Speaker 1: Hi everybody, and welcome to the Renee Substawns podcast in
Speaker 1: Renee Stubs's apartment once again with my with my first
Speaker 1: ever guest to stay in this apartment, actually Petkovich, that's true. Yes,
Speaker 1: well he caught me, and of course Caitlin Thompson, you
Speaker 1: have not slept here. I have not slept here, even
Speaker 1: if even on a drunken night he managed to.
Speaker 2: Go home exercise basically sleep here.
Speaker 1: Your exercise bike is still there, it is, yes, do
Speaker 1: you still use it?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: I did once in a while, once in a blue moon.
Speaker 1: I know we both need to use. Well, I've got
Speaker 1: to get my legs in shape because I'm going skiing
Speaker 1: in a couple of days and I know the first
Speaker 1: run I take, my legs are going to be shaking
Speaker 1: like a mofo.
Speaker 4: Maybe you can take a lesson with Yannick Sinner, but
Speaker 4: just to bring back that moment. And I slept up there,
Speaker 4: which is like stairs, I.
Speaker 1: Have a little len I call it a little mezzanete area.
Speaker 3: Okay, could you call it.
Speaker 2: That a mezzanette. Yeah, that's a neologism to me.
Speaker 1: But I think, but you know, like how I like
Speaker 1: to make up words.
Speaker 2: I think it is a it's like a light.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we were sitting on boxes having pizza.
Speaker 2: What happens up there now? Nothing?
Speaker 1: Well, people sleep up there still when I have friends,
Speaker 1: I have friends coming to stay. My friend Nicole brad
Speaker 1: Key used to play on tour, and her husband Mark
Speaker 1: and their son.
Speaker 2: The problem is three people.
Speaker 3: Three people.
Speaker 1: Well, no, they're staying down the parents are staying downstairs.
Speaker 1: I'm leaving. When I go to Australia, they come here.
Speaker 1: It's amazing how people come and visit me when I'm
Speaker 1: not here, including my sisters a couple of days. I
Speaker 1: don't know. They like to have my apartment by themselves.
Speaker 4: Did you see how bad the New York Giants played yesterday?
Speaker 1: I don't care about the Giants.
Speaker 5: They're so bad that you come to New York. And
Speaker 5: why don't you tell our listeners? For those who follow
Speaker 5: you very closely through your various substack Instagram, various adventures,
Speaker 5: you are basically a part time resident of New York.
Speaker 5: You go to galleries, you she shows, you go to plays.
Speaker 5: But also you're a massive New York Giants fan.
Speaker 4: Well, he doesn't have a choice of Giants fan is
Speaker 4: maybe a stretch a giant.
Speaker 3: No, definitely not.
Speaker 4: But my partner, Jesse, he's very clear about rooting for
Speaker 4: the Giants, the Nicks, and the Mets and nothing else
Speaker 4: is allowed. So I guess by proximity, I'm a giant
Speaker 4: choice the Nicks and a Mets fan, and.
Speaker 1: Well you must be. He must have been out of
Speaker 1: each I.
Speaker 4: Was so I told you that I was really sick.
Speaker 4: I had a fever yesterday. I'm fine again, thank you
Speaker 4: for asking. And I fell asleep yesterday at eight pm,
Speaker 4: and around nine pm, Jesse starts screaming next to me.
Speaker 4: I thought something happened. And the thing that happened was
Speaker 4: that who got got a contract.
Speaker 3: With the metsen years?
Speaker 1: Almost? Was it? Almost seven eight hundred million dollars? Can you, Effie,
Speaker 1: imagine that if we have talked about have we not
Speaker 1: talked about this maybe in our regular life or on
Speaker 1: the pod about how we think? You know, everyone says
Speaker 1: about tennis players and the money they make, and we've
Speaker 1: seen just recently that the highest paid top ten female
Speaker 1: athletes in the world have been three or I think
Speaker 1: four or five of them were tennis players.
Speaker 2: Tennis keeps out of the ten.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like crazy, but a lot of that is
Speaker 1: also prize money, And I'm like, but you earn that
Speaker 1: money like tennis players earn their money. They don't get
Speaker 1: guaranteed fifteen year. I mean because if that happened in tennis,
Speaker 1: Carlos al Karaz and Sina would be getting eight hundred
Speaker 1: million dollars for fifteen years because we know they're going
Speaker 1: to be at the top of the game for at
Speaker 1: least a decade, you know. I mean, whereas one Soto
Speaker 1: could like have a slump year or two or three
Speaker 1: and he's still getting paid what is it ten million?
Speaker 1: What is it a year? Fifteen million? I can't work
Speaker 1: it out for me, Kaitlin to fifteen million, fifty million
Speaker 1: a year? Not on an it's like fifty million a year.
Speaker 1: Can you fucking even imagine that?
Speaker 5: I get that baseball players play a lot of days,
Speaker 5: but I have to say, per like energy burning, moment
Speaker 5: by moment effort. I would love to be a baseball player.
Speaker 5: Teams like you don't have to like you're not you know,
Speaker 5: a tennis player is running almost every single minute of
Speaker 5: the competition.
Speaker 2: A baseball player, you're up like every couple innings.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like maybe you I think baseball is great, and
Speaker 5: I love baseball.
Speaker 2: I actually think it's one of the best sports there is.
Speaker 3: Spoken like a true socialist.
Speaker 2: I guess I have a socialist. My team, the Montreal Expos,
Speaker 2: was not there anymore I know.
Speaker 1: Is that thing is making up word Montreal's One of
Speaker 1: the most famous at Montreal Expos moments is when they
Speaker 1: stole it from the Cubs.
Speaker 2: Yes, it was great.
Speaker 5: We had a great team and had the baseball strike
Speaker 5: of nineteen ninety six that happened, we might have won
Speaker 5: a World Series and then we would have kept our
Speaker 5: team instead of having to sell it to the wash
Speaker 5: And franchise which became the Nationals, which like anyway, I
Speaker 5: think thissball's great, But if you paid me one hundreds
Speaker 5: of million dollars, I'd play forever, yeah for and not
Speaker 5: have to do that much.
Speaker 1: I mean, seriously, I'm not kidding.
Speaker 2: I love this game.
Speaker 1: But if you have a son having play baseball, I mean,
Speaker 1: why would you put your son in football? Like CTE
Speaker 1: The physicality of that game. I was watching the Monday
Speaker 1: night game last night was Kansas City and the LA
Speaker 1: team and the around. It was a great game, but
Speaker 1: it's like every play someone was getting carted off the
Speaker 1: field for something.
Speaker 2: Do you think they should play football without helmets?
Speaker 1: Yes, said I've said this a million times.
Speaker 2: Well, not do open field tackle helmet helmets.
Speaker 1: I think what they should do is what they do
Speaker 1: in rugby. If you want to wear helmet, you have
Speaker 1: to you wear like a leathered you a helmet thing
Speaker 1: around your head. And because I have said this forever,
Speaker 1: if you go back to the old days of the NFL,
Speaker 1: that's all they had. They just had that like leather
Speaker 1: thing around there.
Speaker 2: Also they didn't have a lot of teeth.
Speaker 1: They didn't have a lot of teeth. But it's like
Speaker 1: for me, it's more it's like rugby. Then you start
Speaker 1: to learn how to tackle without using your head right,
Speaker 1: so you use your shoulder, you go to you can
Speaker 1: have you seen a game of rugby? Those guys are
Speaker 1: running at you at full pelt and you are tackling
Speaker 1: them now. I And also when you think about a
Speaker 1: wide receiver going across, like you're not going to spear
Speaker 1: him with your head. Now they've tried to take away spearing, right,
Speaker 1: but it has still happens from time to time just
Speaker 1: because you know that's but if you know that your
Speaker 1: head is not protected. You're not sparing anybody.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now, so for me, what I like about football is
Speaker 2: the athleticism of the running and catching. Yeah, not so
Speaker 2: much the and the throwing and the accuracy human beings.
Speaker 2: So yeah, like I feel you know, I you know,
Speaker 2: I like to throw in a hypothetical. So for me, I
Speaker 2: would watch football again if there were no helplets.
Speaker 1: Honestly, it's a hypothetical I've been saying for years. I think,
Speaker 1: I honestly think if they want to improve people's longevity,
Speaker 1: and they want.
Speaker 2: To improve people's longevity, well, you know.
Speaker 1: They talk about it, or we've improved the helmets. So
Speaker 1: I'm like, just take the helmets away. You'd be dull
Speaker 1: and real quick not to go in with their helmet
Speaker 1: with their head because I don't have a helmet on.
Speaker 2: Anyway. I love that You're New York Transfer anyway.
Speaker 1: Tennis tennis. So Tennis really yelled into the mic.
Speaker 3: Then oh, look at that.
Speaker 1: Look at that.
Speaker 4: I really tried to make a point about tennis. Sometimes
Speaker 4: I bring it too close. Yeah, I always think people
Speaker 4: want to.
Speaker 1: Stop trying to put that little mark in your mouth.
Speaker 1: All right, So let's get to a little bit of tennis.
Speaker 1: Hi everybody. Uh, I'm glad you joined us for tennis talk.
Speaker 1: And we've talked about everything.
Speaker 3: But tennis talk starts at ten minutes.
Speaker 5: I have a segue into tennis, which is speaking of
Speaker 5: how much people get paid. There is wild speculation. First
Speaker 5: of all, Renee u M. Seed an event here in
Speaker 5: New York, the Garden Cup Cup. Oh yeah, Ammina yep,
Speaker 5: Ben Shelton Alcarez Yes, by all accounts, wildly successful.
Speaker 2: Well not all accounts was it wildly successful, But by
Speaker 2: some accounts it was successful because there were a lot
Speaker 2: of seats energy in the space.
Speaker 1: Was I would say it was wildly successful in the
Speaker 1: fact that Madison Square Garden was sold out. And I
Speaker 1: have to tell you when I heard that I was
Speaker 1: getting I was doing the MC job. This was months
Speaker 1: and months ago, and you know I live in New York.
Speaker 1: Did you see any advertising.
Speaker 2: No, they didn't market it at all, which was strange.
Speaker 1: Well I can tell you why.
Speaker 2: And there were still some seats available day for eight dollars.
Speaker 1: I looked online. Yeah, but like we're talking, way way, way, way, way.
Speaker 5: Out, that wasn't I'm happy that tennis was in MSG
Speaker 5: and we had something to talk about.
