768
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: at all, from the first charge first conviction.

769
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 3: We're all friends, so shouldn't even went that far in

770
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 3: regards to going into court. Everything was kind of everything

771
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 3: was handled outside of court, and once they found out

772
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 3: who I was, it was out of everybody's hands at

773
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 3: the time, and they felt as though they wanted to

774
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 3: proceed and push forward because of who I was and

775
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 3: me being a former running player. And I said not

776
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 3: to say that I was innocent, but it got it

777
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 3: blew up a little bit more than it it should have.

778
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,879
Speaker 1: Well, Travis, I think it's fair to say that you're

779
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 1: in a position from experience to talk about some decisions

780
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: that you made that didn't work out too well and

781
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 1: let's segue from that thought to bring in now Chris Spetzler,

782
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: who is the executive director of the Decision Education Foundation.

783
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 1: Chris is an expert in explaining ways to use tools

784
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: that can help you make the right decision. For the

785
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: purposes of our conversation with you, Travis, we're going to

786
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: try to focus on the in the moment decision aspect

787
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: of this.

788
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 4: Listening to you, Travis, it sounds like there are some

789
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 4: real similarities in your experience with the decision that len

790
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 4: Bias made, insofar as I bet that at the time

791
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,879
Speaker 4: that he was making his decision he didn't realize how

792
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 4: big a consequence might have come along with it. And

793
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 4: we talked about decision traps and and that one of

794
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 4: the big things in terms of thinking about our decision

795
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 4: frame is that we don't perceive things that are outside

796
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 4: of our frame.

797
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,959
Speaker 3: I I because of my action and then their action

798
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 3: which wasn't never spoken about in the paper that provoked

799
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 3: my action. I didn't think anything will come of it.

800
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: But I didn't a fair to sight, Travis.

801
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 3: She didn't respond kindly to what you did, so she

802
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 3: pushed from my face, and my reaction was I like

803
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 3: smoothed her ahead, I smooth, I didn't smack her. After

804
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,439
Speaker 3: I left the bar and I went to my room,

805
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 3: I thought that was the end of it. Could that

806
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 3: happened in October. I didn't get charges pressed against me

807
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 3: until January, so I didn't think anything was going to

808
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 3: come of it, and didn't I didn't think anything was

809
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 3: going to come of it years or after I left Maryland.

810
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I would think that that's one of the

811
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 4: things that you're trying to get across to youth, and

812
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 4: that's something that we want with decision an education foundation

813
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 4: is for people.

814
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 3: To be able to have a.

815
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 4: Broader view of how their decisions can have longer term

816
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 4: consequences than what they see in the current situation. The

817
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 4: other thing that I hear going on is we have

818
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 4: a concept called decision fitness, and I think we all

819
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 4: know situations where we are a decision unfit, which includes

820
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 4: when we're just in a rage, we can't think clearly,

821
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 4: we can't be rational. But then with alcohol, we've got

822
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 4: confidence that goes up and self control that goes down

823
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 4: or capacity that goes down. And it sounds to me

824
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 4: like even when you went into this situation, you were

825
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,320
Speaker 4: already in a situation where you were kind of decision unfit.

826
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 3: I definitely wasn't sober minded. I would have handled the

827
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:58,240
Speaker 3: things a lot differently, so that definitely did play a factor.

828
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 3: But I can't as an excuse me a.

829
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 4: Decision culture in this case.

830
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:04,760
Speaker 3: It might even be just a decision. Friend.

831
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 4: Did you have anybody that was with you that that

832
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 4: could have stepped in and helped you to to settle down?

833
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 3: It happened so fast, somebody did step in for so

834
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 3: at times they saw what happened, they already got me

835
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 3: out the door too late.

836
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 4: Well, what I what I also like to hear is

837
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 4: that it sounds like you've you've recognized that this is

838
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 4: something in the past, and you've put it behind you

839
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 4: and you're not letting the sunk costs keep you down.

840
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean it's been challenging because sometimes given my

841
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 3: background regards to basketball and things I'm trying to do now,

842
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 3: it seems to always get brought up because when a

843
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 3: lot of times people don't know you ain't trying to

844
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 3: do business or they trying to get to know you,

845
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 3: they google you. So when they google you, they find

846
00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 3: out things about your past and then they they they

847
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 3: get this preconceived notion. I believe that this is my

848
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 3: calling and this is my purpose. So regardless of you know,

849
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 3: people that don't want to deal with me because of

850
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 3: my past, I can that hinder me or stop me

851
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 3: from going forward in regards to because of that. For example,

852
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 3: I have to teach these younger people that look what's

853
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 3: going on with me, or look what happened with me

854
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 3: because of my past actions.

855
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: Chris, you mentioned a couple of things technically that are

856
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: related to decision making, a frame and decision sunk costs.

857
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 1: Can you elaborate a little bit, so not only Travis,

858
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: but everyone can understand what you mean when he went

859
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: outside his frame and then the sun costs of his actions.

