WEBVTT - Behind the Badge 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:08.160 It became training over the weeks, like, man, we're like 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:11.040 week six or whatever, and we still don't have anybody. 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.560 We're all united in one common goal, and that was 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:24.800 to find out who had caused this horrific crime in Moscow. 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:30.640 This is the Idaho Massacre a production of KAT Studios 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:39.200 and iHeartRadio, Season three, Episode eight, Behind the Badge. I'm 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:42.919 Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KAT Studios with Stephanie Leidecker, 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:49.520 Alison Bankston, and Gabriel Castillo. Founded in nineteen thirty nine, 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:53.800 the Idaho State Police, known as ISP, has stood at 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:56.120 the center of some of the state's biggest and most 0:00:56.160 --> 0:01:00.280 difficult cases. Their mission is clear, to serve, serve, and 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:04.440 protect the lives, property, and constitutional rights of every person 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:10.800 in Idaho. To do this, they bring an arsenal of resources. 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:14.639 State of the art crime labs, critical funding, and cutting 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:18.399 edge equipment. These are the tools that local police departments 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:23.399 often don't have at their disposal. On November thirteenth, twenty 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:26.840 twenty two, these resources were called upon when the Moscow 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:32.080 Police Department faced an unimaginable crisis, the quadruple homicide at 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:36.640 one one two two King Road. Four young lives were 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:42.440 stolen Madison, Mogen Kayli Gonzalvez, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Shapin. 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:48.320 Moscow Police quickly requested backup and ISP stepped in to 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:53.600 provide support, expertise, and manpower. Their mission was urgent to 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:57.520 help identify who could have committed such terrific, unspeakable murders 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:01.720 and to bring answers to a devastated community. One of 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:05.160 the detectives called to the front lines was Detective Hugh Powell, 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:08.280 a thirteen year law enforcement veteran who has seen his 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:13.760 sheriff tough cases, but nothing like this. Today, he joins 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:15.919 us to share what it was really like to work 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:18.280 behind the scenes on one of the most shocking and 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:23.720 closely watched investigations in recent memory. He's joined by kti's 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:26.240 studios producer Alice in Bankston. 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:33.200 Take me back to November thirteenth, twenty twenty two. Where 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:35.200 were you when you got the call about what happened 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:37.280 at eleven twenty two King Rhade. So. 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:40.040 I was actually with my family at the time. We 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.600 were driving home from church when my sergeant, Darren Gilbertson 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.080 got a hold of me and said, hey, we got 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:50.040 a quadruple homicide. Up in Moscow and when can you 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.520 be there? Essentially, so everyone rallied together and we met 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:56.200 up at the office in Lewis And, Idaho, and then 0:02:56.240 --> 0:03:00.400 traveled up to Moscow. And really we had very limited information. 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.359 And up to this point, I in my career, I'd 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.200 never had like a true like who done it homicide. 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:09.800 Usually we have a suspect already in custody or on 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.080 most of our scenes, or we have a good lead 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:14.760 and we're actually like on a man hunt looking for 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:17.720 that person or whatever because we have good witnesses or 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:20.720 things like that. But this one was like, we didn't 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.520 have a witness, we didn't really have any leads yet. 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:26.120 So we got called up there. When we got to 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:29.560 King Road, got all our stuff set up, but they 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:32.080 were still waiting on the search warnge to get approved, 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:34.720 which took a little bit of time, about an hour 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:38.080 or two. The detective that got assigned as primary was 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:41.240 Detective Jeff Talbot for processing the crime scene, and he 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:45.320 assigned me initially to collect some footprints in the snow 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:48.640 and by castings and stuff of that nature, And so 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:50.960 I went and did that, and then when I finished that, 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:54.680 they were just getting done with like the photographs of 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:56.920 the inside the crime scene. That's so that's when I 0:03:56.960 --> 0:03:59.320 went in to assist to collect evidence, and that's when 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.200 I first got a grasp of what truly had happened 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:04.200 inside the house, because up to that point I hadn't 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.400 been inside the house or anything like that. Definitely, I 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:09.600 would have to say one of the worst crime scenes 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:10.400 I've ever seen in. 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:12.760 My life as far as the crime scene goes. Can 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:15.160 you kind of walk me through the layout of the 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:16.920 house and some of the stuff that you guys had 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:18.360 seen when you entered that house. 