Speaker 2: So I'm not trying.
Speaker 1: How many members of the USTA membership is there? Take
Speaker 1: your guess, eight hundred thousand. Yes. So they sent out
Speaker 1: an email to all the USTA memberships, okay, and they
Speaker 1: bought the tickets like crazy. So that's how they sold out. Interesting,
Speaker 1: they didn't have to do any advertising because tennis is
Speaker 1: so popular. And this is the conversation I wanted to
Speaker 1: get to today, is that tennis is so wildly popular
Speaker 1: in this country that you know a million people reached
Speaker 1: out to get tickets to this thing. Yeah, like in
Speaker 1: overall and so, and I have to say, like, when
Speaker 1: I got there, I was working with Steve Weisman, he
Speaker 1: was the other MC. I'm like, I said to him.
Speaker 1: I was like, well, how'd they get a good crowd?
Speaker 1: He goes, it's sold out? I go what. So many
Speaker 1: of my friends that live in the city who love
Speaker 1: tennis were like, oh, I didn't even know this was
Speaker 1: happening because literally they did no advertising on it.
Speaker 2: Is that a good thing?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: They sold out?
Speaker 5: Yeah, But is it a good thing that we had
Speaker 5: a major event in the heart of New York City
Speaker 5: and nobody knew about it?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I don't know. You answered that question what you.
Speaker 3: Said on some accounts, what were their accounts? There were friends?
Speaker 5: The friends they were there were like, oh, it's pretty
Speaker 5: low energy. These matches are not very good. There's no
Speaker 5: music or energy to it, which is a production issue,
Speaker 5: and that's a cost. It is a cost, but also
Speaker 5: if you sell it a thing like give people a
Speaker 5: night of entertainment, like I'm not a huge exhibition tennis fan.
Speaker 1: Generally la the elephant out there, baby.
Speaker 5: But I do think like, and truly my attitude about
Speaker 5: this is like, hey, great, start like did I put
Speaker 5: on an event at MSG?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 5: I did not, So I'm not here to be like, oh,
Speaker 5: well they could have done all this stuff better. That's
Speaker 5: had great. Now that we've established that people want to
Speaker 5: see this thing, like, how can we iterate and improve
Speaker 5: it and maybe make the sort of interstitual moments because
Speaker 5: sometimes you get a good exo. I mean, you've played
Speaker 5: tons of exos. I don't know what makes a good exo.
Speaker 4: It's really hard, but I think so what I think
Speaker 4: what you really need to lean into from my experience
Speaker 4: is to have a bit of a different counting system,
Speaker 4: get new people in and out so you keep the
Speaker 4: because it's not the match that counts, right, It's about
Speaker 4: the people that come out, and of course Carlos helps
Speaker 4: because he's just both Ben and Carlos.
Speaker 1: I was fantastic.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the box office players exactly, so that that will
Speaker 4: always work. But I think what the exhibitions I was
Speaker 4: part of that work best were mostly when either it
Speaker 4: was established like the Luxembourg Ladies do it's a prize
Speaker 4: money thing. Who wins wins more money than there is
Speaker 4: a little bit of stakes, and that was like part
Speaker 4: of the advertising is who wins gets a fifty k paycheck, right,
Speaker 4: so then you feel a little bit of a competition
Speaker 4: in it. Yes, that's one thing that works. Or you
Speaker 4: have I have a lot of names and you keep
Speaker 4: changing them out right where you can like exchange oh
Speaker 4: three games Andre Agacy please.
Speaker 1: The problem with that?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Money? Okay, so it costs a lot of money.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I would say, I don't know, I have no idea,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to take a guess and say that
Speaker 1: Carlos probably made a million dollars that night.
Speaker 2: The rumor is it's between one and two million, guaranteed.
Speaker 2: I would say one, You're probably right.
Speaker 1: I know that the takeing the gate was three with
Speaker 1: the crowds. Yeah, you know, and the money.
Speaker 5: And I heard Jess and Ema got one hundred K,
Speaker 5: and I heard Ben got anywhere from two to five.
Speaker 1: Hundred from a couple of different Yeah, I would say
Speaker 1: maybe that was truly being spent at least two million
Speaker 1: dollars on just the players alone and talent. So when
Speaker 1: you think about that, then you've got to pay everyone working,
Speaker 1: including myself. You know, You've got to pay these people
Speaker 1: to come in, You've got to pay for the court
Speaker 1: to be later. Like, it costs a lot of money
Speaker 1: to put an event like that. So I know that
Speaker 1: the sponsorship, they didn't have a lot of sponsorship, but
Speaker 1: I I can they did not have them, No, they
Speaker 1: did not, but I can. They made enough money to
Speaker 1: cover everything. But what I would say is that's great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, which is great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And yes, Ben and Carlos were incredible. Carlos is
Speaker 1: just oh my god, he's just he is. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: Ben did a great job as well. And his game
Speaker 1: is not necessarily like flashy like Carlos' is, because you know,
Speaker 1: he can't rally as easily. But my god, some of
Speaker 1: the shots he hit, and he hit one forehand that
Speaker 1: was so hard. I was like, oh my god. So
Speaker 1: they were fun. The girls not so much. But you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, Emma was trying because she's got a little
Speaker 1: bit more of a like quirky personality. But you know,
Speaker 1: Jess is Jess. She's not really flashy and all that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. But the tennis was really good from
Speaker 1: the two of them. It was very good tennis.
Speaker 3: The thing with them, yeah, I don't know, it's pretty good.
Speaker 4: The thing with them is you need one of the
Speaker 4: players to be an extroverted charisma a type of thing.
Speaker 4: But she's not going to shots or slices through the truth.
Speaker 4: But Sablenka will show up, she will look great in
Speaker 4: her dress, she will demand attention, and she will be
Speaker 4: there and have presence. And I think you need at
Speaker 4: least one of these type of players for these things. Yeah,
Speaker 4: but again, as I said, yeah, yeah, but you think
Speaker 4: Pegula doesn't have a bigger paycheck on her head in
Speaker 4: America than Sablenka.
Speaker 3: Nobody in the States knows who she is, even.
Speaker 4: Though she's number one in the world right even like, okay,
Speaker 4: but we side in the Forbes things that you just mentioned.
Speaker 4: Sablenka Andrew Bakina combined earn less in sponsorship money than
Speaker 4: Emma Raducanu. Yeah, so clearly, you know we know why
Speaker 4: they are not from the States.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, no, and also or England or EU country
Speaker 1: or Big Marsh's attractive and they Soblenka Sablenka is an
Speaker 1: incredible She's from Belarus.
Speaker 3: That's what I mean. That's what I mean.
Speaker 4: You can't tell me that Sablenka costs more than a
Speaker 4: Jess Pagoula in America, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: I think that.
Speaker 1: Would demand it. I would think she would demand she
Speaker 1: wouldn't because she's number one in the world.
Speaker 2: And I don't know.
Speaker 5: I bet she'd be like, oh, dude, you get a
Speaker 5: carbone table and you get the thing like I think
Speaker 5: you could probably just be like, oh yeah, we'll put
Speaker 5: you on the giant screen at a Knicks game. She'd
Speaker 5: be like, yeah, cool. She seems like a good time.
Speaker 2: Charlie. I bet you did it, like, oh, I'll meet
Speaker 2: me at the bar after I'll pour.
Speaker 4: She is very very serious. I talked to her at
Speaker 4: the Ocean Open last year. I interviewed a few times.
Speaker 4: She's super She's very very serious about her off season.
Speaker 3: She takes it very serious.
Speaker 2: I cannot say enough about how thankful I feel as
Speaker 2: a tennis fan, not only because I like her style
Speaker 2: of play, but also just like it is so helpful
Speaker 2: for the game to have a charismatic number one. It
Speaker 2: is so helpful to even if she's from a small market.
Speaker 2: She translates, she's Miami, she's flashy, she's got the Odmar
Speaker 2: Piger watch thing. She's just like, she's fun.
Speaker 3: She has a lot of presents.
Speaker 2: So much presence, and it's uh to me, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't need her to win all the stuff. Part
Speaker 2: of it is is is she gonna Well?
Speaker 1: Actually, part of I love, I actually love when she
Speaker 1: loses because she's especially in finals and she does her
Speaker 1: speeches and she's like, wow, but she's asked this time,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to kick your ass.
Speaker 2: What is just like such a fun spectacle.
Speaker 5: I really like when my athletes are like treating it
Speaker 5: like a game in the sense that they're very serious
Speaker 5: and it's about the process, but also they understand that
Speaker 5: like part of it is also the entertainment factor, and
Speaker 5: like she really delivers on that for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and not all of them do, No, they don't
Speaker 1: but you know, I mean, listen, you can't help your personality, right,
Speaker 1: it's just who you are.
Speaker 4: But for example, that's why Jess and Sablenka when they
Speaker 4: do play, that's an amazing matchup because they, Yes, you
Speaker 4: don't need Tonka.
Speaker 1: Like I said, it comes down to money and who's
Speaker 1: available as well for these things. And it's easier to
Speaker 1: get an American in November to play in America, right.
Speaker 1: And the fact that Carlos I mean, I'm gonna be honest.
Speaker 2: Like playing like another exhibition.
Speaker 1: The fact that he and then he played Charlotte. No,
Speaker 1: he's already done the Charlotte event.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But like I'm like, when is this guy having any
Speaker 1: time off? When is he like he started He's starting
Speaker 1: his preseason this coming week, I asked him his agent.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, apparently, had like two weeks off, didn't
Speaker 1: hit a tennis ball after after Davis Cup. I'm like,
Speaker 1: so when he played Ben he hadn't hit a ball
Speaker 1: in like two weeks.
Speaker 2: I guess he doesn't need.
Speaker 1: So that those were his two those were his weeks off,
Speaker 1: and then coming to play these exos was like him
Speaker 1: getting started for next year. I'm like, fuck you, No, man,
Speaker 1: I tell you if I'm Yenick Sin, I'm sitting back
Speaker 1: there going okay, well I had pretty good preseason. I
Speaker 1: had like two weeks off I didn't do anything, and
Speaker 1: then I went straight into it. I don't know, we'll see.
Speaker 5: Can you guys talk a little bit about just because
Speaker 5: I think it is really interesting to understand the exo
Speaker 5: and like what the formula of it, Like what the
Speaker 5: fun ones you've been involved in. I mean, like everyone
Speaker 5: gives UTS a lot of shit. I know everybody in
Speaker 5: the space.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like stry just won that U tr uts. What
Speaker 1: is a UTR in London?