860
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 4: Well, so the decision frame is what's the decision we're

861
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:51,399
Speaker 4: making at the time, and often the decision that we're

862
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 4: making or we think that we're making, isn't the one

863
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 4: that is most consequential. And the sunk cost is when

864
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 4: we continue to do some thing because we've invested in it,

865
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 4: and even when it doesn't make sense to continue. For example,

866
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 4: if we go to a buffet and we're full, we

867
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 4: don't need to eat anymore, but often we'll still go

868
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 4: back and get more just because we want to get

869
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 4: more value. Well, we're not hungry anymore and we should

870
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 4: just sort of walk away. But that's still something that's

871
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 4: kind of difficult for us to resist. And what I

872
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 4: hear in Travis's story with regard to the frame is

873
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 4: that this is something that happened very quickly in the moment,

874
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 4: and he didn't think it was a very big deal.

875
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 4: And lo and behold, it turned out to be a

876
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 4: much bigger deal, not only in the after effects at

877
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 4: that time. But here we are fifteen years later, and

878
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 4: it's still something that it sounds like is dogging him

879
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 4: and he'd like to be able to be through with it.

880
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,240
Speaker 4: But it's also now I think giving him a purpose,

881
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 4: which is a is a good making a good thing

882
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:06,240
Speaker 4: out of something that's difficult.

883
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: Travis, tell us talk to us a bit about the

884
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 1: decision you made to talk about decision making and to

885
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: to use your experiences to try to help people make

886
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 1: better decisions. How did that happen?

887
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 3: First of all, took time. It wasn't It wasn't something

888
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 3: that happened overnight, for sure, because I was more so

889
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 3: upset with myself because I allow myself to get put

890
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 3: in those positions and those situations. I was raised better

891
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 3: than that, but it happened. And then once it happened,

892
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 3: then now you have to deal with the after effects

893
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 3: in regards to the perception and how people perceive you

894
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 3: because of your stuffy. If I didn't play basketball, I

895
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:47,919
Speaker 3: don't think this story or people wouldn't even know about

896
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 3: these things that even happened. Unfortunately, but they did in

897
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 3: some competitive in the sense I don't like losing. So

898
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 3: it's more so like, Okay, I'm not going I'm not

899
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 3: giving up on life because I still have to be

900
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 3: able to have kids and I have obligation to do.

901
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 3: So how can I turn this thing around? How can

902
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,399
Speaker 3: I basically recycle this mess that I've created and made

903
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 3: and turned in some positive? I said, okay, so because

904
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 3: I still deal with a lot of pain, a lot

905
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 3: of pain that I've caused, because there were other people

906
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 3: involved in these situations, And so how can I turn

907
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 3: a bad situation into a positive? So I said, if

908
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 3: I go around and share and I wrote, I wrote

909
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 3: a story, I wrote my stories in the book in books,

910
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 3: and I go around and speak and I and I

911
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 3: share my story with not just athletes, but individuals period.

912
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 3: But I know if I can help at least one

913
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 3: person not make those same choices, it can help them

914
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 3: through our their journey. Now I can share my story

915
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 3: and make them understand like, look, if you make this choice,

916
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 3: these are the probable outcomes of that. This is what

917
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 3: I went through. Trust me, you do I want to

918
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 3: go down this road because these are possible outcomes. There

919
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 3: was a time I couldn't work in certain places or

920
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 3: deal with certain things or opportunities because of my past

921
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 3: and my record. So I'm like, let me tell my stories,

922
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,439
Speaker 3: let me share my experiences instead of let other people

923
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 3: do it for me, and then let me try to

924
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 3: help these young people make better choices in their lives,

925
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 3: for they won't miss out on opportunities like I did.

926
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 3: So I felt I was an obligation for me.

927
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,240
Speaker 1: Chris, can you offer some perspective? It appears that Travis

928
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: have done an oppressive thing that maybe a lot of

929
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: people don't do after they make a decision that didn't

930
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: turn out too well, but he almost seems to be

931
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: embracing it and trying to turn it into a positive.

932
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: How do you put that into perspection, into the perspective

933
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: and the decision making process and how you react to

934
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 1: the outcome of a decision.

935
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 4: Well, so, first of all, we make a distinction between

936
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 4: the quality of the decision at the time that you

937
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 4: make it and the outcome. And people like to say consequences,

938
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 4: but usually consequences are negative. So you can make a

939
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 4: good decision and have a bad outcome. That you can

940
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,720
Speaker 4: make a bad decision and have a good outcome sounds

941
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 4: to me like Travis recognizes that he not only made

942
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,760
Speaker 4: a bad decision, but he had an even worse outcome

943
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 4: than he expected. And you know, it takes some inner

944
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 4: strength to accept the situation and also to make amends

945
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 4: and say you're sorry. And there's always an opportunity to

946
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 4: recognize when you have made a bad decision and you

947
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 4: don't want to repeat it. And in this case, he

948
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 4: is even taking this next step and trying to help

949
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 4: other people avoid having that consequence. So I think that

950
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 4: that's pretty admirable.