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:21.040 So it's like three levels. There's like what I would 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:24.120 call like a daylight basement area that faces to the 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:26.800 north and when you walk in, that's where and you 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:29.680 go up the stairs to the living room. There's two 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:33.280 bedrooms down below, and then when you walk upstairs that's 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:36.279 the main living room. I'm in the kitchen, that's where 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.919 Zane and Ethan's bedroom were was on the main floor, 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.360 or so I would call the second floor. And then 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:44.040 when you went up the stairs kind of like Katie 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.960 corner from the kitchen, the stairwell led you up to 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:50.800 where Maddie's and Kaylee's room were. The one thing that 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:54.200 stood out to all of us is how contained most 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:56.880 of the stuff was. Like as far as like blood 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.880 and everything else was in Maddie's room and where Maddie 0:04:59.880 --> 0:05:02.400 and Kayley were, and then also in Zane's room or 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:05.360 Zane and Ethan work. It was fairly well contained in 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:08.360 those two rooms, which was pretty shocking, especially for the 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:11.440 you know how gruesome the crime scene was, so I 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.040 would expect it we would have found more evidence throughout 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:16.640 the house, but it just wasn't the case. It was 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:18.680 very contained in both of those two rooms. 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:21.920 What did that make you think initially about who the 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:24.039 killer could have been? You know, because it doesn't seem 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:26.200 like it was a break in where the killer took 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:28.719 a bunch of stuff. It doesn't seem like he messed 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:30.680 up a lot of things. When you're seeing to kind 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:34.120 of really well contained rooms, what did that suggest to 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:34.720 you right away? 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:37.839 It just appeared like someone knew what they were doing. 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:41.760 Wasn't just this crime of passion where someone just lost 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.279 their mind and just started, you know, killing people. It 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:47.240 was something that would seem to be more methodical and 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:53.719 more thought out. After we finished processing the scene, we've 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:56.680 turned all the evidence over to Moscow Police, department, and 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:58.240 at that point we had a briefing. 0:05:58.640 --> 0:05:59.920 What are some of the first things you guys do 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.320 once you have that initial briefing, and what are those 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:03.200 briefings look like. 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:07.039 Well, that briefing, we listened to the nine one one 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:11.800 call that came in, and then we watched the footage 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:15.919 from the officer's body cam from when he responded to 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:21.120 the scene, and then they just talked about a few 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:24.360 of the detectives from Moscow and Police department, their initial 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:28.200 interviews with people that responded initially, and so they talked 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:30.880 about all those interviews, and then of course we start 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:33.560 getting tips that were coming in. People were calling in 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.640 and stuff because everyone, I wouldn't say everyone, but a 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.839 lot of people knew, like Zana and Ethan, Kaylee and Maddie, 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:41.880 and so it started to get a little overwhelmed. And 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:45.359 we worked with some amazing partners down here with the FBI, 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.559 and so we got ahold of them and started asking 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:50.919 them for their assistance because we knew this thing was 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:53.720 going to probably grow a little bigger than we had 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:54.839 initially imagined. 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:57.800 What is it like to chase down those tips and 0:06:57.839 --> 0:06:59.720 you know, do these initial interviews when you don't know 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:00.800 who it could be. 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.240 Initially, what we were assigned to do is like area canvas. 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.040 So we're just going door to door around the neighborhood, 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:10.160 you know, trying to find if anybody had you know, 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:14.280 security footage, ring camera footage or anything like that, and 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:17.400 start collecting those things and start trying to put stuff together. 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:20.360 It was literally just door to door, just running down 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:22.680 all these tips. Some of them were crazy, you know, 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:25.320 to be honest with you, what were. 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:27.200 Some of the craziest tips that you received? Were there 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:29.440 any that really stood out like, oh, my goodness, there's 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:31.200 no way that this could be true. 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:34.960 We had weird ones about the knife was buried under 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:36.880 a bear in the middle of the field or whatever. 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:38.080 They were under a bear. 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:40.280 They said it was a pack of bears had the 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:42.760 knife or something and it was where it's buried under 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:44.840 a take whatever in the middle of the field. I 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:47.040 remember that coming out. We kind of got a kick 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:50.080 out of that. So craziest tips that you could possibly 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:52.640 think of that people would call in. It was kind 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:55.280 of nuts, but they all had to be looked into, 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:57.760 you know, because once we get that person, you know, 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.240 you don't want to have something like the defense come 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:02.280 out and say we're like, oh, well, this can't be 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:04.400 the person because you guys didn't go follow up with 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:06.480 so and so on this tip. You know, you guys 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:09.040 just blew it off. But that's really the person that 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:10.880 you should be looking at. We just didn't want that 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:12.840 to be able to come back and bite us in 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:14.920 the end, you know, and so we really wanted to 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.040 produce a high quality case where our eyes were dotted 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:20.680 and our teas were crossed. So it was sixteen eighteen 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:23.360 hour days for man. I think it was the first 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:26.080 three weeks. I don't think any of us had a 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.600 day off. And we initially had a lot of suspects 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.160 at first that would you know, check these certain boxes 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:33.920 that we were looking at for one reason or another. 