Speaker 5: UTS is the XO. UTR is the reading system and
Speaker 5: the very easy to confuse. But you know, Patrick gets
Speaker 5: a lot.
Speaker 1: Of not not to be confused with the UTI.
Speaker 5: Noo that that's what I don't want. Only cranberry juice
Speaker 5: can prevent a UTS, oh my god. But it cannot
Speaker 5: prevent a UTS. So I do like actually the UTS
Speaker 5: format because kind of two points. It's like, yes, the
Speaker 5: names are silly.
Speaker 2: I think their graphics could be greatly improved.
Speaker 5: It looks like a you know WWE, like from nineteen
Speaker 5: eighties sort of marketing program.
Speaker 1: The WWE in the eighties was awesome.
Speaker 5: It was pretty cool, but like it's kind of like
Speaker 5: a Reilly and yeah, like I want to watch somebody
Speaker 5: play a tiebreak? Do I want to watch somebody especially
Speaker 5: if their her son and it played three sets, Like Nope,
Speaker 5: But I'm happy to like see somebody try for like
Speaker 5: a ten point hard and see.
Speaker 2: What happens and like maybe try to do go for
Speaker 2: some asis. So I do think that there's something too.
Speaker 5: I don't hate exos as a as a rule, but
Speaker 5: I do think there's like a variation and how good
Speaker 5: they can be.
Speaker 2: And like I said, MSG, I'm glad they had it.
Speaker 3: I'm glad well was so.
Speaker 2: But I would love to see us build on this
Speaker 2: and maybe make it.
Speaker 1: I know that they have one hundred percent certain I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna say it for certainly it's coming back next year,
Speaker 1: but I would say ninety percent certainty that it will
Speaker 1: come back because of the it was so wildly successful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, breaking even in your first years.
Speaker 1: Great. Yeah, and they hadn't played for six or seven years,
Speaker 1: they hadn't had the Garden Cup for like six or
Speaker 1: seven years. I've been a part of it almost every
Speaker 1: year that has been there, whether it be MCing or
Speaker 1: commentating it. But you know what it showed me was,
Speaker 1: first of all, God, how I missed playing tennis tournaments
Speaker 1: in Madison Square Garden. I mean we played the WTA
Speaker 1: finals there for a number year my first couple of
Speaker 1: years I played the WTA finals when I was a bear,
Speaker 1: Bear was at Madison Square Garden and it was unbelievably successful.
Speaker 1: We always had great crowds. Double singles didn't matter. People
Speaker 1: came and they showed up. Because you have to remember,
Speaker 1: we're talking about Madison Square Garden. It is in the
Speaker 1: middle of Manhattan. Do you know how many people live
Speaker 1: in Manhattan.
Speaker 2: That have money easy to get to you on every train.
Speaker 1: One fucking apartment building could fill Madison Square Garden. You
Speaker 1: think about then you've got people coming in from Long Island,
Speaker 1: but it is accessible. It's so easy to get into
Speaker 1: Madison Square Garden.
Speaker 3: And how was the atmosphere when you were I was great?
Speaker 1: It was great. And I mean even the atmosphere, you know,
Speaker 1: when Ben's particular in Ben and Carlos were playing, the
Speaker 1: crowd goes nuts. The atmosphere in there is awesome. So
Speaker 1: I'm like, please, God, can we bring an event back there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 1: The ATP or WT finals one year should be there.
Speaker 1: Clearly you've got to find the sponsorship.
Speaker 3: I get it.
Speaker 1: But surely, surely Bill Ackman was playing in the pro am.
Speaker 1: Of course it was before the event. I mean I
Speaker 1: could buy the fucking w TAO ATP Finals and put
Speaker 1: it on there every year himself.
Speaker 5: Time better spent than him trying to get University of
Speaker 5: Presidents fired for which hunts. So yeah, exactly, see him
Speaker 5: for supporting certain people for president.
Speaker 4: Well, at this rate, the Italians will buy Madison Square
Speaker 4: and then just put an event on by the Italian
Speaker 4: Tennis Federation.
Speaker 1: Let's actually get to that, because let's have it. But
Speaker 1: just to finish, like the thread on this is that
Speaker 1: you know you saw Charlotte also packed, also sold out.
Speaker 1: We are missing more tenors in this country, in the US.
Speaker 1: And you know, when I played in my day, we
Speaker 1: had a number of tournaments here at the end of
Speaker 1: the year, indoors in Philadelphia, at Madison Square Garden in Chicago,
Speaker 1: and we don't have those events. And god, I wish
Speaker 1: we had more events because people are hankering for tennis
Speaker 1: in this.
Speaker 5: Country exactly, And I think what I'm Glad you mentioned that,
Speaker 5: because that was totally my takeaway, which is just like
Speaker 5: with very little.
Speaker 1: Much an email, they send out emails.
Speaker 5: Like imagine what the USTA could be doing on a
Speaker 5: regular basis if they have a utilizing their membership. And
Speaker 5: I think, like, you know, we know that the USTA
Speaker 5: is over subscribed, we know that they probably sell too
Speaker 5: many tickets, so that the thing now just feels like
Speaker 5: it's a total us open us open. Yeah, sorry, And
Speaker 5: I think because of that, like, yeah, there's latent demand here,
Speaker 5: so let's like spread the wealth throughout. I mean Paris
Speaker 5: has two major events, like it has a Master's one thousand,
Speaker 5: and it has a Slam. Like then that's a city
Speaker 5: with less density and.
Speaker 1: It gets sold out every time.
Speaker 5: And every time, and you know, I think that's great.
Speaker 5: Like I want to see like sort of it's it's
Speaker 5: easy to use case studies to sort of say like, okay,
Speaker 5: well this makes the case now for this, and I
Speaker 5: hope that happens to La as we've discussed many times,
Speaker 5: should also have.
Speaker 2: A tennis Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 5: I was actually I was talking with Christy on about
Speaker 5: this on Friday because she was like, you know, it's
Speaker 5: a real shame Chicago doesn't have a tournament because Chicago's
Speaker 5: actually like a pretty big tennis study. And then she
Speaker 5: was like, wait, but the Chicago tennis tournament itself, and
Speaker 5: I was like, actually, yeah, I've talked about this. She
Speaker 5: was like, you don't understand what the tournament in Chicago was, Like, okay, but.
Speaker 4: As an example, so it doesn't have nine am. I
Speaker 4: haven't played at nine am since I was twelve years old.
Speaker 4: That was my match, my main draw match, because their
Speaker 4: lights weren't working, so they had to get in four rounds.
Speaker 2: Of she said. She said there was a curfect. I know,
Speaker 2: we know, you know the owners and you wanted to know.
Speaker 5: No, no, But just to illustrate the point, she said,
Speaker 5: there was a curfew because also it was like pretty
Speaker 5: rough around town and nobody came to this was in
Speaker 5: the south side of shit. Everybody had to get bus
Speaker 5: out of there by a certain time.
Speaker 4: So that just by a bus there wasn't running, and
Speaker 4: so you had to order ubers and then give them
Speaker 4: the invoices that they never paid for. That was one
Speaker 4: and then on the semi final day because strangely enough,
Speaker 4: I want the doubles in that one. Yes, it yeah, no, no,
Speaker 4: I'm not cheating on it with she won with a
Speaker 4: crutch by her side. But on semifinals day, they didn't
Speaker 4: have catering, they didn't have food because they said, oh,
Speaker 4: they told us nobody was going to be here anymore.
Speaker 4: And then we had to order Uber Eats again give
Speaker 4: them the invoice that they never paid for.
Speaker 2: So I'm not sure Chicago really needs time to shoot
Speaker 2: on a tournament. It's just to say it does take
Speaker 2: a lot of planning. It does take a lot of.
Speaker 1: Which is my point in making with them. They didn't
Speaker 1: have a lot of time. This just thrust upon them
Speaker 1: very quickly to have that tournament, and they said, yeah,
Speaker 1: we can do it because they have the facilities. And
Speaker 1: one of the things about having a tennis storrnum is
Speaker 1: you have to have facilities. You have got gotta have
Speaker 1: the you've got to have the lights. You've got to
Speaker 1: have the freedom to have the members say oh yeah,
Speaker 1: we can, okay give up our you know, our club
Speaker 1: for a week. So there's a lot that goes into it.
Speaker 1: You've got to have sponsorship, you've got to have all
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. You've got to be able to
Speaker 1: play for lunches you've got to be able to it's
Speaker 1: you've got to play for the linesmen, you've got to
Speaker 1: play for lines women, and you have to you've got
Speaker 1: to put them up in hotels, and you've.
Speaker 5: Got to advertise the tournament so that people come, which
Speaker 5: is not nothing. You know, maybe this event sure had
Speaker 5: a built in email list to create fandom, but like.
Speaker 2: Not all of them do.
Speaker 5: Like, I'm really curious to see what happens with the
Speaker 5: Dallas Open, which is now like kind of getting an upgrade.
Speaker 5: It's a mentally event in late February. It's an indoor event.
Speaker 5: Obviously they get the male stars. But the reason I
Speaker 5: bring it up is because it exactly to your point,
Speaker 5: was at a private, kind of provincial, nice but provincial club.
Speaker 2: In the middle of like the Dallas suburbs.
Speaker 5: And now they're playing it at the practice stadium for
Speaker 5: the Dallas Cowboys, and it's going to feel real empty
Speaker 5: unless they get a ton of people there, yeah, which
Speaker 5: maybe they will and hopefully it's you know, how much
Speaker 5: I think it's similar to the Miami Open stadium.
Speaker 3: Where they like, oh right, oh okay, that's going.
Speaker 5: So it'll be it'll be interesting to see what happens,
Speaker 5: but I like the idea, like okay, cool, Like we're
Speaker 5: going to make a commitment, we're going to try to
Speaker 5: have this venue for a couple of years, and they're
Speaker 5: advertising it now so that they have.
Speaker 1: You know, because the thing that I feel that's a
Speaker 1: men's of anally, it's a mens of not only.
Speaker 5: So you know, obviously plenty to leave to be desired,
Speaker 5: but like the thing that I feel like as a
Speaker 5: as a spectator is, yes, I want this to be
Speaker 5: like good tennis, and I want to feel like there's
Speaker 5: a thoughtful setup as an experience, but also like I feel.