951
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: Travis, can you recount any situation where you've talked to

952
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: people about this about decision making.

953
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 3: I've shared my story a number of times to differ

954
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:46,240
Speaker 3: individuals from all walks of life, but people are shocked

955
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 3: at I'm in a mental state that I am in

956
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:53,800
Speaker 3: right now because of the things I've been through, And

957
00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:00,439
Speaker 3: like I said, it took time to prayer, It took

958
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 3: you know, just talking to other individuals that you know,

959
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 3: probably been through not something similar, but just been through

960
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,800
Speaker 3: things in their lives that kind of like help counsel

961
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:13,439
Speaker 3: me through it. And then, like I said, sports helped

962
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 3: me out a lot in regards to me being an

963
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 3: athlete and me happened to compete and never give up,

964
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,320
Speaker 3: Like it helped me like not to give up. It

965
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 3: was times I wanted to give up. That's how bad

966
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:26,399
Speaker 3: it was at times, because it seemed like I could

967
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 3: never get over the hump because people was holding that

968
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 3: over my head. Opportunities I couldn't get because that was

969
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 3: holding over my head. I'm trying to make up for

970
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 3: what I did wrong, but people wouldn't giving me an

971
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,800
Speaker 3: opportunity too. So it was times like what was the

972
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 3: point of still being here? Like what's the point. But

973
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 3: obviously kids, my kids, my daughter for example, that she's

974
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 3: super loving and super caring, and you know, it just

975
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 3: seemed like she knew when I she's young, so it

976
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:51,399
Speaker 3: seemed like she knew when I was down and she's

977
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 3: just give me a hug or Daddy, I love you.

978
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 3: So that helped me to keep pushing forward. She helped

979
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 3: me to keep pushing forward, and I was just like,

980
00:49:58,200 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 3: I just can't give up. I can't quit.

981
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:01,839
Speaker 1: Tell us what you're doing now with your life, how

982
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,280
Speaker 1: you're keeping busy. You've got a You've got a podcast

983
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 1: called go Terrapins.

984
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I have a company I started a couple

985
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 3: of a few years ago called Think First, and I

986
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 3: basically do one on ones. I do group huddles with

987
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,280
Speaker 3: teams and individuals. I talk to parents, I talk to players,

988
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:24,399
Speaker 3: I talk to other individuals. I do life coaching. Also,

989
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,359
Speaker 3: I'm working on the TV series right now that's kind

990
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 3: of catered around the Think First aspect, taking some character

991
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 3: and basically an athlete and basically and described and showing

992
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 3: people their story and what they deal with not just

993
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 3: on the court, but everything that get pulled Adam off

994
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 3: the court. We just partner with a non proper organization

995
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 3: over in Zimbabwe that we saw you going over there

996
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 3: next year and they can have after school program where

997
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 3: they focus on basketball but also talk about life skills

998
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,959
Speaker 3: and character building. We do a food drive. A partner

999
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,760
Speaker 3: with the organization called Food for Thought here based in Maryland.

1000
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, applaud you for coming on this segment and

1001
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 1: being so candid about your experiences, and it's nice to

1002
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 1: hear how you're again using that to have some kind

1003
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: of a positive impact on people. We wish you the best.

1004
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 3: I definitely appreciate you guys, and I appreciate the opportunity

1005
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 3: to be here and everything that you guys are doing.

1006
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thanks a lot.

1007
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 5: This podcast series is based on the book Born Ready

1008
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:27,439
Speaker 5: The Mixed Legacy of Lemby's, published by.

1009
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:28,240
Speaker 2: Go Grady Media.

1010
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 5: The series is produced by Go Graded Media in partnership

1011
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 5: with Octagon Entertainment. This segment was produced by Dave Young

1012
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,720
Speaker 5: Grady and Don Marcus. It was written by Dave Grady

1013
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 5: and edited by Don Marcus. The narrator was Dave Ungrady,

1014
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 5: with additional narration by Jamal Williams. Technical production was provided

1015
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 5: by Octagon Entertainment. Production assistance was produced by Kevin mcnelty,

1016
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 5: Tino Quagliata, Lauren Ross, Georgia Brown, Casey Fair, Jamal Williams,

1017
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:59,280
Speaker 5: Chelsey Mannix, and Enzo al Varenda. Matt dehers Is providing

1018
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 5: the social media assistance. Special thanks to the University of

1019
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 5: Maryland and American University for providing inservice. The Decision Education

1020
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 5: Foundation is a content and promotional partner of this podcast series.

1021
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 5: For more information, go to gogradingmedia dot com. This has

1022
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 5: been a production of go grading Media and the Eighth

1023
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 5: Side Network