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:36.440 That's like, nope, that's not our person. And so it 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:40.080 became draining over the weeks. You know, It's like, man, 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.800 we're like week six or whatever, and we still don't 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:45.520 have anybody. Some of my partners that we talked to, 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:47.560 there was, you know, a doubt in the back of 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:49.120 our mind. I was like, are we really going to 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:51.079 find this person? You know, are we going to be 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:55.360 able to seek justice for these four kids? 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:58.839 Let's stop here. For a break. We'll be back in 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:09.959 a moment. Idaho State Police Detective Hugh Powell was among 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:12.960 those called to assist with the investigation into the brutal 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:18.640 murders of Madison Mogan, Kayleie Gonzalvez, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin. 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:22.760 The murders happened on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, and 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:27.200 for weeks, Detective Powell and his team painstakingly sifted through 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:31.040 hundreds of tips, leads, and pieces of evidence, each one 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:35.640 raising hopes, only to leave investigators searching for more. As 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:38.560 the days stretched on, a chilling question began to hang 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:44.000 in the air, would this case ever be solved? Then 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:48.079 a breakthrough at the Idaho State Police Crime Lab changed everything, 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:53.920 an unexpected discovery that finally pushed the investigation forward. To 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:57.040 walk us through that turning point, here again is Detective 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:00.880 Hugh Powell, joined by Katie's Studio's producer Bankston. 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:06.280 We found out that our lab down in Boise had 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:10.240 found like a single source mail DNA off the sheet 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:13.640 and so that was exciting. We're like, oh sweet, And 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:15.560 so we were hoping we were going to find someone 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:19.240 fairly early, you know, but not understanding that whole process. 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.240 I mean, it was the first time I've ever worked 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:22.959 a case like this, you know, where you're going to 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:25.319 find out who your suspect is through a DNA source 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:27.600 that you collected at the crime scene. And then in 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.680 December when finally we are in the meeting with my 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.520 sergeant Darren and everybody else FBI all the way down 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:36.440 to the Moscow PD and with ISP and they're like, 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:39.280 this doesn't go anywhere. You don't talk to your wife, 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:41.520 you don't talk to anybody about this, you know, don't 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:43.679 search his name. And they talked to us how they 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:46.440 were able to get to the pointe we're at now 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.120 to where we had a suspect. When the name finally 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:52.400 came up, they're like, well, this Brian Coberger is like 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.640 oh lo, and behold he has this white launtra So 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:56.360 that was a box that it checked, you know. And 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:59.080 then oh, he's a student at WSU that checked a. 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:00.640 Box out right. 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:03.079 I can't imagine how exciting that must have been, just 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:06.080 to seeing all of these little investigative puzzle pieces finally 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:08.360 starting to really fit together, and. 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:10.880 It was like, oh, he was a criminology student, you know, 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.160 and all these things started lining up, like, well, why 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:16.120 was the crime scene so clean? Well, this guy, you know, 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:20.119 this is what he obsessed about criminology and how criminals 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:24.079 reacted to when they committed these crimes, and how they 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.800 almost got you know, away with them, or how they 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:29.560 were able to do these things with you know, leaving 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:31.680 the least amount of evidence behind, you know. So it 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:34.040 was really interesting when all this stuff came out, and 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:36.360 then it was kind of like that Aha. I was like, oh, yeah, 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:38.880 we're ninety nine percent sure this is our guy. So 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:41.440 that was, man, you talk about a weight kind of 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:44.400 off everybody's shoulders, you know, even though we knew we 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:46.160 still had a bunch of more work to do, it 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:49.679 was finally we have someone to concentrate all this effort, 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:54.000 all this manpower, all this knowledge and experience into Now 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:56.679 we get to dig into truly who this guy is. 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:02.880 Once we found out who he was, then I was 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:07.079 assigned to interviewing some of the students there or people 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.640 that he had had contact phone numbers that were in 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:12.080 his phone that we were able to link back to 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:15.400 people in the Moscow Pullman area. 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:21.120 Detective HW Powell conducted dozens of interviews as part of 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:25.560 the Brian Coberger investigation. Many of those conversations have only 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:29.520 recently been made public in the Idaho State Police document release. 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:32.880 We're going to take a closer look at exactly what 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.800 those interviews reveal and what they can tell us about 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:36.240 the case. 