Speaker 2: Bad when the players show up and there's nobody to
Speaker 2: watch that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course it's like that sucks like WT finals
Speaker 1: in Dallas, I mean in Fort Worth and nobody knew
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 2: They didn't pick the venue until like ten days before.
Speaker 2: I mean I'm sort of exaggerating, but like, yeah, like
Speaker 2: the players deserve, especially for like a finals event.
Speaker 1: Like well guess what in read they know it's still
Speaker 1: coming back.
Speaker 4: Semi finals and finals was sold out. It's a small venue,
Speaker 4: three and a half I think, and those were great,
Speaker 4: but the semis and finals were at least sold out,
Speaker 4: so maybe next year.
Speaker 3: You know the it's not easy. I always give slack.
Speaker 4: Is that how you say? I give slack to first
Speaker 4: year events. That's why Madison Square Garden, the Garden Cup,
Speaker 4: they called it breaking even in the first year is
Speaker 4: an incredible success because usually it takes a few years.
Speaker 4: I mean, just talk to Bob Moran, who has done
Speaker 4: an incredible job with Charles Charleston. It just takes years
Speaker 4: to embed yourself into the community and for people to
Speaker 4: know this part time of year, the tennis is in town.
Speaker 3: Like the Gossip Girls. Do you know the Gossip Girl?
Speaker 3: It was like, why what do you want to don't
Speaker 3: want to go out?
Speaker 4: Tennis players are in town. That's like a line on
Speaker 4: Gossip Girl. And that's the type that that's the thing
Speaker 4: that you want to achieve with an event like this,
Speaker 4: that people of the community are going like, tennis is
Speaker 4: in town.
Speaker 3: This is what we do.
Speaker 4: At least one day of it. I'm taking my family.
Speaker 4: That's why tickets have to be affordable at least some
Speaker 4: of them. That's my credo, some of them. You have
Speaker 4: to be able to take your it's to tennis and
Speaker 4: then for them to see the magic with their own eyes.
Speaker 4: And maybe pick up the record and become a lifelong fan.
Speaker 2: And this is why we need a Commissioner of Tennis.
Speaker 1: That's right, and we have nominated you. Now maybe we.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much.
Speaker 2: Well, it's been a majority of us, yes, yes to
Speaker 2: one exactly. You can't oppose your own nomination against my will.
Speaker 2: I've decided to accept.
Speaker 3: Against my will, I've phenominated.
Speaker 1: Oh it's classic anyway. I just think we need tennis
Speaker 1: in this country more. But it also goes back to
Speaker 1: the conversation we've been having through me thinking that after
Speaker 1: the US Open, tennis needs to stop. The calendar tournaments
Speaker 1: need to stop. As far as the WAATP, I think
Speaker 1: you need to have one twenty five to fifties for
Speaker 1: players outside of so the top fifty, but everybody else.
Speaker 1: I think we need to have some team events and
Speaker 1: some exos and fun and make sure these players are
Speaker 1: making our shit ton of money and but they're not
Speaker 1: having the stress of like winning a tournament or playing
Speaker 1: against people like from the US Open nine. I think
Speaker 1: we have the United Cup. I think we have Hotman Cut,
Speaker 1: we have Davis Cup and Billy jean Kin Cup, and
Speaker 1: you make everything a team event and make everything fun
Speaker 1: for these players, and you take maybe one player I
Speaker 1: think we discussed this last week, but one player from
Speaker 1: the top ten, one player from the top twenty, one
Speaker 1: player from the top thirty, forty and fifty, right, and
Speaker 1: you make a team of that. So it's kind of
Speaker 1: like an NBAWNBA free agency, Like, okay, you get to
Speaker 1: choose somebody in the top ten, you get to choose
Speaker 1: somebody in the top five.
Speaker 2: Is that like World Team Tennis?
Speaker 1: Kind of a little bit like World Team Tennis, and
Speaker 1: you make a team out of it, and then you
Speaker 1: can exchange them in and out your singles and doubles
Speaker 1: and mixed doubles, and you actually have teams.
Speaker 2: A minute for the merchandise, the logos, team hand chicks.
Speaker 1: You know, China is putting a lot of tennis into
Speaker 1: money at the end of the year, so guess what,
Speaker 1: you have a true World Cup, right, So everyone from
Speaker 1: every you know, one person from each top ten, top twenty,
Speaker 1: top thirty has to be picked in a team.
Speaker 2: I love it, and that it could be a parrot's team.
Speaker 1: So everyone in the top fifty is taking care of
Speaker 1: everyone's playing. If you're ranked one, you get x amount
Speaker 1: of money.
Speaker 2: Too, So pragmatically what comes off the schedule.
Speaker 1: Everything, So you kill all of that Asian tournaments. Everyone's like, well,
Speaker 1: but Asian wants to put money, Yeah they can. You
Speaker 1: have a World Cup, you have a true World Cup,
Speaker 1: then you have a you know, a mixed event.
Speaker 2: You have like, well, don't we take it out of Australia.
Speaker 1: Of Madison Square Garden that was one of the sites
Speaker 1: of a World Team Tennis. It was sold out every
Speaker 1: single match.
Speaker 5: I think any economist would like the I think the
Speaker 5: World Cup idea is additive. I think anybody who's looking
Speaker 5: at the tenness economics would say, you're insane to take
Speaker 5: tennis out of Asia. We'd probably should take it out
Speaker 5: of Australia because it's such a small market. So I
Speaker 5: just say, I'm just saying, I'm talking about at the
Speaker 5: end of the year. I know what you're talking about,
Speaker 5: but some thing's got to give. And it's easy for
Speaker 5: you to be like, it's Asia, But it would also
Speaker 5: be easy for somebody to be like January, it's not
Speaker 5: really summer for most of the living hemispheres.
Speaker 1: But that's why it's down there. It's summer.
Speaker 2: But I just but I think you have to I
Speaker 2: think you have to account for your own bias in this.
Speaker 1: It's not a bias Australia. First of all, Australia the
Speaker 1: amount of money. There's no bigger country in the world.
Speaker 1: There's no country in the world that loves sports more.
Speaker 1: That's the intangible amount of money that it makes for Victoria,
Speaker 1: for Australia, for as an industry.
Speaker 2: As a market, it is a tiny, tiny, tiny market.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's so it's in Asia, it's austral The
Speaker 1: tournament is known as the Tournament of Austria by white people.
Speaker 2: I don't think any Asian people are like, oh, yeah.
Speaker 1: It's sponsored by Kia. Like half the sponsorships are Chinese.
Speaker 2: Kias a Korean company.
Speaker 1: Well, but but it's an Asian company.
Speaker 5: My point is, I think if you were to be like,
Speaker 5: I'm comm these are the this is gonna be a
Speaker 5: your feet now that you're the commissioner, I like, and
Speaker 5: you're like, I'm just going. If you're the commissioner and
Speaker 5: you have to kill a part of the tour and
Speaker 5: so much money and so much new play and recreation
Speaker 5: and equipment sales and momentum is coming out of Asia.
Speaker 2: What do you do about that?
Speaker 3: Well, then the World Cup.
Speaker 2: First Chances Commissioner, make it the World Cup.
Speaker 4: That Rene mentioned that had to be. It would have
Speaker 4: to be in Asia then, or you would travel it
Speaker 4: around the world. I can't kill that part, or you
Speaker 4: have That's what I always said. In order to protect
Speaker 4: I don't think it would be feasible, but in order
Speaker 4: to protect protect players health, I just don't think they
Speaker 4: would want to be away from home so much is
Speaker 4: I think you should have all of January February, maybe
Speaker 4: a little bit into March, be in Asia Pacific, start
Speaker 4: at Australia.
Speaker 6: Commissioner has moved well, start start in Australia, starting in Australia,
Speaker 6: Start in Australia, move to China, Asia, China, Japan, then
Speaker 6: go to the Middle East and then go to the States.
Speaker 4: So basically you're staying on the same timeline because what's
Speaker 4: killing players on top of the long schedule is having
Speaker 4: to fly back and forth from one from one time.
Speaker 2: All well, the way it used to go back in
Speaker 2: the new has arrived.
Speaker 1: Early on in my career. It went Australia, Japan, indoors
Speaker 1: in the US right Chicago, Philadelphia, that was the early part,
Speaker 1: so it was winter. It was like April. Sorry, it
Speaker 1: was like February March, and then it was Indian Wells
Speaker 1: and Miami.
Speaker 3: So you went.
Speaker 1: Australia, Asia, US, then you went to Europe for all
Speaker 1: the clay and Wimbledon, et cetera. And then you came
Speaker 1: back to the US and then you either went back
Speaker 1: to Europe or you stayed in the States. There were
Speaker 1: tournaments in both in Europe and in the States, and
Speaker 1: then we finished with Madison Square Garden.
Speaker 5: So we've done this before, but I would like to
Speaker 5: crowdsource an ideal schedule. Somebody asked me and I was like,
Speaker 5: I don't know, Buenos Aires.
Speaker 2: Like I just I wasn't prepared.
Speaker 1: You were just buiased. You want to take everything out
Speaker 1: of Australia and put it in South America. The marketing
Speaker 1: is I.
Speaker 5: Don't want to punish Australia. My beef is not with Australia.
Speaker 5: My beef is more just like with the schedule. It's
Speaker 5: a weird time with the schedule.
Speaker 1: And also it's not when do you propose having an
Speaker 1: Australia in winter?
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's your problem.
Speaker 5: I'm just gonna I think actually like something that that
Speaker 5: is part of a it's as long as it's part
Speaker 5: of a tour.
Speaker 2: It just feels like such an outlier now.
Speaker 1: And also like it's an outlier that people love, dude,
Speaker 1: some people Australian people do. But because we have to
Speaker 1: fucking get up at three in the morning to watch
Speaker 1: any tennis event for the rest of the year, say
Speaker 1: it's about time y'all got up early and had to
Speaker 1: watch us, But they don't.
Speaker 5: And also a lot of the sponsors, yes, Keiah sure,
Speaker 5: but like a lot of the global sponsors don't consider
Speaker 5: Australia big enough market to.
Speaker 1: Develop it, which a little Australia feels differently. They're making
Speaker 1: Australia has done a great job with a with a
Speaker 1: with not a lot. But also you talk about having
Speaker 1: destination ornaments and destination events all the time, in Australia
Speaker 1: is truly a destination. How many europe you know, how
Speaker 1: many Europeans go down to Australia for the Australia It's yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true.
Speaker 4: They always they connect it. Well, that's the thing that Americans. Yeah,
Speaker 4: they go like, oh, we've never been to Australia, let's
Speaker 4: stay there for three four weeks and yes, open or
Speaker 4: United Cup a one part of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So anyway, just to get back to I think
Speaker 1: after the US Open, I think that's the time, you know,
Speaker 1: you pet go bring up Okay, do we just have
Speaker 1: it in Asia? I don't know. You can see, I think,
Speaker 1: sign a five year contract and have a World Cup
Speaker 1: and have all these different events in China where people
Speaker 1: aren't moving around, where they actually getting a place to
Speaker 1: stay in for a month, They're getting paid a lot
Speaker 1: of money.
Speaker 2: I think the reason she's Asia is whatever, because otherwise
Speaker 2: where where do they fit.
Speaker 1: On the schedule. Well, the reason I bring up having
Speaker 1: it in Asia or China in particular is because obviously
Speaker 1: they're willing to put a lot of money in and
Speaker 1: to it. It's it's got you're going to always guarantee
Speaker 1: a big prize money check. Now are the fans gonna
Speaker 1: be there? I don't know. I mean certainly they get
Speaker 1: great fans in Beijing and Shanghai in the big cities,
Speaker 1: and then maybe after four years or five years you
Speaker 1: have a bidding war.
Speaker 5: I actually think if we're gonna go double down on Asia,
Speaker 5: having lived there, I think you go in like February
Speaker 5: into it indoors when it's the Lunar New York fust
Speaker 5: But we're.
Speaker 1: Talking about having this World Cup. I get it without
Speaker 1: the points. You're you're so we're solving for different problems.
Speaker 1: My problem is trying to shorten the season so the
Speaker 1: players don't get injured so much and so they don't
Speaker 1: have to like dread playing a single points meaningful.
Speaker 2: Tournament after all. The yea, I think is your larger point.
Speaker 5: And for me, the way to do that is to
Speaker 5: move You can't kill Asia from the schedule, so move
Speaker 5: it to maybe the like late winter, early spring.
Speaker 1: Well you could do what Picco's saying. You go from
Speaker 1: Australia to Asia and you move everything around at the
Speaker 1: end of the year, and then you take it at
Speaker 1: the end of the year and you go to South
Speaker 1: America or But also you have to remember this, the
Speaker 1: people that put this on after the US Open to
Speaker 1: have a World Cup. That the thing I'm talking about
Speaker 1: a lot of money. It has to be in a
Speaker 1: place that can afford a lot of money. So we're
Speaker 1: talking China, we're talking to it does have to be
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia. In Saudi Arabia, Yeah, well maybe it is.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's where you have the World Cup and you literally,
Speaker 1: you know, if you're number one in the world and
Speaker 1: you play in this, you're getting ten million dollars, you know,
Speaker 1: or fifteen million dollars to come and play it.
Speaker 3: Listen.
Speaker 5: I will gladly do all the cooler merch and marketing
Speaker 5: and storytelling for this.
Speaker 1: I had this conversation actually with Craig Tyley, you know,
Speaker 1: because Craig's always trying to innovate at some stage with tennis,
Speaker 1: and he's always trying to push the envelope a little bit.
Speaker 1: And I said, you know, after the US Open, like,
Speaker 1: let's just nix all the points tournaments, keep the smaller
Speaker 1: ones because for the people outside say the top fifty
Speaker 1: or top seventy five, that they're able to play and
Speaker 1: people are going to be like, well, they're gonna they're
Speaker 1: going to win, they're going to win points and they're
Speaker 1: going to move up, and players inside the top fifty
Speaker 1: aren't because they're not getting points. You work out a
Speaker 1: system of maybe a bonus points schedule. If you win
Speaker 1: against certain people, you get a certain amount. I just
Speaker 1: think there's an opportunity there to take away the pressure
Speaker 1: of playing. And also, these players are playing these exhibitions
Speaker 1: when they've been talking about how fucking tired they are.
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, no, you're playing because you're getting paid
Speaker 1: a lot of money. That's why for free, because it
Speaker 1: doesn't cost you anything. If Carlos loses to Francis, who cares?
Speaker 1: He loses the band?
Speaker 3: Who cares?
Speaker 1: If he loses in a regular tournament, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's on a losing streak.
Speaker 4: That's what we talked about last year, right, where tennis
Speaker 4: is the only sport that kind of functions like a
Speaker 4: little where every team functions like a little company. Tennis
Speaker 4: player being the CEO has to hire his own people,
Speaker 4: pay them, and then make sure he makes a profit
Speaker 4: from what he's to pay for it. So when you
Speaker 4: have an exhibition that pays two million, you can be like,
Speaker 4: are my expenses for this year?
Speaker 3: Covert?
Speaker 4: Now I can go buy myself a cryo cabin in
Speaker 4: my house like Cristiano Ronaldo and sleep and minus ninety degrees.
Speaker 2: That's on.
Speaker 1: No that travels, doesn't he?
Speaker 3: But right, that's what I think. That's what in tennis.
Speaker 4: You don't have the security like who i'ms soo, who
Speaker 4: knows for the next fifteen years. I'm set with seven
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty million dollars. I can make sure is
Speaker 4: e Venezuelan. Oh my god, he's might so much money.
Speaker 1: He bought the country. He can come. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: just crazy money.
Speaker 3: But just you know he can.
Speaker 4: He can allocate a certain number of that money that
Speaker 4: he's that he's going to be paid. And Pullenovak Djokovic
Speaker 4: who always had that. Heinz Or always had this like
Speaker 4: incredible vision of himself when we were seventeen.
Speaker 3: He's my age.
Speaker 4: When we were seventeen, he already was drinking green juices,
Speaker 4: already had a physio with him, and he was paying
Speaker 4: that out of his own pocket. He's from serving investing
Speaker 4: he did. Yeah, he didn't have a federation that was
Speaker 4: backing him. It didn't have big sponsorship money. He just
Speaker 4: had this vision of himself becoming the goat, and he
Speaker 4: managed to do so. But rarely do people ever have that.
Speaker 4: But somebody who earns in the next ten years x
Speaker 4: amount can allocate some of those funds into building themselves
Speaker 4: into the best player that can be, and tennis players can't.
Speaker 4: And that's why we see regularly on the tennis player side,
Speaker 4: people not fulfilling their potential because they have to decide
Speaker 4: make decisions day to day when they lose. Like I
Speaker 4: always give the example when I in my last year
Speaker 4: before I retired, I wanted to make a big splash
Speaker 4: at Indian Wells and Miami. So I traveled with three
Speaker 4: people with a physio, with a fitness coach and my coach,
Speaker 4: and I spent you urge. I had an entourage, and
Speaker 4: I spent ten K because we arrived ten days early
Speaker 4: to Indian Wells to adjust to the time zone, to
Speaker 4: just to the desert. I'd never played well in Indian
Speaker 4: Wells because the ball flew, so I like bought all
Speaker 4: these balls. I brought all these people and a day
Speaker 4: before Indian Wells, I tear my doctor.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's right, I tore my doctor. I had to
Speaker 3: pull out.
Speaker 4: And then they have this rule that you can pull
Speaker 4: out of the tournament and you get the first round
Speaker 4: price hockey right half of it. So I got like
Speaker 4: four and a half thousand. So I was already in
Speaker 4: the minors. So now I was there having to decide
Speaker 4: do I try to get ready for It was a
Speaker 4: small tear. Do I try to get ready for Miami?
Speaker 4: Spend another fifteen k with all these people. I made
Speaker 4: the decision, and I reinjured my adopted three days before
Speaker 4: Miami had to pull out. Didn't get any money there.
Speaker 4: I remember, I was in a minus of twenty five thousand.
Speaker 3: I was okay.
Speaker 4: I had a career of fifteen years behind.
Speaker 1: I was reach already.
Speaker 3: But those are decisions.
Speaker 4: But those are decisions, and I was in the fifteenth
Speaker 4: year of my career, and that was my last year.
Speaker 4: I could make this splash and I had a decent career.
Speaker 4: But there are plenty of players. If I had been eighteen,
Speaker 4: who had just been on a score for one year,
Speaker 4: they would fuck.
Speaker 3: My next five years.
Speaker 4: I couldn't have paid for my coach, but the whole
Speaker 4: entire rest of the season, And that's what tennis players
Speaker 4: have to deal with every day. And so I think
Speaker 4: you have to give them the opportunity to play a
Speaker 4: few exhibitions to have saved money in the pocket, and
Speaker 4: then they can, you know, pay for their teams.
Speaker 1: Et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 5: Or we could socialize and have a union and create
Speaker 5: labor negotiations with mutually agreed upon sever roles and schedules.
Speaker 1: Oh, it seems to me that I'm sitting here with
Speaker 1: both commissioners.
Speaker 2: I'm just the uh, I'm the consigli are.
Speaker 1: That's all I want to, right, that's what you want
Speaker 1: to All right, let's let's finish this pod because we're
Speaker 1: going to do a quick one.
Speaker 2: Can I ask a question?
Speaker 5: We have?
Speaker 3: We have, we have questions, questions.
Speaker 2: Can I just ask a question a quick question?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: For the lay person?
Speaker 5: Yeah, because you mentioned it renee before, and Andrea, I'm
Speaker 5: very curious because you have played so recently and we're
Speaker 5: talking about physically optimizing. Carlos was spending his off season
Speaker 5: doing exos and is now beginning his preseason. We see
Speaker 5: all these photographs of players Dubai wherever.
Speaker 2: Training Miami. What are you trying to do?
Speaker 5: You're trying to reset, You're trying to get strong, You're
Speaker 5: trying to incorporate new things, like what's the what's the
Speaker 5: ideal in your mind preseason or like what's the best
Speaker 5: preseason you ever had?
Speaker 1: And what are you doing?
Speaker 4: So for me, I'm interested to hear what renee is.
Speaker 4: For me, it was roughly five weeks and I would
Speaker 4: focus for the like of course, first at least two
Speaker 4: weeks I think two weeks rest after a season is
Speaker 4: too little. Actually, I later in the year, I would
Speaker 4: try and take three four weeks and that doesn't mean
Speaker 4: three weeks lying in bed not doing anything, but three
Speaker 4: weeks without playing tennis and maybe just focusing on regenerat recovering.