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:42.360 One of the reports that you had written that I 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.680 found especially interesting is apparently you had interviewed someone who 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:49.800 said that he talked with Brian Coberger about capitalism or socialism, 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:51.280 you know, vegetarianism. 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:54.679 It was his neighbor where he lived at his apartment, 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:58.079 because his number was in Brian's phone, and so this 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:00.000 is how we were able to track this person down. 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.200 And there was like text messages between the two and 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.000 so I guess him and Brian would chat either in 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:08.840 the parking lot or near their like interests, to their 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:12.400 apartment complex or whatever, and they ended up I wouldn't say, 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:14.800 like befriending each other. I think they were just more 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.480 like acquaintances and they would talk about you know, school 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:21.120 and maybe similar interests and things of that nature. But 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:23.320 it was interesting, you know, we got to learn some 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:26.080 of the things about Brian Coburger and like you know 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:29.600 that yes, he was indeed a vegetarian, which is whatever, 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:31.920 that's no big deal. But then he only ate one 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:34.480 meal a day. And as we started to learn more 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:38.120 about Brian early on, in his early teens or whatever, 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:40.920 he you know, had struggled with his weight and everything else. 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:43.360 So that was kind of interesting to learn. And then 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.120 I think they talked about like where they like to 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:48.760 go hike or run or whatever, and got to learn 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:52.320 some things about Brian and their communications and his kind 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:53.760 of more daily activities. 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:57.199 Did he say anything about his impressions of Brian's personality, 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.800 like saying, oh, he was kind of awkward, he felt off, 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.280 he was weird. Did he say anything like that. 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:05.880 He did kind of say that he was kind of 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.200 I think if it was like introverted. Yeah, they talked 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:11.959 about like to talk about politics, about capitalism, socialism, because 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:15.040 I believe the person his neighbor, he was from Iran, 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:17.400 so that was kind of interesting and that how Brian 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:20.200 Coberger thought partying was a complete waste of time. And 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.000 since you know, Brian was from America, this guy was 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:25.000 from Iran. I think they talked about some of the 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.880 more political issues between the two or the differences. 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.240 There's another report that she did too that I thought 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:33.200 was interesting, where there was the famous pool party that 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:36.760 he attended right before the year started. It apparently you 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.240 would talk to a girl who got trapped in a 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.160 conversation with Brian Coberger, which sounds like an awful place 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:44.440 to be, and he just kept like going on and 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.360 on about personality tests and what they mean, and she 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.880 just didn't know how to get away. Can you tell 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:51.160 me a little bit about that interview? 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.000 And that was interesting with her because when we first 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:57.120 initially contacted her, she had no idea what it was about. 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.120 And then when we asked, let go, do you remember 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:02.320 this person's name? And she's like, well, no, And we 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:05.120 had already interviewed some other people from the pool party, 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:07.360 and so I was just like, well, maybe he had 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:09.240 contacted her at the pool party. So I was like, 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:12.600 do you remember like attending a pool party this last 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.800 summer or late early fall or whatever. And she's like, 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:17.880 oh my gosh, and it's like a light bulb went 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.920 on in her head and she completely was like, I 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.360 remember this guy. He had came up to me and 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:26.120 he wanted to talk about this survey. He wanted me 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:28.160 to answer for him, you know, And she's like, I'm 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:29.920 at a party, I'm with my friends. I don't want 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:33.960 to be talking about this survey of people's personalities or whatever. 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.240 She's like, that's kind of weird, and she's just I'm 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:38.360 here to have a good time, and she kind of yeah, 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:41.280 she felt very awkward around him, and even though she 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:43.960 gave him his phone number so he could send her 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:47.080 the survey or whatever. And then I think he contacted 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:49.200 her later after the party and asked her if she 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:51.760 had had a chance to do that survey, and she 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:54.400 was like, no, I don't. I didn't have a chance, 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:57.560 and I don't intend to, you know, something of that nature. Yeah, 0:15:57.600 --> 0:15:59.400 it was kind of interesting, and that was kind of like, 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:01.360 you know, people at the pool party kind of had 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.600 like the same general ideas like why is this guy 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:06.920 wanting to talk to us about these things at a party? 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:10.200 You know, it's not normal, you know what I mean. So, 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:12.840 and then as we learned more about Brian Koberger, well 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:17.560 he just he wasn't normal. His very awkward communicator and 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.040 definitely was lacking some social cues. 