Speaker 1: Getting the tennis back is not hard. It's a physicality, yes, exactly.
Speaker 4: And the problem is you know when you go on vacation,
Speaker 4: you have this dread in your breast because you know
Speaker 4: every in your breast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well every day I have had a dread in
Speaker 1: my breast.
Speaker 2: Well you have this probably better in German, but yeah,
Speaker 2: but you haven't.
Speaker 4: You have a dread inside of you because you know
Speaker 4: in German you have There is no I just made
Speaker 4: this up, but every.
Speaker 3: I'm a writer.
Speaker 2: I was trying. I was trying to give you in Serbian.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4: But every every day that you don't work out will
Speaker 4: make you suffer more for the first day that you
Speaker 4: start working out again.
Speaker 3: So you have this you even when you're not even killed.
Speaker 1: It's just you know, it's dread.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's dread in your breast.
Speaker 1: Podcast you're trying to.
Speaker 3: Recover, but at the same time, you know I haven't. Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm yelling again, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4: Okay, So what I want to say is for me,
Speaker 4: the ideal thing is if you could recover for three
Speaker 4: to four weeks ideally, which is rarely have a possible.
Speaker 4: So let's say three weeks and then two weeks you
Speaker 4: only work on your physicality. You do four or five
Speaker 4: hours a day doing intervals, doing getting back your endurance,
Speaker 4: getting back your strength, just getting really strong. Then you
Speaker 4: start playing tennis. The first week, how I would do it.
Speaker 4: I would just hit balls, cross cords, the most boring
Speaker 4: ship you can. Yeah, you go half an hour cross court,
Speaker 4: half an our cross courd, half an hour done the small.
Speaker 4: Then the next week you would start to do moving
Speaker 4: on the court, a lot of how do you call it,
Speaker 4: side sides, side to sides exactly, across one line exactly
Speaker 4: those things. And then in the last two weeks, and
Speaker 4: that can already be at the tournament.
Speaker 1: Side, you start playing points. Yeah, you stop playing points,
Speaker 1: then you stop playing sets, you stop playing.
Speaker 2: It's a slow build, but it's intentional.
Speaker 1: It's very intentional. It's ingized, it's intentional. Part of it
Speaker 1: is intentional is that you know the same thing, like
Speaker 1: the maximum I ever had off of doing nothing was
Speaker 1: a week like because every day you're like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's going to be hurting. I'm going to hurt so
Speaker 1: much in the first week, so you try and sort
Speaker 1: of doing a little bit of physicality every day, even
Speaker 1: if it's just a ten minute run or something like that,
Speaker 1: just to keep your heart rate up. And then the
Speaker 1: second week, you know, you would get back into definitely
Speaker 1: working out, and then two weeks after that, you know,
Speaker 1: I would start hitting balls again. You don't forget how
Speaker 1: to hit a ball, that's the thing. It's just the
Speaker 1: thing that's hard is that you lose the rust of
Speaker 1: playing points, you know. So the first couple of games
Speaker 1: of every tournament, you know, on Brisbane or wherever you start, Auckland,
Speaker 1: it's just like, well, you know, because you people like,
Speaker 1: what do you mean you forget? You kin'd of forget
Speaker 1: how to construct a point, you know, because it just
Speaker 1: doesn't come as naturally. And then after a week you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I got it. But yeah, so it's just a slow
Speaker 1: build and also you're working on all of your weaknesses
Speaker 1: hopefully in the off season, you know.
Speaker 4: And that's a little bit just to just as an
Speaker 4: addendum there. If you have done big technical thing that
Speaker 4: you have to fix, talking about maybe Coco Gov's forehands
Speaker 4: or Cocoga second serf, whatever it is. Although they changed
Speaker 4: her grip on the surf within middle of the season
Speaker 4: and it worked perfectly well, good for her. But if
Speaker 4: you have something like that, a bigger technical adjustment, I
Speaker 4: think you will have to I had something that I
Speaker 4: did with my forehand. I started playing tennis earlier than
Speaker 4: I would have nominally, so I didn't do only physical stuff.
Speaker 4: I would go out on court for an hour and
Speaker 4: just try to fix that technical thing, because it takes
Speaker 4: roughly ninety days before something is in the subconscious.
Speaker 2: This is why I asked a question, because I knew
Speaker 2: that there was some sort of formula.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I remember one of the best examples of
Speaker 1: that for me was Lee Nah when she won these
Speaker 1: strain and open prior to that in I will never forget.
Speaker 1: I was courtside for her match in New Haven and
Speaker 1: she probably hit twelve to fifteen double faults, and she
Speaker 1: had this little bit of a hitch on her second serve.
Speaker 1: She didn't get a good kicker. She was hitting on
Speaker 1: the right side of the ball, kind of similar to
Speaker 1: Coco To be honest, and people that don't have that
Speaker 1: margin again under the ball hitting the kickserver are always
Speaker 1: going to be under pressure, are going to hit a
Speaker 1: lot of double faults, or they're going to have a
Speaker 1: shitty second serve. And I remember thinking, oh my god,
Speaker 1: if she could have got the serve and she would
Speaker 1: have won this match. I think I don't know if
Speaker 1: it was a semi or final in new Haven. And anyway,
Speaker 1: cut to this stray and open. I'm doing her first
Speaker 1: match and we're at our position for I was working
Speaker 1: for the seven Network. Then we are literally right behind
Speaker 1: the court. On the court, it's one of the best
Speaker 1: views in tennis. And I remember her first serving. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, she's hitting her kickserf her
Speaker 1: ball toss was further behind her she was. It was
Speaker 1: all better, it was all correct, and I was like,
Speaker 1: there's margin. This is good. She's under pressure, she's going
Speaker 1: to make She's going to be able to make her
Speaker 1: second serves. So anyway, she had a couple of little,
Speaker 1: little scary moments in this match. It wasn't that easy. Anyway,
Speaker 1: she wins in two sets. She comes off the court,
Speaker 1: I see her in the hallway and you know Lee
Speaker 1: and I, you know, had we always had a pretty fun,
Speaker 1: good relationship. And I was like, hey, I was like,
Speaker 1: your serf, you're hitting kickserf now and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I almost went back to my old serf because
Speaker 1: she hadn't played a match, yeah, under pressure, And this
Speaker 1: is on Rod Laver Arena. Everybody loves her there, everyone
Speaker 1: knows her. And as you said, it takes ninety days.
Speaker 1: She had had not had ninety days. Yeah, she probably
Speaker 1: had thirty. Yeah, she probably had thirty days. Yeah, she
Speaker 1: maybe had well probably at that stage about thirty days.
Speaker 1: And she said, yeah, I almost went back to my
Speaker 1: old serf. And I literally looked at her and I go, no,
Speaker 1: I go, do not go back to your old serf.
Speaker 1: Stay with this. It is so much better, so much better.
Speaker 1: Sure enough, she won this strown up in that year
Speaker 1: and a lot of coincidence, coincidence I think, not nor
Speaker 1: credit with her German friend and the quarter finals, so
Speaker 1: she beat four and one without giving her any chance.
Speaker 2: Yes, it was me, Yeah, you gave her the confidence.
Speaker 1: Did she double faulted in the quarter.
Speaker 3: She played amazing.
Speaker 4: I went off the match and I said and pressed,
Speaker 4: she's going to win ther Shur and open. Everyone laughed
Speaker 4: at me because she hadn't won a slam.
Speaker 1: She had the French.
Speaker 4: She said, was sorry, I'm I misspoke. That was when
Speaker 4: she was up a set and a break on Kim
Speaker 4: in the final. Yes, because some Chinese person yelled something
Speaker 4: at her. Do you remember this, Yeah, I can't remember
Speaker 4: the exactly she.
Speaker 2: Would have won the Australia.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And everyone was laughing at me because she was
Speaker 4: never even close to winning a major tournament and not
Speaker 4: the first.
Speaker 1: Time she won the French. We just established that.
Speaker 4: And but that was I lost to her when she
Speaker 4: lost in the final to Kim, so that was her
Speaker 4: first final that.
Speaker 2: I need to leave, all right, you have to take
Speaker 2: questions without me, Okay, I will edit out my leaving.
Speaker 1: Please you leave that in so people know why you left.
Speaker 2: Well, have you go judge a very important cookie competition?
Speaker 1: Right, and I talk about the Australia.
Speaker 2: Maybe could They said, calm hungry, I haven't eaten anything,
Speaker 2: so I don't have to cookies.
Speaker 3: Goodbye?
Speaker 2: I love you, Thank you.
Speaker 1: Can you please turn your mic off so you don't interjecting.
Speaker 5: I trust you to answer reader questions about me. We will,
Speaker 5: we will she's the commissioner, so now she has to act, right.
Speaker 1: I turned the mic off. Okay, so bye, Caitlin. You
Speaker 1: don't have to go out slowly. We all know you're
Speaker 1: leaving goodbye anyway. Yeah, so that's I'll never forget that.
Speaker 1: So it's possible to do it.
Speaker 3: It is, but it's exactly that moment that you mentioned.
Speaker 4: Is interesting because if she had maybe lost that match,
Speaker 4: chances are she will go back to the old thing
Speaker 4: and maybe mess up her next the arrest of her year.
Speaker 3: But she went through it, and.
Speaker 1: At that point, it's not like she was like twenty
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. That's like she put in
Speaker 1: not ten thousand hours, like fifty thousand hours at that
Speaker 1: point of hitting a tennis ball the way she was Anyway,
Speaker 1: all right, let's get We only have a couple of questions.
Speaker 1: I did put it out on Blue Sky good Bye.
Speaker 1: We did not put it on Twitter, where I have
Speaker 1: more followers, but I'm trying to get people. Oh god,
Speaker 1: she could have gone out a little bit more gently.
Speaker 1: Usually I put it on Twitter because I have a
Speaker 1: lot more followers. But we're trying to move away from
Speaker 1: X because it's so toxic. One of the things was.
Speaker 1: You can answer this question as well, how, if at all,
Speaker 1: has the off season preseason changed through your time in
Speaker 1: the tennis world.
Speaker 3: So for me, I started and that was from Munata, Hi, Munata.
Speaker 3: So I came on tour.
Speaker 1: When was his name, Larry Larry Stefanki No, Larry.
Speaker 2: Curb.
Speaker 4: You're in theason Larry Larry, Larry, Jerry Larry.
Speaker 1: No, the wt A CEO.
Speaker 3: It'll come to me.
Speaker 1: Larry Scott.
Speaker 4: Larry Scott, thank you. So he had just come through
Speaker 4: with the WTA roadmap. Do you remember this, So he
Speaker 4: had taken off the calendar a lot of tournaments. So
Speaker 4: when I started, the off season was actually great. I
Speaker 4: think it was almost eight weeks. We would have the
Speaker 4: WTA final at the end of October or maybe the
Speaker 4: latest in the first.
Speaker 3: Week of November.
Speaker 4: And obviously when I started on tour, I wasn't qualified
Speaker 4: for the WTA finals, so my season would end mid
Speaker 4: of October, and it was amazing enough time to get
Speaker 4: enough rest and then start the pre season in enough time.
Speaker 4: And then when I retired in the end of my
Speaker 4: career in mid November. Yeah, it was later and later,
Speaker 4: especially with Billy Jing king Cup moving then and I
Speaker 4: always played Billy jing King Cup moving to the second
Speaker 4: week of November.
Speaker 3: I was done mid November. I was over thirty.
Speaker 4: My body was not recovering as quickly anymore, and my.
Speaker 3: Off season shrunk more and more.
Speaker 4: And in the end, I think in my last year,
Speaker 4: I had maybe three weeks of actual good practice or
Speaker 4: nowhere I could practice without just you know, because when
Speaker 4: you're older, every single little injury that you take with you,
Speaker 4: it takes double the time to recover. So I could
Speaker 4: only start a bit later with my off scene. So
Speaker 4: I think that's the biggest difference that in the beginning
Speaker 4: when I started, when I didn't need it because I
Speaker 4: was nineteen and I recovered in a day.
Speaker 3: I had enough time for everything.
Speaker 4: And in the end, especially with the Billy jan Kin
Speaker 4: Cup moving to so late, it was tougher and tougher
Speaker 4: to get everything under which.
Speaker 1: Is why I might comment about having that be after that.
Speaker 3: How was it for use and having the wt.
Speaker 1: Finals after the season. Same same for me. I mean,
Speaker 1: I you know, don't want to brag, but I made
Speaker 1: thirteen WTA finals, so I was playing right until you know,
Speaker 1: I was on tour for twenty two years, so for
Speaker 1: me the same thing. It was like, WTA finals are
Speaker 1: certainly getting later and later and later. Cup, Billy Jing
Speaker 1: King Cup, hadn't I didn't play that late. I think
Speaker 1: I'd retired by the time it started to move to
Speaker 1: that point because we were playing home and away ties then,
Speaker 1: so you know, you were playing at home and away
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and usually the last final or whatever
Speaker 1: it was after the US Open. So yeah, absolutely, it's
Speaker 1: just gotten harder and harder and more and more shit
Speaker 1: on the calendar, and it needs to stop as far
Speaker 1: as I'm concerned. Anyway. That was one question. Another one
Speaker 1: was somebody asked me any coaching talks for you, no name,
Speaker 1: no need to name names. But I'm actually I will
Speaker 1: be helping out Alan Perez in the little doubles stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm going to help her out at the start of
Speaker 1: the year.
Speaker 4: So tell me please, what is the motion picture that
Speaker 4: has a similar Is it also Elan Perez?
Speaker 1: No, that's Amelia Amelia Perez. Oh, okay, that's the movie
Speaker 1: that Caitlin made me watch because I keep.
Speaker 4: Saying to everyone, I really want to watch this movie.
Speaker 4: I want to know what people in tennis are like.
Speaker 4: There's a movie about Alan Peretz.
Speaker 1: You should watch it and let me know, Okay, because
Speaker 1: Caitlin thinks it's the best movie of the year.
Speaker 3: Okay, I think it was. Okay.
Speaker 1: I wasn't really into the singing. It's very unique. It's yes,
Speaker 1: it's a musical slash. It's interesting. Okay, it's it's interesting,
Speaker 1: but not my super cup of tea. But I what
Speaker 1: I would do is because but I couldn't do this
Speaker 1: in the movie theater. I would fast forward through the
Speaker 1: like singing parts because I was like, I'm not going
Speaker 1: it was okay, but you're going into it knowing it's
Speaker 1: a music call music that I know. So I was
Speaker 1: mentally prepared for that, whereas with this one, I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm mentally prepared to see you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, the story is really interesting, you know the
Speaker 1: story behind it, right the person there's a man who
Speaker 1: is literally like a Mexican drug lord and he transitions
Speaker 1: to a woman. Oh, and he escapes out of this
Speaker 1: and then becomes actually a really good person. I'm paraphrasing,
Speaker 1: like crazy, So it's like the whole time. And then
Speaker 1: there's this lawyer, she's a I can't remember her name.
Speaker 1: If Kaitlyn was here, she would know because she's quite
Speaker 1: attractive and she's really Caitlyn's type. But Zoe Zoe Seldana, Yes,
Speaker 1: so I think it's always anyway. She plays a lawyer
Speaker 1: who represents this this man who transitions into and it's yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting. It's interesting. Like at the end, I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: it wasn't bad. I didn't think I was going to
Speaker 1: get through it. But I managed, mainly because I needed
Speaker 1: to talk to Kitlyn. But I love that she's not
Speaker 1: here hearing me. I'm not sit talking. It is interesting.
Speaker 1: I think you would probably I don't know. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to tell you anything. You watch it and just
Speaker 1: let me know, okay. Anyway, So yeah, so that is
Speaker 1: the question. So I will be doing a little bit
Speaker 1: of work with somebody.
Speaker 4: With Ellen, with Ellen, anything on the horizon.
Speaker 1: No, I told you. It's two years since working with
Speaker 1: Serena and I've had two people now, one I will
Speaker 1: not name, but was in the top ten, but they
Speaker 1: went with somebody else, and mainly because they didn't want
Speaker 1: me to be you know, I'm still working for ESPN,
Speaker 1: So it is tough for people because they want you
Speaker 1: twenty four to seven. But also I do say, well,
Speaker 1: Darren Kyhill's doing pretty well and he works for ESPN.
Speaker 1: And you know, Brad Gilbert did pretty well a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago with Coco when he was working for ESPN.
Speaker 1: So it is possible. But that is it I've had.
Speaker 1: And then Ellen, it's just you know, and now there's
Speaker 1: certain men that just literally get a job every two
Speaker 1: weeks and they get fired two weeks later. They hired
Speaker 1: again Sasha Bajans back in the picture with Donna VICKI like,
Speaker 1: you know, like these people just boom, They're just like
Speaker 1: they're like they're like hemorrhoids. They just come back anyway.
Speaker 3: They who love this analogy.
Speaker 1: I love that analogy. Okay, so what about you? Would
Speaker 1: you have a coach? I don't think so.
Speaker 4: I mean, honestly, I'm not gonna say no in maybe
Speaker 4: a few years, but you know, I kind of also
Speaker 4: retired to not have to travel around the tennis schedule.
Speaker 1: And that's what you were working at more than I've
Speaker 1: ever seen you work.
Speaker 4: And also the thing is I think that what you
Speaker 4: and I talked to Boris Becker about it for a
Speaker 4: long time when he started coaching Novak he said five
Speaker 4: years before he couldn't have done it because you need
Speaker 4: to let go of a certain type of ego that
Speaker 4: helped you when you were a tennis player, not only
Speaker 4: helped you, but made you who you are as a
Speaker 4: tennis player. And we all know Boris had a huge
Speaker 4: ego as a tennis player. And he said, just five
Speaker 4: years earlier, had Novak asked him, he would have done it,
Speaker 4: but he would never have been good because because he
Speaker 4: couldn't getto had the ego of a tennis player. And
Speaker 4: then when he did start with Novak, he was much wiser,
Speaker 4: much more mature. He didn't need the accolades of a
Speaker 4: tennis player anymore. He was ready to give himself into
Speaker 4: this in a different way.
Speaker 1: So on that light, which we didn't talk about last week,
Speaker 1: what do you think about Andy Murray?
Speaker 4: Well, that's what that's why we were talking about it. Actually,
Speaker 4: that was it because I asked him. So that's the
Speaker 4: only thing that I have. I think Andy could or
Speaker 4: will be an incredible coach one day. Because if you
Speaker 4: ever hear about well, that's what let me finish for
Speaker 4: a second, because whenever you hear him talk about tennis
Speaker 4: and tactics, and strategy. He has an incredible tennis he guys.
Speaker 3: I talked to him.
Speaker 4: We had the same coach, a German guy for a while.
Speaker 4: I talked to him about it and he had very
Speaker 4: potent to Andy, and I asked him what did you like?
Speaker 3: What didn't you like?
Speaker 4: And the way he talked about it, he had very
Speaker 4: particular needs and desires in the work on the court,
Speaker 4: which made me realize, Oh, he also knows what he
Speaker 4: needs as a tennis player on the court, because some
Speaker 4: players are really good tactically but don't actually.
Speaker 3: Know what to work on court.
Speaker 4: What should I do today, yes, to achieve that tactical intelligence.
Speaker 3: But he had both.
Speaker 4: So I think the only thing that I and it
Speaker 4: comes back to Boris And that's what's the question I
Speaker 4: asked him, was has Andy let go enough of the
Speaker 4: tennis player persona to be there fully for Novak without
Speaker 4: having this own thing in the way, Because I know
Speaker 4: how and I've just finally let go of I'm a
Speaker 4: tennis player.
Speaker 3: Now I say I used to be a tennis player.
Speaker 3: I work in TV. Now I'm a writer.
Speaker 4: But I used to a year ago, I was already
Speaker 4: a year retired. I would still sometimes blurret out I'm
Speaker 4: a tennis player and then had to realize I'm not.
Speaker 4: You know, that's the only thing that is a question mark.
Speaker 1: I think that Andy will be fine. Yeah. I don't
Speaker 1: think the ego part of what will get in his
Speaker 1: way at all. I think that he is so emotional,
Speaker 1: like he's very high emotional intelligence. And I think that
Speaker 1: he also understands Novak's crazy, because let's face it, Andy
Speaker 1: was crazy as well. And I do think like me
Speaker 1: for example, like I can understand somebody who's crazy, and
Speaker 1: I can relate to them and I can empathize with them,
Speaker 1: but I can also help them because I'm like, look,
Speaker 1: it doesn't help you know.
Speaker 2: What I mean?