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:23.080 Yeah, right, this one is super interesting to me too. 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.640 The hotel's day back in June and July twenty twenty two, 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:28.600 when he had first kind of came out west with 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.400 his dad to move into college, to move into first 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:33.960 PhD program. They checked into a hotel together. 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:37.000 Yeah, so he did stay at a hotel, and I 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.560 believe his father was the one that initially had made 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:42.320 the reservation, and I think it was close to upon 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:46.040 checkout he noticed that they had overcharged him, and so 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:48.960 he came down and talked to the lady at the 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.840 front desk, and then they were able to work through 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:55.520 fixing his bill and getting it straightened out. And then 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.480 he got angry yet because they just didn't seem to 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:00.760 be able to do anything correctly, at least up to 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:04.639 his standard. I guess the lady's story of the event 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:07.199 was kind of all over the place. She wanted to 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:10.560 talk about that Brian wanted to show his nice collection 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:13.199 to her, you know, and I was talking about, you know, 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:16.560 the sheath, and he had this really nice leather sheath 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:18.760 he wanted to shore. And then he said he was 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:21.720 meeting some girl named Maddie. So it was just kind 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:24.280 of like all these things that she was talking about. 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:27.320 It was apparent that she had read the PC affidavit 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:31.040 for his arrest and then wanted to come and interject herself. 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:35.480 Into the investigation, and not to say that she didn't 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:39.359 have anything relevant to add to the investigation, but you 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:42.440 had to kind of sift through what was maybe fabricated 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:43.280 and what was true. 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.119 Detective Powell was also expected to be called to the 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.840 stand if Brian Coberger's case ever went to trial. In 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:58.160 the spring of twenty twenty five, Coburger's defense team pushed 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:02.119 to have four alternate suspects introduced as part of their strategy. 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:06.080 It was a bold move, one designed to cast doubt 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:13.080 on the States case. Among those four individuals, one stood 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:17.600 out in particular that lead with Someone's Detective Powell himself 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:19.200 had investigated closely. 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.760 So Kaylee's father had called in a tip to us 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.920 actually about you know, some stalkers. Potentially she had called 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:30.840 her dad and said, Hey, there's this guy at Winko 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.560 that was kind of stalking me. And so me and 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:35.800 my partner we were tasked with going to the Winco 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:39.959 Foods and looking at surveillance footage to see if we could, 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.680 you know, find Kaylee coing into that Winko, and we did. 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:47.680 We found Kaylee one evening entering the Winco Foods and 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:51.959 there was two males that were grocery shopping together and 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:53.960 one of the males saw Kaylee out of the corner 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:55.560 of his eye and he started like kind of like 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:57.800 following her through the store, and that we were able 0:18:57.800 --> 0:18:59.919 to identify the person, and he kind of followed her 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:02.800 almost out to her car in the parking lot, but 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:05.359 then it looked like he got nervous and walked away 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:07.320 and walked back into the store. So we were able 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:09.399 to pull like his debit and credit card, so he 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:11.320 got his name, and then we were able to run 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:13.320 that through the university and are like, oh, this is 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:15.080 the student. So we were able to track him down 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:17.960 and do an interview with him, and he was wanting 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:20.360 to ask Kaylee out on a date and he got nervous, 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.040 but he had actually done it to a couple girls 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:26.280 that evening because we kept watching him through the surveillance 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:29.280 footage in the store. Anyways, we got a bugle swab 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:32.159 from him and everything else, collected his DNA and nothing 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:34.800 came of it. But for some reason or another, the 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:38.280 defense wanted to say, well, this is your suspect, this 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:40.440 is the one who did it. So then they came 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:42.520 and told me, you're like, this is probably what you're 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:44.800 going to be testifying to at the trial, you know, 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:48.040 so you need to prepare yourself about your interviews you 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:49.800 did with this individual. 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:51.920 Right, Yeah. I remember when that was all going on, 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:55.119 when the defense had, you know, submitted four alternative suspects, 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:57.560 and then the judge, I think he said they couldn't 0:19:57.560 --> 0:19:59.840 even be brought up at trial because the evidence just 0:19:59.920 --> 0:20:02.520 was really wasn't there are you know, no DNA. 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:05.520 Yep, yep. So that's what I was kind of preparing for. 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:08.120 But then when it came out, it's like, yeah, that's 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:10.600 we don't have anything. The judge wasn't going to allow 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:13.520 them to be named as suspects. So I think that 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:16.359 was like the defense is kind of like last straw. 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:18.520 They're like, oh man, we don't have any suspects. 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:24.159 You know, let's stop here for a break. We'll be 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:35.800