Speaker 1: And Andy knows that Andy knows. Look, no, Andy knows
Speaker 1: just like him, he needs to release the tension, He
Speaker 1: needs to release the frustration. Like I remember, you know,
Speaker 1: very specifically, during the during the Olympic final, him turning around,
Speaker 1: and I always text you, I'm like, what did he say?
Speaker 3: What did he say?
Speaker 1: Because you speak his language clearly, And I said, and
Speaker 1: somebody wrote me on X and told me what he said,
Speaker 1: because I said, please, somebody out there who speaks Serbia
Speaker 1: and let me know what he said, and he was
Speaker 1: yet he yelled at his box. I've been yelling at
Speaker 1: you for two hours and you haven't told me anything essentially, right,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, if he says that to Andy, Andy's
Speaker 1: going to be like, yeah, I feel you, bro like
Speaker 1: because that's something I would yell out. Yeah, but he
Speaker 1: also understands it's not personal. Yeah, right. And I always say,
Speaker 1: as a as a coach, and I know what I
Speaker 1: was like as a player as well, I don't take
Speaker 1: anything personally from you as a player to me as
Speaker 1: a coach until you make it personal to me, right,
Speaker 1: if you said something personally against me, Like, what do
Speaker 1: you mean, Well, that's that.
Speaker 4: Kind of personal. I've been yelling at you and you
Speaker 4: haven't been telling me anything.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 4: Well, but in some ways they probably have been. He
Speaker 4: just hasn't he'd had the capacity to listen in that moment.
Speaker 1: Either he wasn't listening or he couldn't take it in
Speaker 1: or what they told him didn't work. So he's like,
Speaker 1: in his eyes, he's probably like, you haven't told me
Speaker 1: anything that's helping, yeah, right. I Like, for example, if
Speaker 1: I'll give you a really quick example, like Serena, I've
Speaker 1: told you this story. How you know, she had a
Speaker 1: really tough warm up before the second round of the
Speaker 1: US Open. She came late because the traffic was really bad,
Speaker 1: and you you know, as it happens, you know, you
Speaker 1: get an accident on the freeway coming out and it
Speaker 1: can take thirty minutes from the city or an hour,
Speaker 1: you know, And it took longer than expected, and she
Speaker 1: rushed under the practice court, so she hadn't done her
Speaker 1: proper stretching, and just she was very stressed, right, and
Speaker 1: you know, and of course she's very stressed. This is
Speaker 1: a big tournament for her, big match for her, playing
Speaker 1: against contivate, who at the time was number two player
Speaker 1: in the world, which is crazy. And so she was
Speaker 1: very stressed. And her hitting partner was having a bad
Speaker 1: day as well. He normally hits the ball perfectly for her,
Speaker 1: and he was having a bit of a rough day
Speaker 1: as well because he was probably nervous too, and he
Speaker 1: could probably feel the tension. And she hit one ball
Speaker 1: in the literally in the bottom of the net on purpose,
Speaker 1: and I'm like standing there going, oh my god, like
Speaker 1: this is okay. If I'm really coaching and if I'm
Speaker 1: really going to make a difference here. I need to
Speaker 1: step in here because my old coach used to say
Speaker 1: to me because I used to get the shits in
Speaker 1: practice as well as we all do, especially when you're stressed,
Speaker 1: and he used to say to me grubs. He used
Speaker 1: to call me grubs Ray Ruffles. He'd say, you can't
Speaker 1: win the match, but you're certainly helping yourself lose it.
Speaker 1: You know, you can't win the match in practice, but
Speaker 1: you're helping yourself lose it. And I never forgot that
Speaker 1: because it's so true, because I'm like, yeah, I'm not
Speaker 1: really okay, yeah I'm stressed and all that sort of stuff,
Speaker 1: But do I really need to self sabotage? And the
Speaker 1: really good of really good example of that was on
Speaker 1: Zibur before she played the second to last or the
Speaker 1: second Wimbledon final, when she lost to Vondrosova. She had
Speaker 1: the worst warm up I've ever seen because we could
Speaker 1: see it in the in the no at Wimbledon. You
Speaker 1: know how you have the TVs on, you have you
Speaker 1: have the in feed, right, so we had the camera
Speaker 1: on center court while in our production meeting at ESPN,
Speaker 1: so we could see her warming up. She came onto
Speaker 1: the court in all black and started hitting, and after
Speaker 1: ten minutes somebody from the club came out and said,
Speaker 1: you can't practice in black. Yeah, you have to. At Wimbledon,
Speaker 1: everybody knows you have to play in all white, even practice,
Speaker 1: even the finalists, even on senate court. And so they
Speaker 1: came out and told us. So she had to run
Speaker 1: off the court get change, came back and her warm
Speaker 1: up was terrible. She was missing ball. She was not
Speaker 1: throwing her racket, because you can't do that Wimbledon because
Speaker 1: you get in trouble. But she was just she had
Speaker 1: the shits, she was It was such a bad warm
Speaker 1: up and I was looking at it, and we were
Speaker 1: all looking at it, and we're like, this is bad,
Speaker 1: this is not good. And if I was coaching her
Speaker 1: at that point, I would have literally walked into the
Speaker 1: nat and said we're not hitting anymore, Like we're done.
Speaker 1: I'm going to feed you a couple of balls. Was
Speaker 1: very windy, as it was very windy, but not inside
Speaker 1: sena cord and you're very protected inside. For Drousipa, I
Speaker 1: saw coming from a rangie where it was fifty mile
Speaker 1: an hour wind. Yeah, and she went over to hit
Speaker 1: out there. So she was like ah, fuck it, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go hit it. I don't care. I'm not
Speaker 1: changing because they said you can hit on Sena Cord
Speaker 1: to her final, and she chose to go to a range,
Speaker 1: which was classic because it was the worst warm up,
Speaker 1: but she took it in his stride. She was just like, whatever,
Speaker 1: I'm in the final. I'm happy if I win, great
Speaker 1: if I don't. Whatever. And whereas Arms had a lot
Speaker 1: of pressure on her shoulders to win that tournament and
Speaker 1: she had the worst warm up and that's where you
Speaker 1: as a coach. So that moment with Serena, I'll never
Speaker 1: forget it. I was like, all right, I got I
Speaker 1: gotta be a coach here, and I have it on
Speaker 1: film and I sent it to her because we laugh
Speaker 1: about it now. And I literally walked up to her
Speaker 1: and I stopped her hitting the next ball out of
Speaker 1: her hand, and I got in between her and the
Speaker 1: racket and the ball and I just said to her,
Speaker 1: you one, you cannot win this match. I just told
Speaker 1: her what Ray told me. But you're helping yourself lose it.
Speaker 1: And she goes, yeah, I'm just trying to get a
Speaker 1: good warm up. And he's not moving and he's not
Speaker 1: hitting it in the Bible, and she's just so stressed, right,
Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, but like you know, let's
Speaker 1: not destroy ourselves right now, right, And I can tell you,
Speaker 1: and this is the difference between great and good. She's
Speaker 1: she heard me, and she was so much better in
Speaker 1: that warm up. And then the next time I talked
Speaker 1: to her about something on her return, she looked me
Speaker 1: dead in the eyes and it was like she had
Speaker 1: given me the respect. Also say, I was kind of
Speaker 1: shitty with you back then. I snapped at you, and
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have, but I knew right away that she
Speaker 1: heard me. Now, if she said to me, listen, you're lesbian,
Speaker 1: back off.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But that's what I'm saying about being personal. Right, If
Speaker 1: she said listen, you're what do you? You don't know anything?
Speaker 1: She's attacking If you're attacking me, yeah, that's when, as
Speaker 1: a coach or as a person, you go, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm walking off this court now, as opposed to getting
Speaker 1: stressed because she's stressed. That's what I mean about I
Speaker 1: don't take it personally until you make it personal. That's
Speaker 1: the difference. And I think Andy Novak might say something
Speaker 1: or snap, and Andy will be like, order off a
Speaker 1: duck's back. He'll be like, I get it, man, you
Speaker 1: stressed out. It's good. Now. If he turned around and said, oh,
Speaker 1: you didn't beat me here at this strain open, what
Speaker 1: the fuck do you know? That's making it personal, right,
Speaker 1: So that's what I mean by yeah. So I think
Speaker 1: that Andy will do a great job. So there you
Speaker 1: go that we've answered that question. All right, So last
Speaker 1: question and then we got to wrap this up. Someone said,
Speaker 1: who's your favorite doubles player and who plays the most
Speaker 1: like a classic style good volley or etc.
Speaker 3: You said it.
Speaker 1: I said it last week, Sarah Rani. That was from
Speaker 1: Logan H. Spance. Thanks for the question, I think, Sarah Rani.
Speaker 1: I mean it's not super classics, not like Servant Balie,
Speaker 1: Lisa Raymond, Kara Black Me style, but she certainly tries
Speaker 1: to play doubles. Doubles I think, you know, Aaron Ratliffe
Speaker 1: and Gabby Dobrawski try, they do come into the net,
Speaker 1: they try and do those sorts of things. I think
Speaker 1: Sinne Yakovos definitely at the net as much as possible,
Speaker 1: but she pays from the back. So you know, Taylor
Speaker 1: Taylor Townsend sort of, but she plays on the back
Speaker 1: the only real I mean, Katie McNally, and hey, kudos
Speaker 1: to Katie. She just want to challenge hers. She's coming
Speaker 1: back from a really terrible elbow injury. I think it
Speaker 1: was or I can't remember the injury, but good to
Speaker 1: see her back. She plays a very classic servant's folly style.
Speaker 1: She was the player that I saw player and I thought, oh,
Speaker 1: as like if I was still playing on tour, that
Speaker 1: would be a player that I would like to play with.
Speaker 1: So Katie, nice to see you back, hopefully back inside
Speaker 1: the top one hundred and singles real soon. All right, well,
Speaker 1: I think we've wrapped it up for today. I think
Speaker 1: we have, so thanks for joining us, everybody straight open.
Speaker 1: It's getting closer and close, and.
Speaker 4: I thought we would have nothing to talk about because
Speaker 4: it's the end of the season, but we somehow managed
Speaker 4: to blab her on.
Speaker 1: We blab her on, so thanks, and Caitlin left us early,
Speaker 1: thank god. Anyway, all right, everyone, we'll see you next week.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 2: J JeOS.
Speaker 1: About back
Speaker 2: Conduct,